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GvacNoMore

02-16-2002, 07:29 AM

CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows......

> 1. Ford- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee
contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to
displaced government employees.

> 2. GM- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions
> of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.
>
> 3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims
> of the Sept. 11 attack.
>
> 4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the
> New York Police Dept.
>
> 5. Volkswagen- Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation,
> funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and
> victims of the WTC.
>
> 6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.
>
> 7. Audi- Nothing.
>
> 8. BMW- Nothing.
>
> 9. Daewoo- Nothing.
>
> 10. Fiat- Nothing.
>
> 11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in
> August 2001.
>
> 12. Isuzu- Nothing.
>
> 13. Mitsubishi- Nothing.
>
> 14. Nissan- Nothing.
>
> 15. Porsche- Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche
> website.
>
> 16. Subaru- Nothing.
>
> 17. Suzuki- Nothing.
>
> 18. Toyota- Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration
> to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company.

Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States. It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention.

<img src="http://gvac.50megs.com/images/ripwaylon.jpg">

mrbungle

02-16-2002, 07:36 AM

Are you shocked by any of this? For years our economy has suffered because we're generally too much of pussies to stop buying shit from countries that WON'T SELL OUR SHIT! Remember next time you're buying a stereo that Asia gets richer.

Mind you, I drive a Honda, but at least I didn't pay for it.

It's not funny, my ass is on fire...

Poison Ivy

02-16-2002, 07:39 AM

I am a proud owner (Well, ok leaser..but I owned my first one :p) of a Chevy Cavalier. This is my second car and second Cavalier. I don't think I would ever want anything else but an American made car.

One question though...what about Mercedes? I didn't see them on the list.

<img src=http://spirit515.50megs.com/ivysig.jpg width="300" height="100"> <marquee> Oh my god, like there goes another lemming</marquee>

FUNKMAN

02-16-2002, 07:49 AM

Gvac,

I have driven Ford products for the last 13 years...
To me it all gets really convoluted(wish we had spell check)
I buy alot of Sony products and I know there is a large Sony facility in Secaucus which employs Americans... I am sure there are many foreign countries with Businesses in the US and they employ many Americans...
Then on the other hand, the US has many businesses that take their manufacturing to foreign countries for the cheap labor, in essence screwing the US worker to satisfy the shareholder...
I just wish I could understand the whole picture a little better, when will corporations and shareholders take the quality of life of an American over the high profits? How much profit is enough, Bill Gates alone was worth 70 billion, that's just him, not including all the other exec's.
CEO's of US Corporations make too much money, they don't own the company, they work for it like everyone else... His 6 extra years of school does not justify his salary in comparison to others who contribute to the companies success...
From what I've heard, Japan executives pay themselves much less...
Let me know what you think...

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">
"When people try to hand you something, don't take it, don't take it"

This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 2-16-02 @ 12:04 PM

02-16-2002, 08:05 AM

This only goes to show how great the USA is!Yes we may have great alie, but what other country would do something like this?

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THANKS A MILLION WWFALLON

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***HUGS & KISSES TO INGRRRL***

IkeaBoy

02-16-2002, 08:10 AM

But Russian male order brides are so much cheaper than trying to get an American to marry you, and they don't care about what happen to the bodies!!!!

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

sunndoggy8

02-16-2002, 09:15 AM

First off, on the Subaru.com website they claim to have raised 1 million dollars for the Red Cross and relief efforts, so don't believe everything that cnn headline news throws your way, b/c if one company is wrong in this article, then who knows what else is as well.

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"Lumos!"

sunndoggy8

02-16-2002, 09:37 AM

For years our economy has suffered because we're generally too much of pussies to stop buying shit from countries that WON'T SELL OUR SHIT!

Um huh? Our economy during the late 90's and into 2000 was booming, and in the best shape it had been in years. Plus unemployment was at all time lows. Yes things are different now with the recession we're in, but it's not for the reason you mentioned.

And FUNKMAN, I buy a lot of Sony products too.not because they're not primarily made here in the USA, but b/c it's the best technology out there, and I trust them not to sell me a crappy product that will break after a couple months. But I don't have that confidence in a lot of other companies. If they want me to buy their stuff, they need to build confidence and faith in their goods and services.and it sucks that the upper 5% of company makes so much more than the other 95%, but don't discount the fact that, as you said, they worked for it. It's not a cakewalk to become a CEO, and when you are, the responsibilities and job that goes along with it is something that shapes and molds your company for years to come. Just look at Enron and see how bad upper management will destroy a company. Yes they are probably getting away with it, but look at GE and Jack Welsh to see how a CEO can greatly change and mold a company to become profitable and solid.

And I'm not sure what you meant about the 6 extra years of schooling, but at times it does justify someone getting paid much more than another person. Just look at salary comparisons between MBA grads and those who don't go to college at all.6 yrs of education is worth a lot, and should be. You (should) know more!

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"Lumos!"

sexy bastard

02-16-2002, 11:19 AM

I am a former proud owner of a chevy spectrum...american cars rock no matter how bad you mess them up

the epitame of masculinity (yeah right)

furie

02-16-2002, 11:21 AM

Daimler Chrysler as far as i'm
concerned is a german company.
merger my ass. most of the
vp's are german. but you're
right. i generally drive
American(although right now i
have a VW) i've had a chevy
Cavalier, ford mustang, and
chevy metro
i don't like chryslers.....

<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/surfer.jpg" width=300 height=100 >
Thanks WWFallon!

Poison Ivy

02-16-2002, 11:50 AM

Uh oh...Sunny's mad...DUCK!!!! :)

<img src=http://spirit515.50megs.com/ivysig.jpg width="300" height="100"> <marquee> Oh my god, like there goes another lemming</marquee>

Gwen

02-17-2002, 06:15 AM

Okay okay so i know this is a "serious" thread, but on the topic of buying American here are a few more reasons why you should:
<a href=http://robie.nine-zero.com:443/posts/28.asp>Click On Me!</a>

<img src=http://robie.nine-zero.com:443/files/dynamitediva/gwennybear.jpg>
Joe Poo Is My Hero

IkeaBoy

02-17-2002, 09:21 AM

you know you might say this but if it was between a buick and a bmw, we all know which you'd choose.

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

CovDiesel

02-18-2002, 07:55 PM

I own a volkswagen... I rule... cause they are good people.. or something.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/covpigs.jpg">

SatinDoll

02-18-2002, 10:20 PM

so what is wrong with a buick, ikea boy? i have a fully loaded new rendezvous and i wanna tell you it's the shit and more...if it's good enough for tiger woods, it's fine with me...i think we need to reassess our thinking these days...this country needs to look towards home grown and support our own rather then what is considered "elite"...granted we should also strive to make the best...so people don't have to look elsewhere....maybe even pay a little more for products so we can accomplish that...and not send our money to countries who don't serve our best interest....just my two cents

Poison Ivy

02-18-2002, 11:06 PM

FUNKMAN

02-19-2002, 06:19 AM

And I'm not sure what you meant about the 6 extra years of schooling, but at times it does justify someone getting paid much more than another person. Just look at salary comparisons between MBA grads and those who don't go to college at all.6 yrs of education is worth a lot, and should be. You (should) know more!

Sunny,

Thanks for the response...
I'm thinking about when I worked at the Colgate Plant. The CEO Reuben Mark last time I checked had earned 70 million for the year. The guy in the plant was earning approx 60k with alot of overtime. I also look at while Reuben was in college for 4 or 6 years, there was a worker contributing to the companies success for them 4 or 6 years...
I would consider this a "vast" difference in salary...
So what happens, they decide to close the Colgate Plant and move the operation to an area where they are paying people less wages and benefits... A thousand people out of work but no decline in the CEO's salary...
Just doesn't seem fair to me...I look at it as the American worker getting "F'd" over by another American worker...
You're right, I should know more and wish i did, just speaking from my experience and always willing to listen...

Thanks!

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 2-19-02 @ 10:43 AM

Dan

02-19-2002, 06:43 AM

How much did Ford contribute in 1995 when the Ken Nanbu Earthquake occurred on the western Honshu Island in Japan, killing 5000?

How much did GM?

I don't know and I don't care.
You have to look at total charitable giving, not whether they gave to a particular cause you are interested in. I didn't give to any September 11th funds. I did, however, give plenty of my money and time for Parkinsons research and Environmental protection charaties. Does that make me a bad person? Does that mean I don't care about those who perished on 9/11? I just chose to give my money and time where I thought it was best used. It's my choice just like it's a corporations choice.

I'm not saying don't buy american. I'm just saying using patriotic guilt to sell cars is unfair.

Plus, all Toyota and Honda cars sold in the US are assembled in North America by North Americans.

Further, Honda and Toyota are the only major manufacturers who have released Hybrid engine cars in the US, so, in my opinion, they are doing far more for the well-being of all americans than they could have by donating pocket change (to them) to a 9/11 fund.

BTW, I own a car made by a company on that list that donated the most money.

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IkeaBoy

02-19-2002, 07:38 AM

So what you're saying Satin is only buy because its America, not because of quality or gas milage or anything but just because it has the American name. Do you really think buying a car from Ford will help any 9/11 victims or laid off workers than if you bought from BMW? Of course this fits perfectly into a theory which I don't want to believe.

And yes Dan that does make you a bad person. However your point does show the "If it's not Americans, fuck 'em" attitude our countries have.

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

SatinDoll

02-19-2002, 12:51 PM

no, ikeaboy....that is not what i am saying....if you look at my post you will notice that it reads "..granted we should also strive to make the best...so people don't have to look elsewhere....maybe even pay a little more for products so we can accomplish that"...it shouldn't be a choice of buy american and "settle" or buy foreign and get "better"...american made should "be" better...we can do that but we need support from our own....and no i don't think that buying a ford will do anything to help the poor souls killed on 9/ll or their grief stricken loved ones who were left behind...but buying an american car might have helped those who lost their jobs when the ford plant closed in new jersey...or the 1,000 people who are being laid off from the gm linden, new jersey plant...it might help strengthen our economy a little bit...and doesn't a stronger economy help us all?

sunndoggy8

02-19-2002, 03:14 PM

FUNKMAN, First off, I miss-spoke in my post, and I totally apologize if I insulted you by what I posted. I didn't at all mean that you personally should actually know more, because what right do I have to say that to anyone (I'm clueless most of the time)! So I'm sorry for that.

Having the extra years on your resume do matter though(of course).companies see that extra time in school, and they think you know more, so they pay you more. Salary wise, I do think upper management should make more.but you're right, because it can be incredibly too much when it comes to some of those multi-million dollar salaries. What's scary is that being an upper management exec is actually a career dream of mine.maybe that's why I'm so supportive of those salaries!

But pursuing a grad. Degree isn't something I'm particular looking forward to do if I do so, because I know once I graduate in a couple months, coming back to school for a masters won't look so fun.

What I think it comes down to is loyalty. Should the American worker expect an amount of loyalty from a company that has gained it's prominence on the back of American workers, or should the company look out for it's best interests? It's tough to say, to be honest with you. I'd like to believe that a company should be loyal to it's workers, but use this analogy.if you were going a barber for years, and you loved the barber, but he started raising prices.(higher taxes, environmental standards, wages), would you still stay with him b/c you've been with him forever, or would you go to the new barber down the street whose charging next to nothing for your haircuts? How loyal would you be?

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"Lumos!"

sunndoggy8

02-19-2002, 03:15 PM

SatinDoll, here's the problem...people are going to buy the best products as the best prices within their price ranges. Foreign cars have been those products, and while you can make a case that it is partly patriotic to do so, consumers buying lower quality cars just to support American workers isn't good economic policy either. It's good for the people, but economically it would just flood the market with inefficient and even dangerous goods.

It sucks that those people are out of work, but companies can't rely on patriotism to support them...they have to make quality products at affordable prices. Consumers can only do so much, and it isn't their responsibility to keep those plants open. It's the companies'.

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"Lumos!"

FUNKMAN

02-19-2002, 03:41 PM

FUNKMAN, First off, I miss-spoke in my post, and I totally apologize if I insulted you by what I posted.

Sunny,

You are a good man. There is no need to apologize. I did not take offense to anything you said...

Best Regards!

Ron

<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">

sketchy

02-19-2002, 06:19 PM

"The truth is that ALL car companies are multinational corperations that have no national identity."

If you think that GM and Ford are more "American" than Toyota or Fiat your are sorely mistaken. The only thing any of these corperations care about is the bottom line.

As for the heros....."During the 1980's Ford and GM built new factories in Mexico and Brazil while closing plants in the U.S. Today, American roads are filled with Mexican-made Chevy's and Chryslers. On the other hand your local Honda dealer can sell you a car made in Japan (Prelude, S2000, Insight), USA (Accord, Passport), Canada (Civic, Odyssey), and even England (new CR-V)."

I would hope that someone wouldnt buy a new car out of some sort of misguided patriotism. The big three seem to be wrapping their mediocre veliches in the american flag and using "partronizing patriotism" to sell the them.

i found this....

"This list does not detail every vehicle sold in America. Rather, it contains certain vehicles that we think will surprise you in terms of where they are built.

2001 Audi TT
Where built: Hungary

2001 BMW M Coupe
Where Built: Spartanburg, S.C.

2001 BMW X5
Where Built: Spartanburg, S.C.

2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
Where Built: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada; Pontiac, Mich.

2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
Where Built: Toluca, Mexico

2001 Dodge Ram 1500
Where Built: St. Louis, Mo.; Saltillo, Mexico; Lago, Mexico

2001 Honda Odyssey
Where Built: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

2001 Mazda Tribute
Where Built: Kansas City, Mo.

2001 Mercedes-Benz ML430
Where Built: Tuscaloosa, Ala.

2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse
Where Built: Normal, Ill.

2001 Pontiac Firebird
Where Built: Ste.-Therese, Quebec, Canada

2001 Porsche Boxster
Where Built: Zuffenhausen, Germany; Valmet, Finland

2001 Subaru Legacy
Where Built: Lafayette, Ind.

2001 Toyota Camry
Where Built: Georgetown, Ky.

2001 Toyota Sienna
Where Built: Georgetown, Ky.

2001 Toyota Tacoma
Where Built: Fremont, CA

2001 Toyota Tundra
Where Built: Princeton, Ind.

2001 Volkswagen New Beetle
Where Built: Puebla, Mexico

2001 Volkswagen Golf/Jetta
Where Built: Puebla, Mexico

with so many Japanese and other foreign makes of cars actually built in the U.S., buying one of those cars (something like a Camry or an Accord built in the U.S.) actually helps the American economy more than buying a Ford or Chevy that was built in Mexico or Canada."

our country is built on a system of liasse fair capitolism. support it. encourage competition. how do you think american cars are where they are now? the japanese and german competition forced american companies to make better cars. if you want to buy american, buy the best car for your money and needs.

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SatinDoll

02-19-2002, 07:56 PM

arrgh....i give up...i'm switching my major to economics so that maybe some day i'll be able to put forth an argument with some clout...until then...it is my personal choice to buy everything american made that i can...call me crazy, or of misguided loyalty....call me politically incorrect or just plain stupid...i don't give a rat's

i fuckin love this country and i'll do everything i can in my small little world to try to make a difference....even if that means sacrificing a little quality or a little cash to make a change...cause i feel in the long run it will pay off

and if you don't agree....that's your prerogative

and btw can someone please, please give me a sig pic...i'm sooo bland and wordy :-(

and much thanks to poison ivy for acknowledging my post :-)

Dan

02-20-2002, 06:12 AM

call me politically incorrect or just plain stupid

Actually, I would call you politically correct.

And, and economics major will just show you that foreign trade in a free and open market is what made the USA the Superpower that it is. Without it, we'd be China: a glut of natural resources and a starving population drinking out of streams and urinating in holes.

Free trade promotes freedom globably.

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IkeaBoy

02-20-2002, 10:07 AM

american made should "be" betterWhy? Because you're patriotic, American necessarily is gooder? That is hardly ever the case. but buying an american car might have helped those who lost their jobs when the ford plant closed in new jersey...or the 1,000 people who are being laid off from the gm linden, new jersey plantOnce I ask, how does this figure? do you think if a company makes more profits it gives more to the people who no longer works for them? Hell, do you think it gives more the low level people who DO work for them?

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

sunndoggy8

02-20-2002, 02:27 PM

I have a question to pose.

People always get so angry and upset when companies move to different countries, because they believe they should be loyal to America because that's where they started...even though they can have lower costs of production in other countries than in America.

But how come this loyalty doesn't go both ways? When was the last time someone stayed at a company when offered something paying more from a different company?

There's such a double standard here. Why should a company be loyal to workers who aren't loyal either? It has to go both ways.

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"The sea was angry that day, my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli."

sunndoggy8

02-20-2002, 02:36 PM

And SatinDoll, don't change your major to Economics.

I'm an Economics major, and it's incredibly boring.

And what's worse is that you'll end up arguing economic policy about buying american on a message board about a radio show. :(

<IMG SRC="http://home.att.net/~sunndoggy8/harrycatch1.jpg" width=300 height=80>

"The sea was angry that day, my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli."

This message was edited by sunndoggy8 on 2-20-02 @ 6:40 PM

SatinDoll

02-20-2002, 03:10 PM

sunndoggy, you are absolutely right....this is a message board about a radio show....i tend to go off on too many things...i'm gonna lighten up :-)

nice web page you got there, btw

and ikeaboy, i shall defer to your apparent vast economic and philosophical expertise ....and i'll say no more on the subject

Ice Bank Mice Elf

02-20-2002, 04:08 PM

I totally agree with you Gvac......

Ice Bank Mice Elf...... Do you?

NewYorkDragons80

02-21-2002, 10:14 AM

Well, I have a VW, and my family drives a Pontiac, a Chrysler, and a Saturn. I guess we're in the clear.

"THOSE BASTARDS"
-Norman Schwarzkopf

"May God bless us in this trial, comfort us, strengthen our resolve, and make our justice as terrible and certain as His."
-Senator John McCain

"Neitzche is dead"
-God

Prince Neptune

02-21-2002, 10:19 AM

I've owned about 22 vehicles in my life and they have all been American, except my Yamaha 200 Tri-Z
but that dont count since its a dirt bike.

Molester of mermaids and seafairing maidens

FUNKMAN

02-21-2002, 10:34 AM

There's such a double standard here. Why should a company be loyal to workers who aren't loyal either? It has to go both ways.

I would not compare a worker leaving the job with a thousand jobs leaving the country...

You do make a point but I believe your comparing apples and oranges...

In most cases workers leave a company because they are not being compensated fairly, or they wish to advance their learning and opportunities...

In most cases if an employee is treated fairly he will be loyal to the company...

But anyhow, that employee remains in the Country for the most part...

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"come again in the rice pudding"

IkeaBoy

02-21-2002, 10:38 AM

this is a message board about a radio show....i tend to go off on too many thingsOff topic anything goes and does this mean I win?

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin