Should we bailout detroit?

[furie]

The feds refused to bail NYC out in the 1970's and the city didn't implode. Why should Detroit be bailed out?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What bankruptcy?

Taxpayers will be paying for a new arena for the Wings. The rest of the cost will be sold via bond auction.

[spoon]

I'd say help them all but contract the fucking ginger wings!

[Snoogans]

arent they sellin goff the multi billion dollar art collection? Id bail them out once they have NOTHING left. You got billions in art, you aint broke yet

[brettmojo]

They're close enough to Canada to be their problem.

[spoon]

arent they sellin goff the multi billion dollar art collection? Id bail them out once they have NOTHING left. You got billions in art, you aint broke yet

don't think that's actually happening, but should it?

serious question

[spoon]

They're close enough to Canada to be their problem.

huh?

[Snoogans]

don't think that's actually happening, but should it?

serious question

well the art is owned by the city itself. So, if the city cant pay its bills, then yea, just cause it is precious art doesnt matter.

If the government seizes your shit because you cant pay bills, you dont get to choose valuable stuff to keep. You need the money that bad, sell off your non essential shit, like an art collection, see what you still need, then come talk about a bailout

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sell that art.

Do the wings really need a new arena? These fucking owners boast how rich they are but they go begging to the taxpayer to foot the bill.

Look how Loria fucked the people in Miami over

[furie]

selling the art is futilely. it wouldn't even cover even one years worth of the shortfall. and then what?

[Syd]

selling the art is futilely. it wouldn't even cover even one years worth of the shortfall. and then what?

that's the point of Republicans nowadays, remove anything that can be perceived as valuable from society and put it into the hands of the extreme few

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What good is art when the Police take an hour to respond.

Sure its not going to cover all their debt but it will show some responsibility.

Hey Wings fans. Suck it up. The Joe isn't going to collapse. If you want a newer Arena you can always share the Palace at Auburn Hills with the Pistons

[Snoogans]

selling the art is futilely. it wouldn't even cover even one years worth of the shortfall. and then what?

from what i read, the art is worth somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 BILLION dollars that the city owns. That would do enough to cover quite a bit. The point being, if we are talking about bailing them out, they better have exhausted every resource they have.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How much do they owe? Ive read in some articles 20 billion, others show it about 11

[Snoogans]

How much do they owe? Ive read in some articles 20 billion, others show it about 11

i saw 20. but even going on that, the art collection is at least 10% of their debts. I cant see much reason NOT to sell it

[SonOfSmeagol]

maybe they can graze cattle on on all that land?

[SonOfSmeagol]

that's the point of Republicans nowadays, remove anything that can be perceived as valuable from society and put it into the hands of the extreme few

well, there are an "extreme few" left in the ruins of Detroit now, but your evil republicans didn't leave them there, I assure you

[spoon]

What good is art when the Police take an hour to respond.

Sure its not going to cover all their debt but it will show some responsibility.

Hey Wings fans. Suck it up. The Joe isn't going to collapse. If you want a newer Arena you can always share the Palace at Auburn Hills with the Pistons


GOD you're stupid. Police take and hour and a city left for dead needs to show "some responsibility". Yah, WF comedy gold.

[spoon]

Sell that art.

Do the wings really need a new arena? These fucking owners boast how rich they are but they go begging to the taxpayer to foot the bill.

Look how Loria fucked the people in Miami over

WF IN HD!
Headlines deep once again.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

GOD you're stupid. Police take and hour and a city left for dead needs to show "some responsibility". Yah, WF comedy gold.

Yah keep that art. If it was so special to their citizens would visit Detroit and it would give the MoMA and Met competition.


Dope

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF IN HD!
Headlines deep once again.

Yea that Joe is going to collapse. Must have new arena

[furie]

from what i read, the art is worth somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 BILLION dollars that the city owns. That would do enough to cover quite a bit. The point being, if we are talking about bailing them out, they better have exhausted every resource they have.

they owe $17 billion even giving it 5 billion in art, it's no where close enough to be solvent

[WRESTLINGFAN]

they owe $17 billion even giving it 5 billion in art, it's no where close enough to be solvent

Wouldn't it be like how companies/people go thru bankruptcy? They can negotiate their debt while in receivership and selling that art while wont wipe out all debt it would show that they are serious about trying to getting their finances in somewhat order and as Snoogans said then they can get bailed out by the state or as a last resort the feds

[spoon]

Yea that Joe is going to collapse. Must have new arena



Oh i CLEARLY said that!

[spoon]

Yah keep that art. If it was so special to their citizens would visit Detroit and it would give the MoMA and Met competition.


Dope


Nonsensical per usual.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who is going to Detroit for the art?

[Snoogans]

they owe $17 billion even giving it 5 billion in art, it's no where close enough to be solvent

i didnt say it would. Did you not read the whole other part. How bout they exhaust the resources BEFORE we start talking about bailing them out.

Meaning ok, say the debt is 20 bill. The art is 3. Now the debt is 17, or at least keeps it from continuing to mount.

Im just sayin that if they are gonna go to washington and ask for money, then you have to liquify your assets. You cant just have money and get to keep all your stuff.

[SonOfSmeagol]

maybe they could pawn it?

[furie]

i didnt say it would. Did you not read the whole other part. How bout they exhaust the resources BEFORE we start talking about bailing them out.

Meaning ok, say the debt is 20 bill. The art is 3. Now the debt is 17, or at least keeps it from continuing to mount.

Im just sayin that if they are gonna go to washington and ask for money, then you have to liquify your assets. You cant just have money and get to keep all your stuff.

i did read the other part. it wasnt worth quoting.

as i said when i started this thread, NYC was in the same situation. if NY had sold all of it's art in 1977, it would have been in a sore spot today. think of how much that art contributed to the economy today.

for detroit to consider selling a resource like that is very short sighted.

[Snoogans]

i did read the other part. it wasnt worth quoting.

as i said when i started this thread, NYC was in the same situation. if NY had sold all of it's art in 1977, it would have been in a sore spot today. think of how much that art contributed to the economy today.

for detroit to consider selling a resource like that is very short sighted.

im sure the answer is alot, but I just dont know. How much art does the City of New York own itself? I know alot of the museum pieces are on loan or donated to the museums. Does that donation make them technically city owned?

I couldnt find much by way of how much art NYC owns itself

[furie]

im sure the answer is alot, but I just dont know. How much art does the City of New York own itself? I know alot of the museum pieces are on loan or donated to the museums. Does that donation make them technically city owned?

I couldnt find much by way of how much art NYC owns itself

the point is, you're looking at it like it's an asset when it is a resource.

[Snoogans]

the point is, you're looking at it like it's an asset when it is a resource.

no, im not. I know its a resource. But we dont have money. I dont know what else there really would be to do. Maybe they could kinda put the art up then. Give it to the Federal government to bail them out as like a loan. When they pay back the money they get the art back.

If the city was so stupid to run itself into bankruptcy, do they deserve to keep their resource? Shouldnt bankruptcy apply to a city the same as it would people? Its tough, but if they want federal money, they gotta do all they can first

[Syd]

im sure the answer is alot, but I just dont know. How much art does the City of New York own itself? I know alot of the museum pieces are on loan or donated to the museums. Does that donation make them technically city owned?

I couldnt find much by way of how much art NYC owns itself

They get stuff on loan because they themselves loan things out. They own a great deal of the art because it is donated.

Selling things for a short period of time while ignoring long term benefits isn't going to help Detroit. Arizona recently got fucked when they sold pretty much all their buildings to overcome a budget shortage and then they had to pay a ton in leasing costs.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Poor schlubs. They voted for Barack twice and he tells them fuck you I'm going to Marthas Vineyard

If he could run again they would put him in for another term in 2016.

[spoon]

Sigh.

HERE we go again with the vacation bullshit! You think the detroit financial issue is going anywhere and a reason to cancel vacation?! Obama takes a shitload less vacation than our last idiot in office, and probably even less than every ceo in this country. Deal with it you dumb fuck.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Let the fucker vacation in Michigan. Hell they run commercials all the time.

Yup that phony is a man of the people , people being bankers and hedge fund managers. All the pale fucks in MA can't wait to see their favorite little corporate shill

[WRESTLINGFAN]

PS

The last idiot is gone. You dope

This guy whines about the rich and the 1% but he sure loves them

[sailor]

the point is, you're looking at it like it's an asset when it is a resource.

I don't see a difference between those two terms.

[Snoogans]

They get stuff on loan because they themselves loan things out. They own a great deal of the art because it is donated.

Selling things for a short period of time while ignoring long term benefits isn't going to help Detroit. Arizona recently got fucked when they sold pretty much all their buildings to overcome a budget shortage and then they had to pay a ton in leasing costs.

right, because they still needed to use those buildings. That has nothing to do with selling some stuff they dont need.

[furie]

I don't see a difference between those two terms.

an assest is merely worth something for it's value, however a resource (which can be sold for it's value like an asset) generates income.

[SonOfSmeagol]

an assest is merely worth something for it's value, however a resource (which can be sold for it's value like an asset) generates income.

or is an asset something you have capital investment in vs. something that can generate cash flow?

http://d.gr-assets.com/users/1366662834p3/19483076.jpg

[furie]

or is an asset something you have capital investment in vs. something that can generate cash flow?

http://d.gr-assets.com/users/1366662834p3/19483076.jpg

ok, sure

[sailor]

Not really a thing.

[SonOfSmeagol]

just bustin. the city should be able to find some way to keep its art, for chrissake

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Eminem, The Nooge, Cooper, and Kid Rock can donate a few million each. I know it wont put a hole in the gap but hell every dollar helps

[Dude!]

Eminem, The Nooge, Cooper, and Kid Rock can donate a few million each. I know it wont put a hole in the gap but hell every dollar helps

Madonna's from Michigan too...
she could make a big dent,
except she moved
to the whitest part of England
to get away from those people

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Chrysler and GM should contribute something. Their asses were rescued. Hell GM still enjoys a tax abatement

[furie]

Chrysler and GM should contribute something. Their asses were rescued. Hell GM still enjoys a tax abatement

how about toyota and honda kick in because they helped kill the industry...?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Will Detroit take Yen ?

[PapaBear]

Will Detroit take Yen ?
At this point, Detroit would probably take lentils.

[jennysmurf]

At this point, Detroit would probably take lentils.

They'd better not do an internet search on how to cook them, though.

[PapaBear]

They'd better not do an internet search on how to cook them, though.
DAMMIT! I completely forgot the reason for my callback, and just did an internet search to see what would happen. :wallbash:

[jennysmurf]

DAMMIT! I completely forgot the reason for my callback, and just did an internet search to see what would happen. :wallbash:

It's been nice knowing you...actually, if they come for you, I've never known you.

[PapaBear]

It's been nice knowing you...actually, if they come for you, I've never known you.
You think they don't know about the cookies?

[jennysmurf]

You think they don't know about the cookies?

Who are you again?

[furie]

then again, the lentil cook could turn their luck around....

[jennysmurf]

then again, the lentil cook could turn their luck around....

Great, now you're using buzzwords! Ya'll gonna cause a raid up in here! *starts shredding mod documents*

[furie]

don't worry, there's only a few weeks until breaking bad comes back.

[jennysmurf]

don't worry, there's only a few weeks until breaking bad comes back.

Too late. As far as our paper trail goes, this place didn't exist before 2008. I have a really good shredder.

[PapaBear]

Too late. As far as our paper trail goes, this place didn't exist before 2008. I have a really good shredder.
For some reason, this post inspired me to do a search for posts in which I've used the word "midgets". I've completely forgotten why. But THIS (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2650584) is one of the two posts I came up with.

[jennysmurf]

For some reason, this post inspired me to do a search for posts in which I've used the word "midgets". I've completely forgotten why. But THIS (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2650584) is one of the two posts I came up with.

It didn't link right, but I'm already judging you even without proper evidence. What the heck made you think of midgets?

[PapaBear]

It didn't link right, but I'm already judging you even without proper evidence. What the heck made you think of midgets?
I fixed the link

[PapaBear]

It didn't link right, but I'm already judging you even without proper evidence. What the heck made you think of midgets?
And I SAID, I can't remember why. I think it was something along the lines of trying to find something more offensive than pressure cooker girl scout cookie lentil bombs.

[jennysmurf]

And I SAID, I can't remember why. I think it was something along the lines of trying to find something more offensive than pressure cooker girl scout cookie lentil bombs.

You're the worst.:laugh:

[PapaBear]

You're the worst.:laugh:
Pressure Cooker Girl Scout Cookie Lentil Bombs is obviously the name of my new band. Our next album is "Live at the Leeds Tastee Freez".

[jennysmurf]

Pressure Cooker Girl Scout Cookie Lentil Bombs is obviously the name of my new band. Our next album is "Live at the Leeds Tastee Freez".

I thought leeds was Hard Rock Johnny.

[PapaBear]

I thought leeds was Hard Rock Johnny.
http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/75/64575-004-B6525747.gif

Some band called The Who played there once, I hear.

[jennysmurf]

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/75/64575-004-B6525747.gif

Some band called The Who played there once, I hear.

Now he's a whole country too? He gets around! I don't know how he keeps it all straight!

[spoon]

So much for losing weight I guess.

[hanso]

Koch brothers donate toxic cloud to Detroit

[spoon]

Pollution joke?

As usual i dont get it.

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fYHEACE-v0k?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


At this point, Detroit would probably take lentils.

They'd better not do an internet search on how to cook them, though.

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JDGb2_FQO8M?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/35cIPgOLt3g?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Pollution joke?

As usual i dont get it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aktLRiWXfqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sailor]

Koch brothers donate toxic cloud to Detroit

And a smile?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They might sell that art. Christie's was hired to appraise the value of their collection

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Indians fans mock Detroit at Tigers game


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/justin-robinson-pleads-guilty-killing-autumn-pasquale_n_3721891.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Indians game

[furie]

They might sell that art. Christie's was hired to appraise the value of their collection

doesn't he have enough running NJ? Now he's apprising art?

[spoon]

Yah, u linked the wrong story WF.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/08/08/cleveland-fans-shout-detroits-bankrupt-at-tigers-game/

[sailor]

Nah, didn't work again.

[Misteriosa]

The feds refused to bail NYC out in the 1970's and the city didn't implode. Why should Detroit be bailed out?

I say yes, help bail out detroit.

didnt pres. ford initally refuse to bail out NYC, then changed his mind b/c of public pressure? i may be wrong, but i remember reading about how ford eventually asked congress to approve yearly loans to nyc for the rest of the 70s (and they did).

we got bailed out after we cut *a lot* of services (which i think is what helped the south bronx become SUCH an utter shit hole that its only begun to recover in the last decade, but thats another conversation.) its only fair to help detroit out too.

eta: and nyc almost did implode from it's finaicial troubles

[Misteriosa]

ahh.. ive found something on what i posted re: nyc bailout. ill quote it below and try to find a more scholarly source, that isnt behind a pay wall. (emphasis is mine)


Ford held to his stern justification that he was forcing New York to restore its own fiscal viability, but at the same time, his retreat had become inevitable. Within the city, frantic negotiations took place involving all parties, including banks that had funded the city's short-term securities. Under the pressure, all interested parties came together during additional weeks of negotiations. Drastic reductions were made in the city's work force. Bankers restructured bond issues. The new Municipal Assistance Corporation was established to sell securities. Union pension funds were committed to their purchase. One near disaster after another was averted in a series of cliff-hanger scenarios.

Finally, with the city seemingly acting to repair the damage and the broader consequences of a default becoming clearer, Ford changed his stance when he met the press on 26 November. "I have, quite frankly," he announced, "been surprised that they have come as far as they have." Ford then asked Congress to approve federal loans to the city on a seasonal basis through 30 June 1978. He covered his own retreat by emphasizing that New York had "bailed itself out." Finally, by a narrow margin in the House, Congress approved Ford's request for a seasonal financing act to provide up to $2.3 billion for short-term loans during the next three years at 1 percent above the federal cost of money. To further fortify the city against default, in case that assistance failed to work, additional legislation was enacted to facilitate municipal bankruptcy proceedings so that New York and other cities could adjust repayment of their debts. Ford's position, combined with local and federal measures, induced some painful cutbacks but did start the process of rehabilitating New York's finances.

http://www.presidentprofiles.com/Kennedy-Bush/Gerald-R-Ford-The-new-york-city-crisis.html#ixzz2bU2eNSw7

[sailor]

Municipal assistance corp - independent corp created by ny state to raise money to bailout NYC in 75. Sold bonds backed by sales taxes and stock transfer taxes. No federal bailout from what I can tell. Also NYC never went bankrupt, so I don't know what steps can be taken after a city declares bankruptcy.

[Misteriosa]

Municipal assistance corp - independent corp created by ny state to raise money to bailout NYC in 75. Sold bonds backed by sales taxes and stock transfer taxes. No federal bailout from what I can tell. Also NYC never went bankrupt, so I don't know what steps can be taken after a city declares bankruptcy.

the bailout was in the form of federal loans approved by the us congress to nyc. this is what helped nyc from going bankrupt.

and i know youtube isnt very scholarly, but i found this bit of news broadcast interesting

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/spmG2dOtYDk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>