Is silence music?

[keithy_19]

As some may have noticed (but probably not), I have a fascination with controversial works of "art". No matter the medium, there is something that absolutely rivets me to these expressions.

When I was in high school I took a music appreciation class and one of the things we listened to was a piercing collection of violins. It was almost unlistenable (if anyone knows what it's called, please let me know as I've forgotten).

With the passing of Captain Beefheart I've explored experimental music a little bit more than I usually do. I came across John Cage's composition, 4'33". For those who don't know it, it's 3 movements where he instructs the muscians not to play.

It seems lazy to me. But what say you? Is silence music? I get that a rest in a piece of music can be incredibly powerful, but sitting through 4 minutes and 33 seconds of assumed sounds seems like overkill.

This being said, if I ever find myself in a talent competition I know what I'm doing.

[spoon]

If it's a yoko ono song, yes

[TripleSkeet]

I cant speak for anyone else, but as a father of 2 kids under 4 years old silence is the most beautiful music there is.

[keithy_19]

If it's a yoko ono song, yes

I agree. I prefer having an orgasm much more.:wallbash:

[StanUpshaw]

The most pretentious cunt I've ever met would even roll his eyes at something like that.

[furie]

silence can be art, but i wouldn't consider it music anymore than darkness can't be considered light.

[keithy_19]

silence can be art, but i wouldn't consider it music anymore than darkness can't be considered light.

There was a painter who had a bunch of paintings in an exhibit that were all just white wash canvasas. Apparently when you went into each room the lighting showed that they were different shades of white. The shadows of the viewers were also part of the "work".

[angrytruckingguy]

Maybe it's not exactly the same, but I've heard Carlos Santana explain how knowing where to leave out notes is probably more important than cramming a flurry into a small space. Though, it could have been him taking a shot at shredding which was way too over-hyped at the time. And what about songs where there is a break, a hesitation, then they jump back in? I can't think of a good example right now.

[spoon]

Maybe it's not exactly the same, but I've heard Carlos Santana explain how knowing where to leave out notes is probably more important than cramming a flurry into a small space. Though, it could have been him taking a shot at shredding which was way too over-hyped at the time. And what about songs where there is a break, a hesitation, then they jump back in? I can't think of a good example right now.

Yah, Keithy did cover that in the first post you probably just missed it. I totally agree on your point though and how important silence can be to a song here and there for emotional effect and more.

Oh and by the way, we need to change ur screen name. I've now have seen plenty of your posts of late and your name simply doesn't fit. You seem like a happytruckingguy, not angry! Do you run a fake anti-censorship group too?

:wink:

[keithy_19]

Maybe it's not exactly the same, but I've heard Carlos Santana explain how knowing where to leave out notes is probably more important than cramming a flurry into a small space. Though, it could have been him taking a shot at shredding which was way too over-hyped at the time. And what about songs where there is a break, a hesitation, then they jump back in? I can't think of a good example right now.

I agree with him to a degree.

And I have no problem with songs with breaks that are relatively minor. I hate closing tracks on albums that have a 10 minute silence after the song ends to just go into a secret track.

[Suspect Chin]

If silence is music, then this is art:

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

[StanUpshaw]

If silence is music, then this is art:

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

Shit just got real.

[spoon]

the hidden track thing is hardly being played off as music though

i'd say it was clever back in 1987 when cds were still somewhat new

[spoon]

If silence is music, then this is art:

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

Beautiful!

I bet it makes great music.

[Enabler]

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[keithy_19]

If silence is music, then this is art:

http://www.nga.gov/feature/pollock/lm1024.jpg

His prints were much better than his splotches of paint.

With this being said, I painted a picture for my ex girlfriend when we were dating of a picture I took of the sky when I was in Ireland. So the canvas is just a mess of blue and white and gray. Last time me and her saw each other it was still sitting on her floor inbetween two dressers she has. My "art" was so unappreciated. No wonder she left me.

[Suspect Chin]

His prints were much better than his splotches of paint.

With this being said, I painted a picture for my ex girlfriend when we were dating of a picture I took of the sky when I was in Ireland. So the canvas is just a mess of blue and white and gray. Last time me and her saw each other it was still sitting on her floor inbetween two dressers she has. My "art" was so unappreciated. No wonder she left me.


Are you turning this into another 'woman who left you' thread?

[keithy_19]

Are you turning this into another 'woman who left you' thread?

Not at all. I just wanted to point my own hypocrisy in my dislike of painters that throw paint at a canvas.

The part about the painting between the dressers was just an aside. It never bothered me. And the leaving me part was just me trying to be funny. I'm very unfunny.

[spoon]

the fire to burn it would be beautiful

so you'll always have that

[keithy_19]

the fire to burn it would be beautiful

so you'll always have that

:tongue:

[KnoxHarrington]

Well, if you just sort of state, flat out, what "4:33" is, it sounds silly. So you have to see it as Cage meant it to be presented -- as an actual musical performance. So here you go:

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[realmenhatelife]

I think you have two questions going. Is silence music? No, by definition music is sound but silence is essential to music, and so is time.

The question I think you're really asking is Is silence art? Just like is a bunch of white canvases, or a performance piece where a Yoko Ono does whatever the hell she does, or a bunch of orange drapes?

The answer is again, no. But neither is a traditional painting, or a poem or whatever. The physical mode of expression isn't the art part, the way you react to it is. Art only exists within the audience. So, if something really abstract like 4 minutes of silence in the middle of a concert gets you to react in any way, then its art.

[sailor]

Well, if you just sort of state, flat out, what "4:33" is, it sounds silly. So you have to see it as Cage meant it to be presented -- as an actual musical performance. So here you go:

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it's exactly as moronic as when keithy described it. absolutely not art.

[Chigworthy]

it's exactly as moronic as when keithy described it. absolutely not art.

It looks like one of those Euro (or Quebec?) street prank shows. Just speed up the camera in spots and foley in some cheesy sound effects and bad music.

I think that this exemplifies the creative decay that can set in after an "artist" reaches a level of celebrity. I've always felt that success is usually inhibitive to artistic creativity. If an artist has some mental illness going on, that can counteract the anti-creative effects of success.

[Bob Impact]

I think you have two questions going. Is silence music? No, by definition music is sound but silence is essential to music, and so is time.

The question I think you're really asking is Is silence art? Just like is a bunch of white canvases, or a performance piece where a Yoko Ono does whatever the hell she does, or a bunch of orange drapes?

The answer is again, no. But neither is a traditional painting, or a poem or whatever. The physical mode of expression isn't the art part, the way you react to it is. Art only exists within the audience. So, if something really abstract like 4 minutes of silence in the middle of a concert gets you to react in any way, then its art.

:clap:
Brilliant explanation.

[A.J.]

Yes.

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[keithy_19]

it's exactly as moronic as when keithy described it. absolutely not art.

I'm writing a 2 movement piece called "Hum of My Laptop In Darkness".