"Cul de Sac Mentality"

[PapaBear]

That's what I'm calling it. I searched the term, and there is another guy using it. But his applies to something entirely different.

This is what I'm calling the attitudes of upper middle class people who live in communities of "McMansions" and most of the roads end in cul de sacs. I can't STAND these people! They raise their children to believe that the street is their playground, and cars are on obtrusion.

I constantly find in these neighborhoods, that the kids won't even move out of the way when a car is coming. Their parents will yell at cars that are going BELOW the posted speed limit, that they are driving like lunatics, and need to slow down. What the fuck is wrong with parents these days? Don't they understand the need to teach their children that roads are for cars, and that it's dangerous to feel so entitled, that it's perfectly fine to expect all cars to yield to them?

JUST FUCKING STOP IT!!! :furious:

Edit: One positive note... The State of Virginia recently banned them. No new neighborhoods are permitted to be built with cul de sacs. Finally. The Government got something right! But you should have seen the reactions from these people when the law was passed. They said "we need a place for our children to safely play!"

[Suspect Chin]

How about the multitude of 'Children at Play', 'Drive Smart, Kids Dart', and obscenely low speed limit signs posted everywhere in these neighborhoods?

On a side note, I met a guy from Belgium the other day at work and found out that in Belgian cities, each city block has to be completely full of houses or businesses before another block can be built outward. Imagine if this was the law in the US? There would be no suburbs or cul-de-sacs at all.

[tanless1]

Thank god, we live in america.....I would
Not want to live like that.

[PapaBear]

How about the multitude of 'Children at Play', 'Drive Smart, Kids Dart', and obscenely low speed limit signs posted everywhere in these neighborhoods?
That reminds me of another thing that pisses me off. Around here, in the upper class neighborhoods, the speed limits have a smaller sign below them that says "Strictly Enforced". Why is it strictly enforced in those neighborhoods and not the others?

[StanUpshaw]

How about the multitude of 'Children at Play', 'Drive Smart, Kids Dart', and obscenely low speed limit signs posted everywhere in these neighborhoods?

On a side note, I met a guy from Belgium the other day at work and found out that in Belgian cities, each city block has to be completely full of houses or businesses before another block can be built outward. Imagine if this was the law in the US? There would be no suburbs or cul-de-sacs at all.

I, too, long for the infallible wisdom of central planners.

[Suspect Chin]

That reminds me of another thing that pisses me off. Around here, in the upper class neighborhoods, the speed limits have a smaller sign below them that says "Strictly Enforced". Why is it strictly enforced in those neighborhoods and not the others?

Ha! It is strictly enforced by the crazy rich bastard chasing your car down the street with a broom.

[sailor]

missy posted about this a while back (but on regular suburban streets).

[CaptainBlowhole]

I get pissed when I see a sign for the entrance to the Northern State Pkwy that says "No Trucks on Parkway: Low Bridges"n why do they need to add the "low bridges"n as if they are trying to justify the law. I understand there are low bridges an all, and its an obvious danger to a tall vehicle, but the sign shouldn't have to put an excuse for it.
Another sign that upsets me is the Deaf Child sign. Like they are so super special and of greater value than "regular" children!

[sailor]

I get pissed when I see a sign for the entrance to the Northern State Pkwy that says "No Trucks on Parkway: Low Bridges"n why do they need to add the "low bridges"n as if they are trying to justify the law. I understand there are low bridges an all, and its an obvious danger to a tall vehicle, but the sign shouldn't have to put an excuse for it.
Another sign that upsets me is the Deaf Child sign. Like they are so super special and of greater value than "regular" children!


I can only assume you're joking.

[instrument]

Rich kids deserve a trip to the hospital in the trunk of a strangers car just like poor kids!

[foodcourtdruide]

I remember Missy talking about this on the show a while back. I think it goes back to this over-entitlement people with children have. "I have children so you must drive slow".

[danner1515]

That reminds me of another thing that pisses me off. Around here, in the upper class neighborhoods, the speed limits have a smaller sign below them that says "Strictly Enforced". Why is it strictly enforced in those neighborhoods and not the others?

I've always thought that was funny too.

While I understand the main point, I'm not unsympathetic to people wanting relatively safe streets for their kids. There are a lot of people who drive like animals through residential areas. Kids shouldn't play in the street, but kids do ride bicycles, and there really is no reason for anyone drive 50 mph through a suburban neighborhood.

[strawberrypop]

We kids did that in my neighborhood. It had nothing to do with our parents or their sense of entitlement, because they didn't have any. In fact, they were typically the ones who were annoyed by it. it wasn't an upper-middle class neighborhood. It was middle middle class. And it was purely US shithead kids who had that attitude. We'd never move, and when drivers got pissed, we were all "don't these people know that in THIS neighborhood, they have to go around us?" I honestly believed that was a rule that people knew.

[thepaulo]

When I was a kid we respected the paddle.

[spoon]

do you really think there was a need for another stupid fucking law?!

i'm sorry pb, but that is one HELL of a stupid law...let's stop desired setups bc kids aren't paying attention or parents yell at cars. So stupid.

[razorboy]

When I was a kid we respected the paddle.

When you were a kid the paddle had yet to be invented.

[PapaBear]

do you really think there was a need for another stupid fucking law?!

i'm sorry pb, but that is one HELL of a stupid law...let's stop desired setups bc kids aren't paying attention or parents yell at cars. So stupid.
The purpose of the law has nothing to do with my complaints. It's money issue. The reason they gave for the law was that cul de sacs interfere with emergency vehicle's ability to respond on time. The real reason is that it's more expensive for the state to maintain them.

[spoon]

The purpose of the law has nothing to do with my complaints. It's money issue. The reason they gave for the law was that cul de sacs interfere with emergency vehicle's ability to respond on time. The real reason is that it's more expensive for the state to maintain them.

how does that even make sense?

seriously i see no logic in it.

[PapaBear]

how does that even make sense?

seriously i see no logic in it.
The emergency vehicle part is easy to figure out. Some of these neighborhoods are like mazes with a bunch of dead ends. As for the maintenance costs, it's more time consuming to plow them in the winter, for one thing. There may be other factors, too.

[Death Metal Moe]

http://www.moviehole.net/img/bbsequel.jpg

Uh huh huh...you said "sac."

[spoon]

The emergency vehicle part is easy to figure out. Some of these neighborhoods are like mazes with a bunch of dead ends. As for the maintenance costs, it's more time consuming to plow them in the winter, for one thing. There may be other factors, too.

It's called a map or gps for part one...problem solved.

the second part doesn't make sense bc you plow the roads in a neighborhood, the road would have homes on it just as any other in a neighborhood. Still makes no sense to me bc I don't see it taking more time to do the same thing. Even if it did, they pay taxes too, plow it for that simple fucking fact.

[PapaBear]

It definitely takes longer to plow a dead end road. And these neighborhoods are popping up so fast, they aren't even ON GPS. And once an ambulance gets there, they can't just shoot back out to a main road. They have to work their way back through the maze.

[PapaBear]

This is a typical example of the kind of neighborhood I'm talking about. It's ridiculous.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/maps.jpg

[spoon]

So i guess by this logic we should ban one way streets and more too right?

I don't buy any of it, and it's surely not kosher to make something illegal on these factors alone regardless.

[spoon]

I'm pretty sure I can get anywhere in that neighborhood in an emergency vehicle quite fast using that map alone.

In fact, bc the core streets stand out so easily due to the dead end streets, I would think it would be easier.

[PapaBear]

I'm pretty sure I can get anywhere in that neighborhood in an emergency vehicle quite fast using that map alone.
But this is one of the neighborhoods that HAS a map. Many don't. BTW... I changed the pic. The old one was a mistake. That was a much older neighborhood that is easier to figure out. And even this map omits at least 20 new roads.

[spoon]

I still don't see it or the fact a law needed to be enacted to stop something people should have all the freedom in the world to chose if desired. Why would 90% of the population ever or even need to go on most of these streets anyway. I get you and emergency vehicles would knowing what you do, but is it that bad that we need a law to protect ourselves from the awful negatives of the cul de sac?

[sailor]

yeah, i don't see the big deal with these streets either. (btw, looks like a map of central avenue in yonkers.) and if it delays emergency vehicles, the only ones affected are the people who choose to live there. it's not like it's some sort of choke-point that will affect the greater community-at-large. and seriously, how much snow do you get down there anyways?

[SatCam]

I thought I knew what you were talking about until I saw the map. The extent of the urban sprawl in the DC area is nothing like what im used to

[CaptainBlowhole]

I was stuck in traffic on Hempstead Tpk in Levittown and though I could escape by going down a side street. It turns out every street is a curve and just intersects with another street that's a curve and I spent like a half hour trying to get out, and ended up right where I started!

[Dudeman]

http://blog.nj.com/entertainment_impact_tv/2009/03/large_midnig.jpg

[angrymissy]

Yes, R&F brought this up on a show after I put it on my twitter. My old street on LI was fucking insanity with this crap. It was a dead end street on canals... so these was minimal backyard for kids to play in, so they were in the street constantly.

#1 - those stupid basketball things that people put on the curb FACING the road so they can play in the street... then kids take their sweet ass time getting out of the way of your car while they stare at you

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/318H10150SL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

#2 - these:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qEBWpGC%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

BLOCKING THE FUCKING ROAD

#3 - you're driving the speed limit (25) down the road while idiot parents have their small children playing in the road, they then run out into the street and scream SLOW DOWN as you DARE to drive down the street in a car. Don't you know roads are made for children to play in, not for cars?

#4 - Road monitor sets up camp in folding beach chair halfway into the street to watch kids and yell at cars driving down the street. Maybe you shouldn't have your 3 year old attempting to ride a bike by himself weaving in and out of parked cars into the road. Just a suggestion.

#5 - Set up RC Car ramps in the middle of the road. Roads aren't made for cars, they're made for playing!

That's only the tip of the iceberg. These fucking idiots would also just let their kids run directly up to my dog and grab his tail whilst yelling FLUFFY, then glare at me when the dog had the NERVE to turn around and growl and bark.

It's one of the reasons I moved to the woods off a main road.

[angrymissy]

Also, when I was a kid, we rode our bikes and shit in the street, but we wouldn't DARE do it like we fucking owned the street, and if cars came, we were immediately out of their way before they were even close.

When we were kids, my little brother was playing on the sidewalk once, ran out between two parked cars and into the side of a van driving down the street, he fell and the van ran over his leg (went to ER, he ended up being ok, just bruised)

My Grandmother ran out and apologized to the guy that hit him (who was very upset) because he ran out from parked cars and shouldn't have been in the street.

I can guarantee you on my old street there would have been cops, threatened arrest, lawsuits, etc... "how dare you drive your car the speed limit on this street, don't you see there are kids playing"

[A.J.]

Also, when I was a kid, we rode our bikes and shit in the street, but we wouldn't DARE do it like we fucking owned the street, and if cars came, we were immediately out of their way before they were even close.

We played all kinds of games in the street when was a kid. I can totally relate to this scene.

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[angrymissy]

Yes, and nowadays they would both stand there and stare you down while they slowly took 5 minutes to get out of your way. Oh, how I dreamed about gunning the gas and seeing the look on their faces as I took them all down.

We played all kinds of games in the street when was a kid. I can totally relate to this scene.

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[KC2OSO]

I live on a street used heavily by folks going to/from work every day. The speed limit is 40 but I'd wager my cul de nutsac that the average speed is 55 or so. Point I'm trying to make is that people don't want their kids to get run over which is at least some of what gave rise to the cul de sac mentality.

[A.J.]

Yes, and nowadays they would both stand there and stare you down while they slowly took 5 minutes to get out of your way. Oh, how I dreamed about gunning the gas and seeing the look on their faces as I took them all down.

I know what you mean Missy. If only their nannies and au pairs would raise them the same way as we were.

Yet another reason I hate children.

[angrymissy]

I live on a street used heavily by folks going to/from work every day. The speed limit is 40 but I'd wager my cul de nutsac that the average speed is 55 or so. Point I'm trying to make is that people don't want their kids to get run over which is at least some of what gave rise to the cul de sac mentality.

If you live on a road where the speed limit is 40, kids shouldn't be playing in said road at all.

[TripleSkeet]

Also, when I was a kid, we rode our bikes and shit in the street, but we wouldn't DARE do it like we fucking owned the street, and if cars came, we were immediately out of their way before they were even close.


This. Although I have to say when I drive around my neighborhood in South Jersey, or even my old neighborhood in South Philly this is still the norm. Ive never had kids just stand there and stare at my car while Im waiting for them to move. Im pretty sure if they did I would just step on the gas and watch the tears come down their faces as I ran over their hockey nets or skateboards.

[angrymissy]

This. Although I have to say when I drive around my neighborhood in South Jersey, or even my old neighborhood in South Philly this is still the norm. Ive never had kids just stand there and stare at my car while Im waiting for them to move. Im pretty sure if they did I would just step on the gas and watch the tears come down their faces as I ran over their hockey nets or skateboards.

I haven't really seen this anywhere else but Long Island for now. It definitely doesn't happen when I'm visiting home in Westchester.

[KC2OSO]

If you live on a road where the speed limit is 40, kids shouldn't be playing in said road at all.
Oh they don't play out front for the most part. My son (12) rides a bike around and that gets me worried.

The point I was trying to make was about cul de sac mentality. People insist on living like this. I never could. The fact that people drive fast is a given.

[NewYorkDragons80]

This is what I'm calling the attitudes of upper middle class people who live in communities of "McMansions" and most of the roads end in cul de sacs. I can't STAND these people! They raise their children to believe that the street is their playground, and cars are on obtrusion.

You never played in the street as a kid?

What upsets me about your view is that you want the suburban concept of a car-centric society while abhoring the equally if not more suburban concept of cul-de-sacs.

[PapaBear]

You never played in the street as a kid?

What upsets me about your view is that you want the suburban concept of a car-centric society while abhoring the equally if not more suburban concept of cul-de-sacs.
Yes. Of course I played in the street as a kid. And when a car came, we got the fuck out of the way! We knew to do it, because if we didn't, we'd get screamed at by the driver AND our parents. That's the whole point I was making in the first place!

[torker]

I grew up playing everything, football, stickball, hockey, tennis, riding bikes, soccer
on the street I lived on, which was a cross street. Cars came and we moved.
You've never really scored a touchdown until you've run into a car making the catch.

[Furtherman]

Yes. Of course I played in the street as a kid. And when a car came, we got the fuck out of the way! We knew to do it, because if we didn't, we'd get screamed at by the driver AND our parents. That's the whole point I was making in the first place!

And that's the way it should be.

[RhinoinMN]

And that's the way it should be.


And that is the way it is here. I've never seen kids act the way pb and missy are talking about. I also live in a different part of the country.

[razorboy]

I also live in a different part of the country.

Minnesota is part of the country in name only.

[sailor]

how cul-de-sacs are killing your community (http://www.infrastructurist.com/2010/05/07/how-cul-de-sacs-are-killing-your-community/)

they mention the VA ban and delays in emergency vehicle response time.

[PapaBear]

Cool find, Sailor.

[sailor]

i randomly found that sight looking for info on the proposed chinese straddling bus. it's got some pretty interesting stuff in general.

[CaptainBlowhole]

Meanwhile, people that LIVE on cul-de-sac's do this:

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[CaptainBlowhole]

The Scourge of cul-de-sac's


http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2010/8/11/50%20Product%20of%20Suburbia_thumb.jpg

[spoon]

Meanwhile, people that LIVE on cul-de-sac's do this:

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what the fuck was that music coming from the car? Video game and ring tone classics?

At least he didn't run that stop sign! :lol: