Supreme Court rules 2nd Amendment rights apply across US

[StanUpshaw]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OJcWV2Bt6IM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OJcWV2Bt6IM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Guns.

http://imgur.com/Hwpz4.jpg
http://imgur.com/KnKSq.jpg

Now that that's out of the way, anyone have anything new to add?

Go Constitution?

[KnoxHarrington]

This is why I laughed at the hayseeds that ran out to stock up on guns after Obama got elected. There doesn't seem to be any political will to extend gun control -- the Obama administration has not made it any sort of priority. And it's clear from this the courts are stacked in a strongly pro-2nd Amendment way.

But yet, all those rubes ran out to get guns because Sekrit Muslin Socialist Barack Hussein Fartbama was going to take their guns away. There are men sitting around conference tables at gun manufacturers laughing their ass off right now.

[Kevin]

This is why I laughed at the hayseeds that ran out to stock up on guns after Obama got elected. There doesn't seem to be any political will to extend gun control -- the Obama administration has not made it any sort of priority. And it's clear from this the courts are stacked in a strongly pro-2nd Amendment way.

But yet, all those rubes ran out to get guns because Sekrit Muslin Socialist Barack Hussein Fartbama was going to take their guns away. There are men sitting around conference tables at gun manufacturers laughing their ass off right now.



But Dude! How can this be??? Fox News has been saying it for a year and a half now.

[StanUpshaw]

I think the fact that four justices are willing to say that the constitution is optional is actually pretty shocking.

[tanless1]

Knox - that's was a VERY close vote
at 5 - 4.
Shaw is right to call that "shocking"

[tanless1]

Also, the obama admin did take steps. Remember when they orderd all spent military brass, destroyed ? That was not attempt to recycle, is was an assult on the civilian supply......can't shoot the weapon if you've got no bullets.

[Syd]

I think the fact that four justices are willing to say that the constitution is optional is actually pretty shocking.

In a wacky coincidence, the four justices were willing to say that the federal government does not maintain supreme authority over states with regards to the 2nd amendment.

The victory for guns was also a victory for maintaining the strength of the Republic. So, that could have some funny ramifications in the future. Plus the 14th was used pretty heavily in the opinion so if anyone was hoping for some serious anti-illegal immigration stuff in the future there is some significant ammo behind that, especially in the privileges and immunities section.

It's a pretty good ruling throughout, a harsh strike against libertarianism that shows once again the country when in the right direction after the Shays' Rebellion. Of course it's just going to come down to an orgy about gun ownership by the time the media dissects it but eh, that is what sells.

[booster11373]

Also, the obama admin did take steps. Remember when they orderd all spent military brass, destroyed ? That was not attempt to recycle, is was an assult on the civilian supply......can't shoot the weapon if you've got no bullets.

I love to see some documentation this claim please

[tanless1]

It was early in the admin, imsure you can find somthing over at the nra.

[SinA]

2nd Amendment - A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The nouns are written in order of importance: Militia, State, People, Arms.

Essentially, the second amendment protects a State's right to organize a militia (ex: The Delaware Guard) to maintain peace within it's borders. It's been severely stretched by the NRA and right-wingnuts to allow people a lit less stable than Anthony Cumia to own assault rifles. In my state (TN) they just decided it was OK to allow guns in bars.

[tanless1]

Keep dream'n s&a, be sure to use wingnut as much as possible.....because the iterest of the right could not posibly coinside with the left.....or could it ?

[tanless1]

Let's use the cigarette as an example. First it was restraunts. Once they got that past, they went for open air dining....then parks....can't a man enjoy a cigar anymore ? Look at the taxes.
The point is that the nra has not exagerated, the gov likes to take away your right incremently......stop them before they get started is hardly an exageration

[tanless1]

Remind me - what's the difference between an assult rifle, and a semi automatic rifle ?

[tanless1]

Re Ten. carry in bar- aren't there some heavy alcohol restriction listed in that law ?
I'm not saying good or bad - just that you ommited some pertinent verbage

[SinA]

Keep dream'n s&a, be sure to use wingnut as much as possible.....because the iterest of the right could not posibly coinside with the left.....or could it ?

Let's use the cigarette as an example. First it was restraunts. Once they got that past, they went for open air dining....then parks....can't a man enjoy a cigar anymore ? Look at the taxes.
The point is that the nra has not exagerated, the gov likes to take away your right incremently......stop them before they get started is hardly an exageration

Remind me - what's the difference between an assult rifle, and a semi automatic rifle ?

Re Ten. carry in bar- aren't there some heavy alcohol restriction listed in that law ?
I'm not saying good or bad - just that you ommited some pertinent verbage


whoaaa, 4 posts in a row? pump the brakes!
you're like a semi-automatic poster.

[tanless1]

Raw hide sir, phone poster- employs differnt stratagies.

[tanless1]

...and less than acurate spelling, I've got a permit.

[Syd]

Let's use the cigarette as an example. First it was restraunts. Once they got that past, they went for open air dining....then parks....can't a man enjoy a cigar anymore ? Look at the taxes.
The point is that the nra has not exagerated, the gov likes to take away your right incremently......stop them before they get started is hardly an exageration

The NRA exaggerates the problem because it makes them a lot of money. They used the fear of a black president to cause gun sales to explode. They're as indefensible as Jesse "forgot to yell duck" Jackson or Al Sharpton. Create conflict, profit. That is the only thing any of them do. If they had any interest in gun rights they've have forced this as a civil rights issue in the SCOTUS. Instead they didn't and now there are loopholes for all sorts of restrictions to be placed on gun ownership. Good thing the NRA is around to collect money to fight those restrictions, eh?

[Syd]

It was early in the admin, imsure you can find somthing over at the nra.

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2009/03/18/dod-upon-further-review-spent-military-brass-will-be-sold/


Looks like someone fucked up and called the spent brass sensitive items, people thought it'd be a good way to cause a spike in ammo sales and they ran with it. Cooler heads prevailed and, you know, tried to find out what the issue was.

[epo]

Raw hide sir, phone poster- employs differnt stratagies.

...and less than acurate spelling, I've got a permit.

Your thread dominating style of posting

[epo]

hurts my brain.

[tanless1]

Thanks Epo. , only intended on posting twice.

[brettmojo]

This is why I laughed at the hayseeds that ran out to stock up on guns after Obama got elected. There doesn't seem to be any political will to extend gun control -- the Obama administration has not made it any sort of priority. And it's clear from this the courts are stacked in a strongly pro-2nd Amendment way.

But yet, all those rubes ran out to get guns because Sekrit Muslin Socialist Barack Hussein Fartbama was going to take their guns away. There are men sitting around conference tables at gun manufacturers laughing their ass off right now.
I'm more compelled to run out and get a gun now since all those dingbats ran out and armed themselves.

[tanless1]

Its the #2 amendment. Seeking to create a civil right .... its already a constitional right.
That's like owning a telivision and then requesting permision from the city councile if you have the right to turn it on.

[SinA]

I'm more compelled to run out and get a gun now since all those dingbats ran out and armed themselves.

ironic.
i feel the same way, actually.

[NewYorkDragons80]

2nd Amendment - A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The nouns are written in order of importance: Militia, State, People, Arms.

Essentially, the second amendment protects a State's right to organize a militia (ex: The Delaware Guard) to maintain peace within it's borders. It's been severely stretched by the NRA and right-wingnuts to allow people a lit less stable than Anthony Cumia to own assault rifles. In my state (TN) they just decided it was OK to allow guns in bars.

militia [comma] ... people. The Constitution distinguishes them as 2 distinct groups. One group is responsible for maintaining order, while the other is the oh-so important people from whom governmental power is derived.

[Willmore]

Personally, I agree that what the constitution says is that the people have a right to keep and bear arms, no argument from me there. Where I have a problem is when a country is governed by a doctrinal document that is over 200 years old, is racist, discriminatory, and incredibly outdated.

[Syd]

militia [comma] ... people. The Constitution distinguishes them as 2 distinct groups. One group is responsible for maintaining order, while the other is the oh-so important people from whom governmental power is derived.

The 2nd amendment is kind of goofy. The usefulness of irregulars/militia during the Revolution was questionable. No one really respected them and they were little more than fodder for professional infantry or as pestering forces. Why they were explicitly given the right to exist after such unremarkable performance is interesting. It could have been a handout to increase the populist appeal or the record of the militia had been whitewashed through romanticism.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Personally, I agree that what the constitution says is that the people have a right to keep and bear arms, no argument from me there. Where I have a problem is when a country is governed by a doctrinal document that is over 200 years old, is racist, discriminatory, and incredibly outdated.

Laws can be repealed, thats why the founders enabled it to have an ammendment process. The 23rd repealed prohibition. Now if the 16th ammendment could be repealed. :wallbash:

[Willmore]

Laws can be repealed, thats why the founders enabled it to have an ammendment process. The 23rd repealed prohibition. Now if the 16th ammendment could be repealed. :wallbash:

By a 2/3 majority. Abolition took 100 years, desegregation another 100. The American form of government is not flexible enough to keep up with the changes in society, nor is it progressive enough to shape society instead of simply rubber-stamping socially acceptable norms with a 50-year lag.

[brettmojo]

Personally, I agree that what the constitution says is that the people have a right to keep and bear arms, no argument from me there. Where I have a problem is when a country is governed by a doctrinal document that is over 200 years old, is racist, discriminatory, and incredibly outdated.<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://evilchili.com/flash/flowplayer-3.1.5.swf?0.5165438428911129" id="flowplayerdiv_api" width="620" height="365">

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_0yn23wXtbw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_0yn23wXtbw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://evilchili.com/flash/flowplayer-3.1.5.swf?0.5165438428911129" id="flowplayerdiv_api" width="620" height="365"></object><object width="480" height="385">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_0yn23wXtbw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object></object>

[Chigworthy]

The nouns are written in order of importance: Militia, State, People, Arms.


I've never heard of this compositional device. Is every noun in the entire constitution wriitten in order of imnportance, or is it just in the 2nd amndmnt? I'd have even more respect for the authors if they had to make a list of every noun in the document, prioritize them, then rewrite the thing based around that order.


I'll try it with my last paragraph:

Device
Noun
Constitution
It
2nd Amendment
Respect
Authors
List
Noun
Document
Thing


In the entire constitution, is it just the 2nd amendment in which the authors, whom I would respect more if what I am about to postulate were true, used the compositional device, of which I have not heard of, and which consists of taking every noun in the thing and ordering them in order of importance, then rewriting the thing around that order?

It's harder than I thought, because you end up using new nouns to shoehorn the thing together based on the order of importance of the nouns. And when two different nouns refer to the same thing, you have to make a judgement call as to which one you like better.

[tanless1]

Re DOD letter : the president wanted to let the brass issue stand, until an uproar from the american people b rought the issue to the forefront. To describe it as a simple misunderstanding, or typo....would be incorrect.

[tanless1]

There is nothing wrong with the constitution, its was designed to keep goverment from medling in the lives of the people by large.

[Syd]

There is nothing wrong with the constitution, its was designed to keep goverment from medling in the lives of the people by large.

What about meddling in the life of 3/5ths of a person?

[Syd]

Or meddling in the lives of indigenous people?

[badmonkey]

What about meddling in the life of 3/5ths of a person?

3/5ths of a population count (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise), but you probably already knew that.

[tanless1]

Really Syd ? Is that where you are, or want to go ?
We didn't start the slave trade,we ended it. Does that make america evil ? Is that what this is all about ?
Imagine the blood lines that would of been eradicated had it not been for the slave trade. Tribesman would of been forced to "extinguish the conqured", or risk uprise and and eventualy be overthrown. They lost their names, and their familys, and history. They did receive the slimist chance of surviving, is that better or worse than death ?

[tanless1]

Should we need the 15th ammendment ? Absolutley not.
All men ARE created equal.

[tanless1]

Or meddling in the lives of indigenous people?

...is your solution to give it back ? "Give them the wealth " . Stop kick'n yourself Syd, its not your fault. If you have a special cause you'd like to work towards, do it. Develop. A plan that does not involve govt, and do it. Start a clinic, develop a employment angencie that caters to native americans. Develop an educational fund....you can do it, I believe in you.

I have a couple / few things I'm working on....and only one of them may seek a grant, that would cut the benifactors donation in half.

Goverment is not the answer, buddy. You and me, we are the answer.

[Syd]

What is done is done, my point was that the Constitution has its flaws. It isn't some divine document, it was written by people who took their best stab at things. It took them two tries to even form a government, after all.

[Syd]

Should we need the 15th ammendment ? Absolutley not.
All men ARE created equal.

We need the 14th and 15th because not even the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence believed all men were created equal. Even when one of the true patriots of the American Revolution offered to pay for Jefferson to release his slaves, he reneged on the deal.

I beg Mr. Jefferson that in the case I should die without will or testament he should bye out of my money So many Negroes and free them, that the restante [remaining] sums should be Sufficient to give them aducation and provide for thier maintenance, that . . . each should know before, the duty of a Cytyzen in the free Government, that he must defend his country against foreign as well as internal Enemies who would wish to change the Constitution for the worst to inslave them by degree afterwards, to have good and human heart Sensible for the Sufferings of others, each must be married and have 100 Ackres of land, wyth instruments, Cattle for tillage and know how to manage and Gouvern it well as well to know [how to] behave to neyboughs [neighbors], always wyth Kindnes and ready to help them . . . . T. Kościuszko.

didn't see this reply earlier, always a good way to throw ol' Teddy Ks name out there to point out how decidedly mortal and flawed Jefferson was.

[underdog]

It was early in the admin, imsure you can find somthing over at the nra.

This is the best way to win an argument; make the other person do all the research.

[PapaBear]

This is why I laughed at the hayseeds that ran out to stock up on guns after Obama got elected. There doesn't seem to be any political will to extend gun control -- the Obama administration has not made it any sort of priority. And it's clear from this the courts are stacked in a strongly pro-2nd Amendment way.

But yet, all those rubes ran out to get guns because Sekrit Muslin Socialist Barack Hussein Fartbama was going to take their guns away. There are men sitting around conference tables at gun manufacturers laughing their ass off right now.
The gun stores REALLY made out good during that whole gun run. As far as I know, the ONLY gun law Obama has signed was the one ALLOWING guns in National Parks. There was a gun rally a few months ago in DC. They all brought guns to the rally. The rally which was held in a National Park. A place where they were legally able to carry guns, because Obama signed a law saying they could.

[Willmore]

Really Syd ? Is that where you are, or want to go ?
We didn't start the slave trade,we ended it. Does that make america evil ? Is that what this is all about ?
Imagine the blood lines that would of been eradicated had it not been for the slave trade. Tribesman would of been forced to "extinguish the conqured", or risk uprise and and eventualy be overthrown. They lost their names, and their familys, and history. They did receive the slimist chance of surviving, is that better or worse than death ?

America didn't end the slave trade. The British Empire ended slave trade with their Slave Trade Act of 1807, they then ended slavery in 1833. The United States was the last civilized country in the world to end it. Even Russia emancipated all the serfs in 1861. And Russia didn't have a couple million slaves like the US, the MAJORITY of the population were serfs, some 20+ million.

[Serpico1103]

Further erosion of state's rights.
This ruling is amazing, since it seems like every gun owner "knew" the 2nd A applied to the states and local governments already.

[Willmore]

Further erosion of state's rights.
This ruling is amazing, since it seems like every gun owner "knew" the 2nd A applied to the states and local governments already.

Fuck state's rights. I don't even pay state taxes.

[Serpico1103]

Fuck state's rights. I don't even pay state taxes.

I am onboard. Just another step towards world government. I have my stormtrooper outfit ready.
I hope we crush those pesky rebels.

[Willmore]

I am onboard. Just another step towards world government. I have my stormtrooper outfit ready.
I hope we crush those pesky rebels.

Psst, look at my location. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax)

[Dude!]

America didn't end the slave trade. The British Empire ended slave trade with their Slave Trade Act of 1807, they then ended slavery in 1833. The United States was the last civilized country in the world to end it. Even Russia emancipated all the serfs in 1861. And Russia didn't have a couple million slaves like the US, the MAJORITY of the population were serfs, some 20+ million.

apples to oranges...
the russian serfs
were white

they never should have been
enslaved to begin with

[Willmore]

apples to oranges...
the russian serfs
were white

they never should have been
enslaved to begin with

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As opposed to the black slaves who SHOULD have been?

There were slaves/serfs/indentured servants since the dawn of civilization, eventually it became socially unacceptable, in the beginning of the 19th century to be exact. The fact is that your idealized views and preconceptions of the United States doesn't allow you to comprehend that most of the country was a backwards society living by middle-age laws and societal norms. It wasn't until the beginning of the 20th century that the US joined the modern age on par with the rest of Western Civilization.

[hanso]

Let's just dupe every law out there. No big government. Yeah "right".

[Serpico1103]

Psst, look at my location. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax)

Louder!

[tanless1]

America didn't end the slave trade. The British Empire ended slave trade with their Slave Trade Act of 1807, they then ended slavery in 1833. The United States was the last civilized country in the world to end it. Even Russia emancipated all the serfs in 1861. And Russia didn't have a couple million slaves like the US, the MAJORITY of the population were serfs, some 20+ million.

...and who was the last to out law slavery ? Was iit Africa ?...but then, it never really ended there, those peaceful muslims still believe its there god given right......per the UN / unicef
* yes, the un should be dismanteld, reassembled to a charitable orginization that, only supplies non-monetary aide - but we have slipped far off topic

[booster11373]

...and who was the last to out law slavery ? Was iit Africa ?...but then, it never really ended there, those peaceful muslims still believe its there god given right......per the UN / unicef
* yes, the un should be dismanteld, reassembled to a charitable orginization that, only supplies non-monetary aide - but we have slipped far off topic

Africa is a continent and made up of 47 different countries. Also not all Africans are Muslim the majority are in fact Christian

[Serpico1103]

...and who was the last to out law slavery ? Was iit Africa ?...but then, it never really ended there, those peaceful muslims still believe its there god given right......per the UN / unicef
* yes, the un should be dismanteld, reassembled to a charitable orginization that, only supplies non-monetary aide - but we have slipped far off topic

I should tell all those people chanting "We're number 1", that the new chant should be, "We're better than Africa!"

[tanless1]

Africa is a continent and made up of 47 different countries. Also not all Africans are Muslim the majority are in fact Christian

So, your saying that once again, muslims believe its ok to enslave and kill christians ?

[booster11373]

Africa is a continent and made up of 47 different countries. Also not all Africans are Muslim the majority are in fact Christian

So, your saying that once again, muslims believe its ok to enslave and kill christians ?

???

[Rhah]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/2458402,new-chicago-gun-law-passed-070210.article

[Willmore]

So, your saying that once again, muslims believe its ok to enslave and kill christians ?

Remind me never to visit Idaho, on the off-chance of meeting you.

[tanless1]

Thats not my story, thats news from west africa corilated with boosters views.

[booster11373]

Thats not my story, thats news from west africa corilated with boosters views.

I stated none of my personals views merely facts.

[tanless1]

Explain it to willmore, I believe you.

[Willmore]

Explain it to willmore, I believe you.

I need no explanation. I am well aware of an abundance of crazy or ignorant people in this world. What I do have a problem with, is when you summarily generalize a group of 1.5 billion people. What happens in West Africa isn't a problem with Islam, it's a problem with tribal societies that are stuck in the middle ages.

[Dude!]

What happens in West Africa isn't a problem with Islam, it's a problem with tribal societies that are stuck in the middle ages.

tribal societies stuck
in the middle ages?

wow...you may as well
have said "spear-chuckers"

racist

[Syd]

I need no explanation. I am well aware of an abundance of crazy or ignorant people in this world. What I do have a problem with, is when you summarily generalize a group of 1.5 billion people. What happens in West Africa isn't a problem with Islam, it's a problem with tribal societies that are stuck in the middle ages.

No it's a problem with post-colonialism and shitloads of mineral deposits.

[tanless1]

What happens in West Africa isn't a problem with Islam, it's a problem with tribal societies that are stuck in the middle ages.

....it funny how islam seems to be involved with most of the issues to day, including african oil, west african slavery.....Iran hanging the 16 yearold rape victim, irans upcoming trial for the adulturous women(stoning). Your right, its all just tribal bullshit.

[tanless1]

It seems this thread has diverted from original topic, perhaps another thread should be opend ?

[Willmore]

....it funny how islam seems to be involved with most of the issues to day, including african oil, west african slavery.....Iran hanging the 16 yearold rape victim, irans upcoming trial for the adulturous women(stoning). Your right, its all just tribal bullshit.

Yeah, and Christianity had that whole KKK, Nazis, Colonialism, Exploitative Corporatism etc. etc. stuff.

All religion is bullshit, but mostly harmless. However, there are extremists in all religions. In Islam, unfortunately, some of the extremists actually managed to win elections and institute sharia law. Now, imagine this country under a christian conservative government, would it be so much nicer?

[A.J.]

Now, imagine this country under a christian conservative government, would it be so much nicer?

We're coming dangerously close to that.

[brettmojo]

Yeah, and Christianity had that whole KKK, Nazis, Colonialism, Exploitative Corporatism etc. etc. stuff.

All religion is bullshit, but mostly harmless. However, there are extremists in all religions. In Islam, unfortunately, some of the extremists actually managed to win elections and institute sharia law. Now, imagine this country under a christian conservative government, would it be so much nicer?
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/drOdRwD1JF0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/drOdRwD1JF0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[scottinnj]

But yet, all those rubes ran out to get guns because Sekrit Muslin Socialist Barack Hussein Fartbama was going to take their guns away. There are men sitting around conference tables at gun manufacturers laughing their ass off right now.


Best. Stimulus Package. Ever.

[scottinnj]

It seems this thread has diverted from original topic, perhaps another thread should be opend ?

Forget it, they're on a roll.