Demcrats Bought and Sold at twice the rate of Republicans

[Ogre]

Kinda blows holes in the Liberal Lie that ONLY the Republicans are bought and sold by Lobbyists. The same Lobbyists that Lord Obama vowed would not have a place in Washington. Remember ? 7 of the top 10 lobbyists are Unions that use their cash to buy Democrats, but when parts of McCain-Fiengold were struck down by the Supreme Court the Left went nuts...WHY? Because until that decision Democrats had a Monopoly on getting campaign cash for re-election.

Wall Street is owned by the Republicans ? On the contrary Goldman-Sachs (insert fake Obama outrage over bonuses here) comes into the top 10 with a 2:1 donation rate to DEMOCRATS.

Face it America, the Liberal Left has thru the Unions has hijacked the Democratic Party.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?type=A


Rank Organization Total '89-'09 Dem % Repub %


1 AT&T Inc $44,228,138 49% 50%
2 AFSCME $41,945,511 98% 0%
3 National Assn of Realtors $35,643,323 56% 42%
4 IBEW $31,544,407 98% 1%
5 Goldman Sachs $31,544,275 68% 31%
6 American Assn for Justice $31,465,429 95% 4%
7 National Education Assn $30,162,867 88% 11%
8 Laborers Union $28,993,900 95% 4%
9 Teamsters Union $27,992,624 98% 1%
10 SEIU $27,933,732 100% 0%
11 Carpenters Joiners Union $27,768,183 88% 11%
12 Citigroup Inc $27,150,883 48% 51%
13 CWA $27,047,896 96% 2%
14 American Medical Assn $26,307,905 54% 45%
15 Ameri Fed of Teachers $26,285,941 100% 0%
16 UAW $25,775,002 99% 0%
17 Machinists Aero W Union $25,205,277 98% 1%
18 National Auto Dealers Assn $24,409,058 57% 42%
19 United Parcel Service $24,232,224 45% 54%
20 UFCW $24,216,183 99% 0%

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Some of the wealthiest people in Congress are Dems. Pelosi, Boxer, Kerry,Rockefeller,Feinstein, Lautenberg, Kennedy (the one from R.I.) to name a few

[Crispy123]

I don't know what liberal has said that lobbyist influence is only a Republican problem but it is pretty well known that Democrats are marks for unions and Republicans are in the pocket of corporations.

[Ogre]

So where is the big Corporate Money in this list then? If it is such a hideous influence on our Governance why does just the Union influence show up when facts are researched instead of Liberal Hyperbole ?

Liberal Lies perpetuated by a Liberal Media.

Come On Serpico..I am waiting...Big Evil Corporations with their deep pockets buying lawmakers in D.C......Come on keep repeating that lie while overlooking the Democrats GREED.

[EddieMoscone]

So where is the big Corporate Money in this list then? If it is such a hideous influence on our Governance why does just the Union influence show up when facts are researched instead of Liberal Hyperbole ?

Liberal Lies perpetuated by a Liberal Media.

I think the corporations reach has more to do with people who sit in important positions in government who used to hold positions with companies that they are now supposed to regulate. Are you going to be fair when regulating a company who is your former (and possibly future) employer?

[Ogre]

Well I think if you are looking for the Poster Child for a Revolving door politician/ turned lobbyist look no further than Tom Daschle ...ooops that's a Democrat.

If you are looking for a CEO turned Politician...Keep Looking

Corporations create wealth...Government takes wealth.

Nice try in changing the argument.

[Serpico1103]

"Liberals say only republicans get donations." Strawman!

[StanUpshaw]

Does this mean democrats are more greedy, or that republicans can get bought off easier?

[foodcourtdruide]

Kinda blows holes in the Liberal Lie that ONLY the Republicans are bought and sold by Lobbyists. The same Lobbyists that Lord Obama vowed would not have a place in Washington. Remember ? 7 of the top 10 lobbyists are Unions that use their cash to buy Democrats, but when parts of McCain-Fiengold were struck down by the Supreme Court the Left went nuts...WHY? Because until that decision Democrats had a Monopoly on getting campaign cash for re-election.

Wall Street is owned by the Republicans ? On the contrary Goldman-Sachs (insert fake Obama outrage over bonuses here) comes into the top 10 with a 2:1 donation rate to DEMOCRATS.

Face it America, the Liberal Left has thru the Unions has hijacked the Democratic Party.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?type=A


Rank Organization Total '89-'09 Dem % Repub %


1 AT&T Inc $44,228,138 49% 50%
2 AFSCME $41,945,511 98% 0%
3 National Assn of Realtors $35,643,323 56% 42%
4 IBEW $31,544,407 98% 1%
5 Goldman Sachs $31,544,275 68% 31%
6 American Assn for Justice $31,465,429 95% 4%
7 National Education Assn $30,162,867 88% 11%
8 Laborers Union $28,993,900 95% 4%
9 Teamsters Union $27,992,624 98% 1%
10 SEIU $27,933,732 100% 0%
11 Carpenters Joiners Union $27,768,183 88% 11%
12 Citigroup Inc $27,150,883 48% 51%
13 CWA $27,047,896 96% 2%
14 American Medical Assn $26,307,905 54% 45%
15 Ameri Fed of Teachers $26,285,941 100% 0%
16 UAW $25,775,002 99% 0%
17 Machinists Aero W Union $25,205,277 98% 1%
18 National Auto Dealers Assn $24,409,058 57% 42%
19 United Parcel Service $24,232,224 45% 54%
20 UFCW $24,216,183 99% 0%

Methodology:
Direct "soft money" contributions from the organization’s treasury. Under federal law, contributions from the treasuries of corporations, unions or other organizations may only be given to the parties’ "non-federal" (soft money) committees.

Contributions from the organization’s political action committee, or PAC. The money for these comes from individuals who work for or are connected with the organization, and it’s given on behalf of the organization.

Contributions by individuals connected with the organization. This includes employees, officers, and members of their immediate families.

Wouldn't the first two be what people reference when they refer to lobbyist influence in government? I was a little taken back by how much money labor unions would have spent in government (as opposed to say a company like pfizer. Partisan politics aside, which would have more capital to spend on something like this?), but when you factor in how much INDIVIDUALS in the labor unions would donate, wouldn't it make sense they they give so much to one political party? I'd love to see these numbers without the third criteria. I'd suspect they'd pretty much be equal with more money going to dems from unions, etc and more money going to rep's from nra, drug companies, etc.

Also, what liberal has ever said democrats aren't influenced by special interests?

[underdog]

Kinda blows holes in the Liberal Lie that ONLY the Republicans are bought and sold by Lobbyists.

The only people I see saying this are people like you.

It's amazing how many things republicans claim liberals say, yet I only hear republicans say it (like Obama is the messiah).

[underdog]

Also, what liberal has ever said democrats aren't influenced by special interests?

It's one of those things that the right thinks if they keep saying, everyone will believe.

[underdog]

Face it America, the Liberal Left has thru the Unions has hijacked the Democratic Party.

I'd rather have unions running a party than the religious.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I'd rather have unions running a party than the religious.

So. You just got through criticizing generalizations and hyperbole (I think).

Who are these “religious” you speak of?

[Crispy123]

If you are looking for a CEO turned Politician...Keep Looking



http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/books/blog/dick%20cheney.jpg

Well you got this guy and oh yeah that company was Haliburton

[tanless1]

It's one of those things that the right thinktes if they keep saying, everyone will believe.
Like "culture of corruption" ?.....I really don't care to participate, but couldn't resist...you bastards.

...

[tanless1]

...as personaly rewarding this style of posting may be, probably not the most productive tact.
We are all frustrated "all of us"....most the people are quick to slip into cramudgeoun form, myself included...

[Ogre]

Also, what liberal has ever said democrats aren't influenced by special interests?

The debate from the Liberal perspective has been framed that the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them, due to the obscene amount of cash they receive. blah blah blah Insurance lobby is keeping you sick and poor and the Republicans are in on it blah blah blah.

You Can not deny that was the argument. I heard it from ole PlasticFace Pelosi until I wanted to vomit. All the while acting as if she was Mother Theresa herself.

When in reality it is the Democrats that let there Governance be influenced by the Unions and the obscene amounts of cash that they use to buy off the Dems. All the while the Democrats act as if they are morally superior.

Why do you think Obama violated contract law,forced the PREFERRED bond holders into a buyout of 25 cents on the dollar in GM's bankruptcy and then magically coming out of bankruptcy 55% of the new GM was GIVEN to the UAW? The Unions OWN the Democrats.

[Ogre]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/books/blog/dick%20cheney.jpg

Well you got this guy and oh yeah that company was Haliburton

I will concede this one...and my what a flattering picture.

[tanless1]

Frankley, cheney and condeliza rice were the best part of that administration. I feel if bush had not been involved, we'd of had a solid team.... sure it's easy to. Sling arrows at cheney, but I believe he is an honest man , who only had the nations best interest at heart(no,not oil) as we are very capable of controling the price of oil from here by tapping our own,uncaping wells....forcing opec to compete......

[Crispy123]

The debate from the Liberal perspective has been framed that the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them, due to the obscene amount of cash they receive. blah blah blah Insurance lobby is keeping you sick and poor and the Republicans are in on it blah blah blah.

You Can not deny that was the argument. I heard it from ole PlasticFace Pelosi until I wanted to vomit. All the while acting as if she was Mother Theresa herself.

When in reality it is the Democrats that let there Governance be influenced by the Unions and the obscene amounts of cash that they use to buy off the Dems. All the while the Democrats act as if they are morally superior.

Why do you think Obama violated contract law. Forced the PREFERRED bond holders 25 cents on the dollar in GM's bankruptcy and then magically coming out of bankruptcy 55% of the new GM was GIVEN to the Unions. The Unions OWN the Democrats.

This isn't a "liberal" vs republican issue. It is a two party issue. The Democrats have taken a pro-union stance and are for government regulation to keep businesses in line.

Republicans have taken the stance that less regulation means business can profit - at the expense of the workers, consumers, environment, and that the bottom line is profits= more gooder.

The arguments today are that Republicns want less regulation so that Insurance companies can make more profit and drive down costs. Democrats say regulation and mandatory coverage will drive down prices.

With the corporate scandals going on over the last decade, I would love to hear how anyone could say lets trust the corporate board of directors to do the right thing and let them have free reign to do whatever they want. The recession we are in today are a direct result of the Republican stance on industry regulation.

[Ogre]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/books/blog/dick%20cheney.jpg

He is a Handsome Man is he not?

[tanless1]

I claim rebublican as I feel it would be a easier transition to liberterian from their claimed values. And liberterian lends itself to my style of solutions ( examples amply available in other posts) relying on the contitution and passing legislation to put people in positions to help themselvs and others, not feeding a monster that can not be sated....

[Dan 'Hampton]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/books/blog/dick%20cheney.jpg

Well you got this guy and oh yeah that company was Haliburton


I agree and I still blame Clinton for letting KBR and Haliburton get in on government bids. You're all fools if you don't see that no matter who you vote for they don't represent you.

[tanless1]

...and yes, I see that the state we are in
(onerous legislation) out of control govt is a direct result of republicans not doing the job they were sent to do. Or more accuratly, not existing in the core they claimed ( to protect and uphold the constitution).....

[Ogre]

This isn't a "liberal" vs republican issue. It is a two party issue. The Democrats have taken a pro-union stance and are for government regulation to keep businesses in line.

Republicans have taken the stance that less regulation means business can profit - at the expense of the workers, consumers, environment, and that the bottom line is profits= more gooder.

The arguments today are that Republicns want less regulation so that Insurance companies can make more profit and drive down costs. Democrats say regulation and mandatory coverage will drive down prices.

With the corporate scandals going on over the last decade, I would love to hear how anyone could say lets trust the corporate board of directors to do the right thing and let them have free reign to do whatever they want. The recession we are in today are a direct result of the Republican stance on industry regulation.

I call Shenanigans. The reason we are here today is because of the forced deregulation of Sub Prime lending standards, by the Democrats so that people could get loans for homes, in reality, they could not afford.

Then the ability of Wall Street to package those mortgage backed securities (complete with the loans to otherwise unqualified homeowners) in these bundles thus becoming the toxic assets you heard so much from Mr. Timmy Giethner about.

BTW Giethner was in charge of the NY FED during this Wall Street debacle. Later to be Hank Paulson's wing man.

So today's mess solely of the Republican's making ...that dog don't hunt.

[tanless1]

.

[tanless1]

We are coming to a point however that we will need to dismantle what has been created by past sessions that was not constitional. Go through the bills decrontruct ( seperate the add ons that are
Not part of the actual function such as "student loans'in a health care bill)....

[SonOfSmeagol]

This isn't a "liberal" vs republican issue. It is a two party issue. The Democrats have taken a pro-union stance and are for government regulation to keep businesses in line.

Republicans have taken the stance that less regulation means business can profit - at the expense of the workers, consumers, environment, and that the bottom line is profits= more gooder.

The arguments today are that Republicns want less regulation so that Insurance companies can make more profit and drive down costs. Democrats say regulation and mandatory coverage will drive down prices.

With the corporate scandals going on over the last decade, I would love to hear how anyone could say lets trust the corporate board of directors to do the right thing and let them have free reign to do whatever they want. The recession we are in today are a direct result of the Republican stance on industry regulation.

That's a lot of stuff there! With the exception of the first para I think you would have a hard time producing evidence to actually back it up.

[tanless1]

...and get back to being americans again.
Id recomend working back to the 15th.
I have no issue with anchor babies IF we actually handle are borders.
Not everything will go nor stay, we do need to clean it up though. We do have to many laws, and we need to decriminalize many things and drasticaly reduce the ability for the feds to induce sin taxes.......

[tanless1]

We need to take back our country, and are parties ( both of them)....

[tanless1]

...the point to all this "seeeeee, your ass"s...noooooo, your ass's" or commonly referd to as " gotcha" will make it much more difficult for those your poking to realize the positions we are BOTH in, WE are in.
I think the citizens of both parties want the same thing. For the consitution to rule.....what powers are not provided for the feds in the constitution needs to be revoked, and they have helped themselves frequently over the decades, and the UN needs to be nulified to stricktley humanitarian brokerage, or dismanteld.
....just look at the global climate change fraud that was perpetrated for the express purpose of devloping a global tax,cap and trade...the same( an attempt to insert themselves into our economy....and global universal health care...similar again.
.....

[tanless1]

....throwing rocks however gratifying it may be, is not a solution, nor a favorable path to one.

[tanless1]

...and yes, john mccain is just as much a part of the problem as obama(maverick ,my ass)
SUBSTANCE not PERSONALITY

[tanless1]

...also, the unions do not rrepresent the worker. The unions NEED this health care legislation to cover the fraud they've perpetraded against the members for decades. Pro union no longer equals pro labor.

[underdog]

So. You just got through criticizing generalizations and hyperbole (I think).

I was?

Who are these “religious” you speak of?

All of them. But mainly the born agains and evangelicals.

Frankley, cheney and condeliza rice were the best part of that administration. I feel if bush had not been involved, we'd of had a solid team.... sure it's easy to. Sling arrows at cheney, but I believe he is an honest man , who only had the nations best interest at heart(no,not oil) as we are very capable of controling the price of oil from here by tapping our own,uncaping wells....forcing opec to compete......

:surrender:

This post has to be sarcasm, right?

[tanless1]

Noooo, not sarcasm...differnt point of view.

[tanless1]

You can go ahead and bash rumsfeld as inadequit, id buy that.

[underdog]

Noooo, not sarcasm...differnt point of view.

Then that's all I need to know about your views.

[SonOfSmeagol]

All of them. But mainly the born agains and evangelicals.

So the born agains and evangelicals run the Rep party, do they?

[underdog]

So the born agains and evangelicals run the Rep party, do they?

I wouldn't go as far as run, but pretty damn close.

[tanless1]

...I'm not going to argue cheney rice with you. It makes no sense. And if you prefer to use the 2 as a shield to avoid other issues.... then your simple too.
But I don't believe that about you undog, I do believe your proving my point though...your willingness to take/use cheney and rice to avoid recognizing that you agree with the bulk of what I've typed.....you can do better underdog.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I wouldn't go as far as run, but pretty damn close.

So, that would be about 20 of the Rep Governors, about 35 of the Reps in the US Senate, and about 190 of the Reps in the US House. Not to mention the RNC. That's like 250 total "power players". Since you are so sure of this phenomenon, can you name twenty out of the 250 who fall into this unfortunate category of being born again/evangelical? (without looking it up of course).

(not sure why it's necessarily a bad thing - I guess that's another topic. As are the similar numbers for Dems).

[underdog]

So, that would be about 20 of the Rep Governors, about 35 of the Reps in the US Senate, and about 190 of the Reps in the US House. Not to mention the RNC. That's like 250 total "power players". Since you are so sure of this phenomenon, can you name twenty out of the 250 who fall into this unfortunate category of being born again/evangelical? (without looking it up of course).

(not sure why it's necessarily a bad thing - I guess that's another topic. As are the similar numbers for Dems).

What?

Are you denying that the religious right has a heavy hand in the republican party?

[SonOfSmeagol]

What?

Are you denying that the religious right has a heavy hand in the republican party?

For some reason, you made a specific assertion about born agains/evangelicals running the party. I wasn't aware of that so I simply asked you to prove it with some real evidence. If you can't do it, no big deal.

[tanless1]

Your getting played again underdog. You've accepted the label of religous right , and equated it to wrong therfore opposite of what you believe ,ergo you must be left.
....and this conclusion has served to pigeon hole yourself.
What is it to be " religous right " ? What does everyone of them think and how is it opposite of what you believe, and in doing so have presumed that they must be against you, and everything you stand for.
....ask yourself ,what do you stand for, and how is what they believe infringe upon the life you choose to lead.
...ask yourself , were the questions you asked loaded, to evoke a desired response to re-enforce a preconception ?

[epo]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/books/blog/dick%20cheney.jpg

Well you got this guy and oh yeah that company was Haliburton

Mitt agrees with your selection!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jpVm59Q7Xb0/R5lJgZAM2rI/AAAAAAAABok/5YI6oX_XICI/s320/willard_mitt_romney0504.jpg

[underdog]

For some reason, you made a specific assertion about born agains/evangelicals running the party. I wasn't aware of that so I simply asked you to prove it with some real evidence. If you can't do it, no big deal.

I meant running the party in the same way that someone claimed the unions were running the democratic party.

[Melk]

The debate from the Liberal perspective has been framed that the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them, due to the obscene amount of cash they receive. blah blah blah Insurance lobby is keeping you sick and poor and the Republicans are in on it blah blah blah.
You could easily find people making these claims in the same way you can find people who still believe Obama was born in Kenya. The previous administration received a lot of criticism because the previous VP was the head of a corporation that was and is currently profiting from our wars in the middle east because of outsource agreements.

There are people trying to reduce the influence of lobbyists in the political process. Some of these people are currently enjoying the benefits of lobbyist money, but they are in both parties.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Republicans and Democrats in political power have more in common with each other most people you know. From my own experience working in retail, education and construction I cannot imagine any group of people free of sin, illicit dealings and occasional double-talk.

[A.J.]

I'd rather have unions running a party than the religious.

But the Mafia is Catholic.

[TripleSkeet]

Im still trying to figure out the point of this thread.

Was it that Democrats are corrupt politicians? If so, well youre not really surprising anyone.

Is it to say that Dems are corrupt and Republicans arent, they are just painted that way? Because that may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.

Are people really so blind to see that both sides are equally crooked? Im so tired of the "We are better then them" bullshit. Politicians are all corrupt. Republicans fucked this country the last 8 years, so now the country is giving the Dems their shot. If they fuck this country bad enough the Republicans will get their shot again. But please stop pounding your chest, both of your teams are nothing but scumbags and you are fucking stupid sheep if you believe they truly have your best interests at heart.

[Ogre]

Im still trying to figure out the point of this thread.

Was it that Democrats are corrupt politicians? If so, well youre not really surprising anyone.

Is it to say that Dems are corrupt and Republicans arent, they are just painted that way? Because that may be the dumbest thing Ive ever heard.

Are people really so blind to see that both sides are equally crooked? Im so tired of the "We are better then them" bullshit. Politicians are all corrupt. Republicans fucked this country the last 8 years, so now the country is giving the Dems their shot. If they fuck this country bad enough the Republicans will get their shot again. But please stop pounding your chest, both of your teams are nothing but scumbags and you are fucking stupid sheep if you believe they truly have your best interests at heart.

Well technically the Democrats have been in control since 2006.

My point is that this Healhtcare debate was framed by the Democratic machine as Republicans on the take from Big Insurance, were trying to keep the poor sick and deny them their rights. All the while the Democrats backed by the Media constant propping up claimed some type of Moral Superiority in their efforts.

If the Democrats are looking for corruption and influence and buyoff then they look no further than the tips of their own noses.

The thread title states that both parties are bought and sold, just the Morally Superior Democrats with all of their wonderful ethics and "Moral and Intellectual superiority" are the FATTEST pigs in the trough.

You see your Emperor has no clothes.

[KnoxHarrington]

Well technically the Democrats have been in control since 2006.

My point is that this Healhtcare debate was framed by the Democratic machine as Republicans on the take from Big Insurance, were trying to keep the poor sick and deny them their rights. All the while the Democrats backed by the Media constant propping up claimed some type of Moral Superiority in their efforts.

If the Democrats are looking for corruption and influence and buyoff then they look no further than the tips of their own noses.

The thread title states that both parties are bought and sold, just the Morally Superior Democrats with all of their wonderful ethics and "Moral and Intellectual superiority" are the FATTEST pigs in the trough.

You see your Emperor has no clothes.

So you don't believe that opposition to the health care bill was mostly fueled by donations from the health care industry?

[underdog]

But the Mafia is Catholic.

But everyone know Catholicism isn't a real religion.

[foodcourtdruide]

The debate from the Liberal perspective has been framed that the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them, due to the obscene amount of cash they receive. blah blah blah Insurance lobby is keeping you sick and poor and the Republicans are in on it blah blah blah.

You Can not deny that was the argument. I heard it from ole PlasticFace Pelosi until I wanted to vomit. All the while acting as if she was Mother Theresa herself.

When in reality it is the Democrats that let there Governance be influenced by the Unions and the obscene amounts of cash that they use to buy off the Dems. All the while the Democrats act as if they are morally superior.

Why do you think Obama violated contract law,forced the PREFERRED bond holders into a buyout of 25 cents on the dollar in GM's bankruptcy and then magically coming out of bankruptcy 55% of the new GM was GIVEN to the UAW? The Unions OWN the Democrats.


So you take the thought that the insurance companies have too much influence over the republican party, to mean "the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them"?

Do you not see why we're disagreeing with your statement? You are being hyperbolic.

[KnoxHarrington]

So you take the thought that the insurance companies have too much influence over the republican party, to mean "the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them"?

Do you not see why we're disagreeing with your statement? You are being hyperbolic.

It reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's gimmick: say you're an "independent' that criticizes both sides, but bash Democrats about 90% of the time and only give Republicans a glancing blow occasionally.

"THE DEMOCRATS TAKE MILLIONS FROM BIG BUSINESS AND LABOR UNIONS...OK, so do the Republicans...BUT THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS AWASH IN MONEY FROM DONORS, INFLUENCING THEIR POLICY DECISIONS!"

[Serpico1103]

It reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's gimmick: say you're an "independent' that criticizes both sides, but bash Democrats about 90% of the time and only give Republicans a glancing blow occasionally.

"THE DEMOCRATS TAKE MILLIONS FROM BIG BUSINESS AND LABOR UNIONS...OK, so do the Republicans...BUT THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS AWASH IN MONEY FROM DONORS, INFLUENCING THEIR POLICY DECISIONS!"

That is every "independent" and "libertarian" opinion maker. Yet, people fall for it. Also, people think that you need to criticize each party equally. They pointed to amount of positive articles on Obama v. McCain. Is it possible that one candidate is better than the other? More substance is needed to reach a conclusion of bias. It is like saying the super bowl champs should be criticized as much as an 0-16 team.
I am not saying there isn't a bias. But, superficial counts of "positive" articles is meaningless.

[KnoxHarrington]

That is every "independent" and "libertarian" opinion maker. Yet, people fall for it. Also, people think that you need to criticize each party equally. They pointed to amount of positive articles on Obama v. McCain. Is it possible that one candidate is better than the other? More substance is needed to reach a conclusion of bias. It is like saying the super bowl champs should be criticized as much as an 0-16 team.
I am not saying there isn't a bias. But, superficial counts of "positive" articles is meaningless.

Yeah, this notion of equivalence -- that if you criticize a Republican, you must criticize a Democrat as well, and in similar terms -- has paralyzed mainstream political coverage.

[tanless1]

But everyone know Catholicism isn't a real religion.

... are you saying that catholsism is actualy a denomonation ?
... or are you saying catholosism is a religion based on a relationship, adding in the grand rituals to spice it up a notch ?

[underdog]

... are you saying that catholsism is actualy a denomonation ?
... or are you saying catholosism is a religion based on a relationship, adding in the grand rituals to spice it up a notch ?

I was just making fun of Catholics.

[Ogre]

So you take the thought that the insurance companies have too much influence over the republican party, to mean "the Republicans are the root of all of the problems in Government due to the incredible power and influence that lobbyists and special interests have over them"?

Do you not see why we're disagreeing with your statement? You are being hyperbolic.

No I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of one of the main Liberal talking points. Deflect and deny as you may, the numbers and dollars do not lie.

[tanless1]

Well technically the Democrats have been in control since 2006.

My point is that this Healhtcare debate was framed by the Democratic machine as Republicans on the take from Big Insurance, were trying to keep the poor sick and deny them their rights. All the while the Democrats backed by the Media constant propping up claimed some type of Moral Superiority in their efforts.

If the Democrats are looking for corruption and influence and buyoff then they look no further than the tips of their own noses.

The thread title states that both parties are bought and sold, just the Morally Superior Democrats with all of their wonderful ethics and "Moral and Intellectual superiority" are the FATTEST pigs in the trough.

You see your Emperor has no clothes.

Lindsay grahm, john mccain, arnold schwartznager..... the rebublican party has many opperatives, as do the democrats.
Niether brings balance, or sanity. We've both got a lot of cleaning to. This means, vote for the right guy, not the party guy.
This will also means getting obamas, because mccain is a fraud. We were fortunate to have enough documentation to knoww who he realy is. It also means we don't vote for the wrong guy, either.....and repeat.

[tanless1]

I was just making fun of Catholics.
.....or that, funny.

[SonOfSmeagol]

So you don't believe that opposition to the health care bill was mostly fueled by donations from the health care industry?

Why would they possibly oppose the bill? They're getting millions of new customers. Check out the stock prices over the last six months for some of the largest - through yesterday actually. Wouldn't they have tanked over this timeframe if it was such a bad thing for them?


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=UNH#chart1:symbol=unh;range=6m;compare=w lp+aet+ci+^dji;indicator=volume;charttype=line;cro sshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefine d

[Serpico1103]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/12/goldman-to-private-insure_n_355998.html
I guess Goldman Sachs could be wrong.
But, it seems that insurers should be against reform.
On the other hand, as with all regulations, the targeted industry usually knows regulation is inevitable, so instead of futile attempts at blocking it, they get the regulations changed to either help them or be nothing more than window dressing.