View Full Version : Race In Baseball
The Bends
03-14-2010, 10:00 PM
On the heels of Tori Hunters comments, alot of talk has gone on about the lack of black players in MLB. Every time it's brought up, we hear commentators tell us what a problem the lack of black people in MLB is. My question is....Why is a low number of black players in the MLB, a problem?
Who cares what race MLB players are? All that matters is that the best people for the job are doing it. Imagine if a white person stated that they were alarmed at the lack of white players in the NBA...They'd be called a Klan member in seconds.
Why is it that when black people aren't succeeding in something, in this case baseball, excuses are given to them. The excuses going around are A: Black youths are no longer interested in baseball. And B: Black players aren't being given the opportunity. How about this....At the highest level, White and Hispanic players are better at baseball. Why can't we just say that? It doesn't mean that black people can't play baseball. It just means that white people are better. Baseball is a high coordination game. Just like white people make better QB's, they make better pitchers...coordination. Conversely, I can say that black people are better at basketball at the highest level. It doesn't mean that white people can't play. It just means that black people are better. Why? Because black people are more athletic....
So who cares what race or country the players in the MLB are from.....the best players should play, simple!
StanUpshaw
03-14-2010, 10:30 PM
Lame trolling attempts aside, while reading this a thought came to me that I'm not sure has been discussed.
Perhaps school desegregation is somewhat responsible for this trend (assuming it exists...are there any statistics available?).
Instead of having an all-black school, and thus having all-black teams for every sport, once integration started, the white:black ratios in schools started to reflect that of the general public. So now, instead of being "separate but equal", they became minorities within the school. Naturally, they tended to stick together, perhaps limiting themselves to only a few core activities (i.e. basketball), and eschewing participation in activities that were more white-dominated.
Chigworthy
03-15-2010, 04:37 AM
On the heels of Tori Hunters comments, alot of talk has gone on about the lack of black players in MLB. Every time it's brought up, we hear commentators tell us what a problem the lack of black people in MLB is. My question is....Why is a low number of black players in the MLB, a problem?
Who cares what race MLB players are? All that matters is that the best people for the job are doing it. Imagine if a white person stated that they were alarmed at the lack of white players in the NBA...They'd be called a Klan member in seconds.
Why is it that when black people aren't succeeding in something, in this case baseball, excuses are given to them. The excuses going around are A: Black youths are no longer interested in baseball. And B: Black players aren't being given the opportunity. How about this....At the highest level, White and Hispanic players are better at baseball. Why can't we just say that? It doesn't mean that black people can't play baseball. It just means that white people are better. Baseball is a high coordination game. Just like white people make better QB's, they make better pitchers...coordination. Conversely, I can say that black people are better at basketball at the highest level. It doesn't mean that white people can't play. It just means that black people are better. Why? Because black people are more athletic....
So who cares what race or country the players in the MLB are from.....the best players should play, simple!
It' a decent point until you started in with the coordination thing. What evidence is there that coordination is based on race?
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I'm all for race in baseball. Especially when Hot Dog wins.
Dan 'Hampton
03-15-2010, 05:14 AM
I would say that the wild card has increased the interest in the pennant races, which will probably be Bud Selig's only positive lasting effect on baseball.
realmenhatelife
03-15-2010, 05:42 AM
I dont know that I've ever heard anyone say 'what a problem it is' that black interest is dropping in baseball, I've just heard discussions about why that is. And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist.
Why is this an issue? Well, when a shift goes on in a company the people who run that company are well served to know why the shift happened. Less black players means less interest by black youths. Is this particular to black youths? Urban youths? Youths in general? Will this lack of interest spread and make us a less sound business in the future? Can we regain this market share?
Aside from the business reprocutions people are far more philosophical about baseball. They think its beneficial for kids to play and for people to watch. So if suddenly a group of people is alienated from that they have an interest in why. At one point in America the appeal of baseball was universal and complete. There is a rich heritage for black kids in baseball that baseball wants to make available to them.
And I dont know where you get your ideas about black people not being as good at baseball. The all time home run king, the single season home run king, the best base stealer, the highest paid pitcher, and a handful of the better current position players are all black guys.
Serpico1103
03-15-2010, 05:56 AM
Racism!
Pittsburgh
03-15-2010, 06:15 AM
I dont know that I've ever heard anyone say 'what a problem it is' that black interest is dropping in baseball, I've just heard discussions about why that is. And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist.
Why is this an issue? Well, when a shift goes on in a company the people who run that company are well served to know why the shift happened. Less black players means less interest by black youths. Is this particular to black youths? Urban youths? Youths in general? Will this lack of interest spread and make us a less sound business in the future? Can we regain this market share?
Aside from the business reprocutions people are far more philosophical about baseball. They think its beneficial for kids to play and for people to watch. So if suddenly a group of people is alienated from that they have an interest in why. At one point in America the appeal of baseball was universal and complete. There is a rich heritage for black kids in baseball that baseball wants to make available to them.
And I dont know where you get your ideas about black people not being as good at baseball. The all time home run king, the single season home run king, the best base stealer, the highest paid pitcher, and a handful of the better current position players are all black guys.
Well said. You saved me a lot of typing.
KnoxHarrington
03-15-2010, 06:24 AM
Hunter might have had a good point about how GM's are looking at Latin players as an exploitable resource, but he had to drag some really stupid race-baiting into this and ruin that point.
realmenhatelife
03-15-2010, 06:44 AM
Hunter might have had a good point about how GM's are looking at Latin players as an exploitable resource, but he had to drag some really stupid race-baiting into this and ruin that point.
Yeah, he was making a valid point in a stupid way. These guys are athletes, very few of them could be called eloquent. It's not the same as a person who speaks for a living saying racially incendiary things.
Misteriosa
03-15-2010, 06:50 AM
Hunter might have had a good point about how GM's are looking at Latin players as an exploitable resource, but he had to drag some really stupid race-baiting into this and ruin that point.
yep. once he started in with the "better coordination" idea, he began to trickle into "race supremacy" ideas.
fwiw, which is probably not much, i can only testify to what ive seen in the bronx. it seems that black youth are pushed more to basketball. even growing up, it was this way. you were nothing if you didnt have "skillz" (z intended) on the court. not being black, i cant tell you with certainty what the cultural influences are. i guess its prob that getting a basketball scholarship/nba contract is the only way some people can think of to get out.
every summer, its becoming increasingly rare to see a black kid in a pee wee game. those are more dominated by the hispanic population. i know baseball has a long relationship with hispanics, esp in the caribbean (cuba, pr, dr). i think ken burns actually covered some of it in his Baseball documentary.
Beisbol (or Pelota in the slang) is what i grew up with. i never learned to throw a football, i cant skate, i cant dribble well, but i can hit a ball like nobody's business. :o
Serpico1103
03-15-2010, 07:09 AM
The GM breeds his little shortstop with his little female.
Interesting thoughts. It appears that you've finally read Jimmy the Greek's notes on athletics.
Coordination for whites? That's fucking crazytalk.
JPMNICK
03-15-2010, 08:51 AM
in 2010, do you think anyone is keeping any race away from the game? i think any team and GM is just looking for the best players. maybe i am being naive, but i think end of the day the latin influx comes from their hard work and great skill set, making them the best at the position right now.
underdog
03-15-2010, 08:52 AM
the latin influx comes from their hard work and great skill set
WRESTLINGFAN disagrees.
foodcourtdruide
03-15-2010, 08:58 AM
WRESTLINGFAN disagrees.
I'm surprised he doesn't post an article everytime a latin player makes an error.
StanUpshaw
03-15-2010, 08:58 AM
What researchers at Clemson University have to say:
Our analysis of the market for professional baseball players shows that domestic labor-market restrictions have reduced domestic employment, especially of African-Americans, with employers instead shifting employment overseas. Our theoretical model suggests that, in 1965, the imposition of both the player draft and stricter age minimums for hiring U.S. players reduced the benefits of signing and developing U.S. players, especially players from disadvantaged groups such as African-Americans. Our empirical analysis, using a new data set, then shows that, in response, teams have shifted to hiring and training players from other countries where the regulations do not apply, especially Latin America.
Complete paper here. (http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~sauerr/seminar_papers/BBPAPER_joanna3.pdf)
foodcourtdruide
03-15-2010, 09:06 AM
What researchers at Clemson University have to say:
Complete paper here. (http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~sauerr/seminar_papers/BBPAPER_joanna3.pdf)
Are you trying to introduce login and reason into a debate in which someone has claimed that white people make better pitchers and QB's because they have better coordination than other races? As I'm typing this, I'm balancing a beach ball on my nose.
It's an issue because of the historical importance of baseball in American culture, and because baseball played a pretty significant role in setting the table for integration.
As to why there aren't more blacks in baseball now, there's a few easily targeted reasons.
1 - the cost of playing baseball vs. football and basketball.
2 - the climate of the United States is only conducive to playing six months a year in more than half the country.
3 - the cost of signing a top high school player or college player is very expensive compared to the cost of signing a kid at 16 to train at an academy in the Dominican or in Venezuela (especially when you've been scouting the kid since 14), where they can play year round and you have full control over their training.
4 - the amount of money spent on American baseball programs (RBI, Boys & Girls Club) is negligible compared to what is spent annually in Caribbean academies.
5 - the NCAA has done a terrible job promoting baseball, giving predominately most of its big scholarship money to football and basketball.
Just think of it this way, though...if you're a kid in the Dominican and you want to play baseball, you know the path to get seen...there's a bunch of teams with academies scouting school and pick up games all year round.
If you're a poor kid (white or black) and you want to play, what do you do? Sign up for your local public school team? Colleges and the Pros BARELY scout those if there's not a precedent for a school sending legitimate talent to the next level.
Even learning baseball in the U.S. as a young kid can get somewhat expensive...little league costs a nice chunk of change these days.
sailor
03-15-2010, 02:49 PM
my only question regarding this when it's been brought up in the past, why is it mlb's obligation to try to alter the diversity in the game? they're not keeping anyone out, there's just not the same interest there was in the past. when it came up like 4 years ago, earl said mlb owed it to the black community to actively try to foster interest thru youth camps.
my only question regarding this when it's been brought up in the past, why is it mlb's obligation to try to alter the diversity in the game? they're not keeping anyone out, there's just not the same interest there was in the past. when it came up like 4 years ago, earl said mlb owed it to the black community to actively try to foster interest thru youth camps.
It's not their obligation, but it's probably in their best long-term interests.
If 20 or 30 years down the line, half your league and most of your stars are foreign born, you run the risk of a disconnect between baseball and its fans.
Also, if the United States produces some of the best athletes in the world, and they're choosing the NFL and NBA over MLB, it reflects badly on the sport in terms of its standing as a sport in this country.
Plus, they're not just losing black athletes, they're losing their black audience in most markets.
Honestly, I go to 20 games a year or so at Citizens Bank Park, and the Phillies have two of the most prominent black stars in the game and the number of black kids you see in the stands on any given night you could probably count on your hands.
Any black people in the audience are usually over the age of 40. Now, a decent portion of that has to do with ticket costs, but most studies show there's been a steady decline in black viewership in baseball.
realmenhatelife
03-15-2010, 05:56 PM
It's not their obligation, but it's probably in their best long-term interests.
If 20 or 30 years down the line, half your league and most of your stars are foreign born, you run the risk of a disconnect between baseball and its fans.
Also, if the United States produces some of the best athletes in the world, and they're choosing the NFL and NBA over MLB, it reflects badly on the sport in terms of its standing as a sport in this country.
Plus, they're not just losing black athletes, they're losing their black audience in most markets.
Honestly, I go to 20 games a year or so at Citizens Bank Park, and the Phillies have two of the most prominent black stars in the game and the number of black kids you see in the stands on any given night you could probably count on your hands.
Any black people in the audience are usually over the age of 40. Now, a decent portion of that has to do with ticket costs, but most studies show there's been a steady decline in black viewership in baseball.
Exactly, the major American sports leagues essentially compete for the same talent. Think about how many star athletes have multi sport backgrounds. It's in MLBs financial best interest to draw as much of the cream of the crop as they can.
Exactly, the major American sports leagues essentially compete for the same talent. Think about how many star athletes have multi sport backgrounds. It's in MLBs financial best interest to draw as much of the cream of the crop as they can.
Which is why Selig pushed for the expansion of the RBI (Reviving Baseball in the Inner cities) program. Smart play really...
The Bends
03-15-2010, 09:48 PM
I dont know that I've ever heard anyone say 'what a problem it is' that black interest is dropping in baseball, I've just heard discussions about why that is. And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist.
Why is this an issue? Well, when a shift goes on in a company the people who run that company are well served to know why the shift happened. Less black players means less interest by black youths. Is this particular to black youths? Urban youths? Youths in general? Will this lack of interest spread and make us a less sound business in the future? Can we regain this market share?
Aside from the business reprocutions people are far more philosophical about baseball. They think its beneficial for kids to play and for people to watch. So if suddenly a group of people is alienated from that they have an interest in why. At one point in America the appeal of baseball was universal and complete. There is a rich heritage for black kids in baseball that baseball wants to make available to them.
And I dont know where you get your ideas about black people not being as good at baseball. The all time home run king, the single season home run king, the best base stealer, the highest paid pitcher, and a handful of the better current position players are all black guys. Let me address this post, since it represents the naivety and politically correct posters in this thread.....
"I dont know that I've ever heard anyone say 'what a problem it is' that black interest is dropping in baseball, I've just heard discussions about why that is. And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist."
Besides my example of Tori Hunter, most major sports news outlets as well as sports casters/journalist have described the lack of black players in MLB as a problem....From Peter Gammons to Dan Patrick, Tim Kurkjan to Keith Olberman, Bob Costas to Jim Brown.....It's continually characterized as a problem...
"Why is this an issue? Well, when a shift goes on in a company the people who run that company are well served to know why the shift happened. Less black players means less interest by black youths. Is this particular to black youths? Urban youths? Youths in general? Will this lack of interest spread and make us a less sound business in the future? Can we regain this market share?"
The number of black players in baseball is at it's highest in years....This is being looked at as a social issue, not a business one...You are giving black people an excuse for the lack of black players in MLB. You say it's a lack of interst...But it may be that black players just aren't as good...
"And I dont know where you get your ideas about black people not being as good at baseball. The all time home run king, the single season home run king, the best base stealer, the highest paid pitcher, and a handful of the better current position players are all black guys"
What a dumb statement!.....Just look at the percentages! You can't just name a few players to prove your point....And why are white people so afraid to say that other white people are better than black people at something? Stop being so scared!....
The Bends
03-15-2010, 09:58 PM
Are you trying to introduce login and reason into a debate in which someone has claimed that white people make better pitchers and QB's because they have better coordination than other races? As I'm typing this, I'm balancing a beach ball on my nose.
Why are you so afraid? White players/athletes have more coordination and stronger arms......Black players/athletes are more athletic......Now that doesn't mean some white players/athletes aren't greatly athletic, or some black people players/athletes aren't greatly coordinated. It just means that at the highest level white players/athletes are more coordinates, while black players/athletes are more athletic.....
I understand you are afraid....So I will gently pose these questions to you....
Why in a game where black players are the majority, the NFL, white players dominate the QB position?
Why in baseball is there so many white pitchers, yet so few black pitchers?
The Bends
03-15-2010, 10:05 PM
And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist.
Never! You have never heard a respected journalist claim that the lack of white players in the NBA was a problem. Never! This BS statement, along with you never hearing about how the lack of black players in MLB is a problem proves how out of touch you are on this issue....
If I did hear some idiot claim that the lack of white players in the NBA is a problem, I'd bash him too... I don't care what race the players are....I just want the best players to play! If white people want more white players in the NBA, then get your shit together and practice more among your community....work harder! Same goes for black people and baseball...
sailor
03-16-2010, 03:20 AM
It's not their obligation, but it's probably in their best long-term interests.
If 20 or 30 years down the line, half your league and most of your stars are foreign born, you run the risk of a disconnect between baseball and its fans.
Also, if the United States produces some of the best athletes in the world, and they're choosing the NFL and NBA over MLB, it reflects badly on the sport in terms of its standing as a sport in this country.
Plus, they're not just losing black athletes, they're losing their black audience in most markets.
Honestly, I go to 20 games a year or so at Citizens Bank Park, and the Phillies have two of the most prominent black stars in the game and the number of black kids you see in the stands on any given night you could probably count on your hands.
Any black people in the audience are usually over the age of 40. Now, a decent portion of that has to do with ticket costs, but most studies show there's been a steady decline in black viewership in baseball.
Exactly, the major American sports leagues essentially compete for the same talent. Think about how many star athletes have multi sport backgrounds. It's in MLBs financial best interest to draw as much of the cream of the crop as they can.
Which is why Selig pushed for the expansion of the RBI (Reviving Baseball in the Inner cities) program. Smart play really...
no, not exactly. i mean, yes, it's obviously true to be good for baseball from an economic stand-point, and everyone knows rbi is a good program. my only problem is none of that answers my question as to why it's seen as a social obligation on mlb's part. no one's debating whether it's a good business model.
Serpico1103
03-16-2010, 03:55 AM
Why are you so afraid? White players/athletes have more coordination and stronger arms......Black players/athletes are more athletic......Now that doesn't mean some white players/athletes aren't greatly athletic, or some black people players/athletes aren't greatly coordinated. It just means that at the highest level white players/athletes are more coordinates, while black players/athletes are more athletic.....
I understand you are afraid....So I will gently pose these questions to you....
Why in a game where black players are the majority, the NFL, white players dominate the QB position?
Why in baseball is there so many white pitchers, yet so few black pitchers?
I'll give you the reason you want.
Black people are too stupid. QBing and pitching takes intelligence, not just raw athletic ability. Same reason for years blacks didn't hold a head coaching position in football, while dominating at all positions.
Slave owners didn't breed their big brained buck with their big brained woman.
realmenhatelife
03-16-2010, 04:44 AM
Let me address this post, since it represents the naivety and politically correct posters in this thread.....
"I dont know that I've ever heard anyone say 'what a problem it is' that black interest is dropping in baseball, I've just heard discussions about why that is. And I do believe I have heard people discuss the disproportionate amount of whites and the desire to increase the number of whites in basketball without being called racist."
Besides my example of Tori Hunter, most major sports news outlets as well as sports casters/journalist have described the lack of black players in MLB as a problem....From Peter Gammons to Dan Patrick, Tim Kurkjan to Keith Olberman, Bob Costas to Jim Brown.....It's continually characterized as a problem...
"Why is this an issue? Well, when a shift goes on in a company the people who run that company are well served to know why the shift happened. Less black players means less interest by black youths. Is this particular to black youths? Urban youths? Youths in general? Will this lack of interest spread and make us a less sound business in the future? Can we regain this market share?"
The number of black players in baseball is at it's highest in years....This is being looked at as a social issue, not a business one...You are giving black people an excuse for the lack of black players in MLB. You say it's a lack of interst...But it may be that black players just aren't as good...
"And I dont know where you get your ideas about black people not being as good at baseball. The all time home run king, the single season home run king, the best base stealer, the highest paid pitcher, and a handful of the better current position players are all black guys"
What a dumb statement!.....Just look at the percentages! You can't just name a few players to prove your point....And why are white people so afraid to say that other white people are better than black people at something? Stop being so scared!....
You use the word 'problem' in the uppity minority sense, like these guys are griping because thats what they do. I've heard discussions about the trend and what can be done about it, because it has a negative impact on the sport. I have heard journalists, and I cant remember who so discount it all you want, talk about how quality white players in the NBA bring in fringe fans who might not normally watch.
I cant say if the straight up numbers of black players are higher but there are more teams now than there used to be, and according to MLB (who would probably know) blacks are less represented in the sport. "the eight-man committee USA Today assembled that includes Hunter as well as agent Scott Boras and Reds manager Dusty Baker, was discussing how a lot of baseball fans don't realize how few African-Americans there are playing baseball now compared to previous years: 10 percent of the players on last year's Opening Day rosters were black."
MLB is looking at this as both a social issue and a financial issue because it has a major impact both places. It doesn't serve anyones needs to broadcast the sound financial planning behind your altruistic acts, though. So ofcourse they're going to focus on the social aspect. And I'm sure for the players involved in the RBI program the social legacy of baseball is way more important, so Torii Hunter isnt going to say how more black kids should get into baseball because it's good for the owners.
I said 'as good as' and you said 'better.' It's so obviously a race thing for you. I do believe that owning a bunch of the superlatives and populating some of todays elite players proves that blacks are 'as good as' whites in the sport. If there was a genetic racial devide in the sport then you wouldn't see blacks excelling in all aspects. Being a power hitter, a short stop, or a pitcher are way different things athletically and no single aspect of baseball excludes any of the races.
No one needs an excuse, no one aside from you is debating whether or not black people can play baseball, that has never been a question. It's idiotic to suggest that all the great black players were overrated, or some kind of fluke (that happened a bunch of times.) The negro leagues weren't like the first NFL Europe. No one is even mandating this discussion and we have a black president who is a baseball fan. Ironically people are talking about race and you're acusing them of being politically correct, if people weren't avoiding race you'd be saying the same thing.
And just to play devil's advocate, if you are going to have the discussion if whites or blacks are better baseball players you're probably arguing over second or third place, which just seems silly.
I just wish we could keep those damn Canadians out!
brettmojo
03-16-2010, 11:18 AM
The blacks are playing football and basketball because they know the latinos have the advantage over them in baseball. The safer bet to make pro is in the other sports. No big mystery.
Which is why Selig pushed for the expansion of the RBI (Reviving Baseball in the Inner cities) program. Smart play really...
Agreed, although I think the part of the sentiment that Torii Hunter was trying to express (although he was talking more specifically about scholarships), is that the amount of money they spend on the RBI and American baseball programs is still fairly small compared to what they spend on the Caribbean academies.
I remember reading back in 2003 they were spending 60 million annually on scouting and development in Latin America. I'm sure that's probably doubled by now.
I think the biggest argument in favor of pumping money back into impoverished areas in terms of baseball, though, is that if you're poor and you play baseball, it is a lot harder to get noticed by the pros and colleges than it is to get noticed if you play football and basketball.
A large part of that, like I said before, is because the NCAA values those sports more, but a significant part is that the structure of the amateur baseball ranks sucks.
The blacks are playing football and basketball because they know the latinos have the advantage over them in baseball. The safer bet to make pro is in the other sports. No big mystery.
Part of it.
The other part is the cost of baseball programs, and the lack of good baseball programs, particularly in public schools in much of the country.
That's really where MLB should be looking to throw their money if they want to help...into some type of school baseball trust fund that these different places can apply to get aid to help structure their programs and leagues.
The Bends
03-17-2010, 12:07 AM
You use the word 'problem' in the uppity minority sense, like these guys are griping because thats what they do. I've heard discussions about the trend and what can be done about it, because it has a negative impact on the sport. I have heard journalists, and I cant remember who so discount it all you want, talk about how quality white players in the NBA bring in fringe fans who might not normally watch.
I cant say if the straight up numbers of black players are higher but there are more teams now than there used to be, and according to MLB (who would probably know) blacks are less represented in the sport. "the eight-man committee USA Today assembled that includes Hunter as well as agent Scott Boras and Reds manager Dusty Baker, was discussing how a lot of baseball fans don't realize how few African-Americans there are playing baseball now compared to previous years: 10 percent of the players on last year's Opening Day rosters were black."
MLB is looking at this as both a social issue and a financial issue because it has a major impact both places. It doesn't serve anyones needs to broadcast the sound financial planning behind your altruistic acts, though. So ofcourse they're going to focus on the social aspect. And I'm sure for the players involved in the RBI program the social legacy of baseball is way more important, so Torii Hunter isnt going to say how more black kids should get into baseball because it's good for the owners.
I said 'as good as' and you said 'better.' It's so obviously a race thing for you. I do believe that owning a bunch of the superlatives and populating some of todays elite players proves that blacks are 'as good as' whites in the sport. If there was a genetic racial devide in the sport then you wouldn't see blacks excelling in all aspects. Being a power hitter, a short stop, or a pitcher are way different things athletically and no single aspect of baseball excludes any of the races.
No one needs an excuse, no one aside from you is debating whether or not black people can play baseball, that has never been a question. It's idiotic to suggest that all the great black players were overrated, or some kind of fluke (that happened a bunch of times.) The negro leagues weren't like the first NFL Europe. No one is even mandating this discussion and we have a black president who is a baseball fan. Ironically people are talking about race and you're acusing them of being politically correct, if people weren't avoiding race you'd be saying the same thing.
And just to play devil's advocate, if you are going to have the discussion if whites or blacks are better baseball players you're probably arguing over second or third place, which just seems silly. I could only read so much of that excuse making, tirade.....
The fact that you can't name a single journalist who brought up that the lack of whites in the NBA as a problem, continues to prove how full of shit you are.....That never happened....
Answer these two simple questions for me....
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
The Bends
03-17-2010, 12:13 AM
For those of you making this an economic issue:
You don't need money to learn how to play, or to simply play the game of baseball. White youths, just as black youths do, simply go to the local park....some share gloves, bats, play 5x5, off the wall, whiffle, whatever it takes to play.....The white players aren't dishing out millions of dollars to be tutored, while the poor black youths are stuck with nothing....that's bull shit...
There isn't a lack of interest in baseball, in the black community....and you can't use the crowds in the stands as an example.....just look at the crowds in college and pro basketball games....mostly white...
You don't need money to learn how to play, or to simply play the game of baseball. White youths, just as black youths do, simply go to the local park....some share gloves, bats, play 5x5, off the wall, whiffle, whatever it takes to play.....The white players aren't dishing out millions of dollars to be tutored, while the poor black youths are stuck with nothing....that's bull shit...
There isn't a lack of interest in baseball, in the black community....and you can't use the crowds in the stands as an example.....just look at the crowds in college and pro basketball games....mostly white...
You need equipment to play baseball. To get the equipment, someone has to have paid for it.
I think there is a rather simple economic reason black kids have drifted away from baseball. If you assume that a lot of these kids grow up dreaming of the day they are going to be rich right out of high school or college by going pro, why would you think they would pursue baseball? Most university players who manage to get signed by a team spend years in the minors making very little money. NBA and NFL players get signing bonuses and other perks for their troubles.
In the tournament of life, baseball requires a different kind of discipline from American players.
Here in Japan, a local star player who merely qualifies to play in the high school baseball championship can look forward to a life where a major company would hire him at a large salary because of the "inspirational value" of his presence. Sure, the guy might be unable to complete a coherent sentence, sure Hitachi or Sony needs bright young minds, but that lunkhead played in "Koshien!" We need his spirit.
In America, if you played in the finals of the national high school or college baseball championships, you'd be lucky if the most desperate talent scout for the Kansas City Royals even knew who you were.
realmenhatelife
03-17-2010, 04:03 AM
I could only read so much of that excuse making, tirade.....
The fact that you can't name a single journalist who brought up that the lack of whites in the NBA as a problem, continues to prove how full of shit you are.....That never happened....
Answer these two simple questions for me....
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
That's why I say discount it. It's not a valid point if I cant name facts. I think it was on PTI, ATH, or maybe realsports.
Do you honestly think it takes coordination to throw a baseball or a football but it doesnt take coordination to hit, field, or make a reception? And how great are pitchers at doing anything else besides pitching? If you fielded 18 pitchers for a game noone would watch it. But that isn't even the conversation, Race in baseball not race in positions.
cougarjake13
03-17-2010, 01:53 PM
my opinion is that in the nba and nfl you can go from college straight to pro's and make huge money quicker than going from college to minors for a few years and hopefully called up to majors and then perform well enough to get a huge contract
so you can either choose the nba and nfl and if your good enough be a millionaire by 19-21 or wait until almlost 30 in mlb
sailor
03-17-2010, 01:56 PM
my opinion is that in the nba and nfl you can go from college straight to pro's and make huge money quicker than going from college to minors for a few years and hopefully called up to majors and then perform well enough to get a huge contract
so you can either choose the nba and nfl and if your good enough be a millionaire by 19-21 or wait until almlost 30 in mlb
but that applies to everyone.
The Bends
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
That's why I say discount it. It's not a valid point if I cant name facts. I think it was on PTI, ATH, or maybe realsports.
Do you honestly think it takes coordination to throw a baseball or a football but it doesnt take coordination to hit, field, or make a reception? And how great are pitchers at doing anything else besides pitching? If you fielded 18 pitchers for a game noone would watch it. But that isn't even the conversation, Race in baseball not race in positions.
I never said black people weren't coordinated....Or that black people couldn't make great baseball players.....
I said that white athletes have a mix of being more coordinated, and having stronger arms......
Please, answer my two questions....
Why do white players dominate the pitching position?
Why do white players dominate the QB position?
Why are white people so afraid to say that white's are better than black's at something?.....It doesn't mean that you are racist, cowards....It just means that you can openly discuss matters that pertain to race......White people suck!.....
I bet I'd have to pull your teeth to admit that white people make better coaches....
Or
White people make better hockey players.....
The Bends
03-17-2010, 09:47 PM
You need equipment to play baseball. To get the equipment, someone has to have paid for it.
.
No, you really don't......
Stop painting this out to be "the poor black kids, against the rich white ones".....
All you need is a ball, some friends, and a few gloves....
Growing up, we shared gloves. We'd get a bunch of friends together, accumulate enough gloves for one team, and simply switch off in the field....
Finally, the poorest of the poor are playing baseball in the Dominican Republic.....Poor kids there are getting it done very easily!
realmenhatelife
03-18-2010, 12:00 PM
I never said black people weren't coordinated....Or that black people couldn't make great baseball players.....
I said that white athletes have a mix of being more coordinated, and having stronger arms......
Please, answer my two questions....
Why do white players dominate the pitching position?
Why do white players dominate the QB position?
Why are white people so afraid to say that white's are better than black's at something?.....It doesn't mean that you are racist, cowards....It just means that you can openly discuss matters that pertain to race......White people suck!.....
I bet I'd have to pull your teeth to admit that white people make better coaches....
Or
White people make better hockey players.....
You said that blacks are less coordinated and you connected that to the smaller number of blacks in the game. The implication is that, in baseball, blacks are inferior to whites. There are too many great and good black baseball players to support your claims. If they were legitimately at a genetic disadvantage baseball would probably look a lot more like golf or hockey.
Further, the discussion in the MLB isn't about the lack of players since integration, its about the falling number of players. So if the proportion of blacks to whites in the game now is completely natural and not driven by social factors then why were there a higher percentage of black players before anyone was concerned with the mythical liberalism you say drives this discussion?
I'm not going to answer your questions seriously because they're manipulative, irrelevant, and you're impervious to logic. There are so many factors there that you want to boil down to race because you're not making an intelligant argument, you're making a purposefully racially incendiery argument. You're being passive aggressively racist. But I'm glad you bring up coaches and hockey, because neither of those things can be explained away with race. There hasn't been enough diversity in coaching or ownership to make a legitimate, educated argument that race makes any difference.
Bringing up hockey is completely laughable considering its Northern US, rural, and north/eastern european roots. It's like saying people that live in the desert are genetically shitty swimmers.
JimBeam
03-18-2010, 01:52 PM
I think the fact is that a lot of players that are good enough to play baseball are also good enough to play other sports where they may have easier access to making money immediately.
It's very easy to fail in baseball because there are so many levels and each has it's own degre of skill which is needed to be considered the best.
So if you have a player that's a great RB, take for example Ricky Williams, and is so so in baseball ( career .216 or so minor league average if I remember correctly ) it's an no brainer for him to try and make his money at something that's easier for him.
Not to say that making a team as an NFL RB is a gimmee for anybody but it might be a better option for some.
Remember that occasionally white players fail at baseball too and try to come back to football. Most noteably Josh Booty.
I've posted in the past the college baseball itself has very few black players because those that are good enough to go to the top flight programs are more than likley good enough to play professional baseball at some level.
So in those cases many may jump at the chance to make immediate money as opposed to waiting the 3 years minimum they'd have to wait if they went to college.
Add to that the fact that very few college baseball scholarships are full rides means you may have a player that can't afford to pay for even a small percentage of their tuition so again college isn't an option.
None of these issues specifically addresses why MLB is lacking in black players but it does provide some details.
The Bends
03-18-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm not going to answer your questions seriously because they're manipulative, irrelevant, and you're impervious to logic.
Ladies and gentleman......The coward....
Just answer the questions....
The Bends
03-20-2010, 06:11 AM
OK real,
Since you are scared to answer my other questions, let me ask you much easier ones...
Do you think black people are more athletic than white people?
Do you think black people are better at basketball than white people?
No, you really don't......
Stop painting this out to be "the poor black kids, against the rich white ones".....
I didn't point it out like that. You make the expenses of playing baseball sound trivial. Borrowing a glove is fine if you have friends who have gloves. If the question is why aren't black kids playing baseball and your suggestion is that they borrow from each other, who are they borrowing from?
Street basketball is a much better place to develop marketable skills than sandlot baseball. The little leagues (which are expensive) are where young boys go to develops skills.
Whiffle ball isn't baseball. Why not suggest kids who want to play basketball buy a Nerf-Hoop?
The only boy to come out of my town in football during my graduation year and move beyond the semi-pro level has a Super Bowl ring. The only boy to bust out in basketball is an assistant coach with an NCAA team.
The students I met with when I taught at my local high school treated baseball like the sport they played when they weren't playing basketball or football. There were no students who I met who even thought they could make it in baseball. They heard too many stories about making terrible money in the Single-A clubs and just lost interest in the process.
This isn't even a race-based issue. The reason you see fewer African American players in the Majors is same reason you see fewer Americans in the Majors.
TripleSkeet
03-20-2010, 08:41 AM
The answer is simple, Misteriosa actually got it, black kids just dont have as much of an interest in baseball anymore. They play basketball in the summer, football in the winter. You know why? Its cheap, and there are plenty of places to play.
In basketball all you need is a ball and 10 kids can play for hours. Around here there are at least 5 courts within walking distanc in one South Philly neighborhood. If they want to play baseball they have to buy bats, gloves and balls. And they have to be able to get on the field. Alot of places around here dont let kids play pickup baseball on their fields because they try to take care of it for the softball and little league teams. So the inner city kids play some basketball, then jump in the city pool. Its not hard to understand.
The thing is there are alot of black players in baseball, but the fact they dont dominate most of the sport like they do basketball and football is alarming to some people. Personally I like the facts that hispanics come over and play. It should be the best players on the field, color shouldnt have anything to do with them getting a job. And the original poster is right, Ive seen sports shows where they talked about the decline in black players in baseball like it was a tragedy but they would never speak that away about white players in the NBA.
And dont get me started on QB's. You can bring out every stat you know but the bottom line is the Super Bowl number is still 43-1 and with the exception of Donovan McNabb, there is very few black QB's in the league right now that people would even consider above average.
TripleSkeet
03-20-2010, 08:47 AM
And I dont know when the last time any of you couch potatoes tried to buy a baseball glove but they are like $50 each now. So are bats. Most kids in the inner city either dont have or arent allowed to spend that much money to go play. They buy a basketball for $20 and they are good for the summer.
And I dont know when the last time any of you couch potatoes tried to buy a baseball glove but they are like $50 each now. So are bats. Most kids in the inner city either dont have or arent allowed to spend that much money to go play. They buy a basketball for $20 and they are good for the summer.
I bought my glove in Korea because the gloves in Japan start at 90 bucks. Many are 200-300 bucks
A decent glove in the states is like 70 dollars.
The Bends
03-21-2010, 08:19 PM
And I dont know when the last time any of you couch potatoes tried to buy a baseball glove but they are like $50 each now. So are bats. Most kids in the inner city either dont have or arent allowed to spend that much money to go play. They buy a basketball for $20 and they are good for the summer. On the subject of economics as it relates to baseball.....
How are poor kids in the Dominic Republic able to play baseball? They sure find a way........
Again, stop making this about the poor black kids in America not being able to afford equipment....When did baseball get thrown in with privileged sports like golf, tennis, and lacrosse?
Local park districts provide equipment....There are plenty of youth organizations, like The Boys club and RBI, who provide the essentials to play the game, for free.......Many black people in America come for middle class homes...black people aren't all poor, despite your logic.....
Once again, why is it so hard for white people to say they are better than black people at something? Why can't white people speak honestly on any racial subjects, without the injection of guilt or fear into the equation?....Here, this is how it's done....
Black people are better at basketball than white people, at the highest levels....Why? Because black people are more athletic than white people....That doesn't mean white people aren't athletic, or that some white people don't display the highest level of athleticism. It just means black people, on average, are more athletic(See boxing, track, most skill positions in the NFL).....It also doesn't mean that white people aren't good at basketball....
Conversely, white people are better at baseball....Why? Because white people are more coordinated athletically, and have stronger arms(See the pitching position in baseball, and the QB position in football)....That doesn't mean that black people aren't highly coordinated, or that black people don't have strong arms...It just means that at the highest levels, and on average, white players are more coordinated and have stronger arms.....It also doesn't mean that black people aren't good at baseball....
It's really not that hard.......We may have to start off safe with some of you.....like.......Black people have a darker complexion than white people.....Sorry, that's way too risky for most of you!
TripleSkeet
03-21-2010, 09:19 PM
On the subject of economics as it relates to baseball.....
How are poor kids in the Dominic Republic able to play baseball? They sure find a way........
Again, stop making this about the poor black kids in America not being able to afford equipment....When did baseball get thrown in with privileged sports like golf, tennis, and lacrosse?
Local park districts provide equipment....There are plenty of youth organizations, like The Boys club and RBI, who provide the essentials to play the game, for free.......Many black people in America come for middle class homes...black people aren't all poor, despite your logic.....
Once again, why is it so hard for white people to say they are better than black people at something? Why can't white people speak honestly on any racial subjects, without the injection of guilt or fear into the equation?....Here, this is how it's done....
Black people are better at basketball than white people, at the highest levels....Why? Because black people are more athletic than white people....That doesn't mean white people aren't athletic, or that some white people don't display the highest level of athleticism. It just means black people, on average, are more athletic(See boxing, track, most skill positions in the NFL).....It also doesn't mean that white people aren't good at basketball....
Conversely, white people are better at baseball....Why? Because white people are more coordinated athletically, and have stronger arms(See the pitching position in baseball, and the QB position in football)....That doesn't mean that black people aren't highly coordinated, or that black people don't have strong arms...It just means that at the highest levels, and on average, white players are more coordinated and have stronger arms.....It also doesn't mean that black people aren't good at baseball....
It's really not that hard.......We may have to start off safe with some of you.....like.......Black people have a darker complexion than white people.....Sorry, that's way too risky for most of you!
This is how stupid you are....
You picked the ONE guy on this board that isnt afraid to say white people are better at certain sports positions then black guys, and vice versa. I had the same quarterbacks argument over a year ago.
But the fact is more blacks dont play baseball for the exact reason I said. Kids in the Dominican Republic play baseball because they love it, and thats the main sport in their country. Some of the poor kids play with fucking rocks if they dont have baseballs for fucks sake. They dont have all the options kids in the states have.
Your logic on economics is stupid. Its not about sports organizations, its about having the equipment for pick up games. Most kids dont want to have to join a youth organization to play a sport. They want to be able to go hang out with their friends and play.
Is ice hockey a "priviledged" sport. No. Why are so many kids in Canada playing hockey and not here in the states? Because its expensive as fuck. My parents couldnt afford ice skates and hockey equipment. The closest we came was buying a hockey stick and playing foot hockey with a roll of electric tape. And our parents werent poor. Black kids dont even touch hockey sticks around here.
Also whoever said how long and how many steps you have to take to be a baseball star. Hockey is the same way. Its not like basketball and football where it goes high school, college, paycheck. Thats another reason you dont see as many blacks going that route.
The Bends
03-22-2010, 09:45 AM
This is how stupid you are....
You picked the ONE guy on this board that isnt afraid to say white people are better at certain sports positions then black guys, and vice versa. I had the same quarterbacks argument over a year ago.
But the fact is more blacks dont play baseball for the exact reason I said. Kids in the Dominican Republic play baseball because they love it, and thats the main sport in their country. Some of the poor kids play with fucking rocks if they dont have baseballs for fucks sake. They dont have all the options kids in the states have.
Your logic on economics is stupid. Its not about sports organizations, its about having the equipment for pick up games. Most kids dont want to have to join a youth organization to play a sport. They want to be able to go hang out with their friends and play.
Yeah, I was calling everyone in this thread scared to say white people are better...you included with your silly rationale.....
How do you know that black youths aren't playing baseball? I see plenty playing.........
A baseball glove costs 20 bucks, sometime less......Stop acting like black people in this country can't afford equipment....they can.....many black people are doing just fine financially......ALL BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T POOR...christ
There are plenty of poor white kids who find a way.....all you need is a field, a bat, 5 gloves, and some card board bases, that's it! Just like the children in the Dominican Republic can do it, so can the poor kids in the United States, black or white....
The organizations, including the park district, provided equipment to you....you don't have to join anything....stop making things up......
Black youths, as well as black people in general, love baseball.....It's the sport that lead the way in ending true segregation.....It holds an important place among that race.....So don't speak for the millions of black people in this country....they love the game!
Furtherman
03-22-2010, 09:55 AM
jesus tap dancin' christ... WHY CAN'T PEOPLE GROW UP THE WAY I DID?! IT'S NOT HARD!! SILLY HUMANS!
The Bends
03-22-2010, 10:35 AM
The fear white people display in discussing race in this country, is comical........Your racial discussions begin and end with calling a white person racist.......
Serpico1103
03-22-2010, 10:38 AM
The fear white people display in discussing race in this country, is comical........Your racial discussions begin and end with calling a white person racist.......
Racist######fearfearfearfearfear#####racist.
TripleSkeet
03-22-2010, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I was calling everyone in this thread scared to say white people are better...you included with your silly rationale.....
How do you know that black youths aren't playing baseball? I see plenty playing.........
A baseball glove costs 20 bucks, sometime less......Stop acting like black people in this country can't afford equipment....they can.....many black people are doing just fine financially......ALL BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T POOR...christ
There are plenty of poor white kids who find a way.....all you need is a field, a bat, 5 gloves, and some card board bases, that's it! Just like the children in the Dominican Republic can do it, so can the poor kids in the United States, black or white....
The organizations, including the park district, provided equipment to you....you don't have to join anything....stop making things up......
Black youths, as well as black people in general, love baseball.....It's the sport that lead the way in ending true segregation.....It holds an important place among that race.....So don't speak for the millions of black people in this country....they love the game!
I never said black people dont play baseball. Its just a sport that black kids growing up dont majorly favor. They are a huge minority in baseball. From little league to the pros.
And I dont know where the fuck you grew up, but there are no youth programs around here just giving kids baseball gloves and bats whenever they want to play. Theyve never done that around here, even when I was a kid.
Most pro black athletes come from the inner city. And thats where they have the least money and facilities. Thats why they dont play as much.
The Bends
03-22-2010, 11:26 AM
I never said black people dont play baseball. Its just a sport that black kids growing up dont majorly favor. They are a huge minority in baseball. From little league to the pros.
And I dont know where the fuck you grew up, but there are no youth programs around here just giving kids baseball gloves and bats whenever they want to play. Theyve never done that around here, even when I was a kid.
Most pro black athletes come from the inner city. And thats where they have the least money and facilities. Thats why they dont play as much. Again, who says black youths aren't playing as much? You are making that up....
I live on the south side of Chicago....From the park districts to the Boys clubs.... from RBI, to other inner city driven sports organizations.....Equipment is provided for youths to play........free!
But let's move past the factual evidence I provided......
When did baseball become golf? Baseball is NOT a privileged sport.......All you need is some space, some cardboard bases, and a few gloves......The kids in the DR get it done just fine......Black people are not the poor, unmotivated, uncreative race you make them out to be.....Black youths in the inner city have gloves, they have bats, they play baseball!
TripleSkeet
03-22-2010, 07:29 PM
Again, who says black youths aren't playing as much? You are making that up....
I live on the south side of Chicago....From the park districts to the Boys clubs.... from RBI, to other inner city driven sports organizations.....Equipment is provided for youths to play........free!
But let's move past the factual evidence I provided......
When did baseball become golf? Baseball is NOT a privileged sport.......All you need is some space, some cardboard bases, and a few gloves......The kids in the DR get it done just fine......Black people are not the poor, unmotivated, uncreative race you make them out to be.....Black youths in the inner city have gloves, they have bats, they play baseball!
Yea but the most talented black child athletes go play basketball or football instead because the road to the pros is alot easier. Thats why they arent playing fucking baseball. Period. Yes blacks play baseball, but not nearly as many blacks play as whites or hispanics. They are the fucking minority in baseball. Period.
When your best athletes play another sport you arent going to have as many playing baseball. Its fucking simple, I dont see why youre not getting it. What was your reason that there were so few black pro baseball players?
The Bends
03-22-2010, 08:57 PM
When your best athletes play another sport you arent going to have as many playing baseball. Its fucking simple, I dont see why youre not getting it. What was your reason that there were so few black pro baseball players? Once again, you are assuming black people are choosing to play basketball and football, over baseball.....What evidence do you have supporting your claim?
Ok, I whooped your ass on the economic issue......so it seems we are past that....
There are more white people than black people in baseball, because white people are better at baseball.....Why is this so hard for you to admit????? Do you hate your skin that much?
It isn't a black people are better or worse at baseball than white people issue.
Tastes have changed and the majority of young athletes are gravitating toward the sports young people like. Baseball is, according to TV ratings, not as popular with young people as it used to be.
If the kids aren't interested in playing a sport, why would they have the equipment for it; much less the amount of equipment for a team of players?
TripleSkeet
03-22-2010, 10:39 PM
Once again, you are assuming black people are choosing to play basketball and football, over baseball.....What evidence do you have supporting your claim?
Ok, I whooped your ass on the economic issue......so it seems we are past that....
There are more white people than black people in baseball, because white people are better at baseball.....Why is this so hard for you to admit????? Do you hate your skin that much?
You didnt whoop anything. You are wrong you fucking meathead.
Like I said, cost to play baseball:
Glove: minimum $30 (per kid)
Bat: $25 (shared)
Balls: $10 (3 balls)
For 6 kids you are talking a total of $215. And then they have tio find a field that will let them play.
Basketball: $20 (shared)
Thats up to 10 players and there are courts everywhere.
The evidence I have that less black kids are playing baseball then white kids are in what I see. This is Philadelphia, if anything, we dont have a shortage of black people around here. Yet when you go to any of the little league games, either Sabres, Capitolo, or Babe Ruth you might see 1-2 black kids per GAME.
Heres an interesting article you should read...
http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-and-fitness-articles/the-lack-of-african-americans-in-baseball-1056681.html
The number of African Americans in baseball had been shrinking for more than 30 years, from a high of 27 percent of major leaguers in 1975 to an all time low of 8.2 percent in 2007. That 8.2 percent figure held steady in 2008 before Major League Baseball saw an uptick for the first time since 1975 this year when African Americans in baseball made up 10.2 percent of major league rosters.
While no one knows for sure why there was such a steep decline in African Americans in baseball for nearly 35 years, several theories have been put forward.
Basketball and football are more embedded in the African American culture. Baseball is perceived as slow and boring, leading the best athletes to other sports The better adolescent baseball players leave neighborhood ball at earlier ages to play on teams that travel hundreds of miles for games on weekends with paid coaches, sometimes pricing the sport out of the African American market Baseball success sometimes requires a greater level of individualized skill training than basketball or football, often with expensive private coaches involved, and that expense leads to a decline in the numbers of African Americans in baseball Baseball is far less glamorous a high school sport than football or basketball, which leads to the better athletes choosing sports which draw bigger crowds and receive greater local media coverage The space it takes for a full-sized baseball field is prohibitive in the urban areas with more dense African American populations. One can fit at least six basketball courts in the space required for one full sized baseball field.
The equipment expense to play youth baseball is much greater than the equipment expense to play youth basketball, which sets a price barrier that may be more acutely felt in the African American market.
Major League scouting in Latin America and Asia has increased since the 1990s, including the development of baseball academies in Latin America, which means there are fewer openings for African Americans in baseball.
Clearly, the payoff for winning at the major league level is so great, talent is so scarce, and there is so much money in the game (revenues topped $6.5 billion in 2008, compared to under $2 billion in 1995), that franchises cannot afford to let personal bias or prejudice affect their hunt for playing talent.
The problem of a decreasing presence of African Americans in baseball may be circular. As African American star power decreased on professional diamonds throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Black youth had fewer and fewer role models with whom they could relate. By the early 21st Century, some big league teams had no African American players on their rosters, which means entire pockets of the African American community could attend a baseball game or watch one on television and not see anyone with whom they could easily relate. Compare that to the experience of watching professional football or basketball on television. Young African Americans with athletic ability are more likely to want to be like Kobe or LeBron or Jason Taylor than Cole Hamels or Evan Longoria. As the African American community sees more of its own on the diamond, the interest in playing the game itself should grow and there would be more African Americans in the sport.
Major League Baseball (MLB) has set up a Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities (RBI) program, which is administered in cooperation with the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. Founded in 1989, MLB's RBI program now has a presence in more than 200 cities worldwide, and annually provides more than 100,000 boys and girls with the opportunity to play baseball and softball. RBI alumni currently playing in the Major Leagues include Carl Crawford (Tampa Bay Rays), Jimmy Rollins (Philadelphia Phillies), Coco Crisp (Kansas City Royals), and Dontrelle Willis (Detroit Tigers).
Clearly, MLB is concerned about the decrease in interest of African Americans in baseball and is spending money and effort to turn it around. Perhaps the small growth in 2009 is the beginning of a general ascent.
Serpico1103
03-23-2010, 04:15 AM
Owners are racist.
Owners are racist.
I was going to write this hypothesis off, but think about it... What if the MLB owners ALSO owned the little league...
And the bats were all coated in thermite paint!:happy:
realmenhatelife
03-23-2010, 06:55 AM
Ladies and gentleman......The coward....
Just answer the questions....
There's nothing cowardly about it and its actually pretty ironic for you to point out considering how much historical evidence you like to ignore. I understand how rhetoric works. You want the illusion that I've conceded a point by admitting that there are fewer black pitchers and quarterbacks, when in reality that point wouldn't advance your position that blacks are genetically poorer at baseball than whites. You're drawing a faulty, basic, reactionary conclusion on totally infantile observations. If there are fewer black pitchers then blacks arent as good at baseball. It's like me saying "I didn't see a single Ferrari driving home from work yesterday, therefore Ferrari is not a very good car brand."
You're not so much interested in arguing your points as just arguing, and it makes your points invalid. You've really Cumia'd this thread.
The Bends
03-23-2010, 08:15 PM
There's nothing cowardly about it and its actually pretty ironic for you to point out considering how much historical evidence you like to ignore. I understand how rhetoric works. You want the illusion that I've conceded a point by admitting that there are fewer black pitchers and quarterbacks, when in reality that point wouldn't advance your position that blacks are genetically poorer at baseball than whites. You're drawing a faulty, basic, reactionary conclusion on totally infantile observations. If there are fewer black pitchers then blacks arent as good at baseball. It's like me saying "I didn't see a single Ferrari driving home from work yesterday, therefore Ferrari is not a very good car brand."
You're not so much interested in arguing your points as just arguing, and it makes your points invalid. You've really Cumia'd this thread. Once again coward, answer these questions....
Why are poor kids in the Dominican Republican able to play baseball?
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Stop being so afraid!
The Bends
03-23-2010, 08:19 PM
You didnt whoop anything. You are wrong you fucking meathead.
Like I said, cost to play baseball:
Glove: minimum $30 (per kid)
Bat: $25 (shared)
Balls: $10 (3 balls)
For 6 kids you are talking a total of $215. And then they have tio find a field that will let them play.
Basketball: $20 (shared)
Thats up to 10 players and there are courts everywhere.
The evidence I have that less black kids are playing baseball then white kids are in what I see. This is Philadelphia, if anything, we dont have a shortage of black people around here. Yet when you go to any of the little league games, either Sabres, Capitolo, or Babe Ruth you might see 1-2 black kids per GAME.
Heres an interesting article you should read...
http://www.articlesbase.com/sports-and-fitness-articles/the-lack-of-african-americans-in-baseball-1056681.html So you post a random article, written by God knows who....and that's all you got? Seriously?
Once again, stop painting black people out to be poor people, with no ambition....it's not accurate....
POOR KIDS IN THE DOMINIC REPUBLIC ARE PLAYING BASEBALL.......AND SHOWING UP ON BASEBALL ROSTERS ON A RECORD PACE.......
BASEBALL IS NOT GOLF, LACROSSE, OR TENNIS.....
TripleSkeet
03-23-2010, 09:18 PM
So you post a random article, written by God knows who....and that's all you got? Seriously?
Once again, stop painting black people out to be poor people, with no ambition....it's not accurate....
POOR KIDS IN THE DOMINIC REPUBLIC ARE PLAYING BASEBALL.......AND SHOWING UP ON BASEBALL ROSTERS ON A RECORD PACE.......
BASEBALL IS NOT GOLF, LACROSSE, OR TENNIS.....
Youre a fucking moron. Im done with you.
The Bends
03-24-2010, 11:23 AM
Youre a fucking moron. Im done with you. Thanks for getting owned.... Come back soon!
brettmojo
03-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Rappers don't play baseball.
There's the answer.
realmenhatelife
03-24-2010, 11:44 AM
Once again coward, answer these questions....
Why are poor kids in the Dominican Republican able to play baseball?
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Stop being so afraid!
And this rhetorical scheme is where you try and put the person you're arguing with on the defensive to draw attention away from the valuelessness of everything you say.
I'd love for you to explain how whites outnumbering blacks in certain positions proves anything about your original point, that whites are better at all of baseball than blacks.
And the dominican thing was someone else, I wasn't talking about economics. While its a factor I bet the falling number of blacks in baseball has more to do with a rise in black role models in other sports, less adults available to coach and mentor young black kids, and stronger association with black culture in those sports.
There are a lot of latin role models in baseball, MLB has programs down there, they dont have the same restrictions as they would in America, they are less distracted by other sports, and they can play so much more down there.
The Bends
03-24-2010, 01:49 PM
And this rhetorical scheme is where you try and put the person you're arguing with on the defensive to draw attention away from the valuelessness of everything you say.
I'd love for you to explain how whites outnumbering blacks in certain positions proves anything about your original point, that whites are better at all of baseball than blacks.
And the dominican thing was someone else, I wasn't talking about economics. While its a factor I bet the falling number of blacks in baseball has more to do with a rise in black role models in other sports, less adults available to coach and mentor young black kids, and stronger association with black culture in those sports.
There are a lot of latin role models in baseball, MLB has programs down there, they dont have the same restrictions as they would in America, they are less distracted by other sports, and they can play so much more down there.
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Let's go pussy, answer.....
Furtherman
03-24-2010, 01:54 PM
Let's go pussy, answer.....
Shut it Bendy. You're not making any points and your character has grown tiresome.
StanUpshaw
03-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Let's go pussy, answer.....
Before anyone can even answer why, you have to prove that these assertions are even true.
You can research the baseball side if you'd like, but I'll save you the trouble for the NFL:
Whites do not dominate the quarterback position on a per capita basis.
On this list of the NFL's top 40 QBs (http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/rankings/qb), eight of them are black (20 percent).
In the United States, our black population is only 13.5 percent, meaning that statistically, blacks still out-perform whites, even among NFL quarterbacks.
TripleSkeet
03-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Let's go pussy, answer.....
Whites dominate most of baseball in general for the reasons I gave you. Most of the better black athletes gravitate towards basketball and football, even if they dont make it, by that time, its too late for baseball.
Whites dont dominate the QB position , they just happen to be better at it.
underdog
03-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Before anyone can even answer why, you have to prove that these assertions are even true.
You can research the baseball side if you'd like, but I'll save you the trouble for the NFL:
Whites do not dominate the quarterback position on a per capita basis.
On this list of the NFL's top 40 QBs (http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/rankings/qb), eight of them are black (20 percent).
In the United States, our black population is only 13.5 percent, meaning that statistically, blacks still out-perform whites, even among NFL quarterbacks.
Stop being such a coward, liberal!!!!
StanUpshaw
03-24-2010, 06:16 PM
Whites dominate most of baseball in general for the reasons I gave you. Most of the better black athletes gravitate towards basketball and football, even if they dont make it, by that time, its too late for baseball.
Whites dont dominate the QB position , they just happen to be better at it.
Again, that part is not even true. There is no position in football where blacks have a disproportionately small share of the marketplace, when compared to the population as a whole.
http://i41.tinypic.com/vdmfci.jpg
TripleSkeet
03-24-2010, 07:02 PM
Again, that part is not even true. There is no position in football where blacks have a disproportionately small share of the marketplace, when compared to the population as a whole.
http://i41.tinypic.com/vdmfci.jpg
You can put all the stats you want up, the only stat that tells me how great they are at the position is 43 Super Bowl Rings to 1.
You can make any argument you want, until that number changes, neither will my opinion.
StanUpshaw
03-24-2010, 07:08 PM
Ah. I thought we wanted to have an intelligent discussion.
My mistake entirely.
TripleSkeet
03-24-2010, 07:48 PM
Ah. I thought we wanted to have an intelligent discussion.
My mistake entirely.
Its an opinion. There no discussion that can change it. If someone said to me "white NBA power forwards are just as good as black ones", I would consider that equally ridiculous.
KnoxHarrington
03-24-2010, 07:56 PM
Stop being such a coward, liberal!!!!
Facts are for homos!
realmenhatelife
03-25-2010, 11:42 AM
Why do white players dominate the pitching position in baseball?
Why do white players dominate the QB position in football?
Let's go pussy, answer.....
Everyone knows you dont actually believe anything you're saying, which is why you cant make an argument. You're so consumed by irony that you have no real opinions, and think that anyone who does have an opinion is somehow a sucker. It's sad that you're so afraid to be wrong that you cant have a conversation like a human being.
I'm not going to get all upset at the internet like you want, and you're not going to get interesting or engaging like I want. I'm not interested in repeating myself, and thats all you're going to do, so the conversation has reached it logical conclusion. I feel good about it because I know how embarassingly outclassed you have been. And I know you need to claim some kind of 4 chan victory and say I'm a coward, I got pwned, post a funny picture of a kitten doing a face palm and all my bases are belong to you or whatever, and you should because thats all you can get over on me.
You really shouldn't just repeat the questions one more time, because that would be really really embarassing.
The Bends
03-25-2010, 01:16 PM
Before anyone can even answer why, you have to prove that these assertions are even true.
You can research the baseball side if you'd like, but I'll save you the trouble for the NFL:
Whites do not dominate the quarterback position on a per capita basis.
On this list of the NFL's top 40 QBs (http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/rankings/qb), eight of them are black (20 percent).
In the United States, our black population is only 13.5 percent, meaning that statistically, blacks still out-perform whites, even among NFL quarterbacks. Holy shit....you seriously won't concede the QB position to white people....
You people get lower and lower...
The Bends
03-25-2010, 01:17 PM
Everyone knows you dont actually believe anything you're saying, which is why you cant make an argument. You're so consumed by irony that you have no real opinions, and think that anyone who does have an opinion is somehow a sucker. It's sad that you're so afraid to be wrong that you cant have a conversation like a human being.
I'm not going to get all upset at the internet like you want, and you're not going to get interesting or engaging like I want. I'm not interested in repeating myself, and thats all you're going to do, so the conversation has reached it logical conclusion. I feel good about it because I know how embarassingly outclassed you have been. And I know you need to claim some kind of 4 chan victory and say I'm a coward, I got pwned, post a funny picture of a kitten doing a face palm and all my bases are belong to you or whatever, and you should because thats all you can get over on me.
You really shouldn't just repeat the questions one more time, because that would be really really embarassing. Answer the questions....
The Bends
03-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Shut it Bendy. You're not making any points and your character has grown tiresome.
Go away
StanUpshaw
03-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Holy shit....you seriously won't concede the QB position to white people....
You people get lower and lower...
Do you understand the difference between absolute numbers and relative numbers?
StanUpshaw
03-25-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm going to assume you don't, so allow me to explain.
You see, in this country we have a population of about 300 million people.
75% of them are white. 13.5% of them are black.
When you analyze a nationwide marketplace, a similar demographic distribution is to be expected. Indeed, in the marketplace of NFL quarterbacks, 20% of them are black (McNabb, Young, Garrard, Campbell, Freeman, Russell, Vick, Wallace), 5% of them are Latino (Sanchez & Romo), and the other 75% appear to be white.
So yes, there is a larger absolute number of white quarterbacks, but the distribution between the races is almost identical to the population at large (in fact, even among QBs, blacks have a disproportionately large share of the market). Therefore, the claim that "white players dominate the QB position," is completely false.
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