2010-11 MLB Offseason Thread

[TheGameHHH]

Let's talk hot stove issues that don't pertain to the teams that already have a thread.

Angels re-upped Abreu for 2 years today. Solid move on their part.

Let's go.

[NickyL0885]

I posted this in the Red Sox thread too:

Peter Gammons of ESPN.com is reporting that the Red Sox have acquired Jeremy Hermida from the Marlins in exchange for ptchers Jose Alvarez and Hunter Jones.

[IMSlacker]

Ted Lilly had shoulder surgery yesterday, so the Cubs' offseason is off to a great start.

[razorboy]

Well, Aki was kinda rendered useless with Zobrist's break out. We got a kid who can throw hard for a year's rental of a second baseman. Whatever.

[Marc with a c]

yankees should get mauer, pujols, holliday, halladay, carpenter, and sizemore.

[razorboy]

yankees should get mauer, pujols, holliday, halladay, carpenter, and sizemore.

The Yankees should trade with themselves for Sabathia.

[GregoryJoseph]

If the Reds could just go out and get ONE ace I think it would help their young pitchers tremendously.

[El Mudo]

If the Reds could just go out and get ONE ace I think it would help their young pitchers tremendously.



Not as long as this guy is their manager:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Dusty_Baker_talking_before_game.JPG/300px-Dusty_Baker_talking_before_game.JPG

[brettmojo]

yankees should get mauer, pujols, holliday, halladay, carpenter, and sizemore.
Yeah, but why get Carpenter when we can just get Felix from Seattle? We'll trade Jose Molina and a couple of barrels of baseballs.

[Marc with a c]

Yeah, but why get Carpenter when we can just get Felix from Seattle? We'll trade Jose Molina and a couple of barrels of baseballs.

i'd rather carpenter for igawa than giving up molina for felix.

[midwestjeff]

If the Reds could just go out and get ONE ace I think it would help their young pitchers tremendously.

The Cards released Brad Thompson.

Jocketty is probably all over that shit.

[brettmojo]

Wow did the Brewers get fuckin' ROBBED.

[PD]

Wow did the Brewers get fuckin' ROBBED.
how JJ Hardy has fallen.

[TheMojoPin]

Wow did the Brewers get fuckin' ROBBED.

Yeah, no kidding. Hardy is no superstar, but I'm baffled as to how they thought this was a good idea. As soon as they trade away Fielder it's basically going to be Braun and a big pile of crap.

The Brewers = the new Pirates.

[underdog]

As soon as they trade away Fielder it's basically going to be Braun and a big pile of crap.

That's not a nice thing to call epo.

[Kevin]

Yeah, no kidding. Hardy is no superstar, but I'm baffled as to how they thought this was a good idea. As soon as they trade away Fielder it's basically going to be Braun and a big pile of crap.

The Brewers = the new Pirates.



Epo seemed very happy about this, according to his facebook.

[epo]

The Brewers = the new Pirates.

You couldn't be any dumber.

[epo]

So what's with the White Sox getting Teahan for Chris Getz & Josh Fields?

[Meataball23]

Wow did the Brewers get fuckin' ROBBED.

I was reading about this on espn, apparently the crew loves their ss in the minors and now they get to save 7m and I guess that frees up some extra cash to sign Prince.


Although I kinda think the Giants should trade Matt Cain for Prince

[epo]

I was reading about this on espn, apparently the crew loves their ss in the minors and now they get to save 7m and I guess that frees up some extra cash to sign Prince.



Hardy had no place with the organization as they are going to start Alcides Escobar at shortstop in 2010. Hardy also refused to move to 3B. Now put together his terrible year (in which he was sent to the minors for sucking), that created a drop in his market value.

Adding Gomez gives them a centerfielder to replace Mike Cameron and adds alot of speed (with Escobar) to a lineup that is far too dependent upon the 3-run homer.

Fiscally they trim Hardy's $6-7 M and Cameron's $10M for $17M that they can use elsewhere, such as pitching.

[K.C.]

Hardy had no place with the organization as they are going to start Alcides Escobar at shortstop in 2010. Hardy also refused to move to 3B. Now put together his terrible year (in which he was sent to the minors for sucking), that created a drop in his market value.

Adding Gomez gives them a centerfielder to replace Mike Cameron and adds alot of speed (with Escobar) to a lineup that is far too dependent upon the 3-run homer.

Fiscally they trim Hardy's $6-7 M and Cameron's $10M for $17M that they can use elsewhere, such as pitching.


Gomez sucks a fat one, though.

They couldn't get anymore than that for Hardy?

This is almost as bad as the Iwamura move.

[epo]

They couldn't get anymore than that for Hardy?

I assume not. Hardy is one of those guys who people seem to overvalue based upon his all-star season rather than his total body of work.

[PD]

Hardy had no place with the organization as they are going to start Alcides Escobar at shortstop in 2010. Hardy also refused to move to 3B. Now put together his terrible year (in which he was sent to the minors for sucking), that created a drop in his market value.

Adding Gomez gives them a centerfielder to replace Mike Cameron and adds alot of speed (with Escobar) to a lineup that is far too dependent upon the 3-run homer.

Fiscally they trim Hardy's $6-7 M and Cameron's $10M for $17M that they can use elsewhere, such as pitching.

This is what I heard
Gomez sucks a fat one, though.

They couldn't get anymore than that for Hardy?

This is almost as bad as the Iwamura move.

As for what they were going to get, rumors abounded that Hardy was going to be non-tendered do the offers weren't piling up. Also Gomez isn't that awful. He is Fast, good defensively and young. He may wind up to be nothing ,but he'll be 24 in December and still can be a useful player.

[K.C.]

As for what they were going to get, rumors abounded that Hardy was going to be non-tendered do the offers weren't piling up. Also Gomez isn't that awful. He is Fast, good defensively and young. He may wind up to be nothing ,but he'll be 24 in December and still can be a useful player.

Brewers better have a hell of a hitting coach, because his at-bats are horrendous.

At the very least, he should start the year in Triple-A.

[KnoxHarrington]

Interesting little piece on CNN's sports page about how the Yankees might not be having the spending spree we're used to:

The Yankees found $181 million lying around last offseason, and made a late, victorious bid to corral Mark Teixeira, so never say never when it comes to the Yankees and spending. But the initial read as the winter bazaar opens is that the Yankees do not intend to make a play for the three biggest free agents: Jason Bay, Matt Holliday and John Lackey. This is not about need, because corner outfield and starting pitcher are priorities to fortify what is now a champion. But based on conversations with multiple Yankees officials, I sense that financially and philosophically the Yankees will not big-game hunt in free agency.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/127151-yankees-to-pass-on-free-agents?eref=sihp

I'm filing this squarely in the "We'll see about that" category, but you've gotta think that even the Yankees could eventually hit a wall with their spending.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Pettitte retires that might open the door to acquire Lackey. Wouldnt be surprised if that happens. Theres also the Matsui/Damon factor one of them wont be back. Posada could even be DH in some games next year

[underdog]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/11/500x_sammywhite.jpg

[TheGameHHH]

Manny has decided to exercise his $20 million option and will be back in L.A. next season

[brettmojo]

Manny has decided to exercise his $20 million option and will be back in L.A. next season
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

[TheMojoPin]

You couldn't be any dumber.

Sure I could. I could be a Brewers fan.

Gomez is fucking horrendous. He has had any sustained quality production on any level. Have fun in the cellar for the forseeable future, creepo.

And no, Prince is not resigning in Milwuakee. LIVE IN THE NOW.

[epo]

blah, blah, blah.

Look at me, I'm the MojoPin and I cheer for the shitty Cubs.

We know, ya damned maniac.

[TheMojoPin]

You guys becoming the new Pirates is perfectly timed with old Pirates finally getting a bunch of decent young players. The 100-loss season is right around the corner! The few fans that still show up, however, will be distracted by the meat races and the failure slide while Ryan Braun curses himself for being even dumber than he usually is for signing that shitty extension. Bread and circuses. Just go back to the AL where the "people don't give a shit"-quotient for the Brewers is marginally less oppressive.

[El Mudo]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/11/500x_sammywhite.jpg

Is that Sosa? He looks like Desi Arnaz.

[TheMojoPin]

He's been zombified.

[brettmojo]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/11/500x_sammywhite.jpg
http://www.boiseweekly.com/images/blogimages/2009/08/21/1250886166-michael_jackson.jpg

[epo]

You guys becoming the new Pirates is perfectly timed with old Pirates finally getting a bunch of decent young players. The 100-loss season is right around the corner! The few fans that still show up, however, will be distracted by the meat races and the failure slide while Ryan Braun curses himself for being even dumber than he usually is for signing that shitty extension. Bread and circuses. Just go back to the AL where the "people don't give a shit"-quotient for the Brewers is marginally less oppressive.

You are like a young Blowhard, except way less fun.

[TheMojoPin]

Why do you guys even bother having a roof? Everything still gets all soaked and humid from all the cheese and processed meat-sweat.

[razorboy]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/11/500x_sammywhite.jpg

He has a little bit of a Jocelyn Wildenstein thing going on. Good for him.

[epo]

Blah, blah, blah. I'm MojoPin the stupid Cubs fan. I only wish I was as good at shock posting as Lord Jezo!

Exactly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Dodgers front office is becoming a war of the roses with The divorce of Frank and Jamie McCourt. Under CA law shes entitled to half. Furthermore theres a 600+ page deposition against Jamie saying that she was incompetent etc. She was fired along with 7 executives she hired. While the Baseball operations isnt affected this is still bad for the organization

[GregoryJoseph]

Last night I dreamed the Cincinnati Reds met the Texas Rangers in the 2010 World Series.

You heard it here first.

[IMSlacker]

Last night I dreamed the Cincinnati Reds met the Texas Rangers in the 2010 World Series.

You heard it here first.

In your dream, was it the least watched World Series ever?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Rollins seems to think the Phillies are still the better team

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/11/05/2009-11-05_philadelphias_jimmy_rollins_phillies_are_still_ better_than_new_york_yankees.html

Reminds me of this guy

http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/images/baghdad_bob.jpg

[K.C.]

As for eating crow? "They were the better team this series," Rollins said Wednesday night. "Do I think we're the better team? I really do. They just executed. I think we weren't playing bad, but they were playing that much better. ... They got the hits, we didn't. It's that simple."


Why is that quote worthy of an article?

This is why the New York papers are horrendous.

[Kevin]

Why is that quote worthy of an article?

This is why the New York papers are horrendous.



Yea, i really find nothing wrong with that comment.

Everyone thinks they are better than anyone else.

But being that he stunk up the joint after he made a stupid prediction, he should pipe down.

I would have no problem with Lee Werth or Utley making those comments, though i don't have that big a problem with Rollins making it either.

Its just the NY papers trying to make a story on a slow sports week after the WS. The Knicks being an embaressment and nothing football til tomorrow morning after the games.

[Kevin]

Patrick Ewing always said this shit after losing to the Bulls.

[K.C.]

Yea, i really find nothing wrong with that comment.

Everyone thinks they are better than anyone else.

But being that he stunk up the joint after he made a stupid prediction, he should pipe down.

I would have no problem with Lee Werth or Utley making those comments, though i don't have that big a problem with Rollins making it either.

Its just the NY papers trying to make a story on a slow sports week after the WS. The Knicks being an embaressment and nothing football til tomorrow morning after the games.


But I would almost guarantee that the question he was asked wasn't in the context of "Hey, Jimmy, are you going to eat crow?"

I've seen this happen enough times (especially in the Post and Daily News which I'll read during baseball season), where they cherry picked that to fit the tone of the article they wanted to write.

He was probably asked about the series and he said "They were the better team this series" and then so on with the rest of the quote.

That would read much less inflammatory than the whole unapologetic, defiant spin they put on it.



The whole thing is Mariotti-esque.

[Kevin]

But I would almost guarantee that the question he was asked wasn't in the context of "Hey, Jimmy, are you going to eat crow?"

I've seen this happen enough times (especially in the Post and Daily News which I'll read during baseball season), where they cherry picked that to fit the tone of the article they wanted to write.

He was probably asked about the series and he said "They were the better team this series" and then so on with the rest of the quote.

That would read much less inflammatory than the whole unapologetic, defiant spin they put on it.




The whole thing is Mariotti-esque.

WHAT???

NY Papers taking quotes and spinning them?

NEVER!

[GregoryJoseph]

I would have no problem with Lee Werth or Utley making those comments, though i don't have that big a problem with Rollins making it either.

Who is that?

The trainer?

[Kevin]

Who is that?

The trainer?

Wow Gregory...

Have you stooped so low and become a member of the grammer police?

Whats next for you... MOD?

[GregoryJoseph]

I think Eddie Damon had a good series.

Louie Jeter too.

[Kevin]

I think Eddie Damon had a good series.

Louie Jeter too.

Those would both be starting on your Reds.

[TheMojoPin]

Patrick Ewing always said this shit after losing to the Bulls.

If only he had been Patrick Chewing and just taken it to the hole.

[Kevin]

If only he had been Patrick Chewing and just taken it to the hole.

He would have been swatted away by Ryan.

[FebruaryEast]

Lots of stuffs going down already.

[TheGameHHH]

yep. and its already in the offseason thread i started

[cougarjake13]

in before the lock or merge

[Knowledged_one]

Prince Fielder will be traded to the orioles for a bunch of young arms not named Tillman or Matusz

[epo]

Prince Fielder will be traded to the orioles for a bunch of young arms not named Tillman or Matusz

That's the worst fanboy prediction in the history of fanboy predictions I've seen in quite some time.

[Knowledged_one]

That's the worst fanboy prediction in the history of fanboy predictions I've seen in quite some time.

Not really he wants out of Milwaukee, the Orioles need a 1B, and the Orioles farm system is stocked pretty well with prospects especially pitchers.

Guys like Jake Arrieta, Brendan Erbe, but yeah i could be wrong they may have to throw in Matusz or Tillman but its not even close to a fanboy prediction. They even talked to them about Fielder last year

[epo]

Not really he wants out of Milwaukee, the Orioles need a 1B, and the Orioles farm system is stocked pretty well with prospects especially pitchers.

Guys like Jake Arrieta, Brendan Erbe, but yeah i could be wrong they may have to throw in Matusz or Tillman but its not even close to a fanboy prediction. They even talked to them about Fielder last year

The reason I call it a fanboy prediction is that the Brewers have already announced that Fielder. Doesn't get moved this winter.

Also, you completely made up the "Fielder wants out" crap. Weak sauce my friend.

[IMSlacker]

Also, you completely made up the "Fielder wants out" crap. Weak sauce my friend.

It's a reasonable assumption. Any sane person would want out of Milwaukee.

[TheMojoPin]

Also, you completely made up the "Fielder wants out" crap. Weak sauce my friend.

I would assume that a hitter as good as Fielder wants to get paid. The Brewers are owned by a bunch of cheap inbreds. It's not much of a leap to assume he'll be gone once his deal is up if he hasn't been traded already.

[Freitag]

Boras wants a 4 year deal for Damon at "Derek Jeter Money" (read, 20 million a year).

No way in hell he gets that.

He'll get 2 years, 10-12 mill per year. He's making 16 mill now. He's not getting a RAISE. He's on the back end of his career.

[TheMojoPin]

I dread that the Cubs will be the suckers to pay Damon stupid money for having his career prolonged from playing in a fucking bandbox.

[epo]

It's a reasonable assumption. Any sane person would want out of Milwaukee.

I would assume that a hitter as good as Fielder wants to get paid. The Brewers are owned by a bunch of cheap inbreds. It's not much of a leap to assume he'll be gone once his deal is up if he hasn't been traded already.

Oh look, Cubs fans can assume things they don't know.

[TheMojoPin]

Everybody knows. It's not like the Brewers are some kind of secret shame.

[epo]

2009 AL MVP

Twins’ Joe Mauer Earns 27 of 28 1st-Place Votes (http://bbwaa.com/)

So Joe Mauer is first and nobody else was even close. I might just believe in a God again.

[HBox]

2009 AL MVP

Twins’ Joe Mauer Earns 27 of 28 1st-Place Votes (http://bbwaa.com/)

So Joe Mauer is first and nobody else was even close. I might just believe in a God again.

His season was so insane even those fucktards couldn't screw it up. Although whoever that idiot was who didn't give him a first place vote should be thrown out.

[Marc with a c]

i wish joe mauer was on the mets.

[epo]

i wish joe mauer was on the mets.

Why would you wish such a horrible fate on that man?

[KingModem]

His season was so insane even those fucktards couldn't screw it up. Although whoever that idiot was who didn't give him a first place vote should be thrown out.

I am sure it was Steve Kornacki. He is a fuckhead Detroit-bias bastard that should have his voting privileges revoked.

Congrats to Joe Mauer, my next favorite player to leave my city for the Northeast.

[epo]

I am sure it was Steve Kornacki. He is a fuckhead Detroit-bias bastard that should have his voting privileges revoked.

Congrats to Joe Mauer, my next favorite player to leave my city for the Northeast.

That would explain the first place vote for Miguel Cabrera.

[Marc with a c]

That would explain the first place vote for Miguel Cabrera.

and the polanco ninth place vote.

[disneyspy]

Friggin Verlander Was The Best Player On The Tigers Last Year,what A Waste Of A First Place Vote!

[KingModem]

Friggin Verlander Was The Best Player On The Tigers Last Year,what A Waste Of A First Place Vote!

Oh, Verlander got his vote from Kornacki for Cy Young. If the candidate that is better than his hometown team's candidate is in the AL Central, goes with the hometown vote. Very irresponsible to choose Verlander over Greinke for Cy Young, and Cabrera over Mauer for MVP.

[Kevin]

Cabrera had a terrible last week when the team needed him most.

Voters who vote irresposibly should have their voting privlages taken away from them.

[underdog]

His season was so insane even those fucktards couldn't screw it up. Although whoever that idiot was who didn't give him a first place vote should be thrown out.

I'm actually surprised the other vote wasn't for Jeter.

[TheMojoPin]

The White Sox signed Andruw Jones for a 1-year deal at $500k with incentives.

He's obviously fallen way off from his glory days with the Braves, but he did post a decent line last year of .214/.323/.459 with 17 HR. His BABIP was only .221 so if he gets a little more lucky he is easily an .800+ OPS guy. Pretty decent option to have to DH sometimes or have off the bench for basically league minimum.

[KnoxHarrington]

Your Class of 2010 Hall of Fame ballot is here. The most notable first-time candidates are Roberto Alomar, Edgar Martinez, Barry Larkin, and Fred McGriff. The returning candidates that got the most votes last time are Andre Dawson, who missed by 44 votes in the 2009 voting, and Bert Blyleven, who missed by 67.

I can see Dawson and Blyleven possibly making it this time, but I don't see any of the first-timers getting in, because the HOF voters have pretty much made it policy that you'd better be one of the all time greats if you're going to get in first ballot. I also wouldn't be shocked if no one gets elected this year, though my suspicion is that they'll want to put at least one in.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/11/27/hof.ballot/index.html

[Justice4all]

Aside from the MVP this seems to be his best year ever. 4 awards and a world series title.
We're watching a living legend take the field year in and year out. 1st ballot H.O.F.er and will most likely go down as one of, if not the, greatest Yankees of all time. And considering who is on that list, that is quite an accomplishment.

God I will hate for the day that he retires.
Long live the Captain!

Jeter named S.I. Sportsman of the Year...first Yankee to ever claim that award. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/sportsman/2009/11/25/derek.jeter/index.html)

[TheMojoPin]

Chip Caray is awful...and fired. (http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/chip-caray-and-tbs-part-ways/)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In one of the 1st major moves during the offseason Chone Figgins goes to the M's

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=An6W0gM725iBJiDZ_AMSkgwRvLYF?slug=ap-mariners-figgins&prov=ap&type=lgns

[cougarjake13]

heard there was a rumored 3 team trade of bradley to rays, castillo to cubs and burrell to mets but its not up anymore

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Listened to Ch 175, Looks like Anaheim is interested in Bay. Boston inked Scutero for 2 yrs

[TheMojoPin]

heard there was a rumored 3 team trade of bradley to rays, castillo to cubs and burrell to mets but its not up anymore

Why the fuck would the Mets want Burrell? He's not even useful as a DH at this point.

[epo]

Sounds like Randy Wolf to Milwaukee for 3 years/$25MM. I don't know whether to like or hate this move.

[TheMojoPin]

He's managed a WHIP under 1.300 precisely once in the last 6 seasons and had his career year when he moved to the NL West and their gigantic pitchers' parks...so it's probably pretty safe to hate it. Is that last year a club option?

[epo]

He's managed a WHIP under 1.300 precisely once in the last 6 seasons and had his career year when he moved to the NL West and their gigantic pitchers' parks...so it's probably pretty safe to hate it. Is that last year a club option?

It sounded like a hard three years.

I hate buying pitching.

[disneyspy]

It sounded like a hard three years.

I hate buying pitching.

do you like to buy catchers?

guess dahlmer didnt clean out milwaukee

[Kevin]

It sounded like a hard three years.

I hate buying pitching.

But you sure like buying refs.

That pass Interference call was utter nonsene.

[lleeder]

Why are the Yankees willing to give up so much for granderson?

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091207&content_id=7771620&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

[disneyspy]

Why are the Yankees willing to give up so much for granderson?

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091207&content_id=7771620&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

cuz granderson has a great glove and speed

[disneyspy]

plus i think grandy lead the league in leadoff HRs

[TheMojoPin]

Granderson is a decent player but he's definitely overvalued. If it weren't for the defense he'd have to be a platoon player because he's all but useless against lefties. Here's his career numbers against southpaws:

.210 .270 .344 .614

And he is not getting any better against them, as his 2009 showed:

.183 .245 .239 .484

It's also worth nothing that after his amazing season at age 26 he's shown significant decline in the next two years.

2007: .302 .361 .552 .913

2008: .280 .365 .494 .858

2009: .249 .327 .453 .780

That's definitely worrisome with a player of his age since it might be indicating that teams are figuring him out.

One thing to watch out for is how he'll do not having to play as many games in a park that tends to favor pitchers like Comerica. Yankee Stadium is definitely looking to be a band box so he might be able to reverse the trend in his numbers by playing there.

All of that said, this is a lot to give up for him.

[PhishHead]

I would trade for Mojo

[TheMojoPin]

I would sign Phishy to an outrageous contract with a no-trade clause.

[PhishHead]

I really don't understand all the hype with granderson. He had that one good year, and wasn't it a contract year as well? He is great in the field, but his numbers against lefties are atrocious. Especially after all the hype they have put behind Austin Jackson and how he is untouchable. This is a bad deal I think.

[PhishHead]

I would sign Phishy to an outrageous contract with a no-trade clause.

I accept!

[PD]

I dunno if mentioned elsewhere, but Peter Gammons is leaving ESPN

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/215504/peter-gammons-leaving-espn

[joeyballsack]

Detroit made out pretty well in this trade it looks like to me.

[TheMojoPin]

Detroit made out pretty well in this trade it looks like to me.

Yeah, both Detroit and NYC did alright but I can't figure out why the fuck Arizona wanted to get in on this. They definitely got the raw end in this threeway.

[sailor]

Didn't mojo spend all last off-season saying how sabathia would suck?

[TheMojoPin]

Didn't mojo spend all last off-season saying how sabathia would suck?

Where did I declare that Granderson will suck? I pointed out his declining stat trends, how he sucks against lefties but then conceded that he could turn around his decline playing more games at the hitting friendly Yankee Stadium.

God, you're the worst.

[TheMojoPin]

Bah.

[PD]

Yeah, both Detroit and NYC did alright but I can't figure out why the fuck Arizona wanted to get in on this. They definitely got the raw end in this threeway.

basically what Keith Law says.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4725306&name=law_keith

I have no idea what Arizona's motivation for this deal is.

by the way, is it official anywhere? i just see "close"

[Mitch&Murray]

I think one of the pitchers the D backs get is Mark Schlereth from ESPN football's son.

[Kevin]

I accept!



You would have to throw in the complete collection of Dashboard Confessional.

[Kevin]

Detroit made out pretty well in this trade it looks like to me.



Meh, Coke is always out of shape and his numbers were awful towards the end and the playoffs.

Austin Jackson has not developed the power needed to become a major star. Last year he hit Nine Hrs.

Kennedy was never gunna make it here.

[Marc with a c]

Didn't mojo spend all last off-season saying how sabathia would suck?

didn't you spend all last off season putting magic 8 balls in your butt?

[Marc with a c]

kennedy will be pretty good in this league. write it on a rock.

[Kevin]

kennedy will be pretty good in this league. write it on a rock.



He may very well be, but i don't think it was ever going to happen here.

[Kevin]

didn't you spend all last off season putting magic 8 balls in your butt?



On the Jersey Shore.

[Mitch&Murray]

Granderson IS locked up fairly cheaply through 2012.

[epo]

I dunno if mentioned elsewhere, but Peter Gammons is leaving ESPN

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/215504/peter-gammons-leaving-espn

Good. Keep that idiot off my television.

[brettmojo]

Good. Keep that idiot off my television.
Don't plan on watching MLB network next season then.

[TheGameHHH]

HATE that they gave up Jackson but i'll obviously live with it. I like the deal.

[sailor]

Where did I declare that Granderson will suck? I pointed out his declining stat trends, how he sucks against lefties but then conceded that he could turn around his decline playing more games at the hitting friendly Yankee Stadium.

God, you're the worst.

1. So you're wishy-washy?

2. Where did I declare that you declared that?

Or

3. That didn't answer the question.

[sailor]

didn't you spend all last off season putting magic 8 balls in your butt?

reply hazy, try again

[Marc with a c]

reply hazy, try again

rubik cubes?

[epo]

Don't plan on watching MLB network next season then.

Fuck. I was praying to a higher power that I'd never heard his retarded "trade rumors" again.

[TheMojoPin]

1. So you're wishy-washy?

2. Where did I declare that you declared that?

Or

3. That didn't answer the question.

1. You're scum.

2. I hope you die.

3. I didn't make a conclusion about Granderson. I said he's showing worrisome signs of decline, but playing in the band box that the Yanks live in could reverse some of that.

4. I don't remember what I said about Sabathia. Odds are I pointed out signing a guy that fat and who has shown signs of not being able to pull things out when ridden to the playoffs isn't necessarily something a team will be happy with for the last few years of a long contract.

[TheMojoPin]

Supposedly the Marlins turned down Neftali Feliz and Justin Smoak for Josh Johnson, which leads me to believe that they're run by somebody really dumb.

[midwestjeff]

Carpenter, Wainwright, Penny, Lohse, Garcia.

Now find a way to fill left without re-signing Holliday and I will be happy.

[GregoryJoseph]

I've got a feeling Cincy is going to pull off a MONSTER deal.

[razorboy]

Rafael Soriano to the Rays for Jesse Chavez. (http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2009-12-10/braves-move-quickly-agree-deal-soriano-rays)

If true, Frank Wren and the Braves just took a prison romance without lube.

[Suspect Chin]

Carpenter, Wainwright, Penny, Lohse, Garcia.

Now find a way to fill left without re-signing Holliday and I will be happy.

Juan Encarnacion?

[Fallon]

It looks like Texas will trade Max Ramirez for Mike Lowell with the Sox paying much of Lowell's contract.

I don't get it.

[A.J.]

It looks like Texas will trade Max Ramirez for Mike Lowell with the Sox paying much of Lowell's contract.

I don't get it.

Then they go after Adrian Beltre.

[lleeder]

mets offer bay 4 yrs 65 million

[Marc with a c]

bay turns down four year 65 million from the mets.

[lleeder]

mets offer bay 66 million

[razorboy]

Bay exploring opportunities in the Mexican League.

[Marc with a c]

bay hospitalized after suicide attempt.

[lleeder]

Mets increase offer to include 4 yr subscription to mobcandy (http://www.mobcandymag.com/)

[Marc with a c]

with an option for a cover the fifth year.

[Mitch&Murray]

Bay detained by INS at Mexican border suspected of attempted drug trafficing while exploring options.

[Marc with a c]

bay being held on $200,000 bail after punching a short fat tan girl in new jersey. claims it was a misfired fist pump.

[razorboy]

Text messages between Jason Bay and Bengie Molina intercepted involving a murder-suicide pact.

[foodcourtdruide]

I can't hide it anymore...

I am ADDICTED to the mets.com messageboard. For those who believe this is a "hater" or "negative" board, please check out that messageboard. I'm not the world's biggest Minaya fan, but the people on that board HATE everything he does, even things he's just rumored to be doing and they act as if they have some psychic insight into his mind and all his thoughts are ultimately leading towards the unhappiness of each member.

There are people on the board that truly think the Bay contract offer was only made to appease Mets fan and the Mets know he will decline. That is borderline psychotic.

[TheMojoPin]

Any of the official message boards for the baseball teams are comedy gold.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Granderson just might be trade bait for the Yankees to get Halladay, wouldnt surprise me. I just cant see him being traded to the Rays to be rented for a year

[PD]

I can't hide it anymore...

I am ADDICTED to the mets.com messageboard. For those who believe this is a "hater" or "negative" board, please check out that messageboard. I'm not the world's biggest Minaya fan, but the people on that board HATE everything he does, even things he's just rumored to be doing and they act as if they have some psychic insight into his mind and all his thoughts are ultimately leading towards the unhappiness of each member.

There are people on the board that truly think the Bay contract offer was only made to appease Mets fan and the Mets know he will decline. That is borderline psychotic.

you mean at mets.com or metsblog.com?

[Kevin]

Wait, wait,wait...

Someone actualy gave Brad Penny, 7.5 million????

BRAD PENNY???

[Kevin]

Granderson just might be trade bait for the Yankees to get Halladay, wouldnt surprise me. I just cant see him being traded to the Rays to be rented for a year



Thats just silly.

[Suspect Chin]

Wait, wait,wait...

Someone actualy gave Brad Penny, 7.5 million????

BRAD PENNY???

Yeah I broke the news in the NL Central thread days ago.

Why does everyone get so outraged at what teams are paying guys? Almost every team has a shitload of money, there is no salary cap, and Saint Louis is a major baseball city. Stop acting shocked like money even really matters anymore for these teams.

Unless of course you root for Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay...

[PD]

Yeah I broke the news in the NL Central thread days ago.

Why does everyone get so outraged at what teams are paying guys? Almost every team has a shitload of money, there is no salary cap, and Saint Louis is a major baseball city. Stop acting shocked like money even really matters anymore for these teams.

Unless of course you root for Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay...
what is surprising is that the Cards did it-
they are pretty savvy usually on pitching- and everyone else thought Penny was shot.

[foodcourtdruide]

you mean at mets.com or metsblog.com?

Mets.com. They have a messageboard.

[razorboy]

and everyone else thought Penny was shot.

He is.

[Suspect Chin]

what is surprising is that the Cards did it-
they are pretty savvy usually on pitching- and everyone else thought Penny was shot.

Starting pitching is extremely scarce this year (like every year...) and I think John Mozeliak, Dave Duncan, Tony LaRussa, etc. think they are really close to having a World Series roster. I hate the Cardinals, but I thought they were WS bound last year. For them to spend extra money right now to try to make a run doesn't shock me.

They should be focusing on resigning Holliday though. Scott Boras is pretty much burning in effigy in this town right now.

[Suspect Chin]

He is.

He pitched really well for the Giants last year in limited starts.

[IMSlacker]

You people are forgetting Dave Duncan's pact with Satan. I expect Brad Penny to be a Cy Young contender this next year.

[Suspect Chin]

You people are forgetting Dave Duncan's pact with Satan. I expect Brad Penny to be a Cy Young contender this next year.

Exactly. Clubs should be competing to steal Duncan away from the Cards, not Holliday.

[midwestjeff]

You people are forgetting Dave Duncan's pact with Satan. I expect Brad Penny to be a Cy Young contender this next year.

The sad thing for Penny is that he'll finish third behind Carp and Waino.

God, it must really suck to be a Cubs fan.

Also, the offer is on the table for Matt "I can't catch routine flyballs in the playoffs" Holliday.
I hope he declines it. I'd rather have ol' One Eye Encarnacion out there, as Chin suggested the other day in the central thread.

[spoon]

Yeah I broke the news in the NL Central thread days ago.

Why does everyone get so outraged at what teams are paying guys? Almost every team has a shitload of money, there is no salary cap, and Saint Louis is a major baseball city. Stop acting shocked like money even really matters anymore for these teams.

Unless of course you root for Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay...

What?! Outside of a few teams, most lose player after player bc the costs are too high to even come close to making a profit. When JJ Putz is getting 3 million bucks to suck it up with 5+ era as a reliever out there every 4th day for 2/3 of an inning, something is amiss.

[midwestjeff]

What?! Outside of a few teams, most lose player after player bc the costs are too high to even come close to making a profit. When JJ Putz is getting 3 million bucks to suck it up with 5+ era as a reliever out there every 4th day for 2/3 of an inning, something is amiss.

No, it's not.

There are more than "a few" teams that can compete in the market.

Fuck the Royals and the Pirates, every league needs a punching bag.

[K.C.]

An open letter to Red Sox fans:

Dear Red Sox fans,

If you want to earn my respect, please actively kick off the bandwagon and viciously denounce every douchebag that gave rise to "the Nation"...by that, I mean, every jackass who suddenly discovered their "long lost affinity for the Sox", and their "latent Red Sox fan gene" in 2004.

They have spread like a plague, and they do no service to you real Red Sox fans.

Disown and crush them...they are found frequently on college campuses and in sports bars all around the country...they're not from Boston...they didn't grow up Boston fans...they know nothing about the team, and the only coherent sentences they can form are "fuck the Yankees, they spend too much....go SAWX! (with fake Boston accent)."

You have your mission statement for 2010.

Love,
K.C.

[razorboy]

Dear Phillies fans,

Please read an open letter to Red Sox fans and act accordingly.

Love,
Everyone

[IMSlacker]

God, it must really suck to be a Cubs fan.

The fact that Dave Duncan and his son Chris will spend eternity consumed by hellfire makes it easier.

[midwestjeff]

The fact that Dave Duncan and his son Chris will spend eternity consumed by hellfire makes it easier.

Always focused on things other than your team.

Typical.

Besides, Dave Duncan is a saint, just like me.

[K.C.]

Dear Phillies fans,

Please read an open letter to Red Sox fans and act accordingly.

Love,
Everyone

Different circumstances...Phillies fans are just drunk and belligerent wherever they go. But there are no "new-found" Phillies fans outside the Philadelphia area that aren't originally from there, or are transplants.

People hate the city and the fans. We're nature's heels.


The Boston thing has taken on a life of its own, though....and surpassed any threshold of obnoxiousness.

[Suspect Chin]

The fact that Dave Duncan and his son Chris will spend eternity consumed by hellfire makes it easier.

How about young Shelley?

[Mitch&Murray]

Sox have a bridge to sell us Fans shouldn’t buy this approach
By Dan Shaughnessy
Globe Columnist / December 10, 2009

Do not buy the bill of goods the Red Sox are selling.

John Henry and Theo Epstein are preparing you for the Big Slide. While they continue to raise ticket prices and drain every dollar out of Fenway, they are telling you to put your expectations on the shelf. No more “championship-driven’’ campaign for your Red Sox. The Sox are building a “bridge’’ for the future. They are giving up on competing with those big, bad Yankees.

What a joke. First we had Sarah Palin’s Bridge to Nowhere. Then we had Bob Kraft donating thousands to Deval Patrick in an obvious (thus far, failed) effort to get the government to pay for a $9 million bridge to connect a couple of his parking lots. Now it’s Theo selling his bridge between championship seasons.

Please. Sounds to me like a bridge over troubled waters.

In an e-mail to the Globe’s Amalie Benjamin last month Henry explained that the Sox might not be as good this year, writing, “Those reali ties are a function of available talent and age-related transitioning once again, as we did prior to 2007.’’

Tuesday at the winter meetings in Indianapolis, Epstein hammered at the same theme with “we’re kind of in a bridge period. We still think that if we push some of the right buttons, we can be competitive at the very highest levels for the next two years. But we don’t want to compromise too much of the future for that competitiveness during the bridge period.’’

Translation: Don’t expect us to make any big deals. We don’t want to spend any more money on payroll. We’ve already blown enough on the likes of Matt Clement, Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, J.D. Drew, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Smoltz, and Brad Penny. Let the Yankees spend the money. We’re not going to compete with them anymore.

So keep ponying up the dough for those Fenway tours and wait for our “kids.’’ You’re gonna love Jose Iglesias, Ryan Kalish, Ryan Westmoreland, Casey Kelly, and Lars Anderson, but they are a couple of years away.

Just like Juan Bustabad was always a couple of years away.

I’m not buying. The Sox have the dough to sign Matt Holliday or Jason Bay. Just like they had the money to bag Mark Teixeira last winter. But they keep getting beaten by the Yankees and then they cry about it.

Stop. It’s hideous of the Sox and their fans to complain about the Yankees buying championships. Sure, the Yanks can afford Teixeira, CC Sabathia, and A.J. Burnett, just like the Sox were able to afford Matsuzaka and Drew. The Sox got Curt Schilling and Victor Martinez the same way the Yankees got Curtis Granderson this week. The Sox are not the Pirates. They are not the Brewers or the A’s. The Sox are Haves, not Have-Nots. Like the Yankees, the Sox are happy to raid the rosters of teams that can’t afford high-priced talent.

Oh, and last time I checked the Yankees developed Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, Andy Pettitte, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, and Joba Chamberlain. They developed the players they traded in the deal that brought Granderson.

Nothing is more pathetic than the Red Sox crying about the Yankees - unless it’s Henry crying about revenue sharing. Henry loved commissioner Bud Selig when Uncle Bud delivered the team to him in the bag job sale of 2002. Here we are seven years later and Henry is doing something the Yankees never did; he’s complaining about his luxury tax money going to the Royals and the Pirates.

The Yankees blew past the Red Sox in 2009 and New York just got better. Granderson is an All-Star leadoff hitter, a defensive artist in center field, and a 30-home run guy in his prime. Meanwhile, the Sox are standing still and holding the line on their four-year offer for Bay. If Bay winds up in New York, Anaheim, or Seattle, the Sox are going to have to deal with Scott Boras for Holliday. Or do nothing and remind us that the kids will be available to help in 2012.

It’s nice that Theo has a passion for player development, but asking fans to take a year off is outrageous. Henry is a billionaire and the Sox are making bundles of money. If you don’t believe that, call their partners at Ace Ticket and try to score a few tickets.

Red Sox fans love their team unconditionally. For eight seasons, Henry and Co. returned the love, rebuilding Fenway and overtaking/embarrassing the Yankees.

Now the Yankees are back on top and it feels like the Sox - happy with their trendy, ever-filled ballpark - are giving up. The ballpark is done (thanks for helping, Janet Marie Smith, now take a hike) and the championships have been won. Loyal fans can keep coming to Fenway and singing “Sweet Caroline’’. Just don’t expect the Sox to compete with the Yankees this winter or next season.

Sorry. Not OK.

[sailor]

don't quote entire articles, per favore.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think the Red Sox are giving up: they jus thave the rare intelligent GM who recognizes the reality of his situation. Yeah, they have money but it's just not a very good FA class. Holliday is going to demand a ton of money because he's a Boras client and he's ultimately not worth it. Bay is a very solid option but he's really not a gamechanger and he's now 31. He's not old, but it's definitely worth considering when giving big money to a guy on the wrong side of 30. I think Theo just realizes that they have a lot of guys who are in that situation and signing a couple of B+ OFers isn't going to reverse that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox aren't just biding their time to make sure they have the money to go all out for Halladay. It would not surprise me at all to see them trade for him and then win him over with a giant contract extension to keep from going to FA.

[epo]

So essentially Boston sports writers are just as hideous as NY sports writers.

[TheMojoPin]

Sports writers are usually crappy a good 95% of the time.

[epo]

Sports writers are usually crappy a good 95% of the time.

That little?

But that shit by Shaughnessy is just a perfect image of the "gimme the story right now!" crap that sports writers want. Jesus christ, Theo has done a great job in Boston...what do you expect him to do? Give all the local hacks a copy of his blueprint for 2010?

Just stupid.

[A.J.]

So essentially Boston sports writers are just as hideous as NY sports writers.

Sometimes worse. Just like Boston sports talk radio.

[TheMojoPin]

If this somehow leads to Theo getting pushed out of Boston in time for Jim Hendry being fired I'm all for it. Epstein is one of the rare GM's who isn't mediocre at best.

[Kevin]

The only move i can blame the Sox for making or not making is Tex last year.

They took thier time with an arogent we are the Redsox and you should be proud to play with us angle, and let the Yanks swoop in and steal the perfect player for both teams.

And the Yanks would have had a big whole in their lineup, instead of the Sox.

If they signed Tex, they would not have had to deal good young prospects for Vmart and had them in the bank for Halladay or anyone.


There is no way they should have let Tex leave that meeting without a deal.

They got suckered by the Yanks saying they spent enough for CC and AJ and won't sign anyone else.

This was the only horrible move that the Sox have made since this regime took over.

[TheMojoPin]

The only move i can blame the Sox for making or not making is Tex last year.

They took thier time with an arogent we are the Redsox and you should be proud to play with us angle, and let the Yanks swoop in and steal the perfect player for both teams.

And the Yanks would have had a big whole in their lineup, instead of the Sox.

If they signed Tex, they would not have had to deal good young prospects for Vmart and had them in the bank for Halladay or anyone.


There is no way they should have let Tex leave that meeting without a deal.

They got suckered by the Yanks saying they spent enough for CC and AJ and won't sign anyone else.

This was the only horrible move that the Sox have made since this regime took over.

True, that was definitely a drop the ball moment, but like you said, Theo is pretty short on those. And hell, even if they signed Tex they'd still largely be in the situation they're in now with an older team that needs to be overhauled.

[Mitch&Murray]

Sorry for the whole article post.
I found the attitude of the Red Sox ownership/management that the Sox, who are ever bit as succesful as the Yankees don't present the impression that they will do everything they can to win. The Sox may not make as much money as the Yankees but they have the means to spend $ for $ with them. They chose not to. They really don't belong in the same strata as the Indians for example "were waiting for our kids" rhetoric.
I am not saying being cautious in this FA market isnt smart. It is. But the Sox ought not be playing that bridge year crap.

[Kevin]

True, that was definitely a drop the ball moment, but like you said, Theo is pretty short on those. And hell, even if they signed Tex they'd still largely be in the situation they're in now with an older team that needs to be overhauled.



Eh, they woulda been far better off, they would have still young GG, very good hitters at the corners, and 3 4 in the lineup. They still have some real good young guys in Padroia and Elsbury.

I think if they had Tex, the situation would be diff. For them and their fans

[Mitch&Murray]

True, that was definitely a drop the ball moment, but like you said, Theo is pretty short on those. And hell, even if they signed Tex they'd still largely be in the situation they're in now with an older team that needs to be overhauled.



I disagree to a point. Theos crappy moves are fairly abundant at this point. Gagne Smoltz SS as a whole come to mind. He's got his fair share. And now paying players to leave ala Lowell hoping for Beltre to return to form. He's good but as mediocre as most.

[TheMojoPin]

He's had minor mistakes as any GM will do, but none of those really had the impact that losing Tex did. The team is generally strong enough because of him to absorb mistakes like those other ones.

[Kevin]

He's had minor mistakes as any GM will do, but none of those really had the impact that losing Tex did. The team is generally strong enough because of him to absorb mistakes like those other ones.



The only other one i can think of is chosing Renteria over Cabrera.

But at the time, Renteria was still a good player and Cabrera was a real asshole who tried to sleep with players wives.

You can't have that on your team, no matter how good the player is.

[underdog]

So essentially Boston sports writers are just as hideous as NY sports writers.

Shaughnessy is fucking horrid. He's one of the worst.

If this somehow leads to Theo getting pushed out of Boston in time for Jim Hendry being fired I'm all for it. Epstein is one of the rare GM's who isn't mediocre at best.

Theo is incredibly overrated. He's made some terrible moves.

[underdog]

ESPN is reporting that Lackey is taking a physical with the Red Sox today.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The ticker on Francesas show is saying that the Halos are seriously interested in Matsui

[PD]

ESPN is reporting that Lackey is taking a physical with the Red Sox today.

update:

Jon Heyman of SI.com (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6671618454) says the Red Sox and free-agent RHP John Lackey (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6953) have agreed to a five-year, $85 million deal.

[Kevin]

update:

Jon Heyman of SI.com (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6671618454) says the Red Sox and free-agent RHP John Lackey (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6953) have agreed to a five-year, $85 million deal.



Good signing. I don't think he is an ace, but a solid #2. With Beckett in a contract year, its a solid 1 2 punch.

[foodcourtdruide]

Just heard this on MadDogRadio:
Halladay in Philly, deal is being worked out and there's a rumor that Cliff Lee could be involved in a deal with a third team in a blockbuster trade.

Some more rumors here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html

Halladay is an upgrade over Lee, but considering injury history I'm not sure if I'd make this deal. Also, would the Phillies have to give up prospects along with Lee? I think there's a big piece of information missing here.

[foodcourtdruide]

update:

Jon Heyman of SI.com (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6671618454) says the Red Sox and free-agent RHP John Lackey (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6953) have agreed to a five-year, $85 million deal.

Overpaying for best pitcher available. Reminds me of the Burnett deal, but Lackey is probably better than Burnett. He hasn't thrown 200 innings since '07, which is a LITTLE scary. Not a great pitcher, but very good. Beckett, Lackey, Lester is solid.

[Kevin]

I don't know if i like this deal for Philly.

Lee is very good and not that much of a downgrade from Halladay and does not have nearly as much innings in him like Halladay.

[PD]

Just heard this on MadDogRadio:
Halladay in Philly, deal is being worked out and there's a rumor that Cliff Lee could be involved in a deal with a third team in a blockbuster trade.

Some more rumors here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html

Halladay is an upgrade over Lee, but considering injury history I'm not sure if I'd make this deal. Also, would the Phillies have to give up prospects along with Lee? I think there's a big piece of information missing here.

its been talked about in the Phillies thread.

I agree with you; Halladay > Lee, but Lee is younger and better long term probably.
Halladay will extend though and reportedly Lee wants to test the FA Market next year.

both Halladay and Lackey news is not good for Mets for 2010.

[joeyballsack]

The Mariners are putting together a decent team out in Seattle.

I like the Lackey signing, and even more now that Halladay is leaving the division and wont be playing for the Yankees.

[PD]

The Mariners are putting together a decent team out in Seattle.

I like the Lackey signing, and even more now that Halladay is leaving the division and wont be playing for the Yankees.

did you say Mariners because of this?

Jon Heyman of SI.com (http://twitter.com/SI_jonHeyman) says the Phillies, Mariners and Blue Jays have agreed to a deal that will send RHP Roy Halladay (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6134) to Philadelphia, Cliff Lee (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=7026) to Seattle and prospects from both teams to Toronto. According to Jim Salisbury of CSN Philly (http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Fever-Pitch-Trade-Talks-for-Halladay-Hea=1&blockID=103216&feedID=704), Halladay is currently in Philadelphia working on a contract extension.

[TheMojoPin]

Wow, King Felix and Cliff Lee are a badass 1-2 punch for the Mariners.

Depending on what prospects the Jays get this could be an epic deal where all three teams involved make great moves.

[underdog]

Beckett, Lackey, Lester is solid.

And the possibility of matsuzaka, who is great sometimes.

[brettmojo]

http://thesportsunion.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rip-mets.jpg

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[TheGameHHH]

Good signing. I don't think he is an ace, but a solid #2. With Beckett in a contract year, its a solid 1 2 punch.

i think, when healthy, Lackey is absolutely an ace. what scares me more is in my mind Beckett, Lackey, Lester beat Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte.

[sailor]

Crazy, the phils just gave up like 5 prospects for lee. Now trading him plus prospects? So that's like 7-8 guys for halladay? Insane.

[K.C.]

Crazy, the phils just gave up like 5 prospects for lee. Now trading him plus prospects? So that's like 7-8 guys for halladay? Insane.

They gave up five B-listers for Lee...they'll give up one star prospect and Lee for Halladay.

And Halladay is signing a three to four year extension upon the announcement, according to reports.

So essentially, if Michael Taylor's the prospect, they'll be giving up exactly what they (the Phillies) wanted to give up in the first place to get Halladay last year, and they'll be getting a favorable extension.

Love the move.


Better than three top prospects, and no extension guarantee which is what Riccardi wanted last year.

[foodcourtdruide]

The big winner in this could be Lackey. I wonder if we're going to see a bidding war between sox/yanks

[Suspect Chin]

This is mine Scosc!

Best moment of 2009 Playoffs.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1023/life_g_lackey_800.jpg

[cougarjake13]

The big winner in this could be Lackey. I wonder if we're going to see a bidding war between sox/yanks

doesnt look like since he signed with boston

[cougarjake13]

They gave up five B-listers for Lee...they'll give up one star prospect and Lee for Halladay.

And Halladay is signing a three to four year extension upon the announcement, according to reports.

So essentially, if Michael Taylor's the prospect, they'll be giving up exactly what they (the Phillies) wanted to give up in the first place to get Halladay last year, and they'll be getting a favorable extension.

Love the move.


Better than three top prospects, and no extension guarantee which is what Riccardi wanted last year.




isnt philly getting a few prospects back in the deal along with doc ??

[epo]

isnt philly getting a few prospects back in the deal along with doc ??

Why would Philly get prospects in such a deal?

[GregoryJoseph]

Epo thinks the stove is hot because of global warming...

[foodcourtdruide]

I think its a great aggressive move by the phils.

[K.C.]

Why would Philly get prospects in such a deal?

Apparently the latest rumor is the Phillies trading Drabek, Taylor, and D'Arnaud for Halladay, and then trading Lee to the Mariners, getting back, and keeping all the prospects from the Mariners which include Phillipe Aumont, Carlos Trunfiel, and possibly others.

I'm not sure I understand the real purpose of that (although theoretically, Aumont = Drabek....Trunfiel is a potential replacement for Rollins down the road), but I would be somewhat taken a back if that's what ends up happening.

[PD]

Apparently the latest rumor is the Phillies trading Drabek, Taylor, and D'Arnaud for Halladay, and then trading Lee to the Mariners, getting back, and keeping all the prospects from the Mariners which include Phillipe Aumont, Carlos Trunfiel, and possibly others.

I'm not sure I understand the real purpose of that (although theoretically, Aumont = Drabek....Trunfiel is a potential replacement for Rollins down the road), but I would be somewhat taken a back if that's what ends up happening.
also
In addition, while it’s not clear Joe Blanton, J.A. Happ (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=8061) and top prospect Domonic Brown are a part of the trade, they were both in Philadelphia taking physicals today.
I think until its official we wont know what is going on, except Halladay to Phils and Lee to Mariners.

[TripleSkeet]

I honestly dont think I like this trade. Although if they get Halladay on a 3 year extension and Lee is set on leaving next year then I could undertsand it.

I just dont know if I like giving up Taylor and Drabek. I really wanted to see what Drabek could do when he gets to the bigs.

[spoon]

That little?

But that shit by Shaughnessy is just a perfect image of the "gimme the story right now!" crap that sports writers want. Jesus christ, Theo has done a great job in Boston...what do you expect him to do? Give all the local hacks a copy of his blueprint for 2010?

Just stupid.

It's also another example of what's wrong with baseball and how the fans view the game in big market MLB cities, including their ESD wannabe writers. Yes, only the "other" teams should be required to develop and deliver talent for our teams. I like that they also talk of developing all those high ranked international free agents in the group with a few actual draft picks. Sorry, No thanks to that piss poor rundown.

[spoon]

Sorry for the whole article post.
I found the attitude of the Red Sox ownership/management that the Sox, who are ever bit as succesful as the Yankees don't present the impression that they will do everything they can to win. The Sox may not make as much money as the Yankees but they have the means to spend $ for $ with them. They chose not to. They really don't belong in the same strata as the Indians for example "were waiting for our kids" rhetoric.
I am not saying being cautious in this FA market isnt smart. It is. But the Sox ought not be playing that bridge year crap.

You're so blind it's actually comical. By "do everything they can to win" in NYY, do you mean still make the largest profits in baseball? Don't act like all teams that rely on annual free agent spending sprees to reload at the expense of other teams, competitive balance and any semblance of a league that your ownership cares more. Yes, even compared to BOSTON, the Yankees have a huge financial advantage. You ought not be trying to chime in on an issue you don't even see clearly BEFORE the article, and just what are you saying being cautious in this FA market is?

[spoon]

Just heard this on MadDogRadio:
Halladay in Philly, deal is being worked out and there's a rumor that Cliff Lee could be involved in a deal with a third team in a blockbuster trade.

Some more rumors here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html

Halladay is an upgrade over Lee, but considering injury history I'm not sure if I'd make this deal. Also, would the Phillies have to give up prospects along with Lee? I think there's a big piece of information missing here.

What injuries are you talking about? The broken leg caused by a liner up the middle years ago? Come on. He's a fucking HORSE.

[spoon]

I don't know if i like this deal for Philly.

Lee is very good and not that much of a downgrade from Halladay and does not have nearly as much innings in him like Halladay.

Wrong, I bet Lee doesn't hold up like Halladay will and for less. Not to mention Halladay is an amazing clubhouse guy, and works hard with all his pitchers as another pitching coach. He's been credited by tons of Blue Jay players on turning their careers around and is an amazing guy to emulate. Lee hasn't had nearly the success Halladay has in my biased mind over the career, and he surely wants more money.

[spoon]

Wow, King Felix and Cliff Lee are a badass 1-2 punch for the Mariners.

Depending on what prospects the Jays get this could be an epic deal where all three teams involved make great moves.

Based on what I'm seeing, your assessment is right on. The Jays had no choice in the end, and kept Halladay out of the League, let alone division and still got a lot of depth out of the deal right down the middle. Taylor (CF), D'Arnaud (C) and Drabek (P) is pretty darn good overall, and I can root for Halladay easily in Philly.

[spoon]

They gave up five B-listers for Lee...they'll give up one star prospect and Lee for Halladay.

And Halladay is signing a three to four year extension upon the announcement, according to reports.

So essentially, if Michael Taylor's the prospect, they'll be giving up exactly what they (the Phillies) wanted to give up in the first place to get Halladay last year, and they'll be getting a favorable extension.

Love the move.


Better than three top prospects, and no extension guarantee which is what Riccardi wanted last year.

Someone hopefully got the update on players coming to Toronto...they got to say goodbye last year and get the players they wanted in the end. They should have made this move last year too and hence may have won back to back and the yank fans wouldn't be so fucking annoying right now.

[spoon]

I honestly dont think I like this trade. Although if they get Halladay on a 3 year extension and Lee is set on leaving next year then I could undertsand it.

I just dont know if I like giving up Taylor and Drabek. I really wanted to see what Drabek could do when he gets to the bigs.

Oh you still will, just hopefully it's with the Jays!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Matsui to Anaheim


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aj3ls415QMUyp9DLH7kHqWoRvLYF?slug=ap-angels-matsui&prov=ap&type=lgns

[TripleSkeet]

Seattle, Toronto and Philly. Anyone know what these 3 teams have in common? Pat Gillick. Hopefully he got on the horn with the Phils and gave Amaro his seal of approval on this trade.

[spoon]

Seattle, Toronto and Philly. Anyone know what these 3 teams have in common? Pat Gillick. Hopefully he got on the horn with the Phils and gave Amaro his seal of approval on this trade.

And he also helped 2 of 3 make and win the world series at least once. He's a very good GM in my mind.

[K.C.]

He's a very good GM in my mind.

Many people think he's going to get in the Hall of Fame.

[spoon]

Many people think he's going to get in the Hall of Fame.

well that should surely happen, but he hasn't exactly been a known commodity in Toronto and now small market Seattle

and the Jays are already moving Taylor to the A's for Brett Wallace

[epo]

Seattle, Toronto and Philly. Anyone know what these 3 teams have in common? Pat Gillick. Hopefully he got on the horn with the Phils and gave Amaro his seal of approval on this trade.

If I were Seattle, I'd worry about Benny Looper's knowledge in such a deal.

[K.C.]

If I were Seattle, I'd worry about Benny Looper's knowledge in such a deal.

There's something to all the prospects the Phillies got back.

Aumont has nasty stuff, but his durability is an issue. It's not crazy to think they might see a way to change his delivery.

Gilles has a lot of raw tools and ridiculous speed....a lot like Michael Bourn.

J.C. Ramirez has an electric arm, almost as good as Drabek's in terms of stuff, but is way less polished.

All three of them have talent. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them turn out better than being projected now (which is marginal).

[spoon]

There's something to all the prospects the Phillies got back.

Aumont has nasty stuff, but his durability is an issue. It's not crazy to think they might see a way to change his delivery.

Gilles has a lot of raw tools and ridiculous speed....a lot like Michael Bourn.

J.C. Ramirez has an electric arm, almost as good as Drabek's in terms of stuff, but is way less polished.

All three of them have talent. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them turn out better than being projected now (which is marginal).

I still don't know why they didn't just keep Lee here and get the two picks next year when he leaves? I also still don't know how the Phils didn't just pull the trigger last year on the Halladay deal? Perhaps they thought somewhere in Hammels, Blanton or Pedro would be a good enough 2/3 combo?

[K.C.]

I still don't know why they didn't just keep Lee here and get the two picks next year when he leaves? I also still don't know how the Phils didn't just pull the trigger last year on the Halladay deal? Perhaps they thought somewhere in Hammels, Blanton or Pedro would be a good enough 2/3 combo?

Part of it was money, but you could make the argument that if they non-tendered Blanton and Chad Durbin, that would be the difference in Lee's salary.

The other part, and what they'll sell tomorrow at the press conference, is that they didn't want to strip the farm, and they believe in the prospects they got back.

Most people are saying they didn't get shit back for Lee. I tend to see it as they got three very 'toolsy', project players....who, let's be honest....they'd be lucky to have one develop into a solid MLB contributor.

That said, they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me for now on talent evaluation....they've taken a lot of moves that looked suspect over the last few years and they've proven to be outstanding for the franchise.

But I tend to agree on the surface about keeping Lee and getting draft picks.

[TripleSkeet]

Apparently the Phillies think Carlos Ruiz is going to be their catcher forever also.

[foodcourtdruide]

There's a really brilliant post on metsblog.com about the Mets offseason and the media reaction to it. Here's the link:
http://www.metsblog.com/2009/12/17/opinion-stay-calm-well-be-fine/

I posted it in this thread becasue I think it relates to many teams. He brings up the idiotic nature of sports talk radio and the overreaction to EVERYTHING, singling out Mike Francessa. The notion that the Mets (or any team) are "not trying" is stupid and he calls them out on it.

[brettmojo]

There's a really brilliant post on metsblog.com about the Mets offseason and the media reaction to it. Here's the link:
http://www.metsblog.com/2009/12/17/opinion-stay-calm-well-be-fine/

I posted it in this thread becasue I think it relates to many teams. He brings up the idiotic nature of sports talk radio and the overreaction to EVERYTHING, singling out Mike Francessa. The notion that the Mets (or any team) are "not trying" is stupid and he calls them out on it.
The past three years have been fantastic with this team. Why change anything?

[foodcourtdruide]

The past three years have been fantastic with this team. Why change anything?

What isn't changing?

[brettmojo]

What isn't changing?
The Met's roster apparently.

[foodcourtdruide]

The Met's roster apparently.

I don't think any of the guys that have been signed would have been good for this team. Of course, I would have liked Lacky, but the Red Sox overpaid for him in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be tied up for 5 years with a guy who hasn't pitched 200 innings in 3 years. I'm hoping they sign Bay and Marquis, I'm really hoping they DON'T sign Molina, especially to a 2 year deal.

[PD]

I don't think any of the guys that have been signed would have been good for this team. Of course, I would have liked Lacky, but the Red Sox overpaid for him in my opinion. I wouldn't want to be tied up for 5 years with a guy who hasn't pitched 200 innings in 3 years. I'm hoping they sign Bay and Marquis, I'm really hoping they DON'T sign Molina, especially to a 2 year deal.

5 years with Lackey wouldn't have been bad for Mets, but it didn't happen.

Marquis on his own is minimal help; it needs to be combined with a high risk/high result type signing like Ben Sheets.

[foodcourtdruide]

5 years with Lackey wouldn't have been bad for Mets, but it didn't happen.

Marquis on his own is minimal help; it needs to be combined with a high risk/high result type signing like Ben Sheets.

I could take or leave Lackey at that price. I would have been happy if the Mets did it, but I'm not destroyed that they didn't. I like the idea of Marquis and Sheets, if the Mets end up dealing Maine I think that may be the way they go.

[K.C.]

5 years with Lackey wouldn't have been bad for Mets, but it didn't happen.

Marquis on his own is minimal help; it needs to be combined with a high risk/high result type signing like Ben Sheets.

There's some ridiculous stat that reads something to the effect that out of every pitcher who's signed a four or five year deal (I forget the starting point) or longer over the last decade, only two have pitched the entire length of the contract without missing significant time.

It encompasses like 50-60 pitchers over that time frame, too.

They were talking about it on Home Plate the other day.

[foodcourtdruide]

There's some ridiculous stat that reads something to the effect that out of every pitcher who's signed a four or five year deal (I forget the starting point) or longer over the last decade, only two have pitched the entire length of the contract without missing significant time.

It encompasses like 50-60 pitchers over that time frame, too.

They were talking about it on Home Plate the other day.

Also, isn't it almost impossible to get insurance on 5 year deals for pitchers?

[spoon]

There's some ridiculous stat that reads something to the effect that out of every pitcher who's signed a four or five year deal (I forget the starting point) or longer over the last decade, only two have pitched the entire length of the contract without missing significant time.

It encompasses like 50-60 pitchers over that time frame, too.

They were talking about it on Home Plate the other day.

Well to be fair, I'm sure the percentages are high on pitchers in general. So pending on any two pitchers over 2+3 year contracts, you'll probably line up the same amount of injuries. Stats can be bs in these type cases.

[spoon]

Jays in the news again, Brandon for Brandon move with Seattle very close. League for Morrow (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091222&content_id=7841362&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor)

I have to say, this new GM is doing what's needed, shaking up the team and getting a much needed Righty Starter in the mix to go with a TON of young lefties. Of the group listed below, I expect Romero and Rzep to be the #2 and #4 starters on the team. My guess is Romero may be the #1 to start the year until Marcum gets it going.

LH Pitchers who may start
*some may go to the pen, especially Purcey bc he's about out of options)

Ricky Romero
Marc Rzepczynski
Brad Mills
David Purcey
Brett Cecil

I assume that the Jays will go with Marcum and Morrow as the official #1 and #3 starters come mid-season, with the 5th picked from those lefties remaining above and the righties below. Most likely, it'll be Litsch as the 5 if healthy by 2010's start.

RH Pitchers who may start

Shaun Marcum
Brandon Morrow
Jesse Litsch
Casey Janssen (probably pen/setup guy)
Dustin McGowan (not sure if he'll ever get back to MLB bc of injuries)
Robert Ray
Scott Richmond

[epo]

League for Morrow?

Good move for the Spoons.

[KnoxHarrington]

Andre Dawson, former Cubs star, has been elected to the Hall of Fame -- barely. He got 77.9% of the vote.

He will be the only player elected this year. Bert Blyleven got 74.2% of the vote, missing by 5 votes. Roberto Alomar came in third with 73.7%.

The only other inductees to the HOF this year will be Whitey Herzog and umpire Doug Harvey, elected by the Veteran's Committee.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/01/06/hall.of.fame/index.html

[A.J.]

Barry Larkin not getting in is horseshit.

[spoon]

Barry Larkin not getting in is horseshit.

WAY worse than that is Roberto Alomar not getting in first ballot. He seriously was the best 2nd baseman in every fucking way in his era and overall a top 5 easy. If he was a yankee he would be bigger than Jeter and his faggy jumps into the stands or balls through his legs that go as a hit. Oh well, I guess the fag talk fits them both and that's probably what hurt him sadly. Go look at his stats yourself.

[A.J.]

WAY worse than that is Roberto Alomar not getting in first ballot. He seriously was the best 2nd baseman in every fucking way in his era and overall a top 5 easy. If he was a yankee he would be bigger than Jeter and his faggy jumps into the stands or balls through his legs that go as a hit. Oh well, I guess the fag talk fits them both and that's probably what hurt him sadly. Go look at his stats yourself.

Agreed. Still, he finished third with 73.7 percent. Maybe not getting on the first ballot is "punishment" for the spitting incident. I think he goes in the next time around.

[foodcourtdruide]

Considering position, Alomar is WAYYYYYYYY more deserving than Dawson.

[El Mudo]

282 votes for Jack Morris?


I HATE sportswriters.

[IMSlacker]

Maybe not getting on the first ballot is "punishment" for the spitting incident.

I'd bet that's probably it.

[spoon]

282 votes for Jack Morris?


I HATE sportswriters.

You couldn't be more right. In all honesty though, does it surprise you. Most know soooo little beyond their actual area, and have become more and more biased as the years go on and the availability to see more teams and players increases. It's unreal.

[spoon]

I'd bet that's probably it.

Well that's just stupid. I'm sorry, spitting is fucking hack but shouldn't influence a hall vote...especially bc it's his only issue and it was leaked the ump went racial on him.

[A.J.]

Well that's just stupid. I'm sorry, spitting is fucking hack but shouldn't influence a hall vote...especially bc it's his only issue and it was leaked the ump went racial on him.

Again, agreed. But given the whacked out reasoning some sportswriters have for who and why they vote, it isn't impossible to think that at least a couple of them might have thought that way.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Barry Larkin not getting in is horseshit.

Larkin was over rated, the SS position was weak in the 1980s , so his #s seem a lot better

]

WAY worse than that is Roberto Alomar not getting in first ballot. He seriously was the best 2nd baseman in every fucking way in his era and overall a top 5 easy. If he was a yankee he would be bigger than Jeter and his faggy jumps into the stands or balls through his legs that go as a hit. Oh well, I guess the fag talk fits them both and that's probably what hurt him sadly. Go look at his stats yourself.

Even though I hate Alomar's guts from his Mets years

His # are better than Larkins and he deserves to be in






Andre Dawson averaged 20 HRs a year, I guess there was a pity induction to make sure 1 person made the HOF

[spoon]

Again, agreed. But given the whacked out reasoning some sportswriters have for who and why they vote, it isn't impossible to think that at least a couple of them might have thought that way.

As you are agreeing with me, I am with you but it's just hard to take in. These are the people who are supposed to have a sense of history and the game, and in light of all the cheating and issues currently with the game, this is quite sad. I actually think it's a combo of the spitting and all the homosexual/aids/domestic suits issues surrounding him in the last few years.

[IMSlacker]

Again, agreed. But given the whacked out reasoning some sportswriters have for who and why they vote, it isn't impossible to think that at least a couple of them might have thought that way.

Also, he played for Toronto, and everyone knows Canadian baseball doesn't count.

[spoon]

Larkin was over rated, the SS position was weak in the 1980s , so his #s seem a lot better

]



Even though I hate Alomar's guts from his Mets years

His # are better than Larkins and he deserves to be in




Alomar was brought in to spot fill but Met fans assumed he'd lose 10 years on his age and hit like in Toronto. Sorry, that's not how nature works. His fielding was still fine, just not insane as he was in SD and Toronto. The guy led Toronto to two titles and was a fixture at all-star games and in the gold glove category (rightfully so unlike Jeter). Yes, I take MAJOR issue with pretty much ANY gold glove won by Jeter. Yet another vote that is getting destroyed and more suspect year in and year out. The fact that people even lobbied for Jeter as mvp when he wasn't even the mvp of his team is hilarious. Not to mention a certain catcher's HISTORIC year in Minny. Is anyone unbiased at this point? Hell, is anyone not influenced by the big market tag and bought all-star teams as well.

[Marc with a c]

alomar is a fag.

NO FAGS ALLOWED11

[spoon]

Also, he played for Toronto, and everyone knows Canadian baseball doesn't count.

The sad fact is, I bet some old codgers actually think that way, regardless of the fact most players in the league are from another country as well. I'm sure it hurts Morris's votes as well being he played in Minny and Toronto for his titles.

[spoon]

alomar is a fag.

NO FAGS ALLOWED11

Isn't Brady Anderson's hypodermic in the hall already?