2011 Philadelphia Phillies Thread

[K.C.]

No idea how painful it was to write NL Champs...I'll post an analysis in a few days after the wound scabs up a little.

[cougarjake13]

it would hurt a lot more if you didnt have last year so you got that going for you which is nice

[weekapaugjz]

it would hurt a lot more if you didnt have last year so you got that going for you which is nice

it would hurt most if he was actually a mets fan and had to root for a shitty team.

[Kevin]

Blame Obama.

The Yanks have not won a WS in the past 60 years that a Republican has been in the White House.

[TheMojoPin]

Blame Obama.

The Yanks have no won a WS in the past 60 years that a Republican has been in the White House.

This leaves me very conflicted.

[K.C.]

Looks like the Phils aren't going to pick up Feliz's option and try and add a right-handed bat at 3B to give a little more power.

I'm conflicted on that. Feliz is excellent defensively.

Myers was released, no surprise.

I really don't expect a big move this offseason, except maybe a 3B like Beltre or Atkins.

[A.J.]

Blame Obama.

The Yanks have not won a WS in the past 60 years that a Republican has been in the White House.

Maybe it's the past 50 years. They won in 1953, 1956 and 1958 during the Eisenhower years.

[Kevin]

Maybe it's the past 50 years. They won in 1953, 1956 and 1958 during the Eisenhower years.



I guess 50. Nothing with Nixon, Ford, Reagan anf Bush 1 and 2

[K.C.]

I'd really like to see the Phils make a run at Chien-Ming Wang and stash him until he can throw.

Good low-cost, low-risk, high reward move.

[KingGeno]

Roy Halladay and his agent are in philly. EVERYONE PANIC AND FREAKOUT AT THE POSSIBILITY>

I was reading that if something happens, it is likely the phils will use Cliff Lee in the trade. Which makes me sad.

[PD]

Roy Halladay and his agent are in philly. EVERYONE PANIC AND FREAKOUT AT THE POSSIBILITY>

I was reading that if something happens, it is likely the phils will use Cliff Lee in the trade. Which makes me sad.
seems so

Jim Salisbury of CSN Philly (http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Fever-Pitch-Trade-Talks-for-Halladay-Hea=1&blockID=103216&feedID=704) believes Blue Jays RHP Roy Halladay (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6134) is in Philadelphia today to discuss a contract extension with the Phillies.

“A three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies, and Phillies LHP Cliff Lee (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=7026) to another club, is under discussion,” writes FOXSports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10523430/Sources:-Jays,-Phils-talk-Halladay-Lee-blockbuster).
According to the report, trade talks for Halladay are at a ‘critical juncture,’ and are ‘highly complex.’


Halladay > Lee, but Lee is younger. The key for phils probably is that they can sign Halladay now and Lee has said he wants to test FA Market next year.

[foodcourtdruide]

seems so

Jim Salisbury of CSN Philly (http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Fever-Pitch-Trade-Talks-for-Halladay-Hea=1&blockID=103216&feedID=704) believes Blue Jays RHP Roy Halladay (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6134) is in Philadelphia today to discuss a contract extension with the Phillies.

“A three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies, and Phillies LHP Cliff Lee (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=7026) to another club, is under discussion,” writes FOXSports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10523430/Sources:-Jays,-Phils-talk-Halladay-Lee-blockbuster).
According to the report, trade talks for Halladay are at a ‘critical juncture,’ and are ‘highly complex.’


Halladay > Lee, but Lee is younger. The key for phils probably is that they can sign Halladay now and Lee has said he wants to test FA Market next year.

I guess so. Wow, the pitching free agent market outlook must be TERRIBLE next season if they feel the need to make this deal.

[K.C.]

Halladay > Lee, but Lee is younger. The key for phils probably is that they can sign Halladay now and Lee has said he wants to test FA Market next year.

Lee is like 32 though so it's only a year or two age difference.

You get to presumably lock up a Top 5 MLB pitcher for three to four more years without trading your top prospects...it's outside the box thinking and I like it.

It'll be tough for people to understand because Lee is such a hero after last year's run, but if he won't sign, you need to get it done.

[PD]

Lee is like 32 though so it's only a year or two age difference.

You get to presumably lock up a Top 5 MLB pitcher for three to four more years without trading your top prospects...it's outside the box thinking and I like it.

It'll be tough for people to understand because Lee is such a hero after last year's run, but if he won't sign, you need to get it done.
yeah it probably is a good move for Phils

Add to that Halladay's consistency while Lee has been more of an up/down guy.

[TheMojoPin]

Sounding like a great deal for the Phillies. They've really turned into an impressively-run organization in the aughts.

[Snoogans]

Lee is like 32 though so it's only a year or two age difference.

You get to presumably lock up a Top 5 MLB pitcher for three to four more years without trading your top prospects...it's outside the box thinking and I like it.

It'll be tough for people to understand because Lee is such a hero after last year's run, but if he won't sign, you need to get it done.

the only other thing i wonder one is halladay has so many more miles on him than any other pitcher I think. I dont remember Cleveland ever using lee like they used CC, so i would think, though a year in age, the arms are alot different

[JimBeam]

Why wouldn't they keep both Lee and Halladay ?

[K.C.]

Why wouldn't they keep both Lee and Halladay ?

1) They dont't want to trade Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Domonic Brown....they's rather flip Lee for someone else's top prospects.
2) Cost.

[TheMojoPin]

Why wouldn't they keep both Lee and Halladay ?

Uh, they needed to trade him to Seattle to get them to offer up the prospects needed to send Halladay to the Phillies.

[JimBeam]

OK I see now it's a 3 team deal ( w/ Lee going to Seattle ) but I didn't see anything about who Toronto would get.

[brettmojo]

I liked Lee in Philly but Kudos to Philly for kicking the Mets in the dick once again.

[TheMojoPin]

It's crazy when you realize Halladay has done what he's done in the AL East. He's going to be inhuman pitching in the NL.

[TheMojoPin]

OK I see now it's a 3 team deal ( w/ Lee going to Seattle ) but I didn't see anything about who Toronto would get.

Prospects from both teams.

[joeyballsack]

the only other thing i wonder one is halladay has so many more miles on him than any other pitcher I think. I dont remember Cleveland ever using lee like they used CC, so i would think, though a year in age, the arms are alot different

Halladay: 2046.2 IP over 12 years.

Lee: 1196.2 IP over 8 years.

Thats actually a lot closer than I thought it would be, but when you consider all the time Halladay has missed due to injuries, it makes sense.

[PD]

1) They dont't want to trade Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Domonic Brown....they's rather flip Lee for someone else's top prospects.
2) Cost.

MLB on XM just said they think Domonic Brown is part of the deal.

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark is working to confirm any and all details and this is reporting that Halladay is indeed in Philadelphia talking about extension and that he's told friends that he'd take less than market money to sign. Lee, Stark reports, told the team that he wants market dollars and that the Phillies would likely have to include at least one of their own prospects in the trade.

[K.C.]

MLB on XM just said they think Domonic Brown is part of the deal.

Ken Rosenthal has Michael Taylor instead of Dom Brown....either one is stomachable...the Phillies have a lot of minor league OF depth, although, scouts say that Brown is future star of the two, so I hope they keep him.

Drabek would make me a little quesy.

Lee and Taylor for four more years of Halladay??? I'll take it.

[KingGeno]

Lee wasn't going to accept an extension, and wants more money. I'm sure he can make it elsewhere. I really like the deal so far, but I will be bothered if Drabek is gone.

[K.C.]

Jayson Stark's latest:

Phillies get:
SP - Roy Halladay (TOR) (would sign a 3yr/60 million extension upon trade)

Mariners get:
SP - Cliff Lee (PHI)

Blue Jays get:
SP - Phillippe Aumont (SEA) (AA) (blue chip pitching prospect)
C - Travis D'Arnaud (PHI) (A) (Phillies 4th best prospect...potential blue chip catcher, but years away)
Additional Mariners prospect

[foodcourtdruide]

Jayson Stark's latest:

Phillies get:
SP - Roy Halladay (TOR) (would sign a 3yr/60 million extension upon trade)

Mariners get:
SP - Cliff Lee (PHI)

Blue Jays get:
SP - Phillippe Aumont (SEA) (AA) (blue chip pitching prospect)
C - Travis D'Arnaud (PHI) (A) (Phillies 4th best prospect...potential blue chip catcher, but years away)
Additional Mariners prospect

Why would Seattle give up so much for one year of Lee?

[brettmojo]

Why would Seattle give up so much for one year of Lee?
They were pretty close last year to being a contender. They figure they might make a push this year or at worse if they're out of it by July trade Lee for more prospects.

[K.C.]

Why would Seattle give up so much for one year of Lee?

Blood in the water with Anaheim in flux. They can pick up that division easily next year.

One blue chip pitching prospect for a year of one ace is pretty fair as far as the market goes.

If Aumont's the only real piece they part with, they'll live.

[K.C.]

AP is reporting it is Blanton, Happ, and Dom Brown coming from the Phillies.....if THAT's true, the the Phillies just won the pennant instantly.

Halladay, Lee, and Hamels....

That said, I doubt it...AP sucks at sports.

[KingGeno]

I'll take it!

[JohnCharles]

Is the season over yet?

[foodcourtdruide]

AP is reporting it is Blanton, Happ, and Dom Brown coming from the Phillies.....if THAT's true, the the Phillies just won the pennant instantly.

Halladay, Lee, and Hamels....

That said, I doubt it...AP sucks at sports.

If that's the case would Seattle not be involved? 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee is amazing, but obviously your pitching depth would be hurt. Its not instant pennant, but its pretty creative and cool.

[K.C.]

If that's the case would Seattle not be involved? 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee is amazing, but obviously your pitching depth would be hurt. Its not instant pennant, but its pretty creative and cool.

I think that one is BS, though.

Stark just revised his package.

He's saying the Phils may give up Lee, D'Arnaud, AND Brown or Taylor....that would be very pricey.

I'll give up one of the Top 4, but not two.


All the indications are that the Phillies tried to negotiate an extension with Lee last week and he balked at it, hence this trade.

[K.C.]

This is what happens when no one knows the details...they keep throwing shit out there.

-Toronto Star saying Aumont's not in the trade
-CSNPhilly saying Drabek in the trade
-AP still reporting Blanton, Happ and Brown taking physicals

No one can nail down anything concrete except for Halladay to Philly....something is up with this whole thing that sounds off.

[K.C.]

My measure of weather this is a good deal or not:


-ALL TIME deal if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Blanton, Happ, and Brown to the M's for prospects to ship to Toronto.

-GREAT deal if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects, OR, the Phillies get Halladay and a pitcher (i.e. Morrow) for Lee and a prospect no greater than Michael Taylor (#3 ranked prospect in system).

-GOOD deal if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects, and shipping out Michael Taylor.

-BAD deal if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects, and shipping Kyle Drabek or Domonic Brown out.

-HORRENDOUS deal if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects and shipping a combination of Drabek, Brown or Taylor out.

-ALL-TIME BAD if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects, trading a combination of Drabek, Brown, and Taylor, and Halladay refuses to sign an extension.

[PD]

-ALL-TIME BAD if the Phillies get Halladay by flipping Lee to the M's for prospects, trading a combination of Drabek, Brown, and Taylor, and Halladay refuses to sign an extension.

I think there is no chance of deal being done without extension.

I've heard agreed to 3 yrs extension- either 60M (stark) or 70M with player option for 4th (mlb on xm)
In addition, Zolecki says Phillies prospect Kyle Drabek is involved in the trade.

[K.C.]

I can live with Drabek going because they're signing Halladay, but if it's Drabek and Taylor (unless Michael Saunders is one of the M's prospects coming back to Philly), then you're getting into territory where they're fucking with their long term plan to seamlessly plug Taylor and Brown into the outfield to replace Werth and Ibanez at the end of contracts.

Although there's been indications they may be higher on Anthony Gose than Michael Taylor at this point internally.

I'm not sure I get trading a combination of homegrown prospects and then taking back Mariners prospects.

I'm also not entirely sure what the Phillies see in Phillippe Aumont, unless they're pegging him as their post-Lidge closer, but that's three more years from now, if the guy ever makes it.



Also, if salary was a chief motivator in this, the Phillies could have conceivably non-tendered Blanton and Durbin to essentially offset ths cost of Lee's contract.

Some things aren't adding up, but the rumors are all over the place.

[KingGeno]

Last two updates:

11:33pm: Rosenthal reports (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/6687161485) that the Phillies get $6MM from the Jays. Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud are headed to Toronto, Rosenthal says. Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and a third player are apparently headed to Philadelphia.
10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6685310712)) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Phillippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

[KingGeno]

The Phillies will get Aumont, Gillies, and righty Juan Ramirez from Seattle.

[spoon]

When the trade becomes official, it will go into the books as one of this decade's biggest off-season trades.

Roy Halladay is heading to the Phillies. Cliff Lee is going to the Mariners. And in the end, it will be even bigger than that.

Multiple major league sources indicated late Monday that eight players will be involved in the blockbuster. The specifics, as described to FOXSports.com, are as follows:

� Seattle gets Lee.

� Philadelphia gets Halladay from Toronto, along with right-hander Phillippe Aumont, outfielder Tyson Gillies and a third player from Seattle.

� Toronto gets right-hander Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis d'Arnaud from Philadelphia.

In a development first reported by CSNPhilly.com, one source confirmed late Monday that the Blue Jays will send $6 million in cash to the Phillies, to help defray Halladay's $15.75 million salary for 2010.

[spoon]

That was from foxsports.com at 2 am. Looks like it's finally coming together. Man I'll miss Halladay and hope he gets a title or two. The oldest pitcher on the Jay's staff is now 15.

[spoon]

Since 2002 Halladay ranks #1 in Wins, Win % (min 1,000 IP), CG and Shutouts.

This was done in the AL East. Now he's off to the NL.

[TripleSkeet]

I was worried about the deal but now Im thinking, fuck it. Im not worried about 3-5 years from now. But if they were gonna trade the fucking prospects for Halladay, they couldve done it last year for the playoff run.

[spoon]

I was worried about the deal but now Im thinking, fuck it. Im not worried about 3-5 years from now. But if they were gonna trade the fucking prospects for Halladay, they couldve done it last year for the playoff run.

I said that same exact thing earlier in here or the hot stove thread.

[TripleSkeet]

I said that same exact thing earlier in here or the hot stove thread.

I think they felt they wouldve been able to extend Lee. OOPS!

[PD]

from Toronto Star writer (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball):
We're hearing someone involved in the trade flunked their physical.
Halladay and Lee passed (they stuided), it's a minor leaguer who failed his physical.

[TripleSkeet]

from Toronto Star writer (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball):

It was Drabek.

[tbagnu]

I may be on to something!!!...they traded Lee to clear up a uniform number for Hallady!!!

[K.C.]

I bought a six pack of tickets in addition to my normal season tickets, to resell this year....what was formerly Cliff Lee bobblehead night (5/18/10) is now Roy Halladay bobblehead night.

Think I'll hold on to those ones.

[K.C.]

Phils lock up Blanton (3yr/24mi) and Victorino (3yr/22mil) yesterday...both pretty goo deals considering their market value.

Those deals buy out two of Blanton's free agent years and one of Vic's.

All in all, nice signings.

[K.C.]

Got my Spring Training Tix today!!! Yeah!

Individual Regular Season game tickets go on sale for season ticket holders tomorrow...i'm going to have to load up...

[K.C.]

Got great Home Opener tix today and more Phils/Sox ones...just need to get Opening Day in DC and I'm done buying for the year.

[K.C.]

My impression from Spring Training after being down there a week are as follows:

-Domonic Brown is the real deal.
-Tyson Gillies is a hell of a nice a guy, and is all hustle in the field...hope he makes it to the show in a couple years.
-Phillippe Aumont has good stuff, and could develop a nice sinker (especially with Halladay's help), but doesn't quite look mentally ready for the next step.
-Kyle Kendrick looked fantastic...his stuff is much improved.
-Ryan Howard is going to get 8 million curveballs thrown at him this year (Verducci even wrote about it in SI)...he needs to refine his approach.
-I'm starting to think Shane Victorino is more hurt than the Phillies are letting on.
-Hamels has two new pitches...curve looks better, and the cutter looked ok. I like him to bounce back.

[cougarjake13]

your welcome

[TheGameHHH]

I just read on ESPN.com that the Phillies are internally thinking about proposing a Howard for Pujols swap with St. Louis. There seems to be no benefit except for money on St. Louis' end, but it would be an amazing deal for the Phillies.

[KingGeno]

How many years on contract does Pujols have? Because it is possible the Phillies are looking to get some extra money to resign Werth, and could shift Utley to First Base and Polanco to second.

[TheGameHHH]

How many years on contract does Pujols have? Because it is possible the Phillies are looking to get some extra money to resign Werth, and could shift Utley to First Base and Polanco to second.

done after 2011 i believe

[TripleSkeet]

Howard and Pujols are both done after 2011. But the thinking is that they can afford to maybe re-sign Howard, but will never be able to give Pujols the Arod type contract hes looking for. So they are thinking trading him now might help with PR.

Ruben Amaro is vehemently denying it.

[K.C.]

Ruben Amaro is vehemently denying it.

That's because it's a complete fabrication in Buster Olney's mind...someone probably made a joke like "hey, we'll just trade him for Pujols" and he's exactly the type of guy that would run with it like it's news.

All this is, is Buster trying to get his name out there in tomorrow's headlines.


Now for those curious to whether or not this is even feasible, from a Phillies perspective, no...it's 50/50 right now they're able to resign Howard (and that's only going to happen if they let Werth walk and stay pretty quiet in the offseason before 2011).

So it makes absolutely no sense they'd trade for a player (albeit the best in the game), that they'd have no shot at being able to afford.

[K.C.]

Phillies' ticket sales ahead of record pace

More than 3 million tickets already sold for 2010 season

By Todd Zolecki / MLB.com

CLEARWATER, Fla. -- The Phillies have sold more than 3 million tickets for the 2010 season, and they could sell more than 3.1 million before Opening Day.
Tickets are going fast.

The Phillies also have sold 28,500 season tickets. They will cap that number at 28,750, which they could reach before the season begins April 5. The Phillies have just two 17-game packages available. Full-season tickets and Sunday ticket plans are sold out.

Tickets are available for 73 of the team's 81 games at Citizens Bank Park.

In the past, fans could walk up and buy tickets the same day as the game. That would not be wise this year.

"Before, you might wait until mid-May [to buy tickets] for that June game," said John Weber, vice president of sales and ticket operations. "Take a look at the schedule. Take a look at the promotion schedule. Get the tickets in advance."

The Phillies had sold more than 2.6 million at this time last season, and had sold more than 2.7 million by Opening Day 2009. They passed the 3 million mark in mid-May, so they already are selling tickets at a faster pace this year than last year, when they set a franchise attendance record with 3,600,693.

There is little room for growth in ticket sales. The highest number the Phillies can have at Citizens Bank Park is about 3.64 million, including standing-room tickets.

"We can only sell another [30,000] or 40,000 tickets over what we did last year," Weber said.

The Phillies must cap season-ticket sales for two reasons: First, they need to make sure individual tickets are available for every game. Second, the Phillies have postseason requirements -- commitments to season-ticket holders and to Major League Baseball.

"This is really a tribute to our fans, their passion and their loyalty," Weber said.

Todd Zolecki is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.



Better get in while you can.

[TheGameHHH]

Better get in while you can.

buy more tix to watch them lose to the Yanks again, YAY NL CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KingGeno]

Phillies.



Great opener.

[hammersavage]

Phillies.



Great opener.

my god they're gonna be good.



I'm setting Halladay's win line at 23.5 (-120).

And I'd take the over.

[Furtherman]

WooHoo

[disneyspy]

placido palanco is going to be huge for you guys,he was a steady player for the tigers and his bat and glove will be missed,i hope he does well in philly

[K.C.]

Back from DC...Phils fans took over that place...at least half, probably closer to 60-70% Phillies fans...literally entire sections of Phillies merch where you'd only see a smattering of anything recognizable as Nats fan.

[TripleSkeet]

Back from DC...Phils fans took over that place...at least half, probably closer to 60-70% Phillies fans...literally entire sections of Phillies merch where you'd only see a smattering of anything recognizable as Nats fan.

You could hear it on the radio. Sounded like a Philly home game.

[A.J.]

Back from DC...Phils fans took over that place...at least half, probably closer to 60-70% Phillies fans...literally entire sections of Phillies merch where you'd only see a smattering of anything recognizable as Nats fan.

Just like when the Sox were here the other day.

[K.C.]

Just like when the Sox were here the other day.

Putting that stadium at the Navy Yard was a bad choice (even though it's a nice stadium). It cuts off a lot of the suburban population from getting there without going through a bit of a hassle and good luck driving in there.

Whether the Phillies are bad or good, I would go to games at the Vet and CBP, because it's so accessible. I'm out of Philly in 15 minutes tops and on the highway after every game.

You're not going to get a lot of people going out of their way to try and get there for a team that's not good so when they're bad, they're going to have a lot of lean years.

[Furtherman]

Miss Harry.

[joeyballsack]

Phillies fan tasered for running on the field last night.

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbGraphic/201005/1558581.jpg?1272971165

[Fallon]

Phillies fan tasered for running on the field last night.

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbGraphic/201005/1558581.jpg?1272971165

Nice!

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[TripleSkeet]

What a ridiculous overreaction. Theres 10 security guys out there, is that really fucking necessary?

[Fallon]

What a ridiculous overreaction. Theres 10 security guys out there, is that really fucking necessary?

I think this tasering and the one at the A's game will make people think twice about being an ass at the ballpark.

[K.C.]

I was at the game last night. That cop was so ready to taser that kid, he didn't even try to
run him down with the rest of security. As soon as the kid hit the field, the taser was off his hip and he started walking toward him aiming it at him.

It was funny to watch live, though. That kid dropped like he was shot.

[TripleSkeet]

I think this tasering and the one at the A's game will make people think twice about being an ass at the ballpark.

Thats not really their job. When they get arrested its the judges job to do that. Its uncalled for and I dont think you are going to see it happen again. The situations to use those tasers are supposed to be the same as for a gun. To protect the officer from threat of bodily harm. That wasnt the case here.

[TripleSkeet]

I was at the game last night. That cop was so ready to taser that kid, he didn't even try to
run him down with the rest of security. As soon as the kid hit the field, the taser was off his hip and he started walking toward him aiming it at him.

It was funny to watch live, though. That kid dropped like he was shot.

You can see it on that video. Hes 40 yards away and already has the taser out and his arm extended!

[RingWraith]

What a ridiculous overreaction. Theres 10 security guys out there, is that really fucking necessary?

I have to disagree. Any idiot fan running on the field deserves to be tasered.

[TripleSkeet]

I have to disagree. Any idiot fan running on the field deserves to be tasered.

No. They dont.

You know what? In certain countries if you steal, they cut off your hands. If they did that here alot less people would steal. It doesnt make that an "OK" deterrant.

[Snoogans]

I have to disagree. Any idiot fan running on the field deserves to be tasered.

agreed

No. They dont.

You know what? In certain countries if you steal, they cut off your hands. If they did that here alot less people would steal. It doesnt make that an "OK" deterrant.

yea way to compare the exact same thing. A kid being tasered and down for like one min vs losing a hand for the rest of your life.

You dont know if the guy has a gun or a knife. Does everyone forget that a guy stabbed Monica Seles? Fuck yes they deserve to be tasered. Or have some big athlete come clean there close, which no one would have a problem with, but probably is more likely to actually injure someone. You run on the field, ZAP

[Barnaby Jones]

I'd be ticked if some big athlete cleaned my clothes!

[Furtherman]

If I'm at the game and some idiot is holding it up by running around like an asshole, taze that fucker. I'd be OK if they used a bean-bag gun on his ass too. "HEY LOOK AT ME! I'M INTERRUPTING THE GAME!" Nail that idiot.

[sailor]

check out the poll (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87451)! let your voices be heard!

[Furtherman]

Great 1st inning... Phills up 2-0.

[TripleSkeet]

You dont know if the guy has a gun or a knife. Does everyone forget that a guy stabbed Monica Seles? Fuck yes they deserve to be tasered. Or have some big athlete come clean there close, which no one would have a problem with, but probably is more likely to actually injure someone. You run on the field, ZAP

The guy was in an open field, surrounded by security. It was obvious he wasnt holding a weapon and he wasnt being aggresive towards anyone. Did any of the players look threatened to you? Because to me they looked like they were ready to fall asleep.

It doesnt matter anyway, the Phillies announced from now on the stadium security will be responsible for people running onto the field and the police will not be getting involved unless asked.

[Earlshog]

Great 1st inning... Phills up 2-0.



Great Win today... Hammels get the win, Lidge gets the save. Hope to see more of that...

[K.C.]

Lidge gets the save.

The wind got the save. Those were two of the hardest hit fly outs I've ever seen in that park. Any of the other 80 home games, this game is tied in the 9th.

Lidge still has a long way to go.

[Earlshog]

The wind got the save. Those were two of the hardest hit fly outs I've ever seen in that park. Any of the other 80 home games, this game is tied in the 9th.

Lidge still has a long way to go.

Yeah that is true... Those balls were both crushed!

[foodcourtdruide]

There's a lot of drama going on with the Phillies right now. They've been accused, again, of stealing signs. This time though, MLB actually warned them and they were using technology (binoculars/phone) to steal the signs of opposing teams.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/phillies-warned-by-mlb-to-stop-stealing-signs.html.php

Charlie Manuel, for no apparent reason decided to call out the Mets when asked about this issue. His team basically got caught cheating and he deferred to another team he baselessly suspects may be stealing signs in a similar way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sports/baseball/13phillies.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

I'm 100% sure the Phillies fans on this board will all defend this, but I thought it was a pretty childish way for Charlie Manuel to defend the situation. It's also a pretty shitty stigma to have attached to your team.

[foodcourtdruide]

There's a lot of drama going on with the Phillies right now. They've been accused, again, of stealing signs. This time though, MLB actually warned them and they were using technology (binoculars/phone) to steal the signs of opposing teams.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/phillies-warned-by-mlb-to-stop-stealing-signs.html.php

Charlie Manuel, for no apparent reason decided to call out the Mets when asked about this issue. His team basically got caught cheating and he deferred to another team he baselessly suspects may be stealing signs in a similar way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sports/baseball/13phillies.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

I'm 100% sure the Phillies fans on this board will all defend this, but I thought it was a pretty childish way for Charlie Manuel to defend the situation. It's also a pretty shitty stigma to have attached to your team.

Sorry to double-post, but before anyone says this is just a Mets fan crying about the Phillies, it's pretty widely believed through-out baseball that the Phillies steal signs. This ESPN article has lots of different sources for this claim:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5183621

[TripleSkeet]

Sorry to double-post, but before anyone says this is just a Mets fan crying about the Phillies, it's pretty widely believed through-out baseball that the Phillies steal signs. This ESPN article has lots of different sources for this claim:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5183621

Buster Olney said it today, all teams try to steal signs. Grow up. If they are so worried about it have your catcher triple pump your signs. And if they really wanted to steal signs, instead of having a guy sitting there with binoculars, they couldve just had him watching the game on tv. Where he wouldve gotten a much better view.

For the record this was the coaches view from where he was accused of stealing signs...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8515/111qh.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/111qh.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

And he brought up the Mets because they are the ones crying the most. That pussy Francoeur was also crying that its not fair the Phillies / Blue Jays series got moved to Philly. A move agreed upon by both teams and the league. They cant stand the fact they have been the Phillies bitch since 2007.

And Id be saying this no matter who the team was that was accused. Its a part of baseball, and there are measures that can be taken to safeguard you from it. Crying to the comissioner just makes you look like a baby.

[foodcourtdruide]

Buster Olney said it today, all teams try to steal signs. Grow up. If they are so worried about it have your catcher triple pump your signs. And if they really wanted to steal signs, instead of having a guy sitting there with binoculars, they couldve just had him watching the game on tv. Where he wouldve gotten a much better view.

For the record this was the coaches view from where he was accused of stealing signs...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8515/111qh.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/111qh.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

And he brought up the Mets because they are the ones crying the most. That pussy Francoeur was also crying that its not fair the Phillies / Blue Jays series got moved to Philly. A move agreed upon by both teams and the league. They cant stand the fact they have been the Phillies bitch since 2007.

And Id be saying this no matter who the team was that was accused. Its a part of baseball, and there are measures that can be taken to safeguard you from it. Crying to the comissioner just makes you look like a baby.

A few things...

I didn't want this to become a MY TEAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR TEAM childish argument, but I should have known that was unavoidable.

1. You say stealing signs is part of the game, which is true. HOWEVER, using technology to steal signs is NOT part of the game. It is clearly 100% forbidden. All teams steal signs, correct. However, not all teams use binoculars and the bullpen phone to do so. You are comparing apples and oranges.

2. You keep saying the Mets are babies, but this was NOT the Mets. The Rockies are the ones who complained to the league. Previously, the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox complained. Are everyone just babies, or is your team cheating?

3. Francoeur was 100% correct is his gripe. Who cares if the Blue Jays and Phillies agreed to this? Why wouldn't the Blue Jays agree? They'd make more money if this game was played in Philly as opposed to a neutral site like a minor league stadium or in Ohio. It's a disgrace that the Phillies are getting 3 extra home games and it's 100% profit motivated. Those games should be played on a neutral site.

[TripleSkeet]

A few things...

I didn't want this to become a MY TEAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR TEAM childish argument, but I should have known that was unavoidable.

1. You say stealing signs is part of the game, which is true. HOWEVER, using technology to steal signs is NOT part of the game. It is clearly 100% forbidden. All teams steal signs, correct. However, not all teams use binoculars and the bullpen phone to do so. You are comparing apples and oranges.

2. You keep saying the Mets are babies, but this was NOT the Mets. The Rockies are the ones who complained to the league. Previously, the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox complained. Are everyone just babies, or is your team cheating?

3. Francoeur was 100% correct is his gripe. Who cares if the Blue Jays and Phillies agreed to this? Why wouldn't the Blue Jays agree? They'd make more money if this game was played in Philly as opposed to a neutral site like a minor league stadium or in Ohio. It's a disgrace that the Phillies are getting 3 extra home games and it's 100% profit motivated. Those games should be played on a neutral site.

First of all its not a my team vs. your team argument. I said very clearly even if this wasnt the Phillies my stance would be the same.

Secondly, I know it was the Rockies complaining, but the Mets have chimed in as well. Which is what made Charlie Manuel point out maybe they should be watched as they have been red hot at home and dogshit on the road.

Third, the point about the binoculars was, the coach could have easily turned on a tv and watched the signs and called them in instead of blatantly using binoculars. So why would he? Why be so open about it? He says he was using it to see defensive shifts. Normally I would say thats bullshit, but when I look at the view he had I might actually believe that.

And last, of course its profit motivated. The home games belonged to the Blue Jays. The league decided they couldnt play in Toronto so they decided to come to Philly. Why should they play in a neutral field that nobody will come to the game for when they can actually make up the money they are losing because of the summit? Those 3 games wont matter when the Mets finish 15 behind the Phils anyway. ;)

[K.C.]

There's a lot of drama going on with the Phillies right now. They've been accused, again, of stealing signs. This time though, MLB actually warned them and they were using technology (binoculars/phone) to steal the signs of opposing teams.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/phillies-warned-by-mlb-to-stop-stealing-signs.html.php

Charlie Manuel, for no apparent reason decided to call out the Mets when asked about this issue. His team basically got caught cheating and he deferred to another team he baselessly suspects may be stealing signs in a similar way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sports/baseball/13phillies.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

I'm 100% sure the Phillies fans on this board will all defend this, but I thought it was a pretty childish way for Charlie Manuel to defend the situation. It's also a pretty shitty stigma to have attached to your team.


It's not, and we don't care.

[TripleSkeet]

It's not, and we don't care.

This.

[Kevin]

Shut out 3 games in a row..

BY THE METS?


You guys should be ashamed of yourselves..

[NickyL0885]

Shut out 3 games in a row..

BY THE METS?


You guys should be ashamed of yourselves..

Your team lost 2 of 3 to the Mets. You shouldnt talk either.

[Kevin]

Your team lost 2 of 3 to the Mets. You shouldnt talk either.



We didnt get swept or shutout..

And we are the champs son, we can talk all we want, JABRONI.

[TripleSkeet]

We didnt get swept or shutout..

And we are the champs son, we can talk all we want, JABRONI.

Thurman Munson said hello.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4950/36390561.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/36390561.jpg/)

[Kevin]

Thurman Munson said hello.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4950/36390561.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/36390561.jpg/)



I keep forgetting.. Who did we beat in the World Series again?

[K.C.]

Bastardo to 15-day DL; Mathieson called up

By Jonathan Mayo / MLB.com
On Tuesday, Phillies lefty reliever Antonio Bastardo gave up two runs in two-thirds of an inning without allowing a hit. On Thursday, he was placed on the disabled list.

The Phillies announced Bastardo, 24, was hitting the 15-day DL with left elbow ulnar neuritis. For the season, the southpaw, who made his first Opening Day roster this season, had a 5.11 ERA in 16 appearances.

Right-hander Scott Mathieson will replace Bastardo on the roster. Mathieson, recalled from Triple-A Lehigh Valley, was 2-2 with 12 saves and a 2.43 ERA over 25 games prior to the recall. The 26-year-old was named the Phillies' Minor League Pitcher of the Month for May and has held hitters to a .194 batting average to date.

Very happy for Mathieson to see he was able to make it back up...very difficult to overcome two Tommy Johns.

And he's having an awesome year...has a shot to be the Phils' post-Lidge closer if the Triple-A talent translates to the MLB level....he was the organizations best pitching prospect at one point in his career.

[TripleSkeet]

I keep forgetting.. Who did we beat in the World Series again?

Not an airplane. They are 2-0 lifetime against the Yanks.

[Kevin]

Not an airplane. They are 2-0 lifetime against the Yanks.



Ouch..

And im not shocked by tonight.

Yankees are always awful vs SP that they are are seeing for the first time.

[Kevin]

Ryan Howard = immensly overpaid.

[K.C.]

Ryan Howard = immensly overpaid.

You didn't like that RBI single off left-handed pitching earlier in this game?

He's a the best 1B (not defensively) not named Pujols.

[Kevin]

You didn't like that RBI single off left-handed pitching earlier in this game?

He's a the best 1B (not defensively) not named Pujols.



He is not even the best 1B in this game.

[K.C.]

He is not even the best 1B in this game.

True...that .226 average IS intimidating.

[Kevin]

True...that .226 average IS intimidating.



Ryan Howard= Amazingly overpaid.

[TripleSkeet]

You really shouldnt talk about 1B underperforming when you have Tex on your team.

Ive got that cocksucker in fantasy and hes been godawful all year.

[K.C.]

It's going to be interesting to see who the odd man out is when Happ comes back.

Definitely won't be Moyer, and it's hard to take Kendrick out now since he's not pitching all that bad.

Blanton's been awful and should be out by all rights, but he's not a reliever and has a track record of being a better second half starter.

Bringing back Happ in the pen is a waste considering how he pitched last year.

Tough call....it may end up being Kendrick anyway since he pitched well in relief at the end of last season, but I think he's done solid for a fifth starter (4-2, 4.48 ERA)

[Barnaby Jones]

You didn't like that RBI single off left-handed pitching earlier in this game?

He's a the best 1B (not defensively) not named Pujols.

OH REALLY?!?

Let's take a gander at OPS:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=25

Awwwww, near the bottom at 23rd!

What about home runs?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=6

14 ahead of him!

RBI's?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=7

7th.

Average?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=22

18th.

How exactly is he second only to Pujols again?!?!?

Take heart that he's only 3rd in strikeouts! Dream big!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=16

[Snoogans]

OH REALLY?!?

Let's take a gander at OPS:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=25

Awwwww, near the bottom at 23rd!

What about home runs?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=6

14 ahead of him!

RBI's?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=7

7th.

Average?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=22

18th.

How exactly is he second only to Pujols again?!?!?

Take heart that he's only 3rd in strikeouts! Dream big!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/byposition?pos=1B&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=16

damn he is not even close to as good as Youkilis. Plus youk is GG defense

[TripleSkeet]

damn he is not even close to as good as Youkilis. Plus youk is GG defense

Hes having a bad year so far. Alot of 1B are like I pointed out with Tex. Prince Fielder, the other sabremetrics darling has also done exactly dick this year. Ill wait til September before I figure out who was better then who in 2010.

[Barnaby Jones]

Hes having a bad year so far. Alot of 1B are like I pointed out with Tex. Prince Fielder, the other sabremetrics darling has also done exactly dick this year. Ill wait til September before I figure out who was better then who in 2010.

Since when was Prince Fielder a "sabremetrics darling?" He gets hype because he's been such a good all-around hitter! You don't need to wade through a ton of stats to see that!

[TripleSkeet]

Since when was Prince Fielder a "sabremetrics darling?" He gets hype because he's been such a good all-around hitter! You don't need to wade through a ton of stats to see that!

No Im talking him, Tex and Alex Gonzalez were the 3 that you and alot of others on here were raving about being better then Howard. So far for as bad a year as Howards had so far hes still been better then both Tex and Prince. That was my point.

[Barnaby Jones]

No Im talking him, Tex and Alex Gonzalez were the 3 that you and alot of others on here were raving about being better then Howard. So far for as bad a year as Howards had so far hes still been better then both Tex and Prince. That was my point.

So where did the "sabremetrics darling" thing come from?

And I never was comparing him to Tex! I was saying I'd rather have Prince or Adrian Gonzalez, that latter of whom is doing better than Howard this year! Plus Prince and Howard are having practically very similar seasons so far (back to back in HR and OPS), except Prince is having his on a MUCH worse team with much less protection from the lineup!

[Adolf]

http://ballparkfrank.files.wordpress.com/2006/03/Kirby%20Puckett.jpg

[Kris10]

Another extra inning walk off HR!

[K.C.]

Phillippe Aumont -- 6 IP, 13 Ks in Clearwater the other night...hopefully he's starting to figure it out. He got bombed out of Reading this year.

And between that and Gillies being hurt most of the season, they're not seeing a lot of promise from what they got for Lee to this point.

Combine that with the fact that Seattle got a blue chipper in Smoak for Lee, despite it really only being a two month rental for Texas, and Ruben is looking bad on that deal so far.

Still think Gillies can be a good player, and Aumont will be a decent arm (not sure if he's a starter, though).

[spoon]

Phillippe Aumont -- 6 IP, 13 Ks in Clearwater the other night...hopefully he's starting to figure it out. He got bombed out of Reading this year.

And between that and Gillies being hurt most of the season, they're not seeing a lot of promise from what they got for Lee to this point.

Combine that with the fact that Seattle got a blue chipper in Smoak for Lee, despite it really only being a two month rental for Texas, and Ruben is looking bad on that deal so far.

Still think Gillies can be a good player, and Aumont will be a decent arm (not sure if he's a starter, though).

Meanwhile the take for Halladay has been looking good on ALL levels. Wallace should be up soon with the team at third OR first, pending on if they move Overbay and or send down all the shit we've had at third. He's an all-star at trip A and bashing the ball. Of course the Jays got him via Taylor who was one of the three the Jays got from Philly as part of the trade. Taylor isn't looking so hot at trip A as well, hitting at or below .250 with little power and a surprising lack of a speed game.

Drabek is also heading to his level's all-star game, fresh off a no-hitter in AA. He's at 9-8 on the New Hampshire team with a very respectable 3.03 era, 85 k's and 42 bb's in 113 innings. His whip is 1.212, with only 91 hits in those 113 innings. All this time he's been working on a 4th pitch and refining his breaking ball to get it at an MLB level. Very happy with him at this point.

d'Arnaud got put down on the FSL Class A Advanced level and has also made his respective all-star team. Not only has he started to excel offensively with some pop (not his forte), he's show great leadership abilities according to the front office with the Jays and they really like this kid more then ever. He's seemingly a long way from the majors, but this is Toronto, not New York where you wait to be dealt to get to the big leagues. I expect to see Wallace this year (call ups time), Drabek next year and either d'Arnaud or Arencibia up and catching for the Jays in a year or two. Probably Arencibia. One or they other may be trade bait in the end for a position player of need as well.

Overall, happy with the trade thus far, but a LONG way to go to make up for what Halladay brings to any team overall. However, go Phils, I'm rooting for you.

[K.C.]

Meanwhile the take for Halladay has been looking good on ALL levels. Wallace should be up soon with the team at third OR first, pending on if they move Overbay and or send down all the shit we've had at third. He's an all-star at trip A and bashing the ball. Of course the Jays got him via Taylor who was one of the three the Jays got from Philly as part of the trade. Taylor isn't looking so hot at trip A as well, hitting at or below .250 with little power and a surprising lack of a speed game.

Drabek is also heading to his level's all-star game, fresh off a no-hitter in AA. He's at 9-8 on the New Hampshire team with a very respectable 3.03 era, 85 k's and 42 bb's in 113 innings. His whip is 1.212, with only 91 hits in those 113 innings. All this time he's been working on a 4th pitch and refining his breaking ball to get it at an MLB level. Very happy with him at this point.

d'Arnaud got put down on the FSL Class A Advanced level and has also made his respective all-star team. Not only has he started to excel offensively with some pop (not his forte), he's show great leadership abilities according to the front office with the Jays and they really like this kid more then ever. He's seemingly a long way from the majors, but this is Toronto, not New York where you wait to be dealt to get to the big leagues. I expect to see Wallace this year (call ups time), Drabek next year and either d'Arnaud or Arencibia up and catching for the Jays in a year or two. Probably Arencibia. One or they other may be trade bait in the end for a position player of need as well.

Overall, happy with the trade thus far, but a LONG way to go to make up for what Halladay brings to any team overall. However, go Phils, I'm rooting for you.

I know Jays fans probably thought they didn't get enough when that trade was made, but that was an incredibly painful trade for Phillies fans who knew about the prospects who were given up.

Drabek is money. And flipping Taylor for Wallace was one of the smartest things Anthopolous has done since taking over.

d'Arnaud was always going to be a project, but he was shooting up the ranks in terms of value by how well he was doing before he got traded.

It was a good haul.

[spoon]

a good haul sure, but it's still Halladay

no matter what we got, the Jays and fans pretty much lost the face of their franchise, leader, dominant force and overall great guy. he is EASILY one of the best jays in all those areas, arguably the best with the likes of Alomar, Steib, Bell, White, Fernadez and Carter among a few more here and there. There's always a limit to what you can get even for an ace of his standards, but the haul could be top level all time for the trade and it still doesn't make it easy. This guy took pay cuts to play here in an attempt to win in a very tough spot, it just doesn't happen much in MLB, much less Toronto after the money game opened up and the team became a dead zone.

He'll be missed no matter how amazing all three end up, and all three look pretty solid so far. Yet it's important to get something for him versus just watching him move on, as he would/should have in 2011. AJ, Delgado, Carpenter, Lilly, Key, Alomar, Scutaro, Barajas and sooooo many more.

[scottinnj]

Even when we win, we suck. Today's game was embarrassing, Cole pitched a mighty nice game, and we can only score 2 runs?

[K.C.]

Phils have a run in them. They're going to hit, and I'm not quite sold on the Braves.

I don't trust Wagner to close the big games for them anymore than I did when he was a Met or a Phllie, I think people are overrating their starting staff just a little, and I think that lineup has a good slump in it.

Phils have always played their best ball in the stretch run.

And Ryan Howard is a legit MVP contender. Pujols, Votto, and Hart all in the race.

[spoon]

halladay sucked again, if only he was as good as the pelfrey....:lol:

[K.C.]

Victorino's hurt. If he hits the DL, Domonic Brown could be called up.

Fantasy players, BE ADDING!!!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Dom Brown, wow. Plus, my friends have awesome seats at the game and have been on TV 5x times already... they are right behind the Phils' on deck circle...

[spoon]

He hit a double, calm down.

[spoon]

Brown cost Halladay a shutout with that bad play in the field, not to mention 33 straight scoreless innings. He did have a good day at the dish though.

[K.C.]

Brown cost Halladay a shutout with that bad play in the field, not to mention 33 straight scoreless innings. He did have a good day at the dish though.

Youthful exhuberance. He did fine tonight.

Besides, Halladay's not even as good as Pelfrey...

[PigShitIrish]

So far the talks all day have been Oswalt + 8-12 million for Happ and 2 prospects. Supposedly they are just waiting for Roy's approval.

[K.C.]

So far the talks all day have been Oswalt + 8-12 million for Happ and 2 prospects. Supposedly they are just waiting for Roy's approval.

Honestly, I was against getting Oswalt because of the salary implications, but we didn't give up shit to get him.

Gose was a nice Michael Bourn type prospects, the SS was a project.

Happ's got talent, but I'll take Oswalt the next two years. And the cash coming back is ridiculous.

That said, Houston made a hell of a nice move flipping Gose to Toronto for Brett Wallace.

WTF were the Blue Jays thinking, spoon???

[spoon]

Honestly, I was against getting Oswalt because of the salary implications, but we didn't give up shit to get him.

Gose was a nice Michael Bourn type prospects, the SS was a project.

Happ's got talent, but I'll take Oswalt the next two years. And the cash coming back is ridiculous.

That said, Houston made a hell of a nice move flipping Gose to Toronto for Brett Wallace.

WTF were the Blue Jays thinking, spoon???

That kind of baffled me as well, but after looking into it a little more it makes a little sense. AA (Toronto's GM) wants more speed and feels they're in dire need of outfield depth. To me, this means more moves are on the way and they plan on moving either Batista to third and Lind to first. It seems AA was after Gose all along as he is still raw and only 19(20?), versus Wallace at around 25 and obviously much closer. There have been some big noise that he's a head case and not a good clubhouse guy. This may be the reason he's been moved about 3 times in a little over a year now but who really knows. He'll surely hit well in the majors, but not with Toronto I guess. I was truly looking forward to at least a september call up.

AA has long sought after Gose, his speed and raw talent. He is expected, or should I say projects to be a five-tool player. I think some have labeled him the fastest guy in the minors, but that's very subjective. AA's philosophy on offense is centered on team speed and setting the table as seen by all his acquisitions of late (Lewis, Wise and now Gose). It is only second to his stockpiling of arms at every level and I love that. Our rotation is looking pretty darn good now, and projects to be great very soon. (Marcum, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Mills, Litsch, Drabek, Ray, Johnson).

[K.C.]

The most satisfying thing about this division this year is the Phillies are probably going take the NL East lead with Cody Ransom/Ross Gload as their starting 1B, Wilson Valdez as their starting 2B, Jimmy Rollins with basically an amputated leg at SS, and Ben Francisco/Domonic Brown as the starting RF.

Oh, and Brad Lidge is still the closer and Joe Blanton has an ERA of like 10.

Fuck Bud Black, Charlie is the manager of the year if he gets this done.

[Snoogans]

The most satisfying thing about this division this year is the Phillies are probably going take the NL East lead with Cody Ransom/Ross Gload as their starting 1B, Wilson Valdez as their starting 2B, Jimmy Rollins with basically an amputated leg at SS, and Ben Francisco/Domonic Brown as the starting RF.

Oh, and Brad Lidge is still the closer and Joe Blanton has an ERA of like 10.

Fuck Bud Black, Charlie is the manager of the year if he gets this done.

ummmm, the sox can still make the playoffs, and were alot more patch worked than that. Lets also not act like the sox and phils cant afford to have depth and replace these guys to some point.

I just wish the sox hadnt decided to get FUCKIN BUMS as "depth" Fuck you theo you goddamn assho......sorry

[K.C.]

ummmm, the sox can still make the playoffs, and were alot more patch worked than that. Lets also not act like the sox and phils cant afford to have depth and replace these guys to some point.

I just wish the sox hadnt decided to get FUCKIN BUMS as "depth" Fuck you theo you goddamn assho......sorry

The Phillies have lost every player in their starting lineup to at least one DL stint except Jayson Werth, their closer, their set up man, and three of their five starting pitchers from the beginning of the season.

I'll give you that the Red Sox have a tougher road to climb in terms of competition, but the Phils are all-world for injury time this year.

[Snoogans]

The Phillies have lost every player in their starting lineup to at least one DL stint except Jayson Werth, their closer, their set up man, and three of their five starting pitchers from the beginning of the season.

I'll give you that the Red Sox have a tougher road to climb in terms of competition, but the Phils are all-world for injury time this year.

umm, elsbury, cameron, beckett, buckholz, victor martinez, dustin pedroia, jason varitek, mike lowell and the topper is Kevin Youklis now on the DL. And im sure im forgetting some.

Trust me. If phillies are all world, the sox are fuckin universe

and beckett was like 3 months and eslbury is 4 and counting

[spoon]

The Phillies have lost every player in their starting lineup to at least one DL stint except Jayson Werth, their closer, their set up man, and three of their five starting pitchers from the beginning of the season.

I'll give you that the Red Sox have a tougher road to climb in terms of competition, but the Phils are all-world for injury time this year.

umm, elsbury, cameron, beckett, buckholz, victor martinez, dustin pedroia, jason varitek, mike lowell and the topper is Kevin Youklis now on the DL. And im sure im forgetting some.

Trust me. If phillies are all world, the sox are fuckin universe

and beckett was like 3 months and eslbury is 4 and counting

Poll straight from MLB.com's front page right now...

Poll

Which team has been hurt most by injuries this season?

Red Sox 51%
Phillies 24%
Tigers 10%
Angels 7%
Dodgers 6%




Go take a look and vote. Fans say Sox.

[K.C.]

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/files/t_29547_01.jpg

Great job, Dutch...welcome to the Wall of Fame.

[spoon]

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/files/t_29547_01.jpg

Great job, Dutch...welcome to the Wall of Fame.

Thanks in part for one Blue Jay title double d!

[A.J.]

umm, elsbury, cameron, beckett, buckholz, victor martinez, dustin pedroia, jason varitek, mike lowell and the topper is Kevin Youklis now on the DL. And im sure im forgetting some.

Trust me. If phillies are all world, the sox are fuckin universe

and beckett was like 3 months and eslbury is 4 and counting

Dice-K, Oki and Wake were hurt too.

[spoon]

Dice-K, Oki and Wake were hurt too.

To me the injury bug linked to the Red Sox is soooo strong even ex player Jason Bay got taken out.

[K.C.]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:woQEIghJm7JUXM:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2981353672_c5a1cc5dc2.jpg&t=1

Chooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooch!!!!

[Furtherman]

Amazing comeback!!!! 8 runs in 2 innings!

[scottinnj]

Even with everyone having taken a turn on the DL this year, it's amazing to me we're only 2.5 games behind the Braves and the NL Wild Card leader.

Post Season bound again. This is getting sweeter and sweeter every year.

[realmenhatelife]

Theres a small feature on Werth in Sports Illustrated this week. It looks like they built the article around a 2 minute conversation, because about all he actually says is he doesn't like people writing or talking about him, and he's happy to be ignored.

The meat of the article is about his playing history. The two surprises for me is that he's married with two kids (only mentioned because not answering questions about them was a stipulation of the article) and he doesn't get along with his birth father. There are definately more words devoted to his grooming than actual quotes from Werth.

Kindof a funny thing, and maybe a view to how intense he is about his own privacy, is he says something like he wants to know who wrote his wikipedia article and why they think they know anything about him. So I go to wikipedia and the article is purely about his MLB history and the list of athletes in his family.

[spoon]

I like Werth a lot and wish the Jays gave him more of a shot when there. Anyone can have Frasor right now if they want him.

[realmenhatelife]

I wonder if they're going to make Ryan apologize, that ump was being a fucking prick.

[TripleSkeet]

I wonder if they're going to make Ryan apologize, that ump was being a fucking prick.

Apologize for what exactly? That ump should be fucking fined. And Bud Selig needs to put out a rule where umpires cannot touch the players just like the players cant touch the ump. If a player trips and bumps into an umpire he gets suspended but last night that one ump was shoving Howard back and nothing will happen. I know he was just trying to play peacemaker but its not his job to do that.

[realmenhatelife]

Apologize for what exactly? That ump should be fucking fined. And Bud Selig needs to put out a rule where umpires cannot touch the players just like the players cant touch the ump. If a player trips and bumps into an umpire he gets suspended but last night that one ump was shoving Howard back and nothing will happen. I know he was just trying to play peacemaker but its not his job to do that.

If they compell him to I imagine it would be for really losing it and charging across the field. Although you dont often see a guy get tossed from across the diamond, so really theres no reason to act like he was going to beat the shit out of the ump, he just wanted to get in his face a little. And Sam Perlozzo would've stepped in between them.

The ump was a minor league sub, and I agree he acted inappropriately. It's the 14th inning, guys are going to be a little frustrated, so to bait a guy by mimicking him is total bullshit. Plus you have the context that Ryan was in the middle of a disputed call the night before, and it wasn't the first time that night there was a bullshit strike on a checked swing. Hopefully the guy he's filling in for is back on the crew tonight.

I'll just bet in the pregame tonight they say that Ryan apoligized to the team and the umpires.

[TripleSkeet]

If they compell him to I imagine it would be for really losing it and charging across the field. Although you dont often see a guy get tossed from across the diamond, so really theres no reason to act like he was going to beat the shit out of the ump, he just wanted to get in his face a little. And Sam Perlozzo would've stepped in between them.

The ump was a minor league sub, and I agree he acted inappropriately. It's the 14th inning, guys are going to be a little frustrated, so to bait a guy by mimicking him is total bullshit. Plus you have the context that Ryan was in the middle of a disputed call the night before, and it wasn't the first time that night there was a bullshit strike on a checked swing. Hopefully the guy he's filling in for is back on the crew tonight.

I'll just bet in the pregame tonight they say that Ryan apoligized to the team and the umpires.


Oh Im sure they will, although Im betting nobody on the team had any issue with what he did. I loved Larry Andersons call during the play. If you can find it, its a must listen.

[spoon]

I was watching that game online (stat tracker/gameday app) so I was wondering wtf happened. So can you explain to me what went down?

[Kevin]

I was watching that game online (stat tracker/gameday app) so I was wondering wtf happened. So can you explain to me what went down?



Howard was up with 2 runners on and he got two iffy check swings in a row as strikes, the 2nd punched him out.

Both by the 3b ump.

So Howard went nuts.

I'm sure alot of it was due to the fact that he was 0-7 with 5ks.

[realmenhatelife]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11344059&topic_id=8879838&c_id=mlb

Here's the video

[spoon]

wow, pretty fucking insane game...especially bc it was against the Astros

That ump was like too many these days, just make the call and look away. They get TOO involved and have big fucking heads, especially for a guy up from the fucking minors. Not to mention the final call seemed real bad. They did mention that it might be the first time Howard was ejected, is this true?

[spoon]

Oh and Phils got form HUGE help from the Rockies today when they came back from WAY down with 11 runs unanswered to win 12-10.

[spoon]

Doc with a nice clean first inning.

[spoon]

Halladay looking sharp through two (<20 pitches). Could be a huge moment in the race for the Cy and WC/Division for Halladay/Phils tonight.

[spoon]

Roy now perfect through 3 (<30 pitches)...Happ dealing well versus old team as well! Great pitching matchup here, as everyone seems to shut down this Phil's lineup right now, especially when Roy is pitching.

[spoon]

Abooo.

Halladay fell behind 2-0 to Pence and he grooved one. 1-0 Stros 3.5 thru.

[K.C.]

I was watching that game online (stat tracker/gameday app) so I was wondering wtf happened. So can you explain to me what went down?

I was at the game last night and it may be one of the craziest baseball games I've ever seen (Oswalt in LF surreal in its own right).

The Howard thing was total bullshit. The first check swing, the Ump calls he went around, Howard kind of makes a face and the Ump puts his hands on his hips and stares in like "try me motherfucker"

He was looking for any chance to throw him out after that point.

I wish Howard had gotten to him and pummeled him. He was out of my mind. No doubt he was swinging if he got to the ump before they stopped him.

The rest of the game, the fans destroyed that umpire. Constant beration.

[spoon]

I was at the game last night and it may be one of the craziest baseball games I've ever seen (Oswalt in LF surreal in its own right).

The Howard thing was total bullshit. The first check swing, the Ump calls he went around, Howard kind of makes a face and the Ump puts his hands on his hips and stares in like "try me motherfucker"

He was looking for any chance to throw him out after that point.

I wish Howard had gotten to him and pummeled him. He was out of my mind. No doubt he was swinging if he got to the ump before they stopped him.

The rest of the game, the fans destroyed that umpire. Constant beration.

I doubt he would of hit him and that wouldn't be good for Howard or the Phils in ANY way moving forward. He had reason to be upset, but never to hit an ump. Come on KC.

As for the game, pretty wierd one indeed.

[spoon]

Solo HR for each team right now in a great pitching match up. 1-1

Happ 1 hit 2 BBs

Halladay 3 hits, 0 BB

Going into 6th...

[K.C.]

I doubt he would of hit him and that wouldn't be good for Howard or the Phils in ANY way moving forward. He had reason to be upset, but never to hit an ump. Come on KC.

As for the game, pretty wierd one indeed.

He was pretty crazed. I wouldn't have been surprised, especially since the guy mocked him and you could see him mouth "Don't say a word" or something to that effect when Howard looked down.

[spoon]

Fuck, another hr versus Halladay. 2-1 Houston

Game of solo shots thus far. Aboooo

[spoon]

Good news is Happ is at 72 through 5 and won't go too deep.

Halladay is at 63 through 6 and is staring CG in the face. Let's go Philly batters!

[spoon]

Roy with a single and trying to spark the offense himself!

[spoon]

Ha! Halladay helps tie it up with a run on Placido's double! 2nd/3rd 1 out, 2-2 game.

Bet you guys can't tell I'm a Halladay fan right?

[spoon]

terrible K call on that first pitch to Werth

Outside much?

[spoon]

Come on Werth!

[spoon]

abooooo

good news is Happ is now 98 pitches in thru 6. he may have one more inning attempted in him at most.

[spoon]

aboo again, Houston plated another one and it's 3-2 now.

[TripleSkeet]

wow, pretty fucking insane game...especially bc it was against the Astros

That ump was like too many these days, just make the call and look away. They get TOO involved and have big fucking heads, especially for a guy up from the fucking minors. Not to mention the final call seemed real bad. They did mention that it might be the first time Howard was ejected, is this true?

I think it is. That piece of shit ump was a replacement from the minor leagues and hopefully after that disgrace display the piece of shit just cemented that his career will go no higher then towns like Wilkes - Barre from now on.

[spoon]

I think it is. That piece of shit ump was a replacement from the minor leagues and hopefully after that disgrace display the piece of shit just cemented that his career will go no higher then towns like Wilkes - Barre from now on.

HEY!

And what a dumb move pinch hitting for Halladay in the bottom of the 7th only down 1 coming off a single and 73 pitches in. Just plain stupid and a HUGE reason I hate the NL's game.

[realmenhatelife]

HEY!

And what a dumb move pinch hitting for Halladay in the bottom of the 7th only down 1 coming off a single and 73 pitches in. Just plain stupid and a HUGE reason I hate the NL's game.

They have no time off and a few big series coming up, so they're looking for a chance to rest Roy. The Phils have had very few scoring opportunities in this series, so they're trying to be aggressive, plus the Astros dont score a lot of runs and the bullpen has been really good lately and Roy probably wouldn't get the sac down. It's a tough call and it didn't work out, but it makes the game more interesting.

[spoon]

They have no time off and a few big series coming up, so they're looking for a chance to rest Roy. The Phils have had very few scoring opportunities in this series, so they're trying to be aggressive, plus the Astros dont score a lot of runs and the bullpen has been really good lately and Roy probably wouldn't get the sac down. It's a tough call and it didn't work out, but it makes the game more interesting.

No way in fucking HELL do I ever make that call with almost any Philly pitcher in the bottom of the seventh down 1 pitching well on only 73 pitches. It's even more stupid when you do it with guys like Halladay/Lee/CC who get better as games go on usually. It was a very bad move when I saw it, and even worse in hindsight now that they've lost. I put the hitting on the hitters and let pitchers go on their own.

[Earlshog]

tough loss, win would have been nice, with the braves collapse earlier... three strait to the Astros... man!

[spoon]

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[realmenhatelife]

No way in fucking HELL do I ever make that call with almost any Philly pitcher in the bottom of the seventh down 1 pitching well on only 73 pitches. It's even more stupid when you do it with guys like Halladay/Lee/CC who get better as games go on usually. It was a very bad move when I saw it, and even worse in hindsight now that they've lost. I put the hitting on the hitters and let pitchers go on their own.

But it was the right decision because the bullpen didn't give up any runs. Lets say you leave Roy in the game to the same result. Then you let a pitcher record an out in the middle of a potential rally and Roy notches one more CG that he doesn't care about anyway and you still lose. If they had a one run lead, then yeah you never take your pitcher who is rolling out, but if you're trailing late playing conservatively only makes sense if you feel like you can score runs at will, which obviously isn't happening for the Phillies in this series. If noone was on they would've left him in, if they had 0 outs they might've left him in to try and sac, but its a hard sell to let him risk making the second out without moving the runners up. Ironically if he had been an NL pitcher his whole life they might have had more confidence in letting him try.

And my point is atleast its a decision to make, it makes an intellectual game more so. You would never make that call if you like AL ball because you dont have to.

[TripleSkeet]

I do like NL ball alot more then AL ball because of the strategy involved.

[TripleSkeet]

First place bitches!!!

This calls for a celebration! Maybe something like this???
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4640/15837301668890c80355e64.gif (http://img530.imageshack.us/i/15837301668890c80355e64.gif/)

[brettmojo]

First place bitches!!!

This calls for a celebration! Maybe something like this???
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4640/15837301668890c80355e64.gif (http://img530.imageshack.us/i/15837301668890c80355e64.gif/)
What? No squeeze? Queer.

[spoon]

But it was the right decision because the bullpen didn't give up any runs. Lets say you leave Roy in the game to the same result. Then you let a pitcher record an out in the middle of a potential rally and Roy notches one more CG that he doesn't care about anyway and you still lose. If they had a one run lead, then yeah you never take your pitcher who is rolling out, but if you're trailing late playing conservatively only makes sense if you feel like you can score runs at will, which obviously isn't happening for the Phillies in this series. If noone was on they would've left him in, if they had 0 outs they might've left him in to try and sac, but its a hard sell to let him risk making the second out without moving the runners up. Ironically if he had been an NL pitcher his whole life they might have had more confidence in letting him try.

And my point is atleast its a decision to make, it makes an intellectual game more so. You would never make that call if you like AL ball because you dont have to.

The bullpen hasn't been the rock as it was 2 years ago and Halladay is your top pitcher overall who only had 70 pitches at the time. I never agree to taking your top player out of the game when he clearly has 3 more innings in him versus 2-3 pot luck chances in the bullpen for a bench player to come in and MAYBE do something. It should also be noted the batter failed and Halladay is pretty decent at moving up runners as well for a guy who played his entire career in the AL.

Both points have validity to them, I just didn't think it was the right move and wouldn't have made it. You can't say for certain it was right or wrong bc you have no way of knowing what would have played out in this senario.

As for you thinking a choice, a bad one at that with no upside over the AL version, makes the NL better I couldn't disagree more. I hate that pitchers can't finish games often bc of pinch hitters for a 2 out chance to score a slow runner from first down 2. In the AL, you pay and get to see the pitcher go as deep as they could, and hitters actually step up to the plate. It's boring baseball 1/3 of the time as pitchers pitch around even decent 7/8 guys to get the usually sure out at 9.

[TripleSkeet]

Its all a matter of opinion. But I feel sorry for fans of AL teams that will never get to experience this...
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[Pittsburgh]

You're welcome.

[cougarjake13]

Its all a matter of opinion. But I feel sorry for fans of AL teams that will never get to experience this...
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couldnt they though ?? in a nl park ?? during the world series ??

[brettmojo]

Its all a matter of opinion. But I feel sorry for fans of AL teams that will never get to experience this...
<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SULvnBmxa5k?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>
I feel sorry for inner city kids that'll never get to experience seeing grass grow. In my opinion... Nail biting excitement.

[Earlshog]

The Phillies have 21 games left; three with Florida, six with the Mets, six with the Nats, and six with Atlanta.

The Braves have 22 games left; four with St. Louis, six with the Nats, three with the Mets, three with Florida, and six with the Phils.

Philly and Atlanta finish the season with a three game series.

Obviously those six head to head games are huge. Atlanta and St Louis play a four game series starting today. The Cards are basically on life support as far as their playoff chances. Anything less than taking three out of four and see you next year.

Other then that the schedules are pretty even. It's possible one could wind up winning the division with the other grabbing the wildcard. The N.L. has some really good teams this year. Cincinnati looks tough, San Diego hit a wall but still have the horses to get it done. The Giants are a scary team, especially in a five game series, and as usual the Rockies are surging at the right time.

Should be a very interesting September. Hopefully Philly can wrap it up in the next two weeks.

If not it would be interesting if Philly and Atlanta's last series was for the division with the loser getting the wildcard. What do you do then? Do you go all out and try and win the division title or do you reset your rotation rest your bullpen / some starters and settle for the wildcard?

[spoon]

Philly NL East
SF NL West

Atlanta WC

my call, with Col and SD out.

[Kevin]

Gotta give it to Howard.

He is a deadly Sept player and besides last year he has been pretty good in the postseason last year too.

They are looking really strong.

Doc is Doc, Oswalt has been amazing since his first few starts after the deal, and Hammels is rounding into shape.

I think he has 25 scoreless innings in row?

They could be heading back to the WS.

[TripleSkeet]

Gotta give it to Howard.

He is a deadly Sept player and besides last year he has been pretty good in the postseason last year too.

They are looking really strong.

Doc is Doc, Oswalt has been amazing since his first few starts after the deal, and Hammels is rounding into shape.

I think he has 25 scoreless innings in row?

They could be heading back to the WS.

Hamels is the classic example of how misleading wins could be. The guy I think is 10-10. If he actually got half decent run support this year he would be 17-3.

brett, how could you act like that walk was boring? Really? That walk killed CC Sabathia. That was the end of Milwaukees chances for winning that playoff series. I was there live and it was just incredible to watch.

[Kevin]

Hamels is the classic example of how misleading wins could be. The guy I think is 10-10. If he actually got half decent run support this year he would be 17-3.

brett, how could you act like that walk was boring? Really? That walk killed CC Sabathia. That was the end of Milwaukees chances for winning that playoff series. I was there live and it was just incredible to watch.



I'm sure Brett thinks the O'neil walk against Benitez was boring too...

[brettmojo]

brett, how could you act like that walk was boring? Really? That walk killed CC Sabathia. That was the end of Milwaukees chances for winning that playoff series. I was there live and it was just incredible to watch.

Is it that a pitcher walked that made it incredible or that a pitcher that was pitching every turn on short rest for almost two months walked him?

I'm sure Brett thinks the O'neil walk against Benitez was boring too...

Walks like that aren't exciting unless a non-batter gets walked apparently.

[TripleSkeet]

Is it that a pitcher walked that made it incredible or that a pitcher that was pitching every turn on short rest for almost two months walked him?




What made it incredible was a pitcher that usually couldnt hit a beach ball, a guy with a .116 lifetime avg. worked a 9 pitch walk against a guy that every "expert" couldnt suck off fast enough. He got in his head, and thanks to that Viictorino blasted the Grand Slam to put them up 2-0.

Was it ridiculous how Milwaukee used him? Sure it was. But thats what happens when a team knows they would never be able to afford the guy next year. Why should they care if they burn his arm up into nothing? That would be the Yankees problem after that.

Anyway, the DH is a pussy rule for old ballplayers that can hit but cant field anymore and managers that just dont understand strategy in baseball. Im happy my team doesnt play where its used.

[brettmojo]

What made it incredible was a pitcher that usually couldnt hit a beach ball, a guy with a .116 lifetime avg. worked a 9 pitch walk against a guy that every "expert" couldnt suck off fast enough. He got in his head, and thanks to that Viictorino blasted the Grand Slam to put them up 2-0.

Was it ridiculous how Milwaukee used him? Sure it was. But thats what happens when a team knows they would never be able to afford the guy next year. Why should they care if they burn his arm up into nothing? That would be the Yankees problem after that.

Anyway, the DH is a pussy rule for old ballplayers that can hit but cant field anymore and managers that just dont understand strategy in baseball. Im happy my team doesnt play where its used.
Shitty hitters get walked all the time. Is it really that boring watching NL baseball that you have to get yourselves excited over a career .116 hitter walking? Wait a minute, what am I saying? OF COURSE it is! Wacka' wacka'!

Do you really think there aren't exciting walks in the American League? I don't think the NL owns the patent on exciting walks just because each team has a black hole at the bottom of their lineup.

[TripleSkeet]

Shitty hitters get walked all the time. Is it really that boring watching NL baseball that you have to get yourselves excited over a career .116 hitter walking? Wait a minute, what am I saying? OF COURSE it is! Wacka' wacka'!

Do you really think there aren't exciting walks in the American League? I don't think the NL owns the patent on exciting walks just because each team has a black hole at the bottom of their lineup.

That whole post was in response to your whole "they just walk the 8 guy to get the automatic out at 9".

Of course there are exciting walks in both leagues. But that wasnt a random pitcher getting walked in a random game. It was a playoff game and set up a grand slam against the hottest pitcher in the league at that time.

[Kevin]

That whole post was in response to your whole "they just walk the 8 guy to get the automatic out at 9".

Of course there are exciting walks in both leagues. But that wasnt a random pitcher getting walked in a random game. It was a playoff game and set up a grand slam against the hottest pitcher in the league at that time.



I know some pitchers in the NL that hit better than Cirvelli and Pena.

[spoon]

That whole post was in response to your whole "they just walk the 8 guy to get the automatic out at 9".

Of course there are exciting walks in both leagues. But that wasnt a random pitcher getting walked in a random game. It was a playoff game and set up a grand slam against the hottest pitcher in the league at that time.

And that's why CC is known as one of the worst big game pitchers! AHahahahah! :lol:

Go back Kev (aka idiot) and look at his stats pre-yankee and see his postseason era's of 3.00 ALDS 2001, 5.40 ALDS/10.45 ALCS 2007, 12.21 NLDS 2008.....then he went to the money and hmmmmm...

Yes, worse stats by far by the way. Then he followed the money. If he didn't, Kev would be saying he sucked bc ESPN and the Fan told him it was so.

[Kevin]

We have different opinions..

Get over it and move the fuck on.

Like i said, Im done debating sports esp Yankees with You..

Debating Hoffman and Rivera was the last straw of your Yankee hatred Insanity..

The End.

You make points that you think is BRILLIANT but have no connection to anything..

CC and Hoffman have no connection and only you and your utter blind hatred and make that connection..

And besides.

Hoffman never had any postseason that CC had and is not being stupidly compared with the best ever at his postion..

enough already..

You are a real good guy and I agree with you on alot outside sports.

But I am getting a little tired of the retarded comments just because we disagree on sports issue..


You don't know me personaly, so enough with the attacks.

Lets just move on.

[spoon]

You are such a dumb fuck it's comical now.

The argument WAS NEVER (5th time being spelled out for you) who was better. You called a guy a compiler with almost identical saves versus opps so I said by ur theory MO IS A COMPILER TOO! There was ZERO fucking yankee hate there at all you idiot. FIFTY fucking times I stated he's the best all-time (what a stretch) but you keep harping on this line of thought bc it's your fucking gay ass crutch and it's so sad.

You can't be this dumb, can you?! :blink:

As for the CC shit, see a trend here or is it too much to ask. He followed the money and got the support and didn't have to do it all. And one year, even though he got smacked around in the WS head to head by Lee he erased it all bc he played on the yankees?! ahahahahahahaah! You are like a horse with yankee blinders on that you can't even argue about shit without including your favorite teams. Just fucking wow.

[spoon]

oh and the cc/hoff look is perfect

If you fail to see the comparison and break down, you simply can't comprehend anything deeper than a straight fucking line. I think I just answered my own question.

[spoon]

On another note, Halladay went a perfect 3-0 in the games i saw him attend this year. This was the first one he gave up any runs, but it was nice to get a foul ball tonight! Second of the year too. One off Werth's bat last month at Citifield, this one off Beltans bat (he actually made some contact). Halladay pitched it so that's pretty cool.

[weekapaugjz]

We have different opinions.

fuck your opinion.

[spoon]

fuck your opinion.

in its ear

[spoon]

can the phils come back in the 9th?

they were down 4-0 and all of a sudden it's 4-3 late now

[spoon]

on another note, cards just tied up the braves in the 8th too

[hanso]

can the phils come back in the 9th?

they were down 4-0 and all of a sudden it's 4-3 late now

I could use a Lidge save .

[spoon]

I could use a Lidge save .

so could lidge :lol:

[spoon]

mike sweeney just missed making it a tie game with a deep double off the wall

1 out 1 on

[spoon]

nope

atl can lose here still

[Earlshog]

from Joe Lemire

The Phillies are leaving nothing to chance. By flipping Kyle Kendrick and Roy Oswalt in their starts against the Nationals on Friday and Saturday -- thanks to an off-day on Thursday, both would still be pitching on normal rest -- Philadelphia will throw its three best pitchers in both remaining series against the Braves, who trail by two games in the NL East.

The Braves and Phillies play two more series against each other -- a three-game set starting Monday in Philadelphia and three more games in Atlanta on the season's final weekend starting Friday, Oct. 1 -- and manager Charlie Manuel has lined up his trio of aces, Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Oswalt to each make two starts against the Braves, all of them on normal rest.

Over the weekend in New York, Manuel expressed his concern about pitching Hamels on short rest because he's never done it. Halladay and Oswalt both have started games on only three days' rest -- and both done it well -- but as durable as they've been for most of their careers, they've already logged a lot of innings with potentially four more starts for each if the Phillies' playoff hopes does come down to the final series against Atlanta.

The heavy loads of Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt are a product of their success this season, but it could be a small concern if the Phillies make another run to the World Series. Halladay has averaged a hefty 233 innings and 3,333 pitches the past four seasons but in 2010 has already thrown 228 2/3 innings and 3,261 pitches, meaning he'll blow by his yearly averages. With four long starts, he could approach the career-high 266 innings and 3,630 pitches he threw in 2003 -- before injuries ravaged his '04 and '05 seasons.

Oswalt, meanwhile, has averaged 206 innings and 3,109 pitches in each of his last four seasons. In 2010 he has already logged 192 2/3 innings and 2,914 pitches, meaning he too will easily exceed his normal workload.

Similarly, Hamels -- who threw a career-high 127 pitches to defeat the Marlins on Tuesday night -- has already thrown 194 2/3 innings and 3,137 pitches this year while averaging 201 innings and 3,111 pitches in his three full seasons.

And so while the Phillies have set their rotation perfectly to throw their best against the Braves, it comes with a heavy burden, so Philadelphia's solution should be simple: clinch before the final weekend.

[Earlshog]

Huge series with Atlanta in Philly starting tonight

Jurrjens vs Hamels Tonight
Minor vs Halladay Tomorrow
Hanson vs Oswalt Wednesday

If Philly wins two out of three they will be up four games with nine to play (three of those remaining nine are against the Braves in Atlanta ) and while it is not an insurmountable lead (ask Met fans) it would be a lot of ground for Atlanta to make up. Now if Atlanta takes two out of three Philly would have a two game lead heading into the back nine (again with three games remaining vs. the Braves in Atlanta. If that’s the case this thing is more then likely coming down to the wire. ). A sweep either way would have obvious ramifications, if the Phillies sweep they are up six with nine to play, and if Atlanta sweeps we have a tie for first with 9 to play.

Right now the Braves are up 2.5 in the wildcard on San Diego and 3.5 on Colorado. The Giants play Colorado three more times and end the season with three against San Diego. San Diego and Colorado do not play each other.

For a baseball fans it doesn't get much better than this. Lets go Phils!

[TripleSkeet]

Cant wait for this series to start.

[spoon]

Great comeback again last night for the Phils, but bad news in the Cy department as Wainwright keeps this a tight race with a great win as well (8ip, 1er for his 19th win).

[K.C.]

Phils are just unconscious right now. Not sure who can beat Halladay/Hamels/Oswalt in a series at this point.

[scottinnj]

Phils are just unconscious right now. Not sure who can beat Halladay/Hamels/Oswalt in a series at this point.


And an incredile finish by Lidge. Magic number is 8. If we sweep the Braves, we could have this NL wrapped up quickly. Incredible pitching and defense in September, it doesn't get any better then this.

[K.C.]

And an incredile finish by Lidge. Magic number is 8. If we sweep the Braves, we could have this NL wrapped up quickly. Incredible pitching and defense in September, it doesn't get any better then this.

It'd be nice. You want to be able to set the rotation and not have to deal with those final three games in Atlanta. Short playoff series are always tricky. Don't want to see Blanton anywhere near a meaningful game in one.

[TripleSkeet]

I dont get the Braves strategy of starting to pitchers fresh from the minors in this series. Are they just conceding the division and trying to focus on the wild card?? I heard they say Cox wanted them because the Phils have a hard time facing pitchers for the first time but I think he got a little carried away with that. That being said Beachy wasnt bad, but his pitch count shot up fast.

We sweep this series and the division is ours. Hopefully that Atlanta series will be where Charlie gets to set his rotation up for the playoffs.

[Kevin]

20 for Doc.

Prob should have at least 3 more.

He had shitty run support earlier in the year.

He has to be loving it though.

Passionate sports town with a contending team.

[K.C.]

I dont get the Braves strategy of starting to pitchers fresh from the minors in this series. Are they just conceding the division and trying to focus on the wild card?? I heard they say Cox wanted them because the Phils have a hard time facing pitchers for the first time but I think he got a little carried away with that. That being said Beachy wasnt bad, but his pitch count shot up fast.

We sweep this series and the division is ours. Hopefully that Atlanta series will be where Charlie gets to set his rotation up for the playoffs.

They have no choice. Jurrjens and Hudson got hurt.

Things broke badly for them this week.

[TripleSkeet]

They have no choice. Jurrjens and Hudson got hurt.

Things broke badly for them this week.

Oh I thought Jurjjens was a healthy scratch.

[spoon]

20 for Doc.

Prob should have at least 3 more.

He had shitty run support earlier in the year.

He has to be loving it though.

Passionate sports town with a contending team.

And you can fuck off yet again.

[Kevin]

And you can fuck off yet again.



Exactly.

How dare I have an opinion.

[K.C.]

Given the fact that the NL West plays each other over this next week, there's probably a good chance they'll play one of those teams.

So matchups wise, you could be looking at:

vs. San Francisco
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Lincecum
Game 2 - Hamels vs. Cain
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Zito
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Sanchez*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Lincecum*

vs. San Diego
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Latos
Game 2 - Hamels vs. Garland
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Richard
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Leblanc*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Latos*

vs. Colorado
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Jimenez
Game 2 - Hamels vs. De La Rosa
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Hammel
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Chacin*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Jimenez*

San Diego is probably the best matchup. Colorado is probably the most troubling because Jimenez is probably the pitcher best suited to outduel Halladay, and they can post runs unlike the other two teams.

[Barnaby Jones]

SF's pitching has been amazing top to bottom, and is arguably the best in all of baseball, yet you're more troubled by Colorado? The team that is fucking horrible away from their home stadium?

[TripleSkeet]

SF's pitching has been amazing top to bottom, and is arguably the best in all of baseball, yet you're more troubled by Colorado? The team that is fucking horrible away from their home stadium?

Im more worried about SF then the other 2 teams. But as far as a Top 3 pitchers for a playoff series Id take the 3 Phillies over any 3 from any other team, NL or AL.

[scottinnj]

Pitcher's duel tonite so far. Oswalt is pitching a GEM!

[K.C.]

SF's pitching has been amazing top to bottom, and is arguably the best in all of baseball, yet you're more troubled by Colorado? The team that is fucking horrible away from their home stadium?

They don't score runs, and their Top 3 aren't as good as Philadelphia's.

As a whole, they have a better rotation, but Bumgarner and Sanchez aren't going to factor much into a short series.

Colorado can hit, and Jimenez is better than any individual pitcher the Giants are throwing this year.

[Barnaby Jones]

You might want to take a look at Colorado's offensive numbers on the road! Oh, heck, I'll do it for you! .230 .305 .356 .661! Peee-yew, that's terrible!

You can easily toss Cain out there instead of Jiminez and have essentially the same impact, plus as you said they have the better all around rotation and you're ignoring their bullpen! Those starters you think you're avoiding will just be available to bolster a bullpen that's been one of the most shut down in all of baseball! They don't have to score a lot to beat a team, and they sure as shit can hit and score better than the Rockies on the road! .248 .314 .392 .706 (blech, what a terrible division!)

[K.C.]

You might want to take a look at Colorado's offensive numbers on the road! Oh, heck, I'll do it for you! .230 .305 .356 .661! Peee-yew, that's terrible!

You can easily toss Cain out there instead of Jiminez and have essentially the same impact, plus as you said they have the better all around rotation and you're ignoring their bullpen! Those starters you think you're avoiding will just be available to bolster a bullpen that's been one of the most shut down in all of baseball! They don't have to score a lot to beat a team, and they sure as shit can hit and score better than the Rockies on the road! .248 .314 .392 .706 (blech, what a terrible division!)

Both Jimenez and Cain have horrible career numbers against the Phillies.

The Rockies only have to steal one on the road, and I'd trust Jimenez more than Cain to get it done this year.

Anything can happen in a short series, but truthfully, I'd be fairly surprised to see the Phillies go the distance against any of these NL West teams, much less lose.

They all have substantial flaws. Having seen Colorado in two of the last three post seasons, though, they've played the Phillies extremely tough and pitched very well.

Plus they could give the Phillies match-up problems if they throw the two lefties, De La Rosa and Francis, after Jimenez.

It's doubtful that the Giants would make such a call to throw two lefties in the first three games (although if they're smart, they'd bump Zito and throw Sanchez....Sanchez dominated the Phillies this year).

They can hit Lincecum and Cain. Lincecum has solid but not spectacular numbers lifetime against the Phillies. Cain's been brutal.

[Barnaby Jones]

Career numbers?1?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Earlshog]

Given the fact that the NL West plays each other over this next week, there's probably a good chance they'll play one of those teams.

So matchups wise, you could be looking at:

vs. San Francisco
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Lincecum
Game 2 - Hamels vs. Cain
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Zito
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Sanchez*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Lincecum*

vs. San Diego
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Latos
Game 2 - Hamels vs. Garland
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Richard
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Leblanc*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Latos*

vs. Colorado
Game 1 - Halladay vs. Jimenez
Game 2 - Hamels vs. De La Rosa
Game 3 - Oswalt vs. Hammel
Game 4 - Blanton vs. Chacin*
Game 5 - Halladay vs. Jimenez*

San Diego is probably the best matchup. Colorado is probably the most troubling because Jimenez is probably the pitcher best suited to outduel Halladay, and they can post runs unlike the other two teams.

Do you think they would throw Zito over Sanchez?

I am in agreement that San Diego would be the Phils best match up (I know be careful what you wish for).

We saw at times this year, and over the past few years, the Phils bats can go cold on a dime and stay cold. The Giants have the type of pitching staff that can make that happen. Everyone knocks the Giants line-up but look at their starting eight and while they are not the Phillies they're well balanced, have plate setters, and plenty of guys who can hit the ball out of the park. The Phillies are the better more experienced team, but you start getting into 2-1 / 3-2 type ball games (Pat the Bat and Araon Rowand would love nothing better than to send the Phils home early) and in a short series anything can happen.

Colorado is scary because of the familiarity the two teams have with one another. Plus Colorado can put some points on the board. Again in a short series all you need is Jimenez and those two lefties to shut us down here or there and a Tulowitzki or CarGo get hot and you are in trouble.

To me the Padres just don't have the firepower to score on Oswalt, Hammels and Halladay. Plus the Padres rotation is very hittable for a team like the Phils.

Look in order to be considered a dynasty you have to beat whoever is thrown out in front of you. However as with anything in sport a little luck never hurts.

It's nice to be in, this will be 4 Division titles in a row. A very impressive feat in any era. Considering how hopelessly bad this team was from 1987 - 2000 (with the exception of 93). It makes it even more special when you have a run like this.

[Barnaby Jones]

The Phillies were really lucky they got a win last night, what with Oswalt's horrible career numbers against the Braves! It was really courageous of them to send him out there!

[K.C.]

Best record in baseball.

[scottinnj]

Best record in baseball.

Braves lose too. Magic number is now 2.

[TripleSkeet]

Since theres no dreams to crush for the Mets, Im hoping they clinch the division in front of them as that would be the next best thing.

[TripleSkeet]

Halladay pitches yet another complete game shutout for his 21st Win and the Phils 4th straight division title. I love this team. Cant wait for the playoffs to start.

[spoon]

Nice to finally see Roy in the playoffs for once and looking pretty solid in his chances for a second Cy. One in each league would be pretty cool too.

I hope he destroys people in the playoffs too as I'll be rooting for him in a big way as always. I always liked Sweeney too, so two great guys on a team in the playoffs for once. Two loyal guys who tried for a long time with their teams to no avail bc of the makeup of MLB right now who surely deserve a shot like this. Go Phils!

[A.J.]

Halladay pitches yet another complete game shutout for his 21st Win and the Phils 4th straight division title. I love this team. Cant wait for the playoffs to start.

Our Nationals say "You're Welcome".

[Earlshog]

Looks right now like it's gonna be the Red Stockings... Who does Charlie Hustle root for, whoever he was scarole on?

Would be nice to see San Diego and San Fran come down to the wire and burn up the rotations and bullpens a bit.

[Earlshog]

San Diego sucks would have been nice... oh well

[TripleSkeet]

San Diego sucks would have been nice... oh well

The Reds do not worry me.

[Earlshog]

The Reds do not worry me.

I agree with that although the Reds have fight in them and will not go down easy (that’s what she said).

The Giants are my concern especially in a five game series. Hopefully the Phil dodge that bullet.

[TripleSkeet]

Im not gonna lie, I dont know if its because Ive gotten used to postseason baseball or just have that much confidence in our rotation...but theres no team in the NL that worries me.

[Earlshog]

Im not gonna lie, I dont know if its because Ive gotten used to postseason baseball or just have that much confidence in our rotation...but theres no team in the NL that worries me.

I have been permanently traumatized by the late eighties and 90's. I expect to awake one day and find the last five years were all a dream, reality is Steve Jeltz fielding a grounder and throwing it over to Ricky Jordan

[spoon]

Sounds like our whole team in the ninth in the softball game!

Yet we ripped the fucking cover off the ball in the top of the inning though so we had it all figured out.

Go Phils!

[Earlshog]

haha after toying with them for 8 we mashed in the top of ninth


161 down here we are




•Giants beat Padres, Braves win: Giants win NL West; Braves win wild card; Padres out.
•Giants beat Padres, Braves lose: Giants win NL West; Padres play at Braves for wild card on Monday.
•Padres beat Giants, Braves win (leaving three-way tie): Giants play at Padres for NL West on Monday; loser of Monday game plays at Braves for wild card on Tuesday.
•Padres beat Giants, Braves lose: Padres win NL West because of head-to-head record (13-5); Giants win wild card; Braves out.

Here are the NLDS matchups depending on who wins the West and wild card:


•Giants win West, Braves wild card: Braves vs. Giants; Reds vs. Phillies
•Giants win West, Padres wild card: Padres vs. Phillies; Reds vs. Giants
•Padres win West, Giants wild card: Giants vs. Phillies; Reds vs. Padres
•Padres win West, Braves wild card: Reds vs. Phillies; Braves vs. Padres