Are You A "Sellout?"

[GregoryJoseph]

Yesterday on the Ron and Fez show a fan wrote in with a moral conundrum - he was feigning being a devout Christian to land (and keep) a job with a Christian organization. The fan described himself as a one-time Christian who was now an atheist, but said he's willing to keep up the facade in order to make money.

Dave and Fez said they agreed; making a living is far more important than your personal convictions.

Could you so easily go against your core beliefs in order to make a buck?

[TheMojoPin]

Depends on what belief was being challenged. Sometimes one has to be a realist as opposed to an idealist.

[yojimbo7248]

I did what this guy described today. I took a job with a Christian organization in Berkeley that arranged for Chinese academics to come to the States and vise versa. They asked me if I was a Christian and I said I was raised in a church and lied about "maintaining a faith"

working there was the second worst work experience of my life (telemarketing when I was an especially poor student is #1). Fucking awful - I would just nod when they talked about Jesus and how they were doing the Lord's work. I lasted a couple of months. I would have serious questions about someone's integrity, honesty if they could stay in a situation like this.

[El Mudo]

Its easy for me to sit here and say that I wouldn't, and that there are some things more important than money, but when you have a wife and kids to feed? Importance of personal convictions changes awful fast.

[biggirl]

I guess I wouldn't lie about it. But I do think you can have a job that has different beliefs if you can differentiate yours and theirs at home and outside of work, and even inside of work as long as you don't preach your beliefs at your workplace.

For example: Our church and several other churches have secretaries and a lot times they aren't even members at that church yet they still work there. Religious practices from church to church can be quite significant.

Another example: You could like Chevy Trucks, but be a salesperson for Ford Trucks. You have to find the good things about the job and stress those rather than the "bad" things.

[JohnCharles]

I'm sure on some level I am.

[Hottub]

If I was asked a year or 2 ago, I would say no.
Ask me now? I will sell you on Jesus, Buddah and Mohammed all in the same pitch. I'll also throw in a Sham Wow and a McGuire rookie card.
This recession has me by the balls.
I have to take care of a wife, kids, keep a roof over our heads, camping gear, Chrismas is coming up soon...
You get the picture. Until times get better, I'll sell you my mother for the right price.

When things do turn around, I shall try to get back to my core beliefs.
Service Before Self. Part of the Boy Scout Creed.

[TheMojoPin]

I will sell you on Jesus, Buddah and Mohammed all in the same pitch. I'll also throw in a Sham Wow and a McGuire rookie card.

What.

[GregoryJoseph]

Service Before Self.

That does not entail being a liar.

Rather, it speaks to serving a greater purpose than your own self and personal gain.

[TheGameHHH]

Most of the time, probably. It depends on the situation. if somebody was like, 'here's 40 million dollars but you have to pretend that you LOVE country music for the rest of your life.' id do it. but if it was, 'heres 40 million dollars but you have to kill your sister.' i wouldnt.

[razorboy]

Hell no. I'm a devout couldn't possibly care lesstian.

[TripleSkeet]

It would depend on the situation. Say this job in this christian organization was taking care of paperwork and updating their files...shit like that. As long as all I had to do was the work, smile and throw a "God be with you" at my co-workers here and their I could do it.

But if I didnt believe in God and my job was to convince others that believing in God was the way to live your life. Id have alot more trouble. Simply because Im a terrible liar. It comes very unnaturally for me.

That being said, when it comes to putting food on the table and clothes on my kids, hard or not Id do whatever was necessary to make that coin. Id sellout my beliefs in a heartbeat before Id make my kids suffer because of them.

[ope]

http://tutor2u.net/business/images/maslow_hierarchy.gif

[STC-Dub]

That assumes one has core beliefs.

[GregoryJoseph]

That being said, when it comes to putting food on the table and clothes on my kids, hard or not Id do whatever was necessary to make that coin. Id sellout my beliefs in a heartbeat before Id make my kids suffer because of them.

I fully understand the love and devotion a parent feels for their children, but I wonder what does them a greater disservice; forcing them to do without or teaching them it's OK to do whatever it takes to make a living, no matter the cost to your dignity.

Not judging you Skeet, especially since I'm not a parent myself. I just wonder if the kids wouldn't lose a little respect for you when they're older if they found out you "sold out."

[TheMojoPin]

Not judging you Skeet, especially since I'm not a parent myself. I just wonder if the kids wouldn't lose a little respect for you when they're older if they found out you "sold out."

"I didn't sell out, son...I bought in."

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[CofyCrakCocaine]

Depends on what belief was being challenged. Sometimes one has to be a realist as opposed to an idealist.

This quote really should be on somebody's tombstone.

[sailor]

I fully understand the love and devotion a parent feels for their children, but I wonder what does them a greater disservice; forcing them to do without or teaching them it's OK to do whatever it takes to make a living, no matter the cost to your dignity.

Not judging you Skeet, especially since I'm not a parent myself. I just wonder if the kids wouldn't lose a little respect for you when they're older if they found out you "sold out."

like the man said, it's just some lip-service to the faith. not like they're asking him to sacrifice a virgin or anything. no big deal. no hit to dignity.

[Dirtbag]

I would be if there was anyone interested in buying.

[TjM]

Yesterday on the Ron and Fez show a fan wrote in with a moral conundrum - he was feigning being a devout Christian to land (and keep) a job with a Christian organization. The fan described himself as a one-time Christian who was now an atheist, but said he's willing to keep up the facade in order to make money.

Dave and Fez said they agreed; making a living is far more important than your personal convictions.

Could you so easily go against your core beliefs in order to make a buck?

Fuck yes. I need cold hard cash baby

[TripleSkeet]

I fully understand the love and devotion a parent feels for their children, but I wonder what does them a greater disservice; forcing them to do without or teaching them it's OK to do whatever it takes to make a living, no matter the cost to your dignity.

Not judging you Skeet, especially since I'm not a parent myself. I just wonder if the kids wouldn't lose a little respect for you when they're older if they found out you "sold out."

Its cool. I understand. Like I said, it depends on the situation. I mean if my boss called me his bitch and made me shine his shoes and do other disrespectful shit, Id beat his ass and go look for another job. But there are plenty of things Id put up with in order to pay my bills.

At my one job I have pictures of each kid put up behind my bar so I can look and remember what the fuck Im doing there.

I would hope my kids would respect me more for the sacrifices I made in order to give them a better life, which is the real point in being a parent, rather then giving a fuck about me selling out my personal beliefs.

[TheMojoPin]

Its cool. I understand. Like I said, it depends on the situation. I mean if my boss called me his bitch and made me shine his shoes and do other disrespectful shit, Id beat his ass and go look for another job. But there are plenty of things Id put up with in order to pay my bills.

At my one job I have pictures of each kid put up behind my bar so I can look and remember what the fuck Im doing there.

I would hope my kids would respect me more for the sacrifices I made in order to give them a better life, which is the real point in being a parent, rather then giving a fuck about me selling out my personal beliefs.

Beating the shit out of a boss doesn't seem like the best way to ensure that you can provide for your family.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I use my religion to help me close a sale, love throwing my very Jewish Last Name to Jewish Clients

but will not mock it to get a sale

[TripleSkeet]

Beating the shit out of a boss doesn't seem like the best way to ensure that you can provide for your family.

My point was there are certain things Ill put up with and swallow my pride for in order to keep my job, but there are breaking points for me too.

[TheMojoPin]

My point was there are certain things Ill put up with and swallow my pride for in order to keep my job, but there are breaking points for me too.

Understandable, but if a boss called you a name and demanded that you shine his shoes wouldn't it make more sense to just quit as opposed to committing a criminal act?

[sailor]

Oh, literal mojo!

[TheMojoPin]

I just wanna know what boss wants his shoes shined like that.

[TjM]

I just wanna know what boss wants his shoes shined like that.

Anthony?

[TripleSkeet]

Understandable, but if a boss called you a name and demanded that you shine his shoes wouldn't it make more sense to just quit as opposed to committing a criminal act?

I guess its more a respect type of thing.

For example, in the restaurant business Ive worked with tons of managers as the turnover is high. Some would have a bad habit of publicly yelling at employees in front of customers.

Alot of the employees just took it. Me personally, when it would happen Id ask to speak to them privately in the office, then Id simply tell them if they ever talked to me in public like that again, Id be leaving in handcuffs, and theyd be leaving in an ambulance. They couldnt fire me because nobody would witness me telling them it, and after that we'd have a much better working relationship.

I wouldnt mind getting arrested for cracking my boss if he disrespected me like that. The worst Id get is probation anyway.

[TheMojoPin]

Not that it's good management or business sense, but a boss can yell at you wherever they want at work. It's the hallmark of a shitty boss, but leaping all the way to putting them in the hospital over it is kinda, well, crazy.

Look at it this way: you think a boss yelling at an employee in front of a customer is unacceptable. You really think an employee telling a boss that they will physically harm them is acceptable?

[Furtherman]

I don't think I could do it... I had an interview offer for Fox News once, and it was a job making more money. I turned it down because I couldn't surround myself in that environment. When I was in high school I worked at my church's rectory for the priests. I quit that job when I witnessed their hypocrisy and bullshit. I think being true to yourself does outweigh any monetary value....

...but there are exceptions. Right now part of my job is based on shady numbers and results from a small percentage of the population, yet it is seen as accurate results for our country as a whole. I wouldn't buy the results myself, but our entire advertising market does... so I go along with it, although I can't help myself from cracking jokes about it during internal meetings. Everyone agrees, but it's never joked about to clients. It's just the way it is.

[Kevin]

As long as you arent throwing your religon in my face and lecturing me about it.

Do whatver you want.

[TripleSkeet]

Look at it this way: you think a boss yelling at an employee in front of a customer is unacceptable. You really think an employee telling a boss that they will physically harm them is acceptable?

I look at it more as a man privately demanding to be treated with with respect by another man privately more as an employee threatening his boss. It has happened maybe 4 times in 10 years and every time the conversation ended with the manager apologizing and promising that any further correcting would be done in private and in a tone in which a man should speak to another man. Why leave a job I enjoy because of one manager (which in a place like this was 1 out of about 11) when a conversation like that could straighten everything out?

Sometimes the power over an employee goes to a guys head. Alot of managers will admit that. The problem comes when you start speaking to your employees like they are your servants instead of your employees.

[bobrobot]

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Distinguished guests
Brothers and sisters
Ladies and gentlemen
Friends and enemies

Malcolm X
No sell out

White, black, brown, red, yellow
It doesn't make any difference what color you are

The only thing power respects is power

They take one little word out of what you say
Ignore all the rest
And then begin to magnify it all over the world
To make you look like what you actually aren't

Much of what I say might sound like it's stiring up trouble
But it's the truth
With the truth
We don't care who likes it or not
As long as we know it's the truth
No, either this or that, this or that
If you're wrong, you're wrong
And if you're right, you're right

There is no skullduggery
No flim-flam
No compromise
No sell out
No controlled show

Malcolm X
No sell out

You can't deny that
You may not like my saying it
But you can't deny it
If you're afraid to tell the truth
Why you don't even deserve freedom

You can't say you're not going to have an explosion
And you leave the condition
And as long as those ingredients, explosive ingredients, remain
Then you're going to have the potential for explosion on your hands

Malcolm X
No sell out

I'm not the kind of person who'd come here to say what you like

I've got a plate in front of me
But nothing is on it
Because all of us are sitting at the same table
Are all of us diners?
I'm not a diner until you let me dine
Then I become a diner

I was in my house last night that was bombed in Harlem
It isn't something that made me lose confidence in what I'm doing

Brothers, sisters, friends
And I see a few enemies...

[TheMojoPin]

I look at it more as a man privately demanding to be treated with with respect by another man privately more as an employee threatening his boss. It has happened maybe 4 times in 10 years and every time the conversation ended with the manager apologizing and promising that any further correcting would be done in private and in a tone in which a man should speak to another man. Why leave a job I enjoy because of one manager (which in a place like this was 1 out of about 11) when a conversation like that could straighten everything out?

Seems like you could have the same conversation sans the threats of violence.

[TripleSkeet]

Seems like you could have the same conversation sans the threats of violence.

Like I said, its happened a few times, Ive found if you ask like a child they treat you like one. And when you tell them youd appreciate it if it doesnt happen again, they agree and just ignore it and it happens again without concern. Maybe because when weve gone in its already been confrontational and Ive always been really angry, but at that point I just want to let the guy know where I stand so theres no confusion as to what could happen.

When I was barbacking I had a bartender scream at me in front of people and just told him straight out if it happened one more time I was going to drown him in his own glass washing sink.

[TheMojoPin]

Like I said, its happened a few times, Ive found if you ask like a child they treat you like one. And when you tell them youd appreciate it if it doesnt happen again, they agree and just ignore it and it happens again without concern. Maybe because when weve gone in its already been confrontational and Ive always been really angry, but at that point I just want to let the guy know where I stand so theres no confusion as to what could happen.

When I was barbacking I had a bartender scream at me in front of people and just told him straight out if it happened one more time I was going to drown him in his own glass washing sink.

How does any of that garner any respect? That just instills a relationship based on fear, which is essentially what the boss was doing by yelling at people in front of customers. There's no respect involved from anyone. Plus I don't see how talking to someone without the threat of violence automatically means you're "asking like a child."

It's certainly very possible that you've had a run of shitty bosses where there was no option...or maybe it's a pattern on your end that you keep threatening to attack your bosses.

[TripleSkeet]

How does any of that garner any respect? That just instills a relationship based on fear, which is essentially what the boss was doing by yelling at people in front of customers. There's no respect involved from anyone. Plus I don't see how talking to someone without the threat of violence automatically means you're "asking like a child."

It's certainly very possible that you've had a run of shitty bosses where there was no option...or maybe it's a pattern on your end that you keep threatening to attack your bosses.


I didnt care if these people respected me personally. All I asked...or rather demanded, was that in public they treated me with the same courtesy and respect I showed them. I didnt think it was asking much.

I cant explain it right because restaurant management is just so different from other places. But I constantly saw guys that liked to abuse their power to intimidate, embarrass, and emasculate workers beneath them just for fun and I just wasnt having it.

Ive seen these guys do some really fucked up shit to people with no concern or care to how it affected them, I refused to be one of those people. Warnings of violence for that type of behavior may not be the best way to go about it, but it worked for me for 15 years.

As far as my run of bosses, I worked at a restaurant that staffed about 11-15 managers at once. And theyd go through at least 7-10 a year. So there was a constant influx of them.

[Bob Impact]

Luckily for me a prime goal of my morality is productivity. Win/Win as far as I'm concerned.

[boosterp]

The way I was raised, and through my Army career you do not sacrifice morality for the sake of gain. My research career was more in the grey area on this, but I always stood by my morals and it did not win me any friends in the end, but I still can look myself in the mirror and smile.

[KnoxHarrington]

About the closest I've ever come is taking drug tests for jobs even though I find them arbitrary, inaccurate, unfair, and a complete invasion of our rights.

But I haven't done any illegal drugs in a very long time, and I needed a job, so...

[GregoryJoseph]

I wonder how many people fully realize that each decision they make, each course of action they take, has a profound influence not only on themselves but on the lives of those around them...

[TripleSkeet]

I wonder how many people fully realize that each decision they make, each course of action they take, has a profound influence not only on themselves but on the lives of those around them...

I think the better question would be how many actually care?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I wonder how many people fully realize that each decision they make, each course of action they take, has a profound influence not only on themselves but on the lives of those around them...

This is about the Christmas party, isn't it?