2009 College Football thread

[hammersavage]

CJ Spiller
Toby Gerhart
Colt McCoy


Those are my 3 finalists.

[razorboy]

CJ Spiller
Toby Gerhart
Colt McCoy


Those are my 3 finalists.

For the Heisman or who you are going home with tonight?

[ozzie]

Ingram shouldn't even be invited to New York after his performance the Iron Bowl. Almost every other team that played Auburn this year was successful running the ball. He should have had a field day.

I doubt he'll be healthy enough to make up for it against Florida.

He's not the best RB in the conference... and may not even be the best on his own team. (Trent Richardson)

Gerhart's numbers crush Ingram's. Yeah, yeah, yeah... against Pac-10 teams, but this hasn't been the strongest defensive year for the SEC either.

Spiller blew his chances with his outing against the Gamecocks. Even good numbers against GaTech won't save him.

And screw McCoy and Teblow. Nice seasons on very good teams in a down year for both conferences. Nothing spectacular.

#1 - Dan LeFevour for Heisman!
#2 - Toby Gerhart
#3a - Kellen Moore
#3b - Case Keenum

[hammersavage]

Bowden to retire tomorrow (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4701625)

[Fezticle98]

Bowden to retire tomorrow (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4701625)

In the end, this is the best thing for the program and university. It wasn't handled well, but it is time to begin moving things forward again. What a coach. What a run.

[El Mudo]

In the end, this is the best thing for the program and university. It wasn't handled well, but it is time to begin moving things forward again. What a coach. What a run.

I think my favorite stat was that from 92-02, FSU was something like 70-2 against the rest of the ACC. It was a huge thing when Virginia beat them for the first time ever in-conference in 95

[SP1!]

How stupid is Maryland? (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/terps/bal-friedgen-stays,0,4646431.story)

[El Mudo]

How stupid is Maryland? (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/terps/bal-friedgen-stays,0,4646431.story)


Its all about economics. They can't afford to pay him the 4 million dollar buyout, plus the money they would probably have to buy out Franklin with, not to mention what they would have to pay the new coach they hire.

Can't blame them for trying to avoid a Colorado-type situation.

[KnoxHarrington]

In the end, this is the best thing for the program and university. It wasn't handled well, but it is time to begin moving things forward again. What a coach. What a run.

I wonder how long Jimbo Fisher can last there. After all, he was the one who was supposed to be running things while Uncle Bobby just sort of stood there with his clipboard smiling. If the team doesn't improve quickly, I can't imagine that the administration will want him around for long.

[SP1!]

I wonder how long Jimbo Fisher can last there. After all, he was the one who was supposed to be running things while Uncle Bobby just sort of stood there with his clipboard smiling. If the team doesn't improve quickly, I can't imagine that the administration will want him around for long.

Well I know jimbo will be a little more run blocking oriented than bowden let him be while he was OC, I guess that FSU will find out in the coming months

[toolshed]

I wonder how long Jimbo Fisher can last there. After all, he was the one who was supposed to be running things while Uncle Bobby just sort of stood there with his clipboard smiling. If the team doesn't improve quickly, I can't imagine that the administration will want him around for long.

What Fisher has had control over has been very successful. The offense was anemic when Jeff Bowden left, and Fisher has developed them into probably the best O in the ACC, and up there relative to the rest of the country (albeit, before Ponder got hurt). The D is what held FSU back this year (Mickey Andrews checked out years ago, and Chuck Amato is the worst LB coach in NCAA football). If Jimbo picks a badass DC and a decent RB coach, I think he will be very successful there.

[SP1!]

Geez its about damn time (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4707194)

Now maybe we wont give up 40+ points every year to our biggest rivals, thank god hes gone

[JimBeam]

I was listening to one of the sports shows this morning and while discussing Tebow they mentioned Tommy Frazier and the Nebraska teams.

I started thinking that Frazier didn't get as much love as Tebow does and thought that their stats might be similar but in actuality they're not even really close.

Frazier passed for 3,521 yards with 43 TDs and 11 INTs while rushing for 1,955 yards and 36 TDs.

Tebow passed for 8,557 yards with 84 TDs and 15 INTs while rushing for 2,833 yards and 56 TDs.

If you give Tebow credit for some of the 2006 title both could lead their team in 3 national championship games.

[razorboy]

Let's go Beavers.

[Snoogans]

I was listening to one of the sports shows this morning and while discussing Tebow they mentioned Tommy Frazier and the Nebraska teams.

I started thinking that Frazier didn't get as much love as Tebow does and thought that their stats might be similar but in actuality they're not even really close.

Frazier passed for 3,521 yards with 43 TDs and 11 INTs while rushing for 1,955 yards and 36 TDs.

Tebow passed for 8,557 yards with 84 TDs and 15 INTs while rushing for 2,833 yards and 56 TDs.

If you give Tebow credit for some of the 2006 title both could lead their team in 3 national championship games.

tommy frazier also missed alot of time with blood clots in his legs. Thats why his numbers werent what you'd expect

[Snoogans]

sportscenter just said Mark mangino was fired

[underdog]

sportscenter just said Mark mangino was fired

Obie is inconsolable.

http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/12/manginoorange.jpg

[JimBeam]

sportscenter just said Mark mangino was fired

Apparently they're trying to say it was a mutual decision.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4711389

[joeyballsack]

Pretty nasty leg break in the Civil War.

I always get queasy seeing stuff like that.

[joeyballsack]

Erin Andrews just showed a helmet that she said was broken during the Oregon-Oregon State game.

It had no face mask, which I can see them switching out, but it also had no O on the sides of it. Would they go through the trouble of stripping that off or was she just working with a prop for a bullshit report ?

[SP1!]

I was listening to one of the sports shows this morning and while discussing Tebow they mentioned Tommy Frazier and the Nebraska teams.

I started thinking that Frazier didn't get as much love as Tebow does and thought that their stats might be similar but in actuality they're not even really close.

Frazier passed for 3,521 yards with 43 TDs and 11 INTs while rushing for 1,955 yards and 36 TDs.

Tebow passed for 8,557 yards with 84 TDs and 15 INTs while rushing for 2,833 yards and 56 TDs.

If you give Tebow credit for some of the 2006 title both could lead their team in 3 national championship games.

tommy frazier also missed alot of time with blood clots in his legs. Thats why his numbers werent what you'd expect
Yeah I was about to say that, frazier missed a lot of time and they had no receivers for him to throw to then, teebow took a hit this year when most of his best receivers left, still he wont amount to much in the NFL unless he moves to TE.

sportscenter just said Mark mangino was fired
I still cant believe that fat fuck was ever a coach, I would never have played for someone as fat as him, thats just disgusting.

Erin Andrews just showed a helmet that she said was broken during the Oregon-Oregon State game.

It had no face mask, which I can see them switching out, but it also had no O on the sides of it. Would they go through the trouble of stripping that off or was she just working with a prop for a bullshit report ?
Again, outside of her TnA why the fuck is she even on the field? They should just go to her every once in a while and have a shot of her in a different bikini to show it off, nobody gives a shit what she says, she knows nothing about the game.

[JimBeam]

... teebow took a hit this year when most of his best receivers left, still he wont amount to much in the NFL unless he moves to TE.

Again w/ this ?

This thread is to discuss college football not the chances of him making it in the NFL.

How much time did Frazier spend in the NFL ?

Afterall you were commenting on the compariosn of the 2 players no ?

Frazier could've had Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss and that wouldn't have given him another 5,000 yards passing.

Frazier was a 4 year starter and only missed 7 games and I don't think Tebow started any games his freshman year so I think the games played is a wash.

The point could be made that Frazier's offense was power run and he just had to hand it off to Lawrence Phillips and Ahman Green who I just read set an NCAA record for averaging 7.0 yards per rushing attempt in 1995.

Here's a stat of Frazier's that nobody will probably ever break :

Frazier is the only player ever to win MVP of three national championship games.

[Snoogans]

Again w/ this ?

This thread is to discuss college football not the chances of him making it in the NFL.

How much time did Frazier spend in the NFL ?


Frazier was a 4 year starter and only missed 7 games and I don't think Tebow started any games his freshman year so I think the games played is a wash.

The point could be made that Frazier's offense was power run and he just had to hand it off to Lawrence Phillips and Ahman Green who I just read set an NCAA record for averaging 7.0 yards per rushing attempt in 1995.

Here's a stat of Frazier's that nobody will probably ever break :

frazier, even when playing, had alot of problems with his legs. And he woulda been in the NFL, except for he had to stop playin football cause the clots got worse and he had to take blood thinners and had alot of problems. Trust me, Tommy Frazier was better than Tebow.

[El Mudo]

frazier, even when playing, had alot of problems with his legs. And he woulda been in the NFL, except for he had to stop playin football cause the clots got worse and he had to take blood thinners and had alot of problems. Trust me, Tommy Frazier was better than Tebow.

QFT.

That 95 Nebraska team is still the greatest college football team i've ever seen.

The team set Division 1-A records by averaging 7.0 yards per rushing attempt and also by allowing zero quarterback sacks on the season. Noted for its strong special teams play, the team also connected on 13 of 16 field goal attempts, and it also tied an NCAA record by allowing only five punt returns (for a total of 12 yards) all season. The 1995 Huskers also averaged a victory margin of more than 38 points, the largest of any Division 1-A team since World War II, despite regularly resting their starters in the second halves of games. Averaging more than 53 points per game (including the bowl win), the team averaged 29.8 points per first half - a higher number than the per-game scoring average of many national champions, even including such modern champions as the 2006 Florida Gators, the 2002 Ohio State Buckeyes, and the 1992 Alabama Crimson Tide.

On January 2, 1996, Nebraska defeated Florida 62-24, marking the largest margin of victory and highest score in a national championship game in history. Included among several NCAA bowl records the Huskers set were a team rushing total of 524 yards (out of a total offensive output of 629 yards). I-back Lawrence Phillips carried 25 times for 165 yards and two touchdowns, and he also caught a 16-yard touchdown pass. Quarterback Tommie Frazier finished the game with 199 yards on 16 carries. The game also included one of the most famous plays in Nebraska history: a 75-yard touchdown run in the third quarter by Frazier in which he broke an estimated eight tackles. Florida had entered the contest by having won every game of its regular season by no fewer than 11 points, and the Gator offense had averaged more than 44 points per game, 360 passing yards per game, and 534 yards of total offense per game. The Nebraska defense limited the Gators to 269 yards of total offense and -28 rushing yards while registering a safety, seven quarterback sacks, and three interceptions, including one returned 42 yards for a touchdown by Michael Booker. The Huskers' 29 points in the second quarter set a Fiesta bowl record.

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[JimBeam]

Trust me, Tommy Frazier was better than Tebow.

Agree to disagree.

That game against Florida was awful.

Maybe Spurrier's biggest egg ever when you consider what was on the line.

That Nebraska squad for a few years or so was one of the few teams to ever dominate SEC teams.

After throttling UF in that bowl game they beat up a Tennessee team lead by Peyton Manning 42-17 a few years later.

[epo]

frazier, even when playing, had alot of problems with his legs. And he woulda been in the NFL, except for he had to stop playin football cause the clots got worse and he had to take blood thinners and had alot of problems. Trust me, Tommy Frazier was better than Tebow.

Frazier wasn't just better than Tebow, he was a lot better than Tebow.

[El Mudo]

Agree to disagree.

That game against Florida was awful.

Maybe Spurrier's biggest egg ever when you consider what was on the line.

That Nebraska squad for a few years or so was one of the few teams to ever dominate SEC teams.

After throttling UF in that bowl game they beat up a Tennessee team lead by Peyton Manning 42-17 a few years later.

And in 94 they beat Miami for the National Title when beating Miami still meant something.

Those teams were so loaded that their BACKUP QB, Brook Berringer, probably could have started for most teams in the nation.

[disneyspy]

tebow has gay guy eyes and a lisp to go with them

[razorboy]

tebow has gay guy eyes and a lisp to go with them

Simmer down DS. He's too young for you.

[JimBeam]

Frazier wasn't just better than Tebow, he was a lot better than Tebow.

Clearly.

Based on his Heisman and comparable stats.

[yojimbo7248]

Oregon in the Rose Bowl. yes! go Ducks!!!

[JimBeam]

And Ron Powlus was the best QB ever.

At least according to Beano Cook.

[El Mudo]

And Ron Powlus was the best QB ever.

At least according to Beano Cook.


I thought Beano just said Powlus would win two Heismans?

I had no idea he was ND's current QB's coach.

[JimBeam]

I'm sure he'll soon be former QB coach.

I can't see the new coach, whoever he is, keeping anybody from the current staff even if a lot of the blame falls on the shoulders of Weis and the defensive coaches.

By the way any final number on Weis' buyout ?

[Snoogans]

I'm sure he'll soon be former QB coach.

I can't see the new coach, whoever he is, keeping anybody from the current staff even if a lot of the blame falls on the shoulders of Weis and the defensive coaches.

By the way any final number on Weis' buyout ?

18 mill

[JimBeam]

That should buy his lunch for the next 2 years.

Fat f-ck.

Maybe ND should hire Mangino.

I'm sure he can literally fit into the same coaching pants as Weis.

[SP1!]

Again w/ this ?

This thread is to discuss college football not the chances of him making it in the NFL.

How much time did Frazier spend in the NFL ?

Afterall you were commenting on the compariosn of the 2 players no ?

Frazier could've had Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss and that wouldn't have given him another 5,000 yards passing.

Frazier was a 4 year starter and only missed 7 games and I don't think Tebow started any games his freshman year so I think the games played is a wash.

The point could be made that Frazier's offense was power run and he just had to hand it off to Lawrence Phillips and Ahman Green who I just read set an NCAA record for averaging 7.0 yards per rushing attempt in 1995.

Here's a stat of Frazier's that nobody will probably ever break :

You have that backwards, teebow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Tebow#College_statistics)played in 52 games and frazier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommie_Frazier#Career_Statistics)played in 36 games.

Again, teebow is just a FB that gets to play QB, he has average arm strength and shit for accuracy, which is even more important than arm strength.

But I agree that frazier wasnt a good passer, he was about the same as teebow, a FB they allowed to play QB, frazier is slow as hell but I loved it when they beat up florida.

[SP1!]

tebow has gay guy eyes and a lisp to go with them

Yeah I laugh every time I hear him in an interview, its easy to understand why hes not with any girls, hes with his room mate every night...

[razorboy]

If Mike London is indeed the next coach at UVA, as all signs point to, I think it's a damn good hire.

[JimBeam]

You have that backwards, teebow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Tebow#College_statistics)played in 52 games and frazier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommie_Frazier#Career_Statistics)played in 36 games.

Again, teebow is just a FB that gets to play QB, he has average arm strength and shit for accuracy, which is even more important than arm strength.

But I agree that frazier wasnt a good passer, he was about the same as teebow, a FB they allowed to play QB, frazier is slow as hell but I loved it when they beat up florida.

Actually Tebow NEVER started a game his freshman year while Frazier was a 4 year starter w/ the exception of the 7 games he missed due to the leg issues.

But I agree that if you count Tebow's sophmore through senior years he's played more total games than Frazier.

And don't blindly trust those Wikipedia numbers because when I was looking the stuff up yesterday the career passing yards for Tebow were off. The individual years were right, I'd guess, but the subtotal was wrong. They had 8,457 when the totals for the 4 years they listed equalled 8,557.

... he has average arm strength and shit for accuracy ...

What are you talking about ?

Are you just saying stuff hoping it's true ?

He's got a career Passing% of 66 and a QB rating of 180.9 with 84 TDS to only 15 INTS.

That's a better career passer rating than Colt McCoy, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler and Matt Ryan.

Sure he probably won't be anything like those guys at the next level but don't say ridiculous things w/o knowing the facts.

They have stats to measure a QBs accuracy and it's slightly more scientific than your opinion.

[razorboy]

What are you talking about ?

Are you just saying stuff hoping it's true ?

He's got a career Passing% of 66 and a QB rating of 180.9 with 84 TDS to only 15 INTS.

That's a better career passer rating than Colt McCoy, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler and Matt Ryan.

Sure he probably won't be anything like those guys at the next level but don't say ridiculous things w/o knowing the facts.

They have stats to measure a QBs accuracy and it's slightly more scientific than your opinion.

Do you watch the kid play? The kid has shown zero ability to make anything beyond his primary reads, has below average arm strength, D- grade footwork and a ridiculous Satchel Paige throw from your shoelaces and set your watch to the motion windup. Compound all of that to the fact that he was well regarded (and tested) as a borderline waterhead coming out of high school and plays in the ultimate gimmick offense. He's a borderline FB/HB/TE in the NFL AT BEST.

[SP1!]

Actually Tebow NEVER started a game his freshman year while Frazier was a 4 year starter w/ the exception of the 7 games he missed due to the leg issues.

But I agree that if you count Tebow's sophmore through senior years he's played more total games than Frazier.

And don't blindly trust those Wikipedia numbers because when I was looking the stuff up yesterday the career passing yards for Tebow were off. The individual years were right, I'd guess, but the subtotal was wrong. They had 8,457 when the totals for the 4 years they listed equalled 8,557.



What are you talking about ?

Are you just saying stuff hoping it's true ?

He's got a career Passing% of 66 and a QB rating of 180.9 with 84 TDS to only 15 INTS.

That's a better career passer rating than Colt McCoy, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler and Matt Ryan.

Sure he probably won't be anything like those guys at the next level but don't say ridiculous things w/o knowing the facts.

They have stats to measure a QBs accuracy and it's slightly more scientific than your opinion.
Oh so now you are moving the sticks, teebow played in more games, fact, even if he didnt start he rushed for almost 500 yards his first year there and was the 2nd leading rusher, the only reason he didnt start was because leak was there.

Its easy to have those stats for teebow but you really refuse to see the truth.

Here are some numbers: 925, 986, 1175, 1558, 1345

Those are attempts I will let you guess which one is teebow, I will give you a hint, one of those is only 3 years.

Teebow is a FB that is allowed to play QB, he has average arm strength and shitty accuracy, there is a reason why hes not even listed on most teams boards for QB and mel kiper has an injured sam bradford ahead of him.

[razorboy]

Pitt just keeps shooting themselves in the foot.

[Snoogans]

Rutgers is fuckin up. They have a chance to be right in the game and keep making dumb mistakes.

[razorboy]

Tony Pike looks like shit today.

[Snoogans]

Tony Pike looks like shit today.

im flippin some to that game, esp with how bad Tom Savage is lookin

[Snoogans]

i cant believe pitt is puttin it on Cincy so bad right now

[razorboy]

i cant believe pitt is puttin it on Cincy so bad right now

Cincy's D has been shit all year, and their offense just isn't well suited to snowy sloppy football. Another reason I tend to question the idea of Kelly going to ND.

[Snoogans]

Cincy's D has been shit all year, and their offense just isn't well suited to snowy sloppy football. Another reason I tend to question the idea of Kelly going to ND.

He did fine in Central Michigan

[Snoogans]

pitt is tryin to give this game back

[Snoogans]

what a terrible fuckin pass by Pike

[Snoogans]

this is fuckin terrible

[razorboy]

Holy fucking shit, Cincy.

[Snoogans]

Holy fucking shit, Cincy.

yea great game

the rutgers game ended up being pretty good too. But man that has to hurt pitt, that fumbled hold

[disneyspy]

this ill/fresno state game is crazy,fesno st just scored with 2 seconds left 52-51 going into OT depending on the EP

[disneyspy]

HOLY SHIT FESNO ST TO they might go for 2!!

[disneyspy]

they are going for it! holy shit!

[disneyspy]

you wont fucking believe it,qb is getting sacked,throws it up,tipped deflected,3oo pound lineman catches runs it in,conversion good,unfuckinbelievable!

[disneyspy]

review

[disneyspy]

its good! what a fuckin game,wow

[disneyspy]

oh no f'n way,the squib kick went out at 40,illinois with a chance

[disneyspy]

INT to end the game,wow

[razorboy]

My buddy gave me a pair of tickets to the ACC Championship Game, but I don't much feel like going and spending 150 bucks on parking and beer.

[razorboy]

If Florida loses I'll never stop laughing.

[epo]

Tebow's eye black's are designed with "John 16:33".

As if I needed more reason to dislike him.

[GregoryJoseph]

John 16:33 (King James Version)

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I don't see why that's any reason to hate the young man...

[epo]

I don't see why that's any reason to hate the young man...

Or I could spend my time hating you.

[underdog]

I don't see why that's any reason to hate the young man...

Why did they stop translating at Olde English?

[razorboy]

Why did they stop translating at Olde English?

They don't want to get Carlos Dunlap all riled up.

[JimBeam]

Do you watch the kid play? The kid has shown zero ability to make anything beyond his primary reads, has below average arm strength, D- grade footwork and a ridiculous Satchel Paige throw from your shoelaces and set your watch to the motion windup. Compound all of that to the fact that he was well regarded (and tested) as a borderline waterhead coming out of high school and plays in the ultimate gimmick offense. He's a borderline FB/HB/TE in the NFL AT BEST.

I've watched him play plenty of times. Have you ?

Have you seen any of today's game ?

I've seen him check down to 3rd and 4th receivers on several occasions.

2 of those for huge gains.

UF could be winning this game if they weren't dropping passes.

And let me me clear I do not care if the kid plays a single down in the NFL.

I've been watching him in college, as an amateur, and I enjoy the games I've seen.

He brings an extra dimension that you don't see from many players.

His record, in the best conference in football, speaks for itself.

[JimBeam]

Oh so now you are moving the sticks, teebow played in more games, fact, even if he didnt start he rushed for almost 500 yards his first year there and was the 2nd leading rusher, the only reason he didnt start was because leak was there.

Its easy to have those stats for teebow but you really refuse to see the truth.

Here are some numbers: 925, 986, 1175, 1558, 1345

Those are attempts I will let you guess which one is teebow, I will give you a hint, one of those is only 3 years.

Teebow is a FB that is allowed to play QB, he has average arm strength and shitty accuracy, there is a reason why hes not even listed on most teams boards for QB and mel kiper has an injured sam bradford ahead of him.

You wanna talk about moving the chains ?

How about your assertion that he stayed in college longer than some payers to beat their records.

You were clearly referring to Kevin Faulk, because that was whose record he had recently beaten at the time of your post, but when I pointed out to you that Faulk playd 4 years just as Tebow has there wasn't a pee from you.

Today's game would be Tebow's 40th start if I do the math correctly.

That gives him 1 more start than Frazier who I believe went 33-6 in his career.

You can't compare Tebow's mop up duty games as a freshman to entire games started by Frazier.

Even if you drop Tebow's entire freshman year his numbers are still better with to this point only 1 more game played.

So once again if you take into account the 7 games missed by Frazier and the non-starts by Tebow you have virtually identical games played.

Here are some numbers: 925, 986, 1175, 1558, 1345

Let me guess Pass Attempts by the players I listed ?

... and shitty accuracy ...

Again accuracy is measured, as least as far as a stat, by by using a mathematical formula and not your opinion.

I'm thinking a better judge of a passer's accuracy is passes completed divided by those thrown rather than " Whether SP likes the player or not ".

Listen you can hate the guy for the media attention he gets, for his silly eye things or even his religion but don't be ridiculous and try and discount things that don't take human emotion into play.

[JimBeam]

Now as far as this game goes there are a few things that jump out at me.

UF's defense is getting worked.

They are missing tackles and just hurting themselves with bad penalties.

McElroy is playing fantastically and getting all day an that make s huge difference.

UF wanted to get pressure on him and cause him to make mistakes hoping to get shorter fields but that hasn't been the case yet.

The games not over but UF has got to start making plays.

If not they are gonna have to hope that Tebow can in fact will them to victory.

Julio Jones has dropped a few passes today.

[razorboy]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh USC loses. Can this day get any better?

[JimBeam]

I'm fairly certain that the Cincinnati players are gonna be sitting around the TV tonight hoping for a Nebraska win.

I think a UF win helps their case more than an Alabama win.

I'm still not sure which one of the teams, between Cincinnati and TCU, would better deserve a shot at a championship game providing Texas loses.

[epo]

Florida needs to put Tommie Frazier in to get back in this game.

[JimBeam]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh USC loses. Can this day get any better?

I think they said that drops USC to 6th in the PAC-10.

Would they even get a bowl game ?

I'm sure they are eligible and that a bowl would want them over some other teams but can they take a 6th place team ahead of say a 4th or 5th ?

[epo]

Why am I laughing at this baby for crying?

[razorboy]

Jesus Timbow, act like you aren't a little girl.

[ozzie]

Dammit.

I hate both of these teams, but I have to live with, and work with Bama fans.

I'll never hear the end of this.

Hey Gaytors...

Hey Gaytors...

Bama just beat the hell out of you!

Rammer Jammer Yellowhammer, give 'em hell alabammer!

yay. shit.

[keithy_19]

Tebow's eye black's are designed with "John 16:33".

As if I needed more reason to dislike him.

What's with you disliking good people?

[Snoogans]

What's with you disliking good people?

tim tebow is not a good person. Him saying he is a virgin means he is either a lying scumbag or the dumbest asshole on the planet. either way, fuck him

[keithy_19]

tim tebow is not a good person. Him saying he is a virgin means he is either a lying scumbag or the dumbest asshole on the planet. either way, fuck him

Let's say he is a virgin, why does it matter? Just because he isn't having sex doesn't mean he's an asshole. He just has a belief system that doesn't allow it.

[KnoxHarrington]

I don't think there's a bigger Huskers fan in the state of Nebraska than I am right now.

If Nebraska wins this game, the BCS asplode.

[Snoogans]

Let's say he is a virgin, why does it matter? Just because he isn't having sex doesn't mean he's an asshole. He just has a belief system that doesn't allow it.

yea it does. if you are D 1 and goin to the NFL and that famous, and you dont have sex, something is wrong with you.

Just because its religion doesnt mean its right. I really hate that people jsut think when its cause he is christian. If you are that hardcore about your religion that you dont do what nature intended when you have nothing but chances too, you are indeed fucked up

[keithy_19]

yea it does. if you are D 1 and goin to the NFL and that famous, and you dont have sex, something is wrong with you.

Just because its religion doesnt mean its right. I really hate that people jsut think when its cause he is christian. If you are that hardcore about your religion that you dont do what nature intended when you have nothing but chances too, you are indeed fucked up

Maybe he just has incredible restraint. I think that if a person is able to abstain from worldly pleasure that it shows determination. I don't think it makes him dumb, it makes him disciplined.

[razorboy]

Maybe he just has a secret.

[keithy_19]

Maybe he just has a secret.

Maybe. I tend to think that if he has a secret it's that he has nothing down there at all. He's like a Ken doll.

[KnoxHarrington]

"Whoever can get the most in her can is the winner."

And a girl I'd love to meet.

[epo]

Maybe he just has incredible restraint. I think that if a person is able to abstain from worldly pleasure that it shows determination. I don't think it makes him dumb, it makes him disciplined.

I tend to think he's dumb and disciplined.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/forrest_gump_bama.jpg

[Snoogans]

I tend to think he's dumb and disciplined.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/forrest_gump_bama.jpg

If he played in the SEC, Forrest Gump woulda been a Rhodes Scholar

[KnoxHarrington]

Fuck, if Nebraska had any offense at all, they'd be winning easily, because their defense is kicking Texas' ass all over Jerry Jones' white trash Taj Mahal.

[KnoxHarrington]

This Nebraska offense is pure garbage. An incredible punt return gets them first and goal, and the two plays since have been two runs up the middle that barely made it back to the line of scrimmage.

[razorboy]

If he played in the SEC, Forrest Gump woulda been a Rhodes Scholar

Nah. In the SEC they call them academic exceptions.

[KnoxHarrington]

Texas about to attempt a 46 yard FG with 1 second left to win.

[SP1!]

You wanna talk about moving the chains ?

How about your assertion that he stayed in college longer than some payers to beat their records.

You were clearly referring to Kevin Faulk, because that was whose record he had recently beaten at the time of your post, but when I pointed out to you that Faulk playd 4 years just as Tebow has there wasn't a pee from you.
No that wasnt who I was referring to since nobody even knows what record kevin faulk has, I was referring to herschel and a lot of florida fans wanted him to break all of his records. He still didnt break most of them the media just made a big deal of the ones he did break, why would anyone bring up kevin faulk, he was barely a blip on the screen.

Today's game would be Tebow's 40th start if I do the math correctly.

That gives him 1 more start than Frazier who I believe went 33-6 in his career.

You can't compare Tebow's mop up duty games as a freshman to entire games started by Frazier.

Even if you drop Tebow's entire freshman year his numbers are still better with to this point only 1 more game played.

So once again if you take into account the 7 games missed by Frazier and the non-starts by Tebow you have virtually identical games played.
Fraizer was 33-3 and teebow played in 52 total games, it dwarfs fraiziers

Let me guess Pass Attempts by the players I listed ?
Yes and teeblows was the lowest, its easy to have those numbers when the most you throw are screen passes and short crossing routes that turn into huge gains, he is a terrible QB.

Again accuracy is measured, as least as far as a stat, by by using a mathematical formula and not your opinion.

I'm thinking a better judge of a passer's accuracy is passes completed divided by those thrown rather than " Whether SP likes the player or not ".

Listen you can hate the guy for the media attention he gets, for his silly eye things or even his religion but don't be ridiculous and try and discount things that don't take human emotion into play.
Again, its easy to complete passes when most of his throws are 10 yards and fewer, they only team that may take him high is jacksonville and it will be the biggest mistake they make. He is not Pro caliber QB and no other team has him higher than 5th at that position, now if he wants to play another position then he would be taken in the first 10 picks but hes made it clear that he only wants to be a QB.

And in case you forget, both predictions I made came through today, Rutgers lost another conference game(sorry snoogans) and florida got stomped.

[KingGeno]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x217/AutomatorPrime/tebowept.jpg

[epo]

Weis takes shot at Carroll (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/news/story?id=4718914)

Former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis reportedly took a shot at USC's Pete Carroll in an online interview published Saturday, and Carroll isn't happy about it.

Weis, fired at Notre Dame last week, was asked by IrishIllustrated.com, a site devoted to covering Notre Dame sports, if he is "frustrated" by how he's portrayed as opposed to Carroll.

According to the interview transcript from IrishIllustrated.com senior editor Tim Prister, Weis responded: "Let me ask you this question: You guys know about things that go on in different places. Was I living with a grad student in Malibu, or was I living with my wife in my house? You could bet that if I were living with a grad student here in South Bend, it would be national news.

"He's doing it in Malibu and it's not national news. What's the difference? I don't understand. Why is it OK for one guy to do things like that, but for me, I'm scrutinized when I swear. I'm sorry for swearing; absolve my sins."

Stay classy Charlie.

[JimBeam]

tim tebow is not a good person. Him saying he is a virgin means he is either a lying scumbag or the dumbest asshole on the planet. either way, fuck him

My wife saw him on TV and said " Wow he's a good looking guy. " and then I explained to her that he was supposedly a virgin.

She called BS but I said that's what they say.

She texted her cousin who goes to Alabama and I told her to ask what he though of Tebow crying and he said it " made his day. "

LOL

I told her that was the reply I expected.

[JimBeam]

... since nobody even knows what record kevin faulk has, ..

... why would anyone bring up kevin faulk, he was barely a blip on the screen.

Maybe people who actually follow the game and don't pretend to be experts.

You mean to tell me you personally knew a record from almost 30 years ago, Walker's, but didn't know that Faulk had the most all purpose TDs in SEC history that he set within the last 12 years ?

It's not even like I remembered that but since I watched games and paid attention to them I heard them mention in numerous times during the season.

Oh and you said, to paraphrase, that " he stayed to beat players records " which would imply more than one player.

Fraizer was 33-3 and teebow played in 52 total games, it dwarfs fraiziers

What do you not grasp about " starts " ?

Compare their starts and Tebow's numbers are still better.

Frazier was a 4 year starter so w/ the exception of the 7 games he missed I'm not sure why he wouldnt have played/started in 41 games ( 12 games a year for 4 years ).

Dude now you wanna complain about his completions ?

His job is to move the ball, not throw 30 yard passes to impress you.

And a little thing about attempts. You have as much of a chance to complete and pass as you do to not complete it, so ..... if you throw more times you have a chance to increase your completion percentage and not always hurt it.

By the way the screenpass and short passes worked fairly well for Alabama yesterday but I guess they don't impress you.

Maybe if UGA would try them now and again they wouldn't be looking up at UF all the time.

I like how you failed to mention QB rating whicg takes into account more than just completions.

But again you live in your own world and laugh in the face of stats and numbers that colleges and the NFL use to rate players.

And I'll say agin, even if the kid never plays another down of football after the bowl game, he was still one of the better players we've seen in a long time.

As far as your predictions go what did you pick in the last 4 UGA/UF games ?

[SP1!]

Maybe people who actually follow the game and don't pretend to be experts.

You mean to tell me you personally knew a record from almost 30 years ago, Walker's, but didn't know that Faulk had the most all purpose TDs in SEC history that he set within the last 12 years ?

It's not even like I remembered that but since I watched games and paid attention to them I heard them mention in numerous times during the season.

Oh and you said, to paraphrase, that " he stayed to beat players records " which would imply more than one player.
All purpose TDs are kinda like saying you fucked the prettiest ugly one, he didnt hold hardly any SEC records which most were held by herschel who drove florida crazy and still draws hate from them. Faulk was a utilitarian back but he also returned kicks didnt he? Hes also another guy who stayed 4 years and thats the only reason he broke records in the SEC, you cant tell me hes the best back the SEC has ever had because of all purpose yards? I can think of at least 5 that are ahead of him.

Sorry I said players, I should have just said herschel, it would have made it easier for you.

What do you not grasp about " starts " ?

Compare their starts and Tebow's numbers are still better.

Frazier was a 4 year starter so w/ the exception of the 7 games he missed I'm not sure why he wouldnt have played/started in 41 games ( 12 games a year for 4 years ).

Dude now you wanna complain about his completions ?

His job is to move the ball, not throw 30 yard passes to impress you.

And a little thing about attempts. You have as much of a chance to complete and pass as you do to not complete it, so ..... if you throw more times you have a chance to increase your completion percentage and not always hurt it.

By the way the screenpass and short passes worked fairly well for Alabama yesterday but I guess they don't impress you.

Maybe if UGA would try them now and again they wouldn't be looking up at UF all the time.

I like how you failed to mention QB rating whicg takes into account more than just completions.

But again you live in your own world and laugh in the face of stats and numbers that colleges and the NFL use to rate players.

And I'll say agin, even if the kid never plays another down of football after the bowl game, he was still one of the better players we've seen in a long time.

As far as your predictions go what did you pick in the last 4 UGA/UF games ?
Yeah starts, ignore that teebow played in 16 more games, I hope teebow has fun in the CFL.

You keep bringing up passing ratings which mean shit, if you throw the ball short there is very little chance at an interception or an incomplete pass which leads to a high rating, its not a big deal from his perspective. Here (http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=287)are almost all the rankings for the SEC, teebow doesnt rank in most of the QB categories because he was not a good QB, period.

And I have never argued college, hes a pretty good college player but hes not even as good of a QB as michael vick was and thats pretty fucking bad.

The last 4 games I didnt give them much of a shot, simply because our defensive coach sucked, we had the talent just shitty schemes that a pop warner team could pick apart, now that willie is gone we may have a decent team.

Im still wondering why you are felatting teebow so much? I thought you were an LSU fan.

In short, cry teebow, cry.

[JimBeam]

What you call felatting, which is very clever on your part, I call backing a great player.

It's almost as if you were at the beach one time and he kicked sand in your face and took your g/f to church w/ him.

There's a lot of hate there and it can't all be because you have to go back 30 years to find a player on your favorite team that even comes close to his talent.

[epo]

We already answered this...Tommie Frazier was way better than Tim Tebow.

[JimBeam]

I love how one of the talking points for Texas is " Well hey the last time they won the National Championship it was in the Rose Bowl.

Well the last time Alabama played for the title was in the Sugar Bowl and how'd that turn out for them last year ?

The coach of TCU was just very classy.

He was asked what he would say to make his case that he deserved to play ahead of Alabama and Texas and he said that he wouldn't do that and that he came within a few feet of possibly playing for the championship.

I like the UF/Cincinnati match up but I don't like the rematch of Boise St and TCU.

I was hoping they'd both get to play a BCS league school to see what they had.

I still wonder how it would've turned out if Nebraska had won that game last night.

I had to shut that game off because Nebraska's offense was so terrible.

As much as they were fun to watch on defense it was painfulwatching them power run 2 straight times up the middle then try and pass for 2 yards and then punt.

Wish I had stayed w/ the game a little longer though because the ending sounded interesting.

[epo]

The TCU lovers out there can just shut up. Grown-up schools in grown-up conferences are undefeated and will be playing in the national championship game.

Personally, in a sick way I would have loved to have seen Nebraska beat Texas so that TCU could play Alabama. Then after the 105-0 asswhipping that Alabama put on TCU, in the worst football game ever...I would never have to listen to these undefeated teams from unimportant conferences ever whine again.

[JimBeam]

The TCU lovers out there can just shut up. Grown-up schools in grown-up conferences are undefeated and will be playing in the national championship game.

Personally, in a sick way I would have loved to have seen Nebraska beat Texas so that TCU could play Alabama. Then after the 105-0 asswhipping that Alabama put on TCU, in the worst football game ever...I would never have to listen to these undefeated teams from unimportant conferences ever whine again.

That's what I was hoping for as well.

I wanted TCU and Boise St to both take their lumps from BCS teams so that way people would stop falling back on the Boise St win against OK and Utah's win over Alabama.

[KnoxHarrington]

That's what I was hoping for as well.

I wanted TCU and Boise St to both take their lumps from BCS teams so that way people would stop falling back on the Boise St win against OK and Utah's win over Alabama.

I think you'll kind of get what you want, because I think Florida will lay a whooping on Cincinnati in the Sugar Bowl.

[JimBeam]

Yeah but that's to be expected although I did see something along the bottom ticker during the selection show where somebody predicted a 24-21 win by CinCinnati.

I don't have as much disdain for Cincinnati as I do for TCU and Boise St.

[keithy_19]

I think you'll kind of get what you want, because I think Florida will lay a whooping on Cincinnati in the Sugar Bowl.

Psh. Not with Tony Pike behind center...

[SP1!]

What you call felatting, which is very clever on your part, I call backing a great player.

It's almost as if you were at the beach one time and he kicked sand in your face and took your g/f to church w/ him.

There's a lot of hate there and it can't all be because you have to go back 30 years to find a player on your favorite team that even comes close to his talent.
Call it media over load from thinking teebow is the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, he excels in an era with average players.

At least we can take solace in the fact that he will be the biggest bust in the past 30 years if he insists on playing QB.

It doesnt look like cincy will even give florida a decent game, which pisses me off and GT got the worst possible team they could play, its like playing a better LSU team and LSU stomped them last year.

[Snoogans]

Cincy will give Florida a decent game assuming Kelly is still there by then. Otherwise, it could be slaughter.

I also predict that no one watches the Fiesta Bowl

[Snoogans]

Superdouche Jimmy Clausen goes pro (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4721703)

[SP1!]

Cincy will give Florida a decent game assuming Kelly is still there by then. Otherwise, it could be slaughter.

I also predict that no one watches the Fiesta Bowl

I dont think so, cincy has a bad defense. Personally I would love to see cincy give them a pounding just to laugh at them later.........

[El Mudo]

Superdouche Jimmy Clausen goes pro (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4721703)

That picture of him in the tiny bathing suit on Deadspin is hysterical.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/deadspin/2009/12/clausen.jpg

[JimBeam]

I also predict that no one watches the Fiesta Bowl

I haven't bothered to remember yet but is the Fiesta gonna be TCU and Boise St ?

If so I might watch that before Ga Tech/Iowa in the Orange Bowl I think.

Outside of the champoionship game I don't really see any of the games being very exciting.

Ole Miss/Ok St ... meh.

LSU/Penn St ... meh.

If Army can win this weekend they'd play Temple which might be interesting enough to watch because it's between 2 teams that have been awful for years.

[Snoogans]

I haven't bothered to remember yet but is the Fiesta gonna be TCU and Boise St ?

If so I might watch that before Ga Tech/Iowa in the Orange Bowl I think.

Outside of the champoionship game I don't really see any of the games being very exciting.

Ole Miss/Ok St ... meh.

LSU/Penn St ... meh.

If Army can win this weekend they'd play Temple which might be interesting enough to watch because it's between 2 teams that have been awful for years.

come on. I know you are withdrawing while you wait for Rutgers and Central Florida

[disneyspy]

ha tim brown just said he voted for gerhert of stanford





(past heisman winners arent supposed to say who they vote for)

[disneyspy]

candidates are in QB-colt and tebow,RB-ingram and gerhart and some defense guy from nebraska,his name is long so he wont win

[Snoogans]

candidates are in QB-colt and tebow,RB-ingram and gerhart and some defense guy from nebraska,his name is long so he wont win

Suh, the guy who should win. the best player in the country

[razorboy]

Ndamukong Suh. House of Spears.



The kid is a fucking beast.

[JimBeam]

Mike Francesca said he voted for Gerhart @ #1.

I know that Suh was dominant in that Big 12 game and for all I know all season in the conference but if you're gonna give it to a guy whose team had 4 losses I'd go w/ Gerhart.

I also know that Suh's name be mentioned all year for awards but I can't see giving the award to a player who just plays defense.

I was totally against Woodson winning the award, especially over Manning and his numbers, but in his defense he at least returned punts and kicks.

Thye Big 12 was awful so just because Suh ate up the competition in that league it doesn't really mean he was the best player all year.

As it is I think I'd go w/ Ingram.

People point to the fact that he had a bad game against Auburn but I know that both Tebow and McCoy had lacklauster games and I'm sure Gerhart had a a game or more that was similar to Ingram against Auburn.

[ozzie]

As it is I think I'd go w/ Ingram.

People point to the fact that he had a bad game against Auburn but I know that both Tebow and McCoy had lacklauster games and I'm sure Gerhart had a a game or more that was similar to Ingram against Auburn.

The point is that Auburn hadn't stopped anyone's running game the way they did Bama.

What it showed was that without gaping holes, Ingram is an average back... and was even less than average that day.

And, I said it before, he's not even the best back in the conference, and possibly not even the best on his own team.

Ingram is a good back on a very good team. Period.

Tebow and McCoy are good quarterbacks on very good teams.

People need to start looking outside of just who the sportswriters tell them are the candidates they can choose from... which is almost always from a top ranked, or high profile team.

[epo]

Suh, the guy who should win. the best player in the country

Ndamukong Suh. House of Spears.

The kid is a fucking beast.

He should win, but the voters are so bound to this ridiculous "offense only" voting pattern.

[El Mudo]

He should win, but the voters are so bound to this ridiculous "white quarterback" voting pattern.

Fixed

(7 of the last 9, QB's have won 8 of the last 9 overall, but Troy Smith is black)

[ozzie]

Exactly.

And, again... look at where the winners teams were ranked when they voted....

(Where they were ranked in the final poll before the heisman vote)

2008 - #1 Oklahoma - Sam Bradford
2007 - #12 Florida - Tim Tebow
2006 - #1 Ohio State - Troy Smith
2005 - #1 USC - Reggie Bush
2004 - #1 USC - Matt Leinart
2003 - #1 Oklahoma - Jason White
2002 - #4 USC - Carson Palmer
2001 - #1 Nebraska - Eric Crouch
2000 - #1 Florida State - Chris Weinke

(Not sure where they were before the bowl game, but here's where they finished)

1999 - #4 Wisconsin - Ron Dayne
1998 - #15 Texas - Ricky Williams
1997 - #1 Michigan - Charles Woodson
1996 - #1 Florida - Danny Wuerffel
1995 - #6 Ohio State - Eddie George
1994 - #3 Colorado - Rashaan Salaam
1993 - #1 Florida State - Charlie Ward
1992 - #1 Miami - Geno Torretta
1991 - #6 Michigan - Desmond Howard
1990 - #22 BYU - Ty Detmer
1989 - #14 Houston - Andre Ware
1988 - #11 Oklahoma State - Barry Sanders
1987 - #11 Notre Dame - Tim Brown
1986 - #2 Miami - Vinny Testaverde
1985 - N/R Auburn - Bo Jackson

[KnoxHarrington]

He should win, but the voters are so bound to this ridiculous "offense only" voting pattern.

It's even worse than that: in the entire history of the Heisman, only one primarily defensive player has won it: Charles Woodson in 1997.

This award is a joke.

[JimBeam]

I don't have a problem, depending on the circumstances, with the winner coming from a team that's a winner.

Unless a guy on a team with a crappy record in a real ( yes real I'm not talking about the MAC ) conference had phenominal numbers, dwarfing those of a player on a contender, I think it should go to the player that was on the better team.

One of the sports shows last week read the requirements and it didn't say anything about a players stats ( for or against ) or even that it had to based on the current year. They mentioned that because of the talk about either McCoy or Tebow winning it for a career.

I've heard a few more people mention Gerhart as their pick so I think we might be surprised at how well he does even if he doesn't win it.

I can see both Tebow and Ingram losing votes for the southeast to each other.

I can see Tebow and McCoy splitting southern QB voting.

I think all of those help Gerhart.

As far as defensive players go I don't think they should win it over a QB because what they do is so much more contigent on what the other 10 players on defense do whereas a QB has to lead the team on every offensive drive.

Obvioulsy the QB plays as well as his line and skill players allow him to but he still hasto make the decisions that can win or lose a game more often than a defensive player.

If Suh doesn't get to the QB there's a chance that one of the other lineman does.

When Texas gets the ball at the 20 yard line and needs to go 8o yards for a score it's up to McCoy to direct that.

[JimBeam]

Subcommittee OKs college playoff bill

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4727426

At least they've put the non-important things to the side for a while.

I heard that a representative from Texas, obvioulsy a TCU guy, was the one who presented this legislation.

That's gonna hurt him with UT votes when he runs for relection.

[Snoogans]

it doesnt even matter. its never gettin passed

[JimBeam]

That's for sure.

It doesn't even seem like they had enough interest within the commitee.

[Snoogans]

Lane Kiffin is still a cheater (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4727155)

basically he sent hot chicks to recruits games to get them to come to tennessee

[JimBeam]

I usually like Eric K on ESPN because he's one of the few non-full time college football guys on that channel that covers the sport very well.

While I think Gerhart is a strong possibility for the Heisman this weekend Eric is over selling it.

He keeps saying that if Gerhart played east of the Mississippi that it wouldn't even be close.

Not if he was playing on a 4 loss team so why should he get so much more credit for playing on a 4 loss team in a mediocre, for the most part, conference ?

The other thing he's saying, as well as many others, is that McCoy and Tebow had bad championship games.

While this is true those games were bigger than anything Gerhart played in all year.

You can't say oh they failed in an SEC/Big 12 title game so they're out of the discussion when Gerhart didn't play in a meaningful game, as far as the national picture, all year.

I agree that the seasons for the 2 QBs aren't outstanding and their final games do reflect on them it's unfair to put more weight, with regards to the award, on a game deciding BCS champion positions than to put on a Stanford/ASU game.

[KnoxHarrington]

This is interesting: the writers for CNNSI.com who get Heisman votes have posted their ballots, and if you just go by their votes, it looks like Ndamukong Suh (I will admit that I copy and pasted that name) has a real chance. Of the ten ballots, Suh gets 6 first place votes, Mark Ingram gets 3, and Toby Gerhart gets 1 first-place vote.

But, then again, these are guys who write about football on a national level, who probably watch, or at least monitor, pretty much every game of note, and don't really have ties to a particular team. The rest of the votes are going to a bunch of dopes at small, regional papers, or, even worse, the previous Heisman winners, so I doubt Suh has a chance. I'm expecting it to be Tebow, who will set a record for most uses of the word "God" per minute in his acceptance speech.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/09/heisman/index.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Notre Dame has a new head coach. If a guy named Kelly can't save them no one can


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/independents/2009-12-11-kelly-notre-dame-introduction_N.htm?csp=34

[Snoogans]

This is interesting: the writers for CNNSI.com who get Heisman votes have posted their ballots, and if you just go by their votes, it looks like Ndamukong Suh (I will admit that I copy and pasted that name) has a real chance. Of the ten ballots, Suh gets 6 first place votes, Mark Ingram gets 3, and Toby Gerhart gets 1 first-place vote.

But, then again, these are guys who write about football on a national level, who probably watch, or at least monitor, pretty much every game of note, and don't really have ties to a particular team. The rest of the votes are going to a bunch of dopes at small, regional papers, or, even worse, the previous Heisman winners, so I doubt Suh has a chance. I'm expecting it to be Tebow, who will set a record for most uses of the word "God" per minute in his acceptance speech.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/09/heisman/index.html
they had a thing on ESPN today where they said 250 voters have announced their votes so far and gearhart has 44%, ingram and sue each have 40% of first place votes

[epo]

I don't have a problem, depending on the circumstances, with the winner coming from a team that's a winner.

Unless a guy on a team with a crappy record in a real ( yes real I'm not talking about the MAC ) conference had phenominal numbers, dwarfing those of a player on a contender, I think it should go to the player that was on the better team.

One of the sports shows last week read the requirements and it didn't say anything about a players stats ( for or against ) or even that it had to based on the current year. They mentioned that because of the talk about either McCoy or Tebow winning it for a career.

I've heard a few more people mention Gerhart as their pick so I think we might be surprised at how well he does even if he doesn't win it.

I can see both Tebow and Ingram losing votes for the southeast to each other.

I can see Tebow and McCoy splitting southern QB voting.

I think all of those help Gerhart.

As far as defensive players go I don't think they should win it over a QB because what they do is so much more contigent on what the other 10 players on defense do whereas a QB has to lead the team on every offensive drive.

Obvioulsy the QB plays as well as his line and skill players allow him to but he still hasto make the decisions that can win or lose a game more often than a defensive player.

If Suh doesn't get to the QB there's a chance that one of the other lineman does.

When Texas gets the ball at the 20 yard line and needs to go 8o yards for a score it's up to McCoy to direct that.

The problem with your thoughts are that Suh was clearly the best player in college football this season.

[Snoogans]

The problem with your thoughts are that Suh was clearly the best player in college football this season.

my favorite part was "if suh doesnt get there, some other lineman will"

really? Cause if the best one cant get through, those shitty guys will. And maybe they woulda, 2 seconds later after mccoy hit shipley for a TD. If you watched 1 quarter of the big 12 championship and no other minute of Suh, you still know he was the most outstanding player in the country

[epo]

my favorite part was "if suh doesnt get there, some other lineman will"

really? Cause if the best one cant get through, those shitty guys will. And maybe they woulda, 2 seconds later after mccoy hit shipley for a TD. If you watched 1 quarter of the big 12 championship and no other minute of Suh, you still know he was the most outstanding player in the country

Its that line of thinking that a QB is the "best player" on the field that makes the Heisman Trophy a fucking joke. I would love to have the trophy matter, but as long as crappy white QBs are winning the trophy over linemen, backers, dbacks and wideouts who dominate the game...the trophy is meaningless.

[Snoogans]

Its that line of thinking that a QB is the "best player" on the field that makes the Heisman Trophy a fucking joke. I would love to have the trophy matter, but as long as crappy white QBs are winning the trophy over linemen, backers, dbacks and wideouts who dominate the game...the trophy is meaningless.

the QB is the most important person on the field just cause how much of the game goes through them. But that should actually make it HARDER for them to be the most outstanding, since EVERY QB RUNS THE GAME. Everything is set up for the QB, the offense for his weapons. For a D Line to be that much more amazing than the rest of the D guys would be like a QB throwing for 8000 yards and 100 TDs in 1 year.

[epo]

the QB is the most important person on the field just cause how much of the game goes through them. But that should actually make it HARDER for them to be the most outstanding, since EVERY QB RUNS THE GAME. Everything is set up for the QB, the offense for his weapons. For a D Line to be that much more amazing than the rest of the D guys would be like a QB throwing for 8000 yards and 100 TDs in 1 year.

But...but....Jason White was better than Larry Fitzgerald!

[Snoogans]

But...but....Jason White was better than Larry Fitzgerald!

you just hit my big one. I couldnt believe that fitz didnt win that. Esp since fitz is at least in one of the positions that has a good chance every year.

[epo]

you just hit my big one. I couldnt believe that fitz didnt win that. Esp since fitz is at least in one of the positions that has a good chance every year.

And lets remember how dominant Fitzgerald was on the field, versus White would was simply a good system QB who put up solid numbers.

[Snoogans]

And lets remember how dominant Fitzgerald was on the field, versus White would was simply a good system QB who put up solid numbers.

there is something about Fitz i cant explain. He defies NFL logic in that he gets open, dominates on the field, breaks huge plays. Yet if I remember right, he ran like a 4.75 at the combine. He is slower than almost anyone on the field around him, sans linemen, and yet he still dominates

[Suspect Chin]

Mark Ingram wins Heisman. Let's hope he isn't pawning it to pay Johnny Cochran in 20 years.

[KnoxHarrington]

Oh well, at least it wasn't Tebow.

We get it. You like Jesus. Can we move on, please?

[ozzie]

2009 - #1 Alabama - Mark Ingram
2008 - #1 Oklahoma - Sam Bradford
2007 - #12 Florida - Tim Tebow
2006 - #1 Ohio State - Troy Smith
2005 - #1 USC - Reggie Bush
2004 - #1 USC - Matt Leinart
2003 - #1 Oklahoma - Jason White
2002 - #4 USC - Carson Palmer
2001 - #1 Nebraska - Eric Crouch
2000 - #1 Florida State - Chris Weinke

This award, like the MNC, has become a farce.

[Snoogans]

Did anyone else catch the U documentary last night on ESPN. It was fuckin good

[SP1!]

And lets remember how dominant Fitzgerald was on the field, versus White would was simply a good system QB who put up solid numbers.

Most the time the heisman has been given to a player at an established program, most people havent mentioned the university of pittsburgh since Marino went there.

And I still hate marino since he ruined a second national title for georgia that year, Im glad he never won a SB.

[El Mudo]

The most odd thing about Ingram's win was the fact that Alabama had never had a Heisman winner before. That was more shocking to me than anything than the award results.

[JimBeam]

The problem with your thoughts are that Suh was clearly the best player in college football this season.

Why because you heard them say that on ESPN ?

Dude you may have seen 1 possibly 2 games played by the guy all year so don't act like you're some kinda insider.

And how many other defensive linemen in the country did you watch to compare him to ?

Just because Mark May and Musburger ( sp ?? ) say it doesn't make it gospel.

my favorite part was "if suh doesnt get there, some other lineman will"

really? Cause if the best one cant get through, those shitty guys will. And maybe they woulda, 2 seconds later after mccoy hit shipley for a TD. If you watched 1 quarter of the big 12 championship and no other minute of Suh, you still know he was the most outstanding player in the country

So only the best defensive player on the team gets sacks and makes tackles for losses ?

No other team in football, other than Nebraska, since they had the best player, had a defensive lineman w/ sacks and/or tackles for losses ?

Sure he had an outstanding Big 12 title game. Probably one of the best individual games, if not the best ever for a defensive player, but let's not forget that Ingram had a pretty good game against the #1 team in the country.

Personally i wouldn't have cared who won it as the field was fairly well rounded.

With that said I didn't think Tebow's numbers were good enough compared to what the others had done and I would've had some questions about a 1 way defensive player on a 4 loss team winning it.

If I had to vote I think it would've been between Ingram, Gerhart and McCoy.

All 3 had a subpar game or 2 but based on measureable things, such as stats, I think the top 3 vote getters where acurate.

Gerhart was probably hurt by the fact that the PAC10 wasn't so good.

Did they, or do they ever, release the actual votes by region ?

I know they don't share the voters and their actual votes but I figured they'd at least share the map that Herbsteit was referencing.

Not sure if any of you have seen this but it's a pretty good site :

http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/

[Snoogans]

Why because you heard them say that on ESPN ?

Dude you may have seen 1 possibly 2 games played by the guy all year so don't act like you're some kinda insider.

And how many other defensive linemen in the country did you watch to compare him to ?

Just because Mark May and Musburger ( sp ?? ) say it doesn't make it gospel.



So only the best defensive player on the team gets sacks and makes tackles for losses ?



come on bro. you cant possibly be serious. Other lineman make tackles of course, but there job is alot easier because of Suh. you take him out, they get less pressure, less penatration. Thats a fact of any line. You cant just make a comment like if Suh doesnt get there, someone else will. by sayin that, you are basically sayin Suh didnt make any difference, and you are completely BLIND if you think that.

And no, it has nothing to do with what people said. Suh was far and away better than McCoy and Better than Cody. Far and away the best player in college football as compared to his peers. No other D line was close to as good, and other RBs and QBs were close to or as good as the other candidates.

And before you continue to shoot your mouth off with misinformation, and I know you meant it to epo, but I actually watched 8 or 9 Nebraska games this year. Suh is the best player in the country. period.

Anything else you try to say is nonsense. you are just blind. Anyone who ever makes a comment take away the teams best player and some other guy will just make the plays instead obviously NEVER WATCHES SPORTS

Learn something or go away



And before any jerkoff makes a comment that McCoy is a QB, I meant Gerald McCoy

[JimBeam]

Who the hell made you the expert ?

Dude you post in here like your word is final and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Apparently the actual voters of the Heisman didn't think he was the greatest player either.

Actually it seems like they didn'r even consider him the 2nd or 3rd best.

Oh wait is this where you tell me that you know more than them and that they should watch more football ?

I never said Suh didn't make a difference but I did say that other players on the team allow him to be better as much as he allows them to be better.

That's w/ any defense nevermind Nebraska.

I can't use stats like I normally would because defensive numbers aren't as cut and dry as offensive ones but there's a sophmore defensive lineman on Nebraska that had 70 tackles and 9.5 sacks. That's 12 less tackles and 2.5 less sacks than Suh.

Now while you can easily say that that guy got his numbers because teams were concentrating on Suh who's to say at time they didn't have to pay attention to the other guy ?

My overall point was that I don't ever think a defensive player would desereve the award over an offensive player that had great numbers on a good team.

I watch plenty of sports and I've seen plenty of times where the double team on a team's best player has allowed other players to make an impact.

If you haven't ever seen that then maybe you should go away and watch some more sports.

[JimBeam]

And before you continue to shoot your mouth off with misinformation, and I know you meant it to epo, but I actually watched 8 or 9 Nebraska games this year. Suh is the best player in the country. period.

Misinformation ?

Best player period ?

I guess we watch different channels because I saw Ingram walking away w/ what I thought was the award for the best player in college football.

[Snoogans]

Who the hell made you the expert ?

Dude you post in here like your word is final and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Apparently the actual voters of the Heisman didn't think he was the greatest player either.

Actually it seems like they didn'r even consider him the 2nd or 3rd best.

Oh wait is this where you tell me that you know more than them and that they should watch more football ?

I never said Suh didn't make a difference but I did say that other players on the team allow him to be better as much as he allows them to be better.

That's w/ any defense nevermind Nebraska.

I can't use stats like I normally would because defensive numbers aren't as cut and dry as offensive ones but there's a sophmore defensive lineman on Nebraska that had 70 tackles and 9.5 sacks. That's 12 less tackles and 2.5 less sacks than Suh.

Now while you can easily say that that guy got his numbers because teams were concentrating on Suh who's to say at time they didn't have to pay attention to the other guy ?

My overall point was that I don't ever think a defensive player would desereve the award over an offensive player that had great numbers on a good team.

I watch plenty of sports and I've seen plenty of times where the double team on a team's best player has allowed other players to make an impact.

If you haven't ever seen that then maybe you should go away and watch some more sports.

you didnt even read what I said. I said Suh was more outstanding as a D Line. You cant compare who was better. The point I made was that Suh was better than all the other DL guys than Ingram was better than the RBs and McCoy was better than the QBs. Thats why Suh should have won, cause he was the most OUTSTANDING PLAYER. ingram wasnt outstanding, he was around the same as Gearhart. That was my point. Suh was so far above guys at his posiition that he was more outstanding.


as to what I bolded, you just made my point and changed your own. you made the point that if Suh wasnt there, the other DL would have made those plays. Thats insane, they made the plays they make cause of Suh, just like you just said now. Earlier, that isnt what you said, so now you are changing your arguement cause you got owned. So shut the fuck up. Anyone who has ever watched football that reads this arguement would think I am an expert compared to your nonsense. you dont even read what others say. you respond to what you wanted them to be saying.

you are just a moron. Dont even make a point back to this, cause you are ruined. over. Goodbye

[Snoogans]

Misinformation ?

Best player period ?

I guess we watch different channels because I saw Ingram walking away w/ what I thought was the award for the best player in college football.

the misinformation was you saying 1 or 2 games seen.

And no, OLD GENIUS OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL, the best player in the country is the Maxwell award. The Heisman is for the most outstanding, as in like an MVP. Its not for the best individual. its for the one who stood out the most. Suh stood out for DL more than Ingram did above Gearhart. Thats why the voters fucked up


LEARN SOMETHING MORON

[Snoogans]

The Maxwell Award is presented annually to the collegiate American football player judged by a panel of sportscasters, sportswriters, and National Collegiate Athletic Association head coaches and the membership of the Maxwell Football Club to be the best football player in the United States.

The Heisman Memorial Trophy Award (usually known colloquially as the Heisman Trophy or the Heisman), named after the former Brown University college football player and coach John Heisman, is awarded annually by the Heisman Trophy Trust to the most outstanding player in collegiate football. While it is not the only award honoring the most outstanding player in college football – Walter Camp Award and Maxwell Award are awarded to the "best player" –

[JimBeam]

But please put in bold how the majority of voters didn't agree with you.

Ingram was outstanding in that he had good numbers on a team that was undefeated and that, failry or not, plays into how many voters act for the award.

And before you make the claim, correctly, that others helped Alabama to where they are there were several players in the secondary that had an impact in that Big 12 title game as well.

[Snoogans]

But please put in bold how the majority of voters didn't agree with you.

Ingram was outstanding in that he had good numbers on a team that was undefeated and that, failry or not, plays into how many voters act for the award.

And before you make the claim, correctly, that others helped Alabama to where they are there were several players in the secondary that had an impact in that Big 12 title game as well.

ive already said the voters disagreed. And were wrong.

And no, that isnt the claim. i think Suh is the best player in the country. Some may think he isnt. Thats not what the heisman is about.

If you honestly tell me you think Ingram was as much more outstanding compared to other RBs than Suh was compared to other DTs, then that you are wrong about. Its an opinion, but its one thats wrong.

Suh was so much better than every other DL. Ingram was not SO MUCH better than every other RB. Thats why Suh was more OUTSTANDING, which is why he should have won

This arguement was never about who is better, at least not for me. I think Suh is but that doesnt matter, he was clearly more outstanding

[ozzie]

Ask any Bama fan, or anyone who followed that team all year, and most will tell you that (Butkus Award Winner) Rolando McClain was the best PLAYER for U of A... and most will argue that Trent Richardson is as good, or better, running back on the same team, but who got fewer carries.

[Snoogans]

Ask any Bama fan, or anyone who followed that team all year, and most will tell you that (Butkus Award Winner) Rolando McClain was the best PLAYER for U of A... and most will argue that Trent Richardson is as good, or better, running back on the same team, but who got fewer carries.

this is only part of my point but i agree, bama woulda been much better without ingram than nebraska woulda been without Suh

even still, Suh was so much further above other DL than Ingram was above other RBs that the voters blew it, bad

[JimBeam]

the misinformation was you saying 1 or 2 games seen.

But as you pointed out yourself that was aimed specifically at Epo's comment.

While you may share the opinion and had it been you I might've called into question how many games you actually saw the point still is what are you comparing it to ?

Otherwise it's opinion.

I can take it more as fact from a professional who watches the game as part of their occupation then I can from somebody who watches it as a fan.

The difference between the 2 of us is I make my posts based on my opinion and the facts that I've looked at whereas you think you're right all the time.

I can resepctfully disagree w/ somebody's opinion even if I think the facts/numbers make me right.

You continue to state something as fact even though the people that actually matter have disagreed w/ you.

I misstated what I meant.

I meant that Ingram was the best player based on the fact that he got the more important award.

Actually the Hesiman voting does not make any reference to what you have to use as criteria for voting ( at least from what I heard on the radio the othe day ).

You can vote for the guy w/ the best numbers, the one that you think had the best career, etc ...

[Snoogans]

But as you pointed out yourself that was aimed specifically at Epo's comment.

While you may share the opinion and had it been you I might've called into question how many games you actually saw the point still is what are you comparing it to ?

Otherwise it's opinion.



you really think Ingram was as much better than other RBs and Suh was other DL? you really think Colt mcCoy was as much better than other QBs as Suh was other D Line?

You are wrong not because your opinion is wrong, but you are giving the wrong opinion. Look at it the way you are supposed to, then tell me what you think. If you really think Ingram stood as far above guys like Gearhart and Spiller and Suh did above Cody and McCoy and anyone else, I really dont think you watch college football, or you yourself have never watched Suh. You have to see the point im making now.

Its not about who was better, its about who stood out more

[JimBeam]

ive already said the voters disagreed. And were wrong.

And no, that isnt the claim. i think Suh is the best player in the country. Some may think he isnt. Thats not what the heisman is about.

If you honestly tell me you think Ingram was as much more outstanding compared to other RBs than Suh was compared to other DTs, then that you are wrong about. Its an opinion, but its one thats wrong.

Suh was so much better than every other DL. Ingram was not SO MUCH better than every other RB. Thats why Suh was more OUTSTANDING, which is why he should have won

This arguement was never about who is better, at least not for me. I think Suh is but that doesnt matter, he was clearly more outstanding

I said originally that I thought in some way they were all deserving w/ a few exceptions.

I personally, w/o a Heisman vote, usually lean towards an offensive player.

I do this because I think it's easier to impact a game when you have your hands on the ball than it is when you're on defense.

That may not be fair but it's how I think.

I wouldn't have voted for an Orlando pace kinda player either.

And yes Suh probably made his team better than Ingram made his but I think most voters, again failry or not, fall back on tangible numbers that they can comprehend and don't really look past the numbers.

[Snoogans]

Actually the Hesiman voting does not make any reference to what you have to use as criteria for voting ( at least from what I heard on the radio the othe day ).

You can vote for the guy w/ the best numbers, the one that you think had the best career, etc ...

the award itself says it, most outstanding player. you can vote for whoever you want. But much like the MVP, voters have gotten away from what the award is about.

You can vote that way cause its your vote, but thats not what is intended. Same with why the MVP usually goes to a guy who wasnt close to the most important guy to his team. Otherwise no yankee would ever win it, cause they have too many other good players.

Thats what the heisman should be. Thats what i am arguing. you are arguing something different and I have conceided multiple times that the voters didnt agree with me. Im sayin you are wrong in our arguement cause you are arguing something else. And instead of answering shit, you shift your arguements or say something contradictory to what you said. You originally said basically Suh didnt mean anything and those other guys would be just as good. There was no mis statement, thats what you said

[Snoogans]

And yes Suh probably made his team better than Ingram made his but I think most voters, again failry or not, fall back on tangible numbers that they can comprehend and don't really look past the numbers.

see bro. you are arguing shit I already conceided to you. long ago. but you keep argueing about it when we are talking something else. Thats why I tell you you are wrong. Not that i disagree with your opinion.

How many times do I have to say the voters didnt agree with me and this isnt about the voters before you shut the fuck up about the voters? I was making a point to you that you were wrong with your opinions on Suh and you pushed it with more nonsense. Then you commented incorrectly what the heisman was

[Snoogans]

also when I say best, you obviously cant compare what a RB does with what a D guy does. So when I look at who is the best, you can compare to only their position. Basically Suh, IMO, is the best player because he was better than everyone else at his position than anyone else was over their position. I dont think Ingram was necc the best RB in the country, so how can he be the best player. Even if he is the best RB, its barely. So with his peers, its close

With Suh's peers, its no where close. He dominates more than anyone else does at their position. To me, that makes him the best


and dont argue this please, this had nothing to do with our convo.

[JimBeam]

I really dont think you watch college football, or you yourself have never watched Suh

I, like probably most of the people here, have seen very little of Suh.

To be honest I only saw him in what portion of the Big 12 title game I watched.

But again I'm not saying the guy sucks and I'm also not saying another player at this position is better because I don't have enough information to make that argument.

Was Suh better at his position than both Ingram and Gerhart were there's ?

It would seem so since he was the only DL to be in the group and the 1st defensive finalist since '97.

But as I said earlier I think the award is and always has been about the player perceived to be the best on one of the better teams.

There are plenty of examples of debatable Heisman awards ( Toretta and White ).

If Suh was on a 13-0 team or if they had even beaten Texas I think he'd have done better w/ voters and probably would've gotten a lot of McCoy's votes.

[Snoogans]

I, like probably most of the people here, have seen very little of Suh.

To be honest I only saw him in what portion of the Big 12 title game I watched.

But again I'm not saying the guy sucks and I'm also not saying another player at this position is better because I don't have enough information to make that argument.

Was Suh better at his position than both Ingram and Gerhart were there's ?

It would seem so since he was the only DL to be in the group and the 1st defensive finalist since '97.

But as I said earlier I think the award is and always has been about the player perceived to be the best on one of the better teams.

There are plenty of examples of debatable Heisman awards ( Toretta and White ).

If Suh was on a 13-0 team or if they had even beaten Texas I think he'd have done better w/ voters and probably would've gotten a lot of McCoy's votes.

no, it hasnt. In fact read what Ozzie posted. This is relatively new. For the longest time it went to the most outstanding player, and most of that other shit didnt really matter. Just who was the most outstanding. its only relatively recently that its gone to the best player on a really good team. Thats why its bullshit. It hasnt always been that way.

[hammersavage]

also when I say best, you obviously cant compare what a RB does with what a D guy does. So when I look at who is the best, you can compare to only their position. Basically Suh, IMO, is the best player because he was better than everyone else at his position than anyone else was over their position. I dont think Ingram was necc the best RB in the country, so how can he be the best player. Even if he is the best RB, its barely. So with his peers, its close

With Suh's peers, its no where close. He dominates more than anyone else does at their position. To me, that makes him the best


and dont argue this please, this had nothing to do with our convo.

I agree with all this. I don't even think Ingram was the best running back nominated.

[Snoogans]

I agree with all this. I don't even think Ingram was the best running back nominated.

My vote woulda been

1 - Suh
2 - Gearhart
3 - CJ Spiller

[JimBeam]

I meant in my college football watching life, the last 20+ years, it was about the player thought to be best on the better team.

But I'm sure some of those old school ND guys got their awards based on who they were and where they played.

I think one thing we can all agree w/ about the award is that the votes should not be allowed to be submitted until after the final week of the season.

Also the credentials of the voters should be validated.

On that StiffArm site it looked like the vast majority where sports people but I'm not sure that the local newspaper in Omaha should get 2 voters.

[Snoogans]

I meant in my college football watching life, the last 20+ years, it was about the player thought to be best on the better team.

But I'm sure some of those old school ND guys got their awards based on who they were and where they played.

I think one thing we can all agree w/ about the award is that the votes should not be allowed to be submitted until after the final week of the season.

Also the credentials of the voters should be validated.

On that StiffArm site it looked like the vast majority where sports people but I'm not sure that the local newspaper in Omaha should get 2 voters.

they should also not allow anyone to release votes til after the award is given. There were guys on espn the day before the ballot was due saying who they voted for. Human nature is to wanna be the winner so that definately influences votes. It should all be a one day thing after every game is played and no one can talk about it til after the ceremony.

AND GIVE IT TO THE MOST OUTSTANDING GUY, DAMMIT

[ozzie]

I can take it more as fact from a professional who watches the game as part of their occupation then I can from somebody who watches it as a fan.

From the other "professional(s) who watches the game as part of their occupation" award voters' opinions:

Colt McCoy - Maxwell Award honoring the nation's best all-around player
Colt McCoy - Walter Camp Football Foundation's player of the year award (second consecutive season)
Colt McCoy - Davey O'Brien Award (best quarterback)
Ndamukong Suh - Chuck Bednarik Award (best defensive player)
Ndamukong Suh - Outland Trophy (best interior lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Lombardi Award (top lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Bronko Nagurski Trophy (top defensive player)
Toby Gerhart - Doak Walker Award (best running back)
Eric Berry - Jim Thorpe Award (best defensive back)
Golden Tate - Biletnikoff Award (best receiver)

Mark Ingram won the "Top Offensive player from the #1 team" award, aka, the Heisman Trophy.

[JimBeam]

I bounced back a few times on who I thought was better between Ingarm and Gerhart and I'm still not sure where I'd vote other than that I looked at what each players' team did.

Statistically you can say they were somewhat even w/ Ingram doing more pass catching and Gerhart having more yards rushing.

They both had shakey games, Ingram at Auburn and Gerhart at Wake Forest.

It seems like for what they talked about on many of the shows was Ingram's yards after contact and his stats against the better teams.

A few talking heads, whether they were voters or not, were big on the yards after contact.

I heard 1 mention that Ingram only fumbled once but if I remember the stats correctly Gerhart didn't fumble at all and actually hasn't fumbled in his career.

[Snoogans]

From the other "professional(s) who watches the game as part of their occupation" award voters' opinions:

Colt McCoy - Maxwell Award honoring the nation's best all-around player
Colt McCoy - Walter Camp Football Foundation's player of the year award (second consecutive season)
Colt McCoy - Davey O'Brien Award (best quarterback)
Ndamukong Suh - Chuck Bednarik Award (best defensive player)
Ndamukong Suh - Outland Trophy (best interior lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Lombardi Award (top lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Bronko Nagurski Trophy (top defensive player)
Toby Gerhart - Doak Walker Award (best running back)
Eric Berry - Jim Thorpe Award (best defensive back)
Golden Tate - Biletnikoff Award (best receiver)

Mark Ingram won the "Top Offensive player from the #1 team" award, aka, the Heisman Trophy.

how fuckin funny is that. HOW DOES INGRAM WIN THE HEISMAN AND NOT HIS POSITION AWARD???

[Snoogans]

my early top 5 for 2010 heisman

1- Tom Savage
2 - Mohammad Sanu
3 - Joe Martinek
4 - Shammar Graves
5 - Joe Lefedged

[hammersavage]

My vote woulda been

1 - Suh
2 - Gearhart
3 - CJ Spiller

Yup

[Snoogans]

Jake Locker is stayin for his Sr year

[JimBeam]

From the other "professional(s) who watches the game as part of their occupation" award voters' opinions:

Colt McCoy - Maxwell Award honoring the nation's best all-around player
Colt McCoy - Walter Camp Football Foundation's player of the year award (second consecutive season)
Colt McCoy - Davey O'Brien Award (best quarterback)
Ndamukong Suh - Chuck Bednarik Award (best defensive player)
Ndamukong Suh - Outland Trophy (best interior lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Lombardi Award (top lineman)
Ndamukong Suh - Bronko Nagurski Trophy (top defensive player)
Toby Gerhart - Doak Walker Award (best running back)
Eric Berry - Jim Thorpe Award (best defensive back)
Golden Tate - Biletnikoff Award (best receiver)

Mark Ingram won the "Top Offensive player from the #1 team" award, aka, the Heisman Trophy.

Ozzie if I remember correctly you're an Auburn fan so I'm gonna take your anti-Ingram sentiment for what it's worth.

Not saying that your incorrect just that if Ingram was playing for Auburn w/ the exact stats you wouldn't have a problem w/ this vote.

It's natural for a fan to think that way and I'd probably be pulling for a player like Suh or McCoy to win the award if they played for Notre Dame.

But is it your argument that the winner of ONE OF the above awards should win the Hiesman ?

[hammersavage]

Jake Locker is stayin for his Sr year

Nice. Does this put Jimmy #1 QB on the board?

[Snoogans]

Nice. Does this put Jimmy #1 QB on the board?

depends whose board. not mine, but my board is a little different than most, because I would have LeFevour as the best QB, none of these overrated big school bums.

By most accounts I think Bradford is still number 1

[Snoogans]

Ozzie if I remember correctly you're an Auburn fan so I'm gonna take your anti-Ingram sentiment for what it's worth.

Not saying that your incorrect just that if Ingram was playing for Auburn w/ the exact stats you wouldn't have a problem w/ this vote.

It's natural for a fan to think that way and I'd probably be pulling for a player like Suh or McCoy to win the award if they played for Notre Dame.

But is it your argument that the winner of ONE OF the above awards should win the Hiesman ?

i think its more that the award for most outstanding player went to a guy who wasnt good enough to win a single award, including the ones for best at his position, nevermind nationally

[hammersavage]

He's number 1 on my big board. Not that I actually have a big board. I wish I did though.

[Snoogans]

He's number 1 on my big board. Not that I actually have a big board. I wish I did though.

Claussen? From all things I hear, he needs to have a complete 180 attitude change to be accepted in an NFL locker room

[underdog]

He's number 1 on my big board. Not that I actually have a big board. I wish I did though.

snoogans used to have one, but he got rid of it.

[hammersavage]

Claussen? From all things I hear, he needs to have a complete 180 attitude change to be accepted in an NFL locker room

I don't care about his attitude. That may be true even though I never got that impression. I say without a bias, he has the most NFL ready skills of anyone in the draft now that Locker is out. And even with Locker in, I personally didn't see exactly what people were talking about but enough people told me I was wrong that I assume I have to be.

Oddly too, I really like LeFevour alot too. I hope he gets a shot.

[Snoogans]

snoogans used to have one, but he got rid of it.

HAHAHAHAHA. i still have it, its just next to me instead of behind me now

[Snoogans]

I don't care about his attitude. That may be true even though I never got that impression. I say without a bias, he has the most NFL ready skills of anyone in the draft now that Locker is out. And even with Locker in, I personally didn't see exactly what people were talking about but enough people told me I was wrong that I assume I have to be.

Oddly too, I really like LeFevour alot too. I hope he gets a shot.

I watched probably 7 games of lefevour this year and prob 20 overall and I really think he is that good. Someone will be so pleasantly surprised with him

[hammersavage]

HAHAHAHAHA. i still have it, its just next to me instead of behind me now

Give yourself a Kiper Jr. haircut.

[JimBeam]

I can't believe that Clausen is this highly regarded.

He seems to have a major hitch in his delivery.

Did either of his brothers ever get drafted or picked up as free agents ?

[Snoogans]

I don't care about his attitude. That may be true even though I never got that impression. I say without a bias, he has the most NFL ready skills of anyone in the draft now that Locker is out. And even with Locker in, I personally didn't see exactly what people were talking about but enough people told me I was wrong that I assume I have to be.

Oddly too, I really like LeFevour alot too. I hope he gets a shot.

I dont see locker much at all but from the little I have, the big thing on him seems that he is smart. He reads defenses well from all things I could tell, again a very limited sample. Otherwise I dont know enough

[Snoogans]

Give yourself a Kiper Jr. haircut.

i dont think my hair will stay like that

[Snoogans]

I can't believe that Clausen is this highly regarded.

He seems to have a major hitch in his delivery.

Did either of his brothers ever get drafted or picked up as free agents ?

I would guess that anyone in the NFL who considered signing Kasey Clausen was fired.

Im gonna wait to rank my QBs til I see all the ones who come out. There are a few who could stay or go that im intrigued by.

I will say I have Tim Tebow so low that his name is being used to keep the big board from tilting

[Snoogans]

and just some knowledge, I dont know what the fuck Todd McShay is thinkin on Anthony Davis. he is good sometimes but he seems stupid and lazy. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he will struggle for a while goin to the NFL. I dont know how the fuck they are projecting him to go 9th overall

[El Mudo]

come on bro. you cant possibly be serious. Other lineman make tackles of course, but there job is alot easier because of Suh. you take him out, they get less pressure, less penatration. Thats a fact of any line. You cant just make a comment like if Suh doesnt get there, someone else will. by sayin that, you are basically sayin Suh didnt make any difference, and you are completely BLIND if you think that.

And no, it has nothing to do with what people said. Suh was far and away better than McCoy and Better than Cody. Far and away the best player in college football as compared to his peers. No other D line was close to as good, and other RBs and QBs were close to or as good as the other candidates.

And before you continue to shoot your mouth off with misinformation, and I know you meant it to epo, but I actually watched 8 or 9 Nebraska games this year. Suh is the best player in the country. period.

Anything else you try to say is nonsense. you are just blind. Anyone who ever makes a comment take away the teams best player and some other guy will just make the plays instead obviously NEVER WATCHES SPORTS

Learn something or go away



And before any jerkoff makes a comment that McCoy is a QB, I meant Gerald McCoy


Perfect example of this is what happened to Florida without Carlos Dunlap

[JimBeam]

I'm not bringing up the Suh thing as a continuation of the previous discussion but why is Gerald McCoy now considered the better pro ( based on what I heard this weekend ) ?

I heard Golic say that he thought Suh used his hands too much and that he wouldn't get away w/ that as much in the NFL but haven't really heard anything else.

[JimBeam]

I dont see locker much at all but from the little I have, the big thing on him seems that he is smart. He reads defenses well from all things I could tell, again a very limited sample. Otherwise I dont know enough

Yeah I thought when I saw him against USC a few years ago that he was a spread/option kinda guy.

I never thought he was so highly regarded until I heard him mentioned as an NFL guy mid-season.

[ozzie]

Ozzie if I remember correctly you're an Auburn fan so I'm gonna take your anti-Ingram sentiment for what it's worth.

Not saying that your incorrect just that if Ingram was playing for Auburn w/ the exact stats you wouldn't have a problem w/ this vote.

It's natural for a fan to think that way and I'd probably be pulling for a player like Suh or McCoy to win the award if they played for Notre Dame.

But is it your argument that the winner of ONE OF the above awards should win the Hiesman ?

Man, it has nothing to do with any anti-Bama shit. Don't even try that.

If (2009 Butkus Award Winner) Rolando McClain had gone to New York as a candidate (as the nation's second best defensive player), I would have been in total agreement.

Or if Ingram got a nomination as the "second" best running back... fine. (Although he's still probably third or fourth best to spiller and Dion Lewis)

But you brought up the point of listening to the "experts" opinions rather than us fans, so I gave you theirs.

If Ingram isn't the best running back in the nation... and isn't the best offensive player... in the experts opinions, when looking at each position and each side of the ball...

...then how else do you justify him as being voted the best player? Other than his team's ranking?

Fuck, I wish Tennessee had made one of those two kicks. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

And it wasn't just one bad game. Arkansas had one of the worst defenses in the league, and he looked terrible against them. And Tennessee kept him in check for almost all but one carry.

And YES, I watched my favorite Auburn team... who had been shredded by lesser backs all year long... stuff your Heisman favorite, and that sealed my decision on Mark Ingram's abilities.

I'm telling you... even on his own team, Trent Richardson runs harder, has more speed, runs with more determination, and has an uncanny ability to always fall forward.

Mark Ingram benefitted from an ass-load of touches (carries, direct snaps, receptions) on a very good team. But if he went down, they wouldn't have missed a beat with Trent Richardson in the exact same role.

[ozzie]

I watched probably 7 games of lefevour this year and prob 20 overall and I really think he is that good. Someone will be so pleasantly surprised with him

No one wants to recognize these MAC QB's when it comes to heisman talk, but I was saying from about week 7 that Dan LeFevour would have gotten my vote.

He'll be down here for the GMAC bowl, and probably again for the Senior Bowl, and yeah, I expect him to go high in the draft.

[Snoogans]

I'm not bringing up the Suh thing as a continuation of the previous discussion but why is Gerald McCoy now considered the better pro ( based on what I heard this weekend ) ?

I heard Golic say that he thought Suh used his hands too much and that he wouldn't get away w/ that as much in the NFL but haven't really heard anything else.

this I havent heard. Scouts inc has Suh as the # 2 guy in the draft. I havent heard anyone put him below McCoy

[Snoogans]

No one wants to recognize these MAC QB's when it comes to heisman talk, but I was saying from about week 7 that Dan LeFevour would have gotten my vote.

He'll be down here for the GMAC bowl, and probably again for the Senior Bowl, and yeah, I expect him to go high in the draft.

thats the crazy thing. Some boards have him as like the 8th QB, ive heard late second all the way to 4th and i havent heard anyone even mention late first round. i cant believe it

[JimBeam]

And Gerhart only managed 121 yards against a Wash St team that had 1 win.

You could counter w/ Ingram's 56 yards against FIU.

But then there's Gerhart's 113 yards against San Jose St.

And so on.

Between the 2 they both had big games and some so so ones.

The PAC10 being bad hurt him and Ingram benefited from playing in a league sending 9 or10 teams to bowls.

[Snoogans]

And Gerhart only managed 121 yards against a Wash St team that had 1 win.

You could counter w/ Ingram's 56 yards against FIU.

But then there's Gerhart's 113 yards against San Jose St.

And so on.

Between the 2 they both had big games and some so so ones.

The PAC10 being bad hurt him and Ingram benefited from playing in a league sending 9 or10 teams to bowls.

just you making these comparisons proves that neither was very outstanding

[ozzie]

thats the crazy thing. Some boards have him as like the 8th QB, ive heard late second all the way to 4th and i havent heard anyone even mention late first round. i cant believe it

He's the type that will benefit greatly from being coached by NFL staffs in the Senior Bowl. I expect his stock to rise after that and the combine's and more exposure.

[JimBeam]

this I havent heard. Scouts inc has Suh as the # 2 guy in the draft. I havent heard anyone put him below McCoy

I heard it on ESPN Radio this weekend.

Granted it was only 2 guys ( Ryan Ressilo maybe one of them ) and doesn't make it a trend but it was the 1st I had heard of it.

[Snoogans]

i hope this pastes right: (the star means its someone who would have to leave early)


SCOUTS INC.'S TOP 32

Player Pos. School Grade

1. Eric Berry* S Tennessee 97
2. Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska 97
3. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 96
4. Joe Haden* CB Florida 96
5. Derrick Morgan* DE Georgia Tech 96
6. Russell Okung OT Okla. State 96
7. Rolando McClain* ILB Alabama 96
8. Trent Williams OT Oklahoma 95
9. Jake Locker* QB Washington 95
10. C.J. Spiller RB Clemson 95
11. Sam Bradford* QB Oklahoma 94
12. Earl Thomas* S Texas 94
13. Dez Bryant* WR Okla. State 94
14. Anthony Davis OT Rutgers 94 I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THIS. HE IS LAZY AS FUCK
15. Navorro Bowman* OLB Penn State 94
16. Sergio Kindle OLB Texas 93
17. Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida 93
18. Taylor Mays S USC 93
19. Bruce Carter* OLB North Carolina 92
20. Brandon Spikes ILB Florida 92
21. Carlos Dunlap* DE Florida 92
22. Jahvid Best* RB California 92
23. Jermaine Gresham TE Oklahoma 92
24. Bruce Campbell OT Maryland 92
25. Patrick Robinson CB Florida State 92
26. Golden Tate* WR Notre Dame 91
27. Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa 91
28. Jimmy Clausen* QB Notre Dame 90
29. Arthur Jones DT Syracuse 90
30. Jonathan Dwyer* RB Georgia Tech 90
31. Vladimir Ducasse G UMass-Amherst 90
32. Ricky Sapp DE Clemson 90

[JimBeam]

See they have Clausen way down there so I don't know how he could be cosidered a top 5 pick.

Unless somebody really wanted him as their QB why make the reach ?

[hammersavage]

See they have Clausen way down there so I don't know how he could be cosidered a top 5 pick.

Unless somebody really wanted him as their QB why make the reach ?

well, the 3rd qb. and now the 2nd. and that's if Bradford is healthy.

[JimBeam]

If Ingram isn't the best running back in the nation... and isn't the best offensive player... in the experts opinions, when looking at each position and each side of the ball...

...then how else do you justify him as being voted the best player? Other than his team's ranking?

Ozzie, there's been some disagreement between the 4 awards a few times :

Year Maxwell Camp O'Brien Heisman
2000 Brees Heupel Weinke Weinke
2001 Dorsey Crouch Crouch Crouch
2002 Johnson Johnson Banks Palmer
2003 Manning Fitzgerald White White
2004 White Leinart White Leinart
2005 Young Bush Young Bush
2006 Quinn Smith Smith Smith
2007 Tebow McFadden Tebow Tebow
2008 Tebow McCoy Bradford Bradford
2009 McCoy McCoy McCoy Ingram

You're not suggesting that Brad Banks should've won the Heisman in 2002 are you ?

These voters of the O'Brein award thought he was a better QB than Carson Palmer.

That White was more deserving of the award than Leinart in 2004 ?

There was major disagreement in 2008 w/ Tebow being the best " all around player ", McCoy being the player of the year and Bradford being the best QB.

So it's obvious the voters don't think along the same lines for each award.

PS - There's apparently not an easy way to paste Excel data as it is into a thread.

[ozzie]

Ozzie, there's been some disagreement between the 4 awards a few times :

Year Maxwell Camp O'Brien Heisman
2000 Brees Heupel Weinke Weinke
2001 Dorsey Crouch Crouch Crouch
2002 Johnson Johnson Banks Palmer
2003 Manning Fitzgerald White White
2004 White Leinart White Leinart
2005 Young Bush Young Bush
2006 Quinn Smith Smith Smith
2007 Tebow McFadden Tebow Tebow
2008 Tebow McCoy Bradford Bradford
2009 McCoy McCoy McCoy Ingram

You're not suggesting that Brad Banks should've won the Heisman in 2002 are you ?

These voters of the O'Brein award thought he was a better QB than Carson Palmer.

That White was more deserving of the award than Leinart in 2004 ?

There was major disagreement in 2008 w/ Tebow being the best " all around player ", McCoy being the player of the year and Bradford being the best QB.

So it's obvious the voters don't think along the same lines for each award.

PS - There's apparently not an easy way to paste Excel data as it is into a thread.

If Palmer wasn't even considered the best QB that year, then no, he shouldn't have won the heisman. Perhaps... and I know this is crazy... maybe NO QB should have won it that year.

And this year, Ingram wasn't the best running back.

Am I saying it should have gone to the best running back (Gerhart) this year? NO, but if you are going to give it to a running back, it would have made more sense if Gerhart had won it.

My point is that, if the Heisman is the most recognizable award for the best college football player... then the winner should at least be recognized as the best at his fucking position, and that the voters need to quit looking at the goddamned rankings when they vote... and look at BOTH sides of the ball.

And, YES, even the Maxwell and Camp awards are biased towards Offensive players, just like the heisman. Doesn't make them right either, but I'd say they do a better job at awarding the best offensive player than the heisman does.

Go back and look at some of the Chuck Bednarik or Bronko Nagurski winners from those years... or even Thorpe, Butkus or Lombardi winners.

[JimBeam]

If Palmer wasn't even considered the best QB that year, then no, he shouldn't have won the heisman. Perhaps... and I know this is crazy... maybe NO QB should have won it that year.

And this year, Ingram wasn't the best running back.

Am I saying it should have gone to the best running back (Gerhart) this year? NO, but if you are going to give it to a running back, it would have made more sense if Gerhart had won it.

My point is that, if the Heisman is the most recognizable award for the best college football player... then the winner should at least be recognized as the best at his fucking position, and that the voters need to quit looking at the goddamned rankings when they vote... and look at BOTH sides of the ball.

And, YES, even the Maxwell and Camp awards are biased towards Offensive players, just like the heisman. Doesn't make them right either, but I'd say they do a better job at awarding the best offensive player than the heisman does.

Go back and look at some of the Chuck Bednarik or Bronko Nagurski winners from those years... or even Thorpe, Butkus or Lombardi winners.

The only problem w/ that is your giving more credebility to the voters that picked Gerhart as the best RB when maybe they got it wrong.

I think both RBs were very similar and either could've won the award so I don't think you can look at one set of voters and say " See they said he shouldn't have won the Heisman. "

I'm not sure who votes for the RB award but I know some of the others were a combination of coaches and sports folks. Some of the sports people probably vote for both awards.

I think the reason we'll never see a complete list of Heisman voters is because they don't want schools reaching out directly to them and pushing their candidates and maybe bribing them in some way.

[ozzie]

The only problem w/ that is your giving more credebility to the voters that picked Gerhart as the best RB when maybe they got it wrong.

I think both RBs were very similar and either could've won the award so I don't think you can look at one set of voters and say " See they said he shouldn't have won the Heisman. "

I'm not sure who votes for the RB award but I know some of the others were a combination of coaches and sports folks. Some of the sports people probably vote for both awards.

Exactly. A lot of differing opinions on who was the "best running back", which meant that none was that dominant.

If Ingram was SO dominant at HIS OWN POSITION, as to be deserving of the fucking Heisman, surely the Doak Walker Award voters would have noticed this.

Same with the QB's. Tebow and McCoy were recognized as having good years on very good teams. Nothing spectacular.

But, across the board, there was NO question who the most dominant defensive player was.

Face it... in years like this, when there are no clear, outstanding OFFENSIVE players, the majority of heisman voters, especially those from regions that don't have finalists, tend to vote for the "best offensive player from the highest ranked team", which makes it almost meaningless anymore.

[JimBeam]

I was under the impression that they had video for this.

Sources: South Florida Coach Jim Leavitt Struck Player

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/12/14/sources-south-floridas-leavitt-struck-player/

[Snoogans]

I was under the impression that they had video for this.



http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/12/14/sources-south-floridas-leavitt-struck-player/

ESPN is sayin the kids dad backed off and supports Levitt. They dont know what the fuck is going on

[SP1!]

how fuckin funny is that. HOW DOES INGRAM WIN THE HEISMAN AND NOT HIS POSITION AWARD???

i think its more that the award for most outstanding player went to a guy who wasnt good enough to win a single award, including the ones for best at his position, nevermind nationally
I know you keep posting about how you cant believe this but you do realize the doak walker award is given only to players who are a year away from graduation, that instantly makes that part of your argument invalid.
on schedule to graduate within one year of students in their eligibility classification. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doak_Walker_Award)

thats the crazy thing. Some boards have him as like the 8th QB, ive heard late second all the way to 4th and i havent heard anyone even mention late first round. i cant believe it
Quality of competition, it always doesnt mean a lot most of the time, but sometimes it speaks volumes and after andre ware no NFL wants to be burned like that again.

Also Suh may end up being a bosworth type NFL bust, bosworth used his hands too much as well then have problems adapting to the pro style game, he needs to go to a team with good coaches and not to some shit team like bosworth did. That are kids problems most of the time, they get away with shit in college that will get them punished in the pros and they have no one to teach them the correct way.

[SP1!]

College Football Playoffs Simulations (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls09/bracket)

[Snoogans]

College Football Playoffs Simulations (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls09/bracket)

the first time I got Iowa over Penn State. The second time I got TCU over BYU. I dont fuckin think so

[Snoogans]

i find this list hilarious:

School Championships
Princeton 28
Yale 27
Michigan 22
Notre Dame 21
Oklahoma 17
USC 17
Alabama 16
Ohio State 13
Harvard 12
Nebraska 11
Pittsburgh 11
Miami 9
Texas 9
Florida State 7
LSU 7
Minnesota 7
Penn State 7
Tennessee 7
Georgia Tech 6
Michigan State 6
Pennsylvania 6
Army 5
Florida 5
Georgia 5
California 5
Cornell 5
Illinois 5
Auburn 4
Iowa 4
Washington 4
Lafayette 3
Mississippi 3
SMU 3
Texas A&M 3
Arkansas 2
Arizona State 2
Chicago 2
Maryland 2
Missouri 2
Stanford 2
TCU 2
BYU 1
Centre 1
Clemson 1
Colgate 1
Colorado 1
Columbia 1
Dartmouth 1
Detroit 1
Kentucky 1
Navy 1
Purdue 1
Rutgers 1
Syracuse 1
UCLA 1
Utah 1
Wisconsin 1
W&J 1

[ozzie]

i find this list hilarious:

School Championships

In what sports? And over what time period?

I'm assuming with Princeton and Yale being at the top... this goes way back.

If you add them all up, it comes to 351, so this can't be just for football...

[Snoogans]

In what sports? And over what time period?

I'm assuming with Princeton and Yale being at the top... this goes way back.

If you add them all up, it comes to 351, so this can't be just for football...

it is for just football. Official records include all championships starting with 1869 and include all co champions. They did that quite a bit apparently

[Snoogans]

The national title count listed below is a culmination of all championship awarded since 1869, regardless of consensus or non-consensus status, as listed in the table above according to the selectors deemed to be major as listed in the Official NCAA Division I Football Records Book (minus the Harris Interactive poll, 2005-present, that is listed but does not conduct a final poll or award a championship).

[Snoogans]

ok sorry. Thats what the schools claim to have

[Snoogans]

School ↓ Championships ↓ Seasons ↓
Notre Dame 8 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1966, 1973, 1977, 1988
USC 7 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974 (UPI), 1978 (UPI), 2003 (AP), 2004 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Oklahoma 7 1950, 1955, 1956, 1974, 1975, 1985, 2000 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Alabama 7 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973 (UPI), 1978, 1979, 1992
Ohio State 5 1942, 1954, 1957 (UPI), 1968, 2002 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Nebraska 5 1970, 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997 (USAT)
Miami 5 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Texas 4 1963, 1969, 1970 (UPI), 2005 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Minnesota 4 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
LSU 3 1958, 2003 (BCS/USAT), 2007 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Florida 3 1996, 2006 (BCS/AP/USAT), 2008 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Florida State 2 1993, 1999 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Tennessee 2 1951, 1998 (BCS/AP/USAT)
Michigan 2 1948, 1997 (AP)
Penn State 2 1982, 1986
Pittsburgh 2 1937, 1976
Michigan State 2 1952, 1965 (UPI)
Army 2 1944, 1945
Colorado 1 1990
Georgia Tech 1 1990 (UPI)
BYU 1 1984
Clemson 1 1981
Georgia 1 1980
Auburn 1 1957
UCLA 1 1954 (UPI)
Maryland 1 1953
Syracuse 1 1959
Texas A&M 1 1939
TCU 1 1938
Washington 1 1991


this is since 1936 based on the poll champ

[ozzie]

it is for just football. Official records include all championships starting with 1869 and include all co champions. They did that quite a bit apparently

2008 - 1869 = 139 x 2 = 278... but there's 351 listed...

They must count every "publication" that crowns a mythical national champion.

I know in 2004, Auburn was the National Champion....

...according to the Eufaula (Alabama) Tribune.

There's also been a lot of "retroactively awarded a national titles" handed out by several computer rating systems, including the College Football Research Center which is a component of the BCS. Auburn's 1913 team was awarded one that way, but the University doesn't claim it. They really only claim 1957.

It's a big thing down here to take apart Bama's "12 Mythical National Championships"... just to see how many were awarded years later, or where they were crowned, then when on to lose their bowl game.

There are about 3 that are truly legit... 1961, 1979 and 1992.

The most hysterical is 1941, when they didn't even win the SEC, and the AP had them at #20... but some "Houlgate" publication gave it to them, so, by Gawd, the Bammers claim it!

[Snoogans]

2008 - 1869 = 139 x 2 = 278... but there's 351 listed...

They must count every "publication" that crowns a mythical national champion.

I know in 2004, Auburn was the National Champion....

...according to the Eufaula (Alabama) Tribune.

There's also been a lot of "retroactively awarded a national titles" handed out by several computer rating systems, including the College Football Research Center which is a component of the BCS. Auburn's 1913 team was awarded one that way, but the University doesn't claim it. They really only claim 1957.

It's a big thing down here to take apart Bama's "12 Mythical National Championships"... just to see how many were awarded years later, or where they were crowned, then when on to lose their bowl game.

There are about 3 that are truly legit... 1961, 1979 and 1992.

The most hysterical is 1941, when they didn't even win the SEC, and the AP had them at #20... but some "Houlgate" publication gave it to them, so, by Gawd, the Bammers claim it!

apparently there is a list of "major" college publications kept by the NCAA. I think its all the ones those publications named as champions, even if that was 7 different teams in 1 year

[ozzie]

School ↓ Championships ↓ Seasons ↓
Alabama 7 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973 (UPI), 1978, 1979, 1992


I'm tellin' ya... these dumbasses claim TWELVE by Gawd!!!

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/43489/bamas_full_of_balogne.jpg

http://www.coolbobbleheads.com/giii/2005/alabamanationalchampsjacket2.jpg

Just wait... if they manage to beat Texas, you'll be hearing about how this is number THIRTEEN!!!

1941 - Complete farce... see above
1964 - Bama lost to Texas in the Orange Bowl, but were crowned before the bowl game
1965 - Come on Bama fans... if you're going to claim 1964... then you can't claim 1965, because that year, you weren't crowned before the bowl games when you were #4... but you might have been deserving after #1, 2 & 3 all lost their bowl games. It's gotta be either ONE OR THE OTHER!
1973 - Bama lost to Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl, , but were crowned before the bowl game
1978 - Kinda sketchy... USC beat Bama... but then lost a conference game. They both finished with one loss... Coaches poll gave it to USC, and I agree.

Probably 7 legit, and they should be damn proud to have won 7... but that's not enough for them.

[KnoxHarrington]

Here's your list of NCAA Division I Football champions:







Yes, there's nothing there. There never has been one.

[SP1!]

the first time I got Iowa over Penn State. The second time I got TCU over BYU. I dont fuckin think so

Yeah I love these people that think those teams can run over a NC bracket, when you play quality every week people get injured more, there is no way a tcu/bsu makes it out of the second round. I give rutgers a better shot and Im not a huge rutgers supporter......

[Snoogans]

Yeah I love these people that think those teams can run over a NC bracket, when you play quality every week people get injured more, there is no way a tcu/bsu makes it out of the second round. I give rutgers a better shot and Im not a huge rutgers supporter......

Rutgers would win the tourney by 100 points a game. Tom Savage would throw for 90 TDs and Sanu would catch for 4000 yards. Its so unfair they get left out

[SP1!]

Rutgers would win the tourney by 100 points a game. Tom Savage would throw for 90 TDs and Sanu would catch for 4000 yards. Its so unfair they get left out

I know, they are a scary team!!!!!

[JimBeam]

Eight players suspended from MSU team

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4704695

This is old news now as far as dates go ( although I don't recall reading about it here ) but I heard them talking about it on Rivlas the other day and never knew the story.

One of the kids' dad was a boxer and he had some kind of line in defense of his son along the lines of " Well w/ me being a boxer if my son had gone in there and laid hands on anybody they'd be in the hospital. "

What a clown.

I think it was Mark Dell.

One of these kids, maybe Glenn Winston, already served 4 months in jail for assaulting an MSU hockey player.

Another kid was asked to tale a leave from the team for some point in time and then was allowed back.

By the way on the subject of Rivals do any of you listen to Bill King's show ?

He's one of the best out there if not the best.

I like him because he plays no favorites and is as fair and balanced as they come.

[SP1!]

Its amazing what people will invite to their school for money and to win games, whats getting sad is that the parents are now defending these shit heads when in the past they would tell their kids to shut up and listen to the coach. The nation is turning into big babies.

[JimBeam]

Watching the replay of the FCS title game on ESPNU.

Not a bad game.

Montana has a few pretty good players.

One WR had 100+ yards in the 1st quarter alone.

A RB was making some nice moves and cutting on a dime.

[Snoogans]

this has been a good game. You fucks better be watchin

[Suspect Chin]

28-17 is a good game?

[JimBeam]

Actually watching the Saints game but that's been a mess so might need to switch a bit.

I did watch some of the Wyoming/Fresno St game.

[Snoogans]

Actually watching the Saints game but that's been a mess so might need to switch a bit.

I did watch some of the Wyoming/Fresno St game.

that was a great game. Rutgers game has been good too

[JimBeam]

How'd that Wyoming/Fresno St game end ?

Last I saw it was in OT I think.

[Snoogans]

How'd that Wyoming/Fresno St game end ?

Last I saw it was in OT I think.

fresno had first and goal at the 1 and was stuffed 4 times in teh first OT, wyoming missed a FG, then Wyoming scored and stopped fresno in the 2nd OT and won 35-28

[Snoogans]

watch the second half fools.

Ok ill be back later, have guests

[JimBeam]

Wow, sorry I switched that off.

I thought it was gonna be over when Fresno St went up by 11 but saw the Wyoming TD and 2 point conversion.

Switch over and didn't see anything after that.

How do you get stopped 4 times on 1st and goal from the 1 ?

Did one of the losses knock them back further ?

Man if you're a Wyoming defender and you make that kinda stand and then watch as the kicker misses a FG it's gotta be tough to get up for the next OT.

Guess they did what they needed to do.

[Snoogans]

Wow, sorry I switched that off.

I thought it was gonna be over when Fresno St went up by 11 but saw the Wyoming TD and 2 point conversion.

Switch over and didn't see anything after that.

How do you get stopped 4 times on 1st and goal from the 1 ?

Did one of the losses knock them back further ?

Man if you're a Wyoming defender and you make that kinda stand and then watch as the kicker misses a FG it's gotta be tough to get up for the next OT.

Guess they did what they needed to do.
no. Stuffed run, stuffed run, stuffed QB sneak and then stuffed run

[JimBeam]

Thanks.

By the way what the hell is Beef O'Bradys ?

LOL

[Snoogans]

Thanks.

By the way what the hell is Beef O'Bradys ?

LOL

i wondered the same thing. I think a florida rest chain or something

anyway back to my rutgers party.

[Snoogans]

the future looks bright in Piscataway

[SP1!]

Rutgers would win the tourney by 100 points a game. Tom Savage would throw for 90 TDs and Sanu would catch for 4000 yards. Its so unfair they get left out

I know, they are a scary team!!!!!
SEEEEEEEEEEEEE I tol' YA's...........Rutgers for national champs!!!!!


J/K, nice game though, congrats snoogans I know you will sleep happy tonight and wake up with a hangover tomorrow.

Thanks.

By the way what the hell is Beef O'Bradys ?

LOL
Its a chain of sports bars in florida and some SE states I think, average food, average beer, didnt know they made enough money to sponsor a bowl game though, damn.

LOL, after looking it appears that I have some beef o bradys not very far away from me, who knew?

[razorboy]

I'm sure UCiF is already making excuses.

[led37zep]

I'll be the guy at the rosebowl wearing the green and yellow shirt.

Keep an eye out for me.

[Snoogans]

SEEEEEEEEEEEEE I tol' YA's...........Rutgers for national champs!!!!!


J/K, nice game though, congrats snoogans I know you will sleep happy tonight and wake up with a hangover tomorrow.



wow. I appreciate that. I will sleep well and I will be hungover. I dont wanna get too excited but they played fuckin great and alot of the guys making big plays will be here next year. The future looks bright.

And Dammaso Munoz is fuckin fast, holy shit. Ive watched 4 years of him and never saw him run like tonight. Tonight was so awesome its gonna end up bad, cause now all I am is pumped for next year and i gotta wait fuckin 9 months

[spoon]

I'm sure UCiF is already making excuses.

Like what, playing in a shitty bowl WAYYY too early. Sorry, bowl games are the biggest crock of shit going in sports today...especially the 15th tier ones like this.

[Snoogans]

Like what, playing in a shitty bowl WAYYY too early. Sorry, bowl games are the biggest crock of shit going in sports today...especially the 15th tier ones like this.

so then dont watch em. And the time had no bearing on UCF. It was 2 weeks after the season, they were done with finals, and it was an hour from the school