don't want to give that word power

[West.Coast.Skippy]

at one point early in today's show fez says he doesn't use the word faggot because he doesn't want to give that word any power. he doesn't want others to use that word.

but couldn't it be that avoiding a word and wishing others not to use it does - in fact - give that word power? and how about many gays retaking the word 'queer' to de-stigmatize it?

do you think fez might be more empowered if he did use the word or at least didn't least it phase him?

of course there is a current racial analog to this same debate.

[lleeder]

I think we should use the word as it was intended. To mock those being wimpy or uncool. I'll start.


Man you aint no faggot you posted exactly what was on your mind.

[Gvac]

I think I've been using the word since I was in pre-school.

I know all the politically correct people will explain how that doesn't make it right, but it's ridiculous to let any one group decide all of a sudden that they don't like a certain word and everyone has to adhere to their ban of its usage.

Not long ago the homosexual community took umbrage with the word "queer" before they co-opted it for themselves.

THAT'S how you take power away from a word; not by trying to ban it.

Know what I'm sayin', nigga? :wink:

[jab]

I think I've been using the word since I was in pre-school.

I know all the politically correct people will explain how that doesn't make it right, but it's ridiculous to let any one group decide all of a sudden that they don't like a certain word and everyone has to adhere to their ban of its usage.

Not long ago the homosexual community took umbrage with the word "queer" before they co-opted it for themselves.

THAT'S how you take power away from a word; not by trying to ban it.

Know what I'm sayin', nigga? :wink:

dont be such a gvac.

[razorboy]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/razorboy_/sustain_sticks.jpg

[HBox]

His use or non use of the word has little to do with taking away its power. It has to do with the reaction to the word. His using the word in certain non-pejorative ways could help but it has more to do with not reacting to it in the way those who use it to hurt would want Fez and his peers to react.

[Rorschach]

faggots

[lleeder]

your dad would be proud

[razorboy]

I'm going outside to smoke a fag.

[BlackSpider]

faggots

Perfect...

[Gvac]

your dad would be proud

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[West.Coast.Skippy]

His use or non use of the word has little to do with taking away its power. It has to do with the reaction to the word. His using the word in certain non-pejorative ways could help but it has more to do with not reacting to it in the way those who use it to hurt would want Fez and his peers to react.

i agree with you, that is absolutely the root issue. do you think most or any words have some intrinsic meaning? or for every word do we build our own, personal meaning?

i don't know where i read this - it was a while ago - but i read about someone in england in very hot water for using the word 'paki' in a public way. apparently this is very offensive. i think i'd only heard the word before on a cop drama or something and had no idea it was such a charged term.

is there really any logical, dispassionate argument in favor of "taboo-ing" words?

[jab]

i cant wait until we get past using words, they are slowing us down as a species.

[britneypablo]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

[TooLowBrow]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

will.i.am

[spankyfrank]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

you get a Gold Star today!:lol:

[jab]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

:lol::lol::lol:

[Gvac]

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.

I'm with you, Mr. Chuang.

[RhinoinMN]

the world is full of Marty McFlys. thats the problem.

[razorboy]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

Earl.

[RhinoinMN]

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?


i thought that was a juvenile black person.

[Brad in Bama]

Yeah, I think he's got it backwards.

[Juliejulez]

I don't like when Fez gets all pissy and starts saying Fuck on the air.
He hates the word fag coming from our mouth.
I hate the word FUCK coming out of his mouth!
Some nerves reclaiming himself a Lutheran...that fag.

[RhinoinMN]

I don't like when Fez gets all pissy and starts saying Fuck on the air.
He hates the word fag coming from our mouth.
I hate the word FUCK coming out of his mouth!
Some nerves reclaiming himself a Lutheran...that fag.

its an xl channel.

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

I think I've been using the word since I was in pre-school.

I know all the politically correct people will explain how that doesn't make it right, but it's ridiculous to let any one group decide all of a sudden that they don't like a certain word and everyone has to adhere to their ban of its usage.

Not long ago the homosexual community took umbrage with the word "queer" before they co-opted it for themselves.

THAT'S how you take power away from a word; not by trying to ban it.

Know what I'm sayin', nigga? :wink:

Yeah I feel you my nigga.

<font color="deeppink"> is there a word that encompasses someone who is black and gay? like maybe Niggot?

Or, nonexistent. Everyone knows that there are no gay black people.

[razorboy]

Or, nonexistent. Everyone knows that there are no gay black people.

They call it down-low.

[jab]

Or, nonexistent. Everyone knows that there are no gay black people.

lamar!

[britneypablo]

Yeah I feel you my nigga.



Or, nonexistent. Everyone knows that there are no gay black people.

<font color="deeppink"> obviously you dont frequent the gay bars like all the other straight white girls around here

[Charlie_Don't_Surf]

<font color="deeppink"> obviously you dont frequent the gay bars like all the other straight white girls around here


A bit counter-productive don't you think?

[Serpico1103]

at one point early in today's show fez says he doesn't use the word faggot because he doesn't want to give that word any power. he doesn't want others to use that word.
but couldn't it be that avoiding a word and wishing others not to use it does - in fact - give that word power? and how about many gays retaking the word 'queer' to de-stigmatize it?
do you think fez might be more empowered if he did use the word or at least didn't least it phase him?
of course there is a current racial analog to this same debate.

I recently watched a Richard Pryor stand up and he used the word nigger like it was nothing. It had more power or meaning beyond referencing a black person. Who is the ass that started the trend the other way, to demonize the word again.

Also, why does Fez's opinion matter. As a white person I wouldn't speak for blacks, so why would Fez claim to speak for gays?

[led37zep]

He hates the word fag coming from our mouth.
I hate the word FUCK coming out of his mouth!


thats a lot of coming.

[D isf or Dangerous]

Its a word. Last time I checked we could still use those in this country to express ourselves. I don't run around screaming it for kicks, but I have used it while joking around with friends. Since I know how to be a civil person I dont generally use it around gay people unless we are actually friends enough to avoid any confusion.

Everyone has said this word, and no matter what you do people still will. Fez needs to really just get over it.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i never understand how a word that just means "derogatory slur" is offensive. Like, "The N Word" only means "slur for black person" and "Faggot" only means "slur for a gay". It doesn't mean anything else...so whats the big deal? I've had people try to explain this to me a million times and i just don't get it

I can understand if someone is overweight and you call them "a fat fuck" how that is offensive, because its personal, they are fat, and being fat is shameful. But in 2009 i don't think a black person has any reason to be ashamed for being black and i don't think a gay person should be ashamed of being gay..so why would calling them that be offensive? The word only means what they are. It only devalues them if they believe they are devalued

[Serpico1103]

i never understand how a word that just means "derogatory slur" is offensive. Like, "The N Word" only means "slur for black person" and "Faggot" only means "slur for a gay". It doesn't mean anything else...so whats the big deal? I've had people try to explain this to me a million times and i just don't get it
I can understand if someone is overweight and you call them "a fat fuck" how that is offensive, because its personal, they are fat, and being fat is shameful. But in 2009 i don't think a black person has any reason to be ashamed for being black and i don't think a gay person should be ashamed of being gay..so why would calling them that be offensive? The word only means what they are. It only devalues them if they believe they are devalued

I think it has to do with the fact that by using the offensive word you are claiming superiority over the person. By calling someone a nigger, you are saying "Nigger, know your place. I am white, above you, and there is nothing you can do about it."
So, the aforementioned "n word" punches you in the mouth to show you that he can do something about it.

It's showing a lack of respect. You should know the person doesn't want to hear that word. By saying it, you are challenging them.

All BS, but that is the rationale I believe.

[TheMojoPin]

i never understand how a word that just means "derogatory slur" is offensive. Like, "The N Word" only means "slur for black person" and "Faggot" only means "slur for a gay". It doesn't mean anything else...so whats the big deal? I've had people try to explain this to me a million times and i just don't get it

I can understand if someone is overweight and you call them "a fat fuck" how that is offensive, because its personal, they are fat, and being fat is shameful. But in 2009 i don't think a black person has any reason to be ashamed for being black and i don't think a gay person should be ashamed of being gay..so why would calling them that be offensive? The word only means what they are. It only devalues them if they believe they are devalued

They are "devalued." Blacks, by and large, have never been treated as anything besides "surpuls people" over the history of this country. That hasn't changed.

What you're suggesting is just an extension of that, by basically saying that the problem is on or the fault of the minority and that they have they're the ones with the power to reverse the social/political/economic minimization directed towards them. Well, no, they don't. Your expectations are unrealistic.

[stormy1065]

the word is only offensive if you take offense to it. its all subjective to your own personal experiences. everyone needs to quit playing this political correction horseshit cause all it does is let people hide their real feeling. i rather know someone's true opinion that way i might be able to change it. a least i'll know what i'm dealing with.

[TheMojoPin]

the word is only offensive if you take offense to it. its all subjective to your own personal experiences. everyone needs to quit playing this political correction horseshit cause all it does is let people hide their real feeling. i rather know someone's true opinion that way i might be able to change it. a least i'll know what i'm dealing with.

This line of thought is basically an excuse to shirk out of personal responsibility by saying that nothing one says is really ever their fault. You don't need to know someone's opinion to know that a certain select few words are best avoided. That's just common sense.

[fezfez]

My point was, when someone like Perez Hilton uses the word and then describes it as the most horrible word he could think of, it shows it bothers him and other gay people. That gives it more power.

[GreatAmericanZero]

They are "devalued." Blacks, by and large, have never been treated as anything besides "surpuls people" over the history of this country. That hasn't changed.

What you're suggesting is just an extension of that, by basically saying that the problem is on or the fault of the minority and that they have they're the ones with the power to reverse the social/political/economic minimization directed towards them. Well, no, they don't. Your expectations are unrealistic.

your expectations are unrealistic. That people would just stop using a hurtful word when they want to hurt people? It is on the minority to not be bothered by that word. The minority should evolve above a word instead of expecting other people to make their lives more comfortable

seriously, if you are a person who is offended by a word's existence, i think you are a weak person. Is it my opinion? sure, but i can't see it another way

[led37zep]

My point was, when someone like Perez Hilton uses the word and then describes it as the most horrible word he could think of, it shows it bothers him and other gay people. That gives it more power.

As a straight white male its really hard to relate to having one word that bothers me and passes judgement on my entire group. (successful, sir, upper management...I hear them all) I think that's why you hear a lot of "its just a word", "get over it" from the other guys on the show and the callers.

However I do find it interesting how a lot of minority groups seem to use the same words amongst themselves that they hate to be called by an outsider. Does it really help all that much and take the power away from the slur? Who knows. It seems like some sort of unspoken self defense move to me.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

So if we heard the word faggot all the time, used everyday, 99% of the people hearing the word wouldn't grow bored with it and generally care less and less about its content, much like how any other name/word experiences pejorative/ameliorative dilution over extended time and use? I wonder why that is.

And if the word isn't being tossed around, it's being thought loudly. The current German government tolerates the existence of a Neo-Nazi political party not because they think like the Neo-Nazi party, but because they know it's wiser to keep these kinds of people in public rather than have them go underground. If we dictate how and what people say, their racism, prejudice and all other vices will simply be under the surface and will spread uncontrollably because there will be no public disgust to discourage their thoughts.

Anyone who wants to ban the word faggot is a faggot.

edit: I quoted Hbox initially but re-read his post and found that he wasn't saying what I thought he was at all. I stand by my opinion, but sorry for misreading ya H.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

As a straight white male its really hard to relate to having one word that bothers me and passes judgement on my entire group. (successful, sir, upper management...I hear them all) I think that's why you hear a lot of "its just a word", "get over it" from the other guys on the show and the callers.

However I do find it interesting how a lot of minority groups seem to use the same words amongst themselves that they hate to be called by an outsider. Does it really help all that much and take the power away from the slur? Who knows. It seems like some sort of unspoken self defense move to me.

It devalues the word's hate value amongst themselves, while exponentially promoting justifiability to a violent over-reaction when used by a member of a group that had in generations past oppressed them.

[ToiletCrusher]

The only word with any real power is "awesome".

[CofyCrakCocaine]

The only word with any real power is "awesome".

Fag hag.

just sayin'

[ToiletCrusher]

Fag hag.

just sayin'

touche.

[kratos]

It's unfortunate but even with all the rights America can grant and all the restrictions on words, people still won't like you if they don't like you. Black people have rights and we really don't hear any slurs thrown about in public, but I can tell when people hate us. In fact, the most hateful people probably have never uttered a slur at all.

As far as giving words power, it's like being a man. It is more about what you do than what you say. Say "good day' and walk away. Don't give anyone the power to force you into a rant.

[dickydean]

i thought that was a juvenile black person.
I belive your thinking of Niglet.

[TheMojoPin]

your expectations are unrealistic. That people would just stop using a hurtful word when they want to hurt people? It is on the minority to not be bothered by that word. The minority should evolve above a word instead of expecting other people to make their lives more comfortable

And MY expectations are unrealistic? You're basically a shining example of the suckers over this nation's history that buys into the hype that one can blame the problems of minorities totally on minorities themselves. It's so convenient to look at the problems of the oppressed as being created by the oppressed themselves. It is only through that kind of biased non-logic could someone possibly think that an oppressed group has the "power" to destroy societal traits and behavior designed specifically to minimize and marginalize them as citizens and as people.

seriously, if you are a person who is offended by a word's existence, i think you are a weak person. Is it my opinion? sure, but i can't see it another way

Shocker, a straight American white male can't possibly fathom how certain words would effect someone given that they're designed to denigrate YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING EXISTENCE. I'm not talking about generic insults here; I'm talking about words that more often than not when used mean that person being called them is less than a human being. You may think that that's being "weak," but you have absolutely nothing your life even remotely close to that. There's no term for you that exists that has the wieght and impact and history that completely dismisses your worth as a human being.