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boosterp
06-19-2009, 09:53 PM
I must stress that this is a hypothetical question.

Back ground:

You are a property owner in a state that favors gun laws and property ownership. Your gate is closed, you have no trespassing signs posted before the gate, and the fence is mended. It is near dusk, there is enough light that you can see clearly but only have another hour before it gets dark. You happen to be busy doing something like collecting firewood when you hear something motorized nearing. You look up and rounding a curve on your dirt road is a 4 wheeler with the rider wearing a motocross helmet. You know your neighbors so you know it is not one of them even though the 4 wheeler is blue.

Situation:
You grab your rifle, knowing you are a good shot thanks to training and fire one shot towards the 4 wheeler while aiming at a tire. You notice you missed the tire but the 4 wheeler is still moving in your direction so you quickly take aim, fire another shot hitting a tire (you presume), and causing the wheels to suddenly turn throwing the rider. The rider gets up, yelling obscenities and walks in your direction still with helmet on. You fire one more shot knocking the person down and see the helmet bouncing across the ground.

You call the sheriff's office of this county and the first to show is a deputy who was just 10 minutes away. but prior you observed the person you shot get up and call on a cell phone, but not approach you anymore because you have a rifle pointing in their direction. This person gets off the cell and sits on the ground, you stay near your truck about 100 meters away.

The deputy first shows, somehow making it through the gate you know you closed and approaches the disabled 4 wheeler before getting out of his car. You are then summoned over by the deputy putting your gun on the hood of your truck. The sheriff shows up next, about 5 minutes after the deputy in which you are asked questions by him, then the 4 wheeler seems to be talking to the sheriff (you are separated by 10 or so feet).

After this the deputy stays near the 4 wheeler, writing something down and the sheriff comes back over explaining that he finds you in no fault and gives you a card. The 4 wheeler pushes the vehicle down your road, parks it near a bridge off your property, and gets into a passenger car.

A month later you are notified about a grand jury, visit a lawyer even though you have a limited income, then get the call that the grand jury finds you no fault and charges the 4 wheeler with mistormeanor trespass when it should of been a felony. All is fine until the lawyer you had hired calls you and states that there may be a civil case.

Civil:
The 4 wheeler claims a head injury, property damage, and that he can't work because of mental issues from the shooting. You find out though that this person lives down the road from your property, although your gate appeared locked (done on purpose) they still removed the chain and went through, and has been charged before with trespassing on private property.

A month or 2 after the grand jury:
Now, you know from previous cases and your lawyer that these cases rarely go to court because the other person is at fault so the case is dismissed through motions. But, because you are fixed income it still costs you money so you are pissed. 4 or so months later you find out this case is dismissed thanks to the judge approving a motion but you are out some dough.

Do you:
a) wish that you had killed this person and dealt with the civil case after that
b) wish you had not shot
c) be happy it was dismissed and you are not at fault plus the difficult limited info on Google to look up by potential employers since there was no case
d) cautious of repercussions from the 4 wheeler
e) find some way to counter sue although it may cost you money and time. Plus then a potential employer may find your case on a Goggle search
f) shut up you are drunk and this could back fire.

Edit: I should add that the 4 wheeler had a rifle on the front of it so you felt threatened. But, the driver never removed it from the rack.

Foster
06-20-2009, 03:14 AM
"c" is the smart choice, though I can understand if "a" or "e" are chosen

Enabler
06-20-2009, 03:57 AM
Personally Id pick b. Maybe the 4wheeler guy was in distress and needed help or something. Living in urban NJ I can def see defending your home from intruders, but I cant fathom firing at someone for being on my property. Then again I cant fathom what its like to have significant "land"

Chigworthy
06-20-2009, 05:04 AM
I must stress that this is hypothetical:

You are riding quads with your wife at the local OHV park, a gigantic rural park that is riddled with old fire and logging roads. There is no cell phone service. You are about 13 miles from thee staging area where the truck is, and there are few other riders as it is a weekday.

As you round a bend that you have ridden countless times before, you discover that the Beureau of Land Management has recently bladed the road, resulting in a very mushy surface. Your quad is on the outside, near a severe dropoff into a gully. You and your quad roll down the hill, and you sustain serious injuries.

Your wife stabilizes you and begins hauling ass towards the rear of the park, as she knows the area well and knows that some fire roads cut across private property there, but there are houses with occupants and phones that can call for help.

At a gate secured with a cable lock, she uses her quad multi-tool to cut the cable and crosses onto private property, technically committing vandalism and trespassing. As she is riding towards what she thinks will be a place to call for help, a man appears, pointing a rifle at her and shooting at her. She dives off of the bike and starts yelling an obscenity-laden explanation of the serious situation. The man with the gun raises his rifle and points it at her. Because she is a peace-officer and and carries her weapon at all times, plus knowing she is a good shot thanks to training, she drops to her knees and fires three rounds into the center of the mans chest, killing him.





Why would you use deadly force to stop trespassing? This is illegal in most states. I have a small arsenal and would not hesitate to use deadly force to stop a threat to the life of me or my wife. But possibly killing someone because they are riding a quad on your property seems a bit much.

denko
06-20-2009, 05:18 AM
But possibly killing someone because they are riding a quad on your property seems a bit much.


i agree.. shooting a guy for riding on some land seems a bit excessive.

so if a guy with a gun in a gun rack in the back window of a pickup turns around in your driveway do you feel threatened and shoot him?

instrument
06-20-2009, 05:29 AM
Lol, it sounds crazy that has to be said, this could only happen in montana right?

sailor
06-20-2009, 05:54 AM
You know your neighbors so you know it is not one of them even though the 4 wheeler is blue.

that part confuses the fuck out of me.

Foster
06-20-2009, 06:26 AM
that part confuses the fuck out of me.

obviously, the trespasser was disguising themselves as one of his neighbors

Judge Smails
06-20-2009, 06:35 AM
That this question could even be asked that it might be the slightest bit justified is why I try not to visit the red states.

Contra
06-20-2009, 06:46 AM
Well I've gotten nailed with pepper shot for riding my bike through someone's yard constantly for a shortcut we used to take as kids. We though that guy was insane.

sailor
06-20-2009, 07:24 AM
obviously, the trespasser was disguising themselves as one of his neighbors

sneaky fucks.

led37zep
06-20-2009, 07:32 AM
I never would have shot. He could have been deer hunting, he could have been doing a lot of other things. Doesn't seem the person in question was really threatened.

So I'd be happy I got away with what I did even if it did cost me some dough.

disneyspy
06-20-2009, 07:33 AM
sneaky fucks.

its not like he was a ninja,he said he heard a motorized vehicle,ninjas ride in silence

Chigworthy
06-20-2009, 08:15 PM
its not like he was a ninja,he said he heard a motorized vehicle,ninjas ride in silence

I thought ninjas rode ninjas, which are loud.

weekapaugjz
06-20-2009, 08:26 PM
that sounds a little too detailed to by hypothetical.

Serpico1103
06-20-2009, 09:09 PM
I must stress that this is a hypothetical question.

Do you:
a) wish that you had killed this person and dealt with the civil case after that
b) wish you had not shot
c) be happy it was dismissed and you are not at fault plus the difficult limited info on Google to look up by potential employers since there was no case
d) cautious of repercussions from the 4 wheeler
e) find some way to counter sue although it may cost you money and time. Plus then a potential employer may find your case on a Goggle search
f) shut up you are drunk and this could back fire.

Edit: I should add that the 4 wheeler had a rifle on the front of it so you felt threatened. But, the driver never removed it from the rack.
B)

Why would you shoot? I don't think there are any gun laws that liberal. The rider was not stealing your property, or putting you in reasonable fear of grave physical harm.
So, it is a poor hypothetical, and a poor response.

But, if you got off, than you are lucky. The shooter should be in jail and civilly liable.

WampusCrandle
06-20-2009, 09:47 PM
B)

Why would you shoot? I don't think there are any gun laws that liberal. The rider was not stealing your property, or putting you in reasonable fear of grave physical harm.
So, it is a poor hypothetical, and a poor response.

But, if you got off, than you are lucky. The shooter should be in jail and civilly liable.

i agree with this answer.

this hypothetical almost annoys me. why is it that the first thing you do when you see someone on an ATV on your property, you need to shoot at them? that is the worst logic i've ever heard.

disneyspy
06-21-2009, 10:09 AM
I thought ninjas rode ninjas, which are loud.

no ninjas ride on the wind which is silent,they woulda slit his throat before he even thought of grabbin his gun,i bet theres dozens of dead girl scouts buried on his property