Elective Plastic Surgery

[Gvac]

What do you think about people who alter themselves in some way, whether it's a nose job, boob job, sex change...anything.

If it's done for reasons other than to correct a horrible disfigurement, do you think it points to vanity and/or mental illness on the patient's part?

[Ryan Kulik]

the same way I feel about any other elective procedure like an abortion. It's none of my business.

[underdog]

Whatever makes them more comfortable in their own skin.

[brettmojo]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/ExpatJane/smileys/April%202008/after_plastic_surgery_wounds.gif

[Gvac]

Whatever makes them more comfortable in their own skin.

Don't you think that's more of a mental problem than a physical one?

[underdog]

Don't you think that's more of a mental problem than a physical one?

Probably, but it may help their mental state.

[Tall_James]

Don't you think that's more of a mental problem than a physical one?

No, I don't. What about a mom who has had 3 kids, nursed them all and would like to get them back to a reasonable size B, nothing crazy, for both her own self-esteem and to keep her husband interested.

That's not like the psychos who have theirs blown up to size HHH. It would hardly be noticeable to anyone besides herself.

There's plenty of gray area in this discussion.

[Gvac]

No, I don't. What about a mom who has had 3 kids, nursed them all and would like to get them back to a reasonable size B, nothing crazy, for both her own self-esteem and to keep her husband interested.

That's not like the psychos who have theirs blown up to size HHH. It would hardly be noticeable to anyone besides herself.

There's plenty of gray area in this discussion.

What do you think about people who alter themselves in some way, whether it's a nose job, boob job, sex change...anything.

If it's done for reasons other than to correct a horrible disfigurement, do you think it points to vanity and/or mental illness on the patient's part?

Obviously that would qualify.

[MacVittie]

There's an enormous difference between vanity and mental illness.

[Gvac]

do you think it points to vanity and/or mental illness on the patient's part?

Do you people ever actually READ the questions or just blindly react?

Sometimes I wonder...

[SatCam]

If it's done for reasons other than to correct a horrible disfigurement, do you think it points to vanity and/or mental illness on the patient's part?

Personally I think all ugly people have a horrible disfigurement

[MacVittie]

Do you people ever actually READ the questions or just blindly react?

Sometimes I wonder...

I read the question. I don't know why you chose those two attributes, since in my mind, they're quite separate.

[SatCam]

Posting on a message board also points to vanity and/or mental illness

[Marc with a c]

i'd get some, a little extra girthiness never hurt anybody.

[IrishAlkey]

Do you people ever actually READ the questions or just blindly react?

Sometimes I wonder...

After spending multiple seconds not reading this thread, I'm going to assume you're an asshole.

Where's my walking stick...

[Hottub]

I personally know 2 chicks who had breast reduction procedures. Not for vanity, but physical reasons. Back and neck pain, inability to sleep properly.

I wouldn't classify that as a horrible disfigurement.

[SatCam]

I personally know 2 chicks who had breast reduction procedures. Not for vanity, but physical reasons. Back and neck pain, inability to sleep properly.

I wouldn't classify that as a horrible disfigurement.

the surgery itself was disfiguring

[IrishAlkey]

I personally know 2 chicks who had breast reduction procedures.

Quit bragging.

[Gvac]

I read the question. I don't know why you chose those two attributes, since in my mind, they're quite separate.

So are breaking and entering and murder, but sometimes a suspect is charged with both.

Or just one.

Comprende?

[spoon]

After spending multiple seconds not reading this thread, I'm going to assume you're an asshole.

Where's my walking stick...

I've got ur walking stick right here big slick.

[Gvac]

After spending multiple seconds not reading this thread, I'm going to assume you're an asshole.

Where's my walking stick...

You've been exposed, lousy-hand-job-giver.

Move along.

[IrishAlkey]

You've been exposed, lousy-hand-job-giver.

Real men of geniuuuuuuuuuuuussssssss...

[BinaryTaoist]

If a woman wants to get a boob job 'cause shes had one or both removed from cancer I can't argue with that...


Other than that the person should get treated for self-esteem disorders, or self perception issues...

I think its an insult to docs that plastic surgeons share the same prefix...

I seen few things as violent as a plastic surgeon jamming a fat wand in and out of a gut.

[IrishAlkey]

I seen few things as violent as a plastic surgeon jamming a fat wand in and out of a gut.

You should see me and Gvac fuck.

[SatCam]

If a woman wants to get a boob job 'cause shes had one or both removed from cancer I can't argue with that...


Other than that the person should get treated for self-esteem disorders, or self perception issues...

What about people who buy really expensive clothes or people who wax their cars? Isnt it the same idea?


But I can see the argument that plastic surgery is a much more dangerous thing--potentially life threatening--to do then buy some nice clothes.


I will deal with the hand god dealt me, but if some people have other plans, so be it

[jetdog]

I don't think I have ever sided with Fez over Ron before (and I think ron was playing the you-know-who's advocate today, as he does so many times, to varying degrees), but sexual reassignment should be an accepted practice. The metaphors used to argue against it are invalid, ie. wanting to be a dog or have appendages placed anywhere on the body. Sexual reassignment is a valid procedure because it is now relativeley safe and can be regulated to protect against abuse. Now having typed that, no system of protection against abuse is failsafe and we as a society need to both accept that and work towards making it as comprehensive as possible. This will inevietably result in failures, as with any other attempt to introduce new pharmaceuticals, treatments or vaccines.
We're the most cognizant species on the planet and we need to both embrace that and accept the responsibilities that go along with that. We need to make judgment calls on a daily basis...yes, I will keep cats and dogs as pets, but kill and eat a cow or chicken. In the same vein we have the intelligence and responsibility to make the judgement that yes sexual reassignment is a valid option for those that, by our standards, should have it. Whereas we can say that elective surgery for someone wanting a dick grafted to each knee is not reasonable. It's a vague argument in some respects, but I think a strong one, we as humans make our own values, arguing against something because it is "against nature" is not a valid argument, because we define what nature is. the only guidelines we have are those we (passivelly through evolution) made for ourselves.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I see no difference in a woman getting a boob job (as long as she researches it and goes to a decent doctor) than anything else she does to make herself feel better.

Some women, aesthetically, like bigger breasts and smaller noses. Some men prefer blondes, some prefer brunettes.

[BlackSpider]

You should see me and Gvac fuck.



Yes please.
Can you post a link to the video...?

[SatCam]

I seen few things as violent as a plastic surgeon jamming a fat wand in and out of a gut.

I guess you havent seen that video of those Ukrainian kids who kill a homeless guy with a screwdriver?

[IrishAlkey]

I will deal with the hand god dealt me, but if some people have other plans, so be it

I have shaved my dick to make it look bigger

Slander.

[SatCam]

Slander.

What I do in the privacy of my own bathroom is none of your business

[SatCam]

Gvac would you argue that the practice of orthodontics is necessary or unnecessary?

[tanless1]

im all for a breast re-vitalazation project. up, down- balanced is nice or just seeking some fresh perkyness.

sexual reassignment though ? wow, youve got to realy dislike yourself for that.

what was the question again ?

[Gvac]

Gvac would you argue that the practice of orthodontics is necessary or unnecessary?

Obviously you've got to be able to chew properly.

I don't think anyone needs those absurdly white chicklet looking teeth, though.

[BinaryTaoist]

What about people who buy really expensive clothes or people who wax their cars? Isnt it the same idea?

I do think its the same idea, but the intesity is way off the charts... I think the line drawn is when functional body tissue is cut apart... living body tissue isn't really designed to be taken apart and rearranged... the scar tissue alone is going to cause problems taking up space that used to go to tissues that performed a function.

I don't think I have ever sided with Fez over Ron before (and I think ron was playing the you-know-who's advocate today, as he does so many times, to varying degrees), but sexual reassignment should be an accepted practice. The metaphors used to argue against it are invalid, ie. wanting to be a dog or have appendages placed anywhere on the body. Sexual reassignment is a valid procedure because it is now relativeley safe and can be regulated to protect against abuse. Now having typed that, no system of protection against abuse is failsafe and we as a society need to both accept that and work towards making it as comprehensive as possible. This will inevietably result in failures, as with any other attempt to introduce new pharmaceuticals, treatments or vaccines.


What happens when surgical procedures to become a dog become safe? And the term 'abuse' is an incredibly loaded word; and for me, 'sexual reassignment' seems to be only abuse.

I guess you havent seen that video of those Ukrainian kids who kill a homeless guy with a screwdriver?

Yeah I can't watch shit like that... I've worked on a few cadavers no problem but when its living, active body tissue? No way, no how, not now, not ever.

[BinaryTaoist]

Oh and while boob jobs LOOK great (edit:under clothes)...

Palpating boob jobs is such a let down.

[jetdog]

What happens when surgical procedures to become a dog become safe? And the term 'abuse' is an incredibly loaded word; and for me, 'sexual reassignment' seems to be only abuse.

.

Surgical procedures to become a dog don't become safe because we define and regulate mental stability (yes, based on both scientific understanding and societal norms), there is no getting past that. Free will, free speech aside the medical community has a responsibilty to mediate what is and is not healthy, that is the point of my post...we as a society have a responsibilty to mediate what is healthy based on our understanding of science and what it can and cannot do.
Your definition of sexual reassignment as "abuse" is arbitrary and meaningless. Abuse of medical procedures is, to the best of our knowledge now, well defined by the NIH and other medical governing bodies.

[STC-Dub]

It depends on the person. Just because some one has plastic surgery does no necessarily mean they are mentally ill but there are mentally ill people who get plastic surgery. In most cases it would be vanity though.

[Suspect Chin]

I think its an insult to docs that plastic surgeons share the same prefix...


I agree with this. I know a ton of surgeons that have dedicated their lives to actually helping people. Yeah they have the financial aspect on their minds as well and I've seen two surgeons actually argue in an OR over who would do an aspect of a surgery just so they could be the one to get paid. But for the most part, they have the patient's best interest in mind.

Going under the knife for a serious issue is an extremely risky decision and these guys will only operate when it is absolutely necessary.

Plastic surgeons on the other hand are encouraging people to risk surgery just to look better and to line their pockets. And lets face it, how many face lifts, nose jobs, lip injections, botox, etc. actually help the person look better? Usually it makes them look like a mutant. Hell even half of the boob jobs look bad.

[A.J.]

Sometimes the State demands we all conform.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1056/534195758_eca6e583c7.jpg?v=0

[lleeder]

My cousin got that surgery to have his ears not stick out so far. He seems like he has a secret.

[led37zep]

The trippy thing about elective surgery is how many women are starting to develop the same features. (this applies to non boob regions only...I might be boobs biggest fan.)

So many women have the same style of puffed lips, or the same general look on their face from botox/face lifts. Its actually pretty creepy when you realize it while walking around manhattan (or LA)

[lleeder]

I think everyone should get surgery til we all look like Marilyn Manson in the Dope Show.

[Kris10]

If the recovery time wasn't so long or painful I think I'd have some work done. Why not.

[beachbum]

I don't see anything wrong with a person getting cosmetic surgery done.I've known women who have had breast augmentation and breast reduction.(Guess which procedure I'm a bigger fan of.)Alot of people are simply uncomfortable with their body image whether it be boobs,nose,whatever.

Saying that their choice is wrong would be like saying going to the gym is wrong.If a person works out to improve the shape of their body does that mean they have a mental illness?

Anything can be taken to extremes though be it plastic surgery,working out,tattoos/piercings etc.

[BinaryTaoist]

Surgical procedures to become a dog don't become safe because we define and regulate mental stability (yes, based on both scientific understanding and societal norms), there is no getting past that. Free will, free speech aside the medical community has a responsibilty to mediate what is and is not healthy, that is the point of my post...we as a society have a responsibilty to mediate what is healthy based on our understanding of science and what it can and cannot do.
Your definition of sexual reassignment as "abuse" is arbitrary and meaningless. Abuse of medical procedures is, to the best of our knowledge now, well defined by the NIH and other medical governing bodies.

I call shenanigans...

Exactly where are these 'well defined' procedures in preventing medical abuse? If you could provide a link I would appreciate it. Without one, your opinion that my definition of abuse is arbitrary & meaningless is just that - arbitrary and meaningless...

In your original post, you said that you think sexual reasignment should be accepted, followed with the reasoning that it was safe... My question about 'dog reasignment' was an extension of your reasoning...

[jennysmurf]

If the recovery time wasn't so long or painful I think I'd have some work done. Why not.

X2--Who wouldn't rather have thin thighs and a flat tummy? It's an issue of laziness with me though. If it were affordable, I would totally have the fat sucked out in an hour or so rather than spend the months/years to do it through diet and exercise.

[Gvac]

I worry about the mental stability of anyone who thinks they'll find true happiness and inner peace with a smaller nose, bigger tits, flatter stomach, etc.

[sailor]

why would you care about someone else getting surgery? nothing wrong with elective plastic surgery, unless they become addicted and go crazy.

[jennysmurf]

I worry about the mental stability of anyone who thinks they'll find true happiness and inner peace with a smaller nose, bigger tits, flatter stomach, etc.

Maybe not happiness, but it'd be nice to be eligible for the "hot chicks" thread.....:wink:

[disneyspy]

Maybe not happiness, but it'd be nice to be eligible for the "hot chicks" thread.....:wink:

in my imigination,you do

[jennysmurf]

in my imigination,you do

:wub: Oh you!

[A.J.]

Maybe not happiness, but it'd be nice to be eligible for the "hot chicks" thread.....:wink:

Chastity Bono is having elective plastic surgery to be eligible for the "hot dudes" thread. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81401&highlight=chastity)

[boosterp]

For valid medical modalities I am all for it, otherwise I do not make other people's choices for them. I doubt I would ever have elective "enhancement" cosmetic surgery.

I also hate the feel of a tit job and I had seen some well done ones when I did my GYN rotations.

[K.C.]

I used to have discussions about this all the time with a chick I went out with once upon a time.

She was a very big believer in it, because it "helps the person's self-esteem."


My argument was that the only reason people get elective plastic surgery is to look better in relation to societal standards of beauty. People can say "no, it's for me" all they want, but the truth is that "it's for me to look better for them" almost anyway you cut it.

And in that regard, why would you want to be with anyone who wouldn't have you as is?


Now, in regards to plastic surgery for accidents or disfigurations, I understand that, because you want to be as close to who you were before, because that's your identity.

One could argue that logic applies to elective plastic surgery, but I think there's a gigantic difference between gradual aging, fattening, etc. and having your physical identity stolen in the blink of an eye.


It's funny, as I get a little bit older, I find myself more and more into women who are natural, comfortable with staying who they are, and so forth. I find it very refreshing.

[K.C.]

Moody says it best:

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[PapaBear]

Holy FUCK!!! What did Illeana Douglas do to herself? This is from last Wednesday's CSI episode "Passed Pawns". I would have had no idea it was her, if it weren't for her distinctive voice.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/illeanadouglas_zps49491d9a.jpg

[spoon]

who?

[realmenhatelife]

That is an odd look.

[cougarjake13]

who?


she was on SNL

[PapaBear]

she was on SNL
Not that I'm aware of. She was the secretary who was raped and beaten in Cape Fear, and the sister of the dead husband in To Die For, among other things. Most recently, she has had a recurring roll on one of the Law & Order shows as a defense lawyer.

[A.J.]

Holy FUCK!!! What did Illeana Douglas do to herself? This is from last Wednesday's CSI episode "Passed Pawns". I would have had no idea it was her, if it weren't for her distinctive voice.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/illeanadouglas_zps49491d9a.jpg

I don't think Tommy will mind if she looks at another guy now.

[hanso]

What about the freeze the fat off deal. Is it safe? I keep hearing the ad on my local radio.

[sailor]

What about the freeze the fat off deal. Is it safe? I keep hearing the ad on my local radio.

Local radio. I'd assume not safe.

[Dude!]

ahh...so it turns out
hanso is a really fat person

[PapaBear]

ahh...so it turns out
hanso is a really fat person
How do you know he's not interested in becoming a fatfreezologist?

[CountryBob]

Labiaplasty blows my mind.
don't know how a woman wouldn't want a Nice luscious meaty vag

[hanso]

Labiaplasty blows my mind.
don't know how a woman wouldn't want a Nice luscious meaty vag

Womenz be cray yo

[hanso]

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