Have we made progress in the last 40 years?

[furie]

http://izismile.com/img/img2/20090401/selection_125_64.jpg

I'd say yes. This almost seems like it should be something from the 1870's, hard to believe that this is a book that i could have had in school.


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[brettmojo]

Who put out that book Charles Shultz?

[Foster]

Who put out that book Charles Shultz?

I think it was Misteriosa

[furie]

Who put out that book Charles Shultz?

i thought they looked more like the school house rock cartoons

[toolshed]

seems pretty accurate...

[Furtherman]

What the hell is that girl doing over the grill!?!?!

[WampusCrandle]

I really hope we have gone past that book. So far past it, that we looped around.

[ToiletCrusher]

I think that the stereotypes still exist. Education is one field that is still very female dominated.

This is changing, but slowly as more women are recognizing that they are capable of attaining education and professional levels that they were once denied 30 years ago.

[Gvac]

If you call denying nature's way "progress" then I guess you can say we have.

Hell, we've even got "men" having babies!

Isn't it wonderful?!?! :wacko:

[ToiletCrusher]

I was simply saying that there has been a trend where women have become more empowered in the professional sense than ever before.

This does however, open doors in what were once predominately female dominated fields.

Take my example of Education. I have a little theory.

For many decades, the smartest women flooded the education field because it wasn't socially acceptable for women to be doctors and lawyers and research scientists.

As that "glass ceiling" was "shattered", women began to see themselves able to achieve high levels of success in more "respected" fields.

Hence, our brightest women fled from education to pursue more lucrative career paths.

However, this leaves one field (education) in need of qualified people.

No longer are the brightest women dominating this field which means that as a result, many universities have had to lower their standards for entrance into programs that prepare people for education.

[Gvac]

At least there are still some that know their place

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/52/147940492_df55bbfb91.jpg

[ToiletCrusher]

At least there are still some that know their place

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/52/147940492_df55bbfb91.jpg

She's got a nice sucker.

[TheMojoPin]

Gender-wise? Definitely, though there's still a long way to go, especially when you start equating sexuality into the debate.

Racially speaking?

No.

This country is now more segregated on all levels than at any point in its history. Just because overt de jure segregation is for the most part gone doesn't mean everything, or anything, is "fixed." De facto segregaton is stronger than ever and far more insidious. Residential and educational segregation is more rampant now than ever before.

[Gvac]

Racially speaking?

No.

This country is now more segregated on all levels than at any point in its history. Just because overt de jure segregation is for the most part gone doesn't mean everything, or anything, is "fixed." De facto segregaton is stronger than ever and far more insidious. Residential and educational segregation is more rampant now than ever before.

Shut up with your liberal tripe!

Barefoot and pregnant I say!

[ToiletCrusher]

Take cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, and the rest of the rust belt.

They all are incredibly segregated and in the "progressive" north.

[TheMojoPin]

Take cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, and the rest of the rust belt.

They all are incredibly segregated and in the "progressive" north.

Why stop there? St. Louis, Detroit, Milwuakee and Chicago (with cities like DC, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Bostonn right behind) are all typically battling for which is the most segregated major American city. This isn't a "Southern" thing. The South largely never segregated blacks and whites residentially post-slavery. They'd be seperated by economics, but poor blacks and poor whites lived in the same neighborhoods and the other classes did the same. The South obviously segregated on the the public sphere, but things like ghettos and redlining and blockbusting and sundown towns and residential segregation as we know it now are totally an invention of the North in response to the Great Migrations.

[ToiletCrusher]

And spurred "white flight".

[TheMojoPin]

And spurred "white flight".

That came later. The first few decades they dealt with it by steering blacks to seperate neighborhoods plus good old intimidation and rioting.

[Gvac]

Excuse me...but we're talking GENDER equality here, not RACE.

Couple of killjoys.

[brettmojo]

I really hope we have gone past that book. So far past it, that we looped around.
Thank god. That means good times ahead.

[ToiletCrusher]

That came later. The first few decades they dealt with it by steering blacks to seperate neighborhoods plus good old intimidation and rioting.

But, eventually it lead to what we now call white flight. Obviously, we treated southern blacks the same way we treated all Asian immigrants with making them live in a concentrated neighborhood.

Excuse me...but we're talking GENDER equality here, not RACE.

Couple of killjoys.

Replace neighborhood and black with profession and woman. Same story.

[jab]

there will be no progress until gender has been eradicated and words replaced by empathic telepathy. also, we need some robots.

[TheMojoPin]

But, eventually it lead to what we now call white flight. Obviously, we treated southern blacks the same way we treated all Asian immigrants with making them live in a concentrated neighborhood.

The difference between black neighborhoods and other ethnic neighborhoods is that there really is not now, nor has there ever been, another minority that has been so expressly relegated to "their" neighborhoods and actively kept from others. Certainly other minorities intially faced similar restrictions, from the Chinese to the Irish, but the key difference is that all those other groups have been able to move past that. Chinatowns now exist by choice. Black ghettos do not. Blacks are still actively restricted or tripped up in their efforts to move into non-black neighborhoods and non-blacks still have a very real tipping point where they abandon a neighborhood if it becomes "too black" (usually around 15%). That's when blockbusting comes into play.

[ToiletCrusher]

The difference between black neighborhoods and other ethnic neighborhoods is that there really is not now, nor has there ever been, another minority that has been so expressly relegated to "their" neighborhoods and actively kept from others. Certainly other minorities intially faced similar restrictions, from the Chinese to the Irish, but the key difference is that all those other groups have been able to move past that. Chinatowns now exist by choice. Black ghettos do not. Blacks are still actively restricted or tripped up in their efforts to move into non-black neighborhoods and non-blacks still have a very real tipping point where they abandon a neighborhood if it becomes "too black" (usually around 15%). That's when blockbusting comes into play.

At no point do I disagree with you. But the simple truth is that as a country we have set the precedence that this is the norm. Not all "chinatowns" exist solely as a result of choice.

I know plenty of Chinese people who said when they first came to the US, they moved to an area that was predominately Chinese because that is where they felt they fit in.

Is that because of choice? Or is that because of what we have set as norm that they can't feel like they can be accepted in other areas?

[TheMojoPin]

At no point do I disagree with you. But the simple truth is that as a country we have set the precedence that this is the norm. Not all "chinatowns" exist solely as a result of choice.

I know plenty of Chinese people who said when they first came to the US, they moved to an area that was predominately Chinese because that is where they felt they fit in.

Is that because of choice? Or is that because of what we have set as norm that they can't feel like they can be accepted in other areas?

Great, the board ate my first reply.

The long and short of the critical difference here is that we're not talking about immigrants coming to a new country and grouping together for familiarity and security with, largely, the intention of ultimately moving on. We're talking about people born and raised in America basically being forced to live like that.

[ToiletCrusher]

Great, the board ate my first reply.

The long and short of the critical difference here is that we're not talking about immigrants coming to a new country and grouping together for familiarity and security with, largely, the intention of ultimately moving on. We're talking about people born and raised in America basically being forced to live like that.

Ans whites have not raised their young for the same basic outcome?

[TheMojoPin]

Ans whites have not raised their young for the same basic outcome?

I don't understand what your point is.

[brettmojo]

Gender-wise? Definitely, though there's still a long way to go, especially when you start equating sexuality into the debate.

Racially speaking?

No.

This country is now more segregated on all levels than at any point in its history. Just because overt de jure segregation is for the most part gone doesn't mean everything, or anything, is "fixed." De facto segregaton is stronger than ever and far more insidious. Residential and educational segregation is more rampant now than ever before.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6904/stayontargetjq8.gif

[ToiletCrusher]

I don't understand what your point is.

Blacks were and are not just forced to live in certain areas because they would not be accepted in certain neighborhoods, but white children (suburban) are also raised and conditioned to stay where they were brought up.

This only further reinforces the "black ghettos" and such.

[TripleSkeet]

I liked it better the old way.

[TripleSkeet]

I was simply saying that there has been a trend where women have become more empowered in the professional sense than ever before.

This does however, open doors in what were once predominately female dominated fields.

Take my example of Education. I have a little theory.

For many decades, the smartest women flooded the education field because it wasn't socially acceptable for women to be doctors and lawyers and research scientists.

As that "glass ceiling" was "shattered", women began to see themselves able to achieve high levels of success in more "respected" fields.

Hence, our brightest women fled from education to pursue more lucrative career paths.

However, this leaves one field (education) in need of qualified people.

No longer are the brightest women dominating this field which means that as a result, many universities have had to lower their standards for entrance into programs that prepare people for education.

This is true, however there were alot of other fields forced to take women as a way of showing equality, and Im not a fan of that.

Personally I believe their are some jobs that women were not made for and shouldnt be allowed in. Police, firefighter and military come to mind.

[Dude!]

it is just so wrong
that a man can't be
a wet nurse

men have a long way to go
to get their equal rights

[TheMojoPin]

Blacks were and are not just forced to live in certain areas because they would not be accepted in certain neighborhoods, but white children (suburban) are also raised and conditioned to stay where they were brought up.

This only further reinforces the "black ghettos" and such.

I don't think most of any group are encouraged to stay where they grew up. I think most people ideally want their kids to go off to college and be wherever they can be most successful.

I also don't see how you can say that blacks are not and especially were not forced to certain areas given the abundance of evidence otherwise. Hell, laws, regulations and covenants to do just that and such were on the books into the 70's all over the North and the West. It just went from being de jure to de facto.