Antichrist

[thepaulo]

HOff introduced a trailer in my summer movie thread.
Then it set off a firestorm of controversy at Cannes. It is the latest film by Lars Von Trier and stars Willem Dafoe. This is now on everyone's hot list but we probably won't see it for a year.

[realmenhatelife]

I wonder how much of the Cannes reactions are a psychology of one upsmanship among critics. Some of the stuff I'm reading just seems silly. I also wonder how long before I can download the uncut, as I dont imagine any theaters around me will carry it at NC 17

[Gerald]

Ebert's blog item on seeing it (warning, spoilerish):

This is the most despairing film I've ever have seen.


http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/05/for_even_now_already_is_it_in.html

[Gerald]

we probably won't see it for a year.

Maybe if it wins the Palm D'Or it'll be fast-tracked for a late-fall/early-winter release. If memory serves that's what happened with Dancer in the Dark which also caused quite a stir in its debut and left a lot of people debating its merits.

[razorboy]

I'm actually quite looking forward to it. I'm a fan of Lars von Trier, Charlotte Gainsbourg and Willem Dafoe.

[Gerald]

I dont imagine any theaters around me will carry it at NC 17

It'll surely be exclusive to the Landmark chain. Maybe they'll go day & date by making it available to demand through your cable provider in conjunction with the theatrical release. It'd be great if a chain like AMC set a precedent by showing it, though. I'm sure they'd have to deal with people from every showing wanting a refund but business would be robust for at least a few weeks.

[Gerald]

I remember in the 90's the United Artists chain my area would book an NC-17 title every so often, the two most notable being Crash and Showgirls.

[thepaulo]

I remember in the 90's the United Artists chain my area would book an NC-17 title every so often, the two most notable being Crash and Showgirls.

It goes without saying I have to see every NC-17 film.

Nothing like a good NC-17 film.

[realmenhatelife]

It'll surely be exclusive to the Landmark chain. Maybe they'll go day & date by making it available to demand through your cable provider in conjunction with the theatrical release. It'd be great if a chain like AMC set a precedent by showing it, though. I'm sure they'd have to deal with people from every showing wanting a refund but business would be robust for at least a few weeks.


I'd pay for it on demand. I was specifically thinking about a little theater on my block that shows second run indie movies (it was in the original Blob.) So much of their business is the family programs they run on the weekends I feel like they wouldn't show something like this.

[H0ff]

this movie will never play in memphis. It took a month for No Country to pop up on a single screen. On-demand is the way to go for movies that are not big hollywood productions. It would have been a year til i could see Gomorrah. Paulo have you looked into getting gap available on demand?

[thepaulo]

this movie will never play in memphis. It took a month for No Country to pop up on a single screen. On-demand is the way to go for movies that are not big hollywood productions. It would have been a year til i could see Gomorrah. Paulo have you looked into getting gap available on demand?

I'm very slow at everything but I just read a good article on VOD. We'll see.

[Gerald]

Ebert wrote another blog entry about it...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/05/a_devils_advocate_for_antichri.html

I skimmed over a lot of it because I'm trying to distance myself from some of the particulars of what happens in the story.

[Gerald]

I rarely find a serious film by a major director to be this disturbing. Its images are a fork in the eye. Its cruelty is unrelenting. Its despair is profound.

I want to see this now, dammit!

I'm starting to worry that its notorious reputation is going to become so overblown that it ultimately won't live up to it. Like with The Blair Witch Project, which was hyped up as the scariest movie of all time during its 6-month festival tour (some of the critics at Cannes were even outraged that it wasn't shown in competition for the D'or); when I finally saw it I couldn't help but view it through the prism of its overwhelming hype and I didn't think it came close to measuring up.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm so torn on von Trier. As a filmmaker in terms of making something resembling a cohesive, entertaining film he's an abject failure...but in terms of pushing the medium to its absolute limits and pushing audiences to all sorts of extreme visceral emotions, he's a pro. Back in the day, that meant something, maybe...but nowadays, isn't he just making hipster/"artsy" torture porn? Everything I hear about this just sounds like he's trying too hard. I think it's very arguable that Dogme 95 has run its course.

[KnoxHarrington]

Wow, I hope it's a movie where a woman is treated horribly and the point that America is an awful place full of awful people is hammered home with no subtlety at all! He hasn't made that movie yet!

[burrben]

ill watch it and ill probably enjoy it

[GreatAmericanZero]

i really want to see it just to see what the deal is

[falcon95]

i heard bout this movie on drudge report i think it may be shocking 4 the sake of being shocking

[H0ff]

what's going to happen when Ebert passes away? I go to his site to see reviews on every movie basically because he is so good at explaining things in movies like Antichrist that would pass right over my dumbass. By the way, i didn't know this until recently but he is married to a voluptuous African American vixen.

[falcon95]

what's going to happen when Ebert passes away? I go to his site to see reviews on every movie basically because he is so good at explaining things in movies like Antichrist that would pass right over my dumbass. By the way, i didn't know this until recently but he is married to a voluptuous African American vixen.

ebert kinda fell off since siskle died

[TheMojoPin]

ebert kinda fell off since siskle died

Not at all. He's one of the few critics out there that sticks by his opinions and will really drive it home whether or not he likes a film and why. In print he's never lost anything.

[Slumbag]

Not at all. He's one of the few critics out there that sticks by his opinions and will really drive it home whether or not he likes a film and why. In print he's never lost anything.

I don't like him simply for the Vincent Gallo/Brown Bunny thing.
His initial reaction was fine. It's a piece of shit. But they got into this big fight, Gallo cut the flick, and then Ebert was like, "Oh, it's marvelous". I'm sure whatever he cut from the flick couldn't have been the only thing Ebert didn't like about it.

He lost a ton of credibility, in my eyes, from that.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't like him simply for the Vincent Gallo/Brown Bunny thing.
His initial reaction was fine. It's a piece of shit. But they got into this big fight, Gallo cut the flick, and then Ebert was like, "Oh, it's marvelous". I'm sure whatever he cut from the flick couldn't have been the only thing Ebert didn't like about it.

He lost a ton of credibility, in my eyes, from that.

It's not like he was fawning over it. He just recognizes the impact that editing can have ona film. Gallo cut out like half an hour of the thing and recut it a bit. That's a pretty significant change and can easily make a movie totally different. Personally, I think it sucks in any form, but Ebert explained what he liked about it and makes a convincing case as to why he liked the recut version.

[thepaulo]

I'm so torn on von Trier. As a filmmaker in terms of making something resembling a cohesive, entertaining film he's an abject failure...but in terms of pushing the medium to its absolute limits and pushing audiences to all sorts of extreme visceral emotions, he's a pro. Back in the day, that meant something, maybe...but nowadays, isn't he just making hipster/"artsy" torture porn? Everything I hear about this just sounds like he's trying too hard. I think it's very arguable that Dogme 95 has run its course.


Dogma 95 is to be applauded for challenging people to think.....to make rules to break rules.....much like the French New Wave....
It still takes true inspiration to make great movies.....
Breaking The Waves was a great movie.
We'll see if Lars or his comrades make some "waves" in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogme_95

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, it had its moment in the sun, but the perceptions and tolerance of the public has moved on. It feels like he and his ilk have to too try to hard to shock and it ends up being simply for the sake of shocking. As I asked, how is he not just making arthouse torture porn? How is he any better than Eli Roth at this point?

[thepaulo]

Yeah, it had its moment in the sun, but the perceptions and tolerance of the public has moved on. It feels like he and his ilk have to too try to hard to shock and it ends up being simply for the sake of shocking. As I asked, how is he not just making arthouse torture porn? How is he any better than Eli Roth at this point?

Well we certainly have to hope he's better than Eli Roth.

[TheMojoPin]

But why is he better than Eli Roth at this point?

[thepaulo]

But why is he better than Eli Roth at this point?

He has demonstrated a point of view....even a powerful desire to reinvent film as a whole.
He seems a little crazy and unpredictable, so anything is possible. He has talent and imagination.
The issue with Antichrist will be is this be an artistic work. What has he been trying to communicate? Does the Anti-Americanism and mysogyny in his films reveal something to us that we are not able to see on our own?
There is no question that he's not a likable guy. He is poking and prodding at issues that are uncomfortable. We'll have to wait and see if he's just become an arrogant hack.

[TheMojoPin]

He has demonstrated a point of view....even a powerful desire to reinvent film as a whole.
He seems a little crazy and unpredictable, so anything is possible. He has talent and imagination.
The issue with Antichrist will be is this be an artistic work. What has he been trying to communicate? Does the Anti-Americanism and mysogyny in his films reveal something to us that we are not able to see on our own?
There is no question that he's not a likable guy. He is poking and prodding at issues that are uncomfortable. We'll have to wait and see if he's just become an arrogant hack.

How is this reinventing anything?

How are his explicit explorations of violence any more relevant or meaningful than Roth's?

It's seeming more and more like bullshit. It's just violence for violence's sake in an attempt to seem relevant and shocking.

[KnoxHarrington]

How is this reinventing anything?

How are his explicit explorations of violence any more relevant or meaningful than Roth's?

It's seeming more and more like bullshit. It's just violence for violence's sake in an attempt to seem relevant and shocking.

Well, Eli Roth has given explanations for why he makes movies in which half-dressed teen girls are brutally tortured that sound pretty much like what von Trier says.

[Gerald]

It's just violence for violence's sake in an attempt to seem relevant and shocking.

Maybe we should withdraw judgment until we see it for ourselves. It might be presumptuous at this juncture - where the Cannes print is still warm from illumination and we're god knows how many months away from some form of distribution - to categorize it alongside Hostel, which had extreme content for a mainstream release but was ultimately designed as an entertainment for shopping mall youths. Antichrist, with the reported nature of its challenging and unsettling allegorical content, sounds like it be more at home warranting comparison to something from the annals of Shock Cinema history.

[thepaulo]

How is this reinventing anything?

How are his explicit explorations of violence any more relevant or meaningful than Roth's?

It's seeming more and more like bullshit. It's just violence for violence's sake in an attempt to seem relevant and shocking.

As I say, It's a normal reaction to dislike the prick, but Von Trier is a better film maker than Roth. Roth is a first tier explotation director at best.

[TheMojoPin]

As I say, It's a normal reaction to dislike the prick, but Von Trier is a better film maker than Roth. Roth is a first tier explotation director at best.

And von Trier isn't "exploiting" anything?

[TheMojoPin]

Maybe we should withdraw judgment until we see it for ourselves. It might be presumptuous at this juncture - where the Cannes print is still warm from illumination and we're god knows how many months away from some form of distribution - to categorize it alongside Hostel, which had extreme content for a mainstream release but was ultimately designed as an entertainment for shopping mall youths. Antichrist, with the reported nature of its challenging and unsettling allegorical content, sounds like it be more at home warranting comparison to something from the annals of Shock Cinema history.

It's not like the guy hasn't been stuck in the same rut for quite a few films now. Based on his work over his career and the various reviews of this new one, it hardly sounds like it rocks the boat of the usual LvT schtick.

[thepaulo]

It's not like the guy hasn't been stuck in the same rut for quite a few films now. Based on his work over his career and the various reviews of this new one, it hardly sounds like it rocks the boat of the usual LvT schtick.

I will admit that LvT is not my cup of tea lately but I do see him as an artist as opposed to a hack. What he's tapping into is unpleasant stuff that rankles people. That's what an artist is suppose to do. Provoke discussion. We know he's a manipulator, and he is very successful in this instance in forcing us to look at pain and suffering by showing someone who ignores it. This is a very fine line to tread before it becomes deeply exploitive. We will all have to wait.

[TheMojoPin]

I will admit that LvT is not my cup of tea lately but I do see him as an artist as opposed to a hack. What he's tapping into is unpleasant stuff that rankles people. That's what an artist is suppose to do. Provoke discussion. We know he's a manipulator, and he is very successful in this instance in forcing us to look at pain and suffering by showing someone who ignores it. This is a very fine line to tread before it becomes deeply exploitive. We will all have to wait.

There's a difference between promoting discussion and thought and just being a sensationalist hack. I think it's much easier to provoke talk about a film simply by making it "shocking." That's not hard to do. I think he's getting way too much credit for making willfully dense or lazily shocking films. He's not showing any kind of craft at all.

[thepaulo]

There's a difference between promoting discussion and thought and just being a sensationalist hack. I think it's much easier to provoke talk about a film simply by making it "shocking." That's not hard to do. I think he's getting way too much credit for making willfully dense or lazily shocking films. He's not showing any kind of craft at all.

Clearly whatever talent he has comes not so much from craft but more from the philosophical and theoretical side. I don't think he is lazy but he might becoming entrenched in his own self-constructed dogma.

[thepaulo]

By the way, Charlotte Gainsbourg won best actress at Cannes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/movies/25cannes.html

[Gerald]

Everybody booed the guy who won best director at Cannes. His universally hated film reportedly dedicated its entire second half to showing in real time a woman being raped, killed and dismembered. Sounds like a perfect double feature companion for AntiChrist.

I'm hoping the fact of AC being the most galvanizing entry in competition will expedite its release. I've heard rumors about different territories getting different versions to accomodate the rating systems therein.

[yojimbo7248]

And von Trier isn't "exploiting" anything?

If by "exploiting" we mean "trying to profit from", then LvT does not exploit violence, sex, torture in his films. I am no big fan of his but you can't accuse the guy of trying to make tons of money with his films. If we are using a broader definition and saying "exploit" means to "use in a manipulative way", then, yes, of course, he exploits but which artist doesn't?

[yojimbo7248]

The reviews make Antichrist sound like the original Funny Games by Michael Haneke. Both have that "artistic" approach toward violence and torture which I find extremely annoying. Sure, LvT and Haneke aren't making Saw IX but so what? They are supposed to be in a different category of film because their torture scenes are making important statements about society, art, and what it means to watch someone be raped, tortured, murdered on film. I remember interviews with Haneke in which he said he wanted to show the reality of violence and uncover the hypocrisy of torture as entertainment that you get in mainstream films. What an arrogant prick. Worse than that, what a boring, horrible, stupid reason to make a film - like a big "fuck you" to the audience. It's not even that clever of an idea. Ohh, stop the presses, real violence is horrible and Hollywood films give us a watered down version that desensitizes us to real murder, torture, rape.

Both have made films I like (Code Unknown, Cache, Breaking the Waves) but I hate that over-intellectualized European approach to movies. These guys seriously need to lighten the fuck up.

[yojimbo7248]

Interesting that more North American critics are liking Antichrist than French ones. I just read that in Ebert's second blog.

[thepaulo]

It will be interesting how quickly it actually becomes available to see.
I'm sure I will like it to a degree.
For the record, my favorite Dogma film is a nasty little piece about a theatical troupe stranded in the desert called The King Is Alive.

[yojimbo7248]

It will be interesting how quickly it actually becomes available to see.
I'm sure I will like it to a degree.
For the record, my favorite Dogma film is a nasty little piece about a theatical troupe stranded in the desert called The King Is Alive.

I've never seen that. Thanks for the recommendation. for a much, much lighter Dogma film, I liked Italian for Beginners.

[Gerald]

the original Funny Games by Michael Haneke.

The remake of this aggravated me. I didn't see the original but I understand they're basically the same film. The behavior of the couple I thought was totally idiotic and conducive to the captors maintaining the upper hand in the situation. We get it, Haneke, you want to break the fourth wall between performers and audience to make a profound statement about cinematic violence. I hope AntiChrist doesn't approach its subject matter with a similar level of ironic smugness.

[Gerald]

It's getting locked into release dates everywhere except the U.S.


France 18 May 2009 (Cannes Film Festival)
Denmark 20 May 2009
Italy 22 May 2009
Poland 29 May 2009
France 3 June 2009
Finland 5 June 2009
Norway 5 June 2009
Sweden 5 June 2009
UK 24 June 2009 (Edinburgh Film Festival)
UK 24 July 2009
Spain 21 August 2009
Russia 3 September 2009
Germany 10 September 2009
Brazil 11 September 2009
Romania 16 October 2009
Netherlands 29 October 2009


IFC Films will distribute it domestically, so it's a safe bet that we'll be able to demand it uncut since they have a day-and-date deal with cable providers.

[Gerald]

U.S. release date locked in:

http://www.getthebigpicture.net/blog/2009/6/24/lars-von-triers-antichrist-gets-us-release-date.html


One of the year's most controversial films is headed to a theater near you on October 23rd. That's the date Lars von Trier's Antichrist bows in New York and Los Angeles, several months after its debuts in most of Europe. In the UK, for example, the film opens uncut on July 24th.

Von Trier - whose work is never easy to digest, really - shocked audiences at Cannes with his new film, which stars Willem Dafoe and Charlotte Gainsbourg. He was diffident in press conferences about the reaction, and if nothing else, it was well-played publicity. The game was gobbled up by IFC for domestic distribution and has even inspired a video game spin-off.

If you're not on the coasts and you want to see Antichrist, you needn't wait past the 23rd of October, or even until then. IFC has a Video On Demand date of October 21st for the film, which is a very good strategy to reach cineastes in smaller cities where the film likely won't play. Of course, the one thing about VOD is that it's never properly marketed, so you never know the movies are available, but if they set it up right once, it might even work.

[Gvac]

I thought this was another Obama thread.

[K.C.]

I thought this was another Obama thread.

I thought this was the first chapter of Paulo's book.

[Gvac]

http://s-ec-sm.buzzfeed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2009/6/24/12/enhanced-buzz-5694-1245861180-14.jpg

[Gerald]

I caved in and watched an online stream of it. My anticipation got the better of me. I found it very potent. The actors give really brave performances and LvT reiterates that, for better or worse, he's a true artist. It's a film that's going to be continually revisited, discussed, analyzed and interpreted. I think it will be right up Paul's alley.

[yojimbo7248]

I caved in and watched an online stream of it. My anticipation got the better of me. I found it very potent. The actors give really brave performances and LvT reiterates that, for better or worse, he's a true artist. It's a film that's going to be continually revisted, discussed, analyzed and interpreted. I think it will be right up Paul's alley.

I can't wait to see it. It sounds like LvT's very honest, raw facing his depresssion.

[Gerald]

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[yojimbo7248]

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I heard about the talking fox causing laughter in Cannes.

[Gerald]

I heard about the talking fox causing laughter in Cannes.

At the Cannes post-screening junket Lars declared himself to be the best filmmaker in the world. Evidently he's put his crippling depression behind him and his self-confidence is renewed. He voiced the fox btw.

[thepaulo]

At the Cannes post-screening junket Lars declared himself to be the best filmmaker in the world. Evidently he's put his crippling depression behind him and his self-confidence is renewed. He voiced the fox btw.

There are very few today who choose to force discussion.....LvT is a new Goddard.

[Gerald]

Caller yesterday gave away the coup de grâce money shot. :nono:

[thepaulo]

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[KnoxHarrington]

I just have a feeling that if I ever do sit down to watch this mess, I'll laugh my ass off.

Chaos reigns!

[Slumbag]

So, I was watching this the other day.

It was good. It was emotional and really well shot, and Charlotte Gainsbourg and Dafoe were both outstanding.
Then:
The chick cuts her clit off and Willam Dafoe's dick starts shooting out blood.

That was rather fucking disturbing.

[Gerald]

I'm going to demand it this weekend.

I'm kicking myself for watching a shitty online stream of it instead of giving it the proper presentation it deserved.

[Kublakhan61]

There are very few today who choose to force discussion.....LvT is a new Goddard.

Woah - let's not get ahead of ourselves. 1. Godard is still making films, great films; 2. LvT may be forcing discussion but he is not a revolutionary.

Godard is at the height of the film-making pantheon, LvT is still making his name!

[KnoxHarrington]

Woah - let's not get ahead of ourselves. 1. Godard is still making films, great films; 2. LvT may be forcing discussion but he is not a revolutionary.

Godard is at the height of the film-making pantheon, LvT is still making his name!

Yeah, inspiring discussion like "Why the fuck did that chick cut her clit off with scissors?" isn't that much of a compliment.

[thepaulo]

Woah - let's not get ahead of ourselves. 1. Godard is still making films, great films; 2. LvT may be forcing discussion but he is not a revolutionary.

Godard is at the height of the film-making pantheon, LvT is still making his name!

I had to compare him to someone.

[Gerald]

I was doing some yardwork yesterday and the thought came to me that there aren't many true cinematic artists out there who have functioned outside of studio codependency their whole careers. LvT has still got to be the premier guy around in this regard. It would be a trip if he came to the states purely for the goof factor and was a gun for hire on a Jennifer Aniston rom-com or something.

[thepaulo]

He's not a very nice person. I don't think he would do meetings well.

[Kublakhan61]

I was doing some yardwork yesterday and the thought came to me that there aren't many true cinematic artists out there who have functioned outside of studio codependency their whole careers. LvT has still got to be the premier guy around in this regard. It would be a trip if he came to the states purely for the goof factor and was a gun for hire on a Jennifer Aniston rom-com or something.

Guy Maddin
Hal Hartley
Harmony Korine

Are a few who come to mind for me. What others have we got? I figure names like Herzog, Lynch, and Jarmusch are close to the mark but have all at some point made a studio picture, right? We're talking strictly independent of the 'system'?

[thepaulo]

Guy Maddin has great potential....the other two are done.

[thepaulo]

Guy Maddin
Hal Hartley
Harmony Korine

Are a few who come to mind for me. What others have we got? I figure names like Herzog, Lynch, and Jarmusch are close to the mark but have all at some point made a studio picture, right? We're talking strictly independent of the 'system'?

We don't have to put restrictions on this....
Lynch is still the ultimate independent inside or outside the system.

[Kublakhan61]

Guy Maddin has great potential....the other two are done.

You weren't feeling Mr. Lonely?

[thepaulo]

You weren't feeling Mr. Lonely?

Hal Hartley never really distinguished himself....
Mister Lonely is probably Korine's best film but he has no momentum...

we might as well talk about the films of Vincent Gallo and Crispin Glover

[Kublakhan61]

Hal Hartley never really distinguished himself....
Mister Lonely is probably Korine's best film but he has no momentum...

we might as well talk about the films of Vincent Gallo and Crispin Glover

Hmmm, You've got me. I can't defend against those comparisons to Gallo and Glover. Gallo had one brilliant film in him and now were stuck with him.

Paulo, you're still the movie king of .net!

[TheMojoPin]

"Outside the system"...whoopty-shit, porn is filmmaking "outside the system." Doesn't mean it's any good.

This movie is laughably bad. It's the cinematic equivalent of a crazy old man dropping his pants and screaming "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE!!! I'M SO SHOCKING!" Yawn. Try again, Lars.

[thepaulo]

"Outside the system"...whoopty-shit, porn is filmmaking "outside the system." Doesn't mean it's any good.

This movie is laughably bad. It's the cinematic equivalent of a crazy old man dropping his pants and screaming "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE!!! I'M SO SHOCKING!" Yawn. Try again, Lars.

That's a legitimate criticism but....
one could just as easily say that the film is brillant examination of unchartered areas of human emotion. Is it art ot is it porn?

[ChrisBrown]

"Outside the system"...whoopty-shit, porn is filmmaking "outside the system." Doesn't mean it's any good.

This movie is laughably bad. It's the cinematic equivalent of a crazy old man dropping his pants and screaming "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE!!! I'M SO SHOCKING!" Yawn. Try again, Lars.



I'm assuming you've seen it

[TheMojoPin]

I'm assuming you've seen it

Yes.

It's really not very good at all. Paul-O, your suggestion of it "exploring uncharted human emotion" doesn't really fly because for everything we see depicted this film is as detached and as unemotional as one could get. It feels nothing, depicts nothing and as such I felt nothing. It's also way too "glossy" for the scattershot vision LvT was going for. It fits right in with the "best" of the torture porn garbage we've been seeing for years now. It's exploitation simply for the sake of having asbolutely nothing to say.

[thepaulo]

Yes.

It's really not very good at all. Paul-O, your suggestion of it "exploring uncharted human emotion" doesn't really fly because for everything we see depicted this film is as detached and as unemotional as one could get. It feels nothing, depicts nothing and as such I felt nothing. It's also way too "glossy" for the scattershot vision LvT was going for. It fits right in with the "best" of the torture porn garbage we've been seeing for years now. It's exploitation simply for the sake of having asbolutely nothing to say.

What of two people exploring the lowest depths of despair?

I think of Last Tango in Paris where a man engages in obsessive sex as a way to postpone his eventual suicide.

[TheMojoPin]

What of two people exploring the lowest depths of despair?

I think of Last Tango in Paris where a man engages in obsessive sex as a way to postpone his eventual suicide.

There is no despair. It carries all the emotional weight of an overdone music video.

[KnoxHarrington]

There is no despair. It carries all the emotional weight of an overdone music video.

Last Tango In Paris might be one of the most desperately overrated movies ever.

It's the creepy fantasies of a 50 year old who wishes he could butt fuck a hot young blond without having to have a real relationship with her.

Which don't make you a bad person.

[thepaulo]

I think we should look at what the film is....

It's beautifully photographed.
It's well acted.
It has the emotional feel of a typical art film.
It has an intellectual bent where it attempts to explore the effectiveness of psychological therapy.
It is hard to pin down and yet it might be easy to simplify.
It is open to interpretation.
LVT is certainly fucking with our heads.
It is extremely shocking at times in the context of an extremely dry Bergmanesque atmosphere. But if anyone saw Cries and Whispers, Bergman has dealt with genital mutilation as well.

Overall, I think it's one of the better pictures of the year. It is certainly better than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

[Serpico1103]

Overall, I think it's one of the better pictures of the year. It is certainly better than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

Movie snob!

[thepaulo]

Movie snob!

touche

[razorboy]

It's well acted.


Let's stop right there.

[thepaulo]

Let's stop right there.

I will not.

[Gerald]

Charlotte Gainsbourg's debut album - written and produced by none other than Beck - just dropped in Europe. Not sure of the domestic timetable of release. Here's the video for the first single (which I really dig):

<object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=7703592&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=7703592&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/7703592">Charlotte Gainsbourg - Heaven Can Wait</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/charlotteg">Charlotte Gainsbourg</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Charlotte is a lady who should be brought up if Ron ever strikes up a conversation again about "oddly hot" women in the public eye.

[JDE]

Charlotte Gainsbourg's debut album - written and produced by none other than Beck - just dropped in Europe. Not sure of the domestic timetable of release. Here's the video for the first single (which I really dig):

<object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=7703592&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=7703592&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ad ef&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/7703592">Charlotte Gainsbourg - Heaven Can Wait</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/charlotteg">Charlotte Gainsbourg</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Charlotte is a lady who should be brought up if Ron ever strikes up a conversation again about "oddly hot" women in the public eye.

This is her second album, not her first, she put out 5.55 a couple of years ago, and it's good. I have not heard her new one yet, but I will check it out soon.

[Gerald]

This is her second album, not her first, she put out 5.55 a couple of years ago, and it's good.

Ahh. Maybe being backed by Beck will enable her musical career to take flight across the globe.

She's a triple threat: actor, singer, and atypical beauty. I think she's great. I hope she gets an Oscar Nom for Antichrist. Even the film's haters should be able to acknowledge that she took her performance to the limit.

[fezident]

I read THIS as a review for ANTICHRIST.
"It is Bruegel and Bosch and Bacon and Memling engulfed in evil and depravity, blood, guts and sin.
It is Manichean cosmogony of pain and tortured apocrypha enveloped in surreal photography- pure rhythm of light and dark and despair. A must see!"

An early contender for most elaborate snobbery of 2010 indeed.

[thepaulo]

early elaborate effluent extroadinary effusive and perhaps a bit excessive

[fezident]

I finally saw this movie, and I couldn't be more disappointed.
It felt cheap. It seemed desperate. It felt amateur. (although... it was SHOT quite well and was visually interesting)

The story, such as it was, was a total misfire. I did not connect with their (her) grief, nor did I feel like the actress was connected to it. It seemed to me like she was more connected to the ROLE. Almost like she was more interested in making a movie rather than telling a story.

This movie was about as subtle as TRANSFORMERS 2. And every bit as "notice me!" in it's Direction.


Skip it.

[thepaulo]

I finally saw this movie, and I couldn't be more disappointed.
It felt cheap. It seemed desperate. It felt amateur. (although... it was SHOT quite well and was visually interesting)

The story, such as it was, was a total misfire. I did not connect with their (her) grief, nor did I feel like the actress was connected to it. It seemed to me like she was more connected to the ROLE. Almost like she was more interested in making a movie rather than telling a story.

This movie was about as subtle as TRANSFORMERS 2. And every bit as "notice me!" in it's Direction.


Skip it.

Actually the good thing about this movie is you could say just about anything about it and be right.

[fezident]

Actually the good thing about this movie is you could say just about anything about it and be right.

I don't see how that's a good thing but, okay...


This movie was a film making exercise. A demo. An experiment.
On that level, and on that level alone, I suppose it could be considered a success. It was a class on "fearless acting". Mission accomplished.


But was it a good MOVIE??
Was it a good STORY? Does the audience actually care about the characters and where they'll end up? I say "no". And I simply don't see how another audience member could argue otherwise.

Of course... I'm in no position to tell anyone what they can or can't enjoy. It's on them. But.. having said that... I think it's fairly obvious that we were supposed to be more interested in the shocking visuals than in the journey of the characters. And to me... that's cheap film making.

[thepaulo]

I don't see how that's a good thing but, okay...


This movie was a film making exercise. A demo. An experiment.
On that level, and on that level alone, I suppose it could be considered a success. It was a class on "fearless acting". Mission accomplished.


But was it a good MOVIE??
Was it a good STORY? Does the audience actually care about the characters and where they'll end up? I say "no". And I simply don't see how another audience member could argue otherwise.

Of course... I'm in no position to tell anyone what they can or can't enjoy. It's on them. But.. having said that... I think it's fairly obvious that we were supposed to be more interested in the shocking visuals than in the journey of the characters. And to me... that's cheap film making.

everything you said was right again....why would we want every movie experience to set the same goals....different goals and objectives are a good thing.

[realmenhatelife]

I know I saw a bunch of provocative imagery, but it didn't actually provoke anything in me. I didn't want to think about it, not in a repulsed way, in an indifferent way. I didn't even really want to figure out what LvT was trying to do. Nothing about the movie engaged me, and had the idea that it may be difficult to get a copy of this movie not been floated, I probably wouldn't have ever been interested in it.

My reaction to any artistic experiment is that there is a bare minimum of convention that is required. Some kind of discipline makes the experiment richer. All art is artificial, and I dont find an exploration of emotion through fictional imagery any more truthful than a fully fleshed out narrative.

[underdog]

<object width="480" height="430"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://media.theonion.com/flash/video/embedded_player.swf?&videoid=14403" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed src="http://media.theonion.com/flash/video/embedded_player.swf"type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="480" height="430"flashvars="videoid=14403"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://www.theonion.com/articles/video,14403/">Denmark Introduces Harrowing New Tourism Ads Directed By Lars Von Trier</a>

[keithy_19]

<object width="480" height="430"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://media.theonion.com/flash/video/embedded_player.swf?&videoid=14403" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed src="http://media.theonion.com/flash/video/embedded_player.swf"type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="480" height="430"flashvars="videoid=14403"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://www.theonion.com/articles/video,14403/">Denmark Introduces Harrowing New Tourism Ads Directed By Lars Von Trier</a>

:lol: