Cops can plant GPS on your car without warrant.

[BinaryTaoist]

Wow this story kind of scares me... actually it inspires me to mayhem... If I lived in Wisconsin (I'd probably kill myself) I'd be inclined to secretly plant a GPS on the privately owned cars of police officers and that attorney general J.B. Van Hollen.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-gps-police,0,5890193.story

MADISON, Wis. - Wisconsin police can attach GPS to cars to secretly track anybody's movements without obtaining search warrants, an appeals court ruled Thursday.

However, the District 4 Court of Appeals said it was "more than a little troubled" by that conclusion and asked Wisconsin lawmakers to regulate GPS use to protect against abuse by police and private individuals.

As the law currently stands, the court said police can mount GPS on cars to track people without violating their constitutional rights -- even if the drivers aren't suspects.

Officers do not need to get warrants beforehand because GPS tracking does not involve a search or a seizure, Judge Paul Lundsten wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel based in Madison.



That means "police are seemingly free to secretly track anyone's public movements with a GPS device," he wrote.

One privacy advocate said the decision opened the door for greater government surveillance of citizens. Meanwhile, law enforcement officials called the decision a victory for public safety because tracking devices are an increasingly important tool in investigating criminal behavior.

The ruling came in a 2003 case involving Michael Sveum, a Madison man who was under investigation for stalking. Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway. The device recorded his car's movements for five weeks before police retrieved it and downloaded the information.

The information suggested Sveum was stalking the woman, who had gone to police earlier with suspicions. Police got a second warrant to search his car and home, found more evidence and arrested him. He was convicted of stalking and sentenced to prison.

Sveum, 41, argued the tracking violated his Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. He argued the device followed him into areas out of public view, such as his garage.

The court disagreed. The tracking did not violate constitutional protections because the device only gave police information that could have been obtained through visual surveillance, Lundsten wrote.

Even though the device followed Sveum's car to private places, an officer tracking Sveum could have seen when his car entered or exited a garage, Lundsten reasoned. Attaching the device was not a violation, he wrote, because Sveum's driveway is a public place.

"We discern no privacy interest protected by the Fourth Amendment that is invaded when police attach a device to the outside of a vehicle, as long as the information obtained is the same as could be gained by the use of other techniques that do not require a warrant," he wrote.

Although police obtained a warrant in this case, it wasn't needed, he added.

Larry Dupuis, legal director of the ACLU of Wisconsin, said using GPS to track someone's car goes beyond observing them in public and should require a warrant.

"The idea that you can go and attach anything you want to somebody else's property without any court supervision, that's wrong," he said. "Without a warrant, they can do this on anybody they want."

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's office, which argued in favor of the warrantless GPS tracking, praised the ruling but would not elaborate on its use in Wisconsin.

David Banaszynski, president of the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, said his department in the Milwaukee suburb of Shorewood does not use GPS. But other departments might use it to track drug dealers, burglars and stalkers, he said.

A state law already requires the Department of Corrections to track the state's most dangerous sex offenders using GPS. The author of that law, Rep. Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, said the decision shows "GPS tracking is an effective means of protecting public safety."

[jessicaduh]

there's no way in hell i'm reading all of that.

[hammersavage]

Long story short: Wisconsin sucks a bag of dicks

[brettmojo]

Why does it say that cops can do it without obtaining a warrant when later in the article they say the cops obtained a warrant to do it in the first place?

The ruling came in a 2003 case involving Michael Sveum, a Madison man who was under investigation for stalking. Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway. The device recorded his car's movements for five weeks before police retrieved it and downloaded the information.

[FezsAssistant]

Obama is letting this happen. Don't forget.

[jessicaduh]

Long story short: Wisconsin sucks a bag of dicks

did we really need a thread and a 5,000,000 word long post in order to identify that?

[brettmojo]

Obama is letting this happen. Don't forget.
All government is letting this happen. Don't forget about Bush letting the CIA/FBI and whoever wiretap anyone they wanted to. What did you say to that? Oh yeah, "AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE." How's that going?

[hammersavage]

did we really need a thread and a 5,000,000 word long post in order to identify that?

I guess you could have just talked with epo for 3 to 5 seconds to come to the same conclusion

[spoon]

Wow, that's really bullshit to say the least. I hate when our safety is used as the motivators to give up our freedoms and privacy. Sorry, why would it be so hard to get a fucking warrant on people needed, as they did (even though it seems they didn't need to) here. If you have a past record (such as the sex offenders) or there is enough reason to get a warrant, why not keep that practice. It's seemingly the same issue people have had with wire taps in the recent past and it's bullshit. It's the whole reason for the warrant in the first place, to protect the public at large.

[spoon]

Why does it say that cops can do it without obtaining a warrant when later in the article they say the cops obtained a warrant to do it in the first place?

It's the main point of the article, read it again. Due to the results of this case, now even a warrant won't be needed. This douche tried to get out of a stalking charge bc his rights were violated, even though they had reason and a warrant to back them. Now, one needs pretty much nothing to track your movements in Epo land.

Get on this bullshit Epo!

[O&A Sycophant #155]

Cops have a very difficult and dangerous job as it is. If they can do something that will make their job easier, you'd be unpatriotic to be against it. They bust their asses day in and day out to protect us and our families from the savagery of the world (which is starting to move out of the inner cities and into the suburbs). This could also be used to track people who are trafficking Mexicans into this country, which is contributing to a lot of the economic problems we are having today.

[brettmojo]

It's the main point of the article, read it again. Due to the results of this case, now even a warrant won't be needed. This douche tried to get out of a stalking charge bc his rights were violated, even though they had reason and a warrant to back them. Now, one needs pretty much nothing to track your movements in Epo land.

Get on this bullshit Epo!
This reeks Supreme Court bound.

[FezsAssistant]

All government is letting this happen. Don't forget about Bush letting the CIA/FBI and whoever wiretap anyone they wanted to. What did you say to that? Oh yeah, "AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE." How's that going?

For the last 8 years it was ONLY Bush and the GOP who was letting it happen. Now, conveniently, it's 'everyone'.

[Cyber Trucker]

Cops have a very difficult and dangerous job as it is. If they can do something that will make their job easier, you'd be unpatriotic to be against it. They bust their asses day in and day out to protect us and our families from the savagery of the world (which is starting to move out of the inner cities and into the suburbs). This could also be used to track people who are trafficking Mexicans into this country, which is contributing to a lot of the economic problems we are having today.

Nice what it was no problem as long as the poor, niggers or spics deal with crime but as soon as white people have to we have to fight it by any means. I like what these cops are doing but unpatriotic please.

[brettmojo]

For the last 8 years it was ONLY Bush and the GOP who was letting it happen. Now, conveniently, it's 'everyone'.
It not "convenient" he happened to be in power when the door for this crap swung open after 9/11. He and the Republicans chose to walk through it. If the Dem were in charge who knows they probably would have done the same I don't know. But it was Bush so yes, he gets the blame.

[brettmojo]

Nice what it was no problem as long as the poor, niggers or spics deal with crime but as soon as white people have to we have to fight it by any means.
Well they are the ones that cause all the crime. Duh.

[spoon]

Cops have a very difficult and dangerous job as it is. If they can do something that will make their job easier, you'd be unpatriotic to be against it. They bust their asses day in and day out to protect us and our families from the savagery of the world (which is starting to move out of the inner cities and into the suburbs). This could also be used to track people who are trafficking Mexicans into this country, which is contributing to a lot of the economic problems we are having today.

Ok, let's slow down. I have a TON of friends that are cops and they're just as fucked up as you and I. Sorry, I don't buy your argument in the least. Yes cops have a dangerous job...which they get PAID to do just like the crews on the deadliest catch.

[brettmojo]

I'd like to hear from O&A Sycophant #154 on this matter.

[tanless1]

All Oh yeah, "AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE." How's that going?

...and Clinton started the rendition program.
dont get to cocky/snarky; Mo.

[HBox]

Cops have a very difficult and dangerous job as it is. If they can do something that will make their job easier, you'd be unpatriotic to be against it.

That's incredibly stupid.

[ScottFromGA]

All government is letting this happen. Don't forget about Bush letting the CIA/FBI and whoever wiretap anyone they wanted to. What did you say to that? Oh yeah, "AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE." How's that going?

BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH!!! ITS ALL HIS FAULT!!!!!

OBAMA IS OUR NEW JEEEBUS!!!


(thats all I see when I read this post....actually I didn't, I just wanted to post some bullshit cause my bullshit quota is at negative today....)

[HBox]

How the hell does Obama get dragged into this? This is a court issue. He doesn't control the judiciary.

[ScottFromGA]

It not "convenient" he happened to be in power when the door for this crap swung open after 9/11. He and the Republicans chose to walk through it. If the Dem were in charge who knows they probably would have done the same I don't know. But it was Bush so yes, he gets the blame.

9/11!! 9/11!! BUSH ADMINISTRATION!!! INSIDE JOB, INSIDE JOB!!! WHITE PLANE!!! DOOMSDAY!!!! WE KNEW, WE KNEW!!


once again...to fill the quota....nothing personal. :)

[ScottFromGA]

That's incredibly stupid.

i concur....that statement reeked of communism.

[spoon]

I'd like to hear from O&A Sycophant #154 on this matter.

Ha!

That's incredibly stupid.

I agree 100%, with just a touch more tact.

[O&A Sycophant #155]

By the way, this is completely legal. If you are driving on public roads, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. All if this is laid out in U.S. vs. Knotts (http://supreme.justia.com/us/460/276), if any of you libs bothered to look into precedent before giving your knee-jerk reactions.

[HBox]

By the way, this is completely legal. If you are driving on public roads, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. All if this is laid out in U.S. vs. Knotts (http://supreme.justia.com/us/460/276), if any of you libs bothered to look into precedent before giving your knee-jerk reactions.

I thought it was legal because the appeals court just said it was but I guess I was wrong. It's legal because Don Knotts was trying to buy some chloroform back in 1983.

[spoon]

By the way, this is completely legal. If you are driving on public roads, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. All if this is laid out in U.S. vs. Knotts (http://supreme.justia.com/us/460/276), if any of you libs bothered to look into precedent before giving your knee-jerk reactions.

You are forgetting that it logs your actions/travels for any length of time and works by being placed on your PERSONAL property without your knowledge. Let's not just call this black and white to fit your argument bc you hate "libs". Are you so blind that you can't see anything bad coming from this!? You can't be serious.

[Cyber Trucker]

You are forgetting that it logs your actions/travels for any length of time and works by being placed on your PERSONAL property without your knowledge. Let's not just call this black and white to fit your argument bc you hate "libs". Are you so blind that you can't see anything bad coming from this!? You can't be serious.

You said that better than I could thanks.

[HBox]

You are forgetting that it logs your actions/travels for any length of time and works by being placed on your PERSONAL property without your knowledge. Let's not just call this black and white to fit your argument bc you hate "libs". Are you so blind that you can't see anything bad coming from this!? You can't be serious.

Only a socialist little faggot would say something like that.

[tanless1]

still think it should require a warrant. used to be , i'd just chuck my cell phone if i didnt want to be tracked.... yes, i understand the police have a difficult job.... but the way we are going ( if you voted for barr, or you disagree w/ the tax system you may find your self on the DHS list) we as a nation/people are in a lot of trble. its becoming incredibly difficult to hide in a cave anymore.
.... and just Because a precident has been set doesnt make it right. sure, it makes it legal (for a time), but not right.

[HBox]

still think it should require a warrant. used to be , i'd just chuck my cell phone if i didnt want to be tracked.... yes, i understand the police have a difficult job.... but the way we are going ( if you voted for barr, or you disagree w/ the tax system you may find your self on the DHS list) we as a nation/people are in a lot of trble. its becoming incredibly difficult to hide in a cave anymore.
.... and just Because a precident has been set doesnt make it right. sure, it makes it legal (for a time), but not right.

You hate America.

[Cyber Trucker]

Wtf Hbox

[cougarjake13]

Why does it say that cops can do it without obtaining a warrant when later in the article they say the cops obtained a warrant to do it in the first place?

b/c back then they needed to


now with the ruling they dont have to

[O&A Sycophant #155]

You are forgetting that it logs your actions/travels for any length of time and works by being placed on your PERSONAL property without your knowledge. Let's not just call this black and white to fit your argument bc you hate "libs". Are you so blind that you can't see anything bad coming from this!? You can't be serious.

I'll wait until tomorrow's show and if Anthony is against this then I will change my mind.

[tanless1]

....and i want obama's longform birth certificate as well as his college aplications....and what school did he go to that didnt allow american citizens into the country ?
.... and we only consider the constituition when its convienent ? we are in a heap of trouble.

[SatCam]

I wish I was interesting enough to be tracked :down:

[keithy_19]

It not "convenient" he happened to be in power when the door for this crap swung open after 9/11. He and the Republicans chose to walk through it. If the Dem were in charge who knows they probably would have done the same I don't know. But it was Bush so yes, he gets the blame.

And Obama has done nothing to take it away.

I hate the blame one party/person thing. It's most people in government.

[keithy_19]

I wish I was interesting enough to be tracked :down:

:wink:

[brettmojo]

And Obama has done nothing to take it away.

I hate the blame one party/person thing. It's most people in government.
Which is what I said.

And I think Obama is busy at the moment trying to fix or destroy the economy... Depending on who you ask.

[Cyber Trucker]

This needs to move up though the courts before we put the blame on someone. Pete Dominick might have something to say abouth this his show is on Potus xm130 @ 3pm. he would make a good addition to 202.

[joethebartender]

I wish they'd mount a GPS to my car... I'm terrible with maps.

[Ritalin]

Long story short: Wisconsin sucks a bag of dicks

Whoa whoa whoa. You should be so lucky to live in such a beautiful state.

[landarch]

Cops have a very difficult and dangerous job as it is. If they can do something that will make their job easier, you'd be unpatriotic to be against it. They bust their asses day in and day out to protect us and our families from the savagery of the world (which is starting to move out of the inner cities and into the suburbs). This could also be used to track people who are trafficking Mexicans into this country, which is contributing to a lot of the economic problems we are having today.

You're kidding right??

I don't give a rat's ass how difficult a cop's job is. "Making it easier" is not patriotic. So, bust your ass all day to make us safer. You knew what you were signing on for when you took this job so quit whining. See what happens when you don't bust your ass to keep us safe--you'll be out on your ass without the power of your badge and your free Dunkin' DOnuts coffee. Then who will sit idle in your car waiting for some unsuspecting commuter to harass on his way home from work. "I don't like the way you drive, so here's a bill from the state for $400" Fuck you. Who will saunter up to a minor fender bender with seven other cop cars to waste more taxpayer dollars. Fuck you. You want to be protected from the savagery of the world? Get an education, move out of the trailer park, an dbe a productive member of society.

Unpatriotic? Go watch more Fox News Channel. See what other stupid shit you can conjure up. How can anyone with a brain be in favor of secret GPS on your own private car. Fucking pigs.

[epo]

How the hell does Obama get dragged into this? This is a court issue. He doesn't control the judiciary.

This is a state issue. And if they want to get political, JB Van Hollen, the state's attorney general is a republican, so conservatives who play the blame game can smoke my pole on this one.

[epo]

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this week: (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/44535492.html)

The 4th District Court of Appeals on Thursday upheld the secret use by police of a GPS tracking device to gather evidence against a Dane County man accused of stalking an ex-girlfriend.

But the court also urged the state Legislature to consider regulating police and private use of the technology.

In a decision written by Judge Paul Lundsten, the court found that police use of the tracking information was not a violation of Michael Sveum's constitutional right to be free of unreasonable search and seizures, but the court went on to say:

"We are more than a little troubled by the conclusion that no Fourth Amendment search or seizure occurs when police use a GPS or similar device as they have here. So far as we can tell, existing law does not limit the government's use of tracking devices to investigations of legitimate criminal suspects. If there is no Fourth Amendment search or seizure, police are seemingly free to secretly track anyone's public movements with a GPS device."

Lundsten added that the court, sitting in Madison, also is concerned about the private use of global positioning system surveillance devices. While there are legitimate private uses, "there are also many private uses that most reasonable people would agree should be prohibited."

In other words, the non-activist court told the state government to get its shit together and pass some legislation restricting this shit.