Arlen Specter - Democrat?

[HBox]

Looks like it might be happening. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0409/Report_Specter_switching_to_Dems.html?showall)

I guess this makes it even more unlikely that Minnesota will have a Senator any time soon.

[Syd]

I forget the exact scenario he is in but him and Snowe can basically tell the GOP their demands for chairs and so on and so forthand if they don't meet them, the Democrats have a good consolation prize for them.

[Fezticle98]

Confirmed.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/specter-to-switch-parties.html?hpid=topnews

[jessicaduh]

i doubt any party really wants him.

[Fezticle98]

i doubt any party really wants him.

I disagree.

[epo]

This really isn't a shock as Biden has been trying to recruit him for some time. I'd put him in the camp with Lieberman as guys who play the middle quite well.

For Specter, this is his best chance for survival in 2010, as the republican party was planning on going after him hard in the primary.

[burrben]

i doubt any party really wants him.

i know i'd never invite him. terrible at keg stands.

[epo]

i doubt any party really wants him.

I couldn't disagree more.....

A possible 60th vote for cloture in the Senate makes him the hottest commodity in Washington at the moment.

[jessicaduh]

i know i'd never invite him. terrible at keg stands.

that's more where i was going.

[LordJezo]

This is scary stuff.

Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.

With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

[Dude!]

This really isn't a shock as Biden has been trying to recruit him for some time. I'd put him in the camp with Lieberman as guys who play the middle quite well.

For Specter, this is his best chance for survival in 2010, as the republican party was planning on going after him hard in the primary.

i want to make it clear
i blame specter for this

[ChrisTheCop]

With Specter leaving, republicans dont have a Ghost of a chance.

:wink:

[topless_mike]

well, reagan switched parties as well.

was there any fallout from that?


really, imo, switching parties is a good thing. to me, it helps show the sheep where your true priorities are. what good is a republican senator that acts like a democrat anyways? (and vice-versa).


:glurps:
i have to agree with Jezo on this.

The gov now has its hands in the banking and housing industry. it's tried to take over the auto industry, as well as (if not yet, then soon) the healthcare industry. now they are on the verge of pretty much being unstopable with passing bills (60 seats/enough to overthrow any fillibuster).

i dont like this.
scary times for us common folk, regardless of who you voted for.

[AKA]

This is scary stuff.

Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.

With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

Nope - this is great stuff.

Nothing seems to sink into the GOP that they need to have a fundamental change from top to bottom - fewer people than ever before identify themselves as Republicans, and for once they can't blame the LIBERALS or THE MEDIA. They'll try, but the more they spin the same, tired excuses, the more than look like they are wedded to the past.

America is in zero danger of becoming a "dictatorship" - far less so than we were when Bush was in office. This is just natural selection taking place, and if (or when) the day that Obama's reach goes too far, the pendulum will swing back around and he and his policies will be out of office. Until then, the tears and whining of the arrogant douche bags who spent a good 8 years destroying this country soothe me.

[KatPw]

This is scary stuff.

Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.

With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

You must have the biggest tinfoil hat in the universe. How do you hold all that weight up? A dictatorship, really? Were you screaming about dictatorships when the Republicans controlled the White House, the Senate, and Congress?

[LordJezo]

You must have the biggest tinfoil hat in the universe. How do you hold all that weight up? A dictatorship, really? Were you screaming about dictatorships when the Republicans controlled the White House, the Senate, and Congress?

Nope, because back then the government wasn't trying to socialize everything and lead us into a path where people no longer have any control over anything. Now those in power want to not only run the government but also all aspects of private life. They will run the banks, decide on where we get our healthcare, control private business such as the auto industry, and there will be no way to stop them. Personal freedoms will go away and there will simply be the government that runs everything. Soon we'll be no different than Venezuela.

[KatPw]

Nope, because back then the government wasn't trying to socialize everything and lead us into a path where people no longer have any control over anything. Now those in power want to not only run the government but also all aspects of private life. They will run the banks, decide on where we get our healthcare, control private business such as the auto industry, and there will be no way to stop them. Personal freedoms will go away and there will simply be the government that runs everything. Soon we'll be no different than Venezuela.

People already decide where you get your healthcare, it's called your insurance company. Do you know how many of my patients have left our practice because their insurance company won't pay for them to go out of network? Many, many patients. When you retire and go on Medicare, guess who decides where you get your healthcare? The government, always has been. The auto industry would still be private if not for them coming to the government with their hands out. They should have just faced the fact that no one wants their product and they should have folded. Wouldn't that be the true essence of the free-market, letting companies fail? And what personal freedoms are being taken away exactly? Those on the right used to ask that question all the time under the Bush administration when people on the left made comments about personal freedoms being taken away, so I think that is just as valid as a question to ask under the Obama administration. What freedoms are being taken away?

[beachbum]

Nope, because back then the government wasn't trying to socialize everything and lead us into a path where people no longer have any control over anything. Now those in power want to not only run the government but also all aspects of private life. They will run the banks, decide on where we get our healthcare, control private business such as the auto industry, and there will be no way to stop them. Personal freedoms will go away and there will simply be the government that runs everything. Soon we'll be no different than Venezuela.

No,really,I see your point.Deregulation and corporatization worked so well.I just wish we could have had eight more years of it.

[epo]

This is scary stuff.

Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.

With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

I've sent in my requests, and they are as follows:

1. Take Anthony Cumia's guns
2. Torture Sean Hannity
3. Put Lord Jezo in a "training camp".

Its gonna be the best. You'll see!

[Syd]

no taxation without white representation

-lordjero

[ToiletCrusher]

Sounds great. I'm sure he will make a tremendous impact on how the Democratic party conducts business and carries itself.

[LordJezo]

I've sent in my requests, and they are as follows:

1. Take Anthony Cumia's guns
2. Torture Sean Hannity
3. Put Lord Jezo in a "training camp".

Its gonna be the best. You'll see!

Do I get to keep my guns?

[epo]

Do I get to keep my guns?

No.

And you'll be forced into a gay marriage.

[KatPw]

No.

And you'll be forced into a gay marriage.

And the mandatory abortions. Don't forget those.

[HBox]

I just want to make sure he has to pay for sex change operations for convicted felons.

[epo]

And the mandatory abortions. Don't forget those.

Silly rabbit....unless Lord Jezo has an ass-baby...he won't be having an abortion.

[epo]

Two Republicans blame conservatives (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21802.html)

Two leading Republicans say Sen. Arlen Specter's decision to become a Democrat highlights the hostility moderates feel from an increasingly conservative GOP.

“You haven't certainly heard warm encouraging words about how [the GOP] views moderates,” said Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe, one of the few remaining moderate Republicans in the Senate.

Snowe said the party's message has been, “Either you're with us or you’re against us.”

Her frustration was shared by Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.), who slammed right-wing interest groups for pushing moderates out of the party.

Specter switched parties Tuesday after a recent poll showed him badly losing a Pennsylvania Republican primary next year to Club for Growth founder Pat Toomey. Toomey’s staunchly fiscally conservative political action committee backs only those Republicans who support a low-tax, limited-government agenda and comes down hard on those who break with party orthodoxy.

"I don't want to be a member of the Club for Growth,” said Graham. “I want to be a member of a vibrant national Republican party that can attract people from all corners of the country — and we can govern the country from a center-right perspective.”

“As Republicans, we got a problem,” he said.

The internal criticism came less than an hour before Specter walked into the Republicans' weekly Senate luncheon, where members discuss strategy, policy and other key items on the party agenda.

Snowe criticized party leadership for failing to change its tone after Republicans lost six Senate seats in the 2006 election.

“I happened to win with 74 percent of the vote in a blue-collar state, but no one asked me, 'How did you do it?'” she said. “Seems to me that would have been the first question that would have come from the Republican Party to find out so we could avoid further losses."

“Ultimately, we're heading to having the smallest political tent in history, the way things are unfolding,” Snowe said.

Can you smell the implosion of the Republican Party? I do.

[DolaMight]

This is the man who will break any philibusters? Obama's desperate.
http://patterico.com/files/2009/04/phil-spector-frizz.jpg

[CurseoftheBambi]

This is scary stuff.

Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.

With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

didja have any of this world view when you know Bush took away habeus corpus or the patriot act....just asking!:annoyed:

[FezsAssistant]

Nope - this is great stuff.

Nothing seems to sink into the GOP that they need to have a fundamental change from top to bottom - fewer people than ever before identify themselves as Republicans, and for once they can't blame the LIBERALS or THE MEDIA. They'll try, but the more they spin the same, tired excuses, the more than look like they are wedded to the past.

America is in zero danger of becoming a "dictatorship" - far less so than we were when Bush was in office. This is just natural selection taking place, and if (or when) the day that Obama's reach goes too far, the pendulum will swing back around and he and his policies will be out of office. Until then, the tears and whining of the arrogant douche bags who spent a good 8 years destroying this country soothe me.

both major parties are becoming more and more extremist. that's not a good thing.
you can't get more irrationally liberal than obama. the right thinks that embracing the crazy religous shit will help them.
as citizens of the US we are completely fucked.

[KnoxHarrington]

I'd be more worried about the Democratic party getting 60 seats if the Republican Party were actually offering any real counterproposals to Obama, or any substantive criticism beyond "OMG SOCIALISM!!!11!!" Given the state of the party now, fuck 'em. Hit the bricks, dummies.

[EliSnow]

you can't get more irrationally liberal than obama.

Yes, yes, you can.

[underdog]

you can't get more irrationally liberal than obama

I'm pretty sure that's not correct.

[epo]

you can't get more irrationally liberal than obama.

Yes, yes, you can.

http://twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2009/02/dennis_kucinich.jpg

There are plenty of people in government more liberal than President Obama. What the republican party needs to understand is that our nation has moved from "center-right" to "center-left" and they only have themselves to blame.

[EliSnow]

What the republican party needs to understand is that our nation has moved from "center-right" to "center-left" and they only have themselves to blame.

But epo, EVERYONE knows that if you're more liberal than center-right, you are a socialist and irrationally liberal.

[underdog]

But epo, EVERYONE knows that if you're more liberal than center-right, you are a socialist and irrationally liberal.

Weren't people also calling Obama a fascist?

[HBox]

ARGLE BARGLE SOCIALISM ARGLE BARGLE LIBERAL ARGLE BARGLE FASCISM ARGLE BARGLE ANYTHING BUT THINK ABOUT HOW MY OWN IDEOLOGY HAS FAILED AND BEEN SOUNDLY REJECTED ARGLE BARGLE COMMUNISM.

[EliSnow]

Weren't people also calling Obama a fascist?

Well, the Nazi's were socialist and fascist at the same time.

[hammersavage]

Who gives a crap if they're socialists? They could be fascist anarchists, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

[epo]

Who gives a crap if they're socialists? They could be fascist anarchists, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

That's because you my friend are a dirty hippie.

[hammersavage]

Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.

[underdog]

Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.

This could be the single greatest post I've ever seen.

[FezsAssistant]

dems and republicans are exactly the same as fans of professional wrestling.
they don't even realize how ignorant they are.

[underdog]

dems and republicans are exactly the same as fans of professional wrestling.
they don't even realize how ignorant they are.

That's not true. I'm sure plenty of wrestling fans realize what's going on.

[HBox]

dems and republicans are exactly the same as fans of professional wrestling.
they don't even realize how ignorant they are.

Any other Ron quotes you want to throw out or do you have any original thoughts?

[beachbum]

Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.

Sooooorrrry,sooo sooooorrrry.
"And heres another clue for you all,
the walrus was Paul."

[Serpico1103]

This is scary stuff.
Obama is basically gaining complete control over everything and there will be no way to stop any of his whims now.
With this switch the road to ultimate dictatorship has been opened up. We can expect to start seeing more and more UN rules being placed on American citizens and our basic rights taken away as the Obama world agenda now has an express route to become American law.

If you didn't allow your self to become such a cliche your posts might have relevance.

What is an "ultimate dictatorship" as opposed to a dictatorship?

What UN rules have we seen placed on US citizens, as you see we will see "more and more," implying that we already have some.

What is Natalie Portman doing while the Emperor takes over the Republic?

[scottinnj]

What is Natalie Portman doing while the Emperor takes over the Republic?

Growing the fetuses of freedom in her belly while her husband went nuts.

Help us Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope.

[A.J.]

Someone misses being a committee chairman.

[The Jays]

No one was bitching when the Republicans had all the power. Now, Democrats will eventually have a filibuster-proof majority.

Why the fuck does everybody on the other side have to be so extreme with their opposition? That this will be the path towards socialism. It's fucking ridiculous, and it's all because the word liberal doesn't have the same power anymore, in fact, it's more of a good thing than a bad thing to be a liberal, so they just go onto the next slur down the line.

It gives people who are actually Socialists, like Bernie Sanders, a bad name.

[foodcourtdruide]

Clearly, not all republicans are being over-reactionary, but the Lord Jezo's of the world are really distorting any message that they are trying to put out.

Can you guys please get it together? The way the republicans are acting is not good for the country. They are disenfranchising everyone except for the fringe. What seems to be happening is an overwhelming majority of the country are on one side, while an extremely vocal minority is on the other. What happens when it becomes 70-30 instead of 60-40?

[AKA]

What happens when it becomes 70-30 instead of 60-40?

The Whigs will finally have a chance for a come back.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/images/fillmore_m.gif

[HBox]

Harry Reid is a dick. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21844_Page3.html)

Specter informed McConnell on Tuesday morning of his final decision to leave the GOP but not before some last-minute gamesmanship by Reid. Reid called McConnell on Tuesday morning to tell his GOP counterpart that Specter had asked for a meeting, and he asked McConnell what it was about. At that time, Reid already knew that Specter was ready to change parties.

That's hilarious but immature and ultimately counterproductive.

[keithy_19]

I don't know if this has been said, it probably was, and I'm to lazy to look back to see.

I think Specter is a douche. Not because he switched parties. I mean, he did it before. Obviously neither party represents what he stands for fully. The same feeling many, if not all, Americans feel. Instead of going between the big two, why not just be a third. I know the financial backing won't be there, but fuck. Stand up for something you really believe in. You still have republican principles, as you have democratic principals. Just go somewhere inbetween.

That's just my opinion though. Have at it.

[underdog]

Wasn't there a Democrat in Vermont that became "independent", that helped Bush out? Jeffries or something?

Could it just be that all politicians are douchebags and really just want to hear their names in the news?

[keithy_19]

Wasn't there a Democrat in Vermont that became "independent", that helped Bush out? Jeffries or something?

Could it just be that all politicians are douchebags and really just want to hear their names in the news?

Yes and yes. I do think there are some good people who get elected to office, but I think they lose themselves in the process.

[A.J.]

Wasn't there a Democrat in Vermont that became "independent", that helped Bush out? Jeffries or something?

Could it just be that all politicians are douchebags and really just want to hear their names in the news?

That was a couple of years ago. Former Senator Jim Jeffords left the GOP and became an Independent but caucused with the Dems. That cost the GOP control of the Senate but Cheney (as President of the Senate) could break tie votes.

All politicians are douchebags who are concerned only with maintaining power. See the Joe Lieberman thread for a primer on this phenomenon. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60347&highlight=lieberman)

[AKA]

I don't know if this has been said, it probably was, and I'm to lazy to look back to see.

I think Specter is a douche. Not because he switched parties. I mean, he did it before. Obviously neither party represents what he stands for fully. The same feeling many, if not all, Americans feel. Instead of going between the big two, why not just be a third. I know the financial backing won't be there, but fuck. Stand up for something you really believe in. You still have republican principles, as you have democratic principals. Just go somewhere inbetween.

That's just my opinion though. Have at it.

I guess you feel the same way about Ronald Reagan, too, since he switched parties in the 50s?

What they really believe in is representing the people of their state. He won't be able to do it as a Republican, because the party abandoned him - he didn't change the party did.

He can't do it as an independent, because (a) there would be no money there from anyone and (b) unlike Lieberman's situation, there's a "sore loser" rule in Pennsylvania which would prevent Specter from running as an independent, if he lost a primary.

Despite the hyperbole of "liberal liberal liberal liberal," anyone really paying attention can see that there have been some great strides in the democratic party to make it more acceptable to "center/right" America - just look at all of the "Blue Dog" Democrats that were elected in 2006 and 2008 - I hate the phrase, but the DNC really has become the "big tent" party.

This is all very similar to the position Republicans were in with Reagan back in 80s - both with the GOP and the crossover of "Reagan Democrats," and with elected officials switching parties, like Phil Gramm of Texas. We saw it again in 1994 when Democrats Richard Shelby of Alabama and Colorado’s Ben Nighthorse Campbell switched to Republicans after they GOP took over captial hill.

Bottom line, the GOP abandond Specter long ago, but he didn't do anything about it until his career representing Penn. was threatened - I fail to see how this made him a douche.

[9mileskid]

term limits for these assholes already.why are these people in office for life.go back to pennsylvania and open a law practice or something.get off the publics tit.
4-2year terms in congress
2-4 year terms in senate
2-4year terms as president

if you finish your term in congress and don't become a senator you go home,same from senate to president

[Gvac]

This should show people just how phony their elected officials are. They care little for those that elected them, only on keeping their power.

Open your eyes, America. Our government is broken.

Term limits for ALL of these cocksuckers.

[KnoxHarrington]

This should show people just how phony their elected officials are. They care little for those that elected them, only on keeping their power.

Open your eyes, America. Our government is broken.

Term limits for ALL of these cocksuckers.

We wouldn't need term limits if the voters would do their fucking job and not vote for douchebags.

Term limits would just occasionally replace the current douchebags with new ones. I see no evidence that they would actually improve government, and voters hold the ultimate tool to do that already.

[Gvac]

We wouldn't need term limits if the voters would do their fucking job and not vote for douchebags.

Term limits would just occasionally replace the current douchebags with new ones. I see no evidence that they would actually improve government, and voters hold the ultimate tool to do that already.

When an elected official holds a position for a length of time, they gain more and more power. Look at Ted Kennedy. The people would vote him in if he was a lobotomized zombie because they know his backers in the state of Massachusetts will always get whatever they need from the Federal Government as long as they can prop up old Uncle Ted.

It's wrong and NOT the way the founding fathers envisioned our government. No one should be a lifetime politician.

Whether you're in the House or the Senate, serve your term and go home, returning to civilian life.

It would encourage a lot more honesty and integrity if these frauds didn't know they'd be set for life no matter how badly they fuck the citizens of the country.

[TheMojoPin]

We wouldn't need term limits if the voters would do their fucking job and not vote for douchebags.

Term limits would just occasionally replace the current douchebags with new ones. I see no evidence that they would actually improve government, and voters hold the ultimate tool to do that already.

Wait, you mean people might have to do more than bitch on a message board?

Getouttahere with that crap.

[TheMojoPin]

When an elected official holds a position for a length of time, they gain more and more power. Look at Ted Kennedy. The people would vote him in if he was a lobotomized zombie because they know his backers in the state of Massachusetts will always get whatever they need from the Federal Government as long as they can prop up old Uncle Ted.

It's wrong and NOT the way the founding fathers envisioned our government. No one should be a lifetime politician.

Whether you're in the House or the Senate, serve your term and go home, returning to civilian life.

It would encourage a lot more honesty and integrity if these frauds didn't know they'd be set for life no matter how badly they fuck the citizens of the country.

Personal life aside, we'd be better off if we had more government officials as pro-active and professionally capable as Kennedy. I'm not sure why you think he's the best example of politicians that need to be "cut off."

Besides, if this was not the way the Founding Fathers saw things going, why didn't they specify term limits? The answer is because they had zero problem with the idea of being in public office for life. Arguably the most powerful thing Washington did was step down after 8 years, but he was a clear exception to the rule. All those men knew was the idea of "ruling for life," and they had zero problem going by that with the developing American government.

[epo]

When an elected official holds a position for a length of time, they gain more and more power. Look at Ted Kennedy. The people would vote him in if he was a lobotomized zombie because they know his backers in the state of Massachusetts will always get whatever they need from the Federal Government as long as they can prop up old Uncle Ted.

So the voters of Massachusetts are wrong for their relationship with Kennedy? One of the good things in my opinion about having a long-term representative is that they can actually have good relationships within Washington to fulfill the needs of their constituents.

[9mileskid]

the problem is they don't take care of their constituents they take care of the special intrest groups and lobbiests that really get them reelected.if they had the peoples best interest ahead of their own i think the gov't would run alot smoother and a more common sense approach to figuring out problems could occur

[SatCam]

When an elected official holds a position for a length of time, they gain more and more power. Look at Ted Kennedy. The people would vote him in if he was a lobotomized zombie

So you're saying they'd vote for him even if he was actually Rosemary Kennedy?

[TheMojoPin]

the problem is they don't take care of their constituents they take care of the special intrest groups and lobbiests that really get them reelected.if they had the peoples best interest ahead of their own i think the gov't would run alot smoother and a more common sense approach to figuring out problems could occur

Wait, how do special interest groups and lobbyiests have more power to elect or re-elect someone than the people actually voting for them?

[TooLowBrow]

Wait, how do special interest groups and lobbyiests have more power to elect or re-elect someone than the people actually voting for them?

they have pooled amounts of money spent on swaying undecided voters

[TheMojoPin]

they have pooled amounts of money spent on swaying undecided voters

That sill doesn't actually give them more control than the voters.

[Freakshow]

I don't think Reagan is a good comparison. I'd liken it more the Ben Nighthorse Campbell who switched to the GOP after the '94 change in power (ride that wave baby!). I think there were a couple others who jumped on the bandwagon.

[A.J.]

This should show people just how phony their elected officials are. They care little for those that elected them, only on keeping their power.

Open your eyes, America. Our government is broken.

Term limits for ALL of these cocksuckers.

We wouldn't need term limits if the voters would do their fucking job and not vote for douchebags.

Term limits would just occasionally replace the current douchebags with new ones. I see no evidence that they would actually improve government, and voters hold the ultimate tool to do that already.

When an elected official holds a position for a length of time, they gain more and more power. Look at Ted Kennedy. The people would vote him in if he was a lobotomized zombie because they know his backers in the state of Massachusetts will always get whatever they need from the Federal Government as long as they can prop up old Uncle Ted.

It's wrong and NOT the way the founding fathers envisioned our government. No one should be a lifetime politician.

Whether you're in the House or the Senate, serve your term and go home, returning to civilian life.

It would encourage a lot more honesty and integrity if these frauds didn't know they'd be set for life no matter how badly they fuck the citizens of the country.

I've gotta disagree with you Brother G on this one. Term limits are the lazy man's way out. It's incumbent (pun intended) on the voter to be attentive to the action or inaction of their elected officials. If the majority of people want to keep reelecting an official whom they think is doing a good job, then they should be allowed to do so.

Also with term limits you lose experience. Like anywhere else, it takes time to grow into the job. This means learning both the legislative process (e.g. "how the Hill works"/how to effectively pass legislation) as well as becoming an authority on a variety of domestic and foreign issues. Ted Kennedy for all of his flaws is a master legislator and authority on health care and foreign policy due to his years of service. He's also a mentor to the younger members of the Senate of both sides of the aisle. If the place was full of newbies, even less would get done.

Regarding your point that this isn't the way the founding fathers envisioned our government and that no one should be a lifetime politician: you do realize that ALL of our Founding Fathers were lifetime politicians! They all started out in public service at the state/local level and worked their way up over time, again gaining that experience knowledge and credibility. As I said in another thread, we'll never see the pedigree of our first 10 Presidents. Today they would be considered "Washington insiders" and would be challenged by "outsiders" and "mavericks".

This is another example of the dumbing down of America and term limits would only add to that as voters would say "oh well, he's gone in another __ years anyway"

[TheMojoPin]

Regarding your point that this isn't the way the founding fathers envisioned our government and that no one should be a lifetime politician: you do realize that ALL of our Founding Fathers were lifetime politicians! They all started out in public service at the state/local level and worked their way up over time, again gaining that experience knowledge and credibility. As I said in another thread, we'll never see the pedigree of our first 10 Presidents. Today they would be considered "Washington insiders" and would be challenged by "outsiders" and "mavericks".

Bravo.

[Serpico1103]

Regarding your point that this isn't the way the founding fathers envisioned our government and that no one should be a lifetime politician: you do realize that ALL of our Founding Fathers were lifetime politicians! They all started out in public service at the state/local level and worked their way up over time, again gaining that experience knowledge and credibility. As I said in another thread, we'll never see the pedigree of our first 10 Presidents. Today they would be considered "Washington insiders" and would be challenged by "outsiders" and "mavericks".


Truth distracts from Gvac's purpose; to act like a rebel and rant about his sole cause- term limits.

The founding fathers were great men, but far from the idealized image hold of them.
Besides, their snobbish, racist, and sexiest beliefs, they were also traitors. Signing the constitution was a treasonous act, not against Britain, but against America.
I think there are pictures of George Washington with Bill Ayers somewhere too.

[Gvac]

Regarding your point that this isn't the way the founding fathers envisioned our government and that no one should be a lifetime politician: you do realize that ALL of our Founding Fathers were lifetime politicians! They all started out in public service at the state/local level and worked their way up over time, again gaining that experience knowledge and credibility.

I have absolutely no problem with someone "working their way up" from state senator to governor to representative or senator or President. I DO have a problem with someone being a rep or senator for 40 years though. That's what I meant by lifetime politician.

Sorry I wasn't clearer.

And I couldn't disagree more with you on this, A.J. The very fact that you point to how long it takes to learn "how the Hill works" shows just how broken and corrupt our system is.

When you say "even less would get done" if guys like Ted Kennedy weren't there, I see that as more of a positive than a negative.

[TheMojoPin]

Why is Kennedy the epitome of a bad career politician to you?

[EliSnow]

Truth distracts from Gvac's purpose; to act like a rebel and rant about his sole cause- term limits.

The founding fathers were great men, but far from the idealized image hold of them.
Besides, their snobbish, racist, and sexiest beliefs, they were also traitors. Signing the constitution was a treasonous act, not against Britain, but against America.
I think there are pictures of George Washington with Bill Ayers somewhere too.

You meant the Declaration of Independence didn't you?

[Serpico1103]

You meant the Declaration of Independence didn't you?

No, the constitution. The declaration was probably a treasonous act against Britain. The Constitution was a treasonous act against the United States of America. Traitors, each and everyone of them.

[EliSnow]

No, the constitution.

How was that treason?

[Serpico1103]

How was that treason?

A violation of the Articles of Confederation. The articles had a method for it to be modified. They ignored it, violated the Articles of Confederation, the founding document of the USA (the greatest nation on earth) and secretly created the Constitution. Hang 'em all. I saw a portrait of Jefferson bowing to a Persian Sultan.

[EliSnow]

A violation of the Articles of Confederation. The articles had a method for it to be modified. They ignored it, violated the Articles of Confederation, the founding document of the USA (the greatest nation on earth) and secretly created the Constitution. Hang 'em all. I saw a portrait of Jefferson bowing to a Persian Sultan.

If the Constitution is accepted by the rest of the populace, as it was, then it cannot be said that they committed treason against the country.

[The Jays]

Why is Kennedy the epitome of a bad career politician to you?

Because they won't let it die that he let that poor girl drown in a car while he ran away.

[Gvac]

Just admit I won.

Again.

Thank you.

[epo]

Just admit I won.

Again.

Thank you.

Won what?

[Gvac]

Exactly.

[epo]

Exactly.

Don't make me embed a Ronnie Milsap song for you.

[A.J.]

I have absolutely no problem with someone "working their way up" from state senator to governor to representative or senator or President. I DO have a problem with someone being a rep or senator for 40 years though. That's what I meant by lifetime politician.

Sorry I wasn't clearer.

And I couldn't disagree more with you on this, A.J. The very fact that you point to how long it takes to learn "how the Hill works" shows just how broken and corrupt our system is.

When you say "even less would get done" if guys like Ted Kennedy weren't there, I see that as more of a positive than a negative.

No, I knew what you meant but I just wanted to offer a different optic.

By all rights Robert Byrd should have retired long ago. He's spent over 50 years in Congress but now he's over 90, feeble, and his staff is no doubt covering for him like Strom Thurmond's did at the end. However, if the majority of the people of West Virginia still think he is an effective legislator, why shouldn't they be allowed to reelect them? Or, why doesn't someone just challenge him in a Democratic primary on the points you made? Again, it's the responsibility of the electorate every Election Day to determine, on their own, to term limit a politician. There's enough apathy now -- term limits make it worse.

Let me ask you this: do you have a problem with someone serving 40 years in the military or having a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court?

Yeah, way the committee system that evolved as the size of the Congress grew and the country grew created a clusterfuck, that's for sure. But I still think we need seasoned leaders. Maybe I've become a "Washington insider" myself from all my time here which included some Congressional liaison work but you just can't put a price on political experience. Or maybe, I just think of how this country might have turned out if we didn't have long-time public servants like Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, Joseph Cannon or Carl Vinson.

[Serpico1103]

If the Constitution is accepted by the rest of the populace, as it was, then it cannot be said that they committed treason against the country.

I was just busting balls. But, they did commit treason.
The constitution was ratified, but by the terms of the constitution. So, if a new constitution was written up, requiring only one senator from every state to ratify it, and they did, that new constitution would be "ratified." But, it would still be a violation of the old constitution and treason. You only have two choices: amend the constitution or commit treason. There is no third option.

[torker]

Sorray. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/us/politics/19elect.html):dry:

Mr. Specter, 80, lost his bid for a sixth term despite the backing of a wide swath of the Democratic political establishment – starting with President Obama

[Dude!]

Sorray. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/us/politics/19elect.html):dry:

2 jewish politicians -
Specter and Blumenthal-
humiliated on the same day...

epo will be thrilled

[Contra]

he was doomed though I can't believe it was still that close. The video of him saying he switched to get reelected was just devastating, and it ran about every commercial break here in PA.

[A.J.]

As glad as I am to see Specter get his just desserts, I'm sad to see it come at the expense of a douche like Sestak. I've heard a lot of bad things about him from my Navy colleagues.

[Willmore]

1 down, 1 to go. Blanche Lincoln is in a runoff.

[PigShitIrish]

As glad as I am to see Specter get his just desserts, I'm sad to see it come at the expense of a douche like Sestak. I've heard a lot of bad things about him from my Navy colleagues.

The other day he came into our office because he was shaking hands in the building while people were coming to work, and he needed place to do a quick radio interview. He did come off kinda sleazy.