How is the Record Industry Failing Us?

[Kublakhan61]

I know we often say the industry is failing / their business model is outdated / etc. but what I can't figure out is HOW did they fail us as consumers?

Torrents and P2P became the trend and it has begun to cripple the music industry - but they haven't begun to fail us, we're failing them .. aren't we?

I might also note that I'm not strictly talking the major labels. Yes, the majors are being crippled by piracy, but so are the smaller labels, Strut, Soundway, etc.

[TheMojoPin]

Not lowering CD prices.

Not jumping on the online bandwagon years before they did, and still halfassing it at this point.

[Kublakhan61]

Not lowering CD prices.

Not jumping on the online bandwagon years before they did, and still halfassing it at this point.

Yeah. I agree with not lowering CD prices. Really though, at this point they need to start phasing CDs out and begin pushing more vinyl.

How do you mean that they're halfassing their downloadable content?

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah. I agree with not lowering CD prices. Really though, at this point they need to start phasing CDs out and begin pushing more vinyl.

How do you mean that they're halfassing their downloadable content?

Look how many labels dragged their feet to offering online content and downloads for the better part of a decade while the "internet revolution" left them behind. Look how many labels now still don't offer huge parts of their catalogs or have really awful signup deals, prices and stipulations or nothing official at all. Look how many of them took years to figure out how potent the internet is when it comes to preading the word about an act or breaking a new one and how many still can't figure it out.

[paulisded]

Abe, buy this book immediately - Appetite for Self-Destruction by Steve Knopper. (http://www.amazon.com/Appetite-Self-Destruction-Spectacular-Industry-Digital/dp/1416552154/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237824880&sr=1-1) It's a great expose on how the music business completely fucked themselves over on so many fronts.

Overall, I think what has killed the industry has been the various mergers and executive turnover. All of the "record men" were let go in favor of businessmen who had no clue how to sell records. Instead of building careers that would sell discs for decades, they went for the quick, trendy buck...and then couldn't understand why the 2nd or 3rd album didn't sell.

Add to that similar mergers in the radio business, which has resulted in smaller national-based playlists, and MTV/VH1's move to reality shows, and anybody that's not a celebrity has no shot to get heard.

[paulisded]

Yeah. I agree with not lowering CD prices. Really though, at this point they need to start phasing CDs out and begin pushing more vinyl.

How do you mean that they're halfassing their downloadable content?

The labels had a shot to take over Napster long before the Metallica lawsuit, and their online ignorance has fucked them over ever since.

[TheMojoPin]

The record industry spent the 90's treating the internet like J. Edgar Hoover treated the Mafia.

[Kublakhan61]

Overall, I think what has killed the industry has been the various mergers and executive turnover. All of the "record men" were let go in favor of businessmen who had no clue how to sell records. Instead of building careers that would sell discs for decades, they went for the quick, trendy buck...and then couldn't understand why the 2nd or 3rd album didn't sell.



Thanks for dropping in! This is exactly what I needed to hear. I was approaching it from a market perspective, and it seemed to me that Piracy is a big problem for the labels, but not one which we can blame on them. If we're looking at it from a supply and demand stand point (and I was) Consumers were demanding music -> the labels released albums. Consumers downloaded the albums and fucked the label leaving them with unmoved merch. From here, the label's decline is our fault - BUT if you're saying the industry fucked itself by chasing the quick money - then it's their own fault.

I'll grab that book ASAP - thanks.

[booster11373]

DRM and the digital millenium copyright act

[instrument]

i went into fye and cd's were 19.99!
seriously!
who the f is gonna pay 19 bucks for a friggin cd!

[paulisded]

i went into fye and cd's were 19.99!
seriously!
who the f is gonna pay 19 bucks for a friggin cd!

Anybody who buys anything at FYE (just like Musicland in the past) deserves to be raped in price.

[instrument]

the last cd i purchased was fugazi - the argument.....
think it was 9 bucks..
i can't even remember how long ago that was...

oh no, i actually bought the first album by the evens too...

[TheMojoPin]

the last cd i purchased was fugazi - the argument.....
think it was 9 bucks..
i can't even remember how long ago that was...

oh no, i actually bought the first album by the evens too...

And that's thanks to Dischord being one of the few record labels that "gets it." They've rolled wih the punches of changing technology for almost 30 years now and have sold millions of albums while still essentially being a DIY label run out of someone's house.

[El Mudo]

Its outdated thinking and business models...perfect example was the Bob Lefsetz/Gene Simmons debate.


Sitting there listening to Gene talk about how he was gonna break some new band was cringeworthy, and would actually be kinda sad if Gene wasn't such a massive douche

[Kublakhan61]

Right so here are two points I wonder about.

DRM and the digital millenium copyright act

How has DRM and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act led you to think the industry is failing? They are trying to protect their investment - you're trying to steal it.

Its outdated thinking and business models...perfect example was the Bob Lefsetz/Gene Simmons debate.


CDs are outdated -but the entire business model? How do you figure?

[TheMojoPin]

Right so here are two points I wonder about.



How has DRM and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act led you to think the industry is failing? They are trying to protect their investment - you're trying to steal it.



CDs are outdated -but the entire business model? How do you figure?

Most of the attempts at digital copyright programs have ended up hurting the people actually buy the CD's as much as or more than the the people who would be snagging it online for free. It's led to CD's that can't play in many car CD players, computers, certain stereos or DVD players. They often don't allow people who have bought the CD to then upload it to their computer or their personal music player. That's incredibly stupid.

[booster11373]

Right so here are two points I wonder about.



How has DRM and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act led you to think the industry is failing? They are trying to protect their investment - you're trying to steal it.



CDs are outdated -but the entire business model? How do you figure?

Who said anything about stealing music, DRM was a major factor in why I choose not to use I tunes and why I frequent Amazons MP3 store, I want to play music or films that I bought legally on any compatible device that I also own the DMCA forbade this

[SP1!]

Right so here are two points I wonder about.

How has DRM and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act led you to think the industry is failing? They are trying to protect their investment - you're trying to steal it.
No, not stealing it anymore than kids who made copies of tapes back in the day, the problem is they feel that this creates too perfect a copy so they must kill it and get that revenue stream back up. Its the same thing that bugged me about metallica, they made their name by kids trading tapes but now that they have made it suddenly its bad, what douches.

CDs are outdated -but the entire business model? How do you figure?
Well the fact that its failing is the first sign its outdated, they dont develop bands anymore, they get some semi-cute kid in the studio and get them to sing over pre packaged beats, thats great for a small segment of fans but in the long run its not very profitable. There is quite a lot of music you have to dig around to hear, in the old days there were shows on radio to hear that music, now all you hear are the same 20 songs all day. I blame the record companies who keep feeding them this shit.

I still think the reason the record companies hate digital so much is because there is very little chance it will ever break, they made a shitload of money off tapes that broke or CDs that got scratched bad enough not to play.

[TheMojoPin]

I still think the reason the record companies hate digital so much is because there is very little chance it will ever break, they made a shitload of money off tapes that broke or CDs that got scratched bad enough not to play.

I think that would be very shortsighted of them. Look how often people have to replace computers, hard drives, removeable data storers and portable music players. It's still often a very finite medium that brings in a lot of repeat purchases, arguably even moreso than with CD's.

[paulisded]

One thing that I rarely see mentioned in these discussions is the presence of other forms of entertainment to compete for your discretionary income..namely video games and video/DVD's. Yes, they were both around in the 80's, but they have really become giant sources of income in the last decade. Video tapes were primarily a rental format (with the exception of a a few titles per year priced to sell through retail) until the last few years of their existence. Do you think that any production company ever believed that outside of Star Trek they could sell entire seasons of TV shows? Now even the most obscure reality show is sold at Target and Wal-Mart. The fact is that high profile DVD releases are now the Thriller/Purple Rain/Ten/etc. of the entertainment business - a good example is that supposedly in the first month of release, Batman Returns sold 12 million copies. You can't tell me that this doesn't affect CD sales.

The same with video games. Rock Band and all of the spinoffs, GTA, etc. etc. No video game in the 80's or early 90's sold anywhere near the numbers of these products. And that's not even taking into account the cost for the various systems. If you're spending fifty bucks on a game (or whatever they cost), that is that many fewer CD's (or digital files) you may consider purchasing.

[TheMojoPin]

One thing that I rarely see mentioned in these discussions is the presence of other forms of entertainment to compete for your discretionary income..namely video games and video/DVD's. Yes, they were both around in the 80's, but they have really become giant sources of income in the last decade. Video tapes were primarily a rental format (with the exception of a a few titles per year priced to sell through retail) until the last few years of their existence. Do you think that any production company ever believed that outside of Star Trek they could sell entire seasons of TV shows? Now even the most obscure reality show is sold at Target and Wal-Mart. The fact is that high profile DVD releases are now the Thriller/Purple Rain/Ten/etc. of the entertainment business - a good example is that supposedly in the first month of release, Batman Returns sold 12 million copies. You can't tell me that this doesn't affect CD sales.

The same with video games. Rock Band and all of the spinoffs, GTA, etc. etc. No video game in the 80's or early 90's sold anywhere near the numbers of these products. And that's not even taking into account the cost for the various systems. If you're spending fifty bucks on a game (or whatever they cost), that is that many fewer CD's (or digital files) you may consider purchasing.

All very true. A downturn might have been inevitable, but it's then arguable that they just made it worse by seemingly going out of their way to making their product less appealing as spending and leisure time changed.

[KnoxHarrington]

I think a really underrated reason for all this is the way that the recording industry killed the single. They got so hooked on people buying full-priced CD's that they just stopped issuing singles -- why let someone get away with buying one song for $1, when you can make them buy the whole thing for $20, often?

And people got burned so often buying a CD to get that one song, and realizing the other tracks on the CD were shit, in effect paying $20 for a single, that they looked for alternatives to get that one song. And the dumbass recording industry didn't see this, and so the alternative they found was illegal downloading.

[KnoxHarrington]

All very true. A downturn might have been inevitable, but it's then arguable that they just made it worse by seemingly going out of their way to making their product less appealing as spending and leisure time changed.

And this kind of dovetails into my point about killing the single: if it's a much more competitive market for entertainment dollars, wouldn't you rather get $1 for one song from a customer than jack shit when they download it from Limewire because they don't want to spend $20 for the CD?

[Death Metal Moe]

I think that would be very shortsighted of them. Look how often people have to replace computers, hard drives, removeable data storers and portable music players. It's still often a very finite medium that brings in a lot of repeat purchases, arguably even moreso than with CD's.

CARBONITE!

[paulisded]

You guys are all raising points that are discussed in the book I recommended earlier. If you see it, buy it immediately.

[topless_mike]

And people got burned so often buying a CD to get that one song, and realizing the other tracks on the CD were shit, in effect paying $20 for a single, that they looked for alternatives to get that one song. And the dumbass recording industry didn't see this, and so the alternative they found was illegal downloading.

that was me.
so many times i bought a cd from sam goody cause i liked 1 song. so i plunked down my $18.99 + tax and gave it a shot.
got home, and realized it was 1 good song that i just paid $20 for.
:furious:

once the interwebs came about, i would (and still do now) download the album, listen to it, and if i like it, go purchase it.

with all the tools today, record labels have become nothing more than a large marketing department and a hinderance to the music industry.

[Kublakhan61]

Well, this thread was great and totally solved my dilemma.


Don't forget Record Store Day is coming up!

Record Store Day: Live up to your Word!



Also, I buy a lot of 7" singles- but I'm guessing you guys mean top 40 singles? I'm surprised they don't still sell singles. Clearly the radio plays a lot of them...

[paulisded]

Also, I buy a lot of 7" singles- but I'm guessing you guys mean top 40 singles? I'm surprised they don't still sell singles. Clearly the radio plays a lot of them...

Once CD's took hold, the major labels made CD singles a very low priority. Rock singles were rarely released, as the labels began concentrating mainly on rap and R&B to push the CHR chart. These 1 -3 track singles were priced at up to $5, which obviously wasn't a great deal to consumers. This wasn't the case in Britain, though, which is why imported CD singles have always been so valuable. By the late 90's, even these forms of singles were eliminated, leaving radio-only promos, promotion companies and press releases as the methods the labels used to push individual tracks as singles.

There was a trend in the mid-90's, especially by Sony and their subsidiaries, to use CD singles to manipulate the Hot 100 chart. They'd ship cases and cases of CD singles to retailers for no charge, and encourage them to not only sell them for next to nothing but to also ring all of the unsold copies through their Soundscan-connected registers at a penny. Many of Mariah Carey's so-called chart-toppers hit number one thanks to this method (the Hot 100 chart at that time was still a combo of radio play and singles sales).

[frye hole]

There is no need for the Record Industry any longer. Bands can do it all on their own. Build a fanbase on sites like MySpace, book their own shows, market their own stuff. Why deal with Industry assholes? I've seen opening acts at the Mercury Lounge in NYC with their stuff available on iTunes already ....

[El Mudo]

I think the Telecommunications Act of 1996 also bears mentioning in this case, because the deregulation of the entertainment industry is a big part of what's killing it.

When you have huge conglomerates (like Infinity for example) that own all/most of the stations in one market playing nothing but the stuff they want you to hear, its no wonder people went to the internet and found other mediums in which to hear what they wanted

[paulisded]

I'm a huge fan of the Underground Garage channel, and I've always believed that despite his cartoon image Little Steven is one of the few people who understands both the artistic and business sides of the music industry. Last week, he was a speaker at SXSW, and his remarks really fit into what we've been discussing in this thread:

Steven Van Zandt, Austin Convention Center
SXSW. March 20, 2009.
*
Good morning how are we? I see all my people.

Interesting time in our business, is it not?
Now you wish you listened to your parents and went to college, huh?
We are experiencing the biggest changes in 40 years as the main
revenue-producing medium switches from the album to, we don' t know what
yet.
Keep in mind that until the Beatles and the rest of the British Invasion
landed in 1964, the vinyl single ruled what was called the business. it
wasn't exactly the business in truth, it was more like the Wild West with a
bunch of freaks, misfits, outcasts, outlaws, entrepreneurs, renegades and
hooligans running around making it all up as they went along.

Finally in 1967 the Beatles made an album called Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts
Club Band -- you can ask your grandfather to borrow his copy -- and with
that record the album became undeniably king. The difference between 79
cents for a single and $4.95 for an album created a music business.

As I'm sure you've noticed we've now come full circle back to singles and if
you're wondering what 1962 was like, well you're looking at it. And if that
wasn't enough to deal with, just to make it interesting, let's throw in a
little worldwide economic holocaust, shall we?

You thought you were having problems a year ago? Heh, those were the good
old days.

The truth is it might take a year or two but those things will literally
sort themselves out. There will be some revenue model, be it the 360 thing,
subscriptions or whatever, and frankly there have been enough boring
discussions about the mechanics of our business, already enough to last a
lifetime. And as far as the economy, well, Obama's gonna fix the economy so
don't worry about that.

It's the third topic I want to look at today. All we ever talk about is the
delivery systems for the product, the mechanics, the technology, the
infrastructure. I wanna spend just a minute on the topic that never gets
discussed in the music business, and that's the music.

The reason why nobody wants to talk about it, it's understandable because
it mostly sucks. I mean it blows, it's terrible. It's sucking major moose
cock. Who are we kidding here? Nobody's buying records. No shit, they suck.

And I know why. Nobody wants to deal with this but, we have to.
Yeah we are expriencing big changes in the business but more impotrantly,
over the last 60 years or so, we have been witnesses to a crisis of craft.

I started to notice this crisis right around the time MTV appeared, not that
it's their fault. One must assume the video was as inevitable as the
combustion engine, food preservative, the digital format and all those other
horrors of commerce disguised as progress. You could fight it, but you're
better off just adjusting and dealing with it. Save your energy because
you're gonna need it.
And MTV may come back around and save us yet. But more about them later.
Rock n roll is the working class art form. Real rock n roll, traditional
rock n roll. The music you hear every week on the Underground Garage and
every day on Sirius 25 and XM 59, is equal opportunity, regardless of race,
education or how much money you got, since the working class don't think too
much about what is art and what is not. Mostly because they're too busy
working. They spend their time on their craft, the practical useful stuff.
So let's get back to basics for a moment, what is our craft?

Rock n roll had always been a two-part craft, performance and record-making,
and that turned into a three-part craft for bands, when songwriting was
added after the Beatles changed the world.
That self-contained archetype may have been a temporary blip in the big
picture. Recent history started to suggest that the Beatles in that short
little period may turn out to be the exception, rather than the new rule.

It was, after all, our renaissance. That approximate 20-year era, from 1951
to 1971, will be studied for hundreds of years to come and still informs
everything that today is popular music.

So as to our craft -- performance, record-making, songwriting -- what
happened exactly?

The crisis in performance is, I believe, based on one simple fact. When it
started, rock n roll was dance music. One day we stopped dancing to it and
started listening to it and it's been downhill ever since.

We had a purpose, had a specific goal, an intention, a mandate, we made
people dance or we did not work, we didn't not get paid, we were fired, we
were homeless. That requires a very different energy. To compel people to
get out of their chairs and dance, it's a working-class energy, not an
artistic, intellectual, waiting-around-for-inspiration energy. It's a
get-up, go-to-work-and-kill energy.
Rip it up, or die trying.

The advent of the video was just the final nail in the performance coffin, a
coffin that had already been constructed by years of excessive immersion in
ganja, hashish and all forms of water-cooled bong therapy. You didn't have
to make people dance anymore, they were too stoned to dance.
Now you didn't even have to play your instrument anymore. All you had to do
was act like a rock star and bada-bing you were a rock star.

Well now, there's a new trend that's even more dangerous, and this affects
songwriting as well as performance. Bands are starting to skip the bar-band
phase of their development
and I'm seeing it all over the world. The club stage, where ideally you're
still a dance band.
But equally important, you get the opportunity to play other people's songs,
your favorite songs. Analyze them, understand them. All of a sudden, I'm
hearing it's not cool to play other people's songs. That's for the less
gifted, you know, the losers. That thinking has been extended now to include
anybody's songs, you know any songs that didn't come from your personal
musical genius.

This is a major problem. Performance-wise, the energy you discover,
manufacture and harness as a dance band stays with you for the rest of your
life. You never lose that. And the analysis you must do while learning to
play classic songs is how you learn how to write. The melody, this melody
with that chord change, produces this effect. It's how you learn to arrange.
The verses go here, the bridge there, it's how you learn the specific job of
each instrument.

You learn greatness from greatness. Nobody is a born great performer, nobody
is born a great songwriter. The Beatles were a club and bar band for five
years, and then continued playing covers for five albums, the Stones did
about three years and their first five albums. All of a sudden, we think
we're better than them?

Another nefarious infection regarding modern songwriting is the auteur
theory, which means the person singing has to be the person writing or else
it's irrelevant. This became dominant as rock n roll became the art form of
rock. Beginning in 1965, it was the year the Beatles, the Stones, the Byrds
and Bob Dylan influenced each other right into a new art form. Suddenly rock
was personal.

It was important, and an industry of journalists sprang up to explain it to
us. And that was, and is, great, except an inaccurate balance was created
between the post-art-form rock and the pre-art-form rock, keeping in mind
that the art-form rock was only the last quarter of the renaissance.

It was born in the folk-rock era, continued through psychedelic,
country-rock, and into hard rock and the singer-songwriter era, where an
inaccurate emphasis on the importance of the self-contained artist has led
to the ocean of mediocrity we're drowning in today.

Journalists work in words, they love words, they are words, so it's
perfectly understandable they labor under the misconception that lyrics are
the most important part of the song. They are not and let's keep in mind,
there are of course, major journalist exceptions. The two best rock n roll
books are after all Nick Tosches' "Hellfire," the Jerry Lee Lewis story, and
Dave Marsh's "Louie Louie," both about pre-art-form rock and, don't get me
wrong, great lyrics make a song better. I made five political albums and
spent months on the lyrics. Just don't think that's why people are coming to
see your band. Because that is not enough reason. Bob Dylan is the greatest
lyric writer that will ever live, but if he wasn't a great singer and wasn't
able to write, or in the early days steal, great melodies, he'd still be in
the Village at Cafe Wha.

The problem with this imbalance is that singers who don't write or write
about the correct subjects,
aren't taken seriously. And it's true, in spite of Elvis and Sinatra.

The 15 years of pre-art-form lyrics may not seem as important or meaningful
in a social and political way, but as a 13-year-old hearing the super sexy
Judy Craig and the Chiffons sing Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry's "I Have a
Boyfriend," don't tell me that wasn't important. More than anything else in
the world, I wanted to be that boyfriend. I still do. That was my "Blowing
in the Wind," my "Day in the Life," or "Sympathy for the Devil," absolutely.
If you wanna write, then learn how to do it.

As one of the great song publishers, like Lance Freed, who were always
encouraging young songwriters to co-write with older ones, said, just like
it's important to perform with a purpose, it is equally important to write
with a purpose. Whether that purpose is to express your most personal
anguish or to simply have a hit record, if you're gonna do it, do it right.

The third part of our craft is record-making and that discipline has almost
completely disappeared.
A record is four things: composition, arrangement, performance and sound.
Four different crafts, overseen by a producer, who understands, to some
degree, all four elements, plus the big picture of the industry, plus the
psychological stuff, being the artist's psychiatrist, plus the liaison with
the business people etc., etc.

Where are they? Where are the real producers, the arrangers, the point
being, once upon a time it took an army of very talented people to make
records: writers, singers, musicians producers, arrangers, engineers. Now
you have to do it all yourself? No wonder everything sucks.

Well, when the major record companies abandoned development, DIY was born,
do it yourself. And the auteur theory works well with DIY anyway, so why
not?

Well there is one reason why not. Everybody isn't a star. Everybody isn't a
songwriter, isn't a singer, isn't a performer, isn't a record producer. But
who is there to tell them these days, who's there to help, who's there to
suggest a different direction, to teach, to impose discipline?

Even the majors are starting to adjust, and I hope they succeed because
right now in this new paradigm they are useless to us as banks. There's
nowhere to spend their money anymore.
It's very encouraging and impressive that they stuck with MGMT for 18 months
for instance, before it broke. Maybe they look back and learn from Steve
Popovich, who stuck with Meat Loaf for over a year, when no one was
interested. You know a little bit of this long-term patience is nice to see.
But mostly the majors have passed the creative stuff off to the production
companies. There's nobody home artistically. You know, they can still find a
record, and occasionally break one, but they're gonna have trouble with the
second one, because nobody in the company knows how they made the first one.

There's no development, there's no long-term thinking, so, as usual, it's up
to the indies, right?
But indies, whoever it is, better establish a new work ethic, better find
some new patience, better get back to the basics, and better be qualified to
go the distance.

Standards have been set. The standards have been set by Sam Phillips,
Leonard Chess, Ahmet Ertegun, Jerry Wexler, Berry Gordy. You wanna be in the
record business, those are the standards we must live up to. We must
introduce, re-introduce, a new dedication to the craft. And worry about the
new technology and the art later.

Thank you.

[Kublakhan61]

That was beautiful stuff right there. Thanks.

Rip it up, or die trying.

[Freakshow]

A guy down the street from me runs a record label out of his house. I think he's so sucessful at this point he doesn't have a day job. He also tours a lot and that's it. I think the live music scene is as strong as ever.

[TripleSkeet]

Abe, buy this book immediately - Appetite for Self-Destruction by Steve Knopper. (http://www.amazon.com/Appetite-Self-Destruction-Spectacular-Industry-Digital/dp/1416552154/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237824880&sr=1-1) It's a great expose on how the music business completely fucked themselves over on so many fronts.

Overall, I think what has killed the industry has been the various mergers and executive turnover. All of the "record men" were let go in favor of businessmen who had no clue how to sell records. Instead of building careers that would sell discs for decades, they went for the quick, trendy buck...and then couldn't understand why the 2nd or 3rd album didn't sell.

Add to that similar mergers in the radio business, which has resulted in smaller national-based playlists, and MTV/VH1's move to reality shows, and anybody that's not a celebrity has no shot to get heard.

Yea well whenever you let corporate suits in charge of ANY business rather then keeping guys that are in it because they love and live it you are going to wind up with similar results. Doesnt matter if its music, sports, tv, film, etc.

[paulisded]

Yea well whenever you let corporate suits in charge of ANY business rather then keeping guys that are in it because they love and live it you are going to wind up with similar results. Doesnt matter if its music, sports, tv, film, etc.

Exactly, Skeet.

[keithy_19]

And that's thanks to Dischord being one of the few record labels that "gets it." They've rolled wih the punches of changing technology for almost 30 years now and have sold millions of albums while still essentially being a DIY label run out of someone's house.

Dischord is effing great.

So is Asian Man Records.

Personally, I hate buying digital music because the quality is shit compared to a cd, imo. Plus, getting the linear notes and the artwork are a big deal to me.

It seems like more and more smaller record companies are starting to release things on Vinyl. Even some of the bigger labels like Reprise are doing it.

[keithy_19]

A guy down the street from me runs a record label out of his house. I think he's so sucessful at this point he doesn't have a day job. He also tours a lot and that's it. I think the live music scene is as strong as ever.

I remember when I was 12-13 that there always used to be shows. Shitty local bands would go to the VFW and just play. It'd cost you five bucks to get in and no one left. You stayed for every band.

Now, you have people who go to local shows seeing their friends band and then they leave, not giving the other bands a chance. It sucks.

[paulisded]

A guy down the street from me runs a record label out of his house. I think he's so sucessful at this point he doesn't have a day job. He also tours a lot and that's it. I think the live music scene is as strong as ever.

These days, it becomes a question of whether you want to make a living or become a celebrity. If you're willing to play the game, you'll have your face on TV and in magazines but you won't be able to call any shots and there's a 98% chance you won't make a penny.

Thanks to the current minor costs to record, distribute, and advertise, it's much easier to make a living these days by doing it all yourself. You're unlikely to become a household name, and won't play arenas, but you can make a pretty good living by selling a few thousand discs (or online downloads) a year.

[Kublakhan61]

Now, you have people who go to local shows seeing their friends band and then they leave, not giving the other bands a chance. It sucks.

I think this is a broad generalization and is perhaps the sign of a bad scene. I play shows all the time and seems to me to be the code that all bands support the others on the bill and because their friends paid to see them, the friends stay as well.
I've seen some of the of the most out shit on stage and some boring shit - but if you're there for a show you stay for the show.


Also, running a label is my dream job - Maybe this is why I'm so concerned with the business model /ethics /and piracy.

[El Mudo]

I'm a huge fan of the Underground Garage channel, and I've always believed that despite his cartoon image Little Steven is one of the few people who understands both the artistic and business sides of the music industry. Last week, he was a speaker at SXSW, and his remarks really fit into what we've been discussing in this thread:



I can't help but imagine him giving that speech in the Silvio Dante voice

[TripleSkeet]

Doesnt matter to me anyway. Im done paying for music. When I come across something I like, Ill just download it for free and burn my own cd's. Problem solved.

[Kublakhan61]

Doesnt matter to me anyway. Im done paying for music. When I come across something I like, Ill just download it for free and burn my own cd's. Problem solved.

Well, this i what I mean when I say we are failing the industry. You cannot demand a product and not pay for it when it is produced.

Though, I'm willing to bet you aren't buying anything too far outside of the mainstream anyway, so really you're only hurting the big guys - and no one cares if they go under.

[TripleSkeet]

Well, this i what I mean when I say we are failing the industry. You cannot demand a product and not pay for it when it is produced.

Though, I'm willing to bet you aren't buying anything too far outside of the mainstream anyway, so really you're only hurting the big guys - and no one cares if they go under.

Youre right. I dont download too much indy stuff. Barely anything actually.

[Kublakhan61]

Youre right. I dont download too much indy stuff. Barely anything actually.

So keep sapping them. At this point they seem to deserve it.