New York Yankees Thread - 2009 World Champions

[JerseyRich]

Does it smell like cigar as well?

No, vagina.

Incidentally, isn't merchandise revenue sharing among MLB teams evenly distributed? That even though the Yankees sell the majority of merchandise, they only see a share of it?

Correct.

[Freitag]

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__39/ept_sports_mlb_experts-806674953-1255320299.jpg?yms7DCCDFRride7d

[Freitag]

Payroll (US$)
1. NY Yankees 208,097,414

23. Minnesota 67,634,766


Oh, that's how. Yeah, THEY MADE IT! I can NOT believe it. What a great story.

Hell, Arod alone is paid half the total of the whole Twins team. Add Jeter and Tex and you're already over the whole Twins payroll by 8 million!

Ha! Be proud!


Oh, and to answer your question on how they do it:

They have their own television network, which pretty much covers all operating costs for the player's salaries.

You know - the same thing that a lot of other teams are doing, thanks to the technology of digital cable and satellite, allowing teams to set up their own TV deals.

[brettmojo]

Payroll (US$)
1. NY Yankees 208,097,414

23. Minnesota 67,634,766


Oh, that's how. Yeah, THEY MADE IT! I can NOT believe it. What a great story.

Hell, Arod alone is paid half the total of the whole Twins team. Add Jeter and Tex and you're already over the whole Twins payroll by 8 million!

Ha! Be proud!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ogatjtlggHo/SikYczse7JI/AAAAAAAAA3c/qEE8D-mDlgc/s400/trick.jpg

[spoon]

Yeah, spare me this "small market team" BS. The owner of the Royals is a former CEO of Wal-Mart, who just dumped 250 million into fixing a stadium that didn't NEED 250 million dollars worth of fixing.

I was there before and after most of the work, once again you haven't a clue of what you write. You simply try to valitdate your INSANE way of thinking, which in this case it's actually your least area where you get backers. That stadium is in much better shape now and quite a decent park compared to the past. But what would you know of an owner actually caring about fans versus their (father/son) own egos. The spanks not only used a ton of taxpayer dollars to build a stadium in an area of the Bronx they never do shit to helped develop for decades, they also used a loophole they helped create to use the very luxury tax dollars they were to pay into the development fund (bc that's all the lux tax is, not rev sharing). But yah, how dare a man put 250 million of his own money into a stadium! That's the shit only the spank cunts like tenbats should be allowed to enjoy.

Bottom line, the yankees threatened to sue if a cap was ever put into play or started. I wonder why.

[spoon]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ogatjtlggHo/SikYczse7JI/AAAAAAAAA3c/qEE8D-mDlgc/s400/trick.jpg

That's as gay as the fact that you've never really seen a game outside of new york. Your views are about as myopic as they get, so forgive me if I view you as a "classic yankee fraud".

[spoon]

I am proud. Want to know why?

I'm proud that I have an owner who wants to win, and spends the money it takes to put the best team on the field. That means not only getting free agents, but building a farm system.

I'm proud that my team, when it came time to build a new stadium, built a virtual mecca to baseball. Yeah, it has it's shortcomings, but what park doesn't? I'd rather have Yankee Stadium than some place like cavernous CitiField, Rogers Centre (which is falling apart) or the new Twins field which is going to suck in April and the fall when it's still freezing-ass cold in Minnesota. You would have had TWO games in sub-freezing weather last night if they were playing at Target Field yesterday.

My team uses their own money. The other teams? A lot of them pocket the revenue sharing money instead of putting it into the team. The Pirates are extremely guilty of this, and considering how the Twins' owner cheaped out on getting a retractable roof for their new stadium, I wouldn't be surprised if they pocket the money too.

I mean, do you think that the Yankees are just some evil millionaires and all the owners just barely scrape by? No. I would guarantee that there are several owners out there that are richer than the Steinbrenners.

So you want to mock me because my team spends money? Sure, go ahead. If they were the Raiders and being unwise with it, then yeah, I could see your point. But the Yankees have a true commitment to excellence, and you really can't make me feel bad about that.

Oh and for all you assholes with this theory of a GREAT owner putting out the most money. Bullshit. The yanks don't put out the highest percentage of their revenue and never had. They've basically had their run of the league for years so all the bandwagon fans around the country create an amazing amount of money. Tap in the newer Yes channel since these figures and it's insane.

2006 % or Revenue spent on Payroll
79% Washington Nationals
79% Chicago White Sox
74% New York Yankees
70% Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
67% Toronto Blue Jays
66% Detroit Tigers
62% Minnesota Twins
60% Houston Astros
60% Boston Red Sox
59% Los Angeles Dodgers
59% St Louis Cardinals
57% San Francisco Giants
56% New York Mets
56% Atlanta Braves
55% Chicago Cubs
53% Oakland Athletics
53% Philadelphia Phillies
52% Milwaukee Brewers
51% Seattle Mariners
49% Baltimore Orioles
48% Cincinnati Reds
48% Texas Rangers
47% San Diego Padres
45% Kansas City Royals
44% Arizona Diamondbacks
43% Pittsburgh Pirates
40% Cleveland Indians
32% Tampa Bay Devil Rays
31% Colorado Rockies
15% Florida Marlins

[spoon]

Now factor in the actual amount of those percentages and you see how small the margins are for teams even at much lower percentages, while the yanks how cart blanche. Do you really think this system is a good one?! Do you really have such and intense lack of fair play and sportsmanship? I'm amazed just how off yank fans can be, and how amazingly retarded they are in defending them as "champions".

Not to mention the Yanks HAVE BEEN idiotic with their money for a decade and continue to bury mistakes all over. Give me a break.

[Freitag]

Oh and for all you assholes with this theory of a GREAT owner putting out the most money. Bullshit. The yanks don't put out the highest percentage of their revenue and never had. They've basically had their run of the league for years so all the bandwagon fans around the country create an amazing amount of money. Tap in the newer Yes channel since these figures and it's insane.

2006 % or Revenue spent on Payroll
79% Washington Nationals
79% Chicago White Sox
74% New York Yankees
70% Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
67% Toronto Blue Jays
66% Detroit Tigers
62% Minnesota Twins
60% Houston Astros
60% Boston Red Sox
59% Los Angeles Dodgers
59% St Louis Cardinals
57% San Francisco Giants
56% New York Mets
56% Atlanta Braves
55% Chicago Cubs
53% Oakland Athletics
53% Philadelphia Phillies
52% Milwaukee Brewers
51% Seattle Mariners
49% Baltimore Orioles
48% Cincinnati Reds
48% Texas Rangers
47% San Diego Padres
45% Kansas City Royals
44% Arizona Diamondbacks
43% Pittsburgh Pirates
40% Cleveland Indians
32% Tampa Bay Devil Rays
31% Colorado Rockies
15% Florida Marlins

When the merchandising is evenly distributed throughout the league, how does the bandwagon fans across the country fit in? If anything they are going to see the Yankees at away games, not home games, which helps the other teams, especially since teams jack the prices when the Yankees come to town.

Also, YES isn't the only RSN. SNY. MASN. NESN. SportsTime Ohio. etc. etc. Stop acting like the Yankees are the only ones with a license to print money with an RSN.

It's the Yankees fault that they have an RSN that their fans can watch, which generates money to cover the payroll?

You're dealing with circular logic.

[Freitag]

I was there before and after most of the work, once again you haven't a clue of what you write. You simply try to valitdate your INSANE way of thinking, which in this case it's actually your least area where you get backers. That stadium is in much better shape now and quite a decent park compared to the past. But what would you know of an owner actually caring about fans versus their (father/son) own egos. The spanks not only used a ton of taxpayer dollars to build a stadium in an area of the Bronx they never do shit to helped develop for decades, they also used a loophole they helped create to use the very luxury tax dollars they were to pay into the development fund (bc that's all the lux tax is, not rev sharing). But yah, how dare a man put 250 million of his own money into a stadium! That's the shit only the spank cunts like tenbats should be allowed to enjoy.

Bottom line, the yankees threatened to sue if a cap was ever put into play or started. I wonder why.

Yeah, how about this:

Build a team around Greinke first, THEN worry about having sushi and steakhouses in your ballpark.

The number one thing Royals fans are sweating right now is keeping Greinke, not how Kauffman was falling apart. if anything, Kaufman looks WORSE on TV after the renovation.

[spoon]

Cry me a River
Why dont you look at the net worth of Carl Pohlad, the owner was a multi-billionaire who wouldnt put any of his own money into the team God Forbid.

Yes, that's what makes a good businessman indeed joe, bleed money/not make a profit. You have to be retarded. Not to mention that most of those teams are sooooo far away, should they spend 50 million more to still lose and not make the playoffs? Or is it the system itself that helps this downward spiral? The implementation of a cap of any kind, bc the lux tax is NOT, would only effect one fucking team. I cap would also bring a floor, which would probably raise the avg salary.

"Some teams, notably the Boston Red Sox and the Milwaukee Brewers have called for the introduction of a salary cap, but the opposition of the powerful MLB players' union and the New York Yankees' ownership group (who have threatened legal action) makes implementation of a cap highly unlikely at this point in time. Although some saw the success of NHL owners in their 2004–05 lockout as an opportunity for MLB to reform its collective bargaining agreement, baseball owners agreed to a new five-year deal in October 2006 that did not include a salary cap.

Unlike the other three major North American sports, MLB has no team salary floor. The only minimum limits for team payrolls are based on the minimum salaries for individual players of various levels of experience that are written into MLB's collective bargaining agreement."

[Freitag]

Your views are about as myopic as they get,


that is absolutely freaking astounding coming from the likes of you.

[spoon]

When the merchandising is evenly distributed throughout the league, how does the bandwagon fans across the country fit in? If anything they are going to see the Yankees at away games, not home games, which helps the other teams, especially since teams jack the prices when the Yankees come to town.

Also, YES isn't the only RSN. SNY. MASN. NESN. SportsTime Ohio. etc. etc. Stop acting like the Yankees are the only ones with a license to print money with an RSN.

It's the Yankees fault that they have an RSN that their fans can watch, which generates money to cover the payroll?

You're dealing with circular logic.

Speak for yourself. The circular logic is that the fandom of nyy is constantly enhanced by the constant ability to land an all-star team while other teams continually lose their top players and even their identity to start all over again and again. Are the yankees just popular all over bc they happen to be lucky or is it bc the system is set up for them to continually be propped up by the league's best players. How people cheering for a team of players taken from all the other teams can take it serious or truly respect it as a win is insane. This of course ties into the ability of YES to demand what it does as well.

Oh and your understanding of the luxury tax was off in this very thread before, then is was the international free agent market, now it's your knowledge of revenue sharing. You continue to not only amaze me with your baseball stupidity, yet still somehow embody the essence of a true yankee fan to a t. Congrats.

[spoon]

that is absolutely freaking astounding coming from the likes of you.

Yes. As you speak as a homer for one team while I argue for the overall league. True words from such a grounded man.

[spoon]

Yeah, how about this:

Build a team around Greinke first, THEN worry about having sushi and steakhouses in your ballpark.

The number one thing Royals fans are sweating right now is keeping Greinke, not how Kauffman was falling apart. if anything, Kaufman looks WORSE on TV after the renovation.

Yeah, they should have seen the future and known not only was the once considered bust/basket case Greinke going to come out of it, he'd be a Cy Young candidate. Then they should have said who gives a fuck if the stadium is actually safe, bc that's some of the reason it had to have structural renovations, and realize Matt thought it looked better ON TV before the renovation. This of course is coming from a fan of the house of excess rivalled only by that shitpile in Dallas (NFL).

Sorry that I actually have been there versus your amazing prospective from the tv vantage point when you watch the yanks there a few times a year (if you even actually saw it).

[spoon]

When the merchandising is evenly distributed throughout the league, how does the bandwagon fans across the country fit in? If anything they are going to see the Yankees at away games, not home games, which helps the other teams, especially since teams jack the prices when the Yankees come to town.



Tell me, where do you get these wonderful made up points?!

And yes, that's what every team hopes for out there. Yankee driven away fans making one game a year when in town versus up to 81 overall games. Jesus fucking Christ you idiots just don't get it. "but but the yanks drive attendance on the road" :wallbash:

[spoon]

More recently, in October of 2006, MLB and the players association reached a five-year agreement on the revenue sharing policy. The agreement requires all 30 teams to pay 34% of their local revenues into a common pool, and that pool is split evenly among the 30 teams (Jacobson, 2008, p. 1).

First, the average difference between team revenues in the two time periods was examined. Between 1995 and 1999, the Washington Nationals (formerly the Montreal Expos) had the lowest local revenue, averaging only $16.332 million per season. In contrast, the New York Yankees, MLB’s wealthiest team, averaged just over $118 million during the same time period. The equation of the line of best fit for all 30 teams was , where y is the local revenue in dollars, and x is the team rank in terms of revenue. In other words, each subsequent team had $2.830 million more in local revenue than the previous team in the ranking. It is worth noting that the New York Yankees were a major outlier, and had a significant revenue advantage over every other team.

[spoon]

Right tenbats, they share it allllll! I know you're researching it now bc you want to find some bit of info in an attempt to save face. Too bad you showed your cards already with a shit argument once again.

[Kevin]

Spoon, though i agree that the Yanks have thier advantages from any team based on fan base and revenue and such.. But here is the thing. Baseball is like anyother buisness, in the fact that it takes time to build.

If you or myself start a buisness, the first maybe two to three years, we would be lucky to break even, and i wouldn't be able to cut myself a salary check til maybe the third or fourth, maybe even fifth.

My point is, its the same for MLB or any sport.

Would the Royals or twins loss money if they spent money for a few years? Absaloutly. But winning for three to four years will start to bring in the fanbase, it will start to bring in the merch. Investors and so on. And gradualy, thier buisness will grow. Redsox are a good example. In 98, they were in awful shape, but they put money into thier team and buiilt a pretty damn sizable buisness thats Redsox baseball. People in those midwest towns have great fans that would go crazy and support thier teams, if they feel that they are putting in an effort to build it.

These are all multi multi millionares to billionares that can afford to lose money for a few years. But they won't.

Again, do they Yanks have an advantage? Sure, will they always? Yes, but it won't be as big as it is now if teams bite the bullet for a few years and build a team and gain that winning feeling from thier fans.

As far as a cap goes, of course the Sox are gunna want it, anything that the Yankees don't want they do. Its like US and Russia.

[drjoek]

Yes, that's what makes a good businessman indeed joe, bleed money/not make a profit. You have to be retarded. Not to mention that most of those teams are sooooo far away, should they spend 50 million more to still lose and not make the playoffs? Or is it the system itself that helps this downward spiral? The implementation of a cap of any kind, bc the lux tax is NOT, would only effect one fucking team. I cap would also bring a floor, which would probably raise the avg salary.

"Some teams, notably the Boston Red Sox and the Milwaukee Brewers have called for the introduction of a salary cap, but the opposition of the powerful MLB players' union and the New York Yankees' ownership group (who have threatened legal action) makes implementation of a cap highly unlikely at this point in time. Although some saw the success of NHL owners in their 2004–05 lockout as an opportunity for MLB to reform its collective bargaining agreement, baseball owners agreed to a new five-year deal in October 2006 that did not include a salary cap.

Unlike the other three major North American sports, MLB has no team salary floor. The only minimum limits for team payrolls are based on the minimum salaries for individual players of various levels of experience that are written into MLB's collective bargaining agreement."

Reread the first sentence of my previous post.
Ill even repost it for you:

CRY ME A RIVER!

This is the system that exist
Dont like it?
GO follow Hockey

[spoon]

The business we'd be starting isn't one team, it's MLB.

[TheMojoPin]

The Cubs only spend 55% of their revenue?!?

RAISE THAT PAYROLL TO $200 MILLION!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Spoon, where did you get those figures?

[spoon]

Reread the first sentence of my previous post.
Ill even repost it for you:

CRY ME A RIVER!

This is the system that exist
Dont like it?
GO follow Hockey

classic yankee tripe

and you know I do and will follow hockey

the difference there is if the Rangers win a championship, they'll earn it

[spoon]

The Cubs only spend 55% of their revenue?!?

RAISE THAT PAYROLL TO $200 MILLION!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Spoon, where did you get those figures?

I found it on a couple different sites. Do a google search and you'll find it. As it turns out, there are some really interesting statistical analysis out there on this topic. Simply bc of the recent bad yankee runs, the disparity has actually come down over the last few years. Surely this is about to change once again.

[foodcourtdruide]

Reread the first sentence of my previous post.
Ill even repost it for you:

CRY ME A RIVER!

This is the system that exist
Dont like it?
GO follow Hockey

This is such a crazy reaction. There's a legitimate problem in MLB right now, why are you dismissing it? The current system completely alienates the fans of a lot of teams. I don't fault the Yankees for spending money,and think they've done a great job, but you have to admit they have the biggest non-baseball related advantage in the sport.

[TheMojoPin]

When you get a chance, shoot me the link. I'm finding a lot about revenue sharing and caps and payroll but nothing with those percentage breakdowns.

[Kevin]

This is such a crazy reaction. There's a legitimate problem in MLB right now, why are you dismissing it? The current system completely alienates the fans of a lot of teams. I don't fault the Yankees for spending money,and think they've done a great job, but you have to admit they have the biggest non-baseball related advantage in the sport.



Here's the thing.. They have not done a great job til this year. They ran the baseball side TERRIBLY for the past 5 6 years. They were just lucky enough that this past offseason, the right players were available.

[drjoek]

This is such a crazy reaction. There's a legitimate problem in MLB right now, why are you dismissing it? The current system completely alienates the fans of a lot of teams. I don't fault the Yankees for spending money,and think they've done a great job, but you have to admit they have the biggest non-baseball related advantage in the sport.


I agree theres a problem but the answer is NOT to stop the top producer from doing what they can with in the system. Fix the system.

[foodcourtdruide]

I agree theres a problem but the answer is NOT to stop the top producer from doing what they can with in the system. Fix the system.

Doesn't everyone agree with this though? I don't think anyone wants a rule that says everyone except the Yankees can spend as much money as they want.

[Freitag]

I found it on a couple different sites. Do a google search and you'll find it. As it turns out, there are some really interesting statistical analysis out there on this topic. Simply bc of the recent bad yankee runs, the disparity has actually come down over the last few years. Surely this is about to change once again.

are these the same statistical numbers that nerds manipulate and tweak to show what a lousy SS Jeter is?

Just curious.

[Freitag]

Spoon I'll sum it up thusly -

Whether you have a 60 million payroll or a 200 million payroll - it still can't buy you a run when you have bases loaded with no outs, magically make a blown save go away, or fix bad baserunning mistakes.

[Willmore]

fuck this, wrong thread.

[foodcourtdruide]

Spoon I'll sum it up thusly -

Whether you have a 60 million payroll or a 200 million payroll - it still can't buy you a run when you have bases loaded with no outs, magically make a blown save go away, or fix bad baserunning mistakes.

What's your point? It buys you better players, and let's you keep your good players. I'd much rather be a fan of the team with the 200 million dollar payroll, than the 60 million dollar payroll because I know more often than not I'd have a chance to win.

[TheMojoPin]

are these the same statistical numbers that nerds manipulate and tweak to show what a lousy SS Jeter is?

Just curious.

Uh, nothing has to be tweeked to show that defensively Jeter has typically been an average (or even at times below average) SS. This year he's definitely stepped it up and is playing the best defense of his career, but man, way to Joe Morgan it up, Matty.

[Freitag]

What's your point? It buys you better players, and let's you keep your good players. I'd much rather be a fan of the team with the 200 million dollar payroll, than the 60 million dollar payroll because I know more often than not I'd have a chance to win.

If the Yankees had a 200mill payroll and had won the WS on a consistent basis, I could see your point.

But multiple different teams have won since the Yankees last won in 2000.

And the Yankees have been defeated by teams with much smaller payrolls.

The difference this year? Stein's out of the picture and they are getting chemistry/character guys instead of those with the gaudiest stats.

The point is - the Twins had the bases loaded with none out. Are you seriously saying the Yankees payroll made them fall over themselves not to get at least one run across?

[Freitag]

Uh, nothing has to be tweeked to show that defensively Jeter has typically been an average (or even at times below average) SS. This year he's definitely stepped it up and is playing the best defense of his career, but man, way to Joe Morgan it up, Matty.

On FARK, the baseball stat nerds consistently use tweaked and convoluted stats to keep bashing Jeter to say what an awful shortstop he is. That was what I was trying to say.

I know he's had better D this year... he had a conditioning program to work on going to both sides, and working on his "first step quickness".

[JerseyRich]

If the Yankees had a 200mill payroll and had won the WS on a consistent basis, I could see your point.

But multiple different teams have won since the Yankees last won in 2000.

And the Yankees have been defeated by teams with much smaller payrolls.

The difference this year? Stein's out of the picture and they are getting chemistry/character guys instead of those with the gaudiest stats.

The point is - the Twins had the bases loaded with none out. Are you seriously saying the Yankees payroll made them fall over themselves not to get at least one run across?


I think I saw Nick Punto chasing after a giant wad of money that A-Rod dropped behind home plate. That's the only explanation I can come up with him missing the HUGE stop sign at 3rd.

[drjoek]

Doesn't everyone agree with this though? I don't think anyone wants a rule that says everyone except the Yankees can spend as much money as they want.

Son, we live in a world that has The Yankees and The Yankees need to be guarded by men with money. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Bud Selig? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for The Twins and curse the Yankees; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that The Twins Loss, while tragic, probably saved baseball and that The Yankees existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves baseball. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want The Yankees in baseball, you need The Yankees in baseball. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom The Yankees provide and then questions the manner in which The Yankees provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a bat and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[foodcourtdruide]

If the Yankees had a 200mill payroll and had won the WS on a consistent basis, I could see your point.

But multiple different teams have won since the Yankees last won in 2000.

And the Yankees have been defeated by teams with much smaller payrolls.

The difference this year? Stein's out of the picture and they are getting chemistry/character guys instead of those with the gaudiest stats.

The point is - the Twins had the bases loaded with none out. Are you seriously saying the Yankees payroll made them fall over themselves not to get at least one run across?

The biggest difference between the Yankees this year and last year are the 3 gigantic free agent signings they made during the offseason.

I think we are arguing two different things. Your argument seems to be that the Yankees having a $200m payroll doesn't mean they will automatically win the World Series every year, mine is that it gives them a non-baseball related advantage over other teams. Other teams also have this advantage, however the Yankees have it the most.

You seem to want to make this absolute 100% direct connection between payroll and each at-bat. No one is arguing this with you. The argument is that the Yankees have an advantage in team building that no other team does.

I say this as a Mets fan who believes we have this advantage, only to a lesser extent. The system benefits me, and I'd like it changed.

[Freitag]

I think I saw Nick Punto chasing after a giant wad of money that A-Rod dropped behind home plate. That's the only explanation I can come up with him missing the HUGE stop sign at 3rd.

Not only that, apparently Nathan walked into his room and found Minka Kelly, Michelle Damon, and Allie Teixera with strawberries and champagne waiting for him before Game 2.

[TheGameHHH]

Not only that, apparently Nathan walked into his room and found Minka Kelly, Michelle Damon, and Allie Teixera with strawberries and champagne waiting for him before Game 2.

where the fuck was Kate Hudson? is she not pulling her weight with this shit?

[Freitag]

I think I saw Nick Punto chasing after a giant wad of money that A-Rod dropped behind home plate. That's the only explanation I can come up with him missing the HUGE stop sign at 3rd.

BTW, this made me cackle madly. Good job.

[Freitag]

where the fuck was Kate Hudson? is she not pulling her weight with this shit?

You're forgetting, Kate and Minka hate each other. Kate's far too busy taking care of A-rod, so she's excused. You gonna argue with results?

[Freitag]

Who wins in a fight, Kate Hudson or Minka?

Kate is only a year older, and her father is Snake Plissken. Go.

[A.J.]

Who wins in a fight, Kate Hudson or Minka?

Kate is only a year older, and her father is Snake Plissken. Go.

STEP-father.

[TheGameHHH]

Who wins in a fight, Kate Hudson or Minka?

Kate is only a year older, and her father is Snake Plissken. Go.

I personally don't believe in winners. I just want everything to be equal and fair, all the time. Nobody should ever have an advantage when competing in anything.....ever. Hopefully, MLB wakes up soon and changes it system according to my beliefs. That way we can have 30+ different teams being champions in 30+ consecutive years. Then we'd all be happy, cause thats fair.

[A.J.]

I personally don't believe in winners. I just want everything to be equal and fair, all the time. Nobody should ever have an advantage when competing in anything.....ever. Hopefully, MLB wakes up soon and changes it system according to my beliefs. That way we can have 30+ different teams being champions in 30+ consecutive years. Then we'd all be happy, cause thats fair.

Just like with our Federal and State tax policies.

[Freitag]

STEP-father.

Snake raised her since she was 18 months old and she has no contact with the biological dad. She considers Snake to be her dad.

[Kevin]

STEP-father.



Not Biological...

And prob Minka if you're talking about power wise. She has the support of the Yankee wives, thats HUGE.

Kate does not seem to be well liked..

As far as the all important bangabilty stat, they are both really talented in that dept, but ill go with Kate.

[Freitag]

I personally don't believe in winners. I just want everything to be equal and fair, all the time. Nobody should ever have an advantage when competing in anything.....ever. Hopefully, MLB wakes up soon and changes it system according to my beliefs. That way we can have 30+ different teams being champions in 30+ consecutive years. Then we'd all be happy, cause thats fair.

Even with this system, the Cubs STILL won't win.

[Freitag]

Not Biological...

And prob Minka if you're talking about power wise. She has the support of the Yankee wives, thats HUGE.

Kate does not seem to be well liked..

As far as the all important bangabilty stat, they are both really talented in that dept, but ill go with Kate.

Kate's a gunslinger, she's just having fun out there.

You gotta give Minka credit though... she's got a lot of intangibles.

And "Yankee wives"? Please. half of them are ex-pole dancers.

[Doctor Z]

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs266.snc1/9326_720748756606_5501136_41472521_7225292_n.jpg

[brettmojo]

Son, we live in a world that has The Yankees and The Yankees need to be guarded by men with money. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Bud Selig? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for The Twins and curse the Yankees; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that The Twins Loss, while tragic, probably saved baseball and that The Yankees existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves baseball. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want The Yankees in baseball, you need The Yankees in baseball. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom The Yankees provide and then questions the manner in which The Yankees provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a bat and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee103/brettmojo/FBA/mvp.gif

[brettmojo]

Not to mention the Yanks HAVE BEEN idiotic with their money for a decadel...
No more idiotic than teams like Toronto was with Rios, Ryan or Wells. Every team makes bad signings. But when the YANKEES DO IT OH NOO!!!!! EVIL EMPIRE!!! Talk about narrow vision...

That's as gay as the fact that you've never really seen a game outside of new york.
Why do I have to see games outside of NY to understand that one extreme of an argument is no better than another? I'm sure it'd make baseball a fantastically more fan friendly sport if the Yankees had to cut Derek Jeter 10 years ago because signing him would have put them over their salary cap.

A salary cap isn't the great equalizer people like you make it out to be. You'd still have teams, just like they do in the NFL, that will not be competitive year after year. Caps don't cure the problem of mismanaged franchises. Just as having no cap doesn't either.

[TripleSkeet]

A salary cap isn't the great equalizer people like you make it out to be. You'd still have teams, just like they do in the NFL, that will not be competitive year after year. Caps don't cure the problem of mismanaged franchises. Just as having no cap doesn't either.

It actually is. And most teams arent bad year after year in the NFL. Just the less skilled ones. Ten years ago St Louis was unstoppable. Now they are a doormat. Thats how a pro sports league is supposed to look. Every team has an equal oppurtunity to win and its their skill at handling the money their given, not the amount, that determines who the better team is. As a Yankee fan its something youre sense of entitlement will never let you understand.

[TripleSkeet]

If the Yankees had a 200mill payroll and had won the WS on a consistent basis, I could see your point.


Are you serious? Really? Nothing guarantees you a World Series every year, but the money is what gives you the best chance. Looking for a number to back that up? Count those 26 flags around the stadium. Thats proof enough.

The money doesnt win it for you, it gives you the best chance to do so. Whats that? Your first baseman cant hit water if he falls off a boat? Well the best hitting 1B is a free agent this year, just tell his agent to find the highest offer out there and top it.

Theres a reason the Yankees have won a World Series in every decade for like the last 80 years. And its not because they magically unearth the best hidden talent in baseball.

[K.C.]

A salary cap isn't the great equalizer people like you make it out to be. You'd still have teams, just like they do in the NFL, that will not be competitive year after year. Caps don't cure the problem of mismanaged franchises. Just as having no cap doesn't either.

A salary cap in MLB would ruin the sport. Keeping core players together year after year is one of the great things about baseball. A salary cap would destroy that.

Revenue sharing works, but you'll never know that until teams like the Pirates, Marlins, A's, Rays, and so forth stop pocketing the extra cash they get as profit, and spend it on some talent (or to lock up current talent).

Enforcing a minimum payroll would be a better idea for MLB. Make every team spend at least $50 million annually, or something.

[underdog]

Are you serious? Really? Nothing guarantees you a World Series every year, but the money is what gives you the best chance. Looking for a number to back that up? Count those 26 flags around the stadium. Thats proof enough.

Yeah, but they haven't won a single one since 2000.

[TripleSkeet]

Yeah, but they haven't won a single one since 2000.

You know there arent many teams that think going 8 years without a title is a long time, right?

A salary cap in MLB would ruin the sport. Keeping core players together year after year is one of the great things about baseball. A salary cap would destroy that.

Revenue sharing works, but you'll never know that until teams like the Pirates, Marlins, A's, Rays, and so forth stop pocketing the extra cash they get as profit, and spend it on some talent (or to lock up current talent).

Enforcing a minimum payroll would be a better idea for MLB. Make every team spend at least $50 million annually, or something.

I disagree. It hasnt ruined football. At least not in my opinion, and not in the opinion of the millions of people that make it the most watched sport in the U.S.

And what fucking teams are keeping their core players together? The Phillies? Right now they are an exception. How many Yankees do you consider core players? Jeter, Posada, Cano.....who else? Petite is now but he left for awhile too. Sabathia? Mercenary. Burnett? Mercenary. ARod? Mercenary. Teiixera? Mercenary.

But I definitely agree with you about a payroll minimum. I think a minimum included with the cap would be a good idea. Also I think there should be some kind of big money incentive for making the playoffs. This would weed out the disgrace ownership groups out there like Pittsburgh that just want to make money and dont give a fuck about winning.

[TheGameHHH]

Are you serious? Really? Nothing guarantees you a World Series every year, but the money is what gives you the best chance. Looking for a number to back that up? Count those 26 flags around the stadium. Thats proof enough.

The money doesnt win it for you, it gives you the best chance to do so. Whats that? Your first baseman cant hit water if he falls off a boat? Well the best hitting 1B is a free agent this year, just tell his agent to find the highest offer out there and top it.

Theres a reason the Yankees have won a World Series in every decade for like the last 80 years. And its not because they magically unearth the best hidden talent in baseball.

real quick, just give me the year of the 1980's when they won a world title...im drawing a blank.

[TheGameHHH]

Are you serious? Really? Nothing guarantees you a World Series every year, but the money is what gives you the best chance. Looking for a number to back that up? Count those 26 flags around the stadium. Thats proof enough.

The money doesnt win it for you, it gives you the best chance to do so. Whats that? Your first baseman cant hit water if he falls off a boat? Well the best hitting 1B is a free agent this year, just tell his agent to find the highest offer out there and top it.

Theres a reason the Yankees have won a World Series in every decade for like the last 80 years. And its not because they magically unearth the best hidden talent in baseball.

no its not, and youre a re-tard. really, money is what makes it? lets say next season i decide to spend 136 million on jason giambi, wilson betemit, angel berora, and kris benson. then i chose to spend ANOTHER 135 million on Sal Fasano, Jamey Carroll, Craig Counsell, and Aaron Boone. now, I've spend over 270 million dollars in free agency and guess what? I dont have the best chance to win. Its not money you ass, its MANAGEMENT of money.

[underdog]

You know there arent many teams that think going 8 years without a title is a long time, right?

Yeah, but its fun to rub it in the face of Yankees fans.

[TripleSkeet]

no its not, and youre a re-tard. really, money is what makes it? lets say next season i decide to spend 136 million on jason giambi, wilson betemit, angel berora, and kris benson. then i chose to spend ANOTHER 135 million on Sal Fasano, Jamey Carroll, Craig Counsell, and Aaron Boone. now, I've spend over 270 million dollars in free agency and guess what? I dont have the best chance to win. Its not money you ass, its MANAGEMENT of money.

Come on dude. Really? Thats your argument? Yea wasting money on big money contracts wont help your team. But thats not how the money is spent. What are you trying to say that the Yankees GM is some kind of genius for signing Sabathia? Really? And Texiera? These guys were established superstars that maybe 5 teams in the league could afford to pay what they wanted. And the Yankees simply outbid them. It wasnt some kind of shrewd managerial move, it was simply outbidding.

Im not saying thats all they do, but its a large advantage they have over most teams in the league and its an unbalanced system that favors the Yankees. MLB dont care because they love seeing them in the playoffs to drive the ratings up. But people that like a fair and balanced playing field basically just call it out for the bullshit it is.

real quick, just give me the year of the 1980's when they won a world title...im drawing a blank.

My bad. I forgot they lost in 81.

[Freitag]

And Texiera? These guys were established superstars that maybe 5 teams in the league could afford to pay what they wanted. And the Yankees simply outbid them. It wasnt some kind of shrewd managerial move, it was simply outbidding.



Couple of things.

1) Yankees were in the mix for Johan but got out because they targeted Sabbathia. They could have gotten Johan if they wanted, but the price for the trade was too high. Cashman wanted to hold on to his prospects. So he convinced the Steinbrenners that it would be better to ride out 2008 and then get Sabbathia in 2009.

That's a shrewd managerial move.

2) Tex was nearly signed and delivered with the Red Sox, when the Yankees matched the offer. It came down to Tex's wife not wanting to live in the Boston area.

[sailor]

It ended up being shrewd to not trade Hughes, et al. for Santana. (edit: beat to that point)

And I think some of my fellow Yankee fans are understating the advantage our team has, due to money. I think the other side is overstating that they've always had this advantage.

[TripleSkeet]

It ended up being shrewd to not trade Hughes, et al. for Santana. (edit: beat to that point)

And I think some of my fellow Yankee fans are understating the advantage our team has, due to money. I think the other side is overstating that they've always had this advantage.

Im not saying they buy championships. The team that dominated the 90's were mostly homegrown talent.

I just hate when people act like every team has the same resources and advantages when it comes to signing free agents. Because its simply untrue. Thats why most Yankee fans are scared shitless of a salary cap. Most Boston fans are too. What reason could you possibly have against it if you feel everything is fair and level? Why would fans care if they capped the amount of money athletes can make?

[TjM]

Im not saying they buy championships. The team that dominated the 90's were mostly homegrown talent.

I just hate when people act like every team has the same resources and advantages when it comes to signing free agents. Because its simply untrue. Thats why most Yankee fans are scared shitless of a salary cap. Most Boston fans are too. What reason could you possibly have against it if you feel everything is fair and level? Why would fans care if they capped the amount of money athletes can make?

Agreed. NYY and BOS have the ability to absorb big ticket mistakes allot easier than others (Johnson, Gagne, etc) It also gives you the luxury of adding a Phil Hughs or a CLay Bucholz to the back end of your rotation as oppose to counting on them to carry it

[TjM]

Couple of things.

1) Yankees were in the mix for Johan but got out because they targeted Sabbathia. They could have gotten Johan if they wanted, but the price for the trade was too high. Cashman wanted to hold on to his prospects. So he convinced the Steinbrenners that it would be better to ride out 2008 and then get Sabbathia in 2009.

That's a shrewd managerial move.

2) Tex was nearly signed and delivered with the Red Sox, when the Yankees matched the offer. It came down to Tex's wife not wanting to live in the Boston area.

GOD DAMN RICH (Voss)!:furious:

[drjoek]

It ended up being shrewd to not trade Hughes, et al. for Santana. (edit: beat to that point)

And I think some of my fellow Yankee fans are understating the advantage our team has, due to money. I think the other side is overstating that they've always had this advantage.



Do you mean to imply that the fact that the Yankees make billions of dollars a year by being the premier team in the largest market with a proactive owner who only wanted to win at any cost is actually an advantage?
Wow I never thought of that.
I get so sick of hearing of this big market small market debate. What are the Yankees suppose to do with all the money they make? NOT try to use this advantage to try to win? Should NY NOT try to get the best players?
Look at the Tigers. They were a perennial down team for years. Losing money as well as games for years to a half empty stadium. Then using some smart drafting and patience as well as some of the revenue sharing and luxury tax money. And what did they do they spent money. Low and behold they turned things around. And guess what they continued to spend some money. Some of out of the pockets of the Pizza guy. And they have continued to have success. The biggest by product of this is they have a FULL stadium. People will show up if there's a winning product on the field.
TRY to win even if you don't have the same advantages the Yankees have and a team will make some money.
Why do the Minnesota Twins continually get catergorized a "small market team"? Their owner is one of the richest men in the world the Twin cities is a wealthy vibrant upscale large market. They are a very well run organization that CHOSES to not spend money to get to the next level

[foodcourtdruide]

Agreed. NYY and BOS have the ability to absorb big ticket mistakes allot easier than others (Johnson, Gagne, etc) It also gives you the luxury of adding a Phil Hughs or a CLay Bucholz to the back end of your rotation as oppose to counting on them to carry it

I don't understand how this is up for debate.

[TheGameHHH]

Im not saying they buy championships. The team that dominated the 90's were mostly homegrown talent.

I just hate when people act like every team has the same resources and advantages when it comes to signing free agents. Because its simply untrue. Thats why most Yankee fans are scared shitless of a salary cap. Most Boston fans are too. What reason could you possibly have against it if you feel everything is fair and level? Why would fans care if they capped the amount of money athletes can make?

I seriously dont care one way or the other if there is a cap in baseball, its not gonna change how i root. im just tired of listening to children whine about how things aren't "fair and equal". its almost like arguing for sports socialism and its fuckin stupid. why dont we just cut out the playoffs and at the end of the year we'll give every player on every team a 'youre the best, #1' throphy and call it a season? that was its all fair and equal. nobody loses, nobody wins.

home field ADVANTAGE isnt fair and equal, why do we have it?

[TheMojoPin]

It wouldn't be fair and equal even with a cap or a minimum spending requirement since you'll still have owners that opt to spend as cheaply as possible. Let's say the minimum is $50 million and the cap is $120 million: are people going to still be crying when some teams are spending $50-$60 million and a select few are spending $100-$120 million?

What do you pro-cap people think the cap should be?

[TripleSkeet]

It wouldn't be fair and equal even with a cap or a minimum spending requirement since you'll still have owners that opt to spend as cheaply as possible. Let's say the minimum is $50 million and the cap is $120 million: are people going to still be crying when some teams are spending $50-$60 million and a select few are spending $100-$120 million?

What do you pro-cap people think the cap should be?

I honestly dont know what the cap should be, but the minimum shouldnt be that far apart from it. Id say $30-$35 million should seperate the cap from the minimum. That would definitely weed out owners that shouldnt own teams and maybe fold up some teams that cities have no right having.

drjoe, Im not faulting the Yankees for using the system. The system is in place and they are doing what they have to to win. Thats fine with me. My problem is with the system, not the Yankees. I dont give a fuck how much money they make, they should only be allowed to spend as much as every other team.

You people cannot say it doesnt work because the NFL does it and its the most popular and rich sports league in the world. It can work. But I dont blame Boston and NY fans for not wanting it. Because right now the advantage is all yours.

A few years back they instituted the cap in hockey too, and even though I was a Flyers fan, a team that had plenty of cash and an owner not afraid to spend whatever he could to get players, I still felt it was the right move and the fair move.

[Aggie]

That picture really made me laugh so I made this. If anyone wants to use it feel free. I can add a username if you want or use as is...

http://www.ronfez.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=124&pictureid=1978

[TheMojoPin]

I honestly dont know what the cap should be, but the minimum shouldnt be that far apart from it. Id say $30-$35 million should seperate the cap from the minimum.

That's awful, mainly because there's little chance of the minimum being higher than $50 million. It's more likely that a minimum would be around $30 million. A cap of $65 million? ECH.

[JimBeam]

The team that dominated the 90's were mostly homegrown talent.

That statement above is simply untrue and I hate whenever it's referenced.

From 1996 - David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Jimmy Key, Kenny Rogers, David Weathers, John Wetteland, Wally Whitehurst, Wade Boggs, Mariano Duncan, Charlie Hayes, Tino Martinez, Mike Aldrete, Dion James, Paul O'Neill, Tim Raines, Daryl Starwberry, Cecil Fielder and Ruben Sierra.

From 1998 - David Cone, David Wells, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Chad Curtis, Paul O'Neill, Chili Davis, Tim Raines and Daryl Starwberry.

From 1999 - Roger Clemens, David Cone, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Chad Curtis, Paul O'Neill, Chili Davis and Daryl Starwberry.

From 2000 - Roger Clemens, David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Denny Neagle, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Jose Vizcaino, Lance Johnson, Felix Jose, David Justice, Luis Polonia, Paul O'Neill, Jose Canseco and Glenallen Hill.

Sure maybe 50% of the constant core ( Pettitte, Rivera, Jeter, Posada, and Williams ) was home grown but by no means was " most ".

With that said a salary cap isn't the answer.

[foodcourtdruide]

That statement above is simply untrue and I hate whenever it's referenced.

From 1996 - David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Jimmy Key, Kenny Rogers, David Weathers, John Wetteland, Wally Whitehurst, Wade Boggs, Mariano Duncan, Charlie Hayes, Tino Martinez, Mike Aldrete, Dion James, Paul O'Neill, Tim Raines, Daryl Starwberry, Cecil Fielder and Ruben Sierra.

From 1998 - David Cone, David Wells, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Chad Curtis, Paul O'Neill, Chili Davis, Tim Raines and Daryl Starwberry.

From 1999 - Roger Clemens, David Cone, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Chad Curtis, Paul O'Neill, Chili Davis and Daryl Starwberry.

From 2000 - Roger Clemens, David Cone, Dwight Gooden, Denny Neagle, Scott Brosius, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, Jose Vizcaino, Lance Johnson, Felix Jose, David Justice, Luis Polonia, Paul O'Neill, Jose Canseco and Glenallen Hill.

Sure maybe 50% of the constant core ( Pettitte, Rivera, Jeter, Posada, and Williams ) was home grown but by no means was " most ".

With that said a salary cap isn't the answer.

I don't know why Yankees fans in this thread can't just say:

"We benefit from an unfair system, but I am not apologizing becuase my team is operating legally within the rules."

Why does the conversation have to turn into: "YOU CAN'T BUY A DOUBLE!"

[GregoryJoseph]

Wait 'til you guys see what my Angels do to them!

[foodcourtdruide]

Wait 'til you guys see what my Angels do to them!

You're a Bronco's and Angels fan?

[GregoryJoseph]

You're a Bronco's and Angels fan?

YUP!





























This week, anyway...

[TjM]

YUP!





























This week, anyway...

I don;t like this Gvac character

[spoon]

no its not, and youre a re-tard. really, money is what makes it? lets say next season i decide to spend 136 million on jason giambi, wilson betemit, angel berora, and kris benson. then i chose to spend ANOTHER 135 million on Sal Fasano, Jamey Carroll, Craig Counsell, and Aaron Boone. now, I've spend over 270 million dollars in free agency and guess what? I dont have the best chance to win. Its not money you ass, its MANAGEMENT of money.

Congrats H, that may be the DUMBEST point you've ever made on this board. Being that you are you and this thread is where you are at your finest, this is quite a accomplishment.

Wow, how fucking jaded/stupid can one be.

[spoon]

No more idiotic than teams like Toronto was with Rios, Ryan or Wells. Every team makes bad signings. But when the YANKEES DO IT OH NOO!!!!! EVIL EMPIRE!!! Talk about narrow vision...


Why do I have to see games outside of NY to understand that one extreme of an argument is no better than another? I'm sure it'd make baseball a fantastically more fan friendly sport if the Yankees had to cut Derek Jeter 10 years ago because signing him would have put them over their salary cap.

A salary cap isn't the great equalizer people like you make it out to be. You'd still have teams, just like they do in the NFL, that will not be competitive year after year. Caps don't cure the problem of mismanaged franchises. Just as having no cap doesn't either.


Really, Wells is still an amazing cf and his stats aren't insanely bad, Rios got some good money and fell off this year and we unloaded him while Ryan destroyed his arm with a huge injury and then came back too soon. Ryan also gave the Jays too really good years as well, one at the top of the position throughout MLB. Here's the kicker, 2 of 3 were the first decent names the Jays KEPT from their own system as opposed to just losing them like so many others (Delgado, Carpenter, Lilly, AJ, .....) So yes, nice point. Especially since Toronto counldn't/didn't just bury the mistake by going out and adding another top player at all positions as the yanks do over and over again. Instead everyone in the bullpen got moved around, Wells is still in center and Rios luckily was dumped on Chicago (and he'll be solid again soon anyway).

On the cap, Skeet pretty much made a ton of good points I would have as well. Well done. Funny how even Met, Phil and Red Sox fans think a change is needed, yet the yanks don't.

[TheMojoPin]

spoon, what do you think the cap should be?

[sailor]

That's awful, mainly because there's little chance of the minimum being higher than $50 million. It's more likely that a minimum would be around $30 million. A cap of $65 million? ECH.

royals and reds are at $70 (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries), no reason for it to be less than that.

just did quick approximation and average payroll is $88.3 (cutting out top and bottom 3 it's 85.3). setting the minimum at $70 and the max at $105-110 could work. if some teams have to die/move for that, so be it. and how do the mets and cubs avoid getting lumped in with the big spenders when people talk about it here? fuck if the dying town of detroit can spend $115, does anyone else really need a cap?

i think the max can be played with and probably end up a lot higher, but i stick with $70 as a hard floor.

[TripleSkeet]

royals and reds are at $70 (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries), no reason for it to be less than that.

just did quick approximation and average payroll is $88.3 (cutting out top and bottom 3 it's 85.3). setting the minimum at $70 and the max at $105-110 could work. if some teams have to die/move for that, so be it. and how do the mets and cubs avoid getting lumped in with the big spenders when people talk about it here? fuck if the dying town of detroit can spend $115, does anyone else really need a cap?

i think the max can be played with and probably end up a lot higher, but i stick with $70 as a hard floor.

I agree with this completely.

Theres no reason a Major League Baseball team cant spend at least $70 million a year. And $105 million sounds like a fine cap. If that means that some of these teams like Florida and Pitt have to go, then so be it. Maybe then the owners will be making enough money to lower ticket prices enough so that a family of 4 can actually afford a Sunday season ticket plan.

And Beam, I guess I didnt realize how many other players were on those 90's Yankees teams, but I dont consider it quite the same thing as today.

Charlie Hayes and Mariano Duncan were average utility players that they picked up. Doc Gooden, Tim Raines and Ruben Sierra were over the hill vets that they signed to see if they could squeeze another good year out of them. They were more like the same kind of signings most teams do in the offseason then going out and buying the best players.

[TripleSkeet]

Wait 'til you guys see what my Angels do to them!

For the first time in a long time Im rooting for the Yankees in 7. Just because as a Phillies fan thats the series I want to see the most. Yankees vs. Phillies.

Game 4 would be in Philly right after an Eagles - Giants game...also in Philly. Man what a sports day that would be.

[TheMojoPin]

I agree with this completely.

Theres no reason a Major League Baseball team cant spend at least $70 million a year. And $105 million sounds like a fine cap. If that means that some of these teams like Florida and Pitt have to go, then so be it. Maybe then the owners will be making enough money to lower ticket prices enough so that a family of 4 can actually afford a Sunday season ticket plan.

And Beam, I guess I didnt realize how many other players were on those 90's Yankees teams, but I dont consider it quite the same thing as today.

Charlie Hayes and Mariano Duncan were average utility players that they picked up. Doc Gooden, Tim Raines and Ruben Sierra were over the hill vets that they signed to see if they could squeeze another good year out of them. They were more like the same kind of signings most teams do in the offseason then going out and buying the best players.

The point is that since the Yanks started going truly spend-crazy they haven't had the success they had in the past. Everyone talks like their money keeps them rolling in WS, but it isn't.

[TheMojoPin]

royals and reds are at $70 (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries), no reason for it to be less than that.

just did quick approximation and average payroll is $88.3 (cutting out top and bottom 3 it's 85.3). setting the minimum at $70 and the max at $105-110 could work. if some teams have to die/move for that, so be it. and how do the mets and cubs avoid getting lumped in with the big spenders when people talk about it here? fuck if the dying town of detroit can spend $115, does anyone else really need a cap?

i think the max can be played with and probably end up a lot higher, but i stick with $70 as a hard floor.

Why do you think they'd be able to establish a minimum simply by playing the average? That doesn't seem realistic at all. Seems like there'd be too much opposition from the owners and the union for MLB to pull that off.

[Marc with a c]

wally whitehurst has a world series ring?

[Kevin]

wally whitehurst has a world series ring?

Yes sir!

He actualy won a game down the stretch.

[epo]

I don't care what cap number is put into place, I just want a fair free agent compensation model and international players to go into the draft.

[sailor]

Why do you think they'd be able to establish a minimum simply by playing the average? That doesn't seem realistic at all. Seems like there'd be too much opposition from the owners and the union for MLB to pull that off.

playing the average? i am honestly confused. you just asked for ideas and i gave mine. don't like them? i just pulled them out of my ass, so i don't care. what are your numbers, mr big-market cubs fan?

[TripleSkeet]

Why do you think they'd be able to establish a minimum simply by playing the average? That doesn't seem realistic at all. Seems like there'd be too much opposition from the owners and the union for MLB to pull that off.

You think so??? I think the only owners that wouldnt like are the true cheapskates that take whatever money they can make and trade away every good player they create once they have to pay them. And maybe a larger market team that likes being able to outbid the smaller markets. But for the most part I would think a cap like that would help teams make higher profits and be more competitive. If they actually passed some of the profits onto the fans in a form of lower ticket prices, it would also boost the clubs popularity.

[spoon]

Im not saying they buy championships. The team that dominated the 90's were mostly homegrown talent.

I just hate when people act like every team has the same resources and advantages when it comes to signing free agents. Because its simply untrue. Thats why most Yankee fans are scared shitless of a salary cap. Most Boston fans are too. What reason could you possibly have against it if you feel everything is fair and level? Why would fans care if they capped the amount of money athletes can make?

homegrown minus the vast majority of it's pitching, including Rivera (int free agent)

[spoon]

Couple of things.

1) Yankees were in the mix for Johan but got out because they targeted Sabbathia. They could have gotten Johan if they wanted, but the price for the trade was too high. Cashman wanted to hold on to his prospects. So he convinced the Steinbrenners that it would be better to ride out 2008 and then get Sabbathia in 2009.

That's a shrewd managerial move.

2) Tex was nearly signed and delivered with the Red Sox, when the Yankees matched the offer. It came down to Tex's wife not wanting to live in the Boston area.

1) yah, so shrewd bc if they made the move the yanks probably wouldn't have missed the playoffs last year and would have an AMAZING 4 man rotation this year.

2) Tex made an excuse to go to ny. And if it is true, fuck that whore and her husband with no fucking backbone.

[spoon]

Do you mean to imply that the fact that the Yankees make billions of dollars a year by being the premier team in the largest market with a proactive owner who only wanted to win at any cost is actually an advantage?
Wow I never thought of that.
I get so sick of hearing of this big market small market debate. What are the Yankees suppose to do with all the money they make? NOT try to use this advantage to try to win? Should NY NOT try to get the best players?
Look at the Tigers. They were a perennial down team for years. Losing money as well as games for years to a half empty stadium. Then using some smart drafting and patience as well as some of the revenue sharing and luxury tax money. And what did they do they spent money. Low and behold they turned things around. And guess what they continued to spend some money. Some of out of the pockets of the Pizza guy. And they have continued to have success. The biggest by product of this is they have a FULL stadium. People will show up if there's a winning product on the field.
TRY to win even if you don't have the same advantages the Yankees have and a team will make some money.
Why do the Minnesota Twins continually get catergorized a "small market team"? Their owner is one of the richest men in the world the Twin cities is a wealthy vibrant upscale large market. They are a very well run organization that CHOSES to not spend money to get to the next level

So wait, you really think the Twins should go into the red as a business in an attempt to keep up with ny!? I'm lost, bc that simply makes 0 sense. They're good, like the tigers, bc of the division they play in is much more fair overall in terms of top to bottom salary.

[spoon]

It wouldn't be fair and equal even with a cap or a minimum spending requirement since you'll still have owners that opt to spend as cheaply as possible. Let's say the minimum is $50 million and the cap is $120 million: are people going to still be crying when some teams are spending $50-$60 million and a select few are spending $100-$120 million?

What do you pro-cap people think the cap should be?

$75 Million Floor
$150 Million Ceiling

Even the MLBPA would gain from this bc the money from teams coming up (many) would outweigh those coming down (ONE Team). In fact, this would also push out half-assed owners and or teams/markets or they'll make adjustments and become much more competitive. This would allow most teams to keep core players, trades would be much more reasonable at deadlines, and I'd respect WS titles much more in the end. As of late, it's been a joke no matter how lucky some lesser teams get.

If this year didn't show it clear as day, I don't know what to tell you.

[Kevin]

$75 Million Floor
$150 Million Ceiling



That sounds pretty fair too me.

I was thinking 150 also.

[spoon]

I honestly dont know what the cap should be, but the minimum shouldnt be that far apart from it. Id say $30-$35 million should seperate the cap from the minimum. That would definitely weed out owners that shouldnt own teams and maybe fold up some teams that cities have no right having.

drjoe, Im not faulting the Yankees for using the system. The system is in place and they are doing what they have to to win. Thats fine with me. My problem is with the system, not the Yankees. I dont give a fuck how much money they make, they should only be allowed to spend as much as every other team.

You people cannot say it doesnt work because the NFL does it and its the most popular and rich sports league in the world. It can work. But I dont blame Boston and NY fans for not wanting it. Because right now the advantage is all yours.

A few years back they instituted the cap in hockey too, and even though I was a Flyers fan, a team that had plenty of cash and an owner not afraid to spend whatever he could to get players, I still felt it was the right move and the fair move.

You see TS, the yankees and their front office/owners have been plenty to blame as they pretty much control Selig and MLB for decades now. They have all but threatened to sue MLB even if they try to regulate it's OWN LEAGUE! Boston only spends somewhat close (~ 80 million less) to keep up with them, and have consistently asked for a cap. There is pretty much two entities that don't want a cap, NYY and MLBPA. The MLBPA thinks salaries will go down, but with my cap numbers or somewhat close, it would actually come up. Do the math, so many teams would come up, while only one would go down with a huge net gain.

This would do so much for the competitive balance as opposed to these gimmick pseudo fixes imposed on fans from Selig and his emporer out of ny. It would not allow ny to bury all their mistakes, trade for and acquire a whole new bench, make huge moves at the deadline almost any year and fill all holes with cock (free agents) at any moment. Any time the top three free agents go to a team already laden with top talent, it's a fucking joke.

[spoon]

Wait 'til you guys see what my Angels do to them!

your keyboard to God's monitor Greg

[spoon]

I don't care what cap number is put into place, I just want a fair free agent compensation model and international players to go into the draft.

Yet another HUGE advantage exploited by big money teams making the draft all but a joke.

So then I ask, how does a team truly rebuild and create a core? And even when they do, how do they keep it? Just watch the Rays this year and further as the team is torn apart. Not to mention they hit the perfect storm of multiple young players not only coming through, but during the same year...and a down year for the powers that be in Boston and NY as well. Yah, they prove it can be done...RIGHT!

[TheMojoPin]

$75 Million Floor
$150 Million Ceiling

Even the MLBPA would gain from this bc the money from teams coming up (many) would outweigh those coming down (ONE Team). In fact, this would also push out half-assed owners and or teams/markets or they'll make adjustments and become much more competitive. This would allow most teams to keep core players, trades would be much more reasonable at deadlines, and I'd respect WS titles much more in the end. As of late, it's been a joke no matter how lucky some lesser teams get.

If this year didn't show it clear as day, I don't know what to tell you.

But why wouldn't you complain about that, too? You'd still have teams spending twice as much as other teams.

The cap/minimum stuff doesn't seem to feasable given the attitude of the owners and the union, but I still agree with epo's idea of international players enterting the draft and a better FA comp system. The latter is especially fucked up right now.

[TheMojoPin]

playing the average? i am honestly confused. you just asked for ideas and i gave mine. don't like them? i just pulled them out of my ass, so i don't care. what are your numbers, mr big-market cubs fan?

Yeah, but your idea sucks. There's no way the owners and the union agree to a minimum that high. If a minimum was put in place it would be a low-balled settlement.

[TripleSkeet]

You see TS, the yankees and their front office/owners have been plenty to blame as they pretty much control Selig and MLB for decades now. They have all but threatened to sue MLB even if they try to regulate it's OWN LEAGUE! Boston only spends somewhat close (~ 80 million less) to keep up with them, and have consistently asked for a cap. There is pretty much two entities that don't want a cap, NYY and MLBPA. The MLBPA thinks salaries will go down, but with my cap numbers or somewhat close, it would actually come up. Do the math, so many teams would come up, while only one would go down with a huge net gain.

This would do so much for the competitive balance as opposed to these gimmick pseudo fixes imposed on fans from Selig and his emporer out of ny. It would not allow ny to bury all their mistakes, trade for and acquire a whole new bench, make huge moves at the deadline almost any year and fill all holes with cock (free agents) at any moment. Any time the top three free agents go to a team already laden with top talent, it's a fucking joke.

You dont have to sell me cuz! I completely agree with you.

[TheGameHHH]

That sounds pretty fair too me.

I was thinking 150 also.

right......and when the blue jays spend 75 million to the yankees 150 million all he'll do is bitch and complain about that too. and then prob. blame injuries and bad umpiring.

[TheMojoPin]

right......and when the blue jays spend 75 million to the yankees 150 million all he'll do is bitch and complain about that too.

Exactly. You'd have a select few spending at or near the cap, most hovering around $100 million and the same bottom feeders spending the minimum.

[TripleSkeet]

How come it works in Football, Hockey and Basketball, but somehow it wont work in Baseball? What makes baseball this mysterious anomaly that other leagues can follow the same spending guidelines and operate fine, yet baseball just seem to work within it?

[TheMojoPin]

How come it works in Football, Hockey and Basketball, but somehow it wont work in Baseball? What makes baseball this mysterious anomaly that other leagues can follow the same spending guidelines and operate fine, yet baseball just seem to work within it?

Because baseball has worked just fine without it. People gnash their teeth and wail that "the same teams" keep winning or going to the WS but that's not the case. Look at the list of winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_champions) and you'll see a ton of variance in who wins it. This basically comes down to people thinking that the Yankees spend too much (specifically people stuck in the same division as the Yankees), nevermind that they the majority of their WS when payrolls were much closer around all of baseball. There simply isn't a need for a cap because a cap of, say, $150 million would still put teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox way past the Orioles, Blue Jays and Rays. The figures proposed here makes the wishes for a cap ring hollow since there's zero reason to believe you wouldn't sitll be complaining when teams are spending twice as much as others.

[TripleSkeet]

Because baseball has worked just fine without it. People gnash their teeth and wail that "the same teams" keep winning or going to the WS but that's not the case. Look at the list of winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_champions) and you'll see a ton of variance in who wins it. This basically comes down to people thinking that the Yankees spend too much, nevermind that they the majority of their WS when payrolls were much closer around all of baseball.

Find a list of the teams to make the playoffs the last 20 years. How many are the same teams? It doesnt "work just fine" for most of the teams in the leagues.

[TheMojoPin]

Find a list of the teams to make the playoffs the last 20 years. How many are the same teams? It doesnt "work just fine" for most of the teams in the leagues.

I may be off by a couple, but looking at the list I just linked to it would appear that 22 different teams have been to the WS in the last 20 years.

That's 22 out of 30 teams.

Honestly, that seems like it works just fine.

[JimBeam]

Sure there is a huge inequity in what teams spend but making them all spend the same won't guarentee anything.

Sometimes teams are just run badly.

That's probably why the 8 teams of the 30 haven't made the World Series in that last 20 years.

They're doing something wrong.

Scouting, free agent signing, etc ...

[TheMojoPin]

Sure there is a huge inequity in what teams spend but making them all spend the same won't guarentee anything.

Sometimes teams are just run badly.

That's probably why the 8 teams of the 30 haven't made the World Series in that last 20 years.

They're doing something wrong.

Scouting, free agent signing, etc ...

I can certainly speak to that.

[TripleSkeet]

I may be off by a couple, but looking at the list I just linked to it would appear that 22 different teams have been to the WS in the last 20 years.

That's 22 out of 30 teams.

Honestly, that seems like it works just fine.

In the last 20 years weve had 19 World Series, 21 teams out of a possible 38. And thats the World Series. Id love to see the numbers of the teams in the playoffs.

[brettmojo]

In the last 20 years weve had 19 World Series, 21 teams out of a possible 38. And thats the World Series. Id love to see the numbers of the teams in the playoffs.
The only teams not to make the playoffs in that time are the Royals and the Expos/Nationals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MLB_franchise_postseason_droughts)... And the Expos would have made it in '94.

[TripleSkeet]

The only teams not to make the playoffs in that time are the Royals and the Expos/Nationals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MLB_franchise_postseason_droughts)... And the Expos would have made it in '94.

So what? What I want to know is how many of the same teams have been in the playoffs year after year. Making the playoffs once or twice in 20 years doesnt mean dick when there are other teams that make it 15 and 16 times in that same period.

[Kevin]

I find it pretty funny that you Yankee haters laughed and laughed last year when they had a bad year, and the start of this year when they were 0-8 vs the sox.. LOOK AT THIER PAYROLL, HAAHAHAHAHAHA, AND THEY SUCK. Now that they are winning, its unfair again.

You could build a physicaly dominating team in football and basketball. But in baseball thats not the case. You need a right mix of stars and role players. And sometimes you can do everthing right like crush a ball and its and out, or look so overmatched but you bloop it at just the right spot and get a huge hit.The best team on paper does not always win

[TripleSkeet]

I find it pretty funny that you Yankee haters laughed and laughed last year when they had a bad year, and the start of this year when they were 0-8 vs the sox.. LOOK AT THIER PAYROLL, HAAHAHAHAHAHA, AND THEY SUCK. Now that they are winning, its unfair again.

You could build a physicaly dominating team in football and basketball. But in baseball thats not the case. You need a right mix of stars and role players. And sometimes you can do everthing right like crush a ball and its and out, or look so overmatched but you bloop it at just the right spot and get a huge hit.The best team on paper does not always win

I couldne care less if the Yankees win 100 games or crach and burn. I just think it would be better for the sport if all the teams had the same advantages.

Oh and by the way, Im rooting for the Yankees in the ALCS.

[Kevin]

The 99 2000 A's were the best team i have ever seen that did not win a title. That team had Giambi, Damon, Tejada, Chavez, Dye. And three bonafied aces at the time, in Hudson Zito and Mulder. And they STILL did not win. You can't just throw an allstar team in baseball and just win. You need everything work right to win three rounds, esp best of 5.

[TheMojoPin]

I couldne care less if the Yankees win 100 games or crach and burn. I just think it would be better for the sport if all the teams had the same advantages.

How would some teams having double the payroll of others be "the same advantages?" It's the same thing people are complaining about now, just on a smaller scale. Within 5 years those same people would be complaining that the cap would have to be lower. You'd still have the same disparity in terms of which teams consistently go to the playoffs and which do not that you have now.

[TripleSkeet]

How would some teams having double the payroll of others be "the same advantages?" It's the same thing people are complaining about now, just on a smaller scale. Within 5 years those same people would be complaining that the cap would have to be lower. You'd still have the same disparity in terms of which teams consistently go to the playoffs and which do not that you have now.

Not really. Once those rules are established it takes all the heat off of MLB and puts it on the owners to put a winning team on the field.

[epo]

I find it pretty funny that you Yankee haters laughed and laughed last year when they had a bad year, and the start of this year when they were 0-8 vs the sox.. LOOK AT THIER PAYROLL, HAAHAHAHAHAHA, AND THEY SUCK. Now that they are winning, its unfair again.

You could build a physicaly dominating team in football and basketball. But in baseball thats not the case. You need a right mix of stars and role players. And sometimes you can do everthing right like crush a ball and its and out, or look so overmatched but you bloop it at just the right spot and get a huge hit.The best team on paper does not always win

Shut up. I want my first rounder for Sabathia and I'm sure Spoon wants his for Burnett.

I'm blaming you for this problem, assface.

[Kevin]

Shut up. I want my first rounder for Sabathia and I'm sure Spoon wants his for Burnett.

I'm blaming you for this problem, assface.



Shit, now i am 100bucks in the hole, AND two first rounders?

Goddamn it.

[TheMojoPin]

Not really. Once those rules are established it takes all the heat off of MLB and puts it on the owners to put a winning team on the field.

What "heat" is on MLB now to set up a minimum payroll or cap?

And how is not already "on the owners" to put a winning team on the field? The minimum of $75 million wouldn't force anyone to field a good team.

[TripleSkeet]

What "heat" is on MLB now to set up a minimum payroll or cap?

And how is not already "on the owners" to put a winning team on the field? The minimum of $75 million wouldn't force anyone to field a good team.

Right now, when people complain about their teams losing and never making the playoffs the response they get from their team ownership is "We just dont have the money to compete with teams like the Yankess and Red Sox. They can simply outbid us for any free agent so weve got to try and win with what weve got."

A salary cap would eliminate that excuse. Free agents would be more evenly distributed at least. I know youd never see one team signing the 3 biggest free agents of the year, thats for sure.

And there is plenty of heat on the MLB to put in a cap. Probably not where you are because the Cubs do spend money. Same with the Phillies now. But I remember the not so distant past here, and Ive got friends in places like Florida and Pittsburgh that are tired of seeing their teams improve only to get dismantled year after year.

[TheMojoPin]

Right now, when people complain about their teams losing and never making the playoffs the response they get from their team ownership is "We just dont have the money to compete with teams like the Yankess and Red Sox. They can simply outbid us for any free agent so weve got to try and win with what weve got."

Who is using or can use that excuse besides teams in the same division as them? And really, the complaints are about the Yankees because you've got teams in other divisions spending around or above what the Red Sox do and you don't hear the same griping. Last offseason was an unusually thin one in terms of decent FA, but even with the cap and minimum numbers proposed here Tex and CC would have ended up either with Boston or NY. Nothing would have changed.

A salary cap would eliminate that excuse. Free agents would be more evenly distributed at least. I know youd never see one team signing the 3 biggest free agents of the year, thats for sure.

You don't see that that often to begin with. It was very unusual that the 2 biggest free agents went to the same team (who the fuck is the 3rd? Burnett? He's awful for the money he's making). And "eliminating an excuse" wouldn't force anyone to do anything. They could just say any number of other excuses to keep their payroll at the minimum.

And there is plenty of heat on the MLB to put in a cap. Probably not where you are because the Cubs do spend money. Same with the Phillies now. But I remember the not so distant past here, and Ive got friends in places like Florida and Pittsburgh that are tired of seeing their teams improve only to get dismantled year after year.

And the majority of the baseball fanbase is made up of people rooting for teams that spend. The gripes from small markets aren't really going to change things because they still have their same core audience that buys tickets and watches games on TV and buys merch year after year. Until those people stop showing up, spending and tuning in, nothing changes.

[JPMNICK]

factor in huge Yankee busts that did as much to hurt the team as to help it, and you get much closer to a level playing field. when you spend that much you try to force it to work (clemens last year, randy johnson, 40 million on pavano, 50 on Igawa). that is money that could have been spent on developing talent. instead the cheap talent goes to other teams. it kind of balances itself out.

[Marc with a c]

that is money that could have been spent on developing talent. instead the cheap talent goes to other teams. it kind of balances itself out.

what?

[TheMojoPin]

factor in huge Yankee busts that did as much to hurt the team as to help it, and you get much closer to a level playing field. when you spend that much you try to force it to work (clemens last year, randy johnson, 40 million on pavano, 50 on Igawa). that is money that could have been spent on developing talent. instead the cheap talent goes to other teams. it kind of balances itself out.

That's kinda crazy talk.

[Marc with a c]

That's kinda crazy talk.

thinking about it it might make some sense. the cheap talent does go to other teams, especially in the draft like when the yankees first round pick (29) get $300k less than the pirates first round pick (4) in bonus money.

[JPMNICK]

thinking about it it might make some sense. the cheap talent does go to other teams, especially in the draft like when the yankees first round pick (29) get $300k less than the pirates first round pick (4) in bonus money.

it def makes sense. Yanks have a ton of money, but not unlimited. they have to pass on certain things (i.e Johan) to get other things.

they pass on younger talent that other teams sign because they go for bigger stars. there is no guarantee either way. Obviously one is more proven, but as you saw with TB and the marlins and other teams, the smaller markets who draft well do have the chance to make it.

i could be just talking out of my ass, but as a yankee fan i get really jealous of young talent on other team and why i love cervilli and brett gardner so much

[Marc with a c]

it def makes sense. Yanks have a ton of money, but not unlimited. they have to pass on certain things (i.e Johan) to get other things.

they didn't pass on johan because of money.

they pass on younger talent that other teams sign because they go for bigger stars. there is no guarantee either way. Obviously one is more proven, but as you saw with TB and the marlins and other teams, the smaller markets who draft well do have the chance to make it.

what younger free agent "stars" are you talking about? and yes drafting at the top of the draft for ten years will eventually pay off for a couple years until those guys hit free agency.

i could be just talking out of my ass, but as a yankee fan i get really jealous of young talent on other team and why i love cervilli and brett gardner so much

you are.

[TjM]

factor in huge Yankee busts that did as much to hurt the team as to help it, and you get much closer to a level playing field. when you spend that much you try to force it to work (clemens last year, randy johnson, 40 million on pavano, 50 on Igawa). that is money that could have been spent on developing talent. instead the cheap talent goes to other teams. it kind of balances itself out.

That's the advantage teams like the Sox and Yanks can absorb those hits and still make a run. For other teams those signings would have surely torpedod a season if not many

Edit: I like the current system because I'm a Sox fan

[sailor]

That's the advantage teams like the Sox and Yanks can absorb those hits and still make a run. For other teams those signings would have surely torpedod a season if not many

Edit: I like the current system because I'm a Sox fan

but, I heard it's only fair to the Yankees!

[Alfredo Aceves's Backpack]

I hope I get to party again soon! I got soaked on Sunday night!

[Doctor Z]

SO... This is irritating. Just heard that Girardi swapped Hinske for Freddy Guzman on the ALCS roster. What the FUCK? Guzman brings literally NOTHING to the table. At least Hinske provides some power off the bench and brings with him some veteran postseason experience (regardless of his role, he's been to the last two World Series). Guzman, on the other hand, is basically just wasting a spot on the roster. Terrible move in my opinion. The Yankees already have the fastest pinch runner in the game on their roster. And in the rare case we actually need another one, we're carrying Jerry Hairston. Hell, you could even argue Cervelli could be used as a pinch runner. So what does Freddy Guzman bring? A fourth pinch runner? The dude has 1 career home run. I have no idea how this roster move makes sense.

[TheGameHHH]

SO... This is irritating. Just heard that Girardi swapped Hinske for Freddy Guzman on the ALCS roster. What the FUCK? Guzman brings literally NOTHING to the table. At least Hinske provides some power off the bench and brings with him some veteran postseason experience (regardless of his role, he's been to the last two World Series). Guzman, on the other hand, is basically just wasting a spot on the roster. Terrible move in my opinion. The Yankees already have the fastest pinch runner in the game on their roster. And in the rare case we actually need another one, we're carrying Jerry Hairston. Hell, you could even argue Cervelli could be used as a pinch runner. So what does Freddy Guzman bring? A fourth pinch runner? The dude has 1 career home run. I have no idea how this roster move makes sense.

i agree that it can be questioned. but id argue that guzman is the second fastest player on that team. in game 2, melky is going to sit and gardner is going to play. if theres a situation where the game is on the line in games 2 or 6 guzman is your guy off the bench.

[Doctor Z]

Honestly, I would not have changed a thing, with the exception of Bruney for Marte. Marte sucks a nut, and I would've made the same move. Aside from that, I love the dynamic of our bench. Everything from speed to power, youth to experience. Popping out Hinske for Guzman just takes away veteran experience and a lefty bat off the bench, in exchange for an excess of rookie pinch runners.

[epo]

An AL team whining about the bench is hilarious. Your bench never really is used and you are allowed to keep ridiculous levels of specialists.

[Doctor Z]

To counter that point, National League baseball is gay.

[brettmojo]

To counter that point, National League baseball is super flaming gay.
True.

[Kevin]

True.



Ohhhh, lets give the pitcher 3 auto outs at the bottom of the order. Be men and have the pitcher earn his damn money.

[Jujubees2]

Ohhhh, lets give the pitcher 3 auto outs at the bottom of the order. Be men and have the pitcher earn his damn money.

Then make the pitcher hit.

[TheGameHHH]

apparently, theres still 6,000 tickets available for tonights game

[Kevin]

Then make the pitcher hit.



pitchers should be nowhere near the batters box.

[Jujubees2]

pitchers should be nowhere near the batters box.

But if you want them to earn their money shouldn't they hit? I thnk it would also cut down on the number of batters hit by a pitch.

[TripleSkeet]

Ohhhh, lets give the pitcher 3 auto outs at the bottom of the order. Be men and have the pitcher earn his damn money.

Be men? At least if they bean someone in the NL they have to get up to the plate and face the music. Not like those faggot AL pitchers.

The DH just takes 80% of the strategy out of the game.

[Kevin]

Be men? At least if they bean someone in the NL they have to get up to the plate and face the music. Not like those faggot AL pitchers.

The DH just takes 80% of the strategy out of the game.



So much more to plan out when u have to face 9 good hitters instead of 6 or 7. The pitcher and manager in the NL can exhale after the 6hitter. Where the AL has to be on thier toes continously.

[Dan 'Hampton]

http://deadspin.com/5383328/god-bless-ronan-tynans-anti+semitism
Fantastic. Next you'll tell me Challenger was a crow.

[Doctor Z]

Then make the pitcher hit.

Hey, let's have the quarterback play defense while we're at it. Earn your money! EARN IT!

[Doctor Z]

MLB is looking sharp today. Spelling errors on the front page, and in their video report, Yankee manager "Joe Torre" is apparently upset about tonight's weather. I'd post a link to it, but MLB.com is retarded and doesn't provide links to their videos.

[TripleSkeet]

The pitcher and manager in the NL can exhale after the 6hitter.

Joe Torre and this guy beg to differ...
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5785/45892641.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/45892641.jpg/)

[Kevin]

Joe Torre and this guy beg to differ...
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5785/45892641.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/45892641.jpg/)



Philly is a diff story. Their lineup is so good that it can compete in the AL. but most NL lineups are not like that.

[spoon]

But why wouldn't you complain about that, too? You'd still have teams spending twice as much as other teams.

The cap/minimum stuff doesn't seem to feasable given the attitude of the owners and the union, but I still agree with epo's idea of international players enterting the draft and a better FA comp system. The latter is especially fucked up right now.

I wouldn't complain bc we'd have SOME form of spending controls and EVERYBODY would be playing in a fair system within 100 million dollars of each other. In fact, it would be 75 million and that's about the difference right now between the yankees at number 1 and the next closest fucking team. That is a HUGE factor in this discussion, not to mention the the top to bottom difference is at 200 million right now!! To me, that's pro versus single A at that point. I mean come on, if you support this you're fucking insane!

right......and when the blue jays spend 75 million to the yankees 150 million all he'll do is bitch and complain about that too. and then prob. blame injuries and bad umpiring.

Speaking of insane, here's case and point number 1. I KILL for the day when the yankees and other top markets couldn't just steal away top players from around the league including from their in division competition every year. For you to act like I have no point or a strong foundation to my concerns is ludicrous. My team in one of my favorite sport has to pretty much go against fucking giants every year, artificial giants at that. The overall effect of my plan or something similar is teams around the league would keep their fucking top players and trades once again would be exciting and balanced. When was the last time you actually saw a real trade of needed talent versus sal dumps and playoff pickups? Please H, if anyone cries about injuries and bad umping it's you. Not that Jeter doesn't make at least 6-10 errors a year that get recorded as clean hits, just as when he bats. And yes, I'm serious.

Exactly. You'd have a select few spending at or near the cap, most hovering around $100 million and the same bottom feeders spending the minimum.

I've been calling for this for years here too. Selig has no balls or care as long as his old team at the time wasn't in the AL East and he keeps the evil empire happy.

[spoon]

Because baseball has worked just fine without it. People gnash their teeth and wail that "the same teams" keep winning or going to the WS but that's not the case. Look at the list of winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_champions) and you'll see a ton of variance in who wins it. This basically comes down to people thinking that the Yankees spend too much (specifically people stuck in the same division as the Yankees), nevermind that they the majority of their WS when payrolls were much closer around all of baseball. There simply isn't a need for a cap because a cap of, say, $150 million would still put teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox way past the Orioles, Blue Jays and Rays. The figures proposed here makes the wishes for a cap ring hollow since there's zero reason to believe you wouldn't sitll be complaining when teams are spending twice as much as others.

This is so wrong it's actually pathetic. You truly think 75 million and 200 million is similar? Or the use of "twice" versus actual numbers/values will trick me into thinking there isn't a difference? As for the past, the issue wasn't the payroll versus many other KNOWN factors that gave the NYY's a ton of great players regardless of pay which was largely controlled at the time. So yes, financially teams wouldn't differ much, but their core of players surely did. Hell, for decades KC was just another of NY's farm team.

Also, did you hear anyone cry about salary when the Wings or Giants won their titles of late? No. Simply bc the gap is much better controlled in those leagues now. Simply acting like everyone will/would still complain doesn't make it so. Don't you see people here from every team outside of the yank fans see the need for it? Perhaps I should add the Cubs too, but many other high market/big spending team fans also want a change.

[spoon]

I may be off by a couple, but looking at the list I just linked to it would appear that 22 different teams have been to the WS in the last 20 years.

That's 22 out of 30 teams.

Honestly, that seems like it works just fine.

Well first off, 20 years?! Come on mojo, this phenomenon pretty much began in the late 90's, only to get to rediculous levels in around 04. Do that so called evaluation for this time period, and do me a favor and let's not try to claim those divisions without the crazy spending core right now as a diverse list of divisional champions over that time.

Back as little as 1997, the difference from top to bottom was 37 million (52 NYY, Wash 15), now it's nothing short of insane. Yah, let's keep down this awesome path.

[spoon]

Sure there is a huge inequity in what teams spend but making them all spend the same won't guarentee anything.

Sometimes teams are just run badly.

That's probably why the 8 teams of the 30 haven't made the World Series in that last 20 years.

They're doing something wrong.

Scouting, free agent signing, etc ...

Yet is surely DOES hide those awful run teams who spend to hide it. And teams like Tampa last year surely love the system as well. I'm sure their one year of utter luck, magical timing has them sold on this awesome way.

[spoon]

I find it pretty funny that you Yankee haters laughed and laughed last year when they had a bad year, and the start of this year when they were 0-8 vs the sox.. LOOK AT THIER PAYROLL, HAAHAHAHAHAHA, AND THEY SUCK. Now that they are winning, its unfair again.

You could build a physicaly dominating team in football and basketball. But in baseball thats not the case. You need a right mix of stars and role players. And sometimes you can do everthing right like crush a ball and its and out, or look so overmatched but you bloop it at just the right spot and get a huge hit.The best team on paper does not always win

That's idiotic too. So now you REALLY think I fell back in love with the system when the yanks didn't start amazing as they have done for years now. Come on kev, I all but screamed the yanks and sox would be at the top by years end, and also said the Rays won't see the playoffs again for over a decade.

And way to sum up baseball and the power of a 5 game series!! If anything, the SUDDEN turnaround by one major player returning to a cast of many others shows just how much 1 or two huge players could do for an offensive lineup. Not to mention CC loves to shed his 5 winter coat in the spring with his usual slow start.

Oh and you can't simplify the nfl so easily by any stretch! Fuck the nba, I don't even care, but ur summary of how to win in football was sophmoric.

[spoon]

I couldne care less if the Yankees win 100 games or crach and burn. I just think it would be better for the sport if all the teams had the same advantages.

Oh and by the way, Im rooting for the Yankees in the ALCS.

I used to not hate you.

[spoon]

The 99 2000 A's were the best team i have ever seen that did not win a title. That team had Giambi, Damon, Tejada, Chavez, Dye. And three bonafied aces at the time, in Hudson Zito and Mulder. And they STILL did not win. You can't just throw an allstar team in baseball and just win. You need everything work right to win three rounds, esp best of 5.

How do you sum up getting INTO said playoff and that small sample of 162 games baseball wizard?

[Mitch&Murray]

http://actingschmacting.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/broken-record.jpg

[spoon]

Shit, now i am 100bucks in the hole, AND two first rounders?

Goddamn it.

As if you'll ever man up and pay ur bet off. You could have come by to many events and squared up. You're a soft bitch.

[spoon]

Who is using or can use that excuse besides teams in the same division as them? And really, the complaints are about the Yankees because you've got teams in other divisions spending around or above what the Red Sox do and you don't hear the same griping. Last offseason was an unusually thin one in terms of decent FA, but even with the cap and minimum numbers proposed here Tex and CC would have ended up either with Boston or NY. Nothing would have changed.





Wrong. The yankees would have been over the cap to begin with, and the sox would have been way too close to it. Simply not true.

[spoon]

factor in huge Yankee busts that did as much to hurt the team as to help it, and you get much closer to a level playing field. when you spend that much you try to force it to work (clemens last year, randy johnson, 40 million on pavano, 50 on Igawa). that is money that could have been spent on developing talent. instead the cheap talent goes to other teams. it kind of balances itself out.

No it doesn't. They just buried those moves and spent more.

[Kevin]

That's idiotic too. So now you REALLY think I fell back in love with the system when the yanks didn't start amazing as they have done for years now. Come on kev, I all but screamed the yanks and sox would be at the top by years end, and also said the Rays won't see the playoffs again for over a decade.

And way to sum up baseball and the power of a 5 game series!! If anything, the SUDDEN turnaround by one major player returning to a cast of many others shows just how much 1 or two huge players could do for an offensive lineup. Not to mention CC loves to shed his 5 winter coat in the spring with his usual slow start.

Oh and you can't simplify the nfl so easily by any stretch! Fuck the nba, I don't even care, but ur summary of how to win in football was sophmoric.



Not really meant for you. You have always been pro cap.

And football has always been pure physical. Do you have to make smart moves and draft well? Sure, my team is built on the draft.

I was only saying that if you stock up on physically dominating players, its a much bigger factor in those two sports.

[JerseyRich]

I like the Yankees.

I hope they win the World Series.

That is all.

[Kevin]

As if you'll ever man up and pay ur bet off. You could have come by to many events and squared up. You're a soft bitch.



Like i ever went to events before the bet.

[Mitch&Murray]

IS 10 posts on one page of a thread a record?

[spoon]

it def makes sense. Yanks have a ton of money, but not unlimited. they have to pass on certain things (i.e Johan) to get other things.

they pass on younger talent that other teams sign because they go for bigger stars. there is no guarantee either way. Obviously one is more proven, but as you saw with TB and the marlins and other teams, the smaller markets who draft well do have the chance to make it.

i could be just talking out of my ass, but as a yankee fan i get really jealous of young talent on other team and why i love cervilli and brett gardner so much

OK, first off the yanks didn't get Santana bc they had to TRADE actual talent for it and refused. Baby yankee execs simply get what they want without giving up jack, so they did their norm, waited for the next FA pitcher and got them for free.

Next, they don't "pass" on young talent, other teams control their rights. If they could, many young studs like Mauer and Crawford would be in the fold already. I'm sure they'll be targets soon enough.

[spoon]

An AL team whining about the bench is hilarious. Your bench never really is used and you are allowed to keep ridiculous levels of specialists.

Especially a team that pretty much replaced 90% of there's mid-year.

[FebruaryEast]

Lets Go Yankees!!!!!!!!

[GregoryJoseph]

LET'S GO ANGELS!!!

[sailor]

You go wait for the reds thread to start!

[TripleSkeet]

I used to not hate you.

Sorry, but I want the Yankees to win the ALCS, and the Phillies to win the NLCS. Because as a Phillies fan, the only thing that could top winning a World Series is beating a NY team to do it.

[Kevin]

You go wait for the reds thread to start!

And the season to end in may

[zildjian361]

LET'S GO ANGELS!!!

YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN , SHIT RIGHT ON TIME IT'S STARTIN TO RAIN:wallbash::drunk:

[zildjian361]

http://actingschmacting.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/broken-record.jpg

PRETTY MUCH:smoke::drunk:

[Kevin]

HA! Nice work Angels

[TheMojoPin]

Holy shit! That's embarassing...HIPPOVAC STRIKES AGAIN.

[Aggie]

what was with arod running through the stop sign? ugh.

[TheMojoPin]

what was with arod running through the stop sign? ugh.

AROD CANNOT BE CONTAINED BY OUR PUNY MORTAL STOP SIGNS.

[Aggie]

AROD CANNOT BE CONTAINED BY OUR PUNY MORTAL STOP SIGNS.

especially not with kate there.

btw what a random couple they are. she went from dirty hippie to lip gloss metrosexual. so odd.

[TheMojoPin]

especially not with kate there.

btw what a random couple they are. she went from dirty hippie to lip gloss metrosexual. so odd.

Nah, it makes perfect sense. ARod has always loved his ladies to be pretty manly body-wise, and she's got the body of a teenage boy. It's his version of a midlife crisis.

[GregoryJoseph]

ARod is the last man on Earth who doesn't know he's gay.

[Ritalin]

Half the fucking "legends" section is empty. What a joke. I don't want to hear about the great Yankee
fans anymore.

It's Atlanta in the Bronx.

[KatPw]

Half the fucking "legends" section is empty. What a joke. I don't want to hear about the great Yankee
fans anymore.

It's Atlanta in the Bronx.

True fans can't afford those seats.

[Ritalin]

True fans can't afford those seats.

Feh. Either you fill the place for a playoff game or you don't.

[brettmojo]

Half the fucking "legends" section is empty. What a joke. I don't want to hear about the great Yankee
fans anymore.

It's Atlanta in the Bronx.
Point it out in a couple more threads. Maybe someone will care.

[GregoryJoseph]

Weren't those seats slashed from $2,500 a seat during the regular season to $1,250?

Wonder what they're going for in the ALCS...

[Ritalin]

Point it out in a couple more threads. Maybe someone will care.

Yeah, accidently put it in the wrong thread the first time.

[brettmojo]

Weren't those seats slashed from $2,500 a seat during the regular season to $1,250?

Wonder what they're going for in the ALCS...
They dropped it down again. Don't exactly remember how much.

It's probably back a few dozen pages somewhere.

[TheMojoPin]

Weren't those seats slashed from $2,500 a seat during the regular season to $1,250?

Wonder what they're going for in the ALCS...

If you start rooting for the Yankees I'll ban you.

[brettmojo]

Yeah, accidently put it in the wrong thread the first time.
It's not that empty anyway. I haven't noticed. It looks mostly full for what I've seen.

[Ritalin]

Weren't those seats slashed from $2,500 a seat during the regular season to $1,250?

Wonder what they're going for in the ALCS...

If you paid that much for a seat and didn't want to go, wouldn't you at least give the
tickets to the dogwalker or something?

[Ritalin]

If you paid that much for a seat and didn't want to go, wouldn't you at least give the
tickets to the dogwalker or something?

everytime they show the on deck circle there's at least 3 empty
seats right there. For a playoff game? Seats next to the
dugout empty?

Lame

[KatPw]

If you paid that much for a seat and didn't want to go, wouldn't you at least give the
tickets to the dogwalker or something?

It's possible that some people that hold those seats chose to dine and watch the game in the restaurant. If they are corporate held seats, who knows. I don't know how many Legend seats were sold as season tickets.

[brettmojo]

everytime they show the on deck circle there's at least 3 empty
seats right there. For a playoff game? Seats next to the
dugout empty?

Lame
Some people don't stay in their seat the entire game. Strange I know.

[GregoryJoseph]

I bet they're going for about 8 grand apiece.

Now I almost hope the Yankees win this round so they can go to the World Series and have a half empty stadium as they try to sell upper deck tickets for $25,000 each.

[KatPw]

Some people don't stay in their seat the entire game. Strange I know.

I know quite a few people who leave habitually during the 7th inning to "beat the traffic" regardless of what is going on in the game. I take the subway up when I go so I leave when it's over with the other savages. :laugh:

[Ritalin]

Some people don't stay in their seat the entire game. Strange I know.

Yeah, Yankee fans all go to the can together.

Wait, in that section isn't there a pissboy?

Or, did those great fans go shopping in the stadium
mall?

[brettmojo]

I know quite a few people who leave habitually during the 7th inning to "beat the traffic" regardless of what is going on in the game. I take the subway up when I go so I leave when it's over with the other savages. :laugh:
Never could leave a game early. Don't understand people who do.

[Ritalin]

Never could leave a game early. Don't understand people who do.

not a playoff game. Regular season, sometimes it
time to go

[KatPw]

Never could leave a game early. Don't understand people who do.

I think they take seeing a game live for granted. I don't get to go too often, but when I do I enjoy every minute.

[TripleSkeet]

Wait, in that section isn't there a pissboy?


This REALLY made me giggle.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like Ronan Tynan wont be singing God Bless America any time soon


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/tenor_booted_from_yankees_game_after_NmiZdYsI7VFwN BCZA8QxwI

[sailor]

Looks like Ronan Tynan wont be singing God Bless America any time soon


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/tenor_booted_from_yankees_game_after_NmiZdYsI7VFwN BCZA8QxwI

that's the silliest thing and obviously was a joke. love the folks saying he shouldn't be allowed to work because of it.

[Ritalin]

that's the silliest thing and obviously was a joke. love the folks saying he shouldn't be allowed to work because of it.

here we go again with the "people should be able to say whatever you want"

You can't make Jewish jokes in New York and expect to sing at home plate in Yankee Stadium.

In related news, I heard Challenger the Eagle call Robinson Cano a moolie.

[sailor]

here we go again with the "people should be able to say whatever you want"

You can't make Jewish jokes in New York and expect to sing at home plate in Yankee Stadium.

In related news, I heard Challenger the Eagle call Robinson Cano a mooli.

there wasn't a slur involved here. had he done something like that it would make more sense.

[Ritalin]

there wasn't a slur involved here. had he done something like that it would make more sense.

The famous Irish tenor — who has become a iconic staple of New York Yankees playoff games for much of this decade — admitted to making the slur Thursday to a Jewish woman who was looking to buy an a apartment in his East Side building, a team spokeswoman said.

Can we agree that when the Post calls it a slur it probably is one?

I also read that Kate Smith rose from the dead and called ARod a "beaner".

[sailor]

The famous Irish tenor — who has become a iconic staple of New York Yankees playoff games for much of this decade — admitted to making the slur Thursday to a Jewish woman who was looking to buy an a apartment in his East Side building, a team spokeswoman said.

Can we agree that when the Post calls it a slur it probably is one?

I also read that Kate Smith rose from the dead and called ARod a "beaner".

or use the actual words they quoted:

The agent joked to Tynan: "Don’t worry they are not Red Sox fans."

And for some reason Tynan responded by saying: "I don’t care about that, as long as they are not Jewish."

why would we agree to your premise? using the word "slur" will sell papers.

[Kevin]

Yankee fans don't deserve to win jack shit. All day on WFAN they have been killing Arod for running passed the stop sign.. Really? THEY WON THE FUCKING GAME 4-1 AND HE HAD A RBI! Good lord are Yankee fans the fucking worst.

[Doctor Z]

Froze my dick&balls off through all 9 innings last night. Worth every penny. CC has fucking EARNED his cash up to this point. FINALLY, a big contract pitcher who is following through.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Derek Jeter just mandated that anyone who sings God Bless America has to have two legs.

[A.J.]

Looks like Ronan Tynan wont be singing God Bless America any time soon


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/tenor_booted_from_yankees_game_after_NmiZdYsI7VFwN BCZA8QxwI

Good. Can we please end this stupid "tradition"?

I say to redeem himself, he must kiss Suzyn Waldman's bare ass at home plate.

[Ritalin]

Good. Can we please end this stupid "tradition"?

I say to redeem himself, he must kiss Suzyn Waldman's bare hairy ass at home plate.


clarifies

[A.J.]

clarifies

Now there's an image you can sink your teeth into!

[spoon]

Good. Can we please end this stupid "tradition"?

I say to redeem himself, he must kiss Suzyn Waldman's bare ass at home plate.

This is an OUTSTANDING idea. Just imagine how reduced those seats would be if this was part of the pregame. Deflation baby!

[Doctor Z]

http://peanutbutterfingers.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/cottage-cheese.jpg

[TripleSkeet]

here we go again with the "people should be able to say whatever you want"

You can't make Jewish jokes in New York and expect to sing at home plate in Yankee Stadium.


Well thats the dumbest fucking thing Ive heard all day. His line was "As long as shes not Jewish!" Wheres the slur? I thought the jews were known for their humor? Grow the fuck up already.

[Ritalin]

Well thats the dumbest fucking thing Ive heard all day. His line was "As long as shes not Jewish!" Wheres the slur? I thought the jews were known for their humor? Grow the fuck up already.

Dude, what can I say. Does it bother me that he said that? No.

But don't be naive. You can't be a semi-prominent Irishman
in New York and make an off handed comment about Jews and not expect some blowback.

Everytime someone says something stupid - and can we agree that at
least what he said was stupid? - and there's any reaction, there's always the same group of people that go "oh, why can't everybody just say what they want?" or
something like that.

Look, I don't think that old chick should have raised a stink about it. But she did and he got dinged. It never going to stop happening that way.

[TheMojoPin]

I didn't know this many people were confused about what a slur is.

The guy was making a joke, but it was poorly timed and chosen and this is the result. Such is life: it is not consequence-free.

[TripleSkeet]

Dude, what can I say. Does it bother me that he said that? No.

But don't be naive. You can't be a semi-prominent Irishman
in New York and make an off handed comment about Jews and not expect some blowback.

Everytime someone says something stupid - and can we agree that at
least what he said was stupid? - and there's any reaction, there's always the same group of people that go "oh, why can't everybody just say what they want?" or
something like that.

Look, I don't think that old chick should have raised a stink about it. But she did and he got dinged. It never going to stop happening that way.

My reaction isnt "Why cant everyone say what they want." If that was how I felt then he could have just as easily said "As long as shes not a Jew because they are greedy filthy sneaks." My reaction is more like "Why cant people take a fucking joke anymore?" And why do the Yankees have to take her complaint seriously? Shes one woman and if they wouldve just talked to him, found out it was a joke and ignored it, nobody wouldve even heard about it.

When you give assholes like this woman media attention for being a whiny cunt all it does is encourage more people to do the same.

[A.J.]

What a dumb Mick.

[Alfredo Aceves's Backpack]

I hope Alf doesn't need to be a longman tonight, because I sure don't want to spend too much time outside! It's COLD OUT THERE! Brrrr... Good thing I'm insulated!

[TheMojoPin]

Or it just encourages assholes to keep making "jokes" like that like people just have to shut the fuck up and take it.

[TripleSkeet]

Or it just encourages assholes to keep making "jokes" like that like people just have to shut the fuck up and take it.

Oh so youre one of those people that believe that people shouldnt make jokes that someone may find offensive? How the fuck did you ever find this board?

[TheMojoPin]

Oh so youre one of those people that believe that people shouldnt make jokes that someone may find offensive? How the fuck did you ever find this board?

Not at all. If people expect to be able to tell them whenever they want then they should also expect that it's not always going to go over well. Like I said, such is life. Nobody gets a free pass. We all need to make decisions that weigh the consequences of our actions and sometimes we choose...poorly. Pick your spots.

[Doctor Z]

My take on the Ronan Tynan situation:

Ronan Tynan, as someone in the public eye, needs to be more careful with the shit he says.
Gold-von Simson, as a person, needs to lighten the fuck up.
And the Yankees, as an organization, had no choice. If they send him out there to sing, they are instantly perceived as Jew-haters, guilty by association.

That's that.

[TheMojoPin]

Plus you asshats need to stop singing the fucking song. It's the stretch, not a fuckin' wake.

[Doctor Z]

Why would anyone sing "God Bless America" at a wake?

[TheMojoPin]

Why would anyone sing "God Bless America" at a wake?

Why the fuck would anyone still sing it for the stretch?

[Ritalin]

My reaction isnt "Why cant everyone say what they want." If that was how I felt then he could have just as easily said "As long as shes not a Jew because they are greedy filthy sneaks." My reaction is more like "Why cant people take a fucking joke anymore?" And why do the Yankees have to take her complaint seriously? Shes one woman and if they wouldve just talked to him, found out it was a joke and ignored it, nobody wouldve even heard about it.

When you give assholes like this woman media attention for being a whiny cunt all it does is encourage more people to do the same.

We agree more than we don't here, but I don't think there was ever a time
when there weren't some people who couldn't take a joke.

And while I don't think the woman should have raised a stink about the whole thing, she's probably old
enough to remember when being Jewish meant being kept
out of certain buildings in the city. So if she's thinking that she's not going to take that shit from some Irish singer, I can't say that I blame her.

(for the record, I'm not Jewish)

[Ritalin]

My take on the Ronan Tynan situation:

Ronan Tynan, as someone in the public eye, needs to be more careful with the shit he says.
Gold-von Simson, as a person, needs to lighten the fuck up.
And the Yankees, as an organization, had no choice. If they send him out there to sing, they are instantly perceived as Jew-haters, guilty by association.

That's that.

well done Doc

[Doctor Z]

Why the fuck would anyone still sing it for the stretch?

Cuz baseball is American. And this is America.

[TheMojoPin]

Cuz baseball is American. And this is America.

Then fucking celebrate it with something upbeat and fun instead of doing it like 9/11 just happened last week.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Well thats the dumbest fucking thing Ive heard all day. His line was "As long as shes not Jewish!" Wheres the slur? I thought the jews were known for their humor? Grow the fuck up already.

It's deragatory. Not so much a slur, but a deragatory and insensitive statement. Kind of like what Imus said.

Imus does a comedy program. Ronan Tynan does not, so yes, he should be held to a higher standard, even if it was a bad joke.

[Doctor Z]

Then fucking celebrate it with something upbeat and fun instead of doing it like 9/11 just happened last week.

That's what YMCA and Take Me Out To The Ballgame are for. Kidding aside, if hearing God Bless America during a baseball game actually offends and upsets you, you might wanna look deeper into that.

[TheMojoPin]

That's what YMCA and Take Me Out To The Ballgame are for. Kidding aside, if hearing God Bless America during a baseball game actually offends and upsets you, you might wanna look deeper into that.

I'm not "offended or upset." It's cheesy as fuck and I'm calling it out. Cut the shit, Yankees. We know you desperately want everyone to know they're in "baseball's church" by STILL trotting out something so melodramatic and self-important but you're not fooling anyone.

[Doctor Z]

I really think you're WAAAYY over-analyzing this. There's no elaborate scheme by the Yankees to "fool" everyone into thinking that the stadium is "baseball church", or that they are holier than thou... They started singing it because 9/11 happened. That's all there is to it. And by the way, since when are the Yankees the only team to sing God Bless America? Have you been to Fenway Park? Dodger Stadium?

[TripleSkeet]

Plus you asshats need to stop singing the fucking song. It's the stretch, not a fuckin' wake.

I couldnt agree with this more. If you want to sing it sing it before the game instead of the National Anthem. The 7th inning stretch isnt the right time for that.

It's deragatory. Not so much a slur, but a deragatory and insensitive statement. Kind of like what Imus said.

Imus does a comedy program. Ronan Tynan does not, so yes, he should be held to a higher standard, even if it was a bad joke.

Ronan Tynan was talking to his landlord, not making a public appearance.



And while I don't think the woman should have raised a stink about the whole thing, she's probably old
enough to remember when being Jewish meant being kept
out of certain buildings in the city. So if she's thinking that she's not going to take that shit from some Irish singer, I can't say that I blame her.

(for the record, I'm not Jewish)

Shes also old enough to know the Jews own 3/4 of New York City now too. Time to get over it.

[GregoryJoseph]

Shes also old enough to know the Jews own 3/4 of New York City now too.

The Japanese, Chinese, and Arabs own the other 1/4.

[TheMojoPin]

I really think you're WAAAYY over-analyzing this. There's no elaborate scheme by the Yankees to "fool" everyone into thinking that the stadium is "baseball church", or that they are holier than thou... They started singing it because 9/11 happened. That's all there is to it. And by the way, since when are the Yankees the only team to sing God Bless America? Have you been to Fenway Park? Dodger Stadium?

It made sense after 9/11 but now it's just the height of egomania. It's just as ridiculous when other teams do it for the stretch, too. What, do they just plan on doing it forever? If they want to sing it, why not sing it before the anthem, as most other organizations that have it do? Dropping it during the stretch at this point is such a calculated "OMG, THIS IS SO IMPORTANT" move.

[Doctor Z]

But I thought you said the Yankees' motivation for doing it was ego-driven, and to prove that they are above everyone, and that Yankee Stadium is "baseball's church"... But, they are not the only one's who do it. So there goes that theory.

I have absolutely zero problem with hearing God Bless America during a baseball game. I'm not a religious person, but for me personally, it presents a good opportunity to take a step back, look at the flag, and appreciate that I'm privileged enough to be at a game, enjoying baseball. Sorry if it ruins your fun.

[A.J.]

And by the way, since when are the Yankees the only team to sing God Bless America? Have you been to Fenway Park?

They sing "Sweet Caroline" at Fenway and "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" at Camden Yards.

Proof positive that the terrorists have won.

[TheMojoPin]

But I thought you said the Yankees' motivation for doing it was ego-driven, and to prove that they are above everyone, and that Yankee Stadium is "baseball's church"... But, they are not the only one's who do it. So there goes that theory.

No, that is the Yankees' motivation for still doing it. The other teams want to seem important, too, so they're copying the masters.

[TheMojoPin]

I have absolutely zero problem with hearing God Bless America during a baseball game. I'm not a religious person, but for me personally, it presents a good opportunity to take a step back, look at the flag, and appreciate that I'm privileged enough to be at a game, enjoying baseball. Sorry if it ruins your fun.

That's what the anthem is for. And I accept your apology.

[GregoryJoseph]

We didn't start singing the National Anthem before games until WWII, and after it was over the tradition stuck.

If singing "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch is a new tradition that starts as a result of 9/11 I couldn't care less.

Personally, I'd like to see a moment of silence before each game with an announcement that this is the time to worship any country and/or deities you believe in and leave it at that.

[TheGameHHH]

can you fems stop talking about singing songs? we're in the ALCS here lets talk about baseball. go start a god bless america thread, it'll go over as well as the salary cap one did.

[TheMojoPin]

Personally, I'd like to see a moment of silence before each game with an announcement that this is the time to worship and country and/or deities you believe in and leave it at that.

I'd like to see you publically flogged before each game.

[Ritalin]

Shes also old enough to know the Jews own 3/4 of New York City now too. Time to get over it.

see, now you can't sing at Yankee stadium either.

Just saw the back page headline of the Daily News: Angel Dust.

Edgy