MLB NL Central Offseason Discussion (What Kind of Awful Park Has a Slide?)

[epo]

Seriously folks, now that pitchers & catchers have all reported, let's discuss baseball's premier division.

Here is my start with predictions for the season:

1. Brewers
2. Cubs
3. Reds
4. Cardinals
5. Astros
6. Pirates

Live with that you Wrigley pricks!

[IMSlacker]

Probably about as good as last year's predictions.

Pitchers & Catchers have reported and it's time to battle for the NL Central crown. Rather than starting 3 different threads...I figured we could all argue in one conveniently located thread.

Alright, I'll start the mess with my division predictions for the season:

1. Brewers
2. Cubs
3. Reds
4. Astros
5. Cardinals
6. Pirates

Live with that MojoPin!

[epo]

I think we can all agree that Dusty Baker is awesome. Seriously, here is a quote from Dusty Baker yesterday about Edison Volquez (http://redlegnation.com/2009/02/19/volquez-and-an-uh-oh-baker-moment/):

"If [pitch counts] are what we have to worry about — last year no one knew what we had,” Baker said. “That’s already progress. A lot of times that second year, you’re trying to get a guy to have a winning record. We’re trying to get him to keep doing what he’s doing. [Instructor] Mario [Soto] has talked to him. [Pitching coach] Dickie [Pole] has talked to him a number of times. We don’t want him throwing the ball down the middle of the plate either.

“I’ve seen Greg Maddux throw 150 pitches early in his career. Everybody remembers the 85-90 pitch Maddux, but that was the mature Maddux.”

Dusty should have him ruined by the All-Star game.

[Gvac]

A picture is worth a thousand words


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/RedsHat.jpg


You guys are SOOOO dead this year!

[cougarjake13]

A picture is worth a thousand words


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/RedsHat.jpg


You guys are SOOOO dead this year!



the cincinnatti reds ... irrelevant since 1990

[Bossanova]

Why did the Reds let their entire outfield go and not replace them with anyone?

[Gvac]

Who needs Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr?

Seriously though, I am surprised the Reds didn't even make a run at some of the lesser free agents. I thought Pat Burrell would have been a good fit; an experienced guy with some home run pop in his bat to replace the two big guns they lost. Instead they got Willy Taveras as a leadoff man and CF and seem perfectly content to go with a youth movement for the rest of the outfield, and team.

[Bossanova]

They are only carrying 4 OF's. This is nuts. They have a legit pitching tandom and no offense

[IMSlacker]

Who needs Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr?

Seriously though, I am surprised the Reds didn't even make a run at some of the lesser free agents. I thought Pat Burrell would have been a good fit; an experienced guy with some home run pop in his bat to replace the two big guns they lost. Instead they got Willy Taveras as a leadoff man and CF and seem perfectly content to go with a youth movement for the rest of the outfield, and team.

It doesn't get much lesser than Willy Taveras.

[Bossanova]

And no one should fear the fucking Brewer pitching staff

[Gvac]

It doesn't get much lesser than Willy Taveras.

Ha!

I meant a 2nd or 3rd tier guy, not a 4th tier free agent.

I've long accepted that they'll never go after a superstar again after the Griffey deal.

[burrben]

this will be the year of the redlegs

[Dave's Cackle]

The Chicago Cubs - irrelevant since 1908.

1. Cardinals
2. Cubs
3. Brewers
4. Astros
5. Pirates
6. Reds

[Dave's Cackle]

Who needs Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr?

Seriously though, I am surprised the Reds didn't even make a run at some of the lesser free agents. I thought Pat Burrell would have been a good fit; an experienced guy with some home run pop in his bat to replace the two big guns they lost. Instead they got Willy Taveras as a leadoff man and CF and seem perfectly content to go with a youth movement for the rest of the outfield, and team.

Don't sleep on Dickerson. That kid has some serious talent. Bruce is a potential All-Star in 1-3 years.

[Gvac]

Don't sleep on Dickerson. That kid has some serious talent. Bruce is a potential All-Star in 1-3 years.

Jay Bruce lit up the league when he was called up last year, but quickly fizzled. He really started turning it on again towards the end of the season, so I'm interested to see if he can put it together and have a solid, consistent season.

[epo]

Jay Bruce lit up the league when he was called up last year, but quickly fizzled. He really started turning it on again towards the end of the season, so I'm interested to see if he can put it together and have a solid, consistent season.

He'll probably be a typical young player who is inconsistent as he attempts to figure out pitchers and pitchers figure him out. Luckily for Reds fans he obviously seems like a major talent who doesn't pitch.

[Puggle_kicker]

Im looking for a trade. I would send A-Roid (cover his entire salary) and all I ask in return is that someone sends a few bats.

[spoon]

great title

yet, we don't want their Selig tainted asses

[TheMojoPin]

great title

yet, we don't want their Selig tainted asses

Good point. Let's just drop them into the ocean.

[cougarjake13]

The Chicago Cubs - irrelevant since 1908.

1. Cardinals
2. Cubs
3. Brewers
4. Astros
5. Pirates
6. Reds


what have the cardinals done to make you think they're the top dog in the division ??

[Dave's Cackle]

what have the cardinals done to make you think they're the top dog in the division ??

They dumped Izzy. The Cardinals blew something like 31 saves last season. They'll have a better bullpen in 2009 with Motte, Kinney, and Perez playing the full season. If Carpenter is healthy they'll have a rotation to match the Cubs. The Cards can easily win 90 games.

[spoon]

They dumped Izzy. The Cardinals blew something like 31 saves last season. They'll have a better bullpen in 2009 with Motte, Kinney, and Perez playing the full season. If Carpenter is healthy they'll have a rotation to match the Cubs. The Cards can easily win 90 games.

I hope they win every single game against those lousy cubs too!

[cougarjake13]

I hope they win every single game against those lousy cubs too!

taht leads me to an interesting question



since mlb went to 19 games vs divisional opponents has any team gone 19-0 against one div opponent ??

[spoon]

taht leads me to an interesting question



since mlb went to 19 games vs divisional opponents has any team gone 19-0 against one div opponent ??

I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure the Newark Bears would find a way to win at least a few versus the MLB all-star team when all is said and done.

[TheMojoPin]

I hope they win every single game against those lousy cubs too!

YOU ASS.

[epo]

Apparently Prince Fielder lost 20 lbs in the off-season and look at him now!

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/74012/Run_run_run_.jpg

I'd be shocked if he didn't steal 30 bases. You'll see!

[TheMojoPin]

340 to 320 isn't that impressive.

[spoon]

340 to 320 isn't that impressive.

not to mention he's now going to hit less BDC's (homers)

[cougarjake13]

Apparently Prince Fielder lost 20 lbs in the off-season and look at him now!

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/74012/Run_run_run_.jpg

I'd be shocked if he didn't steal 30 bases. You'll see!




maybe 30 for his career

[epo]

Another reason why Bob Uecker is the best broadcaster ever. (http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/979322.phtml)

[TheMojoPin]

Another reason why Bob Uecker is the best broadcaster ever. (http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/979322.phtml)

Ever?

EVER?

Mental instability rears its ugly head.

He's not even the best announcer TODAY so long as Vin Scully is still working.

[cougarjake13]

Another reason why Bob Uecker is the best broadcaster ever. (http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/979322.phtml)



your brewers homerism may be worse than BDC yankee homerism

[epo]

Ever?

EVER?

Mental instability rears its ugly head.

He's not even the best announcer TODAY so long as Vin Scully is still working.

Scully did "For Love of the Game". Uecker did "Major League".

Winner = Uecker.

[Gvac]

Well, our entire 5 man starting rotation is comprised of right handers and we're banking on a lot of youth, but fuck it...I'm going out on a limb and predicting that this is the year the Big Red Machine returns to the playoffs!

[burrben]

Well, our entire 5 man starting rotation is comprised of right handers and we're banking on a lot of youth, but fuck it...I'm going out on a limb and predicting that this is the year the Big Red Machine returns to the playoffs!

fo shittays

[epo]

Edison Volquez gave up 3 runs today to the Netherlands! The Dutch are wearing clogs and still scored 3 off of him.

I would hate to see how awful he'll be when he faces major leaguers with real shoes.

[joeyballsack]

Edison Volquez gave up 3 runs today to the Netherlands! The Dutch are wearing clogs and still scored 3 off of him.

I would hate to see how awful he'll be when he faces major leaguers with real shoes.

If the defense behind him weren't using cardboard boxes as gloves he wouldn't have given up any runs.

Who knew the Netherlands has so many black guys ?

[cougarjake13]

If the defense behind him weren't using cardboard boxes as gloves he wouldn't have given up any runs.

Who knew the Netherlands has so many black guys ?



they all moved to amsterdam and got dual citizenship

[epo]

Cubs, Absence From World Series Agree To 4-Year Extension (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/cubs_absence_from_world)

CHICAGO—At a press conference Wednesday, the Chicago Cubs and their absence from the World Series announced an agreement to a four-year contract extension, with an option for another six years.

"The relationship between the Cubs and their absence from the World Series is strong, as both sides have shown loyalty to each other for the past 63 years," Cubs chairman Crane Kenney said. "It's something the fans have come to expect. Why, I remember sitting around the fire as a boy, talking with my grandfather about how the Cubs would never make it to another World Series. I only hope my children and their children and their children's children have the same opportunity." Despite rumors, absence from the World Series would not admit to holding closed-door talks with the Mets.

Its nice to know that certain things will never change.

[cougarjake13]

thats funny epo


but if someone posts something in a brewers thread and no one ever goes in that thread

did it really happen ??

[epo]

Zambrano calls for Wrigley replacement (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/11592316)

Standing in the plush visitors' clubhouse of Yankee Stadium, Carlos Zambrano made a plea for Chicago to replace Wrigley Field.

"You come into a ballpark like this and you see great things," the Cubs ace told the Associated Press on Saturday before his team's 10-1 exhibition loss at the sparkling ballpark in the Bronx.

"You wish that Chicago'd build a new stadium for the Cubs," he said.

Its the first time Zambrano has made sense.

[TheMojoPin]

Damn right. He's said that before, and he's right.

[burrben]

not a bad outing by the reds against the faggy mets. i take it as a good sign

[epo]

Don't be surprised, but the Brewers have gotten 4 in a row.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/photo_images/44015/125454_Brewers_Astros_Baseball.jpg

We're looking at you St. Louis!

[TheMojoPin]

Don't be surprised, but the Brewers have gotten 4 in a row.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/photo_images/44015/125454_Brewers_Astros_Baseball.jpg

We're looking at you St. Louis!

I'm offened that you thought the Cubs OFers were ripping off the Brewers OFers with their victory bump since the photo above clearly shows that the Brewers' version is the gayesy thing that ever gayed.

Nice prancing, ladies.

[epo]

I'm offened that you thought the Cubs OFers were ripping off the Brewers OFers with their victory bump since the photo above clearly shows that the Brewers' version is the gayesy thing that ever gayed.

Nice prancing, ladies.

While any version of the OF-bump is lame....nothing is as lame as listening to Ron Santo.

NOTHING!

[TheMojoPin]

You have a slide in your ballpark, sausage races and you got kicked out of the AL.

And this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z91G6AwhZgI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z91G6AwhZgI&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

There's 4 things.

[epo]

I have the 4 gayest words in the English language: Wrigley Field trough slides.

Homos.

[TheMojoPin]

You're just jealous that they have time for such shenanigans instead of bing stuck in lines for stalls like the shy punks at Miller Field.

[epo]

You're just jealous that they have time for such shenanigans instead of bing stuck in lines for stalls like the shy punks at Miller Field.

You are just making things up now. My bathroom trips at Miller Park are very efficient and I don't have to cross the streams with other grown men while doing it.

Fags.

[TheMojoPin]

Can't blame the Cubs fans for wanting to put their titanic schlongs on display. Those beasts are to be admired. I know you'll have trouble understanding this since the only serious sausage you rejects are familiar with are the ones in your stupid baseball tailgating.

[Dave's Cackle]

Can't blame the Cubs fans for wanting to put their titanic schlongs on display. Those beasts are to be admired. I know you'll have trouble understanding this since the only serious sausage you rejects are familiar with are the ones in your stupid baseball tailgating.

Might as well brag about their schlongs since they can't brag about the awesome jobs they have. Worthless fans who follow a godforsaken team.

[epo]

Might as well brag about their schlongs since they can't brag about the awesome jobs they have. Worthless fans who follow a godforsaken team.

I wonder what Lee Elia thinks about the employment status of Cubs fans?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uv23pqH9iG0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uv23pqH9iG0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[TheMojoPin]

Why do you keep posting that like it's not awesome?

[Gvac]

The two of you can argue about your silly Brewers and Cubs all you want.

You'll both be on the outside looking in come October, begging for a seat on the Cincy band wagon.

And I'll deny you both.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[burrben]

The two of you can argue about your silly Brewers and Cubs all you want.

You'll both be on the outside looking in come October, begging for a seat on the Cincy band wagon.

And I'll deny you both.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

fo shitties

[epo]

Sorry ladies, it appears that the Brewers have just won the NL Central:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Kjh9lQXLWk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Kjh9lQXLWk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Dave's Cackle]

Sorry ladies, it appears that the Brewers have just won the NL Central:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Kjh9lQXLWk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Kjh9lQXLWk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Were the Cardinals sent out to the AL West? That's the only way the pitching deficient Brewers are winning the NL Central.

[cougarjake13]

you're all on crack



the pirates are gonna party like its 1992

[epo]

Hmm....first place?

http://tickettransaction.com/EventImages/01723-000/MilwaukeeBrewers7893.gif

Damn straight!

[Gvac]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/995/mrredleg2007pr8.gif

[epo]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/995/mrredleg2007pr8.gif

Unlikely!

[burrben]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/995/mrredleg2007pr8.gif

Unlikely!

if by unlikely you mean "likely" in 2 innings than yes, unlikely.

lets go redlegs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

share of first place here we come

[epo]

if by unlikely you mean "likely" in 2 innings than yes, unlikely.

lets go redlegs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

share of first place here we come

3 more innings with THAT bullpen?

[burrben]

3 more innings with THAT bullpen?

5-2

lets just hope weathers doesnt come in

[burrben]

5-2

lets just hope weathers doesnt come in

7-2

its over johnny

i just quoted myself. yes i did.

[epo]

5-2

lets just hope weathers doesnt come in

I'm sure Dusty is figuring out how to get him in the game.

[burrben]

its gonna be a three way tie for first with the cubs a game back.

best division in baseball hands down

[TheMojoPin]

Reds finish the season ahead of the Brewers.

BOOK IT.

[epo]

Reds finish the season ahead of the Brewers.

BOOK IT.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen on this board since JerseySean said that McCain would win Pennsylvania.

[epo]

its gonna be a three way tie for first with the cubs a game back.

best division in baseball hands down

Alright...it appears unless the Reds hammersavage this game, its gonna be a three-way tie. All I ask is that Dusty unnecessarily runs Cueto out for the 8th & 9th to run his pitch count into the 130's.

[joeyballsack]

its gonna be a three way tie for first with the cubs a game back.

best division in baseball hands down

The Cubs or Brewers finish third if they are in the AL East.

[epo]

The Cubs or Brewers finish third if they are in the AL East.

Leagues that employ the designated hitter don't count as "real baseball".

[burrben]

Leagues that employ the designated hitter don't count as "real baseball".

exactly

[epo]

exactly

I've said this before, but if you aren't good enough to play in the field, you aren't good enough to play major league baseball.

And I'm looking right at you David Ortiz.

[burrben]

this arizona series has been great for padding numbers

[burrben]

I've said this before, but if you aren't good enough to play in the field, you aren't good enough to play major league baseball.

And I'm looking right at you David Ortiz.

when i was a kid i was an indians fan. that was before i knew better (and albert belle left)

now i cant even watch an AL game

[jauble]

I always, always hate agreeing with epo. Doesn't mean that I won't. Gay brewer's moustache etc.

[TheMojoPin]

I've said this before, but if you aren't good enough to play in the field, you aren't good enough to play major league baseball.

And I'm looking right at you Ryan Braun.

Fixed.

[burrben]

reds in first place cuz we own the tiebreaker. im writing this day down. plus we play the shitty padres the next three games. hellz yeah!

[burrben]

2009 NL Central Standings
TEAM W L GB RS RA
Cincinnati 20 14 - 158 147
Milwaukee 20 14 - 172 148
St. Louis 20 14 - 175 157
Chicago Cubs 19 14 .5 161 154
Houston 15 18 4.5 139 160
Pittsburgh 14 19 5.5 142 142

[epo]

Milwaukee 22 14 .611 - -
Chicago 20 14 .588 1.0
St. Louis 21 15 .583 1.0
Cincinnati 20 15 .571 1.5

[cougarjake13]

Milwaukee 22 14 .611 - -
Chicago 20 14 .588 1.0
St. Louis 21 15 .583 1.0
Cincinnati 20 15 .571 1.5

in 2 days you could be in 4th

[TheMojoPin]

in 2 days you could be in 4th

Let him have his moment. They're finishing this year in 4th.

[cougarjake13]

Let him have his moment. They're finishing this year in 4th.



true


he's had it hard enough with the revenge of the favre saga

[TheMojoPin]

true


he's had it hard enough with the revenge of the favre saga

It clearly sent him plunging over the edge. I feel for the poor fella.

[epo]

Let him have his moment. They're finishing this year in 4th.

Says Mr. NoChanceCubsFan.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/59687/127558_Cubs_Brewers_Baseball.jpg

[cougarjake13]

It clearly sent him plunging over the edge. I feel for the poor fella.

well if aaron rodgers were your qb, wouldnt you ??

[TheMojoPin]

well if aaron rodgers were your qb, wouldnt you ??

No kidding. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a QB that bad and that badly bearded. epo deserves our pity.

[epo]

Its nice to remind the Cardinals that they are a second-class citizen in this division.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/69059/129030_Brewers_Cardinals_Baseball.jpg

Milwaukee 23 14 .622 - -
Chicago 21 15 .583 1.5
St. Louis 21 16 .568 2.0
Cincinnati 20 16 .556 2.5

[cougarjake13]

its may and only 2 games

[epo]

its may and only 2 games

Don't bring your early season Mets bitterness down on me.

[cougarjake13]

Don't bring your early season Mets bitterness down on me.

if i remember the brewers choked last yr as well

still amde playoffs butr still choked

[epo]

if i remember the brewers choked last yr as well

still amde playoffs butr still choked

If making the playoffs is choking, then sure....but I remember the Mets losing on the last day of the season.

[cougarjake13]

If making the playoffs is choking, then sure....but I remember the Mets losing on the last day of the season.

yeh and weve made more postseasons in the last 10 yrs then the brewers


so what ??

[cougarjake13]

and giants beat the packers last year in the nfc championship

[epo]

yeh and weve made more postseasons in the last 10 yrs then the brewers

so what ??

I'm just stating that the Mets have obviously broken you to the point where there is no joy in a May lead.

Its really a shame what they've done to you.

[cougarjake13]

I'm just stating that the Mets have obviously broken you to the point where there is no joy in a May lead.

Its really a shame what they've done to you.



still have had more happy met moments then in the entire history of the brewers


so im ok

[epo]

still have had more happy met moments then in the entire history of the brewers

so im ok

Your bitterness is clearly a shame for humanity. Those Mets might be performing hate crimes upon humanity for all I know.

[cougarjake13]

Your bitterness is clearly a shame for humanity. Those Mets might be performing hate crimes upon humanity for all I know.

any more than your disdain for brett arthur favre ??

[epo]

any more than your disdain for brett arthur favre ??

That has zero to do with the National League Central.

[cougarjake13]

That has zero to do with the National League Central.



au contraire



it has everything to do with it

[burrben]

i miss last week's reds

[Gvac]

i miss last week's reds

Me and you both, brother. We put together a nice stretch of series wins until we hit San Diego.

Hopefully they right the ship after a much needed day off.

[epo]

Hey look, the Brewers just swept the Cardinals in Busch. Those standings sure are nice.

Milwaukee 24 14 .632 - -
Chicago 21 15 .583 2.0
St. Louis 21 17 .553 3.0
Cincinnati 20 17 .541 3.5

[Suspect Chin]

Hey look, the Brewers just swept the Cardinals in Busch. Those standings sure are nice.

Milwaukee 24 14 .632 - -
Chicago 21 15 .583 2.0
St. Louis 21 17 .553 3.0
Cincinnati 20 17 .541 3.5

I like these numbers better:



Avg .272
HR 9
RBI 24
Runs 28
SB 2

We can be sure they won't change for the rest of the year.

[TheMojoPin]

Hey look, the Brewers just swept the Cardinals in Busch. Those standings sure are nice.

Milwaukee 24 14 .632 - -
Chicago 21 15 .583 2.0
St. Louis 21 17 .553 3.0
Cincinnati 20 17 .541 3.5

Good Lord, are all Brewers fans like this? IT'S MAY. YOU JUST SWEPT A BAD TEAM.

No wonder you guys spaz out if someone just hits a home run. Calm the fuck down.

[hammersavage]

And his laugh stinks

[epo]

I like these numbers better:



Avg .272
HR 9
RBI 24
Runs 28
SB 2

We can be sure they won't change for the rest of the year.

Oh look....Mat Gamel's numbers started tonight against your dogshit Cardinals.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/29954/129194_brewers_cardinals_baseball.jpg

Good Lord, are all Brewers fans like this? IT'S MAY. YOU JUST SWEPT A BAD TEAM.

No wonder you guys spaz out if someone just hits a home run. Calm the fuck down.

Isn't it fun to tease the Cardinals? Its like picking on retards.

[TheMojoPin]

He laughs like criminal in an interrogation room trying to seem normal.

[Suspect Chin]

I may live in Saint Louis but I'm definitely not a Cards fan. Hence the smeared Redbird in my photo. Although I did go to the Cards Brewers game on Saturday and my god that untucking the jersey thing they do is so obnoxious.

[cougarjake13]

Oh look....Mat Gamel's numbers started tonight against your dogshit Cardinals.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/29954/129194_brewers_cardinals_baseball.jpg



Isn't it fun to tease the Cardinals? Its like picking on retards.




i wont even go all time


world series championships in last ten yrs


cardinals 1
brewers 0

[epo]

i wont even go all time


world series championships in last ten yrs


cardinals 1
brewers 0

Shouldn't you be off in a Mets thread planning a late-season collaspe?

[hammersavage]

Shouldn't you be off in a Mets thread planning a late-season collaspe?

Don't talk to him, don't look at him, you don't even think of him, pal.

[cougarjake13]

Shouldn't you be off in a Mets thread planning a late-season collaspe?

yes right next to the 23 rd anniversary of our last championship



whens the brewers annivesar..... oh yeh right

[Gvac]

Wow...the mighty Brew Crew swept by the Twinkies!

The Cubbies on a 7 game slide!

Don't look now, kids.

The Reds are winning this division.

Deal with it.

[Gvac]

Showdown in Milwaukee this weekend.

Think your Brewers are up to it, epo?

The Big Red Machine is ROLLING!!!

[OleBullNuts]

It's like 1990, sorta. Actually more like 2005 or 1999, pending the end of the season of course. Jocketty is doing wonders for a recently moribund franchise in a city that deserves much much better. Fuck the Bengals though.

[PD]

dunno if this was mentioned before,
but damn all you Brewer fans are stuffing the All-Star Ballot boxes.

[Gvac]

dunno if this was mentioned before,
but damn all you Brewer fans are stuffing the All-Star Ballot boxes.

They're in Milwaukee. There's NOTHING ELSE TO DO!

[epo]

dunno if this was mentioned before,
but damn all you Brewer fans are stuffing the All-Star Ballot boxes.

Or are we voting properly to save America?

They're in Milwaukee. There's NOTHING ELSE TO DO!

We also eat sausages and drink beer. Get it right, hippie.

[epo]

Showdown in Milwaukee this weekend.

Think your Brewers are up to it, epo?

The Big Red Machine is ROLLING!!!

The Brewers just completed the weekend sweep of the Reds...I'd say they were up to it.

[Gvac]

Go fuck yourself.

GO RED WINGS!

[epo]

Go fuck yourself.

GO RED WINGS!

I'd have Dusty Baker manage that process, but he'd probably fuck that up too.

[Suspect Chin]

dunno if this was mentioned before,
but damn all you Brewer fans are stuffing the All-Star Ballot boxes.

I think they are stuffing them in every MLB city. Every other inning here at Busch, the ushers pass out All-Star ballots, encourage you to vote all Cardinals, then pick them back up at the end of the inning.

[epo]

Phillips: Swept Reds ‘better’ than Brewers (http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/phillips-swept-reds-better-than-brewers-141576.html?cxtype=rss_reds)

Brandon Phillips is difficult to convince, even when evidence to the contrary strikes him smack in the face.

“I feel we’re a better team than the Brewers,” he said. “We lost because they did the little things and we didn’t do the little things. They’re a good team but this should never have happened.”

-----------------------------------

“They executed and that’s why they are in first place,” said Phillips. “We were doing it before we came here and we just weren’t the Reds when we came here. They saw us coming (a half game behind the Brewers) right behind them and they knew somebody had to step their game up — either them or us.”

Phillips paused and said, “It was them. Hey, they’re a good team, but we’re better.”

Now I completely understand why the Reds are Gvac's favorite team...their players are completely mentally unstable.

[loucough]

Phillips: Swept Reds ‘better’ than Brewers (http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/phillips-swept-reds-better-than-brewers-141576.html?cxtype=rss_reds)



Now I completely understand why the Reds are Gvac's favorite team...their players are completely mentally unstable.

Epo, your lack of baseball knowledge astounds me.

[epo]

Epo, your lack of baseball knowledge astounds me.

That's rich.

[Suspect Chin]

What is going on with Corey Hart? Yahoo Fantasy tells me he is starting every day and then he ends up benched.

[BlackKen]

Aint that about a bitch. Closing the year out against the Mets and we fucing lose the first two. The Mets didnt even play Beltran or Wright

[epo]

Is Yadier Molina still hurt?

[Suspect Chin]

Is Yadier Molina still hurt?

No just resting his knee in preparation for the postseason.

Is there anything worse than living in the city of your arch rival after your team chokes and they take the division, the Cy Young, and the MVP?

[epo]

Hey, the Elias Sports Bureau ranked are updated and Felipe Lopez is a Class A free agent. Congrats Doug Melvin for getting too much compensation for a decent player!

[ope]

From ESPN's Buster Olney:

Olney writes that the Red Sox inquired about Hardy at the deadline, but balked when the Brewers asked for excellent prospects in return. Olney wonders if this is a sign of things to come, and if no market for Hardy develops, would the Brewers be better off non-tendering the former All-Star?

I'd like to know what kind of grass Buster is smoking, cuz I want some. This is textbook Peter Gammons style reporting.

[TheMojoPin]

Are the Brewers dumber than the Pirates? (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594)

Source: Brewers wanted starter from Pirates — 12:39 p.m.

The Brewers did not want Pirates catcher Ryan Doumit for shortstop J.J. Hardy. They also did not want another player the Pirates suggested, right-handed reliever Matt Capps.

Doumit has his injury issues, but he's not completely worthless like Gomez is. I fully support the Brewers not wanting a guy who, when healthy, could hit 5th, help balance out their lineup and has good power. Why bother with that when they can just resign the almighty Jason Kendall?

[TheMojoPin]

No comment, epo?

"The Brewers are the new Pirates" gathers more and more steam with every day.

[epo]

No comment, epo?

"The Brewers are the new Pirates" gathers more and more steam with every day.

Wait? They didn't take the Pirates crap for Hardy?

You are a damned idiot.

[TheMojoPin]

Crap?

Your denial is staggering.

Gomez is crap. There is nothing redeeming about Gomez offensively. He is useless. Check out what passes for a career year for him:

.258 .296 .360 .657 77

Doumit, however, has been very good when he hasn't been injured. The DL issues aren't something to be ignored, but he's generally considered a good player. Plus he's a freakin' catcher, which is something your team needs.

Doumit pulled this off the year he played the most games so far:

.318 .357 .501 .858 127

2nd most games?

.274 .341 .472 .813 110

Career?

.273 .332 .448 .780 104

How the fuck is Gomez possibly better than that by any stretch of the imagination? Yeah, you'll get more games out of Gomez, but it's more games of useless shit.

Shit, even with his shitty 2008 season, Matt-fuckin'-Capps is far more useful than Gomez. It's insane if both were actually offered for Hardy and the Brewers went for Gomez instead.

[epo]

Ok...Capps to Milwaukee is a trap. Lets understand that Capps threw at Fielder's head a couple of times and there are bad feelings there. Let's also factor in that Capps had a 5.80 ERA ...wow he must be great!

As for Doumit...Milwaukee is in the process of moving in Jonathon Lucroy from AA to starter. He quite frankly isn't good enough to change their plans for.

Moving Hardy for Gomez allows the Brewers to transition $15M from their payroll to their pitching issues.

Get a clue, Mojo!

[TheMojoPin]

Or they could have moved them for a useful catcher (when healthy) and still saved the money. It would also help work Lucroy in since he'd get playing time to either spell Doumit some extra days off to keep him off the DL or to cover if Doumit does go on the DL. What, you'd rather have Kendall instead? It's not like they're stupid enough to drop Lucroy in their as the starting catcher already...are they?

Nice to see that you deflected to the to the throwaway comment about Capps. Yeah, he sucked last season (though ERA is your trump card? Really?) but was very good both of the seasons prior to that. He's nothing special but even with the shitty 2009 season he's much more likely to be of use to the Brewers than Gomez.

The Brewers' path to being the trough of the NL Central is clear; piss away, gentlemen!

[epo]

Or they could have moved them for a useful catcher (when healthy) and still saved the money. It would also help work Lucroy in since he'd get playing time to either spell Doumit some extra days off to keep him off the DL or to cover if Doumit does go on the DL. What, you'd rather have Kendall instead? It's not like they're stupid enough to drop Lucroy in their as the starting catcher already...are they?

Nice to see that you deflected to the to the throwaway comment about Capps. Yeah, he sucked last season (though ERA is your trump card? Really?) but was very good both of the seasons prior to that. He's nothing special but even with the shitty 2009 season he's much more likely to be of use to the Brewers than Gomez.

The Brewers' path to being the trough of the NL Central is clear; piss away, gentlemen!

This advice from the man who was excited that the Cubs traded Mark DeRosa for prospects so they could get Jake Peavy.

How did that work for ya?

Keep your dirty mitts away from my Brewers.

[TheMojoPin]

This advice from the man who was excited that the Cubs traded Mark DeRosa for prospects so they could get Jake Peavy.

How did that work for ya?

Pretty great, actually, since DeRosa had a shitty year and now has wrist injury issues and the 3 pitching prospects they got for him are doing very well.

Selling high on an older player who had a career year and only one season left on his contract: very smart. Attempting to replace him with a platoon that relied heavily on Aaron-fuckin'-Miles: very stupid.

[joeyballsack]

See..the Brewers had a plan at catcher after all.

They claimed George Kotteras off of waivers from the Red Sox today to fill their catching needs.

[epo]

I can't wait for the Fielder extension to get completed this winter...

[jauble]

I can't wait for the Fielder extension to get completed this winter...

Is he having a reverse stomach stapling?

[Suspect Chin]

Cardinals sign Brad Penny (http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=191292&catid=3). God I hate them.

[Suspect Chin]

Brewers sign Randy Wolf and LaTroy Hawkins. God I hate them.

Not too worried about Hawkins, but Wolf had a great year last year.

[sailor]

Brewers sign Randy Wolf and LaTroy Hawkins. God I hate them.

Not too worried about Hawkins, but Wolf had a great year last year.

is paul byrd next?

[epo]

is paul byrd next?

Mark Mulder.

[Suspect Chin]

is paul byrd next?

No but Robin Yount may come out of retirement.

[TheMojoPin]

Brewers sign Randy Wolf and LaTroy Hawkins. God I hate them.

Not too worried about Hawkins, but Wolf had a great year last year.

They're going to pay $7.5 million to Hawkins and just under $30 million to Wolf: that's GREAT news. Randy Wolf sucks balls. One decent season at age 32 when he was pitching a ton of games in the giant NL West parks isn't impressive at all.

I'm just glad the Cubs aren't the only team in the division to overpay for shitty pitching.

[midwestjeff]

I'm just glad the Cubs aren't the only team in the division to overpay for shitty pitching.

Speaking of shitty pitching, did they make an offer to Ankiel yet?

God I would love to see him crashing head first into the ivy next summer.

[TheMojoPin]

Speaking of shitty pitching, did they make an offer to Ankiel yet?

God I would love to see him crashing head first into the ivy next summer.

I have a feeling Ankiel starts the season in a team's minor league system.

I'm hoping the Cubs sign Mike Cameron or just come to their senses and keep Bradley.

[Suspect Chin]

They're going to pay $7.5 million to Hawkins and just under $30 million to Wolf: that's GREAT news. Randy Wolf sucks balls. One decent season at age 32 when he was pitching a ton of games in the giant NL West parks isn't impressive at all.

I'm just glad the Cubs aren't the only team in the division to overpay for shitty pitching.

Based on your ridiculous take on most things baseball, Chicago must have terrible sports radio.

[TheMojoPin]

Chicago does indeed have terrible sports radio: I've heard 2 seperate shows today talk about how they wish the Cubs had signed Wolf.

Seriously, why do you think signing Wolf for that much is a good idea? He had one good season at age 32 in a contract year while getting most of his starts in the pitcher-friendly NL West parks. Look at his history...he's not very good.

[Ritalin]

I have a feeling Ankiel starts the season in a team's minor league system.

I'm hoping the Cubs sign Mike Cameron or just come to their senses and keep Bradley.

Keep Bradley? Did you hit your head? Bradley is GONE.

Shoulda never been around in the first place.

[Ritalin]

Chicago does indeed have terrible sports radio:

that's the truth. I tuned into a postgame show with Buffone and OB a couple of weeks ago. What a piece of shit that was. "Oh hey dere Doug. Dis is Pat from
Palos Hills. When are da bears ever going to figger out dat dey haf to play hard?"

[Suspect Chin]

Chicago does indeed have terrible sports radio: I've heard 2 seperate shows today talk about how they wish the Cubs had signed Wolf.

Seriously, why do you think signing Wolf for that much is a good idea? He had one good season at age 32 in a contract year while getting most of his starts in the pitcher-friendly NL West parks. Look at his history...he's not very good.

It's not that I was dying for Chicago to sign Wolf, I just want to see the Cubs do something.

You always act like there are tons of available players to choose from and if we just wait long enough, we will eventually find the perfect player and perfect deal.

You can predict all you want with players, but usually it comes down to trying to ride a player's wave and get him when the timing is right. Wolf had a good season last year and there's a good chance he'll have another one. What more can you go on? You can break down the hidden stats as far as you want but I guarantee there's someone in the front office already doing that and they're aren't exactly finding diamonds in the rough.

Every move in baseball is a huge risk, but at least the other NL Central teams are making moves, the Cubs haven't made a big move in far too long.

And hopefully with the new owner, getting the Cubs to spend some money won't be as big of a deal. The Yankees overpay for players all the time, but their owner has the mindset that he will spend whatever it takes to field a championship team. Let's hope Ricketts takes a similar approach.

[jauble]

Its time like these I wish I was back in Indy.

[Suspect Chin]

that's the truth. I tuned into a postgame show with Buffone and OB a couple of weeks ago. What a piece of shit that was. "Oh hey dere Doug. Dis is Pat from
Palos Hills. When are da bears ever going to figger out dat dey haf to play hard?"

It's gotta be better than Saint Louis radio though. They once did a breakdown of the major sports (minus basketball of course, since there isn't a team here) to determine the best sports city for each one. After a thorough analysis and careful elimination of the competing cities, they honestly determined that Saint Louis is the best city in the US for baseball, football, and hockey!

[jauble]

It's gotta be better than Saint Louis radio though. They once did a breakdown of the major sports (minus basketball of course, since there isn't a team here) to determine the best sports city for each one. After a thorough analysis and careful elimination of the competing cities, they honestly determined that Saint Louis is the best city in the US for baseball, football, and hockey!

Did they get a UFL team or something?

[TheMojoPin]

Keep Bradley? Did you hit your head? Bradley is GONE.

Shoulda never been around in the first place.

If they have to pay too much of his contract then they shouldn't move him. Their money is too limited and they'd have a much better shot moving him before the deadline next seaon or in the next offseason when he's owed less. Teams clearly have an interest, but it's also looking like they're not going to take him unless the Cubs pay most of his contract given that they know the bind Hendry has put himself in.

Ricketts basically flat out said that he set a limit as to how much of Bradley's salary he'd be willing to pay for if he's traded. We don't what that limit is, but that definitely shows that keeping him is something they'll do if they have to pay too much. If they end up doing that just have a press conference with Lou, Hendry, Milton and Ricketts and present that all sides have squashed this and are moving forward into a new season. Highlight how the Cubs have Jaramillo now and how he and Bradley got along so well and how Bradley had his best offensive year when he was working with Jaramillo.

When all is said and done it's simply not realistic for the Cubs to trade him if they have to pay at least 75% of his salry given their financial limits right now.

[Suspect Chin]

Did they get a UFL team or something?

Oops sorry I meant futbol:

http://images.townnews.com/suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/content/articles/2008/11/25/madison/sports/doc492c7a0ac4569533741403.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

It's not that I was dying for Chicago to sign Wolf, I just want to see the Cubs do something.

You always act like there are tons of available players to choose from and if we just wait long enough, we will eventually find the perfect player and perfect deal.

You can predict all you want with players, but usually it comes down to trying to ride a player's wave and get him when the timing is right. Wolf had a good season last year and there's a good chance he'll have another one. What more can you go on? You can break down the hidden stats as far as you want but I guarantee there's someone in the front office already doing that and they're aren't exactly finding diamonds in the rough.

Every move in baseball is a huge risk, but at least the other NL Central teams are making moves, the Cubs haven't made a big move in far too long.

And hopefully with the new owner, getting the Cubs to spend some money won't be as big of a deal. The Yankees overpay for players all the time, but their owner has the mindset that he will spend whatever it takes to field a championship team. Let's hope Ricketts takes a similar approach.

The Cubs don't have the money to spend big right now.

You don't need to look at "hidden stats" to see that Wolf sucks: his obvious stats show that he's sucked except for last year. Given the circumstances of his "comeback" and his age it's tremendously unlikely he's going to repeat last year.

Making a move just to make a move isn't a good idea. The Cubs' biggest problems last year came from guys underperforming opposed to guys that just stink and need to be replaced. Pretty much the only positions (if Bradley isn't traded) where they could get someone new are SS and 2B and there's really nobody available out there worth shelling out for.

I would like to see them take a shot at Ryan Church to have on the bench. He'd probably be cheap to pick up.

[Suspect Chin]

The Cubs don't have the money to spend big right now.

You don't need to look at "hidden stats" to see that Wolf sucks: his obvious stats show that he's sucked except for last year. Given the circumstances of his "comeback" and his age it's tremendously unlikely he's going to repeat last year.

Making a move just to make a move isn't a good idea. The Cubs' biggest problems last year came from guys underperforming opposed to guys that just stink and need to be replaced. Pretty much the only positions (if Bradley isn't traded) where they could get someone new are SS and 2B and there's really nobody available out there worth shelling out for.

I would like to see them take a shot at Ryan Church to have on the bench. He'd probably be cheap to pick up.

I agree, the lineup is solid if guys perform -- besides 2B. It is the relief (and starting to a lesser extent) pitching that needs an overhaul.

[TheMojoPin]

I agree, the lineup is solid if guys perform -- besides 2B. It is the relief (and starting to a lesser extent) pitching that needs an overhaul.

I don't think they do at all. The bullpen was average last year and ended up looking worse than they did because the crappy offense left so many games close. Yes, ideally it could always be better but they have a lot of different in house options to try and I'd really rather that we didn't waste more money or prospects for relievers who, with very few exceptions, tend to be incredibly unreliable year to year. The starting pitching last year was very good. I think letting Harden go is a huge mistake unless they're certain that he's going to need major surgery very soon. Him not being there means a downgrade for the rotation. Zambrano/Lilly/Dempster/Marshall/Gorzelanny and co. is certainly serviceable, but they need an ace. I don't think any type of upgrade along those lines, however, will be available until closer to the trade deadline next season. We'll see what kind of shape the Cubs are in money-wise at that point.

I agree that it's boring to see them do nothing, but they have a very workable team right now. The big factors next season are to see if Soto and Soriano can get back to form and Aramis not missing major time again.

[Suspect Chin]

I don't think they do at all. The bullpen was average last year and ended up looking worse than they did because the crappy offense left so many games close. Yes, ideally it could always be better but they have a lot of different in house options to try and I'd really rather that we didn't waste more money or prospects for relievers who, with very few exceptions, tend to be incredibly unreliable year to year. The starting pitching last year was very good. I think letting Harden go is a huge mistake unless they're certain that he's going to need major surgery very soon. Him not being there means a downgrade for the rotation. Zambrano/Lilly/Dempster/Marshall/Gorzelanny and co. is certainly serviceable, but they need an ace. I don't think any type of upgrade along those lines, however, will be available until closer to the trade deadline next season. We'll see what kind of shape the Cubs are in money-wise at that point.

I agree that it's boring to see them do nothing, but they have a very workable team right now. The big factors next season are to see if Soto and Soriano can get back to form and Aramis not missing major time again.

Do you forget how terrible the closing and late relief situation was last year? Marmol was great in 2008 and bad in 2009, so he is unreliable at best. Gregg is all but gone thank god, but we are truly in a bad position late in games -- let's not mention Lou's ineptitude of managing relievers either.

I agree, we need another ace, but that is going to cost at least 15 million a year. Wolf (or someone like him) would've come in for 10 million, and while it is a risk, I think he'll have another good year. The righty-lefty combo of him and Zambrano would've been nice as well.

[TheMojoPin]

Do you forget how terrible the closing and late relief situation was last year? Marmol was great in 2008 and bad in 2009, so he is unreliable at best. Gregg is all but gone thank god, but we are truly in a bad position late in games -- let's not mention Lou's ineptitude of managing relievers either.

Gregg was awful, but the bullpen overall was fine. They ranked 3rd in the NL. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2009-reliever-pitching.shtml)
And Gregg is actually gone; he only had 1 year left on his deal when the Cubs got him. Marmol definitely had command issues and walked way too many guys but he was still incredibly effective at not giving up hits. He was also excellent once he was given the closer's spot. Marmol as the closer and Guzman as the setup guy has the potential to be very dominant. On top of that they have a slew of good pitching prospects that are going to need experience in the majors and will be getting time in the bullpen in addition to the guys they already have. Trust me, the Cubs already spent on the bullpen than they needed to in resigning Grabow.

I agree, we need another ace, but that is going to cost at least 15 million a year. Wolf (or someone like him) would've come in for 10 million, and while it is a risk, I think he'll have another good year. The righty-lefty combo of him and Zambrano would've been nice as well.

$10 million a year for a pitcher like Wolf is a horrible deal. That would have been the epitome of making a deal just to make a deal since either Marshall or Gorzelanny are likely to do the same or better than him for much, much cheaper.

And why would you pitch him #2 in a RLRLR rotation? Lilly is much better.

[Suspect Chin]

$10 million is pretty accurate for a pitcher coming off a great year like Wolf had in 2009, especially considering the lack of starting pitching available. Consider one of the few other free agent starters, John Lackey: Wolf had better numbers than him last year in almost all categories and has very similar (in some categories, better) career numbers. Yet, Lackey is predicted to get a $100 million dollar long term contract.

Side note: Some sources are reporting that the Brewers are looking seriously at Kevin Gregg as a late reliever now that they've signed Wolf. That is one move I really hope happens.

[TheMojoPin]

$10 million is pretty accurate for a pitcher coming off a great year like Wolf had in 2009, especially considering the lack of starting pitching available. Consider one of the few other free agent starters, John Lackey: Wolf had better numbers than him last year in almost all categories and has very similar (in some categories, better) career numbers. Yet, Lackey is predicted to get a $100 million dollar long term contract.

That bolded part is why I'm happy the Cubs can't spend money on starting pitchers: there's nobody out there worth the money being tossed around. And no, what Wolf got is not accurate based on his history. He's had one good year. He's getting that much because, like you said, the starting pitching FA market is barren and the Brewers are a team that actually is desperate for some kind of pitching that isn't totally horrible.

Side note: Some sources are reporting that the Brewers are looking seriously at Kevin Gregg as a late reliever now that they've signed Wolf. That is one move I really hope happens.

Me too. Gregg's problem is giving up the long ball and last year seemed to confirm his history of giving up too many. Hell, Gregg is a perfect example of why you don't go after mediocre pitchers who manage to have a good year in a career of bad ones.

[epo]

Oh wait....why didn't the Brewers trade JJ Hardy for Matt Capps as Mojo suggested:

The Pirates non-tendered Matt Capps. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/interesting-nontenders.html)

Damned idiot.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh wait....why didn't the Brewers trade JJ Hardy for Matt Capps as Mojo suggested:

The Pirates non-tendered Matt Capps. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/interesting-nontenders.html)

Damned idiot.

Capps was the throw-in, you molester-looking loon.

[epo]

Capps was the throw-in, you molester-looking loon.

Enough with the personal attacks.

[TheMojoPin]

You started it. NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

[epo]

You started it. NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Your rhetorical skills remind me of Gregory Joseph.

Deal with THAT!

[TheMojoPin]

That's just cruel.

[Kevin]

Your rhetorical skills remind me of Gregory Joseph.

Deal with THAT!

You don't have to go there.

Thats worthy of a guido hat removal.

[TheMojoPin]

You don't have to go there.

Thats worthy of a guido hat removal.

No way, that's low.

I'd pay Eli Manning to beat him up instead.

[jauble]

No way, that's low.

I'd pay Eli Manning to beat him up instead.

Why don't you just say you'll throw away your money.

[Suspect Chin]

That bolded part is why I'm happy the Cubs can't spend money on starting pitchers: there's nobody out there worth the money being tossed around. And no, what Wolf got is not accurate based on his history.

Lackey getting $16.5 million per year makes Wolf's $10 million seem all the more accurate.

[TheMojoPin]

Lackey getting $16.5 million per year makes Wolf's $10 million seem all the more accurate.

But it doesn't make Wolf any less bad.

[Suspect Chin]

But it doesn't make Wolf any less bad.

We'll see I guess. If he pitches like his career numbers show, it'll be worth it.

[TheMojoPin]

We'll see I guess. If he pitches like his career numbers show, it'll be worth it.

Who, Wolf? Outside of last year his career numbers are not very good at all. Dude's got a WHIP of 1.347 through 2008, with 3 of his worst WHIP years being 2006-2008. His ERA+ in that time is only 101 with 5 seasons below 100 (including 2006-2008 again) and one season right at 100. That's not good at all. When an older pitcher is horrible for 3 of his last 4 seasons and medicore for almost all of the rest of his career at best, it's more than likely that the good season, even if it was the most recent, is the outlier.

[Suspect Chin]

Who, Wolf? Outside of last year his career numbers are not very good at all. Dude's got a WHIP of 1.347 through 2008, with 3 of his worst WHIP years being 2006-2008. His ERA+ in that time is only 101 with 5 seasons below 100 (including 2006-2008 again) and one season right at 100. That's not good at all. When an older pitcher is horrible for 3 of his last 4 seasons and medicore for almost all of the rest of his career at best, it's more than likely that the good season, even if it was the most recent, is the outlier.

Compared to Lackey's career WHIP of 1.306, ERA of 3.81, and ERA+ of 117, those numbers aren't bad. I'd say Lackey's numbers are about $6.5 million per year better.

[TheMojoPin]

All that shows is that neither is worth the deals they got.

[epo]

All that shows is that neither is worth the deals they got.

Which is why it sucks to have to buy pitchers via the free agent market.

[Suspect Chin]

Which is why it sucks to have to buy pitchers via the free agent market.

Yet, it is a reality if you are going to build a decent team. Mojo still thinks the Yankees can buy great hitters from the Red Sox for $125,000.

[TheMojoPin]

Yet, it is a reality if you are going to build a decent team. Mojo still thinks the Yankees can buy great hitters from the Red Sox for $125,000.

But we're talking about mediocre or worse pitchers, not great hitters.

[Suspect Chin]

But we're talking about mediocre or worse pitchers, not great hitters.

Why nitpick?

I'll be more obvious: Mojo thinks the price of pitchers will stay the same over time and that prices won't go up in low supply years.

[Suspect Chin]

Epo, we haven't heard your full take on the Randy Wolf signing. Your thoughts?

[TheMojoPin]

Why nitpick?

I'll be more obvious: Mojo thinks the price of pitchers will stay the same over time and that prices won't go up in low supply years.

That's not what I think at all; what a ridiculous conclusion. I'm just happy when it's not my team shelling out bad contracts to bad pitchers.

[epo]

Epo, we haven't heard your full take on the Randy Wolf signing. Your thoughts?

I'm ok with it. Not thrilled, not upset, but ok with it.

I understand that they desperately needed to add a quality arm to the rotation and they considered Wolf to be the second-best free agent pitcher. I don't think Wolf is HORRIBLE like that loon Mojo, but I don't think he's a world-beater either. He'll probably be a solid middle of the rotation guy, which unfortunately is generally what you find & pay for on the free agent market.

To me the problem I have is that the Brewers haven't been able to develop more pitching from their minor league system. It would've been nice to have a decent young pitcher other than Gallardo develop, especially in comparison to their good luck/development of hitting prospects.

[TheMojoPin]

The ironic thing is that the Brewers effectively set the market this offseason with the Wolf signing. Was there a significant starting pitching signing before him this offseason? If not they basically established the starting floor for guys like Lackey.

And yeah, what in his stats besides last year show that he's not a bad pitcher?

The Brewers will bolster their starting lineup when they trade Fielder. They're not done fixing their starting rotation. That's when they'll get a real pitcher to make a nice 1-2 punch with Gallardo.

[Suspect Chin]

The ironic thing is that the Brewers effectively set the market this offseason with the Wolf signing. Was there a significant starting pitching signing before him this offseason? If not they basically established the starting floor for guys like Lackey.

And yeah, what in his stats besides last year show that he's not a bad pitcher?

I read predictions a few months ago of $100 million deal for Lackey, so signing Wolf for $30 may have driven Lackey's price down.

[TheMojoPin]

I read predictions a few months ago of $100 million deal for Lackey, so signing Wolf for $30 may have driven Lackey's price down.

Bullshit. Nobody in their right mind is paying $100 million for Lackey, even in a market as relatively limited as this. The only way that would be even remotely workable is if he was signed for 5 years or 4 years with a 5th option for $20 million per and even then it's insane. As stingy as the owners have been since last year there's absolutely zero chance that he would have gotten $100 million. Please tell me who predicted this so we can mock them mercilessly.

Actually, my one caveat is that the Yankees would have potentially paid that, but that's it. That's the only way that was a possibility.

[epo]

The ironic thing is that the Brewers effectively set the market this offseason with the Wolf signing. Was there a significant starting pitching signing before him this offseason? If not they basically established the starting floor for guys like Lackey.

And yeah, what in his stats besides last year show that he's not a bad pitcher?

Kind of? I believe that Harden to Texas came in a day or two before Wolf for oddly-incentive laden money, but they were the first team to go three-years. But we all knew that Lackey was going to go for at least 5 years/$75MM...so its not like his contract was realistically moved by Wolf.

By the way, I think you are trying WAAAAAAY too hard to claim that Wolf is bad. With a career WHIP of 1.315 and over a 2-1 K to BB ratio (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wolfra02.shtml), its not like Wolf is a clunker. He ain't great, but he's not horrible either.

[Suspect Chin]

Bullshit. Nobody in their right mind is paying $100 million for Lackey, even in a market as relatively limited as this. The only way that would be even remotely workable is if he was signed for 5 years or 4 years with a 5th option for $20 million per and even then it's insane. As stingy as the owners have been since last year there's absolutely zero chance that he would have gotten $100 million. Please tell me who predicted this so we can mock them mercilessly.

Actually, my one caveat is that the Yankees would have potentially paid that, but that's it. That's the only way that was a possibility.

Here (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/item_VEHbG3kGPQCbhgiOokgPlN). Just one example, I'm too lazy to search for more.

[TheMojoPin]

Kind of? I believe that Harden to Texas came in a day or two before Wolf for oddly-incentive laden money, but they were the first team to go three-years. But we all knew that Lackey was going to go for at least 5 years/$75MM...so its not like his contract was realistically moved by Wolf.

By the way, I think you are trying WAAAAAAY too hard to claim that Wolf is bad. With a career WHIP of 1.315 and over a 2-1 K to BB ratio (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wolfra02.shtml), its not like Wolf is a clunker. He ain't great, but he's not horrible either.

WHIP of over 1.3 and a career ERA+ of 101 minus last year? That's mediocre at best. Strikeouts are pretty moot when you're letting that many guys on base since it means he's just giving up too many hits instead of walking more guys.

[TheMojoPin]

Here (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/item_VEHbG3kGPQCbhgiOokgPlN). Just one example, I'm too lazy to search for more.

That's an NYC paper. Of course they're going to predict the top pitching option will go for $100 million...because they're expecting the Yankees to pay it.

[Suspect Chin]

That's a NYC paper. Of course they're going to predict the top pitching option will go for $100 million...because they're expecting the Yankees to pay it.

I knew you'd have some excuse no matter who the source was. Here's (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/lackey-looking-to-exceed-burnetts-deal.html) another. I don't think anyone actually thought he would get $100, but the predictions were out there. Point is, quality starting pitching is more valuable than you would like to admit.

[TheMojoPin]

I knew you'd have some excuse no matter who the source was. Here's (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/lackey-looking-to-exceed-burnetts-deal.html) another.

That didn't predict anything: it just said what Lackey wanted/expected to get.

I don't think anyone actually thought he would get $100, but the predictions were out there. Point is, quality starting pitching is more valuable than you would like to admit.

Where did I say quality starting pitching isn't valuable?

With Wolf and Lackey you've got two teams desperate for any kind of reliable starting pitching. The Brewers' starting rotation is a wreck outside of Gallardo and the Red Sox are trying to compete with the Yankees. They paid that much because of the situations they're in and the lack of starting pitchers available. A situation like inflates the price tag of a starting pitcher, but that doesn't mean the cost accurately reflects their value or ability.

[Suspect Chin]

Where did I say quality starting pitching isn't valuable?

With Wolf and Lackey you've got two teams desperate for any kind of reliable starting pitching. The Brewers' starting rotation is a wreck outside of Gallardo and the Red Sox are trying to compete with the Yankees. They paid that much because of the situations they're in and the lack of starting pitchers available. A situation like inflates the price tag of a starting pitcher, but that doesn't mean the cost accurately reflects their value or ability.

You think there weren't other teams at the bargaining table that drove up the price?

[TheMojoPin]

You think there weren't other teams at the bargaining table that drove up the price?

Not really, no. I think both teams didn't want to risk that and threw down inflated offers to snatch them up ASAP.

[Suspect Chin]

Of course their price is only reflective of this year's situation. That's why it's ridiculous to say any team overpaid, because the only important thing is the situation when the team desperately needed starting pitching.

If there was a gasoline shortage, would you be overpaying if you paid $5 a gallon? No, you'd be paying what the market demanded at that time.

[Suspect Chin]

Not really, no. I think both teams didn't want to risk that and threw down inflated offers to snatch them up ASAP.

That's absurd. No GM is stupid enough to do that. That is the situation right now with Matt Holliday in Saint Louis, they could have easily thrown big bucks his way a month ago, but they let him test the market for a while in an attempt to gauge his value.

[TheMojoPin]

Of course their price is only reflective of this year's situation. That's why it's ridiculous to say any team overpaid, because the only important thing is the situation when the team desperately needed starting pitching.

If there was a gasoline shortage, would you be overpaying if you paid $5 a gallon? No, you'd be paying what the market demanded at that time.

Of course that means you're overpaying: you're paying an inflated price as opposed to a price closer to real value. That money stays spent in the coming years. Overpaying will hinder their payroll in the years to come. It's not like this is a permament shortage and that they HAD to spend that much.

[TheMojoPin]

That's absurd. No GM is stupid enough to do that.

Actually, most GM's are that stupid and it happens a lot even when the FA market isn't as limited. Aren't you a Cubs fan? You've had a front row seat to a GM stupidly outbidding himself time and time again.

That is the situation right now with Matt Holliday in Saint Louis, they could have easily thrown big bucks his way a month ago, but they let him test the market for a while in an attempt to gauge his value.

I guarentee you teams have offered deals to Holliday at this point. He's a Boras client coming off of a career year so of course they're not signing anything until the new year. That's how Boras works.

[Suspect Chin]

Of course that means you're overpaying: you're paying an inflated price as opposed to a price closer to real value. That money stays spent in the coming years. Overpaying will hinder their payroll in the years to come. It's not like this is a permament shortage and that they HAD to spend that much.

When the product is a necessity (like starting pitching or gasoline), it is a product you are going to buy regardless of price. You don't have the luxury of waiting for the market to return to normal.

This is a permanent shortage; it's the same thing every year. There will never be a year when there is an abundance of starting pitching.

I guarentee you teams have offered deals to Holliday at this point. He's a Boras client coming off of a career year so of course they're not signing anything until the new year. That's how Boras works.

That's my point. They let other teams make offers in order to get a feel for his market value.

[TheMojoPin]

When the product is a necessity (like starting pitching or gasoline), it is a product you are going to buy regardless of price. You don't have the luxury of waiting for the market to return to normal.

Sure they do. It's not a necessary product like gasoline; these teams will have pitchers regardless. Randy Wolf is obviously not a gamechanger. The Brewers are likely to stink with him or without him. Lackey I can understand more of the desire and need, but again, the Wolf signing helped set the table for him and allowed him to get a deal that high.

This is a permanent shortage; it's the same thing every year. There will never be a year when there is an abundance of starting pitching.

This is an unusually short year. There's basically nobody left now. Typically there's around half a dozen guys of varying significant quality up for grabs.

That's my point. They let other teams make offers in order to get a feel for his market value.

Again, this is a Boras client: it has nothing to do with the actual market and everything to do with creating ye olde exclusive market for what you will pay Boras to fuck you like he hates you. Similar to Lackey and Wolf, they're waiting to see what Bay and maybe Cameron and Byrd go for and then blow that out of the water because there's really nobody else out there worth talking about in terms of OFers and Borace is going to fleece the sucker for all they're worth.

[Suspect Chin]

The Brewers are likely to stink with him or without him.

Now you're making some sense.

Again, this is a Boras client: it has nothing to do with the actual market and everything to do with creating ye olde exclusive market for what you will pay Boras to fuck you like he hates you. Similar to Lackey and Wolf, they're waiting to see what Bay and maybe Cameron and Byrd go for and then blow that out of the water because there's really nobody else out there worth talking about in terms of OFers and Borace is going to fleece the sucker for all they're worth.

Why does Boras have the market cornered on driving a hard bargain? People act like he's the golden negotiator, but his game plan is obvious and should be easy to emulate by other agents and easy to dismantle by GMs.

[TheMojoPin]

Why does Boras have the market cornered on driving a hard bargain? People act like he's the golden negotiator, but his game plan is obvious and should be easy to emulate by other agents and easy to dismantle by GMs.

I agree, yet he does it again and again and again.

[Suspect Chin]

I agree, yet he does it again and again and again.

Why isn't every player in the league lined up to become his client?

[TheMojoPin]

Why isn't every player in the league lined up to become his client?

He's probably pretty selective in who he chooses to to represent.

[Suspect Chin]

A lot of shitty names on Boras' client list:




Major League

<table style="background-color: transparent; table-layout: fixed;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td>

Tony Abreu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Abreu)
Nick Adenhart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Adenhart)
Garret Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret_Anderson)
Rick Ankiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Ankiel)
Josh Barfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Barfield)
Carlos Beltrán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Beltr%C3%A1n)
Adrián Beltré (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adri%C3%A1n_Beltr%C3%A9)
Willie Bloomquist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Bloomquist)
Chris Bootcheck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Bootcheck)
Julio Borbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Borbon)
Chris Coghlan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Coghlan)
Alex Cora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Cora)
Joe Crede (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Crede)
Johnny Damon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Damon)
Chris Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Davis_%28baseball%29)
J. D. Drew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Drew)
Stephen Drew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Drew)
Jacoby Ellsbury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacoby_Ellsbury)
Prince Fielder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Fielder)
Eric Gagné (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gagn%C3%A9)
Carlos Gómez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_G%C3%B3mez)
Craig Hansen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Hansen)
Runelvys Hernández (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runelvys_Hern%C3%A1ndez)
Luke Hochevar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Hochevar)


</td> <td>

Matt Holliday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Holliday)
Edwin Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Jackson)
Andruw Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andruw_Jones)
Jair Jurrjens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Jurrjens)
Ian Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Kennedy)
Byung-Hyun Kim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byung-Hyun_Kim)
Gerald Laird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Laird)
Matt LaPorta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_LaPorta)
Kyle Lohse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Lohse)
Mike Gonzalez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gonzalez_%28pitcher%29)
Felipe López (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_L%C3%B3pez_%28baseball%29)
Rodrigo López (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_L%C3%B3pez_%28pitcher%29)
Derek Lowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Lowe)
Ryan Madson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Madson)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Matsuzaka)
Kevin Millwood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Millwood)
Zach Miner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Miner)
Kendry Morales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendry_Morales)
Xavier Nady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Nady)
David Newhan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Newhan)
Magglio Ordóñez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magglio_Ord%C3%B3%C3%B1ez)
Micah Owings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micah_Owings)
Corey Patterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Patterson)
John Patterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Patterson_%28pitcher%29)
Mike Pelfrey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pelfrey)


</td> <td>

Carlos Peña (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Pe%C3%B1a)
Óliver Pérez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93liver_P%C3%A9rez)
Guillermo Quiróz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Quir%C3%B3z)
Manny Ramirez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Ramirez)
Anthony Reyes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Reyes)
Alex Rodriguez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rodriguez)
Iván Rodríguez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iv%C3%A1n_Rodr%C3%ADguez)
Dane Sardinha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Sardinha)
Max Scherzer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Scherzer)
Scott Schoeneweis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Schoeneweis)
Bobby Seay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Seay)
Julián Tavárez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juli%C3%A1n_Tav%C3%A1rez)
Willy Taveras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Taveras)
Taylor Teagarden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Teagarden)
Mark Teixeira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Teixeira)
Jason Varitek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Varitek)
Ron Villone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Villone)
Jarrod Washburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarrod_Washburn)
Jeff Weaver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Weaver)
Jered Weaver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jered_Weaver)
Brad Wilkerson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Wilkerson)
Barry Zito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Zito)
Matt Wieters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Wieters)




</td></tr></tbody></table>

[TheMojoPin]

Wow, that's a lot of crap.

[epo]

Wow, that's a lot of crap.

Yet, well-paid crap at that.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh God, please let this happen:

The Cardinals have intensified discussions with the lead representative for free agent Matt Holliday and on Monday "tweaked" a standing offer they hope will allow them to retain the left fielder for at least eight seasons.

General manager John Mozeliak and agent Scott Boras revisited the framework of the Cardinals' lengthy proposal first tendered last Wednesday. Though both parties refuse to discuss details, the deal is worth around $16 million a season, making it easily the most lucrative deal ever offered by the Cardinals.

8 years with $16 million per for Matt Holliday?!? HAH! That's almost Soriano-stupid.

[Marc with a c]

Wow, that's a lot of crap.

plus a dead guy.

[Suspect Chin]

Oh God, please let this happen:

8 years with $16 million per for Matt Holliday?!? HAH! That's almost Soriano-stupid.

That is a ridiculous deal. I'm sure part of it is to keep a good team around Albert when his negotiations start next year. I think Mozeliak is banking on Albert giving the Cards a deep discount and I tend to agree based on his seemingly generous personality and deep entrenchment in this city. However, it is still a business, and Albert could easily land the biggest contract in history elsewhere, so offering Holliday that much could be a disaster.

[PD]

Former Cub Hee-seop Choi has been to the mountaintop (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/former-cub-hee-seop-choi-has-been-to-the-mountaintop.html)

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/choi.jpg

[joeyballsack]

Bradley Traded To Seattle (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/18/bradley.mariners/index.html)

The Cubs were so desperate to get rid of Bradley that they took Carlos Silva in a trade ?

[PD]

Bradley Traded To Seattle (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/18/bradley.mariners/index.html)

The Cubs were so desperate to get rid of Bradley that they took Carlos Silva in a trade ?
you think any team was desperate to get Bradley?

[joeyballsack]

I think Seattle just got a very good player for nothing, and Bradley will thrive in Seattle where his every move is not under a microscope.

[Suspect Chin]

I think Seattle just got a very good player for nothing, and Bradley will thrive in Seattle where his every move is not under a microscope.

I agree with this. Bradley has amazing potential, it just wasn't working in Chicago.

Too bad we picked up an under producing pitcher with a contract similarly as bad as Bradley's.

[Suspect Chin]

The Mariners are going to be amazing in the west this year and Angels are quickly falling off.

[epo]

Cubs sign Marlon Byrd (http://www.examiner.com/x-1088-MLB-Examiner~y2010m1d2-Cubs-sign-Marlon-Byrd)

The Chicago Cubs have filled their void in center field, signing free agent Marlon Byrd to a three-year, $15M deal.

This is the epitome of a "meh" signing. Not great, not horrible...

[midwestjeff]

Cubs sign Marlon Byrd (http://www.examiner.com/x-1088-MLB-Examiner~y2010m1d2-Cubs-sign-Marlon-Byrd)

Aww, that's cute.


Here's how a real team gets shit done. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100105&content_id=7878386&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl)

[IMSlacker]

Aww, that's cute.


Here's how a real team gets shit done. (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100105&content_id=7878386&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl)

That should work out about as well as the Soriano deal did for the Cubs.

[midwestjeff]

That should work out about as well as the Soriano deal did for the Cubs.

What do you mean, with the Cardinals ending up as the best team in the Central for years to come because of it?

If so, I agree 100%.

[IMSlacker]

What do you mean, with the Cardinals ending up as the best team in the Central for years to come because of it?

If so, I agree 100%.

I mean that in a couple of years they'll be looking at the likes of Marlon Byrd as their big off-season acquisition too.

[Suspect Chin]

Jim Edmonds (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iSwi30bCI4JMC-L9hMQaIy1ZvoDQ) signs a minor league contract with the Brewers. Will this guy ever hang it up?

[strawberrypop]

Are the Rays moving to CT or Jersey? (http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/tampa-bay-rays-moving-to-southern-connecticut-or-new-jersey.html)

The Tampa Bay Rays may not be able to afford staying in Florida much longer. NESN baseball analyst Peter Gammons reports on MLB.com that the Rays eventually could be forced to move to a more profitable market.

[IMSlacker]

Are the Rays moving to CT or Jersey? (http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/tampa-bay-rays-moving-to-southern-connecticut-or-new-jersey.html)
Would they be moving to the NL Central as well?

[epo]

Are the Rays moving to CT or Jersey? (http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/tampa-bay-rays-moving-to-southern-connecticut-or-new-jersey.html)

Why don't they just move to Orlando, who have investors looking for a team?

[strawberrypop]

Hahahaha I only read the first 3 words in the topic title. You shouldn't expect things from me like thorough reading.

[Jujubees2]

Are the Rays moving to CT or Jersey? (http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/tampa-bay-rays-moving-to-southern-connecticut-or-new-jersey.html)

I don't see that working out as all the baseball fans from those areas have a team to follow. I agree that Orlando would be an option. Others could be San Antonio, Indianapolis or Charlotte.

[epo]

Another reason to hate the Cubs:

Cubs threaten to move their spring training to Florida unless everyone else chips in: (http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/02/01/daily58.html?surround=lfn)

The city of Mesa and the Arizona Legislature are formulating a special deal to build the Cubs a new spring training stadium in the East Valley. The plan is to finance construction by increasing Maricopa County rental car taxes on tourists and imposing a first-of-its-kind ticket fee on all Cactus League games.

Some of the 14 other Cactus League teams, including the Arizona Diamondbacks and Chicago White Sox, have announced their opposition to a leaguewide ticket fee, saying their fans shouldn’t have to fund a Cubs ballpark.

I hope you move to Florida, fucking deadbeats.

[Suspect Chin]

Another reason to hate the Cubs:

Cubs threaten to move their spring training to Florida unless everyone else chips in: (http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/02/01/daily58.html?surround=lfn)



I hope you move to Florida, fucking deadbeats.

You read articles about as thoroughly as Dude!/Serpico.

The article states that the Cubs have an annual impact of $138 million in Mesa and contribute 22% of the overall Spring Training attendance each year.

If they left, it would have a huge impact on the local economy and the attendance at other teams' games (based on the idea that many people go there mainly to see the Cubs but happen to see other teams as well).

Therefore, I agree that the other teams and the citizens have a responsibility to contribute to keeping them there.

Also, Naples (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/sports/baseball/29cubs.html) offered to build them a stadium to lure them to Florida, so AZ had to move quickly to counteroffer.

[epo]

You read articles about as thoroughly as Dude!/Serpico.

The article states that the Cubs have an annual impact of $138 million in Mesa and contribute 22% of the overall Spring Training attendance each year.

If they left, it would have a huge impact on the local economy and the attendance at other teams' games (based on the idea that many people go there mainly to see the Cubs but happen to see other teams as well).

Therefore, I agree that the other teams and the citizens have a responsibility to contribute to keeping them there.

Also, Naples (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/sports/baseball/29cubs.html) offered to build them a stadium to lure them to Florida, so AZ had to move quickly to counteroffer.

By that logic, MLB should have to help the Yankees as they are the "major national draw" for their TV contracts.

Scumbag Cubs.

[Snoogans]

You read articles about as thoroughly as Dude!/Serpico.

The article states that the Cubs have an annual impact of $138 million in Mesa and contribute 22% of the overall Spring Training attendance each year.

If they left, it would have a huge impact on the local economy and the attendance at other teams' games (based on the idea that many people go there mainly to see the Cubs but happen to see other teams as well).

Therefore, I agree that the other teams and the citizens have a responsibility to contribute to keeping them there.

Also, Naples (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/sports/baseball/29cubs.html) offered to build them a stadium to lure them to Florida, so AZ had to move quickly to counteroffer.

yea, the economy would boom cause those bums would finally go get jobs

[epo]

yea, the economy would boom cause those bums would finally go get jobs

Hahaha! Now I have no choice other than to post my favorite Cubs clip:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uv23pqH9iG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uv23pqH9iG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

13 days until pitchers & catchers report!

[Suspect Chin]

By that logic, MLB should have to help the Yankees as they are the "major national draw" for their TV contracts.

Scumbag Cubs.

No. The equivalent would be if the Yankees brought in 22% of the league's profits and threatened to move to London because New York wouldn't buy them a new stadium. Then, the people of New York and the other teams would pitch in to buy them a stadium in order to keep 1/5 of their revenue in the country.

[Snoogans]

No. The equivalent would be if the Yankees brought in 22% of the league's profits and threatened to move to London because New York wouldn't buy them a new stadium. Then, the people of New York and the other teams would pitch in to buy them a stadium in order to keep 1/5 of their revenue in the country.

would they? Seattle seemed pretty attached to the sonics and they were a huge part of the local economy and the city and the people wouldnt pay and let them leave

[epo]

By the way, if that scumbag Andre Dawson puts on any Cubs garb at the Hall of Fame induction, I hope they throw him out of the Hall immediately.

[Suspect Chin]

It's up to each city. I was just throwing out a theoretical. It sounds like Seattle called the Sonics' bluff and it blew up in their face. I don't remember that specific deal.

[epo]

No. The equivalent would be if the Yankees brought in 22% of the league's profits and threatened to move to London because New York wouldn't buy them a new stadium. Then, the people of New York and the other teams would pitch in to buy them a stadium in order to keep 1/5 of their revenue in the country.

So the Cubs are going to take in heavy at the gate, spend at a solid rate on players and then claim to be the Sisters of the Poor?

Bullshit. Its a bluff.

[Snoogans]

So the Cubs are going to take in heavy at the gate, spend at a solid rate on players and then claim to be the Sisters of the Poor?

Bullshit. Its a bluff.

wait the cubs are moving to london? What a bunch of dummies. I bet they win a cricket title before a WS

[epo]

wait the cubs are moving to london? What a bunch of dummies. I bet they win a cricket title before a WS

They should move to Liverpool. Even they would kick the shit out of those faggots from Everton.

[Snoogans]

They should move to Liverpool. Even they would kick the shit out of those faggots from Everton.

watch what happens next week after fellaini takes out drogba in the 8th minute

Analka sucks balls

[Suspect Chin]

So the Cubs are going to take in heavy at the gate, spend at a solid rate on players and then claim to be the Sisters of the Poor?

Bullshit. Its a bluff.

They're a business. Of course they're going to maximize the city's contribution and go to whichever city gives the most.