Baseball Salary Cap?

[epo]

Since the baseball off-season threads have become a financial drag because of the Yankees' insanity, I thought I'd try to redirect some of that here and keep the baseball threads about hot stove action...rather than who can spend all of the money. So here is a reaction to yesterday's Yankee signing of Mark Teixiera from Bloomberg News:

Milwaukee Brewers owner Mark Attanasio said Major League Baseball may need to impose a salary cap to preserve competition after the New York Yankees spent $424 million to sign three players.

“At the rate the Yankees are going, I’m not sure anyone can compete with them,” Attanasio said in an e-mail. “Frankly, the sport might need a salary cap.”

Baseball is the only one of the major U.S. professional sports that operates without a salary cap, which sets a ceiling on payroll. The sport imposes a tax when teams surpass a payroll threshold and redistributes revenue from the highest-grossing teams like the Yankees to the clubs that produce the least revenue like Milwaukee.

The Yankees have exceeded the payroll limits every year since baseball began imposing a penalty in 2003 and has accounted for 90 percent of the money collected, the Associated Press reported. The methods baseball implements to curb spending isn’t working for the Yankees, Attanasio said.

Luxury Tax

“Obviously, the 34 percent they kick into the revenue- sharing pool and the luxury taxes don’t affect them one whit,” he said.

So here is the question: What does MLB do with this issue?

[mendyweiss]

You can't hit a home run if you try to hit a homerun.
The Yanks are trying way too hard

I will gladly take the field vs. the yankees to win the world series.

[foodcourtdruide]

Since the baseball off-season threads have become a financial drag because of the Yankees' insanity, I thought I'd try to redirect some of that here and keep the baseball threads about hot stove action...rather than who can spend all of the money. So here is a reaction to yesterday's Yankee signing of Mark Teixiera from Bloomberg News:



So here is the question: What does MLB do with this issue?

The players union would never agree to a salary cap and the owner's would never agree to the concessions that could get them one. There are teams that simply cannot afford to be competitive and remain. New York Metropolitain area has around 20 million people in it, and Pittsburgh has just over 300,000. It's really not that hard to see why the Mets and Yankees are the biggest spenders in Baseball. The system is completely fucked.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

fucking Yanks with their Payroll, a cap based on the last 5-10 years of spending would be suffice

Lets not completely punish the Yanks, but spending over 400 mill on the off season is nuts

I bet ole dementia ridden George told his sons to sign Winfield and to fire Billy Martin

[drjoek]

Small market sour grapes. The NFL parity is an embarrassment of mediocrity.

[The Jays]

They should leave the issue alone.

Obviously, payroll doesn't buy championships, and it doesn't even buy you the playoffs. So who cares if a team overpays for someone? If a team has money, why shouldn't they spend it? Teams not only get extra revenue from the luxury tax, they also get a nice bump in attendance/ratings when the Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, or any other All Star team comes to their town. If a team has a shitty owner who doesn't give a shit about getting anywhere, why should he be rewarded by punishing teams that give a shit, and happen to be from places where baseball was born?

The Rays won the AL and made it to the Series through homegrown talent and good scouting. The Yanks have always been buying other people's players and it's never done them good. So what, Red Sox didn't get Mark Teixiera, so now everyone needs to bitch about how much the Yankees need to be punished? It's bullshit, I didn't see anyone complaining when the Red Sox spent like 56 million just to talk to Daisuke.

[The Jays]

fucking Yanks with their Payroll, a cap based on the last 5-10 years of spending would be suffice

Lets not completely punish the Yanks, but spending over 400 mill on the off season is nuts

I bet ole dementia ridden George told his sons to sign Winfield and to fire Billy Martin

There's a difference between commiting 400 million over a period of several years and payroll. They are still under 200 mil.

[drjoek]

And what exactly is so "wrong" with this system. In the last 8 years the Marlins,Phils,Sox,Sox,Cards,Dbacks etc have won. Most of the teams have become competitive as the Rays and Brewers an example. Nothing here has changed. The Yankees did the same thing in the 50s. Move out of the sticks fellas.

[foodcourtdruide]

Small market sour grapes. The NFL parity is an embarrassment of mediocrity.

You're just saying that because you're in a big market.

[foodcourtdruide]

And what exactly is so "wrong" with this system. In the last 8 years the Marlins,Phils,Sox,Sox,Cards,Dbacks etc have won. Most of the teams have become competitive as the Rays and Brewers an example. Nothing here has changed. The Yankees did the same thing in the 50s. Move out of the sticks fellas.

The Rays and Brewers became competitive but it will be much much much harder for those teams to maintain their competitive level than big market teams. The system is fucked because a group of teams have a disadvantage based on financial reasons. The disadvantage seems to be growing every year and those teams and their fans keep getting more and more disenfranchised.

[A.J.]

I don't like some baseball caps.

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_RS_soxhat_12.11.08.jpg

[TjM]

Who cares. Makes it much more sweeter when the Sox finish first this year

[drjoek]

Plus these teams have become competitive off the luxury cap money provided by the Yankees. When they spend it instead of pocketing the money and putting crap on the field. And that arguement that the Sox did it with homegrown talent is bullshit. They do have some nice homegrown talent now but the core of their championship teams was as much as a yankees lineup as anything. But that's another thread.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

what a surprise the Yankee fans like the system


anything less than a world series appearance, and you should be cut off

[drjoek]

what a surprise the Yankee fans like the system


anything less than a world series appearance, and you should be cut off



What I like about it is that the team wants to win and does what it can to make it happen. Plus the Yankees need to be the Yankees. Baseball is fun when they are good it gives the haters a target. Like the Cowboys,Lakers,Duke etc. Sure its my baseball team but it has been for 40 years too.

[foodcourtdruide]

Plus these teams have become competitive off the luxury cap money provided by the Yankees. When they spend it instead of pocketing the money and putting crap on the field. And that arguement that the Sox did it with homegrown talent is bullshit. They do have some nice homegrown talent now but the core of their championship teams was as much as a yankees lineup as anything. But that's another thread.

How much money do you think is given to each team from the luxury tax? The real purpose of the luxury tax is to punish teams that spend excessively. It's not like Kansas City can suddenly go out and sign Manny Ramirez because the Yankees gave them $2 million.

[The Jays]

Because the system is as American as apple pie? You're like the Little League franchise that wants to give out trophies to everyone because life is fair and you want to prove it!

Face it, life isn't fair, and neither is baseball. The Yankees prove it. They spent the highest payroll every season, and since 2000, they don't have a World Series championship. They oughta. I should be tired of having a ticket tape parade every year, but I'm not because other teams keep winning. Meanwhile, in football, where the salary cap is worshiped, the Patriots have a dynasty going, with 3 Super Bowl championships, 4 AFC titles, and 6 division titles this decade and they're about to win another division, but no one bitches about them? It's bullshit.

[foodcourtdruide]

What I like about it is that the team wants to win and does what it can to make it happen. Plus the Yankees need to be the Yankees. Baseball is fun when they are good it gives the haters a target. Like the Cowboys,Lakers,Duke etc. Sure its my baseball team but it has been for 40 years too.

What does the bolded sentence mean?

[The Jays]

It means they need to be the enemy. The Cowboys needs to be the Cowboys, the Lakers need to be the Lakers, the Red Wings need to be the Red Wings, and the Yankees need to be the Yankees.

[foodcourtdruide]

Because the system is as American as apple pie? You're like the Little League franchise that wants to give out trophies to everyone because life is fair and you want to prove it!

Face it, life isn't fair, and neither is baseball. The Yankees prove it. They spent the highest payroll every season, and since 2000, they don't have a World Series championship. They oughta. I should be tired of having a ticket tape parade every year, but I'm not because other teams keep winning. Meanwhile, in football, where the salary cap is worshiped, the Patriots have a dynasty going, with 3 Super Bowl championships, 4 AFC titles, and 6 division titles this decade and they're about to win another division, but no one bitches about them? It's bullshit.

Please see this from the perspective of the NON-BIG MARKET fan. Why the fuck would they care about baseball? The little league trophy comparison is out of bounds. Major League Baseball needs competition to exist. If a team is not competitive, the fans in that market could lose interest and if this happens in a lot of markets it could put a serious dent in the make-up of the league. I don't know why Yankees fans on this board turn this conversation into: "WHAT THE YANKEES ARE DOING IS FAIR!" That is not the conversatin we are trying to have. The problem we have is that small market teams are losing the ability to compete with big market teams because they cannot keep existing players or acquire new players.

[drjoek]

People love to hate the Yankees like the other teams listed. When they are good it is a bigger target and for all the anomosity people enjoy hating them' you gotta admit that. Just look at the traffic this has caused

[foodcourtdruide]

It means they need to be the enemy. The Cowboys needs to be the Cowboys, the Lakers need to be the Lakers, the Red Wings need to be the Red Wings, and the Yankees need to be the Yankees.

I disagree. This is lore you are creating. The Lakers sucked during my favorite basketball timeperiod.

[foodcourtdruide]

People love to hate the Yankees like the other teams listed. When they are good it is a bigger target and for all the anomosity people enjoy hating them' you gotta admit that. Just look at the traffic this has caused

I'm not here because I enjoy hating the Yankees. My posts have nothing to do with hating the Yankees.

[razorboy]

Who cares. Makes it much more sweeter when the Sox finish first this year

HA! What a hoot! Nothing can be "much more sweeter", by the way.

[epo]

Teams not only get extra revenue from the luxury tax, they also get a nice bump in attendance/ratings when the Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, or any other All Star team comes to their town.

If you wanna know why many mid-to-small market teams hate the Yankees...that statement sums it up greatly.

[The Jays]

Please see this from the perspective of the NON-BIG MARKET fan. Why the fuck would they care about baseball? The little league trophy comparison is out of bounds. Major League Baseball needs competition to exist. If a team is not competitive, the fans in that market could lose interest and if this happens in a lot of markets it could put a serious dent in the make-up of the league. I don't know why Yankees fans on this board turn this conversation into: "WHAT THE YANKEES ARE DOING IS FAIR!" That is not the conversatin we are trying to have. The problem we have is that small market teams are losing the ability to compete with big market teams because they cannot keep existing players or acquire new players.

The Rays are a small market team that went to the fucking world series! I'm sorry that Pittsburgh is run by monkeys who don't give a shit, but give me a break!

[A.J.]

The Rays are a small market team that went to the fucking world series! I'm sorry that Pittsburgh is run by monkeys who don't give a shit, but give me a break!

Sorry Earl.

[razorboy]

I disagree. This is lore you are creating. The Lakers sucked during my favorite basketball timeperiod.

Exactly. Real sports fans, as opposed to homers, enjoy watching good teams. That's why when every baseball analyst was contemplating on air suicide leading up to the World Series this year, I was enjoying watching two great teams in the Rays and the Phillies.

[foodcourtdruide]

The Rays are a small market team that went to the fucking world series! I'm sorry that Pittsburgh is run by monkeys who don't give a shit, but give me a break!

The Rays will not be able to maintain their current success! Once their good players hit free agency they will have to disband their team and rebuild for 5 years to potentially have another 2 or 3 succesful seasons. How could you say the people that run the Pirates don't give a shit? They are in an incredibly difficult situation.

[foodcourtdruide]

Exactly. Real sports fans, as opposed to homers, enjoy watching good teams. That's why when every baseball analyst was contemplating on air suicide leading up to the World Series this year, I was enjoying watching two great teams in the Rays and the Phillies.

Yeah. I don't really get joy out of the Cowboys losing. I really try to focus on the success and failure of my own team.

[epo]

Yeah. I don't really get joy out of the Cowboys losing. I really try to focus on the success and failure of my own team.

Exactly. The league is not about the Yankees, its about MLB. If the other 29 teams cease to be competitive, the Yankees will also suffer greatly as interest for all teams will dwindle.

[KnoxHarrington]

Yeah. I don't really get joy out of the Cowboys losing. I really try to focus on the success and failure of my own team.

Well, here's the thing: it's fun to see the Cowboys fuck up, but, at the same time, there's always hope that your team can win in the NFL. So it's not simply about hating on the "evil empire" in the NFL.

If baseball turns into just seeing if the Yankees fuck up, like I fear it is, it will become just unwatchable.

[razorboy]

If baseball turns into just seeing if the Yankees fuck up, like I fear it is, it will become just unwatchable.

I'll never stop laughing. Oh wait, I have been since 2001.

[cougarjake13]

Since the baseball off-season threads have become a financial drag because of the Yankees' insanity, I thought I'd try to redirect some of that here and keep the baseball threads about hot stove action...rather than who can spend all of the money. So here is a reaction to yesterday's Yankee signing of Mark Teixiera from Bloomberg News:



So here is the question: What does MLB do with this issue?



i think mlb should ask the smaller markets what theyre doing with the money they get from rev sharing first, yeh they might not be able to compete money wise with what the yanks can offer but theres other free agents or homegrown talents that they might be able to retain


if anything maybe a minimum salary cap low should be enforced


i mean a mlb franchise with a 15mil payroll ?? thats worse than what the yanks do

[cougarjake13]

I bet ole dementia ridden George told his sons to sign Winfield and to fire Billy Martin



that gimmick is already being used on here with al davis

[cougarjake13]

The Rays will not be able to maintain their current success! Once their good players hit free agency they will have to disband their team and rebuild for 5 years to potentially have another 2 or 3 succesful seasons. How could you say the people that run the Pirates don't give a shit? They are in an incredibly difficult situation.

the rays already locked up all their good players so no worries there

[patsopinion]

the luxury tax is better than a salary cap in many respects because it is a kind of revenue sharing system which builds some equity for small market teams

baseball is more purely in its capitalism then other sports and i think its good for the sport.
it rewards good fans with better teams, ideally

[epo]

the luxury tax is better than a salary cap in many respects because it is a kind of revenue sharing system which builds some equity for small market teams

baseball is more purely in its capitalism then other sports and i think its good for the sport.
it rewards good fans with better teams, ideally

A soft NBA style cap would be even better.

And don't feed this "rewarding good fans" shit to me.

[underdog]

A soft NBA style cap would be even better.

And don't feed this "rewarding good fans" shit to me.

The NBA style cap is a joke.

The Mavericks signed a retired Keith van Horn for like $10mil, just so they could trade for Kidd. And then he retired again.

[epo]

The NBA style cap is a joke.

The Mavericks signed a retired Keith van Horn for like $10mil, just so they could trade for Kidd. And then he retired again.

Essentially its a luxury tax with a 100% tax. Baseball is a 34% tax that the Yankees piss on.

Maybe Bud needs to raise the tax?

[underdog]

Essentially its a luxury tax with a 100% tax. Baseball is a 34% tax that the Yankees piss on.

Maybe Bud needs to raise the tax?

If its a 100% tax, but the same setup now, I'd be all for it. But the NBA soft salary cap sucks in general.

[KnoxHarrington]

I'd support a raise in the luxury tax if there's a minimum percentage of that money that's required to go towards player salaries. Too often it just goes in the pockets of some cheap-ass owner (I'm looking at you, Twins and Royals).

[sailor]

Essentially its a luxury tax with a 100% tax. Baseball is a 34% tax that the Yankees piss on.

Maybe Bud needs to raise the tax?

throw out the good with the bad? don't forget, their construction expense nullifies their lux tax for a while.

[FezsAssistant]

the system isn't broken. nothing to fix.
maybe get some owners that want to win instead of lining their own pockets and screwing the fans.

[FezsAssistant]

The Brewers spent almost double what the Rays spent in 2008 (80 something vs 40 something). I think this conversation is over.

[TripleSkeet]

The Yankees are an example of everything thats wrong with baseball. "Oh, we cant develop players good enough to win, so we'll just buy all the players these smaller market clubs make."

Fuck that. America doesnt need the Yankees to be good every year. They need all teams to be competitive. They should all start on a fair playing field. This way if a team doesnt win, they cant blame the market for not making enough money.

Dont say a hard cap doesnt work or cant be implemented. The NFL has it, and that league does so well it fucking laughs at the MLB.

Theres 2 things that could happen this season that would make this my favorite year ever:

1. Yankee Stadium gets struck by 300 lightning bolts on opening night completely destroying it.

2. The Phillies beat the Yankees in the World Series.

[patsopinion]

throw out the good with the bad? don't forget, their construction expense nullifies their lux tax for a while.

agreed but

if it didnt go to the owners/org then how would the really fucktard awful teams in the nl east be able to survive (nats, marlins)

[foodcourtdruide]

I love how though a dozen teams have had a few terrible seasons because they cannot financially compete you guys bring up the Rays and act like it ends the conversation. It's so intellectually dishonest. There is an uneven playing field, and just because one team has managed to mangle a successful season out of it does not mean there isn't a problem with baseball.

It's possible for small market teams to compete, but it is infinitely harder for them than big market teams. There is currently an extremely uneven playing field and it's hurting baseball and those small market cities are going to stop giving a fuck about the sport. It's already happening. Why do you think it's hard for the Rays to draw even when they have a World Series team? Do you think Rays fans don't know that in a few years they'll be back in the shitter of the AL East? Do you think Pirates fans don't know that their premier players are just developing with their team so they can sign a big contract else where?

And how much money do you think these teams get from a luxury tax? The Yankees dished out like $27 million this year. How many teams split that? It's like 10 teams, isn't it? So $2.7 million each? HEY, WHY CAN'T THE KANSAS CITY ROYALS COMPETE! THE YANKEES GAVE THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO GET JUAN PIERRE FOR HALF A SEASON!

[sailor]

The Yankees are an example of everything thats wrong with baseball. "Oh, we cant develop players good enough to win, so we'll just buy all the players these smaller market clubs make."

Fuck that. America doesnt need the Yankees to be good every year. They need all teams to be competitive. They should all start on a fair playing field. This way if a team doesnt win, they cant blame the market for not making enough money.

Dont say a hard cap doesnt work or cant be implemented. The NFL has it, and that league does so well it fucking laughs at the MLB.

Theres 2 things that could happen this season that would make this my favorite year ever:

1. Yankee Stadium gets struck by 300 lightning bolts on opening night completely destroying it.

2. The Phillies beat the Yankees in the World Series.

so, you're a phillies fan, but can't just enjoy your success? typical.

[eastphillyTed]

so, you're a phillies fan, but can't just enjoy your success? typical.

what is that supposed to mean? typical new yorker.

[sailor]

what is that supposed to mean? typical new yorker.

your sports fans embrace a culture of negativity and self-loathing. enjoy the good times for two months at least.

[PD]

there will never be a salary cap unless suddenly baseball (as a whole) loses millions of dollars.

remember, the rational for the cap was economic survival; baseball is booming.
what they need to do is refine the existing system. Maybe increase the luxury tax somewhat, or, again, change the compensation for signing type A free agents.

Money doesn't guarantee winning, but it does allow you to bury mistakes.

and for everyone who mentions that this year the Yankee payroll goes down, don't forget those 3 are 5+ yrs (unless cc opts out)

[brettmojo]

They should leave the issue alone.

Obviously, payroll doesn't buy championships, and it doesn't even buy you the playoffs. So who cares if a team overpays for someone? If a team has money, why shouldn't they spend it? Teams not only get extra revenue from the luxury tax, they also get a nice bump in attendance/ratings when the Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, or any other All Star team comes to their town. If a team has a shitty owner who doesn't give a shit about getting anywhere, why should he be rewarded by punishing teams that give a shit, and happen to be from places where baseball was born?

The Rays won the AL and made it to the Series through homegrown talent and good scouting. The Yanks have always been buying other people's players and it's never done them good. So what, Red Sox didn't get Mark Teixiera, so now everyone needs to bitch about how much the Yankees need to be punished? It's bullshit, I didn't see anyone complaining when the Red Sox spent like 56 million just to talk to Daisuke.


And what exactly is so "wrong" with this system. In the last 8 years the Marlins,Phils,Sox,Sox,Cards,Dbacks etc have won. Most of the teams have become competitive as the Rays and Brewers an example. Nothing here has changed. The Yankees did the same thing in the 50s. Move out of the sticks fellas.

These two previous posts should have ended the thread.

You're just saying that because you're in a big market.

You're just saying that because you're in a small market.

The Rays and Brewers became competitive but it will be much much much harder for those teams to maintain their competitive level than big market teams. The system is fucked because a group of teams have a disadvantage based on financial reasons. The disadvantage seems to be growing every year and those teams and their fans keep getting more and more disenfranchised.

These teams that are in larger markets SHOULD have an advantage financially. That's where the concept of "small market/large market" comes in. They're in a better economic situation. More fans, more resources equal better chance to win. If owners can't afford to run a major league franchise then they shouldn't be. Why should the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Red Sox or Cubs have to lower themselves to the level of teams like the Marlins or Pirates who have owners who do not have the capability to run their own franchises in a competitive or responsible manner? If you have to choose between something like building a new stadium or having a competitive team then you have no business being an owner of a professional sports franchise. There's such a thing called baseball knowledge which is something the people in charge of a baseball team should have. Obviously the Pirates don't have that and the Rays do.

If you wanna know why many mid-to-small market teams hate the Yankees...that statement sums it up greatly.

Why? It's pretty accurate.

The Rays will not be able to maintain their current success! Once their good players hit free agency they will have to disband their team and rebuild for 5 years to potentially have another 2 or 3 succesful seasons. How could you say the people that run the Pirates don't give a shit? They are in an incredibly difficult situation.

Of their own creation...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07171/795567-194.stm

I love how though a dozen teams have had a few terrible seasons because they cannot financially compete you guys bring up the Rays and act like it ends the conversation. It's so intellectually dishonest. There is an uneven playing field, and just because one team has managed to mangle a successful season out of it does not mean there isn't a problem with baseball.

Actually it does. But I guess the way you're talking the Yankees have won the last 7 world series before last season's. Oh wait, they didn't.

It's not as simple as spending money.

Let me say that again.

It's... Not... As... Simple... As... Spending... Money.

You really should take a look at the Rays, because the Rays show exactly the right way to compete, which isn't all that hard if you have quality people in charge of your baseball team, when you don't have the financial resources of a big market team.

You see you bitch because you don't want you're team to be noncompetitive for 5-6 years while they build themselves a winning group of players. But that's how baseball works. The Yankees were shit in the 80's, early 90's, in the early 70's, late 60's. But after those stretches they built teams that won. You don't want your team to have to do the dirty work to compete and be successful. You want a hand out, pure and simple. You want to punish the other teams in baseball like the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Cubs, Dodgers etc. any team that has actually done the dirty work and or is successful because your ownership is shit and isn't capable of putting together a franchise that can win or even compete.

It's possible for small market teams to compete, but it is infinitely harder for them than big market teams. There is currently an extremely uneven playing field and it's hurting baseball and those small market cities are going to stop giving a fuck about the sport. It's already happening. Why do you think it's hard for the Rays to draw even when they have a World Series team? Do you think Rays fans don't know that in a few years they'll be back in the shitter of the AL East? Do you think Pirates fans don't know that their premier players are just developing with their team so they can sign a big contract else where?

The Rays can't draw a crowd because Tropicana Field is shit and no one wants to watch a baseball game in a shitty dome in the middle of the summer in Tampa.

And if any fan thinks of their team like the way you've described then they're not a fan. No one thinks of their team, the Rays especially, like you said. There's no reason the Rays can't make it back to the post season this year. They've got the same group of guys together. If a Rays fan thinks like that then they should throw out the fucking Ray's hat they're wearing that they bought from lids back in September. You take the good with the bad and when you're team is bad you let them know it. That's the problem I have with Cubs fans. They sit and take it and don't demand better.

And how much money do you think these teams get from a luxury tax? The Yankees dished out like $27 million this year. How many teams split that? It's like 10 teams, isn't it? So $2.7 million each? HEY, WHY CAN'T THE KANSAS CITY ROYALS COMPETE! THE YANKEES GAVE THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO GET JUAN PIERRE FOR HALF A SEASON!

The Royals shouldn't be signing Juan Pierre in the first place.

Again, you want hand outs when you don't deserve them! The analogy someone made about giving everyone on the little league team a trophy is a really right on example of your thinking. If your team doesn't try to win it doesn't deserve to win. How can anyone think that the Pirates even try at this point? THEY SIGNED A BUNCH OF INDIAN CRICKET PLAYING REALITY SHOW CONTESTANTS!!!!! Or whatever they were. There's basically a whole planet now to scout and sign talent from and that's what they're doing?

so, you're a phillies fan, but can't just enjoy your success? typical.
Exactly. Philly/Boston has become interchangable.

[brettmojo]

there will never be a salary cap unless suddenly baseball (as a whole) loses millions of dollars.

remember, the rational for the cap was economic survival; baseball is booming.
what they need to do is refine the existing system. Maybe increase the luxury tax somewhat, or, again, change the compensation for signing type A free agents.

Money doesn't guarantee winning, but it does allow you to bury mistakes.

and for everyone who mentions that this year the Yankee payroll goes down, don't forget those 3 are 5+ yrs (unless cc opts out)
Yeah but we have guys coming off the books next season as well.

[SP1!]

You can't hit a home run if you try to hit a homerun.
The Yanks are trying way too hard

I will gladly take the field vs. the yankees to win the world series.

Yeah me too.

But its crazy to think they wont have a salary cap soon, probably with another strike. The players union will scream about it but eventually they will have to give in since if they dont some small market teams will fold and they will lose 50 or so union members, not to mention all those in the minor leagues.

The yankees have no one to blame but themselves.

It will be nice to see them miss the playoffs after spending all that money.

[brettmojo]

Yeah me too.

But its crazy to think they wont have a salary cap soon, probably with another strike. The players union will scream about it but eventually they will have to give in since if they dont some small market teams will fold and they will lose 50 or so union members, not to mention all those in the minor leagues.

The yankees have no one to blame but themselves.

It will be nice to see them miss the playoffs after spending all that money.
No small market teams will fold.

Teams don't fold in professional sports, they relocate and or they change ownership. Teams don't fold/relocate because they don't make the playoffs, they relocate when they are hemorrhaging cash. I think I missed it when the Cubs folded because they haven't won a World Series since forever. The Red Sox didn't fold in 86 years of mediocrity. Everyone calling for a salary cap are acting like a bunch of retards. All of the sudden the baseball world is coming to an end because the New York Yankees have done exactly what they've been doing for 10 years. This pity party for poorly run small market teams is foolhardy and annoying.

[epo]

The system is clearly fucked up and needs to be changed. I can't state it better than Brewers GM Doug Melvin about the free agent compensation after the Yankees signed Teixiera, Sabathia & Burnett:

"The Angels had a better record than us and the Blue Jays, and the Brewers and the Blue Jays got shoved down the food chain. The Elias rankings have never been changed, and there are so many smart statistical gurus -- Bill James, etc. -- that could create a fair model for both players and teams, who should be compensated fairly according to the value of each player to that team. Last year, Geoff Jenkins, who had a nice career with us and was arguably one of our better players, was not even ranked last year, and Tony Graffanino, a part-time player, was ranked. We have dropped 46 slots in the 2009 draft, and we will be dropping even more because there are so many compensation picks. The second round will be almost the third round, in the way that it will develop."

"The Yankees will lose some draft picks, but they can draft unsignable players in fourth and fifth rounds, and pay over-slot, as they did with Andrew Brackman (the Yankees' No. 1 pick in 2007).

"The Draft Elias rankings and compensation needs to be changed. I do not want to sound like I'm whining, but teams who have to build with draft picks get frustrated. I had interest in Juan Cruz, and because I thought we had extra first-round picks for CC and for Ben Sheets, I had considered a Type A signing. Now I have to reconsider."

"We will keep having fun with scouting and player development, and finding our role players. Brian [Cashman] has to do what his owners and market asks him to do."

So realistically if small market teams are supposed to compete they need the compensation system to be fair. They lose CC Sabathia and won't even get a first-rounder for him. And if they did make a move for a guy like Juan Fucking Cruz, they would lose their own pick. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

[andy from A.V]

there should be one but make it like 140 mil so u can still have some room to do things. the yanks r out of control god forbid u devolop people p.s ( CC sux agianst the red sox, LOLOLLLOL):clap:

[TripleSkeet]

First of all, Philly is enjoying the success of this season. Moreso then New York ever could and ever has. Youll see that when we show up at the "New Shea" this year with Phillies flags and championship belts. This doesnt even affect me as a Phillies fan, it disgusts me as a baseball fan.

Second of all, only a fucking typical douchebag New York fan would say something as stupid as "Large market teams SHOULD be able to have a greater advantage to a small market team. They have more fans, so they should be able to spend more money to make their teams better then the small market teams"

Its stupid fucking thinking like that thats the reason New York alone has 7 major league teams in 4 sports. Oh? Your basketball team sucks dick? Dont worry, you can just take one from New Jersey and try to double your chances at getting a winner like you do in every other sport.

Every other league has a hard cap. All the teams start at zero and have a predetermined amount they can spend to try and win a championship. Titles are supposed be won by how much talent you have and how smart you are at aquiring it. Not by who can spend the most money. Problem is most Yankees fans are so used to being able to just throw cash at the problem that they have this sense of entitlement like they are owed a better shot at winning a World Series then every other city just because they are New York.

When baseball wakes up and catches up with the other pro leagues and puts in a hard cap its gonna be great to see just how brilliant the "geniuses" in the Yankees organization are when they have to compete on the same field as everybody else.

[brettmojo]

First of all, Philly is enjoying the success of this season. Moreso then New York ever could and ever has. Youll see that when we show up at the "New Shea" this year with Phillies flags and championship belts. This doesnt even affect me as a Phillies fan, it disgusts me as a baseball fan.

Second of all, only a fucking typical douchebag New York fan would say something as stupid as "Large market teams SHOULD be able to have a greater advantage to a small market team. They have more fans, so they should be able to spend more money to make their teams better then the small market teams"

Its stupid fucking thinking like that thats the reason New York alone has 7 major league teams in 4 sports. Oh? Your basketball team sucks dick? Dont worry, you can just take one from New Jersey and try to double your chances at getting a winner like you do in every other sport.

Every other league has a hard cap. All the teams start at zero and have a predetermined amount they can spend to try and win a championship. Titles are supposed be won by how much talent you have and how smart you are at aquiring it. Not by who can spend the most money. Problem is most Yankees fans are so used to being able to just throw cash at the problem that they have this sense of entitlement like they are owed a better shot at winning a World Series then every other city just because they are New York.

When baseball wakes up and catches up with the other pro leagues and puts in a hard cap its gonna be great to see just how brilliant the "geniuses" in the Yankees organization are when they have to compete on the same field as everybody else.
The compensation system needs to be changed. That I agree with. Teams shouldn't be screwed out of draft picks and should be compensated when one of their top players leave in free agency. But that's not New York's problem the free agency system isn't perfected and has some serious flaws. That's Bud Selig and MLB's fault. It's not the fucking Yankees fault for doing business the way the system allows them to. To single them out for it is bullshit. The issue isn't the need for a salary cap, the issue is the need for an overhaul of the free agency compensation system. Whether or not teams will have to give up their future #1's in a different draft or if once protected picks need to be given up... Whatever. That's what needs to be addressed. Spending money doesn't fucking buy championships, it hasn't in 8 fucking years. It doesn't make it impossible for the teams that don't spend to compete either. The Oakland A's have shown that, the Rays have shown that, the Indians have shown that, the Brewers have shown that, etc. etc. etc. Shitty ownership makes it impossible for teams to compete.

Why is it bullshit to say big market teams should have an advantage? They do. I'm not saying they should BE GIVEN an advantage, but that naturally have one having greater resources at their disposal than a small market team. Don't put words in my fucking mouth. Everyone suddenly wants to socialize the game that's been operating in more or less the same way for a hundred years... What higher field do the Yankees play on? Did I miss them winning some other World Series that was played on a different field that the one I and the rest of America outside of Philiadelphia was bored to death with a couple months ago? Or did I see them play on the same field with all those other so called "less fortunate" teams for 6 months last season only to not make the post season for the 1st time in 13 years? OH oh... You mean financially? Because the Yankees should have to pocket the millions upon millions of dollars they make annually and being a franchise valued at over a billion dollars they should have to be forced to compete at a level that the Florida Marlins, who are lucky to have a daily attendance in the 5 digits, can compete on.

And we all know that spending money means winning in baseball.

And only a fucking typical douchebag Philliadelphia fan would think showing up at an opposing baseball park with a championship belt on would make the Met's fans envious.

I bet they'll all spin too.

[sailor]

so, the yankees are the ones standing in the way of a hard cap and not the players' union?

[lleeder]

You can't hit a home run if you try to hit a homerun.

Small market sour grapes.

Move out of the sticks fellas.

Because the system is as American as apple pie?

I like all the bad cliches the begining of this thread has in it.

[SP1!]

No small market teams will fold.

Teams don't fold in professional sports, they relocate and or they change ownership. Teams don't fold/relocate because they don't make the playoffs, they relocate when they are hemorrhaging cash. I think I missed it when the Cubs folded because they haven't won a World Series since forever. The Red Sox didn't fold in 86 years of mediocrity. Everyone calling for a salary cap are acting like a bunch of retards. All of the sudden the baseball world is coming to an end because the New York Yankees have done exactly what they've been doing for 10 years. This pity party for poorly run small market teams is foolhardy and annoying.

I think you missed the mark when you called chicago a small market team, which is what I was talking about, out side of big cities the teams are struggling to survive, Im shocked the royals still exist.

Yeah thats just what baseball needs a bunch of teams centered around all the major cities, that should go over well. I dont expect florida to last much longer or tampa with those small crowds if they arent winning, to think that your team doesnt have much of a chance because of all the good players you develop going to bigger markets and your team getting no compensation is killing the fan base. I expect a cap like the NBA has pretty soon, where you can do sign and trades but the other teams get something for their developed players.

[sailor]

So realistically if small market teams are supposed to compete they need the compensation system to be fair. They lose CC Sabathia and won't even get a first-rounder for him. And if they did make a move for a guy like Juan Fucking Cruz, they would lose their own pick. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

teams losing picks would only hurt the player, not the team. the loss of pick would be factored into any deal and the price would drop, if teams had good business sense. i don't think the players' union would go for something like that.

[TripleSkeet]

Why is it bullshit to say big market teams should have an advantage? They do. I'm not saying they should BE GIVEN an advantage, but that naturally have one having greater resources at their disposal than a small market team. Don't put words in my fucking mouth. Everyone suddenly wants to socialize the game that's been operating in more or less the same way for a hundred years... What higher field do the Yankees play on? Did I miss them winning some other World Series that was played on a different field that the one I and the rest of America outside of Philiadelphia was bored to death with a couple months ago? Or did I see them play on the same field with all those other so called "less fortunate" teams for 6 months last season only to not make the post season for the 1st time in 13 years? OH oh... You mean financially? Because the Yankees should have to pocket the millions upon millions of dollars they make annually and being a franchise valued at over a billion dollars they should have to be forced to compete at a level that the Florida Marlins, who are lucky to have a daily attendance in the 5 digits, can compete on.

And we all know that spending money means winning in baseball.

And only a fucking typical douchebag Philliadelphia fan would think showing up at an opposing baseball park with a championship belt on would make the Met's fans envious.



Got nothing to do with making Mets fans envious, just about rubbing their nose in it a little bit. I mean, the whole country knew we were jerk offs when our teams werent winning, gotta give a little extra when you get a title.

Now see heres what Im saying with the salary cap issue. Obviously you cant bring all the big money teams down to the financial obscuirty that a Marlins team has. And nobody is gonna spend the money that the Yankees can, so what you need to do is find a median. This solves 2 problems.

1. It give every team a fair chance to sign the same players. Im sorry but every time a bigtime player is about to come up for free agency, its fucking bullshit when I hear "Well it looks like the Yankees are one of the only teams that can afford him." There should be a maximum and a minimum for every teams cap. If the team chooses not to spend the money, they cant blame anything but their own cheapness.

2. Smaller clubs that dont produce financially will just have to dry up and fold. The whole Tampa story was great last year. But the fact that I couldve gotten tickets to Game 2 of the World Series the day before at face value shows me they really dont deserve to have a baseball team.

And no, being in a larger market shouldnt give you any more of an advantage on the field as any other team. Sorry but nothing you can say will change my mind on that.

[TheMojoPin]

Fuck.

No.

Any of these teams crying over the big spenders can go jump off a cliff. THEY HAVE MONEY. THEY CHOOSE NOT TO SPEND IT. Do they have as much to spend as the Yanks or Red Sox or Cubs etc.? No, of course not, but I'm sick of this pissing and moaning like they have NO money to spend and can't possibly offer competitive offers. That's bullshit. No, they can't sign as many big FA's, but they can put forward the money to snag 1 or 2 if they really wanted to instead of halfassing it to make the safe profits.

[goreds2]

The owners would have to lock out for one maybe two seasons. In other words, it AIN'T gonna happen.

[SP1!]

Fuck.

No.

Any of these teams crying over the big spenders can go jump off a cliff. THEY HAVE MONEY. THEY CHOOSE NOT TO SPEND IT. Do they have as much to spend as the Yanks or Red Sox or Cubs etc.? No, of course not, but I'm sick of this pissing and moaning like they have NO money to spend and can't possibly offer competitive offers. That's bullshit. No, they can't sign as many big FA's, but they can put forward the money to snag 1 or 2 if they really wanted to instead of halfassing it to make the safe profits.

No they dont, NY makes a lot of money just because its NY, its why they can charge more for their local TV rights and the visiting teams share doesnt go up. They make more money just because its NY, just like LA or chicago, the city sells worldwide not the team. People arent running out to buy the new houston astros gear or the rays gear so thats more money just because of their city.

But without all those other teams there would be no product, if they keep hurting these small market teams they will be in danger of losing their anti-trust exemption which they would have a hard time fighting since they couldnt buy senators where they dont have teams or have teams struggling. Sorry that most of those that root for teams in major markets refuse to see it but its a reality, the small markets are not making money like bigger cities.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I'm starting to think a salary cap and salary floor wouldn't be a bad idea. I agree that the Yankees should be allowed to spend as much as they want. They aren't spending because it makes them a better team, they are spending a ton to mask the AWFUL decisions they have made continually this century. It's not going to change, and I relish in them failing with a 200 mil plus payroll. The problem really is that teams refuse to put money back into their teams. We need a floor first before there is a cap.
You can't spend 75 million on payroll, you need to find new ownership. Collect revenue in the league, spread it around (And mandate it's used as payroll, stadium maint., scouting, farm system, whatever, just not going into corporate pockets.)
Only 1 team has won with a payroll over 100 million.

What constitutes a big market club? We going by tv audience, or population?

[TheMojoPin]

No they dont, NY makes a lot of money just because its NY, its why they can charge more for their local TV rights and the visiting teams share doesnt go up. They make more money just because its NY, just like LA or chicago, the city sells worldwide not the team. People arent running out to buy the new houston astros gear or the rays gear so thats more money just because of their city.

But without all those other teams there would be no product, if they keep hurting these small market teams they will be in danger of losing their anti-trust exemption which they would have a hard time fighting since they couldnt buy senators where they dont have teams or have teams struggling. Sorry that most of those that root for teams in major markets refuse to see it but its a reality, the small markets are not making money like bigger cities.

Of course they aren't. I didn't say they had the same resources as teams like the Yankees or the Cubs, but the flipside of people talking like they're in the poor house is absurd. A team like the Pirates could drastically inflate its payroll and put a more competitive team out there with the old money owners behind them...but the owners choose not to. It's not like these are idealisitc guys off the street who bought these teams...it's big money people who have the money to spend. If they don't, they should get out and sell the team to somebody who does. As long as a bunch of owners and guys like Selig fight having someone like Cuban buy teams they have no room to complain. Cuban has gone on record about how he would love to buy the Pirates, yet the owners refuse to sell and Selig hates the idea of owning a team. Fuck them.

[zildjian361]

Salary cap we don't need no stinkin Salary cap.::tongue: Snoogans is my dude:wink:

[SP1!]

I'm starting to think a salary cap and salary floor wouldn't be a bad idea. I agree that the Yankees should be allowed to spend as much as they want. They aren't spending because it makes them a better team, they are spending a ton to mask the AWFUL decisions they have made continually this century. It's not going to change, and I relish in them failing with a 200 mil plus payroll. The problem really is that teams refuse to put money back into their teams. We need a floor first before there is a cap.
You can't spend 75 million on payroll, you need to find new ownership. Collect revenue in the league, spread it around (And mandate it's used as payroll, stadium maint., scouting, farm system, whatever, just not going into corporate pockets.)
Only 1 team has won with a payroll over 100 million.

What constitutes a big market club? We going by tv audience, or population?

Yeah I think the limit could be in the $120-$140 range, could every team afford that? No, but if they use something like the NBA does then they will at least get value for the talent they developed and brought up and teams like the yankees/mets cant cover horribly bad drafting decisions by throwing money at them. I also agree that you should put a clause in that a certain amount must be used for payroll, as it stands now a lot of money goes in big markets pockets with little or no money being shared with small market teams that allow them to put a product on the field, without them the game would be even more fractured by having tons of teams near the major markets.

I think big market would constitute the major population centers, NY, boston, chicago, LA, then you have middle market teams like atlanta, st louis, houston, san fran, san diego and possibly seattle, after that is everyone else with a limited amount of fan base or money from local TV contracts and merchandise sales. Atlanta could almost be moved up because for the longest time they were the only team in the south and get TV money from almost every state since people still want their games on locally. I still wish they would have moved the stadium outside the perimeter when they had the chance, it kills people going to the game since more people live outside the perimeter than inside the shithole that is atlanta.

Of course they aren't. I didn't say they had the same resources as teams like the Yankees or the Cubs, but the flipside of people talking like they're in the poor house is absurd. A team like the Pirates could drastically inflate its payroll and put a more competitive team out there with the old money owners behind them...but the owners choose not to. It's not like these are idealisitc guys off the street who bought these teams...it's big money people who have the money to spend. If they don't, they should get out and sell the team to somebody who does. As long as a bunch of owners and guys like Selig fight having someone like Cuban buy teams they have no room to complain. Cuban has gone on record about how he would love to buy the Pirates, yet the owners refuse to sell and Selig hates the idea of owning a team. Fuck them.

Poor house? No, but to say that they can be competitive long term is absurd since all their talent they developed is bought when they are eligible for FA, you cant actually think that is fair. Its like you training an employee who had a raw understanding of your product then you showing him how to make millions, then all of sudden a larger corporation comes in and steals him. In the real world there are repercussions in baseballs world people call it doing business.

And I thought cuban wanted to buy the cubs but the owners refused to sell to him? I havent heard anything about him wanting to own the pirates, but most baseball owners dont like people owning multiple sports teams, they think people would funnel money made in one to the other its why they didnt like huzienga owning the dolphins and the marlins.

[sailor]

Its like you training an employee who had a raw understanding of your product then you showing him how to make millions, then all of sudden a larger corporation comes in and steals him. In the real world there are repercussions in baseballs world people call it doing business.

that's the silliest thing i've read in a while. in the real world there is absolutely nothing to prevent me from moving from one job to another at any point i want.

[cougarjake13]

.

And I thought cuban wanted to buy the cubs but the owners refused to sell to him? I havent heard anything about him wanting to own the pirates, but most baseball owners dont like people owning multiple sports teams, they think people would funnel money made in one to the other its why they didnt like huzienga owning the dolphins and the marlins.

he's only recently gone after the cubs, after being turned down by the pitt owners and the cubs were put up for sale


originally he was going for the pirates, bout a year or 2 ago

[brettmojo]

Yeah, why would Selig want to bring in an owner like Cuban? A guy who is charismatic and wants to win.

Imagine the lobs he and the Steinbrenners could fling at each other.

[IMSlacker]

The players who didn't go to college shouldn't be allowed to make more than the players who attended college.

[SP1!]

that's the silliest thing i've read in a while. in the real world there is absolutely nothing to prevent me from moving from one job to another at any point i want.

No but there is usually a non compete clause when you make tons of money, meaning you cant take info and use at another competitors unless ok'd by current employers. I cant go work for anyone that I have done work for and I cant go work for one of our competitors then have contact with anyone of the people who I did work for, if that was the same in baseball they could never play against a team they played against before.

There is a loss here by the lower income teams that never gets accounted for, yeah they have some money but to say they can keep an A rod after bringing them along and teaching how to read all the opponents in the league after he gets offered a quarter of a million is crazy. Some teams can afford one or two superstars max, teams like the yankees and other big markets buy numerous superstars, its a stupid strategy but they seem to think it works. Whats ironic is after their recent purchase they still have quite a few holes in their pitching staff and now they arent resigning petite which is crazy, it will be fun watching them lose games 10-9.

[sailor]

no-competes are very rare, from my experience. also, in the real world there are no drafts or trades, so making the comparison at a base level just doesn't work.

[SP1!]

no-competes are very rare, from my experience. also, in the real world there are no drafts or trades, so making the comparison at a base level just doesn't work.

Rare? What field are you in? Trash pick up or warehouse work? Any slightly professional work has non compete clauses built into them when you take a job.

And it wasnt a direct comparison, it was an example, point remaining that the teams developing the talent get no compensation for bringing drafted talent along, expect that to change in the next few years.

[TheMojoPin]

And I thought cuban wanted to buy the cubs but the owners refused to sell to him? I havent heard anything about him wanting to own the pirates, but most baseball owners dont like people owning multiple sports teams, they think people would funnel money made in one to the other its why they didnt like huzienga owning the dolphins and the marlins.

Cuban's team growing up was the Pirates (he's from the area) and that's the team he's always said he wants to buy them but the owners have no desire to sell the team to anyone. He still wants to own a baseball team, period, hence his interest in the Cubs when they went on sale, but he's out now.

[TripleSkeet]

Everyone knows most owners arent spending the money they really could afford to bring in some free agents. But lets get serious, 90% of the teams in baseball couldnt compete with the Yankees in spending and actually turn a profit. In the end that still has to be done, no matter what.

Dont get me wrong, when you say "Fuck No!" to a hard salary cap and floor I understand youre doing it because of course your favorite team is the one that can afford to outspend everybody else. Before hockeys salary cap I was thrilled to be a fan of the Flyers who even though they hadnt won a cup in ages, still spent more then most teams trying their hardest to get that trophy. The difference is I KNEW it wasnt fair to teams that couldnt afford to be in a bidding war with them, but they were my team, so I didnt care. Say whatever you want thats the same thing you are doing.

I have faith that eventually this will get so out of hand the owners will have no choice but to implement a salary cap. Whether its because alot of teams keep losing out on free agents because they are outbid or because the big shots are driving up the price on everyone else, either way they will eventually have to do something. Im sure the players union will fight it and they will lose. Its happened in every other sport, its just a matter of time.

[TheGameHHH]

respond to this, but it isnt me.....'Those who think baseball needs a salary cap aren’t paying attention. There have been seven different champions in the last eight seasons and since 2001, 23 teams have appeared in the playoffs at least once. Money has less to do with success then smart management and good health.'

[underdog]

Rare? What field are you in? Trash pick up or warehouse work? Any slightly professional work has non compete clauses built into them when you take a job.

It is amazing how you manage to type dumber and dumber things every time you post.

I have several friends (you'll be happy to know they all graduated college, so they deserve to make money) in the pharmaceutical field who actually help create drugs, and they don't even have non-compete clauses. Non-compete clauses are so amazingly rare in the real world.

[underdog]

respond to this, but it isnt me.....'Those who think baseball needs a salary cap aren’t paying attention. There have been seven different champions in the last eight seasons and since 2001, 23 teams have appeared in the playoffs at least once. Money has less to do with success then smart management and good health.'

Every post I've made in this thread and in the MLB thread about how the Yankees aren't doing anything new has been ignored.

The Yankees have been doing this forever and haven't won a WS since 2000. They didn't even make the fucking playoffs last year. That HUGE market team, The Tampa Bay Devil Rays, won the AL East.

Every year, people are yelling about how awful it is that the Yankees are spending so much money and that they are ruining baseball. Then they don't win the WS.

The Yankees are the Washington Redskins of Major League Baseball. They win the offseason every year.

[sailor]

Rare? What field are you in? Trash pick up or warehouse work? Any slightly professional work has non compete clauses built into them when you take a job.

And it wasnt a direct comparison, it was an example, point remaining that the teams developing the talent get no compensation for bringing drafted talent along, expect that to change in the next few years.

accounting, but this isn't aboot me. and you say that like trash pick-up or warehouse work is to be looked down upon, you elitist prick.

[cougarjake13]

Yeah, why would Selig want to bring in an owner like Cuban? A guy who is charismatic and wants to win.

Imagine the lobs he and the Steinbrenners could fling at each other.

it would have been great

[cougarjake13]

No but there is usually a non compete clause when you make tons of money, meaning you cant take info and use at another competitors unless ok'd by current employers. I cant go work for anyone that I have done work for and I cant go work for one of our competitors then have contact with anyone of the people who I did work for, if that was the same in baseball they could never play against a team they played against before.

There is a loss here by the lower income teams that never gets accounted for, yeah they have some money but to say they can keep an A rod after bringing them along and teaching how to read all the opponents in the league after he gets offered a quarter of a million is crazy. Some teams can afford one or two superstars max, teams like the yankees and other big markets buy numerous superstars, its a stupid strategy but they seem to think it works. Whats ironic is after their recent purchase they still have quite a few holes in their pitching staff and now they arent resigning petite which is crazy, it will be fun watching them lose games 10-9.


with interleague play everybody plays everybody

theres no way they could do that

no one would ever be allowed to leave

[sailor]

with interleague play everybody plays everybody

theres no way they could do that

no one would ever be allowed to leave

it would be the 1920s all over again.

[cougarjake13]

Rare? What field are you in? Trash pick up or warehouse work? Any slightly professional work has non compete clauses built into them when you take a job.

And it wasnt a direct comparison, it was an example, point remaining that the teams developing the talent get no compensation for bringing drafted talent along, expect that to change in the next few years.

yeh i have a 2 year no compete clause meaning i cant leave my current company and go to another that does the same work in the county i currently work in

i can go to another company doing the same work in the surrounding counties if i wanted to but that would require further drive time or moving there

[SP1!]

Everyone knows most owners arent spending the money they really could afford to bring in some free agents. But lets get serious, 90% of the teams in baseball couldnt compete with the Yankees in spending and actually turn a profit. In the end that still has to be done, no matter what.

Dont get me wrong, when you say "Fuck No!" to a hard salary cap and floor I understand youre doing it because of course your favorite team is the one that can afford to outspend everybody else. Before hockeys salary cap I was thrilled to be a fan of the Flyers who even though they hadnt won a cup in ages, still spent more then most teams trying their hardest to get that trophy. The difference is I KNEW it wasnt fair to teams that couldnt afford to be in a bidding war with them, but they were my team, so I didnt care. Say whatever you want thats the same thing you are doing.

I have faith that eventually this will get so out of hand the owners will have no choice but to implement a salary cap. Whether its because alot of teams keep losing out on free agents because they are outbid or because the big shots are driving up the price on everyone else, either way they will eventually have to do something. Im sure the players union will fight it and they will lose. Its happened in every other sport, its just a matter of time.

Thats what I have been saying but people attack me, mainly because I refuse to acquiesce to their politically correct line of thinking that big business is just plain evil.

It is amazing how you manage to type dumber and dumber things every time you post.

I have several friends (you'll be happy to know they all graduated college, so they deserve to make money) in the pharmaceutical field who actually help create drugs, and they don't even have non-compete clauses. Non-compete clauses are so amazingly rare in the real world.

Yeah, either you really believe that or they havent read what they signed completely, you really believe they could go from working for someone like Glaxo Smith Kline to working for Pfizer and they wouldnt be sued to hell and back? That is the most gullible thing I have ever read in a post, you cant take your research and knowledge away from a company to a competitor and not have any blowback.

Read the forms you actually sign and you would be surprised what legal claims they hold to your work.

accounting, but this isn't aboot me. and you say that like trash pick-up or warehouse work is to be looked down upon, you elitist prick.

Blah blah blah, elist. Yeah thats the point, bash someone because you dont agree that some lines of work arent as skilled as others.

For all of you morons calling me an elitist, do you realize how fucking stupid you are? I busted my ass doing those menial type jobs to help pay for shit while going to school and learning other skills, I dont think it makes me a better person than those that still are stuck in those lines of work but to say there isnt a line of distinction just shows complete idiocy. Same with companies who develop skills or provide resources to their employees but again most of you refuse to see that fact.

[TheMojoPin]

Thats what I have been saying but people attack me, mainly because I refuse to acquiesce to their politically correct line of thinking that big business is just plain evil.

...

What?

[sailor]

Blah blah blah, elist. Yeah thats the point, bash someone because you dont agree that some lines of work arent as skilled as others.

other people bash you and call you elitist? and i independently came to the same conclusion because you were slamming other occupations? sounds like the problem rests inside you, young grasshopper.

[The Jays]

What is all this shit about fairness?? Life isn't fair! You know what else isn't fair? Capitalism! It would be more fair if it were communism or socialism.


Remember last year the Rockies went to the World Series! Before that we had a Detroit-St. Louis World Series! The year before that we had a Chicago-Houston series! You have to be shitting me when you tell me that the Yankees are ruining baseball when you have teams like Tampa Bay, Colorado, St. Louis, and Houston going to the World Series.

[Gvac]

When my Cincinnati Reds reach the World Series again (along with the Pirates and Royals) I'll say that the current structure of Major League Baseball isn't unfair.

These teams were perennial powerhouses, but have been relegated to being doormats. I'm not going to say it's all because of money; certainly a lot of blame rests with ownership and management. And I acknowledge that other small market teams have reached, and won, the championship in recent years. More often than not, however, it's been because the owner of those teams decided to spend like a maniac in a last ditch effort to win it all. The Astros opened up the pocketbook for Clemens and Pettite the year they went to the WS, and we all know about the Florida Marlins penchant for winning the Series and then holding a fire sale the following season.

I don't want to see my Reds spend way over their heads, acquire a team of superstars, win the pennant, and then go back to being cellar dwellers for another 10 years.

[underdog]

When my Cincinnati Reds reach the World Series again (along with the Pirates and Royals) I'll say that the current structure of Major League Baseball isn't unfair.

THE REDS HIRED DUSTY BAKER AS A MANAGER.

It has NOTHING to do with money; it's horrible, horrible management.

[Snoogans]

THE REDS HIRED DUSTY BAKER AS A MANAGER.

It has NOTHING to do with money; it's horrible, horrible management.

man has a point

[Gvac]

When my Cincinnati Reds reach the World Series again (along with the Pirates and Royals) I'll say that the current structure of Major League Baseball isn't unfair.

These teams were perennial powerhouses, but have been relegated to being doormats. I'm not going to say it's all because of money; certainly a lot of blame rests with ownership and management. And I acknowledge that other small market teams have reached, and won, the championship in recent years. More often than not, however, it's been because the owner of those teams decided to spend like a maniac in a last ditch effort to win it all. The Astros opened up the pocketbook for Clemens and Pettite the year they went to the WS, and we all know about the Florida Marlins penchant for winning the Series and then holding a fire sale the following season.

I don't want to see my Reds spend way over their heads, acquire a team of superstars, win the pennant, and then go back to being cellar dwellers for another 10 years.

THE REDS HIRED DUSTY BAKER AS A MANAGER.

It has NOTHING to do with money; it's horrible, horrible management.

man has a point

Sometimes it pays to read the entire post.

[Snoogans]

Sometimes it pays to read the entire post.

Man's got a point

[underdog]

Sometimes it pays to read the entire post.

I read your post, but like I said in my post, it has NOTHING to do with money.

[IMSlacker]

I read your post, but like I said in my post, it has NOTHING to do with money.

I does have something to do with money, in that teams like the Yankees can afford to make some bad signings without completely screwing the franchise, whereas smaller market teams cannot. So, having a lot of money can compensate for some poor management decisions.

[underdog]

I does have something to do with money, in that teams like the Yankees can afford to make some bad signings without completely screwing the franchise, whereas smaller market teams cannot. So, having a lot of money can compensate for some poor management decisions.

That's actually a pretty damn good point. One or two bad signings can cripple smaller teams.

[cougarjake13]

I does have something to do with money, in that teams like the Yankees can afford to make some bad signings without completely screwing the franchise, whereas smaller market teams cannot. So, having a lot of money can compensate for some poor management decisions.

That's actually a pretty damn good point. One or two bad signings can cripple smaller teams.



agreed


look what happen to the d rays after they tried that in 200 with the hit show

greg vaughn, canseco, etc.

[SP1!]

...

What?
Im just saying any time I post anything outside of their set thought process it gets most of these people riled up, not singling you out but since you responded Im quoting you. Every board has its flow and personal preferences, its why I try to refrain from posting in labor threads or anything to do with job titles. People want to be PC but there is a big difference from having to get up at 4am to slam garbage cans and someone who goes into an office for work. Its not being elitist, its reality, the public just looks at those two people differently.

What is all this shit about fairness?? Life isn't fair! You know what else isn't fair? Capitalism! It would be more fair if it were communism or socialism.


Remember last year the Rockies went to the World Series! Before that we had a Detroit-St. Louis World Series! The year before that we had a Chicago-Houston series! You have to be shitting me when you tell me that the Yankees are ruining baseball when you have teams like Tampa Bay, Colorado, St. Louis, and Houston going to the World Series.
Oh I agree completely but the biggest problem is all the lost revenue on teams that dont have a superstar, I think a scrappy team beats a superstar laden team every time. Problem is that teams like that usually lose money to start the year since nothing draws them in like having shiny, new players to go see. The rays last year had a decent team to start the season but didnt draw fans until the last couple months of the season, they lose out on a lot of concession revenue and apparel sales.

Its all a vicious circle but its always fun to watch teams with huge payrolls miss or choke in the playoffs.

[Gvac]

Would you say that the NFL is the only place where communism works? Everyone shares the revenue evenly, and teams have to spend a certain amount on payroll, as dictated to them by the NFL.

Management, scouting, and coaching are really the only differences in the teams, that's why you have New England being a perennial winner and Detroit being a perennial loser.

[cougarjake13]

Would you say that the NFL is the only place where communism works? Everyone shares the revenue evenly, and teams have to spend a certain amount on payroll, as dictated to them by the NFL.

Management, scouting, and coaching are really the only differences in the teams, that's why you have New England being a perennial winner and Detroit being a perennial loser.

i guess if you wanna call it communism then yeh

[sailor]

Would you say that the NFL is the only place where communism works? Everyone shares the revenue evenly, and teams have to spend a certain amount on payroll, as dictated to them by the NFL.

Management, scouting, and coaching are really the only differences in the teams, that's why you have New England being a perennial winner and Detroit being a perennial loser.

no, because they're working within a capitalist system and that's where the money comes from. also, only the owners share revenue. the players are acting in their own self-interest. if it was truly communist they'd not get more money for performing well (i think that's the way it works, but i could be wrong) and the quality of the game would diminish.

[SP1!]

Would you say that the NFL is the only place where communism works? Everyone shares the revenue evenly, and teams have to spend a certain amount on payroll, as dictated to them by the NFL.

Management, scouting, and coaching are really the only differences in the teams, that's why you have New England being a perennial winner and Detroit being a perennial loser.
Fuck I would love communism and be a complete supporter if my minimum salary would be $285000.

[TheMojoPin]

Isn't it really redundant to so explicitly attempt to apply "middle class" economic mentalities and perspectives to the almost surreal-y and exceptional upper class nature of MLB?

[TripleSkeet]

Isn't it really redundant to so explicitly attempt to apply "middle class" economic mentalities and perspectives to the almost surreal-y and exceptional upper class nature of MLB?

Youre absolutely right.


And for whoever said "Lifes not fair" youre right, but sports are supposed to be fair. Its one of the few systems where "Lifes not fair" is not supposed to apply.

[TonyStark]

Youre absolutely right.


And for whoever said "Lifes not fair" youre right, but sports are supposed to be fair. Its one of the few systems where "Lifes not fair" is not supposed to apply.
I agree, the point of playing the game and having the league and all the teams is so that everyone's on different footing and can compete equally, which obviously isn't happening at this point.

[GvacMobile]

Tony Stark makes you feel
He's a cool exec with a heart of steel