Baseball HOF...who ya got?

[El Mudo]

The eligible candiates are: Harold Baines, Jay Bell*, Bert Blyleven, David Cone*, Andre Dawson, Ron Gant*, Mark Grace*, Rickey Henderson*, Tommy John**, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco*, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac*, Tim Raines, Jim Rice**, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Greg Vaughn*, Mo Vaughn* and Matt Williams*.

*first time on the ballot

**final time on the ballot

Other than Rickey, whos obvious, maybe Blyleven, although his ERA + is not so good, but he's got a really good DERA and a lot of strikeouts and really good WARP numbers

The love force is going to be in effect for Jim Rice, but I simply don't think he belongs. If I put in Jim Rice, why can't I put in Roy White, who has similar numbers?

Jim Rice Career EqA:.292

Roy White Career EqA:.292

White's career WARP 3 is also higher than Rice's, and has IMMENSELY better fielding statistics (Rice's career FRAA is -60....ouch).

How about Dewey? His Career EqA is .297, and his career WARP 3 is 116.5, both of which are better than Rice's or White's.

The point is, I don't think Rice was a good enough hitter to be in the HOF...sorry Sox fans

[Marc with a c]

as long as bert blyleven doesn't get in i'll be happy.

[KingGeno]

Rickey Henderson believes that a man of Rickey Henderson's talent & Rickey Henderson's prowess should be elected to the Hall of Fame in a Rickey Henderson-like style and a Rickey Henderson voting method approved by Rickey Henderson. Rickey Henderson.

[midwestjeff]

No McGwire. No Peace.


Damn, I gotta start printing bumper stickers.

[IMSlacker]

Henderson will be the only one who gets in. Blyleven should get in, but won't. Marc will be happy.

[Bossanova]

as long as bert blyleven doesn't get in i'll be happy.

Why all the hate on Burt "Be Home' Blyleven? I hate V=Chris Berman.


Jim Rice should be in, but wont. I think Henderson is the only one who should get in, aside from Rice

[MacVittie]

Just Rickey, that's it.

[drjoek]

I can not wait to hear Ricky Henderson's speech!!

[Snoogans]

jim rice and only jim rice

[Snoogans]

Just Rickey, that's it.

they should also put ricky in the World Poker HOF too, him and bonilla

[KingGeno]

I can not wait to hear Ricky Henderson's speech!!

Well..... http://itsmeyou.ytmnd.com/

[Bossanova]

they should also put ricky in the World Poker HOF too, him and bonilla

DURING A FUCKING PLAYOFF GAME! Who does that?

[Puggle_kicker]

http://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com/autographed/memorabilia/sports/collectibles/authentic/Baseball/8x10%20Photos/Don_Mattingly_Auto_Photo2_mid.jpg

[Bossanova]

Well..... http://itsmeyou.ytmnd.com/

HAHA! Thats fucking great.

[Snoogans]

Well..... http://itsmeyou.ytmnd.com/

Rodney Harrison is not going to be happy about this

[Fezticle98]

The eligible candiates are: Harold Baines, Jay Bell*, Bert Blyleven, David Cone*, Andre Dawson, Ron Gant*, Mark Grace*, Rickey Henderson*, Tommy John**, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco*, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac*, Tim Raines, Jim Rice**, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Greg Vaughn*, Mo Vaughn* and Matt Williams*.

*first time on the ballot

**final time on the ballot

Other than Rickey, whos obvious, maybe Blyleven, although his ERA + is not so good, but he's got a really good DERA and a lot of strikeouts and really good WARP numbers

The love force is going to be in effect for Jim Rice, but I simply don't think he belongs. If I put in Jim Rice, why can't I put in Roy White, who has similar numbers?

Jim Rice Career EqA:.292

Roy White Career EqA:.292

White's career WARP 3 is also higher than Rice's, and has IMMENSELY better fielding statistics (Rice's career FRAA is -60....ouch).

How about Dewey? His Career EqA is .297, and his career WARP 3 is 116.5, both of which are better than Rice's or White's.

The point is, I don't think Rice was a good enough hitter to be in the HOF...sorry Sox fans

WARP, DERA, ERA+, EqA, FRAA?

Enough. Your comparison between Roy White and Jim Rice is preposterous.

.298 Avg, 2452 hits, 382 hr, 1451 rbi, 8 time all star, 6 times in top 5 of MVP voting, including 1 win.

.271, 1803, 160, 758, 2 time all-star.

Which stats belong to someone who deserves hall consideration?

[Snoogans]

DURING A FUCKING PLAYOFF GAME! Who does that?

Ricky Henderson....duh

[PD]

The eligible candiates are: Harold Baines, Jay Bell*, Bert Blyleven, David Cone*, Andre Dawson, Ron Gant*, Mark Grace*, Rickey Henderson*, Tommy John**, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco*, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac*, Tim Raines, Jim Rice**, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Greg Vaughn*, Mo Vaughn* and Matt Williams*.

*first time on the ballot

**final time on the ballot

Other than Rickey, whos obvious, maybe Blyleven, although his ERA + is not so good, but he's got a really good DERA and a lot of strikeouts and really good WARP numbers

The love force is going to be in effect for Jim Rice, but I simply don't think he belongs. If I put in Jim Rice, why can't I put in Roy White, who has similar numbers?

Jim Rice Career EqA:.292

Roy White Career EqA:.292

White's career WARP 3 is also higher than Rice's, and has IMMENSELY better fielding statistics (Rice's career FRAA is -60....ouch).

How about Dewey? His Career EqA is .297, and his career WARP 3 is 116.5, both of which are better than Rice's or White's.

The point is, I don't think Rice was a good enough hitter to be in the HOF...sorry Sox fans

very simply,
Jim Rice- 8x all star (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riceji01.shtml)
Roy White - 2x all star. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/whitero01.shtml)

baseball-reference.com has 2 HOF stats; if you compare its not even close.

Rice and of course Ricky. Probably Andre Dawson.
Dave Parker, Bert Blylevin and Jack Morris - just out.

[Fezticle98]

Henderson, Rice, Dawson, and Lee Smith. All deserve to be in the hall.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

I think of that group only Henderson belongs in there. I love Dawson, but given the era he played in his numbers aren't truly great for a corner OFer.

[Snoogans]

I think of that group only Henderson belongs in there. I love Dawson, but given the era he played in his numbers aren't truly great for a corner OFer.

fuck you and your Jim Rice hating

[Bossanova]

Seriously, Rice dominated for a solid decade. If stupid Kirby Puckett is in for not dominating shit, how is Rice not in?

[instrument]

Its a shame what happened to mattingly after the back surgery.

Rickey Hendersons career is quite the read, wiki it and enjoy

[epo]

I'll say Rickey Henderson will be it and anybody who whines that Ron Santo should be picked by the Veterans Committee should lose their right to watch games.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

anybody who whines that Ron Santo should be picked by the Veterans Committee should lose their right to watch games.

I know a sound, reasoned sports argument is something you're incapable of doing, so I'm not surprised that hearing one sounds like "whining" to you.

[JPMNICK]

i can't wait to see Ricky pick up his dark sunglasses to wipe the tears from his eyes

[Snoogans]

In February 2002, he signed as a free agent with the Boston Red Sox, where he became the oldest player to play center field in major league history when he stood in for starter Johnny Damon. Henderson's arrival was marked by a statistical oddity. During the 22 and a half years since his June 1979 debut through the end of the 2001 season, he had stolen more bases by himself than his new team had: 1,395 steals for Henderson, 1,382 for the Boston franchise. The Red Sox finally "passed" Henderson on April 30, 2002. At 43, Henderson was the oldest player in the American League.

[Freakshow]

dale murphy.

I have his card and I want it to go up in value...

[Snoogans]

dale murphy.

I have his card and I want it to go up in value...

I didnt do shit for my Mike Schmidt card

[epo]

I know a sound, reasoned sports argument is something you're incapable of doing, so I'm not surprised that hearing one sounds like "whining" to you.

Haha. Even from Europe you'll defend the worst announcer in the history of sports!

[IMSlacker]

Haha. Even from Europe you'll defend the worst announcer in the history of sports!

When did Mojo defend Bob Uecker?

[jauble]

I'll say Rickey Henderson will be it and anybody who whines that Ron Santo should be picked by the Veterans Committee should lose their right to watch games.

Bernie Brewer has a gay moustache, and thats the worst thing you could say about a mascot.

[epo]

When did Mojo defend Bob Uecker?

Keep it up and we're taking Pat Hughes back. Then you'll be stuck with Santo by himself.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Haha. Even from Europe you'll defend the worst announcer in the history of sports!

He's not up for his broadcasting, Dr. Spin.

[epo]

He's not up for his broadcasting, Dr. Spin.

Calm down Larry Literal. I'm just messing around a little bit here, knowing what a passionate issue that Santo is for you Cubs fans.

With the way things are shaping up in Wrigley...this may one of my few joys with messing with the Cubs this season.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Shut up.

[cougarjake13]

rickey definitely

mcgwire is the only other one with numbers enough to get in but im not sure if he'll ever get in b/c of that congress thingy

[Puggle_kicker]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

[jonyrotn]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.I'm sorry but this statement is BANANAS!! :ohmy:

[jonyrotn]

Mattingly was the best player in the AL for about five years (with Henderson and Randolph hitting in front of him and Winfield and pagliarulohitting behind him) but I don't think that's dominent ENOUGH to get in..

Jim Rice was on of the most feared hitters in all of baseball for 15 years and the only thing he has to show for it is a bull shit post game job on NESN..

[Dirtbag]

I was a big Matt Williams fan, but I think we're going to have to wait for the Unit to retire before there's an Arizona jersey in the Hall.

[Snoogans]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever read

[cougarjake13]

I was a big Matt Williams fan, but I think we're going to have to wait for the Unit to retire before there's an Arizona jersey in the Hall.

yeh williams doesnt have the numbers to get in

[A.J.]

If there was any justice, Jim Rice would be going in with Dwight Evans.

[El Mudo]

WARP, DERA, ERA+, EqA, FRAA?

Enough. Your comparison between Roy White and Jim Rice is preposterous.

.298 Avg, 2452 hits, 382 hr, 1451 rbi, 8 time all star, 6 times in top 5 of MVP voting, including 1 win.

.271, 1803, 160, 758, 2 time all-star.

Which stats belong to someone who deserves hall consideration?


WARP, DERA, ERA+, EqA, and FRAA are "statistics" used for "measuring performance" of how good people are at base ball, all of which are better ways to measure a baseball player than pretty much all the ways you mentioned above (and screw Byleven...his ERA + is only 118...blah). Have we ever had a one person HOF class before? Cause it looks like it will only be Rickey.

And PLEASE stop trying to tell me All Star game appearances mean something. Should I now include those crappy guys who make the teams every year from the Pirates and Royals as "great" players? Hell, the Nats sent Cristian Effing Guzman to the All Star game last year. Or how bout when the Pirates sent Mike Williams?

All Star games mean SHIT...theyre nothing but stupid popularity contests and should be no measure in the LEAST of a player's ability to play baseball.



Seriously, Rice dominated for a solid decade. If stupid Kirby Puckett is in for not dominating shit, how is Rice not in?


Even though he shouldn't be in himself, Puckett's career EqA is higher, and his WARP3 is higher than Rice's. Rice's OPS + is slightly better, but he also played longer (and in a friendlier ball park). And Dewey's numbers are better than BOTH and he's not in, so there goes your argument right there.

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

This is why people hate the Yankees

[EddieMoscone]

Why no love for Rock Raines?

The man played 20+ seasons, had a career average just under .300, stole over 800 bases (70+ is a season 6 times, led the league 4 times) and was a player that was as consistent as you would find in baseball. 7 time all-star, a batting title, a silver slugger, etc.

[foodcourtdruide]

Why no love for Rock Raines?

The man played 20+ seasons, had a career average just under .300, stole over 800 bases (70+ is a season 6 times, led the league 4 times) and was a player that was as consistent as you would find in baseball. 7 time all-star, a batting title, a silver slugger, etc.

There is no way those are hall of fame numbers. Raines was not an elite player of a long period of time.

[foodcourtdruide]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

This might be the craziest thing ever posted on this board. You cannot be serious.

[EddieMoscone]

There is no way those are hall of fame numbers. Raines was not an elite player of a long period of time.

He was an elite player from 81-87, 7 seasons. He was very good for the most of the rest.

What period of time being an elite player is enough? Not an attack, just a question.

[foodcourtdruide]

He was an elite player from 81-87, 7 seasons. He was very good for the most of the rest.

What period of time being an elite player is enough? Not an attack, just a question.

I always struggle with this. I think it depends how elite they are, you know?

Like, for example if Raines had 7 Barry Bonds level seasons, I'd say he'd be elite enough to get into the hall of fame no matter what he did with the rest of his career. But calling Raines elite is probably debatable. He didn't change baseball. I'd say Raines would have needed 12-13 years at that level to be a hall of famer.

[Snoogans]

He was an elite player from 81-87, 7 seasons. He was very good for the most of the rest.

What period of time being an elite player is enough? Not an attack, just a question.

I would say at least 10 years, unless the player died in the middle of the run

[foodcourtdruide]

I would say at least 10 years, unless the player died in the middle of the run

Disagree with death comment. Why not give it to guys with bad injuries then?

[Snoogans]

Disagree with death comment. Why not give it to guys with bad injuries then?

injuries are part of the game, so you have to make it without getting hurt. You dominate for 5 straight years and die in a car accident, thats different.

[foodcourtdruide]

injuries are part of the game, so you have to make it without getting hurt. You dominate for 5 straight years and die in a car accident, thats different.

What if you break your leg in a car accident and can never play again?

[Snoogans]

What if you break your leg in a car accident and can never play again?

In essence, thats a player dying. Mattingly was all baseball injuries and he fought back from them. had his career just suddenly ended right after his last dominating year, he is most likely already in the HOF

[foodcourtdruide]

In essence, thats a player dying. Mattingly was all baseball injuries and he fought back from them. had his career just suddenly ended right after his last dominating year, he is most likely already in the HOF

Got'cha. I agree.

[El Mudo]

Why no love for Rock Raines?

The man played 20+ seasons, had a career average just under .300, stole over 800 bases (70+ is a season 6 times, led the league 4 times) and was a player that was as consistent as you would find in baseball. 7 time all-star, a batting title, a silver slugger, etc.

He's got a .309 EqA and a 131(!) WARP3 and a much more impressive career OPS (.810) and OPS + (123) than you would think, so he deserves MUCH more consideration for the HOF than Jim Rice

[Snoogans]

He's got a .309 EqA and a 131(!) WARP3 and a much more impressive career OPS (.810) and OPS + (123) than you would think, so he deserves MUCH more consideration for the HOF than Jim Rice

Yea if numbers were the only thing that should matter. Jim Rice was feared. A hell of alot more feared then Tim Raines

[epo]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

Can I join in the giggling?

[El Mudo]

Yea if numbers were the only thing that should matter. Jim Rice was feared. A hell of alot more feared then Tim Raines

Did you even read what you just typed?

Of course, being "feared" is something that can be measured and analyzed statistically in compared to how "feared" other players are.

Can you get me the numbers on Jim Rice's "Feared" rating? I can't seem to find them on Baseball Prospectus.

I think Oscar Gamble's got a GREAT "Feared" rating because of his scary Afro

http://www.baseballtoddsdugout.com/1976ToppsTradedGamble.jpg

Baseball is a game that's measured by numbers and statistics, because there is a multitude of numbers, of which there are more measurable and comparable ones than pretty much any other game, and not objective fluff about how "feared" a hitter was, or how much "hustle" stupid David Eckstein has, or how "wins" are the best stat to measure a pitcher by

[Snoogans]

Did you even read what you just typed?

Of course, being "feared" is something that can be measured and analyzed statistically in compared to how "feared" other players are.

Can you get me the numbers on Jim Rice's "Feared" rating? I can't seem to find them on Baseball Prospectus.

I think Oscar Gamble's got a GREAT "Feared" rating because of his scary Afro

http://www.baseballtoddsdugout.com/1976ToppsTradedGamble.jpg

Baseball is a game that's measured by numbers and statistics, because there is a multitude of numbers, of which there are more measurable and comparable ones than pretty much any other game, and not objective fluff about how "feared" a hitter was, or how much "hustle" stupid David Eckstein has, or how "wins" are the best stat to measure a pitcher by

I guess this will never stop working on you fools.


Im just fuckin with you fools to get you all worked up. I really dont give a shit about the HOFs for anything because they are all bullshit. Until Joe Namath is out of the HOF, it doesnt mean shit to me

[El Mudo]

I guess this will never stop working on you fools.


Im just fuckin with you fools to get you all worked up. I really dont give a shit about the HOFs for anything because they are all bullshit. Until Joe Namath is out of the HOF, it doesnt mean shit to me



The BCS is a great system

[Snoogans]

The BCS is a great system

Honestly I cant argue about it. I wouldnt have any problem with a playoff but I also have no problem with how it is right now. i love college football, obviously its doing something right

[El Mudo]

Honestly I cant argue about it. I wouldnt have any problem with a playoff but I also have no problem with how it is right now. i love college football, obviously its doing something right


Its as good a system as we're going to get, and MUCH better than what we used to have to deal with

[Snoogans]

Its as good a system as we're going to get, and MUCH better than what we used to have to deal with

I agree. And it makes the regular season awesome.

[cougarjake13]

is raines eligible

[MacVittie]

Disagree with death comment. Why not give it to guys with bad injuries then?

They do, Kirby Puckett's career ended when he was 35 because of his glaucoma.

[MacVittie]

is raines eligible

Yes, he retired in 2002 and was on the ballot last year.

[Bossanova]

I say Donnie Baseball deserves it more than Rickety Henderson.

How werem't you banned for life for this statemen? Holy shit

[jonyrotn]

They do, Kirby Puckett's career ended when he was 35 because of his glaucoma.
Sure it did..
You can't pass a random drug test while you're treating glaucama..:smoke:

[cougarjake13]

Yes, he retired in 2002 and was on the ballot last year.

did he get any votes last year ??


he's like top 3 all time in steals no ??

[TheMojoPin]

El Mudo is the man.

[RickeyHenderson]

Evebody know Rickey Henderson shouldn't share the class with no one. Rickey Henderson is the greatest of all times and shouldn't be stuck with no second rate players

[midwestjeff]

Evebody know Rickey Henderson shouldn't share the class with no one. Rickey Henderson is the greatest of all times and shouldn't be stuck with no second rate players

What about Big Mac? You were there when he entered the league.
Sure, having the pitchers focusing on you threatening to steal
probably led to most of his homers as an Oakland A, but maybe they
could credit you for that on his plaque.

I just think it would be great to see you guys go in together.

P.S.-When you were both in your prime, who was a better base stealer? You or Vince Coleman.

Thanks Rickey.

[IMSlacker]

P.S.-When you were both in your prime, who was a better base stealer? You or Vince Coleman.

Tim Raines

[RickeyHenderson]

What about Big Mac? You were there when he entered the league.
Sure, having the pitchers focusing on you threatening to steal
probably led to most of his homers as an Oakland A, but maybe they
could credit you for that on his plaque.

I just think it would be great to see you guys go in together.

P.S.-When you were both in your prime, who was a better base stealer? You or Vince Coleman.

Thanks Rickey.

Now you makes an interesting point about Big Mac, but Rickey Henderson didnt use no steroids. Rickey Henderson was putting ten pound weights on Rickey henderson's ankles and running in sand. Big Mac got many homer because Rickey Henderson was on them basepaths. No pitcher wanted to have Rickey Henderson steal on him and they threw the wrong pitch. Now Rickey Henderson love Mark McGwire but the base ball writers aint putting him in and Rickey Henderson still aint sure if he want to share the lime light.

Now, Vince Coleman was a great base stealer, but aint no one like the greatest of all times Rickey Henderson. Rickey Henderson was the best in the 80's and 90's and in Rickey Henderson's opinion 2000's as well.

[RickeyHenderson]

Tim Raines

Don't get Rickey Henderson started on Tim Raines. He aint even in the H.O.F. Rickey Henderson is so much better when they played against each other. Rickey Henderson is the greatest of all times remember

[midwestjeff]

Don't get Rickey Henderson started on Tim Raines. He aint even in the H.O.F. Rickey Henderson is so much better when they played against each other. Rickey Henderson is the greatest of all times remember

Ignore him Rickey, he is a Cubs' fan so he really doesn't understand the game at all.

[IMSlacker]

Don't get Rickey Henderson started on Tim Raines. He aint even in the H.O.F. Rickey Henderson is so much better when they played against each other. Rickey Henderson is the greatest of all times remember

Shouldn't you be playing cards?

[RickeyHenderson]

Ignore him Rickey, he is a Cubs' fan so he really doesn't understand the game at all.

You right friend. Rickey Henderson aint got no time for Cub fans, they are the only team Rickey Henderson didnt play for or want to lay for.

Shouldn't you be playing cards?

Rickey Henderson only plays cards when Rickey Henderson's team aint got no chance to win. Rickey Henderson didnt play card when Rickey Henderson was winning MVP's and World Series' for the A's and Blue Jays. Two things the Cubs know nothing about

[vjr97]

bert blyleven now.bernie williams in 3 years

[IMSlacker]

bert blyleven now.bernie williams in 3 years

Rickey Henderson's not going to like this one bit.

[RickeyHenderson]

bert blyleven now.bernie williams in 3 years

Please. Rickey Henderson isnt never gonna share the spot light with Bert Blyleven. He aint even in Ozzie Canseco's league. Evebody know Rickey Henderson was da Yankees greatest centerfielder ever. Bernie William shouldn't even be mention in a thread with Rickey Henderson.

[Earlshog]

[QUOTE=RickeyHenderson;2056029]You right friend. Rickey Henderson aint got no time for Cub fans, they are the only team Rickey Henderson didnt play for or want to lay for.QUOTE]

Come on Rickey you mean to tell us one of the 7 times you played for Oakland you wouldn't have rather played for the Cubs?

[Earlshog]

bert blyleven now.bernie williams in 3 years

:ohmy: Bernie has a better chance of geting into the rock and roll hall of fame

Bo Diaz and Mike Fitzgerald

[RickeyHenderson]

[QUOTE=RickeyHenderson;2056029]You right friend. Rickey Henderson aint got no time for Cub fans, they are the only team Rickey Henderson didnt play for or want to lay for.QUOTE]

Come on Rickey you mean to tell us one of the 7 times you played for Oakland you wouldn't have rather played for the Cubs?

No way is Rickey Henderson playing with the patetich Cubs. Rickey Henderson love California and the A's. Rickey Henderson aint never run better than when Rickey Henderson played in the sunny state. Rickey Henderson also won a World Series and an MVP in Oakland. Rickey Henderson would have only won stolen base titles in Chicago, and we all know Rickey Henderson could win them anywhere

[Earlshog]

[QUOTE=Earlshog;2056049]

No way is Rickey Henderson playing with the patetich Cubs. Rickey Henderson love California and the A's. Rickey Henderson aint never run better than when Rickey Henderson played in the sunny state. Rickey Henderson also won a World Series and an MVP in Oakland. Rickey Henderson would have only won stolen base titles in Chicago, and we all know Rickey Henderson could win them anywhere


you don't really count that tainted earthquake ring as one of your accolades do you?

[dino_electropolis]

[QUOTE=Earlshog;2056049]

No way is Rickey Henderson playing with the patetich Cubs. Rickey Henderson love California and the A's. Rickey Henderson aint never run better than when Rickey Henderson played in the sunny state. Rickey Henderson also won a World Series and an MVP in Oakland. Rickey Henderson would have only won stolen base titles in Chicago, and we all know Rickey Henderson could win them anywhere

Hey rickey, dont forget your shitty stint as a Met.

[IMSlacker]

Hey rickey, dont forget your shitty stint as a Met.

I have nothing to add here, just wanted to stop the fucked up quotes. carry on.

[RickeyHenderson]

[QUOTE=RickeyHenderson;2056053]

Hey rickey, dont forget your shitty stint as a Met.

Like Rickey Henderson say, Rickey Henderson aint puttin forth an effort if Rickey henderson aint got no chance of winning

[Section 8]

Please. Rickey Henderson isnt never gonna share the spot light with Bert Blyleven. He aint even in Ozzie Canseco's league. Evebody know Rickey Henderson was da Yankees greatest centerfielder ever. Bernie William shouldn't even be mention in a thread with Rickey Henderson.

Rickey Henderson must be smokin' something, because Rickey Henderson was NOT the Yankees' centerfielder. Rickey Henderson was the Yankees' leftfielder.

[RickeyHenderson]

Rickey Henderson must be smokin' something, because Rickey Henderson was NOT the Yankees' centerfielder. Rickey Henderson was the Yankees' leftfielder.

Rickey Henderson aint smoking nothin. Rickey Henderson started out in centerfield, and moved to left near the end of Rickey Henderson's stint with the Yankees

[cougarjake13]

[QUOTE=RickeyHenderson;2056053]


you don't really count that tainted earthquake ring as one of your accolades do you?

well he also won a ring as a member of the 93 blue jays

[El Mudo]

Voting goes down today...


Hopefully sanity and brains will win the day over trite hyperbole and "intangible" garbage, but this is the BBWAA we're talking about here :dry:

BTW, the next few HOF classes look like GARBAGE

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, Dan Wilson

2012: Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, J.T. Snow, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

Other than Bagwell in 11 and Alomar in 10, I don't see ANY of these guys getting in. Bernie probably will because the writers have a boner for him (OPS + of 125 and EqA of .300 are borderline at best, and he's only got 3 seasons of a WARP3 over 10)

[Dan 'Hampton]

Bagwell has some steroids questions, right?

[El Mudo]

Bagwell has some steroids questions, right?

No clue...I don't see that he was named in the Mitchell Report



I do know that with a career OPS + of 149, (non adjusted OPS 0f .948), and a lifetime EqA of .324, he'll get in easily (or should).

Larry Walker is an interesting case, he's got a career OPS + of 140 and a career EqA of .302, which is pretty borderline for me, and his home/road splits cinch it for me as a "no"

2002:

Coors: .362, .453 OBP., .671 SLG., 18, 66, 59 runs.

Away: .312, .387 OBP., .530 SLG., 8, 38, 36 runs.

2001:

Coors: .406, .483 OBP., .687 SLG., 20, 74, 65 runs.

Away: .293, .416 OBP., .549 SLG., 18, 49, 42 runs.

1999:

Coors: .461, .531 OBP., .879 SLG., 26, 70, 72 runs.

Away: .286, .375 OBP., .519. SLG., 11, 45, 36 runs.

1998:

Coors: .418, .483 OBP., .757 SLG., 17, 44, 71 runs.

Away: .302, .403 OBP., .488 SLG., 6, 23, 42 runs.

1997:

Coors: .384, .460 OBP., .709 SLG., 20, 68, 82 runs.

Away: .346, .433 OBP., .733 SLG., 26, 62, 61 runs.

1995:

Coors: .343, .401 OBP., .739 SLG., 24, 59, 51 runs.

Away: .268, .361 OBP., .484 SLG., 12, 42, 45 runs.

[TheMojoPin]

Voting goes down today...


Hopefully sanity and brains will win the day over trite hyperbole and "intangible" garbage, but this is the BBWAA we're talking about here :dry:

BTW, the next few HOF classes look like GARBAGE

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, Dan Wilson

2012: Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, J.T. Snow, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

Other than Bagwell in 11 and Alomar in 10, I don't see ANY of these guys getting in. Bernie probably will because the writers have a boner for him (OPS + of 125 and EqA of .300 are borderline at best, and he's only got 3 seasons of a WARP3 over 10)

Those teams would be so awful.

[bentcorner]

Bagwell has some steroids questions, right?

Steroids were not a banned substance in baseball for much of his career. Steroids didn't become a banned substance in baseball till 2003.

[SPeeDy_Freak]

My prediction......

Ricky Henderson (82.5% of vote)
Jim Rice (77% of vote)

[led37zep]

Matt Williams deserves to go in on the first ballot.

Anyone who is bald by 25 and a solid 3rd baseman should be in...NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

[El Mudo]

Rice (joke) and Rickey got in....


The writers are retarded sentimentalist jackoffs

[TheMojoPin]

Rice (joke) and Rickey got in....


The writers are retarded sentimentalist jackoffs

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.

[Snoogans]

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.


do they put guys like this on just to laugh?

[El Mudo]

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.



Have you seen the story about the guy that left Rickey completely off his ballot? (http://deadspin.com/5125268/octogenarian-writer-leaves-rickey-henderson-off-hof-ballot-hilarity-ensues)


He's Corky Simpson...he didn't vote for Rickey, but he voted for Matt Williams (http://homerderby.com/archives/2247)

There's this whole really stupid "tradition" in baseball that since Babe Ruth didn't get voted in unanimously, then no one does...look at this about the guys that didn't get unanimous and how many votes they missed by (from that article above)


• Cal Ripken, 8 (537 of 545). That whole consecutive games playing streak thing? Overrated.

• Hank Aaron, 9 (406 of 415). There's still some question about those absentee ballots from Minnesota.

• Babe Ruth, 11 (215 of 226). All 11 also thought Hitler was no particular threat.

• Ted Williams, 20 (282 of 302). Sorry Teddy Ballgame, not quite good enough.

• Willie Mays, 23 (409 of 432). Curiously, all 23 did vote for Art Shamsky.

[underdog]

• Cal Ripken, 8 (537 of 545). That whole consecutive games playing streak thing? Overrated.

Isn't it a little overrated, though?

[drjoek]

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.


How many more years of eligibility does Bert Blyleven have?

[K.C.]

Mark McGwire 118 21.9%


This is probably the most interesting thing to come out of this.

McGwire's actually going backwards. A lot of people thought that he'd gradually pick up votes as the years went along.

That does not bode well for guys like Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, Palmeiro...

[OGC]

This is probably the most interesting thing to come out of this.

McGwire's actually going backwards. A lot of people thought that he'd gradually pick up votes as the years went along.

That does not bode well for guys like Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, Palmeiro...

good enough for the fucking cheaters

[midwestjeff]

McGwire's actually going backwards. A lot of people thought that he'd gradually pick up votes as the years went along.

It's fucking bullshit. I guess speculation is more important than stats.

I don't understand it at all. He deserves to be there.

[TheMojoPin]

good enough for the fucking cheaters

Bullshit. The guys that didn't get caught should be in, especially Bonds, Sosa and McGwire.

Bonds should be in for just being an amazing player. From his years alon where you know he wasn't a monster he deserves to be in there.

Sosa and McGwire need to be in there for being hitting monsters and saving fucking baseball.

Anyone who says they hated all the amazing power in the 90's is a liar and I will fight you. Just like with everything else in baseball, if you did i before they cracked down, you're in the clear. Steroids should be no different.

[TheMojoPin]

It's fucking bullshit. I guess speculation is more important than stats.

I don't understand it all. He deserves to be there.

Agreed.

Now say Sosa should be in there.

[midwestjeff]

Sosa and McGwire need to be in there for being hitting monsters and saving fucking baseball.

I am all for Sosa going in and mainly for this reason. Granted, both players did enough outside of saving the entire sport to be put in, but this really should make them both locks.

Although, one of them did prefer a corked bat, but I can let that slide.

[Epschtein]

congrats jim ed!

i know there is a good argument that he shouldnt quite make it but he was a childhood hero so im happy for the man.

he certainly isnt the worst selection ever. :)

[foodcourtdruide]

Larry Walker is an interesting case, he's got a career OPS + of 140 and a career EqA of .302, which is pretty borderline for me, and his home/road splits cinch it for me as a "no"



1999:

Coors: .461, .531 OBP., .879 SLG., 26, 70, 72 runs.

Away: .286, .375 OBP., .519. SLG., 11, 45, 36 runs.



This is so amazing to me. Wow, those splits are insane.

[TheMojoPin]

I am all for Sosa going in and mainly for this reason. Granted, both players did enough outside of saving the entire sport to be put in, but this really should make them both locks.

Although, one of them did prefer a corked bat, but I can let that slide.

Balls to that, you scumbag. He hit everything with a single corked bat?

[Fezticle98]

It's fucking bullshit. I guess speculation is more important than stats.

I don't understand it all. He deserves to be there.


Sosa and McGwire need to be in there for being hitting monsters and saving fucking baseball.

Anyone who says they hated all the amazing power in the 90's is a liar and I will fight you. Just like with everything else in baseball, if you did i before they cracked down, you're in the clear. Steroids should be no different.

Sounds like we have some homerun derby fans on the board. Baseball is fun, too.

Now go sit down and watch a long-drive competition. I'll stick to the PGA.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4151/simp6mb4.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

Sounds like we have some homerun derby fans on the board. Baseball is fun, too.

Now go sit down and watch a long-drive competition. I'll stick to the PGA.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4151/simp6mb4.jpg

Somebody's a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Earlshog]

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.

haha... how did Jay Bell get more votes then Ron Gant!!! This is an outrage!

[led37zep]

Check out the vote breakdowns:

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8%
Jim Rice 412 76.4%
Andre Dawson 361 67.0%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7%
Lee Smith 240 44.5%
Jack Morris 237 44.0%
Tommy John 171 31.7%
Tim Raines 122 22.6%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4%
Dave Parker 81 15.0%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5%
Harold Baines 32 5.9%
Mark Grace 22 4.1%
David Cone 21 3.9%
Matt Williams 7 1.3%
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1%
Jay Bell 2 0.4%
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2%
Ron Gant 0 0%
Dan Plesac 0 0%
Greg Vaughn 0 0%

Who is the moronic 5.2% that DIDN'T vote for Rickey!??!

It's cute seeing the relatives of Jay Bell and Jesse Orosco getting their votes in.

Hmmm....well ok.

[El Mudo]

Now here's a more interesting case

Edgar Martinez.

I heard Keith Law talk about being in favour of his selection, and while at first I was really skeptical.

I mean, he's got the numbers I think (.326 EqA, 147 OPS +, OBP .418), but incredibly low WARP3 numbers, which you can attribute to the fact that he never played in the field and was a DH. I think that really hurts him (and will hurt him for a while), but I feel like since we have guys who couldn't hit but played defence exceptionally (Ozzie Smith, Luis Aparicio for example), why don't we have guys who didn't play defence but HIT exceptionally well?

The question is, did Edgar hit exceptionally well enough to get in based on that alone? I would say with those power numbers above, yes.

[KnoxHarrington]

I hate these douche HOF voters who are so concerned with all these external factors to their vote, like if someone should be unanimous, if they should go in first ballot, if there are too many inductees that year, blah blah blah.

If you are a HOF voter, here should be what you vote based on: does this player deserve in or not? If so, it doesn't matter how many times he's been on the ballot or if you think he might go in unanimously, or any of that horseshit. That's not your damn concern. If it happens, it happens.

[El Mudo]

posted this in the Red Sox thread

Couldn't be happier for the man....its the writers who get my wrath

They are the most pretentious bunch of people in the entire world. They think stats guys are people who "don't watch the game", yet they use pseudo stats like "MVP awards" and "all star game appearances" to back up their "arguments" about how great a player is. They elevate "scrappy" (aka white) players like Erstad and Eckstein to mythical status and talk about guys like Manny Ramirez and Vlad Guererro like theyre basically "children" incapable of hard work and playing the game "the right way".

I despise them all.