Doubt

[thepaulo]

We are all full of it.....

Doubt is a Tony-winning play, now a movie with Merryl Streep and Phillip Seymour Hoffman......
If it is anywhere near as powerful on screen as it was on the stage it will definately be a major contender this year.

In a Catholic school, a senior nun goes after the parish priest on allegations of abuse.

[Tall_James]

Playing a pedophile.

Third most effective role an actor can play to garner Oscar buzz.

First most effective role?

Retard.

[watson]

We are all full of it.....

Doubt is a Tony-winning play, now a movie with Merryl Streep and Phillip Seymour Hoffman......
If it is anywhere near as powerful on screen as it was on the stage it will definately be a major contender this year.

In a Catholic school, a senior nun goes after the parish priest on allegations of abuse.

thanks for ruining the movie for me

[drjoek]

One of the best plays I have seen on Broadway. Looking forward to it.

[Gerald]

Looks outstanding. I'm sensing there's going to be a parallel betwen the dual certainties the Streep character has concerning the kid touching and her faith in a higher power. Hype suggests Viola Davis may achieve shoe-in status as supporting actress for her powerful turn as the mother of the alleged victim. If that's the case then both supporting categories may be in the bag this year well in advance.

[extracheese]

Just saw this movie - Questions for those who saw it below

So - did he or didn't he?? Did they leave it ambiguous on purpose? I did not think he did, but if she never made that call, what was he afraid of from his previous job?
And what was Streep crying about at the end? What was she in doubt about??

[west milly Tom]

Playing a pedophile.

Third most effective role an actor can play to garner Oscar buzz.

First most effective role?

Retard.

not full retard, part-tard

[FezsAssistant]

The preview made it look like Streep was mad at Hoffman for not being mean to black kids.
I thought it was a jumping on the bandwagon Obama movie.

[thepaulo]

Doubt is a big part of our lives.
God doesn't come to most of us like he did to Jim Carrey In Bruce Almighty.
When we have the power to affect people's lives, often we are wrong.
We try to make the right decisions but frequently we're wrong.
The play and movie deals with ambiguities.

[boonanas]

Just saw this movie - Questions for those who saw it below

So - did he or didn't he?? Did they leave it ambiguous on purpose? I did not think he did, but if she never made that call, what was he afraid of from his previous job?
And what was Streep crying about at the end? What was she in doubt about??

I personally think he did do it. Only because that bully kid was smiling when he resigned his position, probably being happy to be rid of the corrupt priest. Also, I believe Meryl Streep is in doubt about the existence of a god in presence of such evil, especially evil committed by a priest. This goes back to the first sermon that the priest did, talking about doubts. When she said "I have doubts" it was a really great moment and a great ending to the film.

[extracheese]

This is an excellent essay on what this movie means

http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotbutton/2008/11/review_doubt_part_two_spoilers.html

[hammersavage]

The acting was excellent. I think Amy Adams deserves a supporting nod after Streep and Hoffman. She stole the film for me.

The ambiguity of the ending I guess is the point of the flick but it left me a little flat. I kinda couldn't understand the scene with Donald's mother either.

The only reason I think he may have committed the act was the way that the other white alter boy was acting. He seemed to snap at the teacher for no reason and was never explained. Probably was lashing out at someone else.

Anyway, pretty good helped by the caliber of acting. Another director may have delivered a clearer vision.

[RoseBlood]

Fantastic!!!! There is a reason Streep and Hoffman get nominated so much, they are truly amazing actors. I saw this and wow, just wow! I really loved the amiguity of the end and this is the type of movie you think about afterwards and enjoy hearing everyone elses take on it. Who thought he was guilty, who thought he wasn't etc etc. I also found myself thinking of different scenes and having my opinion of the characters motives flip flop from one minute to the next. Perhaps when I'm less distracted I'll be able to add more to this discussion.

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

I doubt that i will see this movie.

[RoseBlood]

I kinda couldn't understand the scene with Donald's mother either.
What did you not understand about the scene with Donalds mother? My guess was that she felt trapped as far as the options available to her as a black women living in the 60's. She knew her son was gay and that Donald's father hated him for it, beating him after the wine incident and she feared if this new info surfaced, it would open up a can of worms she wasn't ready to deal with. She also feard his father would literally kill the boy. I'm not saying it's right, but given the time and situation the woman was in, she may have felt this was her only option: to wait it out till June, so he could graduate, get into a good high school and college. I know success at any cost isn't right and whether or not she was right or wrong, I truly think she had Donald's best interest at heart, even if her inactions might have ill-effects on him later.

Again, I love the fact there were no answers, it makes for great discussions and forces the viewer to question their own doubts and views.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm Mr. Naysayer yet again. Loved the performances in this film...truly outstanding...but I thought the script was pretty average and ultimately was elevated by the quality of the actors acting it out.

Random aside...I'm friends with the screenwriter's niece.

[hammersavage]

What did you not understand about the scene with Donalds mother? My guess was that she felt trapped as far as the options available to her as a black women living in the 60's. She knew her son was gay and that Donald's father hated him for it, beating him after the wine incident and she feared if this new info surfaced, it would open up a can of worms she wasn't ready to deal with. She also feard his father would literally kill the boy. I'm not saying it's right, but given the time and situation the woman was in, she may have felt this was her only option: to wait it out till June, so he could graduate, get into a good high school and college. I know success at any cost isn't right and whether or not she was right or wrong, I truly think she had Donald's best interest at heart, even if her inactions might have ill-effects on him later.


Well, you actually cleared up quite a bit. I was pretty sure she was saying he was gay but it just seemed like alot of circumstance around the subject but the way you put it clears it up. Thanks.

I do have a problem with the mother saying 'its ok if my son gets molested. just get him til june.'

I don't mind a movie being ambiguous. I think I'm a smart enough viewer to get it. But there was just a little too much haziness and I think a more experienced film director would have towed that line a little better. It's like the story didn't matter at all, it was just the performances and the characters. It worked on that level for sure.

I'm Mr. Naysayer yet again. Loved the performances in this film...truly outstanding...but I thought the script was pretty average and ultimately was elevated by the actors acting it out.

I'm with you Mojo. It was almost as if the narrative was just a vehicle for the performances. I wonder if the play is any different in this regard.

[thepaulo]

The play is very highly regarded and the movie is just a pretty straight foward adaptation of the play. Ambiguity is the whole point of the story so accept it and examine your own feelings. The performances are great. The weakness is the playwright is not a film director but he does an okay job.
My feeling is that the priest is a good man but full of weaknesses and perhaps feels more guilt about his thoughts and actions than he should.
Merryl Streep's character wants certainty and morality and will use just about any method to achieve those goals. She wants to be good but feels her role is to search for truth and that search forces her to ignore and supress whatever good is in her.

[fezident]

A bit late to the conversation but; I just saw this movie for the first time (2x, actually) and I got a lot out of it.

There are layers and subtleties in this film that made it enjoyable for me.

Sister James and Sister Aloyisuis (Streep) had a very interesting dynamic.
Sister James was more "open" and, she elected to wear her bonnet in a wide open fashion. Sister Streep was more focused and saw the world in a smaller way. And her bonnet was more focused. As if she had blinders on. But... the oldest nun was literally BLIND. She has almost no eyesight. As the movie moved forward.... each sister was growing older and becoming more and more "blind".

I really enjoyed that.


Also, there was a quick joke from Father Flynn during the scene where he's telling his male students about asking women to dance, and that it's okay if the woman says "no". You can just ask another girl to dance.
When a student asks "what happens if ALL the women say no?" He replies "well... then you become a Priest."
Perhaps that was an allusion to The Father being a homosexual. He was not very good with woman or perhaps he was shunned by them. Or what have you.
Sister Streep, of course, had no knowledge of The Father's bad luck with women but, as evidenced by complete and total grasp of that one student's fake nosebleed situation, she simply KNOWS people. In fact, at one point, she verbalizes that her experiences has taught her to really, truly, "know people".

I really enjoyed that too.

During the closing scene, when Streep has a breakdown, you can hear the music coming from the Christmas pagent, and .... wouldn't ya know it.... it was a secular Xmas song. One that Father Flynn thought was a good idea. It sort of implied that Father Flynn was there in spirit. And, much to the dismay of Streep, her little prison/school was becoming more progressive.

I like that layer very much. It implies that the characters in this movie have lives that will continue long after the credits roll.

Good stuff.



Also...
I agree with the budday who said that Steep's doubt was about that of a higher power. Her husband was killed in combat, the priests are touching the altar boys, parents are beating their own children, students are intolerant of other races..... etc etc. The "lord" sure does work in mysterious ways in her world. All her sacrifice was/is, seemingly, for nothing.

[thepaulo]

A bit late to the conversation but; I just saw this movie for the first time (2x, actually) and I got a lot out of it.

There are layers and subtleties in this film that made it enjoyable for me.

Sister James and Sister Aloyisuis (Streep) had a very interesting dynamic.
Sister James was more "open" and, she elected to wear her bonnet in a wide open fashion. Sister Streep was more focused and saw the world in a smaller way. And her bonnet was more focused. As if she had blinders on. But... the oldest nun was literally BLIND. She has almost no eyesight. As the movie moved forward.... each sister was growing older and becoming more and more "blind".

I really enjoyed that.


Also, there was a quick joke from Father Flynn during the scene where he's telling his male students about asking women to dance, and that it's okay if the woman says "no". You can just ask another girl to dance.
When a student asks "what happens if ALL the women say no?" He replies "well... then you become a Priest."
Perhaps that was an allusion to The Father being a homosexual. He was not very good with woman or perhaps he was shunned by them. Or what have you.
Sister Streep, of course, had no knowledge of The Father's bad luck with women but, as evidenced by complete and total grasp of that one student's fake nosebleed situation, she simply KNOWS people. In fact, at one point, she verbalizes that her experiences has taught her to really, truly, "know people".

I really enjoyed that too.

During the closing scene, when Streep has a breakdown, you can hear the music coming from the Christmas pagent, and .... wouldn't ya know it.... it was a secular Xmas song. One that Father Flynn thought was a good idea. It sort of implied that Father Flynn was there in spirit. And, much to the dismay of Streep, her little prison/school was becoming more progressive.

I like that layer very much. It implies that the characters in this movie have lives that will continue long after the credits roll.

Good stuff.



Also...
I agree with the budday who said that Steep's doubt was about that of a higher power. Her husband was killed in combat, the priests are touching the altar boys, parents are beating their own children, students are intolerant of other races..... etc etc. The "lord" sure does work in mysterious ways in her world. All her sacrifice was/is, seemingly, for nothing.

I like all the subtext you've pulled out of the movie.
Normally I wouldn't put that kind of work into an unproven director but since it's an acclaimed playwright adapting his own work, I say it's time well spent. Bravo, sir.

[thepaulo]

A bit late to the conversation but; I just saw this movie for the first time (2x, actually) and I got a lot out of it.

There are layers and subtleties in this film that made it enjoyable for me.

Sister James and Sister Aloyisuis (Streep) had a very interesting dynamic.
Sister James was more "open" and, she elected to wear her bonnet in a wide open fashion. Sister Streep was more focused and saw the world in a smaller way. And her bonnet was more focused. As if she had blinders on. But... the oldest nun was literally BLIND. She has almost no eyesight. As the movie moved forward.... each sister was growing older and becoming more and more "blind".

I really enjoyed that.


Also, there was a quick joke from Father Flynn during the scene where he's telling his male students about asking women to dance, and that it's okay if the woman says "no". You can just ask another girl to dance.
When a student asks "what happens if ALL the women say no?" He replies "well... then you become a Priest."
Perhaps that was an allusion to The Father being a homosexual. He was not very good with woman or perhaps he was shunned by them. Or what have you.
Sister Streep, of course, had no knowledge of The Father's bad luck with women but, as evidenced by complete and total grasp of that one student's fake nosebleed situation, she simply KNOWS people. In fact, at one point, she verbalizes that her experiences has taught her to really, truly, "know people".

I really enjoyed that too.

During the closing scene, when Streep has a breakdown, you can hear the music coming from the Christmas pagent, and .... wouldn't ya know it.... it was a secular Xmas song. One that Father Flynn thought was a good idea. It sort of implied that Father Flynn was there in spirit. And, much to the dismay of Streep, her little prison/school was becoming more progressive.

I like that layer very much. It implies that the characters in this movie have lives that will continue long after the credits roll.

Good stuff.



Also...
I agree with the budday who said that Steep's doubt was about that of a higher power. Her husband was killed in combat, the priests are touching the altar boys, parents are beating their own children, students are intolerant of other races..... etc etc. The "lord" sure does work in mysterious ways in her world. All her sacrifice was/is, seemingly, for nothing.

I like all the subtext you've pulled out of the movie.
Normally I wouldn't put that kind of work into an unproven director but since it's an acclaimed playwright adapting his own work, I say it's time well spent. Bravo, sir.

[fezident]

Hey thanks, PaulO.

[Death Metal Moe]

Paul O, is what you REALLY meant to say "Phillip is gonna Seymour Oscars on his mantle this year thanks to this movie! AAAAAAAAAAAA GE GE GE!!!"

[SP1!]

Saw it, thought it was great and if it was based on a play then it would have been more character driven with a thin script, plays are supposed to invoke feelings and its hard to capture that on screen. This film accomplished that beautifully.

I still think hoffman is a better actor than penn, capote just sealed it for me.

[fezident]

Amazingly... I just rewatched Synecdoche about two weeks ago... and that lead back to Doubt.
I own this movie and I've seen it several times but, with the passing of PSH... I somehow felt like the movie had a little more weight. I dunno. I guess you could say I was "mourning" a bit.


Whatever.


I loved Hoffman as an actor. I love almost all his choices. He would very often play things in an opposite manner. Where another actor would be outrageous or loud... PSH would be quite still and silent. But then... every once in a while he would yell or raise his voice... seemingly out of nowhere. I liked that too.

The guy was great.

[deliciousV]

I just told the wife ,a few days ago, that I wanted to see Doubt again. Mandatory now. Plus there are a few movies on Ron's list
That I need to check out.

[fezident]

I don't know if it's available on Netflix or OnDemand or whatever.
If you can't find it... lemme know. I'll happily rip it and upload it for you.

It's such a great movie with so much going on beneath the surface.

[deliciousV]

I don't know if it's available on Netflix or OnDemand or whatever.
If you can't find it... lemme know. I'll happily rip it and upload it for you.

It's such a great movie with so much going on beneath the surface.

That is too kind of you sir, but I have great bootlegging sources, I'll have it shortly. Thanks tho.

[cougarjake13]

Doubt ill see it

[deliciousV]

Doubt ill see it

your loss, great movie. I promise.

[jennysmurf]

Doubt ill see it

I see what you did there.

[cougarjake13]

I see what you did there.



See jenny got it

[deliciousV]

See jenny got it

DAMNIT!

[jennysmurf]

DAMNIT!

:tongue:

[deliciousV]

:tongue:

outsmarted by a chick again, that'd made this a Monday.

[jennysmurf]

outsmarted by a chick again, that'd made this a Monday.

I imagine it happens to you a lot, Monday or not. :happy:

[deliciousV]

I imagine it happens to you a lot, Monday or not. :happy:

well, it is almost Tuesday.

[sailor]

outsmarted by a chick again, that'd made this a Monday.

CJ13's a chick?!

[deliciousV]

CJ13's a chick?!

you're all chicks until proven otherwise

[sailor]

you're all chicks until proven otherwise

Seems a risky way to live your life.

[jennysmurf]

you're all chicks until proven otherwise

No wonder you're here all the time.

[cougarjake13]

CJ13's a chick?!

Negative

I think he meant that for jenny

[boobieman]

I fell a sleep during it...it was good but not the bible..now their is something..I don't know about you but when you beget and keep on begetting..WOW

I cried more when Mister Rogers died...and that was acting

SEYEYYAAAA

[sailor]

Negative

I think he meant that for jenny

Oh, literal jake.