Hard Candy - 3 years late

[foodcourtdruide]

I did a search and didn't find a topic regarding this movie, so I figured why not make one.

Caught this on cable late Sunday night and really wanted to discuss it, anyone else see it?

I thought it was average, definitely entertaining but not a very good film. The directing was a bit off, but the acting was good (especially from a young Ellen Page). Too many close-ups, too many loose-ends in the plot and too much of a message film. Page's character was supposed to be the consciousness of the molested, where the story failed was it tried to remain realistic while being completely unrealistic.

[Dougie Brootal]

i bought it on dvd right around the time juno was in theatres. i watched it and thought it was okay. my chick really liked it. fun little movie i guess.

[foodcourtdruide]

I bought it up because on the imdb message board, some users go on and on about how great the directing was and I really didn't see it. I thought the story had tons of plot holes and a lot of the shot choices made by the director were amateurish at best.

[Dougie Brootal]

I bought it up because on the imdb message board, some users go on and on about how great the directing was and I really didn't see it. I thought the story had tons of plot holes and a lot of the shot choices made by the director were amateurish at best.

i agree.


this has been point/same point featuring foodcourtdruide and east side doug!:tongue:

[Marc with a c]

i agree.


this has been point/same point featuring foodcourtdruide and east side doug!:tongue:

http://www.secsportsfan.com/images/doubles-tennis-team.jpg

[nate1000]

I saw this movie before Juno and it ruined Juno for me.

We get it, honey: you're oh so edgy. :thumbdown:

[fezident]

I saw this movie a few months after it was released and it bumped me the wrong way.

Ellen Page (who IS an amazing actress) was distracting. Her character was TOO smart, impossibly omniscent, and unrealistically calm & diobolical.
The ACTRESS was too old. Period. Ellen is/was too old to play that character and it showed. At that age... 3 years is a lot.

Also,
I hate "To Catch A Predator" because I see it as entrapment. Plain & simple.
The same can be said for this movie.
In fact... a lot of parallels can be drawn between HARD CANDY and To Catch A Predator. The entrapment factor aaaalmost makes you feel bad for the guy!
That's not to say that he's completely innocent. But in the show, and the movie, they put a lot of misguided energy into snaring these dudes. More often than not, I think it's overdone.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Also,
I hate "To Catch A Predator" because I see it as entrapment. Plain & simple.
The same can be said for this movie.
In fact... a lot of parallels can be drawn between HARD CANDY and To Catch A Predator. The entrapment factor aaaalmost makes you feel bad for the guy!
That's not to say that he's completely innocent. But in the show, and the movie, they put a lot of misguided energy into snaring these dudes. More often than not, I think it's overdone.

Well, in the movie the person doing the "entrapment" is actually under
18, she told him online that she was 14, he went to meet her and it was the 14 year old. How is that entrapment?

Sure, she took the law into her own hands and went too far, but I don't feel bad for the 32 year old at all (BTW: that guy is in the Watchmen movie, playing Nite Owl II!) Her fucked up actions do not negate his fucked up actions.

If there is anything to hate about "To Catch A Predator" it's that they are doing it for ratings not to protect kids. I don't buy the "entrapment" defense of the predators. Fuck that! Basically you are saying that it's wrong because they are lying to the predators and there is no kid there to have sex with? I would see it as entrapment if they had someone posing as an underage person going to them, knocking on their door trying to get inside their place to have sex. These people take it offline and actually show up to have sex with someone who said they are under 18.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i watched it, i remember thinking what a lot of you guys think, that it was "ok"

i thought of it more as a sexual fantasy for a submissive male. the humiliation and torture that young juno puts that guy through seems very common in S&M fantasies. Its like, the director wanted to make his own film to jerk off to, but wanted legitimacy too so he gave it all a point

[thepaulo]

I really didn't watch it that closely but I never got what her motivation was....did she ever say she was previously entrapped and abused? you assume she has a reason to go to this much trouble....but did she ever reveal much about herself?

[fezident]

Hey Doc.
Before I begin, please know that I am NOT saying these guys are innocent. Not at all. I do, however, think they are boxed into a situation that's been artificially created.
Meaning;
YES... they were trolling underage websites or whatever but, they aren't interacting with a true 13 year old girl. The person they are "talking" to is actually much much older and much more manipulative.
The undercover cops practically FORCE these guys into situations that, maybe, they didn't even want to get into.

The undercovers don't talk, act, or behave, like a true 13 year old. They know what an older pedophile wants to hear.... and then they go ahead and say it.

The predator says "I'd love to see a picture of your face so I know who I'm chattin' with".
The undercover cop sends a photo of little girl in a bathing suit.

The predator says "I would love to see a naughtier photo".
The cops respond "well, why don't you come to my house and take the picture yourself?"

etc etc

These guys are guilty of lesser crimes. Definitely, crimes... but... lesser ones than the ones they're being busted for.



Example:
You're going to a party.
You wanna bring a gram of coke.
You ask your friend if he knows a dealer.
You call the dealer and say, I wanna spend only $50.
He says, I don't have a car. But if you come to my place.... "I'll give you 300 dollars of blow for 100 bucks."
You say "that's more than I wanted to spend but... okay."
Ya get there and he says, "for $150, I'll give you the blow and 2 hits of X."
Then there's a cop waiting for you and you're arrested for trafficking or whatever.

I don't know the official rules or terms, but ... you see my point, no?
Suddenly, you're in a different sitch than you ever wanted to be in. You were wrong to get involved in the first place but, at every turn, you're getting set up for a bigger bust.



These dudes are troubled. No question.
But I bet that a large majority would never have taken their predilictions out of the matrix and into real life. They're coerced.

[Doctor Manhattan]

...YES... they were trolling underage websites or whatever but, they aren't interacting with a true 13 year old girl. The person they are "talking" to is actually much much older and much more manipulative.
The undercover cops practically FORCE these guys into situations that, maybe, they didn't even want to get into.

The undercovers don't talk, act, or behave, like a true 13 year old. They know what an older pedophile wants to hear.... and then they go ahead and say it.
...
But I bet that a large majority would never have taken their predilictions out of the matrix and into real life. They're coerced.

I agree that the undercover cops are liars. They are not being honest. I will give you that.

I do not think the pedos are being forced or boxed into a situation. They are presented with what they think is an opportunity to touch a kid. There is no forcing them to leave their computer and visit what they think is the home of the kid (who's parents are away, or whatever the fake situation is) Sure, the undercover cops are doing whatever they can to get the pedos to visit the fake underage kid, but they can't reach through the PC and put that pedo in his car. The pedo can stop himself before he logs off and jumps in his car. It's not the cops fault that the pedos are sometimes not very smart and don't recognize that it's not really a kid.

The undercover cops have to reach out to the pedos in order to capture them. You can't just sit there on a computer waiting for the pedos to reach you. You gotta give them the bait.

We are both online now and communicating with each other; there is NO WAY you can make me do something illegal on any level. You can give me a location where I would choose to do so.

[foodcourtdruide]

I really didn't watch it that closely but I never got what her motivation was....did she ever say she was previously entrapped and abused? you assume she has a reason to go to this much trouble....but did she ever reveal much about herself?

I thought she was supposed to be the supernatural conscience of molestation victims. She wasn't a real person, but more like a phantom that avenged pedophiles for their sins. I thought that was evident when she left only in a hood with a backpack, it seemed like she was an anonymous jane doe with no home and no identity. Also, she seemed to have superhuman intellect and strength.

[fezident]

Absolutely. You are correct.
That's why I keep saying "I don't think these guys are completely innocent". They're not.

But, the average level of sexuality for a 14 year old girl is different than that of a 20 year old undercover cop. And the cops work that angle like crrrazy.
If they feel like the pedo is about to log off, they keep 'em goin'.
If they feel like he smells a rat, they change their strategy and demeanor.
"Bait" is one thing. This is waaay more manipulative.


When the guy says "wow, I've never done anything like this before, I really don't wanna get arrested."
The undercover cop answers "I hook up online all the time. My last boyfriend was 26 and my parents didn't even punish me." (or whatever.)

Or
"Have you ever tried kissing a boy?"
and they answer "I love kissing but what I've always wanted to try is anal sex. All my friends are doing it and I don't wanna be the only one who hasn't. Would you be willing to teach me how to do it? There's only one catch though... ya can't tell anybody because I don't want my boyfriend to break up with me."

These exchanges have NOTHING in common with a real conversation. They don't unfold naturally.



I guess what I'm saying is;
the crime of LOOKING AND CHATTING with young girls on the internet is soooo insignificant, that the cops can't even arrest you for it. They have to set up something way more elaborate and THEN they can snare you.
They know where these dudes live. They could arrest 'em. But, instead... the cops do the whole "would you like some sweet tea" scenario.


Lemme say this before somebody else does;
NO... I wouldn't want my kid hanging out with these guys.


But.... I think a dude that wants to see pics of a girl is a LOT less dangerous than one that sits at a schoolyard and contemplates which kid to abduct. T.C.A.Predator doesn't really seem to make that distinction.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Absolutely. You are correct.
That's why I keep saying "I don't think these guys are completely innocent". They're not.

But, the average level of sexuality for a 14 year old girl is different than that of a 20 year old undercover cop. And the cops work that angle like crrrazy.
If they feel like the pedo is about to log off, they keep 'em goin'.
If they feel like he smells a rat, they change their strategy and demeanor.
"Bait" is one thing. This is waaay more manipulative.
...
But.... I think a dude that wants to see pics of a girl is a LOT less dangerous than one that sits at a schoolyard and contemplates which kid to abduct. T.C.A.Predator doesn't really seem to make that distinction.

I know that you aren't saying these guys are innocent.

Maybe I just don't have a problem with entrapment when it's clear that the person is doing something wrong, he's not just at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not like he's just walking around minding his own business and someone throws a 14 year old at them. Even if he's minding his own business online and someone starts a chat with him there is no one there to make him meet the person.

A dude who just wants to see pics of an underage girl is not what were are dealing with. That person would just insist that the undercover cop send him more pics. In this case the predator is going to some location to meet the girl/boy in person.

And even that person who only wants pictures is a problem, someone has to take the pictures in order for him to see them, so he is still connected attack on the kids.