Worst MLB Free Agent Contract?

[K.C.]

I can think of some good cases for each.

[jonyrotn]

Dodgers-Kevin Brown

[TeeBone]

It depends on who is asking the question---the player or the owner.

Barry Zito has been relegated to the fucking dugout and so far looks like shit. Do you think he cares at the price he is being paid?

[Doogie]

To think the Mets almost bought that bum, Zito, to Shea...Scott Boras could sell souls to the devil.

[led37zep]

As a giants fan I will vote for that Zito contract over anything else.

I was at opening day this year and the dude was already getting booed.

[underdog]

It has to be Zito because almost EVERYONE could see how bad he was going to become when the deal was signed.

[Crippler]

Dodgers-Kevin Brown

This was the first thing that came to my mind, but I might be a bit biased considering the last two years of that contract he was paid $15+ million per year by the Yankees & won less than 15 games in those two years. Not to mention the 5+ ERA, etc.

To think the Mets almost bought that bum, Zito, to Shea...Scott Boras could sell souls to the devil.

Silly Goose, don't you know Scott Boras is the Devil?!

[underdog]

To think the Mets almost bought that bum, Zito, to Shea...Scott Boras could sell souls to the devil.

This brings up something else that bugs me, why do we side with management in sports? When an agent tries to get the player as much money as possible, the player is greedy and the agent is evil. Aren't we supposed to be on the side of the working man? I would want my agent to get me as much money as possible, too.

[Doogie]

This brings up something else that bugs me, why do we side with management in sports? When an agent tries to get the player as much money as possible, the player is greedy and the agent is evil. Aren't we supposed to be on the side of the working man? I would want my agent to get me as much money as possible, too.

Whoooa...I am not saying "yay owners", but the fact of the matter is some bums get the good contracts, while the more deserving players dont. I dont know about you, but I would pay more money for a Rollins, A-Rod or Santana over a Zito, McGriff or other over-rated player. Yay for the big contracts for working guys, but where is the limit on the bums?

[King Hippos Bandaid]

there are some doozies


I am gonna go with the current Barry Zito Deal

the Giants have 2 gr8 starters, that Zito Money could have bolstered up the offense and maybe the Giants could have been more competitive

[Crippler]

In general I am usually on the side of the player to get what's coming to them, but in a handful of cases (and oddly enough Boras seems to be the common factor), I've found myself saying, "When is enough enough?"

My problem with Boras is that while he does seem to get great deals for his clients, he often does it at the expense of the intangibles. He was hours from delivering Bernie Williams to Boston because the Sawx offered a few more sheckles than the Yankees, the team that had been his "family" from the age of 15 or 16. Everyone, including Bernie, knew he was going to get more than he deserved for turning in a batting title & being an impotant cog in a World Series machine in his walk year, and that he would clearly not be worth even close to what he would get paid by the end of the deal.

Here's the part where Boras turns into a scumbag. Everyone knows Bernie was a "soft" human being, going all the way back to rumors that guys like Mel Hall were shipped out of town early in his career because they busted Bernie's balls & he couldn't take the ribbing. Did his manager really think Bernie could take the hate that would have been heaped on him in the middle of the biggest rivalry in sports?

In Boston, no less, where underperforming players are run out of town by their own fans? All it would have taken would have been one stereotypical slow Bernie April & the Boston fans would have given him a nervous breakdown. For what, an extra $500,000?! Maybe if you're Joe Lunchbox that's a big deal, but would the difference between $12.0 million & $12.5 million be worth the aggravation?

Just my 2¢.

[Ogre]

I would have to say Zito. Some of the others on the list had a little production before the wheels came off. I think Joey Belle is still pulling a check from the Orioles. 60 HR at 1.1 million per ($ 65 million contract with the Orioles.) I think I saw where Zito is 11-19 since the deal. That is going to be a disgustingly high cost per win.

I was wondering if you will see more and more pitchers losing thier velocity at a younger age now that steriods and enhancers are not such a secret.

[Bulldogcakes]

I'd say its between Hampton and Pavano. Belle gave the O's two pretty good years for their money, Vaughan had 2 good years with the Angels and one decent year for the Mets. Darren Dreifort was awful, but at least he showed up for 3 of the 5 years. Chan Ho Park appeared in 134 games over the course of his deal. Not effectively, but at least he pitched. Brown wasn't that bad, 58-32 in his 5 years in LA pitching 3 full seasons and 2 partial. Zito has at least showed up for work, however ineffective he's been.

Hampton and Pavano didn't even get that far. Hampton missed all of 2006, 2007 and has yet to pitch in 2008. Pavano made a grand total of 17 starts in 2005 and 2 starts in 2007.

Since Hampton's contract is 3 times bigger than Pavano's, I'll give the nod to Hampton as the worst contract ever. The Rockies were reported to have ate half of it just to get rid of him.

[TheMojoPin]

How is Soriano not on there?

That contract is beyond moronic. You might as just burn that money for the last 3-4 years of that deal.

[JPMNICK]

yuo can not say zito because he still has a lot of time to turn it around

where fucking carl pavano has stolen money for the entire length of the contact. maybe this is my yankee fan bias coming through, but he is the worst one. his contract is ending, and he did nothing the entire length of that contract

[JPMNICK]

How is Soriano not on there?

That contract is beyond moronic. You might as just burn that money for the last 3-4 years of that deal.

what is his contract and how is it structured?

[TheGameHHH]

It's a pitchers contract no matter what, committing 7 or 8 years to a pitcher is absolutely insane (possibly with the exception of Johan, it can be argued either way). Mike Hampton and Barry Zito are the top 2 in my mind, with the nod going to Zito because I hate him more. He's literally stealing 120 something odd million from the Giants.

[TheGameHHH]

yuo can not say zito because he still has a lot of time to turn it around

where fucking carl pavano has stolen money for the entire length of the contact. maybe this is my yankee fan bias coming through, but he is the worst one. his contract is ending, and he did nothing the entire length of that contract

40 million compared to 120 million makes Zito's contract much worse as well as four years compared to 7 years. He was in decline his last year in Oakland, so if you believe he's turning it around you're crazy.

[TheMojoPin]

what is his contract and how is it structured?

Voila:

The breakdown of Alfonso Soriano’s eight-year, $136 million contract with the Cubs: $8 million signing bonus, $9 million in 2007, $13 million in ‘08, $16 million in ‘09 and $18 million per season from '10 to ‘14.

Sooooo stupid. Anything that backloaded for a player as old as he already is and as gimmicky as he is stinks.

This contract has to "win."

[K.C.]

I'd say its between Hampton and Pavano. Belle gave the O's two pretty good years for their money, Vaughan had 2 good years with the Angels and one decent year for the Mets. Darren Dreifort was awful, but at least he showed up for 3 of the 5 years. Chan Ho Park appeared in 134 games over the course of his deal. Not effectively, but at least he pitched. Brown wasn't that bad, 58-32 in his 5 years in LA pitching 3 full seasons and 2 partial. Zito has at least showed up for work, however ineffective he's been.

Hampton and Pavano didn't even get that far. Hampton missed all of 2006, 2007 and has yet to pitch in 2008. Pavano made a grand total of 17 starts in 2005 and 2 starts in 2007.

Since Hampton's contract is 3 times bigger than Pavano's, I'll give the nod to Hampton as the worst contract ever. The Rockies were reported to have ate half of it just to get rid of him.

I would say Pavano's was worse than Hampton's.

Hampton was 53-48 over the first five years of his contract, and then missed two.

Pavano will have likely missed 3 1/2 years of his four year contract at the end of this season and had a 5-6 record.

Hampton's contract comes to about $15 mil per year...Pavano's to $10 mil per year.

I'd take Hampton at $15 mil over Pavano at $10 mil

[K.C.]

40 million compared to 120 million makes Zito's contract much worse as well as four years compared to 7 years. He was in decline his last year in Oakland, so if you believe he's turning it around you're crazy.

I haven't seen a lot of Zito...if it's mechanics, he can turn it around. If he has something physcially wrong with him, he's in trouble.

If I had to guess is Zito's ending up on the DL for at least a full season with either shoulder surgery or Tommy John as soon as this season.

[JPMNICK]

Voila:



Sooooo stupid. Anything that backloaded for a player as old as he already is and as gimmicky as he is stinks.

This contract has to "win."

yea that is a strong case, but he can still turn it around and have a great few years. this question can not be answered fully until all contracts are done. what if in his last year soriano is the league MVP and leads them to a world series, then would he be worth it?

[JPMNICK]

I would say Pavano's was worse than Hampton's.

Hampton was 53-48 over the first five years of his contract, and then missed two.

Pavano will have likely missed 3 1/2 years of his four year contract at the end of this season and had a 5-6 record.

Hampton's contract comes to about $15 mil per year...Pavano's to $10 mil per year.

I'd take Hampton at $15 mil over Pavano at $10 mil

i agree, he contributed NOTHING in his time as a yankee

[TheMojoPin]

yea that is a strong case, but he can still turn it around and have a great few years. this question can not be answered fully until all contracts are done. what if in his last year soriano is the league MVP and leads them to a world series, then would he be worth it?

Given how old he'll be at the time, that seems highly unlikely.

[K.C.]

Voila:



Sooooo stupid. Anything that backloaded for a player as old as he already is and as gimmicky as he is stinks.

This contract has to "win."

It has the potential to be a bad one, but I wouldn't quite throw it in yet.

Soriano had a good season last year...we'll see how this season turns out.

[TheMojoPin]

It has the potential to be a bad one, but I wouldn't quite throw it in yet.

Soriano had a good season last year...we'll see how this season turns out.

I fully expect him to have a very good year this year, and probably the next couple of seasons, but the last 3-4 are going to be varying degrees of brutal given how much he'll cost and how limited his approach is.

[K.C.]

i agree, he contributed NOTHING in his time as a yankee

I guess the biggest argument for Hampton over Pavano could be that the Rockies were more invested in Hampton (and subsequently the Braves) than the Yankees in Pavano.

If I had to rate them:

#1 - Barry Zito (11-19; already demoted to the bullpen less than one and a quarter years into a seven year deal)

#2 - Carl Pavano (5-6 in four years...missed three and a half seasons at $10 mil a pop)

#3 - Darren Dreifort (missed three full season...only made 26 starts in a five year contract)

#4 - Chan Ho Park (32-33 in five season, only cracked 150 innings once (including missing most of '03 and half of '04.) ERA near 5 during length of the contract)

#5 - Mike Hampton (53-48 at $15 mil per season...missed two and a half full season)

#6 - Albert Belle (two productive years...missed three full years)

#7 - Mo Vaughn (missed close to three years on a six year deal, but had two pretty good years in Anaheim)

#8 - Greg Vaughn (largest contract in D-Rays history...two average years, two horrific years)

[Bulldogcakes]

I would say Pavano's was worse than Hampton's.

Hampton was 53-48 over the first five years of his contract, and then missed two.

Pavano will have likely missed 3 1/2 years of his four year contract at the end of this season and had a 5-6 record.

Hampton's contract comes to about $15 mil per year...Pavano's to $10 mil per year.

I'd take Hampton at $15 mil over Pavano at $10 mil


I know Hampton did pitch pretty well in the middle of the deal, but that was with the Braves. From the Rockies perspective, who are the ones who signed Hampton, they got 2 awful years and then ate about 40 mil. Which was the entire amount of the Pavano deal. The numbers were just so much bigger with the Hampton deal.

Zito may still be worse than Hampton, but its only the second year of his deal.

[Bossanova]

Zito is worse because he isnt going to be good out of the pen. He doesnt have the stuff to put people away. He is a starter only, and has like 10 wins in a year and six starts. I say he is done after next year

[K.C.]

Zito is worse because he isnt going to be good out of the pen. He doesnt have the stuff to put people away. He is a starter only, and has like 10 wins in a year and six starts. I say he is done after next year

A guy named Paul Nyman is doing an interesting series on of articles for The Hardball Times focusing on Zito.

Basically he's said so far that Zito's problem is mechanical in that he never learned how to properly pitch a baseball to begin with.

He has always topped out around 88 or 89 MPH, because of how he was taught to throw as a youngster and a prospect, and had success because it was just enough to offset a devastating curve (in addition to the built in advantage left-handers have over right-handers).

His mechanics have gradually gotten worse, but it's not entirely a body motion thing...it's a lack of understanding of how his muscle should be working in unison in a pitching motion, which is why he's never been able to top 90 MPH to begin with.

This guy doesn't seem to think Zito will ever be able to fix it.


Neither do the Giants. Their plan is basically to make him into a 30 year old Jamie Moyer and hope he can pitch around the light fastball by adjusting his speed properly.

[cougarjake13]

man i cant beleive so many people voted for zito

its only year 2 of the contract, too much time left to call it the worst

what if he turns it around ??

my vote would be for mike hampton, mo vaughn, or carl pavano

due to their injuries those teams got shit from those players

[TheMojoPin]

I would have thought Belle would have gotten more votes. Granted, when he signed it, it seemed fine, but it ended up being a complete joke. The Orioles basically paid him top shelf money for 3 years to do absolutely nothing except stalk women.

[K.C.]

I would have thought Belle would have gotten more votes. Granted, when he signed it, it seemed fine, but it ended up being a complete joke. The Orioles basically paid him top shelf money for 3 years to do absolutely nothing except stalk women.

Belle, Sosa, and Javy Lopez were the ruination of that Orioles franchise.

[jonyrotn]

I would have thought Belle would have gotten more votes. Granted, when he signed it, it seemed fine, but it ended up being a complete joke. The Orioles basically paid him top shelf money for 3 years to do absolutely nothing except stalk women.I guess I"m the only one who voted for Belle..I"m sure it's because the money is not as crazy as Zito's but at the time it was an awful lot of money just to sit home and bitch about white people...

[jonyrotn]

A guy named Paul Nyman is doing an interesting series on of articles for The Hardball Times focusing on Zito.

Basically he's said so far that Zito's problem is mechanical in that he never learned how to properly pitch a baseball to begin with.

He has always topped out around 88 or 89 MPH, because of how he was taught to throw as a youngster and a prospect, and had success because it was just enough to offset a devastating curve (in addition to the built in advantage left-handers have over right-handers).

His mechanics have gradually gotten worse, but it's not entirely a body motion thing...it's a lack of understanding of how his muscle should be working in unison in a pitching motion, which is why he's never been able to top 90 MPH to begin with.

This guy doesn't seem to think Zito will ever be able to fix it.


Neither do the Giants. Their plan is basically to make him into a 30 year old Jamie Moyer and hope he can pitch around the light fastball by adjusting his speed properly.Muscle memory in baseball is more imporant then most people know..Once your muscles remember the wrong way to do something it is very hard to break that memory and reteach those muscles to act in a different manner..
Zito's 12 to 6 breaking ball is truly nasty..I faced David Wells as a young man and his curve ball almost broke my neck, so I can't imagine what Zito's must look like..His problem is, not being able to throw the junk for strikes..Once he is behind in the count the batters are sitting on his 85 mph fastball..Belive me if you know it's coming anyone who plays baseball can hit that pitch like it's sitting on a tee..

EDIT: In a later at bat I hit a homerun off of David Wells with Tino Matinez's bat..Just wanted to set the record straight..Fuck that fat bastard..Do chicks still dig the long ball?

[TheGameHHH]

Muscle memory in baseball is more imporant then most people know..Once your muscles remember the wrong way to do something it is very hard to break that memory and reteach those muscles to act in a different manner..
Zito's 12 to 6 breaking ball is truly nasty..I faced David Wells as a young man and his curve ball almost broke my neck, so I can't imagine what Zito's must look like..His problem is, not being able to throw the junk for strikes..Once he is behind in the count the batters are sitting on his 85 mph fastball..Belive me if you know it's coming anyone who plays baseball can hit that pitch like it's sitting on a tee..

even though youre a dirty red sox fan, thats an excellent analysis on zito and muscle memory. I've legitimately had a hard-on for Zito's curve since I first saw it, but its the only pitch he has true command over. bottom line: he's f'd.

[furie]

i don't think the money was a bad deal, it's the 7 years. A lot can happen in 7 years with athletes, it's just too risky.

[TheGameHHH]

i don't think the money was a bad deal, it's the 7 years. A lot can happen in 7 years with athletes, it's just too risky.

Yea, i thought the same thing with this current football off-season. asante samuel and deangelo hall both signing for 7 years seemed quite excessive to me but giving that amount to a pitcher seemed even more insane. that compounded with the money is why i hate zito's the most

[cougarjake13]

im just happy as hell the mets didnt sign him

[epo]

I still think it all went to hell when Steinbrenner gave Spike Owen a million per year for 3 years in 1992.

[ralphbxny]

Pavano. Anyone who signs a contract for that much money and only has 5 more wins than I do during the length of the contract...and isnt a reliever...fucked up!

[K.C.]

Muscle memory in baseball is more imporant then most people know..Once your muscles remember the wrong way to do something it is very hard to break that memory and reteach those muscles to act in a different manner..
Zito's 12 to 6 breaking ball is truly nasty..I faced David Wells as a young man and his curve ball almost broke my neck, so I can't imagine what Zito's must look like..His problem is, not being able to throw the junk for strikes..Once he is behind in the count the batters are sitting on his 85 mph fastball..Belive me if you know it's coming anyone who plays baseball can hit that pitch like it's sitting on a tee..


Exactly...Zito could get away with an 89 MPH fastballl offsetting that curve.

Down around 81-82, though...guys are just sitting on it. You can't throw a curve ball 10 pitches in a row (unless you're Brett Myers). He HAS to throw the fastball.

And there aren't too many major leaguers who won't hit a low-to-mid 80s fastball if they're sitting on it.


He looks like he's screwed, unless he can learn how to throw some new pitches, because he won't regain the velocity on his fastball.

[underdog]

EDIT: In a later at bat I hit a homerun off of David Wells with Tino Matinez's bat..Just wanted to set the record straight..Fuck that fat bastard..Do chicks still dig the long ball?

Chicks might not (they do), but I do, sunshine. :wub:

[Snacks]

Exactly...Zito could get away with an 89 MPH fastballl offsetting that curve.

Down around 81-82, though...guys are just sitting on it. You can't throw a curve ball 10 pitches in a row (unless you're Brett Myers). He HAS to throw the fastball.

And there aren't too many major leaguers who won't hit a low-to-mid 80s fastball if they're sitting on it.


He looks like he's screwed, unless he can learn how to throw some new pitches, because he won't regain the velocity on his fastball.

zito is far from screwed. baseball contracts are guaranteed, the team is screwed.

[A.J.]

Don Gullett.

[foodcourtdruide]

I remember when the Yankees signed Pavano and Wright. Those were both terrible acquisitions, especially with the Red Sox acquiring Beckett.

I think the Zito deal was pretty bad, but time will tell. If Zito can become an effective bullpen guy or the Giants can dump him in a positive way it may not destroy the organization the way Albert Belle or Chan Ho Park destroyed theirs.

I have to go with Belle. That guy KILLED the Orioles for handcuffed them financially for a long time. Park would be second, but I remember screaming bloody murder when the Rangers gave that much money to a decent pitcher with a bad back.

[Freakshow]

Belle, Sosa, and Javy Lopez were the ruination of that Orioles franchise.

I'd say Albert Belle and Will Clark were the ruination of the O's. By the time those other two got here, the team had been junk for years. You can't ruin what's already junk.

[badorties]

as a fan ... the two worst free agent signings were the yankees not signing david ortiz, and going after gary shefield instead of vladimir guerrero a year later

signing damon, giambi, kevin brown, clemens, jared wright, carl pavano, & contreras were all colossus mistakes that will haunt for a long time

[Snacks]

I remember when the Yankees signed Pavano and Wright. Those were both terrible acquisitions, especially with the Red Sox acquiring Beckett.

I think the Zito deal was pretty bad, but time will tell. If Zito can become an effective bullpen guy or the Giants can dump him in a positive way it may not destroy the organization the way Albert Belle or Chan Ho Park destroyed theirs.

I have to go with Belle. That guy KILLED the Orioles for handcuffed them financially for a long time. Park would be second, but I remember screaming bloody murder when the Rangers gave that much money to a decent pitcher with a bad back.

belle played for 2 years and was still one of the best hitters in baseball. he also had a smaller contract then zito, not to mention a pticher only pitches 35 games a year. in 7 years zito will have pitched about 250 games, belle played more then that. there is no way to get rid of zito and not hurt the team and if he becomes the best relif pitcher ever hes still not worth 18 million a year. SF is getting killed because they threw that money away and could have spent it on 2 0r 3 future free agents now they are straped. everyone said that SF was hurting the team because bonds made so much money. now they are back in the same siuation with no production for that money.

[Earlshog]

belle played for 2 years and was still one of the best hitters in baseball. he also had a smaller contract then zito, not to mention a pticher only pitches 35 games a year. in 7 years zito will have pitched about 250 games, belle played more then that. there is no way to get rid of zito and not hurt the team and if he becomes the best relif pitcher ever hes still not worth 18 million a year. SF is getting killed because they threw that money away and could have spent it on 2 0r 3 future free agents now they are straped. everyone said that SF was hurting the team because bonds made so much money. now they are back in the same siuation with no production for that money.


Did the Oriiles get insurance money back for Belle?

[foodcourtdruide]

as a fan ... the two worst free agent signings were the yankees not signing david ortiz, and going after gary shefield instead of vladimir guerrero a year later

signing damon, giambi, kevin brown, clemens, jared wright, carl pavano, & contreras were all colossus mistakes that will haunt for a long time

I don't agree wtih Brown, Giambi and Contreras. I think Giambi gave you a few really good seasons and Contreras was a good pitcher, that was simply mishandled by the Yankees. Brown had a decent year, then sucked, but remember Brown coming here got rid of Weaver and his contract. Giambi has had two 41 HR seasons and 2 30+ HR seasons with the Yankees. He's had a couple injury plagued years, but overall I wouldn't call his signing a massive failure, but a minor one.

The second signing of Clemens was a disaster and I agree on Pavano and Wright. Damon is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. He's mediocare at best at in the outfield and for a leadoff hitter he doesn't get on base much and isn't all that fast around the bases. I agree, stupid signing by the Yankees.

[foodcourtdruide]

belle played for 2 years and was still one of the best hitters in baseball. he also had a smaller contract then zito, not to mention a pticher only pitches 35 games a year. in 7 years zito will have pitched about 250 games, belle played more then that. there is no way to get rid of zito and not hurt the team and if he becomes the best relif pitcher ever hes still not worth 18 million a year. SF is getting killed because they threw that money away and could have spent it on 2 0r 3 future free agents now they are straped. everyone said that SF was hurting the team because bonds made so much money. now they are back in the same siuation with no production for that money.

He had one year with the Orioles where I would have considered him one of the best hitters in baseball, his second was good, but no where near the top 10 (.816 OPS for a power hitter?). His contract was smaller than Zito's, but if you recall at the time it was a HUGE contract.

You're comparing the value of a pitcher to the value of a hitter. I think that's a pretty complex argument and is really off-topic. Money is money and expectations are expectations, Belle completely handcuffed the Orioles by falling flat on both.

Zito sucks right now, but he's only 2 years into his contract. A great relief pitcher may not be worth $18 million a year within the next few years, but it may get close. Starters are pitching less innings and the values of setup men and middle relievers are going to sky rocket. I think the Zito signing is and was terrible, but you simply can't make the claim it's the worst free agent signing until you see how he turns out.

And your argument about money being thrown at an unproductive player making it impossible for the team to get productive players can be made for almost everyone on that list.

When Zito's contract is done, if he's produced nothing more than being a middle reliever with an ERA around 5 I'll agree wtih you.

[K.C.]

I'd say Albert Belle and Will Clark were the ruination of the O's. By the time those other two got here, the team had been junk for years. You can't ruin what's already junk.

Yeah, but they went from bad to abysmal with absolutely no hope by the time Sosa and Lopez arrived on the scene.

[Snacks]

Did the Oriiles get insurance money back for Belle?

i forgot about that. thanks

He had one year with the Orioles where I would have considered him one of the best hitters in baseball, his second was good, but no where near the top 10 (.816 OPS for a power hitter?). His contract was smaller than Zito's, but if you recall at the time it was a HUGE contract.

You're comparing the value of a pitcher to the value of a hitter. I think that's a pretty complex argument and is really off-topic. Money is money and expectations are expectations, Belle completely handcuffed the Orioles by falling flat on both.

Zito sucks right now, but he's only 2 years into his contract. A great relief pitcher may not be worth $18 million a year within the next few years, but it may get close. Starters are pitching less innings and the values of setup men and middle relievers are going to sky rocket. I think the Zito signing is and was terrible, but you simply can't make the claim it's the worst free agent signing until you see how he turns out.

And your argument about money being thrown at an unproductive player making it impossible for the team to get productive players can be made for almost everyone on that list.

When Zito's contract is done, if he's produced nothing more than being a middle reliever with an ERA around 5 I'll agree wtih you.

as stated above, if the baltimore was smart like a lot of teams do with their high priced player they would have an insurance policy to cover some of their loses. a bad player that isnt hurt does no good.

no matter how great a reliver is and no matter how much starters get there will never be a $10 million dollar who is signed as reliever (not closer). and we are talking about an average of 18 million per year. this is only the start of the 2nd year. they have this year and 5 more years to pay him. his contract also goes up in money so next year he will be around 20 mil.

the only thing that may save zito is he is a lefty. but once again at 18 mil a year no one is trading for him.

[foodcourtdruide]

i forgot about that. thanks



as stated above, if the baltimore was smart like a lot of teams do with their high priced player they would have an insurance policy to cover some of their loses. a bad player that isnt hurt does no good.

no matter how great a reliver is and no matter how much starters get there will never be a $10 million dollar who is signed as reliever (not closer). and we are talking about an average of 18 million per year. this is only the start of the 2nd year. they have this year and 5 more years to pay him. his contract also goes up in money so next year he will be around 20 mil.

the only thing that may save zito is he is a lefty. but once again at 18 mil a year no one is trading for him.

The reason I didn't include Mo Vaughn was because I remembered the Mets got a lot of insurance money for him. I'm not sure about Belle though, anyone know?

I totally disagree with your $10 million mark and I don't know why it's impossible to consider that Zito would be a closer. Look at Joba Chamberlain. His value to the Yankees right now as a set-up man outweighs the risk of turning him into a valued starter. Would you have said that about anyone 10 years ago? The value of relievers is sky rocketing. Farnsworth had a 3-year $17 million contract as a non-closer reliever 3 years ago. A great reliever making $10 million a year within the next 5 years is more likely than not.

I don't think the Zito contract will ever be a good contract. Even if he pitched to potential I think it would be a bad contract, however if we're arguing which MLB contract has been the worst how could you include Zito when you don't know what he'll do for the next 5 years.

Do you think if Zito just had 2 bad years, and lives up to potential for the last 5 years of his contract he'd be as destructive to the Giants as Park was to the Rangers? We have no idea how Zito will pitch for the next 5 years, so how could we say it's worse?

[Kevin]

The reason I didn't include Mo Vaughn was because I remembered the Mets got a lot of insurance money for him. I'm not sure about Belle though, anyone know?

I totally disagree with your $10 million mark and I don't know why it's impossible to consider that Zito would be a closer. Look at Joba Chamberlain. His value to the Yankees right now as a set-up man outweighs the risk of turning him into a valued starter. Would you have said that about anyone 10 years ago? The value of relievers is sky rocketing. Farnsworth had a 3-year $17 million contract as a non-closer reliever 3 years ago. A great reliever making $10 million a year within the next 5 years is more likely than not.

I don't think the Zito contract will ever be a good contract. Even if he pitched to potential I think it would be a bad contract, however if we're arguing which MLB contract has been the worst how could you include Zito when you don't know what he'll do for the next 5 years.

Do you think if Zito just had 2 bad years, and lives up to potential for the last 5 years of his contract he'd be as destructive to the Giants as Park was to the Rangers? We have no idea how Zito will pitch for the next 5 years, so how could we say it's worse?

I am not sure if it was insured but the funniest part about the Belle thing was after stealing i think about 80mil of the O's money. He sued them for the meal money he was not getting which amounted to a few thousand. And he won the case. I would have liked to have been there when Angelos made that check.

[Freakshow]

Yeah, but they went from bad to abysmal with absolutely no hope by the time Sosa and Lopez arrived on the scene.

Javy Lopez hit .316 with 23 homers in '05 (I know it ended badly the next year, but it was more of a 'meh' when it happened). He was not spectacular be he wasn't completely useless like Will Clark. They actually won 78 games in '04 and 74 in '05. The abysmal years were '01 and '02--63 and 67 games in those years. And the Will Clark thing was they let Palmeiro go and signed Clark, and Palmeiro contintued to hit close to 40 HRs and 110 RBI every year he was in Texas...

[Knowledged_one]

The orioles got substantial money back from Albert Belle in the deal because of insurance which is why they carried him on the roster for all of those years after he stopped playing

The Orioles should have let the Yankees sign Brady Anderson that offseason for the 5 year $65mil they were offering that same offseason

And Pavano is the worst deal - the yankees have basically paid him 8 million for each win

[underdog]

as a fan ... the two worst free agent signings were the yankees not signing david ortiz

What?

David Ortiz was a nobody when the Sox signed him. He rode the bench, behind former Red Sox great Jeremy Giambi. The only reason he ever got playing time was because the Sox traded away Shea Hillenbrand.

[Knowledged_one]

Ortiz hardly a nobody, maybe a midling player but his last year in Min he hit .272 with 20 HR and a .500 Slugging %

[badorties]

What?

David Ortiz was a nobody when the Sox signed him. He rode the bench, behind former Red Sox great Jeremy Giambi. The only reason he ever got playing time was because the Sox traded away Shea Hillenbrand.

stienbrenner lobbied hard, but cashman won out ... and for the damage inflicted up the yanks, it was a horrible move

[underdog]

Ortiz hardly a nobody, maybe a midling player but his last year in Min he hit .272 with 20 HR and a .500 Slugging %

And there was so little action on his free agency that he signed with the Sox to ride the bench. That was after Minnesota tried trading him and no one wanted him. So they just cut him.

[jonyrotn]

The Bobby Bonillia contract given by the Mets was pretty bad also..
And The Yanks fucked up with Black Jack McDonald too..

[Knowledged_one]

The Bobby Bonillia contract given by the Mets was pretty bad also..
And The Yanks fucked up with Black Jack McDonald too..

or black jack mcdowell

[jonyrotn]

<p>or black jack mcdowell</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
Him too...

[Snacks]

stienbrenner lobbied hard, but cashman won out ... and for the damage inflicted up the yanks, it was a horrible move

if cashman doesnt get fired i will be shocked. its like detroit lions and matt millen they both deserve to get fired and never do. cashman (imo) has done nothing to build any of the chamionship teams but when he has had the chance to do something he fucked up. 2 fuck ups come to mind immeditley ortiz and santana. 2 times he talked the boss out of something. and i can only imagine how many more times he has screwed up a trade or signing the wrong guy.