Shock collar, anyone?

[LaBoob]

My dog has some serious fear aggression. I adopted her and she was most likely abused in her life prior to meeting me. She's extremely protective of me and as long as I'm around she's crazy when a stranger approaches or talks to me.
She has very few people in her life that she will tolerate, like my sister, a few guys I dated, she LOVES my mom, some others... A friend of mine, knowing all this, wanted to meet her anyway. I prepared this girl by letting her know, when you meet her, Stasha WILL jump up and bark in your face. She WILL put her mouth on your arm, not to bite, but mostly just to be super aggressive. Make no sudden moves. Don't stretch, don't yawn, don't get up and go to the bathroom. Normally Stasha senses when someone's a dog person and isn't going to take her shit. That's what made her instantly love my mom. Something in her just sensed that if she bit her or messed with her my mother was most likely going to boot her in the ass. She also senses when someone's scared of her and she walks all over them.
When this girl came over Stasha immediately attacked her. She didn't give the girl a chance to show she wasn't scared of the dog, she just went right for her and grabbed her coat in her mouth and was ripping it back and forth like she'd been trained to do that. She also bit the girl's hand and broke the skin. The girl was so completely and totally cool about it...no lawsuits in my future. In hindsight I should've let the girl come in, settle down on the couch and then brought Stasha out on a leash and set her down away from the girl and get them both to relax. I just opened the door and let her go. Stupid.
It made me realize that I can't just shove my dog in the basement for the rest of her life when someone comes over. I have to stand up and address this issue right now. I'm experienced with training dogs, we've gone to Feisty Fidos classes, and my dog is extremely intelligent. It's an extreme situation and this girl suggested a somewhat extreme solution...shock collar. I wonder if anybody here has any experience with shock collars, or if anybody has some advice for me?

I've heard tons of advice, and most people really underestimate the intensity of this dog and the situation. I'm dedicated to giving this dog a wonderful life. She deserves it because deep down she is a great spirit. If I have to I will put her in the basement, but I wonder if, once and for all, I can break through...

[JPMNICK]

I owned a 185 pound bullmastiff that was just HUGE. when I got him the breeder made me sign a contract that I would get him professionally trained. The trained came over, and suggested the shock collar. AT the time i thought it seemed a bit cruel and extreme, but after a few times if the dog is semi-smart, you barely have to use it. If done properly, it is a GREAT tool to train an unruly dog. I started my dog on it when he was a puppy (well like 8 months old but he was 100 pounds already) and by 10 months he would have it on and I did not even have to use the remote control.

it is safe for the dog, much safer then letting him be a maniac and biting people. Because all it takes is that one time for him to bite, someone to pull away to quick and either need stitches or worse. It is a liability for you and dangerous for everyone else.

[Chigworthy]

I've tried our dogs' shock collars on myself, and they aren't that bad. I kind of liked it.

[LaBoob]

I do fear that my dog will learn to power through it. She's pretty crazy when she gets scared. Do you think that's a possibility?

[Chigworthy]

I reread your post, and I don't think that shock collars are effective for dealing with fear aggression. If you plan on keeping the dog, you definitely need to get some professional advice and evaluation. We had to put a dog down because of it's fear aggression. It was horrible, but a very experienced dog-aggression trainer (ex Israeli Army K9) demonstrated how dangerous the dog could be, and we made the decision to euthanize rather than deal with human injury or death in the future.

[LaBoob]

If it comes down to it I would rather keep her in seclusion and only let people she's already established a good relationship with around her. I've done a really good job of keeping her away from people and keeping people safe. The only reason she bit this girl is because I allowed them to interact. When I walk her I'm constantly on the look out for dangerous situations and frankly don't walk her that often because it's very stressful for me, not relaxing at all.

If she didn't have any sweet side to her I would agree with you... but she's very sweet and sensitive and if I put her down I simply would NEVER EVER get over it. I just wouldn't be able to handle that. You'd have to strap me down to get that dog away from me.

[Dude!]

so your dog is female too

lesbian

[JPMNICK]

If it comes down to it I would rather keep her in seclusion and only let people she's already established a good relationship with around her. I've done a really good job of keeping her away from people and keeping people safe. The only reason she bit this girl is because I allowed them to interact. When I walk her I'm constantly on the look out for dangerous situations and frankly don't walk her that often because it's very stressful for me, not relaxing at all.

If she didn't have any sweet side to her I would agree with you... but she's very sweet and sensitive and if I put her down I simply would NEVER EVER get over it. I just wouldn't be able to handle that. You'd have to strap me down to get that dog away from me.

to me this sounds like the perfect situation for the shock collar. As I said, if used properly you will have good results with it, especially with a smart dog. If you have any questions you can PM me

[spainlinx0]

First of all check out the Dog Whisperer on National Geographic. Very good advice especially about dealing with dogs who have fear aggression. Unfortunately, a dog who lashes out from fear, rather than pure aggression is much harder to repair psychologically.

If you want to get better control of your dog give Chris a call at Stronghaus.com. He helped me with my dog, and really showed how to keep a dog under control. He will help you keep better control of your dog if you listen to what he says. It was I think 75 bucks, and he was able to walk my dog around kids, people, bikes, everything he was scared of before without my dog even paying attention. You will be amazed. I caution you though that this is not a trainer who "treats" puppies into good behavior. He trains drug sniffing dogs, police dogs, attack dogs, etc.

A shock collar will give you better control if you don't have the dog leashed, but make sure you get someone to show you how to use it properly.

Good luck with your dog. I know it is one of the hardest things in the world to have a dog that you are afraid to have around other people.

[weekapaugjz]

my girlfriends dog is the exact same way. its half lab/half rottweiller (sp?) and he is pretty nuts. the first time i met him he was a little aggressive but nothing major. ive always been really good with dogs. i gave him a few treats and everything was fine. the next time i went over to her house, he completely freaked and took a nickel size chunk out of my arm. she has to keep him in seclusion anytime anyone comes over to her house. she is going through the same dilemma about what to do about him. he's been getting some training and hopefully it works out. she is really against putting him down. i just hope he doesn't get loose from her house and go after some random person.

i have used a shock collar on one of my dogs before and it worked ok. it was a little spitz/eskimo mix who had a major barking problem. if you put the shock collar on her, she would get extremely nervous and just cower in the corner. like someone stated above, i don't know if the shock collar would work on the aggression problem.

best of luck with working out your situation, laboob.

[LaBoob]

Thank you so much for your advice. I'm going to continue researching the shock collar and will let you know if it's successful or not. At the very least, it would be worth it for occasions where the UPS man comes to the door and my dog flips out. She destroyed a curtain, but more importantly destroyed a beautiful door from jumping up on it. If I could break her of flipping out in this case I'd consider it something of a success.


so your dog is female too

lesbian


:lol:

[JPMNICK]

Thank you so much for your advice. I'm going to continue researching the shock collar and will let you know if it's successful or not. At the very least, it would be worth it for occasions where the UPS man comes to the door and my dog flips out. She destroyed a curtain, but more importantly destroyed a beautiful door from jumping up on it. If I could break her of flipping out in this case I'd consider it something of a success.



:lol:

i was under contract to buy this BEAUTIFUL house. it was so nice, but the people had dogs, and when i did a thorough walk through eveery door and molding was chewed or clawed by the dogs. the front door was 4,000 to replace. I just did not want the headache to worry about it. they lost the sale cause their dogs were not well trained. oh well sucks for them.

I might have my old dogs shock collar at home, I am going to check after work today. If i find it, you are more then welcome to have it

[spainlinx0]

This is a late bump, but there is an important thing about shock collars. You should wait 45 minutes after putting on the shock collar before using it. This gives the dog time to forget they are wearing it. Also you should wait 45 minutes after the last shock to remove it. This way they will not associate the collar with the shock. Otherwise it may become difficult to get your dog to obey without the collar on. This is also probably why the poster above had problems with the other dog cowering in the corner.

[LaBoob]

This is a late bump, but there is an important thing about shock collars. You should wait 45 minutes after putting on the shock collar before using it. This gives the dog time to forget they are wearing it. Also you should wait 45 minutes after the last shock to remove it. This way they will not associate the collar with the shock. Otherwise it may become difficult to get your dog to obey without the collar on. This is also probably why the poster above had problems with the other dog cowering in the corner.


Ahhh! Yes, thank you for posting that! It's really smart and makes a ton of sense.

[Bulldogcakes]

You'd have to strap me down to get that dog away from me.

I don't want your dog, but can I strap you down anyway?:wink:

[ryno1974]

I have a 2 1/2 year old black lab that is the complete opposite of yours (loves everyone to death) but is waaay too hyper. Trying to be friendly with little kids could scare them or knock them down, and my wife was scared that he would hurt someone accidentally. We got a shock collar for him, and when it goes on now he is a different dog. It has both shock and beep, and we never use the shock anymore. The beep shuts him down, and brings him back in line right away. Best thing we ever bought. He also knows that wearing it means he might get off leash, so he is excited to wear it. Good luck!

[LaBoob]

[quote=Bulldogcakes;1703188]I don't want your dog, but can I strap you down anyway?:wink:[/quote

You have to get past my dog!

[Friday]

sometimes i think a shock collar would be good for when i act up.

do they operate by remote? and how far does the remote reach?

heh...

[supertrucker]

I reread your post, and I don't think that shock collars are effective for dealing with fear aggression. If you plan on keeping the dog, you definitely need to get some professional advice and evaluation. We had to put a dog down because of it's fear aggression. It was horrible, but a very experienced dog-aggression trainer (ex Israeli Army K9) demonstrated how dangerous the dog could be, and we made the decision to euthanize rather than deal with human injury or death in the future.

I would have to agree with Chigworthy. This kind of behavior can be hard to overcome. She has already bitten people. I also think seclusion is not a good answer, only a bandaid.
She will eventually come into contact with someone who really spooks her.

[Bulldogcakes]

I would have to agree with Chigworthy. This kind of behavior can be hard to overcome. She has already bitten people. I also think seclusion is not a good answer, only a bandaid. She will eventually come into contact with someone who really spooks her.

I couldn't disagree more. Anyone willing to take the time to train a dog can overcome most behavior issues. Its not at all uncommon for dogs who have lost their first home (pack) to become overly protective of their new owner. In their mind the owner is the alpha and they are just doing their job. Having lost their first home and maybe spending some very frightening time in a shelter, its pretty understandable from their point of view.

But these problems are generally easy to deal with. For example, dogs learn by association. The next time someone is coming over, you could have them call you when they get in front of your house and meet them outside. Hand your friend some dog treats and tell them to wait a few minutes before coming in. Then when they ring the bell and come inside, the first thing your friend can do is hand your dog a treat. Now instead of having a dog ready to attack, you have a dog ready to mooch whenever someone rings the bell. You've just created a totally different association with strangers in your dogs mind. Repeat this a few times to reinforce it in their minds and the problem is solved. Most friends don't mind doing this and its actually kinda fun for everyone involved. If they own a dog themselves, maybe they can just bring some treats of their own and you don't even have to meet them outside.

Pretty simple, huh? Thats why having someone else kill your dog for you is a selfish, lazy and cowardly way to deal with this. If you can't outsmart your dog, you must be pretty stupid. God forbid someone watches 2 episodes of the "Dog Whisperer" or hires a trainer. Its just sad that the dog ends up paying for people's ignorance with his life.

[Bulldogcakes]

You have to get past my dog!

I'll bring a pork chop!

[LaBoob]

I kind of put this whole thing on hold for a while and didn't wind up getting a shock collar, BUT... I may be getting a roommate soon, an old friend of mine who's just looking for a cheap place to shack up, and having my dog under control would make things a LOT easier for both of us.

I'm now researching the shock collars, but am wondering if anybody has any BRAND names of shock collars they'd recommend?

This one is my pick so far:

http://www.k9electronics.com/images/products/detail/comfort-fit-big-dog-trainer.jpg

http://www.k9electronics.com/product/A103-PA11-PDT00-10675/PDT0010675ComfortFitBigDogRemoteTrainer.aspx

[Cleophus James]

Got one myself. Worked great. Instant attitude adjustment. It sounds a tone every time it shocks. So you can stop shocking and just use tone.

[LaBoob]

Got one myself. Worked great. Instant attitude adjustment. It sounds a tone every time it shocks. So you can stop shocking and just use tone.

Sounds like what I'm looking for, what brand is it?

[Cleophus James]

Sounds like what I'm looking for, what brand is it?
Not sure. Its not with me. But when you find one you like it will say tone or tone only button.

[LaBoob]

I just bought the one I posted there, it has a tone/tone only option and 10 levels of shock. Hopefully it works!! It would be great to have a roommate here...

[Chigworthy]

I just bought the one I posted there, it has a tone/tone only option and 10 levels of shock. Hopefully it works!! It would be great to have a roommate here...

In my experience the shock is only needed at the beginning, and eventially the tone is enough to correct.

[LaBoob]

In my experience the shock is only needed at the beginning, and eventially the tone is enough to correct.

Yeah, I hope so! My dog is really smart... too smart, but I think that will help.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/wishpig107/regalstasha.jpg?t=1213986744

[LaBoob]

I finally got my dog's shock collar, but buried at the back of the manual it says "not recommended for use with aggressive dogs"... WTF???

[MisterSmith]

I finally got my dog's shock collar, but buried at the back of the manual it says "not recommended for use with aggressive dogs"... WTF???

Well, that sort of makes sense. An aggressive dog might see the shock as more of an attack than a training method. But I also think that if the owner uses the tones and low levels of shock to establish the boundary, then it should be OK.

I say this because I have seen some people use the collar as "behavior modification" rather than training for boundaries. Sorry, that is not very clear. I mean they use the shock collar to force compliance rather than use light shock as a training tool, making it fear-based enforcement rather than training.

[LaBoob]

Well, that sort of makes sense. An aggressive dog might see the shock as more of an attack than a training method. But I also think that if the owner uses the tones and low levels of shock to establish the boundary, then it should be OK.

I say this because I have seen some people use the collar as "behavior modification" rather than training for boundaries. Sorry, that is not very clear. I mean they use the shock collar to force compliance rather than use light shock as a training tool, making it fear-based enforcement rather than training.

Stasha responds well to a little fear. I haven't used it yet, because I wanted to think about the best way to introduce it to her. She freaks out when we're out on my front porch (enclosed) when someone walks by. I was thinking of using the tone, followed by the normal commands I use which she responds to 99% when we're inside, and then followed by the shock, at the lowest level that gets her attention under ideal conditions. If that doesn't work, I'll turn it up a notch and see if she responds to that, and repeat. I'm actually very discouraged by that little note in the manual saying it's not recommended for her, but I will give it my best effort anyway. :down: I hope it works.

BTW, I used it on my hand and it was scary!!! I hated it, but it didn't hurt.

[MisterSmith]

Stasha responds well to a little fear. I haven't used it yet, because I wanted to think about the best way to introduce it to her. She freaks out when we're out on my front porch (enclosed) when someone walks by. I was thinking of using the tone, followed by the normal commands I use which she responds to 99% when we're inside, and then followed by the shock, at the lowest level that gets her attention under ideal conditions. If that doesn't work, I'll turn it up a notch and see if she responds to that, and repeat. I'm actually very discouraged by that little note in the manual saying it's not recommended for her, but I will give it my best effort anyway. :down: I hope it works.

BTW, I used it on my hand and it was scary!!! I hated it, but it didn't hurt.

It sounds to me that you are planning to go about it the right way and use low-level shocks as a last resort. However, you will need to see how Stasha responds; if she generally responds to your commands and doesn't see you as a threat you hopefully won't have the same kind of aggressive response they are warning about.

However, I am not an authority on the subject. I would imagine that the warning refers to really aggressive dogs that owners would be using the collar to "force into submission." If you love your dog (as you obviously do) and are using the collar to essentially get Stasha's attention, then I can't imagine it would trigger an overly negative response. But pay close attention and stop if she acts contrary to your expectations.

[LaBoob]

Will do... She's submissive to me about 99.9% of the time. Just need a way to get her attention, exactly. I'm off to try it now...

[CaptClown]

What behaviors do you notice before she goes into that state? Had to ask the Cesar Millan question.

[LaBoob]

What behaviors do you notice before she goes into that state? Had to ask the Cesar Millan question.

All of her hair on her back stands up, her body stiffens, she drools, she barks loudly and tries to charge whatever is causing her to be aggressive. Classic aggressive behavior.

[CaptClown]

All of her hair on her back stands up, her body stiffens, she drools, she barks loudly and tries to charge whatever is causing her to be aggressive. Classic aggressive behavior.
There might be some you might be missing before the hair standing up. If you can notice it you can catch it at that stage and break her rhythm. Call Cesar Millan and see what he thinks he might even get you on TV.

[LaBoob]

I tried the shock collar with Stasha in the car today and it went SO WELL!!!!! She is a changed dog in the car. She used to bark at absolutely everything, nonstop, for hours if that's how long it took to get somewhere. If we stopped next to someone walking on the street, or stopped among a bunch of cars in traffic, she'd bark so viscously at them and it was really embarrassing.

Today she whined a LOT at first, barked a little, and just by using the noise function on the shock collar she quieted down right away. She actually laid down in the car, which she never did unless I was in the backseat with her forcing her to. I'm sooooo proud of her and so happy the collar is working... next challenge: working with strange people in the house. It's the biggest challenge yet for her, and believe it or not I'm still not feeling very optimistic, but I do have some hope.

Stasha puked in the backseat of my car. :down: I hope it doesn't leave a stain.

[Wrinklednuts]

First of all check out the Dog Whisperer on National Geographic. Very good advice especially about dealing with dogs who have fear aggression.

Outstanding advice. He even has several books out now that are very informative. I have become addicted to this show since buying two black lab female puppies last year. He is brilliant with dogs of all breeds and problems. The thing I have found most facinating is the fact that 95% of the time, the dog isn't the problem. The owner is. This show helped me avoid a lot of mistakes I made with previous dogs.

[Bossanova]

I work with alot of German Sheppards and some of them are very agressive tword people. You have to correct them instantly and stay on it. Some just sense bad things and will never trust certain people.

Also, I love them because they will not do what they don't want to