3rd Bass

[JimBeam]

So the other day I'm listening to the Old School rap channel on Sirius and 3rd Bass' " Pop Goes The Weasel " comes on.

I always thought it was a catchy tune but also though that the lyrics and motivation were ridiculous.

They seem to rail against MC Hammer because they think he's a sellout because his rap was considered pop-like and corny. What they failed to realize was that their's was exactly the same yet not nearly as succesful.

They also come off like Hammer was disgracing the rap pioneers, which for some reason they feel they were a part of but I would think you'd have a difficult time finding anybody who would put 3rd Bass in the same class as The Sugar Hill Gang, Whoodini, Run DMC, etc ....

And while I'm thinking about Run DMC wouldn't it have been their working with Aerosmith that could be consdiered the ultimate rap/pop sellout ?

3rd Bass seemed to have missed that.

They also go on about sampling and appear to mock it yet the song itself is sampling Peter Gabriel'd " Sledgehammer ". Maybe their point was that you can sample as long as you give credit which is something Vanilla Ice suposedly didn't do.

So to me it looks like they had a hardon against MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice because both of them reached commercial, and probably financial, peaks they never reached with their careers.

It seems as though 3rd Bass was a wanna-be version of the Beastie Boys that never got remotely close.

In reading about 3rd Bass it seems that they had a small feud w/ the Beastie Boys because they bailed on Def Jam, 3rd Bass' label, after the success of License To Ill.

[booster11373]

I dont know?

[BoondockSaint]

Here's one of the reason's that MC's didn't like Hammer:

Hammer initially refused to sign a contract with Capitol Records, but after a substantial signing bonus was added to his contract, he did. His debut album was then re-released as Let's Get It Started. A new video was shot for "Let's Get it Started," and another video was produced in fall of 1988 called "Pump It Up" (a new track added to Let's Get It Started). The "Pump It Up" video was added to the roster of "new wave" hip-hop videos that premiered or re-aired on the premiere season of Yo! MTV Raps. It depicted hip-hop legends Run-DMC getting disrespected by Hammer. The album eventually went triple-platinum (more than 3 million units sold). "Turn This Mutha Out" (the album's biggest hit), "Feel My Power", and "They Put Me in the Mix" saw heavy rotation on R&B/Hip-Hop radio stations throughout late 1988 into 1989.

[TheMojoPin]

Well, there was an inherrent rivalry between the Beasties and 3rd Bass because, when you get down to it, 3rd Bass were MUCH better MC's than the Beasties ever could have been...plus the Beasties got into hip-hop more as a joke than anything else, whereas 3rd Bass basically lived and breathed the stuff. Yeah, the Beasties shaped up (I love 'em) and ended up dropping some stone cold classics, but as MC's they can't even come close to 3rd Bass.

They're not slamming sampling in the song...they're slamming lazy sampling like Hammer and Vanilla Ice's biggest hits did and Puffy would do down the line. Sampling was an artform with late 809's and early 90's hip-hop, but it got sidetracked by lazy producers and MC's who just basically took an entire song wholesale and just rapped over it.

Hammer may get some more appreciation now for being an awesome showman who expanded the appeal of the genre...and he should, because he did...but at the time, he was a pretty batant opportunist and the definition of a "sellout." 3rd Bass were hardly the only rap act to look at Hammer with disgust and frustration. Sure, jealousy was part of it...but more that someone got as far as that with lazy production and pretty halfassed MC skills than just general jealousy of someone "making it." And man, Vanilla Ice deserves all the shit he gets, especially from good white MC's.

3rd Bass rules. They've still got respect in hip-hop because they're tried and true.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I like 3rd Bass, but their main point against Ice was that he was the Britney Spears of rap - prepackaged, not "real", etc.

Hammer completely and totally sold out, not once by twice, first going all pop, then going "gangsta".

Run DMC was not a "sellout" because they were sampling "Walk this Way". Aerosmith, at the time, was on a SEVERE career downswing.

It's all about rap beefs. The genre has changed a LOT since 3rd Bass.

Ironically, Henry Rollins played Ice in the "Weasel" video. That's funny.

"Gas Face" is a good tune as well.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Well, there was an inherrent rivalry between the Beasties and 3rd Bass because, when you get down to it, 3rd Bass were MUCH better MC's than the Beasties ever could have been...plus the Beasties got into hip-hop more as a joke than anything else, whereas 3rd Bass basically lived and breathed the stuff. Yeah, the Beasties shaped up (I love 'em) and ended up dropping some stone cold classics, but as MC's they can't even come close to 3rd Bass.

They're not slamming sampling in the song...they're slamming lazy sampling like Hammer and Vanilla Ice's biggest hits did and Puffy would do down the line. Sampling was an artform with late 809's and early 90's hip-hop, but it got sidetracked by lazy producers and MC's who just basically took an entire song wholesale and just rapped over it.

Hammer may get some more appreciation now for being an awesome showman who expanded the appeal of the genre...and he should, because he did...but at the time, he was a pretty batant opportunist and the definition of a "sellout." 3rd Bass were hardly the only rap act to look at Hammer with disgust and frustration. Sure, jealousy was part of it...but more that someone got as far as that with lazy production and pretty halfassed MC skills than just general jealousy of someone "making it." And man, Vanilla Ice deserves all the shit he gets, especially from good white MC's.

3rd Bass rules. They've still got respect in hip-hop because they're tried and true.

Once again, Mojo is eloquent without hating.

Mojo, did you read the article on ESPN.com about Pete Nice and being a baseball historian?

[TheMojoPin]

Once again, Mojo is eloquent without hating.

Mojo, did you read the article on ESPN.com about Pete Nice and being a baseball historian?

No way, he is? Link me, man!

[BoondockSaint]

No way, he is? Link me, man!


Yeah, he lives in Cooperstown and written a few books.

Here's a NY Times article. (Rapping to the Oldies)

[JimBeam]

I forget who it was, and it actually might've been MC Hammer, who said " 'Selling out " means ' Why Didn't It happen To Me ? ' "

Now some artisits may argue that they didn't want money to define their music but that's hardly the case with rap when much of it is about how much money can be made, what cars can be driven and what kinda champagne can be bought.

I really don't ever remember Hammer sounding off about 3rd Bass in any of his songs and maybe that was a sign that he didn't know/care who they were.

While I admit that Hammer is in no way the same as the other classic rappers I don't find 3rd Bass to be any less vanilla ( no pun intended there ).

Granted I've never heard anything more than their 2 more mainstream songs, " Gas Face " and " Pop Goes The Weasel ", but both of those were opportunistic ( in attacking Hammer and Vanilla Ice ) and downright corny ( MC Serch's dancing in one of the videos was apparently called out by the Beastie Boys in one of their songs ).

To be honest I only ever really liked the Beastie's songs off Licensed To Ill and wouldnt say I was a huge fan.

But to me the Jewish rapper bit had been done by the Beastie Boys and 3rd Bass came off as a lame comparison.

We know the commercial success of License To Ill was greater than the combined catalouge of 3rd Bass but I would also hedge a bet that in the rap community itself more respect is given to the Beastie Boys than 3rd Bass.

[JimBeam]

From the 3rd Bass reference on Wikipedia :

Meanwhile, Pete Nice retired from the music business and opened a baseball memorabilia store in Cooperstown, New York, In 2003, he published a book, Baseball Legends of Brooklyn's Green-Wood Cemetery, under his real name. He has also been working to secure some property for an official gravesite of Negro League players.

[Tenbatsuzen]

No way, he is? Link me, man!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/080218

[TheMojoPin]

I forget who it was, and it actually might've been MC Hammer, who said " 'Selling out " means ' Why Didn't It happen To Me ? ' "

Now some artisits may argue that they didn't want money to define their music but that's hardly the case with rap when much of it is about how much money can be made, what cars can be driven and what kinda champagne can be bought.

Not at the time.

I really don't ever remember Hammer sounding off about 3rd Bass in any of his songs and maybe that was a sign that he didn't know/care who they were.

Hammer didn't battle rap.

While I admit that Hammer is in no way the same as the other classic rappers I don't find 3rd Bass to be any less vanilla ( no pun intended there ).

Granted I've never heard anything more than their 2 more mainstream songs, " Gas Face " and " Pop Goes The Weasel ", but both of those were opportunistic ( in attacking Hammer and Vanilla Ice ) and downright corny ( MC Serch's dancing in one of the videos was apparently called out by the Beastie Boys in one of their songs ).

Listen to more.

To be honest I only ever really liked the Beastie's songs off Licensed To Ill and wouldnt say I was a huge fan.

I freakin' hate most of LtI at this point. The whole thing sounds like a sloppy joke, and it's barely hip-hop or "rock"...it's barely music. It's "respected" because it's technically a breakthrough album sales an airplay-wise since it was cataloged as a rap albm through its release on Def Jam. All of the main singles were just rock songs barely dressed up as rap. There are a couple fun, if simplistic, rap songs on there, but I can see why the Beasties are embarassed by most of it compared to how good they got.

But to me the Jewish rapper bit had been done by the Beastie Boys and 3rd Bass came off as a lame comparison.

That's a nonsensical comparison. Only the Beasties were initially doing a "bit." The guys in 3rd Bass (only one of whom is Jewish) weren't trying to play up their whiteness or "Jewishness" like the Beasties were clearly doing as a joke on their early singles and on LtI. 3rd Bass were just guys the loved and lived hip-hop, as opposed to the Beasties initially being three punk guys "doing" rap as a goof. All three 3rd Bass members were involved in the scene before LtI came out. They never played up their "freakshow" appeal like the Beasties relied on for their first album.

We know the commercial success of License To Ill was greater than the combined catalouge of 3rd Bass but I would also hedge a bet that in the rap community itself more respect is given to the Beastie Boys than 3rd Bass.

You seem hung up on record sales as a gauge for whether a hip-hop artists is good or not. The Beasties are respected now for ultimately putting out a series of great albums after LtI, but as MC's, no serious fan of hip-hop rates the Beasties over 3rd Bass. And just because one act is respected more in certain areas than another act doesn't mean the latter act somehow "loses" or is negated.

[JimBeam]

Mojo if it's not about commercial succes then why did they disband after that last album in 1991 ?

Surely they didn't want to hang up music altogether because MC Serch did his own album as did Pete Nice who stayed with Richie Rich.

They obviously disbanded because they had no following to speak of whether it be commercialy or from a pure fan base.

If they loved rap so much and were so loved within the industry why didn't they stay together ?

And you can not say that some of 3rd Bass' success/notoriety was not due to the fact that 2 of the 3 guys were white.

Because of that makeup they were given access to certain exposure that wasn't affored a solo black artist or all black group.

At the time KRS-One, Public Enemy, EPMD ( on a side note their name alone makes the point that rap, at least to some, was all about making money ) were widely popular but to see their videos on MTV you'd have to wait for Yo MTV Raps while you could see " Pop Goes The Weasel " on at any time of day.

I dont purely think an artist/groups' commercial success judges how great they are ( because I'm sure Puff Daddy and the like made more money than some of the artists I've previoulsy mentioned w/out half the talent/originality ) but I think their cultural reference defines them to a point.

If you asked people between the ages of 30 - 50 to write down 20 rap artists/groups, in no order of preference, how many of those would put down 3rd Bass before MC Hammer or even Vanilla Ice ( and again I'm not saying that Vanilla Ice belongs in the category but I think he is somehow lumped in because he had 1 hit that captured a lot of attention ) ?

I don't think the number would be that high.

Again it's music and to each his own.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Mojo if it's not about commercial succes then why did they disband after that last album in 1991 ?

Not familiar with Guns n' Roses, are you?

Maybe they just had personal issues.

[JimBeam]

Quote:
I really don't ever remember Hammer sounding off about 3rd Bass in any of his songs and maybe that was a sign that he didn't know/care who they were.

Hammer didn't battle rap.

Shouldn't it only be considered a " battle " when both sides are participating ?

It kinda makes me think of the " If a tree falls in the forest .... " question.

[JimBeam]

The downfall of GNR, due to the infighting, was widely reported yet I haven't heard/read much about that being an issue w/ 3rd Bass.

I did read in that ESPN article that there was a bar name Third Base Saloon in Boston but no mention that it was the motivation of the group name.

Would seem strange because apparently Pete Nice was/is a Met fan.

[Reephdweller]

GET THE GAS FACE SUKKAZ!

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I agree, 3rd Bass were much better than the Beasties intially, but the Beasties came back strong and still do this day.

[Reephdweller]

Brooklyn Queens

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[TheMojoPin]

Mojo if it's not about commercial succes then why did they disband after that last album in 1991 ?

Surely they didn't want to hang up music altogether because MC Serch did his own album as did Pete Nice who stayed with Richie Rich.

They obviously disbanded because they had no following to speak of whether it be commercialy or from a pure fan base.

What an absurd conclusion to leap to. Both albums were very critically acclaimed, and both charted. 3rd Bass had more sales success than a lot of hip-hop acts ever will.

Why does any band break up? For a myriad of reasons. Seeing as Nice and Serch didn't work together after 3rd Bass, it seems a pretty safe bet that internal conflict broke them up.

If they loved rap so much and were so loved within the industry why didn't they stay together ?

What? So they only loved hip-hop if they stayed together as 3rd Bass? How does THAT work? After they broke up, Serch kept working in the industry. He produced NaS' first two albums, for Christ's sake. Nice moved on, which isn't surprising since before 3rd Bass he was more on the producing, DJing and promotion side of things.

And you can not say that some of 3rd Bass' success/notoriety was not due to the fact that 2 of the 3 guys were white.

Because of that makeup they were given access to certain exposure that wasn't affored a solo black artist or all black group.

Actually, it ended up being a detriment thanks to the disaster that was Vanilla Ice. Vanilla screwed it for pretty much any white hip-hop acts who weren't the Beastie Boys until Eminem came along. Everyone else was written off as a gimmick thanks to Vanilla Ice. Everlast from House of Pain is very similar to 3rd Bass...highly regarded and respected MC in hip-hop, big breakout single, fading career afterwards when people shrug off the "white rapper" thing as a gimmick. The Beasties lasted because they were the first to break big and suckered people in who still glom onto the fake-rawk schtick of their shitty debut.

At the time KRS-One, Public Enemy, EPMD ( on a side note their name alone makes the point that rap, at least to some, was all about making money ) were widely popular but to see their videos on MTV you'd have to wait for Yo MTV Raps while you could see " Pop Goes The Weasel " on at any time of day.

I dont purely think an artist/groups' commercial success judges how great they are ( because I'm sure Puff Daddy and the like made more money than some of the artists I've previoulsy mentioned w/out half the talent/originality ) but I think their cultural reference defines them to a point.

3rd Bass shows up on classic hip-hop comps all the time. Their first album almost aways ends up on lists of the top 50 or top 100 hip-hop albums. Serch brought NaS onto the scene. You're trying to dismiss them simply because you don't like them.

If you asked people between the ages of 30 - 50 to write down 20 rap artists/groups, in no order of preference, how many of those would put down 3rd Bass before MC Hammer or even Vanilla Ice ( and again I'm not saying that Vanilla Ice belongs in the category but I think he is somehow lumped in because he had 1 hit that captured a lot of attention ) ?

Are these people hip-hop fans? If they are, it's likely none of them end up in a top 20. Expanded, 3rd Bass would always end up ahead of Vanilla Ice and usually ahead of Hammer. If you're asking non-hip-hop fans, who gives a fuck? They'd probably put Sir Mix-A-Lot on their list over guys like Rakim because of "Baby Got Back."

[BoondockSaint]

I'd put Mix-A-Lot on there for My Posse's on Broadway and My Hooptie.

[TheMojoPin]

I'd put Mix-A-Lot in the dumpster Like I was Morris Day and he was my used up ho.

[ralphbxny]

Yeah, he lives in Cooperstown and written a few books.

Here's a NY Times article. (Rapping to the Oldies)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/080218

GrEAT ARTICLE!

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'd put Mix-A-Lot in the dumpster Like I was Morris Day and he was my used up ho.

You can be Jerome, my black manservant.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Seeing that Gas Face video makes me realize how we ate up music videos that would be produced for about 1000 bucks today.

[TheMojoPin]

You can be Jerome, my black manservant.

*Holds up a mirror as you eat a steak onstage*

[Tenbatsuzen]

*Holds up a mirror as you eat a steak onstage*

Oh-wee-oh-wee-OH!