~2008 Toronto Blue Jays Offseason Thread~

[Kevin]

Eh, Why not, our budday Spoon needs a place to vent or gloat over his awful Blue Jays.

I do not know what to think about this team.. They have good to excellent Pitching. Prob the best 1-12 in baseball. The question is can they stay healthy and can the offense put up their end of the bargin. If things go right, this is a very dangerous team..



Shit, i forgot, according to some people,no one cares about non NY teams on this board.

Have at it Spoony!

[A.J.]

Fixed the title for you.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

congrats Kevin on making 10K posts

[Team_Ramrod]

They will not stay healty this year, that is the one thing that goes without question.
That's the one thing that is a definite every year. They need to replace their entire training staff.

I think they'll fight for the wildcard this year, It'll come down to the final 3 games of the season.

[Kevin]

Fixed the title for you.

Yes, good work, forgot about that.

[Kevin]

congrats Kevin on making 10K posts

You are gaining on me my friend.. Not sure who will do it first.

[Tall_James]

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[cougarjake13]

Eh, Why not, our budday Spoon needs a place to vent or gloat over his awful Blue Jays.

I do not know what to think about this team.. They have good to excellent Pitching. Prob the best 1-12 in baseball. The question is can they stay healthy and can the offense put up their end of the bargin. If things go right, this is a very dangerous team..



Shit, i forgot, according to some people,no one cares about non NY teams on this board.

Have at it Spoony!


they play baseball in canada ???

[A.J.]

they play baseball in canada ???

Yes but up there, there are 3 "eeeooouuwwwts" in an inning.

[Snoogans]

they play baseball in canada ???

why not, they sure havent played much lately in Queens

[spoon]

Well, since the Jays already lost Janssen for the year and they hurried Ryan's return and he's on the shelf for ? amount of time, the injury bug is already in full force.

The good news is that Johnson, Wells, Zaun, and Overbay look to be over their respective injuries/surgeries or both, while Rolen and Thomas seem to be doing well too.

The rotation looks very strong:

Halladay
Burnett
McGowan
Marcum
Litsch

While the bullpen took two hits already with Ryan being delayed and Janssen out. As for the offense, I can promise you that they'll hit a ton better just bc they're guys are healthy in the lineup. If they stay healthy, I can promise you they'll be a top 10 AL offensive team, especially bc of where they play. However, the biggest upgrade is on D and with depth/bench. With the Eckstein/Scutaro/Barajas signings and McDonald/Stairs resigning, the bench is WAY deeper then last, along with some key D upgrades. Johnson in left is quite simply a stud on D. I watch this team all year and he possibly gets to more balls then Wells, and has a stronger arm as well. Behind the plate Barajas is a HUGE upgrade in terms of throwing runners out, which was a terrible weakness last year. Also, having Rolen at third is a big upgrade at the corner, and if healthy can be a big bat as well.

It should be an interesting year indeed, and fuck the spanks and Kevin.

[TheGameHHH]

isnt the average time to fully recover from Tommy John surgery usually around 16 months? Ryan was trying to go all systems go around 12 months, i think thats part of the reason he suffered this setback

[spoon]

isnt the average time to fully recover from Tommy John surgery usually around 16 months? Ryan was trying to go all systems go around 12 months, i think thats part of the reason he suffered this setback

Actually, it hasn't even been 11 months yet and yes the Jays should have slowed him down. I would have been more than happy with a May start to his season (about 12 months), but they aren't in a position like the yanks to fill mult-million dollar holes in any fashion. And that's not a rip, it's just the plain truth of the matter. They don't have the flexibility that the Sox and yanks have. However, it was a stupid move in my mind no matter how you look at it. A pitcher/goalie/QB will never really step out on their own, that's why you have a manager and training staff to pull them back. Let's see how it effects Marty again this year in the playoffs. I'm betting he just falls asleep in the crease due to exhaustion by the 5th game in the first round. Holy F does he play too much!!!

[Kevin]

Speaking of Ryan...


Ryan, who pitched in only five games last year before having Tommy John elbow surgery in May, threw his second scoreless inning of the spring on Monday. He later reported minor soreness in his biceps and forearm.

"I'm always the type of guy who would get a second-day soreness," Ryan said Thursday. "Hopefully it's just a little tightness in there, and we can get it calmed down."

Manager John Gibbons said he was optimistic Ryan would be OK.

"It might be in a couple of days," said Gibbons, "When he is ready to go we will get him in a game."

Said general manager J.P. Ricciardi: "He is throwing every day and we are monitoring him. I don't think this is a setback; he is ahead of schedule.

"We need to have B.J. for the whole year, not half a year. So we are treating it with kid gloves."

If Ryan isn't ready for the start of the season, the team has other closer candidates: Jeremy Accardo saved 30 games last season, and veteran Armando Benitez agreed to a minor league deal last week


Could be big or could be nothing, time will tell. But you better hope they are not serious about Benitez, Spoony.

[Kevin]

Rios closes in on big deal with Jays worth $65M through 2014 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3314103)


TORONTO -- Alex Rios and the Toronto Blue Jays are closing in on a six-year contract extension through 2014 that would guarantee him about $65 million.


The deal might include a 2015 option that could make it worth about $80 million.

It would be the second-richest contract in club history behind the $126 million, seven-year deal signed by center fielder Vernon Wells in 2006.

About 11 per, with this market he could have gotten more. Good signing.

[spoon]

Fuck your yankee blue jeans!

Here come the Blue Jays you spank bitches!!



Halladay and the Jay's offense are going to make Wang realize he's a fucking #3 at best.

[spoon]

Booo, rainout.

Horay beer!

[spoon]

Sit down Jeter!!


Time to shell Wang!

[ZigZagBigBag]

i love Rios and i was disappointed when they were offering him to San Fran for that Lincacum pitcher guy. Vernon needs to bounce back from a sub-par season and i feel oddly encouraged by seeing shannon stewart in a jay uniform again.

[Doctor Z]

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

[cougarjake13]

nice dr. z

[spoon]

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ttokalli/kaatis/fail.jpg

Yah, that's right up there with LOLLER coaster.

And looks like Harden is still made of glass as he'll miss another start. Good for the Jays and Burnett no doubt.

[Bulldogcakes]

Blue Jays release Frank Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3355502)

A day after getting benched and openly complaining about playing time, Blue Jays designated hitter Frank Thomas was released by Toronto, according to a report from TSN of Canada on Sunday.

On Saturday, Thomas was livid after getting benched in favor of Matt Stairs and being told by manager John Gibbons he can expect further cuts to his playing time.

Sounds like they had a blowout.

[ZigZagBigBag]

Blue Jays release Frank Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3355502)



Sounds like they had a blowout.

maybe gibby and the big hurt will have a scrap about it.

[cougarjake13]

so who's gonna pick him up ???

yankees ???

red sox ???

indians ???

[K.C.]

so who's gonna pick him up ???

yankees ???

red sox ???

indians ???

Well, he'd almost have to stay in the AL. So here's the DH position on each team:

Boston: David Ortiz
New York: Jason Giambi/Hideki Matsui/Johnny Damon (split time)
Toronto: Matt Stairs
Baltimore: Aubrey Huff
Tampa Bay: Johnny Gomes/Eric Hinske (split time, one at DH, one in RF)
Cleveland: Travis Hafner
Detroit: Gary Sheffield
Minnesota: Craig Monroe
Kansas City: Billy Butler
Chicago: Jim Thome
Anaheim: Garrett Anderson
Oakland: Mike Sweeney
Seattle: Jose Vidro
Texas: Milton Bradley/Frank Catalanatto/Jason Botts (split time)

The bold teams are where he has a shot to end up, I think.

-Tampa could shift Gomes to RF permanently, and either bench or trade Hinske
-Minnesota could use him in Monroe's spot, since he's never really materialized.
-He'd be an upgrade over Vidro in Seattle
-Texas could play Catalanatto in LF, Bradley in RF, and put Thomas in as the DH.

If I had to bet, Minnesota is the best fit.

[cougarjake13]

Well, he'd almost have to stay in the AL. So here's the DH position on each team:

Boston: David Ortiz
New York: Jason Giambi/Hideki Matsui/Johnny Damon (split time)
Toronto: Matt Stairs
Baltimore: Aubrey Huff
Tampa Bay: Johnny Gomes/Eric Hinske (split time, one at DH, one in RF)
Cleveland: Travis Hafner
Detroit: Gary Sheffield
Minnesota: Craig Monroe
Kansas City: Billy Butler
Chicago: Jim Thome
Anaheim: Garrett Anderson
Oakland: Mike Sweeney
Seattle: Jose Vidro
Texas: Milton Bradley/Frank Catalanatto/Jason Botts (split time)

The bold teams are where he has a shot to end up, I think.

-Tampa could shift Gomes to RF permanently, and either bench or trade Hinske
-Minnesota could use him in Monroe's spot, since he's never really materialized.
-He'd be an upgrade over Vidro in Seattle
-Texas could play Catalanatto in LF, Bradley in RF, and put Thomas in as the DH.

If I had to bet, Minnesota is the best fit.

minnesota makes the most sense competition wise if he wanst to play for a winner and they want him

[K.C.]

minnesota makes the most sense competition wise if he wanst to play for a winner and they want him

It's either that, accept a bench role somewhere (which doesn't seem likely), wait to see if someone gets hurt on another team, or starting brushing up on how to play the field again and maybe snag an NL job (again, unlikely).

[cougarjake13]

It's either that, accept a bench role somewhere (which doesn't seem likely), wait to see if someone gets hurt on another team, or starting brushing up on how to play the field again and maybe snag an NL job (again, unlikely).

only way he goes to the nl is if he accepts being a backup 1st basemen and bat of the bench

[joeyballsack]

Thomas would be a fit playing out in Anaheim I thought.

They still need a slugger besides Vlad and he would get a chance to play for a strong contender.

[Kris10]

How old is Thomas?? Shouldn't he retire?

[cougarjake13]

like 38 i think

[spoon]

Well, he'd almost have to stay in the AL. So here's the DH position on each team:

Boston: David Ortiz
New York: Jason Giambi/Hideki Matsui/Johnny Damon (split time)
Toronto: Matt Stairs
Baltimore: Aubrey Huff
Tampa Bay: Johnny Gomes/Eric Hinske (split time, one at DH, one in RF)
Cleveland: Travis Hafner
Detroit: Gary Sheffield
Minnesota: Craig Monroe
Kansas City: Billy Butler
Chicago: Jim Thome
Anaheim: Garrett Anderson
Oakland: Mike Sweeney
Seattle: Jose Vidro
Texas: Milton Bradley/Frank Catalanatto/Jason Botts (split time)

The bold teams are where he has a shot to end up, I think.

-Tampa could shift Gomes to RF permanently, and either bench or trade Hinske
-Minnesota could use him in Monroe's spot, since he's never really materialized.
-He'd be an upgrade over Vidro in Seattle
-Texas could play Catalanatto in LF, Bradley in RF, and put Thomas in as the DH.

If I had to bet, Minnesota is the best fit.

Good analysis, but I'd lean toward Seattle.

[spoon]

And the move is strategic in that now they don't have to pick up the option next year for around 10 million. Nothing against Thomas, but he's such a slow starter and it kills ur team, along with how fucking slow he is on the bases!! He's good for at least one dp a fucking game and swings for the fences/stats all day long.

How the fuck does a cash strapped team make this Thomas move in the first place as it makes 0 sense for them.

You fill that spot with a cheap alternative/s and setup the team's pitching and D/hitting first. DH is the last worry to me, and it should be for teams like this. He's NOT worth the fucking money as the Jays needed infield D and starters at the time. It was a stupid signing.

[spoon]

Who's ready for a 6th complete game before the end of May?!?!

This guy!

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/tor/images/y2007/fan_forum/halladay_800x600.jpg

[spoon]

Oh well, 8 innings/1 earned it is.

[spoon]

Nice to see the #5 for the Jays is better then all three aces (Hughes/Kennedy/Joba in case your wondering about BDC's Angels) for the spanks.

Litsch, 7-1 record bitch.

Yet another shutout of late for the Jays!

[Kevin]

Ahem
SUCK IT SPOON!!!!!!!!

[TheMojoPin]

Ouch.

[Knowledged_one]

so how long till they fire their manager?

[epo]

I would fire him during the Top of the 7th.

[TheMojoPin]

Holy Christ, Burnett has looked like dogshit lately. I really hope the Cubs don't go after him, or if they do, they barely give up anything for him.

[Snoogans]

so how long till they fire their manager?

if it was up to spoon it woulda happened in May

[midwestjeff]

Wow. A big fuck you to Adam Dunn from Jays GM.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080507&content_id=2655965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Snoogans]

It [ticks] me off, to be honest with you," Dunn said. "He doesn't even know me. If he knew me, fine, say what you want. This guy doesn't know anything about me, other than what he sees on whatever 'SportsCenter' they have up there. That's it."

how much ass does that kick

[cougarjake13]

Wow. A big fuck you to Adam Dunn from Jays GM.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080507&content_id=2655965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

wow can he get fined for that ???

[midwestjeff]

wow can he get fined for that ???

Do you mean Dunn for sucking or the GM for talking shit?

[cougarjake13]

Do you mean Dunn for sucking or the GM for talking shit?

both i guess

but moreso the gm

[Knowledged_one]

It [ticks] me off, to be honest with you," Dunn said. "He doesn't even know me. If he knew me, fine, say what you want. This guy doesn't know anything about me, other than what he sees on whatever 'SportsCenter' they have up there. That's it."

how much ass does that kick

I liked this one better

"If anything happens, I ain't going to Toronto," Dunn said. "I can eliminate one team. I'm not converting my dollars to loonies and toonies just yet."

[TheMojoPin]

Wow. A big fuck you to Adam Dunn from Jays GM.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080507&content_id=2655965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Wow, what a dumb fucking GM. Good luck with that, Blue Jays.

[Snoogans]

You are gonna be rich by the end of this season, Mojo. 2 bucks per, baby

[cougarjake13]

I liked this one better

"If anything happens, I ain't going to Toronto," Dunn said. "I can eliminate one team. I'm not converting my dollars to loonies and toonies just yet."

haha nice

[TheMojoPin]

FJM's take on the Dunn comments. (http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/06/rough-year-for-jp-ricciardi-huh.html)

Dude, again, I'm not saying you should definitely trade for Adam Dunn. He's not a savior by any means. But your current leader in OPS is Rod Barajas, at .821.

Current Adam Dunn, despite his piss-poor .227 BA, would lead your team in R, HR, RBI, OBP, SLG, and (of course) OPS. But you're not "attracted" to him, naturally, because he's such a passionless turd.

I actually have some sympathy for Ricciardi here. You know who sucks on the Blue Jays this year? Everyone. All of them. Vernon Wells sucks. Alex Rios sucks. Scott Rolen sucks. David Eckstein...well, Eckstein is awesome. And a lot of these guys simply shouldn't be sucking as much as they're sucking. I don't know that it's completely fair to pillory Ricciardi for the same reason that I don't think Mark Shapiro is a miserable GM because Victor Martinez, Travis Hafner, and Jhonny Peralta have been absolute black holes for a third of a season.

[spoon]

Sorry, some of the guys he's going after are playing well enough to win as it's so many little things that amounted to this dogshit baseball they are playing right now.

1) Why sign a terribly fielding SS with a ground ball pitching staff and a gold glove type fielder on the staff? Not only does it double or more your cost at the position, it also fucks over a great team player the team told would be the starter if he signed. Sure MacDonald can't hit that well, but he is scrappy just like Eckstein and comes with the same power (almost none), exponentially better fielding and if in the lineup often a very good situational hitter (bunting, moving the runner, hit and run and more). $$ (money cost)

*Oh and he also gave fucking Hill the concussion that has him out of the lineup for about a month now, and was the indirect cause of MacDonald getting injured coming off the bench when Eck got banged up since he had to play stiff.

2) Johnson for Stewart. Not only was Johnson younger, a better fielder (awesome), and a fall back or start of the year lead-off, JP AGAIN got NOTHING for a guy with at least some trade value. Also, Johnson is one hell of a loved player by the fans, the players and a decent leader. I miss his grit, D, and effort. $ (money cost)

3) Thomas. Why does a team strapped for cash and limited in what it can do would waste 20 (almost 30 million) on a 40 year old DH who can't even play first in the NL based games. Not only is he injury prone, the last four years you can all but wipe out his first two months of the year while he gets in fucking shape (round). Then to add injury to insult, JP and crew just drop a guy who would have garnered something on the market. Sure I understand that the 3rd year option never vested bc of it, but it wouldn't if he was on the fucking bench or better yet never on the fucking team in the first place.

4) Gibbons. How long/many lives does this fucker get? He runs this pretty fucking slow team out of innings more than any manager I've ever seen, makes terrible moves all week and likes to fight his own team. WTF?!?!

5) Way to waste some really good starting pitching, never make a move to expand the farm system (Lilly and many others in years they were clearly done and not going to keep the player......see Burnett this year).

6) I still think the hurried Ryan this year, and it has hurt his velocity and strength bc he's just supposed to be back on the mound recently in early June.

7) JP and his fucking mouth is the only reason he sticks with Gibbons. How the fuck do you expect to land some good players in the FA market when both your gm and manager have the reps they do. Time to fire them both and move butterfield to the helm for the rest of this possibly lost season. The AL East title is way out of sight, but the WC is still a far, but possible move.

[spoon]

I can go on too..

8) They never addressed the need for not only lefty bats (Wilkerson is NOT addressing it in fucking June), but also at least ONE lefty starter.

9) on and on and on and on

[King Hippos Bandaid]

nice almost win

sorreeee no W on the column though

soreeeeeee

[Knowledged_one]

I can go on too..

8) They never addressed the need for not only lefty bats (Wilkerson is NOT addressing it in fucking June), but also at least ONE lefty starter.

9) on and on and on and on

I take it this isnt from the Canadian equivalent of Peter Abraham

[spadanko]

Cito gaston is back!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8266320/Last-place-Jays-fire-Gibbons,-re-hire-Gaston

[HBox]

Cito gaston is back!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8266320/Last-place-Jays-fire-Gibbons,-re-hire-Gaston

Because it worked so well with Art Shell.

[TheMojoPin]

Fire Sale!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

damn it , just got the call from Randy telling me this

I was gonna post the article stating 1993 called

[spoon]

Because it worked so well with Art Shell.

Wow, talk about a terrible comparison you racist! Cito has a history of winning, versus Art Shell's what? History of eating and being a terrible coach?

Come on H, that was horrible.

[spoon]

Fire Sale!

AJ to the Cubs for Reed Johnson....I can see that idiotic move by JP right now!!!

And it's time to lose AJ anyway.

[spoon]

Here's the difference bt Art Shell and Cito Gaston:


Art Shell:

http://www.benkepple.com/Images/posterfour.jpg




Cito Gaston:

http://jacoblshapiro.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/blue-jays-pride.jpg

[spoon]

Before someone yells, Bobby Cox won the 85 pennant.

[spoon]

As for the move, I like that they only kept the bench coach (Butterfield) and the pitching coach (Arnsberg). However, it seems like a last ditch effort to save his own job by the GM, as I think his mouth alone should warrant his axing....especially when tied to results.

At 64, Cito isn't really too old just yet, but is this a move for the future or one to hold on to some semblance of of respect? I say the latter as he couldn't possibly be interested in managing past the 09 season in my mind. So is this a move to get Butterfield ready and or evaluate his abilities to run a team, or a stop gap move until the offseason? I'm not sure, but the firing needed to happen.....last year at the latest.

[jonyrotn]

Didn't they already go down the Cito Gaston road? Why do they think that'll lead anywhere this time?

I wonder what happens first?
Bluejay's thread gets a hundred posts or we learn how to power a combustion engine on dirty pool water..
Ha! Toronto..Too Funny..Gentlemen, touch gloves and come out fighting..

[Cito Gaston]

We turn this shit around TODAY!

[spoon]

You better be right!

[spoon]

Damn, in Cito I trust!

How's that feel Gvac?!!?

[spoon]

If only Cito was in Toronto to start the fucking season. What a difference a coaching staff makes!

[yojimbo7248]

What a great game yesterday against the Rays.

[timhorton]

<!-- story content starts --><!-- headline and/or image begins -->Zaun walkoff grand slam powers Jays to 7th straight win


can we start a Maple Leafs thread too?

[ChrisBrown]

<!-- story content starts --><!-- headline and/or image begins -->Zaun walkoff grand slam powers Jays to 7th straight win


can we start a Maple Leafs thread too?

Only if we start a Canucks thread first.

[cougarjake13]

<!-- story content starts --><!-- headline and/or image begins -->Zaun walkoff grand slam powers Jays to 7th straight win


can we start a Maple Leafs thread too?



sure why not ?? if it gets enough people posting in it the mods will keep up open i think

[yojimbo7248]

eight in a row. what a great win today against Tampa.

[spoon]

Yah, too bad it wasn't July right now. Hopefully the Jays can make huge strides in 2009 with Cito and crew.

[yojimbo7248]

Yah, too bad it wasn't July right now. Hopefully the Jays can make huge strides in 2009 with Cito and crew.

it does kind of suck they are playing like this now but at least it gives me hope for next season.

[K.C.]

Can we get a 'spoon's pyrrhic victory' tag on this thread since it's looking like the Blue Jays may bump the Yankees down to 4th.

[spoon]

Hey, at least this run will save me some flow with my annual bet against Mojo's Cubs. I'll take some solace in passing those whiny/greedy cunts in the Bronx, but I'd much perfer Toronto win the World Series again soon!

[ChrisTheCop]

I had no idea this thread even existed, but I'm glad it does.

When I see our servicemen out at bars, I always make it a point to buy em a drink.

I will now do this for the Toronto Blue Jays --theyre my new heroes.

Hey I can be tender
I can be sweet
I can sweep the Devil
Off his red hot feet

-Shelly Fairchild

[spoon]

I had no idea this thread even existed, but I'm glad it does.



Come on Chris, this is where I live.

[ChrisTheCop]

Come on Chris, this is where I live.

I didnt know of Nauru either, and people live there.

Just cuz I didnt know something, doesnt make it untrue (a statement rarely heard on ronfez.net)

[spoon]

I didnt know of Nauru either, and people live there.

Just cuz I didnt know something, doesnt make it untrue (a statement rarely heard on ronfez.net)

Your knowledge of not knowing is all-knowing.

CTC = sage

[cougarjake13]

Your knowledge of not knowing is all-knowing.

CTC = sage

cryme tyme and cena ???

[spoon]

6.5

Is this really possible? The Jays do actually play Boston 7 more times. Damn would that be fucking amazing!

Cito for manager of the year. I honestly say that with some hint of joking, but in reality the job he's done with this team once again is unreal. Simply put, Cito is an elite manager.

[lleeder]

If it got close you'd be forced to hope for the Yankees to save your team that last series at Fenway.

[Aneurysm]

Jays going after Manny. That a team I wasn't thinking about

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8705502/Jays-downplay-Manny-chances,-want-Burnett-back

[spoon]

Not a good idea, not with their finances. You simply can't tie up that much money, including a multi-year deal, for such an aging player. He's age will surely hit within this next contract, and sooner then most think. Even if it doesn't, I'm not big on this move. It's not like he can't help the O, but his salary will hurt in a bigger way then Thomas.

The Jays need to resign AJ, which they seem to be committed to doing, and add on the mound and perhaps a SS if available. The player doesn't seem to be out there, and I'd like to see Cito continue to utilize the farm system. Best case scenario is AJ comes back, McGowan and Janssen fill in for Marcum and the rotation looks like this.

Halladay
Burnett
McGowan
Janssen
Litch

The bullpen is quite solid with BJ coming into the second year after surgery which usually means much better numbers. League continues to regain his velocity and form, hitting 100+ mph and finishing with microscopic era. And Downs/Carlson give the Jays some serious bullpen lefties to use in the middle. If they could add a good long man it would help, but this isn't a major area of need either bc they also have a great amount of arms about ready to move up as well.

The biggest issue with this team is clutch hitting, the SS position and getting Rolen and Hill healthy. Both Hill and Rolen should be good to go, and Hill will help out a ton. The Jays boast two great utility players in Scutaro and Inglett and they both will be back. Now SS, a position manned by utility players all year with both those mentioned above and slick fielding John MacDonald as well. Here's the problem, MacDonald didn't stay healthy and didn't really field all that well last year. The big gain the Jays can make is at the SS position, but I'm not sure it's possible or if it has overall value as the Jays can rotate here again with the three utility players.

The outfield is a huge area of strength for the Jays and the reason again Manny just doesn't fit. If he did come to Toronto, I'm sure they'd either put him in left and DH the kids, or vice versa giving him a start 95% of the time. However, with the likes of a Lind/Snyder platoon in left/DH, I'm happy and would love to see them both get a ton of playing time to develop under Cito. That leaves Wells and Rios, both CFs by trade, but Rios is a little worse in instinct with his fielding. Both have good arms, with Rios getting a decent edge here even on a good arm from Wells bc Alex has a cannon. Also, they both have well above average speed which allows them to get to balls in the gap quickly and cover a ton of ground. On the basepaths, both can steal a good amount of bases too. Lind is by far the worst fielder in my mind, and he's average at the worst. Snyder has deceptive speed and defensive abilities, but he's not on the same level as the old LF, Reed Johnson or either Wells and Rios.

So in summary, the Jays need to address the starting pitching and SS position and find fills for the DH position with the rotation of utility players Scutaro and Inglett, when the team doesn't go with the player not in LF for the day, either Lind or Snyder. Both these guys hit for power and are very cheap. I never find it appealing to spend big money on the DH position unless you're a top 5 spending team. It just doesn't make sense. In the case of Manny, at least he can play a little LF too allowing u to use him in interleague play and giving the team a ton more options. Still, he's not a good fielder out there (especially without the short field in Fenway) and getting up there in age.

[K.C.]

I think letting A.J. go would be a blessing in disguise for the Blue Jays.

I'm not sure he's ultimately worth what he'll command, and the Jays investing heavily in him pretty much hampers any flexibility they have this offseason.

If I were them.

-Let A.J. walk.
-Target Rafael Furcal for SS, try and bring in Jason Giambi on a one or two year deal as a DH, and make a run at Derek Lowe and Jon Garland.

Their bullpen was pretty solid. Halladay's still an ace.

With B.J. Ryan back, they can also move Scott Downs into the rotation.

They mostly need offense, though, to avoid the horrific slump they went through during this season.

[spoon]

I think letting A.J. go would be a blessing in disguise for the Blue Jays.

I'm not sure he's ultimately worth what he'll command, and the Jays investing heavily in him pretty much hampers any flexibility they have this offseason.

If I were them.

-Let A.J. walk.
-Target Rafael Furcal for SS, try and bring in Jason Giambi on a one or two year deal as a DH, and make a run at Derek Lowe and Jon Garland.

Their bullpen was pretty solid. Halladay's still an ace.

With B.J. Ryan back, they can also move Scott Downs into the rotation.

They mostly need offense, though, to avoid the horrific slump they went through during this season.

I appreciate the analysis, but no fucking way on Giambi. They have more power in both Snyder and Lind's bats, and both are at least average in the field. To me, the DH position on teams in the middle salary range shouldn't be one invested in. Yes the Jays had issues early and during the middle of the season, but then again they had Denbo (ex-spank hitting instructor) who had them use a rediculously patient approach at the plate at all times. This not only took away almost any power the team had, it also was figured out by the other teams and Denbo never adjusted. I can't tell you how many times the Jays went into protect mode after going down 0-2, 1-2 or at best 2-2.

Once Tennace and Cito got their hands on the Jays their offense ignited. In fact, Rios hit for power and average again, Wells exploded once more (healthy too) and he brought up young sluggers Lind and Snyder who both hit very well. With the return of Hill in 2009, along with Rolen's shoulder finally getting proper time to heal, the Jays could become one of the top hitting teams in the league. The bench players all hit well (expect MacDonald), and they would have at least average power in all outfield spots and at the corners.

The Furcal option again is too much money for an ok player. If you ask me, u need to invest in pitching and find a good DEFENSIVE SS on the market. I actually want the Jays to put the money in AJ, he's won 10 games or more every year with the Jays, even with a lot of injuries and brings a lot to the clubhouse. The team loves the guy, and he was in the dugout for every game he was out with an injury.

As for Downs, I don't like the rotation option that much as he was used there in the past with fair results. He's been a 7/8 inning guy with an occasional matchup spot guy for so long now, I don't see it being a good move. He'll command a good salary being a lefty reliever for many years to come as well, so don't expect him to take that chance this late in his career.

The pitching pick up options you list are interesting, and I wouldn't be opposed to either if the price is right. If not, move on to the one being forgotten on the market as there always is one. Perfect world situation (which won't happen), is the Jays keep AJ and line up CC. Could you imagine the likes of Halladay, AJ and CC at the top of the rotation? They would then hand the ball to the likes of the 1-2 era crew of Downs, League, Carlson and BJ. That would fucking be outstanding, and I for one think if you're to throw any money around in this market, here is where it would be....not at Manny or even a little at Giambi or Furcal.

[K.C.]

I don't think Furcal is overrated at all. He's very good defensively, and he's the type of spark plug the Blue Jays could use in the top of their lineup.

That would be a great piece for them.

SS - Furcal
2B - Hill
DH - Lind
CF - Wells
RF - Rios
3B - Rolen
1B - Overbay
LF - Snider
C - Barajas

That'd be an interesting lineup. It also allows them to use Scutaro as a super utility type filling in here and there.


My problem with Burnett is I don't think he's worth the contract they're going to have to give him.

He's only thrown over 30 starts twice in the last six season, and he doesn't have great hits and walks to innings pitched splits, although he helps himself out with the strikeouts.

I'm ultimately not that convinced he's going to bring more to the table than a Lowe or Dempster or someone of that caliber over the next couple years.

Burnett's always been an enigma. Yet, he's going to command significantly more money, and years, than the others.

If I had the budget that the Blue Jays did, and the contracts on the books they already do, I wouldn't want to tie as much up in Burnett as he's going to command.

And I don't really see how they could be in on Sabathia. The way I figure it is they have about $30 million before arbitration, all their club contracts, and the Burnett decision.

If they sign Burnett, that'd eat up about half of that right there. If they let him walk, they'd be on the fringe of MAYBE being able to make Sabathia an offer (and keep in mind, the Yankees have around $90 million to play with, and C.C. on their radar).

Go with Furcal, add a solid starter behind Halladay, and maybe another outfielder for depth.

[spoon]

I don't think Furcal is overrated at all. He's very good defensively, and he's the type of spark plug the Blue Jays could use in the top of their lineup.

That would be a great piece for them.

SS - Furcal
2B - Hill
DH - Lind
CF - Wells
RF - Rios
3B - Rolen
1B - Overbay
LF - Snider
C - Barajas

That'd be an interesting lineup. It also allows them to use Scutaro as a super utility type filling in here and there.


My problem with Burnett is I don't think he's worth the contract they're going to have to give him.

He's only thrown over 30 starts twice in the last six season, and he doesn't have great hits and walks to innings pitched splits, although he helps himself out with the strikeouts.

I'm ultimately not that convinced he's going to bring more to the table than a Lowe or Dempster or someone of that caliber over the next couple years.

Burnett's always been an enigma. Yet, he's going to command significantly more money, and years, than the others.

If I had the budget that the Blue Jays did, and the contracts on the books they already do, I wouldn't want to tie as much up in Burnett as he's going to command.

And I don't really see how they could be in on Sabathia. The way I figure it is they have about $30 million before arbitration, all their club contracts, and the Burnett decision.

If they sign Burnett, that'd eat up about half of that right there. If they let him walk, they'd be on the fringe of MAYBE being able to make Sabathia an offer (and keep in mind, the Yankees have around $90 million to play with, and C.C. on their radar).

Go with Furcal, add a solid starter behind Halladay, and maybe another outfielder for depth.

You make a good both sides of the ball argument for Furcal, and I never said overrated, just about to be overpaid. Pretty much the same argument for me as you made for AJ. And trust me, if the Jays get AJ it'll be bc he gives them a discount of some magnitude. My argument overall is, how much of an upgrade is Furcal to Scutaro/Inglett/MacDonald since the Jays have all three which can play all the infield positions, and Scutaro and Inglett also can play the fucking outfield. That gives them a TON of flexibility. Because of this, I frown on the extra outfielder and would rather go pitching, pitching and maybe a defensive SS. Not sure Furcal is the answer, but you have made me hate the idea less.

[K.C.]

You make a good both sides of the ball argument for Furcal, and I never said overrated, just about to be overpaid. Pretty much the same argument for me as you made for AJ. And trust me, if the Jays get AJ it'll be bc he gives them a discount of some magnitude. My argument overall is, how much of an upgrade is Furcal to Scutaro/Inglett/MacDonald since the Jays have all three which can play all the infield positions, and Scutaro and Inglett also can play the fucking outfield. That gives them a TON of flexibility. Because of this, I frown on the extra outfielder and would rather go pitching, pitching and maybe a defensive SS. Not sure Furcal is the answer, but you have made me hate the idea less.

I agree that I'd have a price threshold on Furcal. I'm not sure I'd go more than 3 yrs, $36 million on him.

He's worth that, but not really any more. If he gets more, by all means, let him go. He'll get some decent offers. The Dodgers want him back. The Royals, of all people, are supposedly trying to make him priority number one during free agency.

He's a huge upgrade over Scutaro, though. Haven't seen much of Inglett, so I don't know a ton about him. Furcal will hit .300, steal 30-40 bases a season, and probably even drive in 70-75 runs from the leadoff spot in an AL lineup. And he's still only 30 years old, despite being around a whle.