Is President Bush sinking this country to make it impossible for next President?

[FMJeff]

http://thousandreasons.org/reasons.php

Today Bush announced our economy to be strong despite recent disastrous financial news, including the collapse of Wall Street firm Bear Sterns and rapidly inflating gasoline prices. He is either the world-class moron or completely ignorant. Anyone who picks up a newspaper can read America is going down the toilet financially, yet he has the audacity to say everything is ok...nothing to worry about.

Its my opinion he's not doing anything to help this country. This tax rebate is certainly not going to help. $600 per person? How's that going to help a bankrupt family losing their home?

So I ask you this. Do you think President Bush is intentionally piloting the country into a nosedive so the next President, most likely a Democrat due to profound distrust in the Republican base (attributed to his colossal mis-management of this country), will have a difficult time turning things around? It's an interesting strategy...the next president will most likely have to deal with a recession and an economic downturn...if its a Democrat, people will just blame the Democratic party for its failure to turn the country around and look to a Republican to "save us"...

What do you think?

[ChrisTheCop]

I believe that he, and the republican party, believe that John McCain will be our next president. Therefore, He, nor they, are purposely making it harder for him.

That kinda thing may come after their possible loss; perhaps theyll remove the "O"s from all the white house typewriters. tee hee.

[PapaBear]

I think he's just stupid an incompetent.

[scottinnj]

Carter was bad too, and Reagan led us out of the hole.

[K.C.]

eh...they'll just blame it on the black guy after another four years.

...Then Jeb will gear up for a 2012 run.

[scottinnj]

...Then Jeb will gear up for a 2012 run.


Let's hope not. This whole Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton(Maybe)-J Bush(Maybe) doesn't sit too well with me.

20 Years of either a Clinton or a Bush so far. Blech!

[Franklyn]

I don't think so. I think for the most part both sides want a strong America. Although strong for them, I don't think they would want to weaken the country for anyone.

[K.C.]

Let's hope not. This whole Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton(Maybe)-J Bush(Maybe) doesn't sit too well with me.

20 Years of either a Clinton or a Bush so far. Blech!

Actually, it's not that far of a stretch that Jeb will run in
'12, especially if Obama beats Hillary and carries that to win in '08. There's been quite a few things written about his seemingly absence from politics in general, and most say that's it's a calculated move on his part.

He's positioning himself to distance himself for his brother...then they'll try to work the angle where they blame most of the fallout from the GWB mistakes on Obama and run Jeb under the whole Compassionate Conservative angle from 2000.

[TeeBone]

http://thousandreasons.org/reasons.php

He is either the world-class moron or completely ignorant.

What do you think?

I think you are extremely misguided and give far too much credit to cable news Doom-and-Gloom.

THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!

[sailor]

i blame the chinese.

[Mike Teacher]

Is any Prez that powerful?

Is the Prez at the helm of the USA and steering it to where it goes? I think there are other people and forces, just as powerful, some that are global and completely out of the control of any single human or country.

The economy/state of the nation/world is like global temps; it goes up and down and no one really knows why at all.

[cupcakelove]

I think as long as his super rich friends stay super rich, he doesn't give shit about how anyone else is doing.

[Earlshog]

Let's hope not. This whole Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton(Maybe)-J Bush(Maybe) doesn't sit too well with me.

20 Years of either a Clinton or a Bush so far. Blech!

28 years in the whitehouse as old man Bush was there 8 years as VP

[Midkiff]

The country is already sunk beyond repair. Thanks Bush.

[topless_mike]

i think its too many chiefs, not enough indians.

i cant ever remember a time where "red state" "blue state" "democrat" "republican" ever meant so much.
you are either left or right. fart in the opposite direction, and you are exiled from your party and ridiculed. its sickening. too many personal agendas. what ever happened to working together?

while i think bush is a bumbling idiot, i think he has done a decent job, at least with he had to work with. what doesnt help him is the left opening saying that they will object everything bush presents, even before he's presented it. that closed minded ness isnt helping us move forward.

and the right is no better. im sure there are issues that they have cockblocked out of spite.

[Chigworthy]

I think it is easy to distract when the public is fooled into identifying with one party over the other, when they are really part of the same entity. We have a one-party system, and it's interests don't lie with the citizenry. It's a professional wrestling match, and we're the chumps in the crowd. Weird, I spelled crowd like "croud" and stared at it for a good 5 seconds, trying to figure out if it was correct or not.

[Midkiff]

i think he has done a decent job

You're out of your damn fool mind.

Wrong! Game over!

[underdog]

i blame the chinese.

Seriously. They have to be involved somehow.

[A.J.]

i blame the chinese.

Jeff?

[sailor]

Jeff?

(it is his thread, silly)

[Zorro]

The country is already sunk beyond repair. Thanks Bush.

It's Helter-Skelter time...

[foodcourtdruide]

i think its too many chiefs, not enough indians.

i cant ever remember a time where "red state" "blue state" "democrat" "republican" ever meant so much.
you are either left or right. fart in the opposite direction, and you are exiled from your party and ridiculed. its sickening. too many personal agendas. what ever happened to working together?

while i think bush is a bumbling idiot, i think he has done a decent job, at least with he had to work with. what doesnt help him is the left opening saying that they will object everything bush presents, even before he's presented it. that closed minded ness isnt helping us move forward.

and the right is no better. im sure there are issues that they have cockblocked out of spite.

I completely disagree with you. I think that Bush's faults go beyond partisan politics. I take the opposite approach as you. I blame the right for aligning themselves with him, even though he has gone completely against republican convention.

Name issues that the left has unfairly disagreed with Bush on? I think you're just trying to put equal blame on the right and the left. The blame falls with the Bush Administration and less so with figures on the right that act as Bush apologists.

[topless_mike]

Name issues that the left has unfairly disagreed with Bush on?

Iraq pullout
SCHIP bill
Interrogation methods
Intelligence methods (NSA wiretapping)

Im sure there are some more, but cannot think of anymore off the top of my head.

I simply offered my opinion, and do not wish to get into a debate of right/wrong.

[angrymissy]

Jeff?

You should have seen the heartbreaking confusion going on while he watched Bizarre Foods China.

"I want to go to China"
"But you hate the Chinese"
"But their food is so delicious"

[foodcourtdruide]

Iraq pullout
SCHIP bill
Interrogation methods
Intelligence methods (NSA wiretapping)

Im sure there are some more, but cannot think of anymore off the top of my head.

I simply offered my opinion, and do not wish to get into a debate of right/wrong.

lol, I understand we all have opinions, but I disagree with you.

I disagree with the four issues you noted above being "unfairly" disagreed with by the left. However, if you don't want to debate we can just drop it.

[DOHO@HOME]

The war is the fuckin down fall of our country right now.
We have spent so much money and cost us lives and not to talk about the poor troops that have to live the rest of their lives being disabled which also will cost everyone for a long time coming.
Why should we focus on other parts of the world and not put the focus right here in our own country.
fuckin $600.00 isn't going to bring this fuckin country around.
Wake up mother fuckers we are on a death ride and nobody is in the driver seat.:furious:

[A.J.]

You should have seen the heartbreaking confusion going on while he watched Bizarre Foods China.

"I want to go to China"
"But you hate the Chinese"
"But their food is so delicious"

Food can heal Jeff! Let go of your hate!

[FUNKMAN]

Is any Prez that powerful?

Is the Prez at the helm of the USA and steering it to where it goes? I think there are other people and forces, just as powerful, some that are global and completely out of the control of any single human or country.

The economy/state of the nation/world is like global temps; it goes up and down and no one really knows why at all.

Franklin Roosevelt

the bank owners said he couldn't close the banks down. well, he closed the banks down. plus he'll most likely in most polls be considered our greatest president.

[TheMojoPin]

You should have seen the heartbreaking confusion going on while he watched Bizarre Foods China.

"I want to go to China"
"But you hate the Chinese"
"But their food is so delicious"

The actual food in China usually a far cry from the westernized Chinese food we have here.

[Kevin]

The actual food in China usually a far cry from the westernized Chinese food we have here.

Yea, If you notice the food that the workers at the restaurants eat on their own lunch break, it is much much different.

[sailor]

Yea, If you notice the food that the workers at the restaurants eat on their own lunch break, it is much much different.

places by me it looks exactly the same. odd.

[Freitag]

Some Chinese restaurants will have signs in Chinese/Korean/Japanese out front to indicate they have "authentic" chinese food and/or asian cuisine. Same deal with the menus.

I'm starting to avoid chinese food.

Back on topic: Is it Bush's fault we're like this? Partially. But not entirely.

The buck does stop with him, but it's not his fault that shady mortgage brokers signed up bad subprime loans.

[Knowledged_one]

The actual food in China usually a far cry from the westernized Chinese food we have here.

Yeah here they pretend its chicken and not cat, over there they all know its cat

[angrymissy]

The actual food in China usually a far cry from the westernized Chinese food we have here.

Well, yes, we were watching "Bizarre Foods", they were eating fried Seahorses. Jeff would love that shit. Me, not so much. What was making him crazy was some type of open air nighttime food bazaar with tons of different kinds of foods the host was sampling.

We once went for Thai and he asked them to bring him what they would eat, and they brought some whole fish with a black sauce on it that smelled like hamster cage. I don't know how he ate it. NAst.

[TheMojoPin]

Well, yes, we were watching "Bizarre Foods", they were eating fried Seahorses. Jeff would love that shit. Me, not so much. What was making him crazy was some type of open air nighttime food bazaar with tons of different kinds of foods the host was sampling.

We once went for Thai and he asked them to bring him what they would eat, and they brought some whole fish with a black sauce on it that smelled like hamster cage. I don't know how he ate it. NAst.

He's a food anarchist.

[sailor]

Well, yes, we were watching "Bizarre Foods", they were eating fried Seahorses. Jeff would love that shit. Me, not so much. What was making him crazy was some type of open air nighttime food bazaar with tons of different kinds of foods the host was sampling.

We once went for Thai and he asked them to bring him what they would eat, and they brought some whole fish with a black sauce on it that smelled like hamster cage. I don't know how he ate it. NAst.

see if he'd like balut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut). it's seriously the most disgusting "food" i've ever heard of. saw it on some food network show or such a few weeks ago.

[underdog]

see if he'd like balut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut). it's seriously the most disgusting "food" i've ever heard of. saw it on some food network show or such a few weeks ago.

God. That sounds worse than Hákarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl), which I thought would be impossible.

[sailor]

God. That sounds worse than Hákarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl), which I thought would be impossible.

that sounds worse than a hot carl. funny if you click on the bizarre foods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarre_Foods_with_Andrew_Zimmern#Season_1) link on your page, the first item he samples is balut. and the circle is complete.

[Bulldogcakes]

http://thousandreasons.org/reasons.php

Today Bush announced our economy to be strong despite recent disastrous financial news, including the collapse of Wall Street firm Bear Sterns and rapidly inflating gasoline prices. He is either the world-class moron or completely ignorant. Anyone who picks up a newspaper can read America is going down the toilet financially, yet he has the audacity to say everything is ok...nothing to worry about.

Its my opinion he's not doing anything to help this country. This tax rebate is certainly not going to help. $600 per person? How's that going to help a bankrupt family losing their home?

So I ask you this. Do you think President Bush is intentionally piloting the country into a nosedive so the next President, most likely a Democrat due to profound distrust in the Republican base (attributed to his colossal mis-management of this country), will have a difficult time turning things around? It's an interesting strategy...the next president will most likely have to deal with a recession and an economic downturn...if its a Democrat, people will just blame the Democratic party for its failure to turn the country around and look to a Republican to "save us"...

What do you think?

Stocks soar, Dow rises 420 points (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street)

The Dow Jones industrial average soared 420 points, its biggest one-day point gain in more than five years.

Bush (and some of the rest of us) believe that the best thing for the Federal Government to do is nothing. Maybe the Treasury could tinker with the sinking dollar, but that's about it.

[AKA]

Carter was bad too, and Reagan led us out of the hole.

Carter wasn't the best President, but he was no where near as bad as Bush is. Carter inherited a severe recession from Ford, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis shit-canned any hope of Carter pulling anything through. And Reagan helped make sure that Carter couldn't do anything diplomatically by declaring that he wouldn't negotiate with terrorists during their campaign (something he would do years later as President - and even skievier, someone in his future administration - Rummy or Bush Sr - actually did during the heart of the crisis).

But let's all blame Carter.

Reagan's charm hid the a man who did more harm to our country than Richard Nixon (but not as much as GW Bush). He did not end communism (we are so totally pwned by China now, it should be a sitcom) - his economic policies are still contributing to what some economists are now calling "the twilight of America" - his presidency helped create modern terrorism thanks to his dealings with Saddam Hussain and the Contra rebels - and by breaking the unions the way he did, Ronny also layed the groundwork for what would become our little immigration issues.

But, to bring it back around on home - if Ronald Reagan hadn't pulled back all of Carter's energy policies we wouldn't be in half the problem we are in today.

http://www.funnymatt.com/images/Multimedia/reagan.jpg

[Bulldogcakes]

I cant find a thread for this, so here goes


<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer/flvplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="355" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/76060/video&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/DAUGHTER_TO_WAR_article.jpg&bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=Army%20Holds%20Annual%20%27Bring%20Your%20Da ughter%20To%20War%27%20Day"></embed><br/><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/army_holds_annual_bring_your?utm_source=embedded_v ideo">Army Holds Annual 'Bring Your Daughter To War' Day</a>

Love the Onion.

[Zorro]

Carter wasn't the best President, but he was no where near as bad as Bush is. Carter inherited a severe recession from Ford, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis shit-canned any hope of Carter pulling anything through. And Reagan helped make sure that Carter couldn't do anything diplomatically by declaring that he wouldn't negotiate with terrorists during their campaign (something he would do years later as President - and even skievier, someone in his future administration - Rummy or Bush Sr - actually did during the heart of the crisis).

But let's all blame Carter.

Reagan's charm hid the a man who did more harm to our country than Richard Nixon (but not as much as GW Bush). He did not end communism (we are so totally pwned by China now, it should be a sitcom) - his economic policies are still contributing to what some economists are now calling "the twilight of America" - his presidency helped create modern terrorism thanks to his dealings with Saddam Hussain and the Contra rebels - and by breaking the unions the way he did, Ronny also layed the groundwork for what would become our little immigration issues.

But, to bring it back around on home - if Ronald Reagan hadn't pulled back all of Carter's energy policies we wouldn't be in half the problem we are in today.

http://www.funnymatt.com/images/Multimedia/reagan.jpg

Lots of revisionist history there. Carter sucked! The feeling of desperation we have today...the sense of Presidential incompetence...the notion that the American experiment was at an end were palpable during the Carter presidency. Terms like "misery index" and "stagflation" came to define his economic policies. His domestic policy was a disaster and his giving away the Panama Canal has led to a Chinese presence in the hemisphere. He allowed Castro to make a fool of him with the Mariel Boat lift... dumping prisoners and mental patients on the US...the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and the Warsaw Pact seemed prepared at any moment to launch nuclear weapons. It was not a good time...

[FMJeff]

Stocks soar, Dow rises 420 points (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street)



Bush (and some of the rest of us) believe that the best thing for the Federal Government to do is nothing. Maybe the Treasury could tinker with the sinking dollar, but that's about it.

It's a one day spike from an interest rate drop. What does that have to do with the subprime fiasco, Bear Sterns collapse and the price of gas in this country?

Keep transcribing the republican newsletters, bulldogcakes...

[scottinnj]

It's a one day spike from an interest rate drop. What does that have to do with the subprime fiasco, Bear Sterns collapse and the price of gas in this country?

Keep transcribing the republican newsletters, bulldogcakes...

A lot. It's a huge infusion of cash into a market that is reeling from those situations you mentioned. It means companies that may have gone under without that rally will now be in business and have a chance to get competitive again. It means jobs saved and pensions not disappearing. This is good news for America, not just Republicans.

[badmonkey]

Banks are going to lose money because they made shitty loans to people that couldn't afford them. Those people are going to end up losing about the same amount of money in most cases as if they had paid rent for a year instead of buying a house they couldn't afford. The banks could work out deals with their customers and minimize their losses without taxpayer intervention. There's no reason we should get involved with bailing out companies that make poor business decisions.

This is what happens when you want it both ways. People bitch about high risk people not being able to get loans. This is what happens when a shitload of high risk people get loans and the economy takes a downturn.

[FMJeff]

A lot. It's a huge infusion of cash into a market that is reeling from those situations you mentioned. It means companies that may have gone under without that rally will now be in business and have a chance to get competitive again. It means jobs saved and pensions not disappearing. This is good news for America, not just Republicans.

So you're also buying into this cash infusion and interest rate drop will save our economy.

I guess time will tell. I am not so convinced.

[SinA]

I think he's just stupid an incompetent.

but not in that order. if that were the case he'd have bad ideas and then not be able to carry them out.

rather, he fucks everything up from the beginning and never even realizes.

[scottinnj]

So you're also buying into this cash infusion and interest rate drop will save our economy.

I guess time will tell. I am not so convinced.

Not really. I think you are thinking I mean the tax rebate. I'm talking about the real money that made it onto Wall Street today by real investors, not the dumb Monopoly money Bush and the Congress are borrowing from China.

The interest rate drop though is good for people re-doing their mortgages, but I don't know how it will affect the rate of inflation.

[scottinnj]

Banks are going to lose money because they made shitty loans to people that couldn't afford them. Those people are going to end up losing about the same amount of money in most cases as if they had paid rent for a year instead of buying a house they couldn't afford. The banks could work out deals with their customers and minimize their losses without taxpayer intervention. There's no reason we should get involved with bailing out companies that make poor business decisions.

This is what happens when you want it both ways. People bitch about high risk people not being able to get loans. This is what happens when a shitload of high risk people get loans and the economy takes a downturn.


Yes and no. There would be people who wind up not being able to afford their mortgages, but it also didn't mean set a whole bunch of them up in variable interest rate loans that were only guaranteed to go up due to the Federal Rates being so low.

The other downfall is that more expensive homes pop up in neighborhoods that weren't designed for McMansions. The property values of the entire neighborhood goes up artificially, thus property taxes go up artificially as well, causing even more stress to people in homes they can no longer afford because their taxes on those home go up beyond their budgets.
So its a double-negative. Not only do the dummies who signed mortgage agreements they could never afford to pay lose their homes, more people wind up selling the homes that are already there at prices that barely match what their mortgage payoff is, or they also get foreclosed for failing to pay their taxes, which in turn causes financial stress for the township for seizing homes that will never generate the tax revenue needed to pay for city services.
EVERYBODY got greedy on this one. The homeowners who saw a McMansion that was better then their neighbor's house-the owners in those neighborhoods who allowed the developers in hoping their homes would go up in value so they could sell them and retire, and the city governments who wanted the tax revenue to pay for shiny new police cars and spiffy looking garbage trucks.

Fuck them all. Now they all pay. My wife and I have a great plan to weather through this.
We paid 100 grand for our home, and when it was appraised at a buck fifty, we let the outside go to hell to make it look like a redneck home, keeping our appraisal from going any higher and keeping our taxes down. Meanwhile the 350,000 and 500,000 dollar homeowners that surrounded us 3 years ago are struggling, dumping their shitbox Khov houses back to the developer who can't find buyers.

[FUNKMAN]

This is what happens when you want it both ways. People bitch about high risk people not being able to get loans. This is what happens when a shitload of high risk people get loans and the economy takes a downturn.

there has to be something more to what went on here. there are millions of people foreclosing and somebody somewhere had to know it was going to happen but allowed it to happen but for what reason?

a question that comes to my mind is: who would be living in these homes if they didn't sell them to people who couldn't afford them, who would have bought them? would they have stayed empty which is what is going on now?

there were a certain few who profited mightily from this mess and some may consider them "savy investors". I would say there are a good number of crooks who profited and it will be 'business as usual' and they will in most cases get away with it

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I will just point out that no matter how fucked up this country's economy gets, America will not be fucked forever. Just maybe ours and our children's and our children's children's lifetimes will be all fucked up. But y'know. Germany had a bad depression and look how they turned out from there!

...Yeah.

[scottinnj]

who would be living in these homes if they didn't sell them to people who couldn't afford them, who would have bought them? would they have stayed empty which is what is going on now?


I don't know about where you live, but for where I live, these houses wouldn't have been built in the first place. I swear to God, my county, and South Jersey in general has had more development done to it in the past 6 years then any other part of the East Coast.
It's been horrifying to see. We have started in our county a program to have the county buy plots of land to keep developers from more building. One estimate during the 2004 election cycle estimated that if the trend kept going, we were looking at at least 50,000 homes by 2010.

[Zorro]

there has to be something more to what went on here. there are millions of people foreclosing and somebody somewhere had to know it was going to happen but allowed it to happen but for what reason?

a question that comes to my mind is: who would be living in these homes if they didn't sell them to people who couldn't afford them, who would have bought them? would they have stayed empty which is what is going on now?

there were a certain few who profited mightily from this mess and some may consider them "savy investors". I would say there are a good number of crooks who profited and it will be 'business as usual' and they will in most cases get away with it

The FBI announced today that it was investigating 17 big mortgage companies for possible violatons of Federal Law. It won't be much, but expect a few people to go to jail

[FUNKMAN]

I don't know about where you live, but for where I live, these houses wouldn't have been built in the first place. I swear to God, my county, and South Jersey in general has had more development done to it in the past 6 years then any other part of the East Coast.
It's been horrifying to see. We have started in our county a program to have the county buy plots of land to keep developers from more building. One estimate during the 2004 election cycle estimated that if the trend kept going, we were looking at at least 50,000 homes by 2010.

yeah, and then what happens? Wall Street analysts look down upon "new home sales" and the homebuilding guys and investors take a beaten.

I think it's time they pay homebuilders not to build like they pay farmers not to farm and let the existing homes get sold or repaired/upgraded and sold. The home builders should go into the "home repair or improvement" business till there is a better balance

not a perfect idea but unless somebody starts paying a vast amount of americans a decent salary where they can afford a mortgage then we're gonna have empty houses which will lead to vandalism and a drop in property values

the country will look like one big Atlantic City

[keithy_19]

Is President Bush sinking this country to make it impossible for next president?

No. He's just making it a lot more fun for them. :happy:

[badmonkey]

I think it's time they pay homebuilders not to build like they pay farmers not to farm and let the existing homes get sold or repaired/upgraded and sold.

No no no no no no no no no. Paying people not to work is absolutely not the solution to any of the problems we have in this country. I agree with the part about them going into the home repair business, but they can do that on their own without getting a paycheck from the American taxpayer.

These developers already have to get these massive projects approved by the local governments before they can ever even start. You don't want them to start, go to your local town/county meetings and speak against it or run for local office and prevent it yourself.

[Bulldogcakes]

This is what happens when you want it both ways. People bitch about high risk people not being able to get loans. This is what happens when a shitload of high risk people get loans and the economy takes a downturn.

BINGO! Somebody finally nailed it. The Bush administration wanted to increase home ownership, figuring that people who own homes tend to vote for guys like him. So they encouraged low money down loans, provided financing, loosened restrictions and barriers to home ownership. All sounded great at the time, except to cynics like me with a little business sense.

There are sound economic reasons why bankers have asked for 20% down for most of the past 50 years. It gives financial institutions a safe cushion liquidate the property and recover their investment if the property goes into foreclosure. There are also behavioral reasons why its a good idea. People who have to work and save for years to buy a home will be a bit older and more responsible by the time they buy it, they'll likely be earning more money by then and be less likely to walk away the minute things go bad.

This is what happens when Republicans behave like Liberals.

[TheMojoPin]

BINGO! Somebody finally nailed it. The Bush administration wanted to increase home ownership, figuring that people who own homes tend to vote for guys like him. So they encouraged low money down loans, provided financing, loosened restrictions and barriers to home ownership. All sounded great at the time, except to cynics like me with a little business sense.

There are sound economic reasons why bankers have asked for 20% down for most of the past 50 years. It gives financial institutions a safe cushion liquidate the property and recover their investment if the property goes into foreclosure. There are also behavioral reasons why its a good idea. People who have to work and save for years to buy a home will be a bit older and more responsible by the time they buy it, they'll likely be earning more money by then and be less likely to walk away the minute things go bad.

This is what happens when Republicans behave like Liberals.

This is a major factor, but it's not the lone cause to the current situation. Nice of you to dress it up to take a pointless and incorrect cheap shot at the end, though. Logically, you'd think someone would look at the larger picture as to why less and less people are able to buy a house without everything eventualy falling apart. What would be "nailed" is that fewer and fewer people are able to afford large purchases like homes until much, much, much later in life, if at all. We have a consumers' republic that for decades existed under the idea that America produced and consumed at mutually increasing levels. Those factors have now branched waaaaaay off from each other, and we're paying the price. How is the housing market supposed (and consumers) to keep up when the reduced production levels are leading to increasingly stagnant wages that aren't even close to keeping up with the expected or necessary purchasing levels?

[Bulldogcakes]

This is a major factor, but it's not the lone cause to the current situation. Nice of you to dress it up to take a pointless and incorrect cheap shot at the end, though.

As always, you misread what I post. That's not a cheap shot at Liberals, its a jab at REPUBLICANS. Its another way of saying "leave Liberalism to the Liberals, they're better at it than we are"

Logically, you'd think someone would look at the larger picture as to why less and less people are able to buy a house without everything eventualy falling apart. What would be "nailed" is that fewer and fewer people are able to afford large purchases like homes until much, much, much later in life, if at all. We have a consumers' republic that for decades existed under the idea that America produced and consumed at mutually increasing levels. Those factors have now branched waaaaaay off from each other, and we're paying the price. How is the housing market supposed (and consumers) to keep up when the reduced production levels are leading to increasingly stagnant wages that aren't even close to keeping up with the expected or necessary purchasing levels?

Ugh. I don't know where to start. Let me latch onto one point where I think you're close. Wages weren't rising as fast as prices were, so there was no solid economic reason for housing prices to be rising as fast as they did. Housing prices were driven at first by the low interest rates after 9/11, aided by some of the Bush policies I mentioned, and eventually became driven by loads of speculation from individuals, small time "House filppers" and big investment house REITs. The weak dollar (also a Bush policy-Treasury dept) pushed prices up on the east and west coasts from foreign buyers, where prices rose the most.

Of course its too simplistic to ignore market factors and put it all on any one Bush policy, but the push to get low income people buying homes was a big contributing factor. Especially in the SUB PRIME area, which is the one going kablooey right now.

[TheMojoPin]

As always, you misread what I post. That's not a cheap shot at Liberals, its a jab at REPUBLICANS. Its another way of saying "leave Liberalism to the Liberals, they're better at it than we are"



Ugh. I don't know where to start. Let me latch onto one point where I think you're close. Wages weren't rising as fast as prices were, so there was no solid economic reason for housing prices to be rising as fast as they did. Housing prices were driven at first by the low interest rates after 9/11, aided by some of the Bush policies I mentioned, and eventually became driven by loads of speculation from individuals, small time "House filppers" and big investment house REITs. The weak dollar (also a Bush policy-Treasury dept) pushed prices up on the east and west coasts from foreign buyers, where prices rose the most.

Of course its too simplistic to ignore market factors and put it all on any one Bush policy, but the push to get low income people buying homes was a big contributing factor. Especially in the SUB PRIME area, which is the one going kablooey right now.

The bottom line to me is how does anyone expect the group os housebuyers to increase as wages stagnate and more middle class/white collar "office" jobs go overseas? The buying power of the middle class is only getting weaker and weaker, and the inability to make big purchases like houses is where it starts with that group. This isn't a "Bush problem," this is a New Economy problem that's been festering since the late 80's that's only going to get worse. You subtract the jobs from the buying masses, they can't buy as much. You pay them relatively less as time and the economy moves on, they can't buy as much. It happened first with the blue collar workers, and now it's hitting the middle classes and the white collars. I think within a few years you'll see the automotive industry taking hits as well.

[Bulldogcakes]

The bottom line to me is how does anyone expect the group os housebuyers to increase as wages stagnate and more middle class/white collar "office" jobs go overseas? The buying power of the middle class is only getting weaker and weaker, and the inability to make big purchases like houses is where it starts with that group. This isn't a "Bush problem," this is a New Economy problem that's been festering since the late 80's that's only going to get worse. You subtract the jobs from the buying masses, they can't buy as much. You pay them relatively less as time and the economy moves on, they can't buy as much. It happened first with the blue collar workers, and now it's hitting the middle classes and the white collars. I think within a few years you'll see the automotive industry taking hits as well.

And my inital point was that I think that's a fools errand. Everyone doesn't deserve to own a home, those who prove their creditworthiness do. Many people are simply too irresponsible or not willing to do what it takes, and an investment worth hundreds of thousands of dollars shouldn't come easily. Were seeing the fallout right now of trying to include people who don't make the cut.

[TheMojoPin]

And my inital point was that I think that's a fools errand. Everyone doesn't deserve to own a home, those who prove their creditworthiness do. Many people are simply too irresponsible or not willing to do what it takes, and an investment worth hundreds of thousands of dollars shouldn't come easily. Were seeing the fallout right now of trying to include people who don't make the cut.

I'm not saying everyone "deserves" to own a home. That's a false point. What I am saying is that less and less people can afford to own homes, yet more and more homes are being made. Something has to give. The key problem overall is too many people people being unable to buy homes. Blaming this on delinquent buyers is not coincidentally akin to attacking welfare because of the "rampant welfare abusers" boogeyman. Blaming this on "bad buyers" as if exlcuding them or leaving them out will "fix" the housing market it pointless since it does nothing to address the income gap. If you magically removed the "bad buyers," you're still stuck with a quickly shrinking group of wannabe buyers who can't afford to buy homes. Painting everyone who is unable to follow through on a home purchase as "bad guys" (scammers, irresponsible, whatever) is incredibly shortsighted. Blaming them for this overall problem is like blaming a woodpecker for knocking down a house made of rotten wood.

[Furtherman]

http://thousandreasons.org/reasons.php

Today Bush announced our economy to be strong despite recent disastrous financial news, including the collapse of Wall Street firm Bear Sterns and rapidly inflating gasoline prices. He is either the world-class moron or completely ignorant. Anyone who picks up a newspaper can read America is going down the toilet financially, yet he has the audacity to say everything is ok...nothing to worry about.

Its my opinion he's not doing anything to help this country. This tax rebate is certainly not going to help. $600 per person? How's that going to help a bankrupt family losing their home?

So I ask you this. Do you think President Bush is intentionally piloting the country into a nosedive so the next President, most likely a Democrat due to profound distrust in the Republican base (attributed to his colossal mis-management of this country), will have a difficult time turning things around? It's an interesting strategy...the next president will most likely have to deal with a recession and an economic downturn...if its a Democrat, people will just blame the Democratic party for its failure to turn the country around and look to a Republican to "save us"...

What do you think?

I think you called it.

[A.J.]

I think you called it.

I think Boehner has to "save us" first.

[sailor]

So Bush was some Machiavellian genius and Obama was dumb enough to run for office with no chance of fixing the situation? Interesting.

[Furtherman]

I don't agree that it was a "strategy", but it has come to pass like some self fulfilling prophesy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dubya knocked down the towers too

[Jujubees2]

Dubya knocked down the towers too

And traded Sammy Sosa

[TripleSkeet]

So Bush was some Machiavellian genius and Obama was dumb enough to run for office with no chance of fixing the situation? Interesting.

No but Ill tell you what, it sure does seem that the republicans have no serious interest in having the Presidency in the middle of this mess. If they were they wouldnt keep rolling out moronic women who have no chance of winning like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin as their front runners. They are almost guaranteeing Obama a 2nd term, and why not? Its so much easier to just point fingers at him and blame the Democrats for not fixing this colossal fuckup that is the US then it is to take over and try to fix it yourself.

[A.J.]

If they were they wouldnt keep rolling out moronic women who have no chance of winning like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin as their front runners.

It's either that or more old white guys.

[CruelCircus]

I think Boehner has to "save us" first.

Vote Jericho, 2012.

[TripleSkeet]

It's either that or more old white guys.

People will vote for the old white guys. At least they usually had half a brain. These women arent qualified to run a fucking 7/11 let alone a country. If the Reps want any chance in this next election, theyll find a smart man with some speaking skills, and throw him in there.

[hanso]

Dubya knocked down the towers too

Big words.


I cringe when I hear that clip. It was the WTC not building blocks.

[keithy_19]

It's either that or more old white guys.

D_Spy?

:wub:

[spoon]

D_Spy?

:wub:

Nah, he's grey and all juandicey!

[Zorro]

People will vote for the old white guys. At least they usually had half a brain. These women arent qualified to run a fucking 7/11 let alone a country. If the Reps want any chance in this next election, theyll find a smart man with some speaking skills, and throw him in there.

It's still a free country and anyone can run. Even Dennis K from Ohio. I think Palin/Bachman are bat shit crazy, but there's a certain amount of misogyny in the coverage of these two. Besides I'm pretty sure with the exception of the Big Boned Houswife set and some on the far left everyone knows they have no shot at winning. So, why really give a crap ?

[TripleSkeet]

It's still a free country and anyone can run. Even Dennis K from Ohio. I think Palin/Bachman are bat shit crazy, but there's a certain amount of misogyny in the coverage of these two. Besides I'm pretty sure with the exception of the Big Boned Houswife set and some on the far left everyone knows they have no shot at winning. So, why really give a crap ?

I really dont. But if this is who youre putting out there as your party's candidates, how much can you really want to win?

It would be like the Mavericks sitting Dirk Nowitski during the Finals and starting his backup instead. How much can they honestly expect to win?

[sailor]

I don't agree that it was a "strategy", but it has come to pass like some self fulfilling prophesy.

or obama's not doing a good job. equally as valid a supposition.

[spoon]

I really dont. But if this is who youre putting out there as your party's candidates, how much can you really want to win?

It would be like the Mavericks sitting Dirk Nowitski during the Finals and starting his backup instead. How much can they honestly expect to win?

This is the USA, don't be so surprised.

[sailor]

I really dont. But if this is who youre putting out there as your party's candidates, how much can you really want to win?

It would be like the Mavericks sitting Dirk Nowitski during the Finals and starting his backup instead. How much can they honestly expect to win?

they're putting themselves out there. they won't win the nomination.

[keithy_19]

they're putting themselves out there. they won't win the nomination.

He can't. He's from Germany. (insert Obama Kenya comment)

[cougarjake13]

I really dont. But if this is who youre putting out there as your party's candidates, how much can you really want to win?

It would be like the Mavericks sitting Dirk Nowitski during the Finals and starting his backup instead. How much can they honestly expect to win?

which is why i thought they had mc cain in the last election

they saw the momemtum obama was gathering and said fuck it and threw out mccain n palin so as not to fuck up the futures of other republicans candidates

[Pitdoc]

It's still a free country and anyone can run. Even Dennis K from Ohio. I think Palin/Bachman are bat shit crazy, but there's a certain amount of misogyny in the coverage of these two. Besides I'm pretty sure with the exception of the Big Boned Houswife set and some on the far left everyone knows they have no shot at winning. So, why really give a crap ?

Uh, actually, the Repubs in Ohio are gerrymandering Dennis K's seat out of existence

[Jujubees2]

Uh, actually, the Repubs in Ohio are gerrymandering Dennis K's seat out of existence

Yeah but he's thinking of moving to Washington and taking a seat out there.

[cougarjake13]

Yeah but he's thinking of moving to Washington and taking a seat out there.

it shouldnt be that easy to do that

[Crash]

I really dont. But if this is who youre putting out there as your party's candidates, how much can you really want to win?

It would be like the Mavericks sitting Dirk Nowitski during the Finals and starting his backup instead. How much can they honestly expect to win?

So right now, who's the Republican's power forward?

[spoon]

their power bottom is obviously Karl Rove

[A.J.]

it shouldnt be that easy to do that

Tell that to Bobby Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

[cougarjake13]

Tell that to Bobby Kennedy and Hillary Clinton.

i know thats what im saying


ohhh this aint working ill just move


or even worse when they switch parties


that right there shows its a flawed system