UFC/MMA Discussion

[Crippler]

UFC 82 is this Saturday Night. Looks like a really good card the UFC is putting out there this month.

I’m writing to hopefully get some MMA discussion going on this board, something it is severely lacking. But I do so as a novice fan, so feel free to skewer me if I speak totally out of school.

Here’s my wordy 2¢ on this card…

~~Main Card~~

UFC Middleweight Championship (Unification):Anderson “The Spider” Silva (UFC Champion) vs. “Hollywood” Dan Henderson (PRIDE Champion) - Silva was named FIGHT! Magazine’s #1 pound-for-pound fighter in late October. He will forever be engrained in my mind as the guy who made Chris Leben his bitch in short order & FUCKED UP a guy who I had as much respect for as anyone in MMA, Rich Franklin. He almost looks too big for this weightclass; I want to see him fight the Lidell’s & Shogun Rua’s of the sport because he seems to just overmatch the middleweights. That being said, Dan Henderson was recently a Light Heavyweight & is certainly a world class fighter, so maybe this will be a better fight than I’m anticipating.

Heavyweights:
Heath Herring vs. Cheick Kongo – Kongo has looked like a bad m-f’er in his few UFC fights that I’ve seen. Herring has never looked anything more than sloppy in the few fights I’ve seen him in. However, I’m fairly new in my MMA fan-dom, and I know Herring was once considered one of the top heavyweights in the world, so again this could very well be a hell of a fight.

Middleweights:
Yushin Okami vs. Evan Tanner – Yushin Okami is the last man to defeat Anderson Silva (although by DQ) & has fed on TUF cast members (Starnes, Singer, Swick) in the last two years before being picked apart by Rich Franklin during his comeback through the middleweight ranks. Then he was impressive again in a unanimous decision over Jason MacDonald at UFC 77. Tanner is a former Middleweight Champion, but hasn’t fought much in the last two years as he’s been doing battle with the ever tricky “personal demons.” Seems like the UFC is using a former big name to ‘put over’ (if I may regress to Rasslin’ lingo) Okami on his way up the middleweight ranks. I doubt Tanner will be a walk-over, but I would be surprised if Okami lost.

Welterweights:
Chris Wilson vs. Jon Fitch – Fitch has been fighting (& winning) three times a year since 2003 and is currently on a 14 fight win streak which includes a split decision victory over Diego Sanchez in September. All I know about Chris Wilson is that he was an injury replacement for Akihiro Gono & trains with Team Quest. Wilson is 13-3, but I don’t know who he has fought.

Middleweights:
Alessio Sakara vs. Chris Leben – I remember Sakara having a lot of hype before the first fight of his that I saw live (UFC 57) & went out & looked pretty impressive against Elvis Sinosec. Then he went on to lose three of his next four fights, including a 90 second, 1st round whoopin’ at the hands of Houston Alexander in September. He came back & made short work of James Lee in January, but I don’t know quite what to make of him. Being a boxer originally, I think that he & Leben will stand toe to toe & just slug it out. Leben is only 2-3 in his last five fights, but both his wins have been by KO, so I think this could be a good fight as well.

~~Undercard~~

Heavyweights:
Jake O’Brien vs. Andrei Arlovski – Since losing to Pedro Rizzo in 2002, Arlovski is 8-2 with his only losses coming to Tim Silvia. The former Heavyweight Champion faces an undefeated 23 year old wrestler with heavy hands who fought & won 7 times in 2006, but only once in 2007. That ’07 fight was a 3 round decision victory over Heath Herring. Since then O’Brien has been recovering from what was thought to be possible a career ending spinal injury. If O’Brien is truly 100%, this should be a great fight.

Welterweights:
Luigi Fioravanti vs. Luke Cummo – Fiorvanti has losses to two other fighters on this card (Leben & Fitch) in his brief UFC career, but is 3-2 overall in that time with his last decision being a victory in June. This fight may not make the PPV airing, but I’ll be rooting for former TUF runner-up Luke Cummo because, if memory serves me right, he’s a buddy of one of our fellow board members & a (semi-) local Long Island boy. I’m sure training with Matt Serra has served him well & I hope we get to see this fight.

Welterweights:
Dustin Hazelett vs. Josh Koscheck – Although I wouldn’t want to be the guy who was slated to fight Josh Kocheck after a loss (to GSP in August), I will be rooting big time for Hazelett in this fight. Mainly this is because I HATE JOSH KOSCHECK. I don’t know what it is, but he’s the one fighter in the UFC that I want to punch in the face every time I see him. Granted, he would tie me in knots & break me if I ever said this to his face, but I just don’t like the guy. I recognize, however, that he is incredibly talented & should win this fight. Hazelett, from what little I’ve been able to read about him, is a young & fast rising name in MMA. He is a BJJ brown belt, which should serve him at least in defense of Kos’ great wrestling skills. You never know what can happen in a fight so I would love to see this one…but unfortunately it is so far down the card, it’s not likely to air without a few quick knockouts/stoppages elsewhere in the night.

Welterweights:
David Bielkheden vs. Diego Sanchez – Diego was on quite a roll after winning TUF2. With unanimous decisions over Nick Diaz, John Alessio, Karo Parisyan, and a KO of Joe Riggs he was riding a wave. Then he was just flat-out outworked by Josh Koscheck (he was apparently sick) last April & then ran into a red hot John Fitch in September. I know nothing of David Bielkheden other than he is a Swede who trains with Brazilian Top Team. Although the over-the-top prayer rituals get a bit annoying at times, I like watching Diego fight, but it’s not likely this one will be seen by anyone not in the Nationwide Arena.

Lightweights:
John Halverson vs. Jorge Gurgel – I was rooting for Jorge in his TUF series because he was a friend (and as I later found out a training partner) of Rich Franklin, but he was not very impressive in the few fights I have seen. If he can get Halverson to the ground he should be able to use his BJJ (black belt, I believe) to work Halverson over, who I know nothing about except that he is a boxer. If Jorge cannot take him down, however, he could be in for trouble because his stand-up has been suspect in what little I’ve seen of him.

So…whaddaya think fellas? Anyone else going to buy this PPV?

Also of note, I think this is the first time (first I’ve read, at least) that the UFC is selling an online stream of this PPV. They’re already making the same mistake the WWE made shortly after the debut of their online stream of PPVs, charging the same as cable/dish pricing.

Now that the fights have gone up $5 the last two months (from $39.99 to $44.99), wouldn’t it be smart to offer the fringe fan a cheaper alternative? I think WWE did this for a few months back in 2004 or so. Buy the PPV from your cable/satellite provider for $40 or watch a less-than-stellar but sufficient stream of the fight for $20-$25 online.

Except for the atypical occasion (travel or some other rare event that takes you away from your home TV), why would you spend $45 to watch a PPV on your 15”-or-so laptop screen when you can watch it on your average 27 to 64” main home television at the same price?

Just seems like a silly idea to me, but what the hell do I know about business anyway?

[PhishHead]

I am just going to respond quickly because I am lazy and already type a huge post on sherdog.

You are underestimating Hendo I think. Anderson Silva is amazing and definitely #1 p4p fighter right now. But Hendo is no slouch. He is a world class greco-roman wrestler which people tend to forget is all about the clinch, which is Silva's strength as well. So unlike Rich or anyone else who Silva has fought, Hendo actually has experience in the clinch and is pretty dominating in it as well, basically similar to Couture.

Silva again is a bigger middleweight, but definitely not big enough to compete with bigger LHW. Same with Hendo. Silva is actually bigger then Hendo, but the difference being Hendo actually normally faced smaller LHW until he faced Rampage, and he did a pretty damn good job at it.

Hendo is a hard hard puncher but tends to throw wildly, silva is a precise striker with punches from all angles not as hard as Hendo but definitely always right on the button.
People are anticipating HEndo taking Silva down, which would be quite easy for Hendo to do considering he could probably take down anyone in MMA. Now here is where its going to be a weird battle. Silva is an amazing bjj artist, BUT the one thing he sucks at is maintaining control on the ground. He gives up side control very easily which is where Hendo loves to be. So we shall see which fighter can impose their will.

Can't wait to see how strong Silva's chin is and how much punishment can Hendo's chin can take with a striker who is so precise. Hendo has probably the best chin in the business.

Okay I wrote alot more then I wanted so I am just going to say who I think will win each fight:

Hendo

Cheick (this is a bad bad fight. Cheick has no ground game, herring has a good ground game but is always reluctant to use it. )

Okami V Tanner (probably the fight I am waiting for. Tanner was one of my favorites before he became quite the alcoholic. Okami is probably one of the strongest middleweights out there. He could have dominated Franklin easily just like he did in the 3rd round, but was way too tentative. Okami will win because of the Tanner ring rust)

Wilson v Fitch (first UFC fight for Wilson, Fitch is too good, Fitch wins easily)

Leben wins even though I hate him.

Andrei v O'Brien - too bad this fight is on the undercard I really want to see it. Actually I think the undercard is a little better then the main card. Total toss up fight. It is Andrei's last fight on his UFC contract, it doesn't look like he will resign. O'Brien coming off a horrible neck injury, and Andrei hasn't fought since January 2007, both fighters will have ring rust and I am sure the first round or maybe first two rounds will be a feeling out period and show alot of ring rust.

Cummo v Fioravanti - this will be a great fight. Cummo awesome muay thai fighter. Fioravanti is a really good boxer. Cummo more precise striker, Fioravanti more power in his punches. Very similar to the Silva/Hendo fight. I want Cummo to win, even though the dude drinks his own piss.

Kos v Hazlett - Kos should win.

Gurgel v Halverson - Gurgel always makes me laugh since he is such a bitch. Gurgel has great BJJ skills and trains everyone but it almost seems everyone he trains becomes a black belt in bjj in like 3 months. Once he gets punched he runs away. Except Halverson to punch him and gurgel to bitch out and lose.

oh yea Sanchez wins too.


Yes I was quite pissed about the online streaming being the same price. But here is the thing they are offering an HD version of the stream of 1200k. It should be interesting to see how many they actually sell of it.

[MM2]

Anderson Silva is thinking of dropping to 170. If he can cut that much weight then he's going to roll through that division too. I had wanted very badly to see Silva/St. Pierre, but I just don't know if St. Pierre can hang.

St. Pierre does have superior wrestling and Hendo showed that maybe Silva's only weakness is the ease at which you can take him down and pretty much control him on the ground. The problem is Silva doesn't take damage from the ground, and with his BJJ background is dangerous from his back.

The only way I see Silva losing is if someone can control him on the ground for 5 rounds and grind out a decision. Hendo won that first round by controlling Silva on the ground, but he wasn't able to keep away from that knee in the second that took so much out of him.

To beat Silva you'll have to have a strong chin, be a strong wrestler, have a good defensive standup game, and hopefully have knockout power.

The fight I want to see is Silva/Page. Rampage will have the clear strength advantage, and is a good wrestler, he did out wrestle Hendo. I think Silva is making a smart decision to drop to 170 instead of going up to 205 because St. Pierre is the only real challenge at 170, but there are a few fighters who can hang with him at 205.

[Crippler]

I saw that post-fight interview where Silva said he had no intention of moving up a weight class, but when he mentioned the idea of dropping down a weightclass I thought he was joking. He's already a big 185 pounder, how the hell could he drop to 170 without draining himself? A fight with GSP would be entertaining, but I doubt it will happen.

[PhishHead]

why cant the UFC just sign Lindland i wish Dana would stop being a c-sucker.

He wont fight filho because they are teammates. Lindland is the only logical choice for him at 185.

There is no way Silva fights at 170 he already walks around at 200-205, 170 would be impossible for him to cut and he would be drained.

They would need a catch weight somewhere in between.

Okami most likely gets the next shot.

[Ritalin]

I was seriously concerned after the first round. Hendo had him on his back for most of it, and while he didn't do that much damage, I felt like it was only a matter of time. When it's striker v wrestler, the wrestler usually wins (see Hughes, Matt).

I know Silva is a bbj black belt, but I think a smart wrester with enough bbj experience to avoid submissions always wins from the top.

But Silva's different. You can't give him a second, not one second. He's deadly. My favorite fighter by far.

As much as it kills me to say this, I don't think MMA has jumped the shark, but the Fonz is on his bike, and getting ready to speed across the parking lot at Arnold's. Bumping the ppv price to $45 and then putting more yet weaker cards is going to drive me away. The Sanchez fight should have been a part of the ppv card, but they saved it thinking I was going to pay more to see it online. Fuck you. I paid $45 for the ppv, and then I have to pay more to see the rest of the card online? They're doing it on purpose, putting a TUF fighter online, but I'm not biting.

Then they spend all that time promoting a ppv event from London with Liddell v TBA?! Are you fucking kidding me? That tells me that they don't even care about the matchups. Liddell can't headline a card by himself without an opponent. He's not even a titleholder. That's a joke.

And Joe Rogan is starting to get on my nerves, and I like him. He's even got Mike Goldberg doing the same crap. Guys, I'm watching the same thing that you are. You don't have to tell me about every stinking leg kick. Seriously, now that I've mentioned it, watch for it. They have to announce every single leg kick. They don't bring much to the table at all. I wish they'd settle up with Randy and put him in Joe's chair. He is excellent, and actually knows what's going on in the ring.

And that's the end of my post.

Donk.

[PhishHead]

Liddell is facing Rua thats already been announced and confirmed by both fighters. That fight along is good enough for $45

[MM2]

why cant the UFC just sign Lindland i wish Dana would stop being a c-sucker.

He wont fight filho because they are teammates. Lindland is the only logical choice for him at 185.

There is no way Silva fights at 170 he already walks around at 200-205, 170 would be impossible for him to cut and he would be drained.

They would need a catch weight somewhere in between.

Okami most likely gets the next shot.

March 02, 2008




<<Anderson Silva is amazing. At 4:52 of the second round he solidified his place atop the middleweight division along with providing fodder for any pound for pound debate, with a decisive win over “Dangerous” Dan Henderson.
Silva, as expected, related in an interview with UFC.com his elation over his victory and doted over his fallen foe. Silva then disclosed two possible courses of action, as he has essentially cleaned out the UFC Middleweight division with exception of a rematch with Yushin Okami.

“Spider” expressed desire to match up with any 185 lb. professional boxer, taking offense to a perceived lack of respect of MMA striker’s ability on the part of representatives of the “sweet science.”

Silva also gave every MMA fan reason to salivate with an intimation of a possible move to the welterweight division. A move which could set up a possible fight between the esteemed Brazilian striker and Canadian Ace, Georges St. Pierre. >>


I don't know how he could cut to 170 either, but I'm pretty sure St. Pierre walks around close to 200 pounds. If he can make that cut, then I see him running through that division too. I'm guessing its probably alot easier for St. Pierre to cut that much weight because he's still young, Silva is 32 and like you guys have said cutting that much weight might take too much out of him. Seems like a move up to 205 would be the move to make since he probably walks around at around 205, he obviously would be facing fighters 20 pounds heavier then him at fight time, but I think his speed and quickness more then makes up for that 20 pounds.

And I'm with you on Lindland, Dana needs to let go of his stupid grudges and get the best fighters in the UFC no matter what. I could understand if Lindland was asking for Liddell money or something, but come on now.

I for one am excited about the Liddell/Shogun fight. I'd pay $45 for just that fight.

I was having an argument with a friend over the Ortiz/Machida fight, I think its a bad match up for Machida if Ortiz comes in ready to fight, I see Ortiz grinding out a decision with multiple take downs and superior wrestling. What do you guys think? That card is sick with three main events, the Sherk/Penn fight, and Wanderlei/Jardine.

[MM2]

I was seriously concerned after the first round. Hendo had him on his back for most of it, and while he didn't do that much damage, I felt like it was only a matter of time. When it's striker v wrestler, the wrestler usually wins (see Hughes, Matt).

I know Silva is a bbj black belt, but I think a smart wrester with enough bbj experience to avoid submissions always wins from the top.

But Silva's different. You can't give him a second, not one second. He's deadly. My favorite fighter by far.

As much as it kills me to say this, I don't think MMA has jumped the shark, but the Fonz is on his bike, and getting ready to speed across the parking lot at Arnold's. Bumping the ppv price to $45 and then putting more yet weaker cards is going to drive me away. The Sanchez fight should have been a part of the ppv card, but they saved it thinking I was going to pay more to see it online. Fuck you. I paid $45 for the ppv, and then I have to pay more to see the rest of the card online? They're doing it on purpose, putting a TUF fighter online, but I'm not biting.

Then they spend all that time promoting a ppv event from London with Liddell v TBA?! Are you fucking kidding me? That tells me that they don't even care about the matchups. Liddell can't headline a card by himself without an opponent. He's not even a titleholder. That's a joke.

And Joe Rogan is starting to get on my nerves, and I like him. He's even got Mike Goldberg doing the same crap. Guys, I'm watching the same thing that you are. You don't have to tell me about every stinking leg kick. Seriously, now that I've mentioned it, watch for it. They have to announce every single leg kick. They don't bring much to the table at all. I wish they'd settle up with Randy and put him in Joe's chair. He is excellent, and actually knows what's going on in the ring.

And that's the end of my post.

Donk.

I hear people complain about Rogan and Goldberg all the time, but I never really pay attention to the commentary anyways, I'm just trying to pay attention to the fight. I don't really remember anything that is said during the fight, but their pre and post fight commentary isn't all that bad in my opinion.

[MM2]

Oh yeah, nobody has brought up Coleman/Lesnar. Anyone think that this fight will probably end quicker then the Mir fight, but this time it will be Lesnar with his hand raised?

This would be a great fight if Coleman was the Mark Coleman of 10 years ago. He's basically facing a younger, stronger, faster version of what he once was.

[cougarjake13]

Oh yeah, nobody has brought up Coleman/Lesnar. Anyone think that this fight will probably end quicker then the Mir fight, but this time it will be Lesnar with his hand raised?

This would be a great fight if Coleman was the Mark Coleman of 10 years ago. He's basically facing a younger, stronger, faster version of what he once was.

didnyt hear much about this fight


sounds like it could be decent

[PhishHead]

March 02, 2008




<<Anderson Silva is amazing. At 4:52 of the second round he solidified his place atop the middleweight division along with providing fodder for any pound for pound debate, with a decisive win over “Dangerous” Dan Henderson.
Silva, as expected, related in an interview with UFC.com his elation over his victory and doted over his fallen foe. Silva then disclosed two possible courses of action, as he has essentially cleaned out the UFC Middleweight division with exception of a rematch with Yushin Okami.

“Spider” expressed desire to match up with any 185 lb. professional boxer, taking offense to a perceived lack of respect of MMA striker’s ability on the part of representatives of the “sweet science.”

Silva also gave every MMA fan reason to salivate with an intimation of a possible move to the welterweight division. A move which could set up a possible fight between the esteemed Brazilian striker and Canadian Ace, Georges St. Pierre. >>


I don't know how he could cut to 170 either, but I'm pretty sure St. Pierre walks around close to 200 pounds. If he can make that cut, then I see him running through that division too. I'm guessing its probably alot easier for St. Pierre to cut that much weight because he's still young, Silva is 32 and like you guys have said cutting that much weight might take too much out of him. Seems like a move up to 205 would be the move to make since he probably walks around at around 205, he obviously would be facing fighters 20 pounds heavier then him at fight time, but I think his speed and quickness more then makes up for that 20 pounds.

And I'm with you on Lindland, Dana needs to let go of his stupid grudges and get the best fighters in the UFC no matter what. I could understand if Lindland was asking for Liddell money or something, but come on now.

I for one am excited about the Liddell/Shogun fight. I'd pay $45 for just that fight.

I was having an argument with a friend over the Ortiz/Machida fight, I think its a bad match up for Machida if Ortiz comes in ready to fight, I see Ortiz grinding out a decision with multiple take downs and superior wrestling. What do you guys think? That card is sick with three main events, the Sherk/Penn fight, and Wanderlei/Jardine.

Oh yeah, nobody has brought up Coleman/Lesnar. Anyone think that this fight will probably end quicker then the Mir fight, but this time it will be Lesnar with his hand raised?

This would be a great fight if Coleman was the Mark Coleman of 10 years ago. He's basically facing a younger, stronger, faster version of what he once was.


FUCK I had an entire response written out and I X'ed out the box I am going to try to do it again quickly.

GSP walks around 185-190
Dana flat out told Lindland he wont negotiate with him
Silva will lose speed if he puts on weight to be able to compete at 205, and could you see him trying to fight Forrest? (yes its a bad example as Forrest is the biggest of the LHW). He could fight the smaller ones like Wanderli but no one else really, same way Hendo went, Hendo did well against the smaller ones lost to the bigger ones.
Machida destroys Ortiz as ortiz is a shell of his former self, which wasn't that good to begin with.
Coleman will get dominated he hasn't been relevant in a long ass time.

UFC 83 - will be eh except for main event
UFC 84 - amazing card...Penn/Sherk, Jardine/Silva, Machida/Ortiz, Evans/Thiago, Nakamura/Soku
UFC 85 - Liddell/Rua and Werdum/Vera (only 2 announced)
UFC 86 - Page/Griffin
UFC 87 - Coleman/Lesnar (need a bigger main event)

I had more written out but can't remember it now.

[MM2]

FUCK I had an entire response written out and I X'ed out the box I am going to try to do it again quickly.

GSP walks around 185-190
Dana flat out told Lindland he wont negotiate with him
Silva will lose speed if he puts on weight to be able to compete at 205, and could you see him trying to fight Forrest? (yes its a bad example as Forrest is the biggest of the LHW). He could fight the smaller ones like Wanderli but no one else really, same way Hendo went, Hendo did well against the smaller ones lost to the bigger ones.
Machida destroys Ortiz as ortiz is a shell of his former self, which wasn't that good to begin with.
Coleman will get dominated he hasn't been relevant in a long ass time.

UFC 83 - will be eh except for main event
UFC 84 - amazing card...Penn/Sherk, Jardine/Silva, Machida/Ortiz, Evans/Thiago, Nakamura/Soku
UFC 85 - Liddell/Rua and Werdum/Vera (only 2 announced)
UFC 86 - Page/Griffin
UFC 87 - Coleman/Lesnar (need a bigger main event)

I had more written out but can't remember it now.

I won't be surprised if Machida wins, but I think its a very bad match up for him. If Ortiz comes ready, he takes Machida down with ease and controls him on the ground. Machida has decent BJJ but I haven't seen what he can do from his back. I think Ortiz takes this in a decision. Now if Machida can stuff Ortiz' takedowns like Liddell (which I don't see happening) then Machida wins easy. I'm excited to see if Machida is for real and if Jardine is for real. If Jardine knocks out Silva then I definitely think he deserves a title shot, too bad he'll have to wait until the winner or Shogun/Liddell gets their shot. So many LHWs, if Machida and Jardine both win convincingly, who deserves the title shot first?

I don't think Silva would have to put on weight to compete at 205, he just won't have to cut. He comes into the 185 fights close to 200 after putting his weight back on, so like I said earlier he would be giving up 20+ pounds to some of the LHWs like Page, but I think he'll have a great speed and quickness advantage and his superior striking could overwhelm even HWs.

I think Silva will move either up or down, he won't stay at 185 forever. Unless they start moving WWs up or LHWs down, he will make a move.

[MM2]

didnyt hear much about this fight


sounds like it could be decent

I can't see how Coleman stands a chance, he's facing a better version of his younger self. How in the hell can he stand a chance? Coleman is no Randy, so I can't see him pulling this off in a million years.

[MM2]

FUCK I had an entire response written out and I X'ed out the box I am going to try to do it again quickly.

GSP walks around 185-190
Dana flat out told Lindland he wont negotiate with him
Silva will lose speed if he puts on weight to be able to compete at 205, and could you see him trying to fight Forrest? (yes its a bad example as Forrest is the biggest of the LHW). He could fight the smaller ones like Wanderli but no one else really, same way Hendo went, Hendo did well against the smaller ones lost to the bigger ones.
Machida destroys Ortiz as ortiz is a shell of his former self, which wasn't that good to begin with.
Coleman will get dominated he hasn't been relevant in a long ass time.

UFC 83 - will be eh except for main event
UFC 84 - amazing card...Penn/Sherk, Jardine/Silva, Machida/Ortiz, Evans/Thiago, Nakamura/Soku
UFC 85 - Liddell/Rua and Werdum/Vera (only 2 announced)
UFC 86 - Page/Griffin
UFC 87 - Coleman/Lesnar (need a bigger main event)

I had more written out but can't remember it now.


Do you think Forrest stands a chance against Page? I just can't see any way in which Griffin can win this fight. He doesn't really have that one punch knockout power, if he stands there and throws with Page, he's going to sleep. Griffin has improved on the ground, but Page is a great wrestler who pretty much controlled Hendo on the ground. I hope because Griffin is so popular that the line for this fight is close, I'll definitely be laying some cash on this fight if the line is anywhere close to 2-1. Looks like a 10-1 fight to me.

[MM2]

Also of note, I think this is the first time (first I’ve read, at least) that the UFC is selling an online stream of this PPV. They’re already making the same mistake the WWE made shortly after the debut of their online stream of PPVs, charging the same as cable/dish pricing.

Now that the fights have gone up $5 the last two months (from $39.99 to $44.99), wouldn’t it be smart to offer the fringe fan a cheaper alternative? I think WWE did this for a few months back in 2004 or so. Buy the PPV from your cable/satellite provider for $40 or watch a less-than-stellar but sufficient stream of the fight for $20-$25 online.

Except for the atypical occasion (travel or some other rare event that takes you away from your home TV), why would you spend $45 to watch a PPV on your 15”-or-so laptop screen when you can watch it on your average 27 to 64” main home television at the same price?

Just seems like a silly idea to me, but what the hell do I know about business anyway?


I think that the online stream is more geared towards people overseas, like our troops who wouldn't normally have access to the PPV through cable or satellite. I would say just give it to the troops for free, but I'm not Zuffa, so I don't call the shots lol. I can't see the online stream being a big revenue stream, but like you, what do I know about business, haha!

[PhishHead]

Shogun ruptured his ACL again, same knee as the Forrest fight. Liddell will have a new opponent announced soon.

[cougarjake13]

Shogun ruptured his ACL again, same knee as the Forrest fight. Liddell will have a new opponent announced soon.

shit

how'd he do that ??

[Crippler]

That sucks, I was really looking forward to that fight. Anyone want to speculate as to who might be getting/should get the spot? Here's the scenarios Sherdog is listing:

- Rashad Evans
- Winner of Hamill-Boetsch
- Wilson Gouveia
- Winner of Silva-Jardine
- Rameau Sokoudjou
- Winner of Machida-Ortiz
- Other

[PhishHead]

That sucks, I was really looking forward to that fight. Anyone want to speculate as to who might be getting/should get the spot? Here's the scenarios Sherdog is listing:

- Rashad Evans
- Winner of Hamill-Boetsch
- Wilson Gouveia
- Winner of Silva-Jardine
- Rameau Sokoudjou
- Winner of Machida-Ortiz
- Other

I can't picture it being any of those people as it would only be 1/2 months away from their last fight, especially Evans, Wilson, Silva, Jardine, Soko, Machida and Ortiz, they are fighting on the card right before the Liddell card.

It could be Rashad as he is the only one not facing anyone important really and their styles mash. The rest they won't pull out. Soko would be a good fight but they want Soko to win right now because they are paying him alot.

I say fuck it throw Houston Alexander in there

[Snacks]

how come i havent seen this thread the past 3 days? This happens all the time, you see a thread and wonder why you didnt see it sooner.

I watched the fight at my cousins house (crippler). I thought henderson would win. After the first round I felt he was doing well. then the second round came and silva just attacked him. I think Silva is the ufc's pound for pound best right now.

[PhishHead]

how come i havent seen this thread the past 3 days? This happens all the time, you see a thread and wonder why you didnt see it sooner.

I watched the fight at my cousins house (crippler). I thought henderson would win. After the first round I felt he was doing well. then the second round came and silva just attacked him. I think Silva is the ufc's pound for pound best right now.

I think Silva truly got pissed after the first round when Hendo was completely covering his mouth with his fist. It is not illegal but it will piss off fighters. Silva probably just said fuck this asshole. I did think it was weird in the post fight interview when Anderson said that Franklin was the hardest fight he had and he was a true champion, that was weird considering Franklin never did anything to hurt Anderson at all, meanwhile Hendo had him on the ground the whole time in the 1st round.

[MM2]

That sucks, I was really looking forward to that fight. Anyone want to speculate as to who might be getting/should get the spot? Here's the scenarios Sherdog is listing:

- Rashad Evans
- Winner of Hamill-Boetsch
- Wilson Gouveia
- Winner of Silva-Jardine
- Rameau Sokoudjou
- Winner of Machida-Ortiz
- Other

I think Thiago Silva deserves a shot at Liddell, I haven't heard his name since he beat Huston Alexander. I think it will either be Silva or Evans. Soko just signed a fight, and those other guys are fighting too close to the event. Its a shame that Shogun tore up his knee again, I was really looking forward to that fight.

[MM2]

I think Thiago Silva deserves a shot at Liddell, I haven't heard his name since he beat Huston Alexander. I think it will either be Silva or Evans. Soko just signed a fight, and those other guys are fighting too close to the event. Its a shame that Shogun tore up his knee again, I was really looking forward to that fight.

Well I just saw that Thiago and Evans are booked for 84, don't know why I hadn't heard about that fight, guess it got pushed to the back because of the three co-main events. Looks like everyone at LHW is booked. I don't know what they are going to do. Hopefully they announce something soon.

[PhishHead]

Well I just saw that Thiago and Evans are booked for 84, don't know why I hadn't heard about that fight, guess it got pushed to the back because of the three co-main events. Looks like everyone at LHW is booked. I don't know what they are going to do. Hopefully they announce something soon.

Alexander isn't booked and him and Liddell both love punching.

[MM2]

Alexander isn't booked and him and Liddell both love punching.

Alexander is booked for Fight Night in April. But I guess if its a quick KO then he should be ready by June, but I'd want to have 3 months, not 2. Liddell would get 3 months. I guess they could scratch the Irvin fight, but that takes money out of Irvin's pocket, I don't know if they are able to scratch fights that are signed unless both fighters agree to.

[Ritalin]

I think Silva truly got pissed after the first round when Hendo was completely covering his mouth with his fist. It is not illegal but it will piss off fighters. Silva probably just said fuck this asshole. I did think it was weird in the post fight interview when Anderson said that Franklin was the hardest fight he had and he was a true champion, that was weird considering Franklin never did anything to hurt Anderson at all, meanwhile Hendo had him on the ground the whole time in the 1st round.

The fight was in Ohio, that's why.

[Ritalin]

I told you guys that they were promoting Liddell v TBA on saturday.

Houston Alexander? That might be one fight where Chuck willingly fights on the ground, because I think even I could beat Alexander on the ground. We'd have to start there though, because on our feet he'd pop my head like a Rockem Sockem Robot.

[MM2]

I told you guys that they were promoting Liddell v TBA on saturday.

Houston Alexander? That might be one fight where Chuck willingly fights on the ground, because I think even I could beat Alexander on the ground. We'd have to start there though, because on our feet he'd pop my head like a Rockem Sockem Robot.

Yeah, it was listed on UFC.com as TBA, but Shogun had been announced months ago by Liddell and Shogun, and it was listed as the main event on many other sites. This was a fight that alot of people were looking forward to. It sucks ass that he blew up his knee.

[PhishHead]

I didn't see that Houston was booked for a fight night I dont pay attention to those cards I was looking at the major PPV events my mistake.

All other big name LHWs are booked unless they sign someone up right now...mainly Arona or Vitor.

[MM2]

I didn't see that Houston was booked for a fight night I dont pay attention to those cards I was looking at the major PPV events my mistake.

All other big name LHWs are booked unless they sign someone up right now...mainly Arona or Vitor.

I'd like to see Belfort/Liddell, if he's in shape. I think the best way to go is scratch the Evans/Silva fight, and let one of them fight Liddell, you can promote that fairly well since they are both undefeated, I see Silva as the logical choice since he beat Alexander, and Alexander beat Jardine, who beat Liddell. So MMA math says Silva beats Liddell, right?

I just hope they announce something quick.

And don't down play that Fight Night card, its stacked. Flourian/Lauzon, Parisyan/Alves, Hamil/Boestch (Bonnar pulled out), Alexander/Irvin, Nate Diaz/Pellegrino. Those fights are all PPV quality and we get them all for free! Its gonna be a 3 hour Fight Night. I'm pretty excited about that card.

[PhishHead]

I'd like to see Belfort/Liddell, if he's in shape. I think the best way to go is scratch the Evans/Silva fight, and let one of them fight Liddell, you can promote that fairly well since they are both undefeated, I see Silva as the logical choice since he beat Alexander, and Alexander beat Jardine, who beat Liddell. So MMA math says Silva beats Liddell, right?

I just hope they announce something quick.

And don't down play that Fight Night card, its stacked. Flourian/Lauzon, Parisyan/Alves, Hamil/Boestch (Bonnar pulled out), Alexander/Irvin, Nate Diaz/Pellegrino. Those fights are all PPV quality and we get them all for free! Its gonna be a 3 hour Fight Night. I'm pretty excited about that card.

I normally watch every fight night and love them but when I look at upcoming fights I don't pay as much attention to the Fight Nights. Also the only reason I can see them pulling out a fighter from the FN instead of a PPV is because the audience is not as big and they are not promoted as much. So to me they can pull out Alexander alot easier than Evans.

I think either way the fight will be good just wish it was Shogun instead. Now we just have to hope that Shogun can get the knee repaired again, I mean 2nd time within what 6 months blowing up the same knee that is horrible. It makes you wonder about the roids that were used in Pride and if it effected him that much.

[MM2]

I normally watch every fight night and love them but when I look at upcoming fights I don't pay as much attention to the Fight Nights. Also the only reason I can see them pulling out a fighter from the FN instead of a PPV is because the audience is not as big and they are not promoted as much. So to me they can pull out Alexander alot easier than Evans.

I think either way the fight will be good just wish it was Shogun instead. Now we just have to hope that Shogun can get the knee repaired again, I mean 2nd time within what 6 months blowing up the same knee that is horrible. It makes you wonder about the roids that were used in Pride and if it effected him that much.

Yeah, who knows if its a roids thing, but I don't think roids affects things like your knees, I remember hearing that most guys who were on roids and go off will pull or tear hamstrings and things like that. I think ripping up your knee is just bad luck, but who knows. Sad that he's having so many problems with the same knee, that doesn't bode well for the rest of his career.

You make a good point about pulling a FN fighter instead of a PPV fighter. I think I'd rather see a Silva/Liddell fight because I think that poses Chuck more of a challenge, but a Alexander/Liddell fight will be pretty good too. All I know is that it better be a top 10 guy, not just some retread.

[King Imp]

In WWE fashion, I say they are gonna bring out someone who looks like Randy Couture for Chuck to destroy.

[MM2]

Rashad Evans (11-0-1 MMA, 6-0-1 UFC) will fill in for an injured Mauricio "Shogun" Rua and to take on Chuck Liddell (21-5 MMA, 16-4 UFC) in the main event of UFC 85.

The news was first reported by MMAWeekly.com. The UFC has yet to announce the bout, and MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) has left a message with Evans' camp to confirm the report.

UFC 85 takes place June 7 at the 02 Arena in London, England.

On Tuesday the UFC announced the Rua had ruptured the ACL in his left knee, which is the same injury that forced a surgery after a UFC 76 loss to Forrest Griffin. Rua returned to training soon after the September surgery but reaggravated the injury during a recent workout.

Evans, who was expected to fight Thiago Silva at May's UFC 84 event, will step up in his place for his second straight main-event fight. "The Ultimate Fighter 2" winner's only blemish on an otherwise perfect record is a draw to Tito Ortiz at UFC 73. However, Evans bounced back for a split-decision victory over co-headliner Michael Bisping at UFC 78 in November.

Liddell, meanwhile, is looking to return to the title picture. The former champ lost his belt to Quintin Jackson at UFC 71 and then suffered a loss to Keith Jardine via split decision in September. They were the first back-to-back losses of Liddell's career. He returned for a vital victory over Wanderlei Silva at UFC 79 in December.


I guess Rashad has more drawing power then Silva. I think Silva would have been more of a challenge. I don't see Rashad being able to take Chuck down, so Chuck should be able to work him in the stand up and either KO him or win a decision.

[PhishHead]

yea Evans has never impressed me when he has fought. I like Thiago alot more and see him as more of a challenge, but definitely not a bigger draw for the UFC.

[Ritalin]

I don't think Rashaad can beat Chuck either, but it's not a total walkover. He's got fast accurate hands - granted, I don't think they're particularly heavy - and he always seems to hang around in his fights. He's frustrating because he always looks on the verge of dominating but never does. I think he's got a 10 cent head, but if he gets a good game plan and sticks to it, he'll do alright, assuming he doesn't get caught.

And, let's face it, Chuck has probably lost a beat of speed. Not that he isn't very dangerous, and I'm definitely not saying that he's washed up, but a very fast athletic guy like Rashaad could neutralize him somewhat.

Either way, it's not a worthy headline fight.

[MM2]

I don't think Rashaad can beat Chuck either, but it's not a total walkover. He's got fast accurate hands - granted, I don't think they're particularly heavy - and he always seems to hang around in his fights. He's frustrating because he always looks on the verge of dominating but never does. I think he's got a 10 cent head, but if he gets a good game plan and sticks to it, he'll do alright, assuming he doesn't get caught.

And, let's face it, Chuck has probably lost a beat of speed. Not that he isn't very dangerous, and I'm definitely not saying that he's washed up, but a very fast athletic guy like Rashaad could neutralize him somewhat.

Either way, it's not a worthy headline fight.

I actually think Evans is a good fighter, but styles make fights and he doesn't have the game to beat Chuck. Evans has decent hands but that's not his game, his game is to take you down and grind you out. Chuck probably has the best take down defense in the world, and his long monkey arms will negate Evans quick hands. I just don't see Evans being able to take him down and there is no way that Evans can out strike Chuck even if Rashad does have fast accurate hands, he won't get in close enough because of Chuck's reach. This is a perfect match up for Chuck, which is probably why its being signed. I don't see Rashad giving Chuck any problems. Rashad is no push over, but this is not a good matchup for him at all.

Either Rashad comes out aggressive and Chuck knocks him out, or Rashad is passive and Chuck wins a decision. I can't see it going any other way.

[Crippler]

Either way, it's not a worthy headline fight.

They'll definitely do well at the gate, but they're going to need a strong undercard to do good PPV numbers with this as the Main Event. Now, if the undercard looks like the last PPV, it'll do fine.

[PhishHead]

They'll definitely do well at the gate, but they're going to need a strong undercard to do good PPV numbers with this as the Main Event. Now, if the undercard looks like the last PPV, it'll do fine.

they need to stop having televised/non-televised bouts. Televise all of them, because last week's PPV the non-televised bouts were freaking awesome and better then some of the televised ones.

[MM2]

they need to stop having televised/non-televised bouts. Televise all of them, because last week's PPV the non-televised bouts were freaking awesome and better then some of the televised ones.

What they need to do is televise the first couple fights of a PPV on Spike for free, like they used to do with wrestling. I think that might actually help with PPV numbers.

The problem with the last PPV was that there were alot of big names on the untelevised part, that doesn't normally happen. Look at the undercard for UFC 83, not really impressive.

[Crippler]

they need to stop having televised/non-televised bouts. Televise all of them, because last week's PPV the non-televised bouts were freaking awesome and better then some of the televised ones.

Agreed, how the hell do you put a card together with a:

- former Heavyweight Champ
- TUF winner
- the guy who broke the former's unbeaten streak & is a big up & comer in his weightclass

...and all those were scheduled to not make the broadcast. That's just silliness. Then tell us all night that those fights will be available later on the website, then have the balls to try to collect $2 per fight...are you kidding...when the PPV just went up $5 the previous month? UFC us fuckin' up. I hope this doesn't become a trend.

[Ritalin]

they need to stop having televised/non-televised bouts. Televise all of them, because last week's PPV the non-televised bouts were freaking awesome and better then some of the televised ones.

Hear! Hear!

[MM2]

Agreed, how the hell do you put a card together with a:

- former Heavyweight Champ
- TUF winner
- the guy who broke the former's unbeaten streak & is a big up & comer in his weightclass

...and all those were scheduled to not make the broadcast. That's just silliness. Then tell us all night that those fights will be available later on the website, then have the balls to try to collect $2 per fight...are you kidding...when the PPV just went up $5 the previous month? UFC us fuckin' up. I hope this doesn't become a trend.

I agree that there were big fights I would like to have seen on the undercard, but I can't complain, that was a very good PPV. Normally you won't have all those big names on the undercard, so while I'd love to have been able to see all those fights live, I can't complain, I think I got my moneys worth.

I mean just look at the next PPVs untelevised card, its not very impressive. The main cards not all that impressive either, although Franklin puts on a good show, when not facing Silva that is lol.

[PhishHead]

I have just lost a ton of respect for Paul Filho.

He barely beat Chael Sonnen last time and now they had a rematch scheduled on March 26th and Filho has pulled out according to tatame.com because he lost the motivation to train. Dude that is ridiculous you are a fighter who basically was getting his a$$ handed to him by Chael last time and there is still controversy over the "verbal" tap out and you lost the motivation to train? That is freaking ridiculous. I hope WEC fines him.

Bout rescheduled for June apparently.

[PhishHead]

I agree that there were big fights I would like to have seen on the undercard, but I can't complain, that was a very good PPV. Normally you won't have all those big names on the undercard, so while I'd love to have been able to see all those fights live, I can't complain, I think I got my moneys worth.

I mean just look at the next PPVs untelevised card, its not very impressive. The main cards not all that impressive either, although Franklin puts on a good show, when not facing Silva that is lol.

Franklin's best time on TV has been against Anderson!! We saw actually nose breaking happening in slo-motion I mean that was awesome. we also saw someone losing their soul at the exact moment when it happens.

Also the Leben fight should not have been PPV (yes it was good), but Arvloski should have been PPV, but of course Dana is Dana is a little girl sometimes.

[Ritalin]

Agreed, how the hell do you put a card together with a:

- former Heavyweight Champ
- TUF winner
- the guy who broke the former's unbeaten streak & is a big up & comer in his weightclass

...and all those were scheduled to not make the broadcast. That's just silliness. Then tell us all night that those fights will be available later on the website, then have the balls to try to collect $2 per fight...are you kidding...when the PPV just went up $5 the previous month? UFC us fuckin' up. I hope this doesn't become a trend.

As a smart man once said:

As much as it kills me to say this, I don't think MMA has jumped the shark, but the Fonz is on his bike, and getting ready to speed across the parking lot at Arnold's. Bumping the ppv price to $45 and then putting more yet weaker cards is going to drive me away. The Sanchez fight should have been a part of the ppv card, but they saved it thinking I was going to pay more to see it online. Fuck you. I paid $45 for the ppv, and then I have to pay more to see the rest of the card online? They're doing it on purpose, putting a TUF fighter online, but I'm not biting.

[PhishHead]

As a smart man once said:

As much as it kills me to say this, I don't think MMA has jumped the shark, but the Fonz is on his bike, and getting ready to speed across the parking lot at Arnold's. Bumping the ppv price to $45 and then putting more yet weaker cards is going to drive me away. The Sanchez fight should have been a part of the ppv card, but they saved it thinking I was going to pay more to see it online. Fuck you. I paid $45 for the ppv, and then I have to pay more to see the rest of the card online? They're doing it on purpose, putting a TUF fighter online, but I'm not biting.

they need to accept also the fact that bittorrent is way to prevalent and that is how alot of people get the fight. I had it within 30 minutes of the fight being over.

[MM2]

I have just lost a ton of respect for Paul Filho.

He barely beat Chael Sonnen last time and now they had a rematch scheduled on March 26th and Filho has pulled out according to tatame.com because he lost the motivation to train. Dude that is ridiculous you are a fighter who basically was getting his a$$ handed to him by Chael last time and there is still controversy over the "verbal" tap out and you lost the motivation to train? That is freaking ridiculous. I hope WEC fines him.

Bout rescheduled for June apparently.

I agree, how can you reschedule a fight for lack of motivation? What more motivation do you need, you are champ and are going to fight someone who was taking it to you. You had the chance to prove that you are on Anderson Silva's level and you got embarrassed. Pretty pathetic, but at least that June 1 card will be stacked with this fight and the Pulver/Faber fight. I'm looking forward to that one.

[MM2]

Franklin's best time on TV has been against Anderson!! We saw actually nose breaking happening in slo-motion I mean that was awesome. we also saw someone losing their soul at the exact moment when it happens.

Also the Leben fight should not have been PPV (yes it was good), but Arvloski should have been PPV, but of course Dana is Dana is a little girl sometimes.

Well you know why the Arlovski fight wasn't on TV, I don't understand why the Sanchez and Kos (live) fights weren't. They should have had those fights moved to a different PPV, like this one coming up.

I still think that the problem was they scheduled too many names for one card, I doubt you'll see this very often. I'm sure the people that went to the fight were happy with the stacked card.

It was almost sad watching Franklin get destroyed. Especially the second fight when you saw Silva just toying with him with his hands dropped and Franklin couldn't even touch him. So sad.

[King Imp]

I have just lost a ton of respect for Paul Filho.

He barely beat Chael Sonnen last time and now they had a rematch scheduled on March 26th and Filho has pulled out according to tatame.com because he lost the motivation to train. Dude that is ridiculous you are a fighter who basically was getting his a$$ handed to him by Chael last time and there is still controversy over the "verbal" tap out and you lost the motivation to train? That is freaking ridiculous. I hope WEC fines him.

Bout rescheduled for June apparently.


You gotta be kidding! Aside from wanting to see Brain Stann kick the shit out of Doug Marshall on that card, I was really looking forward to this matchup. Filho should be stripped of the title for that lame excuse. It's one thing to pull out because of injury, but you don't just say you don't feel like fighting so lets postpone it.

[PhishHead]

Well you know why the Arlovski fight wasn't on TV, I don't understand why the Sanchez and Kos (live) fights weren't. They should have had those fights moved to a different PPV, like this one coming up.

I still think that the problem was they scheduled too many names for one card, I doubt you'll see this very often. I'm sure the people that went to the fight were happy with the stacked card.

It was almost sad watching Franklin get destroyed. Especially the second fight when you saw Silva just toying with him with his hands dropped and Franklin couldn't even touch him. So sad.

Sad or awesomely awesome?

I say awesomely awesome.

[PhishHead]

Filho/Sonnen back on for March 26th I bet filho caught alot of shit for pulling out.

[MM2]

Sad or awesomely awesome?

I say awesomely awesome.

Haha, come on man, wouldn't you rather see a hard fought fight, then total domination? I like a great KO like anyone else, but that was way beyond anything. It was like a beating of a child lol.

[MM2]

Filho/Sonnen back on for March 26th I bet filho caught alot of shit for pulling out.

I saw that, I wonder what really went on.

[PhishHead]

Haha, come on man, wouldn't you rather see a hard fought fight, then total domination? I like a great KO like anyone else, but that was way beyond anything. It was like a beating of a child lol.

not when it concerns Rich Franklin i hate that little bitch. He is a little overhyped dana white machine.

He hasn't fought that much real competition. Okami would have beat him if he fought round 1 and 2 like 3. The best guys he has faced are Tanner, Loiseau, Okami and Spider. Tanner he beat, Loiseau could have won and should have pushed the pace more like he did in the latter rounds, okami we already know and spider killed him. Everyone else he has faced in the UFC has been a can.

[MM2]

Fedor is free again, does Dana White swallow his pride and make Randy/Fedor happen? Most likely not, but one can dream :thumbup:

Why not just give Fedor a three fight contract 1 year contract for say 2 mil, put on Fedor/Randy, no title on the line, then have the winner face Big Nog. If Fedor wins both fights, he still has one fight left on his contract, and if Dana wants to be a dick then, go ahead because we got what we wanted! This way Fedor can still fight in his Samba matches or whatever the hell that is because the contract is only for 1 year. If Fedor leaves as Champ, oh well, no biggie, Randy's doing it now.

Dana better realize that he needs to make this happen now, because Mark Cuban is going to make it happen early '09.

[MM2]

not when it concerns Rich Franklin i hate that little bitch. He is a little overhyped dana white machine.

He hasn't fought that much real competition. Okami would have beat him if he fought round 1 and 2 like 3. The best guys he has faced are Tanner, Loiseau, Okami and Spider. Tanner he beat, Loiseau could have won and should have pushed the pace more like he did in the latter rounds, okami we already know and spider killed him. Everyone else he has faced in the UFC has been a can.

I think he dominated that Loiseau fight, and that's with a broken hand and I think he hurt his knee in that fight too didn't he? But I do agree with you, Franklin rose to prominance in a weak division. He probably does lose that fight to Okami if its a 5 rounder, but you have to give it to him, he did what he had to to win. Anderson Silva is so far and beyond anyone else, it makes you forget how good some of these fighters actually are. Franklin is a good fighter who can hang with just about any MW besides the Spider of course. I'd take Franklin over Filho.

Honestly I would like to see a Franklin/Leben fight, I think that would tell us alot about both fighters.

[PhishHead]

I think he dominated that Loiseau fight, and that's with a broken hand and I think he hurt his knee in that fight too didn't he? But I do agree with you, Franklin rose to prominance in a weak division. He probably does lose that fight to Okami if its a 5 rounder, but you have to give it to him, he did what he had to to win. Anderson Silva is so far and beyond anyone else, it makes you forget how good some of these fighters actually are. Franklin is a good fighter who can hang with just about any MW besides the Spider of course. I'd take Franklin over Filho.

Honestly I would like to see a Franklin/Leben fight, I think that would tell us alot about both fighters.

I want to see
Franklin/Lutter (which is happening)
Franklin/Nate (nate would win, he had anderson beat until that sweep and Franklins bjj is nowhere near andersons)
Franklin/Okami (I think okami would come out stronger)

Leben is another fighter I think who is hyped up way too much

With Filho it depends which one shows up.

[Chigworthy]

In this thread, how do I determine to call a fighter by his first or last name? I'm confused.

[PhishHead]

oh and now that Almeida is back as well I hope he gets a chance at Spider or Franklin i think both would be great matchups. Almeida's BJJ is way beyond Andersons.

[PhishHead]

In this thread, how do I determine to call a fighter by his first or last name? I'm confused.

i switch back and forth it doesnt matter

[Chigworthy]

Can I use the last half of the first name and the first half of the last name? Lemme try it:

oh and now that Almeida is back as well I hope he gets a chance at Spider or Franklin i think both would be great matchups. Almeida's BJJ is way beyond Andersons.

But so was vis Lut's.

[PhishHead]

Can I use the last half of the first name and the first half of the last name? Lemme try it:



But so was vis Lut's.

and Lutter was submitted by Almeida. I am not saying Almeida would win because his standup is not great but it would be interesting.

[MM2]

I want to see
Franklin/Lutter (which is happening)
Franklin/Nate (nate would win, he had anderson beat until that sweep and Franklins bjj is nowhere near andersons)
Franklin/Okami (I think okami would come out stronger)

Leben is another fighter I think who is hyped up way too much

With Filho it depends which one shows up.

I think Nate is the best MW outside of Silva. I think he beats Franklin. Leben is definitely over hyped, but he puts on a good show. I think if Franklin and Leben fought we'd find out if Leben can beat a contender, and we'd find out if Franklin's chin can take a beating.

No one cares about the Fedor news?

[PhishHead]

I care about the Fedor news but I know that Dana wont sign him (i wish just a one fight deal no belt needed for it, neither fighter cares about the belt). But even if Dana doesnt who knows when Randy can fight for Cuban because of the stupid contract dispute which could go on forever.

[PhishHead]

I was just thinking something and I know this will never ever ever happen because this guy will not negotiate with Dana, but would anyone like to see Frank Shamrock against Anderson Silva?

I think it would be a really good matchup if the real frank showed up.

[MM2]

I was just thinking something and I know this will never ever ever happen because this guy will not negotiate with Dana, but would anyone like to see Frank Shamrock against Anderson Silva?

I think it would be a really good matchup if the real frank showed up.

I'll answer this question after I see what Shammy can do against Cung Le.

[PhishHead]

I'll answer this question after I see what Shammy can do against Cung Le.

I think it will be hard to determine just because no one ever knows which Frank would show up, when he doesnt think highly of an opponent he shows up out of shape and horrible. I think anderson could be the guy that finally lets frank show his real abilities.

[MM2]

I think it will be hard to determine just because no one ever knows which Frank would show up, when he doesnt think highly of an appointment he shows up out of shape and horrible. I think anderson could be the guy that finally lets frank show his real abilities.

Dentist or doctors? Haha, just kidding.

I guess you could say that about Frank, maybe if he could be the same guy who beat Tito in '99 then he could pose a threat, but that was SO long ago.

[PhishHead]

Dentist or doctors? Haha, just kidding.

I guess you could say that about Frank, maybe if he could be the same guy who beat Tito in '99 then he could pose a threat, but that was SO long ago.

yea it was but the who the hell knows. The another thing is you could say he doesnt have as much wear and tear on his body as someone else his age since he hardly fights. So who knows.

The two people I really want to see fight Anderson never will, one being Filho the other being Lyoto (who I think can cut the weight to go there as he is a pretty small LHW). But of course both are on Anderson's training team.

Why cant the UFC just bring Lindland and Kang over at least they have 2 fights for Anderson right there instead of throwing him opponents unworthy.

[MM2]

yea it was but the who the hell knows. The another thing is you could say he doesnt have as much wear and tear on his body as someone else his age since he hardly fights. So who knows.

The two people I really want to see fight Anderson never will, one being Filho the other being Lyoto (who I think can cut the weight to go there as he is a pretty small LHW). But of course both are on Anderson's training team.

Why cant the UFC just bring Lindland and Kang over at least they have 2 fights for Anderson right there instead of throwing him opponents unworthy.

There has to be something more to the Lindland situation. I mean all you hear is because Lindland wore a logo that was banned by UFC to the weighin that Dana won't negociate? That doesn't make any sense at all. I think that's the toughest challenge out there today for Sliva, in Dana's position there shouldn't be any personal grudges, it should be all about business. I mean the fact that Lindland pretty much came crawling to the UFC saying he wanted in, and to not even negociate is just stupid.

[PhishHead]

There has to be something more to the Lindland situation. I mean all you hear is because Lindland wore a logo that was banned by UFC to the weighin that Dana won't negociate? That doesn't make any sense at all. I think that's the toughest challenge out there today for Sliva, in Dana's position there shouldn't be any personal grudges, it should be all about business. I mean the fact that Lindland pretty much came crawling to the UFC saying he wanted in, and to not even negociate is just stupid.

Oh yea there is alot more then that, lindland has eluded to that. One of the reasons that I remember is that Lindland was a boring fighter and didnt have the personality that dana wanted. And now Dana is just holding a personal grudge.

[thegomez]

"Randy Couture was on Bubba the Love Sponge on Sirius radio yesterday with wife Kim. He said he is in the process of setting up a submission wrestling fight with Kurt Angle."

Boy I can't wait to see this. :thumbdown:

[Chigworthy]

Didn't Couture just have some spat with Zuffa over logos? Zuffa should relax a little, Lindland would be a great asset. At least they let him corner people, they wouldn't even let Nick Diaz corner his brother recently.


And Cung Le is fighting Frank Shamrock? That will be interesting (hopefully). I saw Cung Le cornering some of his girls at a local event a few years ago, and he is small. But he also kicks ass.

[Snacks]

the rankings are out. Silva pound for pound #1

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dd-mmarankings030608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Crippler]

Awww, isn't Chuck cute when he schills for Dana?! His dream match-up would be with Fedor because "I think he's overrated...his style matches up for me great."

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/07/chuck-liddell-id-like-to-fight-fedor/

Forget the 30 pound weight difference, forget that Fedor's 7 years younger...from what I've seen of Fedor, when he decides to stand & throw he throws savage punches. And when he decides to take a guy down, his Sambo & Judo skills mean you are going to the ground. At which point I wouldn't give Lidell 60 seconds before he tapped or got an arm ripped off.

I love Chuck, but he just sounds silly when he says shit like this.

[Crippler]

the rankings are out. Silva pound for pound #1

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dd-mmarankings030608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Silva definitely deserves #1 overall, but I found it interesting that even after losing to Serra, GSP is the only other guy to get first place votes. Granted this is only the opinion of 15 writers, but it seems like GSP is still getting a lot of mileage off the ease with which he beat Matt Hughes. Which is OK by me because I love watching St. Pierre fight & love that he's getting over at the sake of Hughes because I think Hughes is a dick. An extremely talented dick, but a dick nonetheless.

[Crippler]

Golden Boy/Affliction To Form New MMA Company (http://www.mmascoops.com/news.php?page=/206236163)

...and it looks like their first big hire is Matt Lindland (http://www.ufcdaily.com/2008/02/27/lindland-signs-with-new-promotion/)

Also of note, at least one blogger thinks that this upstart organization might be where Fedor (http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/03/09/fact-fiction-and-fedor/) winds up, assuming the rumored split from M-1 comes to fruition.

One last thought...Golden Boy is Oscar's baby. When he fought Floyd Mayweather, they both made a shitload of money for themselves & Golden Boy. That night & leading up to that fight there were comments made & theoretical discussions taking place about how a world class boxer like Mayweather might fair in the cage against an MMA fighter.

Floyd has recently shown that he is willing to venture beyond boxing, at least for the reported $20 million he is said to be getting paid for his ridiculous appearance at WrestleMania. Anyone think there might be a chance his ties to Oscar & possible boredom with the fact that no one can really touch him in the boxing ring lead to him giving MMA a chance?

I would say no for the simple fact that MMA doesn't pay fighters the astronomical wages a good boxing PPV can offer, but it is an interesting thought.

[King Imp]

That night & leading up to that fight there were comments made & theoretical discussions taking place about how a world class boxer like Mayweather might fair in the cage against an MMA fighter.

Guaranteed they'd put Floyd in with some scrub and pay the MMA guy to lose, just so they could "prove their point."

I wouldn't watch that shit for free if it went down.

[MM2]

Awww, isn't Chuck cute when he schills for Dana?! His dream match-up would be with Fedor because "I think he's overrated...his style matches up for me great."

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/07/chuck-liddell-id-like-to-fight-fedor/

Forget the 30 pound weight difference, forget that Fedor's 7 years younger...from what I've seen of Fedor, when he decides to stand & throw he throws savage punches. And when he decides to take a guy down, his Sambo & Judo skills mean you are going to the ground. At which point I wouldn't give Lidell 60 seconds before he tapped or got an arm ripped off.

I love Chuck, but he just sounds silly when he says shit like this.

Well if Dana can get Fedor signed the fight might happen because looks like Chuck might move up to HW.....

Chuck Liddell Willing to Fight for Heavyweight Title
First things first: Chuck Liddell wants to remain at 205 lbs. so he can reclaim his light heavyweight title. However, the former champ says he's willing to move up to the heavyweight division to fight interim champ Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira if the UFC makes the request.

Liddell talked about the possible move while a recent guest on Fight Network Radio.

"That's a possibility if they want to do it," Liddell told host Mauro Ranallo when asked about the fight with Nogueira. "If they want to set it up. I'm willing to do it."

Nogueira, the former PRIDE heavyweight champion, made his UFC debut in 2007. After a victory over Heath Herring, he took on Tim Sylvia at UFC 81 and won the organization's interim heavyweight title with a third-round submission.

"Honestly I would like to get my title back at light heavyweight and then talk about moving up," he said. "But if that came up, (that) too is a possibility."

As it stands, there may be no better time than now to move up since the UFC's heavyweight division is in a bit of disarray. A year ago, the division never looked so stacked. However, Couture recently resigned, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic suffered back-to-back losses and left the UFC, former champ Tim Sylvia lost to Nogueira in February, one-time contender Gabriel Gonzaga has lost two fights in a row, fringe contender Cheick Kongo was recently stopped by Heath Herring, and former title-holder Andrei Arlovski may be on his way out of the organization now that he's a free agent.

[PhishHead]

Chuck definitely could put up a good fight with the smaller HW's as Nog is one of them. Not sure how he would fare against say Tim or Andrei. I would like to see Chuck vs Nog.

Also there is no way Chuck deserves another shot at Rampage until either Rampage loses or Chuck is able to beat everyone else in the top 10 (machida, griffin, jardine, rua, soko etc). Rampage beat him easily twice and chuck has done nothing to warrant a rematch besides beating Silva who is a small LHW and has always been recognized as a small LHW and in the UFC cannot use his legendary knees on the ground and soccer kicks.

I would love to see Vera drop down to LHW as he is too small for HW in my opinion, sometimes it looks like he could even drop down to 185, and they really need a division in between 185 and 205 too much of a weight difference.

[MM2]

Chuck definitely could put up a good fight with the smaller HW's as Nog is one of them. Not sure how he would fare against say Tim or Andrei. I would like to see Chuck vs Nog.

Also there is no way Chuck deserves another shot at Rampage until either Rampage loses or Chuck is able to beat everyone else in the top 10 (machida, griffin, jardine, rua, soko etc). Rampage beat him easily twice and chuck has done nothing to warrant a rematch besides beating Silva who is a small LHW and has always been recognized as a small LHW and in the UFC cannot use his legendary knees on the ground and soccer kicks.

I would love to see Vera drop down to LHW as he is too small for HW in my opinion, sometimes it looks like he could even drop down to 185, and they really need a division in between 185 and 205 too much of a weight difference.

Yeah, you know when Chuck beats Evans he gets a title shot. That's why is sucks so much ass that Shogun went down again. At least you could argue that Chuck deserves the shot if he beat Shogun convincingly, but a win versus Evans proves little since its pretty much a perfect matchup for him.

I'm with you on Vera, I was happy when he lost to Sylvia because he said if he lost he'd move down, but he didn't. I think if Werdum beats him he'll move down.

[PhishHead]

Yeah, you know when Chuck beats Evans he gets a title shot. That's why is sucks so much ass that Shogun went down again. At least you could argue that Chuck deserves the shot if he beat Shogun convincingly, but a win versus Evans proves little since its pretty much a perfect matchup for him.

I'm with you on Vera, I was happy when he lost to Sylvia because he said if he lost he'd move down, but he didn't. I think if Werdum beats him he'll move down.

Chuck deserves no title shot, what so everyone can see Rampage ruin him again?? If Jardine beats Silva, Jardine deserves a title shot before Liddell without a doubt. I would rather watch Silva against Rampage since Silva owned him in Pride.

I actually think Vera beats Werdum and I think Vera would have beaten Sylvia if he didn't break his hand.

They really need to re-sign Arvolski, sign Barnett, sign Fedor beef up the HW division. I wonder how much Dana is paying Coleman for that match against Lesnar I cant wait to see the base salary that comes out after the event.

[MM2]

Chuck deserves no title shot, what so everyone can see Rampage ruin him again?? If Jardine beats Silva, Jardine deserves a title shot before Liddell without a doubt. I would rather watch Silva against Rampage since Silva owned him in Pride.

I actually think Vera beats Werdum and I think Vera would have beaten Sylvia if he didn't break his hand.

They really need to re-sign Arvolski, sign Barnett, sign Fedor beef up the HW division. I wonder how much Dana is paying Coleman for that match against Lesnar I cant wait to see the base salary that comes out after the event.

I think Vera still loses even if he doesn't break the hand. Vera had the broken hand in that third round in which he had a couple of spurts of activity, but Sylvia was just too big and had too much reach for Vera to get inside.

I do think Vera could dominate at LHW though.

And I agree, Chuck doesn't deserve a title shot for a win versus Silva and Evans. I do think you could make the argument that he does deserve the shot if had beaten Shogun. I'm really excited about the Silva/Jardine fight, if Jardine wins that fight convincingly then he deserves a title shot, but he won't get it, at least not right away.

[PhishHead]

The Filho/Sonnen match off once again. Filho in a treatment center for depression and chemical dependence.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=11802

[MM2]

The Filho/Sonnen match off once again. Filho in a treatment center for depression and chemical dependence.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=11802

Guess that was his only way out. Its probably better if he's really having problems.

[MM2]

I read that the UFC is negociating with Fedor for a 1 time only fight. I think it makes a ton of sense because obviously it will be Fedor/Randy, and that would mostly likely be Randy's last fight anyways, win or lose. Then Fedor can go sign with whoever and fight in his Sambo matches or whatever.

Makes sense for everyone, MAKE IT HAPPEN DANA!!!!

[King Imp]

The Filho/Sonnen match off once again. Filho in a treatment center for depression and chemical dependence.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=11802


They should have an interim title fight between Sonnen and someone else since there is no telling when Filho will be back, if ever.

I don't know many of the fighters in the WEC, but from this list of MWs I would throw in Joe "Diesel" Riggs.

WEC Middleweights (http://www.wec.tv/index.cfm?fa=fighter.AllFighters&did=3&LName=)

[PhishHead]

They should have an interim title fight between Sonnen and someone else since there is no telling when Filho will be back, if ever.

I don't know many of the fighters in the WEC, but from this list of MWs I would throw in Joe "Diesel" Riggs.

WEC Middleweights (http://www.wec.tv/index.cfm?fa=fighter.AllFighters&did=3&LName=)

They said Filho will be back to fight in June or July cant remember now.

[MM2]

They said Filho will be back to fight in June or July cant remember now.

Yeah you can't do an interim title for this type of thing, Filho should be back in the summer. Sucks for Sonnen though, he's probably in the best shape of his life for this fight and now he has to take a break and start all over not really knowing if the fight will actually happen.

[PhishHead]

Yeah you can't do an interim title for this type of thing, Filho should be back in the summer. Sucks for Sonnen though, he's probably in the best shape of his life for this fight and now he has to take a break and start all over not really knowing if the fight will actually happen.

yea definitely sucks for him. and he can't even get a fight in the meantime because the dates are way to close and you wouldnt want to risk anything.

[MM2]

Not that it was very likely to happen anyway, but now there is zero hope as Randy has said he won't fight Fedor in the UFC. He's still confident that a fight will happen in the fall though. So most likely we'll get to see the Fedor/Randy matchup, it just won't be the UFC. I wonder if the UFC actually did sign Fedor now, what type of backlash Randy would get for not fighting Fedor because its in the UFC.

[DolaMight]

Not that it was very likely to happen anyway, but now there is zero hope as Randy has said he won't fight Fedor in the UFC. He's still confident that a fight will happen in the fall though. So most likely we'll get to see the Fedor/Randy matchup, it just won't be the UFC. I wonder if the UFC actually did sign Fedor now, what type of backlash Randy would get for not fighting Fedor because its in the UFC.

Not that Couture had much of a chance even if they could fight in the UFC, if they end up fighting in a ring for another promotion I doubt he would survive a 3 minute round. I love couture but without a cage to pin opponents against he's got nothing more than a strikers chance.

[King Imp]

Holy fuck, what a punch!

I'll just leave it at that for those who didn't see the WEC event yet.

[MM2]

Holy fuck, what a punch!

I'll just leave it at that for those who didn't see the WEC event yet.

I only saw the first two fights, I'll just wait for a replay since I already know who won. But let me ask you this, it sounds like Chael Sonnen is getting alittle big for his britches. He said his plan was to beat up Paulo Filho and call out Anderson Silva. How impressive was his victory? I mean he beat a late replacement, so it probably should have been impressive. He was winning the Filho fight, but got caught in a terrible position with that arm bar, does he really think he stands a chance against Anderson Silva? Did he show anything in that fight Wednesday night that says he stands a chance with Anderson Silva?

[PhishHead]

I only saw the first two fights, I'll just wait for a replay since I already know who won. But let me ask you this, it sounds like Chael Sonnen is getting alittle big for his britches. He said his plan was to beat up Paulo Filho and call out Anderson Silva. How impressive was his victory? I mean he beat a late replacement, so it probably should have been impressive. He was winning the Filho fight, but got caught in a terrible position with that arm bar, does he really think he stands a chance against Anderson Silva? Did he show anything in that fight Wednesday night that says he stands a chance with Anderson Silva?

his win on wednesday was his typical type of win, take the guy down, pound some punches, avoid subs and win a decision. I mean he dominated the guy but the guy had what like 3 weeks to prepare?? His wrestling is not as good as Hendo's and look what Silva did to him. I think it was mostly just his adrenaline running when he called out Silva.

[MM2]

his win on wednesday was his typical type of win, take the guy down, pound some punches, avoid subs and win a decision. I mean he dominated the guy but the guy had what like 3 weeks to prepare?? His wrestling is not as good as Hendo's and look what Silva did to him. I think it was mostly just his adrenaline running when he called out Silva.

From the article I read the call out was planned all along, he wrote Joe Silva the UFC's match maker an email and said he was going to beat down Filho and then call out Silva. Joe Silva told him that he was wasting his time and that UFC and WEC were not going to co-promote. Sonnen went on to say that everyone is ducking Silva, and its inevitable that he'll face him because he's the only one who wants to fight him with the skills to beat him.....I have to laugh at that, he's saying after LOSING to Filho and beating a late replacement. He's saying he's the man to beat Silva, something Franklin couldn't do, Hendo couldn't do, so funny.

I was impressed with his game in the Filho fight, but come on now, I'm losing respect for him for thinking he's the man after ONE win in a row haha. The funny thing is that he planned this even before he had that ONE win, he had ZERO wins in a row and wanted to call out Silva. :thumbdown:

[Epschtein]

anyone catch frank shamrock vs cung le last weekend?

it was a shame it had to end early like that, hopefully there will be a rematch.

frank is such a prick hehe, i love watching him fight and hate him at the same time.

[MM2]

anyone catch frank shamrock vs cung le last weekend ?

it was a shame it had to end early like that , hopefully there will be a rematch ...

frank is such a prick hehe , i love watching him fight and hate him at the same time ...

I didn't catch it, but I read that it was a great fight. I also read some comments where people were saying the fight was fixed? Is that because of the broken arm stoppage? What happened to make people think the fix was in?

[MM2]

Lauzon or Florian?

I think Florian is vastly over-rated myself. He's got top notch bjj, but I think people give him too much credit for his victories. He really hasn't beaten anyone, he beat Din Thomas but Thomas blew his knee out didn't he? Sherk handled him and Sanchez pounded him, albeit at 185.

Lauzon is younger, has more fights under his belt and trains with BJ Penn, I'm going with J-Lo in the upset! Great chance to win some dough to, Lauzon +185.

[Epschtein]

it seems like every big fight has a bunch of people calling it a work these days, i didnt see anything fishy, frank blocked a ton of big kicks with his arms so a broken arm doesnt seem strange imo.

i was planning to watch it again tonight when a friend drops by, i will post if i think anything looks odd.

but i bet its just people that are upset because it ended between rounds like that so they are lashing out hehe.

[MM2]

it seems like every big fight has a bunch of people calling it a work these days, i didnt see anything fishy, frank blocked a ton of big kicks with his arms so a broken arm doesnt seem strange imo.

i was planning to watch it again tonight when a friend drops by, i will post if i think anything looks odd.

but i bet its just people that are upset because it ended between rounds like that so they are lashing out hehe.

Yeah, from what I read Le and Shamrock were exchanging and had each other hurt at different points. I'm really surprised that Frank chose to stand with Cung the entire fight, seems like he would have had a definite advantage on the ground.

[Epschtein]

yeah he did the same thing in the fight before this against a guy that is a big striker , during the hype for the fight he promised to make it a stand-up war and then followed thru , most guys that say that leading up to a fight still try to get it to the ground right away hehe.

so i just watched it again, frank took a bunch of huge kicks to his right arm, you could easily have given cung the first two rounds, then during the third round frank seemed to be taking control about midway, he took a kick to his arm and shook it after like it hurt, but then he threw big shots with both hands and didnt appear to wince at all, with about 10 seconds to go in the round he took another big kick to his right arm and it definitely looked like it hurt him.

the only odd thing is that just as the round ends and frank is walking to his corner goldberg starts to say "frank is hu..." but his mic gets cut off, then you clearly hear someone go "shhhhhhh", lol. pretty weird.

right after that they show frank on his stool and you clearly hear him say "i broke my arm".

neither guy strikes me as the kind of guy that would agree to fix a fight but who knows, nothing i saw makes me think it was a work tho.

[MM2]

yeah he did the same thing in the fight before this against a guy that is a big striker , during the hype for the fight he promised to make it a stand-up war and then followed thru , most guys that say that leading up to a fight still try to get it to the ground right away hehe.

so i just watched it again, frank took a bunch of huge kicks to his right arm, you could easily have given cung the first two rounds, then during the third round frank seemed to be taking control about midway, he took a kick to his arm and shook it after like it hurt, but then he threw big shots with both hands and didnt appear to wince at all, with about 10 seconds to go in the round he took another big kick to his right arm and it definitely looked like it hurt him.

the only odd thing is that just as the round ends and frank is walking to his corner goldberg starts to say "frank is hu..." but his mic gets cut off, then you clearly hear someone go "shhhhhhh", lol. pretty weird.

right after that they show frank on his stool and you clearly hear him say "i broke my arm".

neither guy strikes me as the kind of guy that would agree to fix a fight but who knows, nothing i saw makes me think it was a work tho.

Yeah, I don't see Frank being a guy who would agree to a fix and be the guy who loses. Let's see how fast a rematch is made, because without the quick rematch there really is no reason for the dive.

[MM2]

Fight night tonight!

Nobody excited about this free fight night card? They bumped it up to 3 hours because its an absolutely stacked card. Houston Alexander leading things off at 7.

The fight I'm most interested in is Joe Lauzon/Kenny Florian. The Karo/Alves fight is pretty huge in terms of title shots and things too.

Should be a great night of fights!

[MM2]

Fight night tonight!

Nobody excited about this free fight night card? They bumped it up to 3 hours because its an absolutely stacked card. Houston Alexander leading things off at 7.

The fight I'm most interested in is Joe Lauzon/Kenny Florian. The Karo/Alves fight is pretty huge in terms of title shots and things too.

Should be a great night of fights!

Wow, did not see Houston Alexander going down in 8 seconds. That was crazy!

I was impressed with Kenny Florian, he's better then a thought, he was vicious with those elbows. I don't see him standing a chance against the top teir 155ers, but he's definitely a great gate keeper for the 155 division.

Nate Diaz was impressive, Pelligrino should have finished that fight in the first. Diaz is very dangerous at all times like his brother.

I do think the Karo/Alves fight was stopped too early. Karo kinda go screwed there, but Alves probably finishes the fight anyway. So that opens the door for Alves, Sanchez, Koshcheck and even Hughes to get another title shot. I wonder how the UFC is going to match up all these 170s, Fitch gets the winner of Georges/Serra, but then what?

Great card, great fights, I think this will have been better then the next PPV.

[PhishHead]

Wow, did not see Houston Alexander going down in 8 seconds. That was crazy!

I was impressed with Kenny Florian, he's better then a thought, he was vicious with those elbows. I don't see him standing a chance against the top teir 155ers, but he's definitely a great gate keeper for the 155 division.

Nate Diaz was impressive, Pelligrino should have finished that fight in the first. Diaz is very dangerous at all times like his brother.

I do think the Karo/Alves fight was stopped too early. Karo kinda go screwed there, but Alves probably finishes the fight anyway. So that opens the door for Alves, Sanchez, Koshcheck and even Hughes to get another title shot. I wonder how the UFC is going to match up all these 170s, Fitch gets the winner of Georges/Serra, but then what?

Great card, great fights, I think this will have been better then the next PPV.

I think the Alexander fight was a good stoppage, at first I was pissed but after watching it over and over again definitely a good one. He proved he has a glass jaw just like when Jardine open hand slapped him and he fell down.

Florian could definitely challenge for the title he is a completely different fighter after that fight with Sherk, I hate to agree with Rogan but he really is.

Diaz was awesome. Just like Nick a guy who can take a ton of punishment and still be dangerous. Pellegrino was hitting him so much on a wide open face and he just came back and didnt care. His triangle was awesome too how he basically just positioned it when he fell down and locked it up didnt even have to push the head down. I would not want to fight him at 155.

Karo fight was definitely stopped too early (mazzagatti did a crap job yesterday in my opinion). But in reality if he didnt step in Thiago would have kept raining down punches.

In the title picture, Fitch gets winner. But then many doors will open depending on who wins that fight. Fitch, Kos and Swick will not fight one another they have stated. Thiago, Karo, Kos, Swick, Serra (should drop down), GSP, Fitch, Hughes (maybe), Marcus Davis, Shields, Diego, are all in the title picture it is really a stacked division they just need to fight each other and sort it out.

Anthony Johnson was also sick, that punch he threw that knocked out Speers was nasty in my opinion punch of the night. I would love to see him face some top 170lbs. I do not think anyone in that division is as fast and hits as hard as him except maybe GSP. Davis hits hard but is not as fast. It should be interesting to see if he can make waves and how his ground game is. I just hope he doesnt start getting the Houston Alexander hype treatment and thrown in with good opponents without giving a chance to develop. Especially since Johnson is still so young.

Overall a great card.

TUF premiere was awesome too. The punch Dolce threw to knock out Prince was great. I found it hysterical about Paul Bradley and how he has already signed a contract with Elite without the show ever airing yet, but rumors are he did awesome on the show. Stupid wrestler with lay and pray technique I hate that crap. Cant wait to see the knock out next week that makes an ambulance come.

[Epschtein]

i didnt get to see it! blech, i dvr'd it tho, hopefully get to watch it tonight.

i did catch the first episode of TUF, i havent paid much attention to that show the last two seasons because it was getting kind of lame, but rampage definitely makes this season watchable.

too funny last night when he said he was taking notes on one guy and then goes "damn i want to write something but i dont know how to spell it".

[PhishHead]

i didnt get to see it! blech, i dvr'd it tho, hopefully get to watch it tonight.

i did catch the first episode of TUF, i havent paid much attention to that show the last two seasons because it was getting kind of lame, but rampage definitely makes this season watchable.

too funny last night when he said he was taking notes on one guy and then goes "damn i want to write something but i dont know how to spell it".

I thought Rampage was funny, but Forrest I thought was even better. That guy is hilarious. Plus its funny the way Dana introduced Rampage after introducing him he goes "i bet they are thinking damn he looks bigger on tv". Forrest being the biggest LHW really makes Rampage look tiny.

During the weigh-in Forrest had a great line that I cant remember verbatim but it was something along the lines of "everyone made weight it was great, a room full of naked dudes" it was all in his facial expression and tone but it was really good.

[MM2]

I thought Rampage was funny, but Forrest I thought was even better. That guy is hilarious. Plus its funny the way Dana introduced Rampage after introducing him he goes "i bet they are thinking damn he looks bigger on tv". Forrest being the biggest LHW really makes Rampage look tiny.

During the weigh-in Forrest had a great line that I cant remember verbatim but it was something along the lines of "everyone made weight it was great, a room full of naked dudes" it was all in his facial expression and tone but it was really good.

I didn't watch it, but during the UFN when Rogan interviewed Forrest, he said something like "Rampage said he's going to beat me up and he also said I look like the kind of guy that doesn't wipe all the way. Only one of those is true but I'm not gonna say which one yet" fuckin' hilarious!

[PhishHead]

I didn't watch it, but during the UFN when Rogan interviewed Forrest, he said something like "Rampage said he's going to beat me up and he also said I look like the kind of guy that doesn't wipe all the way. Only one of those is true but I'm not gonna say which one yet" fuckin' hilarious!

yea that was great. I love Forrest but I know that most likely Rampage will dominate him.

[King Imp]

Yeah, as much as I like Forrest, I don't think he has a chance against Rampage. I don't think he has the tools in any one area that would be able to beat Jackson. I mean, what does Griffin have that Rampage hasn't seen from the likes of Liddell, Henderson, Randelman, Silva, etc. Granted, Rampage lost twice to Silva, but I don't see Griffin having anything that Silva doesn't.

As for Fight Night, I didn't agree with either of Mazzagatti's stoppages. I know they have to err on the side of caution and all that happy horseshit, but when a fighter pops right up and shows no ill effects, you know they weren't that badly hurt. From what I saw, Alexander was putting his arms up to defend when the ref jumped in. He didn't even give him a chance to try and defend himself before calling it. Same with Parisyan. Times like this I really with Big John never retired. He makes every other ref look incompetant.

So, when is someone going to figure out that when you are in Nate Diaz' full guard to NOT engage and try to pull away for a standup? The kid's legs are so long and flexible that he can nail a submission from anywhere on the ground. I never liked his brother and I don't care much for him, but he has got some sick skills and the only way to beat him is on your feet or to catch him as Pellegrino did in the first by trapping his arms. Guaranteed if that was Mazzagatti reffing that fight, he would have stopped that one when the elbows were raining down.

Really was pulling for Lauzon as I never understood the hype of Florian, but he definitely impressed me with that win. Still don't think he can beat the likes of Penn, Sherk, Guida, or Huerta, but he is one of the top fighters no doubt. So, who officially has the gayest nickname of the two? Kenny "KenFlo" Florian or Joe "J-Lo" Lauzon. Awful, simply awful!

[PhishHead]

watch the alexander fight again he definitely goes completely limp which means you are knocked out. The 2nd or 3rd punch woke him up (ala Rampage v Chuck).

Huerta has faced no one but cans (no offense to Guida but he really is just a gatekeeper right now). He is really just a hype machine by Dana.

[King Imp]

Okay, I just watched it frame by frame on YouTube. Punch #1 (Superman Punch) landed and put him down. Punch #2 completely missed and went behind his head. Punch #3 completely missed across his face. Punch # 4 did connect, but Alexander's arms were rising at that point and if you look clearly Mazzagatti was jumping in from off screen to stop it before Punch #4 was ever thrown. He never even gave Alexander a chance to defend himself.

As for Huerta, that may be true, but lets put him and Florian in together to see for sure. Winner gets a title shot, simple as that.

[MM2]

watch the alexander fight again he definitely goes completely limp which means you are knocked out. The 2nd or 3rd punch woke him up (ala Rampage v Chuck).

Huerta has faced no one but cans (no offense to Guida but he really is just a gatekeeper right now). He is really just a hype machine by Dana.

I have to agree with Phish here, Alexander wasn't out from the superman punch, but you clearly see him out and his arms are frozen in mid air. He woke up from the last punch like when Chuck woke up from Page's last hit.

I also agree that you can't mention Guida in the same sentence you say top 155ers. Clay is tough as nails and has skills, but he doesn't have what it takes to be a champion at 155. He is a great gatekeeper though, and I see Florian as being a great gate keeper too.

I would love to see what Huerta has by putting him up against Florian. I think we might see that happen this summer.

[King Imp]

I do agree that Alexander was rocked, but what annoys me is the fact that Mazzagatti didn't even give him the chance to defend himself. I didn't see Nate Diaz' fight being stopped when he was being pummelled with his arms trapped. I didn't see Tommy Speers' fight being stopped when he was clearly out on his feet and taking huge punishment, showing absolutely no signs of defending.

Do people think that when you get rocked and fall to the ground that your hands are automatically gonna be up and defending? No, of course they are gonna fall or flop to the side. It's a natural reaction. Alexander's arms were coming up before Punch #4 (the one of two that actually landed and the one you say woke him up) ever landed, but Mazzagatti already had it in his mind to stop it before said punch was even thrown. Thats my problem with the whole stoppage.

Now, I fully understand that in real-time the refs have to make a snap decision, but if you watch it frame by frame you can see what I'm talking about.

[PhishHead]

I do agree that Alexander was rocked, but what annoys me is the fact that Mazzagatti didn't even give him the chance to defend himself. I didn't see Nate Diaz' fight being stopped when he was being pummelled with his arms trapped. I didn't see Tommy Speers' fight being stopped when he was clearly out on his feet and taking huge punishment.

Do people think that when you get rocked and fall to the ground that your hands are automatically gonna be up and defending? No, of course they are gonna fall or flop to the side. It's a natural reaction. Alexander's arms were coming up before Punch #4 (the one of two that actually landed and the one you say woke him up) ever landed, but Mazagatti already had it in his mind to stop it before said punch was even thrown. Thats my problem with the whole stoppage.

Now, I fully understand that in real-time the refs have to make a snap decision, but if you watch it frame by frame you can see what I'm talking about.

I have watched it multiple times and his arms are up because they are frozen in place by being knocked out. They are not up defending. The 3rd punch also does land if you watch it from the right angle it goes right across his chin. The 4th punch is what jolts him awake.

Look at the arms again they are up but frozen not defending. There is a difference between arms being up trying to defend and arms being frozen in place up.

and yes i do know arms fall and flop, I boxed for over 8 years.

[PhishHead]

also if you are going to say a fighter jumping up after a fight being called off is a good enough reason not to have stopped a fight is absolutely absurd as majority of fighters who get stopped think its a horrible call and jump right up. Look at Liddell when rampage knocked him out he got pissed off right away and was yelling.

[King Imp]

And how can you say they are frozen in place after being knocked out? They were at his side when he went down and then before the 4th punch was thrown he raised them. Didn't realize that someone who is unconscious can lift their appendages.

I've seen arms locked in place after a knock out, but it's usually immediately after hitting the canvas, not 2-3 seconds later like in this case.

Either way, I just think there needs to be more consistency with reffing as the other two examples I gave should have been stopped earlier, but were allowed to go on. Sure, Diaz ended up winning, but he could have been seriously hurt with his arms pinned and no way to defend. Tommy Speers, well that was just brutal to watch.

[PhishHead]

And how can you say they are frozen in place after being knocked out? They were at his side when he went down and then before the 4th punch was thrown he raised them. Didn't realize that someone who is unconscious can lift their appendages.

I've seen arms locked in place after a knock out, but it's usually immediately after hitting the canvas, not 2-3 seconds later like in this case.

Either way, I just think there needs to be more consistency with reffing as the other two examples I gave should have been stopped earlier, but were allowed to go on. Sure, Diaz ended up winning, but he could have been seriously hurt with his arms pinned and no way to defend. Tommy Speers, well that was just brutal to watch.

We are definitely watching two different fights because I see something completely different then you do. Because to me they are being raised after the 2nd punch and then when the 3rd punch connects they basically get locked up, then when the 4th punch lands and in between mazagatti jumping in they move. This is at least what I am seeing. I am not sure if you are looking at the camera angle from the back of alexander or to the left of Irvin. If you watch the one from the left of Irvin its alot better view. Even the one from the right side of Irvin is a better view.

The diaz fight the ref didnt get a good view because of the way Pellegrino was position the ref didnt get the same angle as the camera, and also diaz was squirming and moving around so from the angle the ref had most likely he thought diaz was not getting pounded as much.

[MM2]

And how can you say they are frozen in place after being knocked out? They were at his side when he went down and then before the 4th punch was thrown he raised them. Didn't realize that someone who is unconscious can lift their appendages.

I've seen arms locked in place after a knock out, but it's usually immediately after hitting the canvas, not 2-3 seconds later like in this case.

Either way, I just think there needs to be more consistency with reffing as the other two examples I gave should have been stopped earlier, but were allowed to go on. Sure, Diaz ended up winning, but he could have been seriously hurt with his arms pinned and no way to defend. Tommy Speers, well that was just brutal to watch.

I can see both arguments but unless there is a better system you have to work with what you've got. Its better to stop a match too early then too late.

As for the Diaz fight, I think it had alot to do with Diaz working to get his arms free. If he wasn't able to get his arms free it would have been stopped. Also, I think it was towards the cage right? The ref might have not had as good of a look and just saw Nate working to get free, that's purely speculation though because I don't quite remember.

Houston Alexander's arms were frozen in mid air, that was a good stoppage. The reason he was upset was because he doesn't remember himself being knocked out, same with Liddell in the Page fight. I've never been knocked out, but I assume it doesn't last too long and when you come to you don't remember having been knocked out.

Tommy Speer was definitely out on his feet, but he was still throwing punches, so I can understand not ending that one.

The Karo fight was a bad stoppage in my opinion, I don't think Karo was ever really knocked out, he was hurt pretty badly, and Alves would most likely have finished the fight, but you have to give Karo the chance to pull guard and regain his composure.

So as always there will be bad stoppages and good stoppages.

Houston = good stoppage
Karo = bad stoppage
Diaz = good NO stoppage

Fighter saftey is the most important thing.

I think they should have let the Florian/Lauzon fight go longer, Lauzon might have been able to weather that storm for the rest of the round. Florian was doing no damage and was gassing himself out. I don't disagree with the stoppage because Florian was in such a dominant position that Lauzon couldn't get out, but I'd like to see Florian actually finish that fight if its going to end that way.

[Epschtein]

just getting a chance to watch UFN now, thank god for weekends;

alexander stoppage was ok, he was stunned good but not out, but anytime you react like he did it will be stopped, i would like to see it go a little longer but sometimes that leads to 2 or 3 more vicious blows to the head, tough call but he definitely looked like he might have been completely out when his head went down and his arms appeared to get stiff...

fuckin' nate diaz man, as soon as he made it out of getting pounded in the first round i knew he was going to win, i dont root for him (cocky annoying wiggerish type) but you gotta respect his ability...

boetsch is a big striker but not very accurate, he was playing it smart until the end, not sure why he didnt back out of that position early on...

*before the next fight starts* god do i hate karo parisyan lol, rooting for thiago to KHTFO...

as much as i dislike him i have to agree that karo could have continued, i dont think he was seriously hurt, just stunned, BUT that ruling by the ref is consistent with the rules, from the refs position he took a huge knee then 3 blows that he didnt seem to react to... those blows all happened so fast tho maybe he should have given him a few seconds more, tough call...

i had no idea who speer or johnson were at the start but goddamn anthony johnson is fast, totally overwhelmed the ginger boy...

was edgar vs gray entertaining? about halfway thru the first i started fast-forwarding and just saw that it went to a decision hehe... looked like a boring win by maynard...

unfortunately i already saw that j-lau lost, i never would have bet against him, still curious to see how it goes down...

[Epschtein]

meh, that was kind of disappointing, another case where they will almost always stop it but the guy isnt necessarily really hurt or out, j-lau didnt do enough to defend and thats how it goes... oh well hehe.

respect to k-flo tho, he looked damn good.

[joethebartender]

UFC pay per View event FREE to RonFez.net folks at the Bergen Bar night. (Bergenfield, NJ) PM me or hottub to get on the list.

http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&s=66F8F118-1422-0E8C-9AB4EED145A8C771.jpg&rs=100&q=75&x=0&y=-1&w=160&h=600&ro=0

[King Imp]

http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&s=66F8F118-1422-0E8C-9AB4EED145A8C771.jpg&rs=100&q=75&x=0&y=-1&w=160&h=600&ro=0

So, who does everyone have in this one? I don't want to call it a fluke, but I can't see Serra doing to GSP what he did before. I'll say GSP by TKO in the 3rd.

[Ritalin]

I didn't have a problem with any of the stoppages the other night, because I think the ref is ALWAYS right when he stops the fight. If, as a fighter, you think it was stopped too soon, then you shouldn't have gotten yourself in a position where the ref had to make that call. There's always the next fight. Bear in mind that I'm not a fighter, just a fan, but I for one would rather see a stoppage then watch some dude's head bounce off the floor a couple of times because the ref wouldn't step in.

What I didn't get was the Diaz fight. How the hell could that guy get submitted like that? It's like he laid there and waited for it to happen. A question for anyone who does fight: it seems so obvious when you're watching that the triangle is coming. Can't you tell when you're in the fight?

[King Imp]

What I didn't get was the Diaz fight. How the hell could that guy get submitted like that? It's like he laid there and waited for it to happen. A question for anyone who does fight: it seems so obvious when you're watching that the triangle is coming. Can't you tell when you're in the fight?

Same thing here. I'm not a fighter, but I can never understand why some fighters seemingly put themselves into submissions rather than being caught by their opponent. I mean, how can a black belt in BJJ not see they are easily setting themselves up to be caught? Are they just cocky that they think they'll never be caught or that they can easily get out? I saw that Diaz triangle coming a mile away and thus why I said eariler "how long will it be before someone realizes to NOT allow themselves to get caught in Diaz' full guard."

I can't even count the number of times a fighter has given up the neck for a guillotine or the head and arm for a triangle. They just put themselves in there and all their opponent has to do it grab it. Hell, I could probably grab some of these attempts with how easy some fighters make it to be caught.

[Crippler]

Looks like recently released, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Tim Sylvia will headline a future Affliction MMA show against the final Pride Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emlianenko (http://mmajunkie.com/news/4102/emelianenko-vs-sylvia-targeted-for-july-19.mma). The show is presently slated for July 19th & will likely be co-promoted by Mark Cuban's HDNet Fights.

I don't see it being a great fight considering Tim has been caught in submissions too frequently in his big fights & Fedor is an armbar machine. But there is always the x-factor of Silvia's size & strong punching, so Fedor respecting that & keeping his distance at the start should keep it from being a walk-over.

Either way, it'll just be great to see Fedor break the ice on fighting in America (yeah, I know he fought in Pride 32 in Vegas, but that was a Japanese Promotion throwing the US a one-time bone & it was 18 months ago).

Hopefully he'll continue to fight in one of the (now) many US promotions for a while & truly establish himself to the American fringe MMA fans who only know him as a name they've heard lots about but have only seen fight on YouTube. Then, dare I dream, perhaps it will finally lead to the huge Couture fight down the line...which of course now has no chance of living up to the months upon months of hype it's received.

Now if only Comcast offered HDNet. Then again, with a card this big, maybe Cuban will find a way to make it a PPV.

[MM2]

Looks like recently released, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Tim Sylvia will headline a future Affliction MMA show against the final Pride Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emlianenko (http://mmajunkie.com/news/4102/emelianenko-vs-sylvia-targeted-for-july-19.mma). The show is presently slated for July 19th & will likely be co-promoted by Mark Cuban's HDNet Fights.

I don't see it being a great fight considering Tim has been caught in submissions too frequently in his big fights & Fedor is an armbar machine. But there is always the x-factor of Silvia's size & strong punching, so Fedor respecting that & keeping his distance at the start should keep it from being a walk-over.

Either way, it'll just be great to see Fedor break the ice on fighting in America (yeah, I know he fought in Pride 32 in Vegas, but that was a Japanese Promotion throwing the US a one-time bone & it was 18 months ago).

Hopefully he'll continue to fight in one of the (now) many US promotions for a while & truly establish himself to the American fringe MMA fans who only know him as a name they've heard lots about but have only seen fight on YouTube. Then, dare I dream, perhaps it will finally lead to the huge Couture fight down the line...which of course now has no chance of living up to the months upon months of hype it's received.

Now if only Comcast offered HDNet. Then again, with a card this big, maybe Cuban will find a way to make it a PPV.

I think we will see that Couture/Fedor around December.

I think that the Timmy Fedor matchup is an interesting one. It will be fun to watch Big Tim's stand up versus Fedor's takedowns and sub attempts. I think the worst thing that could happen would be Big Tim knocking Fedor out because that pretty much kills any heat behind Couture/Fedor. But Timmy definitely has a punchers chance in this and hopefully he works hard on his take down defense. I don't see Fedor taking the beating Big Nog did, he's too smart for that.

[Crippler]

Holy crap, look at the rumored undercard (http://dreamfighters.com/site/?action=detail&id=1207842187). I figured with Fedor at the top of the card, the rest of the night would be filled with guys I've never heard of (probably some Russian Red Devils guys as to appease Fedor) because people would buy the fight just for the main event. This, however, could be one of the best cards of the year (on paper).

[MM2]

Holy crap, look at the rumored undercard (http://dreamfighters.com/site/?action=detail&id=1207842187). I figured with Fedor at the top of the card, the rest of the night would be filled with guys I've never heard of (probably some Russian Red Devils guys as to appease Fedor) because people would buy the fight just for the main event. This, however, could be one of the best cards of the year (on paper).

Wow that is a stacked card. Too bad they couldn't get Cro Crop on that card too. I didn't know the whole Arlovski/UFC saga was done, but maybe it is? I was hoping that some of these guys would sign with Elite XC. Although it doesn't really matter since all the orgs will cross promote fights besides the UFC. I'm pretty sure Babalu is a Strikeforce guy.

[joethebartender]

Again... Bergen bar night free admission:

UFC pay per View event FREE to RonFez.net folks at the Bergen Bar night. (Tommy Fox's...Bergenfield, NJ) PM me or hottub to get on the list.

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[Epschtein]

30-24!? wow, but i gotta say it was deserving of that score, i hope kalib has something else going for himself because he isnt going to be employed by the UFC much longer.

damn tho, you have to TRY to lose 30-24 tho man. hehehe.

[Epschtein]

damn, lutter and starnes can go open a lemonade stand together, wtf is up with his conditioning?

[Crippler]

Seriously...I don't think Tank Abbott gassed that quickly in the Kimbo fight, he just got hit harder. Great to see Franklin pick someone apart like that. And what a pretty escape from that armbar. Good stuff.

I'm glad the fans turned on Starnes, I've never liked that guy. And you've gotta love the Canadian fans, just like in the WWE shows where they feign enthusiasm for every 2-count near fall, they booed & cheered at the end of that Starnes/Quarry fight everytime the camera angle changed to show a different fighter on the big screens. Those Canucks make me laugh.

Overall, another good card and a surprisingly good job of color work by KenFlo. Did they happen to mention why Rogan wasn't there? I tuned over to the clutch-fest, I mean boxing match, and missed the first 5-10 minutes of live action. I assume he got stopped at the Canadian border with some kind of illegal substance.

[Ritalin]

Crippler, I disagree. I thought it was a pretty weak card. Too many TUF fighters, and way too many walkovers. McCarthy, Starnes, and Lutter barely showed up.

And GSP is just way way too much for Serra.

I think UFC is spreading the talent way too thin. Bisbing/Franklin would have been a much better fight, for example.

[Crippler]

It definitely wasn't a great card, but I didn't feel like they stole money from me, so I guess I'm still drinking the Dana White kool-aid for now. When compared to wrestling (which I dare not compare directly) & boxing PPVs of the recent past, anytime I don't feel like someone just lifted my wallet, I'm happy.

I can definitely see how you could be underwhelmed by this card, especially coming off UFC 82 where there were undercard fights that deserved PPV time. My true feeling is that it was a lazy card. They knew they would sell out in Canada without much effort & figured that with GSP at the top of the card all they needed to was give one more decent fight in way of names (Franklin/Lutter) & fill the rest of the card with Canucks & everyone at the event would go home happy.

[MM2]

It definitely wasn't a great card, but I didn't feel like they stole money from me, so I guess I'm still drinking the Dana White kool-aid for now. When compared to wrestling (which I dare not compare directly) & boxing PPVs of the recent past, anytime I don't feel like someone just lifted my wallet, I'm happy.

I can definitely see how you could be underwhelmed by this card, especially coming off UFC 82 where there were undercard fights that deserved PPV time. My true feeling is that it was a lazy card. They knew they would sell out in Canada without much effort & figured that with GSP at the top of the card all they needed to was give one more decent fight in way of names (Franklin/Lutter) & fill the rest of the card with Canucks & everyone at the event would go home happy.

I agree, besides Kalib Starnes not wanting to fight, it was a fine PPV. The card was known to be weak going in, and I was pretty much paying the $45 just to see GSP get his revenge on Serra, so anything else was just a bonus. If you were disappointed with this after buying it then you were expecting WAY too much from a card that was underwhelming from the beginning.

The next PPV card is stacked, with three huge fights.

[King Imp]

After finding a replacement to fight Chuck at UFC 85, now Liddell is out and the main event is off for now.

Liddell vs Evans scrapped (http://mmamania.com/2008/04/21/report-chuck-liddell-vs-rashad-evans-ufc-85-fight-scrapped/)

[MM2]

After finding a replacement to fight Chuck at UFC 85, now Liddell is out and the main event is off for now.

Liddell vs Evans scrapped (http://mmamania.com/2008/04/21/report-chuck-liddell-vs-rashad-evans-ufc-85-fight-scrapped/)

Well that definitely sucks, that injury looks like it fuckin' hurts lol. I hope they don't try to move one of the 3 co-main events on 84 to 85.

Hopefully they'll put the Evans/Thiago fight back on.

[thegomez]

I had a feeling something was up cause on the ppv this weekened when they mentioned UFC 85 they never brought up Chucks name.

I have tickets to UFC 84 and I was pissed when they moved Evans off that card...they better not take Wanderli away from me.

[MM2]

I had a feeling something was up cause on the ppv this weekened when they mentioned UFC 85 they never brought up Chucks name.

I have tickets to UFC 84 and I was pissed when they moved Evans off that card...they better not take Wanderli away from me.

Unfortunately that's probably the only thing they can do, move Jardine/Silva to the main event of 85.

I really hope they don't do that though.

[King Imp]

The faces on the UFC 85 logo are now Werdum and Vera, so maybe they are making that the main event.

[MM2]

The faces on the UFC 85 logo are now Werdum and Vera, so maybe they are making that the main event.

That was the co-main event right? If they just move that into the sole main event you can count me out of buying that PPV. That would be terrible. That fight was borderline co-main event already, a decent mid card fight but a headline fight? No way!

I'm drawing a huge blank, but what guys haven't fought in awhile?

How about Matt Hughes/Diego Sanchez? Or a Sanchez/Kos rematch? Obviously that wouldn't be a headliner but could beef up the card.

I know Bisping just fought, but what about a Leben/Bisping matchup? Bisping being a big overseas draw.

Any ideas?

[King Imp]

I know Bisping just fought, but what about a Leben/Bisping matchup? Bisping being a big overseas draw.


I don't know if this was announced before you posted that, but if not we should start calling you Kreskin. It's not official yet, but they are thinking about this fight.

Oh, and if it happens, I hope Bisping destroys him as I never liked that cocky asshole Leben.

[MM2]

I don't know if this was announced before you posted that, but if not we should start calling you Kreskin. It's not official yet, but they are thinking about this fight.

Oh, and if it happens, I hope Bisping destroys him as I never liked that cocky asshole Leben.

Haha, Leben is cocky, but Bisping is one cocky MFer too. I like Leben, I think you either like him or hate him, he has his flaws as a fighter but he brings it and most of his fights are exciting. He has legit power and a great chin. Bisping is definitely the more technical fighter, but he has to fear that left from Leben.

And I take no credit for the matchup, Leben was on the radio a week or so ago saying he wanted to fight Bisping or Okami next.

We'll see what they do, they have to do something to add to that card. James Irvin is going to fill in for Liddell, but that's not a main event fight, Evans/Irvin? Give me a break! I like the matchup, but that's a mid card fight.

EDIT: I know Leben/Bisping isn't a main event either, what they need to do is get Dan Henderson on the card.

[King Imp]

what they need to do is get Dan Henderson on the card.

I would like to see Henderson be given a tuneup fight so he can finally get a win in the UFC and then set up a huge fight between him and Franklin.


You mentioned Hughes earlier. I don't think he'll fight anyone tough right now because it's more than likely that they will want to set up that Hughes vs Serra fight that was supposed to happen earlier.

[MM2]

I would like to see Henderson be given a tuneup fight so he can finally get a win in the UFC and then set up a huge fight between him and Franklin.


You mentioned Hughes earlier. I don't think he'll fight anyone tough right now because it's more than likely that they will want to set up that Hughes vs Serra fight that was supposed to happen earlier.

Yeah, I agree with the Hughes thing, but I was thinking that the fight between him and Serra has so much heat behind it, it really doesn't matter if they are coming off losses or not, you know? Just straight grudge match could definitely be a co-main event at any PPV no matter what happened in their last fights. Most fights don't get this much heat behind them.

I think Henderson might move back up to LHW, the only reason he moved down was for the Silva fight, he's said he likes to fight at 205. They should have put him in there with Evans, that could have been the main event.

[MM2]

I would like to see Henderson be given a tuneup fight so he can finally get a win in the UFC and then set up a huge fight between him and Franklin.


You mentioned Hughes earlier. I don't think he'll fight anyone tough right now because it's more than likely that they will want to set up that Hughes vs Serra fight that was supposed to happen earlier.

Looks like we might get a Mir/Big Nog title fight main event for UFC 85. That with the added Bisping/Leben fight make this a pretty nice card.

Frank Mir vs. Big Nog (rumored)
Rashad Evans vs. James Irvin
Brandon Vera vs. Fabricio Werdum
Chris Leben vs. Michael Bisping (rumored)
Thales Leites vs. Nate Marquardt
Martin Kampmann vs. Jorge Rivera
Marcus Davis vs. Mike Swick

Pretty freakin' stacked card, I wonder what fights would get dropped to the undercard?

[King Imp]

Looks like we might get a Mir/Big Nog title fight main event for UFC 85.

If that's the case, then I have to say they are truly grasping at straws and have no idea what to do with Couture leaving.

Not saying Mir isn't a good fighter, but lets be honest here. He's not the Frank Mir of old. He got destroyed by Brandon Vera, beat a virtual nobody with a record of 6-4 and then had his ass handed to him by Brock Lesnar until Lesnar proved he knows nothing about MMA by easily being caught in a leg lock.

If this is the best they can find to put up for a title fight, then just abandon the HW belt until they can figure something out.

If it weren't for the fact that Cheick Kongo just lost to Heath Herring, then I'd say he should get a shot.

[MM2]

If that's the case, then I have to say they are truly grasping at straws and have no idea what to do with Couture leaving.

Not saying Mir isn't a good fighter, but lets be honest here. He's not the Frank Mir of old. He got destroyed by Brandon Vera, beat a virtual nobody with a record of 6-4 and then had his ass handed to him by Brock Lesnar until Lesnar proved he knows nothing about MMA by easily being caught in a leg lock.

If this is the best they can find to put up for a title fight, then just abandon the HW belt until they can figure something out.

If it weren't for the fact that Cheick Kongo just lost to Heath Herring, then I'd say he should get a shot.

I have to disagree, I think its a great fight, two BJJ experts. I think Big Nog takes it, but I think it will be a good fight. A Kongo/Big Nog fight would be just like the Sylvia fight, nothing new. A battle of two BJJ guys should be good and its a title fight.

[King Imp]

The new main event for UFC 85 - Matt Hughes vs Thiago Alves

Actually surprised that he went for such a fight as Alves is no pushover. Should be a hell of a fight.

[MM2]

The new main event for UFC 85 - Matt Hughes vs Thiago Alves

Actually surprised that he went for such a fight as Alves is no pushover. Should be a hell of a fight.

Well I think he knows he's far away from a title shot, this fight has no barring on the Serra fight, so it makes sense for both guys. If Hughes wins he proves he's still a top WW, just can't hang with GSP and might be able to get a 4th fight with GSP if he beats Serra. If Alves wins, he gets the next title shot.

Should be a great fight!

[King Imp]

This one I am dying to see. It is rumored that Kenny Florian will fight Roger Huerta at UFC 87.

I know a few of you see Huerta as a "gatekeeper", but I still contend that he is the real deal and deserves a title shot. I will gladly admit I'm wrong if he does lose to Florian. I just hope those of you who said otherwise will admit you were wrong if he in fact wins.

Oh, and another rumored fight for that card is Mark Coleman vs Brock Lesnar.

[Ritalin]

This one I am dying to see. It is rumored that Kenny Florian will fight Roger Huerta at UFC 87.

I know a few of you see Huerta as a "gatekeeper", but I still contend that he is the real deal and deserves a title shot. I will gladly admit I'm wrong if he does lose to Florian. I just hope those of you who said otherwise will admit you were wrong if he in fact wins.

Oh, and another rumored fight for that card is Mark Coleman vs Brock Lesnar.

Florian/Huerta is a great fight. I don't know why I don't like Huerta, but if he gets past Kenny, he'll have my respect. Maybe I don't dig Roger because he beat one of my favorite fighters, Clay Guida.

[MM2]

This one I am dying to see. It is rumored that Kenny Florian will fight Roger Huerta at UFC 87.

I know a few of you see Huerta as a "gatekeeper", but I still contend that he is the real deal and deserves a title shot. I will gladly admit I'm wrong if he does lose to Florian. I just hope those of you who said otherwise will admit you were wrong if he in fact wins.

Oh, and another rumored fight for that card is Mark Coleman vs Brock Lesnar.

I actually see Florian as the gate keeper, not Huerta. Kenny is what 32 or 33? He's got some years left, but he can't beat Penn or Sherk at 155, contenders will have to get through Florian, but I don't see Florian ever holding the title. Huerta is young like 24 25, and he's got alot of room for improvement. I think Florian probably takes this fight, but Huerta has a bright bright future in the 155 division.

Now I'm not upset at the Hughes/Alves fight because I think it will be a great fight with title implications for Alves and possibly Hughes, but it looks like we got the worst matchup of the 4 that the UFC tried to book. The UFC threw out offers to St. Pierre to fight Fitch, Franklin to fight Hendo and Anderson Silva to fight Okami. They were all declined, the fights will happen, but later on, St. Pierre and Franklin didn't think it was enough time to get ready, and I can see that. Silva has some kind of injury or something. I'm happy with Hughes/Alves, Leben/Bisping, but one of those other fights would have been definite main event caliber.

[Epschtein]

espn is doing a story tonight on that E60 show about gina carano, its on at 7 EST.

[Chigworthy]

Mir and Nog announced officially as the next coaches for TUF was reported yesterday on Cagepotato.

[MM2]

Mir and Nog announced officially as the next coaches for TUF was reported yesterday on Cagepotato.

I liike the match up, but it goes to show you how weak the HW division is in the UFC as Mir should not be the #1 contender after just one win versus a very green Brock Lesnar. I think HW is the division with the least amount of talent in the whole sport, so Dana White should be trying his hardest to keep guys like Arlovski and Sylvia. And he should have done what it took to get the Couture/Fedor fight in the UFC.

[King Imp]

espn is doing a story tonight on that E60 show about gina carano, its on at 7 EST.

Speaking of Gina, she is also fighting on that EliteXC show that is going to be on CBS on May 31st.

[Chigworthy]

Patrick Schultz is a Guile-haired douchewad. It's amazing how someone with such an aerodynamically chinless face can move so slow. How many times did he telegraph that tortugan right hook to Cale's body? That's the type of garbage that gets on the show while the UFC cuts it's existing roster? Cale was not much better.

[King Imp]

Patrick Schultz is a Guile-haired douchewad. It's amazing how someone with such an aerodynamically chinless face can move so slow. How many times did he telegraph that tortugan right hook to Cale's body? That's the type of garbage that gets on the show while the UFC cuts it's existing roster? Cale was not much better.


That really was a pathetic performance by both fighters, but at least Cale tried somewhat. Schultz didn't even look like he knows how to throw a punch. How Rampage thought he won that first round was beyond me.

I was really hoping for Forrest to rip Schultz a new one after that asshole said something to Griffin about how he can't wait for his fight with Rampage. He's lucky Rampage's coaches are clueless and he was even brought back. He sucked in his first fight and he sucked in his second. They should just kick his worthless ass out of the house out of principle.

[Ritalin]

Seriously, I have better ground skills than that loser, and I've never trained a day in my life.

And in the first fight, didn't it seem like Amir had about 3 or 4 really good chances to submit from the bottom? I mean, he basically had a triangle at one point and didn't even seem to notice. I'm glad he won, because I HATE watching wrestlers lay on top. So dull.

[Chigworthy]

I'm not too big on these seasons with a lot of inexperienced fighters. I thought that season where they gave established fighters a second chance was pretty good, the one with Jorge Rivera, Shone Carter, Serra, and all them. Plus you got to see what a douche Charles McCarthy is.

[PhishHead]

I'm not too big on these seasons with a lot of inexperienced fighters. I thought that season where they gave established fighters a second chance was pretty good, the one with Jorge Rivera, Shone Carter, Serra, and all them. Plus you got to see what a douche Charles McCarthy is.

I had a long post written out to you about those comments and I realized it is definitely not worth it because your knowledge of the sport is obviously shit.

[Chigworthy]

I had a long post written out to you about those comments and I realized it is definitely not worth it because your knowledge of the sport is obviously shit.

What did I type that could have irritated you so much? If you really think that I need help understanding the sport, why not explain to me, rather than make an asshole insult?

[PhishHead]

What did I type that could have irritated you so much? If you really think that I need help understanding the sport, why not explain to me, rather than make an asshole insult?

You call them inexperienced fighters which obviously means you only know about big name fighters. Every single season of TUF has had fighters that have done alot or accomplished alot in other promotions (minus the one season you mentioned which were all comeback guys).

For example this season has CB Dolloway, Gerald Harris, Mike Dolce, Tim Creduer, Matt Brown. All this guys are well known around the big camps and have had great experience. Tim being a bjj black belt and CB being an all american wrestler from ASU (school where Hendo and Severn went). Harris is a monster at Team Quest with Dolce. Brown has always been known as a tough ass fighter and one of the many reasons many top guys go train with him because he will bring it every single time in training camp. It is not like these guys are unknown to the fighting community they are just unknown to the mainstream audience. Their skills are not as bad as some of the UFC fighters under contract right now.

It wasn't so much your comment that annoyed me I think it was just the build up of alot of things in this thread. Btw to everyone who is criticizing Schultz he broke his hand in the first round of the fight with Cale.

[Ritalin]

Phish, you gotta reel it in a little. Not everybody lurks Sherdog and bones up on the lower level promotions. Some of the guys on TUF have no record, so they're not all out of the big camps.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread who isn't a fan, and isn't that what it's all about? I think everyone has a basic level of respect for each fighter just for stepping in the ring, but rivalries and stories develop. And I don't think you have to be a BJJ black belt to see when a fighter doesn't have much ground game.

We're just a bunch of dudes who like watching other dudes kick the crap out of each other.

Don't harsh the mellow.

[Chigworthy]

I understand where you're coming from Phish, but as stated above there are some fighters with little or no record. That Schultz/Cale fight was pretty sad.

I don't just know big name fighters, I love the sport, it's the only sport I follow. I've gone to local MMA events, I've watched David Terrell and his Gracie buddies training poeple at his gym, and my wife is good friends with a local fighter who was doing very well on small local promotions before he gave it up to be a cop. I watch old/new/big/small fights online all the time, and I visit the fansites regularly. In a sport with a relatively small amount of coverage, I don't know what else I could do to be a good fan.

I don't understand how you divined the breadth of my MMA knowlege from one post, but even if you were right in your assumptions about me, you shouldn't get pissed about it. There are bigger fans than you, and there are smaller fans than you. I'm sure someone could take something you've said about the sport and find some lack of commitment or whatever there. The last thing I want to do is turn this thread into a flame war, but I just felt a little insulted by your post.

As far as my post, I just find it silly to be giving these guys a shot while cutting your active roster of better fighters. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know I'm right about Charles McCarthy being a douche. And Ritalin, I like the "reel it in" pun. You're a regular Johnny Jokes.

[Ritalin]

And Ritalin, I like the "reel it in" pun. You're a regular Johnny Jokes.

completely unintentional

[Chigworthy]

completely unintentional

You should have claimed it.

[cougarjake13]

kimbo vs tyson

rumors are they are trying to get this match done



circus act or a good fight ???

[Chigworthy]

Didn't they pull some gimmick in Pride with Tyson figthing Bob Sapp? It never happened if I remember correctly. I predict more of the same.

[King Imp]

Cale is going to get killed in his next fight. Won't say against who for those that haven't seen the latest episode yet.

If he makes it past 3 minutes I will be surprised.

[MM2]

I understand where you're coming from Phish, but as stated above there are some fighters with little or no record. That Schultz/Cale fight was pretty sad.

I don't just know big name fighters, I love the sport, it's the only sport I follow. I've gone to local MMA events, I've watched David Terrell and his Gracie buddies training poeple at his gym, and my wife is good friends with a local fighter who was doing very well on small local promotions before he gave it up to be a cop. I watch old/new/big/small fights online all the time, and I visit the fansites regularly. In a sport with a relatively small amount of coverage, I don't know what else I could do to be a good fan.

I don't understand how you divined the breadth of my MMA knowlege from one post, but even if you were right in your assumptions about me, you shouldn't get pissed about it. There are bigger fans than you, and there are smaller fans than you. I'm sure someone could take something you've said about the sport and find some lack of commitment or whatever there. The last thing I want to do is turn this thread into a flame war, but I just felt a little insulted by your post.

As far as my post, I just find it silly to be giving these guys a shot while cutting your active roster of better fighters. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know I'm right about Charles McCarthy being a douche. And Ritalin, I like the "reel it in" pun. You're a regular Johnny Jokes.


I agree, you don't want this thread to turn into Sherdog, that place is terrible, I would like people with little or no knowledge of the sport to post in this thread and ask questions. Phish, you have alot of information to pass along, you've got me thinking about different things and have changed my mind on some things. There is alot of information out there on the sport these days, but a few years ago information was so hard to find.

Now onto the PPV this Saturday...

Phish I know you aren't going to like this pick, but I've got Tito beating Machida! I think if Tito is really 100% healthy, he'll be able to take down Machida at will and GnP him to a TKO in the 2nd or 3rd. Now I will not be even remotely surprised if a boring Tito shows up and Machida out strikes him and wins a decision, but I think if Tito is on his game he'll be able to take Machida down and although Machida will win the stand up, Tito will get alot of take downs and will eventually GnP him to a TKO!

Silva/Jardine is very interesting. This one is so hard to call, my heart wants to pick Silva but my head wants me to go Jardine. Its going to be all about Jardine keeping Silva at bay. If Jardine can use his kicks and keep Silva on the outside, its gonna be a long night for Silva, but Silva won't quit and he will keep charging at Jardine, so its very well possible that Jardine won't be able to keep Silva away like he did Liddell since Silva will be coming at him full force for the entire fight. I will say Silva will land a nice punch and KO Jardine in the 2nd.

Penn/Sherk, I don't think Sherk has a chance. Penn easy, 2nd round submission.

What are your picks everyone?

[MM2]

kimbo vs tyson

rumors are they are trying to get this match done



circus act or a good fight ???

How about a circus act and a fight I want to see lol.

It's probably bad for the sport, but if Tyson can get himself in some kind of shape, I'd love to see this. Kimbo wins easy, honestly, I think Kimbo would win in a straight boxing match too because Tyson is just a washed up hasbeen. But I would still pay to see it.

If Elite XC is serious about building up Kimbo, they don't need these types of fights. He needs to fight people who are going to challenge him to get better.

Now if its all about money, then they should do this because it will make money. Most fans of MMA won't be happy, but alot of people would pay to see this.

The match up I like for Kimbo next is Tito, that would be a real test for Kimbo, and he might not be ready for a fighter like Tito, but this would challenge him to work on his take down defense.

Do you think a loss to Tito would the Kimbo hype machine? Or would it build to a rematch?

[King Imp]

Talk about an upgrade to a card!

Coleman vs Lesnar off due to a Coleman injury and GSP vs Fitch for the title added (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=12168).

[PhishHead]

I agree, you don't want this thread to turn into Sherdog, that place is terrible, I would like people with little or no knowledge of the sport to post in this thread and ask questions. Phish, you have alot of information to pass along, you've got me thinking about different things and have changed my mind on some things. There is alot of information out there on the sport these days, but a few years ago information was so hard to find.

Now onto the PPV this Saturday...

Phish I know you aren't going to like this pick, but I've got Tito beating Machida! I think if Tito is really 100% healthy, he'll be able to take down Machida at will and GnP him to a TKO in the 2nd or 3rd. Now I will not be even remotely surprised if a boring Tito shows up and Machida out strikes him and wins a decision, but I think if Tito is on his game he'll be able to take Machida down and although Machida will win the stand up, Tito will get alot of take downs and will eventually GnP him to a TKO!

Silva/Jardine is very interesting. This one is so hard to call, my heart wants to pick Silva but my head wants me to go Jardine. Its going to be all about Jardine keeping Silva at bay. If Jardine can use his kicks and keep Silva on the outside, its gonna be a long night for Silva, but Silva won't quit and he will keep charging at Jardine, so its very well possible that Jardine won't be able to keep Silva away like he did Liddell since Silva will be coming at him full force for the entire fight. I will say Silva will land a nice punch and KO Jardine in the 2nd.

Penn/Sherk, I don't think Sherk has a chance. Penn easy, 2nd round submission.

What are your picks everyone?

I apologize to everyone for going off. I think the thing that bothered me was just people saying these guys are inexperienced and they have better ground games then them even done in joking fashion it bothered me mostly because I did bjj for a number of years and boxing for even more and I know the difficulties it takes to do alot of the crap these guys do especially with injuries. I apologize I shouldn't have taken it out the way I did I should have been articulate in my response.

Okay fuck all that and lets talk about the fights.

Tito and Lyoto, I have to to tell you I have gone back and forth with this fight a million times. Lyoto completely destroyed Soko but was it the Soko we have grown to love from Pride or was he apprehensive in his first fight in the cage? Who knows but he dismantled a top Judo guy with amazing power. Tito hasn't been "tito" in a long time. He blames his back. I don't know it is really tough to gauge Tito. He has a good skill set in wrestling, sprawling, and GnP but that's about it, he has not evolved with the sport as much as other fighters have. Lyoto is such a methodical fighter, yes he may be boring, but every thing he does in the ring has another 10 reasons behind it why he did it. He is like a chess master that makes a move but knows the next 15 moves on the board. This will be his first real test inside the UFC. I don't want to pick someone because it is really close. Lyoto has never faced anyone with takedown ability like Tito. The only fighter he has faced with a great ground game was BJ Penn and Lyoto was at 205 and Penn was at like 185 and Penn almost won and took him to a decision with Lyoto winning. But if I have to pick I pick Lyoto.

Silva v Jardine, this is another hard fight to pick. If Jardine can keep Silva far away with his kicks and reach he may have a chance. Silva though is a cardio machine and always gets inside no matter what. If Silva is able to get inside and just land some of his patent uppercuts and dirty boxing tactics, Jardine will go down. Mostly likely win or lose, Silva is going to move down to 185 he just is not big enough to compete with the huge 205s in UFC. I say Silva by KO in the 3rd finally landing a huge uppercut.

Penn v Sherk. This will all depend on which BJ Penn shows up, the one who destroyed Joe Stevenson or the lazy bum who could care less and just hopes he wins. If the real BJ shows up and has his cardio, Sherk has no chance. BJ most likely won't be able to get a RNC or an armbar because of the way Sherk is built, but I am going to say BJ gets a triangle somewhere in the 2nd. I have a feeling BJ may even let Sherk take him down so he can get on his back and work his semi-rubber guard to land a triangle or gogoplata. Sherk does not have a good GnP he just lays there and Penn will make him pay for it. Plus I think the one thing people don't realize is how awesome Penn's chin is. Look what Matt Hughes was doing to him with those Elbows in his fight and he didn't even flinch. Pulver landed amazing shots against him in their first fight and it didn't even move Penn. Sherk's standup sucks. I see Penn submitting him in the 2nd.

[PhishHead]

Talk about an upgrade to a card!

Coleman vs Lesnar off due to a Coleman injury and GSP vs Fitch for the title added (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=12168).

Thank god that joke of a match is off. Give Lesnar real competition. He almost beat Mir but just didn't have enough experience. Don't throw him some guy who was good a long time ago and is now 40+ years old.

GSP v Fitch will be awesome. Can't wait for that one.

[MM2]

I apologize to everyone for going off. I think the thing that bothered me was just people saying these guys are inexperienced and they have better ground games then them even done in joking fashion it bothered me mostly because I did bjj for a number of years and boxing for even more and I know the difficulties it takes to do alot of the crap these guys do especially with injuries. I apologize I shouldn't have taken it out the way I did I should have been articulate in my response.

Okay fuck all that and lets talk about the fights.

Tito and Lyoto, I have to to tell you I have gone back and forth with this fight a million times. Lyoto completely destroyed Soko but was it the Soko we have grown to love from Pride or was he apprehensive in his first fight in the cage? Who knows but he dismantled a top Judo guy with amazing power. Tito hasn't been "tito" in a long time. He blames his back. I don't know it is really tough to gauge Tito. He has a good skill set in wrestling, sprawling, and GnP but that's about it, he has not evolved with the sport as much as other fighters have. Lyoto is such a methodical fighter, yes he may be boring, but every thing he does in the ring has another 10 reasons behind it why he did it. He is like a chess master that makes a move but knows the next 15 moves on the board. This will be his first real test inside the UFC. I don't want to pick someone because it is really close. Lyoto has never faced anyone with takedown ability like Tito. The only fighter he has faced with a great ground game was BJ Penn and Lyoto was at 205 and Penn was at like 185 and Penn almost won and took him to a decision with Lyoto winning. But if I have to pick I pick Lyoto.

Silva v Jardine, this is another hard fight to pick. If Jardine can keep Silva far away with his kicks and reach he may have a chance. Silva though is a cardio machine and always gets inside no matter what. If Silva is able to get inside and just land some of his patent uppercuts and dirty boxing tactics, Jardine will go down. Mostly likely win or lose, Silva is going to move down to 185 he just is not big enough to compete with the huge 205s in UFC. I say Silva by KO in the 3rd finally landing a huge uppercut.

Penn v Sherk. This will all depend on which BJ Penn shows up, the one who destroyed Joe Stevenson or the lazy bum who could care less and just hopes he wins. If the real BJ shows up and has his cardio, Sherk has no chance. BJ most likely won't be able to get a RNC or an armbar because of the way Sherk is built, but I am going to say BJ gets a triangle somewhere in the 2nd. I have a feeling BJ may even let Sherk take him down so he can get on his back and work his semi-rubber guard to land a triangle or gogoplata. Sherk does not have a good GnP he just lays there and Penn will make him pay for it. Plus I think the one thing people don't realize is how awesome Penn's chin is. Look what Matt Hughes was doing to him with those Elbows in his fight and he didn't even flinch. Pulver landed amazing shots against him in their first fight and it didn't even move Penn. Sherk's standup sucks. I see Penn submitting him in the 2nd.

Looks like we've got pretty much the same views on the fights. Alot of people under estimate Penn because of his lack of conditioning and how he really doesn't look like he's a figther, and he can be a bit of an arrogant dick sometimes lol. I think people just don't understand that Penn is probably the most gifted fighter in the world, he was born to fight. His flexibility is unbelievable and he has KO power and has a great chin. He can stand with anyone and he can roll with anyone, when he's got his head in the fight he cannot be beat. I would say he's the best p4p fighter in the world, for whatever that's worth. Now if he doesn't feel like someone is a challenge to him, he won't train and he won't show up, but he's more then ready for this fight, he hates Sherk for all the steriods stuff and he wants to show the world that he's the man. Now if Sherk can withstand the wrath that Penn's going to bring for the first two rounds, he could possibly win the last 3 and take a decision but I dont' see that happening.

He's already said that if he beats Sherk that he doesn't see himself getting up for a fight with Florian or Huerta. He wants GSP after this fight, and I don't really blame him.

[MM2]

Thank god that joke of a match is off. Give Lesnar real competition. He almost beat Mir but just didn't have enough experience. Don't throw him some guy who was good a long time ago and is now 40+ years old.

GSP v Fitch will be awesome. Can't wait for that one.

Yeah, they need to give Lesnar a test, not a washed up version of himself lol, I want to see him improve from fight to fight and become the future of the HW division. I'd say put him in there with Heath Herring!

[King Imp]

Yeah, they need to give Lesnar a test, not a washed up version of himself lol, I want to see him improve from fight to fight and become the future of the HW division. I'd say put him in there with Heath Herring!

Good call! They just signed that fight.

[Crippler]

Good call! They just signed that fight (Lesnar vs. Herring).

Now that's the kind of fight that can begin to make (or break?) Lesnar. Giving him Mir so early was a mistake because the ending we saw was exactly what you would have expected assuming Mir could weather the storm of an early barrage of strikes by Lesnar.

Lesnar vs Herring should be a slug fest. Herring is obviously an experienced fighter, and even though he looked good in his last fight, the first handful of fights I saw him featured in, he gave very lackluster performances. This fight can put Herring on his way back up the mountain or give Lesnar that first win over a "name" fighter to get his career really going.

Good job by the fight makers for making this fight & good job by MM2 for calling it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Less than an hour till UFC 84...looks like a really good card.

Penn & Sherk has worked itself into a really nice grudge match. If Penn is truly focused it's hard to see him losing, but Sherk can go all night so BJ would be better served to put him away fairly early.

Machida & Ortiz is tough to call because I haven't seen all that much of Machida & as a karate guy he has a style you don't normally see. But I'm almost as interested in the post fight as I am in the fight itself. Should Tito win his post fight interview will be real interesting.

Silva & Jardine should be a Griffin/Bonnar-esque slug fest. For Silva's sake, he had better win or it'll be 4 in a row. Jardine can withstand a loss, but he's certainly proven himself capable of shocking the world, so who knows?

And there's more good stuff to be had beyond that...can't wait!

[Epschtein]

im so out of touch lately, real busy, when are the next big MMA events?

i saw uriah vs jens advertised the other day, when is that? there is a UFC next weekend right?

[Crippler]

June 1st (next Sunday) is Faber vs. Pulver on VersuS Network, from Sacremento, CA

But May 31st, the night before, is the debut of Elite XC on CBS with the Kimbo Main Event, Robbie Lawler/Scott Smith should-be Main Event, Baroni/Villsenor, & Gina Carano on the card...all live from the Prudential Center in scenic Newark, NJ.

June 7th is UFC 85 from London, featuring Hughes/Alves, Leben/Bisbing, Werdum/Vera, & Marcus Davis/Mike Swick.

June 14th another Elite XC event with KJ Noons defending the 160lb title...Nick Diaz & Marilo Rua also have fights on that card.

June 15th is the DREAM.4 show, Middleweight Grand Prix Quarterfinals Round, plus a CroCop fight.

June 21st is the scheduled 2nd Yamma Event, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
June 21st is also the Ultiate Fighter - Team Griffin vs. Team Rampage finals, with Evan Tanner/Kendall Grove, Diego Sanchez/Fiorvante, and Jeremy Horn/Dean Lister also on the card.

July 5th is UFC 86 from Las Vegas - Rampage/Forrest, Koscheck/Lytle, Joe Stevenson, Patrick Cote, Melvin Guillard also on the card.

July 19th is Affliction "Banned" from Anaheim, CA - Fedor/Sylvia, Barnett/Rizzo, Lindland/Negao, Sobral/Whitehead, etc.

[MM2]

I agree, you don't want this thread to turn into Sherdog, that place is terrible, I would like people with little or no knowledge of the sport to post in this thread and ask questions. Phish, you have alot of information to pass along, you've got me thinking about different things and have changed my mind on some things. There is alot of information out there on the sport these days, but a few years ago information was so hard to find.

Now onto the PPV this Saturday...

Phish I know you aren't going to like this pick, but I've got Tito beating Machida! I think if Tito is really 100% healthy, he'll be able to take down Machida at will and GnP him to a TKO in the 2nd or 3rd. Now I will not be even remotely surprised if a boring Tito shows up and Machida out strikes him and wins a decision, but I think if Tito is on his game he'll be able to take Machida down and although Machida will win the stand up, Tito will get alot of take downs and will eventually GnP him to a TKO!

Silva/Jardine is very interesting. This one is so hard to call, my heart wants to pick Silva but my head wants me to go Jardine. Its going to be all about Jardine keeping Silva at bay. If Jardine can use his kicks and keep Silva on the outside, its gonna be a long night for Silva, but Silva won't quit and he will keep charging at Jardine, so its very well possible that Jardine won't be able to keep Silva away like he did Liddell since Silva will be coming at him full force for the entire fight. I will say Silva will land a nice punch and KO Jardine in the 2nd.

Penn/Sherk, I don't think Sherk has a chance. Penn easy, 2nd round submission.

What are your picks everyone?

Pretty much went as I expected it to. It delievered. The most exciting moment of the entire PPV for me was when Tito got that triangle on Machida, I thought for sure Machida would tap but Tito let go and went for the arm bar, Machida probably would have gotten out of the triangle anyway because of how slippery they were but WOW that just came out of nowhere. I was sitting there with my friends and I was just about to say when Machida was on top of Tito that too bad Tito isn't flexiable enough to get a triangle, and sure enough I thought I must be dreaming lol.

Big mistake by Jardine, why try to come out more agressive than Silva? Do you trust your chin that much? Seems like he should have used the same game plan that he did for Liddell and use his leg kicks to keep Silva away, but it looked like he was going to use his kicks in combos and be agressive, big mistake. Man seeing Silva holding his throat and laying leather, its the first time I got that feeling watching Silva like when he was in Pride, he was a scary MFer over there.

Sherk had another bad game plan, I think that a good game plan would have been to stand with BJ for the first two rounds landing some leg kicks, which he landed a few, he should have thrown more. In the third round he should have come with the shots and tried to get Penn down, hopefully having tired him out with those leg kicks in the first two rounds, and steal the last three rounds and win a decision. Instead he chose to stand, I was alittle impressed with Sherk's stand up in the first round, but he should have realized in the second that he can't stand with Penn anymore. Great flying knee by Penn.

So do we see Penn/GSP? I'm guessing that Penn will be forced to face Huerta/Florian winner, and we all know that Penn doesn't like being forced to do anything lol. So he could very well not take that fight seriously and lose.

I know I'm being a Penn homer, because he's my favorite fighter, but I'd really like to see Penn face Anderson Silva. I can see that fight being a murder by Silva, but I can also see Penn giving Silva some trouble on his feet and definitely on the mat with that amazing flexibility. If Penn could get himself in the type of shape he's in at 155 and weigh like 175, I'd love to see him face Silva. It probably will never happen, but it's still my #1 dream matchup.

And I did just see that Herring/Lesnar is signed, that's what I'm talking about! I should be a damn match maker! :clap:

[Epschtein]

thanx for the schedule crippler.

just caught saturday's UFC, good fights. wtf was sherk doing, maybe he didnt feel like he could do anything else but BJ just picked him apart.

cant wait for uriah vs jens, jens always makes it worth watching.

[King Imp]

Really surprised on the outcome of the second TUF fight last night. I'll leave it at that until everyone has had a chance to watch it.

[Epschtein]

bad call taking a half hour to get to the first fight imo, production is pretty typical MMA.

i have grown to appreciate phil baroni but figured villasenor would get him, good fight tho.

lol @ gina coming in heavy again, so lame. but i like her, kaitlin doing ok so far.

edit - damn gina's tough, she really has to stop coming in heavy tho, its disrespectful. i know they have a system in place for it but the other fighter either has to agree to fight at a disadvantage or lose money. its a no-win situation for the person that works hard and makes weight. oh and the conviction nickname is stupid hehe.

[Chigworthy]

This thread is rife with spoliers for us west coasters.

[Epschtein]

sorry, im not used to the spoiler rules around here i guess. other places i post if its the night of an event you expect people to be talking about it during it.

but i guess if you have to use spoiler tags in the TV show threads i should have expected it here. my bad.

[Chigworthy]

Actually I wasn't complaining so much as being jealous of your ability to see the future.

[Epschtein]

hehe ;)

every fighter should know you cant tell a doctor that you cant see, but at the same time if he still had recovery time left then it shouldnt matter, its not like he was saying he couldnt see from swelling or bleeding, there was a reasonable expectation that his vision would return if given his full recovery time, they need to clarify that with everyone because if he wasnt given his full 5 minutes then that was a bad decision by the doctor

[BoondockSaint]

Nice ear.

[Grendel_Kahn]

This fight is fixed. Shame on them.

[Grendel_Kahn]

1 he tapped to that front choke and no one noticed?

2 3 different tries @ a kimora and no go? Plus he GAVE him that sweep.

and now as I type this he is ground/pound and they aren't stopping? Please.

[Grendel_Kahn]

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIX!!!!!!

I woulda mushed the ref too.

[smiler grogan]

1 he tapped to that front choke and no one noticed?

2 3 different tries @ a kimora and no go? Plus he GAVE him that sweep.

and now as I type this he is ground/pound and they aren't stopping? Please.
I thoyght it was a tap but he gave the thumbs up sign.

[smiler grogan]

it looks like twato hopped off of Sandy Kane and latched itself onto that dudes ear.

[Epschtein]

the tap was a thumbs up (pretty funny actually), i didnt see anything fishy on the ground just sloppy, and the reason they let the GnP go i think is because even tho thompson's elbows (and to a lesser degree his punches) elbows definitely were hurting kimbo, they dont LOOK like they hurt, they actually look so weak that as long as kimbo is doing anything at all they will let it go.

i dont think any fix was in, i actually thought that was a good stoppage, hard to believe thompson has looked like he has a weak chin before, tonight he looked like he could take a hit from a truck and walk away.

[Epschtein]

lol smiler, yeah in all the years i have been watching MMA i have never seen a worse ear, it seriously could have been ripped off if they let it go. the stoppage was good imo just because thompson was out on his feet and in danger, but i bet they could have legitimately stopped it just because of his ear

[smiler grogan]

how do you do the nonspoiler text thingy?

[Epschtein]

type your post then select the whole thing, then in the toolbar right above the text box hit the sneaky looking eyes picture on the far right and it will wrap spoiler tags around it.

[smiler grogan]

got it.

[Snoogans]

fuck people who didnt watch it live.

[Fallon]

Don't read the thread if the show has already aired.

Gina is so god damn hot and really put a hurting on that other girl. Very nice.

Kimbo was average, but that guys ear was fucking disgusting. Can't they fix that?

[Chigworthy]

This is the first EliteXC I've watched (no Showtime). Do they always have boxing announcers call the fights? Almost as bad as having boxing judges. Still cool to see MMA on network TV.

PS: I didn't want everyone to have to post in spoiler tags. Like I said, I was being a jealous douche. Sorry.

[Grendel_Kahn]

The announcers were truly awful, and Shamrock should know better. Nothing is worse than listening to people who use the wrong terminology. Also, in a professional league no one's style should be listed as "street fighting, brawling, etc" That pulls the sport right back down to where it came from. I'm sure Kimbo's trainers/sparring partners and Bas Ruten are thrilled to see him listed as such.
Not that I'm shilling for UFC here......... but if that was their main event......wow. There is not one guy in the LHW or even WW division that would not destroy Kimbo.

[PhilDeez]

The announcers were truly awful, and Shamrock should know better. Nothing is worse than listening to people who use the wrong terminology. Also, in a professional league no one's style should be listed as "street fighting, brawling, etc" That pulls the sport right back down to where it came from. I'm sure Kimbo's trainers/sparring partners and Bas Ruten are thrilled to see him listed as such.
Not that I'm shilling for UFC here......... but if that was their main event......wow. There is not one guy in the LHW or even WW division that would not destroy Kimbo.

Coming from a standpoint of someone who watched just to see Kimbo, and not someone who has cared at all for MMA before now, I loved the announcers. Gus Johnson, at least, his excitement was awesome - he is great in everything from NCAA basketball to now MMA.
I understand the Kimbo haters, he didn't come up the right way, he does this wrong or that, blah blah blah. However he is bringing in more new fans and exitement from non hard core MMA fans - just what the sport needs to really get mainstream.

[Epschtein]

i expected to hate kimbo after he exploded on MMA messageboards, and of course people started saying how he would obviously "own in mma!", but the guy actually seems really respectful and like he trains hard and wants to really learn the sport. he keeps saying he has a lot to learn and they wont be giving him any ground specialists for quite a while.

i still dont know how thompson didnt end that fight when he had kimbo's arm trapped and was in side control, all he had to do was make 3 of those elbows in a row look like they could have hurt an infant and it would have been stopped.

granted, he is only where he is right now because he is marketable, but i dont blame him for that. hell PRIDE did that all the time, and the UFC does it too, most recently with lesnar.

what is the promoters name? gary shaw? (the heavy guy that is owner/promoter? of eliteXC) god i cant stand him, did you guys see the event where he tried to paw all over gina after she won? she was having none of it lol.

i dont like much about eliteXC's production actually, but im glad there is another big player competing with the UFC. i miss PRIDE. :(

[underdog]

Coming from a standpoint of someone who watched just to see Kimbo, and not someone who has cared at all for MMA before now, I loved the announcers. Gus Johnson, at least, his excitement was awesome - he is great in everything from NCAA basketball to now MMA.

I absolutely agree. I loved Gus Johnson announcing.

Kimbo was average, but that guys ear was fucking disgusting. Can't they fix that?

One of the guys in the fight before the Kimbo fight had a bad ear, or I at least thought it was bad until I saw that awful thing hanging off his head.

[Chigworthy]

When Kimbo pulled Thompson into a guillotine from standing into his guard, one of the announcers called it a "DDT-like maneuver". I looked up DDT to see if it had some place in real wrestling, but no, it was accidently invented by Jake The Snake Roberts in the mid 80's. Good call.

The stoppages were pretty suspect IMO. That Scott Smith thing was a debacle. I wonder if CBS suits were insisting on the refs and doctors being a bit more strict than cable and PPV events. On the other hand, it was suspicious when the fight wasn't called when Thompson was crucifying Kimbo against the fence at the end of the round. Kimbo wasn't doing much of that defending, but then again, he didn't suffer much damage either.

Oh well, it was still fun to watch. Except for Baroni's usual Long Island theatrics.

[Chigworthy]

Anyone watching WEC?

I can't stand when the crowd of drunks starts booing at two very good fighters because there's not enough blood.

[Fallon]

Anyone watching WEC?

I can't stand when the crowd of drunks starts booing at two very good fighters because there's not enough blood.

That shit drives me crazy. God forbid we get a match that lasts more than twenty seconds. Idiots don't care about the sport, just the knockouts.

[Epschtein]

i only saw bits of the fights so far, got stuck on the phone.

godamnit faber you tard, they just showed him with friggin' cornrows... sigh...

[Epschtein]

HOLY SHIT!

what a fight these two are putting on, constantly working, attacking from all angles, on their feet, on the ground, amazing.

fight of the year candidate so far.

edit after the 3rd round - this is over, they arent coming back out imo. either they throw in the towel or its stopped unfortunatley, his eye is fucked and one of those last shots busted his nose or his orbital judging by his reaction.

[Epschtein]

dang, wasnt happy to be right but it was pretty obvious. torres is a monster, he just never stops working.

im kind of rooting for jens here, uriah has a long future ahead of him, jens is getting long in the tooth. most likely jens will be too aggressive and not play the smartest game he could, as he does too often. but his willingness to go out and make every fight entertaining, win or lose, is why jens has so many fans.

[Chigworthy]

Fucking Sacramento hayseeds booing Pulver like some chump.

Yeah the last fight was beautiful, you called the stoppage Epschtein.

[Epschtein]

man pulver is doing a great job of weathering the storm here, uriah is definitely faster but jens is taking his shots, cant take too many tho like he tends to do or he wont be able to keep attacking.

[Chigworthy]

It kind of shows you the WEC's weakness. They have some really great fighters at the top, but also a lot of mediocre fighters. To see Pulver come in here and be the first one to test Faber in a while is great.

[Chigworthy]

Nice throat elbows Faber.

[Epschtein]

yeah he had 3 or 4 throat shots in there.

too young, too fast, conditioning too good.

that is a very typical jens fight against a top guy, where you are yelling at the screen for him to take some shots late in the fight but he has taken so much damage he just doesnt have anything left. he landed some decent shots early but uriah took them no problem.

great fight tho, i think that is just the only way jens knows how to fight.

those last two fights were vastly more entertaining than anything last night imo.

[Ritalin]

Yeah, the WEC card was pretty entertaining. The welterweight fight was fucking kickass, and that Torres just might be my new favorite fighter. In a strange way his style reminds me of Anderson Silva, always looking at strange angles and pushing the action one or two strikes further than most fighters do. It always seems to flow.

The Faber/Pulver fight was pretty good. Faber's kind of a dirty figher: throat shots and at one point he was just allowed to hammerfist Jens 4 or 5 times in a row with no caution.

That said, Faber had way too much game for Pulver, who's on the downside and isn't quick enough to get his strikes off.

I'd like to see Faber fight Sean Sherk. That would be a great fight.

[newport king]

fucking DVR only recorded up to pulver's entrance then cut off cause i guess it ran late. the fight before the main event was worth it though so i couldnt do too much complainng.
it was ridiculous when they both went for the foot hold. i'm sorry i didnt get to see the faber/pulver fight. while i like jens, faber might be my new man crush so i didnt know who to root for in that one.

[underdog]

fucking DVR only recorded up to pulver's entrance then cut off cause i guess it ran late. the fight before the main event was worth it though so i couldnt do too much complainng.
it was ridiculous when they both went for the foot hold. i'm sorry i didnt get to see the faber/pulver fight. while i like jens, faber might be my new man crush so i didnt know who to root for in that one.

Always add at least an hour to live sporting events.

[Ritalin]

What Underdog said, and adding to that, could you imagine watching a card without DVR? It takes them FOREVER between fights. Yesterday the first fight didn't start until 14 minutes into the broadcast.

And those announcers were fucking awful. It must be hard for Faber to fight with Frank Mir sucking his cock at the same time. What a fucking homer.

[Chigworthy]

What Underdog said, and adding to that, could you imagine watching a card without DVR? It takes them FOREVER between fights. Yesterday the first fight didn't start until 14 minutes into the broadcast.

And those announcers were fucking awful. It must be hard for Faber to fight with Frank Mir sucking his cock at the same time. What a fucking homer.

I like Mir as an announcer, but he did seem to be fellating Faber a lot.

[King Imp]

Thoughts on the weekend's events:

Saturday's EliteXC presentation was an absolute joke! Even my wife said they are making it look like the WWE and if this is what they plan on doing it the future, then don't even bother anymore. Have to say I agree. Between the skank cheerleaders and Busta Rhymes and Baroni's ridiculous outfit and entourage, it makes the sport look like a fucking joke.
Speaking of Baroni, I have never liked his guido pompous ass and I love that he got his ass kicked so quickly. He is definitely one of the most overrated fighters that continues to be featured. Undeservingly I may add. Fuck him and fuck that presentation!
As for Kimbo, I was so happy to see him exposed like he was. When I first saw who he was fighting, I said they are clearly feeding him a scrub just to get him over more. Glad Thompson rose to the occassion and made Kimbo look like a fool, even in a loss. I'm sorry, but I don't see crap like this as helpful to the sport. So many truly talented fighters are being overlooked for the sole sake of ratings. Just get it over with and have Kimbo fight Brock Lesnar since that's the direction these idiots seem to want to take this sport.
As for Gina, while she can definitely kick some ass, I'll stick to watching her on American Gladiators. Much hotter on that show.

As for Sunday's WEC event, that certainly didn't disappoint. Especially the two title fights like everyone has mentioned. I personally loved that double ankle lock that Torres and Maeda put on each other. They definitely need to lock up once more and hopefully we'll get a true decision out of it.
Have to say I was surprised by Pulver. Not that he isn't a great fighter, but I didn't see him as having it anymore. After being taken out so easily by Joe Lauzon and then BJ Penn, only to then come back and dominate Cub Swanson who many have said was overrated to begin with, I thought Jens' days were behind him. I predicted a Faber win by submission in the 3rd and thought it was clearly gonna happen after Pulver barely got out of the 2nd round. He definitely showed he's still got what it takes and I, for one, wouldn't mind a rematch.

Now, one fight that was just mentioned for the next WEC card in August is Jamie Varner vs Marcus Hicks. If Varner fights the same way he took out McCullough, this one should be a slugfest. I gotta go with that little powerhouse Hicks in this one though. I love that guy!

[Epschtein]

fuckin' cocksuckers at the UFC put spoilers for tonights event on the front page of the website!

i know i broke my own rule but i figured it was safe to go there to see the full card, bastards...

edit - oh, they actually already aired the event live lol, nevermind. :P

i thought it was just tape delay tonight, didnt realize you could get the ppv live this afternoon.

[Chigworthy]

Anyone watch it? I'm not able to see it tonight. Oh well, there's always tomorrow and the internet.

[Epschtein]

i have only seen the main event, that knee that ended it was nasty, it looked like it came through his back hehe.

i am going to watch the rest later after the celtics game.

[MM2]

i have only seen the main event, that knee that ended it was nasty, it looked like it came through his back hehe.

i am going to watch the rest later after the celtics game.

Very good PPV considering there was really no "true" main event. I was impressed by Alves take down defense, which he will need against GSP or Fitch.

Be prepared to be alittle disappointed in the outcome of the Vera/Werdum fight. This was the fight I was looking forward to most. I'm thinking there might be a rematch here since the HW title is locked up with the next Ulitmate Figther anyways.

Bisping was impressive, but I wonder if he would have been that active if it was Leben's left hand? The best I've seen Bisping though. I hope we get a Leben/Bisping match up in the fall.

Swick looked good too, he still looks so skinny at 170, but he looked alot more like the fighter he was at 185.

The Marquardt/Leites fight was crazy, I'm not sure this fight solved anything. Nate was hurt in that first round and I'd give Laties the first round, Nate won the last two rounds but would he have been able to man handle Leties without having connected with that illegal knee? These guys should probably rematch too.

Overall it was a very good PPV, Liddell/Shogun would have been great, but still a great card.

[King Imp]

If you didn't watch the latest Ultimate Fighter, skip this until you do.


Okay, with that said, I am worried for Jesse's future now. Did you guys see that preview for next week? Apparently someone has a little too much "fun" and it appears they kick out the window of a limo while Dana is watching it on tape. He then says this person is out of the finals and the UFC for good and that they need to find a replacement. No offense to Jesse, but he doesn't seem all that bright and I could see him pulling an assinine stunt like this considering how out of control he's been in the house lately.

Now, it could just be leading us to believe it's one of the fighters on the show and it ends up being someone who was scheduled to fight on the Finale show. I just really hope it's not Jesse, or either of the other two fighters in the next semi-final.

[Ritalin]

If it was going to be anyone else on the card acting the fool, it would be Kendall Grove. That kid is a punk, and I was so happy to see him get knocked the fuck out in his last fight. I can't believe they put him on the finale show. He doesn't deserve it, and I hope Evan Tanner isn't too shot to beat his ass.

[Crippler]

...I am worried for Jesse's future now. Did you guys see that preview for next week? Apparently someone has a little too much "fun" and it appears they kick out the window of a limo while Dana is watching it on tape. He then says this person is out of the finals and the UFC for good and that they need to find a replacement. No offense to Jesse, but he doesn't seem all that bright and I could see him pulling an asinine stunt like this considering how out of control he's been in the house lately.

Jesse is definitely the first person you would think of when watching that clip (which is exactly why I'm going to assume it's not him)...the guy comes off as being dumber than dogshit. Have you seen anyone on TV mangle more clichés than this kid? You know, other than our president.

I'm prepared for the culprit to be completely anticlimactic (someone on the undercard that no one really cares about), but even without the added intrigue I'll be riveted to the screen for the last episode because I'm really looking forward to the Amir/CB fight. Other than listening to Jesse speak, I've really enjoyed this season of TUF.

[Chigworthy]

Have you seen anyone on TV mangle more clichés than this kid?

Eastside Dave.

[Crippler]

Decent show tonight by Elite XC. If you intend to watch a replay & don't want it spoiled, STOP READING NOW, but I'm not going to bother with spoiler text because it was "free" on Showtime, etc.









Anyway, Diaz vs. Corbrey was the only fight to go past the first round. It was a good fight & Corbrey might be a decent boxer with how fast his hands are & how well he moves his head, but he won't beat any top MMA talent by just bobbing & weaving his way through a fight. Good takedown defense, but once on the ground he was fucked, especially with a Gracie fighter. Diaz, though, continues to amaze me with how slow, yet fluid, he is with his strikes. He almost looks like he's shadow boxing during the real fight...but he gets the job done between the cumulative effect of his strikes & the mastery of his BJJ once he gets a takedown.

The biggest negative on the night, however, was the fact that the Diaz brothers are just fucking jerk-off punks. I really like watching them fight, but once the fight is over they need to shut the fuck up & go back to training. They come in the cage after a title fight they weren't involved in (& I'm sure Elite XC sent them in there to get some heat for the eventual Nick/Noons rematch) & little Nate is flipping off KJ Noons & his Dad. And what kind of assclown is Mr Noons...his son is enjoying a title defense in his home town & dear old dad goes after a 23 year old punk throwing haymakers?

If I didn't know any better (& I pray this isn't the case because it would make Elite XC look even more Bush League than their first CBS show) I would think the whole thing was given the WWE treatment. And I would hate for MMA, even if it is one of the lesser brands, to get any of the WWE stink on it & make MMA in general take a step back in legitimacy.

[Fallon]

Yeah, the show was pretty good and it had a happy ending with the dude defending his title in his howntown, then they WWE'd it up and it was fucking awful. That was faker than anything boxing has done at a press conference.

Jerkoff move by Elite.

[MM2]

Decent show tonight by Elite XC. If you intend to watch a replay & don't want it spoiled, STOP READING NOW, but I'm not going to bother with spoiler text because it was "free" on Showtime, etc.









Anyway, Diaz vs. Corbrey was the only fight to go past the first round. It was a good fight & Corbrey might be a decent boxer with how fast his hands are & how well he moves his head, but he won't beat any top MMA talent by just bobbing & weaving his way through a fight. Good takedown defense, but once on the ground he was fucked, especially with a Gracie fighter. Diaz, though, continues to amaze me with how slow, yet fluid, he is with his strikes. He almost looks like he's shadow boxing during the real fight...but he gets the job done between the cumulative effect of his strikes & the mastery of his BJJ once he gets a takedown.

The biggest negative on the night, however, was the fact that the Diaz brothers are just fucking jerk-off punks. I really like watching them fight, but once the fight is over they need to shut the fuck up & go back to training. They come in the cage after a title fight they weren't involved in (& I'm sure Elite XC sent them in there to get some heat for the eventual Nick/Noons rematch) & little Nate is flipping off KJ Noons & his Dad. And what kind of assclown is Mr Noons...his son is enjoying a title defense in his home town & dear old dad goes after a 23 year old punk throwing haymakers?

If I didn't know any better (& I pray this isn't the case because it would make Elite XC look even more Bush League than their first CBS show) I would think the whole thing was given the WWE treatment. And I would hate for MMA, even if it is one of the lesser brands, to get any of the WWE stink on it & make MMA in general take a step back in legitimacy.

I wouldn't call it the WWE treatment. Gary Shaw is an ex-boxing promoter, so he is a very good hype man, ala Don King. I found it more like a boxing press conference type thing. Happens all the time in boxing. The fights are all I care about, and I think there was enough heat behind a rematch between Diaz and Noons already, but this is exactly what you do to try and get some mainstream heat behind the fight. Which I hope is on the July CBS show.

Everyone needs to get used to this if they are going to watch Elite XC. I have no problem with it, but I'm in the minority. Just enjoy the fights, Elite XC has some world class fighters and a show on network TV. You just have to understand that Elite XC almost needs to pull these kind of hype stunts to gain more audience. I will watch no matter what, but it takes more to get the casual fan or non-fan interested.

How about that karate kid kick that Dave Herman pulled off? That was craziness!

[MM2]

UFC Fight Night 14 Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin at Light Heavyweight!

So Dana has put together a nice free show to go up against Afflictions PPV with Fedor vs. Tim Sylvia. What does everyone think about this?

I was definitely going to buy the PPV to see the Fedor/Sylvia fight and there are some pretty good undercard fights as well with Arlovski/Rothwell, Barnett/Rizzo, Matt Linland is fighting and so is Babalu. Belfort/Martin is on the untelevised portion. Its a pretty stacked card and I do want to see it, but with a free show featuring Anderson Silva and Brandon Vera, can I pay for it?

I think its a low move by Dana to throw this fight night together so last minute just to try and take away PPV buys from Affliction, but if I end up not buying the PPV then I guess it worked. On me at least.

[King Imp]

That Silva-Irvin fight is killer and even better that it's free. Normally I would pick Silva to destroy anyone, but has he ever faced anyone who can hit as hard as Irvin does? I'm asking because I never followed Pride.

Granted it's hard to hit Silva, but if one does connect it may be lights out.

[MM2]

That Silva-Irvin fight is killer and even better that it's free. Normally I would pick Silva to destroy anyone, but has he ever faced anyone who can hit as hard as Irvin does? I'm asking because I never followed Pride.

Granted it's hard to hit Silva, but if one does connect it may be lights out.

Chris Leben? Dan Henderson? You can even say Rich Franklin has KO power. Silva has a stone chin, and can take a punch. Go watch his fight against Jorge Rivera, if I remember correctly he asks for and receives like 3 or 4 power shots in a row with out trying to defend them and just smiles at Rivera and goes in for the attack.

Irvin has KO power, but I mean he hasn't really KO'd any impressive fighters. He KO'd Houston Alexander, but we all know he has a weak chin. Keith Jardine almost finished Houston before being KO'd.

Taking into account that anyone can be KO'd, I still don't buy Irvin having more than a 1% chance to KO Silva.

A better fight would have been Brandon Vera vs. Anderson Silva. That's a scary fight for both guys. Makes no sense for the UFC to risk either guy in that kind of fight, but man would that be a fight I'd like to see.

I'm interested in this Irvin fight just to see how Silva looks at 205, I would be very surprised if Irvin does well.

[PhishHead]

Chris Leben? Dan Henderson? You can even say Rich Franklin has KO power. Silva has a stone chin, and can take a punch. Go watch his fight against Jorge Rivera, if I remember correctly he asks for and receives like 3 or 4 power shots in a row with out trying to defend them and just smiles at Rivera and goes in for the attack.

Irvin has KO power, but I mean he hasn't really KO'd any impressive fighters. He KO'd Houston Alexander, but we all know he has a weak chin. Keith Jardine almost finished Houston before being KO'd.

Taking into account that anyone can be KO'd, I still don't buy Irvin having more than a 1% chance to KO Silva.

A better fight would have been Brandon Vera vs. Anderson Silva. That's a scary fight for both guys. Makes no sense for the UFC to risk either guy in that kind of fight, but man would that be a fight I'd like to see.

I'm interested in this Irvin fight just to see how Silva looks at 205, I would be very surprised if Irvin does well.

Silva does have a good chin but is also awesome at evading strikes. When he has lost, it has been by submission.

I think Silva wins but who knows, it is a win win for either fighter really. Irvin if he wins will shoot up the rankings, if Irvin loses eh he was supposed to because its Silva. If Silva wins, awesome for UFC one more proof he is unbeatable and moving towards Silva v Liddell. If Silva loses that is still fine because he will still dominate 185 and still has the belt.

I wish they would have made the Vera/Wanderli fight like they were going to but Wandy backed down because not enough time to prepared, or maybe he had an injury.

I am quite glad UFC put together this card actually. I do not think it is a low blow at all, it is a good business move. Remember this is all a business for Dana. It would be like saying it is a bad move for Coke to come out with diet coke when pepsi just came out with diet pepsi. You have to be able to go up against the competition and I am sure that the majority of the people who will be watching the UFC on Spike that night will have no idea at all that the affliction ppv is even going on because they are casual fans that only know about the UFC.

btw last night on TUF was probably one of the best episodes in the past 7 seasons. The fight between CB/Tim and CB/Amir was great and I think CB got exposed alot. He has great wrestling no one doubted that, but chin and stomach look weak and his cardio was crap.

[Ritalin]

Phish, I completely agree about yesterday's episode. Holy shit is Jesse Taylor a yahoo, yet I still felt bad for him because he made such a bad fucking decision because he's so stupid.

The thing I noticed about CB is that he doesn't seem to be much of a FIGHTER. He's got a great set of tools, but he was exposed by two guys who are fighers in temperament. He should have been able to beat either one of those two guys fairly easily, but he doesn't have any ground and pound skills. I couldn't believe he let Amir catch him in that armbar, and I think it scared him from taking Tim down. On the feet, I thought CB's hands looked faster and he had more sting on his punches, but it's like he doesn't have the instincts to use those tools within the flow of a fight. If Tim had any power at all, it would have been lights out for CB not from one shot, but the sheer accumulation of clean punches Tim was able to throw.

I think CB has a long way to go, and I think Amir is going to give him all he can handle because I think he's going to get better at stuffing takedowns and he'll have a better plan.

[PhishHead]

Phish, I completely agree about yesterday's episode. Holy shit is Jesse Taylor a yahoo, yet I still felt bad for him because he made such a bad fucking decision because he's so stupid.

The thing I noticed about CB is that he doesn't seem to be much of a FIGHTER. He's got a great set of tools, but he was exposed by two guys who are fighers in temperament. He should have been able to beat either one of those two guys fairly easily, but he doesn't have any ground and pound skills. I couldn't believe he let Amir catch him in that armbar, and I think it scared him from taking Tim down. On the feet, I thought CB's hands looked faster and he had more sting on his punches, but it's like he doesn't have the instincts to use those tools within the flow of a fight. If Tim had any power at all, it would have been lights out for CB not from one shot, but the sheer accumulation of clean punches Tim was able to throw.

I think CB has a long way to go, and I think Amir is going to give him all he can handle because I think he's going to get better at stuffing takedowns and he'll have a better plan.

Yea I am not sure what it is about CB. When the list of fighters for this season was first released I picked him to win, only say him fight once before and saw a bunch of his wrestling at ASU. But he is missing a certain instinct that all fighters need/have. Tim definitely rocked CB a few times as did Amir but it seemed each time one of them rocked him they rushed in and got placed on their back. Amir will only improve in my opinion. CB I am not sure he could improve drastically and be AMAZING but it will all depend on his team and dedication.

Amir has just come out of nowhere and has been amazing, i loved when Amir looked at the camera after beating CB and goes ""If you lined up the four guys I fought here -- Steve Byrnes, Gerald Harris, Matt Brown and CB Dollaway and said you have six weeks to fight and beat all of them, I would look at you and say, ‘No.'" Was just a great line. Amir will be a great addition to the UFC for both fighting and marketable.

[King Imp]

Even if Amir loses, as long as he puts in a good showing I think Dana needs to give him the money and contract as well. He's already proven he can beat CB even though CB did have that fight won up until that sweet armbar.

I personally was pulling for a CB-Jesse final before the incident happened because I thought they both matched up well against each other. Seeing CB in his last two fights, I'm glad it didn't happen. He did not look like the dominant fighter that he was in his previous fights. He looked lost when he couldn't impose his will like he had in the past. Sure, he had no problem taking down Amir and Tim, but once there he couldn't do anything.

As for Jesse, he will still be in the UFC. Dana himself said call me in a couple of months. You know regardless of what he did, Dana will not let him get away. I liked Jesse and wanted to see him win it all, but he definitely has the mentality of a child.

Anyway, here's to hoping that Amir wins and there is no question as to who the true winner of the season is. Oh, and I hope Evan Tanner knocks Kendall Grove the fuck out. Never liked Grove.

[Crippler]

As for Jesse, he will still be in the UFC. Dana himself said call me in a couple of months. You know regardless of what he did, Dana will not let him get away. I liked Jesse and wanted to see him win it all, but he definitely has the mentality of a child.

I hope, for Jesse's sake, he does some soul searching & waits to talk to Dana in a few months...but I can see Elite XC or some smaller organization calling him almost immediately & offering to put him on TV right away with a fight. And, because Jesse has shown himself to be as smart as a wheelbarrow full of hammers, he takes the lesser organization's fight, and win or lose, fades into obscurity. Instead of waiting for his shot at redemption in the UFC & maybe making something of his fight career.

~~~~~~~~~~

As for the finale, great show, great season. Maybe my favorite season so far. For some reason, even though I never remembered to watch the first night of airing, I downloaded every episode of this season & really enjoyed it. I don't know if I'm just getting more into MMA in general or if they just really did a good job of picking the fighters for this season, but I don't think there was a bad fight.

Looking forward to the finale this Saturday.

[Chigworthy]

I hope, for Jesse's sake, he does some soul searching & waits to talk to Dana in a few months...but I can see Elite XC or some smaller organization calling him almost immediately & offering to put him on TV right away with a fight. And, because Jesse has shown himself to be as smart as a wheelbarrow full of hammers, he takes the lesser organization's fight, and win or lose, fades into obscurity. Instead of waiting for his shot at redemption in the UFC & maybe making something of his fight career.

~~~~~~~~~~

As for the finale, great show, great season. Maybe my favorite season so far. For some reason, even though I never remembered to watch the first night of airing, I downloaded every episode of this season & really enjoyed it. I don't know if I'm just getting more into MMA in general or if they just really did a good job of picking the fighters for this season, but I don't think there was a bad fight.

Looking forward to the finale this Saturday.

I noticed that Jesse was all draped up in Tapout gear, so I'm guessing those guys already sponsored him. What that means, I don't know.

I have a feeling Credeur will be on the undercard for the finale against one of the other fighters who didn't make it. It seemed like Dana liked him. Did it seem like his posture completely changed in the fight against CB? He seemed really stiff in the spine, yet he was striking a lot more than previously.

I really liked the first season, so far more than the others, but they are all pretty good. It seemed like the fighters (as a whole) of the first season were a little better than later seasons. It seemed like there was less alcohol and more training back then, too.

[PhishHead]

I noticed that Jesse was all draped up in Tapout gear, so I'm guessing those guys already sponsored him. What that means, I don't know.

I have a feeling Credeur will be on the undercard for the finale against one of the other fighters who didn't make it. It seemed like Dana liked him. Did it seem like his posture completely changed in the fight against CB? He seemed really stiff in the spine, yet he was striking a lot more than previously.

I really liked the first season, so far more than the others, but they are all pretty good. It seemed like the fighters (as a whole) of the first season were a little better than later seasons. It seemed like there was less alcohol and more training back then, too.

Tim is fighting Cale Yarbrough
Matt Brown v Matt Arroyo
Riddle v Rivera