UFC/MMA Discussion

[King Imp]

I will be so pissed if that fat fuck Roy Nelson wins the TUF contract tonight.

Seriously, is anyone impressed by what he has done so far? I sure as hell am not.
All he does is fall on people and then lay on them and because he's such a blubbering heavy fuck, no one can get him off of them. Then all he does is throw soft punches, but because they are in bunches the ref stops the fight.

I was really hoping Marcus Jones could have made the finals because then he at least night have had the strength to get that lard ass off of him. I fully expect Nelson to once again lay on Schaub tonight and get a ref stoppage.

[Chigworthy]

I will be so pissed if that fat fuck Roy Nelson wins the TUF contract tonight.

Seriously, is anyone impressed by what he has done so far? I sure as hell am not.
All he does is fall on people and then lay on them and because he's such a blubbering heavy fuck, no one can get him off of them. Then all he does is throw soft punches, but because they are in bunches the ref stops the fight.

I was really hoping Marcus Jones could have made the finals because then he at least night have had the strength to get that lard ass off of him. I fully expect Nelson to once again lay on Schaub tonight and get a ref stoppage.

He did well in the IFL, but the IFL stunk.

[razorboy]

I'll be rooting for my boy Marcus Jones tonight.

[cogsdoc]

Yeah I really hope Marcus dominates that moron. And I too expect fatboy to lay on top of Schaub for a victory. Hard to imagine any of these heavyweights competing with the likes of Velazquez or Mir.

Must admit I am curious about the Houston Alexander / Kimbo fight.

[Marc with a c]

mitrione just said he had retard strength.

[TripleSkeet]

I hate Mitrione but the kid throws heavy punches. I think Big Baby is done as far as MMA goes.

The Kimbo fight was so boring. Alexander is a fucking pussy. Your supposed to be the MMA star going against the backyard brawler and all you do is run laps around the ring? The fucking guy had to run 15 laps the first round alone. Boring fight but Kimbo got the win he deserved.

Jones got fucked because of a stray elbow. I know its illegal but he was crushing Hamill. Shouldnt have been DQed.

I fucking hate Big Country but he laid Schaubb the fuck out. I cant wait to see him get in the ring with a Mir or Big Nog and get fucking murdered.

[Dirtbag]

lhttp://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/05/association-of-boxing-commissions-amend-unified-rules-of-mma/“12 to 6″ downward elbow strikes are now legal, as long as they are not to illegal areas of the opponent.

How was what Jones did illegal? He got fucked in the ass and hopefully Greg Jackson can get something done to at the very least turn this into a no contest, or maybe even just rule the stoppage as what it was: Matt Hammill getting the everliving shit kicked out of him.

Kimbo/Alexander was terrible for probably 13 of 15 minutes, but that slam was probably the best one I've seen since Randleman/Fedor, and somehow Alexander shook it off just the same way. Houston is an idiot for fighting that way. This was one of those fights you don't just fight to win. If he'd have KTFO'd Kimbo, great, but if that shitty decision had gone his way he really would have just pissed Dana off.

I think Nelson will do just fine in the UFC. Lesnar will kill him, but he can hang with probably anyone else. He's got a 50/50 shot at least against Mir, who I still think is vastly overrated. Nogueira should win the fight, but he's never killed anybody and Big Country could possibly win a decision via belly smother.

[Chigworthy]

lhttp://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/07/05/association-of-boxing-commissions-amend-unified-rules-of-mma/

How was what Jones did illegal?

It says that its up to each state's athletic commission to adopt those rules.

[Ritalin]

Nelson is a personality in a very boring drab weight class. He has some skills and he'll be fine. Champion? No.

Marcus Jones is done. He has no striking and no chin.

Jones is really tough. Hamill is overrated.

Kimbo belongs in TNA with Hogan, brother.

(aside: Is Anderson Silva ever going to fight again? WTF?)

[TripleSkeet]

(aside: Is Anderson Silva ever going to fight again? WTF?)

He was supposed to fight in February but apparently his elbow hasnt fully healed from surgery yet.

[King Imp]

Guess I have to eat my words a bit. I still think Roy Nelson is crap compared to the heavyweights of the UFC, but that was a nice punch and at least he didn't just lay on another opponent for the win.

So, who does everyone have in the upcoming Penn vs Sanchez fight? Personally, I think Penn is definitely the better fighter, but I don't think he'll be able to handle Sanchez' onslaught. Penn claims his stamina isn't an issue anymore as he went 4 rounds with Florian, but Florian didn't push him like Sanchez will. I see Diego putting constant pressure on B.J. and by the 3rd or 4th round he'll be spent and Sanchez will end it.

[cogsdoc]

Damn I agree with all of you, so I don't have much else to add. I am super excited by "Bones" Jones, I think he has a great future in the sport, and a good attitude to go with the talent.

I too have Sanchez wearing out Penn. Should be pretty even for much of the fight, but in the end I got Sanchez.

[midwestjeff]

Henderson signed with Strikeforce.

[cogsdoc]

for more details on the strikeforce signing:
http://insidefights.com/2009/12/07/dan-henderson-signs-with-strikeforce/

[midwestjeff]

I thought I covered it.

[Ritalin]

I got Penn in that fight. It's a good one, for sure, and I like Diego, but I'm
sticking with BJ until someone beats him

[weekapaugjz]

I got Penn in that fight. It's a good one, for sure, and I like Diego, but I'm
sticking with BJ until someone beats him

i can't wait for this fight. i hope diego kicks his ass.

[Dirtbag]

I'm really pissed at Spike for putting their retarded Video Game Awards on opposite UFC 107. Not only are half the people who would waste their time watching that dreck gonna be watching the fights anyway, but it screws us out of prelims. I was really looking forward to watching Edgar Garcia knock out DeMarcus Johnson.

[Fallon]

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[TripleSkeet]

Wow.

A press release Thursday confirmed that TNA wrestler and former ECW Champion Bobby Lashley has signed a multi-year deal with Strikeforce, the number two mixed martial arts promotion in America.

Lashley will make his debut against a presently-undetermined opponent on January 30 at Florida's BankAtlantic Center. The fight will air as part of a live broadcast on Showtime.

"I'm looking forward to fighting for Strikeforce and challenging myself by taking on some of the top heavyweights in MMA," said Lashley.

Though Strikeforce's roster is viewed as considerably thinner than that of mixed martial arts leader UFC, the company does have contractual rights to Fedor Emelianenko, who many consider to be the world's top heavyweight fighter.

[Dirtbag]

Fedor by armbar R1.

[Willmore]

Not really news. Lashley has been doing MMA for a while now - he has 4 pro fights already. It was just a matter of time before he signed for one of the big promotions. Good for Strikeforce, this might do to a lesser degree what Lesnar did for UFC.

[TripleSkeet]

Not really news. Lashley has been doing MMA for a while now - he has 4 pro fights already. It was just a matter of time before he signed for one of the big promotions. Good for Strikeforce, this might do to a lesser degree what Lesnar did for UFC.

Um...yea we all knew he was doing MMA, but the fact he did sign with one of the big 2 kind of IS news. I really wanted to see him in UFC but this will do. I like him. I hope he does well.

[King Imp]

So, aside from the main event, the other fight I'm very interested in is the Florian-Guida matchup. Who do you all have in that one?

I love Guida and want to see him pull this out, but I think he'll fall short on this one. I definitely see him taking it to Florian and manhandling him around the cage, but he'll eventually make a mistake and Florian will catch and submit him. Probably in the 3rd.

[Dirtbag]

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If this guy learns how to fight he's going to be scary. He's got worse form and is even more of a spaz than Brock was in his first couple fights.

[newport king]

goodnight guida.

[weekapaugjz]

I want to see a fucking knockout tonight. I'm glad florian choked out guida.

[newport king]

frank mir submits kongo in 1.

[newport king]

BJ puts on a clinic against nightmare. Not even close. it was like watching a man fight a child. finally stopped him in 5 after giving him a cut that looked like he got hit in the head with an axe. i think i was able to see diego's brain.

[weekapaugjz]

I've never seen a gash that big.

[cogsdoc]

I've never seen a gash that big.

To be fair, you probably haven't seen your mom naked.

Ok I already feel bad about that.

Decent night of fights. Ken Flo, Mir, and Penn all looked outstanding.

[Fallon]

To be fair, you probably haven't seen your mom naked.

Ok I already feel bad about that.

Decent night of fights. Ken Flo, Mir, and Penn all looked outstanding.
Good one!

[Chigworthy]

Good one!

Hitting softballs ain't that hard.

[Fallon]

Hitting softballs ain't that hard.

What about returning the ball to the pitcher? That's kinda hard.

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[Crippler]

UFC 111 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/17173/georges-st-pierre-vs-dan-hardy-official-for-ufc-111-on-march-27-in-new-jersey.mma) to take place at "The Rock" in lovely & scenic Newark, NJ...likely to be headlined by a GSP title defense...SWEET!

[Willmore]

I've never seen a gash that big.

They happen.

example:

http://www.the-octadome.com/wp-content/gallery/mma-injury/marvin-eastman-ufc-43-1.jpg

[Fallon]

They happen.

example:

http://www.the-octadome.com/wp-content/gallery/mma-injury/marvin-eastman-ufc-43-1.jpg

It's doing the people's eyebrow.

[weekapaugjz]

They happen.

example:

http://www.the-octadome.com/wp-content/gallery/mma-injury/marvin-eastman-ufc-43-1.jpg

I know they happen. Just saying I've never personally seen a fight with one that big.

[Fallon]

Terrible news everybody!!

Logan Stanton and Natasha Wicks relieved of UFC ring girl duties (http://www.aroundtheoctagon.com/?p=2952)

[weekapaugjz]

Terrible news everybody!!

Logan Stanton and Natasha Wicks relieved of UFC ring girl duties (http://www.aroundtheoctagon.com/?p=2952)

as long as ariani is still around, i'm happy.

[Slumbag]

as long as ariani is still around, i'm happy.

No one will ever top Rachelle Leah
http://www.mmafightgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/fhm-rachelle-leah.jpg

[Willmore]

Mariusz Pudzianowski, 5 time world's strongest man is going into MMA.

His debut bout.

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[TripleSkeet]

Mariusz Pudzianowski, 5 time world's strongest man is going into MMA.

His debut bout.

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That was one of the funniest fights Ive ever seen. He was actually kicking that little guy halfway across the ring. I couldnt stop laughing. :lol::lol::lol:

[Ritalin]

Mariusz Pudzianowski, 5 time world's strongest man is going into MMA.

His debut bout.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yoy803wZjKE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yoy803wZjKE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

So, how do they test for steroids in Poland?

[Willmore]

So, how do they test for steroids in Poland?


It's like software installation - you have to tick a box on a form before they let you fight.

[NateCantDance]

I love watching Maruisz in WSM events, and I'm sure he'll make an amazing fighter. I just don't really like watching dudes like he and Lesnar who are 98% physical dominance and 2% fighting skill. Sure they are dominant fighters and you can't argue with results, but it's just not entertaining. It's kind of like seeing a trained fighter/athlete like GSP or Anderson Silva get taken apart by a silverback gorilla.

[Dirtbag]

Did you really put Lesnar in the same category as this guy? I guess an NCAA championship isn't being a "trained fighter." And being a silverback gorilla has really worked out well for Bob Sapp all these years hasn't it? It's not 1995. Being just a monster will only take you so far anymore.

[NateCantDance]

Did you really put Lesnar in the same category as this guy? I guess an NCAA championship isn't being a "trained fighter." And being a silverback gorilla has really worked out well for Bob Sapp all these years hasn't it? It's not 1995. Being just a monster will only take you so far anymore.

To a certain extent I do. Yeah, he is an elite wrestler so I'll give him credit for that. But that also proves my point. Wrestlers make for shitty MMA fights until they learn stand up skills and/or BJJ. Fighters like Rashad, Koshcheck, etc have crossed over. Guys who do nothing besides take you down, hold you down, and hammer fist your face into the ground (Lesnar) are boring as fuck to watch.

Bottom line is that when winning comes down solely to just being bigger and stronger than the other guy it's not that interesting. Legitimate? Sure. But interesting? Not to me.

[Ritalin]

To a certain extent I do. Yeah, he is an elite wrestler so I'll give him credit for that. But that also proves my point. Wrestlers make for shitty MMA fights until they learn stand up skills and/or BJJ. Fighters like Rashad, Koshcheck, etc have crossed over. Guys who do nothing besides take you down, hold you down, and hammer fist your face into the ground (Lesnar) are boring as fuck to watch.

Bottom line is that when winning comes down solely to just being bigger and stronger than the other guy it's not that interesting. Legitimate? Sure. But interesting? Not to me.

Agreed. I always hated it when they would let Hughes just lay all over a guy, doing nothing to improve his position.

Who knows about this Polish guy. Has he really been hit in the face yet? Sometimes these big guys - hello Marcus Davis - have no chin.

Maybe this guy is just a Glass Josef.

[Dirtbag]

To a certain extent I do. Yeah, he is an elite wrestler so I'll give him credit for that. But that also proves my point. Wrestlers make for shitty MMA fights until they learn stand up skills and/or BJJ. Fighters like Rashad, Koshcheck, etc have crossed over. Guys who do nothing besides take you down, hold you down, and hammer fist your face into the ground (Lesnar) are boring as fuck to watch.

Bottom line is that when winning comes down solely to just being bigger and stronger than the other guy it's not that interesting. Legitimate? Sure. But interesting? Not to me.

There's a big difference between monsters and wrestlers. Pudzianowski, Sapp, Hong-Man Choi, etc are monsters but you'll never see them lay on top of guys to win. Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk, and for the last two years GSP aren't that much, if any, bigger than whoever they're fighting yet all you see them do is go for takedowns and LnP their way to victory.

[NateCantDance]

There's a big difference between monsters and wrestlers. Pudzianowski, Sapp, Hong-Man Choi, etc are monsters but you'll never see them lay on top of guys to win. Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk, and for the last two years GSP aren't that much, if any, bigger than whoever they're fighting yet all you see them do is go for takedowns and LnP their way to victory.

:lol: What exactly is your position here? I'm saying what kind of fighters I like to watch, and you're arguing with me! Who the fuck are you to tell me what entertains me? :lol:

I don't like watching the putzes that you mentioned either. It's extremely doubtful that Pudz can wrestle much at all, and clearly Lesnar can, but his whole fight strategy appears to be "HULK SMASH", which isn't all that different from Lesnars. Lesnar just takes the time to squish you first. :thumbdown:

Edit: Except for GSP. I like GSP.

[TripleSkeet]

To a certain extent I do. Yeah, he is an elite wrestler so I'll give him credit for that. But that also proves my point. Wrestlers make for shitty MMA fights until they learn stand up skills and/or BJJ. Fighters like Rashad, Koshcheck, etc have crossed over. Guys who do nothing besides take you down, hold you down, and hammer fist your face into the ground (Lesnar) are boring as fuck to watch.

Bottom line is that when winning comes down solely to just being bigger and stronger than the other guy it's not that interesting. Legitimate? Sure. But interesting? Not to me.

Lesnar has not had one boring UFC fight yet.

[Dirtbag]

:lol: What exactly is your position here? I'm saying what kind of fighters I like to watch, and you're arguing with me! Who the fuck are you to tell me what entertains me? :lol:

I don't like watching the putzes that you mentioned either. It's extremely doubtful that Pudz can wrestle much at all, and clearly Lesnar can, but his whole fight strategy appears to be "HULK SMASH", which isn't all that different from Lesnars. Lesnar just takes the time to squish you first. :thumbdown:

Edit: Except for GSP. I like GSP.

So the last time you watched Lesnar fight was the first fight with Mir. Got it. You seem like the type who'd better off watching K-1 anyway. Ground fighting rules. And while I'd obviously rather watch someone like Shinya Aoki or Demian Maia, even watching superior wrestlers completely dominate guys who are supposed to be world class athletes and fighters has its appeal.

[NateCantDance]

Lesnar has not had one boring UFC fight yet.

In your opinion. Would you like me to argue that you opinion is wrong with you? I don't even know how a person would begin to do that! :lol:

So the last time you watched Lesnar fight was the first fight with Mir. Got it. You seem like the type who'd better off watching K-1 anyway. Ground fighting rules. And while I'd obviously rather watch someone like Shinya Aoki or Demian Maia, even watching superior wrestlers completely dominate guys who are supposed to be world class athletes and fighters has its appeal.

You make too many assumption. I think Demian Maia is amazing, and I do appreciate good BJJ. I just don't appreciate guys like Hughes, Sherk, Matt Hamill, Tito, and Lesnar. And you're wrong about what fights I've seen. I've also seen him lay on Heath and Mir the second time, and I saw him get bitched by Randy until he saved himself by landing an overhand right.

And again, wtf is your motivation here? I'm not arguing who the better fighter are, I'm arguing about what entertains me. If I told you that I like chocolate ice cream better than vanilla would you be busting my balls about that too?

[TripleSkeet]

In your opinion. Would you like me to argue that you opinion is wrong with you? I don't even know how a person would begin to do that! :lol:


Youre right its my opinion, and most other MMA fans too. Where last week I saw Kimbo Slice fight Houston Alexander. The whole fight was stand up and it was the most boring fight ever. The crowd booed them for 3 entire rounds.

I've also seen him lay on Heath and Mir the second time, and I saw him get bitched by Randy until he saved himself by landing an overhand right.


Now this isnt opinion, this is just blind analysis. And its not even close to the truth. Lesnar hit Herring with a standup punch that broke his orbital bone and sent him flying backward over his head across the entire ring....before pounding the shit out of him.

Mir got massacred both times, and won because Lesnar let his ankle get caught up in the first fight. Mirs face in both fights looked like Apollo Creeds after Rocky 1.

And Couture got beat from beginning to end. I really like Couture, and hes one of the best in the game, and even he said he was just overmatched in the fight.

You cant bitch about weight because they have weight classes. If these guys arent good enough to fight at that weight then they need to drop some lbs. and go to a lighter division. Its that simple. But you cant act like Lesnar is some big fat ass with no skill that just falls on everybody and wins. You cant win alot of fights like that in the UFC. You have to know what youre doing too. Roy Nelsons gonna find that out real soon.

[NateCantDance]

I strongly disagree that Couture was behind in that fight. But I'd agree with you that all of Lesnar's opponents are overmatched. But not because he's amazing at BJJ or because he's a great boxer/kickboxer. More because he's the fucking Juggernaut and will run you the fuck over and then pound your fucking face in. Which he does every time he fights. I'm not saying that it's not effective, I'm just saying I don't like to watch it.

And again, I've only said what fighters and fighting styles that I prefer to watch. For some reason this has pissed both you and dirtbag off and has baited you both into telling me what my opinion should be. :lol:

[TripleSkeet]

I strongly disagree that Couture was behind in that fight. But I'd agree with you that all of Lesnar's opponents are overmatched. But not because he's amazing at BJJ or because he's a great boxer/kickboxer. More because he's the fucking Juggernaut and will run you the fuck over and then pound your fucking face in. Which he does every time he fights. I'm not saying that it's not effective, I'm just saying I don't like to watch it.

And again, I've only said what fighters and fighting styles that I prefer to watch. For some reason this has pissed both you and dirtbag off and has baited you both into telling me what my opinion should be. :lol:

Im not pissed off. And Im not telling you what your opinion should be either. It doesnt bother me if you find ground and pound boring. Even though its kinda funny because thats what BJJ was founded on. That and submissions. If I wanted to watch JUST stand up Id watch that dying breed of a sport they call boxing.

I just had issue with your analysis on some of Lesnars fights that I just think you were off on. It would be like me saying "Brett Favre had a terrible game", you telling me "he went for 30 for 35 for 300 yards and 3 tds and that was good", and me telling you "thats your opinion, mine is he sucked."

[NateCantDance]

Im not pissed off. And Im not telling you what your opinion should be either. It doesnt bother me if you find ground and pound boring. Even though its kinda funny because thats what BJJ was founded on. That and submissions. If I wanted to watch JUST stand up Id watch that dying breed of a sport they call boxing.

Yeah, we're probably talking past each other a bit here. I don't dislike seeing a guy get taken down and pounded out. I admit that it takes skill and is highly effective.

I just had issue with your analysis on some of Lesnars fights that I just think you were off on. It would be like me saying "Brett Favre had a terrible game", you telling me "he went for 30 for 35 for 300 yards and 3 tds and that was good", and me telling you "thats your opinion, mine is he sucked."

Fair enough. To use your analogy, I'm just saying that I like watching a more balanced run/pass attack than that. I don't like to see a guy throw it 35 times. What confuses me is why you interpret this to mean that I think a guy sucks and isn't dominant at what he does.

[TripleSkeet]

Fair enough. To use your analogy, I'm just saying that I like watching a more balanced run/pass attack than that. I don't like to see a guy throw it 35 times. What confuses me is why you interpret this to mean that I think a guy sucks and isn't dominant at what he does.

Im dont think that, I just think it sounded like you were saying hes strong and heavy and you give him credit because he still wins but you dont seem to think he has any kind of mma ability. I couldve just taken it wrong though.

[Ritalin]

Strikeforce! Lindland never had a chance.

[Ritalin]

I hate that Thompson. He's a stroke. I hate a guy that grins everytime he gets rocked.

[Ritalin]

I have to give that Thompson credit. He went for it. Tough kid. I was wrong.

[Willmore]

The Smith - Le fight was awesome.

[Ritalin]

The Smith - Le fight was awesome.

I think Cung Le would get killed in UFC if all he's got are those kicks, and it looks like that's all he's got.

Ask Crocop how that works in UFC.

[danlaroe]

who's getting the ppv tonight. evans first fight back since machida dismantled him..how do you think he'll do?

[Crippler]

I don't know if this is more what I think or just what I want, but I'm going with Silva tonight. Haven't seen the tale of the tape yet, but Silva is listed at 6'1" to Rashad's 5'11" & assuming that there isn't some weird reach advantage for Rashad I think Silva will be able to keep him within range & land some bombs.

[TripleSkeet]

Im rooting for Evans. Ever since this years TUF Ive become a fan.

[Crippler]

Man, I wish that main event had been a 5 rounder. Silva had NOTHING for 2+ rounds...then started to find the right distance but let Rashad off the cage & didn't have the time to finish. Bummer.

Well, at least we know we'll get Rashad/Rampage now. Not that I believe for a minute it wasn't going to happen if Rashad lost like Dana was saying this week. That fight will sell therefore Dana will book it.

[TripleSkeet]

Man, I wish that main event had been a 5 rounder. Silva had NOTHING for 2+ rounds...then started to find the right distance but let Rashad off the cage & didn't have the time to finish. Bummer.

Well, at least we know we'll get Rashad/Rampage now. Not that I believe for a minute it wasn't going to happen if Rashad lost like Dana was saying this week. That fight will sell therefore Dana will book it.

Yea no shit. I dont understand why White tries to posture like hes taking a stand. Was Rampage really supposed to turn down an A-Team movie to fight Evans??? That wouldve been fucking retarded. I dont know how the movie will do, but theres always a chance it will make him. Either way the UFC couldve just postponed the fight instead of doing it the way they did.

The way Rocky 3 made Hogan. Vince McMahon Sr. didnt want Hogan to do the movie and he had to quit the WWWF in order to go. Smartest move he ever made.

And what the fuck was with Silva showboating? You just got your ass kicked for 2 rounds, you get in some nice punches, have the guy on the ropes, and decide to start dancing and putting your chin out there??? Congrats asshole, you just gave the fight away.

[Fallon]

Silva is retarded. The showboating did get Evans to get pissed and throw a few bad punch attempts, but then when Evans was in trouble Silva kept doing it.

Idiot.

[Chigworthy]

Silva is retarded. The showboating did get Evans to get pissed and throw a few bad punch attempts, but then when Evans was in trouble Silva kept doing it.

Idiot.

Must be all the piss-drinkin'.

[Willmore]

What a boring card.

I'm glad I didn't pay money to see it.

[Willmore]

Let's see Lesnar go into ice cold water:

http://mixfight.ru/storage/images/10248.jpg

[Chigworthy]

Let's see Lesnar go into ice cold water:

http://mixfight.ru/storage/images/10248.jpg

Where's his sweater?

[cougarjake13]

Where's his sweater?



he shaved it off

[Dirtbag]

There's a video of Lesnar doing the whole ice bath from the WWE days. Its not all that uncommon for professional athletes.

[Chigworthy]

Crazyhorse Bennett got arrested again (assault with a piece of metal on a training partner).

[phil packer]

UFC 109 is this weekend. theres some good match-ups but i think Couture vs. Coleman is gonna be boring. couture's last fight with brandon vera was terrible. if they stalled like that on the ground everyone would be screaming to stand them up.

[Dirtbag]

Its nights like tonight that make me wonder just how the game has passed by Matt Hughes so badly. Nate Marquardt is probably just under BJ Penn as far as well-rounded fighters go and he just got totally worked by a guy with nothing but wrestling. Guys like Sonnen and Velasquez, and to a lesser extent St. Pierre and Lesnar, are surviving and thriving with little more than wrestling, even if it is at a very high level. There are obvious holes in their games, but the wrestling is so good that other than pulling a Serra there's nothing they can do about it.

[Willmore]

Its nights like tonight that make me wonder just how the game has passed by Matt Hughes so badly. Nate Marquardt is probably just under BJ Penn as far as well-rounded fighters go and he just got totally worked by a guy with nothing but wrestling. Guys like Sonnen and Velasquez, and to a lesser extent St. Pierre and Lesnar, are surviving and thriving with little more than wrestling, even if it is at a very high level. There are obvious holes in their games, but the wrestling is so good that other than pulling a Serra there's nothing they can do about it.

Hughes is a traditional "technique" wrestler. Sonnen is more along the lines of Sean Sherk and Lesnar - "power" muscle mass wrestler.

That does appear to be the future of the sport. Not the best prospect in my opinion. I prefer the classic wrestling use - to avoid takedowns against jiu-jitsu experts and just stand-up and brawl. That doesn't happen as often now.

[Joe Pietaro]

But guys like Lesnar, even with their MMA shortcomings, are a big draw and people love to see them fight. As I write this, I'm watching the Lesnar-Herring fight on UFC Unleashed, and the crowd goes nuts when Brock thrown a shot, even when it looks less technical than someone like Hughes would throw.

[Dirtbag]

Lesnar/Herring was in Minneapolis. Brock is more-or-less the hometown boy there. Crowd wasn't particularly in his corner for Couture or even Mir.

[TripleSkeet]

Most diehard MMA fans hate Lesnar because hes a "fake" wrestler that has come in and is kicking the shit out of all their "real" fighters.

But hes learned alot from pro wrestling that those guys will never understand. Like taking that hate and using it to go full blown heel on the UFC. See as much they hate Lesnar, hes the biggest draw they have. Bigger then Couture. Bigger then GSP. Why? People buy his fights either because they want to see him massacre somebody or because they want to see him get his ass kicked. Either way hes the top draw for the company.

Maybe when some of the top real fighters develop a personality they will have the drawing power and make the money of a guy like Lesnar, Toti Ortiz, Ken Shamrock, etc.

[Joe Pietaro]

That's the one thing that MMA has yet to accomplish - having popular fighters that are well known by more than the core fans. Lesnar is the closest thing to that right now.

In the team sports, boxing and even NASCAR & pro wrestling, the names and personalities take center stage to the casual fan and outsider. The UFC is going in the right direction and trying to market their marquee guys in that fashion. But for someone who has never seen a match, they probably cannot name even one fighter. For this sport to really succeed, it needs to develop the individual.

[Fallon]

That's the one thing that MMA has yet to accomplish - having popular fighters that are well known by more than the core fans. Lesnar is the closest thing to that right now.

In the team sports, boxing and even NASCAR & pro wrestling, the names and personalities take center stage to the casual fan and outsider. The UFC is going in the right direction and trying to market their marquee guys in that fashion. But for someone who has never seen a match, they probably cannot name even one fighter. For this sport to really succeed, it needs to develop the individual.

Bitches know Chuck Liddell from dancing now.

[Chigworthy]

Most diehard MMA fans hate Lesnar because hes a "fake" wrestler that has come in and is kicking the shit out of all their "real" fighters.

But hes learned alot from pro wrestling that those guys will never understand. Like taking that hate and using it to go full blown heel on the UFC. See as much they hate Lesnar, hes the biggest draw they have. Bigger then Couture. Bigger then GSP. Why? People buy his fights either because they want to see him massacre somebody or because they want to see him get his ass kicked. Either way hes the top draw for the company.

Maybe when some of the top real fighters develop a personality they will have the drawing power and make the money of a guy like Lesnar, Toti Ortiz, Ken Shamrock, etc.

A) Lesnar is not a "fake" wrestler anymore; he's proven himself to be a "real" fighter.
B) Most diehard MMA fans are probably not interested in the full blown heel act. UFC's resurgence that started with TUF 1 has always been about the real character of the fighters, not some scripted act. The growing fanbase latched onto the real drama of Couture/Liddell, two fighters who liked and respected each other and didn't need to hate each other to go all out in their 2nd fight, as well as the finale between Griffin/Bonnar, two rookies who liked and respected each other and went all out. But one thing that came with the new popularity for the UFC was a quick turnover for champions and fan favorites. Couture is kind of the oddball.
C) While Lesnar is huge, and has all kinds of unique appeal, do you think the UFC would be floundering in obscurity if he wasn't involved?
D) The initial skepticism and "hatred" of Lesnar has dwindled as mma fans have seen what a legitimate force he has become. But you can't really blame the majority of fans having no faith in someone who was famous in fakey land. When he proved he wasn't just a choreography and gymnastics expert, respect grew.

[Crippler]

Can't wait to see what happens in the Cain/Nog fight. I expect that one to be very entertaining. And I pray Wandy has enough left in the tank to put Bisping to sleep. I would love to see "The Count" on the business end of another KO of the Year candidate this year.

[TripleSkeet]

A) Lesnar is not a "fake" wrestler anymore; he's proven himself to be a "real" fighter.
B) Most diehard MMA fans are probably not interested in the full blown heel act. UFC's resurgence that started with TUF 1 has always been about the real character of the fighters, not some scripted act. The growing fanbase latched onto the real drama of Couture/Liddell, two fighters who liked and respected each other and didn't need to hate each other to go all out in their 2nd fight, as well as the finale between Griffin/Bonnar, two rookies who liked and respected each other and went all out. But one thing that came with the new popularity for the UFC was a quick turnover for champions and fan favorites. Couture is kind of the oddball.
C) While Lesnar is huge, and has all kinds of unique appeal, do you think the UFC would be floundering in obscurity if he wasn't involved?
D) The initial skepticism and "hatred" of Lesnar has dwindled as mma fans have seen what a legitimate force he has become. But you can't really blame the majority of fans having no faith in someone who was famous in fakey land. When he proved he wasn't just a choreography and gymnastics expert, respect grew.


First of all, Lesnar was NEVER a "fake" fighter. The guy was a 2 time NCAA champion before he ever signed wih Vince McMahon. Thats what people like me tried to explain to the diehard MMA guys that didnt follow wrestling and thought he was just some juiced up bodybuilder. But most didnt want to hear it. That always annoyed me.

Second, most MMA guys are starting to learn that wresting is just as dangerous a martial art in MMA as jiu jitsu. For the longest time it was looked down on wrestlers because they felt it was inferior to kickboxing and BJJ but more and more wrestlers are starting to dominate in the cage now.

My whole deal with the "heel" thing isnt generating fake hate, its learning that in the sport of fighting, you dont have to be the nice guy. Alot of these guys do and say whatever they can to get the fans to cheer them, even if its not what they really want to say. Lesnar has learned he can be the dick, have everyone hate him, and make more money doing it. He learned that from wrestling.

You know who else took that trick from wrestling and applied it to his craft? Muhammed Ali. Instead of toning down his brash and cocky attitude so the people would like him, he went the other way and went over the top so most of America would hate him. And they did, at least in the beginning. And thats why his fights drew so much money. Its something that Joe Frazier never understood and still hasnt forgiven him for. Lesnar has decided not to jump through hoops or give a fuck about winning over the fans. Instead hell just mow through their heavyweights and watch the fans drop tons of cash in hopes of seeing him get beat.

Oh and I never said the UFC needed him to survive, they do fine without him, but he definitely helped bring new fans to the sport.

[Ritalin]

just read the recap of last night's card on sherdog. A couple of points:

Once Lesnar gets back to top shape, the rest of the heavyweights are fighting for second, in my opinion. Cain beating Nog is no surprise to me.

George Sotiropoulos beating Stevenson is no upset. I've been impressed with him for a while. He's business-like, and Stevenson has now officially become nothing more than a gatekeeper.

I always liked Bader, but Jardine is finished. There's a picture of him face planted after a strike on sherdog, and I feel bad for him. I think he's taken so many shots that he goes out with one tap on the button.

[Dirtbag]

Nogueira has been through too many wars to continue standing in front of people and getting punched in the face. Couture and Velasquez were the two guys in the UFC I thought it could still work against, and Cain quite definitively proved me wrong last night. Velasquez loses to Lesnar or Mir and is 50/50 against Carwin.

As happy as seeing Wanderlei win made me, I'm annoyed that he didn't do what he did in the last 20 seconds of the fight in the first 20 seconds. I knew if he put pressure on Bisping that's exactly what would happened and Bisping doesn't exactly have world renowned KO power.

Sotiropoulos is a bad, bad dude. BJ still kills him. It's depressing how good BJ is at 155.

Hopefully whoever's in charge of these things in Australia can get Bonnar/Soszynski changed to a NC. Not that Bonnar is in any danger of being released, but getting a L on an accidental illegal blow leading to a doctors' stoppage sucks. Just ask Fedor.

[whorehay]

Frank Mir: I hope Brock Lesnar dies in the ring

now this is how to sell tickets:

UFC star Frank Mir has unleashed a sickening rant about former WWE world champion Brock Lesnar — saying he wants to kill him.
Lesnar lost on his UFC debut to Mir, but later defeated the Vegas-born star to win the company's heavyweight world championship.

But ahead of talk about a third possible clash, Mir says he HATES Lesnar and wants him to DIE.

During a radio interview with former WCW commentator Mark Madden, he stormed: "I want to fight Brock Lesnar. I hate who he is as a person.

"I want to break his neck in the ring.
"I want him to be the first person that dies to Octagon-related injuries."


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/2863386/Frank-Mir-I-hope-Brock-Lesnar-dies-in-the-ring.html

[Crippler]

Frank need to sit down with Ronnie B for a little rasslin' lesson. If you want to point out what a douche Brock is & turn him into the bad guy, that's fine. He's perfectly happy playing the heel. But then Frank has to play the babyface role. And you really can't do that by wishing death on your opponent.

I never was a big fan of Mir, but if this bullshit manages to turn Brock into a sympathetic character in the world of MMA, Mir goes straight to the top of my most hated list. Ok, maybe Mir only goes to #2, behind Brock. Fucking idiot.

[King Imp]

Frank Mir: I hope Brock Lesnar dies in the ring

now this is how to sell tickets:

UFC star Frank Mir has unleashed a sickening rant about former WWE world champion Brock Lesnar — saying he wants to kill him.
Lesnar lost on his UFC debut to Mir, but later defeated the Vegas-born star to win the company's heavyweight world championship.

But ahead of talk about a third possible clash, Mir says he HATES Lesnar and wants him to DIE.

During a radio interview with former WCW commentator Mark Madden, he stormed: "I want to fight Brock Lesnar. I hate who he is as a person.

"I want to break his neck in the ring.
"I want him to be the first person that dies to Octagon-related injuries."


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/2863386/Frank-Mir-I-hope-Brock-Lesnar-dies-in-the-ring.html

Apparently that was too much and even crossed the line in Dana White's eyes.

"Be a good boy and apologize now Frank." (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=78759)

[whorehay]

“I would like to apologize to Brock Lesnar, his family, the UFC and the UFC fans for my stupid remarks,” said Mir. “I respect Brock, all the other fighters, and the sport of mixed martial arts. I’m sorry that I stepped out of line.”

Frank got neutered.

[Dirtbag]

Mariusz Pudzianowski vs. Tim Sylvia set for April 23 in Boston (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/2/27/1329384/mariusz-pudzianowski-vs-tim-sylvia). I haven't been this excited for a non-UFC (excluding Fedor) fight since Pride went under. It'll be a disaster but it should be fun to watch.

[Ritalin]

The collective pool of heavyweights is a mess. I haven't seen a decent heavyweight fight in a long time. What happened to gonzaga? I thought he was class. Why don't we see Gonzaga/Mir?

[Gutter]

The collective pool of heavyweights is a mess. I haven't seen a decent heavyweight fight in a long time. What happened to gonzaga? I thought he was class. Why don't we see Gonzaga/Mir?

i'm sorry.....but what? when did you post this? there have been some incredible fights in the heavyweight division that have happened very recently.

[TripleSkeet]

This made me laugh...

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=10886&zoneid=4

[Gutter]

This made me laugh...

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=10886&zoneid=4

it looks like Couture vs. Tonney is all but signed.

[Serpico1103]

This made me laugh...

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=10886&zoneid=4

Tim Sylvia, former UFC heavyweight champ, got KTFO by Mercer in 9 seconds.
Boxers can transition to MMA if they respect the sport.

[Chigworthy]

Tim Sylvia, former UFC heavyweight champ, got KTFO by Mercer in 9 seconds.
Boxers can transition to MMA if they respect the sport.

There's always been a large question mark over Sylvia's head. I think his fight with Cabbage Carrera was the last time he really won with authority and without any doubt of luck or steroids.

[Ritalin]

Yeah, talking about steroids and the juice, I see that GSP is headlining a card soon. I'm
down on him from the BJ Penn fight when his corner flat out cheated - look up the YouTube if you've never seen it - and
I just put two and two together with this Canadian doctor and GSP. I think he's juicing for sure.

And shit. He wouldn't be the only one, I guess.

[Chigworthy]

Yeah, talking about steroids and the juice, I see that GSP is headlining a card soon. I'm
down on him from the BJ Penn fight when his corner flat out cheated - look up the YouTube if you've never seen it - and
I just put two and two together with this Canadian doctor and GSP. I think he's juicing for sure.

And shit. He wouldn't be the only one, I guess.

I don't know about "this Canadian doctor and GSP", but that vaseline shit is bullshit. It should be a no contest.

[Dirtbag]

Tim Sylvia, former UFC heavyweight champ, got KTFO by Mercer in 9 seconds.
Boxers can transition to MMA if they respect the sport.

Anybody who comes in 50 pounds overweight and decides to stand in front of Ray Mercer is going to get knocked the fuck out. Even Sylvia's mental issues aside, B-level MMA striking is going to have problems against what was at one time A-level boxers. I'm cringing just thinking about what a guy like Josh Barnett or Gabriel Gonzaga would do to guys like Mercer or Toney.

[Chigworthy]

Anybody who comes in 50 pounds overweight and decides to stand in front of Ray Mercer is going to get knocked the fuck out. Even Sylvia's mental issues aside, B-level MMA striking is going to have problems against what was at one time A-level boxers. I'm cringing just thinking about what a guy like Josh Barnett or Gabriel Gonzaga would do to guys like Mercer or Toney.

Exactly. Sylvia's Champion days are long gone, and they were fairly tainted anyway.

[Serpico1103]

Exactly. Sylvia's Champion days are long gone, and they were fairly tainted anyway.
I understand that sylvia is not the best mma has to offer, but he is.a legitimate fighter with a lot of top level experience. He underestimated mercer's speed and power. With the lightweight gloves a boxer's power is devastating. I want to see anderson sylvia box.

[smiler grogan]

Exactly. Sylvia's Champion days are long gone, and they were fairly tainted anyway.

I got into MMA after Sylvia was champ. What was tainted (hee hee) about his reign as champ?

[Chigworthy]

I got into MMA after Sylvia was champ. What was tainted (hee hee) about his reign as champ?

Positive steroid test after winning the belt, and lucky wins.

[smiler grogan]

thank you.

[Gutter]

I got into MMA after Sylvia was champ. What was tainted (hee hee) about his reign as champ?

he didn't have a tainted championship....it just seems like there are two posters contributing to this forum who have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to MMA, let alone UFC in general. Saying that GSP is probably on steroids because he has a canadian doctor and that his last fight with BJ should have been a no contest proves that there is a level of ignorance on display here.

As for Sylvia, when he was champ, there were a lot of fans saying that he became a boring fighter because he would press his opponents against the cage and keep them there while landing punches that were meant more to score points than they were to do damage in hopes of gaining a KO or TKO. This brought Couture out of retirement and he went on to pummel Sylvia and win an incredible 5 round Decision.

Also, if you think Sylvia's KO of Cabbage was his last legit "win with authority" than you must have ignored the next four years of his career. here's the rundown AFTER the Cabbage fight (i've left out the decision wins of which there are 5)

KO punches vs. Ricco Rodriguez
KO punches vs Gan McGee
TKO punches vs Wes Simms (in Superbrawl 38)
TKO punches vs Mike Block (in IFC)
KO headkick vs Tra Telligman
TKO punches vs. Andrei Arlovski (won the UFC title and defended it twice before loosing it to Couture)

and recently: TKO punches vs Jason Riley (in Adrenaline MMA)

yea......he really started to suck after that Cabbage win.

[Gutter]

Positive steroid test after winning the belt, and lucky wins.

check your facts dude.....he tested positive after defending the belt....not winning it. this was also back in 2003 when testing practices in UFC weren't as stringent. for a while now UFC has tested every single one of the fighters that compete on a card the night of, usually immediately following the fights and i believe the last positive test for steroids happened in 2007.

[Chigworthy]

he didn't have a tainted championship....it just seems like there are two posters contributing to this forum who have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to MMA, let alone UFC in general. Saying that GSP is probably on steroids because he has a canadian doctor and that his last fight with BJ should have been a no contest proves that there is a level of ignorance on display here.

As for Sylvia, when he was champ, there were a lot of fans saying that he became a boring fighter because he would press his opponents against the cage and keep them there while landing punches that were meant more to score points than they were to do damage in hopes of gaining a KO or TKO. This brought Couture out of retirement and he went on to pummel Sylvia and win an incredible 5 round Decision.

Also, if you think Sylvia's KO of Cabbage was his last legit "win with authority" than you must have ignored the next four years of his career. here's the rundown AFTER the Cabbage fight (i've left out the decision wins of which there are 5)

KO punches vs. Ricco Rodriguez
KO punches vs Gan McGee
TKO punches vs Wes Simms (in Superbrawl 38)
TKO punches vs Mike Block (in IFC)
KO headkick vs Tra Telligman
TKO punches vs. Andrei Arlovski (won the UFC title and defended it twice before loosing it to Couture)

and recently: TKO punches vs Jason Riley (in Adrenaline MMA)

yea......he really started to suck after that Cabbage win.

Awww! You're so cute when you get angry. Plus, you've put me in my place. I am a terrible fan.

[Gutter]

Awww! You're so cute when you get angry. Plus, you've put me in my place. I am a terrible fan.

who said anything about being angry? i was merely pointing out that you're making some exaggerated claims about a sport you seem to have little knowledge of.

[Chigworthy]

check your facts dude.....he tested positive after defending the belt....not winning it. this was also back in 2003 when testing practices in UFC weren't as stringent. for a while now UFC has tested every single one of the fighters that compete on a card the night of, usually immediately following the fights and i believe the last positive test for steroids happened in 2007.

A) It was after winning the belt. You can't defend without having won in the first place. Don't get all hyper-technical message-board flamewar crazy; I was just pointing out that while he held the belt, he was using steroids.
B) If you're trying to say that because the testing wasn't as stringent, this was somehow acceptable for him to use steroids, why was he suspended and fined?
C) Calm down.

[Chigworthy]

who said anything about being angry? i was merely pointing out that you're making some exaggerated claims about a sport you seem to have little knowledge of.

Look, if you were a fan before TUF, and feel the need to defend your personal and emotional investment against fans that are newer than you, you'll probably come off a bit of a douche.

[Gutter]

A) It was after winning the belt. You can't defend without having won in the first place. Don't get all hyper-technical message-board flamewar crazy; I was just pointing out that while he held the belt, he was using steroids.
B) If you're trying to say that because the testing wasn't as stringent, this was somehow acceptable for him to use steroids, why was he suspended and fined?
C) Calm down.


hahaha i think its funny that you think i'm all up in arms because i have a contradicting post to what you've said. how does any of what i've responded with indicate that i'm furious on the other end of the computer?

and ok fine....maybe that was a bit technical, but when it comes to this sport it carries a lot of value if you're going to talk about it that you're accurate in what you're saying. and i'm not saying that it was acceptable for him to use steroids because the testing wasn't as stringent. I'm saying that it was a long time ago that it happened and it seems that you and Ritalin who also posted seem to think that because Sylvia tested positive years ago that this is still the "norm" in the sport, when that is not the case. fighters are tested for all sorts of things now on a regular basis and non-medical suspensions are handed out as necessary. its exactly why the Josh Barnett deal fell through. He was supposed to make a return to the UFC recently, but tested positive after his last win in another organization....so no go.

[Gutter]

Look, if you were a fan before TUF, and feel the need to defend your personal and emotional investment against fans that are newer than you, you'll probably come off a bit of a douche.


and in the same respect people that are new to the sport and think that every fighter is just a roided up meat head with no education also comes off as a douche.

[Chigworthy]

hahaha i think its funny that you think i'm all up in arms because i have a contradicting post to what you've said. how does any of what i've responded with indicate that i'm furious on the other end of the computer?

and ok fine....maybe that was a bit technical, but when it comes to this sport it carries a lot of value if you're going to talk about it that you're accurate in what you're saying. and i'm not saying that it was acceptable for him to use steroids because the testing wasn't as stringent. I'm saying that it was a long time ago that it happened and it seems that you and Ritalin who also posted seem to think that because Sylvia tested positive years ago that this is still the "norm" in the sport, when that is not the case. fighters are tested for all sorts of things now on a regular basis and non-medical suspensions are handed out as necessary. its exactly why the Josh Barnett deal fell through. He was supposed to make a return to the UFC recently, but tested positive after his last win in another organization....so no go.

A)You come of angry and self-righteous because instead of just arguing your point, you posted stupid things to the effect that I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to MMA.
B) I have no idea why you're under the impression that I think that "because Sylvia tested positive years ago that this is still the "norm" in the sport". You're just wildly speculating and failing miserably.

[Serpico1103]

Fight fight!

[Chigworthy]

Fight fight!

That's over in the Global Warming thread.

[Gutter]

A)You come of angry and self-righteous because instead of just arguing your point, you posted stupid things to the effect that I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to MMA.
B) I have no idea why you're under the impression that I think that "because Sylvia tested positive years ago that this is still the "norm" in the sport". You're just wildly speculating and failing miserably.


posting a record of KO and TKO victories to contradict someones claim that a fighter didn't have any authoritative wins after a certain point in his career is stupid? I'm not sure i follow that logic.

[Chigworthy]

posting a record of KO and TKO victories to contradict someones claim that a fighter didn't have any authoritative wins after a certain point in his career is stupid? I'm not sure i follow that logic.

Stating that someone has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to MMA and UFC because they didn't sherdog a paritcular fighter's career is stupid. You've gotten all wrapped around the axle because I posted something about his fight with Cabbage being the last decent win. If you were reasonable, you could have argued that I was wrong about Sylvia's record and possibly won, but instead you made wild claims that I have no idea about the entire sport, and then went on to fabricate that I believe that all MMA fighters are juiceheads, which is completely baseless and stupid.

[Gutter]

Stating that someone has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to MMA and UFC because they didn't sherdog a paritcular fighter's career is stupid. You've gotten all wrapped around the axle because I posted something about his fight with Cabbage being the last decent win. If you were reasonable, you could have argued that I was wrong about Sylvia's record and possibly won, but instead you made wild claims that I have no idea about the entire sport, and then went on to fabricate that I believe that all MMA fighters are juiceheads, which is completely baseless and stupid.

wrapped around the axle huh? thats a new one. anyway, if you know enough about the sport to know who Cabbage is than i find it hard to believe that you wouldn't know that Sylvia had many more devastating wins in the UFC after that fight.

i'm sorry if you're put on the defensive by my saying that you have no idea what you're talking about. But when you make the statements you did about sylvia, and about GSP and the greasing incident, and that the fight Penn GSP fight should have been a no contest, claiming that a fighter was still "lucky" after earning 11 more wins on his record, that a fighters 6 TKO/KO wins are also "luck"......honestly, what am i supposed to think?

this isn't stuff you need to look up either....i'll admit i had to get the exact win list from somewhere, but its general knowledge that Sylvia's DEBUT in the UFC was the Cabbage fight you mentioned. its also general knowledge that after that, despite his steroid set back, that he became one of the most popular fighters and legit heavyweight champs in the organization.

also, i said it "seems" that you believe UFC fighters are all juiceheads because at this point with their current record of clean tests in recent years, if you're going to bring it up still, than i don't think its that much of a stretch to be under the impression that you assume the problem is rampant in the top mma organizations.

[StanUpshaw]

check your facts dude.....he tested positive after defending the belt....not winning it. this was also back in 2003 when testing practices in UFC weren't as stringent. for a while now UFC has tested every single one of the fighters that compete on a card the night of, usually immediately following the fights and i believe the last positive test for steroids happened in 2007.

Pretty sure Leben got popped not too long ago.

[Chigworthy]

also, i said it "seems" that you believe UFC fighters are all juiceheads because at this point with their current record of clean tests in recent years, if you're going to bring it up still, than i don't think its that much of a stretch to be under the impression that you assume the problem is rampant in the top mma organizations.

Where do you get this from?

[Chigworthy]

Pretty sure Leben got popped not too long ago.

You obviously think every single MMA fighter uses steroids all day long.

[StanUpshaw]

Not every, but lots.

The tests are a fucking joke. Getting caught just means you're an idiot.

[Serpico1103]

Where do you get this from?
I am sure many are using performance enhancing drugs. the tests are limited. They test for steriods in the mr. Olympia contest. Not all of them use, but a "healthy" percentage of the shredded puffed up fighters experiment.

[Chigworthy]

i'm sorry if you're put on the defensive by my saying that you have no idea what you're talking about. But when you make the statements you did...about GSP and the greasing incident, and that the fight Penn GSP fight should have been a no contest.....honestly, what am i supposed to think?



Saying that a fighter being illegally greased should be a no contest means that I don't know anything about MMA? Please explain how that works.

[Gutter]

Saying that a fighter being illegally greased should be a no contest means that I don't know anything about MMA? Please explain how that works.

Because Penn clearly got destroyed in that fight from beginning to end.

[Gutter]

Pretty sure Leben got popped not too long ago.

right right....it was 2008. still they've had a pretty clean record with that stuff for a while now as i'm pretty sure Leben was the last one to test positive in the UFC.

[Chigworthy]

Because Penn clearly got destroyed in that fight from beginning to end.

That doesn't matter if there was vaseline on GSP's body, which is a violation of the rules, regardless of other factors. I thought you would know that.

[Serpico1103]

Because Penn clearly got destroyed in that fight from beginning to end.
So you can cheat just make sure you win? I know dana white thought gsp was getting in trouble. Don't know if the state comission got involved.

[Chigworthy]

So you can cheat just make sure you win? I know dana white thought gsp was getting in trouble. Don't know if the state comission got involved.

Actually, Penn's camp asked for the fight to be ruled a no contest, and many MMA analysts agreed. Not because it was intentional on GSP's part, or that it obviously effected the outcome, but because it is against the rules and when you have people betting on a fight and there is any question, it is not good for the winner, the loser, the fans, or the bettors. But I guess they all don't know what they're talking about when it comes to MMA or the UFC.

[TripleSkeet]

I am sure many are using performance enhancing drugs. the tests are limited. They test for steriods in the mr. Olympia contest. Not all of them use, but a "healthy" percentage of the shredded puffed up fighters experiment.

Its a joke. If they test right before or after every fight that gives the fighters enough time to do a 3 month cycle, and have a month to get them out of their system before the test. At least. Personally I dont care and think steroids should be legal. If someone wants to juice they are the ones that have to live with the consequences.

[Serpico1103]

Its a joke. If they test right before or after every fight that gives the fighters enough time to do a 3 month cycle, and have a month to get them out of their system before the test. At least. Personally I dont care and think steroids should be legal. If someone wants to juice they are the ones that have to live with the consequences.
Testing is done just to appease the sanctioning bodies and hypocritical fans/writers. The only reason testing should be done is to help protect the fighters from themselves. If they start dropping like ex-wrestlers it hurts the sport.
They want to punish bonds for juicing but he was hitting juiced up pitchers, mlb screwed the fans and players, not, bonds.

[Gutter]

That doesn't matter if there was vaseline on GSP's body, which is a violation of the rules, regardless of other factors. I thought you would know that.


i do know that......my point is that gsp totally outclassed Penn in that fight and grease or not, the outcome would not have been affected. the commission was involved and no wrong doing was discovered. yes, his cornerman "touched" GSP after applying vaseline to his face but he did not wipe or apply anything to any area other than his face. he did not make the motions with his hands that would be necessary to actually apply anything to any other parts of his body either.

you may be tempted to say that the commission had some other motives because of GSP's popularity and it played a factor in their decision and all that.....but still, its irrelevant. your opinion of that incident is just that.....an opinion. our discussion started because of your comment regarding Sylvia which is where i based my original comment.

[Gutter]

Testing is done just to appease the sanctioning bodies and hypocritical fans/writers. The only reason testing should be done is to help protect the fighters from themselves. If they start dropping like ex-wrestlers it hurts the sport.
They want to punish bonds for juicing but he was hitting juiced up pitchers, mlb screwed the fans and players, not, bonds.


so far, its been shown that the retired MMA fighters are fairing much better than retired boxers and their track record is a billion times better than that of professional wrestling. look at Liddell......that dudes been dropped a number of times now by KO and he's doing fine.....Coleman and Pulver are the same way. liddell may not be retired just yet, but he's getting there. Hell look at Couture....dudes what.....46? he's in better shape than he was when he started. its pretty impressive and i think UFC knows that as they get older as an organization, one thing they will have an emphasis on is taking care of these guys after the octagon days.

[Serpico1103]

so far, its been shown that the retired MMA fighters are fairing much better than retired boxers and their track record is a billion times better than that of professional wrestling.
I agree and I hope it continues. But because couture looks good doesn't mean his liver and kidneys also look good. I think roids and gh can be used safely but because of their illegality there is little solid research.

[Gutter]

I agree and I hope it continues. But because couture looks good doesn't mean his liver and kidneys also look good. I think roids and gh can be used safely but because of their illegality there is little solid research.

yea, we're going to have to wait another number of years before we find out. i think coleman and couture will be the first litmus tests of health after a career in mma.

[StanUpshaw]

I wish they'd employ two divisions in MMA.

One that's basically like old Pancrase and one that's basically old PRIDE.

The first would have strict drug testing, no closed fists or elbows to the head... maybe not the rope breaks.

The other wouldn't test at all, allows soccer kicks, knees, stomps, all the shit that made PRIDE great.

I think the PED issue is inescapable. We might as well make the best of it. Let the guys who want to take the risk reap the rewards, but let's also have an option for the guys who want to compete, but not have their brains turned into jelly and their hearts explode.

[Chigworthy]

i do know that......my point is that gsp totally outclassed Penn in that fight and grease or not, the outcome would not have been affected. the commission was involved and no wrong doing was discovered. yes, his cornerman "touched" GSP after applying vaseline to his face but he did not wipe or apply anything to any area other than his face. he did not make the motions with his hands that would be necessary to actually apply anything to any other parts of his body either.

you may be tempted to say that the commission had some other motives because of GSP's popularity and it played a factor in their decision and all that.....but still, its irrelevant. your opinion of that incident is just that.....an opinion. our discussion started because of your comment regarding Sylvia which is where i based my original comment.

No, your hamhanded attempt at attacking me was based on my comments about Sylvia, my comment that GSP Penn should have been a no contest, and some wild fabrication that I believe every MMA fighter uses steroids. You might have blown it, because the time limit for your to edit you posts has probably expired.

[Gutter]

No, your hamhanded attempt at attacking me was based on my comments about Sylvia, my comment that GSP Penn should have been a no contest, and some wild fabrication that I believe every MMA fighter uses steroids. You might have blown it, because the time limit for your to edit you posts has probably expired.

hahahahaha wow....you're actually more delusional than i originally noticed.

i don't see how proving your comment wrong about sylvia with factual evidence is hamhanded.....a few posts ago, that information about his record was stupid...now its hamhanded....interesting......also, every UFC fan worth his salt knows that a little grease in GSP vs. Penn2 had nothing to do with the outcome of the fight and recognizes it as a sad attempt by Penn to save face from the worst beating of his career by crying foul......also as i've already tried to explain, i didn't make a wild fabrication that you believe every mma fighter uses steroids.....i said it "seems" like that is your opinion. if thats not the case than fine.

I've blown it? hahahaha i didn't know i was being graded for this portion of the test. you've made zero attempt to contradict my points other than to call my posts "stupid" and "hamhanded" and that i'm "wrapped around the axle". you've presented zero factual information to reinforce any statement you've made about this sport and your only responses are shallow insults which, for the most part.....i'm confused by.....you never did quite explain that bit about being "wrapped around the axle".

[StanUpshaw]

look at Liddell......that dudes been dropped a number of times now by KO and he's doing fine.....

I'm not sure Liddell is the right guy to hold as an example. He's no Ali, but he's become a slurry motherfucker. Time will tell how bad he gets.

[Gutter]

I'm not sure Liddell is the right guy to hold as an example. He's no Ali, but he's become a slurry motherfucker. Time will tell how bad he gets.

I think he went through a bit of a drinking issue not too long ago. to be honest he's always been kind of mumbly.

[StanUpshaw]

I think he went through a bit of a drinking issue not too long ago. to be honest he's always been kind of mumbly.

There's no way to tell exactly how much effect the punches had, compared to other factors, but there has definitely been a substantial decline

From 2003:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g_o6cfRaG8g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g_o6cfRaG8g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

From 2009:
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MyTPHUbZ5Tk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MyTPHUbZ5Tk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[Gutter]

[QUOTE=StanUpshaw;2683845]There's no way to tell exactly how much effect the punches had, compared to other factors, but there has definitely been a substantial decline

oh sweet find on that 2003 vid after the Overeem fight. i haven't seen that before as good as Liddell vs. Silva wound up being, i wish we could have seen it in 2003 instead of waiting till 2008. MAN DID YOU SEE DANA IN THAT!!!!! hahaha.

cool vids, but just wanted to point out that gettin chuck to talk about a fight he just finished with his adrenaline pumping as opposed to talking about a shaggin wagon he drove back in the 80's......i think you're going to notice a difference if they were 2 days apart. hahaha. still cool tho.

[StanUpshaw]

Yeah, you may be right. I've been looking at my collection and found an interview he did before UFC 19, and he's pretty slow and monotone.

[Gutter]

Yeah, you may be right. I've been looking at my collection and found an interview he did before UFC 19, and he's pretty slow and monotone.

that was hilarious tho when he's like, "well i think he missed and hit me in the dick" hahahahaha

[Chigworthy]

hahahahaha wow....you're actually more delusional than i originally noticed.

i don't see how proving your comment wrong about sylvia with factual evidence is hamhanded.....a few posts ago, that information about his record was stupid...now its hamhanded....interesting......also, every UFC fan worth his salt knows that a little grease in GSP vs. Penn2 had nothing to do with the outcome of the fight and recognizes it as a sad attempt by Penn to save face from the worst beating of his career by crying foul......also as i've already tried to explain, i didn't make a wild fabrication that you believe every mma fighter uses steroids.....i said it "seems" like that is your opinion. if thats not the case than fine.

I've blown it? hahahaha i didn't know i was being graded for this portion of the test. you've made zero attempt to contradict my points other than to call my posts "stupid" and "hamhanded" and that i'm "wrapped around the axle". you've presented zero factual information to reinforce any statement you've made about this sport and your only responses are shallow insults which, for the most part.....i'm confused by.....you never did quite explain that bit about being "wrapped around the axle".

My statement about Sylvia is a matter of opinion. I did present factual information regarding why Penn GSP should have been a no contest. And I never presented factual information to reinforce the fact that most mma fighters are on steroids. I never said anything remotely like that, yet you still think it seems like I believe that, but you can't seem to say where you came up with that delusion.

It's okay for us to disagree on things. As you grow up and mature, you will realize that disagreeing with someone is okay, and doesn't necessitate baseless personal attacks. Just explain why you disagree. Like I said before, if you had just presented your argument for Tim Sylvia, you would have made a good point, instead of coming off like a buffoon.

[Gutter]

My statement about Sylvia is a matter of opinion. I did present factual information regarding why Penn GSP should have been a no contest. And I never presented factual information to reinforce the fact that most mma fighters are on steroids. I never said anything remotely like that, yet you still think it seems like I believe that, but you can't seem to say where you came up with that delusion.

It's okay for us to disagree on things. As you grow up and mature, you will realize that disagreeing with someone is okay, and doesn't necessitate baseless personal attacks. Just explain why you disagree. Like I said before, if you had just presented your argument for Tim Sylvia, you would have made a good point, instead of coming off like a buffoon.


holy shit dude....did you read anything that has gone on in this back and forth? you said something about sylvia which i disagreed with and presented factual information to the contrary....its not a matter of opinion that he had more decisive wins after his victory over cabbage.....he had 11 more wins after that and thats a fact.....a point which i made in my first response.....to which you replied to by calling me a douche because you were upset that i proved your statement false. and i JUST SAID in my last post that if you DON'T think that all fighters are on steroids like i originally assumed you were, than "thats fine"....its right there in the last post i made dude....go have a look.

you are the one that has made the personal attacks.....like i also said in my last post......saying i'm a douche, that my presentation of facts is stupid....and then there's that axle thing. i did present my argument for sylvia right from the beginning and you got all sensitive about it and called me a douche......so honestly.....WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

[StanUpshaw]

check your facts dude.....he tested positive after defending the belt....not winning it. this was also back in 2003 when testing practices in UFC weren't as stringent. for a while now UFC has tested every single one of the fighters that compete on a card the night of, usually immediately following the fights and i believe the last positive test for steroids happened in 2007.

Another small correction...
They still don't test every fighter. On UFC 109 for instance, only 13 of 22 fighters were tested. (link (http://mmajunkie.com/news/17908/ufc-109-drug-test-results-come-back-clean.mma))

UFC 107 only 4 of 22 were tested! (link (http://mmajunkie.com/news/17430/ufc-107-drug-test-results-come-back-clean.mma))

[Serpico1103]

Chig said sylvia tested positive after he won the belt. Gutter jumped to the conclusion that chig meant the test was related to the fight that he won the belt in. However, fights defending the title are 'after winning the belt." So' maybe a little clarity is all that is needed. Personally, I always hated sylvias fights. But there is no denying that he was a force in the heavyweight ranks.
Whether greasing affected the outcome in gsp v penn is irrelevant. If he broke the rules, he broke the rules. If he didn't, he didn't. The behavior must be discouraged. I never got to analyze the footage, so maybe he did nothing wrong.

[Gutter]

Chig said sylvia tested positive after he won the belt. Gutter jumped to the conclusion that chig meant the test was related to the fight that he won the belt in. However, fights defending the title are 'after winning the belt." So' maybe a little clarity is all that is needed. Personally, I always hated sylvias fights. But there is no denying that he was a force in the heavyweight ranks.
Whether greasing affected the outcome in gsp v penn is irrelevant. If he broke the rules, he broke the rules. If he didn't, he didn't. The behavior must be discouraged. I never got to analyze the footage, so maybe he did nothing wrong.

the footage looks like not much is going on at all......he wipes his face and then touches his chest and shoulder. he makes kind of a "noogie" motion when he's touching his chest, but thats all it really looks like.

[Gutter]

Another small correction...
They still don't test every fighter. On UFC 109 for instance, only 13 of 22 fighters were tested. (link (http://mmajunkie.com/news/17908/ufc-109-drug-test-results-come-back-clean.mma))

UFC 107 only 4 of 22 were tested! (link (http://mmajunkie.com/news/17430/ufc-107-drug-test-results-come-back-clean.mma))

meh.....fair enough....i thought they were testing more of the fighters from the events more regularly.......13 out of 22 aint bad.

[StanUpshaw]

Here's a rather dramatic video examining the greasing incident (part 1 of 3)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mCYB1XP5LUc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mCYB1XP5LUc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Chigworthy]

you said something about sylvia which i disagreed with and presented factual information to the contrary....

Let's review:

There's always been a large question mark over Sylvia's head. I think his fight with Cabbage Carrera was the last time he really won with authority and without any doubt of luck or steroids.

I don't know about "this Canadian doctor and GSP", but that vaseline shit is bullshit. It should be a no contest.

Exactly. Sylvia's Champion days are long gone, and they were fairly tainted anyway.

I got into MMA after Sylvia was champ. What was tainted (hee hee) about his reign as champ?

Positive steroid test after winning the belt, and lucky wins.

he didn't have a tainted championship....it just seems like there are two posters contributing to this forum who have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to MMA, let alone UFC in general. Saying that GSP is probably on steroids because he has a canadian doctor and that his last fight with BJ should have been a no contest proves that there is a level of ignorance on display here.

i was merely pointing out that you're making some exaggerated claims about a sport you seem to have little knowledge of.

I'm saying that it was a long time ago that it happened and it seems that you and Ritalin who also posted seem to think that because Sylvia tested positive years ago that this is still the "norm" in the sport, when that is not the case.


As for this:

its not a matter of opinion that he had more decisive wins after his victory over cabbage.....he had 11 more wins after that and thats a fact.....a point which i made in my first response.

I said that I think his fight with Cabbage Carrera was the last time he really won with authority and without any doubt of luck or steroids. When Sylvia held the belt, in my experience, there was always either people saying that he had gotten lucky in his wins, or that it had something to do with steroids. I never said what was the actual case, just that his championships were tainted with doubt of luck or steroids. I did not say he had a bad record; that would be stupid because any fool can go to sherdog and see the numbers.


....to which you replied to by calling me a douche because you were upset that i proved your statement false.

I didn't call you a douche:
Look, if you were a fan before TUF, and feel the need to defend your personal and emotional investment against fans that are newer than you, you'll probably come off a bit of a douche.


And this...
you are the one that has made the personal attacks....
You started the salvo with posting how ignorant I was and how little I knew about UFC and MMA. Take a little responsibility for yourself.

[Gutter]

You started the salvo with posting how ignorant I was and how little I knew about UFC and MMA. Take a little responsibility for yourself.[/QUOTE]

no.....annnnnd go fuck yourself. you make little sense so you can enjoy re-posting all you want. your comments about sylvia are insanely off base. you're knowledge of this sport is lacking. you say you didn't call me a douche and then re-post the exact comment you made where you say i come off like a douche. so calling me a douche and saying i come off like a douche are different? i have no idea whats going on in your warped little mind about what you think has been going on here. just to be clear, my first comments about there being a level of ignorance on display here was mainly in reference to Riatalins post about there not being any exciting heavyweight fights lately which is not true. whatever dude.....i'm not sure what you're on about anymore but you're still making zero sense.

i'll make you a deal tho......come over to MMAjunkie and get yourself in the forums and make that same statement about Sylvia beating Cabbage and we'll see how your "opinion" holds up.

i'm done with your nonsense and i'd like to comment on the st. pierre greasing video now that has nothing to do with you....so i will.

[Gutter]

[QUOTE=StanUpshaw;2683909]Here's a rather dramatic video examining the greasing incident (part 1 of 3)

Interesting vid stan.....but some things i noticed. don't mind my numbered points....i don't want you to think i'm being a douche too.

1. comparing lightweight fighters at 155 to st. pierre at 170 doesn't make much sense to me. GSP is one of the strongest welterweights ever. and he's one of the most talented especially in his opponents guard.

2. watch the method used by uno and pulver to escape out of Penns guard. Uno is pushing off the ground and Pulver is pushing up with only his fists it appears. GSP is punching and pushing up from the center of penns chest with his forearms.

3. If you look closely, GSP's cornerman has the vaseline on the top of his left hand.....then he rubs GSPs back with the bottom (palm) of his left hand. the edit in the video tries to make it look like he rubs his shoulder with the same hand he applied the face grease with. not the case there. also, it appears he does touch GSPs left shoulder with the hand he applied the face grease with......however, he's touching the front of his shoulder and the main point of the video is that GSP had grease on his back which did not allow penn to lock in his guard. i still haven't seen evidence of that from this part of the vid.

4. The comparison to other 170lb fighters? Gracie does not have GSPs strength and is more comfortable on his back as opposed to being in guard. Hughes in the second fight with BJ already began to show signs that he was on the down slope. and I'm not 100% but i believe Machida beat Penn in the fight they show the last clip from.


just some things to think about from that. obviously the maker of the video has a pro Penn agenda.

[Furtherman]

Settle down ladies. You're arguing over two grown men in little shorts embracing each other most of the time. No need for any personal attacks.

[Serpico1103]

Here's a rather dramatic video examining the greasing incident (part 1 of 3)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mCYB1XP5LUc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mCYB1XP5LUc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Wow, do I hate loose change style videos. Overly dramatic, bad music beds.
But, I have to question GSP. Kizer said it was unfair. The NSAC guy tried to rub stuff off GSP. 5 out of last 8 opponents said GSP is slippery (not sure if Sherk meant greasy).
His corner man did awkwardly rub his back. I have never seen a corner guy rub like that, they massage your neck and all, but that looked like he was being sneaky.
BJ's legs do just slip down GSP's back.
I didn't know about mineral oil baths and the like. But, it makes sense, if you want to strike, you want to be slippery. Not sure how they can prevent fighters from soaking in grease like that.

[StanUpshaw]

They could allow the use of those stylish grappling trousers that Aoki wears.

Or even mandate that everybody's uniform be a full-body unitard.

[Serpico1103]

They could allow the use of those stylish grappling trousers that Aoki wears.

Or even mandate that everybody's uniform be a full-body unitard.

Maybe, have a wipe that detects the substance even if it is in the pores, when the guy checks for cup and mouthpiece, the wipes down the fighter.

And watch the corner men more. They make a mistake, it costs the fighter. They are professionals, aren't they.

[Chigworthy]

Maybe, have a wipe that detects the substance even if it is in the pores, when the guy checks for cup and mouthpiece, the wipes down the fighter.

And watch the corner men more. They make a mistake, it costs the fighter. They are professionals, aren't they.

Or really sexy it up and have everyone slathered in grease from head to toe.

[Fallon]

UFC on Versus tonight @ 9pm.

What a shock that us DirecTV customers got Versus back just in time for the promotion of UFC.

NHL must have no stroke.

[StanUpshaw]

How the fuck does Buentello keep getting gigs?

[Gutter]

How the fuck does Buentello keep getting gigs?

he's been a fan favorite since he KO'd Justin Eilers......he was gone for a while and when he came back recently he had an awesome fight with Stephan Struve. that was a hell of a war. after getting owned on the ground by Kongo (who's ground game has been suspect for a while now) we might not be seeing Buentello anymore. Personally i hope they keep him......he loves to trade and he can flash KO ppl.

[Crippler]

he's been a fan favorite since he KO'd Justin Eilers......he was gone for a while and when he came back recently he had an awesome fight with Stephan Struve. that was a hell of a war. after getting owned on the ground by Kongo (who's ground game has been suspect for a while now) we might not be seeing Buentello anymore. Personally i hope they keep him......he loves to trade and he can flash KO ppl.

After tapping to strikes, I assume Dana had someone else pack his locker room for him & he was released before he got backstage. Not saying I could have taken that pounding, but I've got to think Dana was not pleased with what he saw.

If he does stay I have to think the only fights left for him are the likes of Kimbo or Toney solely for the fact that you can (almost) guarantee those fights will be stand-up brawls. Then again, I'm pretty sure that's what they thought about this fight with Kongo.

[Gutter]

After tapping to strikes, I assume Dana had someone else pack his locker room for him & he was released before he got backstage. Not saying I could have taken that pounding, but I've got to think Dana was not pleased with what he saw.

If he does stay I have to think the only fights left for him are the likes of Kimbo or Toney solely for the fact that you can (almost) guarantee those fights will be stand-up brawls. Then again, I'm pretty sure that's what they thought about this fight with Kongo.

true true.....it doesn't really look that good for Kongo though that he couldn't finish Buentello in a more impressive fashion.....Kongo should have destroyed PB in the first round.

[Fallon]

Cole Escovedo destroying Yoshihiro Maeda Monday.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2rghuso.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/m6ich.jpg

[Crippler]

Cole Escovedo destroying Yoshihiro Maeda Monday.

That's probably the first head-kick knock out I've ever seen where the kick landed on the "button"/chin instead of landing on the temple or behind the ear. Crazy knockout.

Also on that card, one of the worst nut-shots I've ever seen landed by Barnett on Mighty Mo. The only one I've ever seen that resulted in a longer recovery break was CroCop/Overeem. But what the Overeem fight didn't have was the sportsmanship Barnett showed after the fight by allowing Mighty Mo to knee him in the nuts in return to make them square...odd moment.

[StanUpshaw]

You don't count the up-kick?

[Dirtbag]

Also on that card, one of the worst nut-shots I've ever seen landed by Barnett on Mighty Mo. The only one I've ever seen that resulted in a longer recovery break was CroCop/Overeem. But what the Overeem fight didn't have was the sportsmanship Barnett showed after the fight by allowing Mighty Mo to knee him in the nuts in return to make them square...odd moment.

Try to find Gonzaga vs Tuchscherer from the UFC 102 prelims. I still can't believe the guy continued after that, but then went and blew all the goodwill it built by having a horrible fight at 109.

[gregman]

could somebody please pm me a way to watch the fight for free tonight. 45 is too much money

[StanUpshaw]

I don't know what it is, but I haven't been excited for a fight since Machica-Shogun; before that, I'm not even sure...maybe Rampage-Liddell.

In the Pride days, I'd stay up all night to watch it live on a tiny, shitty stream. Is it me, or is the magic just gone?

I'm definitely not excited about anything tonight. I'm interested in how Mir-Carwin will go down...I guess I'll have to give Mir the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure GSP will win in a dominating fashion, yet somehow manage to bore me to tears while doing it.

I dunno. Maybe I'll watch those Primetime episodes and see if I can get pumped up a little.

[JDE]

could somebody please pm me a way to watch the fight for free tonight. 45 is too much money

ditto if anyone has a link, much appreciated.

[Tenbatsuzen]

ditto if anyone has a link, much appreciated.

check your pms, home slice

[newport king]

found 1 sopcast channel with the fight, choppy as can be with no audio. :thumbdown:

any help on this matter would be appreciated.

[Tenbatsuzen]

God, Mir is the WORST.

[newport king]

what happened? apparently im using a 56k modem thats the quality of the video.

[newport king]

anyone? anyone?

[Tenbatsuzen]

what happened? apparently im using a 56k modem thats the quality of the video.

Mir got destroyed 1:20 into the first round.

They then cut to a prelim fight where a guy got heel locked and knee was destroyed when he slipped on the logo in th emiddle of the ring.

[Dirtbag]

Watching Mir get beat up makes me almost as happy as watching Tito get beat up.

Brock by TKO R2.

[TripleSkeet]

I don't know what it is, but I haven't been excited for a fight since Machica-Shogun; before that, I'm not even sure...maybe Rampage-Liddell.

In the Pride days, I'd stay up all night to watch it live on a tiny, shitty stream. Is it me, or is the magic just gone?

I'm definitely not excited about anything tonight. I'm interested in how Mir-Carwin will go down...I guess I'll have to give Mir the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure GSP will win in a dominating fashion, yet somehow manage to bore me to tears while doing it.

I dunno. Maybe I'll watch those Primetime episodes and see if I can get pumped up a little.

Well you were right about GSP.

I just dont get Mir. Its like his gameplan is to take the punches while trying to figure out how to lock a submission hold in, but the fucking guy takes a punch like my wife. I loved the fact he didnt even get an after fight interview and instead they talked to Carwin and Lesnar. Between the 2 of them they have combined for about 150 punches to Mirs face.

[Crispy123]

Well you were right about GSP.

I just dont get Mir. Its like his gameplan is to take the punches while trying to figure out how to lock a submission hold in, but the fucking guy takes a punch like my wife. I loved the fact he didnt even get an after fight interview and instead they talked to Carwin and Lesnar. Between the 2 of them they have combined for about 150 punches to Mirs face.

That GSP fight bored you?

I thought he was going to rip Hardy's arm off.

[TripleSkeet]

That GSP fight bored you?

I thought he was going to rip Hardy's arm off.

Those two submission holds that Hardy got out of was pretty intense, but besides that the other 24 1/2 minutes were putting me to sleep. Its like most of GSP's fights. I cant fault the guy, hes a machine on the ground and refuses to put himself in a position to get beat. But his style is very methodical, technical and low risk....in other words, boring as hell.

[StanUpshaw]

Unless GSP's next fight is at 185, I'm going to start mailing him boxes of my own feces, and will seriously consider Jeff Gilloolying the little faggot.

[cougarjake13]

Well you were right about GSP.

I just dont get Mir. Its like his gameplan is to take the punches while trying to figure out how to lock a submission hold in, but the fucking guy takes a punch like my wife. I loved the fact he didnt even get an after fight interview and instead they talked to Carwin and Lesnar. Between the 2 of them they have combined for about 150 punches to Mirs face.

im just glad mir didnt win


no one wanted to see lesnar mir 3


ill def be buying the carwin lesnar ppv

[Willmore]

Wake me up for Lesnar vs. Fedor, everything else is just too fucking boring.

[JPMNICK]

anyone watching the new season of "The Ultimate Fighter"?

Seems like it might be a decent season, I have not watched the past few, but I think I am back in for this one.

[Dirtbag]

I say every season I'm going to watch, but outside of the premier and finale I never do. They need to cut the show down to 30 minutes and just show the fights, amateurish as they are.

[Willmore]

I say every season I'm going to watch, but outside of the premier and finale I never do. They need to cut the show down to 30 minutes and just show the fights, amateurish as they are.

Or, show 3 fights per 1 hours episode and cut the season to like 5-6 shows.

[newport king]

i dvr a few episodes then fast forward through the bs and commercials

[StanUpshaw]

I like the whole thing. I like seeing the practice, and I usually like the house hi jinks.

If you want to see no-name fighters having shitty fights, why not just go on YouTube?

[JPMNICK]

That guys broken nose was one of the worst things i have ever seen. it looked fake, i could not believe he was just standing there like that

[newport king]

i would have thought with the revamped gym they put in they would have had those cheap doors replaced with something more solid. every season someone smashes the door.

[Willmore]

That guys broken nose was one of the worst things i have ever seen. it looked fake, i could not believe he was just standing there like that

Looked nasty, but not that horrible. Honestly, I cringe more when I see those huge gashes on the forehead.

[Crippler]

I like the whole thing. I like seeing the practice, and I usually like the house hi jinks.
If you want to see no-name fighters having shitty fights, why not just go on YouTube?

I agree, especially if the coaches are interesting. Last season I would have watched 42 minutes of just Rampage acting silly every week. But the tension between Tito & Chuck (depending on how many internet rumors are true) should be enough to carry the programs for however long they go before they get to the fight each week.

That guys broken nose was one of the worst things i have ever seen. it looked fake, i could not believe he was just standing there like that

That was brutal. It reminded me of when Anderson Silva moved Rich Franklin's nose to the other side of his face when he took his belt...and like you said, it just didn't look real, it looked like cartoon violence.

[StanUpshaw]

Holy shit, #112 snuck up on me. I totally forgot it was today.

[weekapaugjz]

What's the headline fight tonight?

[StanUpshaw]

What's the headline fight tonight?

Take your pick:
Penn vs Edgar
A. Silva vs Maia
Hughes vs Renzo

And beware spoilers, because the fights HAVE taken place already.

[StanUpshaw]

I haven't got the two title fights yet, but the undercard has been pretty fantastic.

Dos Anjos vs Etim had some great back and forth action. Munoz vs Grove was outstanding - who doesn't love a comeback?

And Hughes vs Gracie was such a great fucking show...not so much a fight...but more like an old school pro wrestling match. Slow moving give and take. Working over the leg. Building action. Several (figurative) two-counts leading up to a last second pin. Fucking fantastic.

[StanUpshaw]

Ok, the main events were...I'm not sure...interesting at the very least.

Frankie won the most rounds. I'm not sure I could say he beat Penn, but Penn certainly wasn't able to beat Edgar. He fought the smartest possible strategy, but in my eyes, it was a disappointing way for a belt to change hands.

Anderson Silva ought to have ripped off his shirt and exposed the nWo logo, because he did a fucking heel turn tonight. Again, much like the Hughes fight, this was an amazing pro wrestling match and a rather shitty fight.

[Dirtbag]

Fuck Anderson Silva. He thinks he's so bad ass and wants to fight at heavyweight? Give him Lesnar. We'll see how much shit talking and dancing he can do on his back eating canned hams. I wouldn't even mind seeing him emaciate himself and letting GSP lay on him for 25 minutes.

[Crippler]

I think we're going to hear that there was something wrong with BJ, not that it'll be a valid excuse, but something wasn't right with him. It didn't look like he wanted anything to do with this fight tonight. Even though I'm happy to see the belt on a Jersey boy, don't you have to "beat" the champion. That was the least dominated fight I think I've ever seen. Not so much boring, more uneventful...if that makes sense.

And Anderson Silva should be embarrassed of his performance. When you're toying with a guy 40 seconds into a title fight & 25 minutes later you've done everything in your arsenal to humiliate your opponent & haven't bothered to finish him, you're not a great champion. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe Silva would have freight-trained Maia if he felt like doing so, but apparently he just didn't feel like it.

Dana was in his corner between round 4 & 5 and I can only assume he said something to the effect of, "FUCKING FINISH THIS FUCKING FIGHT....FUCKETY FUCK!" Still, round 5 was another showboating snoozer except for a few flourishes by Maia. Very unimpressive for the "best pound for pound fighter in the world."

[Dirtbag]

I think we're going to hear that there was something wrong with BJ, not that it'll be a valid excuse, but something wasn't right with him. It didn't look like he wanted anything to do with this fight tonight. Even though I'm happy to see the belt on a Jersey boy, don't you have to "beat" the champion. That was the least dominated fight I think I've ever seen. Not so much boring, more uneventful...if that makes sense.
BJ looked to me exactly like he did against Florian and Sanchez. More than content to sit back, play defensively, counter punch, and wait for a mistake. Edgar just didn't make one tonight and his speed let him win on points. I doubt he'll defend once because he's sure to draw either a rematch with BJ or a fight with Florian, and even Gray Maynard could out-wrestle him to a decision. But now it wouldn't surprise me to see Shinya Aoki scrambling to sign a UFC contract either.

[StanUpshaw]

I hardly see the point in having a LW belt. At any given time, there are 10-15 guys (worldwide) at the top, any one of whom could beat the others depending on the night. Nobody-- not Penn, Aoki, Gomi -- have managed to string together a dominant reign like we've had in the other weight classes.

The GP format really suits the lightweight division better than a championship. It really mixes up the talent and gives young guys a chance to break out. Plus, I think the "there's always next year" mentality leads to better fights. People get too cautious when a loss means you have to go to the back of the line.

[King Imp]

I doubt he'll defend once because he's sure to draw either a rematch with BJ or a fight with Florian, and even Gray Maynard could out-wrestle him to a decision.

Screw that.

Granted, I'm not the biggest Florian fan, but I admit he one of the best. Thing is he's had two shots and lost both. Enough already.

Like you said, BJ deserves a rematch and if not that then Maynard deserves the shot as he's the only one to beat Edgar so far.

If you are looking further down the road, then guys like Nate Diaz, Rafael Dos Anjos, Paul Kelly, and George Sotiropoulos deserve to be in the mix before Florian gets yet another shot. Hell, throw the last two LW Ultimate Fighter winners (Efrain Escudero and Ross Pearson) against each other and the winner shoots themselves near the top of the list.

[JPMNICK]

I hate silva so much, and hated that entire match. if I was Dana White, I would only keep him on non PPV events.

as i was watching the Penn fight, i was saying to my buddy something looked off with him. he was so flat on his feet the entire time.

[newport king]

strikeforce tonight? why dont they advertise?

[StanUpshaw]

strikeforce tonight? why dont they advertise?

I had the TV on for one hour in the past week (Survivor) and heard a commercial with Hendo on it.

[StanUpshaw]

http://imgur.com/Xd8a1.jpg

[Chigworthy]

http://imgur.com/Xd8a1.jpg

Is that Aleks pre-prison tats?

[StanUpshaw]

Jesus Christ, I fucking hate wrestlers.

[StanUpshaw]

I can't believe I turned off the TV at the end of Hendo-Shields, and ended up missing the only entertaining part of the night.


Why can't it be 2004 again?

[Crippler]

Jesus Christ, I fucking hate wrestlers.

I really thought Mousasi/King Mo would be an entertaining fight. Wow, was I wrong. Mousasi looked less in to this fight than BJ Penn did last week in his. I know he's famous for looking like he doesn't much care about what's going on but Christ he had nothing. Not that Mo did a lot, missing with most of the bombs he threw, but when you take a guy down at will you can't be out pointed. If only these wrestlers knew how to finish a damn fight.

I can't believe I turned off the TV at the end of Hendo-Shields, and ended up missing the only entertaining part of the night.

StrikeForce should have learned from EliteXC's mistakes, never let a Diaz in the cage if he's not contracted to fight...cause he's gonna fight either way.

[King Imp]

Can anyone think of a truly well-rounded fighter? I'm talking someone who is great at standup and has devastating KO power, brilliant BJJ that can almost submit you at a moments notice and strong takedown defense?

Seriously, I'm starting to get bored of watching these one dimensional fighters who if they aren't in their element, then they don't know what to do.
I'm sure this Mousasi guy is good, but Christ could that takedown defense be anymore pathetic.
I've never seen this Aoki fight, but apparently according to the announcers is one of the best LWs in the world. I sure as hell didn't see that last night. That was a joke how he just fell to the ground and was scooting across the mat on his ass, waiting for Melendez to "come into his world." Get the fuck up and fight!
I love Hendo and he is a legend, but he looked completely lost once he couldn't land with the right hand. Granted, he was up against someone who is great on the ground (who I will get to next), but how can you be great in this sport and not stop a takedown.
As for Shields, sure he's great on the ground, but he has less punching power than my cat. Another person who is scared to be on their feet and the second they feel someone's power they are trying to get it to the ground.


I am dying to see someone who is well-rounded in all aspects and feels comfortable no matter where they are because with most of these fighters once they are out of their element the rest of the fight is a borefest.


StrikeForce should have learned from EliteXC's mistakes, never let a Diaz in the cage if he's not contracted to fight...cause he's gonna fight either way.

I love how in the past the announcers keep trying to say how the Diaz' are maturing. Yup, looked real mature last night.
Sure, it was Mayhem who came in the cage, but all he did was say he wanted a rematch. Nothing that needed 10 guys to jump on him and kick him while he was on the ground.

[TripleSkeet]

I dont know if its CBS or Strikeforce, but its amazing to me how much it looks like such a 2nd rate show. I dont know if they just dont have much of a production budget or what, it just looks like shit.

And I dont know who the jerkoff is that looks like PC from the Mac commercials but him and his annoying voice need to get the fuck off my tv.

[Dirtbag]

Can anyone think of a truly well-rounded fighter? I'm talking someone who is great at standup and has devastating KO power, brilliant BJJ that can almost submit you at a moments notice and strong takedown defense?Until last week the most obvious answer would be BJ Penn, and despite him probably being unmotivated/undertrained for the Edgar fight he still he is. Fedor is also way, way up there. The most glaring hole is his wrestling/takedown defense, but his sambo/JJ is so good that most of the time I think he's letting guys take him down so he can armbar them from the guard. Just watch the Coleman and HMC fights.

I've never seen this Aoki fight, but apparently according to the announcers is one of the best LWs in the world. I sure as hell didn't see that last night. That was a joke how he just fell to the ground and was scooting across the mat on his ass, waiting for Melendez to "come into his world." Get the fuck up and fight!I'm a fan of Aoki, but he's incredibly one dimensional. His jiu jitsu is ridiculously good and only probably Maia and Jacare are better in MMA, but he's got no striking skills at all and if he can't get you down he's got nothing. Last night was proof that probably 7 of the top 10 UFC LWs would have a field day with him, especially under UFC rules.
I love how in the past the announcers keep trying to say how the Diaz' are maturing. Yup, looked real mature last night.
Sure, it was Mayhem who came in the cage, but all he did was say he wanted a rematch. Nothing that needed 10 guys to jump on him and kick him while he was on the ground.
There's a lot of blame to go around for that entire situation, but the Diaz brothers, particularly Nick, are savages. He's lucky that he's actually a good fighter or he'd be in War Machine territory.

[StanUpshaw]

And I dont know who the jerkoff is that looks like PC from the Mac commercials but him and his annoying voice need to get the fuck off my tv.

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[newport king]

faber vs aldo. who u got?

[Crippler]

I'll be rooting for Faber (nothing against Aldo), but I don't think I would put money on him. From what I've seen of Aldo, which admittedly is not too much, he looks like a 145 pound version of Anderson Silva from his first 5 or 6 fights in the UFC. Just a wrecking machine.

[StanUpshaw]

It's impossible to predict how fights will go when these tiny fuckers are in there. I don't have a good guess about the outcome, but I do hope that Faber gets humiliated - I hate that prick.

[smiler grogan]

I've only seen these guys a few times, both are amazing. I am going with the champ but would not be surprised if faber wins the belt back.

[JPMNICK]

I've only seen these guys a few times, both are amazing. I am going with the champ but would not be surprised if faber wins the belt back.

seems like it is going to be either a quick knockout if they come out of the corner like a tornado, or a really brutal fight. i am not getting it, so someone post in here the outcome if you can

[smiler grogan]

I'm not getting it either but your outcome seems dead on

[newport king]

dont know who saw the prelims...last prelim was the best mma fight i've ever seen

[Crippler]

dont know who saw the prelims...last prelim was the best mma fight i've ever seen

Fuck yeah...there were moments in that fight that looked kinda like Don Frye & Takayama in miniature...just throwing bombs.

The first PPV fight hasn't been bad either. These lighter weight classes always put on a good show.

[smiler grogan]

dont know who saw the prelims...last prelim was the best mma fight i've ever seen

Saw it and ordered the ppv because of it.

[Crippler]

Wow...

DID NOT SEE THAT COMING, Manny G knocks former 145 lb champ Mike Brown the fuck out.

[smiler grogan]

Aldo is so relaxed looking, its creepy

[newport king]

enjoy that limp urijah. shitty fight. leg kicks are almost like cheating.

[Crippler]

Now he looks like Anderson Silva from 2 weeks ago. Another Ed Soares guy who goes into neutral & decides not to take a chance & try to finish when it's obvious he can do so. Certainly not his m.o. in the past, but that wasn't the way to perform in a round 5 in your company's 1st PPV. Christ, I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

[smiler grogan]

Total domination, yeah the ending was anticlimactic

[StanUpshaw]

dont know who saw the prelims...last prelim was the best mma fight i've ever seen

It was an amazing fight, a balls-out war, entertaining as all fuck, I'm sure I'll watch it again. But...it was a sloppy, ridiculous, toughman brawl. I just can't rate it all that high in the grand scheme of things.

On the other hand, in the Aldo fight we had a methodical, absolutely technical deconstruction, and it held very little excitement. The only theatre there was the "never say die" angle from Faber. So again, I really can't rate it very high.

In any case, it was a great fucking show, as WEC usually is, but I really don't think anything earned "Fight of the Decade" as Rogan was ready to declare.

[smiler grogan]

Leonard Garcia gets a maniacal enjoyment out of standing against the cage and letting his opponent punch him in the face. I don't think he won that fight.

[newport king]

the korean zombie got robbed

[Willmore]

I hope Aldo moves up to lightweight for a BJ Penn fight.

[StanUpshaw]

Tito GnP'd Jenna (http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/04/26/2010-04-26_jenna_jamesons_boyfriend_tito_ortiz_charged_wit h_beating_her_up.html)

[Dan 'Hampton]

He was just working the bags.

[Tenbatsuzen]

From Jenna's Wikipedia earlier today:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hmmzrc.png

[Fallon]

Tito's an ass.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Tito's an ass.

I'd punch her too, if she went from looking like the girl in "Jenna Ink" to what she's become.

[Willmore]

From Jenna's Wikipedia earlier today:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hmmzrc.png

I chuckled.

[Serpico1103]

MMA- it eats away at you.

Enjoy 4,3, and 2. Didn't know it was possible.

10 Worst Staph Infections in MMA

http://middleeasy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2056

[smiler grogan]

Holy fuck. Are these people so dumb they don't know they have an infection. I couldn't look at Randleman's or beyond. Fucking gross mother fuckers.

[Serpico1103]

Holy fuck. Are these people so dumb they don't know they have an infection. I couldn't look at Randleman's or beyond. Fucking gross mother fuckers.

Number 2, and he earned it, went to 2 doctors. Them told him the swelling and discoloration was due to weight gain. Now he lost use of his foot.

[smiler grogan]

Number 2, and he earned it, went to 2 doctors. Them told him the swelling and discoloration was due to weight gain. Now he lost use of his foot.
Weight gain? A doctor called that weight gain wowzers. I'm still really queazy from those images.

[smiler grogan]

So staph just ate its way through the Militech camp huh that speaks volumes of the hygiene of that place at that time at least.

[Serpico1103]

So staph just ate its way through the Militech camp huh that speaks volumes of the hygiene of that place at that time at least.

Yeah, but I don't doubt some of these guys are training, going to sleep, training, maybe shower, training, sleep, training. Throw in some pain pills and "performance enhancing drugs."
The foot and Randleman are bad. Looks like I can see his lungs.