Best Superhero Movie

[JustJon]

A friend and I were talking over dinner and posed to him this quandary: What is the best superhero movie?

We hit alot of the major ones and after hitting your Batmans, your Supermans, your Spidermans, Spawn, Fantastic Fours, etc., our decision came down to Batman Begins.

So I ask is this the best superhero movie ever made or is there a better one?

[booster11373]

Batman begins is the best so far........ and head and shoulder above all the others

[Judge Smails]

I'm a guy who's never read a comic book in his life, and in general is not impressed by the whole Superhero thing (I realize the irony too). The only reason I go to these superhero movies is because I fall for the hype everytime and out of sheer boredom. So as a completely unbiased judge I'd have to say that Batman Begins wins hands down. It has me really looking forward to The Dark Knight.

[Marc with a c]

blankman

[IMSlacker]

Batman Begins is probably my favorite super hero movie as well. I'd say Hellboy is a close second though.

[smiler grogan]

THE PUNISHER starring Dolph Lundgren

[Jubjubs]

Got to agree with "Batman Begins". The minute it ended I was looking forward to the next chapter. I can't say that about many films, let alone a superhero movie.

[Justice4all]

THE PUNISHER starring Dolph Lundgren
Ok NOW you are making fun.


There are alot of not just good but GREAT comic-to-movies that have come out in the last 10 years.
Xmen was fantastic. The storyline still stuck to the basics that made the comic what it is but appealed to a broader audience. (along with 2 and 3)
Spider Man....the same.
Then movies like The Hulk and Fantastic Four came out....and I was disappointed.
Daredevil...well it did not suck as bad as I thought it could have...but it was NO Xmen (same as Punisher)

I was a Make Mine Marvel kinda guy when it came to comic books.
But when Batman Begins came out I was blown away. I had never seen a comic movie that stuck SO close to the comic it was created from (Batman: Year 1) and STILL appealed to the audience.

Christian Baile was awsome as The Dark Knight/Bruce Wayne.
Morgan Freeman as Lucious Fox.
Michael Caine as Alfred....all great choice in actors to fill those roles.

I walked away thinking the same as most of you "Wow I just saw the BEST Superhero movie that had been created"

Superman Returns had a pretty cool appeal also. It kind of was a sequel to Superman II. The storyline was scetchy but I enjoyed it.

Now they are coming out with Iron Man (which, by the trailer...actually looks really good) and The Hulk. Not a sequel but another studio giving it a crack. Although I do not think the Eric Bana/Ang Lee movie was that bad to begin with) and...*trumpets please* The Dark Knight (first Batman movie withOUT his name in the title)

After seeing the extended trailer for this movie...and Heath Ledger (god rest his soul) as the Joker....I have to say this one might take the title. I am optimistic. Let's hope it stays true to form.

[ToLEEdo]

I enjoyed Spiderman more then Batman Begins but I can see how that would be considered a better film. Until the Y LTM movie I'll have to say Spiderman.

[dereckfishboy]

I was a big fan of the short-lived Nightstalkers series, so I've always been a big fan of the Blade movies (first two at least).... I've got high hopes for "The Darkness" but I'm sure it'll disappoint....

[Furtherman]

Batman Begins is probably my favorite super hero movie as well. I'd say Hellboy is a close second though.

My thoughts exactly.

[WampusCrandle]

i wont be able to make my decision until i see the new batman movie. the reason is that i like Xmen more for characters and story line, but the new batman movie was soo good that i couldnt care that i am not a real big fan of batman. i think that is what makes a superhero movie so good, to turn you around and make you a fan.

[Drunky McBetidont]

the dark knight might have some competition. scifi channel ready to release a new movie :clap:
http://www.forcefeedback.tv/Images/FeedbackHome6.jpg

looks like gold to me!

[Thebazile78]

OK, I may be galactically uncool for thinking this but, until I saw Batman Begins, I honestly thought that Tim Burton's first Batman movie took first prize for "best superhero movie." Maybe it's because it was the first comic book movie that made me actually want to read comic books, or maybe because it was one of the more fun summer movies I saw with my Dad and brothers, but I really have a soft spot for it.

In my opinion, there are several things that are key for a successful superhero movie:

(1) Casting.
(2) Script.
(3) Atmosphere.

Above all, I really think that taking yourself too seriously is an instant death sentence in this type of movie.

I enjoyed Daredevil, but I've never read the comics. (Sometimes, this is a good thing.)

I also enjoyed Hellboy because I thought it was handled with a light enough hand that it came across very well for those of us who were unfamiliar with the character. (I've never read a Hellboy comic in my life.)

I really liked Superman and Superman 2 because I think Christopher Reeve was adorable. (His Clark Kent reminded me of my dad.) I also enjoyed Superman Returns, but would love to see them do a film version of Last Son of Krypton instead. [Of course, I am one of those fanboys who poked their companion in the arm at every cameo, once I spotted them. Like casting Noel Neil and Jack Larson in bit parts...when Mr. Larson came on screen I was so happy to see him there that I stopped focusing on the story and just exclaimed "that's Jimmy Olson!" ... yes, I am a geek.]

I enjoyed Spiderman and Spiderman 2 because I love the director. And anything that keeps Bruce Campbell working is OK by me. (I love Bruce Campbell.)

I had a good time with the first X-Men flick. Hugh Jackman made the movie for me. (Of course, it was 15 times funnier after I had to explain the joke about yellow spandex to my mother...good times.)

I'm looking forward to Dark Knight because I think Begins was amazing. Batman: Year 1 before seeing it, so it really was a surreal experience for me.]

[Thebazile78]

the dark knight might have some competition. scifi channel ready to release a new movie :clap:
http://www.forcefeedback.tv/Images/FeedbackHome6.jpg

looks like gold to me!

As if further proof was needed that Stan Lee will do ANYTHING to make a buck...say it ain't so, Stan, say it ain't so! :glurps:

[EliSnow]

I think Batman Begins, probably.

I really liked Spider-man and X-2, and think those are close.

Blade and Blade 2 were awesome as well though.

[Freitag]

1) SUperman II
2) 300
3) Begins
4) Sin City

I will agree with my wife that I liked Daredevil but never read the books. I don't understand the constant fanboy hatred of it.

[Freitag]

I didn't like Spider-Man overall because of the problems I had with Maguire and Dunst in the lead roles.

X-2 was good and a marked improvement over the first one.

Does Unbreakable count? If so, I'd like to put that up there.

[EliSnow]

I will agree with my wife that I liked Daredevil but never read the books. I don't understand the constant fanboy hatred of it.

I'm a huge Daredevil comics fan, and I really liked Daredevil. I'm not sure why people hated it, but I think it's because of Affleck hatred.

[TheMojoPin]

I dislike Daredevil not because it's horrible, but because it had the potential to be a really solid, pulpy superhero flick. The biggest issue is that it crams 3 epic storylines (DD and Elektra, DD vs. Bullseye, DD vs. the Kingpin) into one film and ends up making them all rushed, flimsy and decidedly less effective than they could have been. Secondly, the soundtrack was way too loud, constant and horribly chosen. It instantly dated the film, made it more disposable and had zero sense of relation to what we were seeing. The whole thing was turned into a crappy music video. Finally, showing DD letting the rapist get smooshed by the train was just wrong. Yeah, it's cliche, but these guys simply don't do that. It's one thing if you bend that rule with the major villain of the storyline or film, but for just some street schlub? No way.

I really liked the cast, and I think in better hands the movie could have easily been much, much better, especially if the 3 biggest DD storylines were spaced out. The genius behind Grumpy Old Men and Simon Birch simply was not the right choice.

[ToLEEdo]

I forgot about 300!! Good comic too.

[TheMojoPin]

Best superhero movie, not best comic book film.

If we were doing that, stuff like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence easily trump all.

[Freitag]

I'm a huge Daredevil comics fan, and I really liked Daredevil. I'm not sure why people hated it, but I think it's because of Affleck hatred.

I can undestand the dislike of Garner's casting as Elektra, but seriously - WHO ELSE COULD YOU HAVE CAST AS MATT MURDOCK? He was PERFECT for that role. ACTING LESSONS! DANCING LESSONS!

Fanboys won't even recognize that the movie was a success. It made 100+ worldwide before DVDs, and that was a movie release in February.

I will say this: Chris Evans was good as Johnny Storm. Everything else, not so much.

[Freitag]

Best superhero movie, not best comic book film.

If we were doing that, stuff like Road to Perdition and A History of Violence easily trump all.

You can't argue that Leonidas was not presented as a superhero in this movie.

[TheMojoPin]

You can't argue that Leonidas was not presented as a superhero in this movie.

That has more to do with Frank Miller being a mysogonist, closeted, self-hating homosexual than anything else.

[donnie_darko]

no one likes v for vandetta ehh?

i'm a huge fan of daredevil comics, and i loved ben affleck and the favreau guy in the movie, and hated everything else about it.

you really appreciate batman begins more if you're a fan of the comics, the inclusion of characters was great, like the cameo made by i think his name is victor Zsas, which i found lots of people didn't even notice.

the movie really did include many of the characters from the original, but did so much better than spiderman 3, which just seemed cluttered.

[EliSnow]

no one likes v for vandetta ehh?



I loved it, but I don't think it's a superhero movie.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

V for Vendetta's more like an antihero movie.

Question about criteria here: Are we only counting the costumed superheroes from Marvel and DC who have made it to film? Or are we counting hero movies where the good guys have super powers? Cuz if we're doing the latter, then I have to elect the first Matrix- that's pretty fucking superpowered.

[IMSlacker]

Dr. Detroit

[Gritty]

For shear emotional impact, my fave would be 'Superman' even though I'm more of a Batman fan. I was in college when it premiered and still remember how I felt the first time Chris Reeve rips open his shirt to reveal the 'S' and then took to the skies. I really did believe a man could fly. Loved the time spent on the Kent farm even though most people don't. The effects were great for the time, the story had comedy and drama and good performances by most of the cast. Reeve was dead solid perfect as Kent and Superman. I could have done without Otis as comic relief but otherwise I still stop to watch it whenever it comes on.

'Batman' with Michael Keaton is probably second. Although it has more flaws in the story than it should, I liked Keaton's work and the overall look and feel of the movie. It's biggest problem (carried through all of the Batman flics) is exposing Batman's secret to the leading lady. For pete's sake, he's only known her for a day or two!

'Batman Begins' would be next. A comic movie grounded in reality. Everything works here except I'm still not sure if Liam Neeson was Ducard or really Ra's A Ghoul the whole time.

[EliSnow]

'Batman Begins' would be next. A comic movie grounded in reality. Everything works here except I'm still not sure if Liam Neeson was Ducard or really Ra's A Ghoul the whole time.

He was Ra's the entire time, but just pretending to be Ducard at the start.

[EliSnow]

For shear emotional impact, my fave would be 'Superman' even though I'm more of a Batman fan. I was in college when it premiered and still remember how I felt the first time Chris Reeve rips open his shirt to reveal the 'S' and then took to the skies. I really did believe a man could fly. Loved the time spent on the Kent farm even though most people don't. The effects were great for the time, the story had comedy and drama and good performances by most of the cast. Reeve was dead solid perfect as Kent and Superman. I could have done without Otis as comic relief but otherwise I still stop to watch it whenever it comes on.


The first 2/3 to 3/4 of Superman was the best first 2/3 to 3/4 of a superhero movie ever made.

For me, the whole Luthor storyline stunk. Yes, Otis was bad, but so was Luthor, who is supposed to be a mastermind, doing with him? I'm a Hackman fan, and he did good with what he was given for Luther, but I really didn't like the whole Luther scheme, etc. And don't get me started on the turning back the earth turns back time thing.

I also dislike a good portion of Superman because of a lot of the cheezy elements (like when the mob rushed Zod and Co. after apparently killing "Superman."

[Patient zer0]

corky romano

[Gritty]

The first 2/3 to 3/4 of Superman was the best first 2/3 to 3/4 of a superhero movie ever made.

For me, the whole Luthor storyline stunk. Yes, Otis was bad, but so was Luthor, who is supposed to be a mastermind, doing with him? I'm a Hackman fan, and he did good with what he was given for Luther, but I really didn't like the whole Luther scheme, etc. And don't get me started on the turning back the earth turns back time thing.

I guess I had read enough 50's & early 60's Superman comics that I expected villians to have lame schemes and reasons for what they did.

I also dislike a good portion of Superman because of a lot of the cheezy elements (like when the mob rushed Zod and Co. after apparently killing "Superman."

You mean Superman II, right?

Have you seen the Donner cut of Superman II? A lot less silly than what we saw in theaters.

[EliSnow]

You mean Superman II, right?

Have you seen the Donner cut of Superman II? A lot less silly than what we saw in theaters.

Yes, forgot to add the II.

I have seen the Donnor cut, and it does cut out somoe silly stuff, but it does have some, including turning back the earth yet again.

[Gritty]

Yes, forgot to add the II.

I have seen the Donnor cut, and it does cut out somoe silly stuff, but it does have some, including turning back the earth yet again.

See, I always chose to believe he wasn't turning back the earth, he was just sending himself back in time as he frequently did in those days. You couldn't use rainbow colored circles and numbers floating in the air to indicate he was traveling through time, so you show the earth spinning backwards and rocks rolling up hills.

[EliSnow]

See, I always chose to believe he wasn't turning back the earth, he was just sending himself back in time as he frequently did in those days. You couldn't use rainbow colored circles and numbers floating in the air to indicate he was traveling through time, so you show the earth spinning backwards and rocks rolling up hills.

I don't buy that explanation, because at one point, he stopped flying counter-rotation (when he reached the time he wanted), and then flew the other way as to start time flowing the other way. If he was simply traveling back through time, he could have just stopped at the correct time.

Thus, the clear implication of his flight was to indicate that he had to turn the earth's rotation the other way to turn back time, and then correct the rotation to have time moving forward again.

[Gritty]

I don't buy that explanation, because at one point, he stopped flying counter-rotation (when he reached the time he wanted), and then flew the other way as to start time flowing the other way. If he was simply traveling back through time, he could have just stopped at the correct time.

Thus, the clear implication of his flight was to indicate that he had to turn the earth's rotation the other way to turn back time, and then correct the rotation to have time moving forward again.

It was the first time he'd ever done it. He just overshot the mark, 'cuz he was going so fast, and had to go forward a little bit to get to the right time. That's how I sees it anyway.

But don't get me started on the expanding cellophane chest emblem...:rolleyes:

[mdr55]

The Rocketeer, The Shadow and the Phantom

[EliSnow]

It was the first time he'd ever done it. He just overshot the mark, 'cuz he was going so fast, and had to go forward a little bit to get to the right time. That's how I sees it anyway.

You going for a Marvel no-prize?

I don't buy it. Unless he overshot the time by days, which given how far the earth had to move forward, he didn't, he could have stopped the whole thing at the time he stopped at in some fashion.

(Right now I can't remember exactly what he did to save Lois after going back in time.

And in the Donner cut, didn't he restart the earth again?

[MadMatt]

The Rocketeer, The Shadow and the Phantom

Y'know, I didn't consider 'The Rocketeer' or 'The Shadow' as superhero movies, but I guess they would fit. The Shadow was a pulp fiction and radio hit way before being a comic, but the Rocketeer was most certainly based on a comic (although it was a well done homage to 30's-40's pulp).

Both were excellent IMO - I am a BIG fan of 'The Shadow' especially.

I was a little disappointed by 'The Phantom' - I liked Billy Zane as the Phantom, but the story was a little weak. I could have done without the 3 Mystical Skulls angle (well, 4 actually).

[MadMatt]

You going for a Marvel no-prize?

I don't buy it. Unless he overshot the time by days, which given how far the earth had to move forward, he didn't, he could have stopped the whole thing at the time he stopped at in some fashion.

(Right now I can't remember exactly what he did to save Lois after going back in time.

And in the Donner cut, didn't he restart the earth again?

Cut the guy some slack, Eli. Gritty is just trying to make lemonade out of that "lemon" of a plot device.

And can you blame him? That gimmick essentially ruined the end of the movie. Weak characters and 70's Hollywood schlock aside, spinning the Earth back in time was ridiculous. I was a kid when the movie came out and still thought it was stupid!

[TheMojoPin]

Y'know, I didn't consider 'The Rocketeer' or 'The Shadow' as superhero movies, but I guess they would fit. The Shadow was a pulp fiction and radio hit way before being a comic, but the Rocketeer was most certainly based on a comic (although it was a well done homage to 30's-40's pulp).

Both were excellent IMO - I am a BIG fan of 'The Shadow' especially.

I was a little disappointed by 'The Phantom' - I liked Billy Zane as the Phantom, but the story was a little weak. I could have done without the 3 Mystical Skulls angle (well, 4 actually).

Wow, I thought The Shadow was one of the worst adaptations of a great literary character I've ever seen. Such a let down.

[Gritty]

You going for a Marvel no-prize?

I don't buy it. Unless he overshot the time by days, which given how far the earth had to move forward, he didn't, he could have stopped the whole thing at the time he stopped at in some fashion.

(Right now I can't remember exactly what he did to save Lois after going back in time.

And in the Donner cut, didn't he restart the earth again?

He didn't do ANYTHING to save her!!! All I remember is he appears next to her car and she steps out. The earthquake either doesn't happen or he fixes it off-screen. It's also possible that he breaks his promise to Miss Teschmacher and doesn't save Hackensack first so there is no earthquake.

Not sure about the Donner version.

BTW, my friend Jeff actually won a no-prize when we were kids. Imagine his disappointment when he opened the envelope and found...

[MadMatt]

Wow, I thought The Shadow was one of the worst adaptations of a great literary character I've ever seen. Such a let down.

I agree it wasn't the best "direct" adaptation of a character, but it was a fun movie that had a retro/serial feel. For the time (mid 90's), it was a respectable attempt.

You have to suspend some fanboy disbelief, but that's a pretty small price.

[Gritty]

Wow, I thought The Shadow was one of the worst adaptations of a great literary character I've ever seen. Such a let down.

Yep, I'm with Mojo. It stinks. Alec Baldwin was the perfect choice for the role but the story blew.

The Rocketeer, however, is terrific. Almost a panel by panel recreation of the comic. Everyone's believable in their roles and Jennifer Connolly....yummy!

[MadMatt]

Yep, I'm with Mojo. It stinks. Alec Baldwin was the perfect choice for the role but the story blew.

Well, that's the last time I defend you against that pitbull Eli...


:laugh:

[mdr55]

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

[mdr55]

So Supergirl didn't make the list huh?

[Thebazile78]

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who loved The Rocketeer...maybe that's why I enjoyed the first few issues of Ex Machina ...

[furie]

V for Vendetta

[TheMojoPin]

I agree it wasn't the best "direct" adaptation of a character, but it was a fun movie that had a retro/serial feel. For the time (mid 90's), it was a respectable attempt.

You have to suspend some fanboy disbelief, but that's a pretty small price.

There's nothing "fanboy" about calling it out for screwing serious parts up. I've got no problem going for a pulpy serial feel...but if you read the old pulps or see those old films, it still was supposed to be pretty serious and badass when the Shadow showed up and started taking names. They pretty much made it too cutesy and uber-retro the entire time, even when he was doing his Shadow thing...which he barely did at all, something that's rather ridiculous in a movie called "THE SHADOW."

I really, really like The Rocketeer. The Shadow tried to be The Rocketeer. The Shadow is not the Rocketeer. To use an analaogy of a character that's actually the flipside, it would be like trying to make a Robin Hood film with a surly, silent and morose Robin Hood instead of the classic flamboyat chaacter he's known and beloved for. Oh, wait, they did do that...with Kevin Costner. And it suuuuuuuuucked.

[chubbyknuckles]

A friend and I were talking over dinner and posed to him this quandary: What is the best superhero movie?

We hit alot of the major ones and after hitting your Batmans, your Supermans, your Spidermans, Spawn, Fantastic Fours, etc., our decision came down to Batman Begins.

So I ask is this the best superhero movie ever made or is there a better one?

just reading the thread topic i said the same, Batman Begins has ben the best adaptation of a comic by far. The guy who did Ghost Rider and Daredevil will continue to murder marvel comic characters, because he has to secretly wok for dc.

[reillyluck]

I always thought Superman II was the best, until i Saw Batman Begins.

I really hope The Dark Knight stays on the same track as batman begins.

[Gvac]

A friend and I were talking over dinner and posed to him this quandary: What is the best superhero movie?



That must have been some dinner.

[chubbyknuckles]

That must have been some dinner.

Does KFC count as a sit down dinner?

[lleeder]

That must have been some dinner.

He was eatin in front of the mirror.

[TheMojoPin]

He was eatin in front of the mirror.

Wow. Top of the pyramid.

OF ETERNITY.

[EliSnow]

And can you blame him? That gimmick essentially ruined the end of the movie. Weak characters and 70's Hollywood schlock aside, spinning the Earth back in time was ridiculous. I was a kid when the movie came out and still thought it was stupid!

That's ultimately my point.

[EliSnow]

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Here's where I pull the Ron Bennington treatment, such as when he's having a serious movie conversation and someone brings up Independence Day, or when he's having a music conversation and someone brings up Rush.

[donnie_darko]

ok, why exactly isn't V for Vandetta not considered a superhero movie?

What guidelines must you fill to be a superhero?

And if V isn't considered a superhero then is punisher not considered a "superhero" either?

[IMSlacker]

Here's where I pull the Ron Bennington treatment, such as when he's having a serious movie conversation and someone brings up Independence Day, or when he's having a music conversation and someone brings up Rush.



Blankman?

[EliSnow]

ok, why exactly isn't V for Vandetta not considered a superhero movie?

What guidelines must you fill to be a superhero?

And if V isn't considered a superhero then is punisher not considered a "superhero" either?

Punisher's history in comics has interacted with other superheros.

V, while having some extraordinary powers for a human, isn't a superhero. I can't explain it any better than that. I know it's not satisfactory or completely rational. But I bet Alan Moore wouldn't characterize V as a superhero.

The closer call is the Matrix. I'm willing to call that more of a superhero movie than V for Vendetta. Both are definitely sci-fi movies sharing classic sci-fi themes.

If Matrix is a superhero movie, it's the best of all time.

[donnie_darko]

lets just throw a "in my opinion" in front of your post.....

so in your opinion, a superhero has to interact with others in comics to be a superhero.

so its not the actions the person takes...

so in effect if a superhero falls and no other superhero is around....it does in fact make no noise.

and not to be an ass, but i'm gonna say alot of people would disagree with how others classify their work....so i won't take alan moores word for it.

i see V making a transformation while being experimented on, he somehow takes control of the city's subnetwork, kills everyone associated with his prison, and somehow frees the nation.

give him a goofy shield and he'd be captain america.....ahhhh he's missing a shield!

[EliSnow]

lets just throw a "in my opinion" in front of your post.....

so in your opinion, a superhero has to interact with others in comics to be a superhero.

so its not the actions the person takes...

so in effect if a superhero falls and no other superhero is around....it does in fact make no noise.

and not to be an ass, but i'm gonna say alot of people would disagree with how others classify their work....so i won't take alan moores word for it.

i see V making a transformation while being experimented on, he somehow takes control of the city's subnetwork, kills everyone associated with his prison, and somehow frees the nation.

give him a goofy shield and he'd be captain america.....ahhhh he's missing a shield!

I admitted my answer was not satisfactory or completely rational. And I think the phrase "in my opinion" is implied in virtually 90% of the post on this board.

V for Vendetta just doesn't feel like a superhero movie to me.

As for how Alan Moore classifies his work, the only reason I bring it up, is that I think Alan Moore knows more about storytelling genres, than any person alive.

Of course, I don't know at all how Alan Moore classifies V. It's just my opinion.

[mdr55]

Here's where I pull the Ron Bennington treatment, such as when he's having a serious movie conversation and someone brings up Independence Day, or when he's having a music conversation and someone brings up Rush.



Why wouldn't the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen be considered "superheroes"? Aren't they kinda like the X-men without all the glitter and what not? Each of them has an extraordinary skill/superpower.

[donnie_darko]

dude. everyone but you knows how much the league BLEW

i've always wondered where unbreakable would've gone if it didn't tank so badly, would be perfect for graphic novel treatment.

and eli I only said that because you were speaking as the authority, and this being the internet you never know who the other person is, so it was possible you were speaking with some inside knowledge, all i know you could be stan lee *l*

[Sevenyears]

2 words Adrienne Barbeau

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYwD4c9UFw

[EliSnow]

Why wouldn't the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen be considered "superheroes"? Aren't they kinda like the X-men without all the glitter and what not? Each of them has an extraordinary skill/superpower.

My objection wasn't about them being superheroes (although I think an argument could be made about that). It was because it wasn't a good movie.

[EliSnow]

and eli I only said that because you were speaking as the authority, and this being the internet you never know who the other person is, so it was possible you were speaking with some inside knowledge, all i know you could be stan lee *l*

I think that's how I sound all the time. No inside knowledge here. Just my opinion.

[Sevenyears]

I liked this too, But I never understood why he drank jelly beans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAa375C_FOA

[furie]

ok, why exactly isn't V for Vandetta not considered a superhero movie?

Wow, seriously?

[JustJon]

That must have been some dinner.

We started talking about 2008 movies, which brought up a Dark Knight discussion, which in turn asked the question best superhero movie.

[thepaulo]

I hear Iron Man is crashing Superbowl Sunday.

[Justice4all]

V, while having some extraordinary powers for a human, isn't a superhero. I can't explain it any better than that. I know it's not satisfactory or completely rational.


I disagree about V not being a superhero.
He had all of the qualities that make most of the super hero's what they are.
He had to go up against adversity and had major hardships that most people would or could not imagine, and then was thrust into an extrodinary set of events that wound up giving him extra powers (be it his strength or skill with the blades or whatnot).

V was an amazing comic book and also one of the best movies I have seen in the last few years.
I still stand by my original statement about Batman Begins but I feel like an idiot for forgetting about V.

I think V was a great super hero. He was human (like Spidey or Batman) wore a costume to hide his identity and faced off against insurmountable odds and eventually his life for the greater good to triumph over evil.


How is that NOT a super-hero?

[Gritty]

I disagree about V not being a superhero.
He had all of the qualities that make most of the super hero's what they are.
He had to go up against adversity and had major hardships that most people would or could not imagine, and then was thrust into an extrodinary set of events that wound up giving him extra powers (be it his strength or skill with the blades or whatnot).

V was an amazing comic book and also one of the best movies I have seen in the last few years.
I still stand by my original statement about Batman Begins but I feel like an idiot for forgetting about V.

I think V was a great super hero. He was human (like Spidey or Batman) wore a costume to hide his identity and faced off against insurmountable odds and eventually his life for the greater good to triumph over evil.


How is that NOT a super-hero?

Because he kills.

Old school rule, I know, but along with the tights and mask it's what I use as a guideline. You can stretch it to allow for the occasional "no other choice and it will haunt me forever" situation but not for someone who kills regularly.

Black Adam is a good example - hero in the JSA right up to the second he starting ripping people in two.

Soldiers like Sgt. Rock and the like (secret agents and spy's) who kill as part of their jobs can still be heroes -- just not super-heroes.

Just one man's opinion.

[Justice4all]

Because he kills.

Old school rule, I know, but along with the tights and mask it's what I use as a guideline. You can stretch it to allow for the occasional "no other choice and it will haunt me forever" situation but not for someone who kills regularly.

Black Adam is a good example - hero in the JSA right up to the second he starting ripping people in two.

Soldiers like Sgt. Rock and the like (secret agents and spy's) who kill as part of their jobs can still be heroes -- just not super-heroes.

Just one man's opinion.

No no....that is a very valid reason why you would not think he is a super hero.
But there have been super heros who have killed. Namor, for one. While he was one of the Invaders, to fight off the Nazi's.
Collossus has killed before.

And let's not forget our favorite Bad-ass in Yellow and Blue....Wolverine...he has killed more then V ever did...and I sure would call him a Super Hero....so why NOT V then?

[ScottFromGA]

watching it right now....

The Incredibles. I know its like the Fantastic 4, but cooler in my opinion.

Coolest Pixar/Disney movie EVARRRR

[Gritty]

No no....that is a very valid reason why you would not think he is a super hero.
But there have been super heros who have killed. Namor, for one. While he was one of the Invaders, to fight off the Nazi's.
Collossus has killed before.

And let's not forget our favorite Bad-ass in Yellow and Blue....Wolverine...he has killed more then V ever did...and I sure would call him a Super Hero....so why NOT V then?

Oh, I know it happens but I'd say it's the exception rather than the rule. I'd throw anything done during a war into soldier category. Not sure about the circumstances involving Colossus but it would probably fall under 'no other choice'.

Tougher to make a case for Wolverine I have to admit but even here I'd say he kills as a last resort, maims frequently, and will use a good old right to the chin most of the time. I'd throw any of the killing done before he put on the spandex under either spy or soldier.

V's fighting a war. He's either a freedom fighter/terrorist or hero/villain depending on your POV. But not a super-hero, IMO.

[kdubya]

I am with you on Dunst. I don't think she makes a good Mary Jane. Mary Jane is supposed to be a super model, Dunst is too girl next door.

I would have to go with X-men 2 as the best super hero movie. I would put Batman Begins in 2nd and Spiderman in 3rd.

I am not an X-men fan in the comic world but I really liked the 2nd movie. I thought the action and charectors really moved things along and made for a fun ride. It's not very true to form as far as the comic but thats OK.

Batman Begins loses first simply because I am such a fan of the comic book that I don't think any movie could really win me over. I would love to see Rami try and make a Long Halloween movie.

Spiderman was just a fun movie but techno-goblin just didn't do it for me.

I think Unbreakable would be in my top three if it wasn't for the last 5 minutes or so. If they had ended it with Bruce Willis and his kid at the kitchen table it would have been awesome.

I didn't like Spider-Man overall because of the problems I had with Maguire and Dunst in the lead roles.

X-2 was good and a marked improvement over the first one.

Does Unbreakable count? If so, I'd like to put that up there.

[kdubya]

Because he kills.

Old school rule, I know, but along with the tights and mask it's what I use as a guideline. You can stretch it to allow for the occasional "no other choice and it will haunt me forever" situation but not for someone who kills regularly.

Black Adam is a good example - hero in the JSA right up to the second he starting ripping people in two.

Soldiers like Sgt. Rock and the like (secret agents and spy's) who kill as part of their jobs can still be heroes -- just not super-heroes.

Just one man's opinion.

By that definition wouldn't that take the X-men movies out of the running. Wolverine must kill 15 soldiers in the 2nd movie.

[TheMojoPin]

I am with you on Dunst. I don't think she makes a good Mary Jane. Mary Jane is supposed to be a super model, Dunst is too girl next door.

She wasn't a "super model" until the late 80's when the Spider-Man books went down the toilet. Until then, she was literally the girl next door.

Dunst is just hideous in any role.

[Gritty]

By that definition wouldn't that take the X-men movies out of the running. Wolverine must kill 15 soldiers in the 2nd movie.

He does, but the rest of the X-men don't. He's the exception not the rule. As I said, it's tough to make a case for Wolverine and there are no absolutes here. You can make the argument that he's a soldier/spy trying to be a superhero or again stretch it to be a war situation, kill or be killed.

Let's face it, his origin makes him a lethal weapon. Before joining the X-Men he would kill without remorse. After joining, he's tried to get his act together and live by the 'old school' rules, including the costume.

[chubbyknuckles]

well, we have tons of comic movies coming to def be hyped about. Whether they deliver or not is the real ?, Wanted, Iron Man, Hulk, Wolverine, Batman, etc, tons of cool shit, Batman should rock, but i'm not sure about wanted ...yet

[Gritty]

well, we have tons of comic movies coming to def be hyped about. Whether they deliver or not is the real ?, Wanted, Iron Man, Hulk, Wolverine, Batman, etc, tons of cool shit, Batman should rock, but i'm not sure about wanted ...yet

Saw the ads for Wanted and Iron Man. I think Wanted might be a good movie, but too far removed from the comic. Iron Man looks great and seems like it's staying true to the source. It's going to be a great year for comic book movies. Sorry, Ronnie!

[TheMojoPin]

Saw the ads for Wanted and Iron Man. I think Wanted might be a good movie, but too far removed from the comic. Iron Man looks great and seems like it's staying true to the source. It's going to be a great year for comic book movies. Sorry, Ronnie!

Yeah, Wanted has totally removed the superhero/supervillan aspect. In the book, a guy discovers that supervillains actualy run the entire world and have wiped out all of the superheros and his father is possibly the deadliest supervillain ever. The movie is about a secert cabal of hitmen who are maor behind the scenes players, and this dude finds out his dad was the best. Same general story, but all the "super" parts are gone.

[ToLEEdo]

Yeah, Wanted has totally removed the superhero/supervillan aspect. In the book, a guy discovers that supervillains actualy run the entire world and have wiped out all of the superheros and his father is possibly the deadliest supervillain ever. The movie is about a secert cabal of hitmen who are maor behind the scenes players, and this dude finds out his dad was the best. Same general story, but all the "super" parts are gone.

Looks like a really badass movie either way though.

[EliSnow]

Yeah, Wanted has totally removed the superhero/supervillan aspect. In the book, a guy discovers that supervillains actualy run the entire world and have wiped out all of the superheros and his father is possibly the deadliest supervillain ever. The movie is about a secert cabal of hitmen who are maor behind the scenes players, and this dude finds out his dad was the best. Same general story, but all the "super" parts are gone.

I'm sorry, but half the fun of the book was the supervillains since they were based on the DC supervillains and the premise that they beat the superheroes.

Without that, it's just another movie, I think.

I understand why they can't use the supervillains aspect, but I think the movie won't be what it could have been.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm sorry, but half the fun of the book was the supervillains since they were based on the DC supervillains and the premise that they beat the superheroes.

Without that, it's just another movie, I think.

Pretty much. I think it looks totally mundane.

[realmenhatelife]

Wanted doesn't hold up as a book at all- it's got a really dated gen x snarkiness that comes across as totally annoying now. I always had trouble with the lead announcing that he had raped a chick and we're supposed to still be like 'Yeah dude, stick it to the squares'
But yeah without that aspect this movie is really generic. Even with that aspect I think it missed its chance to be good, we've got a ton of antihero movies already. I think the next big thing is, and should, be movies that take place in that superhero world without the plot hinging on the actions of one hero/villian. Watchmen is coming up, I think Powers, Invincible, Rising Stars, Ex Machina, Planetary, Lucifer, the authority and a bunch of others could get tapped.

[Thebazile78]

watching it right now....

The Incredibles. I know its like the Fantastic 4, but cooler in my opinion.

Coolest Pixar/Disney movie EVARRRR

Brad Bird is one of the biggest fanboys out there. He's hilarious.

That said, I also loved The Incredibles. My sister hated it and my husband was ... tolerant of it.

Personally, I saw it as a fanboy letter to every superhero ever created, despite the obvious parallels to Fantastic Four. It was also a great "what if" type of storyline and those are always my favorites. (I know Jon, you mentioned it in the "post more about comic books" thread, DC calls them Elseworlds (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65562&page=13))

[MadMatt]

"Hancock" looks like it could be interesting, although I haven't seen enough to really commit.

It is definitely a unique take, but "My Super Ex-Girlfriend" was a unique take too. :dry:

[EliSnow]

(I know Jon, you mentioned it in the "post more about comic books" thread, DC calls them Elseworlds (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65562&page=13))

Back in the old days, they called them "Imaginary Stories." Like when they wanted to see Superman split into Superman Red and Superman Blue, and what would happen to them, they would do an "Imaginary Story" outside of the regular continuity.

The last official "Imaginary Story" - "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow."

Truthfully, Elseworlds are a little different animal than "what ifs." What if's look at what would happen if the official Marvel stories went another way ("What If Aunt May Died, and Uncle Ben Lived.") For the most parts, Elseworlds set their established characters in different eras or genres. Like if Superman crash-landed in 1700's England or 1920's Soviet Union, rather than Kansas. Or what if Batman lived in 1890's London, etc.

[Justice4all]

She wasn't a "super model" until the late 80's when the Spider-Man books went down the toilet. Until then, she was literally the girl next door.

Dunst is just hideous in any role.

sorry Mojo, even during high school MJ was supposed to be this knockout-looking gal. Not the girl-next-door type. She always had guys falling all over her. She even dated the captain of the football team (Flash Thompson). And I am not talking just the movie either.

I have to agree that Kirsten Dunst was not a good choice.
Had Lindsey Lohan NOT hit the wall with such great speed and kept her semi-curvy figure and her red hair...SHE would have made a better MJ for the first movie and on.



Back in the old days, they called them "Imaginary Stories." Like when they wanted to see Superman split into Superman Red and Superman Blue, and what would happen to them, they would do an "Imaginary Story" outside of the regular continuity.

The last official "Imaginary Story" - "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow."

Truthfully, Elseworlds are a little different animal than "what ifs." What if's look at what would happen if the official Marvel stories went another way ("What If Aunt May Died, and Uncle Ben Lived.") For the most parts, Elseworlds set their established characters in different eras or genres. Like if Superman crash-landed in 1700's England or 1920's Soviet Union, rather than Kansas. Or what if Batman lived in 1890's London, etc.


I loved those Elseworlds. I enjoyed the What Ifs but the Elseworlds were more creative I thought. Plus the artwork was better on them.
I have a few like Batman vs. Dracula. Or the one where Superman landed in fuedal England and was raised a peasent.
I also enjoyed when DC and Darkhorse comics merged storylines with Batman vs. Predator and Superman vs. Aliens. Those were not bad reading also.
Who knows...maybe someday they will create those on the big screen,


And did anyone else read how the writers strike caused the shutdown for the Justice League movie?

[TheMojoPin]

sorry Mojo, even during high school MJ was supposed to be this knockout-looking gal. Not the girl-next-door type. She always had guys falling all over her. She even dated the captain of the football team (Flash Thompson). And I am not talking just the movie either.

I have to agree that Kirsten Dunst was not a good choice.
Had Lindsey Lohan NOT hit the wall with such great speed and kept her semi-curvy figure and her red hair...SHE would have made a better MJ for the first movie and on.

Again, MJ is literally the girl next door.

Yes, she was always portrayed as being very attractive, but that "super model" crap didn't crop up until the 80's when she had aready been all but written out of the titles years prior. She aso didn't show up until Peter and co. were out of high school.

She was never presented as being some kind of insanely hot super model back in the day. There's a difference between "knockout" and "let's have Peter Parker marry an internationally famous model." If anything, Gwen was always supposed to be THE one. I think using MJ at all like they did in the films was just a mistake. Yeah, she's better written in the Ultimate title, but that's offset by how shittily Bendis portrayed Gwen. Gwen was always the better character...MJ was just a flighty love interest to complicate things in their social circle, but she was rarely portrayed as more than one dimensional until Marvel decided Peter had to get married and she was hastily re-written back into the titles as a character she really never was in the years prior.

[Thebazile78]

Back in the old days, they called them "Imaginary Stories." Like when they wanted to see Superman split into Superman Red and Superman Blue, and what would happen to them, they would do an "Imaginary Story" outside of the regular continuity.

The last official "Imaginary Story" - "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow."

Truthfully, Elseworlds are a little different animal than "what ifs." What if's look at what would happen if the official Marvel stories went another way ("What If Aunt May Died, and Uncle Ben Lived.") For the most parts, Elseworlds set their established characters in different eras or genres. Like if Superman crash-landed in 1700's England or 1920's Soviet Union, rather than Kansas. Or what if Batman lived in 1890's London, etc.

OK, that's the difference...makes perfect sense to me.

I know what the imaginary stories were...Dad used to have a ton of those from the '60s. I must have read all of them a million times, until he realized that I hadn't washed my hands yet.

One of his favorites was an imaginary story that had Superman being found by criminals instead of the Kents...he would talk about that one for hours.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Again, MJ is literally the girl next door.

Yes, she was always portrayed as being very attractive, but that "super model" crap didn't crop up until the 80's when she had aready been all but written out of the titles years prior. She aso didn't show up until Peter and co. were out of high school.

She was never presented as being some kind of insanely hot super model back in the day. There's a difference between "knockout" and "let's have Peter Parker marry an internationally famous model." If anything, Gwen was always supposed to be THE one. I think using MJ at all like they did in the films was just a mistake. Yeah, she's better written in the Ultimate title, but that's offset by how shittily Bendis portrayed Gwen. Gwen was always the better character...MJ was just a flighty love interest to complicate things in their social circle, but she was rarely portrayed as more than one dimensional until Marvel decided Peter had to get married and she was hastily re-written back into the titles as a character she really never was in the years prior.

What were MJ's first words?

"Face it Tiger, you just hit the jackpot."

Right. A girl next door says that, not a fucking hottie that would be LIGHTYEARS out of Parker's league.

Gwen is the girl next door with a weak neck. MJ was the 10.

[TheMojoPin]

What were MJ's first words?

"Face it Tiger, you just hit the jackpot."

Right. A girl next door says that, not a fucking hottie that would be LIGHTYEARS out of Parker's league.

Gwen is the girl next door with a weak neck. MJ was the 10.

I didn't say she wasn't supposed to be really attractive. She clearly is, and the line reflects that, but more the fact that it was a running joke for a while that Aunt May had been trying to set Peter up with the niece of her friend next door, and Peter had assumed that anyone Aunt May wanted him dating was probably pretty homely, to say the least.

At that point, MJ was not at all out of Peter's league. He had been dating Gwen, who was portrayed the same way...a knockout that pretty much any guy wanted. The main difference is that MJ was portrayed as the vapid party girl who pretty much existed in the series to cause romantic entanglements, and not much else. Gwen was the one who was given more of a personality and was clearly the character Peter wanted to be with, and should have been with. After Gwen's death, they wrote MJ as the rebound girl, but she was all but written out shortly after because seemingly nobdy really cared about the character and there wasn't much to her at all.

Look, the whole "nerd does good" thing is entertaining, but having Peter Parker marry a fucking supermodel out of the blue easily rates as one of the worst editorial and creative decisions in comics ever. They way just wrote her out is almost as bad.

And again, MJ is literally the girl next door. This statement is not false.

[high fly]

Best superhero movie is still the original Batman with Adam West.....