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Sheeplovr
01-07-2008, 06:10 AM
hahahahahahah
this J. Michael Straczynski is hillariou in refrence to something in the spiderman one more day story he wrote

hahah

this is way to comic nerdy isnt it?

EliSnow
01-07-2008, 06:26 AM
hahahahahahah
this J. Michael Straczynski is hillariou in refrence to something in the spiderman one more day story he wrote

hahah

this is way to comic nerdy isnt it?

No such thing as too comic nerdy. Well, maybe there is, but who cares.

Here's (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756) what Sheepy is referring to.

I read this and Quesada's side of the story. Truthfully, I don't think JMS' idea (which would have rewritten Spidey history back even further) would have worked either because the effects Spidey's life has on the Marvel universe.

Truthfully, if they wanted to end the marriage, they should have found a more realistic way to do so. The whole thing is shit.

Also, I think there's a thread on One More Day already.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 06:28 AM
I think they change everything in the future. There is no way they erase 20 years of spiderman history for this, and it also changes alot of marvel history that deals with other comic books and story lines.

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 08:33 AM
This is easily Quesada's dumbest idea thus far, and that's saying something.

You want him not to be married? OK, he gets divorced and MJ moves away. Boom, done. I was not a fan of the "married era" at all, but erasing it like this is just stupid and poinless.

JustJon
01-07-2008, 09:34 AM
This is easily Quesada's dumbest idea thus far, and that's saying something.

You want him not to be married? OK, he gets divorced and MJ moves away. Boom, done. I was not a fan of the "married era" at all, but erasing it like this is just stupid and poinless.

You have to dig up Quesada's interviews from the last 3 years or so that mention Pete and MJ's marraige. Basically, them dating and whatnot is fine, but having him get married fundamentally changes the character. And Pete couldn't just divorce MJ because it's out of character for Pete and again fundamentally changes the character again.

Ultimately, Quesada was looking for any way he could possibly retcon the wedding for years now.

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 09:47 AM
You have to dig up Quesada's interviews from the last 3 years or so that mention Pete and MJ's marraige. Basically, them dating and whatnot is fine, but having him get married fundamentally changes the character. And Pete couldn't just divorce MJ because it's out of character for Pete and again fundamentally changes the character again.

Ultimately, Quesada was looking for any way he could possibly retcon the wedding for years now.

Look, I'm always gonna agree the wedding was a shitty idea. It came out of nowhere when MJ had been out of the title for years ad it was done strictly as asales push to tie in with Stan Lee's Spidey newspaper strip, which was totally seperate and where Peter and MJ had been datin for a long time. MJ had never been presented in the actual comic books as a really viable option for a long term relationship, and had basically been written out as such.

Like it or not, however, the marriage has been around for 20 years (or roughly 5 years in "Marvel time"), so it should be dealt wih as such. Total wipes where huge chunks of continuity are removed for individual characters never, never, NEVER works (hi, Hawkman!). Unless it's done on a sweeping, grand level a la the original Crisis, it only causes more problems than it fixes, especially with a flagship character like Spider-man.

Besides, if Peter pushing the divorce is "out of character," hell, that's easily solved...have MJ push for the whole thing. It's so easy to fix this wihout the absurd lengths they've gone to.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 09:50 AM
Look, I'm always gonna agree the wedding was a shitty idea. It came out of nowhere when MJ had been out of the title for years ad it was done strictly as asales push to tie in with Stan Lee's Spidey newspaper strip, which was totally seperate and where Peter and MJ had been datin for a long time. MJ had never been presented in the actual comic books as a really viable option for a long term relationship, and had basically been written out as such.

Like it or not, however, the marriage has been around for 20 years (or roughly 5 years in "Marvel time"), so it should be dealt wih as such. Total wipes where huge chunks of continuity are removed for individual characters never, never, NEVER works (hi, Hawkman!). Unless it's done on a sweeping, grand level a la the original Crisis, it only causes more problems than it fixes, especially with a flagship character like Spider-man.

Besides, if Peter pushing the divorce is "out of character," hell, that's easily solved...have MJ push for the whole thing. It's so easy to fix this wihout the absurd lengths they've gone to.

kill them both. All problems are solved.

EliSnow
01-07-2008, 09:54 AM
kill them both. All problems are solved.

Truthfully, killing MJ would have been the best way to end the marriage.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 09:59 AM
Truthfully, killing MJ would have been the best way to end the marriage.

I was joking in my previous post but you are absolutely right. The only problem with that is that no one ever dies in the comic book universe. Which is a shame because they have to stop bringing back characters once they are dead.

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 10:03 AM
I was joking in my previous post but you are absolutely right. The only problem with that is that no one ever dies in the comic book universe. Which is a shame because they have to stop bringing back characters once they are dead.

Actually, it's the egg before the chicken...want to stop stupid resurrections? Stop stupid comic book deaths in the first place.

I like a lot of Quesada's decisions as EiC, but I really wish we could somehow merge his braado with Jim Shooter's respect for the characters and continuity. Say want you want about Shooter, he had some MASSIVE flaws, but he ran a tight ship. And everything was ALWAYS released on time.

JustJon
01-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Truthfully, killing MJ would have been the best way to end the marriage.

I was never a big MJ fan. I'm all for killing her.

I was joking in my previous post but you are absolutely right. The only problem with that is that no one ever dies in the comic book universe. Which is a shame because they have to stop bringing back characters once they are dead.

Thankfully, Gwen Stacy - still dead. (Not counting lame Gwen Stacy robots, children, etc.)

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 10:21 AM
As much as I can't stand MJ married to Peter, I really wouldn't want to see her killed. Again, prevent stupid comic book resurrections by preventing stupid comic book deaths...one of the strengths of the classic decades of Spider-man comics was the strength of his supporting cast, MJ included back in the day.

Now look at things...Harry Osborn, dead. Gwen, dead. Liz Allen? Who knows? Black Cat is never around. Flash Thompson...well, I don't know, but he hasn't been around in a while, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was dead. He might as well be dead.

Betty Brant, same deal...probably alive, but all but gone. Her brother and husband were killed, and her husband, Ned Leeds, had been a strong supporting character who was randomly killed off when he was nonsensically shown to be the Hobgoblin after the Hobgoblin's creator, Roger Stern, was kicked off the title and nobody knew what his plan was. Hell, look how may Daily Bugle staff members have been killed off over the years for cheap shocks.

Killing more characters simply is not the answer. It only does harm and adds little to nothing in the long run.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 10:21 AM
should have killed MJ in the movie as well once they got snaggle tooth to play the character.

I was never a fan of MJ she pissed me off so much in the comics.

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 10:24 AM
should have killed MJ in the movie as well once they got snaggle tooth to play the character.

I was never a fan of MJ she pissed me off so much in the comics.

Ironically, I really like the Ultimate version of her, and in theory I really like the movie version...just not the hideous actress playing her.

Basically, her character was all wrong to turn into wifey dearest. Her role was always as the flighty party chick that acted as a romantic foil or complication and nothing more.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Ironically, I really like the Ultimate version of her, and in theory I really like the movie version...just not the hideous actress playing her.

Basically, her character was all wrong to turn into wifey dearest. Her role was always as the flighty party chick that acted as a romantic foil or complication and nothing more.

her always calling Peter, Tiger, for some reason really bothered me. Then when the ugly actress called him that it just sealed the deal for me that she is horrible.

That post you posted in the other thread that leads to the full explanation of their marriage is spot on, it is completely ridiculous.

They never should have been married but they were and Marvel could have done a better job ending the marriage.

EliSnow
01-07-2008, 10:30 AM
Now look at things...Harry Osborn, dead. Gwen, dead. Liz Allen? Who knows? Black Cat is never around. Flash Thompson...well, I don't know, but he hasn't been around in a while, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was dead. He might as well be dead.

Flash is alive and was a coach at the school that Peter was teaching at. No, I think becasue of all of the "Events" going on, they haven't shown him teaching there for like two years our time.

chubbyknuckles
01-07-2008, 10:55 AM
I know all the comic sites have multiple part interviews about this storyline. I haven't read an issue as I'm TPB whore, but Quesada's art looks sick, he's sooo f';n good its scary. But enough with spider-man and these "change him forever" storylines. Give me a good mystery of just something new for fuck's sake!

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Flash is alive and was a coach at the school that Peter was teaching at. No, I think becasue of all of the "Events" going on, they haven't shown him teaching there for like two years our time.

Still, like I said, even though some of the old supporting cast isn't dead, they might as well be. I'm not saying these titles need to be static, but if you're going to move on from certain chaacters, at least replace some of them. For the last 15 years or so, it's like Peter and MJ and Aunt May were unto their own little world, and I think that went a long way to REALLY hurting the titles.

Hell, I'll even say the blasphemous...the clone storyline was awful, but in the end, I think Ben Reilly was a really well done and likeable character...the best supporting character any of the Spider-man series have come up with in a good 20 years. And he ended up being someone they had to kill off.

Typical.

Knowledged_one
01-07-2008, 11:02 AM
flash was involved with Ms. Aro in one of the titles during the Mysterio invasion with 3 different mysterios

EliSnow
01-07-2008, 11:03 AM
Still, like I said, even though some of the old supporting cast isn't dead, they might as well be. I'm not saying these titles need to be static, but if you're going to move on from certain chaacters, at least replace some of them. For the last 15 years or so, it's like Peter and MJ and Aunt May were unto their own little world, and I think that went a long way to REALLY hurting the titles.

Hell, I'll even say the blasphemous...the clone storyline was awful, but in the end, I think Ben Reilly was a really well done and likeable character...the best supporting character any of the Spider-man series have come up with in a good 20 years. And he ended up being someone they had to kill off.

Typical.

One of the things they are trying to do with the "A Brand New Day" storyline is to create a larger supporting cast for Peter. I'm not sure of all of the details, but they have a new love interest or two, some work people at the Bugle, etc.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 11:04 AM
Still, like I said, even though some of the old supporting cast isn't dead, they might as well be. I'm not saying these titles need to be static, but if you're going to move on from certain chaacters, at least replace some of them. For the last 15 years or so, it's like Peter and MJ and Aunt May were unto their own little world, and I think that went a long way to REALLY hurting the titles.

Hell, I'll even say the blasphemous...the clone storyline was awful, but in the end, I think Ben Reilly was a really well done and likeable character...the best supporting character any of the Spider-man series have come up with in a good 20 years. And he ended up being someone they had to kill off.

Typical.

Scarlet Spider Man rules!

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 11:15 AM
One of the things they are trying to do with the "A Brand New Day" storyline is to create a larger supporting cast for Peter. I'm not sure of all of the details, but they have a new love interest or two, some work people at the Bugle, etc.

I understand that, but the context for all of those changes can't escape the suck.

Tall_James
01-07-2008, 11:19 AM
From this week's Amazing Spiderman #546, Marvel has released this image (http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/BND/StatusQuo.html) which establishes the new status quo for Peter Parker.

TheMojoPin
01-07-2008, 11:58 AM
Ech.

This reeks of when they tried to the Iron Man re-vamp in the 90's.

It was a disaster.

Knowledged_one
01-07-2008, 12:00 PM
They should just have the Black Cat cut her head off

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 12:02 PM
so Gwen is back to being alive??

It is true they bring back everyone.

EliSnow
01-07-2008, 12:09 PM
so Gwen is back to being alive??

It is true they bring back everyone.

No, she's still dead.

PhishHead
01-07-2008, 01:30 PM
No, she's still dead.

Oh okay I couldnt read the writing at work for some reason the picture wouldnt expand but I recognized her picture.

DarkHippie
01-07-2008, 03:37 PM
No, she's still dead.

She'll be back.

Remember the Bucky Law, that every one comes back from the dead except Bucky, Gwen, and Jason Todd? Two of them are back, just one left :(

EliSnow
01-08-2008, 05:57 AM
She'll be back.

Remember the Bucky Law, that every one comes back from the dead except Bucky, Gwen, and Jason Todd? Two of them are back, just one left :(

I thought the Bucky law was limited to Bucky and Uncle Ben.

But I don't see Gwen coming back for the same reasons that I don't see Uncle Ben come back. The deaths of these two have had profound effects on Peter's mythos and making him the man/hero he is.

Bucky's death was big for Captain America, but not as big as Gwen's was for Peter.

And Jason Todd, similarly.

TheMojoPin
01-08-2008, 08:19 AM
I thought the Bucky law was limited to Bucky and Uncle Ben.

But I don't see Gwen coming back for the same reasons that I don't see Uncle Ben come back. The deaths of these two have had profound effects on Peter's mythos and making him the man/hero he is.

Bucky's death was big for Captain America, but not as big as Gwen's was for Peter.

And Jason Todd, similarly.

Gotta disagree with Jason Todd's death not having as much as an impact.

That event has shaped a good 75% of all Batman stories in the last 20+ years.

Though you're right with Bucky...that was more of a symbolic thing the just focalized Cap's general alienation and mourning waking up decades after the life he knew. Since the timline of the Marvel Universe is always moving forward (it's roughly 10-12 years "old," meaning Cap now woke up in the 90's), Bucky's death became even more meaningless since almost everyone he would have known would be dead by the time he woke up. When he first came back in the 60's, Bucky was needed for more of a impact since he was coming back only 20 years at the most from when he was frozen, so plenty of family an friends would still be aive and kicking.

EliSnow
01-08-2008, 09:01 AM
Gotta disagree with Jason Todd's death not having as much as an impact.

That event has shaped a good 75% of all Batman stories in the last 20+ years.



Well, Jason Todd died almost 20 years ago. And while his death did greatly impact Batman stories since, Batman was around a good 40 year before that. It had a huge impact, but in comparison to Gwen Stacy and Spidey, I don't think as much.

Plus, given that it was DC's decsion to change Batman from how he has been portrayed for the last 20 years (the Dark Knight) to something more like he was in the '70's and early '80's, reversing Jason Todd's death really was one change of many, and indeed, may have been necessary to make Batman's change believable.

JustJon
01-08-2008, 09:22 AM
I think the big problem with Jason was no one really liked him. Fans never latched on to him the way they did other characters. If it was Dick that got killed, the impact would have been massive, instead they got rid of a character that most people didn't care for, but did have an impact on the Bat himself.

EliSnow
01-08-2008, 09:29 AM
Newsarama reviews "A Brand New Day" (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142355) and finds it wanting.

TheMojoPin
01-08-2008, 06:09 PM
I think the big problem with Jason was no one really liked him. Fans never latched on to him the way they did other characters. If it was Dick that got killed, the impact would have been massive, instead they got rid of a character that most people didn't care for, but did have an impact on the Bat himself.

Yeah, but most of the attention it got was from people who thought it was the same Robin who then stated reading the funnybooks again.

I just don't see how Jason's death can't be viewed as influential when it's been the go-to dramatic crutch for almost every single Bat-writer since then. And it's kind of a cheat to stack up the last 20 years aganst the previous 40 years when the previous 40 years is all but ignored now since the first Crisis. The first 40 years basically meant dick to the last 20+, and all the new readers since them likely weigh Jason's impact even more than Grayson's.

JustJon
01-09-2008, 06:43 AM
The first 40 years basically meant dick to the last 20+, and all the new readers since them likely weigh Jason's impact even more than Grayson's.

They almost killed Dick in the last Crisis, but at the last moment changed their minds. Considering the way nothing that really left a lasting impact in reader's minds (as opposed to a punch that impacted the universe), Dick's death wouldn't have had the gravity of Barry's death in the first Crisis.

GvacMobile
01-09-2008, 07:17 AM
Interestingly enough, the title of this thread is exactly how the nuns in my elementary Catholic school answered all of my theological questions.

chubbyknuckles
01-09-2008, 07:20 AM
hahahahahahah
this J. Michael Straczynski is hillariou in refrence to something in the spiderman one more day story he wrote

hahah

this is way to comic nerdy isnt it?

i was just on another site looking at the way that story line ended and ran over here to see if you had posted. I would never buy another spider-man book again. They ruin him, and waste people's fucking money. Ok so here's a few months worth of your time, and some bucks outta your wallet for us to completely IGNORE what we made you read and spend cash on, fuck them:furious:, thats bullshit!

furie
01-09-2008, 02:15 PM
I don't see who anyone could read spider-man after the Ben "The Scarlet Spider" Reilly and the maximum clonage storylines. :wallbash:

furie
01-09-2008, 02:17 PM
wait, is Jason Todd back?!

TheMojoPin
01-09-2008, 02:25 PM
wait, is Jason Todd back?!

Yeah, and it sucks. The suckiness is especially highlighted by it happening roughly at the same time as Ed Brubacker bringing back Bucky and actualy making it awesome and brilliant. Judd Winick made Jason Todd alive again by having ye olde Superboy go nuts and punch a "cosmic wall" in the dimension he was trapped in, the "ripples" of those impacts causing screwy chages in the "real" DC Universe. And he comes back basically as the Punisher with a red helmet. Weak-fuckin'-sauce.

TheMojoPin
01-09-2008, 02:26 PM
I don't see who anyone could read spider-man after the Ben "The Scarlet Spider" Reilly and the maximum clonage storylines. :wallbash:

Ben Reilly was and is one of the best Spider-Man chaacters of all time. Yeah, the storyline around him was a shitty mess, but he was really likeable and well-written. It sucked they killed him off.

ToLEEdo
01-10-2008, 03:20 PM
Yeah, I just read the whole One More Day thing. Weakzilla. First off I don't think the logical choice for Peter would be to pick Aunt May or to go along with a unknown decision of you're failing actress wife. What was wrong with the Spiderman is current titles.

Now this fucks with my true identity of Spiderman in New Avengers, so that they know he isn't a Skrull. What they go from we know everyone to we know everyone except Spidey. How bout they mess with a weak series and in turn mess up my sweet Bendis novel.

p.s. when does the next comic about Zeus having sex with inanimate objects come out Sheepy. I liked the first one but I don't remember the title.

ToddEVF
01-10-2008, 04:14 PM
Truthfully, killing MJ would have been the best way to end the marriage.

Or we could kill Peter Parker :-D Sorry, i'm still a little angered by spiderman.

How about having him fall into the atlantic but because of his superhuman abilities he gets frozen into a block of ice. . . wait that was someone else.

I understand spiderman is very popular, but i think its about time this spider gets squashed.

furie
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
sometimes i'm sorry i stopped reading comics and i think about getting back in. then i read shit like this and i'm so glad i punched out when i did.

ToLEEdo
01-12-2008, 05:37 AM
sometimes i'm sorry i stopped reading comics and i think about getting back in. then i read shit like this and i'm so glad i punched out when i did.

Just don't put any of your faith into Marvel or DC and you'll be fine.

DarkHippie
01-12-2008, 08:47 AM
Its ok, if the readers don't like it Dr. Strange will fix it. Or maybe they'll or be skrulls. Or a pocket dimension . . .

silas
01-12-2008, 11:47 AM
her always calling Peter, Tiger, for some reason really bothered me.


Yeah, Stan the Man trying to be groovy is better off left in the 60's.


Signed - an actual college student who reads your fine periodicals. MMMS!

ToddEVF
01-12-2008, 02:06 PM
Its ok, if the readers don't like it Dr. Strange will fix it. Or maybe they'll or be skrulls. Or a pocket dimension . . .

The Skrull thing I can understand happening, but I have always been partial to the Sorcerer Supreme

MadMatt
01-12-2008, 05:15 PM
I am SO tired of Marvel pulling this type of s@#$. It is one of the things that makes me feel better about going cold-turkey in 2001. If I read regularly I would be pissed enough to kill somebody at this point. :furious:

So, what are Spidey's powers now? Apparently he lost the biological web shooters, but what other 'new' powers did he loose? And does Peter still have contacts like Tony Stark and Dr. Strange? Is he still part of the Avengers?

WTF?!?!?!?!?! :furious:

EliSnow
01-13-2008, 03:59 AM
So, what are Spidey's powers now? Apparently he lost the biological web shooters, but what other 'new' powers did he loose? And does Peter still have contacts like Tony Stark and Dr. Strange? Is he still part of the Avengers?

WTF?!?!?!?!?! :furious:

First, I don't think anyone's certain if he kept his "new" powers, but most likely no.

And Peter lost his contacts with Tony Stark when he switched teams during the Civll War. That happened. If you look at that chart that they posted, Civil War still happened, and Peter unmasked, but no one remembers who Spidey was.

I believe he is still part of the New Avengers (remember there are two sets of Avengers - the outlaw Avengers (New Avengers) and the government sanctioned team (Mighty Avengers).

EliSnow
01-01-2010, 11:42 AM
2010 may be the year when Marvel undoes the whole "Brand New Day" move. Here's a teaser put out by Marvel:

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/content/resized/2e1cd2c3a88e3da929a678830587afb0.jpg

JustJon
01-01-2010, 01:01 PM
Why are they doing that is Quesada hates married Spiderman so much? I don't see him letting it go back to what it was.

EliSnow
01-01-2010, 01:08 PM
Why are they doing that is Quesada hates married Spiderman so much? I don't see him letting it go back to what it was.

I know, but in some way, they have to essentially end or have the characters remember what happen.

Otherwise, why would did they ever show MJ whisper in Mephisto's ear without revealing what she said?

And why this poster?