mitchell report is coming. who ya got?

[Marc with a c]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios

SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.

[Bossanova]

Luis Gonzalez, Albert Pujols, Roger Clemens

[King Hippos Bandaid]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios

SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.

not too bad of a list

I say the all steroid team represents the US in the 2008 olympics, that ought to help the Dollar

[Doctor Z]

You KNOW Tejada's on there.


But my wild card is A-Rod.

[Marc with a c]

You KNOW Tejada's on there.


But my wild card is A-Rod.

i tried to steer away from the obvious except for glaus, i couldn't think of anybody else.

[TheMojoPin]

I think it's all horseshit.

Unless they're all on it now and can get caught, this is just distraction from basebll actually cleaning up its act and being pro-active for something for once.

I don't give a rat's ass what ayone did in the past, especially when alot of it was fine by MLB rules at the time or all but ignored.

[spoon]

I bet they finally nail that dick Rance Mullinicks!

Roid-head!

[spoon]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios

SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.


Not a chance on Alex Rios. Probably Glaus, but not the skinniest smooth swinging kid. That one I'll take the bet if you're game!?

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I bet they finally nail that dick Rance Mullinicks!

Roid-head!


Floyd Youmans was a little juiced

and Sid Fernandez's gut was a little too hard for comfort

[Bulldogcakes]

Riellyluck 13170
Stugots 20993
Funkman 24771
DeathMetalMoe 28779
Mojo 28955

How any of these people got close to 30,000 posts or got to 20,000 in 2 years is beyond me. They must be on something.

I'll never forget that year Stugots showed up in spring training and had literally double the posts he had the year before.

[Marc with a c]

zoinks mojo is winning?

[spoon]

Don Zimmer will finally be exposed as well.

Just look at this amazing transformation!

http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/1960t.jpg

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/don_zimmer_autograph.jpg

http://2000magazine.com/websightsthree/yankeesmagazine/NEWPAGES2/pictures/don%20zimmer.jpg

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/series/photo035.jpg


Classic Giambi/Bondsarian moon-face syndrome. Down goes Zimmer!

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/10/11/sports/11cnd-yank.2.650.jpg

[spoon]

zoinks mojo is winning?

Zoinks!??

Really?

[Snoogans]

ARod

[JPMNICK]

i think there are going to be a lot of pitchers on that list.

[BoondockSaint]

Cal Ripken
Tony Gwynn

[TheMojoPin]

Riellyluck 13170
Stugots 20993
Funkman 24771
DeathMetalMoe 28779
Mojo 28955

How any of these people got close to 30,000 posts or got to 20,000 in 2 years is beyond me. They must be on something.

I'll never forget that year Stugots showed up in spring training and had literally double the posts he had the year before.

2 years?

Moe, Funk and I at least have the excuse of posting here for 5-6 years now. Reilly a Stugots are just freaks.

[IMSlacker]

Lance Armstrong

[Bulldogcakes]

2 years?

Moe, Funk and I at least have the excuse of posting here for 5-6 years now. Reilly a Stugots are just freaks.

Stugots is 2 years this month. Rielly is here a year and 4 months.

There's really no other explanation. Stugots head got so big he started his own radio show. I mean, please.

[Bulldogcakes]

zoinks mojo is winning?

Look, you didn't hear it from me but . . . . . . . Mojo's been getting testosterone injections.

[JPMNICK]

no matter who is on the list, if it is a Yankee or RedSox we never hear the end of it

[KnoxHarrington]

I caught a bit of Czaban's show this morning (one of my go-to shows if O&A isn't doing it for me, which is increasingly common), and the baseball guy on there said that his sources on the report say that more than half the names in it are players who are retired already.

In short, don't expect bombshells.

[Team_Ramrod]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios

SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.

If there was one candidate for 1B; I'd nominate Brad Fullmer

[Tall_James]

Andruw Jones.

[spoon]

If there was one candidate for 1B; I'd nominate Brad Fullmer

Great call! His buddy David Sequi may have sold him out.

[spadanko]

Hundley is on there for sure, as is Gilkey.

Nomar, Loduca are good choices

should be an interesting list

[spoon]

Mike Piazza

Seriously.

[Snoogans]

david wright

[Marc with a c]

marcus giles just replaced brian roberts as my starting second baseman

[Bossanova]

Take it for whats its worth, but ESPN reports 60-80 names to be released on Thursday

[epo]

I would have huge money on Bret Boone.

[BoondockSaint]

Brady Anderson's side burns will be on the list.

[ralphbxny]

Enrico Pallazzo!!

[Bossanova]

Whats the over/under on former Texas Rangers?

[Ritalin]

Mike Piazza

Seriously.

Yup.

And I think Barry Bonds, too.

[Thrice]

http://static.flickr.com/64/176484637_9e6d32e0b0_o.jpg

Gabe Kapler

[sailor]

i don't even know if this guy's safe:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4cf29b3127cce9ab4be5298e700000015108CcNHDZw5aw

[chubbyknuckles]

Carlos Delgado has to be!

[badorties]

my christmas wish is for curt schilling to be the only name on the list


http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Grimsley%20B%20and%20A%202.jpg

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

[Snacks]

This report is stupid, it will list 50-100 names but there has been estimates that 70 to 90% of the players from the late 70's til 2001 were taking some sort of enhancing drug.
All this report will do is make 50 or so players the scapegoat for MLB. Just like Bonds was for the past 4 or 5 years.

[chubbyknuckles]

yeah, but knowing we're in a war and facing an increasing national debt, isn't it nice to know the government will step in and spends shit loads of money into investigating a GAME! After they hammer down this threat, I hear they'll tackle Tire girth enhancers in Nascar.

[chubbyknuckles]

my christmas wish is for curt schilling to be the only name on the list


http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Grimsley%20B%20and%20A%202.jpg

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

Ok first off Giambi is totally Natural, and as for Sosa, that's all Plantaines baby!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I say Giambi


Jeremy Giambi, who knew

[TheMojoPin]

This report is stupid, it will list 50-100 names but there has been estimates that 70 to 90% of the players from the late 70's til 2001 were taking some sort of enhancing drug.
All this report will do is make 50 or so players the scapegoat for MLB. Just like Bonds was for the past 4 or 5 years.

Exactly. It's all smoke and mirrors to mae it look like they're being pro-active.

[Marc with a c]

it's horseshit that retired players will be on the list, i didn't even know that.

i really don't care about the list either, it isn't going to skew my perception of any of the players i just assume everyone is taking them.

i just want to see how many people i could guess.

[jauble]

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~ams22/Babe%20Ruth.jpg

Steroid injected hot dogs...also whiskey was mostly made from hgh back then

[spoon]

it's horseshit that retired players will be on the list, i didn't even know that.

i really don't care about the list either, it isn't going to skew my perception of any of the players i just assume everyone is taking them.

i just want to see how many people i could guess.

See, for me this is about knowing regardless of the impact or reasons behind it for the league. I don't want to look at everyone and think they're taking. Not that this will totally clear anyone who isn't on it, but I'll feel better about them if so. Unless some clear users are missed, then it will be a very incomplete list and won't solve shit.

[BoondockSaint]

Joe Girardi.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Brady Anderson

[TheMojoPin]

See, for me this is about knowing regardless of the impact or reasons behind it for the league. I don't want to look at everyone and think they're taking. Not that this will totally clear anyone who isn't on it, but I'll feel better about them if so. Unless some clear users are missed, then it will be a very incomplete list and won't solve shit.

It's not gonna "solve" anything. It's all bullshit after the fact info.

And whether people want to admit it or not, there's a good 20-25 years of baseball where tons of people juiced somehow. It's not gonna magically be erased. Tha was the game now. Either focus on cleaning it up NOW, or shut the fuck up, MLB. Ratting out the past does nothing except dristract from how you're doing dick now.

[spoon]

It's not gonna "solve" anything. It's all bullshit after the fact info.

And whether people want to admit it or not, there's a good 20-25 years of baseball where tons of people juiced somehow. It's not gonna magically be erased. Tha was the game now. Either focus on cleaning it up NOW, or shut the fuck up, MLB. Ratting out the past does nothing except dristract from how you're doing dick now.

Hey you're preaching to the choir here, but I am interested in the list for my own purposes that's all. I couldn't agree more with you and Snacks.

[TheMojoPin]

Now it's out that the report didn't look into amphetamine use at all, which just makes it even more bullshitty. They're basically deciding which substance abuse is OK and which isn't by doing that.

[spoon]

Now it's out that the report didn't look into amphetamine use at all, which just makes it even more bullshitty. They're basically deciding which substance abuse is OK and which isn't by doing that.

Well I can't blame them for having a focus. The whole thing was/is almost a whole decade behind after all.

Perhaps it'll be a part of the MITCHELL REPORT II: Return of the Amphetamine.





Sorry, all this trilogy talk had an effect on me.

[Fallon]

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/gallery1.5/albums/cammy/bat_break.jpg

[Earlshog]

First name in the Mitchell Report...

The Rocket... WOW!!!!

[MikeB]

Names I fully expect from my team:
Bagwell
Luis Gonzales
Cammeniti (of course)
Jason Lane
Billy Wagner
Morgan Ensberg

[OGC]

First name in the Mitchell Report...

The Rocket... WOW!!!!


Link please :clap:

[underdog]

First name in the Mitchell Report...

The Rocket... WOW!!!!

I cannot wait for the amazing hypocrisies of people come out when everyone has been trashing Bonds for taking steroids for years have players from the favorite teams in the report.

[underdog]

Link please :clap:

They actually broke into Sportscenter with the news on ESPN.

I cannot find a story online about it yet, though.

[Knowledged_one]

A link to the talk about Clemens

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-mitchell1213,0,7878211.story

[A.J.]

A link to the talk about Clemens

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-mitchell1213,0,7878211.story

I pray for a quote from Dan Duquette.

[foodcourtdruide]

I cannot wait for the amazing hypocrisies of people come out when everyone has been trashing Bonds for taking steroids for years have players from the favorite teams in the report.

That is a fucking awesome point. Do we put an asterik next to Roger Clemens name and his 300+ wins?

[walking joint]

i'm not sure how good the info is, but here are some of the names I heard:

I. Rodriquez
Clemens
Pettite
Damon
Varitek
Mo Vaughn
Puljos
Shef
Giambi (both of them)
Bonds
Bagwell
A Boone
B Boone
Bettancourt
Milton Bradley
Bichette
Albert Belle
Byrd
Caminiti
Cameron
Dykstra
C Everett
Farnsworth
Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
McGwire
Mota
Prior
Palmerio
Sosa
Schoenweis
Tejada
Kerry Wood
Matt Williams
Ismael Valdez
Julian Taverez
Rocker
Segui
A Sanchez
Feranao Tatis
Mondesi
Jose Guillen
Jay Gibbons
Clay Hensley
Darren Holmes
Wally Joyner
Felix Heredia
Darryle Kile
Matt Lawton
Neifi Perez

I guess we will see

[underdog]

That is a fucking awesome point. Do we put an asterik next to Roger Clemens name and his 300+ wins?

No, silly. He's white. And he hasn't been a dick to the media (why that actually effects any fan is beyond me).

[Marc with a c]

darryl kile. really? what is the point to that?

[Doctor Z]

Well, we all knew Clemens was gonna be on it, so no surprise there...

But who are the other "2-3 reportedly prominent Yankees" they're talking about? Pettitte is sadly probably another one, since him and Rocket were basically one in the same.

[badorties]

Well, we all knew Clemens was gonna be on it, so no surprise there...

But who are the other "2-3 reportedly prominent Yankees" they're talking about? Pettitte is sadly probably another one, since him and Rocket were basically one in the same.

i just heard from a sold source pettitte is on the list

[Earlshog]

Well, we all knew Clemens was gonna be on it, so no surprise there...

But who are the other "2-3 reportedly prominent Yankees" they're talking about? Pettitte is sadly probably another one, since him and Rocket were basically one in the same.


Well I guess Pettite Damon and Giambi...

[BoondockSaint]

i just heard from a sold source pettitte is on the list

ESPN says he is.

[jauble]

unsubstantiated but rumors are fun

http://deadspin.com/sports/is-this-the-list%3F/is-this-the-list-of-players-mentioned-333479.php

[Earlshog]

No current Phillies!!!!!! hahaha

Wally Joyner... say it ain't so....

[walking joint]

i think the list i posted may be pretty solid info. always seems to know about trades before they go public also. but there is a lot of BS stuff out there, so who knows.

[badorties]

the list:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton B radley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozz ie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon,Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, NomarGarciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gon zalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott SChoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry WoodAbraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

[Earlshog]

Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, JeremyGiambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley,Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss,

Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield,

Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

[Knowledged_one]

Im surprised no Javy Lopez on the list his numbers crashed after they started testing

[Bay Ridge Tim]

The list going around today:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

[A.J.]

Carl Everett

Jose Offerman

Julian Tavarez

That explains the tempers.

But Trot and Tek? Say it ain't so.

[Doctor Z]

A. Boone


http://bagwelljeff5.mlblogs.com/the_downlow/images/boone_1.jpg

Does this mean the greatest homerun ever hit in baseball is tainted by steroids?

Nothing is sacred...

[spadanko]

The list going around today:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

damn was jsut gonna psot it

[A.J.]

Does this mean the greatest homerun ever hit in baseball is tainted by steroids?

Nothing is sacred...

I guess not.

Johnny Damon

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-10-20-inside-vazquez.jpg

[Earlshog]

Piazza is not on the list...

[jauble]

Piazza is not on the list...

he takes a different type of injection in his ass

[Doctor Z]

I guess not.

Johnny Damon

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-10-20-inside-vazquez.jpg

Not even close.

[OGC]

Don Zimmer will finally be exposed as well.




Anthony had a good line about Zim this morning. The only 'roids he'll be associated with is hemiroids

[Knowledged_one]

I dont know the Red Sox actually won the world series when Damon hit it, Yankees choked on it after Boone hit his

[badorties]

Piazza is not on the list...

he takes a different type of injection in his ass

http://www.avp.org/images/ca04_sam_champion.jpg

[A.J.]

I'm really surprised Kevin Millar is not on this list.

[Doctor Z]

Oh wait, Johnny Damon's name surprised me at first, but then I realized...

DUH! He was on the 2004 Red Sox...

That ENTIRE TEAM was on steroids.

[A.J.]

Less than the 2003 Yankees.

[Fallon]

The list going around today:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

13 Current/Former Sox. Only one that sucks is Tek.

[Snoogans]

yea other then tek i dont care. Im just glad not to see manny and papi on this one. I am kinda mad JD Drew ISNT there

[walking joint]

where is Gary Mathews Jr?

[TheMojoPin]

OK, seriously...is Sosa some kind kind of scary-brilliant supervillain genius?

I've made this argument before...Sammy never seemed like too bright a guy, but of all the major suspects from that era, he's the one with the least evidence surrounding him using and juicing. I was convined that thi thing would nail him, but again he slips away clean.

Sosa, you magnificent bastard. So crafty...so wily...

And I love listen to the moronic Cub fans cheering on Prior leaving by saying this "proves" it's a good move, yet these same idiots also claim Wood is a "real Cub" who is a "man" because he said he wanted to stay and took cheaper deals. Which is it, dipshits?

I hate dumb fans.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Ramon Castro, i can see why the mets were nuts in searching for a catcher

[HBox]

Jason Giambi

GASP!

:ohmy:

:glurps:

[walking joint]

OK, seriously...is Sosa some kind kind of scary-brilliant supervillain genius?

I've made this argument before...Sammy never seemed like too bright a guy, but of all the major suspects from that era, he's the one with the least evidence surrounding him using and juicing. I was convined that thi thing would nail him, but again he slips away clean.

Sosa, you magnificent bastard. So crafty...so wily...

And I love listen to the moronic Cub fans cheering on Prior leaving by saying this "proves" it's a good move, yet these same idiots also claim Wood is a "real Cub" who is a "man" because he said he wanted to stay and took cheaper deals. Which is it, dipshits?

I hate dumb fans.

did a report come out that he isn't on the list? he is on the list posted above.

[Snoogans]

sosa is in there, MOJO

[TheMojoPin]

did a report come out that he isn't on the list? he is on the list posted above.

Ah, I missed him. It's only kind of in alphabetial order...and names are repeated and misspelled. That's...odd.

[BoondockSaint]

Ah, I missed him. It's only kind of in alphabetial order...and names are repeated and misspelled. That's...odd.

Supposedly, that list may be wrong.

[Snacks]

I cannot wait for the amazing hypocrisies of people come out when everyone has been trashing Bonds for taking steroids for years have players from the favorite teams in the report.

Wow do I agree with you. Im so happy to see some of the"golden boy" players on the list.

Everyone that wanted Bonds record to have a * maybe Clemens should get one how about Mr Classy Nice Guy Pettitte.? Maybe the WS Rings should be returned???

See how stupid it sounds to wipe away all the records and success? It was an era that a tonm of players used it. You cant fault someone for trying to get an edge. Especially when the corporate office encouraged it and did nothing to stop or prevent it.

I actually feel bad for all these guys because they are being made to look like assholes and most didnt get caught. MLB looks worse doing this then having had the players use steroids.

[Knowledged_one]

10 former or current orioles on teh list from what i saw

you would think with 10 of these guys they could do better then 10 straight losing seasons

[Snoogans]

thats why its good to be on my side and not care. ENTERTAIN ME. I dont give a shit how.

[TheMojoPin]

This is truly shocking.

This has tainted a sport where players, owners and coaches haven't bent or broken the rules all throughout it's history, right from the very beginning.

Oh, wait.

[Snoogans]

This is truly shocking.

This has tainted a sport where players, owners and coaches haven't bent or broken the rules all throughout it's history, right from the very beginning.

Oh, wait.

exactly. id much rather my favorite player be a roid taker then someone like ty cobb who pistol whips people for no reason

[TheMojoPin]

exactly. id much rather my favorite player be a roid taker then someone like ty cobb who pistol whips people for no reason

Attempting to slice up guys' tendons and possibly destroy their career is fine, BECAUSE HE DID IT CLEAN, MAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

You know who loves this the most? The NFL. All the attention on baseball gives them zero heat for the rampant steroid shit they have going on.

[underdog]

thats why its good to be on my side and not care. ENTERTAIN ME. I dont give a shit how.

Absolutely.

This is truly shocking.

This has tainted a sport where players, owners and coaches haven't bent or broken the rules all throughout it's history, right from the very beginning.

Oh, wait.

That's why I always loved the whole steroids are staining the game argument. Really? It's steroids where you're drawing your line?

[Snoogans]

Attempting to slice up guys' tendons and possibly destroy their career is fine, BECAUSE HE DID IT CLEAN, MAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

You know who loves this the most? The NFL. All the attention on baseball gives them zero heat for the rampant steroid shit they have going on.

oh no. Guys always get up to 290 pounds and can still run 4.4 times in the 40. They cant be on roids. SAY IT AINT SO JOE

[TheMojoPin]

Absolutely.



That's why I always loved the whole steroids are staining the game argument. Really? It's steroids where you're drawing your line?

But it's considered "character" that they drink so much, snort so much, pop so many pills and take so may "vitamins."

Remember, Mickey Mantle's various substance abuses and "helpers" = GOOD.

Guys taking strength supplements and body mass increasers = BAD.

[TheMojoPin]

oh no. Guys always get up to 290 pounds and can still run 4.4 times in the 40. They cant be on roids. SAY IT AINT SO JOE

How dare we imply that those noble gridiron warriors do such things? THERE ARE MEN HITTING MORE HOME RUNS AND PITCHERS WHO HEAL FASTER THAT NEED TO BE STOPPED!!!

[Snoogans]

at least they didnt bet on games they were reffing.....

[TheMojoPin]

at least they didnt bet on games they were reffing.....

Nope...remember, baseball is the ONLY major sport so fucked up that the government had to step in with this bullshit. Everyone else is just fine. This is clearly much worse. Obviously. Totally.

[TheMojoPin]

And FYI, that crappy e-mail forwarded list going around has not been verified at all. As of this posting, these are the only names verified by ESPN/SI.com:

Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblach
David Justice
Miguel Tejada
Brian Roberts

[Snoogans]

cause god forbid the HR record gets broken. Who cares about those pesky other sports records. Its all about the good oldy time baseballers

[jauble]

here we go....photos of checks...nice

[TheMojoPin]

Here's the actual list. (http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf)

[HBox]

And FYI, that crappy e-mail forwarded list going around has not been verified at all. As of this posting, these are the only names verified by ESPN/SI.com:

Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblach
David Justice
Miguel Tejada
Brian Roberts

So a report done by a Red Sox executive and the first 6 names are 4 Yankees and 2 Orioles?

Oh this is fair.

[Snoogans]

new names confirmed on the list

Thomas Jones, Terrel Owens, EVERY OL DL, David Boston, Julius Jones, Ray Lewis....more to come

[jauble]

Do you think that there might be any retirements today?

[HBox]

new names confirmed on the list

Thomas Jones, Terrel Owens, EVERY OL DL, David Boston, Julius Jones, Ray Lewis....more to come

But they missed this guy:

http://homepage.mac.com/nucleusg4/.Pictures/Steroids.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

HAWT CUB ON CUB ACTION!

Matt Karchner pitched for two teams in Major League Baseball between 1995 and
2000, the Chicago Cubs and the Chicago White Sox. Members of my investigative staff
contacted him as part of our effort to interview former major league players.
Karchner said that during spring training in 1999, he observed two of his Chicago
Cubs teammates inject themselves with steroids in an apartment that Karchner was sharing with
them. Karchner declined to identify the players. He said that one of the players brought the
steroids to the apartment but was afraid of needles and therefore asked the second player to
administer the shot. The second player injected the first player with steroids in the buttocks and
then injected himself.
Later that season, Karchner was offered steroids by certain of his Cubs
teammates. Karchner would not disclose the names of players who offered him steroids, but he
said that the conversations he had with them involved the general cost of steroids and discussions
of “stacking” to build lean muscle necessary for pitchers. Karchner did not report either of these
incidents to anyone at the time.

Mmmmmm, yeaaaaaah...stick it in slow.

This makes it sound like they shared the same needle. That's the only thing I'm actually disgusted by if it's true. KEEP YO' SHIT CLEAN, FOOLS.

[Snacks]

ohhhhh the children see the players doing steroids so they copy them, ohhhh my, the children.

gimmie a Fucking break. He just said 3-6% of high schoolers are taken steroids. So what, how many are smokin weed or snorting coke or doing ecstasy?

[TheMojoPin]

I just searched the PDF file for Wood and Prior and nothing came up, so take that for what you will in regards to the first list going around. I can't find any mention of Pujols. Seems like at least some of it was bogus.

No Sosa, either, so my previous post still stands. HE IS AN EVIL GENIUS SUPERVILLAN MASTERMIND LIVING IN HIS ISLAND LAIR.

I'll bet Mercker just bought them so he could save other people from using them.

Use Crtl-F to search for specific names. That first list was just someone guessing.

[Freakshow]

So a report done by a Red Sox executive and the first 6 names are 4 Yankees and 2 Orioles?

Oh this is fair.

ESPN doesn't acknowledge that baseball exists outside the AL east.

[TheMojoPin]

ohhhhh the children see the players doing steroids so they copy them, ohhhh my, the children.

gimmie a Fucking break. He just said 3-6% of high schoolers are taken steroids. So what, how many are smokin weed or snorting coke or doing ecstasy?

And I'll bet serious money that almost all of the HS users did it with the knowledge/support of their coaches and/or ultra-competitive parents.

Yeah, kids are going to shell out their easily had thousands of dollars for this stuff. Makes total sense.

[TheMojoPin]

No NOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[Snoogans]

this is such fuckin bullshit. Nonsense waste of money report

[topless_mike]

So a report done by a Red Sox executive and the first 6 names are 4 Yankees and 2 Orioles?

Oh this is fair.

did you notice that one of the sections in the table of contents is about steriods found in a boston red sox player's car in june 2000? i guess not.

[HBox]

If your report will only have info from three suppliers it's going to be so damn limited that you shouldn't even bother naming names. Just make some recommendations and leave it at that.

And of course, not a sniff of any player even remotely important to any recent Red Sox team. At least Mitchell has a nice cushy job to return to.

[HBox]

did you notice that one of the sections in the table of contents is about steriods found in a boston red sox player's car in june 2000? i guess not.

OH SHIT! MANNY ALEXANDER!

He's really taking NO PRISONERS!!!!!!!

[Marc with a c]

hey. i know manny alexander. that really makes me laugh.

[HBox]

Mitchell said he found no evidence of drug use in the last two years.

REALLY? DIDJA?

[Snoogans]

Mitchell said he found no evidence of drug use in the last two years.

REALLY? DIDJA?

yea cause that would get guys in trouble. They cant put out a report that actually has substance, thats silly

[Earlshog]

I need some cliffs notes....


409 pages... looks like I have to send this one out to the copy machine to print

[HBox]

yea cause that would get guys in trouble. They cant put out a report that actually has substance, thats silly

He says that Clemens used steroids repeatedly for years.......... and then says no one should be punished because of this report.

Yeah.

At least this knocks Clemens down from his pedestal. He's should be in the same company as Bonds. Should have been already, really. Bonds changes aren't that much more than Clemens.

[jauble]

anyone just hear the arabic or whatever it was on the ESPN feed?

[HBox]

I need some cliffs notes....


409 pages... looks like I have to send this one out to the copy machine to print

Go to page 145 and start scrolling. There's a section for every player named.

[Freitag]

The only name on the list I hate is Carl Everett. Because of the Mussina thing. Ugh.

[TheMojoPin]

Here's the actual list:

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Lenny Dysktra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Greg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangello
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody Mckay
Kent Mercker
Andy Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christianson
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Chad Allen
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett Jr.
Jim Parque
Brandon Donnelly
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Daniel Naulty
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
David Bell

[TheMojoPin]

anyone just hear the arabic or whatever it was on the ESPN feed?

I thought it sounded like Russian...very weird.

[HBox]

Phil Hiatt

I hope this doesn't affect his hotel empire.

Fernando Vina

Baseball Tonight should be a little awkward.

[Marc with a c]

say it aint so matt franco.

best blonde moustache in the biz, now i know why.

[Marc with a c]

The only name on the list I hate is Carl Everett. Because of the Mussina thing. Ugh.

that's why i love him, that and he hates dinosaurs.

[Snoogans]

WHAT!? What a fuckin crock of shit report this is. I dont care who took them, but if this is the fluffing they are gonna give us for all that nonsense, fuck them. I hope congress puts a huge boot up their ass

[HBox]

Paul Lo Duca

Got that contract signed just in the nick of time, huh buddy?

[TheMojoPin]

anyone just hear the arabic or whatever it was on the ESPN feed?

I thought it sounded like Russian...very weird.

In fact, sources close to the Albany investigation tell SI.com they believe the litany of names released on Thursday was "not at all a full and final" compilation.

Furthermore, there are also other large-scale, ongoing probes Sen. George Mitchell was clearly unable to access. For instance, there's an international DEA operation, code named "Raw Deal," that traces the movement of raw steroid and HGH powder from manufacturing labs in China to the basements and garages of American dealers. Raids have unearthed lengthy client lists and hard drive evidence that sources tell SI.com may well lead directly to the clubhouses and locker rooms of pro sports teams.

[Earlshog]

Here's the actual list:

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Lenny Dysktra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Greg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangello
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody Mckay
Kent Mercker
Andy Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christianson
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Chad Allen
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett Jr.
Jim Parque
Brandon Donnelly
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Daniel Naulty
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
David Bell


where did this list come from?

[TheMojoPin]

where did this list come from?

The actual report. I linked to the PDF file on the previous page.

[Earlshog]

The actual report. I linked to the PDF file on the previous page.

cool... what the fuck were these guys thinking writting checks...

[Freakshow]

nooooo not Stephen Randolph!!!!!!!

[Doctor Z]

So, I'm reading the report right now... Looks like McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH during his elbow rehab in 2002.

If that's all, I don't see why his name should be marred. He used it to rehab a bad elbow, and looks like that's it.

[Earlshog]

So it turns out Jose Cansecos book was pretty accurate...

[BoondockSaint]

No Sosa or McGwire?

I'm just glad Piazza isn't on there. I think that would have disappointed me somewhat.

And Clemens. Oh my goodness gracious.

[Earlshog]

So will this keep the Rocket out of the Hall?

[topless_mike]

did you actually think that a 44 year old could throw 90mph heat and not be on something?


and O's miguel tejada was just traded yesterdee for 5 players.... do you think the astros can get their money back?

[Freakshow]

So, I'm reading the report right now... Looks like McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH during his elbow rehab in 2002.

If that's all, I don't see why his name should be marred. He used it to rehab a bad elbow, and looks like that's it.

There are a lot of Orioles on the list, but they have sucked for the last 10 years. So clearly the roids didn't work, so they shouldn't be on the list either...

[Earlshog]

did you actually think that a 44 year old could throw 90mph heat and not be on something?


and O's miguel tejada was just traded yesterdee for 5 players.... do you think the astros can get their money back?

I didn't see Nolan Ryans name on the list.....

Tejada was pretty well known as a juice head...

[BoondockSaint]

It was B-12!

[BoondockSaint]

No Ivan Rodriguez either. I think this investigation was a little incomplete.

[JPMNICK]

So will this keep the Rocket out of the Hall?

it would be AMAZING if he was not a 1st ballot hall of famer. i do not think this report can keep him out

[TheMojoPin]

it would be AMAZING if he was not a 1st ballot hall of famer. i do not think this report can keep him out

It would be retarded if he was kept out. It's retaded McGwire isn't in. This stuff doesn't magically make crappy players good.

[Earlshog]

It would be retarded if he was kept out. It's retaded McGwire isn't in. This stuff doesn't magically make crappy players good.

While I agree with you , if you are going to keep McGwire out for this it dosen't make sense to let the Rocket in...

[underdog]

So, I'm reading the report right now... Looks like McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH during his elbow rehab in 2002.

If that's all, I don't see why his name should be marred. He used it to rehab a bad elbow, and looks like that's it.

Either vilify everyone for taking HGH and steroids or vilify no one.

[Cleophus James]

So will this keep the Rocket out of the Hall?
No because hes white!

[NortonRules]

Soooo glad Varitek, Trot Nixon and Damon are on there.

2004*
2007*

The captain of the team for two World Championships is a cheater. Wow.

(not to mention many many many other Sox players including Julian Tavarez, Gagne, Nomar).

[NortonRules]

No Ivan Rodriguez either. I think this investigation was a little incomplete.

Pudge is on there. Some lists are incomplete. You don't lose a ton of weight and stop hitting and NOT make this report.

[BoondockSaint]

Soooo glad Varitek, Trot Nixon and Damon are on there.

2004*
2007*

The captain of the team for two World Championships is a cheater. Wow.

(not to mention many many many other Sox players including Julian Tavarez, Gagne,
Nomar).

The list you're using was a fake. The list Mojo posted has everyone from the official report. No Pudge, Varitek, Nixon, Damon or Tavarez.

[underdog]

Soooo glad Varitek, Trot Nixon and Damon are on there.

2004*
2007*

The captain of the team for two World Championships is a cheater. Wow.

(not to mention many many many other Sox players including Julian Tavarez, Gagne, Nomar).

Do steroids help reading comprehension? Because if they do, you should think about taking them.

[TheMojoPin]

Pudge is on there. Some lists are incomplete. You don't lose a ton of weight and stop hitting and NOT make this report.

The official list is out. You're using a fake list.

[badorties]

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde


Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."

Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagné
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exavier "Nook" Logan


Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

[Earlshog]

Do steroids help reading comprehension? Because if they do, you should think about taking them.

:lol:

[Doctor Z]

By far my favorite parts of the Mitchell Report:

http://homepage.mac.com/uploaddeck/.Pictures/gagne.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/uploaddeck/.Pictures/brown.jpg

[Earlshog]

By far my favorite parts of the Mitchell Report:

http://homepage.mac.com/uploaddeck/.Pictures/gagne.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/uploaddeck/.Pictures/brown.jpg

what a horses ass...

I liked how Brian Roberts had a check for $150.... what did he by 5% of a cycle...

[cougarjake13]

can i place my bet on the field ???

[spoon]

Wow do I agree with you. Im so happy to see some of the"golden boy" players on the list.

Everyone that wanted Bonds record to have a * maybe Clemens should get one how about Mr Classy Nice Guy Pettitte.? Maybe the WS Rings should be returned???

See how stupid it sounds to wipe away all the records and success? It was an era that a tonm of players used it. You cant fault someone for trying to get an edge. Especially when the corporate office encouraged it and did nothing to stop or prevent it.

I actually feel bad for all these guys because they are being made to look like assholes and most didnt get caught. MLB looks worse doing this then having had the players use steroids.

Bullshit! Fuck them all, including Glaus and Zaun (especially Zaun bc he keeps lying about it and thinks we're all idiots. However, you guys really jumped the gun on "possible" lists huh?

[spoon]

new names confirmed on the list

Thomas Jones, Terrel Owens, EVERY OL DL, David Boston, Julius Jones, Ray Lewis....more to come

Jose Theodore, Kimbo and Albanian Kev just added.

[spoon]

If your report will only have info from three suppliers it's going to be so damn limited that you shouldn't even bother naming names. Just make some recommendations and leave it at that.

And of course, not a sniff of any player even remotely important to any recent Red Sox team. At least Mitchell has a nice cushy job to return to.

Waaaaa! There were yankees on the list. Did any of those names even surprise you? Perhaps you and Bulldog can do your own investigation since it pains you so much.

[spoon]

So, I'm reading the report right now... Looks like McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH during his elbow rehab in 2002.

If that's all, I don't see why his name should be marred. He used it to rehab a bad elbow, and looks like that's it.

Come on Z, you're kidding right. So then Merriman shouldn't have been suspended either. He claimed he didn't know it was in his health store supplement. Or perhaps it should be legal if only you can claim an injury, which every damn player can at any time. Nice try, stop being a homer.

[HBox]

Waaaaa! There were yankees on the list. Did any of those names even surprise you? Perhaps you and Bulldog can do your own investigation since it pains you so much.

What's the point of naming names when you know you you are missing shit loads of players?

[spoon]

No Ivan Rodriguez either. I think this investigation was a little incomplete.

They acknowledge this in the report, as it would be impossible to get everyone. To me, this is the only issue I have with mentioning the incomplete list of names. Some will walk here (if the other investigations by the US gov don't blow this open even more) and others will fry for the same damn thing.

[spoon]

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde


Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."

Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagné
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exavier "Nook" Logan


Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007) From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard



Yah, Toronto representing! 10 names along with some in depth reports from their locker room and the stadium.

[PhilDeez]

I am glad this report was attempted. But if Selig really wanted a legit finding, he should have asked Mitchell to step aside from his Red Sox role, and given him more power in the investigation.
To me it is shaky at best when the majority of the report is based on testimony from a club house attendant and a trainer. There is no hard evidence, and none of these claims can be proven out side of the he said she said crap.
These guys probably juiced, as well as many others not on the list, but we will never know for sure. It is odd not one current Red Sox showed up on the list.

[Earlshog]

Dave Justice was just on the Herd (ESPN radio 140) and he is pissed as shit. If I can find the audio I'll post a link.

[Doctor Z]

Come on Z, you're kidding right. So then Merriman shouldn't have been suspended either. He claimed he didn't know it was in his health store supplement. Or perhaps it should be legal if only you can claim an injury, which every damn player can at any time. Nice try, stop being a homer.

My point isn't in regard to whether he should be suspended or not, (and I don't think anyone on this list is gonna face suspension, because I don't think that's how baseball wants to handle this. They've made it pretty clear that the goal is to move forward from this... which I agree with.) But my point was simply from a personal standpoint. I'm simply saying that, if you actually look at the details of the report, and not simply "This guy's on the list, this guy's not", it's unfair to brand Pettitte a cheater and vilify him the way the papers are right now. The fact is, some guys juiced constantly, to play better and get an edge. According to this report, Pettitte took HGH during a brief period with the Astros to assist the healing of an elbow injury. Did he break the rules? Yes. I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable, (though, like I said, I don't think baseball will hold anyone from this report accountable), but I don't think it's an educated judgement to say "Pettitte's a dirty cheat and a phony" simply because he used HGH for an elbow injury. "Shame Of The Yankees"? Not at all. And if you're walking around today thinking that Andy Pettitte is a bad person, a liar, and a cheater, you simply haven't done your research.

And I'm certain that there's a shitload of guys in that report who are mentioned for the same reasons. And there's a shitload of guys who have obviously done steroids/HGH and aren't even mentioned in there.

All in all, the report means shit to me, and MLB simply needs to finally put this era behind them and continue to improve their illegal substance program.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I don't ever want to here any of you who are defending Pettitte attack Rodney Harrison. HGH is so rampant I don't even count it as a serious steroid. This report was limited no by the man running it but by the lack of cooperation of all the teams, players including the Red Sox. Of course they have players on their team taking steroids. In the same way there are players on the Yankees now who are undoubtably taking steroids that weren't brought up in this investigation.

[Doctor Z]

Dave Justice was just on the Herd (ESPN radio 140) and he is pissed as shit. If I can find the audio I'll post a link.

I would love to hear that. If anyone gets a hold of it, post that shit!

[jetdog]

link to David Justice on ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3154996)

[Kevin]

This report was an absolute sham.. It did nothing, it proved less.. It took him 2 years to do shit.. Its a front by mlb to say we tried something.. BULLSHIT!

And btw... Let me preface my next statement by saying, i think he did do them....





BUUUUUUUUUT...

They have so little on Clemens that it was comical that he was on this list.. I am sorry but you need a HELL of a lot more than a he said she said statement of a corned guy to put this man on the list...

I know he did not have much to work with.. But then just say..Fuck this, i can't do this shit.. They arent cooperating, i am out. But Mitchell works for MLB.. Any steriod list without Gabe Kapler, is not credible..

The whole shit was a bigger let down then the Dougrasso threesome that was not.

[Bossanova]

If this doesn't mean that the Mets are the 2000 World Series Champs, I really don't care. Actually, I still don't care and I would never want to have anyone stripped of titles or awards.

[lleeder]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios

SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.

This is the first time I've read this thread. Nice work Marc you really nailed alot alot of your picks.

[spoon]

I don't ever want to here any of you who are defending Pettitte attack Rodney Harrison. HGH is so rampant I don't even count it as a serious steroid. This report was limited no by the man running it but by the lack of cooperation of all the teams, players including the Red Sox. Of course they have players on their team taking steroids. In the same way there are players on the Yankees now who are undoubtably taking steroids that weren't brought up in this investigation.

That's hardly a reason to disregard it. Sorry, just bc they don't have everyone on the list doesn't mean we as fans shouldn't have the knowledge of these findings. And as much as everyone here would like to say everyone did use, it's still a smaller portion of the grand total, a much smaller cross section of the league then people want to admit. I think some of you are trying to say everyone cheated so it's fine, and to me that's bullshit. Even though it's late, this report and investigation is better late then never. Now nobody can claim they didn't know, now everything is out there as much as possible at this point after years of looking the other way. If you notice everyone in MLB that gets angry about this are either involved or personal friends of those getting hit by this.

And Z, I still don't get your wishy washy defense of Petite. If you were the judge, would you just leave off everyone on this report that "claims" it was for injury? Hell, that's half the reason people take these things, to repair quicker from injury, workouts, prolong careers and inflate their abilities to garner bigger contracts. As you stated, I doubt any formal MLB charges will be brought on these players at this point. However, it did give the league the ability to use this as the reason to lean on MLBPA to get real testing, actual tests for HGH and anything on the horizion and pretty much sick the public on them if they continue to fight it. The punishment may come in the form of reputations destroyed, hall of fame voting and so much more when linked to cheating and most of the time lying about it.

[spoon]

This report was an absolute sham.. It did nothing, it proved less.. It took him 2 years to do shit.. Its a front by mlb to say we tried something.. BULLSHIT!

And btw... Let me preface my next statement by saying, i think he did do them....





BUUUUUUUUUT...

They have so little on Clemens that it was comical that he was on this list.. I am sorry but you need a HELL of a lot more than a he said she said statement of a corned guy to put this man on the list...

I know he did not have much to work with.. But then just say..Fuck this, i can't do this shit.. They arent cooperating, i am out. But Mitchell works for MLB.. Any steriod list without Gabe Kapler, is not credible..

The whole shit was a bigger let down then the Dougrasso threesome that was not.

Kevin, if you think the info on Clemens alone isn't damming, you're crazy! If it was even close to bullshit, the league would have been so afraid to publish what it has. In fact, it is believed that they are daring those mentioned to sue, bc rumor has it that the missing 1000 pages have even more damming information, along with the other names you seem to really want to hear to validate this report. Also, remember that they were pretty much required to hold back plenty on this report due to the ongoing DEA investigation involving some other players which goes all the way back to labs and China and elsewhere. So I think people need to realize that this was a stand needed to get the league to the next step. And in my opinion, I'm really not concerned one fucking bit if people who cheated are the fall guys bc I want the league cleaned up as much as possible. Will people slip through the cracks? Will people always look for a way to get an unfair advantage? Of course the answer is yes as long as their is money, fortune and fame at stake. Is it right to look the other way and openly let it happen, even if the league made bad choices early? No fucking way.

[spoon]

i'll take

c-paul loduca
1B-nomar garciaparra
2B-brian roberts
3B-troy glaus
SS-carlos guillen
LF-garett anderson
CF-grady sizemore
RF-alex rios
SP- andy petite
RP-eric gagne

we'll see. im actually really looking forward to see this.

Take it back Marc! Take it back you mother fucker!

And everyone on that list minus Alex Rios and Grady Sizemore were far from guesses, they were already linked.

[Kevin]

Kevin, if you think the info on Clemens alone isn't damming, you're crazy! If it was even close to bullshit, the league would have been so afraid to publish what it has. In fact, it is believed that they are daring those mentioned to sue, bc rumor has it that the missing 1000 pages have even more damming information, along with the other names you seem to really want to hear to validate this report. Also, remember that they were pretty much required to hold back plenty on this report due to the ongoing DEA investigation involving some other players which goes all the way back to labs and China and elsewhere. So I think people need to realize that this was a stand needed to get the league to the next step. And in my opinion, I'm really not concerned one fucking bit if people who cheated are the fall guys bc I want the league cleaned up as much as possible. Will people slip through the cracks? Will people always look for a way to get an unfair advantage? Of course the answer is yes as long as their is money, fortune and fame at stake. Is it right to look the other way and openly let it happen, even if the league made bad choices early? No fucking way.

Yea, i read org that the report was 1400 pages..

And i do agree.. This should be the end of it.. Move on.. And find ways to do better tests

But the question is.. Can we ever move on? These labs will always find ways to dupe the tests.. I do not think we can ever say, hey, this sport or any sport is completely or even close to being clean..

[spoon]

Yea, i read org that the report was 1400 pages..

And i do agree.. This should be the end of it.. Move on.. And find ways to do better tests

But the question is.. Can we ever move on? These labs will always find ways to dupe the tests.. I do not think we can ever say, hey, this sport or any sport is completely or even close to being clean..

Well it should never be let go as it was in the late 90's/early 00's. And the MLBPA didn't exactly work well with the league when it was trying to finally truly enforce their new rules. Hell, everyone gives blood at the start of the season for tests and it doesn't allow them to test for HGH (which can be tested for in the blood), but allows them to do normal med tests. Why? I know they're protecting their players, but from what in this instance. There have been little modification to a system that has somehow managed to get better for steroids even with the MLBPA's resistance to help, but we all know HGH is the big issue right now and they simply haven't tested a soul yet. Sure the league is much more clean in terms of the old fashion steroid, but it continues to be laden with HGH in the minds of those who were involved in the Mitchell report and any logical fan.

And sure there will always be a war between the testers and the cheaters, but if the league at least shows a commitment to evolviing/testing to keep it down, along with punish use and involvement seriously the battlefield is surely marked and people can't claim ignorance any longer. It's a joke how people seemingly take the side of the people who continue to further tarnish this game. The only thing on this level of cheating in my mind was fixing games as with the Chi "Black Sox".

[Doctor Z]

And Z, I still don't get your wishy washy defense of Petite. If you were the judge, would you just leave off everyone on this report that "claims" it was for injury?

Pettitte never 'claimed' anything. The story of his HGH use comes from a trainer who has nothing to lose or gain from making up a fake story. But again, if we take what is in this report as the truth (which I do), it's absolutely retarded to splash the newspaper with "CHEATER", "BACKSTABBER", "SHAME OF THE YANKEES", and "DISGRACE", because if you're not an idiot and you've done your research, you know it's nothing like that.

[spoon]

Pettitte never 'claimed' anything. The story of his HGH use comes from a trainer who has nothing to lose or gain from making up a fake story. But again, if we take what is in this report as the truth (which I do), it's absolutely retarded to splash the newspaper with "CHEATER", "BACKSTABBER", "SHAME OF THE YANKEES", and "DISGRACE", because if you're not an idiot and you've done your research, you know it's nothing like that.

The headlines were in NYC, so I'm not sure you're going after the right guy here. I wouldn't go that far as it is what it is, but being objective and creating headlines with less vitriol and simply reporting the news is something of the past I'm afraid. It's as if the news is run by Hank Steinbrenner or something. Seriously, those were over the line and simply reporting gone bad.

[Kevin]

Why does anyone ever expect any less from these NYC papers??

[spoon]

Why does anyone ever expect any less from these NYC papers??

I guess, but usually they show some restraint with their own (especially one as loved at Petite).

[spoon]

Here's the actual list. (http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf)

You guys really need to read some of this shit. And Justice needed to read this report before shooting off with his mouth. There is plenty of info on him "buying" steroids, not just talking about them as he claims. What an ass. Time to read your section in the report.

[Fallon]

That would explain the beatings.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4966/halleberry5180240jf9.jpg

[waltermitty]

Of the 12 Players named that played on the Braves, I have autographed baseballs from at least half of them.... What does this do to the value? (not that they were woth much anyway)

Maybe I can Ebay them as a package deal....

[PapaBear]

Of the 12 Players named that played on the Braves, I have autographed baseballs from at least half of them.... What does this do to the value? (not that they were woth much anyway)

Maybe I can Ebay them as a package deal....

For Sale: Full sized steroid balls...

[underdog]

Pettitte admits to using HGH (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305)

Now people have an excuse of why Pettitte is in a different situation than Bonds.

But there's still no excuse for Clemens not being treated the same way.

[Bulldogcakes]

LIE OF THE NEEDLE
TRAINER RIPS CLEMENS ACCUSER, SAYS ROCKET WAS CLEAN (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162007/sports/yankees/lie_needle_984675.htm)

Now I guess we can all come up with reasons as to why this guy would lie. Maybe he has an ongoing financial relationship with Roger. Or wants to show his loyalty to current and prospective clients.

MCNamee of course, has good reasons to lie as well, the Feds told him to give up something good or he's going to jail.

Point being, these are all just accusations. Claims made by people, all of whom have axes to grind. Without any hard physical evidence, its difficult to decide who to believe. If you're being fair.

[Snoogans]

LIE OF THE NEEDLE
TRAINER RIPS CLEMENS ACCUSER, SAYS ROCKET WAS CLEAN (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162007/sports/yankees/lie_needle_984675.htm)

Now I guess we can all come up with reasons as to why this guy would lie. Maybe he has an ongoing financial relationship with Roger. Or wants to show his loyalty to current and prospective clients.

MCNamee of course, has good reasons to lie as well, the Feds told him to give up something good or he's going to jail.

Point being, these are all just accusations. Claims made by people, all of whom have axes to grind. Without any hard physical evidence, its difficult to decide who to believe. If you're being fair.

ummm, yea BDC, cause when the government says you better tell us the truth, that gives everyone motivation to lie. Esp when Lying during plea agreements extends your sentence incredibly. YOU KNOW NOTHING, about anything seemingly.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Baichu, a massage therapist with the Astros who served as a workout partner for Clemens from 2004-06 and lived on Clemens' Texas property in order to be on hand for late-night workouts and massages, unloaded on McNamee, a former personal trainer of Clemens.

This is getting really funny. I'd believe Clemens a little bit more if Pettitte hadn't come out and said that basically yeah what McNamee said was accurate. So I'm supposed to believe that he told the truth about Pettitte but made up stuff about Clemens who suprised no one by being named in the Mitchell Report.

says McNamee fingered Clemens because he was envious that Clemens won a record-setting seventh Cy Young award in 2004 with Houston after he parted ways with McNamee.

This is getting really homoerotic. It sounds like this massage therapist has a massive man crush on Clemens.
"If Roger is guilty of anything, it's that he has a big heart," Baichu said.
From his use of steroids

Baichu, who has shared workout space and big-league clubhouses with Clemens for seven years, insists he never saw the tell-tale signs of steroid abuse (acne and hair on back) or heard Clemens talk about steroids.
Nevermind I guess i'm unknowingly taking steroids so it is possible Clemens isn't just trying to save his ass.

[Snoogans]

funniest part is, this guy said mcnamee was jealous that clemens won after he left mac. But in the report, clemens didnt leave mac until may of 07 and has still worked out with him since then. Clemens is just ruinin himself

[Bossanova]

If Pettite and Clemens used the same trainer and Andy admitted he used, wouldn't that hurt Clemens cred just a bit?

[Snoogans]

I really wish I remember the exact page. But go back in the report and find the stuff about clemens and pettite and it specifically states clemens has used this guy even until now. This other dude is flat out lying and it's hilarious. And notice Clemens hasn't actually said shit

[Dan 'Hampton]

Check out the pic in that story too. Shows Clemens friend of questionable sexuality standing there with Chuck Knoblauch. Another guy mentioned in the report. Seems this guy has a ton to lose if he doesn't get out there and start shoveling the shit away from Clemens. Anyone else get the impression he hasn't talked to Clemens since it broke?
Who wrote this shit fluff article and why are they employed? Oh yeah it's the POST.

[Snoogans]

good point. And ill bet, if he worked with roger, that he also worked with Pettite.
I dont care if guys used steroids. I like it actually. But shit, be men and stop lying

[Dan 'Hampton]

Someone Tivo A-Rod tonight when he's denying taking steroids. We'll all look back and laugh about it some day.

[BoondockSaint]

I like Peter Abraham's take on Pettitte:

While it’s commendable that Andy Pettitte has admitted to using human growth hormone, his statement leaves a lot to be desired.

Pettitte says:

If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize. It was a crime. It’s illegal in this country to have HGH without a prescription. That’s an error in judgment.

I wasn’t looking for an edge; I was looking to heal. Healing faster via the use of human growth hormone is certainly an edge. If you’re using HGH, you have an edge over an injured player who isn’t using HGH.

Though it was not against baseball rules … Technically, the use of prescription drugs without a prescription has been illegal in baseball since 1971. Baseball also made it clear in the early 1990s that any sort of performance-enhancing drugs were illegal. HGH wasn’t specifically banned in 2002 because it was new drug in baseball circles, but that’s a poor excuse. If your trainer gives you injections of a drug, you know it’s wrong.

Andy is a good guy who apparently made one mistake. I don’t think he should be suspended. But his “apology” seems like more of an excuse. Better to simply admit guilt, apologize and move on.

That said, Yankee fans love the guy and will love his statement. The criticism of the media and the excuses will play well.

This is bad news for Roger Clemens. The Rocket has denied everything. But if Brian McNamee was injecting Pettitte, it’s hard to believe that the trainer wasn’t doing the same for Clemens.

[A.J.]

Maybe someone else said the same thing before and I apologize if so but....

the barflies and I were talking about this the other night and I made the point that I belive that for most of the guys on this list, the short-term use of HGH was probably like Pettitte's situation -- a means to heal quicker. I think that maybe for a lot of them, it was no different than getting a cortizone shot to help pay through the pain or to get back into action faster. I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but for players like these, it wasn't about "getting the edge" like it was for primadonnas like Bonds and Clemens.

[BoondockSaint]

Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force weighs in on the Mitchell Report.

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[TheMojoPin]

Interesting analysis of Sosa: (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/buck-weaver-lives/)

A lot of information and allegations in recent weeks implied that proof regarding Sosa’s (alleged) steroid use was forthcoming and we’re still right where we were when I wrote the above snippet on June 22, 2007. To be sure, he had a remarkable comeback. He was coming off a season in which he didn’t play that was preceded by his worst season since he was in his early 20s. Still, he provided above-league-average offense (102 OPS+), slugged more than 20 HR and mauled left-handed pitching to the tune of .328/.410/.613.

Maybe he is legitimately that talented.

For the time being, I’m perfectly willing to state that Sosa’s four seasons averaging 61 HR and his career 609 are the genuine article. This much is certain: It was the perfect storm for such a run. Consider that the era itself was conducive to the 60-HR barrier being breached by someone (smaller parks, lighter and harder bats, livelier baseballs, better weight training and nutrition, a shrinking strike zone, and pitchers being actively discouraged from pitching inside).

In addition, Sosa's years of 66, 63, 50 and 64 HR from 1998-2001 occurred during the four seasons he was the age a hitter's power generally peaks (late 20s-early 30s). Further, they coincided with the seasons he garnered the most hits (198, 180, 193 and 189), AB (642, 643, 625 and 604), doubles (116), and percentage of balls in play being hits (.302 BA).

For a power hitter, getting 30-45 more hits will translate into a lot more home runs. Sosa improved both his contact and plate discipline at the same time his power spiked. If the home runs came first followed by the walks, I could see pitchers avoiding his "new-found" power. The home run spike, however, seemed to coincide with greater selectivity, much improved contact and many more opportunities while playing half his games in a good home run park.

A perfect storm.

[Bulldogcakes]

Interesting analysis of Sosa: (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/buck-weaver-lives/)

I don't find that argument very persuasive. Bonds also saw his OBP soar during his big HR years. He didn't improve his plate dicipline, he became a much bigger power threat and pitchers were simply avoiding him. Steroids help you recover, that explains his high AB's. The hits and contact numbers can also be explained by a power hitter being helped by adding more stregnth. Balls hit harder will find more holes.

Steroids are legally obtainable (w/o presription) in Sosa's native Dominican Republic. Their effects largely wear off after a few months unless you continue 'cycling' them. Its also worth noting that Sosa's production fell off drastically toward the end of the year. He could have used them in the off season to get in shape, stopped during spring training or switched to HGH to try to maintain the effects. Then as the season wore on, he wore out. NFL Lineman are known to lose a lot of weight during the season, and its not because they're playing so hard. Its because they're being tested.

Or he could just be a great player. Thats a big part of the tragedy of the steroid era, you don't know which #s are real and which aren't. Guys used to have career years, put on weight as they got older, some maintained their success well into their 40's like Nolan Ryan. But now if those things happen we all conclude they must be cheating.

BTW-Hardball Times is a great site. Check out the Hall of Fame article about tablesetters. It convinced me that Tim Raines deserves to get in.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't find that argument very persuasive. Bonds also saw his OBP soar during his big HR years. He didn't improve his plate dicipline, he became a much bigger power threat and pitchers were simply avoiding him. Steroids help you recover, that explains his high AB's. The hits and contact numbers can also be explained by a power hitter being helped by adding more stregnth. Balls hit harder will find more holes.

But that's part of the point of the article...soaring OPS doesn't prove anything either way. If a guy starts hitting better, he's going to get on base more...either due to more hits or more walks. Steroids don't magically make someone a better hitter. Sosa made very noticeable changes in his swing and stance before his numbers started soaring. Derrek Lee did the same thing before 2005 and his numbers spiked.

Age is another key issue that the article points out...Sosa saw his numbers steadily increase during his peak years. That contrasts sharply with most of the other bg steroid assumptions, what with their sudden spikes past or at the very end of their 28-32 prime.

It's also difficult to use someone's numbers dropping towards the end of the season as any kind of proof of steroid use. The vast majoriy of players typically see some kind of drop as the season wears on, especially near the end.

Again, if I had to guess, I'd say he juiced...I'm just fascinated with how he's skated so clean of this mess so far.