Does Rap Hold Up?

[booster11373]

First off, I'm not the biggest fan of Rap to begin with but I dont hate it and have bought a few Rap CD's in my time but none recently

here's some background...

Over the Thanksgiving holiday I went to a relatives house and while going thru his CD collection I found a ton of early to mid 90's rap albums at least 30all of the gangsta variety and they just seemed so silly to me lots of Death Row stuff

I asked if he ever still listened to any of this stuff and he said no

Is there classic rap in the same sense as there is classic rock?

Does classic rap even get played anywhere?

Does rap hold up, will kids 20 years from now be listening to Grandmaster Flash or Snnop Dog the same way that kids still listen to the Doors or Pink Floyd?


if not, what makes Rap so quickly dated and disposable?

[Doctor Z]

Maybe the stuff you were listening to was shitty rap to begin with, so it didn't hold up the same way shitty rock or anything else shitty doesn't hold up. I can definitely say that a lot of Biggie, Tupac, Dre, De La Soul, and Snoop shit still holds up quite well.

[badorties]

most pop music of any genre is fairly disposable

but if you click with an artist and their catalog, the attachment will make the musc a bit more viable

at 16, public enemy blew my mind away and still holds up really well ... the same goes well for a tribe called quest and beastie boys

everything else is just really single and one hit throwoffs

[Doctor Z]

the same goes well for a tribe called quest and beastie boys

DOUBLE fact.

[epo]

To echo what was already said, most music of any genre doesn't hold up as a majority of it is quite shitty. However really great music holds up over time. It's not a flaw of rap, rather a flaw of shit.

I hate to tell you, but that Sir-Mix-a-Lot CD didn't hold up because it was crap, not because it was "rap".

[Servo]

Wu-tang Clan's first album holds up too... it's just raw, no-frills hip-hop that's just as good today as it was in '93.

[foodcourtdruide]

I agree with what everyone else here is saying. Your Vanilla Ice CD may not hold up, but most albums from Gangstarr, KRSONE, Public Enemy, Wu Tang and a few other groups definitely do.

[cupcakelove]

Yes. Rap is like all other forms of music. 99% of it is garbage, and the really popular stuff rarely seems as good a few years later.

[ChrisTheCop]

I dunno if rap holds up.

But some who listen to it commit hold ups.

[moochcassidy]

i didnt get into rap until the late 90's so id say yes.

[Doctor Z]

I dunno if rap holds up.

But some who listen to it commit hold ups.

http://www.lakelandwildlife.co.uk/images/darkcrick.gif

[ChrisTheCop]

go watch a yankee game.


(and if ya wanna watch em win, try yes classics.)

[A.J.]

go watch a yankee game.


(and if ya wanna watch em win, try yes classics.)

Now that's what I call "police brutality"!

http://www.otherlandtoys.co.uk/images/horn800.jpg

[Death Metal Moe]

I feel like that with a lot of music, but not all of it. I think it just speaks to how well it was made.

That being said, I don't think there's ever a time I wouldn't mind hearing Sex Packets by Digital Underground.

http://products.priceclash.co.uk/images/nodrop/220/B000000HHM/music/sex-packets-16.jpg

[Doctor Z]

go watch a yankee game.


(and if ya wanna watch em win, try yes classics.)

Baseball season ended.

[ChrisTheCop]

Baseball season ended.

For some, earlier than for others.

[Doctor Z]

Oddly enough, I knew that you were gonna say exactly that as I was typing that post.

[ChrisTheCop]

and yet, you hit the submit button.
thank you abbot.

[Death Metal Moe]

Baseball is gay, stick to the topic at hand.

[ChrisTheCop]

Baseball is gay, stick to the topic at hand.

altho i disagree with the 1st statement, I will attempt to get back on track.

Digital Underground, Run DMC, Young MC, Bz Markie, etc... are rap I still listen to. They were light hearted, often humorous, and fun. It seems like most of the new stuff is about bragging about their fake gangsta-ness, belittling women, and of course, killing cops.

[Rthentic]

If You came from the Era where NWA, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Etc... all existed side by side, meaning there was so much diversity, then Yeah, Hip Hop still holds up VERY Well. The stuff that has come out in the last ten or so years is another thing. But, The Stuff from I'd say 88-95, Yeah, There's some CLASSICS!!!!!
I'd put up Wu Tang's "36 Chmaber" or Nas' "IllMatic" or A Tribe Called Quest's "MidNight Marauders" or "Low End Theory" against any Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath or Beatles album any day.....And, I love those groups too.
By The Way, Producing a song for De La Soul is a carreer high light, Very Good Dudes.

[DolaMight]

As far as genre's go there's alot that can be thrown away, clones, (biters), basically the pop element. Then you're left with the rest who innovated the sound(on that next shit). Rakim holds up because he broke the goofy sounding 80's MC cadence delivery of Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash, Kool Mo Dee etc.. PE stands up because no other group could rip off that unique Terminator X sound. The early West Coast stands out because it's basically the proven legendary 70's funk hits redone with better vocals, although most of that doesn't because it was so easy to rip off. The mid-90's rap will be the last of existing rap to stand out because it was the genre at it's back to basic beats of the 80's with a proper MC style/flow. Mob Deep's Infamous, GZA-Liquid Swords, Goodie Mob-Soul Food, Gangstarr-Hard to Earn Tribe-Midnight Marauders. Main Source... etc All are raw basic albums that will stand up to anyone who can stand rap.

Anything else after that is closer to R&B vocally, Southern style beats and really will go down as just bad pop music.

The genre is 30 years old now, not many unique genre's have ever held that kinda lasting power without fallin off for long periods, (Punk, Funk, Soul, Metal, Alternative). That alone proves there should be plenty of lasting power and I bet 30 years from now alot will stand up as much as Motown does today.

[KnoxHarrington]

altho i disagree with the 1st statement, I will attempt to get back on track.

Digital Underground, Run DMC, Young MC, Bz Markie, etc... are rap I still listen to. They were light hearted, often humorous, and fun. It seems like most of the new stuff is about bragging about their fake gangsta-ness, belittling women, and of course, killing cops.

I agree with that, but I'd say that even the early "gangsta rap" at least had that ring of truth to it that it lacks now. I mean, a song like "Fuck The Police" by NWA does sound like it's coming from people who, well, want to tell the police to fuck off, who feel that the police have been fucking them over. Now, the "gangsta" pose just seems so contrived.

[DolaMight]

A Tribe Called Quest's "MidNight Marauders" or "Low End Theory" against any Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath or Beatles album any day.....And, I love those groups too.
By The Way, Producing a song for De La Soul is a carreer high light, Very Good Dudes.

When you say it was a career highlight producing a song for De La Soul did you mean a career highlight for Ali-Shaheed Mohammed or yourself? I'm confused.

[BoondockSaint]

Rap used to hold up gas stations. Now he's just a slumlord who paints carpeting into his apartments.

[fezident]

I don't think it holds up.
Nothin' against rap. I'm a fan.

However, the production on those tracks really marries it to the year it was released. All the old RUN-DMC and UTFO stuff has those dated boom-chicka-boom drums with those hilarious electronic sounds. It's the aural equivalent of, say, JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS or something like that. Very cool at the time but, by todays standards.......



I just heard "Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough" by Patty Smyth. There is NOTHING gimmicky about the SOUND of that song. If that version of that song was sitting in a vault until now, and was just released yesterday, it wouldn't matter. You wouldn't hear it and say "wow, 1991 much?". On the other hand... if you put on AMERIKKKAS MOST WANTED, it wouldn't sound very modern at all. If you heard that record today, for the very first time, you'd KNOW that it was an oldie.

[lleeder]

For me it all holds up. The stuff that is just silly and fun was the same way when it came out. I can listen to it and enjoy it if thats the mood I'm in. The stuff thats deep and meaningful still has meaning to me. I think if your a fan of the music you can enjoy any of it if your in the right mood :drunk:.

[Dan G]

When you say it was a career highlight producing a song for De La Soul did you mean a career highlight for Ali-Shaheed Mohammed or yourself? I'm confused.

I'm pretty sure Ali never produced anything for De La Soul.

Rthentic = Prince Paul???

[EddieMoscone]

I can go both ways here. Dr. Dre's The Chronic was and still is considered a classic, but when I listen now I wonder what I loved about it. These bands I do still listen to over a decade later:

Wu-Tang Clan
A Tribe Called Quest
Kool G Rap
Gangstarr
Nas
Boogie Down Productions
Brand Nubian
The Roots
Diamond D
Pete Rock and CL Smooth

...damn. Someone mentioned "The Golden Years" earlier. Anything from 87-92 pretty well holds up. Most Gangsta rap doesn't, with one of the exceptions being Ice Cube's earlier solo stuff.

[TheMojoPin]

On the other hand... if you put on AMERIKKKAS MOST WANTED, it wouldn't sound very modern at all. If you heard that record today, for the very first time, you'd KNOW that it was an oldie.

Could not disagree more.

Yes, granted, the early stuff from the first decade or so obviously sounds like the product of its time in term of the birth of the genre, just like early rock does on its side, but stuff from the late 80's and early 90's I don't think sound "daed in term of being bad or lesser at all. If anything, the production sounds better since it was typically more dense, layered and sample-packed. Production now may be cleaner, but it's generally much less complicated ad textured. Yes, some albums are obviously very of the moment, but pretty much every genre is aproduct of its time at that moment. Patty Smyth's song sounds like exactly when it came out. No, the quality of it hasn't dipped, but in terms of how it sounds it sounds like a product of its time. I don't see how that isn't applicable to the better hip-hop songs from the past.

How are these "dated" in terms of a gimmick?

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[Snacks]

I just finished listening to Naughty By Natures greatest hits and it still holds up strong. Rap is just like any other music if its good it will stand the test of time. Slick Rick's children story is a great song, anything biggie, run dmc, Wu tang, a tribe called quest and so much more are still great artists and are timeless.

[Rthentic]

When you say it was a career highlight producing a song for De La Soul did you mean a career highlight for Ali-Shaheed Mohammed or yourself? I'm confused.

Well, Ali never produced for De La, But was a part of and did incredible work as a member of A Tribe Called Quest. As for Me, I produced a song for De La Soul named "Turn It Out" on the Osmosis Jones SoundTrack, and Yes, Working with Pos & Dave was a fantastic time and learning experience.....They really gave Me the shot to stick My foot in the door. They're some of the greatest artists I've met, and taught Me alot about professionalism as well as Being A PERFECTIONIST!!!!! (Not screaming just emphasizing).

It was double great because Bill Murray talks over My instrumental as the vocals fade out for a good while. I Love Bill.

Peace

[JimBeam]

Mojo any way you can post the names of those vids you linked to ?
I'm lazy and don't wanna click on each one if it's not something I wanna hear.

I just added some old school EPMD to my playlist the other day and I still love it.

Yeah some of the lyrics may be corny but that's better than just uneccessarily cursing to sound shocking.

[Rthentic]

[QUOTE=TheMojoPin;1525783]Could not disagree more.

Yes, granted, the early stuff from the first decade or so obviously sounds like the product of its time in term of the birth of the genre, just like early rock does on its side, but stuff from the late 80's and early 90's I don't think sound "daed in term of being bad or lesser at all. If anything, the production sounds better since it was typically more dense, layered and sample-packed. Production now may be cleaner, but it's generally much less complicated ad textured. Yes, some albums are obviously very of the moment, but pretty much every genre is aproduct of its time at that moment. Patty Smyth's song sounds like exactly when it came out. No, the quality of it hasn't dipped, but in terms of how it sounds it sounds like a product of its time. I don't see how that isn't applicable to the better hip-hop songs from the past.

How are these "dated" in terms of a gimmick?

Thanks for those videos. Great GREAT Memories in those.
I think it's important to state, and this is a conversation I've had time and time again with friends.....The Hip Hop of yesterday is gone, and neither a good or bad thing. I hated the way Hip Hop was coming out starting in about 1997. The Shiny Suited Puffy & mase didn't cut it for Me at all. But, Now I just see that another era had come around like in anything else.
I still love My RUN DMC (Rest In Peace Jam Master Jay) Whodini, Just Ice, BDP, The Juice Crew, Busy B, Cold Crush Brothers, Fantastic Romantic 5 MCs, Etc.... (And The List go on VERY long indeed.....The music started in the Mid 1970's after all.....Peace To Kool Herc) all the way up to Wu Tang & Common & YES!!!!! Kanye, But.....Today the art is something else and is awaiting to be changed again.....Hopefully in a great direction, and Hopefully I'll have great part in that.

I was happy to hear someone mention "AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted".....That's Cube at His finest.....Lyrical Animal, and those Bomb Squad Beats (Public Enemy) didn't hurt either.

Peace & Monkey House

[Rthentic]

VIDEOS:

1) Pete Rock & CL Smooth - T.R.O.Y (They Remenisce Over You) (Tribute To Pete Rock's Brother that was Killed, Trouble T Roy, R.I.P)
2) Craig Mack - Flava In Your Ear (ReMix....And one of the best ever in my opinion)
3) The Pharcyde - Runnin' (Produced By Jay Dee AKA J Dilla.....R.I.P)
4) The Beastie Boys - Professor Booty
5) Souls Of Mischief - 93 To Infinity (CLAAAAAAAAAASSIC!!!!!)
6) Big L - Put It On (R.I.P)
7) GangStarr - You Know My Steez
8) Ol' Dirty Bastard - Brooklyn Zoo (R.I.P)
9) A Tribe Called Quest - Electric Relaxation (WOW)
10) KRS ONE - Step Into A World
11) NAS - The World Is Yours (ReMix By Q Tip) (Man, OH Man Is This CLASSIC!!!!!)
12) Common (Sense...Yes He had the drop the Sense part for legal matters) - I Used To Love H.E.R (Hip Hip in it's Essence & Real)
13) Ghetto Boyz - My Minds Playing Tricks On Me

Had some free time, Hoipe that helps
Peace

[JimBeam]

Sweet. Thanks.

I added some JustIce to my playlist the other day as well.

Only had the one real popular song ( Going Way Back w/ KRS1 ) as far as I can rememebr by name but I'm sure I liiked a few others.

[TheMojoPin]

Thanks for the list, Rthentic. I should have done in the first place. Cool to hear about the work you did with De La, too. Have you worked with anyone else big?

[Rthentic]

Thanks for the list, Rthentic. I should have done in the first place. Cool to hear about the work you did with De La, too. Have you worked with anyone else big?
I've done some songs with De La, Rubix & Kweli, C Rayz Walz, WordsWorth, Kwest The Mad Ladd, L Fudge, Etc....The list is going as We speak.....Working on my own albums now.....R.Thentic - AbraCadAbrA to be specific

Peace & Monkey House

[TheMojoPin]

Nice! I've got C Rayz's first album...did you work on that one?

[DolaMight]

Well, Ali never produced for De La, But was a part of and did incredible work as a member of A Tribe Called Quest. As for Me, I produced a song for De La Soul named "Turn It Out" on the Osmosis Jones SoundTrack, and Yes, Working with Pos & Dave was a fantastic time and learning experience.....They really gave Me the shot to stick My foot in the door. They're some of the greatest artists I've met, and taught Me alot about professionalism as well as Being A PERFECTIONIST!!!!! (Not screaming just emphasizing).

It was double great because Bill Murray talks over My instrumental as the vocals fade out for a good while. I Love Bill.

Peace

I was taken aback by the thought of someone here producing for such greats that's why I could only guess you were referring to Ali, I never thought he produced for them, just thought maybe you were referring to an obscure B-Side he produced for De-La given the native tongue connection.

FYI - speaking of De La, Stakes is High belongs on mojo's list
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BTW I'm honored to have held dialogue with someone who's produced for Wordsworth etc
J-Live and Wordworth are prime examples of hip-hop gettin back to it's mid 90's artistic peak... I keep it timeless because I take my time with it... hip hop is timeless and will forever endure

I'll be payin special attention to the CD inserts in the future lookin out for Rthentic

[Rthentic]

I was taken aback by the thought of someone here producing for such greats that's why I could only guess you were referring to Ali, I never thought he produced for them, just thought maybe you were referring to an obscure B-Side he produced for De-La given the native tongue connection.

FYI - speaking of De La, Stakes is High belongs on mojo's list
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BTW I'm honored to have held dialogue with someone who's produced for Wordsworth etc
J-Live and Wordworth are prime examples of hip-hop gettin back to it's mid 90's artistic peak... I keep it timeless because I take my time with it... hip hop is timeless and will forever endure

I'll be payin special attention to the CD inserts in the future lookin out for Rthentic

Thanks Man.....
I'm about to start some more work with WordsWorth soon. He's been picking beats and writing lyrics for the next album. I've got some roughs back already and they're turning out really great. I actually like the new stuff We're doing better the the last song I did with Him. He's SUPER Talented, AND Ridiculously underrated.
I'm also working on acouple of My own albums as we speak, So, I guess I'll keep You informed.

AND YES!!!!! Ron & Fez have many listeners from many many walks of life.

Peace
RTNC

[Rthentic]

Nice! I've got C Rayz's first album...did you work on that one?

Well, I did a song on His first Def Jux Album "RaviPops" named "Guns & Butter" and a song that He named after Me "R.Thentic" which was also the first single on His second Def Jux album "Year Of The Beast."
C Rayz Is Dope, AnOther UnderRated MC

Peace
RTNC

[fezident]

Bravo Rthentic! Thanks for banging out those video details. And, congrats on the high profile projects.


Lookin' forward to chatting with a fellow studio guy one of these days. Maybe we'll meet at an RnF event. Kick ass. I'll send you a private message in a bit.

[TheMojoPin]

Well, I did a song on His first Def Jux Album "RaviPops" named "Guns & Butter" and a song that He named after Me "R.Thentic" which was also the first single on His second Def Jux album "Year Of The Beast."
C Rayz Is Dope, AnOther UnderRated MC

Peace
RTNC

Very cool, Ravi Pops is the one I have.

Good call with J-Live, Dola. It's a crime how slept on he is.

[DolaMight]

more for Mojo's list

Chubb Rock,Jeru & O.C-Return Of The Crooklyn Dodgers
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Main source - Knockin at the front door
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peace
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O.C. - Time's Up
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Showbiz & AG - Next Level
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the symphony
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ED OG - LOVE COMES AND GOES
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Masta Ace Inc - Sittin On Chrome
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OGC - Hurricane Starang
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Most of these tracks employ a less is more production value, so simple so great

[EddieMoscone]

Good call with J-Live, Dola. It's a crime how slept on he is.

I second that emotion. The Best Part is one of the best hip hop albums ever.

He did one of the Roots holiday shows once where he DJ'd and MC'd on the same track (I think it was MCee). It was sick.

[TheMojoPin]

Isn't he an english teacher? Or he used to be one?

On a side note, why can't I hear any of the videos embedded in this thread? My sound is on and I can heard them all if I open them up in their own window at YouTube...what gives?

[Rthentic]

I second that emotion. The Best Part is one of the best hip hop albums ever.

He did one of the Roots holiday shows once where he DJ'd and MC'd on the same track (I think it was MCee). It was sick.

J Live is a really dope MC. And on the song You're talking about, "Braggin' Writes", He actually, I think still does, get behind the turntables and cut in the break of the break in live, No it's not a recording!!!!! He actually raps and DJs for himself on that song pretty much if not EVERY time out. He toured with My Homeboy L Fudge and DJ CrossFader for a while years back across Europe and such. I heard crazy tour stories that I'd have to get a verbal OKay to tell on here though, HAha.
And Yes, He used to be a teacher, out in Brooklyn I think. He's a graduate of SUNY Binghampton or Albany.....Yes, Some MC are actually Book smart as well as street smart, HAha

Peace
RTNC

[suggums]

gotta add at least one pick for now

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[Ritalin]

This is a great thread. I thought I knew a little, but I feel like I'm in school here.

[topless_mike]

in a few previous posts, i've always said that rap died out in '96

it will live on.
greats like slick rick, de la, das efx, pac, biggie, and even cypress will carry on. these were not only creative, but structured well and told stories (not all, but each song carried its own thought).

nowadays its about bitches, blunts, big rims, big screen tv's, and throwin heat at the po-po.

[topless_mike]

Could not disagree more.

Yes, granted, the early stuff from the first decade or so obviously sounds like the product of its time in term of the birth of the genre, just like early rock does on its side, but stuff from the late 80's and early 90's I don't think sound "daed in term of being bad or lesser at all. If anything, the production sounds better since it was typically more dense, layered and sample-packed. Production now may be cleaner, but it's generally much less complicated ad textured. Yes, some albums are obviously very of the moment, but pretty much every genre is aproduct of its time at that moment. Patty Smyth's song sounds like exactly when it came out. No, the quality of it hasn't dipped, but in terms of how it sounds it sounds like a product of its time. I don't see how that isn't applicable to the better hip-hop songs from the past.

How are these "dated" in terms of a gimmick?

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i think i have found my favorite post of all time.
while we have knocked thoughts many times, you have frolic'd up 2 rungs on my cool ladder, sir.

well done.

[Rthentic]

This is a great thread. I thought I knew a little, but I feel like I'm in school here.

I kinda feel the same way about Rock. I've been collecting records for years, but, because Hip Hop was My first Musical love all of those videos posted were so very much a part of My everyday norm at the time, and there's so much more when You start getting deeper into underground Hip Hop in those Mid to late 1990's (Natural Elements, Company Flow, JigMasters, the as mentioned J Live, Mike Zoot, LootPack, Slum Village, And On And On And On And On.....
I still find Myself stumbing upon some great Rock records that past Me by (anywhere from The Kinks To The Black Keys.....And admitidly some Nirvana & Chili Pepper greats).

Indeed, Great Thread

Peace
RTNC

[landarch]

I love this!!

I grew up down south in the 80's and the only radio station that wasn't country or gospel was a top 40 station about 50 miles away. Lots of Bryan Adams and Madonna and Bon Jovi. I was trapped in a schoolgirl's musical quagmire.

Public Enemy, Too $hort, and Warren G came to my rescue in due time, then in college came the Grateful Dead, Wilco, Widespread Panic.

Moving to NJ helped me to expand my rap knowledge, and I love all the old school beats and lyrics. Finally I was able to expand into artists such as the Beatnuts, the Alkaholics, The Click, Digable Planets, Nas, The Lox, Masta Ace, Mobb Deep, Redman, Ras Kass, Smif n Wessun, the list goes on.

And I have to disagree with those that say that rap died in the 90's. The last ten years have produced for us many great rap records, it's just that none of them are played on the radio.

[Dougie Brootal]

no way. rap is the disco of the new millenium. it will go away soon enough and all the little wigger kids will look back at these pictures and be thoroughly embarrassed.
http://www.vanmega.com/Icy_hot_Stuntaz.jpeg