MLB Offseason Discussion...HOT STOVE, SSSSSSSSS!!!

[PD]

we all blame epo.

I have to admit, I'm not upset that he is not going to pitch/hit in the NL.

[Kevin]

Don't forget the magical feeling of being a Yankee. When he first suits up in pinstripes it will be the best moment of his life, surpassing the birth of his children and his wedding day. Hold on. I can't type anymore through these tears.

Good point. When that happens, He is gunna go to the Yankees and give all the money back, and PAY the Yankees 7 years 160mil to pitch here. Although its going to be hard to take out a loan these days.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

A new 1.3bil dollar stadium to play in. And Manhattan, or very lovely Westchester, or the suburbs of Jersey. What did Wisconsin have to offer? a shack and two cows named Shirley and Laverne?

EPO, you so crazy.

And drowning in shitty beer. Schlitz, Old Style, Beast, Miller? That's hell to a man who has an obvious beer gut.

[El Mudo]

Can you break it down further? Those rankings are over the whole year, but it seems like his biggest workloads in recent season have been at the end, so the overall ranking isn't going to specify the breakdowns of when he was used more frequently or for longer starts.


Here's a great post I found about Sabathia and abuse (http://fanalytic.com/2008/10/15/cc-sabathia/)


Woolner also introduces a pitcher abuse metric called “STRESS”

The key element of the findings above is that more PAP for any given number of pitches leads to higher risk. This leads to the concept of using PAP/NP [NP = number of pitches] as a measure of how intense or stressful a pitcher’s pitches have been. I’ll refer to PAP/NP as “Workload Stress” or simply “Stress”.

Woolner finds some benchmarks in his STRESS metric that can help us determine whether a pitcher has been abused.

Over a quarter of pitchers with career Stress factors above 40 have suffered a major injury at some point during the time of the study, compared with less than 15% of those with career Stress factors below 20.

So pitchers who have Career stress factors under 20 have been handled with kid gloves, and pitchers with STRESS factors over 40 have been abused, anywhere in between 20-40 is fairly normal for a workhorse pitcher.

Here are CC Sabathia’s career STRESS factors.

2008 - 29
2007 - 17
2006 - 19
2005 - 7
2004 - 21
2003 - 17
2002 - 17
2001 - 17

So remember under 20 is very safe, handled well, CC was under 20 most of his career with 21 in 2004 and 29 this year. The danger zone is over 40… CC has never even gotten to 30 or above. So in terms of abuse on his arm, it doesnt exist, at least as far as excessive pitch counts are concerned.

This guy is a genius

Well J.C. Bradbury over at Sabernomics, has this to say: (http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/10/what-will-cc-sabathia-get/)

According to my projected marginal revenue product model, Sabathia will be worth $144 million for a six-year deal, which translates to $24 million a year. (If you’re not familiar with my model, it is based on recent performance and takes into account aging and league salary growth.)

[epo]

A new 1.3bil dollar stadium to play in. And Manhattan, or very lovely Westchester, or the suburbs of Jersey. What did Wisconsin have to offer? a shack and two cows named Shirley and Laverne?

EPO, you so crazy.

I knew that Sabathia was very likely gone, but I wanted him to go ANYWHERE but to New York. And this post is exactly why. This snide "NY is the king" shit wears so thin with the rest of the nation. Is it great? Yep. Are the rest of us hayseeds because of it? No and go screw.

Its not like Milwaukee doesn't have a beautiful stadium. Its not like CC didn't say that Milwaukee was the BEST clubhouse he ever spent time in. Its not like Milwaukee didn't make the playoffs last year, unlike the fucking Yankees.

Face it, 7 years is an amazing offer and he would be a fool not to take it. Its not like the Yankees are THAT special, its that 7 years/$170 million is a special offer.

[Kevin]

And drowning in shitty beer. Schlitz, Old Style, Beast, Miller? That's hell to a man who has an obvious beer gut.

Epo to his Boss. booo hooo hooo, i am not feeling to well. i can't come to work today. fake cough, booooo hooo hooo.

[Marc with a c]

nope. it is the history and tradition.

[Kevin]

I knew that Sabathia was very likely gone, but I wanted him to go ANYWHERE but to New York. And this post is exactly why. This snide "NY is the king" shit wears so thin with the rest of the nation. Is it great? Yep. Are the rest of us hayseeds because of it? No and go screw.

Its not like Milwaukee doesn't have a beautiful stadium. Its not like CC didn't say that Milwaukee was the BEST clubhouse he ever spent time in. Its not like Milwaukee didn't make the playoffs last year, unlike the fucking Yankees.

Face it, 7 years is an amazing offer and he would be a fool not to take it. Its not like the Yankees are THAT special, its that 7 years/$170 million is a special offer.

Of course it had nothing to do with the Yankees. Its all about the money. But do i care? nope..

[Kevin]

Anyone else notice that they put the muzzle on Hank?

You know last year he would be going ape shit and prob said something stupid, and pissed of CC.

[PD]

Former Cubs pitcher Kerry Wood agrees to deal with Cleveland Indians (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-10-winter-rumorsdec10,0,2321698.story)

there were too many reasons for CC to not turn down yankee money, and (assuming he pitches the way he did in Cleveland and Milwaukee) he's a perfect fit for Yankees.
Now the Union is happy as well.

I blame the dodgers and Barry Zito. If Zito doesn't sign stupid deal with Giants, they make good offer; Dodgers spend way too much like medium market club.

[PD]

In an on-air report for WFAN, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Yankees are closing in on a four-year, $66 million deal for free-agent pitcher Derek Lowe

[TheGameHHH]

In an on-air report for WFAN, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Yankees are closing in on a four-year, $66 million deal for free-agent pitcher Derek Lowe

I would prefer the two year deal with Sheets, but im one of the few that think the injury risk is worth the reward. The only thing I hate about Lowe? He used to pitch for the Red Sox.

[Snoogans]

Of course it had nothing to do with the Yankees. Its all about the money. But do i care? nope..

you will care in 4 years when CC is 500 pounds and 8-14 with a 6 ERA

[Snoogans]

I would prefer the two year deal with Sheets, but im one of the few that think the injury risk is worth the reward. The only thing I hate about Lowe? He used to pitch for the Red Sox.

i kinda wish the Sox go get him again. Fuck Burnett

[Snoogans]

oh and how are the yankees gonna give out 170 million to this fat fuck the day after they just asked the city for an extra 300 mill

[TheGameHHH]

oh and how are the yankees gonna give out 170 million to this fat fuck the day after they just asked the city for an extra 300 mill

they're two totally different subsets of money

[Snoogans]

they're two totally different subsets of money

yea id love to have so much money i can run out and still have 200 million plus whatever other deals you hand out

[PD]

According to Yahoo sports,
Opt-out clause key to Sabathia going to Yankees (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-sabathiayankees121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1)

The deal, according to a source close to negotiations, gives Sabathia the right to opt out of the contract after the first three years, by which time he will have been paid $69 million. Sabathia appreciated the clause because it satisfied concerns he had about living in New York and the impact it might have on his wife and three children.

He will make his opt-out decision after the 2011 season with four years and $92 million remaining on the deal, at which time he could renegotiate, leave or stay.

also according to LA Times, for Texiera The Boston Red Sox have emerged as front-runners, and the Washington Nationals, who appear willing to offer eight years and $160 million, could make the most lucrative bid.

[TheGameHHH]

yea id love to have so much money i can run out and still have 200 million plus whatever other deals you hand out

god it must be so tough rooting for those cash strapped Red Sox. how can a team in such poverty survive? i feel your pain.

cry me a river son

[Snoogans]

god it must be so tough rooting for those cash strapped Red Sox. how can a team in such poverty survive? i feel your pain.

cry me a river son

please motherfucker. The sox arent going to the city asking for fuckin money. Thats what makes me sick. The yankees are the biggest money maker prob except for like Man U or something, and yet they are begging for money AFTER THE SAID THEY WERENT GOING TO.


Dont try to turn the baseball economics into real life shit. yea the sox spend money on their team. THEIR OWN MONEY

[Snoogans]

and the sox still dont spend near like the yankees do. In fact, the Yankees, Mets and i think Detroit all spent more then the sox last year, and the yankees were like 75 mill beyond them. I love how you guys can sit and act like there is no difference in that shit

[TheGameHHH]

please motherfucker. The sox arent going to the city asking for fuckin money. Thats what makes me sick. The yankees are the biggest money maker prob except for like Man U or something, and yet they are begging for money AFTER THE SAID THEY WERENT GOING TO.


Dont try to turn the baseball economics into real life shit. yea the sox spend money on their team. THEIR OWN MONEY

they arent going to the city asking for money because they love cramping people into their lovely little 4,000 seat stadium. they just keep stacking people on top of each other.

if they ever decide to build a new stadium believe me they will be asking the city of boston for a little help.

[Snoogans]

they arent going to the city asking for money because they love cramping people into their lovely little 4,000 seat stadium. they just keep stacking people on top of each other.

if they ever decide to build a new stadium believe me they will be asking the city of boston for a little help.

you better believe you should check facts. The city already shot down 1 stadium, now they dont have room to build another one inside the city of boston. Thats the only reason they keep stacking people in. Cause the city told them no.

Not like the Yankees, who acted like they are building the whole thing private and have now received almost 300 mill and are asking for ANOTHER 300 mill. Come on man, wake up

[El Mudo]

According to Yahoo sports,
Opt-out clause key to Sabathia going to Yankees (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-sabathiayankees121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1)



also according to LA Times, for Texiera The Boston Red Sox have emerged as front-runners, and the Washington Nationals, who appear willing to offer eight years and $160 million, could make the most lucrative bid.

Take the money Tex...i'm BEGGING you...please please please please please take the money.

N-A-T-S Nats Nats Nats! :thumbup:

[TheGameHHH]

you better believe you should check facts. The city already shot down 1 stadium, now they dont have room to build another one inside the city of boston. Thats the only reason they keep stacking people in. Cause the city told them no.

Not like the Yankees, who acted like they are building the whole thing private and have now received almost 300 mill and are asking for ANOTHER 300 mill. Come on man, wake up

Ahhhhhhh, the Yankees said they were going to do something and then they didn't!!!!!!!! I hate them, I hate them so much!!!! They spend too much money, they ask for too much money!!!!! I HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

better?

[Snoogans]

Ahhhhhhh, the Yankees said they were going to do something and then they didn't!!!!!!!! I hate them, I hate them so much!!!! They spend too much money, they ask for too much money!!!!! I HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

better?

how about instead of putting on pinstriped glasses, you back up and beal real. Obviously i wasnt lookin for this bullshit, but be real. 600 million for a stadium that you said was gonna be 1.1 bill and all privately financed? Then all of a sudden its gonna be up to 600 mill, over half the original cost, paid for by the city, some of it in illegal under the table deals that city officials are going to be getting into alot of trouble over. When the government is giving out money, lets all cry poverty, right.

Then to turn around and give this deal.

It would be like GM going to ask for money to stay afloat and then turning around and tryin to buy toyota

[PD]

John Heyman at SI.com (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/30845)


LAS VEGAS -- Yankees co-owner Hank Steinbrenner is said by people close to him to want Manny Ramirez in pinstripes. Unlike his father, who dreaded dreadlocks, Steinbrenner the junior is said by a Yankees person "not to give a (hoot) about his hair.''
Just because the Yankees are about to sign CC Sabathia and are trying hard for two more great free-agent pitchers doesn't mean they're ignoring the offensive end of things. With about $160 million going to Sabathia, Mark Teixeira is all but out of the Yankees' picture. But even if they sign three free-agent pitches -- and if they don't get either Derek Lowe or A.J. Burnett, with Ben Sheets next on the radar -- the Yankees are mulling a run at Ramirez.
The Dodgers have been pursuing Ramirez, and if the Angels miss out on Teixeira, they might join the Manny fray as well.

[Snoogans]

thats the first time i think i ever agreed with hank on anything. If a guy can hit, who really does give a shit about his hair?

[El Mudo]

thats the first time i think i ever agreed with hank on anything. If a guy can hit, who really does give a shit about his hair?

Hell, with a lifetime OPS average of 1.004, and coming off a season where he OPS +'d 219, id let the guy play naked while burning the American Flag if he wanted to

[Kevin]

Hell, with a lifetime OPS average of 1.004, and coming off a season where he OPS +'d 219, id let the guy play naked while burning the American Flag if he wanted to



Manny might just do that if you asked him.

[NYHCmikeX]

Manny might just do that if you asked him.

Or if the idea randomly popped in his head.

Manny always seems like he is just about to look up at the sky and start spinning around in the outfield, like the spaz who played right field and we all played little league with

[Kevin]

And relax EPO, i was only fucking around with the wisconsin comments. Don't get your cheese panties in a bunch.

[HBox]

The City of New York should be honored to finance such a fine cathedral of baseball such as the New Yankee Stadium. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have their throats slit in front of their children, who shall than be forced to drink the spilt blood and sexually violate the corpse in every orifice. This includes skull fucking.

And 7 years is too long dammit.

[IMSlacker]

Every orifice? Damn.

[Kevin]

The City of New York should be honored to finance such a fine cathedral of baseball such as the New Yankee Stadium. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have their throats slit in front of their children, who shall than be forced to drink the spilt blood and sexually violate the corpse in every orifice. This includes skull fucking.

And 7 years is too long dammit.



Every state in america shoule have chipped in and paid for this national treasure. Why should only NY have to pay for this blessing to the country.

[foodcourtdruide]

Every state in america shoule have chipped in and paid for this national treasure. Why should only NY have to pay for this blessing to the country.

Why limit it to America??? The World benefits from that magical place. I'm crying again thinking about it. So beautiful. I can't wait to get a Joba Chamberlain tattoo next to my Don Mattingly tattoo.

[epo]

Why limit it to America??? The World benefits from that magical place. I'm crying again thinking about it. So beautiful. I can't wait to get a Joba Chamberlain tattoo next to my Don Mattingly tattoo.

What about your Ken Phelps tramp stamp?

[NYHCmikeX]

Why limit it to America??? The World benefits from that magical place. I'm crying again thinking about it. So beautiful. I can't wait to get a Joba Chamberlain tattoo next to my Don Mattingly tattoo.

A buddy of mine has the retired numbers from monument park tatted across his back.

I'm not joking.

[Kevin]

Why limit it to America??? The World benefits from that magical place. I'm crying again thinking about it. So beautiful. I can't wait to get a Joba Chamberlain tattoo next to my Don Mattingly tattoo.



The EU should have to chip in. I would say UN but Russia and China would Veto it, beacuse AMERICA AND THE WEST CAN'T HAVE SOMETHING THIS GRAND!!

[K.C.]

Yanks are still #3 in the AL East with or without C.C.

It'll take more than that.


But they HAD to make that move, don't get me wrong.

[drjoek]

Yanks are still #3 in the AL East with or without C.C.

It'll take more than that.


But they HAD to make that move, don't get me wrong.

You dont think the'yre done shopping do you?

[K.C.]

You dont think the'yre done shopping do you?

Of course not.

But caveat emptor to any team that puts their faith in Burnett and Sheets.

[K.C.]

I love that Teixiera is engulfing the BWI teams in a bidding war that will likely bankrupt which ever one signs him.

10yrs, 200 million?????????

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

The Yanks should hope Burnett goes to the Braves and they sign Lowe instead.

Burnett's numbers from a third of his starts last year:

4 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/5 ER
4 innings/ 8 ER
5 innings/ 8 ER
7 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 7 ER
5 innings/4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
7 innings/5 ER

Plus his injury history? Awful signing for the rumored money.

[foodcourtdruide]

The Yanks should hope Burnett goes to the Braves and they sign Lowe instead.

Burnett's numbers from a third of his starts last year:

4 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/5 ER
4 innings/ 8 ER
5 innings/ 8 ER
7 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 7 ER
5 innings/4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
7 innings/5 ER

Plus his injury history? Awful signing for the rumored money.

Agreed. He's getting such a huge contract and I just don't see it. As a Mets fan I hope the Braves get him.

[Kevin]

Yanks are still #3 in the AL East with or without C.C.

It'll take more than that.


But they HAD to make that move, don't get me wrong.

Thats ridiculous. How many wins do you think CC and Wang gives them? They were 6 games out without CC and Wang. The only real sp they had was Mussina.

They won 89 games with 1 sp.

[K.C.]

Thats ridiculous. How many wins do you think CC and Wang gives them? They were 6 games out without CC and Wang. The only real sp they had was Mussina.

They won 89 games with 1 sp.

Mussina won 20 last season....what, Sabathia's going to win 30???

Come on.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Rating a pitcher's worth by wins?

Savages.

[K.C.]

Rating a pitcher's worth by wins?

Savages.

No.

But there's only so many games he can impact as a starter.

That's the point

And when you factor what the Yankees lost, part of his signing is filling the gap of Mussina.

[Kevin]

No.

But there's only so many games he can impact as a starter.

That's the point

And when you factor what the Yankees lost, part of his signing is filling the gap of Mussina.

You can def make the case that they need to make more moves to make the WS and win it.

Wang fills the Mussina Wins. He had what 6, 7 wins before he went down? He wins 19 per.

They need another big bat. They lost Giambi and Abreu. The offense will not be as good.. And it wasn't really good last year either.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

No.

But there's only so many games he can impact as a starter.

That's the point

And when you factor what the Yankees lost, part of his signing is filling the gap of Mussina.

I agree totally in that a pitcher only going every 5 days helps make this deal even more insane, but tossing W/L records is still pretty moot in that and, well, every regard. It's a useless stat that should be banished from the universe.

That said, if the Yanks get Lowe, they've got a pretty choice rotation. Won't Joba be starting for them again next year or is he banished back to the bullpen?

[foodcourtdruide]

Funny that the Yankees learned nothing from the early 90's Mets and Isiah Thomas Knicks. Sometimes you have to struggle for a few years to make things right. Signing as many previous year allstars as possible does not give you a championship.

[joeyballsack]

Will CC be handling the pinch hitting duties for the Yankees also ?

Wasn't a big part of the problem last year being unable to get a hit with runners in scoring position ?

[Kevin]

except, unlike the Mets, and Knicks, they are actually signing good players. And what do u want them to do? Come back with the same team? They are going into a new stadium, charging a shit load. You have to improve the team. (unlike the mets who raised tix prices and want to REDUCE payroll)And since they get asked for twice as much in trades than anyother teams. The Fa route is really the only way they can go. Besides the Pirates of course.

[Kevin]

And THIS IS FOR YOU EPO!!!!

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/files/2008/12/sabathia1-450x303.jpg

[brettmojo]

I knew that Sabathia was very likely gone, but I wanted him to go ANYWHERE but to New York. And this post is exactly why. This snide "NY is the king" shit wears so thin with the rest of the nation. Is it great? Yep. Are the rest of us hayseeds because of it? No and go screw.

Its not like Milwaukee doesn't have a beautiful stadium. Its not like CC didn't say that Milwaukee was the BEST clubhouse he ever spent time in. Its not like Milwaukee didn't make the playoffs last year, unlike the fucking Yankees.

Face it, 7 years is an amazing offer and he would be a fool not to take it. Its not like the Yankees are THAT special, its that 7 years/$170 million is a special offer.

In all fairness going from Cleveland to Milwaukee is like going from living in an Port-a-Potty to living in a public bathroom. Sure it's going to be nicer but it's still not all that great.

In an on-air report for WFAN, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Yankees are closing in on a four-year, $66 million deal for free-agent pitcher Derek Lowe

I like Lowe... And he's so completely a better pitcher than Burnett.

I would prefer the two year deal with Sheets, but im one of the few that think the injury risk is worth the reward.

I've always liked Sheets. They should have gotten him a couple years ago. I guess Girardi really likes him as well and even went as far as to say that he'd rather get 150 innings or so out of him over getting 200+ innings out of some other mediocre pitcher.

you will care in 4 years when CC is 500 pounds and 8-14 with a 6 ERA

I think got 170 million dollars he can hirer perhaps a personal trainer or 30 to prevent that from happening.

i kinda wish the Sox go get him again. Fuck Burnett

x2. Fuck Burnett.

According to Yahoo sports,
Opt-out clause key to Sabathia going to Yankees (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-sabathiayankees121008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1)

There's two possibilities. Either he really doesn't want to pitch in NY or he really is worried about his family. The latter hopefully is the case, but obviously everyone is gonna' assume he's just there for the money since that thing came out the other day about him wanting to be a Dodger.

But if he really doesn't wanna' be there it's gonna' show eventually and the fans will pick up on it along with the media and he'll be eaten alive.

please motherfucker. The sox arent going to the city asking for fuckin money.

They just spent 22 billion building that fucking fiasco of a tunnel project. They'd be lucky to get a dime.

and the sox still dont spend near like the yankees do. In fact, the Yankees, Mets and i think Detroit all spent more then the sox last year, and the yankees were like 75 mill beyond them. I love how you guys can sit and act like there is no difference in that shit

2008...

<table width="425" align="center" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="2"><tbody><tr><td>Team</td> <td>Total payroll</td> <td>Average salary</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Yankees</td> <td>$209,081,579</td> <td>$6,744,567</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Tigers</td> <td>$138,685,197</td> <td>$4,622,840</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mets</td> <td>$138,293,378</td> <td>$4,609,779</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Red Sox</td> <td>$133,440,037</td> <td>$4,765,716</td> </tr> <tr> <td>White Sox</td> <td>$121,152,667</td> <td>$4,487,136</td></tr></tbody></table>


The Saaawwwwwxxxx were ready to make the same deal with Arod that the Yanks did to trade for him for what? Only 12 million less? And they also paid 50 million dollars JUST TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE CHANCE TO SIGN MATSUZANKA? If the Sox or any team had the cash flow the Yankees do, they'd spend too. Is it ridiculous? YES! But they can do it.

they arent going to the city asking for money because they love cramping people into their lovely little 4,000 seat stadium. they just keep stacking people on top of each other.

if they ever decide to build a new stadium believe me they will be asking the city of boston for a little help.

Nooooooo waaaayyy maaaaannnnn!!! They're not like the Yankees maaaannnnnn!!!

And relax EPO, i was only fucking around with the wisconsin comments. Don't get your cheese panties in a bunch.

Seriously, Wisconsin sucks. Why do you think those kids from That 70's Show always hung out in a basement? Because it was cooler than actually being seen in Wisconsin.

Every state in america shoule have chipped in and paid for this national treasure. Why should only NY have to pay for this blessing to the country.

They should however declared the old stadium a national monument.

A buddy of mine has the retired numbers from monument park tatted across his back.

I'm not joking.

Yikes.

The Yanks should hope Burnett goes to the Braves and they sign Lowe instead.

Burnett's numbers from a third of his starts last year:

4 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/5 ER
4 innings/ 8 ER
5 innings/ 8 ER
7 innings/ 6 ER
5 innings/ 7 ER
5 innings/4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
6 innings/ 4 ER
7 innings/5 ER

Plus his injury history? Awful signing for the rumored money.

He is awful. Let the Braves have him. Please.

Mussina won 20 last season....what, Sabathia's going to win 30???

Come on.

Wang really replaces Mussina, Sabathia is added to Wang, Joba, probably Pettitte... So then either Hughes or Kennedy or maybe some other young guy if they don't sign Lowe or someone else. The likelyhood of which is low.

You can def make the case that they need to make more moves to make the WS and win it.

Wang fills the Mussina Wins. He had what 6, 7 wins before he went down? He wins 19 per.

They need another big bat. They lost Giambi and Abreu. The offense will not be as good.. And it wasn't really good last year either.

They have Matsui back, who replaces Abreu. Posada will be back which is a huge improvement over Molina/Rent-A-Rod. They signed Swisher. They'll make a hard bid for Texiera. It that fails they just might make a move on Manny. I think the Sox will end up with Texiera. They still have an issue with center. I like Gardner and I think he can do the job, he's a role player they need in that line up. But who knows. They're talking about Cameron which I think sucks. Never liked him and they don't need another old guy. I think if they were really serious about him they wouldn't have signed Swisher. But what they really need is Arod to have another Arod type year and they need Cano to produce the numbers that everyone believes he's capable of.

I agree totally in that a pitcher only going every 5 days helps make this deal even more insane, but tossing W/L records is still pretty moot in that and, well, every regard. It's a useless stat that should be banished from the universe.

That said, if the Yanks get Lowe, they've got a pretty choice rotation. Won't Joba be starting for them again next year or is he banished back to the bullpen?

First, the said bullpen to start the season then starter later on just like they did last year. Now they've said he'll start. Must be nice to have your own organization not know what they wanna' do with you from day to day.

Funny that the Yankees learned nothing from the early 90's Mets and Isiah Thomas Knicks. Sometimes you have to struggle for a few years to make things right. Signing as many previous year allstars as possible does not give you a championship.

All they need to do is look at 2002-2008.

Will CC be handling the pinch hitting duties for the Yankees also ?

Wasn't a big part of the problem last year being unable to get a hit with runners in scoring position ?

It was a total lack of offense. Everyone pretty much sucked. That was a big part of it though.

[K.C.]

Wait, why does 'Wang replace Mussina?'

I didn't know we automatically pencil in guys with season ending injuries for 20 wins the next season?

A foot injury isn't as bad as an arm or shoulder, but it's still a dicey situation. Anyone who talks pitching will tell you he could be completely messed up mechanically for quite a while next season.

[K.C.]

Wang really replaces Mussina, Sabathia is added to Wang, Joba, probably Pettitte... So then either Hughes or Kennedy or maybe some other young guy if they don't sign Lowe or someone else. The likelyhood of which is low.


They could get Sabathia, Lowe, and Burnett and they still wouldn't have as good a rotation as Shields-Garza-Kazmir-Price-Sonnanstine or DiceK-Beckett-Lester-Wakefield-Tazawa (or Buchholz, or Masterson).

Yankee fans get hung up on the names and dollars way too much.

Can't wait until they trade Phil Hughes for the next Raul Mondesi.

[epo]

Seriously, Wisconsin sucks. Why do you think those kids from That 70's Show always hung out in a basement? Because it was cooler than actually being seen in Wisconsin.

Most people in NY are fucking idiots. At least thats what I learned by watching Friends.

Wang really replaces Mussina, Sabathia is added to Wang, Joba, probably Pettitte... So then either Hughes or Kennedy or maybe some other young guy if they don't sign Lowe or someone else. The likelyhood of which is low.

That's just silly.

[brettmojo]

Most people in NY are fucking idiots. At least thats what I learned by watching Friends.



That's just silly.
I meant low as in they'll definitely sign more another pitcher.

[brettmojo]

Wait, why does 'Wang replace Mussina?'
Wang has won 19 games each full season. Why not expect the same consistency this year?

[K.C.]

Wang has won 19 games each full season. Why not expect the same consistency this year?

I didn't know we automatically pencil in guys with season ending injuries for 20 wins the next season?

.

[brettmojo]

.
And he's ready to go for 2009. You can't figure on how this injury will effect/won't effect him. So really the only thing you can use to project what he should produce are his stats prior to the injury. He didn't require surgery... The rehabilitation is what kept him from pitching the rest of last year.

[Snoogans]

to brett mojo, since im far too lazy to quote that and delete the shit i dont mean


I didnt say the sox dont spend on players. But they dont spend near what the yankees do. And they dont throw around the years and say fuck it. They have let guys walk because they didnt want to give them a 4th year, something the yankees dont do. also, the sox would never offer 2 years and 40 mill more then anyone else and then up it again when it didnt work on a guy that OBVIOUSLY DOESNT WANT TO PLAY FOR THEM.

Look at how the sox spend. They have FAR fewer 10+ a year guys. Most of the spending they do is on the role guys and bench, which make more then most teams bench.

But the main point is, the sox also dont cry we have no money, we need money from the city and then turn around and hand out 160 million like its a quarter.

And i think I also read that all of the stadiums in boston, the arenas, gillette stadium and fenway are all privately funded. The city of boston doesnt give SHIT to the sports teams. Thats why i dont have a problem with boston spending, cause its their money.



also, and this last part is mostly opinion, but I think very true. All these teams who are spending now, including the sox and mets, are only chasing the yankees. The yankees started all the nonsense and the teams who had the means just started spending more to keep up. at some point if you do have the money, you are gonna spend it and not just let one team own the world.

And the sox were never going to sign ARod after he opted out. They did that to fuck with the yankees like they do to almost every player the yankees want. The only time they were really gonna take arod was in the trade from texas and they woulda STOLE him giving away just manny and having arod give back half his money. STOLE HIM

[Snoogans]

according to espn.com, the yankees just gave burnett a 5th year guaranteed also. have fun with this shit guys

[epo]

according to espn.com, the yankees just gave burnett a 5th year guaranteed also. have fun with this shit guys

From Jon Heyman: (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31141-yankees-offer-burnett-five-year-deal)

The Yankees are believed to have offered free-agent starter A.J. Burnett a five-year, $80 million deal. The Atlanta Braves are considered the other main contender for Burnett, and they offered him a four-year contract for $60 million with a vesting option for a fifth year. It isn't known yet whether Atlanta will match the Yankees' big bid. The Nationals, Orioles, Blue Jays and Red Sox also have spoken to Burnett's camp at the meetings.

The Yankees also remain very interested in free-agent starter Derek Lowe, having talked to him about a four-year, $60 million deal.

The City of NY should ask for their money back. Right now.

[Snoogans]

From Jon Heyman: (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31141-yankees-offer-burnett-five-year-deal)



The City of NY should ask for their money back. Right now.

and its gonna cost the city more then they asked for cause the city didnt have it. They are issuing bonds to get it, meaning not only will they have to pay this money back to the bond holders, but also pay interest to them so that they can get money THEY WONT EVEN GET TO USE cause it goes right to the richest team in the country

[epo]

So why do the Florida Marlins have such a hard-on for trading OF Jeremy Hermida?

[brettmojo]

And the sox were never going to sign ARod after he opted out. They did that to fuck with the yankees like they do to almost every player the yankees want. The only time they were really gonna take arod was in the trade from texas and they woulda STOLE him giving away just manny and having arod give back half his money. STOLE HIM
Well I was talking about the trade, not his opt out. If their deal didn't force a pay cut on Alex the player's association wouldn't have gotten involved.

according to espn.com, the yankees just gave burnett a 5th year guaranteed also. have fun with this shit guys

http://struff.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

[Snoogans]

Well I was talking about the trade, not his opt out. If their deal didn't force a pay cut on Alex the player's association wouldn't have gotten involved.

i love the revisionist history. Go back and read the stories. The sox didnt force anything. ARod offered to give that back when the sox said they didnt wanna take on that much money. They never asked him to do it. He wanted to. thats how much he hated texas. The PA wouldnt let him set that kind of precedent, thats why it was blocked

[epo]

Mets going after JJ Putz? (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020/Wednesday-MLB-winter-meetings-blog)

8:46 p.m. — Mets trying to land M's Putz

The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez — and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West.

J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources.

Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

The deal also would include one or more prospects, but it is not yet clear which players are headed where.

That would be quite the combo...K-Rod & Putz

[HBox]

I think we should sign every single free agent pitcher available and sort it all out in Spring Training. Those who don't make the staff will work as usher AND BETTER BE FUCKING GRATEFUL FOR THAT. If I catch one of those saying shit like "I have a 95 MPH fastball why am I telling people where to sit?" or "Why am I selling peanuts when I have a 12-6 curveball?" I will personally come up there and hang them from the upper deck rafters. If a HR ball hits the hanging corpse the whole crowd will immediately say a prayer of appreciation to Saint George for being able to be present in such a glorious place.

This shit is seriously ridiculous though. The Burnett thing is not only obnoxious but stupid. I can picture 5 years from now with $35 million going to Sabathia who weighs 400 pounds and lost a foot to diabetes and Burnett coming off his 4th Tommy John surgery.

[brettmojo]

i love the revisionist history. Go back and read the stories. The sox didnt force anything. ARod offered to give that back when the sox said they didnt wanna take on that much money. They never asked him to do it. He wanted to. thats how much he hated texas. The PA wouldnt let him set that kind of precedent, thats why it was blocked
Force was a poor choice of words. But that was what the deal would have done like you said.

[IMSlacker]

That would be quite the combo...K-Rod & Putz

Sounds like a buddy picture.

[Kevin]

I think we should sign every single free agent pitcher available and sort it all out in Spring Training. Those who don't make the staff will work as usher AND BETTER BE FUCKING GRATEFUL FOR THAT. If I catch one of those saying shit like "I have a 95 MPH fastball why am I telling people where to sit?" or "Why am I selling peanuts when I have a 12-6 curveball?" I will personally come up there and hang them from the upper deck rafters. If a HR ball hits the hanging corpse the whole crowd will immediately say a prayer of appreciation to Saint George for being able to be present in such a glorious place.

This shit is seriously ridiculous though. The Burnett thing is not only obnoxious but stupid. I can picture 5 years from now with $35 million going to Sabathia who weighs 400 pounds and lost a foot to diabetes and Burnett coming off his 4th Tommy John surgery.

Trade for Johan and make him cut the grass!

[brettmojo]

They always gave Wells shit for his weight...

David Wells


Height: 6-3
Weight: 248

CC Sabathia


Height: 6-7
Weight: 290

That's a lot of pinstripes. I wonder if they have any old Cecil Fielder uni's laying around.

[Snoogans]

i guarantee you sabathia is over 325

[brettmojo]

He'll get to pitch against the Indians during the Yankees first home series.

[razorboy]

i guarantee you sabathia is over 325

I talked to him before a game against the Rays once. He'd be one of the biggest offensive tackles in the NFL.

[K.C.]

So why do the Florida Marlins have such a hard-on for trading OF Jeremy Hermida?

http://www.mrnussbaum.com/1512.gif

[K.C.]

Mets going after JJ Putz? (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020/Wednesday-MLB-winter-meetings-blog)



That would be quite the combo...K-Rod & Putz

It's a Rosenthal rumor.

He throws more shit against the wall than anyone.

It would be a good add for the Mets, though.

I don't really get why the Mariners would trade him. It's a really bad market for closers and relievers. They're going to get a fraction of what he's worth in prospects, than if they wait until the trading deadline to shop him.

[cougarjake13]

It's a Rosenthal rumor.

He throws more shit against the wall than anyone.

It would be a good add for the Mets, though.

I don't really get why the Mariners would trade him. It's a really bad market for closers and relievers. They're going to get a fraction of what he's worth in prospects, than if they wait until the trading deadline to shop him.


plus he's been a closer for a while i know he cant prevent the trade but why would he want to come here knowing he'll just be a set up guy ??

[hammersavage]

Putz and K-Rod would be about a million times better than the end of last year's combo of Heilman to Ayala.

I'll drive Heilman and Carp there.

[cougarjake13]

Putz and K-Rod would be about a million times better than the end of last year's combo of Heilman to Ayala.

I'll drive Heilman and Carp there.



only thing is i'd hate for carp to turn into mike jacobs all over again


delgado is what 36 ?? 37 ??

[epo]

Mets could surrender 6 players in potential Putz deal: (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31161-mets-could-land-putz-in-3-team-mega-deal)

The Mets, Indians and Mariners are discussing a 12-player trade in which Seattle reliever J.J. Putz would go to the Mets. In the deal being discussed, the Mets would surrender six players, including outfielder Endy Chavez, relief pitcher Aaron Heilman and first base prospect Mike Carp. The Indians would be giving up rightfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

Putz was an All-Star in 2007 when he went 6-1 with 40 saves and a 1.38 ERA, but he struggled badly at times in 2008, finishing with 15 saves and a 3.88 ERA. The Mets signed Francisco Rodriguez this week to be their new closer, and Putz could be used as a set-up man.

[HBox]

Mets could surrender 6 players in potential Putz deal: (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31161-mets-could-land-putz-in-3-team-mega-deal)

It didn't take long to make a 7 year $160 million deal look like a calm, sober move.

[Knowledged_one]

He'll get to pitch against the Indians during the Yankees first home series.

your tune sure seems to have changed in the last 24 hours about old cc

[Kevin]

It didn't take long to make a 7 year $160 million deal look like a calm, sober move.

It will be brought back to Yankee land when they sign Burnett to a 5 year 100mil deal.

[epo]

No hard source on this, but I wouldn't be shocked if Ben Sheets signs with one of the Texas teams:

Sheets decides to keep house: (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/35937804.html)

Melvin said Sheets had his house in Dallas for sale but took it off the market, perhaps in anticipation of striking a deal with the Rangers.

And this one about Roy Oswalt in Houston willing to re-work his contract: (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6158281.html)

Oswalt, who was in Las Vegas with good friend Jake Peavy during the first two days of baseball’s winter meetings at the Bellagio Hotel and Casino, would like the Astros to sign another quality starter for the rotation.

“We need another starter,” Oswalt said via phone from Mississippi on Wednesday, a day after returning from attending country music concerts with Peavy in Las Vegas.

Oswalt and Sheets were fellow Olympians & are close friends. The Rangers really seem to be chasing pitching.

[HBox]

It will be brought back to Yankee land when they sign Burnett to a 5 year 100mil deal.

If they are so determined to sign a high injury risk they should go after Sheets. He'd sign for 2 years and he's actually good if healthy.

[Kevin]

If they are so determined to sign a high injury risk they should go after Sheets. He'd sign for 2 years and he's actually good if healthy.

That would make too much sense, and you know it.

[HBox]

The Rangers really seem to be chasing pitching.

Because they've developed one good pitcher in 20 years and they traded the good one for a drug addict.

[HBox]

That would make too much sense, and you know it.

I guess they need to spend the rest of that $300 million. Maybe it's like the Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska; if they don't spend it on SOMETHING they have to give it back.

[brettmojo]

your tune sure seems to have changed in the last 24 hours about old cc

Not only did they have to throw on another year and 20 million to an already desperate offer but they had to give him an out after three years in case he feels like leaving.

Embarrassingly desperate. But it's done. Have to live with it. Don't see how my... Tune... Has really changed.

I never said he wasn't a good pitcher. 23 million a year good though he is not.

[Knowledged_one]

Because they've developed one good pitcher in 20 years and they traded the good one for a drug addict.

thats a little harsh to say about hamilton dont you think

[epo]

Not only did they have to throw on another year and 20 million to an already desperate offer but they had to give him an out after three years in case he feels like leaving.

Embarrassingly desperate. But it's done. Have to live with it. Don't see how my... Tune... Has really changed.

I never said he wasn't a good pitcher. 23 million a year good though he is not.

The only other confirmed offer was Milwaukee's. They only had to offer him:

2 more years
$61 Million more
An out after 3 years.

[HBox]

thats a little harsh to say about hamilton dont you think

Harsh for the sake of a joke. Still a fucking lousy trade from the Texas end.

[Knowledged_one]

Harsh for the sake of a joke. Still a fucking lousy trade from the Texas end.

bad joke or not even one imo, and most analysts have widely been in favor of the deal for both sides

[Kevin]

Harsh for the sake of a joke. Still a fucking lousy trade from the Texas end.

Hey Boxy, wanna go kidnap his 24 hour guide, and watch and laugh as Hamilton gets like 10k worth of drugs?

WHO'S WITH ME?

[HBox]

bad joke or not even one imo, and most analysts have widely been in favor of the deal for both sides

Hamilton did it to himself so I could give a shit.

Most analysts are asses if that's the case. Texas' best pitcher last year was Vicente Padilla with his sterling 4.74 ERA and 1.46 WHIP. Volquez had an ERA of 3.21, 206 Ks and a WHIP of 1.33. They also were stacked in OF anyway.

Cincinnati traded from strength to fix a weakness. Texas has had horrible pitching and mashing offense for years and traded a stud young pitcher for more offense.

I'd much rather have Volquez heading a staff behind a lineup of Michael Young, Ian Kinsler and Milton Bradley.

[HBox]

Wow. The Mets actually went through with that JJ Putz trade. (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28168207/)

The breakdown:

Mets get:
JJ Putz, OF Jeremy Reed and RP Sean Green from Seattle

Indians get:
Luis Valbuena from Seattle
Joe Smith from NY

Marines get:
Aaron Heilmann, Endy Chavez and Mike Carp from NY
Franklin Gutierrez

[PD]

Wow. The Mets actually went through with that JJ Putz trade. (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28168207/)


does that mean you don't it good for the Mets?
if Putz is healthy, I'm damn happy

[hammersavage]

He'll be a hit with the jews with that name.

[goreds2]

It looks as though Seattle, Atlanta and Washington are interested in Adam Dunn.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/156677.asp?source=mypi

[TheGameHHH]

Putz has now filed a NY State Supreme Court petition to change his name to J.J. Putzcisco.

[Marc with a c]

i'll miss endy, but that makes the bullpen much better. putz is filthy when healthy.

what are we looking at here?

rodriguez
putz
ayala
wise
green

feliciano
schonsdjkwess

is that correct as of now? is schonenweis still around?

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

It looks as though Seattle, Atlanta and Washington are interested in Adam Dunn.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/156677.asp?source=mypi

The Cubs were never rumored to be looking at him, but I wish they would have. They want more power and a lefty bat...boom. Move Soriano to RF and play Dunn in LF. I'll happily take their relatively few defensive miscues out there in the face of the around 80 HR's a season they'd be producing between the two of them.

Love Dunn.

[K.C.]

Wow. The Mets actually went through with that JJ Putz trade. (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28168207/)

The breakdown:

Mets get:
JJ Putz, OF Jeremy Reed and RP Sean Green from Seattle

Indians get:
Luis Valbuena from Seattle
Joe Smith from NY

Marines get:
Aaron Heilmann, Endy Chavez and Mike Carp from NY
Franklin Gutierrez

Too much for a guy who doesn't want to setup. Great deal for Seattle. They get a starter, a 1B, and a OF for a reliever.

[epo]

Apparently the Mike Cameron to the NY Yankee talks are back on....

[PD]

Too much for a guy who doesn't want to setup. Great deal for Seattle. They get a starter, a 1B, and a OF for a reliever.

OF, yes.
1b and starter maybe.

Heilman was a very good 7/8 inning guy for a while. I know a number of teams think he can start, but that has yet to be seen; his stuff may not hold 2nd time through lineup (it didn't when he was young), plus they think his delivery will subject him to injury (like Kerry Wood) if he throws starters innings. Add to that the "Armando Benitez" type booing he'd be getting this season if he was here as a Met. Jason Vargas actually had looked promising in AFL, and I was looking forward to him competing for 5th spot.

Carp may or may not be a prospect- right now he probably projects more as a DH (He's probably below average defensively) and had been passed in mets system by both Evans and Murphy.

Putz was an allstar as a closer. His upside is high, but he was injured, and asked to step back from being closer. as for him being annoyed at being a setup guy,
in a report for the Seattle Times, Geoff Baker quotes Putz as saying:

“It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it… I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Francisco Rodriguez is a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen.”


It may not work out for Mets, but then again, I think it will be ok for all.

[PD]

Apparently the Mike Cameron to the NY Yankee talks are back on....

yes, ESPN seems to think Cameron for Melky Cabrerra. If that is it, Brewers are giving up this season.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/12/11/2008-12-11_sources_yankees_to_trade_melky_cabrera_t-1.html
(I'm not a big fan of Cabrerra)

[brettmojo]

yes, ESPN seems to think Cameron for Melky Cabrerra. If that is it, Brewers are giving up this season.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/12/11/2008-12-11_sources_yankees_to_trade_melky_cabrera_t-1.html
(I'm not a big fan of Cabrerra)
Cameron hit .243 with 25 HRs and 70 RBIs in 120 games last season in Milwaukee. He missed the first 25 games of the season due to a suspension for violating baseball's banned substances policy.

Reallu fucking great... :thumbdown:

[PD]

Reallu fucking great... :thumbdown:

Cameron's not big time average, but he's a 20/25 hr guy with Excellent defense.
OBP of .331 and slg of .477
Melky had OBP of .301 and slg of .341 last year.

NO comparison on defense.

melky's best feature is his age.

[epo]

yes, ESPN seems to think Cameron for Melky Cabrerra. If that is it, Brewers are giving up this season.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/12/11/2008-12-11_sources_yankees_to_trade_melky_cabrera_t-1.html
(I'm not a big fan of Cabrerra)

Actually Milwaukee is trying to get more left-handed bats in their lineup hence the reason to move Cameron on their end.

As for the Yankees...they acquire a very good defensive CF and a close friend of CC's. Also the newest rumor is that the Yankees also want Bill Hall from the Brewers who would be a $5M utility guy for NY. He also is a very close friend of CC's.

Apparently they want their newest investment to be very, very comfortable.

[foodcourtdruide]

Too much for a guy who doesn't want to setup. Great deal for Seattle. They get a starter, a 1B, and a OF for a reliever.

I read Minaya called him and he agreed to be a setup man. I think this was a great deal for the Mets. What key part did they lose exactly? And they added a setup man with a lot of upside. I'll miss Endy's glove and if Joe Smith is used properly I bet he'd be good, but the mets basically dumped a lot of what was wrong last year and got Putz.

[foodcourtdruide]

Cameron's not big time average, but he's a 20/25 hr guy with Excellent defense.
OBP of .331 and slg of .477
Melky had OBP of .301 and slg of .341 last year.

NO comparison on defense.

melky's best feature is his age.

I actually think Cameron would be a good fit on the Yankees. A great glove in CF would help that team.

[Kevin]

With Delgado done after this year, trading Carp is gunna hurt. But if u have that 8th inn locked down, its worth it

[foodcourtdruide]

With Delgado done after this year, trading Carp is gunna hurt

We shall see. Isn't Murphy's natural position 1B?

[Snoogans]

Actually Milwaukee is trying to get more left-handed bats in their lineup hence the reason to move Cameron on their end.

As for the Yankees...they acquire a very good defensive CF and a close friend of CC's. Also the newest rumor is that the Yankees also want Bill Hall from the Brewers who would be a $5M utility guy for NY. He also is a very close friend of CC's.

Apparently they want their newest investment to be very, very comfortable.

yea because he doesnt wanna be there

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Jesus Christ, the Cubs are going to curbstomp the fucking Central.

Likely about to get Peavy, hopefully signing Bradley...bring it on.

[Snoogans]

Jesus Christ, the Cubs are going to curbstomp the fucking Central.

Likely about to get Peavy, hopefully signing Bradley...bring it on.

too bad you dont get a WS for winning the Central

[PD]

With Delgado done after this year, trading Carp is gunna hurt. But if u have that 8th inn locked down, its worth it

Carp was passed by Murphy and Evans.
there is a lot of question on Carp - much of which is he seems an AL player (not good defensively at 1b).
We shall see. Isn't Murphy's natural position 1B?
Murphy was a 3bman, but he projects as a Dave Magadan-type 1bman.
(or in my dreams, Kevin Youkilis)

Mets MAY have given up good players, but they definitely filled a big role IF last year was an injury aberration.

Listening to XM MLB, there are still questions on Cameron/Cabrerra.
there may be another yankee prospect leaving, and/or there may be money being paid for Cameron to equalize.

If no money goes from Brewers, they speculate Brewers will go after Fuentes.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

too bad you dont get a WS for winning the Central

Make the playoffs more often, more of a chance to win it all. I'll happily take the Cubs reguarly making it and collapsing over them sneaking in once every 10, 15 or 20 years.

[Snoogans]

Make the playoffs more often, more of a chance to win it all. I'll happily take the Cubs reguarly making it and collapsing over them sneaking in once every 10, 15 or 20 years.

easy to say in december. you werent so happy about taking it in october

[K.C.]

I read Minaya called him and he agreed to be a setup man. I think this was a great deal for the Mets. What key part did they lose exactly? And they added a setup man with a lot of upside. I'll miss Endy's glove and if Joe Smith is used properly I bet he'd be good, but the mets basically dumped a lot of what was wrong last year and got Putz.



It should raise eyebrows in the sense that they could have had Fuentes for no talent.

Putz is a high risk / high reward to me. The gamble is that he gives the Mets what he gave Seattle in 07. There's a lot of red flags, though, when you look at his injury, his numbers away from SAFECO, his numbers in middle relief situations.

I didn't think Heilman had trade value, but I do think he has value as a starter. Carp's a decent prospect. I like Joe Smith a lot. It would not surprise me if he's a future closer. Chavez is the only real garbage piece to the deal.

All I'll say is it's a risk. More than it appears on the surface.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

easy to say in december. you werent so happy about taking it in october

Actually, check my posts then. Since 2004, they can't get to me. Whatever happens happens.

[Snoogans]

Actually, check my posts then. Since 2004, they can't get to me. Whatever happens happens.

you were pissed on aim son. You put on a good show on the board, but i know you cried yourself to sleep in your billy goat pajamas

[foodcourtdruide]

It should raise eyebrows in the sense that they could have had Fuentes for no talent.

Putz is a high risk / high reward to me. The gamble is that he gives the Mets what he gave Seattle in 07. There's a lot of red flags, though, when you look at his injury, his numbers away from SAFECO, his numbers in middle relief situations.

I didn't think Heilman had trade value, but I do think he has value as a starter. Carp's a decent prospect. I like Joe Smith a lot. It would not surprise me if he's a future closer. Chavez is the only real garbage piece to the deal.

All I'll say is it's a risk. More than it appears on the surface.

I think Heilman may surface as a decent starter in Seattle, but he had no future on the Mets and I'm amazed they got anything for him.

I agree it's a risk, but a risk definitely worth taking. I think Joe Smith is the only real thing they gave up in the deal. From what I've read Carp is no where near a top tier prospect.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

you were pissed on aim son. You put on a good show on the board, but i know you cried yourself to sleep in your billy goat pajamas

Lies. YOU ARE MADE OF LIES. YOU ARE LIKE A GIANT PIE OF LIE.

[Creepo]

Actually Milwaukee is trying to get more left-handed bats in their lineup hence the reason to move Cameron on their end.

As for the Yankees...they acquire a very good defensive CF and a close friend of CC's. Also the newest rumor is that the Yankees also want Bill Hall from the Brewers who would be a $5M utility guy for NY. He also is a very close friend of CC's.

Apparently they want their newest investment to be very, very comfortable.

I say we try to unload all of our black players to the Yankees. Snart move

[Snoogans]

Lies. YOU ARE MADE OF LIES. YOU ARE LIKE A GIANT PIE OF LIE.

cant handle the pressure? That Facade is cracking under the weight of wasted years of losing

[Snoogans]

I say we try to unload all of our black players to the Yankees. Snart move

Welcome to the board, Mr Epstein

[Creepo]

Cameron deal may not happen now.

Brewers want more than just that common center fielder Melky, plus they want the Yanks to pick up some of the contract

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8927094/Source:-Cameron-to-Yanks-trade-hits-roadblock

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Cameron deal may not happen now.

Brewers want more than just that common center fielder Melky, plus they want the Yanks to pick up some of the contract

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8927094/Source:-Cameron-to-Yanks-trade-hits-roadblock

That's only fair, since Melky is beyond awful.

[Snoogans]

That's only fair, since Melky is beyond awful.

i musta missed the week when Mike Cameron became a HOFer. Fuck them both, they are both ass

[spadanko]

The Mike Cameron trade is not done and may not get done.

The Yankees will need to have a change of heart for it to happen, one source familiar with the discussion said.

The Brewers are asking for a second player in addition to Melky Cabrera. The Yankees want the Brewers to pay a portion of Cameron's $10 million salary.

Milwaukee is not inclined to fulfill that request at a time when the Yankees are on the verge of paying over $200 million for pitchers CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.

The New York Post first reported the possibility of a Cameron-Cabrera swap on Nov. 6 from the GM Meetings and reported Thursday that the deal was "close."

Cameron could make the transition to New York easier for CC Sabathia — who the Yankees reached an agreement with Wednesday. Cameron played with the Mets from 2004-2005, so he knows the city. He quickly became Sabathia's pal in Milwaukee after the Brewers obtained him last July from the Indians.

[foodcourtdruide]

i musta missed the week when Mike Cameron became a HOFer. Fuck them both, they are both ass

Cameron is a great fielder with good pop. He would improve the Yankees.

[epo]

From Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/35967404.html)

I just talked to members of the Brewers traveling party and they said the Mike Cameron-for-Melky Cabrera deal is not done, despite reports it has been completed.

This isn't saying that it won't get done but apparently something has snagged it that could blow it up. Either the Brewers don't think they're getting enough back for Cameron or the Yankees want them to eat some of Cameron's $10 million salary.

How could the Yankees bid against themselves for CC Sabathia, increasing their offer from $140 million to $161 million, then ask the Brewers to eat some of Cameron's contract? If that's what's happening, you can imagine the Brewers' amazement and frustration.

And, apparently the Yankees' interest in getting the Brewers to add third baseman Bill Hall to the deal has gone nowhere. I heard New York was trying to get the Brewers to take back Japanese lefty Kei Igawa, who is owed a bunch of money and was such a flop that he was sent to the minors last year.

Igawa is owed $4 million in each of the next three seasons. He has gone 2-4 with a 6.66 ERA in 16 games since the Yankees signed him, so you can see why the Brewers weren't interested.

There have been reports out of New York that an agreement had been reached but my Brewers sources said that is absolutely false. They said the deal still could happen but not if the Yankees don't move off their current position.

[Snoogans]

Cameron is a great fielder with good pop. He would improve the Yankees.

yea cause he handled playin in NY so well as a Met. FUCK THAT. He is garbage

[foodcourtdruide]

yea cause he handled playin in NY so well as a Met. FUCK THAT. He is garbage

His NY numbers weren't that bad! You can't be mad at the guy for getting hurt the way he did.

[Snoogans]

His NY numbers weren't that bad! You can't be mad at the guy for getting hurt the way he did.

but i remember him also not being that great on d for the time he was healthy. Anything after that collision i understand. that shit was nasty. but even before, i remember not being impressed

[brettmojo]

I say we try to unload all of our black players to the Yankees. Snart move

Yup, snart.

Cameron deal may not happen now.

Brewers want more than just that common center fielder Melky, plus they want the Yanks to pick up some of the contract

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8927094/Source:-Cameron-to-Yanks-trade-hits-roadblock

Please please please...

yea cause he handled playin in NY so well as a Met. FUCK THAT. He is garbage
Agreed.

[foodcourtdruide]

but i remember him also not being that great on d for the time he was healthy. Anything after that collision i understand. that shit was nasty. but even before, i remember not being impressed

Wasn't the Yankees outfield defense terrible last year? He'd be an improvement.

[Snoogans]

Wasn't the Yankees outfield defense terrible last year? He'd be an improvement.

fuck the yankees and there outfield.

[foodcourtdruide]

fuck the yankees and there outfield.

Agreed.

[brettmojo]

Wasn't the Yankees outfield defense terrible last year? He'd be an improvement.
You don't fix a knife wound by putting a band aid on it.

I'd be happy with Gardner in center to start the season. We don't need every fucking person in that lineup to hit 25 home runs.

[Snoogans]

You don't fix a knife wound by putting a band aid on it.

I'd be happy with Gardner in center to start the season. We don't need every fucking person in that lineup to hit 25 home runs.

i do like the idea of the entire lineup striking out 150 times though

[Kevin]

fuck the yankees and there outfield.

Alyssa Malano already did. Along with every other OF in baseball.

[brettmojo]

Alyssa Malano already did. Along with every other OF in baseball.
I think she only fucks pitchers.

Though she is currently fucking Russel Martin apparently.

[TheGameHHH]

i do like the idea of the entire lineup striking out 150 times though

me too, less than one strikeout per game. im down with that

[PD]

It should raise eyebrows in the sense that they could have had Fuentes for no talent.
.
no.
Fuentes told them he doesn't want to set up (not to mention there is a draft pick); even Hoffman still want's to close.
they had choices as FA; putz doesn't.

so it was Street or Putz.

[Snoogans]

me too, less than one strikeout per game. im down with that

except x 9

[Snoogans]

as much as i hate philly, cole hamels might be my new favorite player. he is on WFAN right now with Joe and Evan and is KILLING evan and the mets. He called the mets choke artists. FUCKIN AWESOME

[PD]

as much as i hate philly, cole hamels might be my new favorite player. he is on WFAN right now with Joe and Evan and is KILLING evan and the mets. He called the mets choke artists. FUCKIN AWESOME

he was on XM this morning.
good guy it seems.

[SuperKarateMonkeyDeathFez]

Peavy to the Cubs off, at least for now.

Padres wanted like 5-6 players in return...no dice.

This is still likely to eventually get done since Peavy seems to be pushing for the Cubs and has his NTC. The Padres have to move him to free up money...he will ultimately be traded. This is Hendry trying to drive down the price.

[epo]

'No way' Brewers pay Cameron tab (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/35975189.html)
A Brewers official just told me there’s “no way” the Brewers would pick up any of Mike Cameron’s $10 million salary for 2009 to facilitate a trade with the Yankees unless New York added more than centerfielder Melky Cabrera to the deal.

Talks apparently broke off early this morning when the Yankees not only offered only Cabrera but asked the Brewers to pick up some of Cameron’s salary.

This is the same New York team that paid Brewers free agent lefty CC Sabathia $161 million yesterday -- $61 million more than the Brewers offered – and has some $90 million on the table in an attempt to sign free agent A.J. Burnett.

So, the sides might not even talk again before leaving the winter meetings later today. I’m guessing the Brewers are pretty cheesed off right now so they’re probably not in the mood to resume talks today unless the Yankees come back and drop the money request or add a pitching prospect.

We have a briefing later with general manager Doug Melvin, so I’ll let you know where this stands before everybody gets out of here today.

That's hilarious. The Yankees tried to cost-shift to the smaller market Brewers and Doug Melvin told Cashman to fuck off. Awesome.

[IMSlacker]

'No way' Brewers pay Cameron tab (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/35975189.html)


That's hilarious. The Yankees tried to cost-shift to the smaller market Brewers and Doug Melvin told Cashman to fuck off. Awesome.

Hey, that Sabathia contract isn't going to pay itself.

[epo]

Hey, that Sabathia contract isn't going to pay itself.

Good thing they have the City of NY paying their bills these days. :wallbash:

[NYHCmikeX]

That's hilarious. The Yankees tried to cost-shift to the smaller market Brewers and Doug Melvin told Cashman to fuck off. Awesome.


Good, I dont want Cameron here anyway. He's a clubhouse problem and just sucks in general. I'd rather melky hit .230 and play good defense than Cameron hit .255 and play mediocre-bad defense.

[epo]

Good, I dont want Cameron here anyway. He's a clubhouse problem and just sucks in general. I'd rather melky hit .230 and play good defense than Cameron hit .255 and play mediocre-bad defense.

Haha. Are you kidding me?

If you think Melky Cabrera is better in the field than Mike Cameron...then you and I don't digest the game in the same way. There is a reason that Cameron has 3 Gold Gloves and thats because he is very damned good in the field.

[spadanko]

as much as i hate philly, cole hamels might be my new favorite player. he is on WFAN right now with Joe and Evan and is KILLING evan and the mets. He called the mets choke artists. FUCKIN AWESOME

people are gonna go way over board with this interview. it wasn't that bad at all

[KingModem]

Twins resign Nick Punto for 2 years, $8.5M (http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/neal/2008/12/11/nick-punto-signs-with-twins/)

Waste of money.:wallbash:

[foodcourtdruide]

Good, I dont want Cameron here anyway. He's a clubhouse problem and just sucks in general. I'd rather melky hit .230 and play good defense than Cameron hit .255 and play mediocre-bad defense.

Christ, what has Mike Cameron done to the members of this board?! He's not great, but he's better than Cabrera in the field!

[Snoogans]

people are gonna go way over board with this interview. it wasn't that bad at all

no but it was a rare honest interview. Rather then hold back and be PC, he was honest. he didnt say anything really negative, but he answered the questions truthfully and ripped the mets. how can you not love a guy for that

[brettmojo]

Gardner > Melky > Cameron

[Snoogans]

Christ, what has Mike Cameron done to the members of this board?! He's not great, but he's better than Cabrera in the field!

yea i think cameron is garbage, but even i know its better then melky

[NYHCmikeX]

Haha. Are you kidding me?

If you think Melky Cabrera is better in the field than Mike Cameron...then you and I don't digest the game in the same way. There is a reason that Cameron has 3 Gold Gloves and thats because he is very damned good in the field.

Cameron is also 35 and is losing range. When he was with Seattle in like 2001, he was great in the field. With Nady and Damon in the corners, the yankees will need someone who can eat up serious room (melky, gardner or jackson) and preferably has a strong throwing arm too (cameron's is better than Gardner, but not near Melky's). He also strikes out 150 times a season and I'd be shocked if he ever hit over .280.

He's also just a dick.

I would also rather have Swisher play center and Miranda play first, but thats just me and I hate Cameron.

[Snoogans]

Cameron is also 35 and is losing range. When he was with Seattle in like 2001, he was great in the field. With Nady and Damon in the corners, the yankees will need someone who can eat up serious room (melky, gardner or jackson) and preferably has a strong throwing arm too (cameron's is better than Gardner, but not near Melky's). He also strikes out 150 times a season and I'd be shocked if he ever hit over .280.

He's also just a dick.

melky isnt that fast and he doesnt eat up a ton of room. not in the times ive seen him out there

[brettmojo]

melky isnt that fast and he doesnt eat up a ton of room. not in the times ive seen him out there
Then you haven't seen him enough.

[Snoogans]

oh well, let me cast melky my HOF vote. FUCK THAT. he is shit. he hits like shit, his range is avg for a CF at best, and he doesnt always take good angles. ive seen enough yankee games to know he isnt fuckin andruw jones. he isnt even andruw jones right now

[NYHCmikeX]

melky isnt that fast and he doesnt eat up a ton of room. not in the times ive seen him out there

I think he covers more ground in the OF then you would think from his baserunning, like Bernie used to.

[epo]

Gardner > Melky > Cameron

You talk this shit and you want to talk about baseball with grown-ups?

[NYHCmikeX]

oh well, let me cast melky my HOF vote. FUCK THAT. he is shit. he hits like shit, his range is avg for a CF at best, and he doesnt always take good angles. ive seen enough yankee games to know he isnt fuckin andruw jones. he isnt even andruw jones right now

I didnt say he was great. I said I'd rather have him than a guy who is 10+ years older than him and on the downside of his career.

[Snoogans]

I didnt say he was great. I said I'd rather have him than a guy who is 10+ years older than him and on the downside of his career.

its for one year, and this was in response to brettmojo's insanity anyway.

Ironically, both Melky and Cameron were BOTTOM 5 in range factor among CF's last season. just sayin

[Snoogans]

I think he covers more ground in the OF then you would think from his baserunning, like Bernie used to.

Bernie Williams today covers more ground then melky. Period

[NYHCmikeX]

Ironically, both Melky and Cameron were BOTTOM 5 in range factor among CF's last season. just sayin

No shit? how do they figure that? And who was at the top? I never heard that stat before.

[Snoogans]

No shit? how do they figure that? And who was at the top? I never heard that stat before.

they do something with where the fly balls they caught were and balls they didnt get to were and cross compare

espn lists the stat, you would be surprised by alot of it

[Snoogans]

Carlos Gomez, Min 151 143 1272.2 453 436 9 8 4 .982 3.15 .932
Aaron Rowand, SF 149 148 1275.1 422 412 6 4 0 .991 2.95 .883
B.J. Upton, TB 143 141 1249.2 401 378 16 7 5 .983 2.84 .879
Curtis Granderson, Det 140 131 1188.0 375 366 5 4 1 .989 2.81 .897
Adam Jones, Bal 129 123 1102.0 343 336 4 3 1 .991 2.78 .916
Corey Patterson, Cin 124 82 798.0 248 242 3 3 1 .988 2.76 .901
Carlos Beltran, NYM 158 158 1407.1 429 418 8 3 1 .993 2.72 .899
Michael Bourn, Hou 130 111 1009.0 305 291 9 5 2 .984 2.68 .839
Josh Hamilton, Tex 111 107 912.0 276 268 3 5 3 .982 2.67 .871
Torii Hunter, LAA 137 137 1193.1 354 350 4 0 0 1.000 2.67 .881
Nate McLouth, Pit 149 148 1300.1 386 380 5 1 1 .997 2.66 .852
Lastings Milledge, Was 134 134 1186.2 354 348 1 5 0 .986 2.65 .864
Willy Taveras, Col 124 110 993.0 295 282 6 7 2 .976 2.61 .875
Grady Sizemore, Cle 151 151 1338.0 386 382 2 2 1 .995 2.58 .909
Melky Cabrera, NYY 117 109 974.2 283 272 7 4 1 .986 2.58 .917
Chris Young, Ari 159 157 1390.0 401 393 5 3 2 .993 2.58 .889
Mike Cameron, Mil 119 119 1057.0 297 293 3 1 0 .997 2.52 .892
Coco Crisp, Bos 114 98 886.0 240 234 4 2 1 .992 2.42 .826
Shane Victorino, Phi 139

sorted by range factor best to worst from last season. Sorry i didnt get victorino's stats, but fuck him, he is a Phillie

[IMSlacker]

Range Factor = (Putouts + Assists)/Innings

[NYHCmikeX]

Melky is 2nd in zone rating though, which seems like it means he catches balls that should be caught. I never would have picked Victorino as having the worst range if I had to guess. Melky is in the bottom of the barrell in range cause his season was shortened due to his inability to hit. (although I think Cameron's was too due to injury)

[Snoogans]

Melky is 2nd in zone rating though, which seems like it means he catches balls that should be caught. I never would have picked Victorino as having the worst range if I had to guess.

yea me either, and i thought it had more to do with spots on the field and less just numbers. Putouts + Assists is stupid now. Shit manny would rack up assists all the time cause he had to throw 50 feet

[NYHCmikeX]

yea me either, and i thought it had more to do with spots on the field and less just numbers. Putouts + Assists is stupid now. Shit manny would rack up assists all the time cause he had to throw 50 feet

And, for the most part, if you have great range, you dont get many assists because people rarely run on the CF if they are tagging up. If a ball drops in front of you, you have a good chance to throw someone out.

[Snoogans]

And, for the most part, if you have great range, you dont get many assists because people rarely run on the CF if they are tagging up. If a ball drops in front of you, you have a good chance to throw someone out.

so stupid. Half these stats are retarded

[IMSlacker]

Most defensive stats aren't very good.

[NYHCmikeX]

Most stats are retarded, I cant stand when people constantly harp on them like stats win games before they are played.

I also heard that the Brewers might take Igawa in exchange for picking up some of Cameron's deal. In which case, I'll flip-flop on my point and welcome Cameron because Igawa is Hideki "Fat-Pussie Toad" Irabu part Deux.

[Snoogans]

Most stats are retarded, I cant stand when people constantly harp on them like stats win games before they are played.

I also heard that the Brewers might take Igawa in exchange for picking up some of Cameron's deal. In which case, I'll flip-flop on my point and welcome Cameron because Igawa is Hideki "Fat-Pussie Toad" Irabu part Deux.

a certain poster on this board tried like hell last year to use these asinine stats to show how clutch ARod is, despite the fact that ANYONE who watched any yankee games saw ARod constantly fuck up in big spots. But these stats which count an RBI single in the first inning as clutch no matter what the score said ARod was clutch

[foodcourtdruide]

Range Factor = (Putouts + Assists)/Innings

That is a really stupid stat.

[foodcourtdruide]

a certain poster on this board tried like hell last year to use these asinine stats to show how clutch ARod is, despite the fact that ANYONE who watched any yankee games saw ARod constantly fuck up in big spots. But these stats which count an RBI single in the first inning as clutch no matter what the score said ARod was clutch

THERE'S NO STAT FOR GRIT!!!@#$!#$!

[brettmojo]

You talk this shit and you want to talk about baseball with grown-ups?

Melky is cheaper, Melky is younger, Melky's fielding vs. Cameron's fielding is a push, he slumped at a bad time when it couldn't be overlooked because the rest of the team was awful as well and you can fuck yourself.

I like Gardner for what he brings to the base running game, when he gets on base he makes shit happen, he had a good showing in September. Which granted, means shit, but still is better than what Melky did last year.

I didnt say he was great. I said I'd rather have him than a guy who is 10+ years older than him and on the downside of his career.

Bingo.

its for one year, and this was in response to brettmojo's insanity anyway.

Ironically, both Melky and Cameron were BOTTOM 5 in range factor among CF's last season. just sayin

Which only proves my point. It's not a move for any baseball related benefit. It's so Sabathia has someone to hold hands with.

Carlos Gomez, Min 151 143 1272.2 453 436 9 8 4 .982 3.15 .932
Aaron Rowand, SF 149 148 1275.1 422 412 6 4 0 .991 2.95 .883
B.J. Upton, TB 143 141 1249.2 401 378 16 7 5 .983 2.84 .879
Curtis Granderson, Det 140 131 1188.0 375 366 5 4 1 .989 2.81 .897
Adam Jones, Bal 129 123 1102.0 343 336 4 3 1 .991 2.78 .916
Corey Patterson, Cin 124 82 798.0 248 242 3 3 1 .988 2.76 .901
Carlos Beltran, NYM 158 158 1407.1 429 418 8 3 1 .993 2.72 .899
Michael Bourn, Hou 130 111 1009.0 305 291 9 5 2 .984 2.68 .839
Josh Hamilton, Tex 111 107 912.0 276 268 3 5 3 .982 2.67 .871
Torii Hunter, LAA 137 137 1193.1 354 350 4 0 0 1.000 2.67 .881
Nate McLouth, Pit 149 148 1300.1 386 380 5 1 1 .997 2.66 .852
Lastings Milledge, Was 134 134 1186.2 354 348 1 5 0 .986 2.65 .864
Willy Taveras, Col 124 110 993.0 295 282 6 7 2 .976 2.61 .875
Grady Sizemore, Cle 151 151 1338.0 386 382 2 2 1 .995 2.58 .909
Melky Cabrera, NYY 117 109 974.2 283 272 7 4 1 .986 2.58 .917
Chris Young, Ari 159 157 1390.0 401 393 5 3 2 .993 2.58 .889
Mike Cameron, Mil 119 119 1057.0 297 293 3 1 0 .997 2.52 .892
Coco Crisp, Bos 114 98 886.0 240 234 4 2 1 .992 2.42 .826
Shane Victorino, Phi 139

sorted by range factor best to worst from last season. Sorry i didnt get victorino's stats, but fuck him, he is a Phillie

Hmmm, Melky > Cameron.

[Snoogans]

Melky is cheaper, Melky is younger, Melky's fielding vs. Cameron's fielding is a push, he slumped at a bad time when it couldn't be overlooked because the rest of the team was awful as well and you can fuck yourself.

I like Gardner for what he brings to the base running game, when he gets on base he makes shit happen, he had a good showing in September. Which granted, means shit, but still is better than what Melky did last year.



Bingo.



Which only proves my point. It's not a move for any baseball related benefit. It's so Sabathia has someone to hold hands with.



Hmmm, Melky > Cameron.

yea except you acted like melky has amazing range and speed and amazing d and he just doesnt. Comparing the 2 was like a giants fan in the mid 90's sayin ya know, at least Dave Brown is better then Kent Graham. Who gives a shit, you dont want either

[NYHCmikeX]

a certain poster on this board tried like hell last year to use these asinine stats to show how clutch ARod is, despite the fact that ANYONE who watched any yankee games saw ARod constantly fuck up in big spots. But these stats which count an RBI single in the first inning as clutch no matter what the score said ARod was clutch

Two years ago, A-Rod did come through in alot of big spots. last season, he was pure fucking trash in any game that came down to him. Double play-Rod would never fail. A good AB from him in the 9th with 1 out last year a pop up or a K.

THERE'S NO STAT FOR GRIT!!!@#$!#$!

Its called the Eric Byrnes factor.

[Snoogans]

Two years ago, A-Rod did come through in alot of big spots. last season, he was pure fucking trash in any game that came down to him. Double play-Rod would never fail. A good AB from him in the 9th with 1 out last year a pop up or a K.

my fave was when Double PlayRod would come up where a DP would still score a big run, so he would just pop up or K instead

[brettmojo]

yea except you acted like melky has amazing range and speed and amazing d and he just doesnt. Comparing the 2 was like a giants fan in the mid 90's sayin ya know, at least Dave Brown is better then Kent Graham. Who gives a shit, you dont want either
Quote me where I said AMAZING!!!!

I thought I was just comparing him to Mike Cameron. If there was a better third option... Gladly bring it.

[Snoogans]

when i said ive seen melky play and he didnt look very fast or great on d and you said i didnt watch them, meaning you thought he was very fast and played great d. Which is an incorrect thought. Sorry, im not used to pinstripe glasses so i cant see things as you guys do, for the most part

[epo]

Most stats are retarded, I cant stand when people constantly harp on them like stats win games before they are played.

I also heard that the Brewers might take Igawa in exchange for picking up some of Cameron's deal. In which case, I'll flip-flop on my point and welcome Cameron because Igawa is Hideki "Fat-Pussie Toad" Irabu part Deux.

I believe the deal extended to Igawa as a function of the Yanks interest in Bill Hall. So the deal would potentially look something like this:


Brewers send: Mike Cameron & Bill Hall.
Yankees send: Melky Cabrera + unknown pitching prospect + Igawa.


The balk seemed to come when Cashman had the stones to ask the Brewers for money.

[NYHCmikeX]

at least Dave Brown is better then Kent Graham. Who gives a shit, you dont want either

Fuck that, give ME Danny Kanell!

I hope Ray Hanley is having a terrible life.

I believe the deal extended to Igawa as a function of the Yanks interest in Bill Hall. So the deal would potentially look something like this:


Brewers send: Mike Cameron & Bill Hall.
Yankees send: Melky Cabrera + unknown pitching prospect + Igawa.


The balk seemed to come when Cashman had the stones to ask the Brewers for money.

As long as the unknown pitching prospect is someone I dont know of or care about (a la Jeff Marquez) I would support that. I like Bill Hall and his versatility.

[foodcourtdruide]

Quote me where I said AMAZING!!!!

I thought I was just comparing him to Mike Cameron. If there was a better third option... Gladly bring it.

Melky Cabrera freakin' stinks. Comparing him to Cameron is intellectually dishonest. Cameron is not in the top 10 outfielders in baseball, but he's not in the bottom 10 either. Cameron as a one year rental is an improvement over Cabrera, that is why the Brewers won't eat any of Cameron's contract.

[brettmojo]

melky isnt that fast and he doesnt eat up a ton of room. not in the times ive seen him out there

when i said ive seen melky play and he didnt look very fast or great on d and you said i didnt watch them, meaning you thought he was very fast and played great d. Which is an incorrect thought. Sorry, im not used to pinstripe glasses so i cant see things as you guys do, for the most part
So Cameron is better option because his defense is better? The stats don't seem to back that up.

I also said Gardner was a better option than Melky, so really how highly do you think I regard Melky? His play in center is good enough that it doesn't warrant making a lateral move that's gonna' only cost the Yankees more cash.

[Snoogans]

So Cameron is better option because his defense is better? The stats don't seem to back that up.

I also said Gardner was a better option than Melky, so really how highly do you think I regard Melky? His play in center is good enough that it doesn't warrant making a lateral move that's gonna' only cost the Yankees more cash.

for 1 year cameron is a MUCH better option. Even if the defense is only equal, which is best case for melky, the bat potential is way better since melky hits like ass anyway. And dont even try to act like the cash matters. Dont insult us like that. The city will happily pay for mike cameron

[NYHCmikeX]

I'd be curious to see how Cano reacts if Melky gets moved, they are butt pals. Maybe it'll shake him up and let him know he better start producing or he'll end up in shit ass Milwaukee too. Or worse, Kansas City.

[epo]

Melky is cheaper, Melky is younger, Melky's fielding vs. Cameron's fielding is a push, he slumped at a bad time when it couldn't be overlooked because the rest of the team was awful as well and you can fuck yourself.



"Go fuck yourself?" Blow me asshole.

Reading your shit about Melky is almost like listening to the world talk about an Atlanta Braves prospect in the 1990s. Yankees fans are consistently overrating their own prospects and its really weird.

Face it, Melky is cheap and younger but he is certainly not better than Mike Cameron. Cabrera hasn't proven shit and I've made fun of him on this board for sucking and being a Yankee failure.

Plus aren't the Yankees looking for a one-year option to hold CF for their "stud prospect" Austin Jackson? If that is the case would you rather have the proven Cameron or the Cabrera who the Yankees brass obviously isn't enamored with?

[brettmojo]

for 1 year cameron is a MUCH better option. Even if the defense is only equal, which is best case for melky, the bat potential is way better since melky hits like ass anyway. And dont even try to act like the cash matters. Dont insult us like that. The city will happily pay for mike cameron

Apparently it does if Cashman is trying to ditch some of his salary.

[epo]

I'd be curious to see how Cano reacts if Melky gets moved, they are butt pals. Maybe it'll shake him up and let him know he better start producing or he'll end up in shit ass Milwaukee too. Or worse, Kansas City.

You mean 2008 playoff participant Milwaukee Brewers?

[brettmojo]

Plus aren't the Yankees looking for a one-year option to hold CF for their "stud prospect" Austin Jackson? If that is the case would you rather have the proven Cameron or the Cabrera who the Yankees brass obviously isn't enamored with?
Which is why they might as well keep they guy who, considering everything else except salary being equal, has a much better arm than Cameron does and also has a lot to prove this year. They're both gonna' be bottom of the lineup guys so really, it's just a dumb move to cater to Sabathia. If he doesn't work out, they have Gardner and they can just make a move at the deadline. It's not like Cabrera's value will dip any lower than it already has if even the Brewers are having second thoughts.

[NYHCmikeX]

You mean 2008 playoff participant Milwaukee Brewers?

Yeah. And the "Two playoff appearances since 1982 with ZERO World Title Brewers" too.

[razorboy]

Maybe it'll shake him up and let him know he better start producing or he'll end up in shit ass Milwaukee too.

The Milwaukee bashing is getting old. It's actually a damn fun little city. Just too damn cold.

[epo]

Apparently it does if Cashman is trying to ditch some of his salary.

That doesn't fly intellectually for the rest of the nation as Cashman outbid himself for Sabathia and is begging Lowe & Burnett to take his pile of cash.

Face it, Cashman is being an asshole.

[brettmojo]

That doesn't fly intellectually for the rest of the nation as Cashman outbid himself for Sabathia and is begging Lowe & Burnett to take his pile of cash.

Face it, Cashman is being an asshole.
Oh absolutely.

[Snoogans]

cashman is being an asshole, you only spent 161. you still have 139 mill of the latest chunk of city money left. better use it quick before its too late to go back AND ASK FOR MONEY A 3rd TIME AFTER SAYIN YOU WOULDNT ASK AT ALL

[NYHCmikeX]

That doesn't fly intellectually for the rest of the nation as Cashman outbid himself for Sabathia

I wasnt aware that you sat in on the negotiations at the winter meetings. You dont know why Cashman upped his offer. Maybe CC asked for more. Maybe it was because of the ridiculous state taxes in NY. Maybe it was cause he didnt wanna play here.

You just sound like a bitter fan because CC burned the Brewers.

[HBox]

Melky is the worst CF I've seen play for the Yanks in my lifetime.

[brettmojo]

cashman is being an asshole, you only spent 161. you still have 139 mill of the latest chunk of city money left. better use it quick before its too late to go back AND ASK FOR MONEY A 3rd TIME AFTER SAYIN YOU WOULDNT ASK AT ALL
That money is for the stadium you silly goose.

[Snoogans]

I wasnt aware that you sat in on the negotiations at the winter meetings. You dont know why Cashman upped his offer. Maybe CC asked for more. Maybe it was because of the ridiculous state taxes in NY. Maybe it was cause he didnt wanna play here.

You just sound like a bitter fan because CC burned the Brewers.

yea those 8% state taxes warrant a 13% increase in salary. They offered him more because he wouldnt have signed FOR 40 MILLION MORE. So you had to go to 60, and i bet he still opts out.


either opts out or gets to 500 pounds

[NYHCmikeX]

cashman is being an asshole, you only spent 161. you still have 139 mill of the latest chunk of city money left. better use it quick before its too late to go back AND ASK FOR MONEY A 3rd TIME AFTER SAYIN YOU WOULDNT ASK AT ALL

Thats not really Cashman's doing though is it? the staidum finance seems like it would be over his head.

I read somewhere that the yankees could sign CC, Burnett and Lowe and still be signifigantly under last year's cap.

[Marc with a c]

Melky is the worst CF I've seen play for the Yanks in my lifetime.

are you three?

[Snoogans]

Thats not really Cashman's doing though is it? the staidum finance seems like it would be over his head.

I read somewhere that the yankees could sign CC, Burnett and Lowe and still be signifigantly under last year's cap.

i just did that as a backhand to the organization and the dumbass city for catering to these douches

[NYHCmikeX]

Melky is the worst CF I've seen play for the Yanks in my lifetime.

Behind Bernie, Damon and Roberto Kelly?

i just did that as a backhand to the organization and the dumbass city for catering to these douches

yeah, it really is pretty fucked up. Did the Mets milk taxpayers too?

[HBox]

Behind Bernie, Damon and Roberto Kelly?



yeah, it really is pretty fucked up. Did the Mets milk taxpayers too?

And Claudell Washington.

[Snoogans]

my favorite was dimaggio. if it wasnt for him refusing to go into the gaps in center, Mickey mighta still had some knees

[NYHCmikeX]

my favorite was dimaggio. if it wasnt for him refusing to go into the gaps in center, Mickey mighta still had some knees

Maybe he knew about that sprinkler head that tore up Mickey's knee.

[Snoogans]

Maybe he knew about that sprinkler head that tore up Mickey's knee.

that would be the point of why he refused to go there.


Damn you yankee fans are blind today. Must be the shine of all of Melky's gold gloves

[NYHCmikeX]

I actually never heard Joe D would refuse to go into the gaps, I just thought Mickey covered much more ground than him when Mick was young and in RF. I was (trying) to make a joke about the sprinkler head, and how it fucked up the knees of one the best players ever.

[NYHCmikeX]

Mike Fatcessa just said the Mets are "very close" to working a deal sending Aaron Heilman to Chicago for Jason Marquis.

[epo]

I wasnt aware that you sat in on the negotiations at the winter meetings. You dont know why Cashman upped his offer. Maybe CC asked for more. Maybe it was because of the ridiculous state taxes in NY. Maybe it was cause he didnt wanna play here.

You just sound like a bitter fan because CC burned the Brewers.

No, I'll state this for the last time: Brewers fans were 99% sure that Sabathia was leaving. The annoying part is this...your precious Yankees had to offer:

2 more years, $61 Million, An opt out clause after 3 years.

Yea...CC must have REALLY wanted to be a Yankee!

The hilarity is that Yankees fans when from "Sabathia is overrated" when he didn't take the original money to "Sabathia is the answer" when he took the expanded offer.

[Kevin]

Mike Fatcessa just said the Mets are "very close" to working a deal sending Aaron Heilman to Chicago for Jason Marquis.

Yea.. tough to deal a guy thats just been traded.. Good to pay attention there Mikey.

[Kevin]

No, I'll state this for the last time: Brewers fans were 99% sure that Sabathia was leaving. The annoying part is this...your precious Yankees had to offer:

2 more years, $61 Million, An opt out clause after 3 years.

Yea...CC must have REALLY wanted to be a Yankee!

The hilarity is that Yankees fans when from "Sabathia is overrated" when he didn't take the original money to "Sabathia is the answer" when he took the expanded offer.

Its one guy that said that. Don't go lumping us together because of one guy.

EVERY OTHER Yankee fan bashed the Yankees for catering to CC.

But he signed, the gave him way to much. And looked really desperate. What are we gunna do, not root for him now?

.
Jesus H Christ do you get bitter and bitchy about sports.

[brettmojo]

The hilarity is that Yankees fans when from "Sabathia is overrated" when he didn't take the original money to "Sabathia is the answer" when he took the expanded offer.
That's an oversimplification and gross generalization.

[HBox]

Its one guy that said that. Don't go lumping us together because of one guy.

EVERY OTHER Yankee fan bashed the Yankees for catering to CC.

But he signed, the gave him way to much. What are we gunna do, not root for him now.

Jesus H Christ do you get bitter about sports.

Give him a break. NY stole Sabathia and Favre from Milwaukee in the last few months. Now all they have left is Aaron Rodgers and a franchise player even more obese than Sabathia.

[NYHCmikeX]

No, I'll state this for the last time: Brewers fans were 99% sure that Sabathia was leaving. The annoying part is this...your precious Yankees had to offer:

2 more years, $61 Million, An opt out clause after 3 years.

:(:(

Yea...CC must have REALLY wanted to be a Yankee!

EVERYONE HERE KNEW HE DIDNT WANT TO COME TO NEW YORK. EVERYONE.

The hilarity is that Yankees fans when from "Sabathia is overrated" when he didn't take the original money to "Sabathia is the answer" when he took the expanded offer.

I love how you arbitraily bunch all Yankee fans opinions together. I never once said CC was over rated and I been crowing about how he is the only guy I really wanted in the offseason. But you heard one douchebag say it, so we ALL feel that way.

Have fun with your 25 years till your next playoff choke job.


Jesus H Christ do you get bitter and bitchy about sports.

He lives in Milwaukee, the Jets poached his QB and the yankees poached his ace, of course he'll be cunty towards New York.

And your sig rules. And HBox just said the same thing as me.

[Kevin]

Give him a break. NY stole Sabathia and Favre from Milwaukee in the last few months. Now all they have left is Aaron Rodgers and a franchise player even more obese than Sabathia.

Don't forget The Giants 6th string RB is now their star running back.

[epo]

Jesus H Christ do you get bitter and bitchy about sports.

How many times do I have to listen to you pricks degrade Milwaukee before I say something back?

[HBox]

Don't forget The Giants 6th string RB is now their star running back.

Well, the Giants practice squad RBs would probably start for half the league.

[Kevin]

How many times do I have to listen to you pricks degrade Milwaukee before I say something back?

THEY ARE FUCKING JOKES, you Sensitive child!

You have any fucking idea how many fucking Albanian jokes i get here?

AND NOT ONCE HAVE I SAID ANYTHING!

Because i am a fucking adult you know when people joke a around.

Grow the fuck out of your inferiority complex for the love of creation.

[NYHCmikeX]

Well, the Giants practice squad RBs would probably start for half the league.

Danny Ware, FTW.

I went to high school with Ryan Grant. It would have been nice if he woulda hit his growth spurt in his Junior year and won us some championship.

[NYHCmikeX]

You have any fucking idea how many fucking Albanian jokes i get here? .

Which pizza place do YOU own?

[Snoogans]

THEY ARE FUCKING JOKES, you Sensitive child!

You have any fucking idea how many fucking Albanian jokes i get here?

AND NOT ONCE HAVE I SAID ANYTHING!

Because i am a fucking adult you know when people joke a around.

Grow the fuck out of your inferiority complex for the love of creation.

thats cause even albanians know albanians are shit

[Kevin]

thats cause even albanians know albanians are shit

Exactly! why fight the truth.


See EPO. A GROWN UP RESPONSE!

[Snoogans]

Danny Ware, FTW.

I went to high school with Ryan Grant. It would have been nice if he woulda hit his growth spurt in his Junior year and won us some championship.

you went to Bosco? FAG

[NYHCmikeX]

Yea.. tough to deal a guy thats just been traded.. Good to pay attention there Mikey.

That was actually my fault. It was Shoenweis, not Heilman, I heard it in the background from my co-workers radio.

you went to Bosco? FAG

I didnt. Don Bosco swiped him from us before his senior year.

[Snoogans]

That was actually my fault. It was Shoenweis, not Heilman, I heard it in the background from my co-workers radio.



I didnt. Don Bosco swiped him from us before his senior year.

you are so fuckin lucky

[PhishHead]

I could have swore Ryan grant started at DB then transferred to Clarkstown then transferred back to DB.

[Snoogans]

I could have swore Ryan grant started at DB then transferred to Clarkstown then transferred back to DB.

another catholic HS fag, whats up phish

[NYHCmikeX]

you are so fuckin lucky

Yes, yes I am. Don Bosco is for queers. Grant didnt even tell anyone he was leaving us for them, he just didnt show up to camp that offseason. He was always a pretty good dude though, very laid back and quiet.

[Snoogans]

Yes, yes I am. Don Bosco is for queers. Grant didnt even tell anyone he was leaving us for them, he just didnt show up to camp that offseason. He was always a pretty good dude though, very laid back and quiet.

prob cause he was high

[PhishHead]

another catholic HS fag, whats up phish

Not much, I came in this thread to make fun of Milwaukee, but then I felt bad for epo.

[NYHCmikeX]

I could have swore Ryan grant started at DB then transferred to Clarkstown then transferred back to DB.

Thats entirely possible. He's older than me, so I wasnt around his freshman year.

[Snoogans]

Thats entirely possible. He's older than me, so I wasnt around his freshman year.

Clarkstown, NY?

[PhishHead]

Thats entirely possible. He's older than me, so I wasnt around his freshman year.

Yea he definitely started at bosco, I could have swore he was only at Clarkstown for 1 year (junior), but I could be wrong on that part.

I know he left Bosco because of Grades originally.

[NYHCmikeX]

Clarkstown, NY?

Clarkstown South, technically.

Keith Bulluck went to North years before.

Yea he definitely started at bosco, I could have swore he was only at Clarkstown for 1 year (junior), but I could be wrong on that part.

I know he left Bosco because of Grades originally.

I only played with him in his junior year when I was a freshman, I think I just assumed he was a product of the school.

[Snoogans]

Yea he definitely started at bosco, I could have swore he was only at Clarkstown for 1 year (junior), but I could be wrong on that part.

I know he left Bosco because of Grades originally.

too bad you st joe's fruits couldnt get him