MLB Offseason Discussion...HOT STOVE, SSSSSSSSS!!!

[spoon]

yeah but ovechkin is russian machine he wont break

Here's the russian drum machine.

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http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3597/seminbongosyv0.gif

[Knowledged_one]

Well, the Jays already signed Matt Clement to a Minor League contract with an invite to Spring Training, so why not? I don't think they have many other options and I've heard his name thrown around by JP more than once.

dont forget pitcher turned hitter adam loewen

[Kevin]

dont forget pitcher turned hitter adam loewen

What do you think about the O's giving up on Cabrerra?

If he suddenly gets his shit together with the Nats, that major egg on the O's face.

[spoon]

dont forget pitcher turned hitter adam loewen

Exactly! How can the Jays lose! It's really not fair to the rest of the league.

*Crosses fingers* Please sign Jimmy Key to play shortstop.

[Knowledged_one]

What do you think about the O's giving up on Cabrerra?

If he suddenly gets his shit together with the Nats, that major egg on the O's face.

i think after waiting five years for him to get his shit together they were right to get rid of him especially with arbitration he would have gotten over 5 mil that he isnt worth
with that said i fully expect him to have a huge year and burn the o's

[Knowledged_one]

Exactly! How can the Jays lose! It's really not fair to the rest of the league.

*Crosses fingers* Please sign Jimmy Key to play shortstop.

fuck that they should sign willie mays hayes but not the washed up wesley snipes version but the improved omar epps version

[Kevin]

i think after waiting five years for him to get his shit together they were right to get rid of him especially with arbitration he would have gotten over 5 mil that he isnt worth
with that said i fully expect him to have a huge year and burn the o's

And get signed to a 7 year 150mil deal by the Yankees

[cougarjake13]

are there any pitchers in recent history who have missed major time only to make a nice comeback

jon leiber comes to mind

[El Mudo]

We're not talking about your Caps and that sissy Semin. Slap fight anyone!?

He may fight like a sissy, but at least he's not losing fights to snow blowers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/In-the-battle-of-snowblower-vs-Joe-Sakic-snowb?urn=nhl,128200) :wink:

[epo]

Brewers, Hoffman make progress (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37172074.html)

I just spoke again with Rick Thurman, the lead agent for free agent closer Trevor Hoffman, and he said he continued talks with Brewers general manager Doug Melvin this afternoon that could lead to a deal between the parties.

Thurman stopped short of saying the Brewers made a concrete offer but said the sides "continued to talk about parameters."

"I told (Melvin) where we want to be (with a contract)," said Thurman. "We both understand more what each side wants."

What Hoffman wants is two years guaranteed, even at age 41. The Brewers might feel more comfortable with one year plus a vesting option for a second year but those are details that can be worked out if the team is to sign baseball's all-time saves leader.

Thurman said he expects to continue negotiations with Melvin on Wednesday.

Lock it up Melvin!

[Kevin]

Brewers, Hoffman make progress (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37172074.html)



Lock it up Melvin!



Really? You wan't the Arod of Closers? He comes up small in every big spot.

[El Mudo]

Really? You wan't the Arod of Closers? He comes up small in every big spot.

You do realize that ARod has a career .856 OPS in the postseason? And that's better than Jeter (.845) and about as good as Reggie (considering Reggie had a ton more postseason at bats). And that over his career he's been worth over 141 wins to his teams? He's the very opposite of coming up "small in every big spot".

And again, none of it matters. You can't just take tiny postseason sample sizes or small memorable moments (Jeter's "flip" for example, or Aaron Boone) and all of a sudden paint a guy as being "clutch" or "not clutch" or not a "true Yankee" (as vomit inducing as that phrase is). Regular season statistical average on pretty much every player are pretty damn close to their playoff statistical averages, only in the playoffs its a smaller sample size.


There's no such thing as "clutch". I cannot stress that enough.

And Hoffman's got a career ERA + of 144 and career WHIP of 1.04. He's gonna be a Hall Of Famer, and if he's got anything left in the tank, he'll be a darn good pick up for the Brewers.

[Kevin]

Arod avg is like 100 since game 3 of the 04 ALCS. And Hoffman is the worst good big game closer ever. Every big game that i have seen him in, he has blew. Even when the Allstar game started being for WS Homefield, he started blowing those games.

[El Mudo]

Arod avg is like 100 since game 3 of the 04 ALCS. And Hoffman is the worst good big game closer ever. Every big game that i have seen him in, he has blew. Even when the Allstar game started being for WS Homefield, he started blowing those games.

1) Batting average is a dumb stat

2) ARod OPS'd .894 in that 04 LCS with 8 runs, 8 hits, and 2 HR...that's really good

3) The three series since then have only gone 4 and 5 games each, which = miniscule sample size, and its not HIS fault the Yankees pitching has been Godawful during that stretch

4) See Hoffman's stats I cited above...man's a great pitcher, and probably better than what most of LA and Milwaukee have

[Kevin]

1) Batting average is a dumb stat

2) ARod OPS'd .894 in that 04 LCS with 8 runs, 8 hits, and 2 HR...that's really good

3) The three series since then have only gone 4 and 5 games each, which = miniscule sample size, and its not HIS fault the Yankees pitching has been Godawful during that stretch

4) See Hoffman's stats I cited above...man's a great pitcher, and probably better than what most of LA and Milwaukee have



I am on my phone, but please check his stats with RISP in the playoffs since gm 3

[El Mudo]

I am on my phone, but please check his stats with RISP in the playoffs since gm 3


If no one's getting on in front of him, how can he drive them in?

Unless the Yankees have bought secret Ghost Baserunners that no one can see, yet still cross the plate and score runs.

ARod's WARP 3s in 04 and beyond:

2004: 10.0
2005: 11.9
2006: 7.9
2007: 13.8
2008: 10.1

And if he was still playing short, those numbers would be even HIGHER. The man has been worth roughly 10 wins BY HIMSELF every year to the Yankees in that entire stretch. Its safe to say they wouldn't even be close to sniffing the playoffs in any of those years if he wasn't in their lineup.

I don't understand the rationale of cherrypicking a 13 game sample size to automatically say a guy isn't "good when it counts"

[TheMojoPin]

El Mudo is a baseball svengali.

Listen to him.

[Kevin]

There is an awful stat out there where he is dreadful with risp in the playoffs

[Knowledged_one]

There is an awful stat out there where he is dreadful with risp in the playoffs

didnt arod have only 5 rbis after the 7th last year

[Kevin]

Yea something terrible. Plus he is like 3 for a million RISP with 2 outs or something. I can't find it but it was a wow #

[epo]

Dodgers, Brewers offer Hoffman deal (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090106&content_id=3734056&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp)

The Dodgers and Brewers have both offered free-agent closer Trevor Hoffman a one-year deal with an option for 2010, the agent for the all-time leader with 554 saves said on Wednesday.

Hoffman hasn't decided yet where he wants to play. Both deals are higher than the $4 million the Padres offered in early November, a contract that was taken off the table.

I would guess that after 15 years in San Diego that the California team has the advantage in this race.

[TheMojoPin]

Yea something terrible. Plus he is like 3 for a million RISP with 2 outs or something. I can't find it but it was a wow #

How do you not know baseball-reference.com?

[Kevin]

How do you not know baseball-reference.com?



I am on my phone.

[Knowledged_one]

I am on my phone.

ditto

[Knowledged_one]

Dodgers, Brewers offer Hoffman deal (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090106&content_id=3734056&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp)



I would guess that after 15 years in San Diego that the California team has the advantage in this race.

epo what are your thoughts on torres

[cougarjake13]

How do you not know baseball-reference.com?

thats one of the greatest inventions .. ever

[Knowledged_one]

thats one of the greatest inventions .. ever

at least since sliced bread

[Kevin]

at least since sliced bread



How did people before, not realize that bread can be sliced?

[cougarjake13]

How did people before, not realize that bread can be sliced?



http://img4.ifilmpro.com/resize/image/stills/films/resize/istd/2848465.jpg

[brettmojo]

You do realize that ARod has a career .856 OPS in the postseason? And that's better than Jeter (.845) and about as good as Reggie (considering Reggie had a ton more postseason at bats). And that over his career he's been worth over 141 wins to his teams? He's the very opposite of coming up "small in every big spot".

And again, none of it matters. You can't just take tiny postseason sample sizes or small memorable moments (Jeter's "flip" for example, or Aaron Boone) and all of a sudden paint a guy as being "clutch" or "not clutch" or not a "true Yankee" (as vomit inducing as that phrase is). Regular season statistical average on pretty much every player are pretty damn close to their playoff statistical averages, only in the playoffs its a smaller sample size.


There's no such thing as "clutch". I cannot stress that enough.

Last season Arod hit somewhere around .250 last season with runners in scoring position. In fact I believe it was less. For him yes, there was no such thing as "clutch" last season.

As far as comparing his post season numbers with his regular season numbers...

<table border="1"> <tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Reg. Season</td><td>Post Season</td></tr><tr><td>OPS</td><td>.957</td><td>.844</td></tr><tr><td>HR/AB</td><td>1/14</td><td>1/21</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Jeter's career OPS is basically identical to his postseason OPS along with holding the record for postseason hits and runs scored. Granted it helps that he's played in 123 postseason games. Jeter's not extraordinary in the postseason by any means, but his production doesn't fall off a cliff either. Over 123 games though I think even Arod's numbers would look more Arod like if given the chance.

Its safe to say they wouldn't even be close to sniffing the playoffs in any of those years if he wasn't in their lineup.
Yeah... Really safe to say. It's not like they had ever made the playoffs without him.

This article is interesting as well...

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=1643

"Clutch" is an acknowledged and celebrated part of sports. If you chose not to believe in it, or put your own little spin on it to try and call it something else, that's you.

http://img4.ifilmpro.com/resize/image/stills/films/resize/istd/2848465.jpg

That should be a picture of a caveman hitting in the postseason, and Arod walking by looking at it. Photoshop anyone?

[underdog]

<table border="1"> <tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Reg. Season</td><td>Post Season</td></tr><tr><td>OPS</td><td>.957</td><td>.844</td></tr><tr><td>HR/AB</td><td>1/14</td><td>1/21</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Jeter's career OPS is basically identical to his postseason OPS along with holding the record for postseason hits and runs scored. Granted it helps that he's played in 123 postseason games. Jeter's not extraordinary in the postseason by any means, but his production doesn't fall off a cliff either. Over 123 games though I think even Arod's numbers would look more Arod like if given the chance.

Jeter's OPS is .002 points higher than A-Rod's in the postseason.

But Jeter is "clutch" and A-Rod isn't, right?

[TheMojoPin]

Brettmojo brought up pitching wins & losses the other day like they mattered.

Now he's harping on batting average.

I thought he was the anti-BDC.

[brettmojo]

Brettmojo brought up pitching wins & losses the other day like they mattered.

Now he's harping on batting average.

I thought he was the anti-BDC.
It no longer matters if hitters can drive in runs with RISP... Got it.

[Knowledged_one]

Brettmojo brought up pitching wins & losses the other day like they mattered.

Now he's harping on batting average.

I thought he was the anti-BDC.

no no no hes bdc v2.0

[underdog]

It no longer matters if hitters can drive in runs with RISP... Got it.

A batter doesn't control who get's on in front of him.

Just like a batter doesn't control if his team's pitchers suck.

If Pujols was a better pitcher, he'd win MVP unanimously every year.

[brettmojo]

A batter doesn't control who get's on in front of him.

Just like a batter doesn't control if his team's pitchers suck.

If Pujols was a better pitcher, he'd win MVP unanimously every year.
Is that supposed to be a Haiku?

[underdog]

Is that supposed to be a Haiku?

When you have children, will you just tell them to root for whoever is good during their youth?

[Knowledged_one]

When you have children, will you just tell them to root for whoever is good during their youth?

he doesnt understand the concept of competitive balance and you want him to have kids,

you so crazy

[TheMojoPin]

It no longer matters if hitters can drive in runs with RISP... Got it.

Batting average is arguably the shittiest way to judge that or pretty much any other offensive category.

[brettmojo]

Batting average is arguably the shittiest way to judge that or pretty much any other offensive category.
But if he's not driving in runs with runners on he's not doing his job as a clean up hitter/run producer.

[underdog]

But if he's not driving in runs with runners on he's not doing his job as a clean up hitter/run producer.

If a batter hit .400 batting 4th, but only drives in 2 runs all year because no one gets on base in front of him, does that make him a bad clean up hitter?

[mikesiphone]

But if he's not driving in runs with runners on he's not doing his job as a clean up hitter/run producer.

If the yankees are smart they would bat AROD 3rd where Abreu found a way out of slumping when he first came to join form the Phillies.. Cleanup should go to Tex and if they do keep Swisher (theres talks with Cinci as we speak) plugged 5th .. Swisher batted over 300 w/ the Athletics in his early days where he was in the power slots. The low batting average from the whitesox last year is a poor indication of how good a hitter he really is.

OH WELL I hate the yankees.. the only thing I wanted for Christmas was Manny joining the Mets. But Minaya is too busy pleasing the wilpons and not making his own decisions.

KROD 60 saves in 2009 season!

[TheMojoPin]

But if he's not driving in runs with runners on he's not doing his job as a clean up hitter/run producer.

He hasn't less than 100 RBI's a season since 1997. He's had 120 or more in 7 of the last 11 seasons, including 2005-2007. Call me crazy, but you need runners on base to get that done.

Here's his career numbers with RISP:

.303 .404 .553 .957

With runners on, period:

.310 .397 .584 .981

Please explain to me how these numbers are bad. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00#situa-bases)

Here's his "clutch" stats. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00#situa-clutc)

Here are his numbers from the 7th inning onwards:

.288 .372 .539 .911

You guys should be on your knees thanking the baseball gods you have such a once in a liftetime type of player. It's a crime he's going to finish his career for the Yankees.

[TheMojoPin]

If the yankees are smart they would bat AROD 3rd where Abreu found a way out of slumping when he first came to join form the Phillies.. Cleanup should go to Tex

Exactly. But hey, the Yanks know best. One of the best all-around players of all time? We're gonna move you to 3rd and bat you cleanup. Makes perfect sense.

[Knowledged_one]

I still cant believe tex picked the yanks because thats what his wife wanted

[brettmojo]

He hasn't less than 100 RBI's a season since 1997. He's had 120 or more in 7 of the last 11 seasons, including 2005-2007. Call me crazy, but you need runners on base to get that done.

Here's his career numbers with RISP:

.303 .404 .553 .957

With runners on, period:

.310 .397 .584 .981

Please explain to me how these numbers are bad. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00#situa-bases)

Here's his "clutch" stats. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00#situa-clutc)

Here are his numbers from the 7th inning onwards:

.288 .372 .539 .911

You guys should be on your knees thanking the baseball gods you have such a once in a liftetime type of player. It's a crime he's going to finish his career for the Yankees.
And that has to do with last year, which is what I was talking about, because?

I still cant believe tex picked the yanks because thats what his wife wanted

I don't believe anything he said during that press conference.

[Knowledged_one]

Exactly. But hey, the Yanks know best. One of the best all-around players of all time? We're gonna move you to 3rd and bat you cleanup. Makes perfect sense.

it makes sense in the world where fans think pa is a good writer

[IMSlacker]

brettmojo and Kevin have convinced me. Arod is terrible and the Yankees should release him, post haste.

[El Mudo]

didnt arod have only 5 rbis after the 7th last year



Yea something terrible. Plus he is like 3 for a million RISP with 2 outs or something. I can't find it but it was a wow #


SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!!!

:furious::furious::furious:

[TheMojoPin]

[/URL]And that has to do with last year, which is what I was talking about, because?

Because Yanks fans have been griping about him like that for years now.

Even just to confined to last year, which was a "down year" for him, he was nowhere near as bad as people want to say he was.

[URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=2008#situa-bases"]Bases occupied stats. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=2008#situa-clutc)

Granted, his numbers with guys on 2nd & 3rd or 1st & 2nd are pretty ugly, but everything else is fine. Overall, his numbers with RISP last year:

.271 .406 .458 .863

With runners on, period:

.277 .385 .476 .861

"Clutch" stats. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=2008#situa-clutc)

[K.C.]

Come on man, that excuse was old when SD's Merriman used it.

MLB is basically admitting a degree fault in that situation.

Why do you think they tried to cut him a deal and offer him a 25-game suspension earlier on? They know they kind of screwed Romero over.

I can't fault Romero for not agreeing. They guy believes he's innocence, and he's going to pay a hefty price (literally, to the tune of 1.25 million) because of it.

[spadanko]

Red Sox to sign Rocco Baldelli

[Knowledged_one]

Orioles sign some japanesse pitcher and may sign another for their rotation and extension for roberts at an impasse

[spadanko]

Red Sox to also sign John Smoltz

[spoon]

MLB is basically admitting a degree fault in that situation.

Why do you think they tried to cut him a deal and offer him a 25-game suspension earlier on? They know they kind of screwed Romero over.

I can't fault Romero for not agreeing. They guy believes he's innocence, and he's going to pay a hefty price (literally, to the tune of 1.25 million) because of it.

We'll see, I'm very skeptical of everyone these days....and not a homer.

[Knowledged_one]

Some yankee pitcher also got the same suspension

[spoon]

Last season Arod hit somewhere around .250 last season with runners in scoring position. In fact I believe it was less. For him yes, there was no such thing as "clutch" last season.

As far as comparing his post season numbers with his regular season numbers...

<table border="1"> <tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Reg. Season</td><td>Post Season</td></tr><tr><td>OPS</td><td>.957</td><td>.844</td></tr><tr><td>HR/AB</td><td>1/14</td><td>1/21</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Jeter's career OPS is basically identical to his postseason OPS along with holding the record for postseason hits and runs scored. Granted it helps that he's played in 123 postseason games. Jeter's not extraordinary in the postseason by any means, but his production doesn't fall off a cliff either. Over 123 games though I think even Arod's numbers would look more Arod like if given the chance.


Yeah... Really safe to say. It's not like they had ever made the playoffs without him.

This article is interesting as well...

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=1643

"Clutch" is an acknowledged and celebrated part of sports. If you chose not to believe in it, or put your own little spin on it to try and call it something else, that's you.



That should be a picture of a caveman hitting in the postseason, and Arod walking by looking at it. Photoshop anyone?

If this isn't Bulldogcakes, then it's his illegitimate kid. Come people, he's quoting/linking blogs and surely sounds like baker boy. Hmmmmm?

[IMSlacker]

Some yankee pitcher also got the same suspension

Yes. Ex-Cub Sergio Mitre (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812620).

[Knowledged_one]

Why do you think after his first post i dubbed him bdc v2.0

[Knowledged_one]

Yes. Ex-Cub Sergio Mitre (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812620).

thank you my friend his name escaped me

[spoon]

Why do you think after his first post i dubbed him bdc v2.0

Well done then, but I never saw that one.

[Kevin]

Well done then, but I never saw that one.

Yea, he did it right away.

[HBox]

John Smoltz to the Red Sox apparently. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3817694)

[Kevin]

John Smoltz to the Red Sox apparently. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3817694)

I am inconsolable...














































Oh wait... This isn't 2005.... Carry on..

[jonyrotn]

John Smoltz to the Red Sox apparently. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3817694)
Why leave the NL?
Your're talking about ditchin'a league he knows inside and out..Plus he doesn't even have a catcher to throw to..

His stuff isn't good enough any longer, he'll get lit up like a SoCal tree farm..
They're gonna have to have helicopters drop bags of water on him after he goes through the order the first time..

True, he's still a major league pitcher and true, he has a lot to offer the younger kids and true, he's one of the smartest baseball minds in the game today but we don't need a future GM we need a solid #3, so why switch leagues now, he knows EVERY NL batter's weaknesses and strengths? Plus, he doesn't have "it", he's not a winner..He's got like one ring with all those great teams he was on..

For shame Theo..:nono:

I would of went to Milwaukee and gotten to the League Championship series the easy way..

I wanted Ben Sheets or Oliver Perez but now that rotation is buldging at the seems unless he agrees to set up for Papelbon..

I give the Redsox a :thumbdown: this off season..Unless they sign Bobby Abreu, then I'll give them a :smile:..

[El Mudo]

Yeah... Really safe to say. It's not like they had ever made the playoffs without him.





Of course they have, I'm not saying that. But take away ARod's roughly 10 wins he generated by himself during 2004-present (as shown by his WARP3s during that time):

2004 - Yankees final record: 101-61, 3 games ahead of Boston
ARod's WARP3: 10.0

2005 - Yankees final record: 95-67, tied with Boston, 3 seed in the playoffs
ARod's WARP3: 11.9

2006 - Yankees final record: 97-65, 10 games ahead of Toronto
ARod's WARP3: 7.9

2007 - Yankees final record: 94-68, 2 games behind Boston, 4 seed in the playoffs
ARod's WARP3: 13.8

2008 - Yankees Final record: 89-73, 8 games back of Tampa
ARod's WARP3: 10.1

By looking at those numbers alone, the Yankees would have been significantly worse off, if not missing the playoffs entirely, if ARod was replaced with a guy who only put up HALF of his WARP3


"Clutch" is an acknowledged and celebrated part of sports. If you chose not to believe in it, or put your own little spin on it to try and call it something else, that's you.



So is the concept of "curses". Doesn't mean they're correct or accurate.

You can have a team full of Ecksteins and Jeters and Brosisuseseseses and guys who are considered "clutch". I'll take a team full of ARods and pummel you 9 times out of 10.

[El Mudo]

Why leave the NL?
Your're talking about ditchin'a league he knows inside and out..Plus he doesn't even have a catcher to throw to..

His stuff isn't good enough any longer, he'll get lit up like a SoCal tree farm..
They're gonna have to have helicopters drop bags of water on him after he goes through the order the first time..

True, he's still a major league pitcher and true, he has a lot to offer the younger kids and true, he's one of the smartest baseball minds in the game today but we don't need a future GM we need a solid #3, so why switch leagues now, he knows EVERY NL batter's weaknesses and strengths? Plus, he doesn't have "it", he's not a winner..He's got like one ring with all those great teams he was on..

For shame Theo..:nono:

I would of went to Milwaukee and gotten to the League Championship series the easy way..

I wanted Ben Sheets or Oliver Perez but now that rotation is buldging at the seems unless he agrees to set up for Papelbon..

I give the Redsox a :thumbdown: this off season..Unless they sign Bobby Abreu, then I'll give them a :smile:..



Smoltz is coming off a pretty bad injury, but in 2007 at 40 he put up a 137 ERA + and a WHIP of 1.18. Pretty decent numbers for a 3rd/4th starter. Plus the Sox have been good about signing veteran "risks" for cheap prices at really no cost to themselves in players or in draft picks.

I don't understand the concept of having "it". What I do understand is the man's career ERA + is 127 (including one year when it was an ungodly 383, but that was in 64 innings as a closer), and his WHIP is a pretty decent 1.17. I would call him a rich man's Curt Schilling.

[epo]

Hoffman, Brewers close in on deal (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090108&content_id=3736591&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp)

The Brewers are nearing a deal to sign free-agent closer Trevor Hoffman, a baseball source close to the negotiations told MLB.com in the wee hours on Thursday morning.

The one-year deal with an option for 2010 would move "Trevor Time" and the all-time leader with 554 saves from San Diego to Milwaukee.

"It's pretty close. It looks like it's going to happen," the source said.

On Wednesday, it was revealed that Hoffman was weighing similar offers from the Brewers and the Dodgers. Both deals were higher than the $4 million the Padres offered in early November.

Two things:

1. I'm surprised Milwaukee has the edge as I thought Hoffman would find the Dodgers more enticing due to geography.

2. When did MLB.com become a major source for rumors about MLB? It's almost got the feeling of WWE.com having wrestling rumors to me.

[El Mudo]

This is a few years old, and fairly long, but it does a bang up job of refuting the whole "batting average with RISP stat" and refutes the whole notion of "clutch" (http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/04/i-know-im-going-to-make-fun-of-someone.html)


It could not hurt. The National League's highest average with runners in scoring position last season was the .286 of the Los Angeles Dodgers, and they were one of the four playoff teams. The other three also ranked above the league average.

But then, so did ... the Pirates? Their .266 mark ranked seventh, even though they finished with the fewest runs and were nowhere near the playoffs.

So what does that teach us? It teaches us that it's not that crucial a stat, relatively speaking, because if the team isn't getting anyone on base, you can hit .300 with RISP and you won't score as many runs as other teams with lower BA and SLG with RISP. See?

The statistic that correlates most closely with scoring runs is on-base percentage ---- how many times a batter reaches base safely, whether by hit, walk or hit batsman -- and this is backed by every spreadsheet back to the late 19th century.

Where were you a paragraph earlier, man? I just typed all that shit for nothing?

Last year, the Pirates' on-base percentage was .327, third lowest in the league. This year, it is .303, second lowest.

Huh. So, Tracy is a bonehead?

But then ... so is their .190 average with runners in scoring position, which might bolster Tracy's case.


If their team OBP is .327, they can hit .500 with RISP and they still won't win anything. Tracy's "case" is that they need a high BA with RISP, and that OBP doesn't matter so much. That's like saying that the important part of the alley-oop is the slam dunk, and it doesn't matter so much whether anyone bothered to lob you the ball.




Goddamn I miss FireJoeMorgan :sad::sad:

[foodcourtdruide]

Hoffman, Brewers close in on deal (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090108&content_id=3736591&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp)


Two things:

1. I'm surprised Milwaukee has the edge as I thought Hoffman would find the Dodgers more enticing due to geography.

2. When did MLB.com become a major source for rumors about MLB? It's almost got the feeling of WWE.com having wrestling rumors to me.

Actually, WWE.com has an "industry news" section which is kinda like wrestlezone.com. It talks about rumors and non-WWE talent.

[brettmojo]

So is the concept of "curses". Doesn't mean they're correct or accurate.

Don't they actually track "Clutch" statistics?

No one seriously believes in a curse. And it's not something that actually has any basis in reality such as how players perform in late inning/game deciding situations etc.

[vjr97]

the yankees are going to win it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i would prefer an upgrade to que se llama que se llama manny ramirez

[foodcourtdruide]

This is a few years old, and fairly long, but it does a bang up job of refuting the whole "batting average with RISP stat" and refutes the whole notion of "clutch" (http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/04/i-know-im-going-to-make-fun-of-someone.html)





Goddamn I miss FireJoeMorgan :sad::sad:

The FJM article is fucking brilliant, the last line had me laughing out loud:
"Ronny Paulino and everyone else who would rather pitch to Albert Pujols than to David Eckstein get a punch in the face and an exhortation to seek counseling."

[foodcourtdruide]

Don't they actually track "Clutch" statistics?

No one seriously believes in a curse. And it's not something that actually has any basis in reality such as how players perform in late inning/game deciding situations etc.

What is a "game deciding situation"? Isn't every at-bat potentially a game deciding situation?

[El Mudo]

Don't they actually track "Clutch" statistics?

No one seriously believes in a curse. And it's not something that actually has any basis in reality such as how players perform in late inning/game deciding situations etc.

They track "clutch" stats, but they in no way should be used to evaluate objectively how great a player is, especially something like average with RISP, which is something that's completely dependent on people getting on base in front of him, and doesn't take into account better statistical measures like OBP

Its like using "wins" to say how good a pitcher is

[PhishHead]

This is a few years old, and fairly long, but it does a bang up job of refuting the whole "batting average with RISP stat" and refutes the whole notion of "clutch" (http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/04/i-know-im-going-to-make-fun-of-someone.html)





Goddamn I miss FireJoeMorgan :sad::sad:

Such a great article.

FJM was the best :(

[epo]

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Hoffman deal finished. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37268769.html)

A reliable source familiar with the negotiations just told me that the Brewers have reached agreement with closer Trevor Hoffman. It should be announced very shortly.

I don't know yet if they settled on the Brewers' initial offer of one year plus an option for 2010 or if they had to guarantee a second year to beat the Dodgers for Hoffman's services. And I don't have financial details yet but I'll get them to you ASAP.

So, the Brewers have their closer. And he's baseball's all-time saves leader. He might be 41 but he still converted 30 of 34 saves last year and is the best ever in conversion rate (89%).

I'll post more details as I get them. But the deal is done.

Broxton in LA must have freaked the Hoffman people off, but I'm glad they did.

[midwestjeff]

Yeah, but without riding C.C.'s arm, how often will they even have a lead going into the ninth anyway?

[epo]

Yeah, but without riding C.C.'s arm, how often will they even have a lead going into the ninth anyway?

More than St. Louis, less than Chicago.

[Bossanova]

Smoltz to Boston


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9044956/Sources:-Red-Sox-nearing-deal-with-Smoltz

and apparently Baldelli

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9044910/Sources:-Red-Sox-on-verge-of-signing-Baldelli

[OGC]

Smoltz to Boston


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9044956/Sources:-Red-Sox-nearing-deal-with-Smoltz

and apparently Baldelli

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9044910/Sources:-Red-Sox-on-verge-of-signing-Baldelli

The Baldelli signing is official, the Smoltz signing still isn't .

[underdog]

The FJM article is fucking brilliant, the last line had me laughing out loud:
"Ronny Paulino and everyone else who would rather pitch to Albert Pujols than to David Eckstein get a punch in the face and an exhortation to seek counseling."

I enjoyed this :

"Jason Bay: possibly replacing Freddy Sanchez as FJM's new favorite non-Red Sox."

It's like Theo was writing for FJM.

[Kevin]

I was watching the MLB.com breakdown on the Hoffman signing...

Are we are gunna start using the term... "Wildcard Champions" around?

Really?

[Puggle_kicker]

Offseason '09

New York:
C.C. Sabathia
A.J. Burnett
Mark Teixera

Boston:
John Smoltz
Roco Baldelli

???????????????????

:clap:

[Kevin]

Offseason '09

New York:
C.C. Sabathia
A.J. Burnett
Mark Teixera

Boston:
John Smoltz
Roco Baldelli

???????????????????

:clap:

Don't forget the great 6+ Era of Brad Penny...

[K.C.]

1) Phillies (to be the man....wooooooooo...you've got to beat the man)
2) Yankees
3) Cubs
4) Rays
5) Red Sox
6) Mets
7) Angels
8) Marlins
9) Astros
10) Brewers
11) Dodgers
12) Twins
13) Cardinals
14) Athletics
15) Diamondbacks
16) Blue Jays
17) Rangers
18) Royals
19) White Sox
20) Indians
21) Braves
22) Reds
23) Giants
24) Rockies
25) Pirates
26) Tigers
27) Orioles
28) Nationals
29) Mariners
30) Padres

[epo]

Offseason '09

New York:
C.C. Sabathia
A.J. Burnett
Mark Teixera

Boston:
John Smoltz
Roco Baldelli

???????????????????

:clap:

Winning the off-season is EVERYTHING!

[Marc with a c]

is this according to kc?

[lleeder]

is this according to kc?

yeah it seems that way

[sailor]

ha, blue jays don't even make the list. (dodgers twice)

[K.C.]

yeah it seems that way

Do you guys not read post titles?

I had an urge for Mojo to say I'm Joe Morgan, BDC Version 2.0 to claim outrage over not ranking the Yankees #1 thru 30 and suggesting the baseball season need not even be played, and Mudo to tell me each team should be ranked in order according to OPS and ERA+

[K.C.]

ha, blue jays don't even make the list. (dodgers twice)

Yeah, I just caught that. Add spoon to the angry poster list.

[lleeder]

Do you guys not read post titles?

I had an urge for Mojo to say I'm Joe Morgan, BDC Version 2.0 to claim outrage over not ranking the Yankees #1 thru 30 and suggesting the baseball season need not even be played, and Mudo to tell me each team should be ranked in order according to OPS and ERA+

Thats interesti..ZZZzzzzZZZzzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZZzzzZZZzzz zZZ

[K.C.]

Thats interesti..ZZZzzzzZZZzzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZZzzzZZZzzz zZZ

Quiet, you.

Go start a poll.

[TheMojoPin]

Do you guys not read post titles?

I had an urge for people to talk about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Fixed.

Just kidding, Tenbats. Nice list.

[K.C.]

Just kidding, Tenbats.

Now you're just being mean.

[underdog]

Winning the off-season is EVERYTHING!

It's why the Washington Redskins win the Super Bowl every year.

[Kevin]

It's why the Washington Redskins win the Super Bowl every year.

Redskins sign old washed up has beens...

[K.C.]

Redskins sign old washed up has beens...

That's part of their agreement with Dallas.

The 'Boys take the criminals, the Skins take the fossils.

[joeyballsack]

Offseason '09

New York:
C.C. Sabathia
A.J. Burnett
Mark Teixera

Boston:
John Smoltz
Roco Baldelli

???????????????????

:clap:

I would rather win the regular season than the Hot Stove, but I guess you take what you can get when you finish in third place.

I like the fact that Bostons front office didn't go into panic mode and overpay for someone after losing Texiera. They have pushed most of the right buttons the last few years, so I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[spoon]

Redskins sign old washed up has beens...

Speaking of this strategy, Blue Jays make a move!

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090108&content_id=3736612&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

Take that yankee fans!

:wallbash:

[spoon]

1) Phillies (to be the man....wooooooooo...you've got to beat the man)
2) Yankees
3) Cubs
4) Rays
5) Red Sox
6) Mets
7) Angels
8) Marlins
9) Astros
10) Brewers
11) Dodgers
12) Twins
13) Cardinals
14) Athletics
15) Diamondbacks
16) Blue Jays
17) Rangers
18) Royals
19) White Sox
20) Indians
21) Braves
22) Reds
23) Giants
24) Rockies
25) Pirates
26) Tigers
27) Orioles
28) Nationals
29) Mariners
30) Padres

+ Montclair Jackals
- Spanks!

:lol:

[El Mudo]

Do you guys not read post titles?

I had an urge for Mojo to say I'm Joe Morgan, BDC Version 2.0 to claim outrage over not ranking the Yankees #1 thru 30 and suggesting the baseball season need not even be played, and Mudo to tell me each team should be ranked in order according to OPS and ERA+

Don't forget about VORP and WARP3! :thumbup::thumbup:

*bows to The Godfather*

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2006/03/14/1142352000_7597.jpg

[Kevin]

Huge clown New Cleveland Indian Carl Pavano had his feelings hurt in New York according to the Plain Dealer.
Asked how it felt for his teammates to turn on him and for Joe Torre to say he needed to regain their trust, Pavano replied:
“All that stuff only makes you stronger. When you’re down, you expect your organization to support you and not kick you. I had a lot of setbacks in New York. A lot of trials and tribulations. It just made me stronger.”
I better stop there before I get in trouble. Mike Mussina, pick up the telephone.

I guess, he wanted to steal more money.

[Knowledged_one]

Huge clown New Cleveland Indian Carl Pavano had his feelings hurt in New York according to the Plain Dealer.
Asked how it felt for his teammates to turn on him and for Joe Torre to say he needed to regain their trust, Pavano replied:
“All that stuff only makes you stronger. When you’re down, you expect your organization to support you and not kick you. I had a lot of setbacks in New York. A lot of trials and tribulations. It just made me stronger.�
I better stop there before I get in trouble. Mike Mussina, pick up the telephone.

I guess, he wanted to steal more money.

hes no kei igawa or hideki irabu thats for sure

[NYHCmikeX]

hes no kei igawa or hideki irabu thats for sure

But they just sucked. Pavano sucked and was out with lame and/or self inflicted injuries, and he took FOREVER to come back from them. You could understand why people on the team got fed up with him. He also had success at this level before, not like either of those bums.

[TheMojoPin]

When spoon gets back, he'll appreciate this insight into Tex' decision to sign with the Yanks. (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/01/07/the-dugout-pros-and-cons/)

[cougarjake13]

When spoon gets back, he'll appreciate this insight into Tex' decision to sign with the Yanks. (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/01/07/the-dugout-pros-and-cons/)

what got him banned ??

[Snoogans]

The Dugout is usually funny but I refuse to read it anymore because they stopped doin awesome NFL PICTOCHATS.

[cougarjake13]

1) Phillies (to be the man....wooooooooo...you've got to beat the man)
2) Yankees
3) Cubs
4) Rays
5) Red Sox
6) Mets
7) Angels
8) Marlins
9) Astros
10) Brewers
11) Dodgers
12) Twins
13) Cardinals
14) Athletics
15) Diamondbacks
16) Blue Jays
17) Rangers
18) Royals
19) White Sox
20) Indians
21) Braves
22) Reds
23) Giants
24) Rockies
25) Pirates
26) Tigers
27) Orioles
28) Nationals
29) Mariners
30) Padres



way too early and the yanks are too high, cubs should be 2 and i'd put the angels ahead of mets

[TheMojoPin]

The Dugout is usually funny but I refuse to read it anymore because they stopped doin awesome NFL PICTOCHATS.

The Dugout peaked so long ago. Moving to AOL where they can't swear and be really insane killed it most of the time.

[Snoogans]

The Dugout peaked so long ago. Moving to AOL where they can't swear and be really insane killed it most of the time.

i havent even read it since then. Whenever they stopped the NFL shit I was done

[Kevin]

When spoon gets back, he'll appreciate this insight into Tex' decision to sign with the Yanks. (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/01/07/the-dugout-pros-and-cons/)

Jealous haters with sour grapes.

[TheMojoPin]

Jealous haters with sour grapes.

Lighten up, spaz.

[Snoogans]

Lighten up, spaz.

seriously? spaz?

[TheMojoPin]

As spotty as the stirp has become, any apearance by Farnsworth makes my day. (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/12/10/the-dugout-winter-meetings/)

[TheMojoPin]

seriously? spaz?

That's right.

You want some?

[IMSlacker]

That's right.

You want some?

I believe Snoogans, does indeed, want some.

[Kevin]

Lighten up, spaz.

seriously? spaz?

That comment is, too far out, and too cool for school, for you.

[HBox]

Take it outside dweebs.

[TheMojoPin]

Geeks.

[Kevin]

Take it outside dweebs.

Geeks.

Freaks.

[PD]

Geeks.
Freaks.

http://melanism.com/pics/FREAKS_AND_GEEKS.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://melanism.com/pics/FREAKS_AND_GEEKS.jpg

Seriously, it's almost like the separated out who is still working and who is not.

[PerryWinkle]

Seriously, it's almost like the separated out who is still working and who is not.

:lol:good call :clap:

[Marc with a c]

red sox got saito for a year and a club option for a second.

[Holes]

Pedro to the Marlins????

[OGC]

Maybe not a hotstove story, but things look to be heating up under Roger Clemens ass (http://http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479405,00.html).

[Marc with a c]

lowe to the fucking braves. four years, sixty mil.

[hammersavage]

Fuck him. I wanted him but that's a hair too much for too long. Get Ollie now!

[Snoogans]

Fuck him. I wanted him but that's a hair too much for too long. Get Ollie now!

Fuck Ollie, GET JIMMY CHITWOOD

[hammersavage]

Fuck Ollie, GET JIMMY CHITWOOD

Nice one

I'll take Ben Sheets for 2 years too

[PD]

lowe to the fucking braves. four years, sixty mil.

Fuck him. I wanted him but that's a hair too much for too long. Get Ollie now!

what he said- Lowe > Ollie as fit for team,
but not at 4yrs 60m

[MHasegawa]

Shea Stadium's demolition is well underway.

Link here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/65516705@N00/sets/72157612491605118/show/)

[cougarjake13]

Shea Stadium's demolition is well underway.

Link here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/65516705@N00/sets/72157612491605118/show/)

is there a reason they didnt just implode it ??

[Kevin]

is there a reason they didnt just implode it ??

They can't do that shit anymore.

I think its environmental or something.

I'm guessing since it was built before 78, it has asbestos's, so imploding it would bring it all into the air

[cougarjake13]

They can't do that shit anymore.

I think its environmental or something.

I'm guessing since it was built before 78, it has asbestos's, so imploding it would bring it all into the air

ahh good reason

[Snoogans]

is there a reason they didnt just implode it ??

They usually wait til September to do that

[Snoogans]

They can't do that shit anymore.

I think its environmental or something.

I'm guessing since it was built before 78, it has asbestos's, so imploding it would bring it all into the air

I dont think thats the case since they still blow up some old stadiums and buildings. Its probably more because of how close it is to the other stadium

[K.C.]

Nice one

I'll take Ben Sheets for 2 years too

I hope the Mets get Sheets.

The fact that every club is avoiding him like the plague tells me he'll be on someone's DL by March 20th.

He seriously must have had a wad of duct tape keeping his shoulder attached, when he met clubs at the winter meetings, for how uninterested people are in him.

[spadanko]

I dont think thats the case since they still blow up some old stadiums and buildings. Its probably more because of how close it is to the other stadium

can not implode building in NYC. Plus Shea has too much asbestos, so they wouldn't do it anyway

[Snoogans]

clicked on the wrong thread

[vjr97]

manny ramirez will be a yankee

[cougarjake13]

manny ramirez will be a yankee

my guess is a san fran giant or back to la

[epo]

Andrew Jones to be released on Thursday morning: (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744576&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp&partnerId=rss_mlb)

After officially adding reliever Guillermo Mota to the roster on Wednesday, the Dodgers will officially subtract Andruw Jones from the roster on Thursday.

It's time for the Dodgers to trade or cut bait with Jones. Surprisingly, the Dodgers this week actually discussed a trade with two clubs interested enough in Jones to consider giving up something rather than compete with another club to get him as a free agent.

Dodgers management, however, isn't counting on any miracles. It still expects to be forced to release the 31-year-old outfielder as part of a recent contract renegotiation that assures Jones he'll play elsewhere in 2009 while providing the Dodgers payroll flexibility by deferring the remaining $21.1 million of his salary over the next six years.

Jones was at the Duke game tonight wearing an Atlanta Braves cap. I would probably read a shitload into that.

[epo]

Let the Prince Fielder trade rumors begin...... (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/37549774.html)

There is no debate that the Milwaukee Brewers need starting pitching. There is no disagreement that Prince Fielder is the most valuable commodity among the pieces they'd be willing to move.

And there is no question that Fielder intends to become a free agent after the 2011 season.

So, yes, the Brewers should avoid delaying the inevitable by trading Fielder as soon as a sensible opportunity presented itself. For example, on the off chance a pitching-rich team like Boston would be willing to give up a presentable starter, you do that and you do it now.

But just because the drumbeats for moving Fielder keep getting louder as his arbitration bonanza nears doesn't necessarily mean the short-term rationalizations have grown any simpler.

When the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel sports writers pen a column about your "tradeability", it's normally the first step to the end of your Brewers' career. Hello Boston?

[hammersavage]

I would kill for the Mets to get rid of Delgado and get a young 1st baseman like Fielder but its got no real shot logistically. Boston is the right fit.

[Snoogans]

I would kill for the Mets to get rid of Delgado and get a young 1st baseman like Fielder but its got no real shot logistically. Boston is the right fit.

i predict right now elsbury and buckholtz for fielder and cameron

[Knowledged_one]

I doubt they would part with their young pitching but the orioles have a lot of arms they could offer especially when they lost out on texieria

[Snoogans]

I doubt they would part with their young pitching but the orioles have a lot of arms they could offer especially when they lost out on texieria

the sox have beckett, dice k, lester, smoltz, penny and most likely masterson to start now. Buckholtz is expendable and not very good

[Knowledged_one]

The o's could give up matusz or arrieta or tillman

[ope]

The o's could give up matusz or arrieta or tillman

I'm sure the Brewers will want major league ready type players.

[Snoogans]

The o's could give up matusz or arrieta or tillman

who?

[Kevin]

I'm sure the Brewers will want major league ready type players.

They won't get it with Bucholtz ever.

Besides Olny and Gammons are gunna report it done soon, and its never gunna happen.

[ope]

The o's could give up matusz or arrieta or tillman

Plus the Brewers won't want Arrieta....he's a Boras guy. They seem done with them.

[Snoogans]

They won't get it with Bucholtz ever.

Besides Olny and Gammons are gunna report it done soon, and its never gunna happen.

i have kidnapped and gagged them and stashed them in Hottub's basement lock up

[Kevin]

Prince Fielder for Kei Igawa and Melky Cabrera.

[Snoogans]

Prince Fielder for Kei Igawa and Melky Cabrera.

and cameron too but milwaukee has to pay him, and take igawas deal

[Marc with a c]

Prince Fielder for Kei Igawa and Melky Cabrera.

he'd be a great lefty bat off the bench. if i were the yankees i'd do it.

[Knowledged_one]

Plus the Brewers won't want Arrieta....he's a Boras guy. They seem done with them.

yeah but he would be under brewers control for six years.

and matusz is major league ready and i would bet they would ship brian roberts as well

[Snoogans]

yeah but he would be under brewers control for six years.

and matusz is major league ready and i would bet they would ship brian roberts as well

i dont trust anyone whose name ends in a Z

[Knowledged_one]

he'd be a great lefty bat off the bench. if i were the yankees i'd do it.

if i were the brewers i would laugh at that offer

[Kevin]

he'd be a great lefty bat off the bench. if i were the yankees i'd do it.

Plus his dad played here, and we all know how much he loves his dad.

[Marc with a c]

you really hate manny huh?

[Marc with a c]

if i were the brewers i would laugh at that offer

if you were the brewers i'd laugh at you.

[Snoogans]

you really hate manny huh?

Dont even bring it up. I....I....I can't talk about it

[Snoogans]

if i were the brewers i would laugh at that offer

are you kidding? Igawa proved in Japan he is good. he just cant take the NY market. And everyone knows Melky is the best centerfielder in the league. Tremendous range and a gun. I might do that deal for buckholtz and elsbury

[Kevin]

you really hate manny huh?

and Clay Bucholtz

[Knowledged_one]

if you were the brewers i'd laugh at you.

if i was laughing then would you laugh with me

[Kevin]

are you kidding? Igawa proved in Japan he is good. he just cant take the NY market. And everyone knows Melky is the best centerfielder in the league. Tremendous range and a gun. I might do that deal for buckholtz and elsbury

I don't know. Melky hit 390 in the winter league. He might be untouchable right now.

[Knowledged_one]

Lord abraham would be angered at such a deal

[Kevin]

The o's could give up matusz or arrieta or tillman

Why would the Brewers want a dead army football player?

[Marc with a c]

if i was laughing then would you laugh with me

i'd wait for you to stop.

[jauble]

Why would the Brewers want a dead army football player?

Ouch and with the NFC championship game coming up...is someone jealous?

[HBox]

Why would the Brewers want a dead army football player?

No, he meant Pillman. TOTALLY different.

[joeyballsack]

Red Sox sign Gold Glove All Star 1B.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/youk_sox_close.html

[Kevin]

Red Sox sign Gold Glove All Star 1B.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/youk_sox_close.html



Texiera was not replacing Yukolis. He was replacing Lowell.

[Holes]

Red Sox sign Gold Glove All Star 1B.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/youk_sox_close.html

Good, now that he got his money, there is no way he puts up last year's numbers.

[El Mudo]

Good, now that he got his money, there is no way he puts up last year's numbers.



This is when I wish I had a sub to BP so I could access PECOTA :thumbdown:

His numbers have gone up every single year in most productive categories, but I think because he's 29 he should be heading right into his prime. And he's always been a productive guy with a high OBP (The Greek God of Walks), so I see no reason for his numbers to significantly downhill

[Kevin]

He gave them a good discount, he could have signed for much more.

[PerryWinkle]

so where is tubby Andrew Jones going to wind up?

[Kevin]

so where is tubby Andrew Jones going to wind up?



Fatlanta

[brettmojo]

so where is tubby Andrew Jones going to wind up?

Fatlanta
Mihami

[PerryWinkle]

nice little comedy pyramid boys :thumbup:


any chance new york looks at him for a year?

[Puggle_kicker]

nice little comedy pyramid boys :thumbup:


any chance new york looks at him for a year?

I hope you mean the Mets.

[Snoogans]

Yankees would do it. They need a CF. Get Andruw, get Manny, Sheets. Fuck it. you are gettin more city money, who cares

[brettmojo]

nice little comedy pyramid boys :thumbup:


any chance new york looks at him for a year?

I hope you mean the Mets.
Is he Hispanic?

[PerryWinkle]

I hope you mean the Mets.

i would love for them to get him and his 180 average. but i could see the yanks going after him. they been chasing Cameron all off season, and he isn't any better

[brettmojo]

Yankees would do it. They need a CF. Get Andruw, get Manny, Sheets. Fuck it. you are gettin more city money, who cares
They just got rid of one fat tuna, they don't need another.

[epo]

i would love for them to get him and his 180 average. but i could see the yanks going after him. they been chasing Cameron all off season, and he isn't any better

I love the perception that Mike Cameron is awful. Yes he strikes out too much, but its a ridiculous notion.

[foodcourtdruide]

I love the perception that Mike Cameron is awful. Yes he strikes out too much, but its a ridiculous notion.

I don't really get it either.

[Knowledged_one]

Orioles sign greg zaun the last piece of the puzzle is in place

[Kevin]

Orioles sign greg zaun the last piece of the puzzle is in place



Now they will only be 20games out

[cougarjake13]

so where is tubby Andrew Jones going to wind up?

Fatlanta

Mihami



the seattle marinaters

[TheMojoPin]

The Chicago Chubs.

The Arizona Diamondbackfats.

The Baltimore Oreoles.

[brettmojo]

so where is tubby Andrew Jones going to wind up?

Fatlanta

Mihami

the seattle marinaters
The Baltimore Oreos

Damn you Mojopin!

The Chicago Cub Cakes

[razorboy]

The LA Angelfood Cakes of Anaheim.

[brettmojo]

The Tampa Bay Devil's Food Cakes

[cougarjake13]

texas free range chickens

[razorboy]

The Houston Astro Pops.

[brettmojo]

The Minnesota Twinkies

[cougarjake13]

wow the most obvious one not yet posted



the philadelphia philly cheesesteaks

[brettmojo]

The Pittsburgh Pie Eaters

[cougarjake13]

kansas city royales with cheese

[El Mudo]

I love the perception that Mike Cameron is awful. Yes he strikes out too much, but its a ridiculous notion.

Eh...his average season nets you an OPS + of 106, with an OBP of .340 (ouch) and he's only had an EqA over .300 once.


I wouldn't expect him to do much, especially at age 35

[sailor]

new york meats?

colorado rocky roads?

[Kevin]

The Philadelphia Philly Cheesesteaks.

[disneyspy]

the detroit tiger lillies

[cougarjake13]

The Philadelphia Philly Cheesesteaks.

i beat you to this about 4 posts up

[cougarjake13]

florida marlins .... you dont even have to change it

[cougarjake13]

cincinnatti red velvet cakes

[brettmojo]

The Toledo Mud Pies

[cougarjake13]

The Toledo Mud Pies

aww man were going triple a now ??


this could get interesting

[epo]

Mets have interest in Sheets (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37791714.html)

As I reported in my Sunday column, the New York Mets have been sniffing around Brewers free agent Ben Sheets.

John Harper of the New York Daily News makes his case for the Mets signing Sheets. And David Lennon of Newsday notes that Sheets is on the Mets' radar. It sounds like the Mets prefer to keep Oliver Perez but are balking at agent Scott Boras' asking price (imagine that), which has them considering Sheets.

[K.C.]

Mets have interest in Sheets (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37791714.html)

Please, sign him to a multi-year deal
Please, sign him to a multi-year deal.


And then sign Pedro, too.

Can't wait for four of the five in the Binghamton Mets rotation to be on the MLB roster by June.

[epo]

Please, sign him to a multi-year deal
Please, sign him to a multi-year deal.


And then sign Pedro, too.

Can't wait for four of the five in the Binghamton Mets rotation to be on the MLB roster by June.

Boston Globe on Sheets (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/01/18/deep_thoughts_on_players/?page=4)

Ben Sheets, RHP, free agent: While Texas appears to be considering Sheets, don't be shocked if Philadelphia has interest as well. The Phillies have been arbitration-strapped, with a huge outlay likely headed Ryan Howard's way. The Phillies are trying to find a way to get someone of Sheets's caliber on their staff.

What was that about laughing?

[PD]

Please, sign him to a multi-year deal
Please, sign him to a multi-year deal.


And then sign Pedro, too.

Can't wait for four of the five in the Binghamton Mets rotation to be on the MLB roster by June.

be careful what you wish for.

Of course, if they sign Sheets they def wont sign Pedro; signing a SHeets means you need to sign a John Garland type as #5, and leave Redding as the spot starter.

[K.C.]

Boston Globe on Sheets (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/01/18/deep_thoughts_on_players/?page=4)



What was that about laughing?

Ugh.

Thanks for ruining my day, Epo.

Please tell me that's a Bob Ryan story so I can ignore it in its entirety.

[hammersavage]

be careful what you wish for.

Of course, if they sign Sheets they def wont sign Pedro; signing a SHeets means you need to sign a John Garland type as #5, and leave Redding as the spot starter.

Exactly. I would actually prefer this. Let Garland have the 5 and Redding fill in for the times Sheets is on the DL. The rest of the time, hes a top 5 pitcher in the NL. I'll take it for one year, two max.

[K.C.]

Exactly. I would actually prefer this. Let Garland have the 5 and Redding fill in for the times Sheets is on the DL. The rest of the time, hes a top 5 pitcher in the NL. I'll take it for one year, two max.

It's a little unrealistic to think they'll sign Garland and Sheets.

Mets fans talk as if the Wilpons are ready to spend on par with the Yankees when they clearly won't.

They're basically at their payroll threshold right now. It would be stretching their coffers to re-sign Ollie at this point.

They may have one mid-level move left in them for this offseason.

[hammersavage]

It's a little unrealistic to think they'll sign Garland and Sheets.

Mets fans talk as if the Wilpons are ready to spend on par with the Yankees when they clearly won't.

They're basically at their payroll threshold right now. It would be stretching their coffers to re-sign Ollie at this point.

They may have one mid-level move left in them for this offseason.

Ben Sheets seems to be open to accepting a one-year deal with major incentives that would start at about $6 million. Garland is gonna get $5 million. Ollie is looking for $12 or $13 million. The money would be a wash.

They will not go into the season without Ollie or Sheets/Garland.

[Knowledged_one]

Garland is asking for 12 mil a year

[hammersavage]

I made a mistake. He rejected a $5 million offer from Diamondbacks. He'll end up getting $8 or $9 million. He was looking for a 2/$20 deal, not $12 per.

[K.C.]

I made a mistake. He rejected a $5 million offer from Diamondbacks. He'll end up getting $8 or $9 million. He was looking for a 2/$20 deal, not $12 per.

That's out of their price range.

It's been a while since I crunched the numbers, but I believe I had the Mets at right around their payroll number from last year, or slightly over it.

They've given no indication they're going to significantly raise it, and it's been widely speculated that the Wilpons got taken to the cleaners with this Madoff scandal.

I could see them stretching for Ollie or maybe one out of Garland or Sheets, but not two pitchers.

[hammersavage]

Fair enough. The money isn't too far off though.

[Knowledged_one]

Well his price either varies by the team or he is coming down on his asking price because at the winter meetings he and his rep told bmore he wants 12 mil a year

[K.C.]

Fair enough. The money isn't too far off though.

I found my numbers:
*-denotes estimated number

C - Brian Schneider ($4.9 mil)
1B - Carlos Delgado ($12 mil)
2B - Luis Castillo ($6 mil)
3B - David Wright ($7.5 mil)
SS - Jose Reyes ($5.75 mil)
LF - Daniel Murphy ($0.4 mil)
CF - Carlos Beltran ($18.5 mil)
RF - Ryan Church ($3 mil*)

Bench:
C - Ramon Castro ($2.5 mil)
IF - Alex Cora ($2 mil)
OF - Fernando Tatis ($1.7 mil)
OF - Jeremy Reed ($1 mil*)
OF - Angel Pagan ($0.44 mil*)

SP - Johan Santana ($20 mil)
SP - Mike Pelfrey ($1.1 mil*)
SP - John Maine ($3 mil*)
SP - Tim Redding ($2.25 mil)
SP - Jonathan Niese ($0.44 mil)


CL - Francisco Rodriguez ($10.5 mil)
SU - J.J. Putz ($5.5 mil)
MR - Pedro Feliciano ($1.7 mil*)
MR - Duaner Sanchez ($1.1 mil*)
MR - Sean Green ($0.44 mil*)
LR - Brian Stokes ($0.44 mil*)
LR - Connor Robertson ($0.44 mil*)


Miscellanious:
OF - Marlon Anderson ($1.15 mil)
RP - Scott Schoeneweis ($1.6 mil)
RP - Billy Wagner ($10.5 mil)


The 2008 payroll was $138 mil

Right now they sit at $126 mil.

So let's say they top out at 140. That gives them 14 million left to play with this offseason. If they got Garland for 10 a year, they'd have to convince Sheets to take in the neighborhood of 4-5.

That would also stop them from making any move to improve 2B, their OF, or their bullpen any further.

I guess it's not inconceivable they get both.

But as bad a signing as I think Sheets actually is, I still see him getting like one year, 8 million or one year 9 million when everything is done.

Unless the Mets come out and say they're raising their payroll, I would expect one more solid signing and a little more patch work.

[PD]

Unless the Mets come out and say they're raising their payroll, I would expect one more solid signing and a little more patch work.

Solid if it is Ollie at decent / high salary.
Sheets is a crapshoot (money wise).so is Garland (I think he's over reaching).

as far as spending, I don't think anyone knows exactly where it will be.
You're probably right KC, but while I don't think they will throw around Yankee money, I do think they can stretch the line if it "makes sense".

by the way, a few arbitration avoiding contracts -
1 yr for Duaner Sanchez, and 3 yr deal for Ryan Madson (which is interesting considering Boras is his agent)

[NickyL0885]

i'm all for the mets getting Dunn. I dont think Delgado will replicate his last year numbers. Dunn, while he strikesout alot, hits 40HR and walks a ton. I would trade Delgado. His value is way high right now. I'm sure the Angels would give something good back, like a starter. I'd take Saunders or Santana from them. Mets have to break up the core. hasnt worked for 2 years now. It wont change this year.

Also, the Mets have to think about re-signing Beltran. He is in his 2nd to last year. Hes still relatively young, plays good D, and can hit. I wouldn't mind here for another 3-4 years.

[TheMojoPin]

Garland is a maniac. He's mediocre at best. Anyone picking between him and Sheets should go with Sheets every time or jump off of a bridge. Sheets has his injury problems, but when he's not hurt he's one of the best. If people were talking about signing a MUCH lesser pitcher with just as bad an injury track record in Burnett, it's kinda nuts Sheets is still out there.

[Knowledged_one]

Os extend markakis for 6 years 66 mil so now the yanks have to wait till 2014 to get him

[joeyballsack]

i'm all for the mets getting Dunn. I dont think Delgado will replicate his last year numbers. Dunn, while he strikesout alot, hits 40HR and walks a ton. I would trade Delgado. His value is way high right now. I'm sure the Angels would give something good back, like a starter. I'd take Saunders or Santana from them. Mets have to break up the core. hasnt worked for 2 years now. It wont change this year.

Also, the Mets have to think about re-signing Beltran. He is in his 2nd to last year. Hes still relatively young, plays good D, and can hit. I wouldn't mind here for another 3-4 years.

The Angels would be crazy to trade either of those young guys for an aging Delgado.

[TheMojoPin]

Os extend markakis for 6 years 66 mil so now the yanks have to wait till 2014 to get him

You guys have a pretty solid young OF now. Hopefully they'll build off of it and the couple other decent players they have and Angelos will stop being a trollish douche.

[epo]

i'm all for the mets getting Dunn. I dont think Delgado will replicate his last year numbers. Dunn, while he strikesout alot, hits 40HR and walks a ton. I would trade Delgado. His value is way high right now. I'm sure the Angels would give something good back, like a starter. I'd take Saunders or Santana from them. Mets have to break up the core. hasnt worked for 2 years now. It wont change this year.

Also, the Mets have to think about re-signing Beltran. He is in his 2nd to last year. Hes still relatively young, plays good D, and can hit. I wouldn't mind here for another 3-4 years.

I don't understand how Delgado's value would be high? He's a soon to be 37 year old first baseman who makes $16million per year. The Angels or any other team would be insane to give the Mets a pitcher as valuable as Saunders or Santana for him.

[Knowledged_one]

The Angels would be crazy to trade either of those young guys for an aging Delgado.

yeah i think all sane people here think the same

[Knowledged_one]

You guys have a pretty solid young OF now. Hopefully they'll build off of it and the couple other decent players they have and Angelos will stop being a trollish douche.

i might be the only person who doesnt blame angelos especially since they hired mcphail he has been hands off and let him do his job of rebuilding (which mcphail has done a great job of)
the problem is that they are at an economic disadvantage in the al east

[NickyL0885]

The Angels would be crazy to trade either of those young guys for an aging Delgado.

They lost Teixeira and need a power bat. Delgado is perfect. He can DH at times. He is also on the last year of his contract.

[Kevin]

They lost Teixeira and need a power bat. Delgado is perfect. He can DH at times. He is also on the last year of his contract.



You seriously think the Angels would deal anyone remotly good for an old 1B?

[cougarjake13]

exactly they (angels) may want or need him but the mets arent getting anything substantial for him

[NickyL0885]

exactly they (angels) may want or need him but the mets arent getting anything substantial for him

ok so throw in a prospect to the deal. Nick Evans is expendable. ya never know. But Delgado is there best tradable player right now that has value. Im sure some american league team who needs a power bat would bite. age is just a number.

[Knowledged_one]

Yeah give up a valuable pitcher for an old one year rent a player
do you know anything about baseball or are you just a mets fan

[Knowledged_one]

The mets would be better off keeping him then let him go for the draft picks

[NickyL0885]

The mets would be better off keeping him then let him go for the draft picks

assuming he doesnt retire. If he gets to 500HR this year, which he has a chance to do, I see him retiring.

[NickyL0885]

Yeah give up a valuable pitcher for an old one year rent a player
do you know anything about baseball or are you just a mets fan

been done before im sure.

[Knowledged_one]

I think the orioles should trade melvin mora for albert pujols since they need a firstbaseman

[Kevin]

been done before im sure.



Not by a smart org like the Angel's it hasen't.. You picked the wrong California team. Sabian deals good young pitchers for old has beens. If Omar offers that deal, all he will hear is laughter followed by, good one omar, yoy sure know how to tell a good joke. Then Omar will hear the click of the phone.

[Knowledged_one]

ok so throw in a prospect to the deal. Nick Evans is expendable. ya never know. But Delgado is there best tradable player right now that has value. Im sure some american league team who needs a power bat would bite. age is just a number.

now i know what bdc would be like if he were a mets fan

[TheMojoPin]

i might be the only person who doesnt blame angelos especially since they hired mcphail he has been hands off and let him do his job of rebuilding (which mcphail has done a great job of)
the problem is that they are at an economic disadvantage in the al east

He fucked up trading Brian Roberts. The O's were about to rob the Cubs blind in the last offseason for Roberts until Angelos stepped in and denied it due to his mancrush.

[Knowledged_one]

He fucked up trading Brian Roberts. The O's were about to rob the Cubs blind in the last offseason for Roberts until Angelos stepped in and denied it due to his mancrush.

i did forget about that one

[NickyL0885]

I think the orioles should trade melvin mora for albert pujols since they need a firstbaseman

har har.