MMA: Lesnar's first UFC opponent Frank Mir!

[MM2]

I don't know how I feel about this. Brock Lesnar is a beast, but is very new to the MMA world. Sure he's a world class wrestler, but in MMA you can't be a one trick pony. You have to have other skills so that you are able to take advantage of your dominant skills.

Frank Mir has great bjj, and broke Tim Sylvia's arm in half a few years ago. Mir is a former Heavyweight champ, albeit before he had a horrible motorcycle crash. Lesnar has the size and strength advantage, but in MMA that's not always enough, especailly against top competition like Mir.

I thought the UFC would baby Lesnar for at least his first few fights, give him a chance to build steam. I do think that this may work out considering if he wins, it gives him a quality win versus a quality opponent and drives up his value really quickly. If he loses then it doesn't really matter because he should lose to a MMA vet like Mir in his second professional fight. If the UFC threw him in there with a pathetic fighter and Lesnar lost then his value would be totally lost.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I'm excited to see Lesnar in the cage, he's a beast!

[Ritalin]

Frank Mir? Where did they dig him up from? When's the last time he fought?

I think it's a descent matchup. I'm looking forward to Bisbing/Evans in 2 weeks. Evans just might top my most underrated fighter list.

[MM2]

Frank Mir? Where did they dig him up from? When's the last time he fought?

I think it's a descent matchup. I'm looking forward to Bisbing/Evans in 2 weeks. Evans just might top my most underrated fighter list.

Haha, well he fought some no name in August, and had 3 fights in 2006. He got knocked out by Brandon Vera, but he looked out of shape, and must have not trained properly. He's definitely not a top contender anymore but for Brock's second MMA fight he's a huge step up in competition. I'm excited to see how Lesnar reacts to Mir trying to break his arm.

Yeah, Evans is a stud but I'm disappointed that there wasn't a Tito Ortiz rematch. I really want to see this fight but as a main event? I think they could have done better then that. Evans coming off a draw, in a fight that Ortiz lost a point for grabbing the fence on a slam that Evans got off anyways and Bisping who's coming off a fight with Hammil in which most people think he lost. I don't, I saw the fight as pretty even.

There is talk of Matt Hughes moving up to 185 to fight Anderson Silva. I would love to see that. Dan Henderson is probably moving down to 185, so that will be a fight I'd like to see too. Anderson Silva is just amazing, and I want to see him lose.

[Fallon]

Is the F5 legal in MMA?

[MM2]

Is the F5 legal in MMA?

Yes, and I'd love to see him try to pull it off :thumbup:

[donnie_darko]

man i wish i knew what you guys were talking about
it sounds exciting!

this f5 shit sounds sexy!

i have my f5 key mapped for "next song" in itunes.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

F5 was Brock's Silly Finisher that he botched 7-10 times


I cant wait for Brock to get pummeled, end of a Push maybe he can be an American Gladiator

:king:

[EddieMoscone]

Mir has looked like shit for the most part since coming back from his motorcycle accident, but he could still be a world of trouble for Lesnar. Mir can easilly finish the fight on the ground from his back, which is where Brock will try and get him anyway. In either case it probably won't last long.

[PhishHead]

I think the one thing that will set brock apart from other people who try MMA is his wrestling background and his amazing athletic skill set. He was a 4 time all american, 2 time national champion and had a record of 106-5 he isn't a fluke when it comes to pure greco roman wrestling. Now if you look at Couture or Matt Hughes same exact they were pure wrestlers and the rest came to them.

Now Mir, man his is a story of talent gone completely to waste. He has always been very very good, but his one drawback has always been cardio he has the worse cardio EVER if he didn't beat his opponent within the first round he was most likely in trouble the rest of the way through. Then he breaks Tim's arm which was awesome, and gets into a horrible accident and almost dies. Now his cardio is even worse then ever. Mir really should just stick with bjj tourneys and not come back to UFC he just cant handle it.

Brock is definitely a physical beast and I do not believe Mir can stop his takedowns or be able to take him down as brocks takedown defense should be amazing considering his background, plus he is training with Greg Nelson at Minnesota MMA Academy he is going to be a monster, he wont be able to compete with some of the big dogs for a bit but 2-3 years he will be very good.

[Chigworthy]

Well there's no shortage of wrestlers who have made a career out of MMA, i.e. Couture, Randleman, Evans, Coleman, Kerr, etc. I don't know much about professional wrestling, but MMA is a different world. However, if Lesnar trains properly, I don't see why he couldn't do decently in the UFC.

I think Lesnar would make a mistake in underestimating Mir. He did win his last fight in August, and MMA seems to offer plenty of opportunities for comebacks.

[PhishHead]

Well there's no shortage of wrestlers who have made a career out of MMA, i.e. Couture, Randleman, Evans, Coleman, Kerr, etc. I don't know much about professional wrestling, but MMA is a different world. However, if Lesnar trains properly, I don't see why he couldn't do decently in the UFC.

I think Lesnar would make a mistake in underestimating Mir. He did win his last fight in August, and MMA seems to offer plenty of opportunities for comebacks.

its not just lesnar being a pro wrestler its lesnar actually being a word class greco roman wrestler that makes him different from say John Cena joining MMA.

Mir is not so much a comeback as it is someone finishing up their contract with UFC, he keeps getting fights because he has a contract for so many and what not.

I dont think Lesnar will underestimate him and obviously Mir has better bjj skills and can submit him but again maybe lesnar is too powerful and can power himself out of submissions the way Randleman use too.

[Fallon]

F5 was Brock's Silly Finisher that he botched 7-10 times

:king:

Are you Sir saying this is silly?!

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I-O1fVRIQ6s&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I-O1fVRIQ6s&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Ritalin]

Haha, well he fought some no name in August, and had 3 fights in 2006. He got knocked out by Brandon Vera, but he looked out of shape, and must have not trained properly. He's definitely not a top contender anymore but for Brock's second MMA fight he's a huge step up in competition. I'm excited to see how Lesnar reacts to Mir trying to break his arm.

Yeah, Evans is a stud but I'm disappointed that there wasn't a Tito Ortiz rematch. I really want to see this fight but as a main event? I think they could have done better then that. Evans coming off a draw, in a fight that Ortiz lost a point for grabbing the fence on a slam that Evans got off anyways and Bisping who's coming off a fight with Hammil in which most people think he lost. I don't, I saw the fight as pretty even.

There is talk of Matt Hughes moving up to 185 to fight Anderson Silva. I would love to see that. Dan Henderson is probably moving down to 185, so that will be a fight I'd like to see too. Anderson Silva is just amazing, and I want to see him lose.

That would be a great card: the night of the rematch, with all the close fights going again. Tito/Evans and Bisping/Hammil would be 2 that I would watch again. I think/hope that Evans learned something from the Ortiz fight about being outworked, because up until now he's been getting by on superior athleticism.

I think Anderson Silva would beat Matt Hughes, but it would be a great fight. Honestly, I might be one of the few people who think that Hughes is going to have his hands full with Serra. I also have to admit that I can't stand Hughes. He's a hypocritical racist hayseed.
Dan Henderson/Matt Hughes would be a great fight too.

Why do you want to see Silva lose?

[Ritalin]

F5 was Brock's Silly Finisher that he botched 7-10 times


I cant wait for Brock to get pummeled, end of a Push maybe he can be an American Gladiator

:king:

funny

[MM2]

That would be a great card: the night of the rematch, with all the close fights going again. Tito/Evans and Bisping/Hammil would be 2 that I would watch again. I think/hope that Evans learned something from the Ortiz fight about being outworked, because up until now he's been getting by on superior athleticism.

I think Anderson Silva would beat Matt Hughes, but it would be a great fight. Honestly, I might be one of the few people who think that Hughes is going to have his hands full with Serra. I also have to admit that I can't stand Hughes. He's a hypocritical racist hayseed.
Dan Henderson/Matt Hughes would be a great fight too.

Why do you want to see Silva lose?

I hate Hughes too, always have. But I think he'll pretty much dominate Serra, he won't let Serra use his punching power. If Hughes tries to stand with Serra, it will be a short night for Hughes.

I don't know why I want to see Silva lose, I just don't like how dominate he's been. He's amazing and fun to watch, but I want to see him in there with someone I think can beat him. That hasn't happened yet. He made Franklin look so bad in both fights, and Franklin is a world class MMA fighter. I want to see Dan Henderson and Silva fight.

You know what fight I would love to see, which has an outside chance at happening, is Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva. I think St. Pierre is perfect for 170, but he could fight at 185. That would be an awesome fight. Probably will never happen, but man that would be great!

[PhishHead]

I hate Hughes too, always have. But I think he'll pretty much dominate Serra, he won't let Serra use his punching power. If Hughes tries to stand with Serra, it will be a short night for Hughes.

I don't know why I want to see Silva lose, I just don't like how dominate he's been. He's amazing and fun to watch, but I want to see him in there with someone I think can beat him. That hasn't happened yet. He made Franklin look so bad in both fights, and Franklin is a world class MMA fighter. I want to see Dan Henderson and Silva fight.

You know what fight I would love to see, which has an outside chance at happening, is Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva. I think St. Pierre is perfect for 170, but he could fight at 185. That would be an awesome fight. Probably will never happen, but man that would be great!

Silva most likely wont fight Hendo, Hendo does not want to come down from 205 even though Dana keeps begging him too. Hendo only had a few fights at 185 and it was all during the GP at Pride he was often fighting at LHW and HW so I am sure he would have to cut alot from his walking weight to get down to 185.

Even though Kang recently lost, him and Filho would be the best competition for Silva, but there are catches, Silva and Filho will not fight one another as they are very good friends and both have stated they wish not to fight one another. Kang is the next one, he recently lost a very surprising fight but got caught like most fighters do eventually.

Lindland would be a good matchup but he will never be back in the UFC as long as Dana is there. Which leaves us with Okami. Okami does have a "victory" over silva where silva was DQed for an illegal kick, anyone who has seen the fight knows Okami was getting completely dominated until the time of the illegal kick, so in reality Okami most likely couldnt be Silva now when he is at the top of his game. Plus okami just left UFC cause his contract expired and he resigned elsewhere.

Now for welterweights to move up to Silva is very hard. You have to remember silva walks around alot heavier then 185, whereas guys like Serra and GNP walk around 185-190. Silva most likely walks around at 200. Hughes would be the most logical choice to face silva but I still see Silva overpowering him and kneeing him to death.

Silva will be at the top for awhile unless he agrees to fight Filho(who still needs some more big time experience) or until some up and comer comes out of nowhere or some adds weight or decides to cut alot. 185 lb division is very weak right now.

[Ritalin]

Silva most likely wont fight Hendo, Hendo does not want to come down from 205 even though Dana keeps begging him too. Hendo only had a few fights at 185 and it was all during the GP at Pride he was often fighting at LHW and HW so I am sure he would have to cut alot from his walking weight to get down to 185.

Even though Kang recently lost, him and Filho would be the best competition for Silva, but there are catches, Silva and Filho will not fight one another as they are very good friends and both have stated they wish not to fight one another. Kang is the next one, he recently lost a very surprising fight but got caught like most fighters do eventually.

Lindland would be a good matchup but he will never be back in the UFC as long as Dana is there. Which leaves us with Okami. Okami does have a "victory" over silva where silva was DQed for an illegal kick, anyone who has seen the fight knows Okami was getting completely dominated until the time of the illegal kick, so in reality Okami most likely couldnt be Silva now when he is at the top of his game. Plus okami just left UFC cause his contract expired and he resigned elsewhere.

Now for welterweights to move up to Silva is very hard. You have to remember silva walks around alot heavier then 185, whereas guys like Serra and GNP walk around 185-190. Silva most likely walks around at 200. Hughes would be the most logical choice to face silva but I still see Silva overpowering him and kneeing him to death.

Silva will be at the top for awhile unless he agrees to fight Filho(who still needs some more big time experience) or until some up and comer comes out of nowhere or some adds weight or decides to cut alot. 185 lb division is very weak right now.

I would be interested to see what Silva would do with Hughes on the ground. I know Silva has great Jiu Jitsu, but as much as I hate him, Hughes is a real monster on the ground. It would be a hard take down, but if Hughes had him on his back, that could be trouble.

UNLESS the UFC comes to its senses and makes Hughes work on the ground. I'm so sick of watching fights where he lays on top of someone for minutes, doing nothing. If he's not doing any work they need to stand them up.

[MM2]

Silva most likely wont fight Hendo, Hendo does not want to come down from 205 even though Dana keeps begging him too. Hendo only had a few fights at 185 and it was all during the GP at Pride he was often fighting at LHW and HW so I am sure he would have to cut alot from his walking weight to get down to 185.

Even though Kang recently lost, him and Filho would be the best competition for Silva, but there are catches, Silva and Filho will not fight one another as they are very good friends and both have stated they wish not to fight one another. Kang is the next one, he recently lost a very surprising fight but got caught like most fighters do eventually.

Lindland would be a good matchup but he will never be back in the UFC as long as Dana is there. Which leaves us with Okami. Okami does have a "victory" over silva where silva was DQed for an illegal kick, anyone who has seen the fight knows Okami was getting completely dominated until the time of the illegal kick, so in reality Okami most likely couldnt be Silva now when he is at the top of his game. Plus okami just left UFC cause his contract expired and he resigned elsewhere.

Now for welterweights to move up to Silva is very hard. You have to remember silva walks around alot heavier then 185, whereas guys like Serra and GNP walk around 185-190. Silva most likely walks around at 200. Hughes would be the most logical choice to face silva but I still see Silva overpowering him and kneeing him to death.

Silva will be at the top for awhile unless he agrees to fight Filho(who still needs some more big time experience) or until some up and comer comes out of nowhere or some adds weight or decides to cut alot. 185 lb division is very weak right now.

Actually I read an article that said Hendo made it seem as though he will be moving down. He talked to Bubba the Love Sponge in Vegas a few weeks ago and said that his contract talks were going well and he most likely will be moving down to 185. Now take that for what its worth, but it makes sense.

I know that it's been said that he refuses to move down, but I think if Dana White throws enough money at him, he'll move down. This is probably his last chance at a huge deal since he's already close to 40. Dana White knows that a Silva/Hendo match will garner alot more PPV buys, then any other fight with Silva or Hendo.

Of course most fighters move down in weight, you don't see many fighters move up and succeed. Randy is one, and Dan Henderson of course held both the WW and LHW titles in Pride. I think GSP walks around alot bigger then 170. I think GSP is a huge 170, and that's the perfect weight for him, but I think he could move up and succeed. And if he moved up to face Silva and lost, he could just move back down and dominate 170 again. I know that fight will most likely never happen, but man it would be so awesome.

The bottom line is the UFC must do something to inject some life into the 185 division. That Kang loss was bad, so I don't see him coming in until he gets his value back up. Your right about Linland, he'll never fight in the UFC again.

Its sad to say, but I think that if Silva was american, or at least spoke english, this would be a great thing for the UFC. Since he doesn't, they can't really market him and that is so unfortunate because is SO dominant. He could easily go on a Chuck Liddell like KO string and just run through everyone. Did anyone see after the Franklin fight where Silva grabbed the mic from Joe Rogan and gave the little speech in english, it was so obvious that he was memorizing that for weeks haha.

[PhishHead]

Actually I read an article that said Hendo made it seem as though he will be moving down. He talked to Bubba the Love Sponge in Vegas a few weeks ago and said that his contract talks were going well and he most likely will be moving down to 185. Now take that for what its worth, but it makes sense.

I know that it's been said that he refuses to move down, but I think if Dana White throws enough money at him, he'll move down. This is probably his last chance at a huge deal since he's already close to 40. Dana White knows that a Silva/Hendo match will garner alot more PPV buys, then any other fight with Silva or Hendo.

Of course most fighters move down in weight, you don't see many fighters move up and succeed. Randy is one, and Dan Henderson of course held both the WW and LHW titles in Pride. I think GSP walks around alot bigger then 170. I think GSP is a huge 170, and that's the perfect weight for him, but I think he could move up and succeed. And if he moved up to face Silva and lost, he could just move back down and dominate 170 again. I know that fight will most likely never happen, but man it would be so awesome.

The bottom line is the UFC must do something to inject some life into the 185 division. That Kang loss was bad, so I don't see him coming in until he gets his value back up. Your right about Linland, he'll never fight in the UFC again.

Its sad to say, but I think that if Silva was american, or at least spoke english, this would be a great thing for the UFC. Since he doesn't, they can't really market him and that is so unfortunate because is SO dominant. He could easily go on a Chuck Liddell like KO string and just run through everyone. Did anyone see after the Franklin fight where Silva grabbed the mic from Joe Rogan and gave the little speech in english, it was so obvious that he was memorizing that for weeks haha.

i love silva and everything about it and I think he is definitely marketable if you just watch him he is hilarious. He has so much fun out there and yet serious at the same time. Since UFC hardly ever had big foreign superstars before because they all went to Pride. UFC will be able to market him it will just take time. Americans need to just be more accepting of foreign fighters, so many are just too dumb. GSP speaks horrible english and they market him just fine. I think overtime people will just appreciate spider for what he is.

[MM2]

i love silva and everything about it and I think he is definitely marketable if you just watch him he is hilarious. He has so much fun out there and yet serious at the same time. Since UFC hardly ever had big foreign superstars before because they all went to Pride. UFC will be able to market him it will just take time. Americans need to just be more accepting of foreign fighters, so many are just too dumb. GSP speaks horrible english and they market him just fine. I think overtime people will just appreciate spider for what he is.

I don't think GSP gets marketed as well as he could and you are right, he speaks horrible english, but at least he speaks it. Anderson Silva deserves to be marketed like Chuck Liddell, but unless he learns english you won't hear him on O&A or on ESPN like Rampage. The dominance that Silva has over his division could make the UFC huge for the casual fan. But the casual fan isn't going to be able to get behind him. Its really a shame.

And I totally understand that he's hilarious, when he did that Roy Jones Jr. shake and bake in the middle of the cage against Franklin, I almost pissed my pants. But to be really huge he's gotta be able to communicate. I think the fact that he is a funny guy and has so much fun makes him harder to market. Like if he was an a-hole they could push him that way and people would just buy PPVs hoping he'll lose.

For real MMA fans, he's great and any Silva fight will be worth the price of the PPV. But for a casual fan, I'm not so sure.

[PhishHead]

I don't think GSP gets marketed as well as he could and you are right, he speaks horrible english, but at least he speaks it. Anderson Silva deserves to be marketed like Chuck Liddell, but unless he learns english you won't hear him on O&A or on ESPN like Rampage. The dominance that Silva has over his division could make the UFC huge for the casual fan. But the casual fan isn't going to be able to get behind him. Its really a shame.

And I totally understand that he's hilarious, when he did that Roy Jones Jr. shake and bake in the middle of the cage against Franklin, I almost pissed my pants. But to be really huge he's gotta be able to communicate. I think the fact that he is a funny guy and has so much fun makes him harder to market. Like if he was an a-hole they could push him that way and people would just buy PPVs hoping he'll lose.

For real MMA fans, he's great and any Silva fight will be worth the price of the PPV. But for a casual fan, I'm not so sure.

screw the casual fans they are the ones who ruin the sport anyway because they dont even understand the complexity of some of the submissions and how amazing it really is. For example when mir broke sylvias arm the entire crowd had no idea what the heck happened because they didnt know a simple armbar. Thats the major problem casual fans just do not understand submissions, it is a real shame because those are the real talented things not the stupid knockouts.

I bet if the Diaz-Gomi fight happened in the USA not one fan would understand why the gogoplata was such a big deal.

[MM2]

screw the casual fans they are the ones who ruin the sport anyway because they dont even understand the complexity of some of the submissions and how amazing it really is. For example when mir broke sylvias arm the entire crowd had no idea what the heck happened because they didnt know a simple armbar. Thats the major problem casual fans just do not understand submissions, it is a real shame because those are the real talented things not the stupid knockouts.

I bet if the Diaz-Gomi fight happened in the USA not one fan would understand why the gogoplata was such a big deal.

Yeah definitely true, I completely agree. There is a big difference between a great ground fight where guys are going for all kinds of submissions and a fight where you just have a big wrestler laying on top of someone.

If people would pay attention they would see a whole new world of grappling and submissions. I can enjoy a great ground fight, but I also love a stand up slugfest like Liddell/Silva is going to be.

[EddieMoscone]

screw the casual fans they are the ones who ruin the sport anyway because they dont even understand the complexity of some of the submissions and how amazing it really is. For example when mir broke sylvias arm the entire crowd had no idea what the heck happened because they didnt know a simple armbar. Thats the major problem casual fans just do not understand submissions, it is a real shame because those are the real talented things not the stupid knockouts.

I understand your frustration, but if it wasn't for the casual fan the sport would be dead. Fighters weren't going to sacrifice there well being for a couple of hundred bucks forever.

[PhishHead]

I understand your frustration, but if it wasn't for the casual fan the sport would be dead. Fighters weren't going to sacrifice there well being for a couple of hundred bucks forever.

I understand that but I am just saying that too many fans dismiss fighters, at least in the US, because they do not speak english that is just messed up.

That never occurred at Pride, yes the american fighters were scrutinized much more by refs and the refs favored the japanese fighters heavily but the fans loved everyone no matter their background, where here US casual fans are freaking stupid and just care if you can speak the language, it happens in boxing all the time as well.

[MM2]

I understand that but I am just saying that too many fans dismiss fighters, at least in the US, because they do not speak english that is just messed up.

That never occurred at Pride, yes the american fighters were scrutinized much more by refs and the refs favored the japanese fighters heavily but the fans loved everyone no matter their background, where here US casual fans are freaking stupid and just care if you can speak the language, it happens in boxing all the time as well.

Yeah, it sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is. My favorite fighter is GSP, and he's cringe worthy when trying to speak.

What I was trying to say is that its really a shame that Anderson Silva won't get the publicity he deserves because he can't speak english. It sucks.

[Ritalin]

See, I think that the little speech Anderson Silva gave after the Franklin fight bodes well for him. He'll learn enough English to get by, and the crowd loves him.

I couldn't believe they made him go to Cincinnati for the second fight, and after he crushed Franklin, I thought the crowd gave him a pretty nice ovation.

I think the average MMA fan is a pretty intelligent about the sport and willing to root for a Brazilian. It's a new world, you know, and I think it's less important where the fighter is from than how well the guy fights. Besides, I think UFC is going to have to market itself more as a sport and an event than to market individual fighters, because fighters are going to lose more often than they do in other sports. I hope that's their strategy, because that will mean that they keep giving us the best matchups, as opposed to protecting the "names" with easy fights.

There are no easy fights in MMA. That's why it's great.

[PhishHead]

See, I think that the little speech Anderson Silva gave after the Franklin fight bodes well for him. He'll learn enough English to get by, and the crowd loves him.

I couldn't believe they made him go to Cincinnati for the second fight, and after he crushed Franklin, I thought the crowd gave him a pretty nice ovation.

I think the average MMA fan is a pretty intelligent about the sport and willing to root for a Brazilian. It's a new world, you know, and I think it's less important where the fighter is from than how well the guy fights. Besides, I think UFC is going to have to market itself more as a sport and an event than to market individual fighters, because fighters are going to lose more often than they do in other sports. I hope that's their strategy, because that will mean that they keep giving us the best matchups, as opposed to protecting the "names" with easy fights.

There are no easy fights in MMA. That's why it's great.

ah yes like the main event at the NJ event on the 17th, bisping v evans, one guy who should have lost his last match but got lucky by fighting in england and another guy who got outworked by tito and should have lost just for being a lazy ass in the later rounds. :lol:

i was very disappointed in the matchups for the NJ event as I really wanted to go it. Hopefully the Alexander fight is at least good.

[Ritalin]

ah yes like the main event at the NJ event on the 17th, bisping v evans, one guy who should have lost his last match but got lucky by fighting in england and another guy who got outworked by tito and should have lost just for being a lazy ass in the later rounds. :lol:

i was very disappointed in the matchups for the NJ event as I really wanted to go it. Hopefully the Alexander fight is at least good.

See, I think that fight will be a good one, and it does prove my point. UFC is clearly grooming Bisping to be a star - having him headline a card in the UK - but they're not lining up cupcakes for him. Evans is going to give him all he can handle. Styles make fights, and they're both really well rounded. I think Evans has faster hands, and if he's learned not to take time off in the middle of rounds he should win.

And a lot of guys get outworked by Tito. I always thought Tito was overrated, but I have to admit, he works his ass off. And, I liked him as a coach on Ultimate Fighter.

[MM2]

ah yes like the main event at the NJ event on the 17th, bisping v evans, one guy who should have lost his last match but got lucky by fighting in england and another guy who got outworked by tito and should have lost just for being a lazy ass in the later rounds. :lol:

i was very disappointed in the matchups for the NJ event as I really wanted to go it. Hopefully the Alexander fight is at least good.

I sort of agree with you. The Evans/Bisping fight is going to be a great fight, should it be a PPV main event? No. But its still going to be a great fight. And you gotta like having a Huston Alexander fight on a card. Also, Karo fights are fun to watch. Gotta love the judo throws.

I also don't think Bisping won because he was fighting in England. The two American judges are the ones that scored it for him. The English judge scored it for Hammil. I would say it could have gone either way. I thought it should be a draw.

This next PPV will be one of the weakest in recent memory, but it still has some good matchups.

[MM2]

See, I think that fight will be a good one, and it does prove my point. UFC is clearly grooming Bisping to be a star - having him headline a card in the UK - but they're not lining up cupcakes for him. Evans is going to give him all he can handle. Styles make fights, and they're both really well rounded. I think Evans has faster hands, and if he's learned not to take time off in the middle of rounds he should win.

And a lot of guys get outworked by Tito. I always thought Tito was overrated, but I have to admit, he works his ass off. And, I liked him as a coach on Ultimate Fighter.

You are absolutely right. People love to bash Tito, but he is great at what he does. Nobody has better cardio then him, and he is a GnP specialist. He looked pathetic in his fights with Liddell but that is because Liddell is exactly the type of fighter that will give Tito fits because he's almost impossible to take down and has an incredible reach with those long gorilla arms. Tito has T-Rex arms, so what is he supposed to do with Chuck? Other then get his ass kicked haha.

[PhishHead]

Yea i think the Bisping/Evans fight will be good but definitely not a main event. The Shrek thing kind of messed up everything up cause the main event was supposed to be Sean v BJ which would have been good, even though Sean is the worse freaking fighter cause all he does is lay on you and nothing else barely throws elbows or punches once he has you down so freaking boring.

The Karo fight will be good because he is a good fighter and fun to watch, i wish it was Karo v Fitch for #1 contender for after the serra/hughes fight, that would be a good match to watch, or Karo v GSP.

[MM2]

Do you guys think there is any way that Couture takes the Big Nog fight that Dana White offered him for UFC 81?

I'd like to see him take the fight and hopefully win, which is not gimme because Big Nog is tough, then be able to get out of the last fight on his contract. As it stands now there's no way he gets out of his contract because it has 2 fights on it. If he can get out of the last fight on his contract or honor it somehow we can then see.......

Fedor/Couture in late 08.

I know...never gonna happen :down:

[PhishHead]

Do you guys think there is any way that Couture takes the Big Nog fight that Dana White offered him for UFC 81?

I'd like to see him take the fight and hopefully win, which is not gimme because Big Nog is tough, then be able to get out of the last fight on his contract. As it stands now there's no way he gets out of his contract because it has 2 fights on it. If he can get out of the last fight on his contract or honor it somehow we can then see.......

Fedor/Couture in late 08.

I know...never gonna happen :down:

i think couture will stand by his position that the contract expires at the end of 18 months or whatever it was and he will take it to court otherwise.

[MM2]

Yea i think the Bisping/Evans fight will be good but definitely not a main event. The Shrek thing kind of messed up everything up cause the main event was supposed to be Sean v BJ which would have been good, even though Sean is the worse freaking fighter cause all he does is lay on you and nothing else barely throws elbows or punches once he has you down so freaking boring.

The Karo fight will be good because he is a good fighter and fun to watch, i wish it was Karo v Fitch for #1 contender for after the serra/hughes fight, that would be a good match to watch, or Karo v GSP.

Yeah, I wanted to see the Penn/Sherk fight. But I think the Penn/Stevenson fight will be good too. I'm not sure if Stevenson is ready for Penn, but he's damn good and will be a real test for him. If Penn doesn't have his cardio up to par like in the GSP and Hughes fights, Stevenson might be able to outlast him. Its a title fight so it should be 5 rounds right?

[MM2]

i think couture will stand by his position that the contract expires at the end of 18 months or whatever it was and he will take it to court otherwise.

Yeah, that's what I don't want to hear!

[PhishHead]

Yeah, I wanted to see the Penn/Sherk fight. But I think the Penn/Stevenson fight will be good too. I'm not sure if Stevenson is ready for Penn, but he's damn good and will be a real test for him. If Penn doesn't have his cardio up to par like in the GSP and Hughes fights, Stevenson might be able to outlast him. Its a title fight so it should be 5 rounds right?

it is an interim title fight because sherk is not losing the belt Dana has stated so I am curious if they will make it a 5 round fight or 3 round.

If its 5 rounds i think it favors Joe because he does have pretty good cardio, and penn really doesnt. I mean Penn's biggest criticism has always been his heart and cardio, i mean remember this is a guy who is a multi millionaire WITHOUT ufc so sometimes you wonder if he really cares if he wins or loses, when he is at his best no one compares to him when he is lackadaisical though he is just average.

[PhishHead]

well the 185lb division just got beefed up a little bit.

Evan Tanner signed a 4 fight deal with UFC, now he isn't the greatest fighter but always puts on a great fight no matter who he is fighting and definitely has knockout power.

supposedly Loiseau is trying to sign a contract with UFC as well. If anderson silva has the best knees, Loiseau has the most dangerous and vicious elbows. Loiseau is a 185lb but could definitely go down to 170 and dominate there just like Swick plans to do.

[Ritalin]

Why isn't Sherk losing the belt? I didn't hear this. Is it because Franca was on the juice too?

Sherk is the most boring fighter ever.

Speaking of which, did you guys catch the fight on the Ultimate Fighter on Wednesday? First, I thought that farmboy tapped out in the first round. I'm sure I saw it. I have it on tivo and I looked at it again, and he tapped for sure.

Second, that's just the kind of fight I can't stand. A guy can't just lay on top and stay there and not improve his position. They have to stand it up sooner. The problem with these wrestlers is that they're great at staying on top, but don't have the skills to do anything much once they get that position.

[MM2]

Why isn't Sherk losing the belt? I didn't hear this. Is it because Franca was on the juice too?

Sherk is the most boring fighter ever.

Speaking of which, did you guys catch the fight on the Ultimate Fighter on Wednesday? First, I thought that farmboy tapped out in the first round. I'm sure I saw it. I have it on tivo and I looked at it again, and he tapped for sure.

Second, that's just the kind of fight I can't stand. A guy can't just lay on top and stay there and not improve his position. They have to stand it up sooner. The problem with these wrestlers is that they're great at staying on top, but don't have the skills to do anything much once they get that position.

Since Sherk is appealing the 'roid test, Dana White isnt going to strip him of the belt. So I guess if he finally gets found guilty his title will be stripped, but it doesn't matter, he'll fight the winner of Penn/Stevenson.

[MM2]

well the 185lb division just got beefed up a little bit.

Evan Tanner signed a 4 fight deal with UFC, now he isn't the greatest fighter but always puts on a great fight no matter who he is fighting and definitely has knockout power.

supposedly Loiseau is trying to sign a contract with UFC as well. If anderson silva has the best knees, Loiseau has the most dangerous and vicious elbows. Loiseau is a 185lb but could definitely go down to 170 and dominate there just like Swick plans to do.

Sorry but its hard to get excited about Tanner. Who I could get excited about is Robbie Lawler, he's no match for Anderson Silva, but he's an exciting fighter and he's very young. Tanner is so old.

I thought Loiseau was destined for greatness with those nasty elbows but after he got dominated by Franklin he wasn't the same fighther. In that Swick fight he looked totally lost and scared. I haven't seen any of Loiseau's fights outside the UFC, but if he's got his heart back he can be dangerous.

[MM2]

well the 185lb division just got beefed up a little bit.

Evan Tanner signed a 4 fight deal with UFC, now he isn't the greatest fighter but always puts on a great fight no matter who he is fighting and definitely has knockout power.

supposedly Loiseau is trying to sign a contract with UFC as well. If anderson silva has the best knees, Loiseau has the most dangerous and vicious elbows. Loiseau is a 185lb but could definitely go down to 170 and dominate there just like Swick plans to do.

Also Wanderlei Silva might have something to say about having the best knees. Have you seen that fight with Rampage in Pride? If Rampage has one weakness its not being able to get away from knees....brutal.

[PhishHead]

Why isn't Sherk losing the belt? I didn't hear this. Is it because Franca was on the juice too?

Sherk is the most boring fighter ever.

Speaking of which, did you guys catch the fight on the Ultimate Fighter on Wednesday? First, I thought that farmboy tapped out in the first round. I'm sure I saw it. I have it on tivo and I looked at it again, and he tapped for sure.

Second, that's just the kind of fight I can't stand. A guy can't just lay on top and stay there and not improve his position. They have to stand it up sooner. The problem with these wrestlers is that they're great at staying on top, but don't have the skills to do anything much once they get that position.

Tommy did tap to Warhammer in my opinion but normally the unspoken rule in MMA is you have to tap three times (not tap 3 separate times but tap your hand down 3 times in a row) . Alot of fighters have tapped once and then changed their mind. Also it is kind of hard to see if Tommy was tapping or just tryping to grab warhammers arm better, really is a judgment call. But if he was taping he definitely would have made it known more instead of a small tap.

and the ref definitely should have stood it up sooner.

If you go to ufcjunkie.com they do their usual 10 questions with the loser of the fight, and warhammer is asked about the tap and he says he thought he did but wasnt sure. Warhammer also says that he was walking around at 174 instead of his usual 185 walking around weight, so he most likely lost alot of muscle because he wasnt eaten and was messed up mentally.

[PhishHead]

Sorry but its hard to get excited about Tanner. Who I could get excited about is Robbie Lawler, he's no match for Anderson Silva, but he's an exciting fighter and he's very young. Tanner is so old.

I thought Loiseau was destined for greatness with those nasty elbows but after he got dominated by Franklin he wasn't the same fighther. In that Swick fight he looked totally lost and scared. I haven't seen any of Loiseau's fights outside the UFC, but if he's got his heart back he can be dangerous.

Tanner is old but a good fighter...i have always hated lawler cocky SOB that has a weak jaw with a good puncher.

Loiseau was bad against swick in round 1 and 2 but round 3 he was awesome again, i think the franklin loss messed him up but he will be back I have no doubt.

Also Wanderlei Silva might have something to say about having the best knees. Have you seen that fight with Rampage in Pride? If Rampage has one weakness its not being able to get away from knees....brutal.

To go with your evan argument Wanderlei is past his prime right now and definitely isnt the same since cro-cop knocked his head off. Also he fought way to fast after the cro-cop fight because pride didnt have the medical restrictions that USA has.

EDIT: i had said after the Hendo fight, meant to say cro-cop. Crocop knocked him out in september and he was fighting hendo in february, only 5 months, whereas in USA he would be suspended for 6-8 months to fully recover.

[MM2]

Tanner is old but a good fighter...i have always hated lawler cocky SOB that has a weak jaw with a good puncher.

Loiseau was bad against swick in round 1 and 2 but round 3 he was awesome again, i think the franklin loss messed him up but he will be back I have no doubt.



To go with your evan argument Wanderlei is past his prime right now and definitely isnt the same since cro-cop knocked his head off. Also he fought way to fast after the cro-cop fight because pride didnt have the medical restrictions that USA has.

EDIT: i had said after the Hendo fight, meant to say cro-cop. Crocop knocked him out in september and he was fighting hendo in february, only 5 months, whereas in USA he would be suspended for 6-8 months to fully recover.

Yeah, Wanderlei is past his prime but I think he's got alittle bit of gas in the tank and I think that Liddell fight is going to be great! If he wins, he might get Rampage because Dana can push that fight. Although I know Dana wants to get Forrest in there against Rampage as soon as possible. The light heavyweight division is so crowded. They should create some kind of #1 contender tourney.

[PhishHead]

Yeah, Wanderlei is past his prime but I think he's got alittle bit of gas in the tank and I think that Liddell fight is going to be great! If he wins, he might get Rampage because Dana can push that fight. Although I know Dana wants to get Forrest in there against Rampage as soon as possible. The light heavyweight division is so crowded. They should create some kind of #1 contender tourney.

Forrest definitely not ready for Rampage at all. I think jardine gets a shot before him. They need to have Rua, Griffin, Jardine, Silva, Liddell, Alexander, Hendo, and then sign Sokoudjou, and have a tourney.

Even though Rua lost to griffin he definitely deserves a chance to contend. The problem with a tourney is Rampage is rested way to long and could be rusty.

[Ritalin]

I think Rampage will kill Forrest. Jardine/Rampage is a much better fight.

[MM2]

Forrest definitely not ready for Rampage at all. I think jardine gets a shot before him. They need to have Rua, Griffin, Jardine, Silva, Liddell, Alexander, Hendo, and then sign Sokoudjou, and have a tourney.

Even though Rua lost to griffin he definitely deserves a chance to contend. The problem with a tourney is Rampage is rested way to long and could be rusty.

Forrest isn't ready for Rampage, I agree with you 100%. But you know that Forrest is the UFC's golden boy and they will pimp him hard. Did any of you guys see the Jardine/Bonner fight? Jardine dominated the fight and the judges gave it to Bonner, I wonder why? That decision was way worse then the Hammil/Bisping one.

Jardine embarrassed Forrest, and Jardine beat Liddell, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Forrest in there for the title before Jardine. And what about Huston Alexander? Does he deserve a shot if he wins? He did knock out Jardine. Maybe Huston/Griffin? So many possiblities in the light heavyweight division. If Tito signs soon he'll throw his big head in there too.

I heard rumors of Evans/Bisping winner getting Rampage. They definitely don't deserve a title shot.

Shogun will be back, but I think he's going to have to get in line and win a couple fights.

[PhishHead]

Forrest isn't ready for Rampage, I agree with you 100%. But you know that Forrest is the UFC's golden boy and they will pimp him hard. Did any of you guys see the Jardine/Bonner fight? Jardine dominated the fight and the judges gave it to Bonner, I wonder why? That decision was way worse then the Hammil/Bisping one.

Jardine embarrassed Forrest, and Jardine beat Liddell, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Forrest in there for the title before Jardine. And what about Huston Alexander? Does he deserve a shot if he wins? He did knock out Jardine. Maybe Huston/Griffin? So many possiblities in the light heavyweight division. If Tito signs soon he'll throw his big head in there too.

I heard rumors of Evans/Bisping winner getting Rampage. They definitely don't deserve a title shot.

Shogun will be back, but I think he's going to have to get in line and win a couple fights.

ive heard rumors that after this fight, Bisping wants to move down to 185. Could be a great move if he could actually cut that much weight.

LHW division is so stacked its crazy. I dont even know who deserves the title shot

[MM2]

ive heard rumors that after this fight, Bisping wants to move down to 185. Could be a great move if he could actually cut that much weight.

LHW division is so stacked its crazy. I dont even know who deserves the title shot

I think that would be a great move for Bisping, I think he'll most likely lose to Evans. He looks like he could cut to 185, he does look like a slim 205 though. He doesn't really have a chance at 205, but he also doesn't have a chance against Silva haha. But I think he could be a top 185 contender at least.

[MM2]

<img src="http://mmajunkie.com/images/tanner-axe.jpg" width="380" height="280">

Evan Tanner haha.

[MM2]

I caught the EliteXC MMA fights on Showtime last night. They have some pretty good fighters and a very interesting guy in Kimbo Slice. Did anyone else watch this? They put on a pretty good show, its like professional wrestling meets MMA.

As for the fights, Nick Diaz looked bad versus KJ Noons. Noons stopped just about every take down attempt by Diaz and the fight was stopped between the first and second rounds because Noons had opened up cuts over both Nick Diaz's eyes and his nose, his face looked like hamburger.

The Kimbo Slice fight was pathetic. I bought into the experience angle and thought this Bo Cantrell guy could put up a fight. The fight lasted 19 seconds. Kimbo caught him with a uppercut to the chest it looked like and then a forearm to the side of the head and Cantrell went to the mat and tapped. He actually tapped! I have never seen that before in my life. Kimbo looks scary out there.

Jake Sheilds is probably their best fighter, and he wants to fight GSP. He's not ready for that, in a couple years you might see him in the UFC though.

Oh lastly, Bill Goldberg does color commentary for the fights. I have no clue as to why. lol

[Fallon]

Brock tapped out 90 seconds into the first round.


haha!

[PhishHead]

Brock tapped out 90 seconds into the first round.


haha!

Yes but up until that point he was dominating.

The fight was stopped at first for a point deduction against Brock which was a little ridiculous considering it was 2 punches and no warnings whatsoever which is unusual for MMA.

The fight showed that even though brock got submitted easily that once he learns sub defense better he will be a force to be reckon with. He showed good power and is quite explosive. It will be interesting to see what happens with him in 2 years.

[walking joint]

Yes but up until that point he was dominating.

The fight was stopped at first for a point deduction against Brock which was a little ridiculous considering it was 2 punches and no warnings whatsoever which is unusual for MMA.

The fight showed that even though brock got submitted easily that once he learns sub defense better he will be a force to be reckon with. He showed good power and is quite explosive. It will be interesting to see what happens with him in 2 years.

agree 100%. he really did dominate up until that point, but a lack of experience cost him big. if he can learn leg defenses he will be a huge force in UFC. and i thought the stoppage and deduction of point may have cost him the fight. he was in great position and just pounding Miz. he will be back and i see good things. funny how the crowd booed him during his intro and post fight interview, but he was all class about the loss and they kind of turned.

[PhishHead]

agree 100%. he really did dominate up until that point, but a lack of experience cost him big. if he can learn leg defenses he will be a huge force in UFC. and i thought the stoppage and deduction of point may have cost him the fight. he was in great position and just pounding Miz. he will be back and i see good things. funny how the crowd booed him during his intro and post fight interview, but he was all class about the loss and they kind of turned.

i thought he was very classy and did a really good job. I see good things for him.

I never thought Lesnar would win I figured Mir would have gotten an RNC or armbar. He tried the armbar but Lesnar is such a freak he powered out of it.

[ralphbxny]

How long till he is in the world of the Predetermined again!

[Ritalin]

I didn't buy the fights last night. Usually they start at 11 but they started at 10 last night so I was already an hour late.

Plus, the price jumped up to 45 bucks. That just wasn't a 45 dollar card, especially so soon after the last PPV, which was only 3 weeks ago.

Sounds like they were decent fights, though. Nogera taps Silva, that's pretty huge.

[Fallon]

I just watched it, Brock was doing pretty good with the punching. He just needs to be more aware of where his body is.

[cougarjake13]

I just watched it, Brock was doing pretty good with the punching. He just needs to be more aware of where his body is.

do they replay the fights a week later on free tv like they do with boxing ???

[MM2]

Yes but up until that point he was dominating.

The fight was stopped at first for a point deduction against Brock which was a little ridiculous considering it was 2 punches and no warnings whatsoever which is unusual for MMA.

The fight showed that even though brock got submitted easily that once he learns sub defense better he will be a force to be reckon with. He showed good power and is quite explosive. It will be interesting to see what happens with him in 2 years.

Yeah, I was impressed with how explosive Brock's shots were, he easily took Mir down, and Mir was ready for his going for the shots but Brock was just too quick. I think if it had been anyone other then a stud BJJ guy like Mir he powers out of that leg lock. He powered out of the two arm bar attempts with ease. He needs to show alittle more patience but I'm sure having been training for so long he was chomping at the bit to get in there and fight.

I think Mazagatti thought Mir was out when he stepped in and realized that Mir wasn't out, he was definitely hurt but still aware of what was going on. Normally you'd see a warning, not a point deduciton and standing them up, that was bizarre.

Brock impressed for 80 of the 90 seconds, he's gonna be a force in a year or so.

I see his next fight being Eddie Sanchez. Sanchez is a stand up fighter, so Brock will take him down and GnP him to death. Just think Frank Mir is one of the bigger HW figthers in the UFC and Brock just took him down with ease. He's such a freak, just needs alot more work on his sub defense.

[Fallon]

do they replay the fights a week later on free tv like they do with boxing ???
I got it using bit torrent.

[Mark_in_FL]

If not its worth your 2 min to check it out.


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2O9ONUSXVCw&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2O9ONUSXVCw&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

He put up more of a fight than I thought he would.

[EddieMoscone]

It was an awesome minute and a half. UFC's mistake to put him in there with a BJJ black belt his first fight. Not saying they should have put him in with a tomato can, but seriously. Either way, both fighters came off looking good and this can lead to some good match-ups down the road.