2009 Season - Defending WS Champion Philadelphia Phillies Thread

[K.C.]

Uncle Charlie resigned to a two year extension...comments?


Also, I figured I'd start this with my breakdown of how the roster shapes up this offseason already. The only guy I expect to get a long-term extension of the guys that the club controls their salary on, or are arbitration eligible, is Ryan Howard. All club controlled and arbitration salaries have been denoted and are estimated by me.

^ - denotes club controlled contract
* - denotes arbitration eligible

25 Man Roster

C - Carlos Ruiz^($400,000)
1B - Ryan Howard^ ($9,000,000)
2B - Chase Utley ($7,500,000)
3B -
SS - Jimmy Rollins ($7,000,000)
LF - Pat Burrell ($14,000,000)
CF - Shane Victorino^ ($440,000)
RF - Jayson Werth* ($1,500,000)

SP - Cole Hamels^ ($440,000)
SP - Brett Myers ($8,500,000)
SP - Kyle Kendrick^ ($400,000)
SP - Jamie Moyer ($3,500,000)
SP -

Bench:
3B/1B - Wes Helms ($2,150,000)
3B/OF - Greg Dobbs^ ($400,000)
C/3B/1B - Chris Coste^ ($400,000)
OF - Michael Bourn^ ($400,000)



LR - Adam Eaton ($7,635,000)
LR - Geoff Geary* ($1,000,000)
MR - Ryan Madson* ($1,600,000)
MR - Julio Mateo+ ($1,500,000)
MR -
SU - Tom Gordon ($5,500,000)
CL -


Buyouts:
C - Rod Barajas ($500,000)
IF - Abraham Nunez ($175,000)

Etc. money off the books
1B - Jim Thome ($7,000,000)

Free Agents
SP - Freddy An. Garcia ($10,000,000)
SP - Jon Lieber ($7,500,000)
CF - Aaron Rowand ($4,350,000)
SP - Kyle Lohse ($4,200,000)
2B - Tadahito Iguchi ($3,250,000)
RP - Jose Mesa ($2,500,000)
RP - Antonio Alfonseca ($700,000)
RP - J.C. Romero ($1,600,000)

2007 Opening Day Payroll - $89,428,213
2008 on the books - $73,940,000


Free Agent Targets?
3B - Mike Lowell (2007- $9,000,000)
3B - Abraham O. Nunez (2007 - $1,925,000)
OF - Aaron Rowand (2007 - $4,350,000)
SP - Randy Wolf (2007 - $7,500,000)
SP - Kyle Lohse (2007 - $4,200,000)
SP - Paul Byrd (2007 - $7,000,000 - Indians have a $8MM club option)
SP - Rodrigo Lopez (2007 - $4,325,000)
SP - Josh Fogg (2007 - $3,625,000)
SP - Curt Schilling (2007 - $13,000,000)
SP - Carlos Silva (2007 - $4,000,000)
RP - J.C. Romero (2007 - $1,600,000)
RP - Ray King (2007 - $850,000)
RP - Francisco Cordero (2007 - $5,000,000)
RP - Jorge Julio (2007 - $3,600,000)
RP - Mike Timlin (2007 - $2,800,000)
RP - Kerry Wood (2007 - $1,750,000)

[K.C.]

To comment on it, they're about $16 million under their $89 million to start the season last year.

Realistically, the club probably has to go to the $95 million payroll they had when they opened Citizens Bank Park. If they keep it the same or decrease it, it's a major public relations hit, after gaining so much good will winning the division.

Still, they won't spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets obviously.

So you're looking in the neighborhood of $20-$25 million.

A lot depends on what they do with Brett Myers. Personally, I think if you look at his contract over the next two seasons, it's starter's money, and for the price they're paying him, it's their best bet to get a legitimate #2 starter in their rotation this offseason.

So he SHOULD be moved back into the rotation.

That means they're in the market for a closer. Of the relief pitchers listed, the only two potential closers are Francisco Cordero, who had an excellent year for the Brewers, and Kerry Wood.

Cordero will get Wagner money. 4 years, $45 million with an option. It's worth it to me, but Gillick is notoriously stingy when it comes to giving extra years.

Wood is interesting. He won't get as much money, because he's a question mark health wise, and will really always be. He's got the potential to be a lights out closer or the next Mike Jackson (for those who suffered through the Phils late 90s period).

Rowand and Lowell are the only big name free agent offensive players I expect them to target. Both should get in the neighborhood of the same money per year, but Rowand will get more years.

Realistically, they need to sign one of these two guys. Lowell actually makes more sense on paper, because they can fill Rowand's spot with Victorino.

But Rowand's intangibles may make him the guy to get.

The Phillies also need a left-handed reliever. Resigning Romero is the first priority, but it'll be interesting to see what the market for him is. Ray King is a 'Phillie type' run of the mill left-hander that I just have a hunch they'd target if Romero goes elsewhere. They may also try to fill it in house with Mike Zagurski and Matt Smith, both coming off of injury. Also Fabio Castro is still in the mix.

The starting pitchers are interesting. Most are 4th or 5th types, with two exceptions in Schilling and Wolf. The Phils would only bring in Schilling if they can get him at a discount. If Schilling's price stays the same, or goes up, they won't target him. Wolf is interesting in that Gillick likes starters who's injury history is known within the organization. Wolf came up the Phillies farm system, and didn't really leave on bad terms, and the Dodgers don't look like they'll bring him back.

Bottom line...if they have $20-$25 million to spend, and five roster spots to fill (three important roles), it should breakdown

3B or OF - $10MM-$12MM
5th SP - $4MM-6MM
Closer - $10 MM

And fill the other RP and bench spot from within with a low-money controlled contract.

At worst, they go a little bit over budget to do all that. It should be doable, though.

[Earlshog]

You think Myers is out of the Pen? Wasn't that Manuels idea?

[K.C.]

You think Myers is out of the Pen? Wasn't that Manuels idea?

I just don't know what else they could do.

Unless you sign Schilling, or make a trade for someone like Dontrelle Willis, you need starting pitching.

The market sucks. It's filled with 4s and 5s. Myers has the ability to fill that role, and it'd be a little bit easier to secure a closer than a good starting pitcher at this point.


That said, every indication seems to be that Myers will stay in the pen, but it just seems like a no-win situation unless they have something up their sleeve like a Willis trade.

And to get Willis I think would probably cost you Bourn and Carrasco which are two of your better prospects (and Carrasco is easily the Phils best pitching prospect right now.)

[cougarjake13]

hey maybe you'll get mariano and move myers back to the rotation


hell i'd dump wagner to get rivera

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Bring Back Steve Jeltz and Von Hayes

those Bats should help bring you the World Series

Now were talking Sports

:king:

[cougarjake13]

how bout juan samuel ??

[Earlshog]

What ever happened to Rick Shu?

The Phillies moved the greatest third baseman of all time Michael Jack Schmidt to first for this future star.

I expect big things from this kid

Forget Wes Helms If the shu fits wear it.... now were talking sports!!!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

What ever happened to Rick Shu?

The Phillies moved the greatest third baseman of all time Michael Jack Schmidt to first for this future star.

I expect big things from this kid

Forget Wes Helms If the shu fits wear it.... now were talking sports!!!

:lol: Schu was the Heir Apparent for Schmidt

You Guys Need Steve "Bedrock" Bedrosian to close out games in 2008

Also Greg Gross and Luis Aguayo could help

now we're talking the sports

:king:

[PigShitIrish]

Here's a question for you K.C.:
Out of the Phillies free agents, who, if any, would you make a priority to re-sign?

[K.C.]

Here's a question for you K.C.:
Out of the Phillies free agents, who, if any, would you make a priority to re-sign?

Of their specific ones, the only two I'd even entertain resigning are Rowand and Romero.

If what it takes to get Rowand is between $10-12 millon per year, I'd give it to him. Above that, it's tough, especially when you can kind of fill that position from within.

The one thing signing Rowand does, is allows you to trade Bourn, and if you can package Bourn, and the Phils top two minor leaguers (Adrian Cardenas, a very good middle infielder who will never see the light of day because he's blocked by Utley and Rollins, and Carrasco, a right-handed starter with very good upside), that may be enough to swing a deal for someone like Dontrelle Willis.

In terms of Romero, you have to see what he gets. He had such a good year, that I could see him getting a much bigger than expected contract. If you can get him at a valuable price, I'd ink him back.

Back to Rowand, though...one problem with it is that the Mets may drive up the price. Both them and the Nationals (oddly enough) are rumored to be looking to drop a ton of money on him.

[K.C.]

:lol: Schu was the Heir Apparent for Schmidt

You Guys Need Steve "Bedrock" Bedrosian to close out games in 2008

Also Greg Gross and Luis Aguayo could help

now we're talking the sports

:king:

We need to sign Danny Tartabull so he can only play three games in a season, again.

He was Albert Belle before Albert Belle was cool.

[K.C.]

Stan Hockman of the Philadelphia Daily News and Howard Eskin of 610 WIP are reporting that the Phillies ownership are going to sell within the next two years.

The Phillies have denied the report.

Things are getting interesting...

[scottinnj]

Here's a question for you K.C.:
Out of the Phillies free agents, who, if any, would you make a priority to re-sign?


Hands down Tadahito Iguchi and Aaron Rowand. I'd give Lieber up if his agent is a pain in the ass. He's not worth much more then what he's getting now.

And if we don't pour barrels of cash on our starting lineup, I'll puke.

[scottinnj]

Stan Hockman of the Philadelphia Daily News and Howard Eskin of 610 WIP are reporting that the Phillies ownership are going to sell within the next two years.
YAAAY!

The Phillies have denied the report.

Of course they did. But if Eskin is reporting it, there may be some credibility to it.
Hopefully if it's true, part of the deal is the fans get to have Pat Gillick on the mound so we can pelt him with D cell batteries.
Things are getting interesting...
Yep, it feels like the fall of 1979, only without the leisure suits.

[Earlshog]

hey maybe you'll get mariano and move myers back to the rotation


hell i'd dump wagner to get rivera

I'd dump Wagner for Mark Leiter at this point

[Earlshog]

We need to sign Danny Tartabull so he can only play three games in a season, again.

He was Albert Belle before Albert Belle was cool.

haha... that piece of shit fouled a ball off his foot and they said he was day to day... he never played again...

Over the past 25 years I don't think another team has acquired more people that were past there prime...

Lance Parish and Dale Murphy were my favs.

[K.C.]

I'd dump Wagner for Mark Leiter at this point

Not Chad Ogea?

[K.C.]

Over the past 25 years I don't think another team has acquired more people that were past there prime...


I don't know...there may be some Orioles fans reading this that would dispute that.

[Earlshog]

I don't know...there may be some Orioles fans reading this that would dispute that.


Dale Sveum
Dale Murphy
Don Robinson
Kent Tequlve
Jose DeLeon
Tommy Herr
Dickie Thon
Dwayne Murphy
Wally Backman
Danny Cox
Dave LaPoint
Joe Morgan
Tony Perez
Jerry Kooseman
Lance Parrish
Mike Easler
Phil Bradley
Eric Milton
Ron Gant
Andy Ashby
Brian Hunter
Omar Daal
David Bell
Turk Wendell
Norm Charlton
Jim DeShaises
Todd Zeil
Beinto Santaigo
Danny Tartabull
Mark Portugal
Danny Jackson
Bobby Thigpen
Billy Hatcher
Frenaond Valenzuela
Andy Van Slyke
El Sid

etc
etc
etc

[K.C.]

Honestly, even though they'll never ever never ever never EVER do it, the smartest business move the Phillies could make is sign A-Rod.

Let's say he gets $35 million a year. The Phillies could fill out the rest of their roster and end up with about a $130 million payroll.

That's $35 million more than their normal payroll.

For that extra $35 million you would most likely:
-allow you to raise ticket prices without fans bitching because it's for a reason.
-sell out every home game, which would also spike concession sales
-dramatically increase merchandise sales
-significantly increase both the television and radio contracts when they are renegotiated.
-significantly increase advertising revenue
-increase the number of national television payouts.
-increase the team's chances of making the playoffs and receiving the extra advertising/media/gate money that comes with that.

Now, you're telling me they can't recoup that money, and WAY more from all that? Obviously, it's a risk if the team tanks and they get stuck paying it out, but what are the chances of the team, with this core, PLUS A-Rod tanking?

If they made that move, the Phillies would own the city, and as much money as they already make, they'd make so much more.


Plus, for an ownership loooking to sell, having the most marketable star in sports in one of the largest markets in sports would HAVE to raise the sale price as well.


I can't understand why they show no interest.

[Snoogans]

dont even get yourselves excited. If ARod is leaving NY it's mainly cause of the press and fan treatment. He ISN'T goin to Philly

[Kevin]

Arod would immediately blow out both his knees in the 1st spring training game and have to retire.. Getting the Phils on the hook for 350mil dollars for nothing

[Freakshow]

Seems to me Philly is more than capable of losing in the first round of the playoffs already. Why would they need ARod?

[Earlshog]

Arod would immediately blow out both his knees in the 1st spring training game and have to retire.. Getting the Phils on the hook for 350mil dollars for nothing

I assume you were making a vet turf joke, if it were 87 it would have been hysterical, we would all be laughing along...


if you were serious if he retired then he wouldn't get anything , oh and they have insurance that pays in instances such as these

[Earlshog]

dont even get yourselves excited. If ARod is leaving NY it's mainly cause of the press and fan treatment. He ISN'T goin to Philly

If he leaves its over money... If the Phillies offered a nickel more then the next team he would be in Philly.

The Phillies don't have the money so it is moot...

[K.C.]

dont even get yourselves excited. If ARod is leaving NY it's mainly cause of the press and fan treatment. He ISN'T goin to Philly

You obviously didn't read the first sentence of that post. I can't make it anymore clearer then "they will never ever never ever never ever do this." Trust me, i'd be floored if the Phillies management even said they were considering the possibility.

But, A-Rod is leaving for money, plain and simple. He can get at least $10 million more per year. Why the hell wouldn't he leave if the Yanks won't ante up?

[K.C.]

Here's a modest proposal:

-Trade Michael Bourn and Carlos Carrasco to the Rockies for Garrett Atkins (Atkins will be traded...Ian Stewart is too good a 3B prospect for the Rockies to keep in the minor anymore)
-Offer Mariano Rivera 3 yrs/ $39 mil (it's overpaying in years and dollars, but you have to out bid the Yankees)
-Offer Curt Schilling 2 yrs/ $27 mil with an option for a third.

And all of a sudden you're sitting on

1. SS Jimmy Rollins
2. CF - Shane Victorino
3. 2B - Chase Utley
4. 1B - Ryan Howard
5. LF - Pat Burrell
6. 3B - Garrett Atkins
7. RF - Jayson Werth
8. C - Carlos Ruiz

SP - Cole Hamels
SP - Curt Schilling
SP - Brett Myers
SP - Jamie Moyer
SP - Kyle Kendrick

CL - Mariano Rivera
SU - Tom Gordon
MR - Ryan Madson
MR - Scott Mathieson
MR - Mike Zagurski/Fabio Castro/Matt Smith (who ever comes out of this bunch)
LR - J.D. Durbin
LR - J.A. Happ

And you've got yourself quite a nice team there, and you're within budget.

Now granted, if the Yankees and Sox come back and overbid your overbid, then the Phillies couldn't afford to go much higher than what I laid out for Rivera and Schilling.

But if it works out...that team is stacked.

[Earlshog]

You may be asking for trouble with two guys in the starting rotaion in there 40's. Look at what happened to the Mets this year.

[cougarjake13]

Here's a modest proposal:

-Trade Michael Bourn and Carlos Carrasco to the Rockies for Garrett Atkins (Atkins will be traded...Ian Stewart is too good a 3B prospect for the Rockies to keep in the minor anymore)
-Offer Mariano Rivera 3 yrs/ $39 mil (it's overpaying in years and dollars, but you have to out bid the Yankees)
-Offer Curt Schilling 2 yrs/ $27 mil with an option for a third.

And all of a sudden you're sitting on

1. SS Jimmy Rollins
2. CF - Shane Victorino
3. 2B - Chase Utley
4. 1B - Ryan Howard
5. LF - Pat Burrell
6. 3B - Garrett Atkins
7. RF - Jayson Werth
8. C - Carlos Ruiz

SP - Cole Hamels
SP - Curt Schilling
SP - Brett Myers
SP - Jamie Moyer
SP - Kyle Kendrick

CL - Mariano Rivera
SU - Tom Gordon
MR - Ryan Madson
MR - Scott Mathieson
MR - Mike Zagurski/Fabio Castro/Matt Smith (who ever comes out of this bunch)
LR - J.D. Durbin
LR - J.A. Happ

And you've got yourself quite a nice team there, and you're within budget.

Now granted, if the Yankees and Sox come back and overbid your overbid, then the Phillies couldn't afford to go much higher than what I laid out for Rivera and Schilling.

But if it works out...that team is stacked.


and the phillies would still find a way to start 10 games or more under .500 and make a mad dash to make the postseason

but i'd hate to face that team

[K.C.]

and the phillies would still find a way to start 10 games or more under .500 and make a mad dash to make the postseason

but i'd hate to face that team

Oh, definitely...part of the being a Phillies fan is accepting the realization that, in football terms, if your picking the Phillies to win it's:

Phillies (-April) over the Mets, Braves, Nats, Marlins

and we suck at covering that spread, usually.


Something tells me though, that, especially if the Red Sox win another World Series, the Yankees may lose their minds and over pay by a lot to keep Rivera. But as of right now, the Phils are pretty on record in stating their interest for him.

I don't think Schilling is back in Boston either way...the wild card there will be whether the Phillies ownership still harbors all the hate they had for him before he left Philadelphia the first time. But Schill would come back in a second if the money's right.

And as far as two 40+ starters, Schilling moving to the NL would prolong his career a couple years...and Moyer is nothing more then a 5th starter anyway, and he was the only guy in that rotation there from start to finish...so I'm not too worried about it if they pull it off.


The bottom line, though, is that if their free agent moves consist of:
-overpaying Mike Lowell with a four year contract
-signing one out of Lohse, Carlos Silva, and some other average pitcher who'll get $10 mil in this market

I'll be pissed.

[cougarjake13]

Oh, definitely...part of the being a Phillies fan is accepting the realization that, in football terms, if your picking the Phillies to win it's:

Phillies (-April) over the Mets, Braves, Nats, Marlins

and we suck at covering that spread, usually.


Something tells me though, that, especially if the Red Sox win another World Series, the Yankees may lose their minds and over pay by a lot to keep Rivera. But as of right now, the Phils are pretty on record in stating their interest for him.

I don't think Schilling is back in Boston either way...the wild card there will be whether the Phillies ownership still harbors all the hate they had for him before he left Philadelphia the first time. But Schill would come back in a second if the money's right.

And as far as two 40+ starters, Schilling moving to the NL would prolong his career a couple years...and Moyer is nothing more then a 5th starter anyway, and he was the only guy in that rotation there from start to finish...so I'm not too worried about it if they pull it off.


The bottom line, though, is that if their free agent moves consist of:
-overpaying Mike Lowell with a four year contract
-signing one out of Lohse, Carlos Silva, and some other average pitcher who'll get $10 mil in this market

I'll be pissed.



whats sad is that someone will overpay for lowell and he wont even come close to the production he had this year with all that protection in the sawx lineup

as for schilling he said he'd actually be willing to come to the d rays and mentor the young staff but i doubt the rays will pony up that much money for a 40 yr old pitcher

[Kris10]

Goodbye Rowand! Anyone else see what he is looking for???

"It has been reported that Rowand is seeking a six-year deal worth $85 million, a price the Phillies can't afford. Though general manager Pat Gillick said there's money in the budget to retain Rowand and still address pitching, the team is likely willing to be in the three-year, $30-33 million range that Eric Byrnes received from Arizona this season." www.phillies.com

I loved having him but he is as good as gone. Why the hell can't we just get rid of Burrell and keep Rowand!!!??? I can't stomach Burrell!

[cougarjake13]

Goodbye Rowand! Anyone else see what he is looking for???

"It has been reported that Rowand is seeking a six-year deal worth $85 million, a price the Phillies can't afford. Though general manager Pat Gillick said there's money in the budget to retain Rowand and still address pitching, the team is likely willing to be in the three-year, $30-33 million range that Eric Byrnes received from Arizona this season." www.phillies.com

I loved having him but he is as good as gone. Why the hell can't we just get rid of Burrell and keep Rowand!!!??? I can't stomach Burrell!

b/c that would make too much sense

[cougarjake13]

phillies trade for brad lidge (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7421230)

[BoondockSaint]

phillies trade for brad lidge (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7421230)



Damn. That should worry the Mets.

[cougarjake13]

Damn. That should worry the Mets.

only if they plan on moving back all the fences in every major league ballpark

[HBox]

Damn. That should worry the Mets.

The last time the Phillies traded for a Houston closer the Mets ended up with him 2 years later. So its not all bad.

[BoondockSaint]

It's not just them getting a closer it let's them put Meyers back in the rotation.

[K.C.]

It's not just them getting a closer it let's them put Meyers back in the rotation.

Not necessarily sure about that...but I'll get to it in a minute.

Here's the full trade.

Phils get:
RP - Brad Lidge
IF - Eric Bruntlett

Astros get:
OF - Michael Bourn
RP - Geoff Geary
3B - Mike Costanzo (AAA)


It's a lot for the Phillies to give up, but I like the move. Lidge allows them to do some nice things. As stated, he could become the closer, which allows them to move Myers back to the rotation. Or, they could move Lidge to the setup roll and give the Phillies a very strong bullpen of Myers, Lidge, Gordon, Romero (Gillick said he expects to resign him before Tuesday), and Madson.

Bruntlett will fill the Nunez role from last season, as it looks like Dobbs and Helms will platoon at 3B with Bruntlett playing defense in the late innings. He's solid defensively and a bit better at the plate then Nunez.

It makes sense for the Astros, because Ed Wade drafted all three of the guys he's getting back. I like Bourn, and I think he's going to be a productive outfielder. His defense alone will help any team, as will his speed.

Geary is a journeyman, with injury issues...seems like a throw in to me.

Costanzo's the ultimate lynchpin of this. He's still at least a year away. He looked great in AA this year, but terrible in the Arizona Fall League. He projects as an average to above-average 3B. If he turns out to be an everyday 3B, it hurts, but it won't be until at least '09, if ever.

All in all...solid move.

[K.C.]

Amaro confrimed they'll use Lidge as the closer.

So the 2008 Phils currently project:

1. Jimmy Rollins SS
2. Shane Victorino CF
3. Chase Utley 2B
4. Ryan Howard 1B
5. Pat Burrell LF
6. Jayson Werth RF
7. Greg Dobbs/Wes Helms/Eric Bruntlett 3B
8. Carlos Ruiz C

SP - Cole Hamels
SP - Brett Myers
SP -
SP - Kyle Kendrick
SP - Jamie Moyer

CL - Brad Lidge
SU - Tom Gordon
MR - Ryan Madson
MR -
MR -
LR - J.D. Durbin
LR - Adam Eaton


From what it sounds like, they're looking to resign Romero and Alfonseca to round out the bullpen.

As for the other starter, I've heard everything from Hiroki Kuroda, the top Japanese pitcher on the market, to bringing back Lieber or Randy Wolf.

[K.C.]

Phils close to re-signing Romero
By Todd Zolecki

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

The Phillies bolstered their bullpen and rotation yesterday when they acquired Brad Lidge from the Houston Astros.
Lidge immediately became the Phillies' closer, which returned Brett Myers to the rotation.

But the Phillies aren't finished yet. The Phillies seem close to finalizing a multiyear contract with lefthanded relief pitcher J.C. Romero. There are indications that a deal could be announced as early as today.

Romero went 1-2 with a 1.24 ERA in 51 appearances last season for the Phillies, who signed him to a minor-league contract after the Boston Red Sox released him.


Lidge, Gordon, Romero, Madson....I can definitely live with that back of the bullpen.

You also have to consider the fact that Scott Mathieson, who was their best pitching prospect before his injury, is back, and from the sound of things could be transitioned into a middle relief role as well.

My wishlist is down to:
-One more SP (it can be a reclaimation project like Wolf or Lieber, too...not expecting much, just an upgrade over Eaton).
-Left-handed OF with some pop (to platoon a little with Werth..again, shouldn't be expensive, just looking for a bench guy, similar to Dellucci a couple years ago).



As far as the starters go, when I say reclaimation project, I mean a guy you can bring in at a low base salary to compete with Adam Eaton, and Carlos Carrasco for the 5th starter job.

These are the guy I'd take a look at:

Matt Clement - He reportedly was topping out at 87 MPH during his rehab, which will make teams a little wary, but Clement was a pretty good pitcher before his injury. He'll get a very low base salary with incentive clauses for the '08 season from some team, because you're taking the chance that he's a smart enough pitcher to still be effective without his great fastball. The cost vs. the potential, and the Phillies' need says he's worth a look.

Jon Lieber - Lieber is a very smart pitcher, and his injury was to his ankle, not his arm, so he should have close to the same stuff he had when he went down. The Phillies know his history since they've had him a while. I think he can still be very effective, and he's always been a very economical pitcher with his pitches. His numbers haven't been great the last two seasons, but shifting him back and forth from the bullpen to the rotation obviously messed with his head. Guarantee him that if he wins the job, he'll start, or you'll trade/cut him if he doesn't win it, and he'll come back.

Randy Wolf - Everyone remembers Wolfy. He's got great movement on his fastball, and was effective returning from Tommy John surgery. Still, he got hurt again last season, and now has an injury-risk label which will make him another guy who will get a low base salary with incentive clauses. The Phillies know his history and how to use him. He tops out between 95-100 pitches, and around 6 innings. Anything above that, he's horrendous. But in that window he's great. That's acceptable for a 5th starter.

Kerry Wood - The ultimate injury risk, and that's an understatement, but it's not like you'd have to give up a lot of dollars to get him this time, and the reward might be worth it. Wood was very effective in middle relief last season, but there's been some murmurings as of late that he may want to try starting again. A lot of teams will pursue Wood for middle relief, but if you offer him a chance to start, you might be able to snag him. You're not putting yourself in a position where a) you're dependent on him (you've got Carrasco and Eaton), b) you're committing a ton of money to him, so why not?

Livan Hernandez - More than anything, Livan needs a weight clause like Schilling...he's in horrendous shape, and has had two bad years becaust of it, but Hernandez was a quality innings guy for many years, and is still young enough (33) where he can round back into form. Only thing that scares me is his high WHIP combined with Citizens Bank Park, but he could develop back into a solid dependable option at a low cost.

John Thomson - Thomson's battled injuries for the last three years actually. Before that he was a very prominent force in the Braves rotation winning 14 games. You're not going to have to pay this guy anything, so why not make him a Spring Training invitee, see if he can make the rotation over Eaton or Carrasco...nothing to really lose.

Steve Trachsel - He's another guy who won't get much money, but he has the potential to be similar to Jamie Moyer in what he gives you. He was horrible last season, but he played most of it on a dead Baltimore team. The season before he won 15 games, albeit with a 4.97 ERA with the Mets. In this day and age of baseball, I'd gladly take that out of a 5th starter.

[Kris10]

I LOVE Wolfy!!!! I would love to have him back and I'm 95% convinced he'll be back because he'll be cheap and Philly loves cheap!

I'm excited about Lidge but scared at the same time. He's going to be our new Mitchy-poo. I have to admit, I did adore Mitch Williams.

[K.C.]

I LOVE Wolfy!!!! I would love to have him back and I'm 95% convinced he'll be back because he'll be cheap and Philly loves cheap!

I'm excited about Lidge but scared at the same time. He's going to be our new Mitchy-poo. I have to admit, I did adore Mitch Williams.

Lidge will be fine as long as people temper their expectations a little. He's not Mariano...he's not K-Rod from Anaheim.

He'll most likely be similar to Billy Wagner when he was in Philadelphia. Wagner was a great regular season closer for the Phillies, but struggled in very meaningful, late September games.

Lidge should post similar regualar season numbers...we'll see if he's better than Wagner in regards to how he does in the clutch (The Pujols incident suggests it could be a concern).

I think he'll be a good pickup, though.

I like Randy Wolf a lot too. Of that list I put out, I'd be most interested in Wolf or Lieber. Lieber actually may be the better fit, because I think he's more economical with his pitches, and can still go deep into games, but I'd take Wolf for sentimental reasons, because he's a home grown guy, and played his entire career except for last year with the Phils.


On a side note, Bill Conlin wrote a column today kind of suggesting what I initially did in using Myers as the closer and Lidge as the setup guy. It's an interesting read, but upon further consideration, I agree with the Phillies move to put Myers back in the rotation. He has way more potential as a starter than any free agent on the market, and Lidge could actually be the better closer of the two.

[K.C.]

Phillies ink Romero to three-year pact
11/10/2007 11:46 PM ET
By Anthony DiComo / MLB.com

PHILADELPHIA -- What began as a hopeful experiment has now become a dedicated commitment. The Phillies signed left-handed reliever J.C. Romero to a three-year contract extension on Saturday night, transforming a pitcher who was unemployed just five months prior into a bullpen mainstay.
"J.C. had an outstanding three months for us this year, particularly down the stretch," assistant general manager Ruben Amaro said in a statement. "He was an integral part of our winning the NL East, and we're very happy we could get him signed before he hit the open market."

The deal is worth $12 million, and includes a club option for 2011 that would bring the total value to $16.75 million.

After losing a roster spot with the Red Sox in June, Romero signed a Minor League contract with the Phillies and immediately flourished. The lefty didn't make an appearance in the Minors, but instead went straight to Philadelphia, where he posted a 1.24 ERA in 51 games. Perhaps more impressive -- and certainly just as useful -- he allowed only five hits to left-handed hitters during that span.

There aren't many lefties who can boast that kind of success, which would have made Romero a hot commodity on the free-agent market -- and the Phillies knew it.

"I'm glad I didn't have to go out and test the free-agent market," Romero said in a statement. "I had a great time with the Phillies and really wanted to come back."

The fact that the Phillies had such a hometown advantage in re-signing Romero came more from good timing than anything else. Romero signed with the Red Sox as a free agent prior to last season, and while he didn't completely struggle -- posting a 3.15 ERA -- his 15 walks in 20 innings were enough to make the Red Sox leery. So when the team needed roster space to activate Mike Timlin, Romero's control issues -- along with the emergence of lefty Hideki Okajima -- made him expendable.

Lucky for the Phillies. Romero remained just as wild in Philadelphia, but became so unhittable that the walks rarely hurt. Opposing batters mustered only a .130 average off him after the trade.

Romero was considered one of the top lefty relievers in baseball at the start of the decade, posting a 1.89 ERA with the Twins in 2002. But struggles in subsequent years plagued his value, until an apparent revitalization with the Phillies.

With Romero, the Phillies secured another important piece at the back end of their bullpen. The team traded for new closer Brad Lidge on Wednesday, shifting Brett Myers back into the rotation. But some concern lingers.



Complete coverage >
Geoff Geary, who pitched in more games than any reliever other than Antonio Alfonseca last season, was shipped off to Houston in the trade that landed Lidge. And Alfonseca declared for free agency last month, meaning the Phillies still have plenty of bullpen holes to fill.

That's typical of any year, but coming off a down year, it looms larger. The Phillies ranked just 24th in the Majors in ERA last season with a 4.41 ERA. Even under the assumption that the addition of Lidge will cancel out the subtraction of Myers -- and such an assumption remains a leap of faith -- the Phillies haven't yet done anything to shake last summer's incriminating statistics.

That doesn't mean they won't, of course, and -- even more encouraging -- they may not have to. The Phillies won the NL East even with the division's worst bullpen last season, so there's no reason to think they can't do it again. But the signing of Romero is the first step toward ensuring that they won't need to try.

"I'm excited and looking forward to next season and hopefully we come out and defend our NL East title the way I know we can," Romero said. "The nucleus has remained the same, and we added the right pieces. We need to go out and do what everyone expects us to do, which is win a World Series."

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


It's a nice move. They overpaid a little bit for him, but you have to do that to keep players from reaching the open market...and if he reached the open market, who knows what kind of crazy offer he could have gotten.

Romero isn't as good as he pitched last year, but he's a solid piece in what really is shaping up to be a solid bullpen in Lidge, Gordon, Romero, and Madson.

Still need one more SP, and a left-handed platoon OF.

[sailor]

It's a nice move. They overpaid a little bit for him, but you have to do that to keep players from reaching the open market...and if he reached the open market, who knows what kind of crazy offer he could have gotten.

Romero isn't as good as he pitched last year, but he's a solid piece in what really is shaping up to be a solid bullpen in Lidge, Gordon, Romero, and Madson.

Still need one more SP, and a left-handed platoon OF.

if he would have gotten more on the open market, it's not overpaying.

[K.C.]

Brad Lidge introductory press conference on Comcast right now...sounds like he's pumped.

[cougarjake13]

i may be working for the enemy this spring training

[K.C.]

The latest reports have the Phillies making offers to Hiroki Kuroda and Randy Wolf.

In my opinion, Wolf is probably the more likely of the two, as Kuroda is commanding a lot of bidding and the Phils may have to go over the top to get him. Wolf is a bit more under the radar.


If both of those fall through, their wishlist is as follows (according to MLBTraderumors.com):
-Jon Lieber (definite possiblity...only issue may be he didn't end on good terms with the Phils last season)
-Bartolo Colon (Manuel loves him, but his injury concerns, and declining performance make it an issue. Also, he may command way more than he's actually worth these days)
-Kenny Rogers (not likely, him firing Boras was a precursor to returning to Detroit)
-Livan Hernandez (People have kind of debated whether Livan's decline is related to him just losing his stuff, or not being motivated or in shape. I could see them making a run at him).
-Mark Prior (a very intriguing possibility to me, but ultimately, his issues don't mesh with Gillick's normal critiera in signing pitchers)
-Shawn Chacon (they could get him if they want him, but I don't know why they would)
-Joe Kennedy (not a big fan of Kennedy)
-Brian Fuentes (would have to be a trade, and Fuentes would fill a middle relief role)
-A.J. Burnett (again, a trade, and the Blue Jays would probably ask way too much back for him)


Jayson Stark is also throwing in Matt Clement, Kris Benson, and Mike Wood. In Clement's case, his last injury may have killed his career. Benson is a bad guy to look at, especially for Citizens Bank, and even though Wood is still relatively young, he hasn't been a productive major leaguer.


Kuroda and Wolf are the cream of the crop...I'd take one or the other.


If they don't land a pitcher they could conceivably go back after Aaron Rowand, but Ken Rosenthal has been reporting for weeks that Rowand will get 5 years, and the Phillies are pretty steadfast in saying that they don't think Rowand, especially the way he plays, can be productive for the length of a 5 year contract.


To add onto that, Bill Conlin has been saying that they (or at least he), believes Greg Golson will be ready for the majors by '09, which would place him in CF, Victorino in RF, and if Werth is still on the team, he would shift to LF, otherwise, they hunt for a power hitting LF, assuming they don't resign Burrell, which is probably a safe assumption.

[Kris10]

I'm still pro-Wolf

[HBox]

-Joe Kennedy (not a big fan of Kennedy)

Oof. That's a bit awkward now, isn't it?

[Kevin]

Oof. That's a bit awkward now, isn't it?

I would still deal Kei Igawa for him..

[cougarjake13]

I would still deal Kei Igawa for him..

throw in cory lidle and you got a deal

[Kevin]

throw in cory lidle and you got a deal

Your askin for too much there.

[HBox]

Your askin for too much there.

How about just Lidle's and Kennedy's life insurance pay outs?

[Kevin]

How about just Lidle's and Kennedy's life insurance pay outs?

That would pay like 1 month of Arods salary... I have to think about that..

[K.C.]

It's been pretty quiet for the Phils since the Lidge trade...this is the collection of things that've happened or been rumored over the last few weeks.

-Phils have been linked to Japanese starter Hiroki Kuroda, and ex-Phil Randy Wolf in talks. They've supposedly made offers to both, but the rumors I've seen regarding Kuroda have him getting 4 year offers. Gillick usually doesn't go over 3, so my guess is they'll ultimately lose out on him. Wolf, however, seems a distinct possibility. My guess is they'll announce the signing of a pitcher at the Winter Meetings. And I'm pretty sure Kuroda will announce his decision then as well.

-They traded for Chris Snelling from the Rays for cash consideration. Snelling was at one time a very good prospect with the Mariners, but injuries have destroyed his career. My guess is he'll compete with Chris Roberson and about five other guys for their last bench spot in Spring Training. There's a chance he could exceed expectations and regain his potential, but my expectations are low. He probably starts the year in AAA.

-They claimed Shane Youman from the Pirates off waivers. He'll compete for the last bullpen spot.

-The Phils denied any interest in trading for Orioles' 3B Melvin Mora.


It's hard to tell where they'll go next, mostly because the Phillies won't give an estimate of how much money they've got to spend this year. All they keep saying is it's more than last year. Most people are estimating about $105 million. My guess is they have a loose cap around $105 million, but probably another $5 million that Gillick can use at his discretion if they need it to plug in one final piece.

The only thing we really know for sure is that Rowand is probably gone.


If they sign Wolf, I'd say they're in good shape. They'd probably throw:
-Hamels
-Myers
-Wolf
-Kendrick
-Moyer

Honestly, at this point they're ahead of:
-Martinez
-Maine
-Perez
-Hernandez
-Pelfry

and

-Smoltz
-Hudson
-James
-Hampton (maybe)
-Jurrens

and

-Willis
-Sanchez
-Olson
-Mitre
-Barone

and whatever that mess in Washington ends up being.

The Mets pull off Santana or Haren, though, and all bets are off.

[K.C.]

This is the projected depth chart for each NL East team if the season started today

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3403/66363877ai5.jpg


If I was grading them:

Phillies
Offense: A
Defense: B+
Bench: D
Starting Rotation: B-
Bullpen: B+

Mets
Offense: A-
Defense: B+
Bench: B-
Starting Rotation: C+
Bullpen: B

Braves
Offense: B-
Defense: C
Bench: B
Starting Rotation: B+
Bullpen: C

Nationals
Offense: C+ (but with potential to move up)
Defense: C
Bench: B+
Starting Rotation: D-
Bullpen: A

Marlins
Offense: B-
Defense: C-
Bench: C
Starting Rotation: C-
Bullpen: C-

[K.C.]

Latest new out of Opryland is that Tadahito Iguchi approached the Phillies and informed them he'd be interested in coming back to play 3B.

Sounds like a good fit. Iguchi at 3B full-time, Helms to the bench, Dobbs to RF to form a left/right platoon with Werth, and Bruntlett remains the all purpose utility guy.

[Earlshog]

Latest new out of Opryland is that Tadahito Iguchi approached the Phillies and informed them he'd be interested in coming back to play 3B.

Sounds like a good fit. Iguchi at 3B full-time, Helms to the bench, Dobbs to RF to form a left/right platoon with Werth, and Bruntlett remains the all purpose utility guy.

I would really like that... They made a mistake getting rid of Palianco and this would be chance to add a similar pesky type hitter to the line up. When you have a guy like Rollins at short and Utley at second you don't need big power numbers at third.

They are trying to bang out a contract with Howard. He will comand a 6 year, 15 mil per deal at least.

[K.C.]

I would really like that... They made a mistake getting rid of Palianco and this would be chance to add a similar pesky type hitter to the line up. When you have a guy like Rollins at short and Utley at second you don't need big power numbers at third.

They are trying to bang out a contract with Howard. He will comand a 6 year, 15 mil per deal at least.

Agreed...Iguchi is a scrappy player, and he doesn't strike out a lot. He also plays the fundamentals really well, and I'm sure he'll be at least an average if not above average 3B if he learns the position.

[K.C.]

Iguchi is being termed as 'unlikely' now.

His agent said he wouldn't petition the league unless the Phillies put an offer in place first, and the consensus seems to be that the league won't grant Iguchi an exception.

Sounds like he's heading to the Brewers.


There was a horrendous WIP rumor today that the Phils were going to give up Kendrick, Victorino, and Carrasco for Bedard...I don't buy that for a second on either end.

Rowand seems unlikely, too.


I don't know what the hell they do now...they're kind of in a tough spot. I could see them going 4/40 for Lohse, but it sounds like Lohse is angling for 5/50.

He's by far the best pitcher left on the market, and he has way more upside than Silva. Lohse pitched well for them down the stretch. I'd say the hell with it and throw some cash his way.

Anything than suffering through another year of Eaton.

[Earlshog]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7564680


The Philadelphia Phillies and San Diego Padres have emerged as the leading contenders for free-agent outfielder Geoff Jenkins.

[K.C.]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7564680


The Philadelphia Phillies and San Diego Padres have emerged as the leading contenders for free-agent outfielder Geoff Jenkins.

It wouldn't be a terrible move. They need a left-hander to platoon with Werth and spell Burrell every so often.

Not sure if he's signed yet, but I would have preferred Brad Wilkerson. I think he has a little more upside. But Jenkins would be fine.

[K.C.]

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is reporting the Phillies signed Detroit spot-starter Chad Durbin.

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on my blog about this earlier today; I don't feel like retyping it out.

Most people are looking at him as a reliever, but honestly, if I were the Phillies, I'd only sign him if I was considering him for the #5 rotation spot. He'll be 30 entering the season, which means he's probably still got a little bit of potential to grow left in him. After his first three starts where he got hit hard, he posted a 2.99 ERA in his remaining 11 with Detroit. Now, he did struggle late in the year after moving back to the bullpen. If I had to guess, part of it was fatigue, and some of it was probably mental, being demoted after pitching so well. If Lohse and Benson fall through, I'd give Durbin a real strong look. Could be a big-time bargain.

and


My initial inclination is that the Phillies are not done. I could still see them pull off Kris Benson
and then let Kyle Kendrick, Adam Eaton, and Durbin all compete for the final rotation spot.

[scottinnj]

What do you think the lineup should be?

I figure Cole at the #1 spot and Kendrick at #2

But I'm not a numbers guy like you all are...so let me know what you think and why to get me up to speed.

[K.C.]

#1 - Hamels
#2 - Myers
#3 - Moyer (Personally, I think Kendrick should be #3, but they'll throw Moyer)
#4 - Kendrick
#5 - Durbin (unless Eaton somehow beats him out)

I could see them signing one more guy like Benson, though. And going:
-Hamels
-Myers
-Moyer
-Benson

And then letting Durbin, Kendrick, and Eaton fight it out for #5...I know a lot of people are high on Kendrick, but every quote I've seen from Gillick suggests he's not a lock to be in the rotation to start the season.

[cougarjake13]

#1 - Hamels
#2 - Myers
#3 - Moyer (Personally, I think Kendrick should be #3, but they'll throw Moyer)
#4 - Kendrick
#5 - Durbin (unless Eaton somehow beats him out)

I could see them signing one more guy like Benson, though. And going:
-Hamels
-Myers
-Moyer
-Benson

And then letting Durbin, Kendrick, and Eaton fight it out for #5...I know a lot of people are high on Kendrick, but every quote I've seen from Gillick suggests he's not a lock to be in the rotation to start the season.


why the hell would you want the poor man's right handed tom glavine???

and im thinking theyll go hamels myers moyer so they have that left right lefty righty matchup

[K.C.]

why the hell would you want the poor man's right handed tom glavine???

and im thinking theyll go hamels myers moyer so they have that left right lefty righty matchup

Because it beats spending $40-$50 million for Kyle Lohse to do the same thing.

...and his wife might be a little entertaining...for the first 10 minutes, at least...:huh:

[cougarjake13]

Because it beats spending $40-$50 million for Kyle Lohse.

...and his wife might be a little entertaining...for the first 10 minutes, at least...:huh:

just saying it didnt work out to well for us

[Earlshog]

Phillies, Werth agree to $1.7 million, 1-year deal

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/01/07/bc.bbo.mlb.roundup.ap/index.html

[Earlshog]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3217245

Catcher Lieberthal retires after 14 seasons in majors

[PigShitIrish]

Jason Stark is reporting that the Phils signed Pedro Feliz to a two year deal.

[PigShitIrish]

So they signed Benson, and I guess it's a good move. Anybody feeling baseball yet now that pitchers & catchers have reported?

[cougarjake13]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3217245

Catcher Lieberthal retires after 14 seasons in majors

he was good once

[cougarjake13]

So they signed Benson, and I guess it's a good move. Anybody feeling baseball yet now that pitchers & catchers have reported?

i will once the pba bowling season is over

[Kris10]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3217245

Catcher Lieberthal retires after 14 seasons in majors

He should have retired with the Phils :nono: Come in and leave. I still have the newspaper clipping hanging up at my desk at work when he signed with the Dodgers, I was upset about that move. :glurps: Happy retirement Lieby.

[Earlshog]

So they signed Benson, and I guess it's a good move. Anybody feeling baseball yet now that pitchers & catchers have reported?

I wonder how Anna is going to be received in Philly

[Fallon]

'Trade' to Japan leaves Kendrick in shock

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[K.C.]

'Trade' to Japan leaves Kendrick in shock

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That's one of the best baseball pranks I've seen in a long time.

[K.C.]

I feel pretty good about this team with Spring starting up.

I guess the camp battles will be:

Starting RF - Jayson Werth vs. Geoff Jenkins

Both will make the team, and this will probably end up with both platooning, unless someone falls apart this spring.

5th Starter
Kris Benson vs. Adam Eaton vs. Chad Durbin vs. J.D. Durbin vs. Travis Blackley vs. Josh Outman vs. Carlos Carrasco vs. J.A. Happ

A lot of names. The three youngsters at the back are more likely to begin the season in the minors. I saw Outman pitch last season and he still needs seasoning, although he has excellent stuff. Carrasco is close...Happ is the most MLB ready, but has the weakest stuff of the three.

Blackley was a Rule 5 guy...if he pitches well enough, I could see him catch on in the pen, but most likely he's not going to make the cut. J.D. Durbin had several shots in the past...they don't like his control.

So I'd say it's between Benson, Eaton, and Chad Durbin. I think it's Benson's job if he's healthy. The problem is that he maintains he'll be ready by Opening Day, but the club doesn't think so. If he's not healthy, then unless Adam Eaton has a horrendous spring, he'll probably be penciled in with a short leash. Chad Durbin's versatility to go between the bullpen and rotation actually hurts him, as they could use him in the pen.

Last Two Bench Spots - Greg Dobbs vs. Wes Helms vs. Eric Bruntlett vs. Chris Snelling

Dobbs is probably a lock...The Phils have five OFs signed to significant contracts, so Snelling is unlikely. So it comes down to Helms vs. Bruntlett...and unless Helms shows a major resurgance, the ability of Bruntlett to play multiple positions gives him the nod.

[cougarjake13]

'Trade' to Japan leaves Kendrick in shock

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that was fucking badass

[Earlshog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/02/23/bc.bbn.phillies.lidgehu.ap/index.html



Phillies closer Brad Lidge caught a spike in the mound on his first pitch of batting practice Saturday and hurt the same knee he had surgery on in October

[cougarjake13]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/02/23/bc.bbn.phillies.lidgehu.ap/index.html



Phillies closer Brad Lidge caught a spike in the mound on his first pitch of batting practice Saturday and hurt the same knee he had surgery on in October

ohhhh not so good

[EddieMoscone]

ohhhh not so good

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/news/story?id=3262500

He's having surgery...out 3-6 weeks.

[K.C.]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/news/story?id=3262500

He's having surgery...out 3-6 weeks.

Obviously, it's not good news, but it's only a big deal if he misses the start of the season.

I didn't really think he'd throw a lot of Spring Training innings to begin with...and closers generally don't anyway.

[cougarjake13]

i wish the mets would play the phillies in spring training

clearwater is so much closer than port st lucie

[EddieMoscone]

Obviously, it's not good news, but it's only a big deal if he misses the start of the season.

I didn't really think he'd throw a lot of Spring Training innings to begin with...and closers generally don't anyway.

Chris Russo actually made a good point for once the other day when he said Lidge getting off to a good start was really important to the Phillies season, considering his spotty performance/health the past few years. Some people already think this guy is fragile mentally...this kind of thing won't help.

[cougarjake13]

Chris Russo actually made a good point for once the other day when he said Lidge getting off to a good start was really important to the Phillies season, considering his spotty performance/health the past few years. Some people already think this guy is fragile mentally...this kind of thing won't help.

he'll come back and trying to hard to get things going right and throw his arm out

[K.C.]

Chris Russo actually made a good point for once the other day when he said Lidge getting off to a good start was really important to the Phillies season, considering his spotty performance/health the past few years. Some people already think this guy is fragile mentally...this kind of thing won't help.

Well, forgive me if I don't trust WFAN for analysis on the Phillies.

He rushed back from previous injury, and he wasn't ready yet. It happens. It's not like it's a recurring injury that might be in his head every time he throws a pitch, a la Mark Prior.

I don't think this will affect him either way, and it sounds like he'll be throwing next week, and probably work into a few late Spring Training games...unless he suffers a set back, he'll be fine for Opening Day.

I will say that Russo's right in that he needs to get off to a good start. And he's also right that if Lidge isn't there, there's a good chance that what was shaping up to be a pretty good Phillies bullpen this year could blow apart.

But people are reading too much into the injury at this point. If you start hearing talk about him being 'doubtful to start the season,' then it's an issue.

[PigShitIrish]

What do you think about Myers being the opening day starter?

[Earlshog]

What do you think about Myers being the opening day starter?



I like it. Don't forget the beginning of last year he was touted as one of the top ten pitchers in all of baseball. He is back in the rotation, and if the Phillies are going to compete for the division and ultimately make it to the series they're going to need Myers to pitch like an ace.

[Knowledged_one]

What do you think about Myers being the opening day starter?

I think if a female reporter asks him about it he will smack her around

[hexy68]

What do you think about Myers being the opening day starter?

he's the ace...i don't think Hamels will have a problem with it

[K.C.]

What do you think about Myers being the opening day starter?

The only reason they did it was to squash any, "Hey Brett, if Lidge is hurt to start the season and the Phillies ask you, will you go back to closing?" questions.

Reporters started asking him that yesterday, so the Phils wanted to crush that and keep him focused on starting...plus, it's a nice tip of the hat to him for essentially giving up his spot as the ace of the staff, to go to the pen, for the good of the team.


That said...I'd have started Hamels. I want my lefties split up. Hamels to Myers to Moyer.

Now you figure Hamels and Moyer will go back to back.

[PigShitIrish]

I understand they did it to appease him because he sounded a little too eager to go back to the pen. But does that eagerness worry you at all?

[Kris10]

I'd go with Hamels as starting day pitcher then Myers. Just my 2 cents. And I'm ticked I didn't win opening day tickets :(

[cougarjake13]

I understand they did it to appease him because he sounded a little too eager to go back to the pen. But does that eagerness worry you at all?

id only be worried if his performance suffers

[BoondockSaint]

Hamels looked good.

[Earlshog]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10683655

Phils coach Lopes has prostate cancer, expected to miss six weeks

[cougarjake13]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10683655

Phils coach Lopes has prostate cancer, expected to miss six weeks

that sucks

[Earlshog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/specials/spring_training/2008/03/09/phillies.eaton.ap/index.html

Injury bug hits Eaton early
Phillies pitcher has herniated disk, arthritis in back

[cougarjake13]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/specials/spring_training/2008/03/09/phillies.eaton.ap/index.html

Injury bug hits Eaton early
Phillies pitcher has herniated disk, arthritis in back

thats bad

[K.C.]

thats bad

No, that's good.

We don't have to watch him pitch now...I'd rather see one of the youngsters.

[scottinnj]

No, that's good.

We don't have to watch him pitch now...I'd rather see one of the youngsters.

Has Kendrich gotten his changeup pitch mastered yet? He is "working" on it during the preseason.

[Earlshog]

With 13 days to go before Opening Day, the Phillies are still evaluating their options involving infielder Wes Helms. With utility infielders Greg Dobbs and Eric Bruntlett in the fold, the third baseman appears to be out of a roster spot. The Phillies would like to trade him. Here's one move that seems to make sense: Helms to the Giants for lefthanded pitcher Steve Kline.

[PigShitIrish]

I heard yesterday that the Dodgers are all of the sudden interested in Helms. I don't think it really matters to them what they get for him, just so long as he's gone.

[cougarjake13]

No, that's good.

We don't have to watch him pitch now...I'd rather see one of the youngsters.

i thought you guys liked eaton ???

[PigShitIrish]

i thought you guys loathed eaton ???

Fixed it for you.

[K.C.]

I heard yesterday that the Dodgers are all of the sudden interested in Helms. I don't think it really matters to them what they get for him, just so long as he's gone.

Helms won't be on the team...the question is just if they get anything for him.

Not worried about Kendrick, yet...people tend to blow the Spring out of proportion.

I switched on 610 for the first time in a while the other day...surprise, surprise...they were already talking about 'destined for failure' and sort of hedging their bets.

[PigShitIrish]

I switched on 610 for the first time in a while the other day...surprise, surprise...they were already talking about 'destined for failure' and sort of hedging their bets.

Yeah, they've been on that kick for a while now, but to be fair, a lot of people are down on them. Bill Conlin's article the other day has them picked to come in 3rd in the East.

[K.C.]

Yeah, they've been on that kick for a while now, but to be fair, a lot of people are down on them. Bill Conlin's article the other day has them picked to come in 3rd in the East.

I hate the fact that people view Conlin as a respect baseball writer in this market. He's been off his rocker for years.

At one point...yeah, he was insightful...but ever since the Phillies kicked him out of the scout's section at Citizens Bank Park 2-3 years ago, he's had an axe to grind with them.

And then you get stuff like
-His 18 flip-flops on whether Myers should be in the bullpen or not.
-The ridiculous article about Freddy Galvis and even implanting the suggestion that he could be on the MLB team if Rollins went down for the year because of defense (Absolute ZERO chance of that...they don't promote players solely based on defense anymore, and especially at SS).


He just irritates me more than anything these days.


By the way, Kendrick threw five shutout innings today...guess he stopped working on the changeup.

[Earlshog]

I heard yesterday that the Dodgers are all of the sudden interested in Helms. I don't think it really matters to them what they get for him, just so long as he's gone.


I think a bucket of balls and some eye black is a fair trade

[Kris10]

I think a bucket of balls and some eye black is a fair trade

I'd be happy with a replacement batboy

[cougarjake13]

but i thought helms was supposed to be the 2nd coming of micheal jack schmidt ???

[cougarjake13]

http://www.the700level.com/images/2007/07/15/10000lossesphillies15.jpg

[cougarjake13]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21/phillesuck32/6hrqlw.jpg

[Kevin]

but i thought helms was supposed to be the 2nd coming of micheal jack schmidt ???

Who the hell said that? I doubt it considering he is a journeyman.

[Kevin]

And seriously CJ.. You can not possibly make fun of the Phillies when they were greatly responsible for causing you to have the biggest collapse in reg season history.

[cougarjake13]

Who the hell said that? I doubt it considering he is a journeyman.

no one i was just trying to stir up some phillies

[cougarjake13]

And seriously CJ.. You can not possibly make fun of the Phillies when they were greatly responsible for causing you to have the biggest collapse in reg season history.



well not really in their collapse in september they lost only 3 games to the phils

it was actually going 1-5 against the nationals that hurt worse

heres the breakdown

9-1 and 9-2 @ braves mets win 2-0
9-3 to 9-5 @ reds mets win series 2-1
9-7 to 9-9 astros mets win series 3-0

9-10 to 9-12 braves mets win series 2-1
9-14 to 9-16 phillies phils win series 3-0
9-17 to 9-19 @ nationals nats win series 2-1

9-20 to 9-23 @ marlins mets win series 3-1
9-24 to 9-26 nationals nats win series 3-0
9-27 makeup game vs cards mets lost

9-28 to 9-30 marlins marlins win series 2-1

[K.C.]

well not really in their collapse in september they lost only 3 games to the phils

it was actually going 1-5 against the nationals that hurt worse

heres the breakdown

9-1 and 9-2 @ braves mets win 2-0
9-3 to 9-5 @ reds mets win series 2-1
9-7 to 9-9 astros mets win series 3-0

9-10 to 9-12 braves mets win series 2-1
9-14 to 9-16 phillies phils win series 3-0
9-17 to 9-19 @ nationals nats win series 2-1

9-20 to 9-23 @ marlins mets win series 3-1
9-24 to 9-26 nationals nats win series 3-0
9-27 makeup game vs cards mets lost

9-28 to 9-30 marlins marlins win series 2-1

Funny how you leave out that end of August four game sweep that set the wheels in motion. The Phils were within 2 games or something before the first game was ever played in September because of that sweep at the end of August.

So it's more like the Phillies were responisble for seven loses in the Mets' EPIC collapse.

[cougarjake13]

Funny how you leave out that end of August four game sweep that set the wheels in motion. The Phils were within 2 games or something before the first game was ever played in September because of that sweep at the end of August.

So it's more like the Phillies were responisble for seven loses in the Mets' EPIC collapse.

oh yes absolutely that played a great part of it

but there was still a full month of games left after that 4 game sweep

and once again if the mets even go 3-3 instead of 1-5 against the nationals they win the division by one game

so yes the 7 losses to the phils hurt and set the collapse in motion but losing 5 out of 6 to the nats and 5 out of 7 to the marlins in the last 2 weeks had more damage then the phils losses

[K.C.]

oh yes absolutely that played a great part of it

but there was still a full month of games left after that 4 game sweep

and once again if the mets even go 3-3 instead of 1-5 against the nationals they win the division by one game

so yes the 7 losses to the phils hurt and set the collapse in motion but losing 5 out of 6 to the nats and 5 out of 7 to the marlins in the last 2 weeks had more damage then the phils losses

Nobody will deny how significant the Mets' part in their own demise was.

But at the same time, you can't understate how important a part losing seven to the Phillies was.

Most teams go through losing stretches during a season...but when you start seeing game after game being shaved off your lead...when you see a 7 game lead evaporate to two in a week....when each time you finally think you've righted the ship with a win, your opponent keeps pace...it rattles at a team.

Look at Jose Reyes last year. You can't tell me that he was not completely rattled by the end of that run. As good as that guy is, he should never have made some of the horrendous fundamental mistakes he did.

The point is that the Phillies played an equal part in that Mets collapse and you kind of get the impression just from listening to Mets players talk this Spring, that if they Phils come out and sweep them early this season or win 2 out of 3 (an unlikely proposition, though, since they're the have to be the worst team in the history of April), they'll be in their head all over again.

[cougarjake13]

Nobody will deny how significant the Mets' part in their own demise was.

But at the same time, you can't understate how important a part losing seven to the Phillies was.

Most teams go through losing stretches during a season...but when you start seeing game after game being shaved off your lead...when you see a 7 game lead evaporate to two in a week....when each time you finally think you've righted the ship with a win, your opponent keeps pace...it rattles at a team.

Look at Jose Reyes last year. You can't tell me that he was not completely rattled by the end of that run. As good as that guy is, he should never have made some of the horrendous fundamental mistakes he did.

The point is that the Phillies played an equal part in that Mets collapse and you kind of get the impression just from listening to Mets players talk this Spring, that if they Phils come out and sweep them early this season or win 2 out of 3 (an unlikely proposition, though, since they're the have to be the worst team in the history of April), they'll be in their head all over again.


yes the 7 games killed us b/c if any of those 7 losses was a win it would have been a tie for the division

but yet all of those losses would have been meaningless if they didnt go 3- 10 against the marlins and nationals when it mattered most


i dont think i'd agree that reyes was rattled ... it was more reyes thinking he was too much hot shit and thought that the mets were automatic for the playoffs and loafed a bit

[Earlshog]

Flash is looking good.... :wallbash:

[Kris10]

He needs another month of spring training

[Kris10]

Romero was able to get guys out!!!

[Kris10]

Jim Thome is pitching??? When did this happen?

[Kris10]

Jim Thome is pitching??? When did this happen?

Nevermind my mlb gamecast was stuck on 2 games...said chicago on top and philly on bottom... was like huh?

[King Hippos Bandaid]

0-1 wa wa wa wa

[K.C.]

0-1 wa wa wa wa

I'm too drunk and beligerent right now to take this from Mets fans. You'll get yours when you play someone other than the worst team in baseball.



Manuel should have left Romero in...Gordon isn't a natural closer these days, and Romero looked good. Bah!

[Bossanova]

I'm too drunk and beligerent right now to take this from Mets fans. You'll get yours when you play someone other than the worst team in baseball. Manuel should have left Romero in...Gordon isn't a natural closer these days, and Romero looked good. Bah!
:lol::clap::lol::clap::lol::clap::lol::clap::lol:

Your team stinks

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I'm too drunk and beligerent right now to take this from Mets fans. You'll get yours when you play someone other than the worst team in baseball.



Manuel should have left Romero in...Gordon isn't a natural closer these days, and Romero looked good. Bah!

hey they all learned how to blow a save by Brad Lidge

who should be blowing saves by the end of April

[Kris10]

hey they all learned how to blow a save by Brad Lidge

who should be blowing saves by the end of April

Shut up Hippo, we'll see whose crying on April 8th during your home opener.

[K.C.]

Shut up Hippo, we'll see whose crying on April 8th during your home opener.

Fuckin' A....I got my 2007 Pennant giveaway at the stadium today...they won't be giving those out at Shea...hmmm...wonder why...

[Bossanova]

Fuckin' A....I got my 2007 Pennant giveaway at the stadium today...they won't be giving those out at Shea...hmmm...wonder why...Because we are still watching replays of the Phillies first round sweep

[King Hippos Bandaid]

great pitching staff, your # 1 starter and pitching staff gives up 10 to the Nationals


I cant wait to see how many runs you give up to a real team

[K.C.]

Because we are still watching replays of the Phillies first round sweep

You were able to wipe the tears out of your eyes from the epicness of that collapse long enough to see that??

[Bossanova]

You were able to wipe the tears out of your eyes from the epicness of that collapse long enough to see that??HAHA. Sadly, we all saw it coming so it didnt hurt as much as you think.* Sucked yes, but watching your team tank in the playoffs helped.

[Ogre]

great pitching staff, your # 1 starter and pitching staff gives up 10 to the Nationals


I cant wait to see how many runs you give up to a real team

Excuse me last time I checked they have uniforms and everything. Also checking the standings they are a very real 2-0. Hmmmm no love for my Nats. You will all be soooooorry...sooo very soooooorry.

[K.C.]

Excuse me last time I checked they have uniforms and everything. Also checking the standings they are a very real 2-0. Hmmmm no love for my Nats. You will all be soooooorry...sooo very soooooorry.

Wait....there's actually Nationals fans???

:innocent:

[scottinnj]

F the Nationals. They suck, but they have our number for some reason. The Nats are going to tank like last year, and we've always had a rough start, but then do better towards the All Star break.

All we need to have happen is to let Madsen cross Broad street with a blindfold on. That'll only help our bullpen. And Gordon now has an ERA for 2008 of 135 for .1 innings pitched.

And the Mets won. The hardest thing to be in America is a Phillies fan. The rest of the NL East can go to hell though.

And I hope the Yankees catch cancer and die.

[scottinnj]

great pitching staff, your # 1 starter and pitching staff gives up 10 to the Nationals


I cant wait to see how many runs you give up to a real team

He's not our number one. At least not now. I have no idea why Cole didn't start today. The problem with Myers isn't his pitching, it's how he deals with a crisis. We got lucky in the 2nd when he loaded the bases, but it shook him bad and he went downhill from there to the debacle in the 5th inning.

Just wait for us King. We've got your number and Jimmy and Chase will be hitting balls so hard out of Shea stadium they'll be landing on the Jersey Turnpike. Stupid Mets have sucked since they clamped down on cocaine.

[Earlshog]

Met fans are a bit brazen lot on the heals of the most historic collapse in baseball history...

Lesson not learned?


As far as Myers, its openeing day these things happen. They need him to pitch like the top ten pitcher he is they are going to beat out the Braves for the division.

[Kris10]

Honestly though, when the hell have we EVER won an Opening Day? Its been awhile. Its the 1st game, no sweat.

I really want Rollins to knock them out of Shea next week. Hit that fuckin apple so hard it shatters.

[Kris10]

Excuse me last time I checked they have uniforms and everything. Also checking the standings they are a very real 2-0. Hmmmm no love for my Nats. You will all be soooooorry...sooo very soooooorry.

Please, your still the Expos in disguise.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Please, your still the Expos in disguise.

:lol:

nice one


Phillies still suck and will be in 3rd place

[K.C.]

Met fans are a bit brazen lot on the heals of the most historic collapse in baseball history...

Lesson not learned?


You're forgetting...they got Santana...he's going to win 35 games with 0.46 ERA.

[K.C.]

Honestly though, when the hell have we EVER won an Opening Day? Its been awhile. Its the 1st game, no sweat.


No...I remember being there for the last year of the Vet on Opening Day when Reggie F'n Sanders hit a grand slame off Joe F'n Roa in route to a Pirates blowout.

The Phillies are cursed on Opening Day.

I think the year Lieber started it they beat the Nats...that's the only one I remember.

[K.C.]

And I hope the Yankees catch cancer and die.

I disagree.

My order of hatred
1) Mets
2) Red Sox
3) Yankees


Yanks are the lesser of three evils from where I sit.

[Kris10]

No...I remember being there for the last year of the Vet on Opening Day when Reggie F'n Sanders hit a grand slame off Joe F'n Roa in route to a Pirates blowout.

The Phillies are cursed on Opening Day.

I think the year Lieber started it they beat the Nats...that's the only one I remember.

Few and far between....

[cougarjake13]

Wait....there's actually Nationals fans???

:innocent:

nah, just 2


ogre and el mudo

[cougarjake13]

You're forgetting...they got Santana...he's going to win 35 games with 0.46 ERA.

even i thinks thats a bit much

30 wins and 1.28 era is possible

[K.C.]

On a different note, I just started writing for RealGM.com...i'm finishing up school, and the guy who runs it offered me a chance to write some columns on the Phillies this season.

It's a lot different the normal ball-busting/BS i put on here, so if you want, check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_teamarticle/443/20080401/phillies_trailing_in_nl_east_arms_race/

[PigShitIrish]

On a different note, I just started writing for RealGM.com...i'm finishing up school, and the guy who runs it offered me a chance to write some columns on the Phillies this season.

It's a lot different the normal ball-busting/BS i put on here, so if you want, check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_teamarticle/443/20080401/phillies_trailing_in_nl_east_arms_race/

Great stuff! Be sure to keep us updated on the rest of your columns.

[scottinnj]

On a different note, I just started writing for RealGM.com...i'm finishing up school, and the guy who runs it offered me a chance to write some columns on the Phillies this season.

It's a lot different the normal ball-busting/BS i put on here, so if you want, check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_teamarticle/443/20080401/phillies_trailing_in_nl_east_arms_race/

Great stuff! Be sure to keep us updated on the rest of your columns.


That was good. Bad news for the fans, but hell, you have to tell the truth. I don't think the pitching situation in Philly will ever get better though until the ownership changes.

On another note, PigShitIrish, you need to post more. You're a good add to the board and particularly here.

[K.C.]

Great stuff! Be sure to keep us updated on the rest of your columns.

Thanks...it was a bit more wordy than I usually like, but it was a broad subject.

As far as the deep statisical stuff, that's what my editor likes...I think he wants the site geared to a statstically-nerdy type of crowd, which I'm totally fine with.

[K.C.]

That was good. Bad news for the fans, but hell, you have to tell the truth. I don't think the pitching situation in Philly will ever get better though until the ownership changes.


It's not exactly bad news yet...but on paper, that's the situation. What you hope is that Kendrick either improves his splits or is the exception to the rule, and Moyer benfeits enough from the improved defense (Feliz at third, Victorino in CF) that he bumps his ERA a little.

Eaton....yeesh....the sad thing is his numbers actually make him look even worse...maybe Benson will work out.

The next topic I'm going to start research on, though, is projecting the pitching prospects in the organization, provided a big story doesn't break between now and my deadline next week. My initial impression is that there's some good news on the way in terms of Carrasco, Outman, and Savery. But I need to look into it more.

[Earlshog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/04/01/saenz.phillies.ap/index.html

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Right-hander Rudy Seanez agreed to a contract with the Philadelphia Phillies on Tuesday.

[Earlshog]

Nice job K.C.

If Myers and Hammels pitch up to their potential it takes a lot of heat of the back end of the rotation. The Phils season will be heavily influenced by the progression / regression of Kendrick. Moyer 200 innings and 5 ERA ( in Philly a 5 ERA is a 4.5 at shea) is about what you expect at this point. The five spot anything positive is gravy. So far the positive is that Eaton is hurt and will not be pitching.

[scottinnj]

We were looking at the schedule for April today at work and came up with 15 wins, 13 losses for the Phils, 2 games above 500. Anyone else agree?

[scottinnj]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/04/01/saenz.phillies.ap/index.html

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Right-hander Rudy Seanez agreed to a contract with the Philadelphia Phillies on Tuesday.


The 39-year-old Seanez was 6-3 with a 3.79 ERA and one save in a career-high 73 games for the Dodgers last season. Seanez first pitched for the Dodgers in 1994-95. He has also played for Cleveland, San Diego, Atlanta, Texas, Boston, Kansas City and Florida.

Overall, Seanez is 36-26 with a 4.15 ERA and 12 saves in 502 appearances -- all as a reliever -- over 16 seasons. Seanez had his best season with the Padres in 2005. He was 7-1 with a 2.69 ERA in 57 games.


Why do we keep signing all the old guys?

[cougarjake13]

We were looking at the schedule for April today at work and came up with 15 wins, 13 losses for the Phils, 2 games above 500. Anyone else agree?

nah i see 17-11

[cougarjake13]

Why do we keep signing all the old guys?

thats all thats available i guess

[hammersavage]

'One hit...one goddamn hit!'

'You can't say goddamn on the air.'

'Who cares, nobody's listening.'

[K.C.]

'One hit...one goddamn hit!'

'You can't say goddamn on the air.'

'Who cares, nobody's listening.'

Just got back from the park...brutal....absolutely brutal. Either Tim Redding performed some Pedro Cerrano-esque ritual involving a live chicken and the ghost of Warren Spahn, or the Phillies are off to a classic 6-15 April start....no biggie.

And hey...that vaunted Mets' pitching staff is 1/5th less vaunted after today. Hope Santana can up his projected wins from 35 to 42...I'm sure he can.

[K.C.]

I will say, though, even though the Mets fan will probably go apeshit at this 'blashphemy' that I can see a case developing for Ryan Zimmerman, not David Wright, being the best third basemen in the NL.

...just sayin'

[cougarjake13]

I will say, though, even though the Mets fan will probably go apeshit at this 'blashphemy' that I can see a case developing for Ryan Zimmerman, not David Wright, being the best third basemen in the NL.

...just sayin'

nope i can see it , give him a few years like wright has had and he will most def be

[scottinnj]

We were looking at the schedule for April today at work and came up with 15 wins, 13 losses for the Phils, 2 games above 500. Anyone else agree?

Can I change my answer please?

[King Hippos Bandaid]

:lol:

0-2

shut out at your fucking park, by the nats



god awful


Nats gr8 job, I wont mock you, 3-0 is not too ahabby

[Johnny Manf]

Yeah I was at the game last night too.
Hamels looked shakey in the beginning with some walks but he really had a great outing. 8 innings picthed, only 5 hits and one run. Not too bad at all. The Phils just couldnt put together an offense.

Here's the view from my new season ticket seats in 102.

http://i31.tinypic.com/2dudyk5.jpg

[Earlshog]

:lol:

0-2

shut out at your fucking park, by the nats



god awful


Nats gr8 job, I wont mock you, 3-0 is not too ahabby


The Phillies always start out so strong, this is really a surprise to all Phillies fans...

There is no way we can make up all these games on the Mets.... Lets toss in that towel after two games....

Is Doc is on furlough next week? He can plug in the number two spot... hahahahahaha

[K.C.]

Hey...we're turning it around today! Only two errors in the first inning.

Nice throw Utley...:wallbash:


Even better...4-0...still in the first.

[Bossanova]

Hey...we're turning it around today! Only two errors in the first inning.

Nice throw Utley...:wallbash:


Even better...4-0...still in the first.

So wait, who has the better lineup?

[King Hippos Bandaid]

get the Brooms

Nationals are pwning you

[K.C.]

So wait, who has the better lineup?

Well, to be fair...they haven't actually hit yet today. Wait until Utley/Howard/Jenkins/Burrell combine for an 0-16 with 10 Ks today, and then ask me again.

Oh, and 5-0.

[Bossanova]

Well, to be fair...they haven't actually hit yet today. Wait until Utley/Howard/Jenkins/Burrell combine for an 0-16 with 10 Ks today, and then ask me again.

Oh, and 5-0.

Jesus, i thought your pitching may be a problem this year but wow

[K.C.]

Error #3.

Bases Loaded, nobody out...I hope they burn these new uniforms and never wear them again.

[K.C.]

Phillies Phever!!! Great comeback!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

good comeback

maybe you guys can avoid a sweep

[K.C.]

good comeback

maybe you guys can avoid a sweep

Depends on whether Flash makes an appearence in this game.

[Kris10]

Bottom of the 6th rocked, Romero is getting ready to set up but Gordon isn't far behind.......

I loved Mitch, don't get me wrong but I don't feel any love for Gordon.

[K.C.]

Gordon and his 135.00 ERA in the early going have just entered a 7-7 tie game in the 9th.

[Kris10]

oh no!!! Here he is!!!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

way to leave the bases loaded twice

you deserve the broom

[Kris10]

way to leave the bases loaded twice

you deserve the broom

I'd love nothing more than to shove it up your fuckin ass.

[K.C.]

Utley has had a horrible game....he's just not getting to balls for whatever reason. Really, he's had a bad three games in the field.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I'd love nothing more than to shove it up your fuckin ass.

you know thats my turn on sweetie

[K.C.]

...always an adventure with Flash.

:unsure:

[Kris10]

Utley has had a horrible game....he's just not getting to balls for whatever reason. Really, he's had a bad three games in the field.

I think the 1st two games were better for him batting wise as opposed to todays game.

Thank god Flash got out of the top of the 9th, the Phils need to produce now.

Sorry, field wise he's stunk.

[Kris10]

you know thats my turn on sweetie

Fuck you douche bag

[K.C.]

I think the 1st two games were better for him batting wise as opposed to todays game.

Thank god Flash got out of the top of the 9th, the Phils need to produce now.

Sorry, field wise he's stunk.

Utley's been horrible in the field...in fact, Rollins and Howard have been too.

The only guy that's impressed so far fielding wise has been Feliz.


This situation is tailor made for a Jenkins or Feliz walk-off 'welcome to the club' HR.

[Earlshog]

So wait, who has the better lineup?

huh?

[Kris10]

Utley's been horrible in the field...in fact, Rollins and Howard have been too.

The only guy that's impressed so far fielding wise has been Feliz.


This situation is tailor made for a Jenkins or Feliz walk-off 'welcome to the club' HR.

And there is Jenkins for you. I really like this guy. He is really impressing me so far, I liked him in spring training too.

[K.C.]

And there is Jenkins for you. I really like this guy. He is really impressing me so far, I liked him in spring training too.

Good piece of hitting, there....Feliz....eh, not so much.

Come on Coste.

[Kris10]

Love Coste!!!

[Kris10]

Coste is our new Lieby.... I don't see him going anywhere.. he's a lifelong Philly. Unless he goes somewhere for his last year and retires afterwards.

[K.C.]

I guess Condrey gets the ball in the extra innings. Him and Tim Lahey are the only two left in the pen.

Can't even use Eaton (not that you'd want to)....he pinch ran earlier.

Maybe you let Myers throw an inning, since he throws on the side today anyway...take a page out of Joe Torre's book?

[Kris10]

Ehhh, Myers isn't scheduled to pitch again till Sat. Its Thurs, I'd use him if we went into the 13th or so.... otherwise stick it out with Condrey and Lahey.

[K.C.]

Milledge has looked like an entirely different player in these first three games...and that was the word out of Spring Training this year, too.

Methinks that's one the Mets are going to regret before the end of this season and well beyond.

[Kris10]

Milledge has looked like an entirely different player in these first three games...and that was the word out of Spring Training this year, too.

Methinks that's one the Mets are going to regret before the end of this season and well beyond.

:thumbup:

[Bossanova]

Milledge has looked like an entirely different player in these first three games...and that was the word out of Spring Training this year, too.

Methinks that's one the Mets are going to regret before the end of this season and well beyond.

I understand what you mean, but he wasn't going to amount to anything in NY. Mainly because they were never going to give him a chance. WIllie and Omar hated him personally. I think he got a raw deal, but I think it was better for him to leave town

[K.C.]

Unbelievable by Rollins! First to third on a sacrifice bunt??

MVP!

[K.C.]

I understand what you mean, but he wasn't going to amount to anything in NY. Mainly because they were never going to give him a chance. WIllie and Omar hated him personally. I think he got a raw deal, but I think it was better for him to leave town

Well, he had a bad wrap coming out of New York last year. I would hear stuff like he had no baseball sense, he wasn't committed, he was way too arrogant, he didn't show the work ethic to make adjustments...


But the turn around has been such a 180, especially if you hear how glowingly Manny Acta talks about him, that I have to wonder how much of it really was just BS coming out of the Mets' front office or clubhouse about a guy they didn't like.

Regardless, he's already impressed me...and I was pretty down on Milledge for a while too, because of what I used to hear about him.

[K.C.]

Good win...let's follow it up strong in Cincinnati. The Reds have been playing some good ball, to start, though.

[Bossanova]

Well, he had a bad wrap coming out of New York last year. I would hear stuff like he had no baseball sense, he wasn't committed, he was way too arrogant, he didn't show the work ethic to make adjustments...


But the turn around has been such a 180, especially if you hear how glowingly Manny Acta talks about him, that I have to wonder how much of it really was just BS coming out of the Mets' front office or clubhouse about a guy they didn't like.

Regardless, he's already impressed me...and I was pretty down on Milledge for a while too, because of what I used to hear about him.

Yeah, I hated his show boating, but saw alot in him. Just wish they gave him more of a shot instead of Shawn Green last year. He has def looked great so far, and I think I read where he was happy to be out of NY

[Kris10]

Where are you Hippo???

[PigShitIrish]

Great Win!! Now we have to take at least two from the Reds. No matter what they do in Cincinnati, I'm pumped for Monday. I'm meeting up with a bunch of people to watch that game, which, when you think about it, is pretty crazy for the second week of the season.

[Kris10]

Great Win!! Now we have to take at least two from the Reds. No matter what they do in Cincinnati, I'm pumped for Monday. I'm meeting up with a bunch of people to watch that game, which, when you think about it, is pretty crazy for the second week of the season.

Never too early to get excited for a good match up! Have fun!

[K.C.]

Phils pitching prospect Zagurski has surgery, to be out up to a year


April 4, 2008
CBSSports.com wire reports



CINCINNATI -- Left-hander Mike Zagurski, one of the Philadelphia Phillies' top minor league pitchers last season, had reconstructive elbow surgery and is expected to be sidelined for up to a year.

The 25-year-old pitcher started the season on the disabled list, still recovering from a torn hamstring that required surgery last August.

Zagurski was honored as the best pitcher in the Phillies' minors last year. A 12th-round pick in the June 2005 draft, he went 0-1 with a 1.39 earned run average in 25 minor league games.

Zagurski made his major league debut in May. He went 1-0 with a 5.91 ERA in 25 relief appearances during two stints with the Phillies.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

Copyright 2007-2008, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved

Bit of a shame...Zagurski had some closer potential. He may never be the same again after this. He was by no means one of the Phils' 'top pitching prospects.' as CBS is billing the story, but he was a good options out of the minors with upside.

[K.C.]

They're showing a doc on the '80 Phillies during this rain delay.

Fantastic...the afros and porno moustaches...the throwbacks...vintage Harry...best documentary ever!

Gary Maddux was a pimp!

[Kris10]

Poor Zagurski, I feel bad for the guy. I wish him the best.

Ok, I'm getting all teary about The Vet. I cried like a baby when they tore it down.

[K.C.]

Pat the Bat!!!! After the ball that Howard hit kind of hung up there, he must have crushed that to hit the upper deck.

[Kris10]

Nice 2 run homer by Burrell.... 3 run lead in the 1st... nice start.

[Kris10]

come onnnnnnnn !!!!!!!
WTF! This is going to be a long night.

**SIGH**

[Gvac]

Let's Go REDS!




http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/RedsHat.jpg

[cougarjake13]

must be the annual weeklong celebration of happy reds fan gvac

[K.C.]

must be the annual weeklong celebration of happy reds fan gvac

Eh...he'll be all tired out by next week and start resting up for next Opening Day.

[cougarjake13]

Eh...he'll be all tired out by next week and start resting up for next Opening Day.

or his annual search for a new nfl team

[Kris10]

8-4 win... nice. I was happy with Utley's performance tonight. Hopefully this will be a good series for us in Cincy.

[K.C.]

Utley was raking tonight....tomorrow is a difficult proposition.

Adam Eaton vs. Aaron Harang

Eaton only started one game versus the Reds last season.

6.0 IP, 6 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 2 K

You know what, if he duplicates that tomorrow, I'll take it. At least then we'll have a shot in the game. Harang had almost that exact same line versus the Phils in his only start against them last season, but obviously, Harang is a MUCH better pitcher.

The bats are going to have to show up tomorrow.

[K.C.]

Man...Howard just missed one. He's getting closer...

[K.C.]

Oh boy....Eaton just bounced his first pitch of '08 about 20 feet in front of the plate.

Followed up with a four pitch walk.

:wallbash:

Followed by SB

:wallbash:

...make that six straight balls.

:wallbash:

Hey! He got an out!

[K.C.]

Well, Eaton's through the 4th, Phils trail 2-1....I will say, that he hasn't looked particularly great, but he's been effective enough to get through the innings. This last inning was his best in particular.

He's catching a bit of a break, though. The Reds have crushed some balls off him (Griffey and Dunn, in particular) that would have been out of the park if the wind wasn't blowing in.

I'd like to see him get through six. If he's through six and it's still 2-1, Charlie should lift him regardless of pitch count...just let him build some confidence on a good start.

[K.C.]

Eaton's through six now on 68 pitches...been fantastic the last two innings. Got to say I'm impressed. Charlie's leaving him in because it's such a low pitch count.

He could conceivably go another two, if he stays in the groove he's been in since the 4th. I imagine if they get a lead, it'll go to Lidge in the 9th.


...I knew he was getting close....home run, Ryan Howard. Absolutely destroyed it. 3-2, Phils lead.

[cougarjake13]

3-3 top 9

[K.C.]

3-3 top 9

Yeah, Corey Patterson took Eaton deep in the 8th....still a good game by Eaton, though.

Chad Durbin pitching in the 9th versus 5-6-7 for the Reds (Dunn, Encarnacion, and Votto, I think).

[cougarjake13]

Yeah, Corey Patterson took Eaton deep in the 8th....still a good game by Eaton, though.

Chad Durbin pitching in the 9th versus 5-6-7 for the Reds (Dunn, Encarnacion, and Votto, I think).

i was hoping to catch some of the game but mlb extra innings isnt showing any of the games

[K.C.]

i was hoping to catch some of the game but mlb extra innings isnt showing any of the games

Well, it doesn't appear there may be much left to watch...Durbin is kind of imploding in the bottom of the 9th.

Although....he's facing the 'juggernaut' Paul Bako, so he may have a shot to get out of it.

Game over. Reds win.

[Kris10]

Why did I think this was a night game!!!! FUCK! I was ready for a 7:05 start.

[cougarjake13]

Why did I think this was a night game!!!! FUCK! I was ready for a 7:05 start.

could be wrong but there are very rarely 7pm sat nite games

[Kris10]

could be wrong but there are very rarely 7pm sat nite games

We have a lot of 7:05 Sat starts in Philly but I forgot we are out in Cincy. My head is elsewhere today... was busy going thru the aftermath of a tornado that hit my daughter's bedroom.

[cougarjake13]

We have a lot of 7:05 Sat starts in Philly but I forgot we are out in Cincy. My head is elsewhere today... was busy going thru the aftermath of a tornado that hit my daughter's bedroom.



hmmm for some reason i always thought that fri games were 705
sat were either 105, 140, or 355, 405 and sundays usually 105

[Kris10]

Damn! Bye Helms.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080405&content_id=2496841&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

In other news, Lidge was activated from the DL.

[K.C.]

Damn! Bye Helms.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080405&content_id=2496841&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi


Sounds like they basically sold Helms...and chances are the Phillies are picking up most of his $2.1 million, so my guess is they get like $300,000-$500,000 back on the deal. Doubt they'll get a player.

I guess that money could be thrown at a league minimum reliever on the wire at some point in the future if they need one.

But it's better than getting nothing, which it seems like they were going to get.

[cougarjake13]

i know its hindsight but palanco would look nice at 3rd

[Kris10]

i know its hindsight but palanco would look nice at 3rd

I was thinking this after I read the article on Helms.

[K.C.]

i know its hindsight but palanco would look nice at 3rd

Yeah, but we got Urbina!

...oh.....oooooohhhhhhhh...:huh:

[Kris10]

The first 3 innings have really sucked.

[K.C.]

The first 3 innings have really sucked.

Yeah...Myers is pretty lackluster today. They're not out of it by any means, especially in this ballpark, but Volquez is looking sharp for the Reds.

[BoondockSaint]

After the comeback last year to win the division, if the Phillies get off to another slow start is Manuel's job in trouble? Or is he safe because of last year?

[Kris10]

Yeah...Myers is pretty lackluster today. They're not out of it by any means, especially in this ballpark, but Volquez is looking sharp for the Reds.

Ugh, I had to go outside and work on the pool... I had no choice, my pool pump gave out and my dad dropped off his and we got to talking... I'm just came back to the game 8-2, doesn't seem like I missed much. Nice to see Lidge warming up though.

[scottinnj]

After the comeback last year to win the division, if the Phillies get off to another slow start is Manuel's job in trouble? Or is he safe because of last year?

He's safe. His contract is tighter then a pre-nup.

[K.C.]

After the comeback last year to win the division, if the Phillies get off to another slow start is Manuel's job in trouble? Or is he safe because of last year?

He's safe from a slow start because this team always starts slow. If they're .500 coming out of April, I'll be ecstatic.

For them to fire Charlie this season, his players would have to quit on him, or then would have to be absolutely horrendous.

As long as they stay in the 80s in wins, even if the miss the playoffs, he's safe this year. What it will do, though, is put him on the hot seat next year.

[K.C.]

Good game today. Hamels didn't have his best stuff but he showed the ability to pitch without it.

I like seeing Burrell white hot heading into a Mets series at Shea. Now if they'd just bring back Armando Benitez.

...eh, it's not like he doesn't do the same thing to Wagner he did to Benitez.

[cougarjake13]

Good game today. Hamels didn't have his best stuff but he showed the ability to pitch without it.

I like seeing Burrell white hot heading into a Mets series at Shea. Now if they'd just bring back Armando Benitez.

...eh, it's not like he doesn't do the same thing to Wagner he did to Benitez.

or most of the mets pitching staff, past and present

[K.C.]

or most of the mets pitching staff, past and present

Yeah but Benitez was the gold standard. Burrell was like 4-4 with four game winning HRs before Benitez actually got him out for the first time.

[K.C.]

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/040624/105837__bio_l.jpg

Ready?! OK!

Down, down, down! Mets are going down! Down, down, down! Mets are going down!



Or in honor of Ronnie B's latest story:

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolpolltool/dc-divas-cheerleaders

uh uh come-on-out, uh uh come-on-out, uh uh come-on-out

[Kris10]

Bring it!