2009 Season - Defending WS Champion Philadelphia Phillies Thread

[K.C.]

true but it really does mean nothing at this point

as the phils demonstrated last year

It means something in the sense that this is the first time quite a while the Phillies have gotten off to a decent start.

The last four years, amassed nice won-loss records outside of the month of April.

But yes, it doesn't really mean too much at this point, unless your a Padres fan, a Rockies fan, and maybe a Mariners fan.

[K.C.]

Spyreport, spyreport:

Gavin Floyd taking a no-hitter into the 8th.

Think the Phils wish he was back?

[cougarjake13]

It means something in the sense that this is the first time quite a while the Phillies have gotten off to a decent start.

The last four years, amassed nice won-loss records outside of the month of April.

But yes, it doesn't really mean too much at this point, unless your a Padres fan, a Rockies fan, and maybe a Mariners fan.



yeh it means something that theyre off to a good start

but to compare games in hand is usually reserved for the last month of reg season

[K.C.]

Yeah, lets walk Randy Johnson with the bases loaded.


EATONNNNNNNNN!

http://nuncscio.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/khan.jpg

[cougarjake13]

Yeah, lets walk Randy Johnson with the bases loaded.


EATONNNNNNNNN!

http://nuncscio.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/khan.jpg

nice !!!!

[scottinnj]

We're only down by one now. We'll come back.

[K.C.]

We're only down by one now. We'll come back.

Well, that couldn't have been said at a more awkward moment.

[scottinnj]

Uh-Oh.

[scottinnj]

Well, that couldn't have been said at a more awkward moment.

Yeah, my "MLB LIVE" boxscoring has a bit of lag time...........

[K.C.]

Yeah, my "MLB LIVE" boxscoring has a bit of lag time...........

Eh...no biggie...if the Phils go 4-3 on this trip, it's a success. Games on SportsNet, by the way...you don't get it with the Dish?

[scottinnj]

No I got the Directv. I'm getting screwed by Verizon on my DSL and cellphones right now. I may goto Comcast by the end of the summer to bundle cable, phone and internet, and switch to Sprint and dump Verizon Wireless.

It's not really their fault, it's mainly mine for letting family members other then my wife and kids have cellphones and internet access. I got hit with big fees because of some big mouths on my cellphones, but Verizon doesn't seem to want to help out.

[scottinnj]

Here's a question:

All Star Ballots are coming. If you were forced to vote for only one Phillies player, who would you go with?

Right Now I'd vote Utley.

[K.C.]

No I got the Directv. I'm getting screwed by Verizon on my DSL and cellphones right now. I may goto Comcast by the end of the summer to bundle cable, phone and internet, and switch to Sprint and dump Verizon Wireless.

It's not really their fault, it's mainly mine for letting family members other then my wife and kids have cellphones and internet access. I got hit with big fees because of some big mouths on my cellphones, but Verizon doesn't seem to want to help out.

Comcast blows. I still have it, but I don't want it.

But you will get all the games, so that's a plus.

I wish Comcast would start jerking around Verizon FiOS and just give them CN8. If they did, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

[K.C.]

Here's a question:

All Star Ballots are coming. If you were forced to vote for only one Phillies player, who would you go with?

Right Now I'd vote Utley.

It'd have to be Utley. The guy's the best player in baseball right now. Burrell deserves to make it this year, though, but I can see him getting snubbed in the voting.

Other than those two, maybe you get Hamels and Lidge added when they announce the pitchers.

[BoondockSaint]

No I got the Directv. I'm getting screwed by Verizon on my DSL and cellphones right now. I may goto Comcast by the end of the summer to bundle cable, phone and internet, and switch to Sprint and dump Verizon Wireless.


What about switching to FIOS? You can bundle internet, cable, phone and your cell phones. I have Fios Internet and phone and have not complaints. I'd take the cable too but they don't have the NFL package.

[K.C.]

What about switching to FIOS? You can bundle internet, cable, phone and your cell phones. I have Fios Internet and phone and have not complaints. I'd take the cable too but they don't have the NFL package.

Comcast owns the rights to the baseball, basketball and hockey coverage here.

They were forced to put Comcast SportsNet on FiOS, but they also own CN8 in this market (not sure if it's in other markets or not).

So they've started putting a lot of games on CN8 to screw over the FiOS defectors. For instance, SportsNet has carried all the Flyers and Sixers playoff games....every baseball game during the time one of those teams has been playing has been on CN8, meaning FiOS people have only seen a handful of games so far this season.

[cougarjake13]

my all star vote goes to dickie thon

[scottinnj]

Comcast owns the rights to the baseball, basketball and hockey coverage here.



Yeah, and I love my NASCAR, and loathe Comcast. Directv has a great NASCAR package, and Comcast has terrible customer service. But all bets are off if FIOS comes to Atlantic County. It's just not here yet.

[scottinnj]

I had a great Jason Werth Home Run post, but you'll have to go to the 2008 Presidential Election thread to see it.

Yes, I'm a douche. I'm jumping from Fox to CNN to MSNBC, I have the Phillies on MLB.com's live boxscoring, and am scanning ESPN to see if they are going to run the no-hitter.

I'm getting confused.

[BoondockSaint]

my all star vote goes to dickie thon

So, you are happy that a Met pitcher hit him in the face basically ruined his career?

[K.C.]

Howard got hosed on that strikeout. That fastball from Pena was above the letters.

[scottinnj]

I'm feeling much more confident about the Phils now that Shane is back. I'll be ecstatic when J-Roll is back for good.

[scottinnj]

Top of the ninth, and we're at the bottom of the lineup. Doesn't look good.

Edit: Yes RUIZ!!!!

"Get on board, little children, get on board, little children. Get on board, little children, there's room for many a more!"

[scottinnj]

OMG, they're killing me right now!

[scottinnj]

Nuts. They went down Phightin.

[K.C.]

Despite losing, I like what I saw.

They got down early, but chipped away...bullpen held the D-Backs to two hits after the fourth, had chances to win it in the 8th and 9th.

This team is playing good ball right now.


Looks like Rollins will be back Friday. Now if they can get Howard started, they'd be ready to go on a tear.

[K.C.]

Pete Happy!

Nice job making a game of this.

[K.C.]

Victorino is one hell of a gamer. Knock Conor Jackson out cold at first base, gets up, tries to steal second, scores from first on a double, all the while leaking blood from his forearm.

Bruntlett is playing awesome ball...he saved his best for the 10 days or so. Rollins should be back Friday.


And Ryan Howard...well, he's only on pace for over 230 strikeouts.

[scottinnj]

Nice! We'll at least split the series with the Dbacks. May is going to be a gooooood month for the Phils!

[scottinnj]

And Ryan Howard...well, he's only on pace for over 230 strikeouts.

Yeah, it's like he and Burrell traded bats after last season.

[K.C.]

Yeah, it's like he and Burrell traded bats after last season.

No, this is far, far, worse than any slump Burrell ever authored. And that's saying a lot.

[scottinnj]

Oh well. Like I said, at least they will be able to split the series with the Dbacks.

[BoondockSaint]

So Rollins rejoined the Phillies in San Francisco. Seems about right.

[scottinnj]

So Rollins rejoined the Phillies in San Francisco. Seems about right.

Yep. And we're gonna KICK ASS on SF tonight.
Cole is on the mound, and all the pieces are in place. It's just a matter of how many Ks Cole wants to rack up tonight.

[BoondockSaint]

Yep. And we're gonna LICK ASS on SF tonight.
Cole is anti-mound, and all the dicks are in place. It's just a matter of how many DICKs Cole wants to suck up tonight.


Agreed.

[K.C.]

Agreed.

Jealousyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy....night and day you....torture me.

[scottinnj]

Agreed.

Who's got Wagner's number? Oh yeah, Burrell, Victorino and J-Roll have Wagner's number.

[BoondockSaint]

Who's got Wagner's number? Oh yeah, Burrell, Victorino and J-Roll have Wagner's number.

Well, if Billy would stop writing it in every bathroom stall in every NL city then the Phil's would stop writing it down.

[scottinnj]

Well, if Billy would stop writing it in every bathroom stall in every NL city then the Phil's would stop writing it down.

:clap: :thumbup: :clap: :lol:

[scottinnj]

Another win for the Phils, and J-Roll coming back with a two run homer to tie up the game is awesome-showing everyone he came back ready to play! MVP!

[cougarjake13]

Who's got Wagner's number? Oh yeah, Burrell, Victorino and J-Roll have Wagner's number.

actually anyone who can see has his number, its right there on the back of his jersey

[K.C.]

Another win for the Phils, and J-Roll coming back with a two run homer to tie up the game is awesome-showing everyone he came back ready to play! MVP!

Rollins coming back like that was great sign.

By the way, as far as Brad Lidge goes:

17 inn, 0.00 ERA, 9 saves, 18 Ks

That would be the essence of lights out.

[Kris10]

I'm sooo happy J Rol is healthy again!!!! Lidge rocks!

[K.C.]

That is what we call pure dominance, out of Hamels tonight.

[Knowledged_one]

It cant hurt having Jimmy Rollins back and healthy

Burrells numbers should go up with him back

[scottinnj]

That is what we call pure dominance, out of Hamels tonight.

Damn Right. Two out of three against the Braves is always good. Hate the Braves.

Stupid Braves.

[PigShitIrish]

That is what we call pure dominance, out of Hamels tonight.

What do you think about Myers? Does the thought of trade even enter your mind? Do you ask other clubs what they're willing to offer, or do you stick it out with him? His fastball doesn't seem to be getting any better and he says that he is completely healthy. I don't get it!

[Kris10]

Tonight's game was awesome, Hamels was impressive, I'm glad he got the complete game--he pitched beautifully. Nice homer fest for us, Howards with back to back nights of homers, and that was a terrific defensive play by Rollins in the top of the 9th. I'm a little nervous about Moyer but hopefully he can turn things around and pitch some quality baseball.

Bring on the Jays!

[K.C.]

What do you think about Myers? Does the thought of trade even enter your mind? Do you ask other clubs what they're willing to offer, or do you stick it out with him? His fastball doesn't seem to be getting any better and he says that he is completely healthy. I don't get it!

No, you keep him right where he is.

You have to let him try and pitch through it. You could tolerate Myers' struggles more, if they'd cut the cord on Eaton and bring up Carrasco or Happ, but they refuse to do that, because they're holding out to give Kris Benson the first shot.

But Myers is in the rotation to stay.

The only way he goes back to the 'pen is if the Phils don't resign Lidge after this season...and to not resign Lidge would be a colossal failure.

[K.C.]

Seven RBI for Werth....annnnnnnnddd...it's only the 3rd inning.

[spadanko]

make it 3 HR and 8 RBIs... my Lord

[cougarjake13]

make it 3 HR and 8 RBIs... my Lord

bacon

[K.C.]

Flash Gordon now backing off his retirement talk from this offseason:

Retirement far from Gordon's mind
05/20/2008 8:50 PM ET
By Ken Mandel / MLB.com

WASHINGTON -- Reliever Tom Gordon has always taken pride in his longevity, and he smiled on Tuesday when told that Nationals Park would become the 45th venue in which he's pitched -- if he is handed the ball during the Phillies' three-game series with the Nationals.

With a list that includes two parks each in Arlington (Texas), Baltimore, Chicago (White Sox), Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, San Diego, Seattle and Toronto -- and the Tokyo Dome in Japan -- Gordon hasn't missed many. Adding a second park in Washington, D.C., will complete the circle further.

"That's a lot," Gordon said. "These ballparks are amazing to see, and being able to see the new places and how the game has changed -- that keeps you going."

Gordon is far from being finished, and at 40, he feels he still has miles left in his right shoulder. With new parks opening in New York for both the Mets and the Yankees next season, and facilities in Minnesota and Florida in the planning stages, the veteran reliever could add to his list.

"I have to wear the uniform once in new Yankee Stadium, and I don't plan on wearing it as a coach," Gordon said.

Gordon said he would settle for Citi Field, the Mets' new ballpark, if the Phillies retain him for next season. Philadelphia holds a $4.5 million option for 2009 and must decide on it within 15 days after the World Series.

While Gordon's ERA stands at 4.50, the veteran has posted a 2.04 ERA since allowing five runs on Opening Day. Since then, he's allowed runs in only three of his 19 outings.

"If he continues to pitch the way he is now and he stays healthy, we have to look at [bringing him back] very seriously," Phillies assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "As is always the case, we'll let it play out, then make a decision. A lot of it will depend on the makeup of the club next year."

With closer Brad Lidge possibly departing via free agency, keeping Gordon might seem to have added importance, since he can fill a setup or closing role. The most important thing for Gordon is his health, and he maintains that the offseason work on his right shoulder has him feeling good.

Going one year at a time is fine with Gordon.

"At the age I'm at, I think it's better to concentrate that way," Gordon said. "I don't want to put myself in a position where I can't do something. Right now, the strength I'm having is starting to pay off. I really like this organization. When I was [injured] last season, I could count on the Phillies for support. And I'll never rule out the Braves."

Speaking of the Braves, aside from never being part of a World Series-winning team, Gordon has one other regret -- not having pitched in Atlanta's Fulton-County Stadium. Gordon grew up in Florida and often watched the Braves on TBS, and he always pictured himself pitching for them -- with a tomahawk across his chest -- in that stadium.

Gordon spent each season from 1988-96 in the American League, and Turner Field replaced Fulton-County Stadium in 1997. He still thinks of Fulton-County Stadium when he drives by where it used to be.

Gordon lists Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium and Dodger Stadium as his favorites.

"When I first came up [in 1988], all the ballparks were big," Gordon said. "Some of them were boring baseball/football stadiums. The new parks are much better. The atmosphere is more exciting. I'm just blessed to have played in so many different places. Man, I must be getting up there."

You know, he's actually been pretty damn good excluding Opening Day...but given the nature of his shoulder, I'd have a hard time seeing them bring him back for another year.

The problem is that the Phillies are going to need bullpen arms in '09.

With Lidge a potential departure (even though it'd be f-ing crazy), and Madson showing to not be an effective late inning pitcher, the only back-end guys they'd have are J.C. Romero and Chad Durbin.

Most of their minor league pitching is starting pitching...they could conceivably move Myers yet again back in to the closing role, but Myers is not Lidge by any means.

Plus you need Myers next year more than ever with Moyer likely to retire.

I wouldn't mind seeing a pitching staff like:

#1 - Cole Hamels
#2 - Brett Myers
#3 - Carlos Carrasco
#4 - Kyle Kendrick
#5 - J.A. Happ/Antonio Bastardo

CL - Brad Lidge
SU - Chad Durbin
MR - J.C. Romero

[scottinnj]

Flash Gordon now backing off his retirement talk from this offseason:



You know, he's actually been pretty damn good excluding Opening Day...but given the nature of his shoulder, I'd have a hard time seeing them bring him back for another year.



Especially for 4.5 million dollars. That can buy a lot of good young pitching if spent wisely.

[scottinnj]

I just love the way they are beating the crap out of the Nats right now. Pitching change and Howard delivers with a walk off HR.

Everybody got a hit, and Moyer strikes out, so next time we're up the top of the order will start it all over again.

"Wham! A Homer! Wham! Another Homer! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM!"

Bugs Bunny rules

[tbagnu]

let's hope that this game propels howard out of his hitting funk! if so, watch out national league!!:thumbup:

[K.C.]

He's started coming around over the last week or so.

If the Phils are going to run off some games, they need Howard to keep swinging the bat well.
Plus, him hitting well again makes people start pitching a little more to Utley, which you hope gets him hot again.

[scottinnj]

He's started coming around over the last week or so.

If the Phils are going to run off some games, they need Howard to keep swinging the bat well.
Plus, him hitting well again makes people start pitching a little more to Utley, which you hope gets him hot again.

I'm not going to worry about Utley. He's got 32 RBIs and a double and triple tonight alone. I'm just sooooo glad Howard is thumping homers again. I just love that smile he gets when he knows its "outta here!"

[K.C.]

Yikes....Atlanta's trying to upstage them tonight.

It's going to be close for who posts the bigger number tonight....Phils on the Nats or Braves on the Mets.

Must be the power of Jeff Francoeur's new mullet.

[scottinnj]

Nice job tonight, one and all!

[K.C.]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_7qiflGyKIcA/RhFVl50oqjI/AAAAAAAAAcg/o38I3GKjm6Y/s400/burrell.bmp

That's for you Wesley Wright.



Little nervous if this game gets to Lidge...doesn't have the best track record in this stadium.

[K.C.]

Lights Out!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/jim1932/R-OkiPqbOaI/AAAAAAAABYM/iFaoeZjTKGg/d4df76af-f979-4d76-921e-7abc07567a9c.jpg



Ryan Howard is raking right now...good time to get hot.

[KingGeno]

I am hoping that Burrel, Rollins, and Utley start to heat back up. We'll see what happens.

I would really like to see Feliz heat up. He's due.

[scottinnj]

two out of three against the astros aint bad.

[Bossanova]

Look over your shoulders Phillie fans. That win today by te Mets marked something special. Oh its coming, its coming

[K.C.]

Look over your shoulders Phillie fans. That win today by te Mets marked something special. Oh its coming, its coming

Well, I learned something from it...Fernando Tatis is still in baseball....who knew.

[joethebartender]

Was in Philly today...drove around the ball parks and was really impressed. I hope that Citi Field looks half as good when it's complete. I also grabbed a steak at talk of the town across the way on Broad before the w.w.bridge...deeelicious!

[K.C.]

15 big ones today.

I'm looking forward to the series with Florida later this week. They need to be put in their place.

[K.C.]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/482/philliesmq9.jpg

Beat.Down.

[K.C.]

I have to say this was cracking me up.

Chris Wheeler glossary (http://chriswheelerglossary.com/)

He's the biggest tool ever.

[scottinnj]

I have to say this was cracking me up.

Chris Wheeler glossary (http://chriswheelerglossary.com/)

He's the biggest tool ever.

Hee Hee Hee!

Whitey... - Phillies legendary player and broadcaster that I can now talk about because he's dead

[K.C.]

Kendrick's starting to round into shape. Fifth quality start in his last six.

Plus, I think Mitch Williams threw out a stat tonight like the Phils are 7-2 or 8-2 in his starts, meaning he's keeping them in games.



I'm really starting to like what I'm seeing out of this team. Outside of the big three (Rollins, Utley, Howard), Pedro Feliz has really been a godsend.

The guy plays almost perfect defense, and has really come on with the bat.


The team also has the best bullpen ERA in baseball.

Really, the only thing holding them back from getting on a tear is getting a little more consistency out of Myers' and Eaton's spot in the rotation. I'm not too worried about Myers yet...Eaton is Eaton. I guess the good news there is that Benson's rehab is coming along pretty well.

[hexy68]

this wknd vs. Fla will be a good test for the Phils right now...first place could be at stake

[KingGeno]

True dat. Gonna be an interesting weekend. The stinkin' Mets are mixing it up with the Dodgers, whom have a similar record.

Let's hope this crazy hitting streak stays together, although I believe history proves otherwise.

[K.C.]

Jenkins and Feliz are really starting to come alive lately. Jenkins' nice run couldn't have been better timed with Werth hitting the DL.

Chance to grab sole possession of first this weekend. I like the pitching match-ups with Florida for this series. Hopefully the bats don't go cold with the day off tomorrow.

[TheMojoPin]

Forgot to thank your boys for thumping those damn Astros like that.

Thank you.

[PigShitIrish]

Meyers better show up big time tonight!

[K.C.]

http://www.iue.edu/blogs/barry/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/first-place-blue-ribbon.gif


Stadium was rocking tonight....Myers pitched fantastic after the 1st. I left a little early because I have graduation tomorrow, but didn't miss much, when was 11-3 at the time of my departure.

[K.C.]

So the Phillies are 32-24.

To hit Rollins' prediction of 100 wins, they'd have to go 68-38 over the final 106 games, which rounds to a .630 clip.

Today was Game 56...after Game 56 in 2007, the Phillies went 61-45, which translates to .575 ball.

So to hit Rollins' magic number of 100, they basically have to improve seven games from last season's summer into fall.



I think the 2008 team is much better than the 2007 team, but it's still quite a task. They basically have to win close to 2 out of every 3 from here on out with no lull.

I really don't see that happening. But even if they hit the 61-45 mark they did last season, that puts them at 93 wins, which a four game improvement and should be enough to win the division the way the NL East looks this year.

So basically, if they duplicate last year, with no improvement or faltering, they'll be fine.

[hammersavage]

I hate everything and everyone from Philadelphia ever, but Chase Utley is ok.

He may not be the God but he is a God. scary...

[K.C.]

I hate everything and everyone from Philadelphia ever, but Chase Utley is ok.

He may not be the God but he is a God. scary...

Well, he single-handedly won the game tonight with his offense and his defense.

Utley's the all-around talent, Rollins is the leader, Howard's the thunder....it's a good combo.

[K.C.]

From Sunday's game:

Tom Gordon walked the first batter he faced in the eighth, but after a quick pep talk from Jimmy Rollins - "Throw strikes, Babe Ruth's dead," the MVP shortstop told him - he retired the final three batters he faced. That set up another dominant ninth inning from Brad Lidge, who struck out two of the three batters he faced and recorded his 13th save.

:lol:

I like Jimmy Rollins: Life Coach.

[scottinnj]

http://www.iue.edu/blogs/barry/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/first-place-blue-ribbon.gif


Stadium was rocking tonight....Myers pitched fantastic after the 1st. I left a little early because I have graduation tomorrow, but didn't miss much, when was 11-3 at the time of my departure.

Damn Straight! And I can't believe I was rooting for the fucking Braves tonight. Way to go to give us a 1.5 game advantage over those stupid Marlins.

[hammersavage]

Yeah, i read the Rollins quote and I loved it! Reminded me of Pedro's drilling the Bambino in the ass comment a few years back.

[Soupy_Dreck]

brad lidge is everything he was hyped to be. maybe all he needed was a little knee surgery to get back to being "lights out" lidge

[K.C.]

Damn Straight! And I can't believe I was rooting for the fucking Braves tonight. Way to go to give us a 1.5 game advantage over those stupid Marlins.

Ask and you shall receive.


Although, I've been rooting for the Marlins against the Braves and Mets. I want both those teams buried. The Phillies have 16 left versus Florida...I have a feeling they can take care of that.

[K.C.]

10 over .500 with tonight's win.

Team is playing fantastic...and another solid start from Eaton.

[Kris10]

Eaton rocked tonight, too bad Utley couldn't hit another HR but its ok. I expected more offense tonight but you can't be awesome every game, a win is a win and we are 2.5 up on the Fish and 3.5 up on the Braves.

A lil frightened about Griffey if he starts tomorrow, I don't want to be the club he hits #600 off of....

[K.C.]

Ouch!

John Smoltz, SP ATL
News: The Braves have scheduled an 11:30 a.m. ET news conference Wednesday at Turner Field and at that time, they are expected to discuss Smoltz's future. There has been talk that he will need to undergo season-ending surgery on his right shoulder, according to MLB.com.

Big blow to the Braves if true.

[Knowledged_one]

im glad that i have Rollins and Burrell on my fantasy team they are killin for me

[K.C.]

What a waste of a great pitching performance by Myers...Voloquez is devastating, though.

I got a pretty good view of him at the park tonight...he had most of those hitters completely off balance.

He's got a chance to be the next big thing.

[Towelie]

Always nice to see Myers blow a no-hitter, a shutout and a win all on one pitch.

Mrs. Myers better look out, she's going catch a beating tonight.

[spadanko]

What a waste of a great pitching performance by Myers...Voloquez is devastating, though.

I got a pretty good view of him at the park tonight...he had most of those hitters completely off balance.

He's got a chance to be the next big thing.

Volquez is fucking disgusting

[Towelie]

Volquez is fucking disgusting

Talk about a win-win trade.

Josh Hamilton is pushing for a triple crown and Volquez would be the Cy Young front runner if he was on a better team

[K.C.]

Always nice to see Myers blow a no-hitter, a shutout and a win all on one pitch.

Mrs. Myers better look out, she's going catch a beating tonight.

Yeah...he's no Ollie Perez.

Wow, you guys made it ALL the way up to 3rd place tonight? Talk about your overachievers!

[K.C.]

Volquez is fucking disgusting

Up to a few weeks ago, a bunch of scouts were still saying Homer Bailey was a better prospect than both Volquez and Johnny Cueto, for the Reds.

They have to be backing off that now.

Volquez is nasty...he'll be fantastic until Dusty pitches his arm off.

Nobody knows ruining young pitchers like Dusty Baker.

[K.C.]

McNabb connects at Phillies' BP
06/04/2008 7:23 PM ET
By Kevin Horan / MLB.com

PHILADELPHIA -- The Phillies' manager, hitting coach and home-run leader paused during batting practice Wednesday and watched a hitter who said he hadn't swung in the batting cage since eighth grade.

Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb visited Citizens Bank Park and took a few turns in the batting cage. Fully decked out in a red Phillies batting-practice jersey, hat and long sleeves -- he's used to football weather -- McNabb attracted a crowd that included manager Charlie Manuel, hitting coach Milt Thompson and several players.

McNabb also talked hitting with Chase Utley, who leads the Major Leagues with 21 home runs.

"I told Chase, I'm not one of those guys who gets upset when they don't hit the ball," McNabb said. "What I am is a guy who can get on base, however that is. I might bunt all the time. I don't know. But I respect what they do."

Though he didn't hit every offering from batting practice pitcher Rob Potts, McNabb made consistent contact, putting the ball in play with a mix of sharp grounders and line drives.

His best shot was a one-hopper that cleared the park's outfield fence.

"In Little League, that's gone, and in some softball leagues, that's gone, too," McNabb said.

The real highlight for McNabb, and the reason for his trip to Citizens Bank Park, was getting to meet Reds outfielder Ken Griffey Jr., a player the quarterback has admired for many years. The two exchanged signed jerseys.

"I'm framing it," McNabb said. "He's something special. I was in awe meeting Griffey and tried to hide it. Just to have a conversation with him and him to know something about me was big."

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

I can imagine the outcry McNabb had torked his back, or planted his foot wrong and tore an ACL.

[spadanko]

what happened to rollins? i saw he was taken out, but don't see anywhere why

[K.C.]

what happened to rollins? i saw he was taken out, but don't see anywhere why

Sounds like he just got sick.

Maybe hanging out with McNabb last night, he caught that 'bug' that made D-Mac throw up during the Super Bowl a few years back.

[hexy68]

Sounds like he just got sick.

Maybe hanging out with McNabb last night, he caught that 'bug' that made D-Mac throw up during the Super Bowl a few years back.

i hope his foot isn't acting up...no success at the plate last night either

[spadanko]

According to Scott Lauber from the News Journal, Phillies SS Jimmy Rollins was pulled after the fourth inning after not running hard on a pop fly to shallow left field in the third.

Lauber writes, “It seems highly unlikely that Charlie Manuel would pull the reigning NL MVP for lack of hustle, but thus far, we’ve received no status report on any possible injuries. Typically, when a player is injured, we receive an update a few innings later.”

By the way, in searching for an image of Rollins, I stumbled upon his webpage, JimmyRollins.com, which, when the page loads, greets you with a song that sings, “M.V.P., the most valuable, M.V.P., oh, so infallible, M.V.P.”

[K.C.]

According to Scott Lauber from the News Journal, Phillies SS Jimmy Rollins was pulled after the fourth inning after not running hard on a pop fly to shallow left field in the third.

Lauber writes, “It seems highly unlikely that Charlie Manuel would pull the reigning NL MVP for lack of hustle, but thus far, we’ve received no status report on any possible injuries. Typically, when a player is injured, we receive an update a few innings later.”

By the way, in searching for an image of Rollins, I stumbled upon his webpage, JimmyRollins.com, which, when the page loads, greets you with a song that sings, “M.V.P., the most valuable, M.V.P., oh, so infallible, M.V.P.”


This on Philly.com

Rollins Benched?

What happened to Jimmy Rollins today?

He hit a pop fly into shallow left field with two outs and a runner on second in the third inning this afternoon at Citizens Bank Park. Reds shortstop Paul Janish dropped the ball to allow Carlos Ruiz to score from second. Rollins only got to first. He should have been on second.

Rollins took the field in the top of the fourth inning, but was gone by the top of the fifth. Was he pulled from the game? Is he injured? Some other reason? No injury has been reported yet, so we'll find out after the game what's up.

I really would have a hard time believing Charlie Manuel would bench him...something has to be wrong. Could be sick...could have reinjured himself.

Who knows.

[spadanko]

I agree... I don't see Charlie pulling him.

[K.C.]

Apparently they said on the broadcast that Manuel did indeed bench him for not running out the play.

Rollins is all smiles in the dugout, though...so I'm guessing it's one of those things where Charlie pointed out to him that he doesn't always run out balls at some point a couple weeks ago, and told him he was going to take him out next time it happened.

[hexy68]

another complete game win for Cole :clap: ...pitching is really looking good lately :thumbup:

[K.C.]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/john_donovan/09/28/friday.matchups/p1.hamels.jpg

And that's the end of our show, donk!

[KingGeno]

Apparently they said on the broadcast that Manuel did indeed bench him for not running out the play.

Rollins is all smiles in the dugout, though...so I'm guessing it's one of those things where Charlie pointed out to him that he doesn't always run out balls at some point a couple weeks ago, and told him he was going to take him out next time it happened.

Really? Wow. I gotta tell ya, he has seemed out of it since coming back from the injury. His fielding and batting have been weak sauce. Maybe I just didn't ever notice him not running plays out, but I figured that he was still injured or being apprehensive of his injury.

That's complete bullshit. Howard is out there swinging like he doesn't give a shit either. Both of those assholes better start picking it up.

[BoondockSaint]

Could you guys cool down a bit? Thanks.

[Kris10]

Anthony Hewitt is a good pick!!! I think we did ok as long as he doesn't go with Vanderbilt.

[K.C.]

Charlie Manuel didn't say much about his decision to bench Jimmy Rollins in the top of the fifth inning after the MVP shortstop jogged out a fly ball that ended up being dropped by Reds shortstop Paul Janish. But Rollins accepted responsibility afterwards, and said there was no ill-will between he and his manager.

"It's my fault. I can't get mad at him," Rollins said. "That's like breaking the law and getting mad that the police show up."

Rollins was batting with two out in the third when he popped a ball up to shallow left field. Janish ran back to make the catch, but the ball popped out of his glove, allowing Carlos Ruiz to score from second.

"There is no explanation," Rollins said. "I just didn't do it. It happens every once in awhile. Sometimes your manager gets you."

And there in a nutshell is the difference between the Phillies and the Mets.

Manager benches the MVP...player takes responsibility...vows to correct the mistake. End of the issue. That is team solidarity.


Willie ought to take note next time Reyes boots an easy ball because he's not paying attention. But then again, half that Mets clubhouse would bitch about being benched, and throw Willie under the bus.

[BoondockSaint]

And there in a nutshell is the difference between the Phillies and the Mets.

Manager benches the MVP...player takes responsibility...vows to correct the mistake. End of the issue. That is team solidarity.


Willie ought to take note next time Reyes boots an easy ball because he's not paying attention. But then again, half that Mets clubhouse would bitch about being benched, and throw Willie under the bus.

Um, here's the quote from Reyes after Willie pulled him for not running out a ball last year.

Reyes took responsibility for the mistake. "I thought the ball was going to be foul, but you still have to run," he said. "It's my fault there.

Yeah, I see the huge difference.

[K.C.]

Um, here's the quote from Reyes after Willie pulled him for not running out a ball last year.



Yeah, I see the huge difference.

And yet he still makes some very bad mental mistakes.

[BoondockSaint]

And yet he still makes some very bad mental mistakes.

And now Rollins never will again?

[K.C.]

And now Rollins never will again?

Ok, I'll let you decide it then...after all, you watch that team more than I do.

Do you really think players on that team are giving their all for their manager, and are united in that clubhouse?

Because everything I hear and see is to the contrary.


But like I said, I don't watch them every night, so maybe my perception is wrong.

But the general impression I get is that that Mets team, while maybe more talented on paper, is not nearly as mentally tough as the Phils.

And that incidents like this would present more of a problem for them.

[Towelie]

Clubhouse unity is probably # 3 on my list of stupid excuses for not being a successful team.

#1 being "heart" and #2 being "guts"

Who cares if they get along off the field, as long as they get it done on the field.

I guess the Phillies clubhouse unity and mental toughness completely disappeared after game 162 last year

And lets not forget, Rolliins is 5 years older then Reyes, kid is still only 24 years old,

[K.C.]

Clubhouse unity is probably # 3 on my list of stupid excuses for not being a successful team.

#1 being "heart" and #2 being "guts"

Who cares if they get along off the field, as long as they get it done on the field.

I guess the Phillies clubhouse unity and mental toughness completely disappeared after game 162

You're right to an extent, but if the clubhouse wasn't an important part of baseball, then why did 29 teams pass on Josh Hamilton when it would have cost them $50,000 to pick up the rights to him?

Why weren't teams clamoring for the likes of Elijah Dukes, when Tampa dealt him, he was arguably one of the most talented prospects around?

They fear things that can divide or poison a clubhouse.

There absolutely is something to intangibles in baseball.

You're right...people use the 'heart' excuse too much in explanations. But you yourself have said numerous times that the Mets are MUCH more talented than the Phillies.

So if it's all about talent...how do you explain the last year or so of baseball (first half of this season, last half of last season)?

[BoondockSaint]

Ok, I'll let you decide it then...after all, you watch that team more than I do.

Do you really think players on that team are giving their all for their manager, and are united in that clubhouse?

Because everything I hear and see is to the contrary.


But like I said, I don't watch them every night, so maybe my perception is wrong.

But the general impression I get is that that Mets team, while maybe more talented on paper, is not nearly as mentally tough as the Phils.

And that incidents like this would present more of a problem for them.

Did you think that of the Phils when they were off to another slow start last year and everybody was yelling for Manuels head? When teams are winning they look great and unified and when they are losing they look bad.

But I think you're original point was that Willie would never pull Reyes from a game for being lazy and he did.

[K.C.]

Did you think that of the Phils when they were off to another slow start last year and everybody was yelling for Manuels head? When teams are winning they look great and unified and when they are losing they look bad.

But I think you're original point was that Willie would never pull Reyes from a game for being lazy and he did.

If you're trying to catch me on one, the Manuel one isn't the way to do it.

I'm one of the few that can say they've been behind Manuel pretty much since he got here.


I was wrong about Willie never pulling Reyes. But I don't get the impression, at least from this season, that if Willie made a move to send a message to his team like Manuel did today, that the team would have his back.

Again, I could be wrong...I don't watch that team everyday. But that's the general buzz about that Mets team right now, right or wrong. Maybe it's a media distortion.

[K.C.]

By the way, on a side note...

Everyone who trashes Philadelphia fans, and lists the number of 'incidents.'

See how much publicity the Philadelphia fan treatment of Griffey this series makes the news. They treated him like he was a god. Griffey was literally just on local TV looking a little misty eyed when talking about it.

It won't get any pub. But the next time some drunk Kensington asshole fires a flare gun at a rightfielder...that'll be news for weeks.

[BoondockSaint]

If you're trying to catch me on one, the Manuel one isn't the way to do it.

I'm one of the few that can say they've been behind Manuel pretty much since he got here.


I was wrong about Willie never pulling Reyes. But I don't get the impression, at least from this season, that if Willie made a move to send a message to his team like Manuel did today, that the team would have his back.

Again, I could be wrong...I don't watch that team everyday. But that's the general buzz about that Mets team right now, right or wrong. Maybe it's a media distortion.

I'm not trying to catch you in anything. My point was when a team underachieves as much as the Mets did this year and the end of last year and the Phils did the beginning of last year, it tends to look like it's total chaos. It's never as bad as it looks and never as good either.

And how do you know how the team is going to react to Manuel's move? They're hot and they won the game today so I doubt the team will react badly but will he do it when the team is slumping? Then what would the the team's reaction be when Rollins' slot comes up in the 9th with the game on the line and the backup strikes out? I have no idea but I bet the media makes it sound disastrous.

[Towelie]

You're right to an extent, but if the clubhouse wasn't an important part of baseball, then why did 29 teams pass on Josh Hamilton when it would have cost them $50,000 to pick up the rights to him?

Why weren't teams clamoring for the likes of Elijah Dukes, when Tampa dealt him, he was arguably one of the most talented prospects around?

Everyone passed on Hamilton because the guy hadn't played any level near pro ball in over five years.

And when you're a suicidal heroin addict, its pretty tough for anyone to believe that you want relapse again, especially with all the money and temptation that comes with being on an MLB team.

As far as Dukes goes teams didn't want to touch him due to his the bad off the field publicity he would bring to their franchises. None of his incidents were baseball related, and there was never any reports of the guy being a "bad teammate", hes just a fuck up and teams don't want to deal with that anymore.

As long as they can perform on the field it doesn't matter if you field a half neo-nazi, half hadisic jewish team, they will win if they can put together the baseball aspect of their lives.

But you yourself have said numerous times that the Mets are MUCH more talented than the Phillies.

So if it's all about talent...how do you explain the last year or so of baseball (first half of this season, last half of last season)?

Injuries, injuries and injuries. No Pedro, no Alou, losses of Church and Castillo for extended periods of times, ect.

That and Aaron Heilman. Always gotta blame Aaron Heilman.

[spadanko]

And yet he still makes some very bad mental mistakes.

yet he is still 5 years younger then rollins

[spadanko]

By the way, on a side note...

Everyone who trashes Philadelphia fans, and lists the number of 'incidents.'

See how much publicity the Philadelphia fan treatment of Griffey this series makes the news. They treated him like he was a god. Griffey was literally just on local TV looking a little misty eyed when talking about it.

It won't get any pub. But the next time some drunk Kensington asshole fires a flare gun at a rightfielder...that'll be news for weeks.


my buddy, a mets fan, was at the game today and said the fans were great to griffey

[scottinnj]

I think Manuel took him out for "dogging" it to first base on that pop fly that got dropped. It's something I would have done, just jogged until the catch was made, but I don't play professional ball either.
Manuel took him out because he's Rollins, the dropped ball would have guaranteed him second base if he had been legging it out. Plus it sets a tone-if Manuel is willing to bench the NL MVP, everyone on the team better watch their Ps and Qs.

And Charlie has been doing a pretty good job this year with the lineup, and managing the club overall. He's done a lot better then even last year. IMO

[K.C.]

yet he is still 5 years younger then rollins

Yet Rollins is better.

[BoondockSaint]

Yet Rollins is better.


At the same age? no.

[K.C.]

At the same age? no.

Age would be the only reason to take Reyes over Rollins right now.

Even so...it's not like Rollins is 37 years old.

If I'm a team building for the future, you take Reyes on potential, but if you're a team looking to win now, you take Rollins.

[spadanko]

Yet Rollins is better.


Well, take a look at rollins numbers at the age of 24. I am not saying rollins is not good, he is a great player, but i ahte when people bash reyes for not being as good when he is still elarning the game

[BoondockSaint]

Age would be the only reason to take Reyes over Rollins right now.

Even so...it's not like Rollins is 37 years old.

If I'm a team building for the future, you take Reyes on potential, but if you're a team looking to win now, you take Rollins.

Exactly. Now, just agree that Utley is hot right now but Castillo has a chance to match him by the end of year.

[K.C.]

Well, take a look at rollins numbers at the age of 24. I am not saying rollins is not good, he is a great player, but i ahte when people bash reyes for not being as good when he is still elarning the game

He's essentially played four seasons (his first two are halves) and is closing in on the halfway point of his fifth.

So yeah, while he's still very young, he does have credible MLB experience.

And I'm not the biggest believer in the "If he's done this at 24...what'll he do at 30?"

Andruw Jones is the poster child for how counting on getting better with age can go wrong. Broke in at 19...now plays like he's 45.

[K.C.]

Exactly. Now, just agree that Utley is hot right now but Castillo has a chance to match him by the end of year.

Oh, that goes without saying.

Castillo will easily leave Utley in the dust in HRs, RBI, and so forth.

[BoondockSaint]

Oh, that goes without saying.

Castillo will easily leave Utley in the dust in HRs, RBI, and so forth.


FACE!

[Towelie]

Yet Rollins is better.

Odd, Reyes seems to be the one with the better career OPS+, the better career batting average, and the better career OBP.

Reyes has better plate disipline (as evidence by their K:BB totals) is the better baserunner, and the better defender

So Rollins hit a few homers in a band box and it makes him the better player?

Whatever you say. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

[K.C.]

Odd, Reyes seems to be the one with the better career OPS+, the better career batting average, and the better career OBP.

Reyes has better plate disipline (as evidence by their K:BB totals) is the better baserunner, and the better defender

So Rollins hit a few homers in a band box and it makes him the better player?

Whatever you say. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

-Reyes has never crossed the 200 hit barrier in a season, Rollins has twice.
-Reyes has never hit more than 20 HRs in a season, Rollins has twice.
-Reyes has never gone 30/30 or 30/40...Rollins has
-Reyes has never won a gold glove, Rollins has.
-Reyes has stolen more than 85% of attempted steals just once...Rollins has three times.
-Reyes has never won an MVP, Rollins has.
-Both guys have hit in the leadoff spot predominately in their career, Reyes has never driven in more than 90, Rollins has.

Rollns averages more hits, more RBI, more HR, better SB%, better slugging%, more runs scored, better fielding%, and has won more hardware.

Yet...you seem to think that because Reyes has a career OPS of .99 and Rollins has one at .98...that .01 makes all the difference.

Typical Baseball Prospectus BS.


Just give credit where it's due. It doesn't make you any less of a Met fan to acknowledge what the statistics bear out at this point. And it doesn't mean Reyes won't be an all-around better player at some point in the future.

[K.C.]

And actually, my favorite number of the night is 5 1/2.

[Towelie]

-Reyes has never crossed the 200 hit barrier in a season, Rollins has twice.

You call me out for saying Reyes has a better OPS and you post those stats? Jesus Christ.

Reyes has had seasons of 190+ hits 3 straight years...Including last year, where he was absent from reality for nearly 3 months

-Reyes has never hit more than 20 HRs in a season, Rollins has twice.

18 at CBP in 2007 and 15 in 2006.

So throw that argument out the window. Or you can say that Reyes has 8 homers in 160 AB's at CBP in his career, or one per every 20 ABs. Stretch that out over 82 games or roughly 350 ABs and Reyes would hit about 18 there. I'm sure he'd get the other two.

-Reyes has never gone 30/30 or 30/40...Rollins has

-Both guys have hit in the leadoff spot predominately in their career, Reyes has never driven in more than 90, Rollins has.



You're numbers are all basically basing Rollins one career season last year:

Number of 200 hit seasons for Rollins? 1 in 2007.

Number of 30/30 and 30/40 seasons for Rollins? 1 in 2007.

Number of 90 RBI seasons for Rollins? 1 in 2007.

Lets, see who has a better career BA with RISP? Reyes. RISP with 2 outs? Oh lookie...Jose has the higher BA.

-Reyes has never won a gold glove, Rollins has.

Gold Gloves are just a stupid argument and you know it (which a terrible way to judge a fielder, Derek Jeter has 3 gold gloves and is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball)

In their respective zone ratings: Reyes was # 2 in baseball, Rollins was 12th

Which basically means, Reyes covers more ground and in turn makes more plays then every SS in baseball besides Omar Vizquel. And still Rollins had triple the fielding errors that Reyes had last year.

Lets not even comparing throwing arms, it would just be embarrassing.

-Reyes has stolen more than 85% of attempted steals just once...Rollins has three times.

Do you know why Rollins has a higher SB has? Because Rollins has 316 attempts in his 9 year career, while Reyes has 318 in his 6 year career. Hmmm...A guy who tries to steal more has a lower SB success rate then someone who tries less? Fucking shocking.

Rickey Henderson has a career success rate at 80.7%. Do you know why? Because he was attempted to steal about 100 times a year. Odds say that sheer luck will be him occasionally.

Reyes has 3 straight 60+ SB seasons, Rollins hasn't topped 46 in his career. His 78 last year were the most since 92. And lets not forget how many errors Reyes has forced on rushed throws and missed pickoff attempts. His speed changes the game more then any player in the game.

Jose Reyes is the bar none the best basestealer in baseball. Its undebatable at this point.

-Reyes has never won an MVP, Rollins has.

Another dumb argument. The MVP award. Besides the fact that Rollins was one of the worst offensive MVP in the history of the NL (.875 OPS), and completely undeserving of the award (His OPS was the 5th best on his own team), the press isn't close to be the best judges of talent on the field.

23rd in OPS last year, not even in the top 10 of the guys who played in the NL playoffs, not even the best at his own position.

Is Miguel Tejada a better SS then Derek Jeter because he has an MVP and Jeter doesnt? Is Juan Gonzalez a better OFer then Manny Ramirez because he never won an MVP?

Rollns averages more hits, more RBI, more HR, better SB%, better slugging%, more runs scored, better fielding%, and has won more hardware.

Lets see, Rollins doesn't average more hits then Reyes over 162 games (Why do you think Reyes has a better career batting average?)

Over a 162 game season or 685 AB's Rollins averages three more homers and four more RBI's....SEASON CHANGING!!!

Reyes averages more triples, stolen bases, less strikeouts, a better AVG, and a better OBP.

And no, Rollins does not average more runs. Reyes averages 114, and Rollins averages 111.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/reyesjo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rolliji01.shtml

Its not that difficult to look these things up.

And as far as fielding percentage goes, Reyes has a better lgFP and a better lgRf, which accounts for the fact that Reyes gets to so many more balls then Rollins does. Basically that means Rollins has less errors because he doesn't get to as many balls as Reyes does.

To make it even easier for you, more chances = more likelihood for errors, but 98 times out of 100 they will make the play if they get to the ball.

Yet...you seem to think that because Reyes has a career OPS of .99 and Rollins has one at .98...that .01 makes all the difference.

Typical Baseball Prospectus BS.

Yes, BP is a terrible judge at player talent and its all bullshit.

Odd really, the guy who was the innovator of everything BP does, Bill James got hired by the Red Sox in 2003.

Shame really how fucking terrible the Red Sox have been in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008.

What was it again? Two world titles and four playoff appearances (and on their way to a fifth)

I'm sure Theo and Henry really regret buying into BP.

[K.C.]

I have to question whether you actually read some of the stuff you write. So let me recap:
-No statistics at Citizens Bank Park counts. Hmmm....well, I'll make you a deal. You come to South Philly and start laying the concrete foundation for The Vet Part 2, and then we'll talk.
-No baseball award counts.
-You are a better judge of talent than 85% of people who cover baseball.
-The quality of a player is determined by these statistics: OPS, lgFP, lgRf.

Ridiculous.


The last thing I'll say in on BP. Baseball Prospectus provides a nice framework for players, but it tells you absolutely nothing about a player's potential (or lack there of) going forward. If a pitcher has an average year because of sporadic mechanics *cough*OliverPerez*cough*, you can breakdown everything about that season through Sabermetrics.

What you absolutely cannot tell is the 'why' of that equation. So let's say someone signs him based on the belief that if they fix his mechanics, he'll go from average to very good, and they do just that. There would have been absolutely no way to project that through Sabermetrics.

Again, it's a nice framework for WHAT happened...and in that sense its useful. It does not provide a framework for WHY those things did happen.

So forgive me for not kneeling at the alter of Bill James.

[K.C.]

And actually I have one more question.

Since offensive statistics are SO off the charts and invalid at Citizens Bank Park...that must mean for Cole Hamels to have an ERA only 0.28 higher than Johan Santana, he must really be leaps and bounds better than Santana.

I accept your endorsement of Cole Hamels as the best pitcher in the NL East. Thanks for your support, Towelie!!

[Towelie]

And actually I have one more question.

Since offensive statistics are SO off the charts and invalid at Citizens Bank Park...that must mean for Cole Hamels to have an ERA only 0.28 higher than Johan Santana, he must really be leaps and bounds better than Santana.

I accept your endorsement of Cole Hamels as the best pitcher in the NL East. Thanks for your support, Towelie!!

Thats why they invented ERA+, which neutralizes the effect of the home and road splits.

And who has a better ERA plus? Santana.

[KingGeno]

Rollins is the better player and leader. You silly if you think otherwise. Funny how Mets fans have to come in the Phillies thread to feel a sense of accomplishment.

Big win for the Phils last night. Don't like that we had to rely on an error for it, but I will take it.

[Towelie]

Rollins is the better player and leader. You silly if you think otherwise. Funny how Mets fans have to come in the Phillies thread to feel a sense of accomplishment.

There is so no sense of accomplishment here.

And no, Rollins isn't the better player. The better homerun hitter? I'll give you that. After that, he doesn't really do anything on the field better then Reyes.

And he's 5 years older.

[tbagnu]

one thing rollins has going for him is that he is THE sparkplug for the national league east division champions!! reyes is not!!..end of discussion....:clap:

[Towelie]

one thing rollins has going for him is that he is THE sparkplug for the national league east division champions!! reyes is not!!..end of discussion....:clap:

Career Division Titles:

Reyes-1
Rollins-1

Career Playoff Wins:

Reyes-6
Rollins-0

[K.C.]

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3230/121295677750537ab2.jpg

Braves...OUT of commission!

[K.C.]

The one thing I love about this team this year, although we did see some of it last season, too, is that even in games they lose, they're in them up until the final out.

Tonight's a loss you can stomach...they fell behind, battled back, Jorge Cantu made two nice plays on Victorino's last two ABs to rob him both times...what are you going to do? Those are games you lose during the course of the year, because that's baseball.



Now, the thing that concerns me is that Brett Myers is easily the weakest link of that rotation right now. I thought he was coming around, but he regressed tonight. I was with him riding it out, but there's not a ton of improvement, so I'm getting concerned.


It'd be nice if they could grab two of three in Florida. That would give the Phils a nice five game lead and some breathing room. And given the Braves (injured and playing the hottest team in baseball) and Mets (drawing Webb and Haren the next two days) tough schedule, they have a chance to really bury those teams in the next week if all goes right.

[K.C.]

Well....this is coming off the tracks.

Honestly....Flash can't even throw a strike to Wes fucking Helms?

[PigShitIrish]

He looked fucking lost on the mound. This is making me sick.

[scottinnj]

That ended badly.

[PigShitIrish]

Up 2-0 right now in the 6th, all because of a wild pitch by Olsen. Couldn't have happened to a nicer asshole.

[K.C.]

Up 2-0 right now in the 6th, all because of a wild pitch by Olsen. Couldn't have happened to a nicer asshole.

The fact that they scored two on that is a testament to how fast Victorino is. And yes, Olsen's an asshole.


Awesome game by Moyer...for everyone who wants to say the Phillies can't pitch, the guy is now 7-3 with a 4.12 ERA.

And a good thing the Phils won't have to deal with Lidge vs. Pujols next series, with Pujols being out.

[Kevin]

The fact that they scored two on that is a testament to how fast Victorino is. And yes, Olsen's an asshole.


Awesome game by Moyer...for everyone who wants to say the Phillies can't pitch, the guy is now 7-3 with a 4.12 ERA.

And a good thing the Phils won't have to deal with Lidge vs. Pujols next series, with Pujols being out.

If i were Lidge, i would drill the fake age bastard the 1st time i see him.

No way he is whatever age he says he is.

[K.C.]

If i were Lidge, i would drill the fake age bastard the 1st time i see him.

No way he is whatever age he says he is.

Better drill him than throw him any pitches...we all know how that turns out.

[K.C.]

A back to back...and a belly to belly!

FU John Sterling.

[K.C.]

A back to back...and a belly to belly!

FU John Sterling.


A back to back to BACK!!

And a belly to belly to belly!


...FU John Sterling.

[midwestjeff]

FU Chase Utley/Ryan Howard/Pat Burrell.

Here! Here!

[Bossanova]

Fuck the Phillies for not re-signing Wagner

[K.C.]

Fuck the Phillies for not re-signing Wagner

According to Billy, one of the reasons he couldn't play in Philadelphia anymore was he didn't like that the fans would boo him when he didn't hit 100 MPH on his fastball.

It was a joke, Billy!!!...Wagner was one of the most popular guys on that team with the fans (up until the end when he just wouldn't shut up and kept blowing games) and he never realized it.

[spadanko]

can you guys stop hitting HRs.. my lord

[K.C.]

can you guys stop hitting HRs.. my lord

They stopped.

But they also scored four more runs.

[K.C.]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1274/philliesbd4.jpg

Soooo...can someone explain to me again how the Phillies offense is a product of Citizens Bank Park?

[midwestjeff]

Soooo...can someone explain to me again how the Phillies offense is a product of Citizens Bank Park?

Wellemeyer was rushed back from the DL because the Cards have 87 injured pitchers and he was throwing dogshit?

[scottinnj]

The Cardinals must be upset over the sale of Amheuser-Busch.

Should they even show up tomorrow? Will they?

[K.C.]

Ahhhhh...a little AC....a White Russian...perfect afternoon for day baseball.

Let's score some runs!

[midwestjeff]

Ahhhhh...a little AC....a White Russian...perfect afternoon for day baseball.

Let's score some runs!

Can ya keep it under 10 today? I'd like to enjoy the game too. Yesterday was brutal.

[K.C.]

Can ya keep it under 10 today? I'd like to enjoy the game too. Yesterday was brutal.

Come on! You got to see Aaron Miles throw a 1-2-3 eighth inning (if you really hung in that long...and if you did, god bless).

[midwestjeff]

Come on! You got to see Aaron Miles throw a 1-2-3 eighth inning (if you really hung in that long...and if you did, god bless).

Oh yeah, I rarely turn a game off. Miles was indeed the highlight, though I hope he is done pitching this year.

[K.C.]

Lohse is doing a nice job today...they had an article in the Philadelphia Daily News today talking about how he was a little disappointed the Phillies pulled their 3 yr / $21 million offer off the table this offseason, and it implied he would have liked to stay.


The problem is that he listened to Boras who told him he'd get him $10 mil a year over four or five years, and it never materialized, and the Phillies got tired of waiting and went after Jenkins and Feliz instead.

The Cards kind of lucked out in picking him up as cheap as they did. He's been a good addition.

[K.C.]

Nice non-catch by Ludwick.

Whatever.

[K.C.]

I wonder if they could send Myers down for a few weeks.

He's not close to being effective right now.

The problem, is he's a complete maniac and probably wouldn't respond well to it.

[Towelie]

I wonder if they could send Myers down for a few weeks.

He's not close to being effective right now.

The problem, is he's a complete maniac and probably wouldn't respond well to it.

I'm sure Mrs. Myers already has the restraining order notarized and ready to go.

[Towelie]

Jeez that was certainly a scary collision.

Even though I hate the guy, you never want to see anyone get a head/neck injury.

[midwestjeff]

Jeez that was certainly a scary collision.

Even though I hate the guy, you never want to see anyone get a head/neck injury.

How can you hate the best catcher in baseball?

[Towelie]

How can you hate the best catcher in baseball?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06Mx7Kmb459hS/340x.jpg

Sigh.

[midwestjeff]

Two out of three.
Business as usual.
Oh, and thanks for the sound thrashing Friday,
it'll keep them humble.
See ya next month. :bye:

[Kevin]

How can you hate the best catcher named Molina, in baseball?

Fixed.

[TheMojoPin]

Thanks a lot, jerks.

[watson]

http://www.youtube.com/v/E4VTY--IHgU&hl=en

[K.C.]

Two out of three.
Business as usual.
Oh, and thanks for the sound thrashing Friday,
it'll keep them humble.
See ya next month. :bye:

I'll say I'm somewhat impressed with the Cards in taking a look at them this weekend, but the Phils gifted them that game on Sunday, and who knows what would have happened had Ludwick's non-catch been called right.

They'll get two of three against the Cards at CBP in July.

[K.C.]

Fun game at the stadium...probably like 15-20% Red Sox fans, who were adequately put in their place.

J.D. Drew got the reception he deserved.

I saw three things I never thought I'd see in the same game...Burrell hit a triple, Howard hit a triple, and Manny try and scale the wall for a fly ball.

Got tickets for the rest of the series, so I'm hoping the Phils follow it up tomorrow.

[KingGeno]

I was there last night, and J.D. Drew got a huge ass boo. douche.

Remember that first home run, KC? Someone in left field (I sit up in the first row under Harry the K's) tossed the ball back on the field like feet from Manny while play was happening? I think it was a stinkin Red Sox fan that caught one of the home runs.

All in all and impressive game. Brought my father on my partial season ticket package for father's day. My buddy and I bought a third seat. Best idea ever.

Have tickets for friday too. If the Phils can take 2 games from the Sox and Angels I will be a happy happy guy.

[K.C.]

I was there last night, and J.D. Drew got a huge ass boo. douche.

Remember that first home run, KC? Someone in left field (I sit up in the first row under Harry the K's) tossed the ball back on the field like feet from Manny while play was happening? I think it was a stinkin Red Sox fan that caught one of the home runs.

All in all and impressive game. Brought my father on my partial season ticket package for father's day. My buddy and I bought a third seat. Best idea ever.

Have tickets for friday too. If the Phils can take 2 games from the Sox and Angels I will be a happy happy guy.

What happened was Manny threw a foul ball up in to the stands...and like a minute later, the fan threw the ball back at Manny.

I was sitting up in 300 level hanging right over the foul pole last night...it was actually a great seat, because it was the first row.

I'm not sure Manny knew what to make of those fans last night...it was hard to tell if he was genuinely impressed be how crazy they were, or annoyed.

But he definitely took notice. He was staring at the fans all game.

[KingGeno]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. We thought it was a Red Sox fan that tossed it back into the crowd.

The crowd was great last night, and Col pitched great and had a good hit. I'm glad the weather held up, because it got real windy at one point. The sun popped out over right field and I knew it was gonna be cool.

Think Utley needs a break? Dunno what his reluctance to swing is. He has been dippin, bobbin, and weavin a lot recently, check swinging too much.

Glad Howard appears to be back. Hope he keeps it up.

i still think Burrell is huffin from that triple. Statue Legs.

I'm thinkin' that if Myers has a bad outing next time, I'd like to see them give Durbin a try at a start. Would be interesting.

[K.C.]

Yeah, I'd give Utley a game off.

Myers should be on thin ice, but I wouldn't use Durbin to replace him. Durbin's too valuable in the bullpen.

Maybe use Madson, or call someone up.

[tbagnu]

what is the latest on benson?

[Towelie]

what is the latest on benson?

He's a terrible pitcher.

[Kevin]

He's a terrible pitcher.

And a worse RB.

[Towelie]

And a worse RB.

Sure loves his booze though.

[joeyballsack]

You couldnt ask for a better butler though !

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:yde4FRA_zLGsTM:http://www.televisionheaven.co.uk/benson.jpg

[K.C.]

what is the latest on benson?

The latest is don't count on him.

Think Carlos Carrasco or J.A. Happ before Benson.

Tonight was kind of what I thought would happen on Moyer's end...I figured he'd be out early on pitch count because he's the kind of pitcher the Red Sox eat alive in at bats. He kept them in the game, though.

I did NOT figure the Phillies wouldn't hit Jon Lester...or that Ryan Howard would post a big 0-4 w/ 4 Ks (why I didn't figure the latter part of that equation...I should have known better).

All is well, though...Braves lost, Mets losing, Marlins losing.

4-2 this week is money...this is the Phils' toughest stretch of the season.

[tbagnu]

i will be there today...my first businesspersons special...ever!!..that sucks being that i am nearly 45!!

[K.C.]

Ok, so look at this team...bullpen's great, lineup's great, bench is great.

In a playoff series, Hamels is excellent as a #1, and I can live with Moyer as a #3.


By a month from today (6/19)...the Phillies have to solve one thing. Whether Brett Myers is capable of being their #2, and whether you trust him to go out there twice in a series.

If they decide no, then they have to make a move to get starting pitching.

I would say right now, the answer is obviously no.


If they decide to make a move for a starter, they might as well trade Myers for something else, too. He should still have some great value on the market as a closer (for a team like Cleveland for example).

So Myers is the key to whether this team can go deep this year...Everything else will take care of itself.

[K.C.]

I caught enough of the game tonight to see that Myers had great stuff. Not sure how the Aybar hit that pitch out. Phils' bats aren't getting it done right now. Charlie tried to shake it up a little by giving Utley the night off. I'd sit Rollins tomorrow. He looks out of sync and could use a day.

I'm not to concerned about the hitting. But they can't linger too much longer or they'll be looking up at Florida again.

[K.C.]

The problem that people keep overlooking in the trade rumors columns with the Phillies is that I think they're reluctant to take on a lot of money.


-They have Ryan Howard's arbitration, which could go as high as $15 million next season.
-Myers bumps up to $12 mil
-Eaton bumps up to $8.5 mil
-Utley bumps up to $11 mil
-Rollins bumps up to $7.5 mil
-They HAVE to sign Lidge, who will get at least what Cordero got last season (4 yr/ $46 mil), which means he'll be on the books for around $11.5 mil
-They have to buy out Gordon's option for $1 mil
-Jenkins bumps up to $6.75 mil
-Romero's on for $4 mil
-Feliz bumps up to $5 mil
-They have to buyout Taguchi for $150,000

And then they have to settle arbitration, or offer long-term deals to, or non-tender Hamels, Madson, Werth, Bruntlett, Durbin, Victorino, Dobbs, and Condrey

They're at $82 million for next season BEFORE they deal with that list of guys.

They opened 2008 with a $98 million payroll...so there's a decent chance they'll be near last year's threshold just taking care of all oft their in-house business.

And that doesn't include deciding whether to sign Burrell or not.

So, getting to the point, they're not going to take on a guy like A.J. Burnett, or Kevin Millwood, who are both owed significant money for a couple years.

There's two IMPACT pitchers they're probably targetting
-C.C. Sabathia
-Erik Bedard

In Sabathia's case, if they got him, they'd almost have to make a decision who would be more valuable to the team...Sabathia or Howard. And if they decided to extend him, that'd almost guarantee they're looking to dump Howard (which I think is a distinct possibility).

Bedard is an overall better fit for the Phillies economically, but they'll have to give up their few MLB ready prospects (Probably two out of Carrasco, Bastardo, Golson) to get him.

[K.C.]

Salisbury On Phillies' Trade Chips
By Tim Dierkes [June 24 at 9:31am CST]

Back on June 19th, ESPN's Jayson Stark said the Phillies had "at least kicked the tires on C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Bronson Arroyo, and Jarrod Washburn." He also expected them to inquire on Erik Bedard. Scott Lauber says the Phils have scouted Sabathia, Burnett, Ben Sheets, and Greg Maddux recently.

Jim Salisbury of the Philadelphia Inquirer weighs in this morning on the Phillies' trade chips. He names Shane Victorino, Jayson Werth, Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson, Greg Golson, and Adrian Cardenas as Phillies players other teams may covet. However, Salisbury believes Pat Gillick might opt for a midlevel acquisition and hang on to his top young players. Check out our starting pitcher trade market post for ideas.

Salisbury speculates on possible targets aside from the aforementioned names: Roy Oswalt and Rich Harden. Salisbury is speculating with these names, but notes that "the Astros had a high-ranking scout in Philadelphia on Sunday."

It would not shock me in the least if Ed Wade approached the Phillies and offered Oswalt for some sort of Victorino, Carrasco, Cardenas package or something, considering he signed them all.

The problem is that Oswalt has like 3-4 years left on his deal, I believe, and a full no-trade. That's tough to swallow. And like or not, Victorino is a huge part of the chemistry of this team. His defense and speed is huge.

I would be very reluctant to give up Victorino or Werth, although, I'd be more inclined to deal Werth first.

Bedard's still the best fit. I'd kick the tires on all those guys, except Washburn...fuck him, he's awful.

[K.C.]

Couple of interesting updates I'm hearing.

-Eskin said yesterday that the Phils really have no interest in Bedard. That's disappointing if true.
-The money issue is still a question mark. Some sources are saying that the Phillies may be willing to up their payroll somewhat significantly if it means getting a piece like Sabathia or Oswalt to put them over the top...other's say that Dave Montgomery is kind of on the fence.
-Phils are now looking at a reliever, too, because Gordon's breaking down quicker than expected.

I'm not sure exactly what to make of it all. The impression I get is that the Phils are going to make a hard run at Greg Maddux...Maddux is a nice middle of the rotation guy at this point, but not the top rotation guy that need.

I get the feeling that they're going down with the ship, in terms of Brett Myers, and they're going to look to him as the #2 for better or worse.

If Myers is able to slot himself in that spot, then you have Hamels, Myers, Maddux, and Moyer (who's pitched fantastic, actually).

That's a good enough staff (if Myers is right), to get through the NL, provided the Cubs don't add Sabathia.



Of course, all this is for naught, if the Phils don't actually win a game some time soon. I guess we're seeing the evening out of the 15 run and 20 run games earlier this season.

[K.C.]

Just a reminder: West Coast day game today...starts in about 10 minutes.

[cougarjake13]

Just a reminder: West Coast day game today...starts in about 10 minutes.


how'd that work out ???

[K.C.]

how'd that work out ???

I'm sorry...are you even over .500 yet???

[Towelie]

Does being two games back in the loss column still make us "irrelevant" and "second tier"?

Talk about a bad time for that retard rant.

Welcome back to Earth Chase Utley.

.225 BA and a .713 OPS since June 1st.

7 games until the Mets go back into Philly.

At this rate, we could be 4 games up by then.

[scottinnj]

how'd that work out ???

SHADDUP!

[scottinnj]

7 games until the Mets go back into Philly.

At this rate, we could be 4 games up by then.


You forget you have to win while we lose.

[K.C.]

At this rate, we could be 4 games up by then.

Are you on Earth 2?

Or are you counting on Jerry Manuel just sneaking into the clubhouse and shanking everyone before the game?

Fans of a team that authored the worst collapse in MLB history and is under .500 shouldn't be making statements like "we could be 4 games up."

Get above .500 first.

[Towelie]

You've lost 4 series in a row, bats are gone, starting pitching stinks, Utley is back to earth, Howard stinks, Rollins is back to his .750 OPS

Lets see what happens against Texas and Atlanta.

If you come away any less then 3-3, we'll be in first by July 7th

[K.C.]

You've lost 4 series in a row, bats are gone, starting pitching stinks, Utley is back to earth, Howard stinks, Rollins is back to his .750 OPS

Lets see what happens against Texas and Atlanta.

If you come away any less then 3-3, we'll be in first by July 7th

Like Scott said...you realize that the Mets actually have to WIN games, when the Phillies lose to gain ground...correct?

The sad thing is that this is the Mets best shot to get in this...right now. And unless the Phillies aren't going to hit for another two weeks, they've almost completely blown their shot, by dropping games to the dreck of MLB like the Mariners.

Slumps don't last forever. And they sure as hell won't for the best O in the NL.

[K.C.]

Benson to make Triple-A rehab start
06/26/2008 4:23 PM ET
By Ken Mandel / MLB.com

OAKLAND -- Feeling it's time for a challenge, the Phillies have sent rehabbing pitcher Kris Benson to Triple-A Lehigh Valley for his June 29 start.

The right-hander had gone 0-2 with an 8.10 ERA in two outings for the Single A Clearwater Threshers. He fared much better in his second outing, allowing one run on seven hits in 4 2/3 innings, while walking one and striking out three.

He'll face Syracuse, the Triple-A affiliate of the Blue Jays.

"It's important for him to be challenged and to get a better assessment on how he will handle pitching against better competition," assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "His velocity has been more consistent and he's had better arm speed. His stuff was better all around."

Amaro offered that Benson's fastball was consistently clocked at 88-89 mph, with some improvement expected still to come. He's scheduled to throw five innings or 80 pitches, though that total might be expanded.

Regardless of how well Benson performs, it's too early to predict when he might join the Phillies' starting rotation, and who he might replace.

"I think he's feeling a little more comfortable, a little stronger," Amaro said. "A lot depends on how much more he improves."

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.


Benson's still probably needs a good month of Triple-A starts before they even consider bringing him up.

Even if everything went as good as possible, I don't really know why they'd bump anyone at this point.

Moyer has been fantastic. Kendrick looks like he's found the arm slot for his sinker, and needs to be given a chance to build off his last start.

Maybe you bump Eaton, but he's given them six quality starts in his last seven...you can't ask for much more from a MLB #5 pitcher these days.

[K.C.]

Pete Happy!!!!

http://www.resurrectionsong.com/images/uploads/pedro.jpg


Damn, that team needed that.

[K.C.]

There's some rumblings afoot that Brett Myers may not make his next start in Atlanta and could be bound for Triple-A.

He looked lost last night, and could use some time to figure it out. Not sure how he'd react to it, though...I have a feeling that he's close to unloading a "this is their fault for taking me out of the bullpen, when I didn't want to do it" type of rant.


I was pretty pleased with the offense last night. Utley and Victorino had some good at-bats. Feliz has actually been the one guy that has hit during the slump.

Rollins is still out of sync, and had some bad looking at bats last night, and it's almost unexplainable with Howard at this point.

I can't understand how a guy can look solid when he has RBI opportunities, but completely and utterly overmatched when he's up with no one on. Howard has had some very good at-bats with runners in scoring position...he fouls off pitches, he's locks into a zone, he protects the plate...and then when he comes up with no one on, he chases everything...high fastballs, anything in the dirt.

He has to be just hacking at anything trying to hit the solo home run in those situations.


Even though Padilla's been pretty good, I'd have to think this is as good a shot as they're going to have to get back some momentum with Hamels on the mound. And then there's enough guys who are starting to swing well enough that they have a decent shot with Moyer on getaway day.


I'm very interested to see if they let Myers make his next start. If he doesn't, it's either Carrasco or Happ that would get the call...probably Happ, because they seem to be protecting Carrasco a little bit.


If the NL East wasn't so putrid a division, this June lull could have done some real damage. As long as they start to string a couple together in the next week, they'll be fine.

[cougarjake13]

Are you on Earth 2?

Or are you counting on Jerry Manuel just sneaking into the clubhouse and shanking everyone before the game?

Fans of a team that authored the worst collapse in MLB history and is under .500 shouldn't be making statements like "we could be 4 games up."

Get above .500 first.


fans of a team that only won the divison because of said collapse and havent won a playoff games in 14 years shouldnt be making statements about their so called division dominance

[K.C.]

fans of a team that only won the divison because of said collapse and havent won a playoff games in 14 years shouldnt be making statements about their so called division dominance

How many times in a row did the Phillies beat the Mets during the 'greatest comeback in MLB history' :wink: as we call it around here (but if you want to stick with 'collapse,' be my guess).


And where have I touted the Phils' "division dominance?"

All I've said is that the division's terrible and the the Mets weren't a legitimate concern or threat in my mind, until they actually get above, and stay above .500, and until I see them during that four-game set in Philadelphia starting July 4th.

Honestly, are those unreasonable statements?

After that series, I'll re-evaluate my opinion of the Mets. I will say that from what I've seen from afar, they're playing a little bit better, and that it bothers me a little bit that if the Phils had taken care of business during the last home stand and the beginning of this road trip, they'd be buried at anywhere between 8-10 games out.

So it's hard to be enthusiastic about the fact that the Mets will most likely come into Philadelphia with a shot to make some serious in-roads.

But don't mistake me...the NL East is showing to be pretty bad this year, as is the NL in general.

I'm not under any delusion at this point that the Phillies, or any team in the National League , including the Cubs, are a dominant team at this point.



P.S.: Fans of teams with one hall of famer shouldn't be commenting on greatness. :tongue:

[Kevin]

P.S.: Fans of teams with one hall of famer shouldn't be commenting on greatness. :tongue:

Well, at least their 1 HOF did not cry like a women when he retired..:happy:

Just saying...

[Kevin]

Are you on Earth 2?

Or are you counting on Jerry Manuel just sneaking into the clubhouse and shanking everyone before the game?

Fans of a team that authored the worst collapse in MLB history and is under .500 shouldn't be making statements like "we could be 4 games up."

Get above .500 first.

Yea i gotta go with you here. Towlie has way too much faith on a team that has not shown a damn thing since late august of last year.

[K.C.]

Well, at least their 1 HOF did not cry like a women when he retired..:happy:

Just saying...

But....but....he left Dayton with two very bad knees and a dream to become a Major League baseball player...

:flush:

It's not something we're proud of...

Schmidty's going to be the future big-league manager of the Phils one day, though...he's already putting feelers out there for down the road. I'd bank on it happening, whenever Charlie's done.

[Kevin]

But....but....he left Dayton with two very bad knees and a dream to become a Major League baseball player...

:flush:

It's not something we're proud of...

Schmidty's going to be the future big-league manager of the Phils one day, though...he's already putting feelers out there for down the road. I'd bank on it happening, whenever Charlie's done.

Could be a good fit. If you don't listen to Mike Schmidt in Philly then you need to find another profession. Or he does.. One of the two.

[Towelie]

Yea i gotta go with you here. Towlie has way too much faith on a team that has not shown a damn thing since late august of last year.

I'll agree the the Mets have been in a spiral since June of last year, but its not as if Philly has done anything to warrant talk of them being a contender.

They were the beneficiaries of a monster collapse, got blown out in the playoffs and aren't doing anything this year to separate themselves from the pack.

If they were really a threat, why would the difference between the fourth place team and them be only 2 losses?

Its funny to see their fan base talk as if they are the 99 Yankees though. One difference in one game last year and what are they left with? A 3 game lead and no playoff appearances in 15 seasons.

Their starting staff is in the bottom half of the NL in ERA, and they are under .500 as a staff.

If thats all it takes to be confident, then I can't see how you can't see why Mets fans figure we'll catch up. Hell, we've made up 4.5 games in about 2 weeks.

The Phillies have 5 games and the Mets have 6 until the 4 game set in Philly. At worst I'd figure we'll be a game or 2 out going in.

And lets remember, we've won both series against the Phillies this year, and would have swept them in Philly if Luis Castillo could have gotten a bunt down.

[Kevin]

I'll agree the the Mets have been in a spiral since June of last year, but its not as if Philly has done anything to warrant talk of them being a contender.

They were the beneficiaries of a monster collapse, got blown out in the playoffs and aren't doing anything this year to separate themselves from the pack.

If they were really a threat, why would the difference between the fourth place team and them be only 2 losses?

Its funny to see their fan base talk as if they are the 99 Yankees though. One difference in one game last year and what are they left with? A 3 game lead and no playoff appearances in 15 seasons.

Their starting staff is in the bottom half of the NL in ERA, and they are under .500 as a staff.

If thats all it takes to be confident, then I can't see how you can't see why Mets fans figure we'll catch up. Hell, we've made up 4.5 games in about 2 weeks.

The Phillies have 5 games and the Mets have 6 until the 4 game set in Philly. At worst I'd figure we'll be a game or 2 out going in.

And lets remember, we've won both series against the Phillies this year, and would have swept them in Philly if Luis Castillo could have gotten a bunt down.

Yea but didn't you guys own them last year too, until September? I don't disagree that you can win the div, they def have the talent, but i do not think they will. Unless ALOT of things turn around.

Johan has to be Johan. His stats are good era wise but they really do not tell the story.

Maine has to be more consistent

Pedro has to be better.

Can that happen? maybe, will it? I don't know..

Somone brought up something really important about Pedro last night. Its not that he got rocked, pitchers have bad days. But he did not look like the same guy. I mean facial wise, body language. He just did not look to have that Pedro moxy about him. He looked kinda lost. That is what would worry me about him.

[cougarjake13]

How many times in a row did the Phillies beat the Mets during the 'greatest comeback in MLB history' :wink: as we call it around here (but if you want to stick with 'collapse,' be my guess).


And where have I touted the Phils' "division dominance?"

All I've said is that the division's terrible and the the Mets weren't a legitimate concern or threat in my mind, until they actually get above, and stay above .500, and until I see them during that four-game set in Philadelphia starting July 4th.

Honestly, are those unreasonable statements?

After that series, I'll re-evaluate my opinion of the Mets. I will say that from what I've seen from afar, they're playing a little bit better, and that it bothers me a little bit that if the Phils had taken care of business during the last home stand and the beginning of this road trip, they'd be buried at anywhere between 8-10 games out.

So it's hard to be enthusiastic about the fact that the Mets will most likely come into Philadelphia with a shot to make some serious in-roads.

But don't mistake me...the NL East is showing to be pretty bad this year, as is the NL in general.

I'm not under any delusion at this point that the Phillies, or any team in the National League , including the Cubs, are a dominant team at this point.



P.S.: Fans of teams with one hall of famer shouldn't be commenting on greatness. :tongue:

your not gonna make me explain it all over again are you ??

yes the 7 games lost to the phillies hurt but even with that the last game played against philly by the mets was sept 16

the mets lost the divison b/c the couldnt beat the marlins or nationals during the last 2 weeks of the season

1-5 vs nationals
1-2 in the last series vs the marlins with their playoff lives at stake

[Towelie]

I heard Beltran say that Pedro might have been tipping his pitches, although I don't think a HOFer would tip his pitches

The walks killed him, the Yankees really didn't hit anything too hard except for maybe the one ball by Jeter.

I'm not worried about Pedro, well not worried yet anyways. He's got a few gimme starts before the ASB, if he doesn't do well in those then I'll be worried.

My biggest concerns going forward are Oliver Perez (obviously), and the wild inconsistancy of the offense.

I mean how do you win a game 15-5 and then lose one 9-0 within 3 hours? They should have had 5 runs on Ponson in the first two innings last night.

Church is coming back, hopefully Sunday or Monday, Alou is supposed to be back within the week so maybe we wont have to deal with the Andy Phillips and the Tatis' of the world for much longer.

[cougarjake13]

After that series, I'll re-evaluate my opinion of the Mets. I will say that from what I've seen from afar, they're playing a little bit better, and that it bothers me a little bit that if the Phils had taken care of business during the last home stand and the beginning of this road trip, they'd be buried at anywhere between 8-10 games out.



just like if the mets had taken care of business last year there's no phillies div title

and if the yanks took care of business in the 04 alcs no red sawx w.s. title


if is the biggest word

[K.C.]

Its funny to see their fan base talk as if they are the 99 Yankees though.

This has got to be the funniest statement I've seen yet, considering the source.

[Towelie]

This has got to be the funniest statement I've seen yet, considering the source.

Says the guy who called the Mets "irrelevant" and "second tier" and then disappeared while the Phillies lost 6 games in a row

[Kevin]

I know this is the Philly thread, but its kinda appropriate.

Here is one of the biggest problems i see with the Mets.

They tend to make teams play really hard against them.

They tend to really whoop it up when they are doing well, but one slip of adversity they can't seem to handle.

Like last year, Fla was ready to go home. But even when you guys were collapsing heavy, as soon as you had one good game, the game before the last, you guys were whooping it up like you had won 17 in a row and had the div in the bag. That pissed off Fla so much that they decided to play hard in that game on Sunday. Sure was Glavine awful? Yea, but maybe he would have gotten away with it if the Marlins weren't so motivated.

Even the announcers are obnoxious (Not saying the Yankees announcers are different, i hate them) But you heard the Gary Cohen on TV call and the Howie Rose on the radio on the Delgado Hr and you would have that it clinched the World series, when it was a tack on 15th run on a rout.

I just think this team needs more balance and a little more professionalism. And i am not saying this because i am a Yankee fan, its just my observation.

They need to follow David Wrights example more. That man is a hard nosed class act player. You can tell each loss really bothers him.

[K.C.]

just like if the mets had taken care of business last year there's no phillies div title

and if the yanks took care of business in the 04 alcs no red sawx w.s. title


if is the biggest word

Absolutely 'if' is the biggest word...which is why you can't make statements like the 'Phillies didn't really win it because this, and this, and this happened.'

Just like if the Mets sweep the Phillies out of their own stadium in July and use that as a kick start to win the division, it'd be stupid for me to point back to June and say 'if this happened, and that happened.'

The bottom line is the Phillies won last year....whoever wins it this year will have won by virtue of the fact that they did what they had to do to win.

You can take most situations in baseball and breakdown what would have happened if things had gone differently...all that matters are wins and losses.


I'm not happy about what the Phillies have done in June, and I can make 'what if' statements all I want...but at the end of the day, I know if they fall out of first place, they will have done so because they lost and someone else played better.

[K.C.]

Says the guy who called the Mets "irrelevant" and "second tier" and then disappeared while the Phillies lost 6 games in a row

When have I disappeared?...I post here everyday.

And I've commented on that statement, and will continue to defend that statement.

It's hard to take a team seriously until it can at least sustain itself above .500.

[K.C.]

I know this is the Philly thread, but its kinda appropriate.

Here is one of the biggest problems i see with the Mets.

They tend to make teams play really hard against them.

They tend to really whoop it up when they are doing well, but one slip of adversity they can't seem to handle.

Like last year, Fla was ready to go home. But even when you guys were collapsing heavy, as soon as you had one good game, the game before the last, you guys were whooping it up like you had won 17 in a row and had the div in the bag. That pissed off Fla so much that they decided to play hard in that game on Sunday. Sure was Glavine awful? Yea, but maybe he would have gotten away with it if the Marlins weren't so motivated.

Even the announcers are obnoxious (Not saying the Yankees announcers are different, i hate them) But you heard the Gary Cohen on TV call and the Howie Rose on the radio on the Delgado Hr and you would have that it clinched the World series, when it was a tack on 15th run on a rout.

I just think this team needs more balance and a little more professionalism. And i am not saying this because i am a Yankee fan, its just my observation.

They need to follow David Wrights example more. That man is a hard nosed class act player. You can tell each loss really bothers him.


It's hard to breakdown intangibles like that, but I put stock in them, even though our Mets' friend does not, as I'm sure he'll tell you.

But more immediately, the Mets' biggest problem is the Phillies' biggest problem -- starting pitching. Santana's been great, and Maine's been solid...but after that...Pedro's been less than stellar. Oliver Perez has been god-awful. And Pelfey is hit or miss.

The Phillies have the same problem. Hamels has been great, and Moyer's been solid....the rest of the starters have struggled.


So it really comes down to whoever can piece their rotation together. The Phillies have a little bit of an advantage in having a couple chips to deal if they look to add pitcher...and they have the better bullpen.

The Mets back-end pitchers on paper have more talent....but Oliver Perez's talent means nothing when he can't get out of the 4th inning because he doesn't know how to pitch.

[Towelie]

I know this is the Philly thread, but its kinda appropriate.

Here is one of the biggest problems i see with the Mets.

They tend to make teams play really hard against them.

They tend to really whoop it up when they are doing well, but one slip of adversity they can't seem to handle.

Like last year, Fla was ready to go home. But even when you guys were collapsing heavy, as soon as you had one good game, the game before the last, you guys were whooping it up like you had won 17 in a row and had the div in the bag. That pissed off Fla so much that they decided to play hard in that game on Sunday. Sure was Glavine awful? Yea, but maybe he would have gotten away with it if the Marlins weren't so motivated.

Even the announcers are obnoxious (Not saying the Yankees announcers are different, i hate them) But you heard the Gary Cohen on TV call and the Howie Rose on the radio on the Delgado Hr and you would have that it clinched the World series, when it was a tack on 15th run on a rout.

I just think this team needs more balance and a little more professionalism. And i am not saying this because i am a Yankee fan, its just my observation.

They need to follow David Wrights example more. That man is a hard nosed class act player. You can tell each loss really bothers him.

Professionalism, especially that of the announcers doesn't not win ball games.

You're telling me the previous days brawl and a chance to destroy a teams playoff chances wasn't motivation enough for the Marlins?

No it couldn't have been that, it must have been Lasto celebrating his homer, that was their motivation last year.

If you think a little dancing in the dugout is the reason teams want to beat the Mets, you're nuts.

Sorry Gary and Howie thought the a) the Mets first grand slam in about 2 years and b) a record breaking HR deserved a little extra.

And they've seemed to handle the Willie firing adversary pretty well, dont you think?

I guess all these teams were extra motivated to beat Boston when Manny is being Manny or when they had Damon and Millar clowning it up in 2004.

I don't want to root for a team that doesn't have fun when they are out there. It would make the experience lame.

And trust me, a lot of Mets fans hate David Wright being so vanilla with the press. And I guess you've never watched him in the dugout, he's the first guy up the step to do their little celebrations and the first guy ready to jump out there if need be (watch the Manuel/Beltran ejection for example)

[Kevin]

Professionalism, especially that of the announcers doesn't not win ball games.

You're telling me the previous days brawl and a chance to destroy a teams playoff chances wasn't motivation enough for the Marlins?

No it couldn't have been that, it must have been Lasto celebrating his homer, that was their motivation last year.

If you think a little dancing in the dugout is the reason teams want to beat the Mets, you're nuts.

Sorry Gary and Howie thought the a) the Mets first grand slam in about 2 years and b) a record breaking HR deserved a little extra.

And they've seemed to handle the Willie firing adversary pretty well, dont you think?

I guess all these teams were extra motivated to beat Boston when Manny is being Manny or when they had Damon and Millar clowning it up in 2004.

I don't want to root for a team that doesn't have fun when they are out there. It would make the experience lame.

And trust me, a lot of Mets fans hate David Wright being so vanilla with the press. And I guess you've never watched him in the dugout, he's the first guy up the step to do their little celebrations and the first guy ready to jump out there if need be (watch the Manuel/Beltran ejection for example)

They got smacked around the day after the brawl, they were DEAD. They were ready to go home sunday and pack it up.

And The 'idiots' clowning around was different, they were goof balls. Its different with the Mets, no need for 25 move dances when you hit hrs or rbis.

[cougarjake13]

Absolutely 'if' is the biggest word...which is why you can't make statements like the 'Phillies didn't really win it because this, and this, and this happened.'

Just like if the Mets sweep the Phillies out of their own stadium in July and use that as a kick start to win the division, it'd be stupid for me to point back to June and say 'if this happened, and that happened.'

The bottom line is the Phillies won last year....whoever wins it this year will have won by virtue of the fact that they did what they had to do to win.

You can take most situations in baseball and breakdown what would have happened if things had gone differently...all that matters are wins and losses.


I'm not happy about what the Phillies have done in June, and I can make 'what if' statements all I want...but at the end of the day, I know if they fall out of first place, they will have done so because they lost and someone else played better.

i dont deny that

i just dont beleive the phillie loses hold more weight than the losses to fla and wash

had those 7 games been the last 7 of the season then i'd agree that the phillie losses directly caused the mets to miss the playoffs

but the mets were only one game back at seasons end so yes the phillie losses hurt but they still had a chance to win the divison if they went 3-3 instead of 1-5 against wash or they could have forced a 1 game playoff if they won that sunday game

[Towelie]

They got smacked around the day after the brawl, they were DEAD. They were ready to go home sunday and pack it up.

And The 'idiots' clowning around was different, they were goof balls. Its different with the Mets, no need for 25 move dances when you hit hrs or rbis.

Don't like the dance moves? Dont give up home runs.

Simple as that.

If these guys can't have fun playing this game, I'm wasting my time.

[cougarjake13]

kevin believes every one should do it the yankee way

all business and no fun

[Towelie]

kevin believes every one should do it the yankee way

all business and no fun

And terrible, terrible mustaches.

[K.C.]

i dont deny that

i just dont beleive the phillie loses hold more weight than the losses to fla and wash

had those 7 games been the last 7 of the season then i'd agree that the phillie losses directly caused the mets to miss the playoffs

but the mets were only one game back at seasons end so yes the phillie losses hurt but they still had a chance to win the divison if they went 3-3 instead of 1-5 against wash or they could have forced a 1 game playoff if they won that sunday game

That's true.

You win one of those games against the Nats and Marlins, and it all goes away.



The one thing I will say, though, is that I remember being in Citizens Bank Park for the three of the four games in that late August sweep of the Mets that the Phils had.

I think that series kind of defined what September would be for both teams from a momentum standpoint. The Phillies blew up after that, and the Mets were never really the same for the rest of the season.

In that respect, I think the Phils deserve a lot of credit...especially because I think they came from behind to win three of those four games, or something like that. None of those games were gimmies.


But, I'll absolutely acknowledge the Mets were the instrument of their own destruction. And I never really believed, until the final three or four games that the Phillies would win the division last year.

I figured they'd snag the Wild Card.

Thank god...because Colorado blew up.


And while I'm on it, that's the reason Towelie's playoff argument is stupid...the Phillies didn't exactly lose to a scrub team...the 2007 Rockies won 14 of their final 15 (including a playoff) to get in, and swept their way through the NL.

That was a pretty damn good team.

[K.C.]

Tim Sullivan says southpaw starter Randy Wolf is "almost certainly gone." Wolf was having a very similar season in '07 but was done by July 3rd. Aside from health concerns, Wolf has a 14-team no-trade clause that includes many Midwest clubs. The Phillies, Yankees, or Mets could make sense.

Wolf has a 5.84 ERA away from Petco this year...I'd take a shot on him as a back-end guy if he doesn't anything significant. Otherwise, steer clear.

Greg Maddux isn't talking much about whether he'd waive his no-trade clause. Fans have speculated he could go back to Atlanta or Chicago.

Chicago makes sense...Atlanta would probably have to get hot to entertain being buyers. Seems very unlikely to me he's going to an East Coast team other than the Braves. He's pretty much made it well known there's only certain places he wants to pitch.

# On June 24th, Ken Rosenthal sang a different tune. He said, "The Rockies remain willing to move closer Brian Fuentes regardless of whether they climb back into contention." One reason for their willingness to trade Fuentes: they'd be hesitant to offer him arbitration after the season and then have him accept. Rosenthal said the Rockies "remain intrigued by Mets righty Aaron Heilman."
# The list of known suitors remains at five: Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, and A's. Sean McAdam wrote today that Hideki Okajima's struggles may cause the Red Sox to step up their pursuit.

The Phillies have the prospects for one big move, and I doubt they'd waste them on Fuentes.

I can't see a Heilman for Fuentes swap on the Mets end, either...it'd cost more than that, and the Mets don't have the prospects.

Boston seems like the best fit for him.

Phillies manager Charlie Manuel wasn't ready to reveal any decision on Sunday about the status of starter Brett Myers, if he has made one regarding the struggling right-hander.

Myers remains in limbo for his next start, scheduled for Thursday in Atlanta, though he seems unlikely to take that turn.

"I'll have it by Tuesday, probably," Manuel said. "We'll talk about it [Monday]."

Most likely they'll skip his turn because of the off-day, then re-assess him for his next start. It's either going to be Myers or Happ. I get the feeling they'll give Myers the prolonged rest, work with him a little a bit, and give him one last start next week.

If he looks awful, he'll move to middle relief, and they'll go with Happ.

On Sunday, Benson took another step toward recovery from March 2007 surgery and another step toward being able to help a Phillies pitching staff that may need it soon.

The 33-year-old right-hander made his third Minor League start of 2008 and his first for Triple-A Lehigh Valley. Sunday's outing unfolded in a manner similar to his first two Minor League starts for Class A Clearwater -- Benson surrendered a lead and ultimately left the game with his team trailing.

Benson was credited with the loss in Lehigh Valley's 6-3 loss to Syracuse on Sunday. He is now 0-3 with an 8.44 ERA in his three Minor League starts as he attempts to return to the Majors for the first time since 2006. Benson joined the Phillies as a Minor League free agent in February.

He had been scheduled to throw five innings or 80 pitches, but was lifted after his four innings in which he yielded four earned runs on five hits. He threw 73 pitches, 49 for strikes.

Still not looking great. If Benson ever gets right, he's a solution to Adam Eaton in the rotation, but it's completely unreasonable to expect him to be more than #5 starter.

[TheMojoPin]

Chicago makes sense...Atlanta would probably have to get hot to entertain being buyers. Seems very unlikely to me he's going to an East Coast team other than the Braves. He's pretty much made it well known there's only certain places he wants to pitch.

It makes no sense for anyone to get Maddux at this point. I love the guy, but I'll be furious if the Cubs get him, even if it costs them next to nothing. He's barely average or worse away from the cavern that is Petco Field. He aparently can't or won't usually go above 80 pitches for half of his starts this season...he's pretty much near the end.

[K.C.]

It makes no sense for anyone to get Maddux at this point. I love the guy, but I'll be furious if the Cubs get him, even if it costs them next to nothing. He's barely average or worse away from the cavern that is Petco Field. He aparently can't or won't usually go above 80 pitches for half of his starts this season...he's pretty much near the end.

There's a couple question marks about him, but he has a 4.75 ERA away from Petco...that's enough to make him a #4 or #5 on most teams in today's baseball.

In that respect, he'd be a good acquisition for a team like the Cubs. While the numbers are similar, Maddux has much more experience than guys like Marquis, Gallagher, and Marshall...I'd trust him a little more.


I wouldn't completely write off the fact that he'd actually get better moving away from Petco either.

Jamie Moyer was like 2-10 with a 6 ERA pitching for Seattle in Safeco, which is another huge park like Petco.

The one thing I'm noticing about these soft-tossers who play in these cavernous ballparks, is that they pitch to the ballpark, which means getting a lot of the plate with their pitches, because it's tough to hit balls out of those parks. As a result, they get lit up everywhere else.

Moyer adjusted when he left Safeco, and throws almost exclusively to the inside and outside corners, because he knew he couldn't pitch to fly ball contact at Citizens Bank Park.

It wouldn't surprise me to a similar adjustment that pays off if Maddux ends up at Wrigley, and he actually got better.

[TheMojoPin]

There's a couple question marks about him, but he has a 4.75 ERA away from Petco...that's enough to make him a #4 or #5 on most teams in today's baseball.

It wouldn't surprise me to a similar adjustment that pays off if Maddux ends up at Wrigley, and he actually got better.

I'd take him over Marquis, definitely, but not the other two. Let the kids duke it out for the #5 slot. Maddux numbers at Wrigley were getting worse and worse towards the end of his last run with the Cubs. They need every part of their crappy farm system to try and get another #2 or even #1 starter, not yet another back of the rotation guys. They've got plenty of those.

[K.C.]

High-end Latin prospects not in Phillies' budget

By PAUL HAGEN
Philadelphia Daily News

hagenp@phillynews.com
ADIS PORTILLO, according to those who have seen him pitch, is the real deal. He's a 6-3 righthander with a fastball that hits 92 mph. He also has command of a curve and a change. And he's only 16 years old.

The Phillies are well aware of Portillo. They have scouted him. They have worked him out. They have had some of their top baseball people fly to Venezuela to take a look. They have established a relationship with the family.

But tomorrow, when major league teams can begin signing international players who will turn 17 after Sept. 6, the Phillies will not add a pitcher they covet, even though he projects as a possible top-of-the-line starter in the big leagues.

Instead, if the baseball grapevine is correct, he will accept a $2.2 million bonus from the Padres.

The reason the Phils will miss out is simple. San Diego is going to lavish about twice its entire international signing allowance on Portillo alone. The Padres also are going to sign Venezuelan outfielder Luis Domoromo and Dominican shortstop Alvaro Aristy, pushing their total investment in three players to about $4.4 million.

Knee-jerk reaction alert: This is not a screed portraying the Phillies as being cheap. The reality is more nuanced than that.

They are one of the few teams that have academies in both the Dominican Republic and Venezuela, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to support those initiatives. Their entry in the Dominican Summer League won 22 straight games at one point last season to win the Northern Division.

The most visible dividend from their investment is righthander Carlos Carrasco, rated one of the organization's best prospects who is currently at Double A Reading. The 21-year-old Venezuelan was given $300,000 to sign and, so far, that looks like money well spent.

More under the radar but also highly regarded are righthander Edgar Garcia (who got $500,000 and was MVP of the Florida State League All-Star Game last summer), Dominican lefthander Antonio Bastardo and Venezuelan shortstop Freddy Galvis.

Rival organizations are complimentary of their efforts. "We always see their guys around, and not just in Latin America," says the international scouting director from another team. "I know they're out there seeing all the players."

They've had some success, even though their international signing allotment last year ranked among the bottom five in baseball. According to sources from competing clubs, they had less than $900,000 to spend.

It's been increased substantially this season - by about $500,000, according to the same industry sources - but still falls in the bottom third. And that's not enough to allow them to get in on the bidding for players like Portillo . . . or Dominican righthander Michael Inoa (expected to get at least $4 million from the Athletics), Venezuelan outfielder Yorman Rodriguez (who has been compared to Miguel Cabrera) or Dominican outfielder Rafael Rodriguez (who is likened to Vladimir Guerrero).

By contrast, Seattle spent $4.2 million last year. Cincinnati is poised to give $4 million to just two players this year. The Yankees, Mets and Red Sox seemingly spend whatever it takes. The average per team layout is pegged at around $1.8 million . . . and going up every year. "It's really exploding," one scout says.

And there's a ripple effect from not staying competitive in that talent-rich arena which goes beyond just depriving an organization of talent.

The competition for signing foreign players, especially those from Latin America, tends to be bare-knuckled. It's a wild, wild West mentality, a shadowy world of buscones and side deals made with a wink and a handshake and "coaches" who have the power to pick and choose which teams will be allowed to work out a player one-on-one.

"The hardest thing is to get to see the players," says agent Rob Plummer, who specializes in representing Latin American players. "Different coaches have people they're really connected with. Teams want to see the players individually so they can make a good evaluation.

"The coach has to believe that a team has a sincere interest before he's going to let a team do that. And especially when a team hasn't signed guys for a lot of money, it's even more daunting.

"[Phillies international supervisor] Sal Agostinelli has done a great job getting to see the players. But it's got to be frustrating when he can't sign them. And it's bad for the credibility of the team."

In other words, if the Phillies get a reputation for being unwilling to back up their interest with dollars, it will become that much more difficult to even properly evaluate the top players in the future.

Agostinelli and Mike Arbuckle, the Phillies' assistant general manager, scouting and player development, declined comment.

To be fair, $2 million is a lot of money to give to a 16-year-old kid from Latin America, even if his talent suggests that he would be a high first-round pick if he was subject to the draft. Because of his age and the difficulty in judging him against his competition, it's a real risk.

At the same time, there's a corresponding upside. Teams that are aggressive internationally can, in effect, sidestep the leveling impact of the draft. And an argument can even be made that it could actually save money in the long run.

Not every international player is going to make it big. But Phillies scouts have a pretty good track record. If they had the flexibility to occasionally go above budget to sign an exceptional international player, in 5 or 6 years it's possible they could bring players up from their farm system rather than having to sign expensive free agents.

In recent years alone, the Phillies gave Jon Lieber $21 million and Adam Eaton $24.5 million. They traded for Freddy Garcia. That cost not only the $10 million that Garcia made in 2007 but two pitching prospects, Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. In the last two offseasons they've committed $13 million to Geoff Jenkins, $8.5 million to Pedro Feliz and $5.45 million to Wes Helms.

And signing top free agents also costs compensatory draft picks, further undermining the farm system.

By those yardsticks, spending an extra couple million a year on international players doesn't seem like such a big risk after all.

The Phillies will sign some players this year. They have hit on some longshots. Bastardo, for example, signed for less than $25,000.

In the long run, though, they won't be able to compete if they have to rely on striking it rich with bargain signings. As the saying goes, they can pay now. Or they can pay a lot more later. *


Their minor league system has really undergone a complete overhaul in the last few years, now that they've given Mike Arbuckle some money to invest in it.

The Phils have done pretty well in the draft, really since Ed Wade took over in the late 90s, (Howard, Utley, Burrell, Hamels, Myers, Madson, Kendrick), but Pat Gillick kicked the amateur signings into overdrive...something that Wade was sketchy at, at best.

As the article says, they have both Venezuelan and DR academies, although Venezuela seems to have paid more immediate dividends for them (I think Bobby Abreu did a lot to help them take the Venezuelan academy to the next level).

They also have a full-time Australian scout, who's helped them target and bring in nine Aussies over the last few years, including Drew Naylor, who may be a big time pitching prospect in the making.


That's why it's a tough decision on what to do this season. Carlos Carrasco, Antonio Bastardo, and Greg Golson are really the first successes of this revamped minor league system.

All should be ready next season. If you deal those guys for a two-month rental on Sabathia, or Bedard, or Burnett, and fail...you just ripped the core out of your minor league system for the next year, year and a half until the High-A/Low-A class that features Joe Savery, Adrian Cardenas, Kyle Drabek, Drew Naylor, Dominic Brown, and so forth comes along.


I don't know if I can fault them if they don't make that big move this season.

[PigShitIrish]

Brett Myers has agreed to take a trip to the minors........

Story (http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=mlb-news-display&nid=A31649931214944722A)

[K.C.]

Brett Myers has agreed to take a trip to the minors........

Story (http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=mlb-news-display&nid=A31649931214944722A)

Well, when you're completey ineffective, that's what happens...better than, then long-relief.

I'm really anxious to see Happ...the guy leads AAA in strikeouts.

[K.C.]

God dammit, Juan Carlos....throw strikes!!!

[K.C.]

Lights Out!

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2008/04/21/1208764365_3211/300h.jpg


Great win all around...nothing like being back to playing NL teams.

[K.C.]

Myers relished the closer's role last season. He wanted to continue to pitch out of the bulllpen. But the Phillies acquired closer Brad Lidge in a November trade with the Houston Astros and returned Myers to the rotation, believing he and Hamels could become an effective 1-2 punch atop their rotation.

"I want to be great, and honestly, I realized last year that I'd only be a good starter," Myers said. "I felt like I had rock-star status as a closer. I enjoyed the bullpen. I felt like they liked me in that role. But it was easier to get a closer than another starter. Lidge has done a hell of a job for us. I don't think I could do better."

-Huh? I hope he's talking about his career, because he was awful last year, too.

-Phils recalled LHP R.J. Swindle...he's a junkballer who will see bullpen action if they need a lefty the next two days, then he'll likely go back down in favor of J.A. Happ.

-Probables for the Mets' series
Friday: J.A. Happ vs. Johan Santana (Advantage: Mets)
Saturday: Jamie Moyer vs. John Maine (Maine always pitches well against the Phillies, but Moyer's pitched well against the Mets...should be a toss up)
Sunday: Kyle Kendrick vs. Oliver Perez (Advantage: Phillies)
Monday: Adam Eaton vs. Pedro Martinez (If Adam Eaton has accomplished one thing since signing, he handles the Mets well...Pedro's been awful...that said, if the Phillies are threatening to take three of four with this game, I would have a hard time betting against Pedro Martinez in that situation. He's the Mets' true stopper in the rotation, when they need a big game, and he showed that last year being one of the only dependable guys during their collapse. I wouldn't bet against him in a big game).

Should be a good series, and I think it's a landmark one for both clubs.

-If Phillies sweep, Mets are close to done
-If Phils take 3 of 4, Probably a bit of a demoralizing series for the Mets, but they're not quite out.
-2 to 2 split is probably Advantage: Mets, since they kind of linger within striking distance, but have the added confidence of splitting on the road with the team they're chasing
-If Mets take 3 of 4, they're making definite strides.
-If Mets sweep, it's a full blown horse race, with momentum on the Mets side.

[K.C.]

Lights Out!

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2008/04/21/1208764365_3211/300h.jpg


Great win all around...nothing like being back to playing NL teams.


Not quite Lights Out tonight...maybe 'lights slowly dimmed.'

But he didn't give up any runs, and they got the win.

[Earlshog]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2p-Ee1hdKcc

Myers really is a horses ass... if he don't get his shit together right quick they should cut his ass... such a shame cause he was pitching at his potential they would be up 8 games i/o 2

[realmenhatelife]

Not quite Lights Out tonight...maybe 'lights slowly dimmed.'

But he didn't give up any runs, and they got the win.

I like how Lidge, Bruntlett, and Jenkins look like fucking brothers. Brunlett is the hairy brother. Dudes shouldn't have five o'clock shadow on their upper backs

[K.C.]

Bye bye, Braves...Bring on the Mets.


Back to Philadelphia...let's take the SOUL train!!!

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[K.C.]

Don't dig the Sound of Philadelphia? Maybe a little Chichester fight song:

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Wooooooooo!...makes me want to snort coke...go Phils!!!


Chichester 20, Sun Valley 15!

[Bossanova]

Drunk Boss here. Fuck you Philadelphia and your white trash fans. I am sick of Utley and his wouldn't be home runs in any other stadium home runs and fatso's raw power and Rollins for being Rollins. Fuck you and your faggot moscot that I have wanted to punch since birth. Fuck mike Schmidt and Lance Parrish. Fuck Von Hayes for having a name that fat neck Chris Berman can make a nickname for. Fuck you for having blue unis in the 80's. Fuck your arrogance for never winning dick. Suck my dick for making me endure that shit hole during football season. Fuck Cunningham for mezmorizing me as a young lad so now Im stuck with this fuck stick of a fotball team. Fuck One nut Kruk, fuck the Flyers and the"hammer" fuck Dr. J fuck your weak ass cheese steaks. Fuck Pat and Gino (Jimmi's is better) fuck you for maing me type my hatred at 3:55 in the fucking morning when my hangover sets in. Fuck the Phantoms, i'll even say fuck Scranton. Fuck Kent Tekulve and his kid toucher glasses. Fuck the Vet and the little league field they play at now. Fuck liberty bells and Ben Franklin. Fuck Andy Ried and McNabb (you fuckers better win this year) Fuck Mitch Williams. Actually that was the only enjoyment I had watching your cock fuck team. He sucked. Fuck this "blog" about your fucking shithole team.

[Kevin]

Drunk Boss here. Fuck you Philadelphia and your white trash fans. I am sick of Utley and his wouldn't be home runs in any other stadium home runs and fatso's raw power and Rollins for being Rollins. Fuck you and your faggot moscot that I have wanted to punch since birth. Fuck mike Schmidt and Lance Parrish. Fuck Von Hayes for having a name that fat neck Chris Berman can make a nickname for. Fuck you for having blue unis in the 80's. Fuck your arrogance for never winning dick. Suck my dick for making me endure that shit hole during football season. Fuck Cunningham for mezmorizing me as a young lad so now Im stuck with this fuck stick of a fotball team. Fuck One nut Kruk, fuck the Flyers and the"hammer" fuck Dr. J fuck your weak ass cheese steaks. Fuck Pat and Gino (Jimmi's is better) fuck you for maing me type my hatred at 3:55 in the fucking morning when my hangover sets in. Fuck the Phantoms, i'll even say fuck Scranton. Fuck Kent Tekulve and his kid toucher glasses. Fuck the Vet and the little league field they play at now. Fuck liberty bells and Ben Franklin. Fuck Andy Ried and McNabb (you fuckers better win this year) Fuck Mitch Williams. Actually that was the only enjoyment I had watching your cock fuck team. He sucked. Fuck this "blog" about your fucking shithole team.

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[Bossanova]

I just did a shot and took a shit. As I took a shit it made me think of Philly. I thought of some more.

Fuck Mo Cheeks, Charles Barkley, Eric Lindros and every other failed center you cock suckers brought in. Fuck Fuck Bobby Abrwwweu, David Akers, Rodney Peete, Bubby Brister, did I mention McNabb, Deuce Staley, Hershall Walker, Rick Shue, your wierd pro lacross team, Fuck Villanova,


Your bullshit city is responsible for Hall and fucking Oates. Yes that shit dick band. Fuck Bill Cosby, fuck LEFTY, fuck righty, fuck my dad for driving me to Philly once, fuck the movie, fuck South Steet, fuck Richie Ashburn, fuck Harry Kalas, fuck Merril Reese, fuck Mike Quick, fuck Jaws, fuck Montgomery, fuck those awful green unis in the 80's and 90's fuck Seth joyner for leaveing the year after I got his jersey. Fuck Seth Joyner for me buying a seth joyner jersey, fuck the Academy of fine arts,fuck Mayor Street who cant even say the name of your city correctly, fuck ROCKY and his fucking statue, fuck the Hooters that is there, fuck Sesame Place, fuck your weak ass zoo

[Bossanova]

Fuck Don Tollefson, fuck Beasley Reese, fuck Bucks County, fuck Fox 29, fuck you and your awful fuckng city. Fucking cock dick fuck shit cock ass motherfucker i hate that city and their fucking teams. And if the Eagles suck again this year I swear to god i may just have to bail on them. Thats how much I hate this fucking team and city. and while Im at it fuck south jersey for being near Philly. Fuck I-95, fuck Delaware, and fuck Bruce Springsteen(just because I hate him0 oh and fuck Bon Jovi for pretending he is from their with his faggot ass AFL team