2008 New York Yankees Thread [Archive] - Page 8

Kevin

12-04-2007, 11:38 AM

Then you're blind. For his first year in the MLB, he did very well and held his own. Most people are predicting he'll do even better in his 2nd year.

Am I hearing right that the Yanks could get this done with Hughes, Kennedy and Melky? Jesus Christ, if so, DO THAT DEAL. That gives you a rotation of Santana, Pettitte, Wag and Chamberlain. Plug a warm body in as the 5th stater and that's a fantastic and proven rotation, AND you get rid of the dead weight that is Melky for one of the best pitchers going.

Seriously.. Are you freakin high?? Kennedy AND Hughes?? How are we better?? No way i am dealing the Minor leauge pitcher of the year, not to mention he looked great while he was up here. And Hughes, who when healthy showed he can dominate. There is NOOOOOOOOO WAY i would do that.. Seriously Fuck that shit.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 11:44 AM

And i do not care what i hear from these so called experts say.. I will believe the Twins are taking that bland Redsox offer, when the trade is official.. I still think at the end, If the keep this stance, and i think they will.. They will come back for Hughes. NO way You pass up Hughes.

Freitag

12-04-2007, 11:56 AM

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 11:57 AM

Seriously.. Are you freakin high?? Kennedy AND Hughes?? How are we better?? No way i am dealing the Minor leauge pitcher of the year, not to mention he looked great while he was up here. And Hughes, who when healthy showed he can dominate. There is NOOOOOOOOO WAY i would do that.. Seriously Fuck that shit.

You're better because you HAVE FUCKING SANTANA AS YOUR ACE NOW. How hard is that to figure out? Go with the proven ace, arguably the best picher out there right now, who is still relatively young, over the "minor league pitcher of the year" and constantly breaking down Hughes any day of the week. Pitchers who continually have injury troubles, especially early in their career, rarely pan out to be extended talents that you can rely on. Again, doing this trade gives you a rotation of Santana, Pettite, Wang and Chamberlain (and whoever steps up to #5), which WILL succeed and is almost guarenteed to be better than Pettite, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain. That first lineup is proven and amazing...go with the SURE THING, goddammit. Getting a pitcher as great as Santana for only Hughes and Kennedy (Melky is a complete dump) is a fuckin' steal.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:01 PM

Hughes getting 15 wins and Kennedy getting 12 kind of wipes away Santana getting 17 wins and a "warm body" getting 10.

Yeah, assume that the "rooks" are going to succeed and ignore the need for an ace to anchor the rotation around. That's smart baseball. Bank on Hughes not breaking down over a full season and Kennedy just automatically carrying over his minor league success instead of having Santana as your ace.

If the Yankees' pitching prospects are so good, filling the 5th spot shouldn't be that hard of a problem. Santana is all but guarenteed to solve some huge problems and is much less of a liability. Relying on 3 players who are basically rookies to cover your rotation is just bad baseball.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:02 PM

Mojo thats not bad baseball thats Yankees baseball

BTW did you hear the Cubs have inquired about Brian Roberts?

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:04 PM

Mojo thats not bad baseball thats Yankees baseball

BTW did you hear the Cubs have inquired about Brian Roberts?

Yeah, it's not a bad idea. They're also looking at Matt Teahen, too.

Though I feel bad bringing up other team stuff here...let's use the MLB thread.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:04 PM

You're better because you HAVE FUCKING SANTANA AS YOUR ACE NOW. How hard is that to figure out? Go with the proven ace, arguably the best picher out there right now, who is still relatively young, over the "minor league pitcher of the year" and constantly breaking down Hughes any day of the week. Pitchers who continually have injury troubles, especially early in their career, rarely pan out to be extended talents that you can rely on. Again, doing this trade gives you a rotation of Santana, Pettite, Wang and Chamberlain (and whoever steps up to #5), which WILL succeed and is almost guarenteed to be better than Pettite, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain. That first lineup is proven and amazing...go with the SURE THING, goddammit. Getting a pitcher as great as Santana for only Hughes and Kennedy (Melky is a complete dump) is a fuckin' steal.

Seriously.. Call up Snoogans and tell him what shit you are taking.. He would be very very interested.. You never trade 2 pitchers of the tallent of Hughes and Kennedy for anyone.. And Santana is not a given.. I am sorry.. He is a 6inning pitcher, his numbers and volocity was down last year.. That is a warning sign for a pitcher.. Again...its like if you dealt Zambrano and Rich hill 4 years ago for a pitcher.. Would you seriously make that deal??

HBox

12-04-2007, 12:04 PM

Has anyone mentioned the Clippard for bullpen help trade?

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317008&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

I know nothing about Albaladejo. Is this a decent move?

Considering Clippard's season and that he has absolutely no place in the organization anymore getting anything for him is a steal. Albaladejo seemed promising in the little work he got last year.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:05 PM

and really lets face it the yankees fans here are acting like the jilted lovers, having to rationalize why the deal would be bad and why their young guys are so great its really typical yankee fan behavior

Lets face it idiot Hank setting deadlines is the worst thing that could happen because now when the yankees say they have a deadline who will believe them, he has significantly hindered the yankees with his comments

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:06 PM

Freitag

12-04-2007, 12:06 PM

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:09 PM

4 years ago... Who would you consider the same as Santana 4 yrs ago?

And i do not think you do this deal on principle anymore.. They are asking for none of the guys together from the sox and asking for BOTH from us? How is that fair?

HBox

12-04-2007, 12:10 PM

Santana has been injured. With all the pitching injuries the Yankees were plagued with last year, I'd much rather have an arm with experience ready to go than putting all the eggs in one basket with Santana. He blows his shoulder out, it's OVER.

BTW, has anybody been amused with Mojo playing the role of me in the past two pages of this thread? It's hysterical.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have Santana on this team. But not for the price the Twins are asking.

Every pitcher ever has been injured. Hughes and CHamberlain have had more health problems than Santana.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:10 PM

Santana has been injured. With all the pitching injuries the Yankees were plagued with last year, I'd much rather have an arm with experience ready to go than putting all the eggs in one basket with Santana. He blows his shoulder out, it's OVER.

BTW, has anybody been amused with Mojo playing the role of me in the past two pages of this thread? It's hysterical.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have Santana on this team. But not for the price the Twins are asking.

Then the Yanks get shit. They'd make out like bandits giving up Hughes and Kennedy. I'd bet good money that Hughes is either out of baseball or in relief in the next 3 years or so.

And how is it "over" if Santana goes down? All I keep hearing is how the Yanks have the #1 pitching farm in baseball. Do they or don't they?

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:11 PM

Every pitcher ever has been injured. Hughes and CHamberlain have had more health problems than Santana.

Exactly.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:12 PM

Seriously.. Call up Snoogans and tell him what shit you are taking.. He would be very very interested.. You never trade 2 pitchers of the tallent of Hughes and Kennedy for anyone.. And Santana is not a given.. I am sorry.. He is a 6inning pitcher, his numbers and volocity was down last year.. That is a warning sign for a pitcher.. Again...its like if you dealt Zambrano and Rich hill 4 years ago for a pitcher.. Would you seriously make that deal??

What are you smoking, only the guilty or wrong need to justify themselves when they are wrong. And lets see about those numbers being down

one less game started this past year then in 2006, same amount of CG, he had one more SO this year, he had 14 less innings pitched, average innings pitched 2006 - 6.87 innings average innings pitched 2007 - 6.64 innings a difference of .238 innings pitched on average per game, he gave up 3 less hits this year, gave up 9 more runs this year, 10 less strike outs then 2006 and his ERA is the only significant change from 2.77 to 3.33 which is still respectable (maybe 6th or 7th in the AL this year)

So really take off your pin striped colored glasses and get a grip on reality

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:15 PM

What are you smoking, only the guilty or wrong need to justify themselves when they are wrong. And lets see about those numbers being down

one less game started this past year then in 2006, same amount of CG, he had one more SO this year, he had 14 less innings pitched, average innings pitched 2006 - 6.87 innings average innings pitched 2007 - 6.64 innings a difference of .238 innings pitched on average per game, he gave up 3 less hits this year, gave up 9 more runs this year, 10 less strike outs then 2006 and his ERA is the only significant change from 2.77 to 3.33 which is still respectable (maybe 6th or 7th in the AL this year)

So really take off your pin striped colored glasses and get a grip on reality

K_O and I are uniting our powers for good.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:16 PM

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:17 PM

K_O and I are uniting our powers for good.

Your Uniting your powers for being wrong.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:17 PM

Bottom line.. I refuse to give up two of my best guys when the other guy is asked to give shit. I am sorry, Lester is a nice pitcher, but he is not Phil Hughes.. And not Both the guys. If the sox were offerin A combo of their 3 guys plus.. Thn yea.. I would say, if you want him, you HAVE to give them.. But fuck that.. I am not paying twice the price as Boston.

Then you get nothing. Good luck with 3 kids making up your rotation, two of which with significant injury history already this early in their careers.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:17 PM

why do you keep back pedaling, you better be careful or you might trip

You talk about Santanas numbers as being bad then when confronted with the facts you backpedal at least be man enough to admit you were wrong on that

Hey i get it that you dont want to give up the farm for Santana but at least be Fox network Fair and balanced

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:18 PM

Your Uniting your powers for being wrong.

its you're not your

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:19 PM

Hey i get it that you dont want to give up the farm for Santana

That's the thing...they're not giving up the farm. They're giving up 2 guys from it and the lump of frozen Steinbrenner turd that is Melky. It's a robbery given who they're trading for.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:21 PM

That's the thing...they're not giving up the farm. They're giving up 2 guys from it and the lump of frozen Steinbrenner turd that is Melky. It's a robbery given who they're trading for.

I really said to not come off like a total dick to Kevin and give him a chance to escape out of his lunacy

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:26 PM

I really said to not come off like a total dick to Kevin and give him a chance to escape out of his lunacy

You are a gentleman, sir.

Knowledged_one

12-04-2007, 12:27 PM

You are a gentleman, sir.

Well it takes one to know one buddy

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:28 PM

*Tips cap*

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:29 PM

Get a room..

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:31 PM

That's the thing...they're not giving up the farm. They're giving up 2 guys from it and the lump of frozen Steinbrenner turd that is Melky. It's a robbery given who they're trading for.

2 top guys is far more important than 5 lesser guys.. Quantity is not always better than quality.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 12:33 PM

2 top guys is far more important than 5 lesser guys.. Quantity is not always better than quality.

That's basically my point. You're essentially complaining that you have to give up two MAYBE decent or better guys to get one PROVEN great pitcher...quaity IS often better than quantity.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 12:38 PM

Look.. If the market demanded it.. And Redsox were offering Lester Els or Bucholtz Els.. Then i say.. You have to do it.. You have no choice.. But i really do not want to be forced into paying twice as much for Santana than Boston..

I still think at the end, the Twins and Yanks will sit down one more time and meet in the middle.. With the Yanks prob saying Take Horne and the twins saying Fine..

Mike and the Dog had Heyman on.. And he said the premise in the Lobby is that if the Twins do take that deal and do not talk to the Yanks offer.. The would really be perplexed..

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 02:30 PM

Sweeny was just on Joe and Eddie Colman (filling in for Evan) And people still seem to think that when its all said and done, he will be a Yank.. And these are all just games.. But the prevailing thought is Hank needs to shut the fuck up and let Cashman do his job.. This guy just does not shut up... I think if things do not change with him, Cashman is gone after this year.. He stayed because George gave him full control.. And now with Hank, that is not the case.

I heard a Boston beat writer Nick Cafardo on Kays show saying he still doesn't believe the Bosox really want him, but may end up getting him anyway. That they were really in it to bid up the price for the Yanks, and are secretly hoping that the Angels swoop in and grab him at the last minute.

That sounds like a delusional Yankee fans pipe dream, and yet thats what's being said in Boston, and not just by Cafardo. Now that the Angels have lost out on Miguel Cabrera (who just went to the Tigers) the possibility of it has increased greatly.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 02:36 PM

In terms of this deal and the player the Yanks would get in return, Melky is the dead weight. To put him out there as if he's part of it the Twins should be glad that they're being offered is absurd.

If Melky is dead weight, then Coco Crisp is Rosie O'Donnell with her brains blown out.

HBox

12-04-2007, 02:38 PM

Meanwhile. Joe Girardi just spoke to us for 25 minutes. He revealed nothing about the state of the Johan Santana talks. But he did say the Yankees would use a six-man rotation and that the rotation as it stands today is good enough to win the World Series.

That's......... interesting. That'll keep the innings down for Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy. It will give plenty of rest for Mussina and Pettitte. Hopefully that helps Wang as well.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 02:49 PM

Pitchers who continually have injury troubles, especially early in their career, rarely pan out to be extended talents that you can rely on.

To be fair to Hughes, he got a hamstring pull when half the team got hammy pulls because some genius in the front office did a marketing deal with some fitness company, hired them to implement a "conditioning program" and within the first month of the season they had a rash of hamstring pulls. Wang, Mussina, Hughes all had hammy's and Damon and Abreu had other various pulled muscles.

After that he had a freak accident where he had a severe ankle sprain when his cleat got caught in the ground while doing drills. That could happen to anyone.

The other injury he had was some minor shoulder inflammation in his first season in A ball, which is not unexpected given thats the most he's ever pitched up to that point. I wouldn't call him Wood or Prior just yet. Plus his mechanics are considered to be good, unlike Wood.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 02:58 PM

That's......... interesting. That'll keep the innings down for Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy. It will give plenty of rest for Mussina and Pettitte. Hopefully that helps Wang as well.

Bingo. Great idea. You could even make Kennedy the #4 since he threw the most innings last year, and make Chamberlain and Hughes #5 and #6. Then either could be skipped altogether when you have an off day, limiting their innings even further. But Girardi's plan alone would mean each guy would get around 27 starts, and would only throw 160-170 innings on average. Wang and Pettite tend to go deep into games so they might get 180-190. I love it.

BoondockSaint

12-04-2007, 02:58 PM

To be fair to Hughes, he got a hamstring pull when half the team got hammy pulls because some genius in the front office did a marketing deal with some fitness company, hired them to implement a "conditioning program" and within the first month of the season they had a rash of hamstring pulls. Wang, Mussina, Hughes all had hammy's and Damon and Abreu had other various pulled muscles.

After that he had a freak accident where he had a severe ankle sprain when his cleat got caught in the ground while doing drills. That could happen to anyone.

The other injury he had was some minor shoulder inflammation in his first season in A ball, which is not unexpected given thats the most he's ever pitched up to that point. I wouldn't call him Wood or Prior just yet. Plus his mechanics are considered to be good, unlike Wood.

Weren't you just posting the other day that the only thing about Hughes that you didn't like was his health? And that you read somewhere that he was going to blow out his arm because of his mechanics?

HBox

12-04-2007, 03:03 PM

Bingo. Great idea. You could even make Kennedy the #4 since he threw the most innings last year, and make Chamberlain and Hughes #5 and #6. Then either could be skipped altogether when you have an off day, limiting their innings even further. But Girardi's plan alone would mean each guy would get around 27 starts, and would only throw 160-170 innings on average. Wang and Pettite tend to go deep into games so they might get 180-190. I love it.

Never would happen under Joe Torre.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:04 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:06 PM

Weren't you just posting the other day that the only thing about Hughes that you didn't like was his health? And that you read somewhere that he was going to blow out his arm because of his mechanics?

Yes, but not quite the way you said it. I think the context was people were doubting whether or not Hughes would be a very good pitcher. Gene Michael and Michael Kay are said to be doubters on Hughes. So I said something to the effect "I have no doubt he'll be a very good pitcher, my only question about him is his health" Which at 21 is yet to be determined.

Also, I forgot the hammy pull was when everyone else had them.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:08 PM

To be fair to Hughes, he got a hamstring pull when half the team got hammy pulls because some genius in the front office did a marketing deal with some fitness company, hired them to implement a "conditioning program" and within the first month of the season they had a rash of hamstring pulls. Wang, Mussina, Hughes all had hammy's and Damon and Abreu had other various pulled muscles.

After that he had a freak accident where he had a severe ankle sprain when his cleat got caught in the ground while doing drills. That could happen to anyone.

The other injury he had was some minor shoulder inflammation in his first season in A ball, which is not unexpected given thats the most he's ever pitched up to that point. I wouldn't call him Wood or Prior just yet. Plus his mechanics are considered to be good, unlike Wood.

Yeah, it's not like Prior suffered hamstring issues and random freak accidents to get him where he is.

Oh, wait.

And you've got Girardi and his "who gives a crap" attitude towards young pitcher abuse points to help run him into the ground a la Dusty. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:10 PM

Also, the piece I posted was one mechanic geeks opinion, and he didn't say "he's an injury waiting to happen" he said he has one part of his delivery he doesn't like, and others he does. Overall he was undecided.

Don't forget there are guys with so-called perfect mechanics who get hurt, and guys with less than perfect ones who never do. Its not an exact science.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:13 PM

Never would happen under Joe Torre.

Guess who's the only manager NOT at the winter meetings? THe same one who was the only one who never showed up when he managed the Yanks. Even with a new job, he still goes out of his way to impress his employer and make sure he's up to speed on everything.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:17 PM

And you've got Girardi and his "who gives a crap" attitude towards young pitcher abuse points to help run him into the ground a la Dusty. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

How does a guy who's willing to go with a 6 man rotation, the only one in baseball, the entire purpose of which is to keep the innings down for his young pitchers, have a "who gives a crap attitude towards young pitcher abuse"? Explain that one to me.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:19 PM

How does a guy who's willing to go with a 6 man rotation, the only one in baseball, to keep the innings down for his young pitchers, have a "who gives a crap attitude towards young pitcher abuse"? Explain that one to me.

Yes, because that'll completely prevent him from leaving them out there too long or, say, bringing them back out after a long rain delay.

I love how the Yankees doing TWO things that generally considered terrible ideas in baseball, relying on a majority of rookies as your starting pitchers and going with something other than a five man rotation in the regular season, are now suddenly examples of how Girardi has "great" ideas.

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 03:22 PM

i will lose respect for girardi if he goes 6 man. The sox are thinkin about it too. Fuck that, pitchers are pampered enough as it is. They used to pitch every other day like men. Stop being faggots

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:26 PM

MLB trade rumors

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 5:02pm: All the Santana-Angels stuff is bogus, according to GM Tony Reagins.

Santana will be a Red Sox. Baseball Prospectus is reporting (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6970) its "all but done".

The Yanks are now the underdog in the AL East. Will all you Yankee haters now turn your attention to the NEW Evil Empire? The team that wins year after year and takes high priced players they don't even need? Does anyone scream "competitive balance" when the Red Sox suck up all the best players?

Which is why I pay no attention to Yankee haters. THe only thing they are consistent about is hating the Yankees.

Bossanova

12-04-2007, 03:29 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:30 PM

Yes, because that'll completely prevent him from leaving them out there too long or, say, bringing them back out after a long rain delay.

I love how the Yankees doing TWO things that generally considered terrible ideas in baseball, relying on a majority of rookies as your starting pitchers and going with something other than a five man rotation in the regular season, are now suddenly examples of how Girardi has "great" ideas.

So . . . . . having his pitchers start 27 games each instead of 32 will end up in them having MORE innings pitched, according to you?

BoondockSaint

12-04-2007, 03:39 PM

That's......... interesting. That'll keep the innings down for Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy. It will give plenty of rest for Mussina and Pettitte. Hopefully that helps Wang as well.

I'm guessing that the original quote was from Abraham's blog. It now reads:

Meanwhile. Joe Girardi just spoke to us for 25 minutes. He revealed nothing about the state of the Johan Santana talks. But he did say the Yankees would not use a six-man rotation and that the rotation as it stands today is good enough to win the World Series.

I guess Girardi ain't so smart after all.

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 03:39 PM

MLB trade rumors

Santana will be a Red Sox. Baseball Prospectus is reporting (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6970) its "all but done".

The Yanks are now the underdog in the AL East. Will all you Yankee haters now turn your attention to the NEW Evil Empire? The team that wins year after year and takes high priced players they don't even need? Does anyone scream "competitive balance" when the Red Sox suck up all the best players?

Which is why I pay no attention to Yankee haters. THe only thing they are consistent about is hating the Yankees.
are you fuckin kidding me? the sox win year after year? what about 06 and 05. What about the fact that the yankees payroll was 80 million higher then bostons while boston was "sucking up all the best players" All the best players as in JD drew? Yea we are signing everyone, so far we resigned lowell and schilling, and .....oh yea, thats it. And we are trading for santana, and you are bitter cause the yanks want him, so now you do this. Would you have posted you are no longer a yankee fan if you guys had pulled off a deal for santana? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:46 PM

I'm guessing that the original quote was from Abraham's blog. It now reads:

I guess Girardi ain't so smart after all.

No, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN. It's BRILLIANT that he leaked that idea for a few hours, tricking teams into adjusting their offseason moves to deal with the terrifying idea of a Yankees' rotation with 3 rookies in it. Now they're all fucked! Suck on THAT, Tigers!

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:48 PM

So . . . . . having his pitchers start 27 games each instead of 32 will end up in them having MORE innings pitched, according to you?

Yeah, sure, that'll fix tossing them out there for numerous games where they throw 110-120+ pitches. But it's fine, because the total number of innings are less.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 03:51 PM

From PA's blog

But remember this: Cashman was ripped in many quarters when the Red Sox landed Eric Gagne in July and he did nothing. How did that work out? Santana is terrific but none of this stuff is automatic.

Which is why I keep bringing up the 6.89 ERA in Fenway. Its only 4 games, but left handed fly ball pitchers tend to fare poorly in Fenway in general. He'll need to become a ground ball pitcher to do well there. Can he adjust? I don't know. But don't tell me the "Sox will win for the next 3-4 years" or that "the AL East is over" with this move. There's a good possibility it will be a bad fit.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 03:52 PM

No, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN. It's BRILLIANT that he leaked that idea for a few hours, tricking teams into adjusting their offseason moves to deal with the terrifying idea of a Yankees' rotation with 3 rookies in it. Now they're all fucked! Suck on THAT, Tigers!

I am gunna love watching Miggy cost them as many runs in that big ass LF of theirs as he produces...

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 03:52 PM

wow are you a fuckin sore loser. The deal isnt even done yet and already you are pullin all this. This has never happened to me with someone on a messageboard, but you are so insane I may seriously hate you

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:52 PM

Comparing Gagne to Santana is ridiculous.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:53 PM

I am gunna love watching Miggy cost them as many runs in that big ass LF of theirs as he produces...

Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that it'll balance out. It won't. That lineup is gonna rake.

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 03:55 PM

by the way, just an update. The cubs still havent done shit

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 03:56 PM

by the way, just an update. The cubs still havent done shit

Nor will they until Cuban owns them. They're considering this a mercy season until they win 7 WS in a row under his guidance.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 03:56 PM

Yeah, right. Keep telling yourself that it'll balance out. It won't. That lineup is gonna rake.

Assuming Sheff isn't done and Maggs is gunna have another ridiculous year..

Kevin

12-04-2007, 03:57 PM

Nor will they until Cuban owns them. They're considering this a mercy season until they win 7 WS in a row under his guidance.

You have a better chance of Hank shutting the fuck up, than Cuban getting approved..

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 03:59 PM

no cuban cant own the team. then the cubs will start sucking up all the good players and the yankees wont be able to win easily, and we all know its only fair if the yankees are winning all the time

PhishHead

12-04-2007, 04:00 PM

Assuming Sheff isn't done and Maggs is gunna have another ridiculous year..

mags stats are always like that, his average was a little higher, rbi a little higher and doubles a little higher for the most part though right in line with his career stats, his hits were alot higher and the first time he broke 200. Maggs will always get great numbers as long as he isnt injured

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 04:15 PM

Andy Pettite apparently has a drinking problem (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317170&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)

The 35-year-old reversed course late Sunday and sent word to the Yankees that he indeed wants to pitch in 2008. Pettitte may even be interested in more: The left-hander told a Houston television station on Tuesday that he feels he could pitch another 10 years.

"I really believe now, especially after playing with the Astros and pitching with my elbow the way it was when I needed the surgery, I realize now I could go out and probably pitch until I'm 45 years old, because I was throwing 82-83 miles an hour and still being able to compete -- maybe because I'm left-handed or whatever," Pettitte told KRIV-TV on Tuesday in Houston.

A week ago he was 90% retired, now he can pitch for 10 more years.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 04:16 PM

Comparing Gagne to Santana is ridiculous.

First off, who made that comparison? Did I miss something? I went back a page and didn't see anything.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 04:26 PM

First off, who made that comparison? Did I miss something? I went back a page and didn't see anything.

That blog you posted further up this page. Comparing them on any level makes no sense.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 04:35 PM

That blog you posted further up this page. Comparing them on any level makes no sense.

You're reading something into that quote that isn't there. Show me where he compares Santana and Gagne as players. All he said was "you never know how any trade works out", which is about as controversial as saying "the sky is blue".

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 04:37 PM

You're reading something into that quote that isn't there. Show me where he compares Santana and Gagne as players. All he said was "you never know how any trade works out", which is about as controversial as saying "the sky is blue".

the sky isnt blue, thats just what you see from the sun reflecting off gasses in the atmosphere. Technically, the sky is clear

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 04:37 PM

You're reading something into that quote that isn't there. Show me where he compares Santana and Gagne as players. All he said was "you never know how any trade works out", which is about as controversial as saying "the sky is blue".

Then why didn't he say that instead of bringing up Gagne, or any specific player? Gagne being specifically brought up implies, whether he wanted to or not, that the trades and/or players are somehow similar.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 04:39 PM

Santana Deal Dead, Say Yankees (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/sports/baseball/05yanks.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1196816879-3NTzLpX5XjQtJn4uk4jAYA&oref=slogin)

“The deadline is the deadline,” Steinbrenner said in a telephone interview. “I extended it a few hours more, and that was it. So it’s done.”

Its over Johnny.

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 04:40 PM

Santana Deal Dead, Say Yankees (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/sports/baseball/05yanks.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1196816879-3NTzLpX5XjQtJn4uk4jAYA&oref=slogin)

Its over Johnny.

"GO TEAM STEINBRENNER!"

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-venture-bros/images/hank-venture-2.jpg

HBox

12-04-2007, 04:42 PM

the sky isnt blue, thats just what you see from the sun reflecting off gasses in the atmosphere. Technically, the sky is clear

What about when its cloudy Einstein?

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 04:45 PM

What about when its cloudy Einstein?

those are just floating tiny particles of ice. Also, the color comes from sunlight reflection, but like ice, those are clear as well

HBox

12-04-2007, 04:46 PM

those are just floating tiny particles of ice. Also, the color comes from sunlight reflection, but like ice, those are clear as well

If it's clear WHY CAN'T I SEE JUPITER??!?!?!?!?!?

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 04:46 PM

If it's clear WHY CAN'T I SEE JUPITER??!?!?!?!?!?

too far away

HBox

12-04-2007, 04:53 PM

At this point I just hope Santana stays with the Twins. I'm fine with the Yanks young pitching. I'm under no illusion that they will be better off for the next couple of years but they have a chance to have couple of young aces in their prime. With Santana you'll be getting the best pitcher in baseball but he's probably already pitched his best year. For a change the Yanks can have these guys when they peak and not have to sign them away from another team after they peak.

Besides, if Santana stays with the Twins the Yanks can just sign him next year and they keep all their young pitching. The market for Santana is turning out like the market for A-Rod. The insane price is driving away everybody but the Yanks and Red Sox, with the Sox either not interested or mildly so. That is unless the Angels and Dodgers are lying. I suppose the Angels might change their mind but I don't care how good their pitching is they will need to hit to get anywhere.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 04:53 PM

Then why didn't he say that instead of bringing up Gagne, or any specific player? Gagne being specifically brought up implies, whether he wanted to or not, that the trades and/or players are somehow similar.

Because then, like now, people were saying the trade was such a no brainer and are penciling them in for the WS next year. As it turned out the Red Sox got to the WS last year DESPITE Gagne, who was a total flop. You never know how these things work out. Especially when it comes to pitchers.

Us Yankee fans have seen a lot of these deals go south. We were all handing out our WS rings after we acquired Randy Johnson, A-Rod, Mussina, Jeff Weaver, Javy Vasquez, and others. And we haven't won one since. And its not just injuries, guys lose their effectiveness and sometimes it comes down to a bad pitch or two a game. In Boston he will have more media and more pressure than he's ever dealt with before. He will pitch half his games in Fenway, which is tough on lefty fly ball pitchers. His ERA in that building is over 6 for his career.

Its fair to bring up.

HBox

12-04-2007, 04:54 PM

too far away

But it's SO BIG! It's gotta be, what? Two, three times the size of Earth!

Snoogans

12-04-2007, 04:58 PM

But it's SO BIG! It's gotta be, what? Two, three times the size of Earth!

perhaps more then that, H

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:00 PM

At this point I just hope Santana stays with the Twins.

I hope he goes to the Pirates. Because all this competitive imbalance is really starting to worry me.
Bud Selig has to do something to stop this out of control greed. Its ruining the sport.

Doctor Z

12-04-2007, 05:01 PM

So... the Detroit Tigers just got a lot better.

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:05 PM

This is interesting (http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=287)

One of my hard-to-get but reliable sources told me around 7:20 p.m. that the teams were still haggling over names. Hmm. . .

With Miguel Cabrera’s future now determined, perhaps the Dodgers will stick a toe in the water, then a knee, then take a plunge. Perhaps the Angels are hiding the truth.

This could be another long night…

Maybe its not a deal after all? This guy has been right more often than anyone about the Twins.
He seems to think this is taking too long.

HBox

12-04-2007, 05:14 PM

I just whipped this together. Feel free to use when appropriate. (http://heyhank.ytmnd.com)

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:14 PM

If it's clear WHY CAN'T I SEE JUPITER??!?!?!?!?!?

WHY CAN'T I SEE URANUS??

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:18 PM

I just whipped this together. Feel free to use when appropriate. (http://heyhank.ytmnd.com)

You wouldn't happen to have a sneaking suspicion that if Hank's pie hole was filled with pie more often this whole negotiation might have gone differently?

TheMojoPin

12-04-2007, 05:29 PM

I just whipped this together. Feel free to use when appropriate. (http://heyhank.ytmnd.com)

You shoulda used the clip of Mattress Man screaming "SHUT UP" from Punch Drunk Love.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_I7Zk4LMvYE&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_I7Zk4LMvYE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

HBox

12-04-2007, 05:40 PM

Rivera identified as shooter in murder. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140889)

:blink:

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:41 PM

I just realized something.

I have over 11,000 posts and I bet 10,000 of them are in the Yankee thread.

Kevin

12-04-2007, 05:43 PM

Rivera identified as shooter in murder. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140889)

:blink:

Hank will have something to say about that in about 5 minutes..

Bulldogcakes

12-04-2007, 05:54 PM

I have over 11,000 posts and I bet 10,000 of them are in the Yankee thread.

Now thats a mod quote right there if I ever saw one.

HBox

12-04-2007, 05:55 PM

Now thats a mod quote right there if I ever saw one.

Beg, why don't ya?

Doctor Z

12-04-2007, 05:59 PM

I just realized something.

I have over 11,000 posts and I bet 10,000 of them are in the Yankee thread.

Welcome to the club.

I basically live in this thread, and occasionally venture out to other forums for brief moments. And then come back here where it's safe... and warm.

HBox

12-04-2007, 09:53 PM

You shoulda used the clip of Mattress Man screaming "SHUT UP" from Punch Drunk Love.

<object height="355" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_I7Zk4LMvYE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>

I wanted to keep it safe for the kiddies.

chubbyknuckles

12-05-2007, 04:49 AM

Even though Dontrelle is a bit of a ? , he could stil have a good year , in that offense, but Good God the Tigers look stacked

Freitag

12-05-2007, 07:22 AM

I'll allow Snoogans and Mojopin to call me crazy and nutty and whatever, but here's my POV:

I didn't want to trade young talent for Johan Santana. Period. The Yankees, in years past, have made big splashes and trades for players and it hasn't added up to much. Yes, we got A-Rod, but for all the production A-Rod has given us, we've also had the issues with Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, etc. etc. (And I know Pavano was a FA signing, bear with me.)

I *like* this team. I LIKE rooting for the underdog. It gets BORING when the team is winning year in and year out. The second half of last year was the most prolonged fun I had being a baseball fan since the 2001 World Series.

The team has good chemistry. I want to see the kids develop. You think the Yankees want to trade away someone in a trade that could be a Scott Kazmir situation? I don't.

The Twins wanted a Maybach from the Yankees and a Hyundai from the Red Sox. You can't compete with that kind of deal. You walk away and establish your own talent and go to war with that. I DON'T CARE IF HE'S THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL. That only gets you so far. Giving up what the Twins wanted absolutely ROBBED the Yankees of ANY injury protection whatsoever.

Satana winning 20 games means absolute CRAP if Pettite goes down with an injury and there's no one there to cover the loss of an arm.

We are coming back with essentially the same team, with an ineffective Clemens gone, Mussina hanging on by a thread, and IPK and Hughes ready to go when Mussina is gone.

I can deal with a rotation of Pettite, CMW, Moose (IPK), Franchise, and Joba. I didn't say it was the best. I said I could deal with it.

Now, if Johan stays a Twin, then all bets are off and I would sign him in a heartbeat next year, but I just do not want to rob the team of youth, injury protection, and most importantly, chemistry.

I said this when the Red Sox won the ALCS and World Series. these were young guys having fun playing baseball. The cabal of Free Agents that the Yankees had between 2001-2007 were businessmen playing baseball.

A.J.

12-05-2007, 07:49 AM

It gets BORING when the team is winning year in and year out.

You felt this way from 1996-2000?

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 07:57 AM

Freitag

12-05-2007, 08:14 AM

You felt this way from 1996-2000?

The team was different then. It was before the Free Agent explosion. It was fun to watch the team, they had a completely different vibe after 2001.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 08:19 AM

The team was different then. It was before the Free Agent explosion. It was fun to watch the team, they had a completely different vibe after 2001.

And you really think they're gonna have that vibe again just because of the terrible baseball decision to man your starting rotation with three rookies? Look at the rest of the team. It's pretty damn far from that "vibe." They're clearly not in ay kind of rebuildin year...not even close. Bringing Pettitte back and resiging Abreu and resigning ARod for the biggest contract in baseball history and trying desperately to dump Melky every chance they get isn't indicative at all of a team trying to rebuild.

A.J.

12-05-2007, 08:21 AM

The team was different then. It was before the Free Agent explosion. It was fun to watch the team, they had a completely different vibe after 2001.

I understand all your other points, but to say that winning gets boring struck me as odd. Winning NEVER gets boring. If it did, nobody would buy those "Got Rings?" t-shirts.

Freitag

12-05-2007, 08:22 AM

Tenbats, why do you keep bringing up a pitcher's wins? That's pretty much the least important pitcher's stat when evaluating their performance, especially on a team like the Yankees with the hitting lineup they have.

In a short playoff series, if the bats crap the bed, I'd rather have multiple arms that can go rather than one and then asking him to pitch again on short rest, which is universally hailed as a REALLY BAD IDEA.

You're misreading my point about regular season wins. We can bring in Santana for what they wanted. That's great. He wins 20 games. But what if another - or even two - pitchers get injured? (Which was the case last year, on multiple occasions). We had the luxury to call on IPK and Hughes. We wouldn't have that luxury, and have to rely on guys like Aaron Small or Tyler Clippard.

What if position players get injured? We'd have NOTHING. Melky would be gone and so would Jackson.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 08:29 AM

In a short playoff series, if the bats crap the bed, I'd rather have multiple arms that can go rather than one and then asking him to pitch again on short rest, which is universally hailed as a REALLY BAD IDEA.

You're misreading my point about regular season wins. We can bring in Santana for what they wanted. That's great. He wins 20 games. But what if another - or even two - pitchers get injured? (Which was the case last year, on multiple occasions). We had the luxury to call on IPK and Hughes. We wouldn't have that luxury, and have to rely on guys like Aaron Small or Tyler Clippard.

What if position players get injured? We'd have NOTHING. Melky would be gone and so would Jackson.

You simply cannot run a baseball team being terrified of "what-if" injuries. Yes, you should be aware of the possibility, especially if certain key players have shown to be injury-prone...but dwelling on it in general over the entire team or rotation, or over players that haven shown a consistent injury history, is going to lead to missing out on a ton of opporunities to genuinely improve your team. Chances need to be taken to step up, not playing it safe...and going with a majority of rookies rotation is NEVER SAFE. That's much, much, much, MUCH more of a risk than what you're talking about, mainly because the odds of them crashing and burning in their first full year of starting is far greater than Santana going down with a major injury, much less 2 of your starters going down with mjor, extended injuries. The Cubs are the exception with that, not the rule.

And planning for a playoff series over the 162-game regular season, or with equal importance, again, bad baseball. That's nonsenical ARod evaluation in pitching form.

Knowledged_one

12-05-2007, 08:46 AM

In a short playoff series, if the bats crap the bed, I'd rather have multiple arms that can go rather than one and then asking him to pitch again on short rest, which is universally hailed as a REALLY BAD IDEA.

You're misreading my point about regular season wins. We can bring in Santana for what they wanted. That's great. He wins 20 games. But what if another - or even two - pitchers get injured? (Which was the case last year, on multiple occasions). We had the luxury to call on IPK and Hughes. We wouldn't have that luxury, and have to rely on guys like Aaron Small or Tyler Clippard.

What if position players get injured? We'd have NOTHING. Melky would be gone and so would Jackson.

Dont the Yankees also have that stunner of an arm Kei Igawa still on their roster (how much for that failed import?)

Also to say you get tired of winning has to be the lamest cop out excuse i have ever heard, i have heard of tired of losing but tired of winning i mean come on that is really just poor.

Face it the Yankees are no longer the class of the league and wont be for a while. And Bulldogs taking a shot at Torre is again nothing but sour grapes show the man some respect he got the Yankees a few titles and deserves some respect

Freitag

12-05-2007, 08:50 AM

And you really think they're gonna have that vibe again just because of the terrible baseball decision to man your starting rotation with three rookies? Look at the rest of the team. It's pretty damn far from that "vibe." They're clearly not in ay kind of rebuildin year...not even close. Bringing Pettitte back and resiging Abreu and resigning ARod for the biggest contract in baseball history and trying desperately to dump Melky every chance they get isn't indicative at all of a team trying to rebuild.

You are acting like these are three double A prospects who have been thrust into the spotlight!

You have three pitchers who had real, major league experience. Yes, they are rookies, but they aren't entirely green.

Pettite, CMW, and Moose (to see what he's got left in the tank) plus three rookies isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 09:04 AM

You are acting like these are three double A prospects who have been thrust into the spotlight!

You have three pitchers who had real, major league experience. Yes, they are rookies, but they aren't entirely green.

The road of basebll history is littered with prospects ad rookies who had agreat half aseason or part of a season or whatever and then got destroyed once the book got out on them and the rest of baseball adjusted to what they had to offer. That's not to say that these guys will fail, but odds are excellent that their previous success was more of a ceiling based on having some talent AND bing very new and relatively unknown that is not going to be reflective of their extended performance.

And Joba's experience was out of the 'pen last year, which is a very different animal than starting in the MLB. You can't really lump him in with the other two in terms of experience.

It's a broken record, but having your stating lineup being mostly rookies is universaly considered a bad idea. With very few exceptions, it's shown to be a recipe for disaster. Not only do you have to worry about their talent not being enough, but it's a HUGE weight psychologically to put on players this young in their MLB careers. It's good to develop prospects, but traditionally it's best to hope for 1 or 2 to make it with your team and the rest can be used to acquire proven players. Holding on to all of your prospects as if all or even most of them will make it has been shown by history and stats to be incredibly shortsighted, ironically, and typically not successful. Most prospects simply do not pan out, period. Trying to rely on 3 at the same time in your starting rotation isn't smart.

Knowledged_one

12-05-2007, 09:07 AM

Mojo you forgot the extra scrutiny they will get playing in NY with the media the way it is

Doctor Z

12-05-2007, 12:36 PM

Pettite, CMW, and Moose (to see what he's got left in the tank) plus three rookies isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

It is when your division rivals have Beckett, Santana (you can make a case for BOTH guys that they are the best pitchers in baseball), Dice-K, and Schilling as their first 4 pitchers. They're gonna win 100 games with a staff like that.

HELLO WILD CARD!

K.C.

12-05-2007, 02:07 PM

New trade announced:

Yankees get:
LHP Jonathan Albadejo

Nationals get:
RHP Tyler Clippard

It's a nice little trade for both clubs. Albadejo was solid out of the pen in limited work for the Nats, and is young. He could be a very nice option for the Yanks, especially as a left-handed specialist.

Clippard was never going to start on the Yanks with their rotation. He will in Washington. I like what I've seen of him in the past. He's obviously not on the Hughes/Kennedy/Joba level, but he's not a bum either. He's got nice upside.

lleeder

12-05-2007, 02:11 PM

Tenbatsuzen

12-05-2007, 02:11 PM

It is when your division rivals have Beckett, Santana (you can make a case for BOTH guys that they are the best pitchers in baseball), Dice-K, and Schilling as their first 4 pitchers. They're gonna win 100 games with a staff like that.

HELLO WILD CARD!

Yeah? And? There's nothing fucking wrong with getting the Wild Card, as long as you're in.

K.C.

12-05-2007, 02:25 PM

If this was yesterday I would have been thrilled upon reading this.

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/axl%20rose.jpg

Yesterdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy's..... got nothin' for meeeeeeeeeeee....

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 04:20 PM

Beg, why don't ya?

Hey, it worked. I was kinda bored of the old one, and Don Stugs was busting my chops about me being in the Yank thread all the time.

BTW-Thanks to whoever the mod was!

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 04:25 PM

Welcome to the club.

I basically live in this thread, and occasionally venture out to other forums for brief moments. And then come back here where it's safe... and warm.

I have the exact same feeling lately. I feel like one of those baby dinosaurs on the beach from "Walking With Dinosaurs" who runs out of the nest, grabs a bite to eat and runs like hell back in here. All the while hoping I don't get picked off by some predator.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Worst...mod...EVER.

Mod quotes are supposed to be a goddamn brand, not a badge of honor.

Doctor Z

12-05-2007, 04:37 PM

Yeah? And? There's nothing fucking wrong with getting the Wild Card, as long as you're in.
I like having 2 options to get in. When there's only 1, and you're going up against a lot more teams, your odds of actually getting in are much slimmer. And that makes me sad.

Kevin

12-05-2007, 04:43 PM

It is when your division rivals have Beckett, Santana (you can make a case for BOTH guys that they are the best pitchers in baseball), Dice-K, and Schilling as their first 4 pitchers. They're gonna win 100 games with a staff like that.

HELLO WILD CARD!

He will not go the Redsox because the Twins never... EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEERRRR Had any intention of taking that Lester package. They thought they could scare us into including Kennedy or Jackson and Horne.. We said, your never taking that offer... Take this one or leave it.. They fucked themselves out of Hughes. And when they get far less for Johan in July, or lose him to FA, the will regret it.

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 04:44 PM

Even though Dontrelle is a bit of a ? , he could stil have a good year , in that offense, but Good God the Tigers look stacked

Call me a contrarian, but I don't love the trade. At least not the Dontrelle part. They basically gave up 5 of the top 6 players they have in their organization. That's all of their depth. God forbid someone gets hurt (and you know they will) they will be starting Flotsam and playing Jetsum in Right field. Depth isn't sexy, but it really helps over the course of a long season. It saved the Yankee season last year. 51-24 after the All Star break and the big 3 pitchers showed up.

The Cabrera part I don't argue with. He's a great hitter and will add to their win total by his presence. Its the Willis part I don't like. I think both he and the guy they gave up for him, Andrew Miller will likely win about the same number of games next year. And thats even assuming Willis has a bounce back year. Miller is one of the top 5 pitching prospects in Baseball, and Dontrelle was awful last year (5+ ERA in the NL). Plus DeLaCruz is a beast out of the pen. 100 MPH fastballs like his don't come around that often. So I don't think it was much of an upgrade in the rotation, and the pen is weaker.

Its possible they insisted on both Miller and Maybin for Cabrera alone, and Dontrelle was more of a throw in. But I still think they've destroyed their depth with this deal and it will hurt them during the regular season.

The Yanks had that very problem last year. When they had a rash of injuries they found themselves starting Chase Wright, Clippard, Rasner, DeSalvo, etc. If they had last April and May the depth they have now, you could easily have added 5-10 wins to their total for the year. Since they ended up with 94 wins, that could have been enough to pass the BoSox right there. Its just another reason NOT to trade Hughes/Horne or Hughes/Kennedy in this deal. They'd end up starting Kei Igawa the minute someone gets hurt, and nobody wants that.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 04:49 PM

Willis is gonna get destroyed next season. His numbers have been steadily declining, and now he's jumping to the AL, and a tough division, too. Smashed.

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 04:59 PM

Willis is gonna get destroyed next season. His numbers have been steadily declining, and now he's jumping to the AL, and a tough division, too. Smashed.

That division will be the toughest in baseball if the Twins hang on to Johan, which is looking more and more likely.

Another thing I didn't love about that deal is the Tigers didn't really need hitting. They were #2 in Runs scored last year. They needed pitching help (9th in team ERA) much more. They seem to be building the kind of teams the Yanks have had lately. Murderers row lineup and suspect pitching. Those teams usually only go so far.

HBox

12-05-2007, 05:29 PM

Willis is gonna get destroyed next season. His numbers have been steadily declining, and now he's jumping to the AL, and a tough division, too. Smashed.

One thing he has going for him is he'll be playing half his games in massive Comerica Park. And he only has to be a #2. I don't think anyone would expect him to be better than Verlander.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 05:31 PM

One thing he has going for him is he'll be playing half his games in massive Comerica Park. And he only has to be a #2. I don't think anyone would expect him to be better than Verlander.

Well, he was pitching down in Florida, which was a cavern, and his numbers kept going up.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 05:32 PM

That division will be the toughest in baseball if the Twins hang on to Johan, which is looking more and more likely.

Another thing I didn't love about that deal is the Tigers didn't really need hitting. They were #2 in Runs scored last year. They needed pitching help (9th in team ERA) much more. They seem to be building the kind of teams the Yanks have had lately. Murderers row lineup and suspect pitching. Those teams usually only go so far.

9th in team ERA really isn't all that "suspect."

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 05:37 PM

another interesting note on that deal (http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/)

As of this moment, if no more changes are made, the Florida Marlins opening day payroll will stand at $8,000,000. I don’t have 2007’s figures in front of me, but in 2006, the Florida Marlins received $31,000,000 from the other teams in the league in revenue sharing assistance. Assuming that stayed the same, 31-8 = $23,000,000 money (the majority happening to come from the Steinbrenners’ pockets and so indirectly, our pockets) that is going right into the owners’ pockets as profit. Along with the little revenue that they actually make themselves. That really chaps my ass.

Great. That revenue sharing plan has really worked wonders.

Bud Selig must have got this idea from the US dept of Agriculture. Maybe he could get George to pay farmers in Kansas not to grow any crops while he's at it.

BoondockSaint

12-05-2007, 05:38 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 05:41 PM

9th in team ERA really isn't all that "suspect."

There's only 14 teams in the AL. That's almost bottom-third right there.

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 05:46 PM

During one of the games Willis pitched against the Mets this year either Darling or Hernandez brought up an interesting theory about Willis' decline. That as he's gotten older his body has been filling out and he no longer gets the same whip action from his arm that he used to a few years ago. They said that it was one of the many reasons that Gooden lost his fastball.

Yeah, I heard them mention that. The Marlins also changed his delivery alot, trying to make it simpler and quicker to the plate and it hasn't worked out well.

I saw you post that you heard the stuff about Detroit looking to spin him off after making this deal. That tells me he was kinda forced on them, and they really don't have any answers they plan on implementing for him. I would have liked to see what Peterson could do with him. Maybe Omar can still swing a deal for him.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 05:47 PM

There's only 14 teams in the AL. That's almost bottom-third right there.

I thought you meant all of baseball.

Didn't they have some pitching injury issues last year?

BoondockSaint

12-05-2007, 05:50 PM

Yeah, I heard them mention that. The Marlins also changed his delivery alot, trying to make it simpler and quicker to the plate and it hasn't worked out well.

I saw you post that you heard the stuff about Detroit looking to spin him off after making this deal. That tells me he was kinda forced on them, and they really don't have any answers they plan on implementing for him. I would have liked to see what Peterson could do with him. Maybe Omar can still swing a deal for him.

Depending on what they would have to give up, I'd definitely take a chance on him. He a 25 year old lefty who has had a lot of success. Maybe you get lucky.

Bulldogcakes

12-05-2007, 05:52 PM

I thought you meant all of baseball.

Didn't they have some pitching injury issues last year?

Yeah. Zumaya, Rogers and Bonderman all went down and some of the Tiger execs were questioning Bonderman's work ethic. Again, they need pitching more than hitting and could have used some more depth last year. Now they have even less of it.

TheMojoPin

12-05-2007, 05:59 PM

Yeah. Zumaya, Rogers and Bonderman all went down and some of the Tiger execs were questioning Bonderman's work ethic. Again, they need pitching more than hitting and could have used some more depth last year. Now they have even less of it.

Unless these were are really serious injuries that are going to carry over to next season, that's not necessarily true.

HBox

12-05-2007, 06:00 PM

Unless these were are really serious injuries that are going to carry over to next season, that's not necessarily true.

Zumaya's is and Rogers is gonna be 73. And Bonderman isn't that great to begin with.

Kevin

12-05-2007, 06:06 PM

Zumaya's is and Rogers is gonna be 73. And Bonderman isn't that great to begin with.

They said Zumaya might not pitch again, even if he does, he won't throw nearly as hard as he did. He really fucked himself up.. And i think he did it moving stuff in his house.

Tigers do not have that much pitching.. I don't care how many hitters you have,, We have proved that its all about pitching

cougarjake13

12-05-2007, 06:07 PM

Zumaya's is and Rogers is gonna be 73. And Bonderman isn't that great to begin with.

what about maroth ???

sailor

12-05-2007, 06:24 PM

I thought you meant all of baseball.

yeah, 9 of 14 in AL and 15 of 30 overall. interesting to note, they were better than only 5 AL teams, but 10 NL teams. isn't the NL supposed to be the soft-hitting, pitching dominant league?

Kevin

12-05-2007, 06:37 PM

Interesting thing i picked up on Joba in the NEXT article on ESPN..

It figures the training interests him. Around the Yankees clubhouse, Joba's workout ethic is known as "Roger-like." In fact, he plans to visit Clemens this winter and maintains, confidently, that he can go toe-to-toe with The Rocket in the gym. "If he can get me to throw up, it would be the first time," Joba said in September. My thumbs are tired, but I'm curious if he incorporates UFC training (minus the punching) into his regimen.

Doctor Z

12-05-2007, 06:38 PM

."I'LL HAVE THE '99 BORDEAUX!"

Kevin

12-05-2007, 06:40 PM

."I'LL HAVE THE '99 BORDEAUX!"

You having some Bordeaux right now??

Tenbatsuzen

12-05-2007, 06:54 PM

."I'LL HAVE THE '99 BORDEAUX!"

CHILEAN SEA BASS WITH SA-FFRON RISOTTO!

Bulldogcakes

12-06-2007, 12:52 PM

."I'LL HAVE THE '99 BORDEAUX!"

It was good year. . .. .

Kevin

12-06-2007, 04:01 PM

If Sabien gives us linciecom or Cane for Matsui.. I nominate him for best GM of all time.

Bulldogcakes

12-06-2007, 04:44 PM

If Sabien gives us linciecom or Cane for Matsui.. I nominate him for best GM of all time.

I don't see anyone outside of those two I'd want from that team. Lowry and the lefty bullpen guy Sanchez both walk WAY too many guys. 4-5 guys per nine. We already have too many guys like that, and we have 6 starters so we don't need Lowry.

But I'm glad to see Cashman looking to deal Matsui. Its a tough call between him and Damon, Matsui has a higher OPS, but I think Damon brings more to the table in terms of fielding and making the lineup go. Matsui's numbers were kind of deceptive last year. He did most of his damage in one month, and the rest of the year he was a double play machine. He's always been streaky, and always prone to DP's when he's in a slump. But at 33 I like the idea of cutting him loose now and getting something back. I'd be happy with some high ceiling lower level prospects for him or some relief help. I was hoping for a deal with the Dodgers, but with them signing Jones it looks less likely now.

BTW-Matsui already played for the Giants.

cougarjake13

12-06-2007, 04:48 PM

BTW-Matsui already played for the Giants.

how is the yoimori giants the same as the san fran giants ??

Bulldogcakes

12-06-2007, 05:00 PM

how is the yoimori giants the same as the san fran giants ??

:tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:

TheMojoPin

12-06-2007, 05:03 PM

I could see the Giants being dumb enough to do this.

They loooooooooooove veterans and apparently love being terrible.

Bulldogcakes

12-06-2007, 05:12 PM

Curt Schilling weighs in on Phil Hughes
http://38pitches.com/2007/12/04/want-to-know-what-a-player-thinks-about-trades-like-this/

The hype around Phil Hughes is big. Projected as a future #1 I didn’t see anything to make me think he didn’t have the ability to get there.

On the surface you have a 21 year old kid who had the peripheral numbers you hope would continue to trend up. He strikes out a good number of hitters and gives up fewer hits than IP. How that projects is anyone’s guess but I’ll trust that the people that project him are good. Bottom line is that being a #1 for Boston or NY is different than being a #1 anywhere else. In addition to the home market aspects of pitching for these teams the fact of the matter is your a #1 in the most offensive oriented division in the game. Finesse and contact guys have a real hard time being consistently good in the AL East. Can he do it? Sure he can. Will he? No idea. The facts are that he didn’t get buried in his first trip around the league but he also didn’t pull a Brandon Webb. The near no-no was probably an indication of his potential on nights he’s on.

For me that was always the way I tried to project young pitchers. Looking at a young guy I always ask “If this guy has all his pitches and is commanding his fastball, what’s his best night line score?”

Some guys best nights is 7ip 4h and 2 runs, that’s their peak. For pitchers like Clay Bucholz you already saw what his best night can be. Josh, on his best night, with his stuff all working and commanding his FB I see his best nights as dominating near no hit shutouts. You could say that Phil Hughes is that guy as well. The other nice thing is that this kid is obviously a late bloomer. Going from undrafted (I’ve since been made aware that he was a #1 pick, I used ESPN to get my information and their player page shows him as undrafted, teach me to trust the media!) to an elite #1 prospect at his age means he either got velocity that pushed his stuff to ++ or he ‘turned a corner’ and mentally understands the game better than most young kids. He’s poised, plus stuff, and has great physical attributes.

For a guy who probably hasn't seen him much, he nailed it right there. Hughes has + stuff, he has solid mechanics, but his #1 attribute is his Baseball IQ.

ralphbxny

12-06-2007, 05:46 PM

On Charlie Steiners show he had on some folks who think hughes is a solid 3 maybe a 2. I tend to agree!

HBox

12-06-2007, 07:01 PM

On Charlie Steiners show he had on some folks who think hughes is a solid 3 maybe a 2. I tend to agree!

I tend to think you're a gay.

Doctor Z

12-06-2007, 07:24 PM

Doctor Z

12-06-2007, 07:29 PM

What are Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright up to these days?

Kevin

12-06-2007, 08:39 PM

Can anyone remember the Last time Espn got a trade rumor right?? They are NEVER right... The last time i can think of is The Beckett Lowell trade...

Dan 'Hampton

12-07-2007, 02:27 AM

Curt Schilling is literally the Bono of Major League Baseball. He has to fucking weigh in on everything, like people give a shit what CURT SCHILLING has to say about it.

Ooh yes, every time something happens in baseball, I'm just DYING to hear the insightful wisdom of Curt Schilling! Retire and get yourself a column and a radio show... but until then, FUCK OFF!

If you don't want to hear him x out his blog. Or any interview he does. You're not being forced to listen to him. Things go down a little different in Nov 2003 and you'd be praising how outspoken he is and how he doesn't give belichick/jeter interviews. Get over it.

Kevin

12-07-2007, 05:07 AM

If you don't want to hear him x out his blog. Or any interview he does. You're not being forced to listen to him. Things go down a little different in Nov 2003 and you'd be praising how outspoken he is and how he doesn't give belichick/jeter interviews. Get over it.

My view on Shilling is this way..

Its OK to be outspoken.. He has been a good enough pitcher, prob a HOF pitcher.. So when your that good, you can talk.. But after that congress fiasco, i do not want to hear a single word he says.. Because he proved himself to be a spineless gutless bastard.. And i get not selling out your fellow guys and not saying anything.. I would prob do the same.. But then do not go running your mouth for years and months before,, how you think Roids is such a problem and if you got the chance, you would really like to do something about it.. Congress hears that, calls you.. And you tell them, do not take me seriously, i just talk.. Well then, that is where you lose all credibility on anything.. How do you expect us to take you seriously on anything else in your life? That is the main problem i have with Shilling.. It has nothing to do with him being a Redsox.. If he pulled that shit, and was a Yankee, i would feel the exact same thing.. You can't knock his heart and ability on the field, but off the field, he is nothing but a phony.

ralphbxny

12-07-2007, 05:40 AM

I tend to think you're a gay.

If you give me a kiss I can put all this Tend to think talk to rest!

Jujubees2

12-07-2007, 05:45 AM

My view on Shilling is this way..

You can't knock his heart and ability on the field, but off the field, he is nothing but a phony.

As opposed to Jason "I'm sorry but I won't admit to what I'm sorry for" Giambi?

Kevin

12-07-2007, 05:49 AM

As opposed to Jason "I'm sorry but I won't admit to what I'm sorry for" Giambi?

That is a different situation.. He could not say anything.. Do you want to loke about 60 mil in money?? And a possible suspension?? Everyone knew what he was talking about. I am not saying he is not a phony, he def is, but with that situation, you can understand more than Schilling.

Doctor Z

12-07-2007, 08:31 AM

Bulldogcakes

12-07-2007, 04:12 PM

Curt Schilling is literally the Bono of Major League Baseball. He has to fucking weigh in on everything, like people give a shit what CURT SCHILLING has to say about it.

Ooh yes, every time something happens in baseball, I'm just DYING to hear the insightful wisdom of Curt Schilling! Retire and get yourself a column and a radio show... but until then, FUCK OFF!

I think thats most people's first impression of him. But if you read the whole Hughes piece and some of the other stuff on his blog, I was actually pretty impressed with how articulate he is. Most athletes may be able to perform at a high level, but then you hear them interviewed and realize they're complete idiots. He's a bright guy, whether you agree with him or not. He also has future as a sportswriter. He's already better than about 85% of them. Outside of New York and Boston make that 98%.

Tenbatsuzen

12-07-2007, 04:18 PM

Can anyone remember the Last time Espn got a trade rumor right?? They are NEVER right... The last time i can think of is The Beckett Lowell trade...

ESPN has fucked up the following stories:

1) Vick won't be indicted
2) Eli has a season-ending shoulder injury
3) Les Miles is going to Michigan
4) West Virginia is going to "Dominate" Pittsburgh. Fuck you Herbstreit.

Bulldogcakes

12-07-2007, 04:19 PM

TheMojoPin

12-07-2007, 05:10 PM

And a guy like Hank Steinbrenner is being slammed left and right for being honest with reporters. He's "making it impossible for Cashman to do his job" and single handedly killed the Santana trade. You can't win with some people.

Hank is generally getting slammed for souning like a moron, because he is.

BoondockSaint

12-07-2007, 06:18 PM

A-Rod’s Properties and Charity Suggest Some Stinginess (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/sports/baseball/07roberts.html?em&ex=1197176400&en=ee6c01dca5de67d1&ei=5087%0A)

In eight years of available documents, donations averaged $30,000 a year and gifts distributed to the community averaged $13,000 a year. In 2002, A-Rod did not contribute more than $5,500. In 2006, the foundation did not give away more than $5,090 despite a fund-raiser that collected $368,000.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2007, 05:12 AM

Interesting take on keeping Santana (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/hot-stove-round-table-part-1/)

Even if Hughes only pans out as a number two or three starter financially the deal will work. And then there is the upside ... it is huge. If you believe Santana is worth $25 million and the Twins are paying him $13 million next year that is a surplus of $12 million. If Hughes is only average he is worth $8 million in free agent money and he'd be a Twin for 5 years ... you do the math. And don't believe for a second that the Twins should keep Santana and pick up two draft picks. Analysis has shown that that is equivalent to acquiring a low-level utility man. Would you trade Santana for that? Thought not.

Draft picks are such a crapshoot, I had wondered what they're worth. You can get lucky like the Yanks did last year with Joba and Kennedy, but thats pretty rare. And to be honest it is still very much undetermined what kind of careers they'll have. The Yanks have the added advantage with picks of not worrying whether a player is "signable" or not. Twins have to worry more about that, devaluing those picks even further.

The stuff above that explains why young players make so much sense for the Twins. They operate differently than most teams and have still managed to field competitive teams.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2007, 05:30 AM

Yanks/RedSox now battling over Bedard (http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1049325&format=text)

According to industry sources, the Red Sox and New York Yankees thus far have made the best offers for Bedard, a 28-year-old who is realizing his potential with the Baltimore Orioles. The primary obstacle in any deal involving the Sox or Yankees is the reluctance of Baltimore owner Peter Angelos to trade within the division, even though the Orioles seem intent on embarking on a full youth movement.

Still, Angelos’ reluctance to deal in the AL East is not the only potential obstacle in the deal. Talent is another. According to one major league source, the Orioles recently discussed Bedard with the Los Angeles Dodgers and asked for a package of prospects that included 23-year-old outfielder Matt Kemp, third baseman Andy LaRoche and 19-year-old left-hander Clayton Kershaw

In addition to a starting pitcher and center fielder, the O’s also are believed to be in the market for a first baseman, shortstop and closer.

Because he's so far away from free agency, they'd really have to be bowled over in order to deal him. They can just keep him and deal him next off season. Unless he has demanded a trade (which has been rumored) or they are worried about his health and want to sell now while his value is high.

If the price tag is relatively similar, Santana makes more sense for the Yanks. They can afford him (despite recent reports to the contrary) and he has a better track record of health and performance.

Dan 'Hampton

12-08-2007, 05:36 AM

Most athletes can't win with some fans and sportswriters. People complain about the mindless cliche's they spout and how boring most of them are being interviewed. Then someone like Curt comes out and gives his honest opinion on a subject and people tell him to shut the fuck up. Paul LoDuca just got ran out of New York for being outspoken. And a guy like Hank Steinbrenner is being slammed left and right for being honest with reporters. He's "making it impossible for Cashman to do his job" and single handedly killed the Santana trade. You can't win with some people.

I agree with your take here. His blog can be interesting. Kinda cool to hear his take on his performance the next day. Usually a lot more techinical that anything a beat writer is going to put out there for you. I guess you gotta realize that we all have our opinions that we think are valid and that we don't mind expressing so why wouldn't someone who has direct involvement with MLB or the Sox have an opinion that he'd like to express too. A lot of the stuff he says that doesn't have to do with baseball gets him a lot of heat up here. Hank has just got to calm down and realize that when he starts making bombastic statements he looks like an ass and then it does make it hard for Cashman to do what he is paid to do.

Dan 'Hampton

12-08-2007, 05:38 AM

Yanks/RedSox now battling over Bedard (http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1049325&format=text)

Because he's so far away from free agency, they'd really have to be bowled over in order to deal him. They can just keep him and deal him next off season. Unless he has demanded a trade (which has been rumored) or they are worried about his health and want to sell now while his value is high.

If the price tag is relatively similar, Santana makes more sense for the Yanks. They can afford him (despite recent reports to the contrary) and he has a better track record of health and performance.

This is a smokescreen. Bedard has great stuff but talk about a head case. We're just playing the part of annoying little brother again. I'd rather have Haren.
Funny how all these pitching trades are held up untill Johan is delt.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2007, 05:52 AM

Mussina wants to PUMP YOU UP (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMzA2NjkmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2)

Chamberlain's fate could be tied to the performance of Mike Mussina, and possibly to Kyle Farnsworth. If Mussina is shaky as a fifth starter, and if Farnsworth fails in his setup role, Chamberlain might be asked to reprise his eighth-inning role to balance the staff.

"Moose is the X-factor," said one person familiar with the Yankees' thinking.

According to the source, Mussina -- who turns 39 on Saturday -- has been participating in a new weight-training and arm-strengthening program. The club also emphasized that Johnny Damon and Bobby Abreu should arrive at camp in better shape than they did last spring.
Abreu, who turns 34 in March, has hired a personal trainer.

Now I'm sure some creative person with photoshop (ahem. . . H-Box . . . ahem) could do something good with that material to work with.

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2007, 06:01 AM

This is a smokescreen. Bedard has great stuff but talk about a head case. We're just playing the part of annoying little brother again. I'd rather have Haren.
Funny how all these pitching trades are held up untill Johan is delt.

http://condodomain.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/manny-grill.jpg
http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/10/12/zim1_zoom.jpg
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/image-files/johnny-damon-hair.jpg

And as we all know, one thing the BoSox won't tolerate is a weirdo.

A.J.

12-08-2007, 10:28 AM

And as we all know, one thing the BoSox won't tolerate is a weirdo.

You forgot Carl Everett.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2001-09-17-inside-everett.jpg

Doctor Z

12-08-2007, 03:53 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-08-2007, 04:30 PM

Looks like the Yankees' search for bullpen help just got even more difficult...

Vizcaino rejects arbitration (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071208&content_id=2321372&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp) (scroll down)

"Reliever Luis Vizcaino also declined salary arbitration from the Yankees and appears to be heading toward his sixth Major League uniform, ending his stay in New York after one year."

With the way Torre abused him last year, I wouldn't give him more than 1 year either. Check out this

ERA
April 5.79
May 9.00
June 0.77
August 1.39
September 10.13

Remember when they had to give him a week off in late August because he had a "tired shoulder"? He never was the same after that. His numbers are bad in May as well, but that was when all the starter were hurt and many relievers had to pitch every other day and often 'take one for the team' as a result. In September, he just flat out sucked.

Let him suck for somebody else.

sailor

12-08-2007, 04:33 PM

With the way Torre abused him last year, I wouldn't give him more than 1 year either. Check out this

ERA
April 5.79
May 9.00
June 0.77
August 1.39
September 10.13

Remember when they had to give him a week off in late August because he had a "tired shoulder"? He never was the same after that. His numbers are bad in May as well, but that was when all the starter were hurt and many relievers had to pitch every other day and often 'take one for the team' as a result. In September, he just flat out sucked.

Let him suck for somebody else.

or, he had two good months and you can't tell what you're going to get from him. either way, no biggie.

Doctor Z

12-08-2007, 04:37 PM

The bottom line is, Vizcaino's gone, and Farnsworth isn't.

No matter how slice it, that sucks balls.

Jujubees2

12-09-2007, 09:16 AM

What are Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright up to these days?

Cashing their Yankees checks!

HBox

12-09-2007, 03:34 PM

So, how does everybody feel about LaTroy Hawkins? I hope you feel good about him...........

Kevin

12-09-2007, 03:36 PM

So, how does everybody feel about LaTroy Hawkins? I hope you feel good about him...........

Oh, yea.. He should do greaaaaaat here..

:wallbash:

spoon

12-09-2007, 03:40 PM

Hank is generally getting slammed for souning like a moron, because he is.

Second.

Kevin

12-09-2007, 03:43 PM

Second.

What?? Making public statements about private negotiations in a big deal, thus making your GMs job harder... IS A BAD THING???

You really can't win in this world..

Bulldogcakes

12-09-2007, 03:50 PM

So, how does everybody feel about LaTroy Hawkins? I hope you feel good about him...........

I'm hoping Ohlendorf, Edwar, Horne, Britton or Whelan or Melancon will put things together. Possibly JB Cox or Sanchez later in the year can help out. Or maybe the new guy Johnathan Yabba dabba doo will pan out or they pull the trigger on that Matsui trade to San Fran.

I know who Latroy Hawkins is, and I don't care what his #s are. He sucks. I can't imagine a bullpen with Hawkins and Farnsworthless as your 7th and 8th inning guys, and Mo a year older. Girardi will be wearing out the grass between the dugout and the pitchers mound.

Doctor Z

12-09-2007, 04:00 PM

Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, and Brian Bruney for Latroy Hawkins, straight up.

(I added Bruney to sweeten the deal.)

Bulldogcakes

12-09-2007, 04:03 PM

I'm also hoping the bullpen as a whole will be more effective with a rational manager using all of them consistently and putting them in the spots where they have the best chance to succeed. Instead of dating some of them and breaking up with others like our last manager did. Having Eiland as the pitching coach could also be useful for keeping the AAA guys like Ohlendorf and Edwar effective.

Edwar really intrigues me as a guy you use here and there for one or two batters 3-4 times a week. His changeup is devastating. He needs regular work to keep the feel on that changeup, and in tight spots where you need a strikeout vs a righty batter he could be the go to guy. I'd also like to see him mix up the fastballs if he can. He seems to throw a very straight 4 seamer right now. Maybe a 2 seamer or cutter will be more effective for him.

JPMNICK

12-09-2007, 04:06 PM

So, how does everybody feel about LaTroy Hawkins? I hope you feel good about him...........

he is getting 4 million, so lets see how he holds up against the pressure

Bulldogcakes

12-09-2007, 04:19 PM

Right now the cast of thousands auditioning for the 6 spots in the Yankee bullpen is as follows

Brian Bruney
Kyle Farnsworth
Jonathan Albaladejo
Chris Britton
Sean Henn
Ross Ohlendorf
Jose Veras
Edwar Ramirez
Kei Igawa
TJ Beam
Jeff Marquez
Alan Horne
Chase Wright

and LaTroy Hawkins.

TheMojoPin

12-09-2007, 04:24 PM

Hawkins and Farnsworth together again?

*Ahem*

HAW-HAW!!!

http://www.luds.net/galeries/nelson.gif

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2007, 02:47 AM

Its Official- Yanks reach deal with vomit face (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071209&content_id=2322048&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2007, 03:02 AM

Here's his #s the last time he was in the AL East

2006 33 BAL W 3 L 2 G 60 IP 60.3 H 73 R 30 ER 30 HR 4 BB 15 ERA 4.48 WHIP 1.459

Thats what I expect from him.

Snoogans

12-10-2007, 07:00 AM

Here's his #s the last time he was in the AL East

2006 33 BAL W 3 L 2 G 60 IP 60.3 H 73 R 30 ER 30 HR 4 BB 15 ERA 4.48 WHIP 1.459

Thats what I expect from him.

nevermind, i read it wrong.
Anyway, I love this signing by the yankees

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2007, 04:09 PM

I look at this signing the way I looked at the Clemens signing last year. I didn't love it at the time, but he's a veteran presence who can help stabilize things until the kids are ready. And given its a one year deal its a low risk move. If he doesn't perform they just bury him in the bullpen or DFA him.

Snoogans

12-10-2007, 04:11 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2007, 04:17 PM

Phillies Have Mild Interest In Mussina
(http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

The Yankees' rotation currently consists of Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, and Ian Kennedy. That leaves both Mike Mussina (owed $11MM in '08, no-trade protection) and Kei Igawa (owed $16MM over 2008-11) without starting jobs. It wouldn't be a bad move to just keep the depth, if you consider it depth. After all, the three kids aren't going to combine for 600 innings. But Mussina and Igawa might be available.

Bob Matthews of the Times-Union Democrat and Chronicle (yes we're really digging for rumors) notes today that the Phillies have "mild interest" in Mussina. The 39 year-old Pennsylvania native may not want to leave New York, but it might not be a bad career move. He's got 250 wins; 300 would be a grind. 280 seems within reach though. What could the Phils offer the Yanks for Mussina? $11MM off their books and some kind of low-level prospect, I'd imagine.

ralphbxny

12-10-2007, 04:44 PM

Phillies Have Mild Interest In Mussina
(http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

I'll Drive Moose to Philly for that!

Bulldogcakes

12-10-2007, 05:00 PM

I'll Drive Moose to Philly for that!

I know, its very tempting. I dunno about Moose. I kind of like having some depth in the rotation, and its VERY unlikely Hughes, Joba or Kennedy will give you any more than 160 innings each. Actually, the Yanks will make sure they don't exceed that to protect them. Plus, you figure someone will always get hurt. I don't want to see Kei Igawa the minute someone goes down. Though as it stands right now Horne would be the first call up.

The Yanks should be straight with him about their plans for next year. Tell him that chances are Kennedy will be the #5 starter. If he's OK with that, keep him. If not, let him go to the NL for a bag of balls and take the payroll relief. He might fare better there and get a chance to pitch every 5th day. He's known to be very fussy, he might want to have a regular slot.

HBox

12-10-2007, 06:07 PM

I'll Drive Moose to Philly for that!

I'll put him, his family and his house on my back and walk them all the way to Philly for nothing.

Kevin

12-11-2007, 09:21 AM

The Twins and Red Sox continue to talk, and there is a sense that the two sides will eventually work out a deal for Johan Santana, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports. The Twins seem to prefer a package built around center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, rather than Jon Lester.

Meanwhile, Minnesota's talks with the Yankees remain dormant. According to a person close to the talks Yankees left-hander Kei Igawa was one of several players the sides discussed last week, along with right-hander Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera.

Mets GM Omar Minaya sounded optimistic about his team's chances of landing Santana late last week, but others have all but ruled the Mets out.

The Angels remain a wild card. The Twins have expressed interest in pitcher Jered Weaver among others, but it's unclear how serious the sides have been engaged.

If he is included in any deal for Santana.. NEVER DOUBT MY INTUITIONS AGAIN... TAKE THAT BEN K!

spoon

12-12-2007, 12:31 PM

Don't know if this was posted yet?

Hilarious!! Great sign boys!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7553182

sailor

12-15-2007, 03:40 AM

dammit, i was really hoping the yankees had a decent chance to get haren.

Bulldogcakes

12-15-2007, 03:48 AM

Haren traded, Santana could be next (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/)

Now that Oakland has traded Dan Haren to Arizona, the Johan Santana chase just got more interesting.

The loser(s) no longer have Haren as a backup plan. The only other No. 1 on the market is Erik Bedard and Baltimore probably isn’t going to trade him within the division.

That should expedite the trade talks. Boston’s interest has cooled considerably since the Winter Meetings. The Mets want in, but won’t give up Jose Reyes. Could the Yankees fill the void?

Brian Cashman has gone J.D. Salinger since Nashville. But Hank Steinbrenner admits that no doors have been closed. This could play out like the Randy Johnson trade, when the Yankees walked away in December only to acquire the big lefty in January.

Before you start dreaming of Santana in pinstripes, keep in mind that Oakland got a load of talent for Haren. Based on the Baseball America list, Arizona traded four of its top eight prospects including its top guy, OF Carlos Gonzalez.

Minnesota didn’t think Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and B-list prospect was enough earlier this month. They certainly aren’t settling for that package now.

I have always thought that exact thing. THe Yanks and D-Backs walked away a few times before making the deal.

I still think the price will be nowhere near Haren, however. You have to factor in that Haren is signed for 3 years at a cheap rate, whereas Santana's is signed for one expensive year (13 mil) and his agent is now demanding SEVEN years/140 mil (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/12493231.html) which reduces his trade value.

The Yanks are also reported to be getting back involved
all
(http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/15/2007-12-15_hank_steinbrenner_yankees_chat_up_twins_.html)o ver
(http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_7727414?nclick_check=1)the
(http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1197697119317400.xml&coll=1)place (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/12519816.html)

Kevin

12-15-2007, 07:21 AM

Haren traded, Santana could be next (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/)

I have always thought that exact thing. THe Yanks and D-Backs walked away a few times before making the deal.

I still think the price will be nowhere near Haren, however. You have to factor in that Haren is signed for 3 years at a cheap rate, whereas Santana's is signed for one expensive year (13 mil) and his agent is now demanding SEVEN years/140 mil (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/12493231.html) which reduces his trade value.

The Yanks are also reported to be getting back involved
all
(http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/15/2007-12-15_hank_steinbrenner_yankees_chat_up_twins_.html)o ver
(http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_7727414?nclick_check=1)the
(http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1197697119317400.xml&coll=1)place (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/12519816.html)

Why the fuck does Hank still fnd it necessary to talk about every fucking move they are trying to make? SHUT THE FUCK UP!.. I am afraid this buffoon is going to really fuck this franchise up.. Cashman is going to leave.. And the team is going to be like the Yes. Where no competent announcer will go there because they are not allowed to be themselves and speak the truth. No real GM is going to want to come here, when they know this fucking ass clown buffoon is going to compromise every negotiation by airing it to everyone that asks him... I am really worried about this team and its future, because of this fucking moron..

BoondockSaint

12-15-2007, 07:47 AM

I like Hank.

Doctor Z

12-15-2007, 07:59 AM

What page better than 79 to do a check on the ole' list...

* Will Joe Torre be back? If not, then who?
No. Joe Girardi.

* Will A-Rod be back?
Yes. $275m + incentives, over 10 yrs.

* Will Pettitte pick up his option?
No, but he does re-sign. $16m for 1 yr.

* Will Mariano be re-signed?
Yes. $45m over 3 yrs.

* Will Posada be re-signed?
Yes. $52m over 4 yrs.

* Will the Yankees pick up Abreu's option?
Yes. $16m for 1 yr.

* Will the Yankees pursue Johan Santana?
TBD.

* Is Mussina finally done?
Yes, but he will likely remain on the team (unless Philly actually is interested).

* Is Clemens finally done?
Yes.

* What does the Yankees' rotation look like next year?
Right now: Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, and some mix of Chamberlain/Mussina/Kennedy. But this is almost definitely going to change before opening day.

* Is Joba in that rotation? Or does he stay in the bullpen?
Going into the season, he is in the rotation.

* ...giambi?
Still alive.

HBox

12-15-2007, 11:12 AM

Haren traded, Santana could be next (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/)

I have always thought that exact thing. THe Yanks and D-Backs walked away a few times before making the deal.

I still think the price will be nowhere near Haren, however. You have to factor in that Haren is signed for 3 years at a cheap rate, whereas Santana's is signed for one expensive year (13 mil) and his agent is now demanding SEVEN years/140 mil (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/12493231.html) which reduces his trade value.

The Yanks are also reported to be getting back involved
all
(http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/15/2007-12-15_hank_steinbrenner_yankees_chat_up_twins_.html)o ver
(http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_7727414?nclick_check=1)the
(http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1197697119317400.xml&coll=1)place (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/12519816.html)

I hope this works out like with A-Rod, where we get Santana and the Twins get exactly what they wanted in the first place and we end up paying much higher than anyone else was even willing to go.

Oh wait...............

Bulldogcakes

12-15-2007, 03:35 PM

Why the fuck does Hank still fnd it necessary to talk about every fucking move they are trying to make? SHUT THE FUCK UP!.. I am afraid this buffoon is going to really fuck this franchise up.. Cashman is going to leave.. And the team is going to be like the Yes. Where no competent announcer will go there because they are not allowed to be themselves and speak the truth. No real GM is going to want to come here, when they know this fucking ass clown buffoon is going to compromise every negotiation by airing it to everyone that asks him... I am really worried about this team and its future, because of this fucking moron..

You're right, but give him a chance. He just took over the club and he'll learn how the off season game is played. These are rookie mistakes he's making. He's just being himself, answering questions people ask him. I don't think he's anywhere near as impulsive or bombastic as George was, He'll be fine. He's letting Cashman do his job, which was something George rarely did.

And Cashman would be stupid to go elsewhere. His family is rooted here, and he makes double what any other GM makes. No other job gives him these kinds of resources to work with (minor/major league), and a chance to win each year. Cashman is no fool.

Bulldogcakes

12-15-2007, 03:50 PM

I hope this works out like with A-Rod, where we get Santana and the Twins get exactly what they wanted in the first place and we end up paying much higher than anyone else was even willing to go.

Oh wait...............

When you factor in a little thing called inflation, and then consider that baseball salaries have been rising at least double what it is in the rest of the country, the A-Rod contract is actually a steal. Not only that, it's front loaded, and his salary DECLINES in the last 3 years (although he may make that up in incentives). They didn't ask him to take a pay cut, which would have made both A-Rod and the Yanks look bad if they did that. Plus, he could have been upset if he felt the Yanks really stuck it to him, and you want him to be happy playing here and give his best efforts. Screwing him over does neither side any good.

With regular baseball salary inflation (8-10%), those dollars will be worth less than 1/2 what they are today by the end of the deal. That means in todays dollars the 20 mil he gets in the last 3 years will be like paying him 8-10 mil today. Thats a steal, even for a 40-42 year old DH named A-Rod.

The only way the Yanks get hurt with the A-Rod deal is if Bud Selig finds a urine test for HGH :wink:

Bulldogcakes

12-15-2007, 05:12 PM

Here's the explanation for Latroy Vomit face (http://www.nomaas.org/)

Yanks choose draft pick over player

Cashman's emphasis on the amateur draft has once again become readily visible:
:
The Rockies are close to signing a multiyear contract with right-handed reliever Luis Vizcaino, who went 8-2 with a 4.30 ERA in 77 relief appearances with the Yankees last season.

By allowing Vizcaino to walk, the Yankees receive a sandwich pick in next year's amateur draft. Since Vizcaino is a type B free agent, the Bombers will obtain a selection between the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft, thus the "sandwich." In 2006, Joba Chamberlain was a sandwich pick selection.

The organization's emphasis on the draft cannot be overstated. According to various sources, Vizcaino's contract will be somewhere around 2 years, $7 million total. That is a reasonable contract for a pitcher of Vizcaino's quality. Contrary to what may be popular belief, he has been an effective middle reliever over the past several years. If you look at his last three seasons, including his one year with NY, he has held hitters to a .243 BA / .329 OBP / .398 SLG / .727 OPS. Also, he was lights-out for the Yankees in July & August. You could make an argument that he would have been even more effective for NY if the Bullpen Maestro didn't have a man-crush on him.

The overall point is that the Yankees passed on a reasonable contract for a useful reliever in order to obtain a high selection in the upcoming draft. This further confirms Brian Cashman's control over baseball operations and the importance he has placed on building from within the farm system.

Look back to what Cashman said on June 4, 2007, right before the most recent draft:

There's no doubt, there was a period of time when we disregarded how important the Draft really is," Cashman said. "That's changed. There are players I passed on last year as free agents that had No. 1 picks attached to them. I wasn't giving up our No. 1 pick. We need that for our future.

"[The Draft] is huge. It's vital. One of the reasons we're struggling now is that we're paying for sins of the past." (Source)

And Cashman has everyone else on board with this strategy. On December 5, 2007, Hank Steinbrenner offered the following comments:

“Our goal is to be self-sufficient,” Steinbrenner continued, repeating a theme, “like the Yankees used to be, and do it through the draft and Latin America. Our guys are the best scouts in baseball, and they’ve proven that over the last few years. It’s unbelievable the job Damon Oppenheimer and his scouts have done. That’s what’s got to continue.” (Source)

This is how the Yankees think now. Player development is front and center. It is also makes you wonder why certain people think Cashman has lost control. They couldn't be more wrong.

Looking at what teams are asking for guys like Haren, Santana and Cabrera its understandable why he would think this way. The Yanks also have an edge in the draft in the same way they do in free agent signings. Very talented players will often ask for huge bonuses, and many teams will pass on them for "signability" reasons. The Yanks will write the big checks to get talent, so they can get players who would otherwise be drafted higher even picking at the bottom of the draft (as they usually do). They will even go a step further and take players with high ceilings but have health concerns. That was how they got Joba, Hughes and Brackman last year. They can afford to BOTH write big bonus checks and wait for them to recover from Tommy John surgery. Most other teams simply won't do that.

That being said, he better have somebody(s) better than LaTroy coming up from AAA next year, or this is a bad move for next years team.

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 05:27 AM

YANKEES STAND FIRM IN SANTANA TRADE TALKS (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162007/sports/yankees/yankees_stand_firm_in_santana_trade_talk_540598.ht m)

one thing hasn't changed: The Yankees will not give up two young pitchers to get the best pitcher in baseball.

Minneapolis reports goes further (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/12536356.html)

Yanks Won't give up Hughes

Twins General Manager Bill Smith said he was told by Yankee GM Brian Cashman that when lefthander Andy Pettitte decided not to retire and instead pitch in 2008, New York lost interest in trading for Johan Santana.

Well, my Yankees sources tell me that they are not going to give up pitcher Phil Hughes in any deal. Cashman doesn't want to give up Hughes, who nearly pitched a no-hitter last year against Texas before having to leave because of an injury.

But no doubt the Yankees don't want the Red Sox to get Santana, so there always is a chance they change their minds.

That sounds good to me. I think we can put the Bosox garbage to rest now, and trading Hughes will be a mistake.

Also, for the blockheads who say the Yanks are "going back on their word" by negotiating with the Twins after Hanks deadline, you're lost. Hank said the Hughes deal was off the table after that deadline. If they take Hughes out of the deal, he kept his word. Just like he did when he said "The Yanks wouldn't pursue A-Rod as a free agent" and they didn't.

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 07:00 AM

With regular baseball salary inflation (8-10%), those dollars will be worth less than 1/2 what they are today by the end of the deal. That means in todays dollars the 20 mil he gets in the last 3 years will be like paying him 8-10 mil today. Thats a steal, even for a 40-42 year old DH named A-Rod.

The only way the Yanks get hurt with the A-Rod deal is if Bud Selig finds a urine test for HGH :wink:

Sorry to quote myself, but I just read that revenues have increased from 1.2 billion in 1995 to 6.1 billion in 2007. A little quick math and thats roughly 14% annual increase. Salaries tend to mirror revenues, so the A-Rod contract is even cheaper than I thought. If present trends continue those dollars will be worth less than 1/3 what they are now, meaning he'll be making the equivalent of around 6mil in todays dollars for the last few years of the deal.

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 07:41 AM

Sorry to quote myself, but I just read that revenues have increased from 1.2 billion in 1995 to 6.1 billion in 2007. A little quick math and thats roughly 14% annual increase. Salaries tend to mirror revenues, so the A-Rod contract is even cheaper than I thought. If present trends continue those dollars will be worth less than 1/3 what they are now, meaning he'll be making the equivalent of around 6mil in todays dollars for the last few years of the deal.

the first time he signed a 10 year deal at 25 a year, by the end of it it was still like spending 25 million. So, no, it's not cheap.

edit: and just because they make more money, doesnt mean dollars are going to be worth less. Idiot

BoondockSaint

12-16-2007, 07:45 AM

Sorry to quote myself, but I just read that revenues have increased from 1.2 billion in 1995 to 6.1 billion in 2007. A little quick math and thats roughly 14% annual increase. Salaries tend to mirror revenues, so the A-Rod contract is even cheaper than I thought. If present trends continue those dollars will be worth less than 1/3 what they are now, meaning he'll be making the equivalent of around 6mil in todays dollars for the last few years of the deal.

But don't forget that revenues were way down after the strike in '94. It took a few years to get back to normal. So you can't expect that 14% increase every year for the next 10 years.

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 07:46 AM

But don't forget that revenues were way down after the strike in '94. It took a few years to get back to normal. So you can't expect that 14% increase every year for the next 10 years.

also, this is the reason they backload contracts. So that they are still worth the same every year. You are so completely wrong.

Dan 'Hampton

12-16-2007, 08:24 AM

Hank will jump in last min and give what the twins want. He can't help it. I feel bad for Cashman. He really deserves a post where he'd be allowed to cultivate young players and not just have them taken away and used to buy FA's.

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 09:16 AM

the first time he signed a 10 year deal at 25 a year, by the end of it it was still like spending 25 million. So, no, it's not cheap.

edit: and just because they make more money, doesnt mean dollars are going to be worth less. Idiot

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man" -Oscar Wilde

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 09:25 AM

But don't forget that revenues were way down after the strike in '94. It took a few years to get back to normal. So you can't expect that 14% increase every year for the next 10 years.

Thats fair, and I wondered the same thing as I was figuring that out. But 12 years is a pretty long time, and with both NY teams getting new stadiums I can't see the Yanks revenues going down anytime soon. Even if overall revenues slow down to 8-10% annual growth, then my first post applies. Its really not a question of whether or not it will be more affordable, just how much. And part of my original point was the contract is front loaded, which is unusual in Baseball.

PhishHead

12-16-2007, 09:26 AM

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man" -Oscar Wilde

since ive never met someone dumber, this will be my last comment to you. Contracts are backloaded 8-10% a year so that, by economy, they are worth the same the whole time, therefore, AROD CONTRACT WILL ALWAYS BE A HUGE DEAL. Stop being stupid

Kevin

12-16-2007, 09:28 AM

Wow! Usually mild mannered Phish, laying the smackethdown on BDC's Candy ass!

PhishHead

12-16-2007, 10:04 AM

and yes I realize ARod particular contract is front loaded, but because of that bullshit incentive thing. If Arod even gets to 700 the back years of the contract will still be almost what the front ones are, more if he gets to Bonds

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 10:04 AM

Wow! Usually mild mannered Phish, laying the smackethdown on BDC's Candy ass!

Nah, I learned a long time ago that some people just aren't worth wasting your time on.

PhishHead

12-16-2007, 10:05 AM

and the money in this deal is like the same, pretty much, that he got from texas 7 years ago. By your logic, 25 million should be like pennies now if it was a big deal 7 years ago

Kevin

12-16-2007, 10:33 AM

Phish has to fight Snoogans battles now??

I guess he really is unarmed...

PhishHead

12-16-2007, 10:34 AM

Shut up, dick, you know this is Snoogans, Shit even Boss figured it out

Bossanova

12-16-2007, 10:40 AM

Shut up, dick, you know this is Snoogans, Shit even Boss figured it out

You son of a bitch:furious:

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 11:25 AM

hahaha, i didnt even mean it that way, but man is it way funnier now

Bossanova

12-16-2007, 11:26 AM

hahaha, i didnt even mean it that way, but man is it way funnier now

HAHA. I feel ya kid

HBox

12-16-2007, 12:55 PM

In both A-Rod's Texas contract and NY contract this is the same: No one else was willing to pay anywhere near what he ended up getting. The more I think about it the more I think Boras is a genius. He was able to test the market, saw it was cold and still got what A-Rod would have gotten in the first place.

TheGameHHH

12-16-2007, 01:08 PM

how does getting what you would have gotten make you a genius?

HBox

12-16-2007, 01:15 PM

how does getting what you would have gotten make you a genius?

When the other side is saying "We're not going to sign you" and then they do sign you and give you everything you wanted.

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 01:17 PM

When the other side is saying "We're not going to sign you" and then they do sign you and give you everything you wanted.

but no, HBox, didnt you hear BDC? ARod's deal is only gonna be worth like 5 mill by the time you are into the later years

HBox

12-16-2007, 01:18 PM

but no, HBox, didnt you hear BDC? ARod's deal is only gonna be worth like 5 mill by the time you are into the later years

DAMMIT HE'S RIGHT! I'm not taking into account the declining value of the dollar versus the yen!

Kevin

12-16-2007, 01:20 PM

DAMMIT HE'S RIGHT! I'm not taking into account the declining value of the dollar versus the Paso!

fiixed!

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 01:20 PM

DAMMIT HE'S RIGHT! I'm not taking into account the declining value of the dollar versus the yen!

yea, so if he gets to 762 HRs, its only gonna cost like another 80 bucks by then. No big deal

TheGameHHH

12-16-2007, 01:21 PM

When the other side is saying "We're not going to sign you" and then they do sign you and give you everything you wanted.

but by your logic somebody was going to sign him to that amount anyway. its what he would have gotten in the first place.

Kevin

12-16-2007, 01:22 PM

yea, so if he gets to 762 HRs, its only gonna cost like another 80 bucks by then. No big deal

And by the time his deferred money gets payed, this contract will look like a minor leauge deal..

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 01:22 PM

but by your logic somebody was going to sign him to that amount anyway. its what he would have gotten in the first place.

no. He is sayin you offered him that. He said no, couldnt get near it, and then like assholes, the yankees still gave him the same thing. Thats why boris is a genius

HBox

12-16-2007, 01:23 PM

but by your logic somebody was going to sign him to that amount anyway. its what he would have gotten in the first place.

No, the Yanks were going to sign him for that. He walked away from that and then came back to it.

HBox

12-16-2007, 01:24 PM

Hell, we'll be lucky if the United States Dollar is still a recognized by the time his contract ends.

TheGameHHH

12-16-2007, 01:25 PM

no. He is sayin you offered him that. He said no, couldnt get near it, and then like assholes, the yankees still gave him the same thing. Thats why boris is a genius

but wasnt this deal made without boras? i thought a-rod negotiated it. thats where im getting confused on boras being a genius here. yea he gets his percentage cut, but he didnt do anything to warrant a genius label.

Dan 'Hampton

12-16-2007, 01:26 PM

He'll be paid in Euros. Giselle is a pioneer.

Kevin

12-16-2007, 01:26 PM

Hell, we'll be lucky if the United States Dollar is still a recognized by the time his contract ends.

Everyone will get payed in rubles by then.

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 01:27 PM

but wasnt this deal made without boras? i thought a-rod negotiated it. thats where im getting confused on boras being a genius here. yea he gets his percentage cut, but he didnt do anything to warrant a genius label.

yea, cause that would be illegal. And, you dont think that Boris had somethin to do with that, also, but is still gonna get paid. Get the fuck outta here. Where did common sense go in this country, down the same toilet as our dollar?

Dan 'Hampton

12-16-2007, 01:29 PM

but wasnt this deal made without boras? i thought a-rod negotiated it. thats where im getting confused on boras being a genius here. yea he gets his percentage cut, but he didnt do anything to warrant a genius label.

Hank helped by making it look like AROD was gone for good. You all hated him and then Hank brought him back and signed him to a TEN (That would be 10) year contract for the most money in baseball history. If Hank had been smart he would have low-balled Arod and signed him for less seeing that no one else was going to pay him 300 mil. Hey it gives you another Boras signing to bitch about when Caveman is done.

HBox

12-16-2007, 01:32 PM

but wasnt this deal made without boras? i thought a-rod negotiated it. thats where im getting confused on boras being a genius here. yea he gets his percentage cut, but he didnt do anything to warrant a genius label.

Boras had to prepare the contract. The Yankees would get in huge trouble with MLBPA if they said to A-Rod "Boras can't be involved in this." There are rules against that.

Kevin

12-16-2007, 01:33 PM

Hank helped by making it look like AROD was gone for good. You all hated him and then Hank brought him back and signed him to a TEN (That would be 10) year contract for the most money in baseball history. If Hank had been smart he would have low-balled Arod and signed him for less seeing that no one else was going to pay him 300 mil. Hey it gives you another Boras signing to bitch about when Caveman is done.

Winning the WS does not totally mask your asinine signings either.. Sox fans should not be one to talk... Coco, Drew, Lugo.. Taverez.. and so on and so on...

Dan 'Hampton

12-16-2007, 01:55 PM

Winning the WS does not totally mask your asinine signings either.. Sox fans should not be one to talk... Coco, Drew, Lugo.. Taverez.. and so on and so on...

Fortunatly we can pin that on our GM and not a co-owner who makes bombastic asinine statements to the media.
Coco? That was a cheap deal, part of the deal that got us players used for Beckett. Not much of a hitter but an outstanding outfielder. And on the cheap too. Tavarez was terrific for what we needed him to do. Spot starts. Lugo, Drew yeah not good deals but winning WS tends to make you forget about that.

RogerDornShortHops

12-16-2007, 02:17 PM

ARod on 60 Minutes tonight.

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 04:26 PM

Doctor Z

12-16-2007, 04:29 PM

When does 60 Minutes air? (If it hasn't already.)

Snoogans

12-16-2007, 04:33 PM

I'll try explaining this again to some of you folks, even though its probably pointless.

Yanks revenues are currently 277 million (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Rank_1.html) dollars

Here's A-Rods contract (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/13/breaking-down-a-rods-new-deal/), he makes 27 mil in 2008

Thats 10% of gross revenues

If the Yanks increase revenues by 10% annually (less than the current 14% MLB average annual increase) they will have gross revenues of 720 million in ten years (2017). A-Rod is scheduled to make 20 million dollars in 2017.

Thats less than 3% of revenues.

If A-Rod was making 3% of the Yankees current revenues, he would be earning 8 mil per year.

I'll say it again. A-Rods contract in the out years of the deal, is a bargain by any measure.
yea and you are using a growth rate from the worst earnings time to the best. Over the past 12 years, baseball has grown from a very low point. There is no way they will continue to grow at the same rate. Also, you guys crack 4 mill in attendance. you cant go much higher, so there is much more limited ways to grow your income, short of completely jacking ticket prices which would hurt attendance in the long run. You have to look at big pictures, not just the insanity you come up with in your own head

Bulldogcakes

12-16-2007, 04:56 PM

yea and you are using a growth rate from the worst earnings time to the best. Over the past 12 years, baseball has grown from a very low point. There is no way they will continue to grow at the same rate. Also, you guys crack 4 mill in attendance. you cant go much higher, so there is much more limited ways to grow your income, short of completely jacking ticket prices which would hurt attendance in the long run. You have to look at big pictures, not just the insanity you come up with in your own head

They have a new stadium coming loaded with luxury boxes. If you've ever been to StubHub, you'll know that people are already willing to spend more than the Yanks currently charge for seats. And in case you didn't notice this, I'll post it again

If the Yanks increase revenues by 10% annually (less than the current 14% MLB average annual increase)

I already scaled back growth by almost a third. Try again, son.