2008 New York Yankees Thread [Archive] - Page 6

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TheGameHHH

11-12-2007, 04:10 PM

*sniff* *sniff* What's that smell in here? Does somebody own a bull?

again, why is that bullshit? he said he'd like to remain with the yankees and thats his first choice. i never once heard him say, 'i will not test free agency'. its as simple as he said it, he'd like to remain with the Yankees, but who knows whats might be best

Kevin

11-12-2007, 04:16 PM

*sniff* *sniff* What's that smell in here? Does somebody own a bull?

http://dyn.ifilm.com/resize/image/stills/films/resize/istd/2814214.jpg?width=130
Err.. What??

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2007, 04:18 PM

again, why is that bullshit? he said he'd like to remain with the yankees and thats his first choice. i never once heard him say, 'i will not test free agency'. its as simple as he said it, he'd like to remain with the Yankees, but who knows whats might be best

You know, as a fan I care about the team. The players come and go. Fuck both of them. Their best days are behind them anyway. This was going to be their one last big contract, a thanks for all the good years they spent here and they both say "Nope, I can do better elsewhere". Let them go leave for an extra year or an extra 1-2 mil annually. Both of them have probably pulled about 60-70 mil from the Yanks over the course of their career, but now they want to test the market. Fine, be my guest. The Yanks will have Joba close next year and Molina can platoon with someone who hits lefties. Life goes on.

HBox

11-12-2007, 04:22 PM

Kevin

11-12-2007, 04:26 PM

You know, as a fan I care about the team. The players come and go. Fuck both of them. Their best days are behind them anyway. Let them go leave for an extra year or an extra 1-2 mil annually. Both of them have probably pulled about 60-70 mil from the Yanks over the course of their career, but now they want to test the market. Fine, be my guest. The Yanks will have Joba close next year and Molina can platoon with someone who hits lefties. Life goes on.

I do not get your animosity towards these guys at all.. They both said they will test the market and see whats best for both their family's..

Loyalty? You expect Loyalty from them? The owe us jack shit.. They made 60-70 mil because the earned it. It was not given to them.. Unlike some people on this team...

Why should they be loyal? Why should they not test the market and want as much as they can get?? Yanks show absolute ZERO loyalty when the caved to Arod and broke their long time tradition of not negotiating with players during the season, then told Mo and Po (yick) NOPE! That doesn't stand for you... You gave us 12 years 4 titles, and he gave s jack.. But he is more important to us.. I would be pissed at us too.. Hell, i wouldn't even wanna re sign..

Game.. now THIS is being pompous..

TheGameHHH

11-12-2007, 04:28 PM

You know, as a fan I care about the team. The players come and go. Fuck both of them. Their best days are behind them anyway. This was going to be their one last big contract, a thanks for all the good years they spent here and they both say "Nope, I can do better elsewhere". Let them go leave for an extra year or an extra 1-2 mil annually. Both of them have probably pulled about 60-70 mil from the Yanks over the course of their career, but now they want to test the market. Fine, be my guest. The Yanks will have Joba close next year and Molina can platoon with someone who hits lefties. Life goes on.

and you know as a fan that i want both of them back. but i also have no problem with free agency. its my opinion that they're earned the right to test the market, especially with the silly "Yankees policy" of not offering extensions in season. blind loyality is exceptionally rare in professional sports today, it shouldn't be expected from anybody. I said from the beginning that I don't expect the trio of Pettitte/Mo/Posada to all come back. It now is looking more and more like retirement for Andy. I'm pretty confident that Mo comes back simply because the demand will not be there for him. But I would expect the Mets to make a real hard move for Posada. And if he gets that extra year and X more amount of dollars to jump to Queens, then good for him. He stays in New York and gets what he's looking for. he's earned that right, especially because he put up some amazing numbers last season for a catcher his age.

TheGameHHH

11-12-2007, 04:29 PM

I do not get your animosity towards these guys at all.. They both said they will test the market and see whats best for both their family's..

Loyalty? You expect Loyalty from them? The owe us jack shit.. They made 60-70 mil because the earned it. It was not given to them.. Unlike some people on this team...

Why should they be loyal? Why should they not test the market and want as much as they can get?? Yanks show absolute ZERO loyalty when the caved to Arod and broke their long time tradition of not negotiating with players during the season, then told Mo and Po (yick) NOPE! That doesn't stand for you... You gave us 12 years 4 titles, and he gave s jack.. But he is more important to us.. I would be pissed at us too.. Hell, i wouldn't even wanna re sign..

Game.. now THIS is being pompous..

yea it is being pompous, and oddly enough i couldnt agree more.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2007, 04:37 PM

and you know as a fan that i want both of them back. but i also have no problem with free agency. its my opinion that they're earned the right to test the market, especially with the silly "Yankees policy" of not offering extensions in season. blind loyality is exceptionally rare in professional sports today, it shouldn't be expected from anybody. I said from the beginning that I don't expect the trio of Pettitte/Mo/Posada to all come back. It now is looking more and more like retirement for Andy. I'm pretty confident that Mo comes back simply because the demand will not be there for him. But I would expect the Mets to make a real hard move for Posada. And if he gets that extra year and X more amount of dollars to jump to Queens, then good for him. He stays in New York and gets what he's looking for. he's earned that right, especially because he put up some amazing numbers last season for a catcher his age.

I agree with you there, this policy of not negotiating with players ends up costing them more than it would cost if the player got injured, which is covered by insurance anyway. Plus, the extra years you end up giving them turn into expensive headaches like we have with Giambi right now. Unless of course, you end up not signing them.

Look, I never said they don't have a right to do this. But how anyone who calls them self a Yankee fan isn't annoyed at this is beyond me. All of this talk about wanting to stay with the Yankees, love NY, blah blah blah. It's all bullshit.
When A-Rod does it, the whole city turns against him. Now Posada does the same thing and some of you (not HHH, who's consistent on this) are OK with it. Sounds hypocritical to me.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2007, 05:06 PM

Seriosuly, you need some mental :help: before Mojo :banning: you.

SERIOUSLY, you need some spelling help. :wink:

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2007, 06:54 PM

HBox

11-12-2007, 06:57 PM

Posada signs 4 year 52 mil deal (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/12/2007-11-12_jorge_posada_to_stay_with_yankees.html)

I always loved this guy. Best catcher we've ever had.

Oof. There's going to be a very painful end to that contract.

It seems that way about every contract the Yanks have signed lately.

Bulldogcakes

11-12-2007, 07:22 PM

Oof. There's going to be a very painful end to that contract.

It seems that way about every contract the Yanks have signed lately.

In his and Mo's case, I don't think it will be a big problem. He'll just get eased into a backup catcher role, and since he's a switch hitter he's very useful off the bench. If they resign Molina they can use him less next year and be comfortable with it. Giambi's contract runs out next year, maybe Posada can DH more then. Mo will just get used less and less, and likely lose the closer's role within a few years. The money doesn't bother me. The Luxury ceiling is up to 148 this year, and the Yanks will likely shave down their payroll a bit by the time their roster is set.

What bugs me is the fact we have too many left handed DH's right now. Matsui/Damon and Giambi. One of the left fielders has to go.

TheGameHHH

11-12-2007, 07:27 PM

good, im glad he's back. and the length doesn't bother me at all because like BDC said Posada can ease into a back-up role and maybe move over to first. plus having a switch hitting man come off the bench in some games aint half bad either. he earned that contract and im happy for him.

Kevin

11-12-2007, 08:02 PM

If the Twins continue to demand Cano in a deal for Santana.. He is not coming here..

HBox

11-12-2007, 08:31 PM

In his and Mo's case, I don't think it will be a big problem. He'll just get eased into a backup catcher role, and since he's a switch hitter he's very useful off the bench. If they resign Molina they can use him less next year and be comfortable with it. Giambi's contract runs out next year, maybe Posada can DH more then. Mo will just get used less and less, and likely lose the closer's role within a few years. The money doesn't bother me. The Luxury ceiling is up to 148 this year, and the Yanks will likely shave down their payroll a bit by the time their roster is set.

What bugs me is the fact we have too many left handed DH's right now. Matsui/Damon and Giambi. One of the left fielders has to go.

The lineup has too many lefties period.

As for Posada, is it really going to be good that the team will be stuck with a backup catcher making 13 million who's bad defensively? I really hope he continues to defy age. As for the payroll it might not seem bad now but consider that if Santana reaches free agency next year what it would cost to sign him.

A.J.

11-13-2007, 03:55 AM

Posada signs 4 year 52 mil deal (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/12/2007-11-12_jorge_posada_to_stay_with_yankees.html)

I always loved this guy. Best catcher we've ever had.

Eh...one of them anyway.

http://z.about.com/d/gonyc/1/0/n/R/nyc080106_159.jpg

http://users.rowan.edu/~fleischner/Yankees/RetiredNumbers/Yogi.jpg

http://users.rowan.edu/~fleischner/Yankees/RetiredNumbers/Thurman.jpg

Freitag

11-13-2007, 04:37 AM

The lineup has too many lefties period.

As for Posada, is it really going to be good that the team will be stuck with a backup catcher making 13 million who's bad defensively? I really hope he continues to defy age. As for the payroll it might not seem bad now but consider that if Santana reaches free agency next year what it would cost to sign him.

Based on ticket sales alone, the Yankees have more than enough money to carry a 250 million dollar payroll + pay for the salaries of every single person in the organization, including the minor leagues.

That's not even taking into consideration money from YES, concessions, parking, etc.

Kevin

11-13-2007, 03:32 PM

Yankees offer closer Rivera $45M, 3-year deal

NEW YORK -- Mariano Rivera was offered a $45 million, three-year contract to stay with the New York Yankees. Now, the team is waiting to hear back from its star closer.

Mariano Rivera

Rivera

"He'd be by $4 million a year the highest-paid relief pitcher," Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Tuesday. "To say that's a strong offer would be an understatement."

Come on now, they are getting stupid now... 3 years 45 mil for a 38 year old closer who showed signs that he was slipping last year??

Bossanova

11-13-2007, 03:34 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-13-2007, 03:54 PM

Come on now, they are getting stupid now... 3 years 45 mil for a 38 year old closer who showed signs that he was slipping last year??

I agree. 3/40 was generous enough, at this point they're just bidding against themselves. Who's going to give him anything close to that, except the Yanks? He has to show them at some point he wants to stay here.

If it was me, I'd stick with the 3/40 deal. He's already filed for free agency, let him see if he can do better elsewhere. I'll be perfectly happy to have Joba close next year.

TheGameHHH

11-13-2007, 04:24 PM

I agree. 3/40 was generous enough, at this point they're just bidding against themselves. Who's going to give him anything close to that, except the Yanks? He has to show them at some point he wants to stay here.

If it was me, I'd stick with the 3/40 deal. He's already filed for free agency, let him see if he can do better elsewhere. I'll be perfectly happy to have Joba close next year.

by moving joba to closer you have yet another hole to fill in starting pitching, which isnt looking that great to begin with. id rather spend the extra 5 million for Mo and keep Joba in the starting rotation, it just makes sense.

TheMojoPin

11-13-2007, 04:25 PM

I'll be perfectly happy to have Joba close next year.

The only way you could waste the talent he's shown more is by benching him.

Out of all relief positions, closer is arguably the one that most does NOT require the services of the best pitcher in the bullpen. Guys like Joba are much more useful putting out fires in the 6th-8th innings when implosions are likely to be happening, or starting. Closers are where the pitching damned go who can't pitch anywhere else with any kind of success after a certain point of their career.

JPMNICK

11-13-2007, 05:19 PM

The only way you could waste the talent he's shown more is by benching him.

Out of all relief positions, closer is arguably the one that most does NOT require the services of the best pitcher in the bullpen. Guys like Joba are much more useful putting out fires in the 6th-8th innings when implosions are likely to be happening, or starting. Closers are where the pitching damned go who can't pitch anywhere else with any kind of success after a certain point of their career.

there is a baseball statistician who ran the numbers on pitchers after the starter is gone and the team has the lead. the 7th-8th inning guys are the most important. they still have to get 9 outs instead of 3, and they usually face the heart of the order at least once.

Bulldogcakes

11-13-2007, 06:25 PM

there is a baseball statistician who ran the numbers on pitchers after the starter is gone and the team has the lead. the 7th-8th inning guys are the most important. they still have to get 9 outs instead of 3, and they usually face the heart of the order at least once.

Do you remember the year the Red Sox tried that (2003)? Doing a 'bullpen by committee'? They hired Bill James as a consultant and went with match ups in the 9th like they would in the 7th or 8th. It was a miserable failure, they scrapped the idea after 1 year, went and got a closer and won a WS. Then put Paps in there and won another.

Or (author of Moneyball) Billy Beane's A's teams? He didn't believe in closers, either. And his teams could never close out a series, lost every close out game they played in (0-9) the playoffs from 2000-2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/). They also lost every playoff elimination game they played in during that time, every single one. Never once did they advance, never once did they stave off elimination. NOT ONCE. If it was all "a crapshoot" as Beane says, shouldn't he have won ONE of those games? Just by chance? Unless of course, his theory was flawed. He adjusted his theory and finally won a ALDS in 2006 with Houston Street picking up 2 saves.

It simply doesn't work. It's been tried many times, and has failed. You have to have a closer, and he needs to be your best option. This way you can go to him in the 8th if your set up guys get in trouble. The "closers don't matter" theory is in the dustbin of baseball history for those of us who've been paying attention since "Moneyball" and the "Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract " were written. Thats not to say both of those aren't excellent books, they are. But some ideas panned out better than others, and the authors would be the first to tell you that.

And the 7-8th aren't "most important", all innings count the same. You could just as easily lose the game in any other inning. Those innings just seem more dramatic, and the quality of most teams middle relievers is generally less than that of their starters (which is why they ended up in the bullpen to begin with) But how often do you look back in hindsight at a game and say "we lost that one in the 5th" if not earlier. If the 7th and 8th innings are any more important, its simply because there's 2 of them, wheras the 9th inning is one. Games being lost there reflects lesser pitchers being used.

Bulldogcakes

11-13-2007, 06:52 PM

From River Ave Blues (http://www.riveraveblues.com/)

What the Yankees should do, though they certainly won’t, is let Mo field offers from other teams. Hey, he wanted to test the market, right? So when teams are coming in with far less than three years, $45 million, the Yankees can say: “Mo, we’ll match your best offer. But you blew signing that three-year, $45 million deal. Just like we blew signing you cheaper back in Spring Training.”

After all, this should work both ways, right?

Bravo. As I said, I'd pull that offer immediately. Its way too high, and will just get Bud Selig pissed off at the Yanks for raising the ceiling on closers.

TheMojoPin

11-13-2007, 07:46 PM

Do you remember the year the Red Sox tried that (2003)? Doing a 'bullpen by committee'? They hired Bill James as a consultant and went with match ups in the 9th like they would in the 7th or 8th. It was a miserable failure, they scrapped the idea after 1 year, went and got a closer and won a WS. Then put Paps in there and won another.

Or (author of Moneyball) Billy Beane's A's teams? He didn't believe in closers, either. And his teams could never close out a series, lost every close out game they played in (0-9) the playoffs from 2000-2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/). They also lost every playoff elimination game they played in during that time, every single one. Never once did they advance, never once did they stave off elimination. NOT ONCE. If it was all "a crapshoot" as Beane says, shouldn't he have won ONE of those games? Just by chance? Unless of course, his theory was flawed. He adjusted his theory and finally won a ALDS in 2006 with Houston Street picking up 2 saves.

It simply doesn't work. It's been tried many times, and has failed. You have to have a closer, and he needs to be your best option. This way you can go to him in the 8th if your set up guys get in trouble. The "closers don't matter" theory is in the dustbin of baseball history for those of us who've been paying attention since "Moneyball" and the "Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract " were written. Thats not to say both of those aren't excellent books, they are. But some ideas panned out better than others, and the authors would be the first to tell you that.

And the 7-8th aren't "most important", all innings count the same. You could just as easily lose the game in any other inning. Those innings just seem more dramatic, and the quality of most teams middle relievers is generally less than that of their starters (which is why they ended up in the bullpen to begin with) But how often do you look back in hindsight at a game and say "we lost that one in the 5th" if not earlier. If the 7th and 8th innings are any more important, its simply because there's 2 of them, wheras the 9th inning is one. Games being lost there reflects lesser pitchers being used.

Nobody suggested not having a set closer, so bringing up Beane and the "closer by committe" is completely moot. We're talking about how the relivers who come in in the 7th and 8th innings generally face tougher situations and more pressure than the closer. It's a fallacy to think your best reliver HAS to be the closer because it actually takes their skils away from the innings when they'd typically be more needed...namely to come in and bail everyone out from a dangerous situation or kpee the other team close or tied. Don't dump the best reliver at the end of the game when your team has the lead and nobody is on base. It's a waste of your bullpen talent.

Ranking the innings makes total sense when it comes to pitchers since there so much juggling involved. The 6th-8th innings are when you usually no longer have your starter in and you need to keep your team in it. Situations are gonna crop up where pitchers need to come in with people already on base...hell, they can come in in the middle of a pitching sequence. The 9th inning is totally different since it's the last one and the closer is almost always only gonna come in with the lead and nobody on base. Honestly, it's much easier to find guys who can handle that than guys who can be consistently lights out in those middle innings in a variety of situations. Guys like Joba are wasted as a closer. You want those weapons when it's much more critical.

TheMojoPin

11-13-2007, 07:50 PM

Or (author of Moneyball) Billy Beane's A's teams? He didn't believe in closers, either. And his teams could never close out a series, lost every close out game they played in (0-9) the playoffs from 2000-2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/). They also lost every playoff elimination game they played in during that time, every single one. Never once did they advance, never once did they stave off elimination. NOT ONCE. If it was all "a crapshoot" as Beane says, shouldn't he have won ONE of those games? Just by chance? Unless of course, his theory was flawed. He adjusted his theory and finally won a ALDS in 2006 with Houston Street picking up 2 saves.

One final point...picking those records and automatically equating them to not having a set closer is inherrently flawed analysis. Those teams had more problems in the playoffs than the lack of a closer. You can't single out aspects of the game like that, even though it seems to be something many Yankees fans like to do.

sailor

11-13-2007, 11:00 PM

i think you're way off on the closer thing. a lot of otherwise great relievers can't handle that 9th inning pressure (i think kyle farnsworth had this problem.)

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 07:33 AM

Yankees look to bring A-Rod back - on their terms (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/14/2007-11-14_yankees_look_to_bring_arod_back__on_thei.html)

According to the first source, the Yankees are waiting for Mariano Rivera to sign a new contract before finalizing any plans with Rodriguez, who is expected to take a 10-year deal worth roughly $275 million.

TheGameHHH

11-14-2007, 08:17 AM

TheMojoPin

11-14-2007, 08:49 AM

i think you're way off on the closer thing. a lot of otherwise great relievers can't handle that 9th inning pressure (i think kyle farnsworth had this problem.)

The flipside of that argument is that the 9th inning typically has little to no pressure compared to the 6th-8th innings when the starter is out. Unless the team is only winning by 1 run or it's tied, the closer just has to come in and get 3 outs with nobody starting on base and the game is done...no need to think ahead or anything else, just 3 outs and everyone goes home. The argument I've heard is that more guys, oddly enough, crumble under that lack of pressure as opposed to it being a high stress situation. It's argued more pitchers, especially those in the bullpen, thrive under the situations with MORE pressure as opposed to a typical closing. That's why it's key with a closer to find somone who seems to more "mentally" match up with the job than just automatically throwing your best reliver into the slot. It's actually good that you can almost always put your less than best reliever in that spot and save the big guns for earlier.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 09:20 AM

i cant believe my father and Kevin might be right about this

Who isn't looking so crazy now?? EH??

It could be Boras and Arod trying to get us back in for leverage, but i think they both know the Yanks would sniff it out real quick.. So i do not think thats the case.. I think Arod finally got tired of people questioning his man hood and saying Boras is leading him by a leash.. I I just always felt that its the best fit for both sides.. Lets see what happens..

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 09:24 AM

I hope he resigns and then goes 0-5 with 2 errors on opening day. Do you think he may hear a boo or two?

Kevin

11-14-2007, 09:25 AM

I hope he resigns and then goes 0-5 with 2 errors on opening day. Do you think he may hear a boo or two?

Maybe 1...

badorties

11-14-2007, 09:34 AM

Maybe 1...

perhaps more ...

if he re-signs, with the disappointment of the CLE series and the contract nonsense, he'll spend another season of boos until the team wins big

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 10:07 AM

Do you think that right now Bulldogcakes is choking the shit out of an icing bag?

Kevin

11-14-2007, 10:11 AM

Do you think that right now Bulldogcakes is choking the shit out of an icing bag?

What? He will just claim he always wanted AROD BACK, AND he said no such other thing..

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 10:17 AM

What? He will just claim he always wanted AROD BACK, AND he said no such other thing..

So will Jeter.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 10:20 AM

So will Jeter.

Jeter has always said how he loves Arod and will not play on a team without him. In fact, he threatened to demand a trade the night Arod opted out..

HBox

11-14-2007, 11:12 AM

This is just a backdoor way to get the Yanks back into the bidding. That's all.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 11:14 AM

I think the Yanks would back out right away if that happend..And the other teams would know that.. So i do not think that is the case..

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:16 AM

1) If this happens, I sooooooooo called this.

2) Let me get my BDC conspiracy theory hat on:

What if the Yankees sign A-Rod at below market value. Why don't they want Boras in the room? A-Rod doesn't have a 5/10 no trade clause. The Yankees then turn around and deal A-Rod to the Twins, in exchange for Santana.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 11:19 AM

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:21 AM

This is just a backdoor way to get the Yanks back into the bidding. That's all.

I hope this is some of your patented HBox sarcasm.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 11:24 AM

And, if it happens, no one but me is taking credit for this but me.. Yes i am talking to you, Howard Freitag..

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:24 AM

I say the MArlins for Cabrera and Willis

How about to the Mets for Wright, Perez, and Maine?

HBox

11-14-2007, 11:25 AM

I hope this is some of your patented HBox sarcasm.

Nope. I still have complete confidence A-Rod as a baseball player, but none in his supposed desire to play for the Yanks.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 11:25 AM

How about to the Mets for Wright, Perez, and Maine?

Not unless they throw in Millidge and we throw in Matsui AND Giambi..

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:26 AM

And, if it happens, no one but me is taking credit for this but me.. Yes i am talking to you, Howard Freitag..

My full name is Hans Gruber Freitag.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 11:30 AM

i however, do not take credit for that awful sentence i just pulled off there..

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:31 AM

Nope. I still have complete confidence A-Rod as a baseball player, but none in his supposed desire to play for the Yanks.

Why would the Yankees even bother coming to the table? They are just settling the dust from the Torre mess now. If they even considering bringing back A-Rod, they are just messing stuff up.

I don't want A-Rod on this team. I don't care if it's Harlan Chamberlain's rascal taking over 3B, he has INSULTED me as a Yankee fan.

Freitag

11-14-2007, 11:35 AM

Not unless they throw in Millidge and we throw in Matsui AND Giambi..

The Mets also want Harlan's rascal and Laura Posada.

HBox

11-14-2007, 11:36 AM

TheGameHHH

11-14-2007, 12:00 PM

Why would the Yankees even bother coming to the table? They are just settling the dust from the Torre mess now. If they even considering bringing back A-Rod, they are just messing stuff up.

I don't want A-Rod on this team. I don't care if it's Harlan Chamberlain's rascal taking over 3B, he has INSULTED me as a Yankee fan.

i do feel completely abused as a fan, but dont think for a second i wouldnt welcome A-Rod back in pinstripes. It's comparable to how i feel as an American citizen with the Bushes and Clintons just laughing straight to the bank. I just go along cause i have no choice.

TheGameHHH

11-14-2007, 12:11 PM

very good article on A-Rod and his value

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/071114&sportCat=mlb

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 12:24 PM

Do you think he'll get another opt-out clause?

HBox

11-14-2007, 12:28 PM

Do you think he'll get another opt-out clause?

I think that hank Steinbrenner would spit in his face if he brought it up.

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 12:51 PM

I think that hank Steinbrenner would spit in his face if he brought it up.

And then he would comment to the press about it.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 12:53 PM

And then he would comment to the press about it.

And somehow make it seem even worse than the act..

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 01:16 PM

I wonder what Howard Rubenstein does with his days now?

HBox

11-14-2007, 01:20 PM

I wonder what Howard Rubenstein does with his days now?

A lot of standing next to his fax machine, pissed off, forcefully grasping his latest wasted missive, gritting his teeth, listening to Hank's latest comments on the radio.

HBox

11-14-2007, 03:53 PM

Looks like it's all but done: 10 years and $275 million. (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/14/a-rod-slips-leash-and-returns-to-yanks/)

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 03:59 PM

i cant believe my father and Kevin might be right about this

Give Kev credit. If anyone else around here called it besides him, I don't remember it. Now we'll just have to "call him crazy" for the rest of the stuff he posts. :wink:

I certainly didn't see this coming. I thought he wanted out. It still may be true that he did, he just went out and found the market simply wasn't there for him like he thought it would be. Throw in the Marlins shopping Cabrera, and now the two L.A. teams who were supposed to be fighting for his services are bidding on Cabrera instead. Which would leave the other L.A. team with little/no competition for A-Rod's services. Its possible he saw the writing on the wall and came back as fast as he could to save face. Also, the World Series stunt Boras pulled completely backfired and Alex ended up smeared as a result. That couldn't sit well with the always image conscious A-Rod.

Welcome back. It solves a big problem for us without giving up any pitching. Hopefully one of these years he'll actually drive in a baserunner in the playoffs, but at least he will help us get there. The playoffs usually come down to pitching, anyway.

TheGameHHH

11-14-2007, 04:04 PM

Seriously, i cant believe this happened. I give Kevin a ton of credit, he took a swing and connected big time when we all called him crazy. I'm very happy about this deal, I want to see him win a World Series in the Bronx.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 04:09 PM

Do you think that right now Bulldogcakes is choking the shit out of an icing bag?

Nah, I'm fine with this. I also would have been fine if they went in a different direction. You can't argue against his regular season numbers. You also can't argue in support his post season futility. He's got feet of clay, but we need a righty power bat and a 3B.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 04:11 PM

What? He will just claim he always wanted AROD BACK, AND he said no such other thing..

Pfffft. Now I take back all those nice things I just said about you. Where's that edit button?

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 04:14 PM

Tenbatsuzen

11-14-2007, 04:18 PM

Looks like it's all but done: 10 years and $275 million. (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/11/14/a-rod-slips-leash-and-returns-to-yanks/)

Give Kev credit. If anyone else around here called it besides him, I don't remember it. Now we'll just have to "call him crazy" for the rest of the stuff he posts. :wink:

Let's not start giving Kevin pats on the back yet.

Matty's Words of Wisdom... in JULY (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1402048&postcount=323)

Kevin

11-14-2007, 04:21 PM

Let's not start giving Kevin pats on the back yet.

Matty's Words of Wisdom... in JULY (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1402048&postcount=323)

That does not count... I made it when He opted out AND NOOOOOOOOOOO one said its possible.. People still thought back then he might re sign.. NO BODY thought it this time.. And besides.. I said he was coming back then too.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 04:21 PM

I see you are channeling some BDC right there.

God, you people are obsessed with me around here.

HBox

11-14-2007, 04:23 PM

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Yanks will still go after Mike Lowell, for 1B.

To that I say........

NNNNOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Tenbatsuzen

11-14-2007, 04:28 PM

That does not count... I made it when He opted out AND NOOOOOOOOOOO one said its possible.. People still thought back then he might re sign.. NO BODY thought it this time.. And besides.. I said he was coming back then too.

Shut the fuck up. I am Nostradamus, you're fucking Criss Angel.

Tenbatsuzen

11-14-2007, 04:28 PM

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Yanks will still go after Mike Lowell, for 1B.

To that I say........

NNNNOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Trade Giambi to the Twins?

*ducks*

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 04:29 PM

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the Yanks will still go after Mike Lowell, for 1B.

To that I say........

NNNNOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Not buying it. Makes no sense for the Yanks.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 04:33 PM

Trade Giambi to the Twins?

*ducks*

For Justin Morneau??

Kevin

11-14-2007, 04:34 PM

I can almost hear Matty...

http://paranoiafiles.com/images/miss_cleo.gif

CALL ME NOW!

Tenbatsuzen

11-14-2007, 04:37 PM

I can almost hear Matty...

http://paranoiafiles.com/images/miss_cleo.gif

CALL ME NOW!

Close.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/weto27/untitled.jpg

Kevin

11-14-2007, 04:43 PM

Close.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/weto27/untitled.jpg

I thought of him but really wanted to stay away from the word that came before damus..

Tenbatsuzen

11-14-2007, 04:46 PM

I thought of him but really wanted to stay away from the word that came before damus..

"Negro" is politically incorrect but still somewhat... there.

Doctor Z

11-14-2007, 06:05 PM

Yankees look to bring A-Rod back - on their terms (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/14/2007-11-14_yankees_look_to_bring_arod_back__on_thei.html)

Fuck that bitch.

Bulldogcakes

11-14-2007, 06:10 PM

Fuck that bitch.

In the polls (http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/) I've seen (believe it or not) you sir are in the majority. By a wide margin.

Doctor Z

11-14-2007, 06:29 PM

In the <strike>polls</strike> poles I've seen

Fixed it for ya.

BoondockSaint

11-14-2007, 09:05 PM

Derek Jeter is resigned to the fact that Alex Rodriguez's days as a Yankee seem over. And if so, he says the Bombers won't necessarily miss him.

Speaking at Joe Torre's annual Safe At Home Foundation gala last night at Chelsea Piers, Jeter pointed out that the Yankees' championship teams in the Torre era never had a 50-homer, 150-RBI player in the lineup.

"We're trying to win, but it takes more than one person. We've had teams that have won and we haven't had numbers like that put up, so you don't necessarily have to have those type of numbers in order to win."

I've been waiting to use that quote somewhere.

Me too.

Kevin

11-14-2007, 09:14 PM

Me too.

Is there any truth to the rumor that upon hearing Arod was trying to contact Hank, Jeter was outside his office cutting his phone lines and scrambling his cellphone signals?? I think i heard that . In The River Ave Blues..

Kevin

11-14-2007, 09:15 PM

Opps

Kevin

11-15-2007, 11:24 AM

Ok now Rivera is starting to be a little bitch.. Hanks said that for his age 3 yrs 45 mil is more than enough... And now he wants a 4 year fir 52.. And told his agent to shop him.. He mentiond the Dodgers.. They do not need him.. If you want to be like that MO.. GO and see if you can get 13mil a year let alone 4 years. How are you going to balk at 3 years 45 mil? I love Mo but this bugged me.

Linky linkerton (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7450914)

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 11:27 AM

Ok now Rivera is starting to be a little bitch.. Hanks said that for his age 3 yrs 45 mil is more than enough... And now he wants a 4 year fir 52.. And told his agent to shop him.. He mentiond the Dodgers.. They do not need him.. If you want to be like that MO.. GO and see if you can get 13mil a year let alone 4 years. How are you going to balk at 3 years 45 mil? I love Mo but this bugged me.

he wont get 3-45 but theres plenty of teams who need closers

fuck i'd cut billy wags ACL just so the mets would have a need for a closer

TheGameHHH

11-15-2007, 11:44 AM

i love him but if he wants to go get his money then let him go get it. Joba would be fine in that role for a season.

HBox

11-15-2007, 11:50 AM

i love him but if he wants to go get his money then let him go get it. Joba would be fine in that role for a season.

The Red Sox said the same thing about Papelbon.

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 11:51 AM

The Red Sox said the same thing about Papelbon.

if it works why fuck with it

HBox

11-15-2007, 11:59 AM

if it works why fuck with it

200IP a year vs. 70IP a year.

TheGameHHH

11-15-2007, 12:41 PM

The Red Sox said the same thing about Papelbon.

they said what about Papelbon, that he'd be a good closer? he is

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 12:43 PM

they said what about Papelbon, that he'd be a good closer? he is

i think he was referring to the sawx saying paps would only close for that one year and then back to the rotation

ralphbxny

11-15-2007, 12:52 PM

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 12:57 PM

why does he want 4 years does he plan to pitch till he is 42?!?!?

I'd hate to give a bad money contract again. We have 5 right now.....Im lookin right at Giambi, Matsui, Farnsworth, Damon and Mussina!

i dont think there's many teams that will give him more than 2 let alone 3 like the yanks or 4

TheGameHHH

11-15-2007, 01:04 PM

i think he was referring to the sawx saying paps would only close for that one year and then back to the rotation

ahhh, very true. i didn't know the sox said he'd only be there for a year.

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 01:15 PM

ahhh, very true. i didn't know the sox said he'd only be there for a year.

yeh it was after foulke shit the bed i think and paps came in and did a good job but they were saying that paps was goin back to the rotation but then couldnt find a replacement and paps said he wanted to close

TheGameHHH

11-15-2007, 01:18 PM

maybe i did know that now that i think about it. either way, whatever. Joba has already been in a relief role, so im fairly confident he can handle it if Mo walks.

HBox

11-15-2007, 01:36 PM

maybe i did know that now that i think about it. either way, whatever. Joba has already been in a relief role, so im fairly confident he can handle it if Mo walks.

He can probably handle it, it would just be a colossal waste of his talents and potential even under the best circumstances.

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 01:42 PM

He can probably handle it, it would just be a colossal waste of his talents and potential even under the best circumstances.

if he goes on to be a good if not dominant closer over the next 10 years a la mariano

how is that a waste ???

you can always find good starters, good closers are not easy to come by

HBox

11-15-2007, 01:44 PM

if he goes on to be a good if not dominant closer over the next 10 years a la mariano

how is that a waste ???

you can always find good starters, good closers are not easy to come by

Yeah, if the Yankees have learned anything the last few years its that good starters are a dime a dozen.

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 01:47 PM

Yeah, if the Yankees have learned anything the last few years its that good starters are a dime a dozen.

yeh i know that but they do have kennedy and hughes

HBox

11-15-2007, 01:50 PM

yeh i know that but they do have kennedy and hughes

So what? Chamberlain might be the best of the three. If I had to bet right now I'd put it on Chamberlain. I'd rather sign Francisco Cordero if Rivera leaves than make Chamberlain the closer next year.

cougarjake13

11-15-2007, 02:06 PM

HBox

11-15-2007, 02:24 PM

but then in a few years you'll be searching again

So? A closer is easier to acquire than a starter with the potential Chamberlain has. The Phillies just got Brad Lidge for next to nothing. The Tigers can get by with fucking Todd Jones. The Indians got by with Joe fucking Borowski.

Bulldogcakes

11-15-2007, 03:41 PM

So what? Chamberlain might be the best of the three. If I had to bet right now I'd put it on Chamberlain. I'd rather sign Francisco Cordero if Rivera leaves than make Chamberlain the closer next year.

Forget about him. Look at Cordero's home road splits (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4139). Hideous. I'm off the Cordero bandwagon.

The Yanks plan to resign Molina after A-Rod and Mo are done, and then they plan to bring back Vizcaino. Other than that, you're looking at using the kids (Ohlendorf, Edwar, etc) or trying to swing a trade. I suspect they'll be holding open auditions for the 7th inning in spring training this coming year.

Snoogans

11-15-2007, 04:03 PM

Forget about him. Look at Cordero's home road splits (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4139). Hideous. I'm off the Cordero bandwagon.

The Yanks plan to resign Molina after A-Rod and Mo are done, and then they plan to bring back Vizcaino. Other than that, you're looking at using the kids (Ohlendorf, Edwar, etc) or trying to swing a trade. I suspect they'll be holding open auditions for the 7th inning in spring training this coming year.

open tryouts, ooooo. I hope you are getting your glove ready, BDC

TheMojoPin

11-15-2007, 04:33 PM

if he goes on to be a good if not dominant closer over the next 10 years a la mariano

how is that a waste ???

you can always find good starters, good closers are not easy to come by

You've got to be kidding me.

This is the "yeah, but can they produce in the postseason?" thinking spreading...in no sane universe is a closer more valuable than a good to great starter.

JPMNICK

11-15-2007, 05:15 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-15-2007, 05:46 PM

a power starter is WAY more valuable than a closer.

i came home tonight and my dad told me the Yanks signed A-Rod I thought he was fucking around with me. then i find out it is true. this is fucking insanity. who were the bidding against, themselves? they are maniacs.

did boras have anything to do with this? does he get the commision?

The deal wasn't that crazy. If you remember the proposed offer they made before A-Rod opted out, it was an extension of 5-6 years at 30 per on top of the 3 years at 81 mil he had left. They added an extra year (figuring A-Rod will be going for 800 HR's then), then subtracted the 21 mil Texas subsidy. That leaves you at roughly 275 for 10 years.

There are conflicting reports about Boras' involvement, but most think he wasn't at the actual meetings. The Yanks said they wouldn't deal with him, and apparently A-Rod accepted that condition, as well as giving back the 21 mil he cost them by opting out.

JPMNICK

11-15-2007, 05:56 PM

The deal wasn't that crazy. If you remember the proposed offer they made before A-Rod opted out, it was an extension of 5-6 years at 30 per on top of the 3 years at 81 mil he had left. They added an extra year (figuring A-Rod will be going for 800 HR's then), then subtracted the 21 mil Texas subsidy. That leaves you at roughly 275 for 10 years.

There are conflicting reports about Boras' involvement, but most think he wasn't at the actual meetings. The Yanks said they wouldn't deal with him, and apparently A-Rod accepted that condition, as well as giving back the 21 mil he cost them by opting out.

he was already the highest paid, why not just max out at 250 million, why try and make it bigger.

I think this all has to do with the steinbrenner brothers being in a panic about taking over and not having torre. they know they need to win next year and at least be in the playoffs for people to not be killing them in the media.

BoondockSaint

11-15-2007, 06:11 PM

Does Brian Cashman still work for the Yankees?

Kevin

11-15-2007, 06:16 PM

Does Brian Cashman still work for the Yankees?

Yes, but he only targets and works out contracts with Jewish players..

Tenbatsuzen

11-15-2007, 06:18 PM

Yes, but he only targets and works out contracts with Jewish players..

I like the idea of Cash being Baseball Mossad.

Bulldogcakes

11-15-2007, 06:19 PM

MLB Trade rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

The uncredited rumor says a source close to Lowell indicates that he's received four-year offers in the $55-60MM range from the Braves, Angels, Cardinals, and Yankees.

GM Frank Wren debunked the Braves portion today. Esteemed St. Louis Post-Dispatch writer Bernie Miklasz killed the Cardinals portion last night.

So we have an uncredited rumor that is currently 0 for 2. I suppose there is the chance the Angels have an offer on the table.

A different Boston TV station, WBZ, said today that the Yanks did make an offer in the $56-60MM range to Lowell today (courtesy of Dan Roche). That could be accurate but I would like to see some of the regular Yankees beat writers pick it up also.

Still not buying it.

Doctor Z

11-15-2007, 06:32 PM

So... since the Yankees' next championship won't be till at least 2018, what should we do till then?

Do you think Hughes and Joba will still be good in a decade?

TheGameHHH

11-15-2007, 06:37 PM

im confused as to why the Yanks want Lowell, especially with everybody saying he's a product of Fenway. with all the clutter at 1B as is, why add another?

Kevin

11-15-2007, 06:39 PM

im confused as to why the Yanks want Lowell, especially with everybody saying he's a product of Fenway. with all the clutter at 1B as is, why add another?

No truth to it.. Its a Lowell camp rumor.. Yanks will wait for Texiera next year.. No way they signing lowell to play 1st, when Tixera is a FA in 08 offseason..

Doctor Z

11-15-2007, 06:41 PM

The Yankees are looking to play a 4-across outfield, softball style. Lowell will play 3rd, A-Rod will play short, and Jeter will split right-center and left-center with Jason Giambi.

HBox

11-15-2007, 06:42 PM

I hope they are just driving up the price for the Red Sox.

Kevin

11-15-2007, 06:44 PM

I hope they are just driving up the price for the Red Sox.

Its hopeless for them.. Redsox do NOT budge from their limit.. They did not for Pedro, They didn't for Damon.. And they wont for Lowell.. If he wants stay, it will 3 yrs.. I hope the Yanks take the same stance with Rivera.

Tenbatsuzen

11-15-2007, 07:12 PM

I hope they are just driving up the price for the Red Sox.

The Mossad knows all.

Doctor Z

11-16-2007, 07:09 AM

Mariano being a total douche. (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071116&content_id=2301518&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)

Kevin

11-16-2007, 11:30 AM

His agent is a total retard.. First he names the Dodgers.. they have a cheap young closer.. He just threw them out like a moron for no other reason than Torre.. Then he says that Wagner got 4 years, why not him... WAGNER WAS 34 when he got that deal... MO IS 38! I do not think the Yanks will budge here.. Hank said they got complaints from other owners for this offer.. Mo will not get anywhere near this anywhere else.. I hope he has to come back for less.

Snacks

11-16-2007, 12:00 PM

Kevin

11-16-2007, 02:45 PM

if your talking about Takashi Saito (the LAD Closer) then your dead wrong, he may be cheap at 1 million per but hes 37 years old.

Didnt know about the age.. But still, would want a closer who had 39 saves and a 1.40 era, at 1mil.. or a closer who had 30 saves and a 3.15 era and 13 mil?

sailor

11-16-2007, 02:57 PM

i thought the contract offer was insane. i can't believe mo turned it down, he will not get more from the yankees or anyone else.

Snoogans

11-16-2007, 03:00 PM

Can't you just hear it now, Enter Sandman blasting from the loudspeakers at beautiful Chavez Ravine

Tenbatsuzen

11-16-2007, 03:03 PM

Can't you just hear it now, Enter Sandman blasting from the loudspeakers at beautiful Chavez Ravine

It's OK, we'll have the Goldberg theme.

cougarjake13

11-16-2007, 05:23 PM

You've got to be kidding me.

This is the "yeah, but can they produce in the postseason?" thinking spreading...in no sane universe is a closer more valuable than a good to great starter.

i agree

but we dont even know if joba will be either of those

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2007, 05:28 PM

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/files/2007/11/untouchables.jpg

BoondockSaint

11-16-2007, 05:29 PM

Tough week for Jeter, huh? First A-Rod comes back and now the taxman is after him. He's gonna have to back a lot of chicks this weekend.

cougarjake13

11-16-2007, 05:31 PM

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/files/2007/11/untouchables.jpg

thats awesome

where'd ya find it BDC??

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2007, 05:36 PM

Meanwhile, I received this e-mail from the Yankees while I was gone:

Yankees manager Joe Girardi is down in the Dominican Republic this week. He had dinner with Yankees senior Latin staff and visited the coaches on Tuesday. This morning (Wednesday) at the Yankees Latin Beisbol Academy, he gave a speech to the Latin coaches and staff followed by an interactive talk with 55 Latin players and eight players from the ‘06 and ‘07 draft. He then watched a Dominican Instructional League game against Toronto and viewed tryouts.

So in a span of two weeks, Girardi was at the GM Meetings and then spent time with the staff and players in the Dominican. This is why Brian Cashman wanted Girardi, so he could have a manager heavily involved in development.

Joe Torre managed the 25 guys in the majors. Girardi is clearly going to have input in all facets of baseball operations. It’s an interesting dynamic.

What a switch from the Torre approach. Torre would be in Maui right now, would show up a few hours before game time and spend the first hour on the treadmill. Then he'd stroll around the batting cage and do nothing for the rest of the night. Torre was s. . . . ah forget it. He's gone now. I love Girardi, and this deep involvement in the system will pay dividends in game situations and player development. He'll know his guys inside and out before they ever get called up.

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2007, 05:37 PM

thats awesome

where'd ya find it BDC??

ahhh just a little something I threw together in my spare time. wink wink.

cougarjake13

11-16-2007, 05:57 PM

What a switch from the Torre approach. Torre would be in Maui right now, would show up a few hours before game time and spend the first hour on the treadmill. Then he'd stroll around the batting cage and do nothing for the rest of the night. Torre was s. . . . ah forget it. He's gone now. I love Girardi, and this deep involvement in the system will pay dividends in game situations and player development. He'll know his guys inside and out before they ever get called up.

just for arguments sake

what was torre like in 96 when he was first hired???

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2007, 06:10 PM

just for arguments sake

what was torre like in 96 when he was first hired???

Pretty much the same, but with less of a sense of entitlement.

Bulldogcakes

11-16-2007, 06:23 PM

For anyone interested, here's a new list of the Yanks top prospects (http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/Default.aspx). Done by a beat reporter for the SWB Yanks. Its just his opinion, many rate Betances much higher and others lower. I highlighted the guys who are likely to spend time in NY next year

1. Joba Chamberlain
Right-handed pitcher
Does anyone out there believe Chamberlain is not the No. 1 prospect in the Yankees system. That would be an interesting argument to make. In my mind, you can make a case for Phil Hughes having a brighter future, but among players with less than 50 innings or 130 at-bats in the big leagues, it's hard to make a case that anyone in the system is a brighter prospect than this guy.
Expectation for 2008: The only way Chamberlain will return to the minor leagues is if the Yankees believe he needs a tune up after spending the final two months of '07 as a reliever. I used to think that was a strong possibility, but it's looking more and more like Chamberlain is carved into the New York rotation. The only question remaining is whether he can hold up under the strain of a full big league season.

2. Ian Kennedy
Right-handed pitcher
In some ways Kennedy was more impressive than Chamberlain last season. I say that only because Kennedy doesn't come with Chamberlain's raw stuff. Kennedy got it done as a pitcher well beyond his years. He didn't overpower anyone, he simply pitched better than they hit. Impressive.
Expectation for 2008: There's still a chance Kennedy will return to Triple-A, but it seems more likely that he will pitch too well in spring training for the Yankees to turn him away. For him, the challenge will be facing top-level hitters for an entire year and still finding ways to get outs.

3. Jose Tabata
Right fielder
I realize Tabata has yet to show much power and that his weight seems to be a concern -- those are legitimate worries -- but I also realize that he's not even 20 years old and already he's set for Double-A. All he's done in his career is hit and if he can add a little bit of power, he should be a terrific right fielder. There are still kinks that need ironing, but there aren't many kids this age who are this good.
Expectation for 2008: I've always considered the step to Double-A to be the most difficult, but there's little reason to believe Tabata can't handle it. It would be nice for him to start showing some power, though.

4. Humberto Sanchez
Right-handed pitcher
Alan Horne was ranked ahead of Sanchez in my starting pitcher rankings, but I'm putting Sanchez above Horne on this list because Sanchez seems like a custom made late-innings reliever. His health problems worry me, but the idea of his big fastball and slider in the bullpen -- remind you of anyone? -- still makes him a premier pitcher. Apparently there's still a chance he could start, and if he can that's all the more reason to like him, but right now I think he's better suited for the pen.
Expectation for 2008: Two things: Stay healthy and get back on track. Sanchez needs a full season, that's crucial, and he needs to show his time away didn't cost him anything. I'd guess he'll be in Triple-A, but the big leagues aren't out of the question by mid-summer.

5. Alan Horne
Right-handed pitcher
Horne has a big fastball that might be interesting out of the bullpen, but he still strikes me as a starter. His Double-A numbers put him on the fringes of the elite pitching prospects in the Yankees organization, and I'm legitimately excited about seeing him Triple-A next season. He's still a notch below the likes of Chamberlain and Kennedy, but he'll have every chance to put himself at their level next year.
Expectation for 2008: Next up, Triple-A. As Eastern League Pitcher of the Year, there are clearly high hopes for Horne next season. The Yankees took things slow with him this season, but I fully expect him to make his major league debut at some point next season.

6. Jesus Montero
Catcher
A major international signing in 2006, Montero made his organization debut in 2007 with a .280 average and .421 slugging percentage in the Gulf Coast League. Baseball America named him the No. 2 prospect in the GCL, and that really grabbed my attention. Rookie ball is full of guys with potential -- otherwise they wouldn't have been signed -- but Montero clearly opened some eyes down in Florida.
Expectation for 2008: Montero should move up to full-season ball, which means better pitching. He'll also have to prove he can stay behind the plate. If he handles those two things, he could put himself among the very elite prospects in the organization.

7. Andrew Brackman
Right-handed pitcher
As I've stated several times, I lean toward proven players when ranking prospects. In Brackman's case, though, he comes from a big college program and has the raw stuff to make him a steal as a late first-round pick. There's just a lot to like about him, and given the fact Tommy John surgery is becoming fairly routine, I see no reason not to rank him this high.
Expectation for 2008: Surgery was too recent to expect him back before 2009.

8. Austin Jackson
Center fielder
Long labeled as a tremendous raw athlete, Jackson turned that athleticism into baseball results this season with an outstanding second half in Tampa. There's reason to be concerned -- because he otherwise looked like a possible bust -- but it seems Jackson has put everything together to hit for average, hit for power and flash some speed. He's continued to impress this winter in Hawaii.
Expectation for 2008: The step to Double-A is a tough one and should tell us a lot about Jackson. His numbers this year were worthy of pushing him into Top 10 prospect territory, but slipping up in Trenton will make last season's numbers seem like a blip on the radar.

9. Steven White
Right-handed pitcher
A series of strange health and injury problems slowed White's progression through the Yankees system, but when he came off the disabled list this season -- after an odd nerve problem in his shoulder -- White put together a dominant half season in Triple-A. There's nothing flashy about him, but he has three good pitches and he knows how to get outs.
Expectation for 2008: White should return to Triple-A and be surrounded by top talent. It will be up to him to emerge. If he does -- and I think he will -- there's every reason to believe he'll be in New York at some point.

10. Dan McCutchen
Right-handed pitcher
No one else put himself on the map last year the way McCutchen did. Climbing from Tampa to Trenton with a season ERA below 2.50, he established himself as someone who could knock on the door of Yankee Stadium next year. He was busted for a banned substance in 2006, but by all accounts that had more to do with a mixup than with intention to cheat. Regardless, the fact is McCutchen has never put up bad numbers and he was simply outstanding last season.
Expectation for 2008: McCutchen is older than you might expect -- he just turned 25 -- but I still think it makes sense to let him start next season back in Double-A. I find it hard to justify putting him at Triple-A ahead of White, Clippard or Horne, and it's easy to make a case that Marquez, Igawa and Wright should be there ahead of him too. Regardless of where he starts, I expect him to be at Triple-A at some point next season.

11. Dellin Betances
Right-handed pitcher
By most every account, Betances is one of the most promising young pitchers in baseball, and I don't disagree. He's held out of my top 10 by the fact he's never pitched above short-season. There are so many hurdles between him and the big leagues that, if I were to put all my hope on one player, I would pick 10 other Yankees prospects before I picked Betances.
Expectation for 2008: Full-season hitters. A big step, but Betances seems equiped to handle it.

12. J.B. Cox
Right-handed pitcher
Coming off surgery, Cox needs to pick up where he left off: Getting a lot of ground balls and putting up great numbers as an upper-level reliever. I realize Cox isn't considered a big league closer, but he seems a pretty sure bet to develop into a late-innings reliever.
Expectation for 2008: Get healthy, stay healthy and quite possibly reach the big leagues. At the very least Cox should pitch in Triple-A this season, where the trick will be showing he has no rust from his year off.

13. Shelley Duncan
Designated hitter
Capable of playing first base and the outfield corners, Duncan profiles best as a designated hitter. That said, his defense -- in my opinion -- isn't as bad as it's made out to be. His ceiling isn't sky high, but Duncan is already a big league power hitter off the bench and could be a potent regular if he keeps making strides. Largely forgotten, he burst onto the scene this season and won't go away anytime soon unless he slips up in a big way.
Expectation for 2008: Duncan will look to work his way into regular big league work. If he doesn't, he'll have to make the most of his chances or repeat his 2007 numbers if he's sent back to Triple-A. He has to keep producing to prove 2007 wasn't a blip on the radar.

14. Brett Gardner
Center fielder
Very interesting player who seems to get mixed reviews. Some see him as nothing more than a bench player at best (citing his lack of power) and some see him as a potent big league lead-off hitter (citing his speed, on-base percentage and range in the outfield). I tend to fall somewhere in between. I think Gardner can absolutely be a big league reserve -- he had a huge impact in Triple-A this season even without great numbers -- and I think he could be, but might not be, a big league regular. As I've stated before, he's the type of player who could go to New York to serve a small role but play well enough that the Yankees can't take him out of the lineup.
Expectation for 2008: Back to Triple-A to try to catch the Yankees attention and prove he deserves a chance. Kevin Thompson is gone and Bronson Sardinha has been slipping, so Gardner could very easily be one of the first position player call-ups. He just has to keep doing the little things and not worry about power. Or worry about those who worry about his power.

15. Mark Melancon
Right-handed pitcher
Former University of Arizona closer has had a series of injury problems which cause me some concern and led me to rank him below J.B. Cox. I considered putting him below Ross Ohlendorf. Bottom line is, Melancon could be a closer in waiting, or at least a set-up man in waiting. He'll be 23 next year, though, and he's never pitched above short season, something that causes me less concern because of his college experience.
Expectation for 2008: Gotta get healthy and get on the fast track. The Yankees should give Melancon every chance to succeed, and if he does, they should give him every chance to move quickly. I wouldn't rule out the big leagues at some point next year, but I wouldnt count on it either. Pitching a full, successful season would be good enough.

16. Ross Ohlendorf
Right-handed pitcher
I'm an Ohlendorf believer, and even I was surprised the Yankees called him up in September. Frankly, his results in Triple-A weren't great last year, but Ohlendorf is a smart pitcher (and a smart guy in general) who fires a mid-90s sinker. That's a nice combination. He's got to make sure he doesn't lose that sink in favor of velocity, though.
Expectation for 2008: The transition to the bullpen should continue in Triple-A. I doubt he'll get a real chance to make the big league team in spring training, but if he gets off to a fast start in the minors, he could be there by June or July.

17. Francisco Cervelli
Catcher
If you asked me before I started ranking these players, I would have pegged Cervelli as a Top 30 or Top 25 guy. The more I looked at it, though, the more I liked him and the higher he climbed. He's proven himself behind the plate and he's a solid hitter with a good average and doubles power. He might not be a superstar, but he seems like a quality player at a tough-to-find position.
Expectation for 2008: The jump to Double-A is a big one and this will be Cervelli's big test. If he handles Trenton, he'll be well on his way.

18. Eric Duncan
First baseman
Eighteen doesn't seem like a stretch for Duncan. Let's not forget he was a 22-year-old playing in Triple-A this season. Let's also not forget that he was coming back from a back injury and that he showed significant improvement from last year. It's taking him a little while longer to develop, but the fact he's getting better says something.
Expectation for 2008: The trick will be to continue the improvement. Duncan has lost a lot of his luster, but he remains a viable prospect in the upper levels of the Yankees system. He's young for his level and he shows flashes of being a very good hitter. Better consistency and he could start inching back toward New York.

19. Juan Miranda
First baseman
Here's the reason Eric Duncan can't afford to slip. Miranda showed great promise in his first season in the States. The thing I don't like is his age. Miranda is more than a year older than Duncan, so if he doesn't move quickly he can become a lost cause in the blink of an eye. There's a very small window in which Miranda can prove he belongs, and last he took a big step toward proving just that.
Expectation for 2008: I actually think the Yankees will start Miranda in Double-A and leave Duncan at first base in Triple-A, at least to start the year. Miranda, though, needs to get to Triple-A by the end of the season and the Yankees will surely give him every opportunity to do so.

20. Tyler Clippard
Right-handed pitcher
Here's a guy who could easily jump right back into the top 10 with a strong showing next season. Obviously his trip to the big leagues did something to know Clippard out of sorts last year and he returned to Triple-A a different pitcher, one who didn't get many strikeouts, gave up too many runs and got demoted to Double-A. That said, if Clippard gets straightened out again he could be back in line for a big league call-up.
Expectation for 2008: Clippard needs to pick up where he left off in May, when he was pitching so well the Yankees called him to New York and were impressed by his big league debut. Clippard's a nice pitcher, I really do think the big leagues just knocked him off track. He'll have a chance to get back on track next year, but if he falls off again there are a ton of pitchers waiting to pass him by. My bet is that won't happen.

21. Alberto Gonzalez
Shortstop
Yes, I think Gonzalez's defense is good enough to justify ranking him this high. I look at him as a sure thing to be a top-notch defensive utility infielder in the big leagues, and I think he has a chance to develop into a Gold Glove shortstop with a solid -- but probably never great -- bat.
Expectation for 2008: His bat still needs to develop before the Yankees know whether they've got a big league starter or a reserve. He should be back in Triple-A and if he hits the Yankees will have to decide whether they're going to use him or trade him.

22. Edwar Ramirez
Right-handed pitcher
Wasn't real sure what to do with Ramirez after his late-season struggles in the big leagues, but I kept coming back to his minor league numbers. They're just too good to ignore on a list like this. If he improves his fastball and slider, there's nothing to suggest Ramirez can't be at least a viable middle reliever able to get big strikeouts in big spots.
Expectation for 2008: Having just burst onto the scene, Ramirez might already be facing a make-or-break year. He needs to repeat the 2007 minor league numbers and prove he's not overmatched in the big leagues.

23. Marcos Vechinacci
Third baseman
I know there's a world of potential in Vechinacci's bat, but at some point he has to start living up to it. By all accounts he's a strong defensive player, but he consistently hits around .260 with very little power. I'm not saying Vechinacci won't develop into a legitimate big leaguer, just that it's time to start getting worried about him if you aren't already.
Expectation for 2008: A case could be made for starting Vechinacci in Tampa or Trenton, but the bottom line is he needs to get to Double-A at some point this season and put up solid numbers.

24. Kevin Whelan
Right-handed pitcher
I like Whelan because he's a different type of reliever. He's a ready made, two-inning guy out of the bullpen. His walks this year bothered me, but if you take away that one bad start his Double-A ERA was 2.25 with 67 strikeouts in 52 innings. And no, the Arizona numbers don't bother me too much.
Expectation for 2008: Should be in Triple-A fighting to belong among several major-league-ready relievers. We should find out a lot about Whelan next season.

25. Austin Romine
Catcher
Here's a guy who moved up and down on my list before finally settling at 25. He's supposed to be good defensively and have a good, powerful bat, but he's also a high school guy trying to stick at catcher. That's not easy to do, thus my worries about him. He's one that I really want to see put together at least a half season, but the potential is too great not to rank him fairly high.
Expectation for 2008: My guess is short season, but if he shows something in the spring the Yankees could be tempted into letting him go to Charleston. All he needs is a solid year with the bat and a good year behind the plate for me to consider him much higher.

26. Ryan Pope
Right-handed pitcher
Pretty promising first year from the 2007 third-round pick. Good record. Good ERA. Good strikeouts without many walks. Just a lot to like about him. Wonder how quickly he'll move.
Expectation for 2008: More of the same. My guess is he'll start in Charleston and the Yankees have proven they'll move quickly with college pitchers.

27. Jeff Marquez
Right-handed pitcher
Baseball America had Marquez ranked in the Top 15 Yankees prospects heading into the season and he had a pretty good year in Double-A, but I'm just not as high on him for whatever reason. As I said before, I get the sense that he's doing it with smoke and mirrors and that eventually players will catch up to him, but I could very well be wrong. His groundball ratio was outstanding.
Expectation for 2008: Could be one step away from the big leagues and Marquez will have to prove he belongs with the top pitchers in the organization. If he keeps getting routine grounders, he'll prove me wrong in a hurry and show he belonged much higher on this list.

28. Chase Wright
Left-handed pitcher
What a weird year for Chase Wright. From Double-A to the big leagues, then to Triple-A where he went 8-3, then back to Double-A when the crush of Yankees pitching prospects forced a demotion. In the end, the biggest thing against Wright was the fact he walked a lot of guys. He also gave up quite a few home runs, and not just during that four-homer game in the big leagues.
Expectation for 2008: With all the starting pitcher prospects in the organization, you can't help but wonder whether Wright will eventually move to the bullpen. But if he keeps walking guys, that move won't work at all. He should get another chance at Triple-A to prove his bad stretch is in the past. He needs to consistently excell at Triple-A next season.

29. Colin Curtis
Outfielder
Left-handed hitter got off to a great start in Tampa but slowed when he got to Trenton. Honestly, I don't have a lot to say about him other than the fact he just strikes me as a solid player across the board. He just needs to keep playing. (And if he could develop some power, that would be nice.)
Expectation for 2008: Gets a second chance at Double-A. There aren't a lot of outfielders chasing him, so Curtis shouldn't have a lot to worry about. He'll get a real chance to prove he belongs at that level.

30. Damon Sublett
Second baseman
Very nice numbers across the board for the first-year pro, to the point that he should shoot up this list if he's able to duplicate them next season. I especially liked that combination of on-base percentage and raw power coming from a second baseman.
Expectation for 2008: Full-season pitchers could be a problem, but if Sublett keeps putting up numbers the Yankees might have a seventh-round steal on their hands.

31. Brad Suttle
Third baseman
Fourth-round pick this year had great numbers at Texas but got off to a dreadful start in Hawaii during winter ball. that's why he's not in my top 30. Something like a .220 average wouldn't cause much concern, but a .091 average in Hawaii with three errors in 23 games is cause for at least a little hesitation.
Expectation for 2008: Like to see him in Low-A Charleston where he'll have to establish himself as the top third baseman among several drafted this year.

32. Carmen Angelini
Shortstop
I'm basing a lot of this ranking on what I've read, but reading about a high school shortstop who has the tools to stay at that position and dropped in the draft only because teams were worried he would choose college makes me like Angelini. To me, this is a high ranking for a high school player who barely touched the field in 2007.
Expectation for 2008: No sense rushing the kid, might as well take things slow and let him start in extended spring before going to either Staten Island or the Gulf Coast League. Defense first, then worry about hitting.

33. Mitch Hilligoss
Third baseman
If he's going to stay at third base, then I'd like to see more power. If he's going to move to second base, I'd like to see that swap happen sooner rather than later. I keep wondering if the Yankees will start to develop him as more of a utility player since that better fits his offensive profile.
Expectation for 2008: Should move up to Tampa where I'd prefer him playing more second base.

34. George Kontos
Right-handed pitcher
Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of Kontos. He had bad numbers at Northwestern, but was still drafted in the fifth round. He had a lot of strikeouts and not many walks in Tampa, but had an ERA just over 4.00 with some brutal starts in July. Might be destined for the bullpen. As I said in the position-by-position, my guess is he's either going to be a pretty good big leaguer or never be a big leaguer at all.
Expectation for 2008: I would guess Kontos will head to Trenton. His Hawaii numbers have been pretty good.

35. Jairo Heredia
Right-handed pitcher
One of the lower-level standouts, Heredia was dazzling in the Gulf Coast League this season. There's nothing not to like about him, I just want to see him do it more than once before I get too worked up over him. Worth following closely but, in my eyes, not worth ranking higher at this moment.
Expectation for 2008: He's still so young that the Yankees could hold Heredia back and let him pitch in short season ball again next year. Might not be a bad idea.

cougarjake13

11-16-2007, 06:28 PM

they should move carmen angelini to the outfield so that when he makes a great catch in centerfield the post the next day can read

angelini's in the outfield

NortonRules

11-16-2007, 07:05 PM

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/files/2007/11/untouchables.jpg

Sorry, but Cano is not untouchable. You need to get a new poster made.
Cano could go for Santana. It's possible. We'd throw Betemit at 2B.

cougarjake13

11-16-2007, 07:07 PM

Sorry, but Cano is not untouchable. You need to get a new poster made.
Cano could go for Santana. It's possible. We'd throw Betemit at 2B.

well who else would you throw on the poster ??? hughes ???

NortonRules

11-16-2007, 07:15 PM

well who else would you throw on the poster ??? hughes ???

I wouldn't have made a poster on the topic. Regarding Santana, anyone could go.
All bets are off concerning a top level starter. Don't get me wrong, I love Joba, Hughes, Ian, Cano and Melky, but any of them are vulnerable. We'll see what happens.
I'm just an asshole on a messageboard.

Kevin

11-16-2007, 07:22 PM

they should move carmen angelini to the outfield so that when he makes a great catch in centerfield the post the next day can read

angelini's in the outfield

http://www.canyonchasers.net/blog/uploads/general/car-crash.jpg

Doctor Z

11-17-2007, 03:25 PM

A-Rod sits down with Seth Everett and talks about nothing. (http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w=mms%3A//a1503.v108692.c10869.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1503/10869/v0001/mlb.download.akamai.com/10869/2007/open/teams07/nya/video/111707_rodriguez_everett_int_400.wmv&pid=gen_video&vid=7759&cid=mlb&v=2&mType=w&urlstr=&mUrl=&type=v_free&_mp=1)

HBox

11-17-2007, 03:44 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-17-2007, 05:12 PM

Knew it was BS (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/17/2007-11-17_joe_girardis_visit_with_mariano_rivera_g.html)

THE LOW(ELL) DOWN: The Yankees are not engaged in talks to bring Mike Lowell to New York to play first base, according to sources. There have been several recent reports that the Yanks, who had contacted Lowell about third base when they believed they had a vacancy there, were pursuing Lowell with the caveat that he move across the diamond. One Boston TV station reported the Yankees had made a four-year offer worth $50 million-$55 million to the 33-year-old. That report, according to a source, was "pure fantasy." The Yankees already have Andy Phillips, Shelley Duncan and Jason Giambi to use at first base and, according to a source, don't want to make a major investment in another player at first, especially if that player would have to switch positions to play there.

Kevin

11-17-2007, 06:11 PM

Rivera expected to accept three year deal. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172007/sports/mariano_rivera_expected_to_take_the_yank_77957.htm )

Hank should really keep his mouth shut about open negotiations.

Now that he has seen he cant get anywhere near that anywhere else, Mo want to "settle" for our offer?? How nice of you Mo! I hope Hank tells him to stick it in his ear.

HBox

11-17-2007, 06:34 PM

Now that he has seen he cant get anywhere near that anywhere else, Mo want to "settle" for our offer?? How nice of you Mo! I hope Hank tells him to stick it in his ear.

Yeah. That's a great idea. That way we can either waste a potential ace as a closer or have a mediocre closer. All so we can stick it to the greatest closer and one of the greatest Yankees of all times. Because he's an asshole. And probably raped children. Who were Yankee fans. And had cancer. And were orphans. With no feet. And big puppy eyes.

Kevin

11-17-2007, 06:38 PM

Yeah. That's a great idea. That way we can either waste a potential ace as a closer or have a mediocre closer. All so we can stick it to the greatest closer and one of the greatest Yankees of all times. Because he's an asshole. And probably raped children. Who were Yankee fans. And had cancer. And were orphans. With no feet. And big puppy eyes.

Exactly! Orphan puppy eyed Cancer child raper!

And last time i checked.. a 315 era for a closer, is quite mediocre..

sailor

11-17-2007, 07:42 PM

Exactly! Orphan puppy eyed Cancer child raper!

And last time i checked.. a 315 era for a closer, is quite mediocre..

old mo is not the mo of old.

Kevin

11-17-2007, 07:50 PM

old mo is not the mo of old.

Hence.. isn't worth 13mil a year.. That's why his stance of this offer wasn't good enough bugs me.. Sure he should have been mad by the way he was treated, but, they more than made it up to him with that ridiculous offer.. A 38 year old closer coming off his worst year, gets 4 MIL higher than any other closer in the sport?? GMs were pissed at Yanks.. Imagine what Paps is gunna want? And he says no?? He now is just being a douche... Jorge felt the same way as him.. But saw with the offer we gave him and he appreciated it.. And unlike Mo, He could have gotten just as much, if not more in the open market.. There is NO catcher near Jorge on market this year..

sailor

11-17-2007, 07:59 PM

Hence.. isn't worth 13mil a year.. That's why his stance of this offer wasn't good enough bugs me.. Sure he should have been mad by the way he was treated, but, they more than made it up to him with that ridiculous offer.. A 38 year old closer coming off his worst year, gets 4 MIL higher than any other closer in the sport?? GMs were pissed at Yanks.. Imagine what Paps is gunna want? And he says no?? He now is just being a douche... Jorge felt the same way as him.. But saw with the offer we gave him and he appreciated it.. And unlike Mo, He could have gotten just as much, if not more in the open market.. There is NO catcher near Jorge on market this year..

mo takin' more than 4 seconds to sign that offer is ludicrous.

Kevin

11-17-2007, 08:03 PM

mo takin' more than 4 seconds to sign that offer is ludicrous.

exactly.

TheMojoPin

11-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Mo's money = mo' problems.

HBox

11-17-2007, 10:22 PM

Kevin

11-17-2007, 10:30 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-18-2007, 03:39 AM

Of all the players to criticize you ar going to criticize Mariano fucking Rivera? As far as I'm concerned he deserves every cent he's gonna get for what he's done. God forbid he tries and get some money. What a bastard. What a greedy dirty bastard.

Players should come crawling on their hands and knees to play for the Yankees. They should have to pay for the privilege to play for the Yankees. They should have to kiss the feet of every fan to play for the Yankees. They should hve to suck hank's dick to play for the Yankees. Want to become a true Yankee? You don't even want to know. It involves the production of a snuff film.

Get off your high horse you arrogant bastards.

OK, so since he has no loyalty to the Yanks, they should show no loyalty in return and give him only what the market will bear for his services. Which I suspect will be around 10-12 per for 2 years. By giving him this contract (especially at his age) WAY over what the market is for relievers, they are showing appreciation for who he is and what he has meant to this organization. And he spits back at them for doing so and says its not enough. You have to factor in the market for his services, its not all about what the player wants, its about reality.

15 mil is too high, WAY too high and the other owners chastised Hank for offering it at the owners meeting the other day. I would revise the offer to the original 3/40 (citing the owners meeting) and let him see if he can do better elsewhere. He won't. It all comes down to the money with Mo, he's never given them a hometown discount once. They've made him the highest paid closer in the sport every time he's signed a deal with them. They owe him nothing at this point, they've paid top dollar for his services every time its come up.

Also if you don't care what the other owners think, you should. The luxury tax could be renamed the "Yankee tax", since hardly anyone else pays into it. And thats by design. That rule was pushed by Bud Selig and passed by the owners because of contracts like this one. If they want to, they can make Hank's life miserable. He should be very careful about setting new ceilings like they did for Posada, and now Mo. George grew careful about these things as he got older, and made many free agents (Mussina, Pavano, etc) take a token amount less to play for the Yanks. Hank would be wise to follow suit.

Bulldogcakes

11-18-2007, 04:24 AM

Patterson added to 40-man (http://riveraveblues.com/2007/11/17/patterson-added-to-40-man/)

Scott Patterson, he of the 77.1 IP, 45 H, 9 ER, 15 BB, 92 K line in 2007, was added to the Yanks 40-man roster yesterday. The chances of seeing the 28-yr old, 6′-7″, 250 lb former Indy baller in the Bronx next year just went up exponentially. Quick skinny: he’s all fastball with a straight over-the-top delivery - the ball looks like it’s dropping out of the sky. Not much of a breaking ball, so he’ll have to be good with his fastball command. Sits at 91-92 with sink, but the downward plane makes it look like 97.

Pretty old for a minor leaguer, but those numbers jump out at you. Also, he pitched for Indy till he was 26 and was converted to a reliever in his last year with them. Since then he has excelled. Yanks have only had him for 2 seasons. Nice story, hope he does well.

BoondockSaint

11-18-2007, 04:33 AM

Maybe Rivera should call Warren Buffett.

Bulldogcakes

11-18-2007, 04:33 AM

AFL review Brett Gardner (http://riveraveblues.com/2007/11/17/afl-review-brett-gardner/)

Age 24, DOB: 8/24/1983

AFL Stats: AVG 343 OBP 433 SLG 380

Background: The book on Gardner would have you believe that he’s a one dimensional slap-hitter that needs to outrun ground balls in order to get on base. That is simply not the case. According to Firstinning, he bunted in only 2% of his AAA appearances last season and his line drive rate was 18%. However, one area he needs to improve is being more aggressive early in the count. In the past, it seemed like his first objective was to draw a walk and if he got two strikes against him he would fight pitches off and hope that he gets another good pitch to hit. So his main goal heading into the AFL was to become a more aggressive hitter by looking for his pitch earlier in the count. This was very important for him to learn because most pitchers at the major league level will make him earn his way on base.

Offense: Gardner is the type of player that won’t blow you away with his stats but when you watch him on a daily basis he can look like one of the most dominant players on the field. During his time in the AFL he not only turned heads with the fans, he also had his own teammates taking notice. There were a couple times that he beat out routine GB’s to the second baseman simply because they couldn’t make the transfer in time. However, his potential is much more than just his speed. He hits line drives consistently and usually drives the ball straight up the middle, which limits his XBH totals, but it’s more than enough to keep the wheels turning with runners on base. The best way to describe his hitting style would be to call him a slasher. He will never be part of the new breed of leadoff hitters but he’s a hard nosed player that knows how to get the most out of his abilities. He’s already displayed many of the key attributes of a good leadoff hitter and he has the potential to be exactly what the Yankees need at the top of their lineup.
Defense: Gardner has been an outstanding fielder throughout his career and currently holds a fielding percentage of .994. One of the lesser known facts about Gardner is that he played his first two years in pro ball (including 2006 AFL) before committing his first error with the Trenton Thunder during the 2007 season. He has excellent range and tracks the ball extremely well with his back to the infield. His arm strength is slightly above average for a center fielder and his accuracy allows him to pickup the occasional outfield assist.

This is why Melky is expendable. Gardner is just about ready, and Austin Jackson is right behind him. Scouts rate player skills on a 20/80 scale, his speed rates an 80. He's as fast as Jose Reyes. Good plate discipline/OBP, very tough to double up. Could be the pure leadoff man they've been looking for and give them an element of pure speed which will diversify their attack and help the Yanks win close games. This is the kind of player I can see Girardi falling in love with, and if/when someone goes down with an injury he'll be very hard to take out of the lineup.

sailor

11-18-2007, 06:55 AM

Snoogans

11-18-2007, 06:59 AM

the yankees offered him way more than any other team would pay him and it still wasn't enough for mo. no one pays for the privilege of being a yankee, but they seem to expect the yankees to pay more than fair market value; more than other teams would pay those same players.

How do you know that? They offered it to resign him. It doesn't mean he isn't going to take it, but he didn't even get to see the market. The deal will still be there if he chooses to sign it.

In fact, ESPN just said as i was typing this that Rivera is accepting the deal for 3 years and 45. Thats what FA's do, they look around, he didnt see anything he liked, so he came back.
But HOW DARE HE go on the market and hear out other offers, since you know, who is anyone else but the YANKEES

Doctor Z

11-18-2007, 07:24 AM

Mo to stop being a douche early this week. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7460538)

sailor

11-18-2007, 07:47 AM

How do you know that? They offered it to resign him. It doesn't mean he isn't going to take it, but he didn't even get to see the market. The deal will still be there if he chooses to sign it.

In fact, ESPN just said as i was typing this that Rivera is accepting the deal for 3 years and 45. Thats what FA's do, they look around, he didnt see anything he liked, so he came back.
But HOW DARE HE go on the market and hear out other offers, since you know, who is anyone else but the YANKEES

you didn't disprove a thing i said, hell you kinda proved my point. the yanks offered him more than anyone else would and he still decided to look for more. as everyone predicted, he didn't find more.

Kevin

11-18-2007, 09:16 AM

you didn't disprove a thing i said, hell you kinda proved my point. the yanks offered him more than anyone else would and he still decided to look for more. as everyone predicted, he didn't find more.

Exactly.. And everyone on the planet knew he was not getting anywhere near what they offered. Its not like we offered 10 11 and Mo thought he can get more or an extra year, or if he came off his best year ever. He was not getting 15 per year ANYWHERE! If the Yanks acted like it would be a privilege to play for the Yanks, they would tell him to take less to play here.. They always pay either market value, or more. So that argument makes no sense.

Tenbatsuzen

11-18-2007, 09:19 AM

Patterson added to 40-man (http://riveraveblues.com/2007/11/17/patterson-added-to-40-man/)

Pretty old for a minor leaguer, but those numbers jump out at you. Also, he pitched for Indy till he was 26 and was converted to a reliever in his last year with them. Since then he has excelled. Yanks have only had him for 2 seasons. Nice story, hope he does well.

He's also 2-for-2 in killing his wife and kid!

HBox

11-18-2007, 09:40 AM

Exactly.. And everyone on the planet knew he was not getting anywhere near what they offered. Its not like we offered 10 11 and Mo thought he can get more or an extra year, or if he came off his best year ever. He was not getting 15 per year ANYWHERE! If the Yanks acted like it would be a privilege to play for the Yanks, they would tell him to take less to play here.. They always pay either market value, or more. So that argument makes no sense.

The Yanks aren't acting that way, you are. Just tell me why Mariano hasn't earned the right to see if he can get more money. He hasn't reached free agency before. He's essentially lefty money on the table before. But god forbid he does it now. You treat him like he's done nothing for the franchise, the way BDC turned on Posada.

I don't even disagree that both these contracts are going to be bad in the long run but there's no way I'm gonna turn on them. I wouldn't have turned on them even if they left. They've done too much. If they haven't earned respect, is it even possible?

Kevin

11-18-2007, 09:56 AM

The Yanks aren't acting that way, you are. Just tell me why Mariano hasn't earned the right to see if he can get more money. He hasn't reached free agency before. He's essentially lefty money on the table before. But god forbid he does it now. You treat him like he's done nothing for the franchise, the way BDC turned on Posada.

I don't even disagree that both these contracts are going to be bad in the long run but there's no way I'm gonna turn on them. I wouldn't have turned on them even if they left. They've done too much. If they haven't earned respect, is it even possible?

And i fought BDC when he turned on both.. And i had Mo's back.. But the day he got that offer, EVERBODY said, HOLY SHIT! What an offer! I just think this is Mo being a baby over how he was treated during the Arod thing mid season. And i got that and totally understood it. But this offer more than made up for it.. And any sane person on earth knew he was not getting more. So he is either greedy.. Which i have a hard time believing that Mo is. Or he is just holding a stupid grudge.. Jorge was in the same Position, but he like i said, was rational.. I respect and love the hell out of Mo.. We would have no titles without him. But he is just being a big baby here.

Bulldogcakes

11-18-2007, 06:52 PM

You treat him like he's done nothing for the franchise, the way BDC turned on Posada.

And i fought BDC when he turned on both

I'll say this again, maybe this time you'll get it. The players come and go, my loyalty is to the TEAM. We all have players we like more than others, but when any player spits in the face of the team he also spits at the fans who are loyal to that team. Its one thing to negotiate a contract, its another to go public and knock your employer. I post daily on 2 other Yankee fan sites and I never have to explain this anywhere but here.

You guys should stop worrying about what Spoon is going to think about everything you post. He's in your heads. If you think as Yankee fans you'll ever please him, good luck. Its a fool's errand.

Kevin

11-18-2007, 07:02 PM

BoondockSaint

11-18-2007, 07:05 PM

. Its one thing to negotiate a contract, its another to go public and knock your employer.

It seems to me that Hank is the one going public with every thing. Hank is the one yelling, "Take it or leave it!" In Fact, show me where Rivera knocked the Yanks.

HBox

11-18-2007, 07:22 PM

I'll say this again, maybe this time you'll get it. The players come and go, my loyalty is to the TEAM. We all have players we like more than others, but when any player spits in the face of the team he also spits at the fans who are loyal to that team. Its one thing to negotiate a contract, its another to go public and knock your employer. I post daily on 2 other Yankee fan sites and I never have to explain this anywhere but here.

You guys should stop worrying about what Spoon is going to think about everything you post. He's in your heads. If you think as Yankee fans you'll ever please him, good luck. Its a fool's errand.

So I guess in your world Don Mattingly is a traitorous douchebag. And Andy Petttite, well, he must have been King of the Douchebags. Not only did he leave, he left for less money. He REALLY didn't want to be here. What a cocksucker. And Bernie Williams, he almost went to the Red Sox. He was this close to be a worthless piece of shit. David Cone, piece of shit. Tino Martinez? He was another piece of shit for a while. I guess.

Uniforms and logos don't win championships. Players do.

TheGameHHH

11-18-2007, 07:41 PM

I'll say this again, maybe this time you'll get it. The players come and go, my loyalty is to the TEAM. We all have players we like more than others, but when any player spits in the face of the team he also spits at the fans who are loyal to that team. Its one thing to negotiate a contract, its another to go public and knock your employer. I post daily on 2 other Yankee fan sites and I never have to explain this anywhere but here.

You guys should stop worrying about what Spoon is going to think about everything you post. He's in your heads. If you think as Yankee fans you'll ever please him, good luck. Its a fool's errand.

thats the main thing about what bothers me in your viewpoint. that line is completely subjective and you know it is. only you can determine when somebody is no longer negotiating and then "spitting in your face". that really isnt fair to the player involved.

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2007, 12:21 AM

So I guess in your world Don Mattingly is a traitorous douchebag. And Andy Petttite, well, he must have been King of the Douchebags. Not only did he leave, he left for less money. He REALLY didn't want to be here. What a cocksucker. And Bernie Williams, he almost went to the Red Sox. He was this close to be a worthless piece of shit. David Cone, piece of shit. Tino Martinez? He was another piece of shit for a while. I guess.

No to all of the above. Mattingly handled his not getting the manager's job with grace and class. Had he expected or demanded to get the job and left in a hussy fit, then yes I'd have a problem with that. And the back page of the NY Post said "Donnie Base-bawl" when everyone thought that was the case. So I was really out a limb all by myself on that one. But anyway, it wasn't the case and he earned more of my respect by how well he handled it when he cleared things up.

Pettite wanted to go home, I never begrudge a player that. Bernie would have been a traitorous douche bag IF HE DID go to the BoSox, but he didn't. Therefore, its all just negotiating BS until that point and he's a Boras client. If anything, he showed loyalty by calling up George at the last minute. Did you have the same complaint when Bosox fans called Boggs and Damon traitors when they signed here? No, you never said a word.

Cone was finished, Tino was let go BY THE TEAM for an MVP winning Giambi. Hideous examples, try again.

Uniforms and logos don't win championships. Players do.

So I guess you root for whoever wins the WS each year. Since the teams don't matter to you. Great logic.

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2007, 02:40 AM

http://www.nomaas.org/images/cashmogold.jpg

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2007, 02:51 AM

Bergen Record's Caldera says its a done deal 3/45 (http://njmg.typepad.com/yankeesblog/2007/11/mo-is-back.html)

From MLB trade rumors
Rivera Agrees To Deal With Yanks

Pete Caldera of the Bergen Record has the scoop: Mariano Rivera has agreed to the Yankees three-year, $45 million offer. Caldera's source is a friend who spoke to Rivera today, so I suppose it's not official official.

Caldera also reports that the friend said, "He would have taken two years and an option." Wonderful. So not only did the Yankees overpay, but now it's rubbed in their faces.

TheMojoPin

11-19-2007, 05:51 AM

So I guess you root for whoever wins the WS each year. Since the teams don't matter to you. Great logic.

That's not what he said.

cougarjake13

11-19-2007, 06:00 AM

all this bickering and the yanks are just not gonna win again

why bother ???

and before you jump on me the mets will go nowhere as well

Kevin

11-19-2007, 10:12 AM

Arod MVP (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3119020)

Stunner!

TheGameHHH

11-19-2007, 10:54 AM

Arod MVP (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3119020)

Stunner!

those two voters from Michigan crack me up.

King Hippos Bandaid

11-19-2007, 11:03 AM

A-rod deserved MVP, he always plays good for sub-par teams

welcome to your future of mediocrity

:king:

TheGameHHH

11-19-2007, 11:14 AM

A-rod deserved MVP, he always plays good for sub-par teams

welcome to your future of mediocrity

:king:

im confident now more then ever the Yanks will win a world series very soon, thank you

Kevin

11-19-2007, 11:39 AM

A-rod deserved MVP, he always plays good for sub-par teams

welcome to your future of mediocrity

:king:

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

King Hippos Bandaid

11-19-2007, 11:41 AM

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

im confident now more then ever the Yanks will win a world series very soon, thank you

you're welcome

If the Yankees make the Playoffs, then I will admit I am a Jinx

I will also change my Board Name to Jinxy McJinxJinx

:king:

HBox

11-19-2007, 11:45 AM

How did Bobby Abreu get 4 MVP points?

cougarjake13

11-19-2007, 12:36 PM

How did Bobby Abreu get 4 MVP points?

some ass clown must have voted for him

TheGameHHH

11-19-2007, 12:45 PM

How did Bobby Abreu get 4 MVP points?

when told of his MVP votes Abreu replied: "Is good."

Bulldogcakes

11-19-2007, 06:15 PM

Buster Onley is reporting the Yanks are targeting Braves lefty specialist reliever Ron Mahay (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3235), who had a terrific year last year. This years Ron Villone. Looking for a link.

A.J.

11-20-2007, 04:25 AM

CowCatPies

11-20-2007, 01:00 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-20-2007, 04:16 PM

He would be this years every Brave pitcher, we decide to sign... Which is AWFUL!

Bill Madden says he's the best pitcher in the national league, and that the Yanks have a deal in place.

Don Stugots

11-20-2007, 04:20 PM

Bill Madden says he's the best pitcher in the national league, and that the Yanks have a deal in place.

i wonder what Snoogan's car would say?

CowCatPies

11-20-2007, 04:20 PM

Bill Madden says he's the best pitcher in the national league, and that the Yanks have a deal in place.

Well i guess it is a done deal then.. Bill Madden knows his stuff.

Bulldogcakes

11-20-2007, 04:22 PM

Well i guess it is a done deal then.. Bill Madden knows his stuff.

Staying in character, very nice.

I like this Cowcatpies. He's like my alter ego.

Bossanova

11-20-2007, 04:32 PM

CCP is right. Madden is a clown

Tenbatsuzen

11-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Breaking news:

Mariano originally turned down the deal because it didn't include regular pool maintenance.

...too soon?

Bossanova

11-20-2007, 04:46 PM

Breaking news:

Mariano originally turned down the deal because it didn't include regular pool maintenance.

...too soon?

HAHAHA.

Too soon? Why did you wait so long?

TheGameHHH

11-20-2007, 04:47 PM

is Carl Pavano never comming off the 40 man roster? Is he signed until like 2099?

Kevin

11-20-2007, 04:55 PM

is Carl Pavano never comming off the 40 man roster? Is he signed until like 2099?

He has one more year... But they are thinking of just cutting him.

BoondockSaint

11-20-2007, 04:59 PM

I heard that they were going to include Pavano in the trade for Santana but only in Mauer is included.

Kevin

11-20-2007, 05:02 PM

I heard that they were only going to include Pavano in the trade for Santana but only in Mauer is included.

I heard that its Mournue, not Maur... Yanks need a 1b more..

Edit.. And also, the Yanks would have to get back the 30mil they already payed Pavano... So they can give it to Arod.. I hear both deals are fairly close to being done.

TheGameHHH

11-20-2007, 07:55 PM

Bulldogcakes

11-20-2007, 11:12 PM

I started doing some minor league research thanks to Abrahams blog, BDC's posts and my boredom. I'm now a HUGE Austin Jackson fan and I'm rooting for him to make some serious noise with the Yanks someday.

H-Box turned me on to Abraham's blog. Its one of the best sources around.

Jackson has tremendous abilities, could be an elite player if he puts the baseball instincts together with his natural talents. But thats a big if. He started to do it last year, and was good this year in winter ball as well. This year he goes to AA and thats considered the biggest jump in the minors, so this is a big year for him. There have been a lot of '5 tool' guys who never pan out for all sorts of reasons, so its still up in the air. But he's a good one to watch. If he has a big year in AA, he'll be one of their top prospects.

I know I keep bringing up Gardner, but if Jackson develops he'll be a much better player than Gardner will ever be. Gardner just seems to be closer to the bigs, and his speed intrigues me, especially with Damon and Abreu in the corner OF spots.

A.J.

11-21-2007, 04:45 AM

H-Box turned me on

That don't make him a bad person.

CowCatPies

11-21-2007, 09:30 AM

Some people should not take so much stock, and go crazy over prospects of certain teams. They are just that. Prospects! Me being the HUGE Met fan that i am.. Know how it is for my prospects to go bust.

Mooooooeow!

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2007, 05:27 PM

Two juicy rumors linked by River Ave

Reports: Santana turns down the Twins
By: Ben K. (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster&entryDate=20071121&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dolney_buster%26entryDate %3d20071121)

According to Buster Olney, Johan Santana turned down a five-year, $93-million offer to stay in Minnesota. As this point, the Twins will probably look to trade him, and any team looking to acquire Santana will have to come up with a better offer than that. So let’s play the GM game. If you’re the Yankees, what do you do? Do you offer up a package of top prospects for Santana? Do you hope he hits the market next year and overwhelm him? A six-year commitment of over $20 million is a lot for any player, let alone a pitcher. (32)

and

Melky on the block (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/660754,CST-SPT-torii21.article)
By: Ben K.

In an article on possible destinations for Torii Hunter, the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Yanks are shopping Melky Cabrera in an effort to land some pitching. No one elicits more vehement posting than Melky Cabrera, and I’d just like to say that if the Yanks can spin off a package centered around Melky for some pitching - Dan Haren and Joe Blanton may be on the block soon, for starters - I would pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat. I love his defense, but I’m just not sold on Melky’s offensive capabilities.

Bulldogcakes

11-21-2007, 05:35 PM

For HHH

Plenty of buzz around Austin Jackson (http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2239/Plenty-of-buzz-around-Austin-Jackson.aspx)

Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus have each announced their top prospects from Hawaii Winter Baseball. No. 1 on the Prospectus list and No. 2 on Baseball America's is none other than Yankees center fielder Austin Jackson. Pretty impressive, considering Matt Wieters was also in Hawaii.

The Hawaii league is kind of strange -- a mix of Japanese players, new draftees getting their feet wet and prospects of every shape and size -- but it's no small accomplishment being named one of the top two prospects out there. It was in Hawaii that Joba Chamberlain first made noise during the 2006 offseason.

Jackson got off to a slow start in Hawaii and had an average below .200 through his first eight games, then he caught fire. His average jumped as high as .311 at the end of October and he showed a good mix of power and speed. By all accounts he also impressed defensively. Although he slowed down again in the end, Jackson obviously made an impression. It's good to know that Yankees fans aren't the only ones now projecting Jackson as a top-tier prospect.

Joba Chamberlian first got people's attention as a big time prospect in the Hawaiian league last year. This could put him on the fast track next year.

Kevin

11-21-2007, 05:38 PM

Who is Ben K?? And does he have any sources or any background in baseball??

cougarjake13

11-21-2007, 06:10 PM

Who is Ben K?? And does he have any sources or any background in baseball??

its actually king hippo;s bandaid

Doctor Z

11-21-2007, 06:16 PM

Ben Kenobi? That wizard's just a crazy old man.

http://www.starwars.com/community/news/family/img/20060210.jpg

Kevin

11-21-2007, 06:18 PM

I am just wondering because.. It just seems like he posted a post from some random dude who speculates about what the Yankees should do... And what the hell would be the point of that??

Doctor Z

11-21-2007, 10:21 PM

Welp... so much for pursuing Torii Hunter. Angels got him for 5 years, $80 million... jeeze.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071122&content_id=2306608&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

Kevin

11-21-2007, 10:24 PM

Didn't they give Mathews Jr 50mil to play CF.. Just last year??

TheGameHHH

11-21-2007, 10:33 PM

TheGameHHH

11-21-2007, 10:35 PM

For HHH

Plenty of buzz around Austin Jackson (http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2239/Plenty-of-buzz-around-Austin-Jackson.aspx)

Joba Chamberlian first got people's attention as a big time prospect in the Hawaiian league last year. This could put him on the fast track next year.

im just saying i dig the kid a lot.....reminds me of a guy i used to play ball with who's now in the Mets minor league system. i know hes a prospect and the chances he A) actually pans out and B) does it with the Yanks, are slim. but im throwing my support behind him, thats all im saying.

cougarjake13

11-22-2007, 06:09 AM

im just saying i dig the kid a lot.....reminds me of a guy i used to play ball with who's now in the Mets minor league system. i know hes a prospect and the chances he A) actually pans out and B) does it with the Yanks, are slim. but im throwing my support behind him, thats all im saying.

who's the friend ??

TheGameHHH

11-22-2007, 06:25 AM

who's the friend ??

Wes Swackhammer

cougarjake13

11-22-2007, 06:27 AM

Wes Swackhammer

sounds like a great name

TheGameHHH

11-22-2007, 06:31 AM

sounds like a great name

i think Chris Berman once said the same thing.......it is the best name ever and i wish it was mine.

Kevin

11-23-2007, 10:30 AM

Doctor Z

11-23-2007, 10:40 AM

Kevin

11-23-2007, 10:46 AM

...

AAAAAPPPRILL FOOOOOLLSSSS!!!

Go to school, tell your teacher your a fool, if you don't i don't care. I'll just pull down your underwear..

Seriously though.. Its not like teams have not called the Yanks on Igawa.. People think they can get him to pitch.. Always a market on a still young lefty pitcher..

TheGameHHH

11-23-2007, 10:46 AM

Kevin

11-23-2007, 10:49 AM

im not sure if youre being sarcastic. until you tell me if youre joking or not, im gonna have to wait to respond.

I am not saying he is a centerpeice. or anything like that.. just a peice..

BoondockSaint

11-23-2007, 11:05 AM

Kevin

11-23-2007, 11:13 AM

Somebody's been hitting the bottle a bit early today.

People have called me crazy before..

And have been right most of the time...

Snacks

11-23-2007, 01:18 PM

I just made an awful Igawa joke on the Philly thread.. But that gave me an idea.. You think he would be an interesting chip on a Santana deal?? I am not talking about centerpiece or anything.. But being that he is still young.. Makes a decently manageable salary (4mil).. He would be attractive to Minni?? Maybe adding him would save us from giving a prospect that we wouldn't have to give.. He would have less pressure there, and maybe could pitch well..

as a throw in it might be worth it but I doubt it.

Go to school, tell your teacher your a fool, if you don't i don't care. I'll just pull down your underwear..

Seriously though.. Its not like teams have not called the Yanks on Igawa.. People think they can get him to pitch.. Always a market on a still young lefty pitcher..

how do you know teams have called the yanks about him? Do you work for the yanks? Because I havent heard or read anything about Igawa in months.

Kevin

11-23-2007, 01:24 PM

as a throw in it might be worth it but I doubt it.

how do you know teams have called the yanks about him? Do you work for the yanks? Because I havent heard or read anything about Igawa in months.

I got the answer from Ben K...

Sorry...

They almost had a deal with the Pads last trade deadline for him.. I am just saying.. Still young, lefty.. People always want those.. Again.. i am not saying he is gunna be a huge part of the deal...

And Game.. Being that me and your dad are the only two who know what we are talking about, when it comes to the Yanks.. Ask his opinion on this topic.

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 03:34 AM

Who is Ben K?? And does he have any sources or any background in baseball??

I am just wondering because.. It just seems like he posted a post from some random dude who speculates about what the Yankees should do... And what the hell would be the point of that??

He's a Yankee fan, just like you and me who follows the team closely and gives his opinions on the subject. Just like you and me. If you have a problem with that, I guess nobody should read your posts, either.

Kev, just let us all know what we can and can't post around here.

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 03:53 AM

Santana market heating up, and it sounds expensive (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480346)

One major league star, multiple prospects and a seven-year, $140 million contract.

That's all it will take to add Johan Santana at the Twins' current price — and the likely price for a starting pitcher of his caliber.

The Twins, rival executives say, want at least one big-name major leaguer for Santana, a player such as the Mets' Jose Reyes or Yankees' Robinson Cano.

We shouldn't take these opening demands too seriously, but even bargaining down from this could still be very pricey. As much as I'd love to have Santana, if the price includes Cano, I walk. He's one of the best hitters in baseball at his position, his range factor (surprisingly) is among the best in the AL and you simply can't replace that production. There are no good replacement options via free agency or from the Yankee farm system. You could very well be looking at Alberto Gonzalez playing 2nd if Cano is dealt.

While you also can't replace the best pitcher in baseball, you CAN go after plans B-Haren C-Bedard D-Kazmir E-Peavey F-Sabathia G-Willis and not give up Cano in any of those packages. There are so many fallback options that overspending for one pitcher, as good as he is, is the wrong way to go. Given how stacked the Yankee farm system is with pitchers, you might have enough to get TWO of those other pitchers and be a better team overall.

The fact that there are so many fallback options and that Santana's salary demands are so high I suspect will drive down the asking price from both sides. You get into supply and demand here. The salary Santana will want will limit the number of bidders (demand). It now stands at 3 (Yanks, Bosox and Mets) and is unlikely to change. The amount of fallback positions increases the supply side which also drives down the price.

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 04:19 AM

More Austin Jackson stuff (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/)

Baseball America named Austin Jackson as the No. 2 prospect in the Hawaii Winter Baseball League.

Here is what BA wrote:

"After having a breakout season during which he hit .304/.370/.476 across three levels of the minors, Jackson reported to Honolulu and never slowed down. A premium athlete, Jackson finally grew into his tools in 2007. A line-drive hitter with gap power, Jackson’s profile is likely as a No. 2 or No. 3 hitter with the ability to drive in runs. He is an above-average defender in center field, getting good reads and jumps on balls while running quality routes. While he doesn’t always get out of the batter’s box quickly, he’s a graceful runner. “Once he gets underway he’s a plus-plus runner,” an NL scout said. “He’s the best athlete in this league. He doesn’t have that first-step explosion, but this guy is a real crowd pleaser on the bases.”

BTW-His nickname is "Action Jackson". For that reason alone I want to see him at the stadium this year.

sailor

11-24-2007, 04:20 AM

i know the letters probably don't mean anything, but how is peavy only plan "e"?

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 04:32 AM

Remember CJ Henry? (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/)

In case you missed it: The Yankees signed former first-round pick C.J. Henry as a minor-league free agent. He was one of the prospects sent to Philly for Bobby Abreu. A bust as a SS (and a hitter), Henry now plays OF and will be tried at Class A Tampa.

He was the centerpiece of the Abreu deal. The deal that Fatso and Fruit Loops kept saying would require "Cano or Wang" to get done. Remember that when you listen to them and hear various teams demands for various players. Salary, not just a player's value is always a key factor in trades.

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 04:34 AM

i know the letters probably don't mean anything, but how is peavy only plan "e"?

I thought the same thing, but there was no particular order to that list. I really couldn't decide what order to put any of those pitchers in, they're all terrific starters. Those are just the names that have been rumored to be available this off season.

Kevin

11-24-2007, 05:07 AM

i know the letters probably don't mean anything, but how is peavy only plan "e"?

I think he is plan E because he is an NL pitcher and the Yanks have been burned by "great NL pitchers" before.

And BDC.. Its not like anything that Ben K said was ground breaking stuff. I just do not see the reason for posting something that another guy said on another message board, If he does not have any credible sources.

Kevin

11-24-2007, 05:41 AM

Santana market heating up, and it sounds expensive (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480346)

We shouldn't take these opening demands too seriously, but even bargaining down from this could still be very pricey. As much as I'd love to have Santana, if the price includes Cano, I walk. He's one of the best hitters in baseball at his position, his range factor (surprisingly) is among the best in the AL and you simply can't replace that production. There are no good replacement options via free agency or from the Yankee farm system. You could very well be looking at Alberto Gonzalez playing 2nd if Cano is dealt.

While you also can't replace the best pitcher in baseball, you CAN go after plans B-Haren C-Bedard D-Kazmir E-Peavey F-Sabathia G-Willis and not give up Cano in any of those packages. There are so many fallback options that overspending for one pitcher, as good as he is, is the wrong way to go. Given how stacked the Yankee farm system is with pitchers, you might have enough to get TWO of those other pitchers and be a better team overall.

The fact that there are so many fallback options and that Santana's salary demands are so high I suspect will drive down the asking price from both sides. You get into supply and demand here. The salary Santana will want will limit the number of bidders (demand). It now stands at 3 (Yanks, Bosox and Mets) and is unlikely to change. The amount of fallback positions increases the supply side which also drives down the price.

You are not taking in effect the fact that the Sox will do everything they can to make sure the Yanks do not get him, or if they do, will have to pay a heavy price for him.

Kevin

11-24-2007, 05:51 AM

The next day always hurts the most...

LOTS of question marks going into this off-season. In no particular order:

* Will Joe Torre be back? If not, then who? No.. Girardi
* Will A-Rod be back? No... YES!
* Will Pettitte pick up his option?
* Will Mariano be re-signed?Yes
* Will Posada be re-signed?Yes
* Will the Yankees pick up Abreu's option? Yes
* Will the Yankees pursue Johan Santana?
* Is Mussina finally done? Yes..And No
* Is Clemens finally done? who knows
* What does the Yankees' rotation look like next year?
* Is Joba in that rotation? Or does he stay in the bullpen?
* ...giambi?

Get to speculating, because it helps mask the pain.

Just wanted to go back and see how the check list is shaping up.

And that gave me another thought.. If Arod does not opt out, and made it seemed like he was gone.. Would the Yanks have picked up Abreu's option?? Judging by what these mediocre OFers are getting, they probably would have.. I think they were stupid not to take his 2 year 22mil offer... They would have only had to pay him like 6mil for the 2nd year.. If you take in effect the fact that you would have subtracted 5 mil from his salary this year...

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 06:36 AM

You are not taking in effect the fact that the Sox will do everything they can to make sure the Yanks do not get him, or if they do, will have to pay a heavy price for him.

I don't think they'll go after him as hard as the Yanks will. Here's why. Lets look at the 3 bidders. Mets, Yanks and Bosox.

Mets-Have good talent for OF and some position players, but have little in pitching. That's OK, because the Twins say they want hitters in return since they have a farm system stacked with pitching. The only problem is the Mets talent is mostly in the lower levels. Outside of Milledge, there's nothing MLB ready they can offer. They'll have to go with quantity over quality, and if I'm the Twins I don't do that.

Bosox-Have talent to deal, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Bucholtz/Lester would be a good match with the Twins. Whether or not they are willing to deal it is another matter. Even w/o Santana they are up against the luxury tax ceiling as it is, and adding 20-25 per for Johan will cost them 40% extra. As much as the Bosox want to compete with the Yanks, they don't have the Yankee resources. They're coming off 2 championships, are stretched to the limits as it is and I suspect that Bucholtz and Ellsbury are worth more to them than they'll admit. They allow them payroll-wise to do other things they need to do. They can't simply sign Johan at 20+ and then go sign Rowand for 15 per to fill CF like the Yankees can. I don't think they see Crisp as a viable option anymore. Add the luxury tax and you just increased payroll by 50 mil on top of the 150 they spent last year. I just don't think the Bosox can afford to be a 200 million payroll team. Plus, as much as they'd LIKE to have Johan, they really don't need him and he's not as good in Fenway park (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6441&type=pitching3&three=1) as he is elsewhere. They already have an ace in Beckett and they think Bucholtz can be a future star. Plus, lefties are something you usually don't overspend for when you play in Fenway Park.

Yanks-Have plenty of talent and have the need for a true #1 starter. Left handers tend to do well at Yankee stadium, and Johan sports a 1.25 ERA at Yankee stadium (as opposed to his 3.60 ERA at Fenway). Have excess pitchers to give up, but thats not necessarily a match with the Twins who need a 2B as well as a CF. Overall however, I don't think that will be a deal breaker. If the Yanks offer more/better talent the Twins can always make their own deal for a 2B and be better off overall. Yanks can get him, but will need to overspend in terms of prospects to do so. And I don't think Cano will be part of the deal.

Bulldogcakes

11-24-2007, 06:40 AM

Judging by what these mediocre OFers are getting, they probably would have.. I think they were stupid not to take his 2 year 22mil offer... They would have only had to pay him like 6mil for the 2nd year.. If you take in effect the fact that you would have subtracted 5 mil from his salary this year...

And they could have had Mo in spring training for 2 years 25 mil. I'll don't understand why they do that. Even if the player got injured, they have insurance for that which they pay either way.

Kevin

11-24-2007, 06:45 AM

And they could have had Mo in spring training for 2 years 25 mil. I'll don't understand why they do that. Even if the player got injured, they have insurance for that which they pay either way.

Its so stupid.. even if he has an awful year the year after.. You are still paying him basically 6 mil.. If he has a walk year this yea, He is going to demand alot more than that.. Are there any 09 OF's available, that would make them think that they do not want to be clogged with his contract for 09.. Along with Damon and Matsui??

cougarjake13

11-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Its so stupid.. even if he has an awful year the year after.. You are still paying him basically 6 mil.. If he has a walk year this yea, He is going to demand alot more than that.. Are there any 09 OF's available, that would make them think that they do not want to be clogged with his contract for 09.. Along with Damon and Matsui??

guerrero is up again, unless the angels sign him before he reaches
best on the board is prob carl crawford

linky
(http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html)

Outfielders
Bobby Abreu NYY
Moises Alou NYM
Garrett Anderson * LAA
Rocco Baldelli * TB
Willie Bloomquist SEA
Emil Brown KC
Pat Burrell PHI
Endy Chavez NYM
Carl Crawford * TB
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds STL
Juan Encarnacion STL
Cliff Floyd CHC
Brian Giles * SD
Shawn Green NYM
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Vladimir Guerrero * LAA
Jose Guillen SEA
Raul Ibanez SEA
Geoff Jenkins MIL
Jacque Jones CHC
Mark Kotsay OAK
Rob Mackowiak SD
Kevin Mench MIL
Jason Michaels * CLE
Craig Monroe MIN
Jay Payton BAL
Wily Mo Pena WAS
Scott Podsednik CWS
Manny Ramirez * BOS
Juan Rivera LAA
Rondell White MIN

Kevin

11-24-2007, 09:09 AM

guerrero is up again, unless the angels sign him before he reaches
best on the board is prob carl crawford

linky
(http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html)

Outfielders
Bobby Abreu NYY
Moises Alou NYM
Garrett Anderson * LAA
Rocco Baldelli * TB
Willie Bloomquist SEA
Emil Brown KC
Pat Burrell PHI
Endy Chavez NYM
Carl Crawford * TB
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds STL
Juan Encarnacion STL
Cliff Floyd CHC
Brian Giles * SD
Shawn Green NYM
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Vladimir Guerrero * LAA
Jose Guillen SEA
Raul Ibanez SEA
Geoff Jenkins MIL
Jacque Jones CHC
Mark Kotsay OAK
Rob Mackowiak SD
Kevin Mench MIL
Jason Michaels * CLE
Craig Monroe MIN
Jay Payton BAL
Wily Mo Pena WAS
Scott Podsednik CWS
Manny Ramirez * BOS
Juan Rivera LAA
Rondell White MIN

I would not mind seeing Crawford or Baldelli on the team... Manny and Vlad are too old...

cougarjake13

11-24-2007, 09:11 AM

I would not mind seeing Crawford or Baldelli on the team... Manny and Vlad are too old...

baldelli's too injury prone

Kevin

11-24-2007, 09:15 AM

baldelli's too injury prone

Yea, i know.. But if he ever put it together, he can be a pretty damn good player.

Kevin

11-24-2007, 07:43 PM

Girardi Shows His Hands-On Approach (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/sports/baseball/21yanks.html?_r=1&ex=1353387600&en=14151f92788cbbef&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin)

Two weeks ago, Joe Girardi was in Orlando, Fla., huddling with coaches at the general managers’ meetings to plan spring training for the Yankees. Last week, he was in the Dominican Republic at the team’s new academy, viewing tryouts and speaking to the players, some as young as 16.

Joe Torre was often the only manager in the majors to skip the winter meetings. Girardi, meanwhile, is everywhere. The Yankees are not used to such off-season activity from their manager, but they like it.

Gives credence to BDC's argument on Torre not doing jack shit.

cougarjake13

11-25-2007, 05:36 AM

Yea, i know.. But if he ever put it together, he can be a pretty damn good player.

and if i kept playing football in high school i could be in the nfl

Bulldogcakes

11-25-2007, 06:28 AM

Interesting article from the Twins side (http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1570285.html)

In coming days, the Twins are expected to receive proposals from the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers and possibly other teams, as the industry weighs the heavy price of landing the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

The Twins want at least three premium young players for Santana, and they hope to address their gaping holes at third base or center field.

That could prove tricky, however, as any team that trades for Santana would likely need to sign him to a new deal, with some predicting he will ask for $25 million per year.

His salary demands will be a factor in all of this. Whenever anyone talks trade about this, no one factors in what he'll cost in terms of salary but for the GM's involved I'm sure its a huge issue. It will affect what teams will be involved at all, and how strong their interest will be. Don't forget for most teams, young players are their main tool for keeping their overall payroll down. The Twins will want exactly that for Johan, young MLB ready players. Giving up a lot in terms of talent AND giving him a huge contract just won't add up for some of the teams involved, the Dodgers especially. I also doubt the Mets will spend that on one pitcher. The Bosox could, but they'd have to clear salary elsewhere and I doubt they go nuts for a lefty in Fenway park.

Johan also has a blanket no trade. Even if the Twins work out a deal, he can still veto it if he thinks he can get more $$ elsewhere. So the player will have the final say on where he goes, not the team. That means the best offer may not be the one that lands him in this case. The Yanks will let it be known they will give him what he wants salary wise. You could have a situation like Randy Johnson a few years back where he will insist on going to a certain team, and then the two sides have to work out something both can live with.

Bulldogcakes

11-25-2007, 07:01 AM

Buster Olney's blog on ESPN today:

Our colleague Peter Gammons is hearing that the Twins want this three-player package from the Yankees, in any Santana conversation: pitcher Phil Hughes and center fielders Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson. Given that the Yankees will probably be asked to pay Santana a deal of at least six years and $150 million to convince him to stay, I'd be shocked if they seriously considered that trade. Because part of the equation for the Yankees or any other team, as they make decisions about a possible Santana deal, is this: Even beyond the question of swapping promising young players like Hughes and Cabrera and Jackson, how much money does it save them to have cheap players on their roster. How much will it cost them to replace a Cabrera or Jackson? Without Cabrera or Jackson, the Yankees might have to sign a veteran center fielder in their place in a year or two.

And it's possible that within three or four years, as Santana gets older and Hughes progresses, that Hughes might become something close to what Santana will be then. And you could say the same for Clay Buchholz.

That Buster Onley is one smart cookie. Especially when he agrees with me.

Swap Kennedy for Hughes and I make that deal today. Though if this is where the Twins are now, I suspect this offer will get better in a week or two. Meaning Hughes won't be included in the deal.

cougarjake13

11-25-2007, 07:10 AM

i dont see what the mets have to give up that'll satisfy the twinkies

that is if they are serious about not trading reyes, because other than him and others i dont think we;'ll have the best package out there

TheMojoPin

11-25-2007, 07:16 AM

That Buster Onley is one smart cookie. Especially when he agrees with me.

Swap Kennedy for Hughes and I make that deal today. Though if this is where the Twins are now, I suspect this offer will get better in a week or two. Meaning Hughes won't be included in the deal.

Not gonna happen. The deal won't happen with the Yanks unless Joba or Hughes are involved. There's still too many teams out there that can trump that package with Kennedy instead and still give Santana the money he wants.