2008 New York Yankees Thread

[JPMNICK]

.WE SHOULD GIVE CARL PAVANO AN EXTENSION.

they do not have the money since they want to resign kevin brown

[Kevin]

As these days go by.. I am really not too excited by either guy.. The Girardi pitching thing scares me to death. And i do not know about Mattingly.. But as far as the who interviews better thing.. I find that Utter nonsense.. Charlie Weiss is great on camera and sounds great, while Bellichick sounds like a bumbling idiot.. Who would your rather have??? Who cares how they interview.

[TheMojoPin]

Seriously, why would the Yankees seemingly limit themselves so much in looking for a new manager? It seems like there was never a chance they were gonna look at anyone outside of these three guys. They're the fuckin' Yankees...granted, that's gonna scare away some people, but at the same time, it gives them managerial options other teams can't even dream of. What's the rush?

[Bossanova]

I personally feel that they think they have to hire Mattingly. If he doesn't get the job, he will not stay with the team. If he walks that means they let Torre, Guidry, and Mattingly walk in the same month. They want no part of losing 3 Yankee 'legends"

[Bulldogcakes]

I personally feel that they think they have to hire Mattingly. If he doesn't get the job, he will not stay with the team. If he walks that means they let Torre, Guidry, and Mattingly walk in the same month. They want no part of losing 3 Yankee 'legends"


So if he doesn't get the job he's going to take his ball and go home? Sounds like an awful reason to hire someone, and sounds like the type of guy who can't handle not getting what he wants, and in a big organization like the Yanks and a big city like NY, nobody gets their way as often as they'd like. Wow, if I was hiring someone and they said something like that to me, I'd show them the door. Good riddance.

But its all bullshit anyway. Its just a ploy by the Mattingly backers to apply some pressure to the Yanks, and not a very good one. Congrats for falling for it.

BTW-The Girardi camp countered with THIS RUMOR (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3079140) today. I guess in an attempt to balance the scales some.

I don't buy either one.

[Bossanova]

Yeah, I saw that earilier. You honestly think Mattingly would stay if he lost out to Girardi. You actually think he would be his bench coach? I can't see either going back if that happens.

And I am in the Pena camp

[Bulldogcakes]

Yeah, I saw that earilier. You honestly think Mattingly would stay if he lost out to Girardi. You actually think he would be his bench coach? I can't see either going back if that happens.

And I am in the Pena camp

No, but if he pulled some of Torre's bullshit and said he's never coming back, then fuck him. Torre finally was exposed today by Murray Chass (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/sports/baseball/25chass.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin) for being the deceiving crybaby he was, and its about time. The Yanks caught an enormous amount of crap for the Torre situation, and most of it was either unfair, uninformed or irrational.

Mr. Torre has a credibility problem that we have to deal with before we can move on to new business, like last night’s opening game between the Rockies and the Red Sox.

Mr. Torre, as Derek Jeter refers to him, has spent the past several days explaining his decision to reject the contract offer the Yankees made to allow him to manage them for a 13th season. He held an hourlong news conference last Friday in Rye Brook, N.Y., and he did an interview with Bob Costas that first ran on HBO on Tuesday.

Given some of Torre’s more pointed answers and comments, it was unfortunate that neither Costas nor the reporters at the news conference were aware of Torre’s contract history with the Yankees.

With the benefit of details obtained from information on file in the commissioner’s office, we now know that Torre either suffered a lapse of memory Friday or was counting on his questioners not knowing about some of his contracts with the Yankees, the last two in particular.

The target of Torre’s comments was the offer the Yankees made — one year with a $5 million salary and a possible $3 million in bonuses: $1 million each for reaching, not winning, the three postseason levels — division series, league championship series, World Series.

“I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably the thing I had the toughest time with,” Torre said in response to a question last Friday. “The one year for one thing, the incentives for another thing. The fact that I’ve been there 12 years, I didn’t think motivation was needed.”

•

In his interview with Costas, Torre expanded his views of the incentives.

“I don’t think incentives are necessary,” he said. “I’ve never needed to be motivated. Plus, in my contract, I get a million-dollar bonus if we do win the World Series. So that’s always been there. And, you know, as far as needing incentive to go ahead and win a ballgame, that I thought, I used the term insulting.”

Torre referred to a $1 million bonus for winning the World Series. He indeed had that in his last two contracts, which covered the last six years of his employment. In the 2002-4 contract, he was able to earn $200,000 for winning the division series, $300,000 for winning the league championship series and $500,000 for winning the World Series.

The 2005-7 contract eliminated the division series bonus but provided $400,000 for winning the league championship series and $600,000 for winning the World Series, the bonuses still adding to a maximum $1 million.

Obviously Torre did not object to those bonuses, did not reject them as insulting. He signed those contracts and readily accepted the incentives they offered. Even though the Yankees didn’t win the World Series in those six years, Torre earned $700,000 of a possible $3 million in the first contract but nothing in the second because the Yankees lost the division series each year.

•

But those were not the only incentives in a Torre contract. In the 2002-4 deal, he had bonuses based on the number of games the Yankees won — $100,000 each for 90, 94, 98, 102. He earned an additional $1 million of a possible $1.2 million.

What was that about not needing incentive “to go ahead and win a ballgame”? That thought insulted Torre? Why, then, did he accept $1 million worth of insults in those years? And why wasn’t he willing to accept a potential $3 million in insults for next season?

Torre did not return telephone messages left on his home answering machine, so we don’t know the answers to those questions.

We also don’t know why he was willing to discuss a one-year contract last spring but not accept one year now.

Yes, Torre was prepared to sign a one-year extension.

Torre went to Steve Swindal, who was then a general partner and a George Steinbrenner son-in-law in good standing, and General Manager Brian Cashman and told them he would like to manage the Yankees in the last year at Yankee Stadium.

Swindal, who had negotiated Torre’s existing $20.9 million contract ($6.7 million, $6.7 million, $7.5 million), said that idea was fine with him but would require Torre to take a pay cut. They were talking about a $4.5 million salary, apparently with no insulting incentives.

Their talks, however, died with Swindal’s decline after his D.U.I. arrest and subsequent divorce from Jennifer Steinbrenner. Cashman discussed the contract with Steinbrenner, who told him to wait until after the season.

Torre never mentioned those negotiations, nor did he disclose his profitable contract incentives. Should he have talked about either? Maybe he had no obligation to unless he was asked about them, but he did have a responsibility not to make misleading claims about motivation and insult.

BTW-For those unfamiliar with him, Murray Chass is a consistent CRITIC of the Yankee front office, he's the NYTimes version to Mike Lupica. But in this case even he was on their side.

[Bulldogcakes]

10 Reasons to Hate Red Sox Fans (http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/10_reasons_to_hate_red_sox_fans)



#1. After all those years of incessant whining and crying about how losing builds special character, they finally win and exhibit no grace or dignity or "character" whatsoever.

#2. They dare to complain about the great Manny Ramirez.

#3. Red Sox Nation. Is this a joke? As if the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Giants, Mets and Braves don't have millions of fans throughout the country. And most of those fans, unlike this sudden wave of instant Red Sox rooters, actually follow their teams and don't just wear the cool-looking hats.

Just for the record, it costs $199.95 to join the Ultimate Fan Group of Red Sox Nation. This level of membership comes with the right to purchase two tickets in the Green Monster seats -- for another $140 a pop. You also get a laminated membership card!

Even their own team takes advantage of Red Sox fans.

#4. Their almost inexplicable hatred of Roger Clemens. Let's go through this, once and for all. Clemens was drafted by the Red Sox, came up through the minor league ranks with the club, and eventually became the finest pitcher in the team's history.

The Rocket won three Cy Young awards with the Sox, and could have won five (he placed 2nd in 1990 and third in '92). He also had one of the greatest seasons in pitching history in 1986, when he went 24-4 with a 2.48 ERA and won the American League Cy Young and MVP awards.

However, after the 1996 season, the Red Sox booted Clemens out of town. Make no mistake about that. Clemens wanted to stay, but he was driven out of Boston because the team's general manager felt that he was in the "twilight of his career."

We all know what happened next. Clemens went on to win 162 more games, four more Cy Young awards and two World Series rings. Instead of blaming the team's inept management, however, Boston fans chose to direct their hatred at Clemens. They still hate him to this day.

A real show of class and baseball knowledge by Red Sox Nation.

#5. They absolutely skewered Bill Buckner for his fielding gaffe in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series.

Buckner was a wonderful ballplayer and a really decent guy. He collected 2,715 hits in his career. In 1986, he was one of the best hitters on the team. He smacked 18 home runs, collected 102 RBI and was the club's top slugger in September.

Yet after he misplayed a Mookie Wilson ground ball in the final inning of that tragic Game 6 loss, Boston fans were so cruel to Buckner and his family for so long that the guy eventually had to flee the city. In recent years, fans have tried to reinvent history and claim that they never blamed Buckner. Don't believe it. They killed the guy. He had to move to Idaho, for God's Sake!

Way to stick by your guys, BoSox fans.

#6. Cowboy Up! This may have been the most ridiculous rallying cry in sports history. New England Cowboys. Just like George W. Bush.

#7. Ben Affleck. Star of Gigli. Almost became Mr. Jennifer Lopez. Secretary of State for Red Sox Nation.

#8. Fever Pitch. This is the worst movie ever made, and it's about a Red Sox fan. That couldn't just be a coincidence, could it?

#9. The Sports Guy. ESPN's Bill Simmons is the prototypical Red Sox fan, or so he claims, and he stinks out loud. Every single article that he writes is exactly the same: Red Sox, Patriots, dumb joke about a sitcom, and then a stupid remark about one of his buddies, all of whom seem to have ridiculously annoying nicknames like Burp, Pooper, or the Diaper.

Didn't he say that he was gonna "Die in Peace?" Uh, when?
#10. Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy

Take a good, long look at the Red Sox 2004 World Series roster. Every pitcher, and every single starting position player with the lone exception of Trot Nixon, did not come up through the Red Sox system.

That's right. Manny Ramirez, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling**, David Ortiz, Tim Wakefield, Johnny Damon, Keith Foulke, Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar, Dave Roberts, Orlando Cabrera, Mark Bellhorn, Mike Timlin and Alan Embree were all high-priced free agents or acquired through trades.

Now, examine their 2007 payroll. It's $165 million. That is higher than all but one team in baseball.

This is not a small market club of scruffy underpaid underdogs. These are the New York Yankees, except they are located 300 miles to the northeast.

Despite the club's obvious mercenary approach in recent years, Red Sox fans are always the first to accuse other teams of "buying their championships."
In Conclusion

This article could go on and on. And On. And On.

Of course, there are plenty of real Red Sox fans out there. For those if you who lived through the horrors of 1946, 1967, 1975, 1978, 1986, and 2003, you have earned the right to be as annoying as you want to be.

Cowboy Up!

Very funny stuff. I'd post this in the Bosox thread, but I don't want to piss all over their party.

[TheMojoPin]

Reasons why somebody should root for the Yankees. (http://progressiveboink.com/archive/yankeesbest.htm)

[Tenbatsuzen]

I've been very quiet so I figured it was time to give some opinions.

I like Girardi, and I like Mattingly. Tony Pena was part of the Rooney rule, let's not kid ourselves. However, he did seem to impress.

Mojo: The reason why no one was interviewed outside of people who were connected to the Yankees is because the fans are already pissed at the front office as is, and putting someone in with no connection to the team is just setting them up for failure. You're not going to put Wally Backman in there.

Answer me this: Who out there is qualified for the job, can handle New York, and someone the fans will like, and is available?

Craig Carton brought up an interesting point. Girardi, with all of his cred, wasn't even a .500 manager, and had some personality conflicts. Whether it was the owner of the Marlins being a douche (possible) to Girardi not being fully mature (possible), it's something to think about.

I'm switching my endorsement to Mattingly, and hope that Girardi finds success with another team. (The Dodgers?)

[Doctor Z]

I'm switching my endorsement to Mattingly, and hope that Girardi finds success with another team. (The Dodgers?)

The next manager of Dodgers is named Joe, but it's not Girardi.

[Kevin]

The next manager of Dodgers is named Joe, but it's not Girardi.


Morgan??

[Kevin]

Seriously though... Can You imaging Proctor if Torre was named the Dodger Manager?? I think he would kill himself.

[underdog]

The next manager of Dodgers is named Joe, but it's not Girardi.

Isn't Grady Little the coach of the Dodgers, or did I miss a firing?

[TheMojoPin]

Answer me this: Who out there is qualified for the job, can handle New York, and someone the fans will like, and is available?

What qualifies as qualified? I suppose it's out of the question that they would ever look at someone who is new to the managing game...why not guys who have coached or managed minor league teams? Sometimes it's not a bad idea to start really fresh. If they want to move at least somewhat in a new direction with this team to get back on track, it might not be the worst idea.

[Kevin]

What qualifies as qualified? I suppose it's out of the question that they would ever look at someone who is new to the managing game...why not guys who have coached or managed minor league teams? Sometimes it's not a bad idea to start really fresh. If they want to move at least somewhat in a new direction with this team to get back on track, it might not be the worst idea.

Yea.. If you hate Torre so much, clean the fuck house.. Why keep any of that philosophy?? I thought they should have canned Torre last year for Pinella.. But Torre's boyfriends in the media made sure that didn't happen.. At least Francessa today was fair enough to say that Torre was a hypocrite for the contract thing.. Fag Dog is either totally fucking clueless, or just a sniveling lap dog..(no pun)

[TheMojoPin]

Yea.. If you hate Torre so much, clean the fuck house.. Why keep any of that philosophy?? I thought they should have canned Torre last year for Pinella.. But Torre's boyfriends in the media made sure that didn't happen.. At least Francessa today was fair enough to say that Torre was a hypocrite for the contract thing.. Fag Dog is either totally fucking clueless, or just a sniveling lap dog..(no pun)

It just seems strange that the turnover seems relegated only to Torre...and the general support seems to be for guys to take over that worked as coaches within Torre's system. Why wouldn't more people want at least a somewhat large scale housecleaning? Is it really realistic to lay that much blame at Torre's feet and not the other coaches? Managers typically surround themselves with "their guys." Why do so many people want Torre's guys sticking around or taking over?

[Bossanova]

Isn't Mattingly calmer than Torre (if thats possible)? So the same things are bound to occur.

And I still don't see how Cashman hasn't taken much heat for this year. And yes everyone can pile on with keeping the 3 pitchers. He is still responsible for this team as well as the manager

[Snacks]

So if he doesn't get the job he's going to take his ball and go home? Sounds like an awful reason to hire someone, and sounds like the type of guy who can't handle not getting what he wants, and in a big organization like the Yanks and a big city like NY, nobody gets their way as often as they'd like. Wow, if I was hiring someone and they said something like that to me, I'd show them the door. Good riddance.

But its all bullshit anyway. Its just a ploy by the Mattingly backers to apply some pressure to the Yanks, and not a very good one. Congrats for falling for it.

BTW-The Girardi camp countered with THIS RUMOR (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3079140) today. I guess in an attempt to balance the scales some.

I don't buy either one.

I just said this exact same thing to my cousin before. He cant be a baby about things. My personal opinion is he has no business managing the yanks yet. He was asolid player for years but never managed before. Could you imagine if he fails? The team wouldnt know what to do. I think Girardi should get the chance, but I would love to see Buck back.

No, but if he pulled some of Torre's bullshit and said he's never coming back, then fuck him. Torre finally was exposed today by Murray Chass (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/sports/baseball/25chass.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin) for being the deceiving crybaby he was, and its about time. The Yanks caught an enormous amount of crap for the Torre situation, and most of it was either unfair, uninformed or irrational.



BTW-For those unfamiliar with him, Murray Chass is a consistent CRITIC of the Yankee front office, he's the NYTimes version to Mike Lupica. But in this case even he was on their side.

I liked torre but do feel he thinks he deserved more then he should have. He needed the yanks more then they needed him from the beginning. I think everything could have been handled differently and better but both sides have some blame here. Its over now, time to move on. I will say this. I wouldnt be surprised if Torre managed the yanks again.

[Kevin]

I liked torre but do feel he thinks he deserved more then he should have. He needed the yanks more then they needed him from the beginning. I think everything could have been handled differently and better but both sides have some blame here. Its over now, time to move on. I will say this. I wouldnt be surprised if Torre managed the yanks again.

After how he handled himself in that press confrence.. That will NEVER EVER happen... If he just would have said we parted ways, and such then maybe.. But he really angred the Yanks..

[Snacks]

After how he handled himself in that press confrence.. That will NEVER EVER happen... If he just would have said we parted ways, and such then maybe.. But he really angred the Yanks..

so did billy martin and he was brought back. I dont think it will happen this year and probably not next, but in 3-5 years i could see it.

[Doctor Z]

I don't have high hopes, but I CAN say I am looking forward to Mattingly's first ejection. I can't wait to see him get truly PISSED.

[A.J.]

10 Reasons to Hate Red Sox Fans (http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/10_reasons_to_hate_red_sox_fans)
Very funny stuff. I'd post this in the Bosox thread, but I don't want to piss all over their party.

#4. Their almost inexplicable hatred of Roger Clemens. Let's go through this, once and for all. Clemens was drafted by the Red Sox, came up through the minor league ranks with the club, and eventually became the finest pitcher in the team's history.

The Rocket won three Cy Young awards with the Sox, and could have won five (he placed 2nd in 1990 and third in '92). He also had one of the greatest seasons in pitching history in 1986, when he went 24-4 with a 2.48 ERA and won the American League Cy Young and MVP awards.

However, after the 1996 season, the Red Sox booted Clemens out of town. Make no mistake about that. Clemens wanted to stay, but he was driven out of Boston because the team's general manager felt that he was in the "twilight of his career."

We all know what happened next. Clemens went on to win 162 more games, four more Cy Young awards and two World Series rings. Instead of blaming the team's inept management, however, Boston fans chose to direct their hatred at Clemens. They still hate him to this day.

A real show of class and baseball knowledge by Red Sox Nation.



I guess we Sox fans should show the same class as Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros fans after Clemens burned them too.

[Kevin]

so did billy martin and he was brought back. I dont think it will happen this year and probably not next, but in 3-5 years i could see it.


The anger towards Billy was totaly different.. Its a more hatred with Torre.

[JPMNICK]

anyone hear anything about what arod is going to do? there hasn't been much in the papers or online. did they ever have the meeting together? they have about 2 weeks to get something done or else he is gone

[Kevin]

anyone hear anything about what arod is going to do? there hasn't been much in the papers or online. did they ever have the meeting together? they have about 2 weeks to get something done or else he is gone

After they get done with the manager, they are going to set up a face to face meeting with him and Boras..

[JPMNICK]

After they get done with the manager, they are going to set up a face to face meeting with him and Boras..

so then a manager decision will have to be made in the next few days.

anyone think arod has enough pull with the organization that they will be checking with him before making a decision on the manager

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Id go with Stump Merrill for your Next Coach

:king:

[Doctor Z]

I'm gonna go ahead and lump King Hippo into the 'Closet Yankee Fans' brigade.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

I'm gonna go ahead and lump King Hippo into the 'Closet Yankee Fans' brigade.

:lol:

Keep your friends close, keep your Enemies (Yanks) Closer



:king:

[Doctor Z]

Yep.

Stay in that closet.

[Kevin]

so then a manager decision will have to be made in the next few days.

anyone think arod has enough pull with the organization that they will be checking with him before making a decision on the manager

Fat man said that he talked to few people and before the process started it was going to be a slam dunk for Mattingly. But, Girardi blew them away with his interview.. He was so much better than Mattingly.. Decision won't prob be made until Tuesday.. And the more that it goes, the better shot that Girardi has.

[Doctor Z]

Who's Fat man?

[Kevin]

Oh yea.. Francessa..

[Doctor Z]

Oh... well in that case, it's not true.

[Kevin]

Oh... well in that case, it's not true.

He was right about Torre getting an offer the day before it happend.. So... Who knows..

[Bulldogcakes]

I guess we Sox fans should show the same class as Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros fans after Clemens burned them too.

I would just like to note that AJ is one of the classiest, and likable Red Sox fans around. I never thought of him (or Fallon) when I was reading that list.

Snoogans, on the . . . . . . nah. Never mind. :wink:

[Bulldogcakes]

He was right about Torre getting an offer the day before it happend.. So... Who knows..

I've been waiting for these Girardi leaks. I could tell by the conference calls I posted that Mattingly's interview was so-so, and Girardi's was strong. They both said so. This also proves to me that Brian Cashman is the most important person in the Yankee organization. Without him, we wouldn't have the new focus on rebuilding the farm with Joba, Kennedy, etc. And he is the one pushing hardest for the Girardi candidacy.

I really think Girardi can be a difference making manager. Torre would get scouting reports with opponents weaknesses and then do nothing with them. Girardi will attack those weaknesses aggressively, and have the players prepared to do so. You will also likely see a shift away from the high priced big name stars (who haven't won shit) and toward more hard nosed, do whatever it takes to win-type players who fit his style. "Grinders" as he calls them. Paul O'Niell/Tino Martinez/Derek Jeter types. The types that won championships in the mid 90's.

Also, its been floated that if Girardi gets the job, Paul O'Niell will join him as 1B coach. I LOVE that idea, bring back some of the 98 vibe and O'Niells energy back to the clubhouse.

Keeping my fingers crossed. . . . . . .

[Rube]

Hi, it's me. Lenny.

[Bulldogcakes]

He was right about Torre getting an offer the day before it happend.. So... Who knows..

Everybody had that. To be honest, Kay has everything at least a day or two before Francesa figures out where the wind is blowing. He's WAY more connected to the Yankee front office than Mike is. Mike was a Torre lackey, and Torre and management were at odds with each other for most of the past few years. So they don't give him shit, and now you know why he wanted Torre to stay so bad.

Kay is the guy to listen to for anything related to the Yankee brass. He had the Torre contract offer 3 days before anyone else, and he floated it as "The Answer to the Torre problem" which he came up with himself. Obviously he didn't, he got a tip and was setting himself up to look smart. Sometimes you have to read between the lines with him, but he has all the dirt from the Yankee front office.

[Bulldogcakes]

Yankees should go with another Joe
By Buster Olney (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=3076982)

1. Experience in running a game
Girardi and Pena have managed in the big leagues. Mattingly has not. This is not the only factor, but it is a major factor, and if the Yankees would be taking a leap of faith in hiring someone who has never run a game -- a rotation, a bullpen, the everyday lineup. Mattingly, as one of the great defensive first basemen of all time, was into every pitch, into every moment; he told reporters on his conference call Wednesday that he has spent years thinking along with managers.

But managers will tell you that until you sit in their place and see the game from their perspective, they don't think you really understand or are prepared for the full spectrum of decisions that have to be made.

2. He knows pitching
The Yankees have rebuilt their farm system and are staking their future on the likes of Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes and the like. Girardi, like Pena, has spent a lifetime focused on pitchers: nurturing them, cajoling them, understanding how they hurt mentally and physically, conveying to his managers when the guy on the mound doesn't have it any more, understanding how the stuff one pitcher might match up better against a particular hitter. This could turn out to be a decisive advantage in Girardi's candidacy.

3. He knows New York
Really, all the current candidates know New York. But had the Yankees brought in a Tony La Russa to interview, there would have been an unknown: How is he going to react to the panic that follows every three-game losing streak? How is he going to react to the fallout the first time a Steinbrenner questions his acumen in the newspaper?

Girardi, like Mattingly, knows the culture. Nothing will surprise him.

4. He gets along with fellow employees
Girardi was effectively hired by Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, against the wishes of general manager Larry Beinfest, and the result was a poor working relationship between Girardi and the Florida staff (and we know a lot of this because as Girardi was shoved out the door; officials who didn't like him took a lot of anonymous shots at him). Girardi was an outsider and that became a problem.

That would not be the case with the Yankees, because Girardi has had a longstanding working relationship with GM Brian Cashman and other members of the organization. He knows them, they know him.

5. He knows the media
Girardi's press strategy as a catcher playing for the Yankees seemed to run along these lines: He was always genial and always available and kept reporters at arm's length while not really telling much more than they already suspected, and there was an air about his answers that suggested that he felt that he knew more than you did (and presumably he did).

Which means that, except for the air of I-know-a-little-better-than-you, he wasn't much different than Joe Torre.

The professional distance he kept from reporters didn't play well in Florida, especially because Girardi followed Jack McKeon, a back-slapping, gregarious guy who loved telling stories.

But the writers in New York know Girardi, have a sense of his style, and ultimately, everything he would do as manager of the Yankees would be viewed through a single prism: winning percentage. If the Yankees were to win next year, well, he would be deified, and if they were to lose and failed to make the playoffs, well, he would be roasted.

Great read, lays out the case for Girardi. Very solid reasoning.

If any of the Mattingly supporters have a similar article laying out the qualifications of Donnie, please post it. I haven't seen any with any details or solid reasons.

[TheMojoPin]

I really think Girardi can be a difference making manager. Torre would get scouting reports with opponents weaknesses and then do nothing with them. Girardi will attack those weaknesses aggressively, and have the players prepared to do so. You will also likely see a shift away from the high priced big name stars (who haven't won shit) and toward more hard nosed, do whatever it takes to win-type players who fit his style. "Grinders" as he calls them. Paul O'Niell/Tino Martinez/Derek Jeter types. The types that won championships in the mid 90's.

What in God's name do you base any of this on?

[Kevin]

Everybody had that. To be honest, Kay has everything at least a day or two before Francesa figures out where the wind is blowing. He's WAY more connected to the Yankee front office than Mike is. Mike was a Torre lackey, and Torre and management were at odds with each other for most of the past few years. So they don't give him shit, and now you know why he wanted Torre to stay so bad.

Kay is the guy to listen to for anything related to the Yankee brass. He had the Torre contract offer 3 days before anyone else, and he floated it as "The Answer to the Torre problem" which he came up with himself. Obviously he didn't, he got a tip and was setting himself up to look smart. Sometimes you have to read between the lines with him, but he has all the dirt from the Yankee front office.

yea... After the Torre garbage, i can't listen to Mike and Chris.. And i do not know how people can listen to Kay.. I can't take an inning with him, let alone an entire show..

[RogerDornShortHops]

Donnie Baseball!!!!

I haven't posted since Yanks lost it.....I was at the game.....I cannot stand losing anymore....happy Torre's gone. Should have lost his job after Detroit. I understand the outpouring of emotion but lets face it, the guy is a terrible in-game manager. Time for a change.

DONNIE BASEBALL!!!!!

[RogerDornShortHops]

I liked Michael Kay until he started thinking of himself as a comedian. You have to admit its nice listening to someone that knows and grew up with the team. I know the producer of his radio show, says Kay is actually a real cool guy.

[Kevin]

Donnie Baseball!!!!

I haven't posted since Yanks lost it.....I was at the game.....I cannot stand losing anymore....happy Torre's gone. Should have lost his job after Detroit. I understand the outpouring of emotion but lets face it, the guy is a terrible in-game manager. Time for a change.

DONNIE BASEBALL!!!!!

To another Torre?? With no experience and no personality??

[Snoogans]

To another Torre?? With no experience and no personality??

you guys could always call tire world and see if Lou Brown is still available

[TheGameHHH]

you guys could always call tire world and see if Lou Brown is still available

followed by a quick scouting of the California Penal League to bring in Rick Vaughn as the pitching coach.

[Snoogans]

someone get a head cover for jeter's bat

[spoon]

10 Reasons to Hate Red Sox Fans (http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/10_reasons_to_hate_red_sox_fans)



Very funny stuff. I'd post this in the Bosox thread, but I don't want to piss all over their party.

I guess we Sox fans should show the same class as Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros fans after Clemens burned them too.

I would just like to note that AJ is one of the classiest, and likable Red Sox fans around. I never thought of him (or Fallon) when I was reading that list.

Snoogans, on the . . . . . . nah. Never mind. :wink:


Yankee fans....trying to put the shoe on the other foot now huh!? Hilarious. Look, Clemens is a fucking douche and he played with the Jays too. Fuck him and his Troy Glaus pharmaceutical bag pitching arm to hell. If I were a yankee fan I'd be embarrassed of that aritcle as it looks so much like sour grapes. Let's be honest, did the Sox have a lot of free agent player acquititions to from their WS team, of course. Were they the team to open the floodgates and set the tone for the gap between 90% of the teams in baseball and help keep that gap in tact with front office tactics by the owner and management via a link/ball grasp of Selig? Of course they were.

I don't blame teams for having to adapt and do what they can to stop the insanity that was the yanks in the late 90s/early 00s. It drove up the price for their pick ups, took away the only game in town mentality to big name players and ended their drain on other teams by themselves. In fact, if teams never adjusted the league would be even more boring then it is today. If you happen to be in a normal paying division sure you can slip in, but in the AL East it's you have no chance in hell. Waaa yankee fans, waaa!

[Kevin]

I do not understand why they would want Mattingly.. Just get Girardi already..

And Spoon...

1-6 baby.. 1-6!

[spoon]

Mattingly over Girardi is just plain a mistake. If you want an easy to deal with manager/coach Tenbats, take Norv Turner off SD's hands for crying out loud! If management makes its choices based on logic like that, they'll sink further down in the AL then ever before. Plus as someone stated earlier, Mattingly is just more of the same, and why get rid of Torre if only to hire his less experienced clone who has won nothing, at any level. Sorry Donny B fans, but chosing him isn't smart in my mind. However, egocentric owners/management usually side with lesser, easier to CONTROL managers/coaches. Let's not fool ourselves and think it's bc they want to simply get along better.

Oh and 1-6!? Who gives a fuck!? I told you that when somehow I got the last pick of the draft. Oh and if money was on that thing it'd be a totally different story. Not to mention the stat cats are all over the fucking place. Sorry Kev, some of us have to worry about the leagues they make money in, not the wimpy pussy shit you seem to rest your ballsack with.

[Kevin]

Mattingly over Girardi is just plain a mistake. If you want an easy to deal with manager/coach Tenbats, take Norv Turner off SD's hands for crying out loud! If management makes its choices based on logic like that, they'll sink further down in the AL then ever before. Plus as someone stated earlier, Mattingly is just more of the same, and why get rid of Torre if only to hire his less experienced clone who has won nothing, at any level. Sorry Donny B fans, but chosing him isn't smart in my mind. However, egocentric owners/management usually side with lesser, easier to CONTROL managers/coaches. Let's not fool ourselves and think it's bc they want to simply get along better.

Oh and 1-6!? Who gives a fuck!? I told you that when somehow I got the last pick of the draft. Oh and if money was on that thing it'd be a totally different story. Not to mention the stat cats are all over the fucking place. Sorry Kev, some of us have to worry about the leagues they make money in, not the wimpy pussy shit you seem to rest your ballsack with.

1-6! Otherwise.. I agree...

[Dan 'Hampton]

What is the difference between Girardi and Mattingly? Aren't they both Torre Lite? It seems a big mistake to not search outside their team system for managerial talent. The fact that Cashmen gets a free pass on the teams downturn doesn't make much sense either. He's as much to blame as Torre but apparently if you stock the farm system a bit then your job is safe. One of you guys please give me a reason Girardi is a good manager besides the facts he's a catcher he managed one year in FLA in a situation where he had no pressure what so ever to win, finished the season below 500 and got his bosses pissed at him.

[Bulldogcakes]

What is the difference between Girardi and Mattingly? Aren't they both Torre Lite? It seems a big mistake to not search outside their team system for managerial talent. The fact that Cashmen gets a free pass on the teams downturn doesn't make much sense either. He's as much to blame as Torre but apparently if you stock the farm system a bit then your job is safe. One of you guys please give me a reason Girardi is a good manager besides the facts he's a catcher he managed one year in FLA in a situation where he had no pressure what so ever to win, finished the season below 500 and got his bosses pissed at him.

Here's 5, again. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=3076982) Now you give me 5 for Mattingly.

I would also add that Girardi has 3 rings, Mattingly has zero. And that Mattingly was always thought of as a quiet leader as a player, whereas people knew even when Girardi was playing that he would make a terrific manager someday. He exudes leadership and always has. When Mattingly talks, you check your watch. When Girardi talks, you listen. Thats why he was so good on the YES network, plus he has a great mind for baseball.

And that sub .500 team in Fla has to be viewed in context. That was the year after the Marlins held their fire sale. EVERYONE in baseball predicted that team would lose somewhere around 100 games, that was the year after they sold off Beckett and Lowell to the RedSox, Paul LoDuca and Carlos Delgado to the Mets, Jaques Jones to the Cubs, Luis Castillo to the Twins. Then they lost Closer Todd Jones, P A.J. Burnett, 1B Jeff Conine, INF Lenny Harris, OF Juan Encarnación, SS Alex González, P Brian Moehler, P Ismael Valdéz, and P Paul Quantrill to free agency (after losing Pavano the year before). There was nobody left on the team except Cabrera and Willis that anyone could recognize. Keeping that AAA team in contention for most of the year was close to miraculous.

[Dan 'Hampton]

But wouldn't you agree that it seems shortsighted to only look within the organization ( Yeah Girardi is included there) for a new manager. You guys wanted Torre gone now he is but you're getting ready to replace him with a younger version of him. I'd love to see Mattingly but that's only because of the impending disaster that that would bring. Nice guy but no way you'd want his first managerial job to be the yanks. Girardi barely has more experiance than that(AAAA ball).

[JPMNICK]

I think mattingly is a good bench coach or hitting coach, but to be the main guy I am not so sure. The good thing about him is that he was around, in NYC, when the Yankees sucked in the 80's and early 90's. So he is familiar with what did not work and how things were in the media.

spoon made a great point about what Girardi did with the florida team in one season, but his rift with management might scare off the steinbrenner sons who probably want more of a yes man than someone who is going to question every move

[TheMojoPin]

But wouldn't you agree that it seems shortsighted to only look within the organization ( Yeah Girardi is included there) for a new manager. You guys wanted Torre gone now he is but you're getting ready to replace him with a younger version of him. I'd love to see Mattingly but that's only because of the impending disaster that that would bring. Nice guy but no way you'd want his first managerial job to be the yanks. Girardi barely has more experiance than that(AAAA ball).

The Girardi arguments are based almost totally on intagibles. It's "gut decision" hiring at its finest. I don't think he'd be the worst manager out there, but given how the Yankees are keeping the rest of the coaching and management staff almost intact and only replacing Torre with someone who learned most of his coaching chops under Torre and is going to be surrounded by "Torre guys" if he's hired, the idea that he's going to come in and do things radically different seems like a leap in logic and expectations at the very least. That an organization with so much clout and history willfully limited their manger options is ridiculous.

[TheMojoPin]

There was nobody left on the team except Cabrera and Willis that anyone could recognize. Keeping that AAA team in contention for most of the year was close to miraculous.

Complete BS, both statements. And if you're sticking by the first, that's just a condemnation of Girardi more than anything.

[Kevin]

The Girardi arguments are based almost totally on intagibles. It's "gut decision" hiring at its finest. I don't think he'd be the worst manager out there, but given how the Yankees are keeping the rest of the coaching and management staff almost intact and only replacing Torre with someone who learned most of his coaching chops under Torre and is going to be surrounded by "Torre guys" if he's hired, the idea that he's going to come in and do things radically different seems like a leap in logic and expectations at the very least. That an organization with so much clout and history willfully limited their manger options is ridiculous.

Who is going to be there that is a Torre guy?? Guidry was gone, Torre or no Torre.. Mattingly if he does not get this job, is porbably gone.. Bowa will prob take the M's 3B coach job.. Pena, prob the same thing as Mattingly..

[JimBeam]

That 5 reasons by Olney article is ridiculous just based on #3 alone.

Wouldnt Mattingly who played his entire career in NY get the edge for " knowing NY ' better than some journeyman catcher who spent 3 years here ?

And the fact that Giariadi has 3 rings is meaningless.

If those types of things come into it than Mattingly's a better manager because his career stats dwarf Giradi's.

I'm not really sure why Girardi's 1 year of managing should weigh that much more than Mattingly's inexperience.

Girardi was given a chance and got 1 year out of it. Now all it takes is for the Yankees to give Mattingly that same chance and in 1 year he'll be a better manager because they'll both have had 1 year and Mattingly would probably have won more games.

As far as I'm concerned they both have little experience so why use the 1 year as an advantage for Girardi ?

[Kevin]

spoon made a great point about what Girardi did with the florida team in one season, but his rift with management might scare off the steinbrenner sons who probably want more of a yes man than someone who is going to question every move

I think that it would not matter for 2 reasons

A.. Girardi is smart enough to learn from what happened
B.. Taking on Loria and the Florida Marlins is one thing.. But Taking on The Stienbrenners and The Yankees is a whole nother thing..

If it were Mattingly, it would have happened already.. Plus, you can't hire Mattingly and leave Cashman any dignity whatsoever.. I think its Cashman Girardi, or just Mattingly. Everyone knows who Cashman wants, and if the go with someone else.. Cashman would come off powerless..

[TheMojoPin]

Who is going to be there that is a Torre guy?? Guidry was gone, Torre or no Torre.. Mattingly if he does not get this job, is porbably gone.. Bowa will prob take the M's 3B coach job.. Pena, prob the same thing as Mattingly..

That's a lot of probably's. Unlike most other managerial dismissals/firings/whatevers, it's unusual that there still so many unaswered questions in terms of who stays and who goes. And it brings up another point...who does Girardi bring in? His inexperience means he doesn't have a group of guys he knows that he can or wants to work with. That means if he brings in a new coaching crew, it's going to be very raw in terms of working together.

[sailor]

yanks ready to offer a-rod record-setting deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3082251).

[Doctor Z]

If the Yankees tack on 5 more years at 30m/yr, and he opts out with the intent of making a couple million extra bucks, then he's a bitch.

When you're getting $230 million in the next 7 years of your life to play baseball (not counting the millions he makes outside of baseball on endorsements, etc.), and you really wanna scratch for an extra 15-20 million dollars, then you are truly a douchebag. If you moved the decimal over 2 spots, and told me I'd see 2.3 million dollars in the next 7 years of my life, I'd be fuckin' jazzed.

[TheGameHHH]

If the Yankees tack on 5 more years at 30m/yr, and he opts out with the intent of making a couple million extra bucks, then he's a bitch.

When you're getting $230 million in the next 7 years of your life to play baseball (not counting the millions he makes outside of baseball on endorsements, etc.), and you really wanna scratch for an extra 15-20 million dollars, then you are truly a douchebag. If you moved the decimal over 2 spots, and told me I'd see 2.3 million dollars in the next 7 years of my life, I'd be fuckin' jazzed.

that i have to admit i agree with.......then, and only then, would i be pissed at A-rod.

[TheMojoPin]

yanks ready to offer a-rod record-setting deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3082251).

If that story is true, I think there's little chance he leaves unless he just absolutely hates it there. He'd be set for 8 more years with more money than God.

[Doctor Z]

Actually, God is a free agent at the end of next year, so don't be surprised if his next contract trumps A-Rod's.

(Boras is His agent.)

[Dan 'Hampton]

Actually, God is a free agent at the end of next year, so don't be surprised if his next contract trumps A-Rod's.

(Boras is His agent.)

And there is why any "common sense" is out the window in these negotiations. Boras gets the MOST possible for his clients. He may resign with the Yankees but don't get it wrong, they need him a lot more than he needs them. And for them to suddenly pinch pennies with the best player in modern history is plain pathetic. They aren't the A's. The gave Clemens an ass-load of cash, but they won't pony up more for A-Rod because without the Rangers cash influx he's too expensive? How does that make any sense?

[Doctor Z]

The gave Clemens an ass-load of cash, but they won't pony up more for A-Rod because without the Rangers cash influx he's too expensive? How does that make any sense?

In the Yankees' defense, it's much easier to pony up the cash for a 3-month commitment than an 8 YEAR commitment. The Clemens deal, whether you believe it worked out or not, did not have much of a risk factor, as it was extremely short-term.

[Kevin]

In the Yankees' defense, it's much easier to pony up the cash for a 3-month commitment than an 8 YEAR commitment. The Clemens deal, whether you believe it worked out or not, did not have much of a risk factor, as it was extremely short-term.

Yea.. If Arod gets hurt next year or so, they have 5 6 years of over 150mil in dead money.. If he leaves this deal on the table, fuck him.. He is not getting anywhere near that on the open market.. If the Yankees are out.. He will be lucky to get as much as he is making now..

[Snacks]

If the Yankees tack on 5 more years at 30m/yr, and he opts out with the intent of making a couple million extra bucks, then he's a bitch.

When you're getting $230 million in the next 7 years of your life to play baseball (not counting the millions he makes outside of baseball on endorsements, etc.), and you really wanna scratch for an extra 15-20 million dollars, then you are truly a douchebag. If you moved the decimal over 2 spots, and told me I'd see 2.3 million dollars in the next 7 years of my life, I'd be fuckin' jazzed.

actually it would be 8 years at 230 million not 7. He wouldnt be opting out for a couple of million more. He wants 30+ million a year for 10 years (borus has said) If he was to accept the 150 extension he would be making 70 million less then he expects. Plus, I dont think he really wants to play in NY. Why would he? He will never be the #1 guy and will never be loved. The guy had one of the best seasons ever and he still heard shit about the playoffs. I think he will go to the Cubs, SF or Angels.

[Bossanova]

I just don't honestly think another team would throw more than 30 mil a year out there. I think he would also fuck himself if he took that deal, because you just took the biggest bargaining chip out of the market. If the Yanks hold true and do not go after him if he opts out, then no one has to go near the said 30 mil.

[spoon]

If the Yankees tack on 5 more years at 30m/yr, and he opts out with the intent of making a couple million extra bucks, then he's a bitch.

When you're getting $230 million in the next 7 years of your life to play baseball (not counting the millions he makes outside of baseball on endorsements, etc.), and you really wanna scratch for an extra 15-20 million dollars, then you are truly a douchebag. If you moved the decimal over 2 spots, and told me I'd see 2.3 million dollars in the next 7 years of my life, I'd be fuckin' jazzed.

If you really believe you wouldn't try to get as much money possible you're out of your mind! I hate to say it but all the power to him. As if the Steinb's are going wanting spending your money all over the tri-state area and all over Florida. Sorry, he only has 8-12 years max left in his playing life and I would try to make as much as possible too. He gets to set up his family for generations and I don't fault him one bit. You comments aren't rational at all, and are tied into wanting him to sign with the yanks or burn. If you would sign for 2.3 vs 4.3 million you'd still be an idiot. Factoring in what he can pick up with advertising no matter where he goes (bc he's so big he doesn't need the NY market like other players), he has more options then most too. The NY advantage doesn't help George/Cashman here and I'm sure Boras will exploit it too. Do you think they aren't using the fact that Texas picks up a ton of the salary for the next few years in how much the average payment the yanks are paying too? Of course he's saying, come on guys, your really only paying an average of $___, when you take out the Texas portion so let's get real.

[spoon]

actually it would be 8 years at 230 million not 7. He wouldnt be opting out for a couple of million more. He wants 30+ million a year for 10 years (borus has said) If he was to accept the 150 extension he would be making 70 million less then he expects. Plus, I dont think he really wants to play in NY. Why would he? He will never be the #1 guy and will never be loved. The guy had one of the best seasons ever and he still heard shit about the playoffs. I think he will go to the Cubs, SF or Angels.

Honestly, I hope he does walk. Without Arod the yanks don't even sniff the playoffs this year.

[Kevin]

If you really believe you wouldn't try to get as much money possible you're out of your mind! I hate to say it but all the power to him. As if the Steinb's are going wanting spending your money all over the tri-state area and all over Florida. Sorry, he only has 8-12 years max left in his playing life and I would try to make as much as possible too. He gets to set up his family for generations and I don't fault him one bit. You comments aren't rational at all, and are tied into wanting him to sign with the yanks or burn. If you would sign for 2.3 vs 4.3 million you'd still be an idiot. Factoring in what he can pick up with advertising no matter where he goes (bc he's so big he doesn't need the NY market like other players), he has more options then most too. The NY advantage doesn't help George/Cashman here and I'm sure Boras will exploit it too. Do you think they aren't using the fact that Texas picks up a ton of the salary for the next few years in how much the average payment the yanks are paying too? Of course he's saying, come on guys, your really only paying an average of $___, when you take out the Texas portion so let's get real.


He is not getting anything near what he wants if the Yankees are out... They all know that.. If he wants to leave because he hates it here.. Fine.. But he will not get his money elsewhere... Yea. The team that signs him will get a boost for a couple years, but when the novelty of him on the team wears off, that will be it. Most teams know that.. Yea you have the factor of him breaking records and that would continue the money for the team.. But thats not a given.. Injuries and such.. Your taking a huge gamble.. It might pay off for you, but you may fall on your face also.. I do not think he gets anywhere near 30 from other teams, let alone over.

[lleeder]

Honestly, I hope he does walk. Without Arod the yanks don't even sniff the playoffs this year.

And that worked out well once they got there.

[Bossanova]

And that worked out well once they got there.

Well Captain Double Play gave it his best

[Kevin]

I'm gonna go ahead and lump King Hippo AND Bossanova into the 'Closet Yankee Fans' brigade.

Agreed...

[Bossanova]

Agreed...

Bwaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaa.

No, seriously I am just tired of looking at the Met thread and just like talking baseball. I will never like the Yankees. My chick is a Yankee fan, and she can not make me change

[spoon]

The real question is who is your boss's team!?

[Kevin]

The real question is who is your boss's team!?

He already said it.. The Yankees...

[TheGameHHH]

If you really believe you wouldn't try to get as much money possible you're out of your mind! I hate to say it but all the power to him. As if the Steinb's are going wanting spending your money all over the tri-state area and all over Florida. Sorry, he only has 8-12 years max left in his playing life and I would try to make as much as possible too. He gets to set up his family for generations and I don't fault him one bit. You comments aren't rational at all, and are tied into wanting him to sign with the yanks or burn. If you would sign for 2.3 vs 4.3 million you'd still be an idiot. Factoring in what he can pick up with advertising no matter where he goes (bc he's so big he doesn't need the NY market like other players), he has more options then most too. The NY advantage doesn't help George/Cashman here and I'm sure Boras will exploit it too. Do you think they aren't using the fact that Texas picks up a ton of the salary for the next few years in how much the average payment the yanks are paying too? Of course he's saying, come on guys, your really only paying an average of $___, when you take out the Texas portion so let's get real.

honest question..........why is it ok, in your opinion, for A-Rod to seek as much money as possible in this situation yet you always complain about teams out of control spending?

[Kevin]

honest question..........why is it ok, in your opinion, for A-Rod to seek as much money as possible in this situation yet you always complain about teams out of control spending?

Its only bad if he gets it from the Yankees, SILLY!!

[Snacks]

He is not getting anything near what he wants if the Yankees are out... They all know that.. If he wants to leave because he hates it here.. Fine.. But he will not get his money elsewhere... Yea. The team that signs him will get a boost for a couple years, but when the novelty of him on the team wears off, that will be it. Most teams know that.. Yea you have the factor of him breaking records and that would continue the money for the team.. But thats not a given.. Injuries and such.. Your taking a huge gamble.. It might pay off for you, but you may fall on your face also.. I do not think he gets anywhere near 30 from other teams, let alone over.

You sure about that? They never though Texas would pay what they did. There are 5 teams that have the money and would over pay just a little to get him out of NY. Think of it this way, if Boston overpaid for him they would be accomplishing 2 main things. 1) getting the best ss or 3b in the game and 2) The yankees will have no one to make up for his lost production, thus hurting their chances for competing with the sox.

To be honest if the Red Sox dont sign him or over offer him they would be fools. They would benefit most from him not being a yankee. Could you imagine how many HR's he would hit as a red sox in that stadium? He hit 55 as a yankee as a sox he might hit 75.

[JPMNICK]

i think the redsox making it this far, and prolly winning the world series actually hurts arods chances of going there.

[Doctor Z]

And so it seems... the Indians should've just won one more game.

[Bulldogcakes]

yanks ready to offer a-rod record-setting deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3082251).
that i have to admit i agree with.......then, and only then, would i be pissed at A-rod.
HHH, I have a feeling you are going to be mad at A-Rod soon. I don't think he's going to take the offer.

First, the Yanks are very sensitive about setting new salary ceilings. They used to do that a lot in the 70's and 80's and George made a lot of enemies in baseball, which eventually led to his suspension. When most free agents sign here, they take slightly less (a token amount) to come here. Pavano, Mussina and Bernie Williams come to mind, I'm sure there are other examples as well. It's pretty much a Yankee policy and has been for years.

That deal won't get him above the magic 30 mil figure that Boras wants to establish, and A-Rod is his best client to do it with. He'd average about 28.5 with an extension of 5 years at around 145-149. I also suspect Boras knows he can get an extra year at his 30 mil on the open market. So if A-Rod gets 30 mil per as a free agent, right away he's making an extra 10 mil over the Yank proposal since his current deal at 27 per for the next 3 years would stay in place with the Yankee offer. That's 10 mil, plus an extra year at 30 and you're talking about 40 mil difference. Not chump change, and the kind of money Boras NEVER leaves on the table.

Where will he go? I don't know. Maybe the Bosox, maybe San Fran, I don't know. He could put up insane numbers in Fenway if he goes there, he doesn't take a month off every year like Manny does. Boras has a history of taking guys to market when everyone says he's nuts, and still getting his money. Thats how Alex got the 27 per in the first place. Remember when he signed that deal, the next highest paid guy was Manny at 20 per, and Manny is every bit the hitter A-Rod is.

This proposal reminds me of the contract they offered Torre, and Bernie last year. It's just good enough for him to turn down. I think the Yanks want him back, but on their terms. If not, they will gladly move on without him. I'm not sure how much sense it makes from a business standpoint to keep him, anyway. They're going to sell out Yankee stadium with or w/o him for the foreseeable future. They're saying goodbye to the old stadium and have the new one after that. YES will be fine either way. They already have plenty of stars on the team, and the young guys will become stars of their own just by playing in New York.

The Yanks have already made a shift in direction under Cashman, cultivating young talent and staying away from quick fix trades. Say what you want, the Yanks were getting to the WS before A-Rod showed up, and haven't since he did. Is it all his fault? Well, his post season struggles certainly contributed. But no, its not all his fault. He's won 2 MVP's here and has put up big numbers. They might not even make the playoffs this year w/o him. But I now understand what Steve Phillips meant when he said he wanted to avoid a "24-1" situation.

Since they started adding lots of big "stars" (A-Rod, Sheff, Giambi, etc) they've been a bully hitting team which beats the piss out of Kansas City but can't win a one run game against a good pitcher. In the playoffs, you face a lot of good pitchers. Bonds put up big numbers in San Fran and they never won anything, same could be said for the Cards with McGwire and the Cubs with Sosa. There are reasons for that, both on the field and payroll-wise. They've become kind of team they used to beat regularly in the playoffs (Texas/Cleveland/Bosox teams of the late 90s) a team with an awesome lineup and suspect pitching. Always remember, the 98 team, the best team anyone here has ever seen play, didn't have a single starter on the All Star team that year. Not one. Those guys weren't big "stars", they were teammates. Its a baseball version of the old "Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell" debate. I can't argue against Chamberlain's numbers, and Wilt supporters can't argue with Russell's rings. Some players put up big numbers, others do little things that help you win games. Personally, I'd rather have a team with 9 Paul O'Niells than 9 A-Rods any day.

[lleeder]

Please don't quote that entire post people. :nono:

[Bulldogcakes]

Please don't quote that entire post people. :nono:

If only Yerdaddy was a baseball fan. He'd be so proud.

[Bulldogcakes]

i think the redsox making it this far, and prolly winning the world series actually hurts arods chances of going there.

I don't think it makes any difference. Remember the last time they won a WS? Pedro, Derek Lowe (who practically carried them there by himself) and Orlando Cabrera were all shown the door. All contributed big time to the WS run, and all were let go.

If they think A-Rod makes sense for them, they'll do it. Don't forget Manny was the centerpiece they built the current team around, and his deal expires after next year. maybe this is the year they actually deal him, clear up 20+ mil in payroll on TOP of the 30+ coming off the books already with Schilling, Lowell, etc. They can afford him. He'd be a beast in Fenway.

[TheMojoPin]

Personally, I'd rather have a team with 9 Paul O'Niells than 9 A-Rods any day.

Joe Morgan, you're going to be banned if you take over BDC's account again.

[lleeder]

Joe Morgan, you're going to be banned if you take over BDC's account again.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Bulldogcakes]

Daily News-All signs point to Girardi (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/28/2007-10-28_joe_girardi_apparent_leader_in_race_for_.html)



While nobody in the Yankee high command was prepared to speculate on Cashman's favorite, sources familiar with the GM's thinking pointed out that Girardi had all the characteristics - an analytical approach, organizational skills that come from having already managed (the Florida Marlins) and a proven ability to handle a pitching staff - Cashman is thought to be looking for.

In addition, one source told the Daily News last night that "in no way would politics enter into Brian's decision" - an indication the Yankees are not concerned about a potential public-relations hit if the popular Mattingly did not get the job.


"This is a decision that is strictly going to be based on who everyone feels gives us the best chance to be in the playoffs next year," a source said.

[sailor]

I don't think it makes any difference. Remember the last time they won a WS? Pedro, Derek Lowe (who practically carried them there by himself) and Orlando Cabrera were all shown the door. All contributed big time to the WS run, and all were let go.

If they think A-Rod makes sense for them, they'll do it. Don't forget Manny was the centerpiece they built the current team around, and his deal expires after next year. maybe this is the year they actually deal him, clear up 20+ mil in payroll on TOP of the 30+ coming off the books already with Schilling, Lowell, etc. They can afford him. He'd be a beast in Fenway.

the fans have unreasonable hatred of him there.

[lleeder]

Daily News-All signs point to Girardi (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/28/2007-10-28_joe_girardi_apparent_leader_in_race_for_.html)

Isn't the Daily News the same paper that said last year after the Yankees lost to Detroit Torre was definately gonna be fired? Their arguements hold no water.

[Bulldogcakes]

Isn't the Daily News the same paper that said last year after the Yankees lost to Detroit Torre was definately gonna be fired? Their arguements hold no water.

Yeah, might as well shut down the newspaper. What was I thinking?

[Bulldogcakes]

the fans have unreasonable hatred of him there.

http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/entries/arod_varitek.jpg

Why?

Lets face it, we've taken enough of their players over the years. I think if they stole one of ours it would be very sweet for them.

[Bulldogcakes]

http://towleroad.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/11/arod1.jpg
http://towleroad.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/11/arod3.jpg

[JPMNICK]

what the fuck is that???

[Kevin]

http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/entries/arod_varitek.jpg

Why?

Lets face it, we've taken enough of their players over the years. I think if they stole one of ours it would be very sweet for them.


I hope he goes there and derails their good team make up and karma.. I am for it!

[Kevin]

what the fuck is that???

He did a skit for letterman back int the spring.. That was his goofy producer or something..

[A.J.]

the fans have unreasonable hatred of him there.

Unreasonsable? You mean when he said in the 2003 offseason that he really wanted to come to Boston then signed with the Yankees instead? Christ, they were marketing A-Rod Red Sox Jerseys before that happened!

[Kevin]

Unreasonsable? You mean when he said in the 2003 off season that he really wanted to come to Boston then signed with the Yankees instead? Christ, they were marketing A-Rod Red Sox Jerseys before that happened!

How was that his fault?? He was willing to LEAVE money on the table, just to get traded there.. It wasn't his fault.. It was a combo of the union and the Redsox not willing to spend an extra 12mil to get him there.. He did everything he could to go there.. And then the Yankees happened..

Edit.. He didnt sign with the Yankees, he was traded there.

[Kevin]

Also..

Now you can't really bash it because You guys are on the way to winning your 2nd title since then..

But.. That deal was basically Manny Nomar for Arod and Magglio Ordonez.. You cant knock it now because of the team success, but can you imagine that lineup..

[TheMojoPin]

He did a skit for letterman back int the spring.. That was his goofy producer or something..

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NKzv8hJHm-A&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NKzv8hJHm-A&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Bulldogcakes]

I hope he goes there and derails their good team make up and karma.. I am for it!

Shhhhh!!!!!!!!!

They're getting the best player in baseball, right? Right?

[Kevin]

Shhhhh!!!!!!!!!

They're getting the best player in baseball, right? Right?

Absolutely!

[Bulldogcakes]

Unreasonsable? You mean when he said in the 2003 offseason that he really wanted to come to Boston then signed with the Yankees instead? Christ, they were marketing A-Rod Red Sox Jerseys before that happened!

Yes, thats unreasonable. He had nothing to do with that. The players union wouldn't approve the deal, because A-Rod agreed to defer too much of his contract. If anything, he was one of the good guys in that situation.

[Kevin]

Yes, thats unreasonable. He had nothing to do with that. The players union wouldn't approve the deal, because A-Rod agreed to defer too much of his contract. If anything, he was one of the good guys in that situation.


It wasn't Deferring.. He was going to Leave the 12mil.. Meaning not get it back.. Thats what the union had a prob with.. Griffy Jr deferred much more than that with his Reds deal, and it still got approved.. Arod was giving back money.. And the union did not want to set that precedent

[TheMojoPin]

Absolutely!

Ah, yes...because it was ARod that derailed the Yankees the last few years. Of course, that makes total sense.

[A.J.]

Unreasonsable? You mean when he said in the 2003 offseason that he really wanted to come to Boston then signed with the Yankees instead? Christ, they were marketing A-Rod Red Sox Jerseys before that happened!


We really need to get sarcasm tags. Mikey, Jon? Chop chop! :tongue:

[lleeder]

I can't wait til November 11th all this manager and A-rod talk is just unbearable anymore.

[Kevin]

Ah, yes...because it was ARod that derailed the Yankees the last few years. Of course, that makes total sense.

I know he wasnt the only one responsible, thats just stupid.. But i kinda want this whole group gone.. Giambi Matsui, etc.. Now If you ask me which one id want back if i had to chose.. It def be Arod.. But i am will to start over with the Young pitchers and build a different type of team.. But would i be angry if Arod is back? No..

[A.J.]

Shhhhh!!!!!!!!!

They're getting the best player in baseball, right? Right?

Absolutely!

Barry Bonds?

[Bulldogcakes]

YANKS WON'T GO TO $30M FOR A-ROD (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10282007/sports/yankees/no_big_deal.htm)

The Yankees understand they will have to give Rodriguez a raise if they want him to return, but according to a person with knowledge of the Yankees' plans, they aren't prepared to go to the $30 million a year Boras believes is out there for his client, who next month will cop his second AL MVP in three years. Nor are the Yankees going anywhere close to the 12 years Boras has mentioned for his 32-year-old client.

As I suspected. Then they won't get him, period. And they're not stupid, they know that. They'll offer to make him the highest paid player in baseball, he'll turn them down and look like the bad guy. But he'll get more elsewhere, and they'll love him wherever he lands. Unless its Boston, and he chokes in the playoffs like he did here.

[Kevin]

YANKS WON'T GO TO $30M FOR A-ROD (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10282007/sports/yankees/no_big_deal.htm)



As I suspected. Then they won't get him, period. And they're not stupid, they know that. They'll offer to make him the highest paid player in baseball, he'll turn them down and look like the bad guy. But he'll get more elsewhere, and they'll love him wherever he lands. Unless its Boston, and he chokes in the playoffs like he did here.

Honestly can people stop reading every artical out there and takin it for truth.. These things are strategically planted out there for leverage.. Most of these things turn out to be false.. We will know what happens 10 days after the WS..

[Kevin]

For the Love of God, Gammons still thinks the Arod Manny trade is 80% done, and it will still happen

[Bulldogcakes]

I know he wasnt the only one responsible, thats just stupid.. But i kinda want this whole group gone.. Giambi Matsui, etc.. Now If you ask me which one id want back if i had to chose.. It def be Arod.. But i am will to start over with the Young pitchers and build a different type of team.. But would i be angry if Arod is back? No..

Thats it, its really about the pitching. I'd like to see a team of less egos and more guys who will do whatever it takes to win. Sign Aaron Rowand, trade for Santana and hire Girardi. I got sick of all the drama that surrounds Alex about 2 years ago. He was great this year, but I think he knew it was his walk year all along.

Put it this way. Compare A-Rod numbers to Jeters. No comparison, right?
Now who would you like to have up at the plate World Series Game 7 bases loaded, 2 out, down by 1 run. Again, no comparison. Some guys maintain or raise their game in big spots and others shrink. The Yanks are all about big spots. If not, lower the payroll to 120 mil and just blend in with the rest of the league.

[lleeder]

Thats it, its really about the pitching. I'd like to see a team of less egos and more guys who will do whatever it takes to win. Sign Aaron Rowand, trade for Santana and hire Girardi. I got sick of all the drama that surrounds Alex about 2 years ago. He was great this year, but I think he knew it was his walk year all along.

Put it this way. Compare A-Rod numbers to Jeters. No comparison, right?
Now who would you like to have up at the plate World Series Game 7 bases loaded, 2 out, down by 1 run. Again, no comparison. Some guys maintain or raise their game in big spots and others shrink. The Yanks are all about big spots. If not, lower the payroll to 120 mil and just blend in with the rest of the league.

I agree with you except for this postseason. Jeter was like :wacko: at the plate.

[Bulldogcakes]

Honestly can people stop reading every artical out there and takin it for truth.. These things are strategically planted out there for leverage.. Most of these things turn out to be false.. We will know what happens 10 days after the WS..

I already posted that earlier, so that was just me backing up what I already think. But you're right, much of this is probably posturing.

And I still don't think they'll give him 30 mil.

[sailor]

Unreasonsable? You mean when he said in the 2003 offseason that he really wanted to come to Boston then signed with the Yankees instead? Christ, they were marketing A-Rod Red Sox Jerseys before that happened!

he tried to go there, but the union wouldn't let him. what should he have done? unreasonable.

[lleeder]

I already posted that earlier, so that was just me backing up what I already think. But you're right, much of this is probably posturing.

And I still don't think they'll give him 30 mil.

That won't stop us from using another 25 pages up on the matter.:tongue:

[Bulldogcakes]

I agree with you except for this postseason. Jeter was like :wacko: at the plate.

True. He'll never admit it, but his knee was hurting all year. If he admits it, he looks like A-R . . . . . like he's making excuses.

[Kevin]

I agree with you except for this postseason. Jeter was like :wacko: at the plate.

What people do not know about Jeter is He had been playing with a really bad knee for months.. Any other player would have been sitting.. It was really swollen.. You not hear that because DJ is not the type of guy to make any excuses whatsoever.

[A.J.]

he tried to go there, but the union wouldn't let him. what should he have done? unreasonable.

Scroll up to post #612.

[Bulldogcakes]

That won't stop us from using another 25 pages up on the matter.:tongue:

This is going to be a very interesting off season. The most changes, and biggest changes in years. Its already started with the manager, and if they pick Girardi they will be signaling a lot of other changes and building a very different team than we've seen in the past few years.

[lleeder]

What people do not know about Jeter is He had been playing with a really bad knee for months.. Any other player would have been sitting.. It was really swollen.. You not hear that because DJ is not the type of guy to make any excuses whatsoever.

Then they should have pinch hit Wilson Betemit for him. :wink:

[sailor]

Scroll up to post #612.

typical unreasonable boston request.

[A.J.]

typical unreasonable boston request.

:laugh:

[TheGameHHH]

What people do not know about Jeter is He had been playing with a really bad knee for months.. Any other player would have been sitting.. It was really swollen.. You not hear that because DJ is not the type of guy to make any excuses whatsoever.

instead youre making the excuse for him. Jeter has been amazing, but take his dick out of your mouth for a second. Hurt knee or not he fucking BLEW in the playoffs this year. Killing more rallies then i can count.

[Bulldogcakes]

instead youre making the excuse for him. Jeter has been amazing, but take his dick out of your mouth for a second. Hurt knee or not he fucking BLEW in the playoffs this year. Killing more rallies then i can count.

Absolutely, but he's also been great in the playoffs more times than I can remember. So he gets a mulligan. Other players who've been awful in the playoffs most of the time don't get a pass. Jeter's earned it, they haven't.

[Kevin]

instead youre making the excuse for him. Jeter has been amazing, but take his dick out of your mouth for a second. Hurt knee or not he fucking BLEW in the playoffs this year. Killing more rallies then i can count.

What?? ... i am not using it as an excuse.. If you read any of my posts regarding Jeter I have been VERY critical of him in the past.. From the way he has handled his captancy to his play in the playoffs.. All i was stating that the Knee was a HUGE part of his problems. . But then again I am not a front runner.. Mr Pats Yankees Devils and probably Spurs.Or is it now heat.. Or Celtics..

[TheGameHHH]

What?? ... i am not using it as an excuse.. If you read any of my posts regarding Jeter I have been VERY critical of him in the past.. From the way he has handled his captancy to his play in the playoffs.. All i was stating that the Knee was a HUGE part of his problems. . But then again I am not a front runner.. Mr Pats Yankees Devils and probably Spurs.Or is it now heat.. Or Celtics..

i think im just gonna take my chances with whoever wins the West, it'll either be the Spurs, Suns, or Dallas but I gotta wait till June to see. how can you say you didnt use it as an excuse? didnt you just say whether we realize it or not his knee was a huge issue? how is that not making an excuse for poor play?

[TheGameHHH]

Absolutely, but he's also been great in the playoffs more times than I can remember. So he gets a mulligan. Other players who've been awful in the playoffs most of the time don't get a pass. Jeter's earned it, they haven't.

A mulligan? Seriously? I don't think you earn a free pass to suck. I'm pretty sure even Jeter himself would say, 'Yea, I blew.' I mean, theres nothing you can do about it. We're all human and we're all gonna fuck up, it happens. But you don't earn free passes because of your past merit.

[Kevin]

i think im just gonna take my chances with whoever wins the West, it'll either be the Spurs, Suns, or Dallas but I gotta wait till June to see. how can you say you didnt use it as an excuse? didnt you just say whether we realize it or not his knee was a huge issue? how is that not making an excuse for poor play?

Fine.. It was probably an excuse.. But it is warranted for him.. Because of A his past and B the validity of it.. But you can also be fair and say Ortiz has had knee issues and he has still performed pretty well in the playoffs.. But they are two totaly different players..Otriz has so much power to spare that even with a not so OK knee, he can still generate power that Jeter cant even when fully healthy..


And i would wait to see how much the Bulls give up for Kobe before making a choice..

[TheGameHHH]

Fine.. It was probably an excuse.. But it is warranted for him.. Because of A his past and B the validity of it.. But you can also be fair and say Ortiz has had knee issues and he has still performed pretty well in the playoffs.. But they are two totaly different players..Otriz has so much power to spare that even with a not so OK knee, he can still generate power that Jeter cant even when fully healthy..


And i would wait to see how much the Bulls give up for Kobe before making a choice..

yea im just not buying the whole past thing. i dont know how to really put my feelings on this subject into words very well, but its simply how i feel. i dont think that Jeter should be given a free pass. your job is to show up when called upon, not to say, 'well i did it in the past, so its ok if i dont do it this time' im not saying thats what Jeter said, but its certainly how people are making it out.

[Kevin]

yea im just not buying the whole past thing. i dont know how to really put my feelings on this subject into words very well, but its simply how i feel. i dont think that Jeter should be given a free pass. your job is to show up when called upon, not to say, 'well i did it in the past, so its ok if i dont do it this time' im not saying thats what Jeter said, but its certainly how people are making it out.

Would you bash Brady if he has a Bad game vs Indy in the playoffs and you lose? Or Marty?

[TheGameHHH]

Would you bash Brady if he has a Bad game vs Indy in the playoffs and you lose? Or Marty?

yea, if Brady threw for like 120 yards no touches and 3 picks in the AFC Title game against Indy, i would absolutly say he has to shoulder blame. I'm not bashing anybody, i wasn't bashing Jeter. I'm saying he has to shoulder blame. And Marty has to already start shouldering blame because he hasn't exactly been sharp this year. But the whole Devils team needs to take a fucking look in the mirror right now because they are looking embarrassing.

[Bulldogcakes]

A mulligan? Seriously? I don't think you earn a free pass to suck. I'm pretty sure even Jeter himself would say, 'Yea, I blew.' I mean, theres nothing you can do about it. We're all human and we're all gonna fuck up, it happens. But you don't earn free passes because of your past merit.

Sure, you do. You can't expect someone to be great every time. Thats just unreasonable.

I wasn't upset when the Yanks lost the series in 01. They had just won the series 4 of the past 5 years. Fuck it, you can't win em all. The Yanks have been to the WS 39 times and won 26. Thats 2 of 3, and its by far the best record in all of sports. Can't win em all.

[Doctor Z]

I wasn't upset when the Yanks lost the series in 01. They had just won the series 4 of the past 5 years. Fuck it, you can't win em all. The Yanks have been to the WS 39 times and won 26. Thats 2 of 3, and its by far the best record in all of sports. Can't win em all.

...Dude, I'm fuckin' STILL upset about that shit.

[A.J.]

The Yanks have been to the WS 39 times and won 26. Thats 2 of 3, and its by far the best record in all of sports.

Boston Celtics = 16 championships in 19 NBA Finals appearances.

[Bulldogcakes]

...Dude, I'm fuckin' STILL upset about that shit.

It was a great series, but when you need last minute heroics from Scott Broscius every night, your luck is going to run out sooner or later.

[TheGameHHH]

...Dude, I'm fuckin' STILL upset about that shit.

hahahaha......me too. whenever an announcer starts talking about Louis Gonzalez i cover my ears and start yelling because i know theyre going to eventually say something about game 7. what makes me most upset about that night is thats that night Mo became human. whatever, im done talking about it. thats the most ive said about that game in a long time.

[Kevin]

...Dude, I'm fuckin' STILL upset about that shit.

Ol Torre brings in the infield with Mr Bloop hit on the mound.. One of the many brilliant Torre moves..

[Bulldogcakes]

Boston Celtics = 16 championships in 19 NBA Finals appearances.

I didn't mean winning percentage, even though it sounded that way. I meant the 26 part.

[TheMojoPin]

Put it this way. Compare A-Rod numbers to Jeters. No comparison, right? Now who would you like to have up at the plate World Series Game 7 bases loaded, 2 out, down by 1 run. Again, no comparison. Some guys maintain or raise their game in big spots and others shrink. The Yanks are all about big spots. If not, lower the payroll to 120 mil and just blend in with the rest of the league.

What the hell are you talking about? You'd rather ignore entire seasons for one hypothetical AB that likely will not happen? STOP BEING JOE MORGAN.

[Doctor Z]

Honestly, as slow and painful as the '04 collapse was... Game 7 of '01 still hurts the most. I'm eternally bitter. I still feel like the Yankees have 27.

[Bulldogcakes]

From MLB trade rumors (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/10/28/leading_questions_addressed/?page=5)

Nick Cafardo expects the Orioles to shop Miguel Tejada this winter, which would surprise no one. But he's also hearing that Erik Bedard could be available. Trades of either might be unpopular with the fanbase. The trade market for starters could be hopping if Johan Santana, Bedard, and C.C. Sabathia are made available.

Thats good news. It will help lower the price for Santana, and if you can't get him you just go after Bedard.
If they bring in Mazzone as pitching coach then Bedard will be an even better fit. They are said to have worked very well together this year, and Bedard had his best year ever.

[Doctor Z]

Has anyone else realized that the only people paying attention to this World Series are Boston fans? I've never seen so much off-season speculation and trade rumors WHILE the World Series was still going on in my life.

[Kevin]

From MLB trade rumors (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/10/28/leading_questions_addressed/?page=5)



Thats good news. It will help lower the price for Santana, and if you can't get him you just go after Bedard.
If they bring in Mazzone as pitching coach then Bedard will be an even better fit. They are said to have worked very well together this year, and Bedard had his best year ever.

Yea.. OK.. Teams will really believe that Angelos is going to give his best pitcher to us.. And not ask for all 3 youngsters..

[TheMojoPin]

From MLB trade rumors (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/10/28/leading_questions_addressed/?page=5)



Thats good news. It will help lower the price for Santana, and if you can't get him you just go after Bedard.

The talk with Bedard that's been going around in the local Baltimore press for a while now is that he has made it very clear to management in the clubhouse that he does not want to be there. That said, they're not going to give him up for nothing. Disgruntled or not, they don't just have to give him up, so they're likely going to want a proven young starter and a decent pitching prospect in return. There's been a lot of talk in Chicago for 2 weeks now about the Cubs attempting a blockbuster for Tejada and Bedard together...the two teams have done business a lot in recent years and the Cubs last president took over as the O's GM. It's been suggested something along the lines of Cedeno, Carlos Marmol, Rich Hill, Donald Veal and Felix Pie or Eric Patterson (Pie would make sense if the one big FA the Cubs are supposedly targeting, Fukudome out of Japan, works out) could get it done. That would give them a 1-3 starting lineup of Zambrano, Bedard and Lilly...not too bad.

[A.J.]

I didn't mean winning percentage, even though it sounded that way. I meant the 26 part.

Ah. Gotcha.

[TheGameHHH]

Ol Torre brings in the infield with Mr Bloop hit on the mound.. One of the many brilliant Torre moves..

clearly it was Torre's fault, it had nothing to do with Mo launching a easy double play ball into center field.

[Kevin]

clearly it was Torre's fault, it had nothing to do with Mo launching a easy double play ball into center field.

Well.. Do you bring in the inf vs a guy that gives up bloops?? Was it all Torre's fault?? Nope.. But it was an asinine move..

[Doctor Z]

clearly it was Torre's fault, it had nothing to do with Mo launching a easy double play ball into center field.

Stop... it hurts too much.

[TheGameHHH]

Stop... it hurts too much.

that was the worst of it. i promise now, its over. lets go back to pretending it didnt happen

[sailor]

I didn't mean winning percentage, even though it sounded that way. I meant the 26 part.

juventus has 27 league cahmpionships, not counting 11 international titles. http://img84.echo.cx/img84/8427/tongue00154kq.gif

[Doctor Z]

Boy, THAT 4-PEAT was a LOT OF FUN! So... the quest for #28 continues. Can we do it in '08?!

[TheGameHHH]

Boy, THAT 4-PEAT was a LOT OF FUN! So... the quest for #28 continues. Can we do it in '08?!

you mean the quest for 29 my friend, dont forget how we mashed the crappy pitching of Josh Beckett in '03. It was almost as if the Yanks knew every pitch he was about to throw.

[Doctor Z]

See, as annoying as the '03 disappointment was, it still doesn't compare to being 3 outs away from another title with Mo on the mound, after a purely magical World Series. 2001 seemed like sheer destiny, especially with what was going on in NY at the time.


GOOD THING WE WON IT!

[Bulldogcakes]

juventus has 27 league cahmpionships, not counting 11 international titles. http://img84.echo.cx/img84/8427/tongue00154kq.gif

Oh yeah? Well I don't care how many "cahmpionships" Juventus has.

Juventus can go suck my big black dick. Not the one in my drawer, the real one.

[JPMNICK]

See, as annoying as the '03 disappointment was, it still doesn't compare to being 3 outs away from another title with Mo on the mound, after a purely magical World Series. 2001 seemed like sheer destiny, especially with what was going on in NY at the time.


GOOD THING WE WON IT!

01 was the biggest disappoint for me personally. 1st of they are the fucking Dbacks and it was post 9-11 so close to everything happening. it just seemed so great especially with all the comebacks in the game before.

either way, that was the best world series i have ever seen. even though my team lost, still a GREAT series.

[Bulldogcakes]

01 was the biggest disappoint for me personally. 1st of they are the fucking Dbacks and it was post 9-11 so close to everything happening. it just seemed so great especially with all the comebacks in the game before.

either way, that was the best world series i have ever seen. even though my team lost, still a GREAT series.

They had 2 HOF starting pitchers on that staff, Johnson and Schilling. That wins a short series most of the time. Its not like we lost to last year's Cardinals.

[JPMNICK]

They had 2 HOF starting pitchers on that staff, Johnson and Schilling. That wins a short series most of the time. Its not like we lost to last year's Cardinals.

it was not a short series, it was the full 7 games. and i was not trying to take anything away from the Dbacks, but there is no history there. it's not like they lost to the cubs, or the redsox. it was just a small market expansion team who came to NYC and beat the yanks 2 months after 9-11. i give that team all the credit in the world. that to me was such a fucking gutsy win

[Kevin]

Face it.. I know we were 3 outs away from winning but, we had no buisness going to a 6th game in that series let alone being 3 outs away.. We hit like 150 for the series. And got blasted in game 2 and 6... It still hurts though..

[Bulldogcakes]

it was not a short series, it was the full 7 games.

Thats just an expression. All playoff series are called "short series" by many baseball types.

[Bulldogcakes]

Reports: Yankees choose Girardi (http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/)

According to reports by Buster Olney and the New York Daily News, Yankees officials have reached a consensus on their favorite for the new manager, and that man is Joe Girardi. The next step is for Brian Cashman to bring his recommendation to the Steinbrenners, as they will have the final say. There are no reports of ownership’s feelings, but recent statements by Hank Steinbrenner indicate that he is on the same page as Cashman.

Hank-"As far as myself and Brian, there’s always been a slight favorite, but only a slight favorite. Me and Brian have always agreed on who that is."

Obviously, if the reports that Cashman and other Yankee officials have selected Girardi are true, then the logical conclusion is that he is Girardi is Hank’s choice as well. Buster Olney believes that, whatever the Steinbrenners think, ultimately they will go with Cashman’s recommendation.

It’s basically, from what I understand, [Cashman’s] choice and there is going to be a rubber stamp on his recommendation.

I'm not gonna celebrate just yet. But there has been buzz about this today. Nobody has anything similar about Mattingly.

[TheGameHHH]

Reports: Yankees choose Girardi (http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/)



I'm not gonna celebrate just yet. But there has been buzz about this today. Nobody has anything similar about Mattingly.

you shouldn't really celebrate anything until we make it out of the first round in October of '08.

[Bulldogcakes]

you shouldn't really celebrate anything until we make it out of the first round in October of '08.

Thats a long time to wait between celebrations. I need to blow off some steam once in a while, you know.

I'm going to celebrate when this is official, when we trade for Santana, sign Aaron Rowand, resign Posada and Mo, and when Pettite picks up his option. I like to celebrate. A-Rod I won't celebrate, I'm ambivalent about Alex. Either way, I'm fine.

Anyway, it makes sense for Cashman to leak this. It makes it harder to back out at the last minute, if anyone was going to.

[lleeder]

I'm going to celebrate when this is official, when we trade for Santana, sign Aaron Rowand, resign Posada and Mo, and when Pettite picks up his option. I like to celebrate. A-Rod I won't celebrate, I'm ambivalent about Alex. Either way, I'm fine.


So basically you don't intend to celebrate anytime soon?

[Kevin]

So basically you don't intend to celebrate anytime soon?

Full artical on him celabrating coming up!

[Kevin]

Reports: Yankees choose Girardi (http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/)



I'm not gonna celebrate just yet. But there has been buzz about this today. Nobody has anything similar about Mattingly.

I really really hope that this isnt another case of ESPN just throwing shit out there without any real reaserch.. Just to say you heard it here first..

[spoon]

Thats a long time to wait between celebrations. I need to blow off some steam once in a while, you know.

I'm going to celebrate when this is official, when we trade for Santana, sign Aaron Rowand, resign Posada and Mo, and when Pettite picks up his option. I like to celebrate. A-Rod I won't celebrate, I'm ambivalent about Alex. Either way, I'm fine.

Anyway, it makes sense for Cashman to leak this. It makes it harder to back out at the last minute, if anyone was going to.

Jesus, there is so much wrong with this post I can't even make sense of my anger in order to write it down!

[lleeder]

Jesus, there is so much wrong with this post I can't even make sense of my anger in order to write it down!

So you're saying no celebration? :innocent:

[spoon]

I hear the yanks are gonna sign one starter from every team across the whole league and keep everyone they want to from their own group of hired guns. And to still act like Arod isn't a huge signing/player they need to keep is crazy and typical for a yankee fan. Oh but an aging Posada, 100 year old Mo and divot chinned Petite are WAY more important to them right? The yanks don't deserve that creep of a stud player. I also hear that the yankees are going to use the rape and sign tactic with Tom Brady to take the lineup card to the mound for $20 million a year. And Beckham is in line for a $22 million dollar contract to help kick out Torre's remaining shit from the clubhouse. HOLY FUCK!

[spoon]

So you're saying no celebration? :innocent:

Oh I celebrated with the Cleveland bugs by moonlight! Who did you think let them loose?

[lleeder]

I hear the yanks are gonna sign one starter from the whole league and keep everyone they want to from their's and I'll still act like Arod isn't a huge signing player they need to keep. Oh but an aging Posada, 100 year old Mo and divot chinned Petite are WAY more important to them right. The yanks don't deserve that creep of a stud player. I also hear that the yankees are going to rape sign Tom Brady to take the lineup card to the mound for $20 million a year. And Beckham is in line for a $22 million dollar contract to help kick out Torre's remaining shit from the clubhouse. HOLY FUCK!

Seems reasonable.

[sailor]

Oh yeah? Well I don't care how many "cahmpionships" Juventus has.

Juventus can go suck my big black dick. Not the one in my drawer, the real one.

eh, that's what happens when you see the typo and tell yourself you'll fix it after you finish the post. oh, well.

[JPMNICK]

eh, that's what happens when you see the typo and tell yourself you'll fix it after you finish the post. oh, well.

don't let him knock you down. you are funny and an excellent speller.

[Kevin]

I hear the yanks are gonna sign one starter from every team across the whole league and keep everyone they want to from their own group of hired guns. And to still act like Arod isn't a huge signing/player they need to keep is crazy and typical for a yankee fan. Oh but an aging Posada, 100 year old Mo and divot chinned Petite are WAY more important to them right? The yanks don't deserve that creep of a stud player. I also hear that the yankees are going to use the rape and sign tactic with Tom Brady to take the lineup card to the mound for $20 million a year. And Beckham is in line for a $22 million dollar contract to help kick out Torre's remaining shit from the clubhouse. HOLY FUCK!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd scene..

[Bulldogcakes]

I hear the yanks are gonna sign one starter from every team across the whole league and keep everyone they want to from their own group of hired guns. And to still act like Arod isn't a huge signing/player they need to keep is crazy and typical for a yankee fan. Oh but an aging Posada, 100 year old Mo and divot chinned Petite are WAY more important to them right? The yanks don't deserve that creep of a stud player. I also hear that the yankees are going to use the rape and sign tactic with Tom Brady to take the lineup card to the mound for $20 million a year. And Beckham is in line for a $22 million dollar contract to help kick out Torre's remaining shit from the clubhouse. HOLY FUCK!

http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/GiveAFlipMeter2.gif

You guys trade AJ Burnett yet?

[Marc with a c]

does kevin ever leave this thread?

[Kevin]

does kevin ever leave this thread?

I am only 2nd to the Met fans...

[spoon]

http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/GiveAFlipMeter2.gif

You guys trade AJ Burnett yet?

Any DPs left in him?!

http://www.jetersfordchallenge.com/

[Kevin]

Cnnsi.com has a breaking news that Arod is opting out of his contract.. Do not know how true that is..

[Tenbatsuzen]

Cnnsi.com has a breaking news that Arod is opting out of his contract.. Do not know how true that is..

He can't do it until the series is over.

[spoon]

Cnnsi.com has a breaking news that Arod is opting out of his contract.. Do not know how true that is..

Please tell me its true. Please!!

[lleeder]

Rodriguez's agent Scott Boras said he sent word of the opt-out in writing Sunday and left phone and text messages for Yankees general manager Brian Cashman.

I wonder what the text messages said.

[Kevin]

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2007/10/28/rodriguez.contract/index.html)

Fuck him.. It will make winning the world series sweeter without the greedy bastard.

[Bossanova]

He can't do it until the series is over.

He can opt out whenever, he just has till 10 days after the world Series

[Bulldogcakes]

Any DPs left in him?!

http://www.jetersfordchallenge.com/

If you mean "double penetration", ask Gay-Rod.

I think this tells everyone what Alex felt about his time in NY. He didn't even attempt to negotiate.

LET THE OFF SEASON BEGIN!!!!!

[TheMojoPin]

He can opt out whenever, he just has till 10 days after the world Series

He can tell the Yankees whenever, he's just not officially on the market until 10 days after.

[Kevin]

Rodriguez technically had until 10 days after the World Series ended to exercise his opt-out rights, which were provided in his $252 million Texas deal. However, Boras said Rodriguez felt there was no way he could make a decision to stay in that short a period of time since several situations remain unsettled, including those of Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte.

Stop it.. Thats his excuse?? Please be honest for once and say that your either a greedy fuck or you hate it here. Its gunna be awesome when come January he does not have an offer over 20mil, and Boras makes his usual begging the Yankees to take his players last minute call.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Interesting thought.

If Girardi is in fact the managerial choice and Mattingly decides not to stay, how many people could see him in the Pirates' opening?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Rodriguez technically had until 10 days after the World Series ended to exercise his opt-out rights, which were provided in his $252 million Texas deal. However, Boras said Rodriguez felt there was no way he could make a decision to stay in that short a period of time since several situations remain unsettled, including those of Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte.

Stop it.. Thats his excuse?? Please be honest for once and say that your either a greedy fuck or you hate it here. Its gunna be awesome when come January he does not have an offer over 20mil, and Boras makes his usual begging the Yankees to take his players last minute call.


I think this is bullshit. The Yankees didn't even offer their deal to A-Rod yet. How the fuck can you choose to opt until you hear the deal? Unless, of course, A-Rod hates New York.

[Fezticle98]

Stop it.. Thats his excuse?? Please be honest for once and say that your either a greedy fuck or you hate it here. Its gunna be awesome when come January he does not have an offer over 20mil, and Boras makes his usual begging the Yankees to take his players last minute call.

You're joking about that last part, right?

[BoondockSaint]

Maybe A-Rod had to opt out before they can finalize his player/manager contract.

[Kevin]

You're joking about that last part, right?

The boras calls?? He has done it many times.. last time with Beltran..

[Tenbatsuzen]

it was not a short series, it was the full 7 games. and i was not trying to take anything away from the Dbacks, but there is no history there. it's not like they lost to the cubs, or the redsox. it was just a small market expansion team who came to NYC and beat the yanks 2 months after 9-11. i give that team all the credit in the world. that to me was such a fucking gutsy win

Small Market Expansion team? What the fuck? Phoenix is a top-10 metro area and growing exponentially. It's not Tampa.

And they didn't "come to New York and Beat the Yankees". Yankees were up 3-2 going back to Phoenix for games Six and Seven. They got trounced in G6 and we all know what happened in G7.

Plus in Game 7, they used Schill and Unit.

The reason why this series sucked is because it had Mr. November and the double Byun-Hyung Kim explosions late in the game, so it was a fucking rollercoaster, and we lost, and it was post-9/11.

Not because the quality of the Diamondbacks was so bad.

[Fezticle98]

The boras calls?? He has done it many times.. last time with Beltran..

The no offer over 20 mil. part.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This is why I think this is BS:


Boras wouldn't opt-out now unless he had an offer in his pocket, which means that there's tampering going on.

Boras is greedy, but he's not stupid. If A-Rod's opting out and signs really quickly, there's a problem.

[Kevin]

The no offer over 20 mil. part.

Name me the teams that can afford to give him 25mil let alone 30+.. Boston (which i hope happens) Us.(We are out) Not Anahiem.. Maybe Cubs, but will they get their ownership in tact before hand?

[Doctor Z]

Someone get Scott Brosius on the phone...

[Tenbatsuzen]

Someone get Scott Brosius on the phone...

Wait, what? If he goes to the Red Sox, then we get Mike Lowell. Problem solved.

[HBox]

Wait, what? If he goes to the Red Sox, then we get Mike Lowell. Problem solved.

No, that is definitely not problem solved.

[Doctor Z]

Um... you realize A-Rod is only a 3rd baseman on the Yankees. He's a shortstop everywhere else. The Sox can essentially have A-Rod AND Lowell.

[TheMojoPin]

Name me the teams that can afford to give him 25mil let alone 30+.. Boston (which i hope happens) Us.(We are out) Not Anahiem.. Maybe Cubs, but will they get their ownership in tact before hand?

Nope.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Um... you realize A-Rod is only a 3rd baseman on the Yankees. He's a shortstop everywhere else. The Sox can essentially have A-Rod AND Lowell.

Lowell's in a walk year and wants to come to the Yankees.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The Punjabi Pen Pusher confirms it: Sweeney says A-Rod's opting out.

[HBox]

Next year is going to suck.

[Snacks]

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2007/10/28/rodriguez.contract/index.html)

Fuck him.. It will make winning the world series sweeter without the greedy bastard.

But Torre wasnt Greedy wanting more money then he was offered, which was more then 30% higher then the next highest guy? Just admit it you hate ARod. I have said it 100 times he should go somewhere that the fans will appreciate him. No matter what he does, he cant win with the fans. Even if he had a great post season people would point out the 1 at bat he left a guy on 2nd. HE IS THE REASON THE YANKS MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS. He cant do it all, he had a decent post season and the rest of the team didnt pick him up the same way he has picked up the entire team the whole season.

The yankees are the reason for these high salaries in the first place. They overpaid so many players that teams had to over pay for the 1 or 2 big guys they could afford, now its going to bite the yankees in the ass. They will either pay more or lose their best player.


Name me the teams that can afford to give him 25mil let alone 30+.. Boston (which i hope happens) Us.(We are out) Not Anahiem.. Maybe Cubs, but will they get their ownership in tact before hand?

Yankees
Red Sox
Mets
Angels
White Sox
Cubs
Texas (but they wont be bidding)
Dodgers
SF
Seattle (wont be bidding either but has the money)

I just noticed every team with money is in a liberal (blue) state except the rangers. Dont know why I said it, I just found it interesting.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Next year is going to suck.

Why? A-Rod's a fucking liar. He's a scumbag on the level of Sheffield. Fuck him. I'd rather have the team young and scrappy then dealing with this drama.

In case you didn't realize it, this year kinda sucked too.

[HBox]

Why? A-Rod's a fucking liar. He's a scumbag on the level of Sheffield. Fuck him. I'd rather have the team young and scrappy then dealing with this drama.

In case you didn't realize it, this year kinda sucked too.

And the yanks wouldn't have gone nearly as far as they did without him. Right now Jeter is the biggest right handed power threat this team has.

I'd rather have A-Rod and get to the playoffs than watch a "young and scrappy" team go 81-81.

[Tenbatsuzen]

And the yanks wouldn't have gone nearly as far as they did without him. Right now Jeter is the biggest right handed power threat this team has.

I'd rather have A-Rod and get to the playoffs than watch a "young and scrappy" team go 81-81.

You're spoiled. You're telling me that you wouldn't miss the playoffs next year to get a celebration on the level of what the Sox pulled off last week in the new joint?

[Marc with a c]

sports center is saying he's opting out.

steve phillips is saying yankees aren't bluffing about not resigning him either.

[Bulldogcakes]

Rodriguez technically had until 10 days after the World Series ended to exercise his opt-out rights, which were provided in his $252 million Texas deal. However, Boras said Rodriguez felt there was no way he could make a decision to stay in that short a period of time since several situations remain unsettled, including those of Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte.

Stop it.. Thats his excuse?? Please be honest for once and say that your either a greedy fuck or you hate it here. Its gunna be awesome when come January he does not have an offer over 20mil, and Boras makes his usual begging the Yankees to take his players last minute call.

You're surprised that Alex is being a phony? After 4 years of him being here?

[HBox]

You're spoiled. You're telling me that you wouldn't miss the playoffs next year to get a celebration on the level of what the Sox pulled off last week in the new joint?

I'm not spoiled. A-Rod is going to be good for quite a while longer. And while the Yanks farm system is stacked with pitching, it's not so much with offense. They needed to hold on to as much as offense as they could.

If he doesn't want to be here then fine. But I'm not going to pretend like it's good thing, or that the Yankees are any better off. They aren't.

[Fezticle98]

Wow. Some actual breaking news.

[HBox]

Tom Hicks must be having a party right now. A $21 million party.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm not spoiled. A-Rod is going to be good for quite a while longer. And while the Yanks farm system is stacked with pitching, it's not so much with offense. They needed to hold on to as much as offense as they could.

If he doesn't want to be here then fine. But I'm not going to pretend like it's good thing, or that the Yankees are any better off. They aren't.

Please...your logic has no place here.

[HBox]

Please...your logic has no place here.

Thanks. Can we get Soriano back now please?

[Doctor Z]

Lowell's in a walk year and wants to come to the Yankees.

Yeah, I'm sure Lowell is just dying to get off that championship team that plays in a ballpark MADE for righties.

[Bulldogcakes]

And the yanks wouldn't have gone nearly as far as they did without him. Right now Jeter is the biggest right handed power threat this team has.

I'd rather have A-Rod and get to the playoffs than watch a "young and scrappy" team go 81-81.

Stop. Even without him they have one of the best lineups in baseball.
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Giambi
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Duncan/Meintkievitz
Melky

Lets not make them out to be the Royals. Look at the Bosox lineup that is about to win the WS. Its not stacked top to bottom. And I would invite you to refresh your memory about the CHAMPIONSHIP teams of the late 90's. Look at who was playing 3rd (Hayes, old washed up Boggs, Scott Broscius) and look at those lineups. They were not the murderers row teams all star teams we've come to expect lately, and they WON. The all star at every position team didn't.

BTW-If Melky gets traded in a Santana deal, put Rowand in his place.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Tom Hicks must be having a party right now. A $21 million party.

A $21 million... sexy.. party?

[Kevin]

Sorry to break it to Yankee haters..

But this team is starting to be run like they were run when George got banned.. Smart spending scouting.. Building... Let him go... If we dont win next year eh.. fine This new regime lead by Cashman, is very smart. This team will be on top with a much less payroll in no time.. I mean look how they built their farm.. From bottom 5 to top 5 in 3 years.. Its going continue to build.. And haters wont have their have their payroll battle cry anymore.. Let Arod go where he wants. He can shit in his hat. Like i said in my previous post.. Clean house.. Giambi after this year, Matsui.. etc.. I don't even want Posada or Rivera signd.. Move on.. I will take losing for a year or 2 if it means this team is being run well and being set for up another run.. Its time for change.. This spending has not worked and will not work.

[joeyballsack]

If the Red Sox win tonight and ARod has opted out, it could be the greatest night for a Red Sox fan ever.

[TheMojoPin]

Thanks. Can we get Soriano back now please?

Even though I think the Cubs nebulous ownership situation will crap on them getting ARod short of a miracle, ending up with him and Soriano on the same time would be pretty odd. Would it qualify is ironic?

[HBox]

Stop. Even without him they have one of the best lineups in baseball.
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Giambi
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Duncan/Meintkievitz
Melky

Lets not make them out to be the Royals. Look at the Bosox lineup that is about to win the WS. Its not stacked top to bottom. And I would invite you to refresh your memory about the CHAMPIONSHIP teams of the late 90's. Look at who was playing 3rd (Hayes, old washed up Boggs, Scott Broscius) and look at those lineups. They were not the murderers row teams all star teams we've come to expect lately, and they WON. The all star at every position team didn't.

BTW-If Melky gets traded in a Santana deal, put Rowand in his place.

I just don't get this fucking logic. Getting rid of the best player on the team isn't going magically turn this into the dynasty team. I don't see a Bernie Williams or a Paul O'Neill up there. Giambi, Abreu and Posada are all getting old. It would take a fucking miracle for Posada to replicate his numbers from this year. Cano and Melky are really the only players you can expect to get better. Everyone else is going down. As for Rowand, did you learn anything from the Damon signing?

As far as I'm concerned this just made it much more likely one of the 3 young pitchers is gonna get traded. As of now that lineup is VERY unbalanced. They are going to get absolutely raped by lefties.

[Bulldogcakes]

I'm not spoiled. A-Rod is going to be good for quite a while longer. And while the Yanks farm system is stacked with pitching, it's not so much with offense. They needed to hold on to as much as offense as they could.

If he doesn't want to be here then fine. But I'm not going to pretend like it's good thing, or that the Yankees are any better off. They aren't.

Thats fair. But its not the end of the world, either. I don't want people to start saying this is an 81 win team because Alex hated playing in New York.

About the Yankee farm system, a few position players have asserted themselves recently (CF Austin Jackson, 1B Miranda, and Montero, Tabata in the lower levels) But you can always get position players via free agency. Its harder to get pitching, especially TOP pitching. The Yanks focusing on developing their own arms are doing it exactly right.

[Tenbatsuzen]

It would take a fucking miracle for Posada to replicate his numbers from this year.

You said the same thing in 2006.

[Bulldogcakes]

Sorry to break it to Yankee haters..

But this team is starting to be run like they were run when George got banned.. Smart spending scouting.. Building... Let him go... If we dont win next year eh.. fine This new regime lead by Cashman, is very smart. This team will be on top with a much less payroll in no time.. I mean look how they built their farm.. From bottom 5 to top 5 in 3 years.. Its going continue to build.. And haters wont have their have their payroll battle cry anymore.. Let Arod go where he wants. He can shit in his hat. Like i said in my previous post.. Clean house.. Giambi after this year, Matsui.. etc.. I don't even want Posada or Rivera signd.. Move on.. I will take losing for a year or 2 if it means this team is being run well and being set for up another run.. Its time for change.. This spending has not worked and will not work.

You had me until the "Don't sign Posada and Rivera" part. Then you went too far. The Yanks can sign those two, stay competitive and still develop young players. Its not an either/or. They're the fucking Yankees for crying out loud.

[Kevin]

I just don't get this fucking logic. Getting rid of the best player on the team isn't going magically turn this into the dynasty team. I don't see a Bernie Williams or a Paul O'Neill up there. Giambi, Abreu and Posada are all getting old. It would take a fucking miracle for Posada to replicate his numbers from this year. Cano and Melky are really the only players you can expect to get better. Everyone else is going down. As for Rowand, did you learn anything from the Damon signing?

As far as I'm concerned this just made it much more likely one of the 3 young pitchers is gonna get traded. As of now that lineup is VERY unbalanced. They are going to get absolutely raped by lefties.

And that different from this year... HOW??? Any lefty decent OR crappy raped us. Your logic is the Yankees won't someone to replace him.. Will they get a Arod.. No.. But you build your pitching, You do not need that much hitting. Havent people learned from the past 20 years ITS PITCHING! Sox are winning their pitching is pitching great.. The cards the year before, The wsox the year before... and so on and so on... We need player that FIT! No just throw a big name in.. That clearly has not work..From the Giambi signing, until now.

[Snacks]

Sorry to break it to Yankee haters..

But this team is starting to be run like they were run when George got banned.. Smart spending scouting.. Building... Let him go... If we dont win next year eh.. fine This new regime lead by Cashman, is very smart. This team will be on top with a much less payroll in no time.. I mean look how they built their farm.. From bottom 5 to top 5 in 3 years.. Its going continue to build.. And haters wont have their have their payroll battle cry anymore.. Let Arod go where he wants. He can shit in his hat. Like i said in my previous post.. Clean house.. Giambi after this year, Matsui.. etc.. I don't even want Posada or Rivera signd.. Move on.. I will take losing for a year or 2 if it means this team is being run well and being set for up another run.. Its time for change.. This spending has not worked and will nto work.

and how is the payroll going down? Even losing Arod the payroll will stay the same maybe go up. They will be way over paying for Posada at around 13-15 mil a year and they will be way overpaying for Mo at 15-20 mill a year. Add in a free agent 3rd baseman and your talking about a overall salary going up not down.

Cashman is part of the problem, he is the one who kept moose around and brought petite back at 16 mil a year (i think around there) he is also one of the guys who wanted to bring back clemens at 30 million.
I agree and hope the team lts posada and mo go, I think they are past their prime but still really good, but in order to keep them they will have to over pay and its not worth it. Plus the 3-4 year deals they get might bite them in the ass. They have enough guys that will not be worth their contracts (damon, Giambi, Moose, matsui, petite)

[Kevin]

You had me until the "Don't sign Posada and Rivera" part. Then you went too far. The Yanks can sign those two, stay competitive and still develop young players. Its not an either/or. They're the fucking Yankees for crying out loud.

I just don't want to make the Celtic mistake of keeping your hero's too long.. Jorge is 35 36 and Mo is 38... I do not them clogging up spots and the payroll for 3 4 years when they totaly lose, which will be soon.

[Kevin]

and how is the payroll going down? Even losing Arod the payroll will stay the same maybe go up. They will be way over paying for Posada at around 13-15 mil a year and they will be way overpaying for Mo at 15-20 mill a year. Add in a free agent 3rd baseman and your talking about a overall salary going up not down.

Cashman is part of the problem, he is the one who kept moose around and brought petite back at 16 mil a year (i think around there) he is also one of the guys who wanted to bring back clemens at 30 million.
I agree and hope the team lts posada and mo go, I think they are past their prime but still really good, but in order to keep them they will have to over pay and its not worth it. Plus the 3-4 year deals they get might bite them in the ass. They have enough guys that will not be worth their contracts (damon, Giambi, Moose, matsui, petite)

Muss is 12 per.. and yea that was a mistake.. And i didnt say right away.. But slowly those contracts will go away and the payroll will go down.. As the farm gets rebuilt.. Its a process.

[HBox]

And that different from this year... HOW??? Any lefty decent OR crappy raped us. Your logic is the Yankees won't someone to replace him.. Will they get a Arod.. No.. But you build your pitching, You do not need that much hitting. Havent people learned from the past 20 years ITS PITCHING! Sox are winning their pitching is pitching great.. The cards the year before, The wsox the year before... and so on and so on... We need player that FIT! No just throw a big name in.. That clearly has not work..From the Giambi signing, until now.

They are developing pitching. Whether A-Rod is still here or not is not going to change that. Ask any one of those pitchers if they'd like A-Rod in their lineup. The answer is obvious.

And how are they going to replace him? By signing someone for a lot of money or a trade. Or it's Wilson Betemit. It is not a good situation. This is not a positive move.

[TheMojoPin]

You do not need that much hitting. Havent people learned from the past 20 years ITS PITCHING! Sox are winning their pitching is pitching great.. The cards the year before, The wsox the year before... and so on and so on....

You just named teams that had very good pitching, but also excellent and timely hitting over and over again. Pitching alone isn't going to get it done.

[Doctor Z]

I just don't want to make the Celtic mistake of keeping your hero's too long.. Jorge is 35 36 and Mo is 38... I do not them clogging up spots and the payroll for 3 4 years when they totaly lose, which will be soon.

Yeah, but you also don't wanna make the Knicks mistake and get rid of your heroes too early.

[Bulldogcakes]

I just don't want to make the Celtic mistake of keeping your hero's too long.. Jorge is 35 36 and Mo is 38... I do not them clogging up spots and the payroll for 3 4 years when they totaly lose, which will be soon.

They can work around those two when they get old. Posada can ease into backup catcher and Mo will get buried in the bullpen. You don't have roster problems with either of them.

And this is Baseball, there are good position players available every year via free agency.

[HBox]

Cashman is part of the problem, he is the one who kept moose around and brought petite back at 16 mil a year (i think around there) he is also one of the guys who wanted to bring back clemens at 30 million.

Yeah, bringing back Pettitte was a shitty move.

[Kevin]

You just named teams that had very good pitching, but also excellent and timely hitting over and over again. Pitching alone isn't going to get it done.


What do remember from all those titles.. Pitching Wsox had ridiculos pitching.. Cards lineup was not great.. Even this sox besides Manny and Ortiz who even they didnt their typical great years, are gunna win.. And its because their pitching is pretty good..

[Kevin]

Yeah, but you also don't wanna make the Knicks mistake and get rid of your heroes too early.

Knicks had hero's?? WHEN?? And if they just let Ewing walk insted of making that awful deal, they wouldnt be in this mess..

[TheMojoPin]

What do remember from all those titles.. Pitching Wsox had ridiculos pitching.. Cards lineup was not great.. Even this sox besides Manny and Ortiz who even they didnt their typical great years, are gunna win.. And its because their pitching is pretty good..

The White Sox had an amazing offensive year when they won it, namely in that they hit an ungodly amount of home runs. The Red Sox lineup is easily the best out there in terms of how they approach the plate and take pitches.

[Doctor Z]

Does anybody know what Greg Nettles is up to these days?

[Kevin]

They are developing pitching. Whether A-Rod is still here or not is not going to change that. Ask any one of those pitchers if they'd like A-Rod in their lineup. The answer is obvious.

And how are they going to replace him? By signing someone for a lot of money or a trade. Or it's Wilson Betemit. It is not a good situation. This is not a positive move.

Who in freaking 90's had over 30hrs for our team?? Who cracked the top 5 in the mvp?? Remember the Texas linups?? The Redsox linups?? The O's?? Yet our team with NO ONE over 28hrs were kicking their asses every year.. In fact the one time a guy had a great year in that time span we didnt win.. That the 97 Tino year. Its time to do shit different. Hitters that are gritty that do not go out there and say, look at my numbers, i am great, all i have to do is throw my bat out there and i get hits. 1 or 2 decnet power guys is all it takes.. Look at the sox this year.. Manny Ortiz and THATS it.. Like i said.. i am not looking at next year.. I am looking at the future.. You can always get hitters.. Pitching is hard part..

[Kevin]

The White Sox had an amazing offensive year when they won it, namely in that they hit an ungodly amount of home runs. The Red Sox lineup is easily the best out there in terms of how they approach the plate and take pitches.

The wsox won that WS because their pitching was on fire.. They had like 2 3 games in a row where they didn't even use their pen... Exactly on the sox.. Thats what i want.. Their players fit the team.. And Manny and Ortiz anchors them.. Plus they are good guys who love to play the game and love to play each other.. That is what i want.. Not money hungry stat driven self centered douches.. I am sick and tired of that..

[Bulldogcakes]

I just don't get this fucking logic. Getting rid of the best player on the team isn't going magically turn this into the dynasty team. I don't see a Bernie Williams or a Paul O'Neill up there. Giambi, Abreu and Posada are all getting old. It would take a fucking miracle for Posada to replicate his numbers from this year. Cano and Melky are really the only players you can expect to get better. Everyone else is going down. As for Rowand, did you learn anything from the Damon signing?

As far as I'm concerned this just made it much more likely one of the 3 young pitchers is gonna get traded. As of now that lineup is VERY unbalanced. They are going to get absolutely raped by lefties.

If you looked at my lineup, 5 are lefties and the other 4 are either righties or switch hitters. Thats a team that will "get raped"?

Giambi is getting old, but his best asset is his batting eye. Abreu is 33, Posada is coming off a career year and they have finally found a suitable backup in Molina to take the pressure off him. Most of baseball wished they had the Yankee "problems".

BTW-Do yourself a favor and look at the rosters (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1996.shtml) of those championship teams. According to YOUR logic they couldn't possibly have been better than the team we just saw lose in the first round of the playoffs for the past 3 years, and had the biggest collapse in history the year before. Those championship teams were also not 50 mil ahead of everyone else (more like 10), and if I remember correctly the 98 team was #2 in payroll behind the Orioles.

[TheMojoPin]

Signing Bonds as a DH would help. A LOT.

[Bulldogcakes]

Who in freaking 90's had over 30hrs for our team?? Who cracked the top 5 in the mvp?? Remember the Texas linups?? The Redsox linups?? The O's?? Yet our team with NO ONE over 28hrs were kicking their asses every year.. In fact the one time a guy had a great year in that time span we didnt win.. That the 97 Tino year. Its time to do shit different.


Bingo.

The recent Yankee teams have been bully offensive teams. They beat the piss out of KC and can't win a one run game against good pitchers. In the playoffs, you face a lot of good pitchers. Thats a big reason why they've lost.
They have BECOME the teams they used to beat (late 90's Texas/CLE/Bosox) Murderers row lineups with suspect pitching staffs. Time to change the formula.