New York Mets Offseason WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[chubbyknuckles]

LoDuca headed to The Blow Jo. .. I mean Blue Jays. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071205.WBbaseball20071205182909/WBStory/WBbaseball/)

Is it legal to date 16 year olds up there?

He will literally drown in the tit bars up there! and the chicks are unbelievable

[cougarjake13]

He will literally drown in the tit bars up there! and the chicks are unbelievable

cant believe how far his stock has fallen

[Bulldogcakes]

He will literally drown in the tit bars up there! and the chicks are unbelievable

I don't believe you sir. I DEMAND TO SEE PROOF of these wild allegations you make!

[cougarjake13]

mets pick up a pair of pitchers in the rule 5 draft (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071206&content_id=2319841&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)



no suspension for schoenweiss (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071207&content_id=2321154&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)

this off season is starting off better than last year, mota got a 50 game suspension, none for schoenweiss

[Kevin]

mets pick up a pair of pitchers in the rule 5 draft (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071206&content_id=2319841&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)



no suspension for schoenweiss (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071207&content_id=2321154&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)

this off season is starting off better than last year, mota got a 50 game suspension, none for schoenweiss

I disagree.. The way he pitched last year, i think a 50 game suspension would be a good thing..

[Doctor Z]

Looks like the Mets' shot at Dontrelle is done. The Tigers announced today that they have no desire or need to trade him.

[Kevin]

I am waiting for Omar to time travel into the 60's and say he has the players to trade for Kaufax and or Gibson...

[Bossanova]

Lo Duca signs with the Nationals.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3149188

[Snoogans]

just like the redskins, the nationals keeping taking players from the shitty nY team instead of the good one

[cougarjake13]

Lo Duca signs with the Nationals.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3149188

well i guess since they traded away schneider they needed a catcher

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Lo Duca signs with the Nationals.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3149188


he was at the Knick Game saying he would only sign with a contender

$$$ talks,. he is a whore

[Doogie]

he was at the Knick Game saying he would only sign with a contender

$$$ talks,. he is a whore

Can you blame him?? He is an aging catcher, but he is still a good one and has worth. Andnothing quite like throwing it right back at the Mets being in the same division and all.
Down with interleague play!!!!

[BoondockSaint]

Reyes will have 80 steals vs. the Nationals this year.

[Bossanova]

Reyes will have 80 steals vs. the Nationals this year.

If he fucking gets on base againts them

[BoondockSaint]

He will.

[cougarjake13]

If he fucking gets on base againts them

with that shitty pitching staff c'mon he'll have no problem

[Knowledged_one]

Looks like the Mets' shot at Dontrelle is done. The Tigers announced today that they have no desire or need to trade him.

Why would the Mets have interest in Dontrelle, hes not hispanic so he cant be Minaya' type

[chubbyknuckles]

What happened exactly with the mets and the Bedard trade, that has the orioles talking with the Reds about signing him? The Fucking REDS!?

[TheMojoPin]

What happened exactly with the mets and the Bedard trade, that has the orioles talking with the Reds about signing him? The Fucking REDS!?

Dusty Baker desires more young pitching arms to suck the life from.

[Kevin]

Dusty Baker desires more young pitching arms to suck the life from.

You think Bedard is at the Angelo Estate everyday with a gun to his head and saying... You trade me to Baker, and i will pull this trigger..


And The Reds have MUCH better prospects then the Mets.. Thats why..

[BeerBandit]

What happened exactly with the mets and the Bedard trade, that has the orioles talking with the Reds about signing him? The Fucking REDS!?

Peter Angelos somehow thinks that a guy who went 12-18 over his first 3 seasons, then 15-11 and 13-5 over the last two years is worth more than 3 prospects.

Overrated!

[NickyL0885]

Apparently, the Mets could have landed Santana if they were willing to part with both Gomez and Martinez, along with Pelfrey, Humber and Hielmann. DAMN IT OMAR!!!!

[BeerBandit]

Apparently, the Mets could have landed Santana if they were willing to part with both Gomez and Martinez, along with Pelfrey, Humber and Hielmann. DAMN IT OMAR!!!!

That's ridiculous! 5 guys for 1? Too much. That's every single prospect the Mets have (minus Carp and Mulvey, but they're stretches at this point). If you're willing to part with all five of those guys, trade 3 for Haren and 2 for Lincecum. Fuck the Twins! Spend some money ya cheap bastards and hold on to this guy so the Yankees don't get him.

[chubbyknuckles]

Peter Angelos somehow thinks that a guy who went 12-18 over his first 3 seasons, then 15-11 and 13-5 over the last two years is worth more than 3 prospects.

Overrated!

ALL those seasons were with the orioles, doesn't that count for something? And you want a pitcher to get better over time? And while the guys is relatively unproven, he is on a shit team, and to put up the numbers he did with the f'n orioles is pretty impressive. Yeah he's 28, but thats relatively young, and his k's have gone up each year, while lowering his whip to, as of last year 1.08,even when he lost 11 games two seasons ago he had a 3.86 era. he's a good pitcher, i'd def take him, sadly as a yank fan, that won't happen. Unless we can get him from the Reds, oooooh! And over 3 prospects is a bit much, but i'd def see more upside in a guy like Bedard , than alotta pitchers out there and would try to get him.

[cougarjake13]

That's ridiculous! 5 guys for 1? Too much. That's every single prospect the Mets have (minus Carp and Mulvey, but they're stretches at this point). If you're willing to part with all five of those guys, trade 3 for Haren and 2 for Lincecum. Fuck the Twins! Spend some money ya cheap bastards and hold on to this guy so the Yankees don't get him.

yeh no way i give up all that

[Kevin]

Peter Angelos somehow thinks that a guy who went 12-18 over his first 3 seasons, then 15-11 and 13-5 over the last two years is worth more than 3 prospects.

Overrated!

Your saying Bedard is overrated?? Are you high?? Bedard held his own in the toughest division in the leauge... He would DESTROY! The NL.

[BoondockSaint]

Your saying Bedard is overrated?? Are you high?? Bedard held his own in the toughest division in the leauge... He would DESTROY! The NL.

Bedard is overrated.

[cougarjake13]

Your saying Bedard is overrated?? Are you high?? Bedard held his own in the toughest division in the leauge... He would DESTROY! The NL.

Bedard is overrated.

he's prob somewhere in between


but he would dominate in the nl east

[Kevin]

3.16 era... 227-57 K/BB ratio... 212 avg against... In the AL.. And AL East.. is pretty damn impressive to me..

[Bossanova]

I like Bedard

[cougarjake13]

I like Bedard

i would love it if the mets got him

[BeerBandit]

3.16 era... 227-57 K/BB ratio... 212 avg against... In the AL.. And AL East.. is pretty damn impressive to me..

I'm not saying he couldn't be good, but he certainly doesn't command more than 3 prospects. They're making this guy out to be right behind Santana and Halladay, and he's not. Perhaps we'll see it this year, but at 28 he doesn't have the body of work to get this much respect.

[Bossanova]

Mets let Estrada walk, never offer him a contract for next year. Looks like they were really desperate to unload Mota's contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152901

[cougarjake13]

Mets let Estrada walk, never offer him a contract for next year. Looks like they were really desperate to unload Mota's contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152901

then why not get some younger guys or draft picks

something useful

[Bossanova]

then why not get some younger guys or draft picks

something useful

Yeah, I havent gotten much Omar has done lately

[cougarjake13]

Yeah, I havent gotten much Omar has done lately

he's slowly isiahing himself

[Bossanova]

he's slowly isiahing himself

He really is. I am almost sick of him.


LoDuca said one of the other big reasons he stayed in the NL East. He got to play the Mets 18 times a year. They really must have hated him

[Snoogans]

he's slowly isiahing himself

if thats true, man you guys will be in hell when he gets to the part about spending hundreds of millions of dollars on "stars and assets" to finish in last

[BoondockSaint]

Wait, so we got rid of Mota and his $3mil salary for nothing and it's a bad thing?

[Bossanova]

Wait, so we got rid of Mota and his $3mil salary for nothing and it's a bad thing?

I first thought that, but why not get prospect or something they could use, if they knew they were going after another catcher

[BoondockSaint]

I first thought that, but why not get prospect or something they could use, if they knew they were going after another catcher

Maybe they didn't know they were getting another catcher at the time and who is going to give you anything for Mota? They traded their headache for someone else's.

[Bossanova]

Maybe they didn't know they were getting another catcher at the time and who is going to give you anything for Mota? They traded their headache for someone else's.

I guess. I still hate what Omar is doing

[K.C.]

Maybe they didn't know they were getting another catcher at the time and who is going to give you anything for Mota? They traded their headache for someone else's.

To be fair, I saw articles immediately after the Estrada trade saying that the Mets may let him walk and that it may have just been a straight dump of Mota.

So there's a decent chance they had that impression all along.

I agree, though...who the hell would give up anything of value for Mota.

[cougarjake13]

To be fair, I saw articles immediately after the Estrada trade saying that the Mets may let him walk and that it may have just been a straight dump of Mota.

So there's a decent chance they had that impression all along.

I agree, though...who the hell would give up anything of value for Mota.

so then why not just let mota go why even bother going through a trade

[BoondockSaint]

so then why not just let mota go why even bother going through a trade

Because they would still have to pay him $3mil. The way they did it they got rid of him for $0.

[cougarjake13]

Because they would still have to pay him $3mil. The way they did it they got rid of him for $0.

so why the fuck would milwaukee do that for us

how much was estrada ???

[BoondockSaint]

so why the fuck would milwaukee do that for us

how much was estrada ???

They are taking a shot that Mota might return to form. Their fans don't hate him yet. Estrada cost nothing. He had no contract for next year. He was arbitration eligible and the Mets didn't offer it to him so he becomes a free agent.

[cougarjake13]

They are taking a shot that Mota might return to form. Their fans don't hate him yet. Estrada cost nothing. He had no contract for next year. He was arbitration eligible and the Mets didn't offer it to him so he becomes a free agent.

wow

you'd think selig wouldnt let his team get fucked like that

[BoondockSaint]

wow

you'd think selig wouldnt let his team get fucked like that


How did they get fucked? They wanted Mota. They were probably going to let Estrada go, so instead they trade him and get a guy back that they wanted.

[Bossanova]

It basically came down to two teams unloading guys they couldn't stand

[K.C.]

How did they get fucked? They wanted Mota.

That's how they got screwed.

It made sense from the Mets point of view...sort of...at worst, you dump Mota's salary and keep Estrada if you don't find another catching option.

They did find another catching option, so they dumped Mota for nothing. Not bad

Now...if the tandem of Estrada and Lastings Milledge out performs Schneider and Church this season, there will be, and rightfully so, some pissed off fans asking what the hell Minaya was thinking.

[spadanko]

Mets sign Matt Wise... very nice little signing there. I think he will make an impact on the bullpen

[cougarjake13]

Mets sign Matt Wise... very nice little signing there. I think he will make an impact on the bullpen

dont know much but anything that improves our bullpen is a good thing

[cougarjake13]

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/images/2007/12/20/tPw3XVQt.jpg



mighty fine looking wife he has there

[Bulldogcakes]

Flicker page with pics of Citi Field (http://flickr.com/search/?q=citifield&s=rec)

I pass it every morning on my way to work, and every week a little more is finished. It's really coming along, and looks absolutely great. A real, old fashioned ballpark (as opposed to a multi use stadium). I like it more than the new Yankee stadium. A little smaller, but that means every seat will be pretty good and the way they've set up the stands the fans will feel like they're right on top of the field. Love the brick facade and arched entrances. Just beautiful. These pics don't even do it justice.

[cougarjake13]

Flicker page with pics of Citi Field (http://flickr.com/search/?q=citifield&s=rec)

I pass it every morning on my way to work, and every week a little more is finished. It's really coming along, and looks absolutely great. A real, old fashioned ballpark (as opposed to a multi use stadium). I like it more than the new Yankee stadium. A little smaller, but that means every seat will be pretty good and the way they've set up the stands the fans will feel like they're right on top of the field. Love the brick facade and arched entrances. Just beautiful. These pics don't even do it justice.


looks cool and i am already planning to make the trip up for opening day 2009

[Snoogans]

the mets coulda started playin on just some field on Randall's Island and it woulda been nicer then Shea. It shouldnt be hard to have citifield be impressive

[cougarjake13]

Mets deal two Minor Leaguers for Pagan (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080105&content_id=2339938&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)

[BoondockSaint]

Wilpon has given Omar the OK to get Santana: (http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/?p=458)

Last month, I wrote that the New York Mets were not to be taken seriously in the Johan Santana sweepstakes. A person with knowledge of the negotiations told me that Mets owner Fred Wilpon was against the idea of signing any pitcher to the kind of contract extension Santana is seeking.

A turning point came when Wilpon gave the green light to GM Omar Minaya. If Minaya swings the trade, as I wrote about today, Wilpon is confident he’ll get Santana signed. In the Mets’ camp, there is a belief that the price for Santana won’t be quite as high as advertised. Santana might ask for a six-year, $150 million extension, but there’s a belief teams could negotiate down from there.

[hammersavage]

this is all a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggg tease

[BeerBandit]

From Fred Coupon to Fred Game-On!Do it Omar!

[Chip196]

Go for it!!!!!!

[cougarjake13]

i'd love to get him but it depends on who we give up

not that i can think of any one in the farm system i care about losing

[NickyL0885]

i'd love to get him but it depends on who we give up

not that i can think of any one in the farm system i care about losing

Cerrone says Martinez, Gomez, Mulvey, Humber and Guerra is the deal the twins want an the Mets get Johan. hmmm wow. think back. the mets had 3 untouchable outfield prospects a few yrs ago. now, they may not have them at all, since they would all be gone. Lastings went to Washington and Gomez and F-Mart would be in Minnesota. o well. We got 3 first round picks in the draft. Outfield prospects are easier to come by them pitching prospects. and the mets arent going to draft by the slotting system anymore, which is good. players that are first rounders slip way down due to contract demands.

[cougarjake13]

Cerrone says Martinez, Gomez, Mulvey, Humber and Guerra is the deal the twins want an the Mets get Johan. hmmm wow. think back. the mets had 3 untouchable outfield prospects a few yrs ago. now, they may not have them at all, since they would all be gone. Lastings went to Washington and Gomez and F-Mart would be in Minnesota. o well. We got 3 first round picks in the draft. Outfield prospects are easier to come by them pitching prospects. and the mets arent going to draft by the slotting system anymore, which is good. players that are first rounders slip way down due to contract demands.

i still say thats too much for one guy

[Doogie]

i still say thats too much for one guy

I agree. Remember the last time they up that many guys for one pitcher from Minnesota?? Swing a deal but dont sell your future away either.

[Bulldogcakes]

i still say thats too much for one guy

It is a lot. That would wipe out your farm of 5 of the top 7 guys. But no contender needs a number 1 more than the Mets do right now. Plus, then you get the privilege of giving him a gazillion $$ contract. Tough call. That would be the last big deal you guys would make for a few years while you rebuild your farm system. But next years free agent crop is good, so that may not matter much.

From a Yankee fans point of view, if he's going somewhere I hope its to you guys. I don't want to give up Hughes and likely can't get Santana w/o him in the deal. Plus I don't want him to go to the Bosox. If you get him it solves 2 problems for me.

[Grendel_Kahn]

There is no reason for the Mets NOT to do this. Like Mike Francesa says " if all it costs you is money" then so be it. Let us not forget that prospects are just that. Prospects. Millidge was untouchable a few years ago when the Red Sox wanted him in a straight up 1 for 1 deal to get Manny , and NY didn't pull the trigger. How's that workin out? Yes you run the risk of another Scott Kazmir situation, but that's the risk you take to be a winner. As stated above NO contender needs a big time stud like the Mets.

[Bulldogcakes]

I spoke to a few Mets fans about this today and they were saying they didn't want to do it, which surprised me. They were thinking the exact same thing I was when the Yank deal included Hughes, saying "Its too steep, why give up all this when you can just sign him next year".

The Mets are kind of bidding against themselves right now. According to all reports, the Yanks and Bosox are out. And both teams would quietly love to see the Mets get him, if for no other reason they would keep Santana away from each other and not have to spend all the $$ to sign him.

[BoondockSaint]

You may never get the chance to sign him next year. And this won't be a Kazmir situation because your trading for one of the best pitchers in baseball in his prime, not Victor Zambrano.

[Bulldogcakes]

You may never get the chance to sign him next year. And this won't be a Kazmir situation because your trading for one of the best pitchers in baseball in his prime, not Victor Zambrano.

That was my take, too. He makes more sense for the Mets than the Yanks. The Yanks think Hughes could be a top of the rotation guy, the best prospects in the Met package are the two OFers, and you can always find OFers if you need one as free agents. Ace pitchers are extremely hard to come by. Plus once he goes free agent, anyone could grab him. Its a truckload of talent for one year of Santana and the right to sign him, but you'd have to think long and hard about it.

[BoondockSaint]

That was my take, too. He makes more sense for the Mets than the Yanks. The Yanks think Hughes could be a top of the rotation guy, the best prospects in the Met package are the two OFers, and you can always find OFers if you need one as free agents. Ace pitchers are extremely hard to come by. Plus once he goes free agent, anyone could grab him. Its a truckload of talent for one year of Santana and the right to sign him, but you'd have to think long and hard about it.


Obviously you will have to sign him before the trade is complete.

[Kevin]

Obviously you will have to sign him before the trade is complete.

Or else he will leave because he likes the Bronx School system instead of Queens..

[Bulldogcakes]

Obviously you will have to sign him before the trade is complete.

Right, one year and the right to sign him. Haren was signed for 3 years at a cheap rate, thats why he fetched so much (5 prospects). One year of Santana should be less than that. But it also depends on how the Twins value the Met prospects, and who else is bidding. Right now it seems like the Mets are the only game in town.

[Kevin]

My garbage man just said your getting Santana.. CONGRATS!

[cougarjake13]

I agree. Remember the last time they up that many guys for one pitcher from Minnesota?? Swing a deal but dont sell your future away either.

frank viola was horrible, i think he had one decent to good season

July 31, 1989: Traded by the Minnesota Twins to the New York Mets for a player to be named later, Rick Aguilera, David West, Kevin Tapani, and Tim Drummond. The New York Mets sent Jack Savage (October 16, 1989) to the Minnesota Twins to complete the trade.

aguilera was the only real loss in that trade

[EddieMoscone]

frank viola was horrible, i think he had one decent to good season

July 31, 1989: Traded by the Minnesota Twins to the New York Mets for a player to be named later, Rick Aguilera, David West, Kevin Tapani, and Tim Drummond. The New York Mets sent Jack Savage (October 16, 1989) to the Minnesota Twins to complete the trade.

aguilera was the only real loss in that trade

Kevin Tapani actually had a few good years with the Twins. More good years with the Twins than Viola had with the Mets. He won 16 game in 91 and 92 with the Twins and 19 games for the Cubs in 98.

[cougarjake13]

Kevin Tapani actually had a few good years with the Twins. More good years with the Twins than Viola had with the Mets. He won 16 game in 91 and 92 with the Twins and 19 games for the Cubs in 98.

yeh i thought about that but was too lazy to edit it

[BoondockSaint]

From Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald:

The Mets, and not the Red Sox or Yankees, remain the front-runner as the team most likely to succeed in pulling off a trade for Minnesota ace Johan Santana, according to baseball insiders in touch with both the Mets and Twins in recent days.

A package the Twins could receive will probably not include both of the Mets’ top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. There are indications that Martinez would be in the deal, along with major league outfielder Ryan Church and at least two other prospects. Starter Mike Pelfrey could be part of the deal as well. . . .

Oh no, not Ryan Church. What would we do without him?

[Knowledged_one]

From Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald:



Oh no, not Ryan Church. What would we do without him?

Still have Lastings Milledge?

[Doogie]

frank viola was horrible, i think he had one decent to good season

July 31, 1989: Traded by the Minnesota Twins to the New York Mets for a player to be named later, Rick Aguilera, David West, Kevin Tapani, and Tim Drummond. The New York Mets sent Jack Savage (October 16, 1989) to the Minnesota Twins to complete the trade.

aguilera was the only real loss in that trade

Like everyone else said, they gave up some talent for a guy that did NOTHING for them.

Stat by stat each player so you all can be the judge:

David West (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=westda01)

Kevin Tapani (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=tapanke01)

Rick Aguilera (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=aguilri01)

Tim Drummond (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=drummti01)

Jack Savage (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=savagja01)

I agree with the last two guys...they went no where. But the other three were a loss for the pitching light early 90's Mets

[cougarjake13]

Still have Lastings Milledge?

no he is in washington

[cougarjake13]

Report: Mets closing in on Livan Hernandez
Rubber-armed free agent could help New York's rotation (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080125&content_id=2355342&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)

[cougarjake13]

Rincon lands Minor League contract
Reliever gets Spring Training invite, looks to return to Majors (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080123&content_id=2354018&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym)

[Bulldogcakes]

REPORT: SANTANA TRADE IMMINENT; METS HAVE EDGE (http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/sports/mets/report__santana_trade_imminent__mets_hav_148674.ht m)

The end could finally be near in the Johan Santana sweepstakes.

And the winner is . . . according to a report yesterday in the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the answer likely will be revealed within the next 10 days, before pitchers and catchers report to spring training.

Of the three main contenders for the ace left-hander, the Mets have emerged as the front-runner mostly based on their open willingness to deal top prospects to the Twins, but the Yankees and Red Sox still lurk in the shadows


The Twins just signed Morneau and Cuddyer (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/01/twins-lock-up-c.html)to big $$ extensions. Many take that as a clear signal that he's going to be dealt. I think both Cashman and Theo will do handstands if the Mets get him.

[cougarjake13]

REPORT: SANTANA TRADE IMMINENT; METS HAVE EDGE (http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/sports/mets/report__santana_trade_imminent__mets_hav_148674.ht m)



The Twins just signed Morneau and Cuddyer (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/01/twins-lock-up-c.html)to big $$ extensions. Many take that as a clear signal that he's going to be dealt. I think both Cashman and Theo will do handstands if the Mets get him.


i would love to have him but not at the expense of all or most of our young talent

[Bossanova]

You know, I have been against trading everyone. I now say fuck it, just get this deal done. They need him more than MLC needs attention. Santana makes them instant ciontenders, where we have seen almost every prospect with the exception of Wright and Reyes fail. You can't hopw guys are great and waste time if you can get Santana. Remember how we all wanted to keep Milledge because he was the second coming. What happened? We traded him for Church and Schneider. The mEts passed on many a player for his budding star.

Just fucking do the deal and live with it. I am not sitting through a staff of number 3's again this year

[Kevin]

You know, I have been against trading everyone. I now say fuck it, just get this deal done. They need him more than MLC needs attention. Santana makes them instant ciontenders, where we have seen almost every prospect with the exception of Wright and Reyes fail. You can't hopw guys are great and waste time if you can get Santana. Remember how we all wanted to keep Milledge because he was the second coming. What happened? We traded him for Church and Schneider. The mEts passed on many a player for his budding star.

Just fucking do the deal and live with it. I am not sitting through a staff of number 3's again this year

SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSHOLE!!!!

































Sorry.. i thought this was still last night..

[Bossanova]

SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSHOLE!!!!

































Sorry.. i thought this was still last night..

hahahaha

[BoondockSaint]

Go get him. You can always get outfielders but it's damn near impossible to get an ace.

[Bulldogcakes]

Go get him. You can always get outfielders but it's damn near impossible to get an ace.

That's my take. There are 2-3 good OFers available every year. Aces are tough to find, and the Mets need one bad. As it is, they're counting on El Duque (which you cant do) and they don't really know who their 5th starter is yet. They need him the most.

[Basedow]

could be for another reason, but carlos gomez isn't going to be playing winter ball for the next few days (http://mvn.com/mlb-source/2008/01/29/santana-speculation-gomez-pulled-from-winter-ball/). Gels with yesterday's report in the NYP of imminent trade with the Mets as the likely partner.

also worth noting that the twins could hold off until bedard deal is complete and use that package as a standard for any santana deal:

Bill Madden Article (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/01/29/2008-01-29_erik_bedard_rumors_could_impact_mets_tra.html?r ef=rss)

[oh_kee_pa]

metsblog.com and usa today reporting the mets have landed Santana...
they have a 48-72 hour window to negotiate a contract extention

[BoondockSaint]

metsblog.com and usa today reporting the mets have landed Santana...
they have a 48-72 hour window to negotiate a contract extention

link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm)

FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!

[EddieMoscone]

Oh joyous day!

[Marc with a c]

Buster olney is reporting it on 1050 as well. Fuck this shit for getting me excited if this falls through.

[BoondockSaint]

Without even giving up the best prospect. Good job Omar.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

this is great

Im not counting my chickens though

[spadanko]

FUCKING YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

[K.C.]

So when they miss the playoffs again this year...is it Omar who gets canned for thinking this solves all the Mets' problems...or is it Willie who gets canned for losing with Santana and Martinez in the same rotation?

P.S. - Hamels/Myers will still be a better combo.

:bye:

[Basedow]

20+ million a season too, since the mets apparently will only go five years on extension. maybe mets fans can stop booing david wright at knicks games now.

[Marc with a c]

I guess it's about that time for KC, the only person on ronfez.net who really bugs me, to start bugging me again. It really was a nice couple months not having to deal with him giving up on his team then talking trash on how much they dominate.

[K.C.]

I guess it's about that time for KC, the only person on ronfez.net who really bugs me, to start bugging me again. It really was a nice couple months not having to deal with him giving up on his team then talking trash on how much they dominate.

Mean









http://dungyhadtheunder.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/t1_rollins.jpg

Still the team to beat

[HBox]

Thank god he went to the Mets. THANK GOD.

[Earlshog]

I guess it's about that time for KC, the only person on ronfez.net who really bugs me, to start bugging me again. It really was a nice couple months not having to deal with him giving up on his team then talking trash on how much they dominate.

Obviously I have to make a point to be more obnoxious next year...

you got Santana big deal, the Phils got Geoff Jenkins and Pedro Felice!!!!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Obviously I have to make a point to be more obnoxious next year...

you got Santana big deal, the Phils got Geoff Jenkins and Pedro Felice!!!!

Feliz, you guys cant even get his name right

no miracle for you this year, pray for the Wild Card


uggh Baseball talk, we still have football left

[Earlshog]

Feliz, you guys cant even get his name right

no miracle for you this year, pray for the Wild Card


uggh Baseball talk, we still have football left


The Phils have a better lineup... Rotatioins are about equal... Should be an interesting season...

[tbagnu]

The Phils have a better lineup... Rotatioins are about equal... Should be an interesting season...

Amen!!...it's a shame they may be spending all that money to wind up in second once again!!...go phils!!!

[oh_kee_pa]

The Phils have a better lineup... Rotatioins are about equal... Should be an interesting season...

rotations equal?
hmmmm... i really have to disagree...
we have the best pitcher in baseball...

[tbagnu]

rotations equal?
hmmmm... i really have to disagree...
we have the best pitcher in baseball...

hamels can and will be as good if not better than santana..so there is a wash...remember our kid has only been in the majors for a couple of years..i think the rest of the rotation is more than even..the phils might even have the edge!! and as far as the bullpens go, you have the cancer named wagner!!

[sailor]

what did this cost the mets?

how long till he needs tommy john surgery?

[K.C.]

what did this cost the mets?

how long till he needs tommy john surgery?

And that's the point. You'd have to be an absolute maniac to say that Santana doesn't make the Mets a better team immediately.

But he doesn't make them the team to beat in the NL, or the NL East. And $125 million dollars and four prospect later, there's still the fact that they've exported two good young OFs (Gomez and Milledge) this offseason and replaced them with Alou and Church. And that they actually found a worse starting catcher than Paul Lo Duca. And that they better hope Billy Wagner's issues last season were 'just a thing' and not a sign of his fading dependability. And the fact that with Gomez gone, they have no bench now.

Congratulations...they solved their rotation issues until Pedro or El Duque goes down. Who knows, maybe they'll throw the whole season...all of them. If they do, then yes I will concede that the Mets have a very good shot of winning the division. But I wouldn't count on it.

And now they have no payroll flexibility, and one good prospect (albeit a good one) left to trade to fill any holes that arise, they're screwed if issues arise (and they do for almost every team) during the season.

[spadanko]

they have payroll flexibility when Pedro, delgado, Alou, and el duque all come off the books next season. The Mets have money. That is something they have no need to worry about.. the farm system is a differnet story, but Omar can jsut raid the international FA market

[spadanko]

hamels can and will be as good if not better than santana..so there is a wash...remember our kid has only been in the majors for a couple of years..i think the rest of the rotation is more than even..the phils might even have the edge!! and as far as the bullpens go, you have the cancer named wagner!!

Hamels is an excellent pitcher, but he is not Johan santana.. i am sorry. And hamels injury history is nothing to write home about

[spadanko]

20+ million a season too, since the mets apparently will only go five years on extension. maybe mets fans can stop booing david wright at knicks games now.

I am sure those were more Yankee fans...

[K.C.]

they have payroll flexibility when Pedro, delgado, Alou, and el duque all come off the books next season. The Mets have money. That is something they have no need to worry about.. the farm system is a differnet story, but Omar can jsut raid the international FA market


Next season is next season. I'm talking about this season.

When you chop Pedro, Delgado, Wagner, etc. from the books, then you've got more than enough money to throw around.

But this is most likely the last signing for the Mets before Spring. And they still have a lot of holes they didn't address, and very little depth.

I'm trying to be totally fair about it...if the Mets go through the season injury-free, then yes, they have to be the favorites.

But if guys get banged up...some of the older guys who seemed questionable last year continue to get worse...what do they have left to go out and fill those holes this season?

[K.C.]

Hamels is an excellent pitcher, but he is not Johan santana.. i am sorry. And hamels injury history is nothing to write home about


Agreed...but Hamels/Myers is potentially better than Johan/????

That's the difference...now the Mets do have a better back-end on paper. Perez/Maine/El Duque seems a bit more dependable than Kendrick/Moyer/Durbin.

The Phils probably need one more back-end guy. But they have some flexibility in terms of payroll and prospects to get a guy during the season if it doesn't work out.

[BoondockSaint]

Next season is next season. I'm talking about this season.

When you chop Pedro, Delgado, Wagner, etc. from the books, then you've got more than enough money to throw around.

But this is most likely the last signing for the Mets before Spring. And they still have a lot of holes they didn't address, and very little depth.

I'm trying to be totally fair about it...if the Mets go through the season injury-free, then yes, they have to be the favorites.

But if guys get banged up...some of the older guys who seemed questionable last year continue to get worse...what do they have left to go out and fill those holes this season?


Even if this would stop them from spending much more what other big ticket item would they possibly get anyway?

[spadanko]

Can't argue with that. they have a nice bench, but their bench doesn't have palyers I think that can fill an everyday roll in an emergency (maybe Endy)

It should be an interesting season.

Gotaa say KC I wanna be mad at you, but that was a good post ... can't wait for spring training

[oh_kee_pa]

wait.a.second.

K.C..... a philly's fan, with Brad Lidge as there closer is questioning Billy Wagner and his ability to close games? Dude... that park is going to eat Lidge alive!

Second...
Santana> Hamels
Pedro>Myers
Maine> Kendrick
Perez>Eaton
El Duque> Moyer
and unfortunately you can't argue those decisions..

you have the best offense in the league... granted... but, please, be honest about your assessment before you claim things

[Basedow]

I am sure those were more Yankee fans...

not a snowballs chance in hell. those were some mets fans.

[Basedow]

wait.a.second.

K.C..... a philly's fan, with Brad Lidge as there closer is questioning Billy Wagner and his ability to close games? Dude... that park is going to eat Lidge alive!

Second...
Santana> Hamels
Pedro>Myers
Maine> Kendrick
Perez>Eaton
El Duque> Moyer
and unfortunately you can't argue those decisions..

you have the best offense in the league... granted... but, please, be honest about your assessment before you claim things

im not sure pedro will be better than myers this season. id count on myers getting closer to 200 innings this season, despite his DL stint, and could have comparable numbers in whip and era.

[spadanko]

not a snowballs chance in hell. those were some mets fans.


eh... i kinda feel like david can do no wrong really.. kid never gets booed...

[Kevin]

rotations equal?
hmmmm... i really have to disagree...
we have the best pitcher in baseball...

As much as it pains me to say it.. The best pitcher in baseball pitches for Bos.. His name is Josh Beckett..

[Marc with a c]

he hasn't signed yet

[epo]

As much as it pains me to say it.. The best pitcher in baseball pitches for Bos.. His name is Josh Beckett..

You might be half-retarded.

[Gvac]

You might be half-retarded.

Only half?

[Bossanova]

Kevin is a cunt who knows nothing

[epo]

Kevin is a cunt who knows nothing

I thought it was less than that.

[Marc with a c]

Only half?

the good half

[epo]

the good half

It's the medal winning half.

[hammersavage]

Anyone who doesn't think that Johan Santana is the best pitcher in baseball does not know anything about baseball.

He is the pitcher of his generation.

[Bossanova]

Kevin is a faggot

[K.C.]

wait.a.second.

K.C..... a philly's fan, with Brad Lidge as there closer is questioning Billy Wagner and his ability to close games? Dude... that park is going to eat Lidge alive!

Second...
Santana> Hamels
Pedro>Myers
Maine> Kendrick
Perez>Eaton
El Duque> Moyer
and unfortunately you can't argue those decisions..

you have the best offense in the league... granted... but, please, be honest about your assessment before you claim things


Sure I can

Santana > Hamels
Myers > Pedro (32 starts vs. oh, I'll say about 8)


And the other three are anyone's guess.

If Kendrick pitches as well, or even better (he was only a rook), then last season, he could absolutely be better than Maine. Durbin (not Eaton) is pretty untested as a starter. although he did post excellent numbers (if you go back and break down his starts...not his bullpen work) for Detroit last year.

And honestly, you know what you get with Moyer. He'll start every game, and keep you in it. El Duque is erratic and injury prone. The occasional gems he throws don't necessarily make up for it.


And far be it for me to espouse Lidge as a lock to be a dependable closer, considering some past trangressions, but in terms of comparing him with Wagner....I'd definitely take Lidge.

[Kevin]

Kevin is a faggot

This from a man who got dumped by his gay lover for a turban.. Not another man.. But a turban.. Gvac thought that a turban was more compitant in bed than you were.

And i stand by My statement.. I would rather have beckett.

[Kevin]

Oh and Epo.. I think Favre just threw another interception:bye:

[Bossanova]

This from a man who got dumped by his gay lover for a turban.. Not another man.. But a turban.. Gvac thought that a turban was more compitant in bed than you were.

And i stand by My statement.. I would rather have beckett.

I repeat you are a know nothing cunt rag. Yankees suckl, Giants are garbeage and Armenians are fags. Love you

[Kevin]

I repeat you are a know nothing cunt rag. Yankees suckl, Giants are garbeage and Armenians are fags. Love you

A TURBAN!!!

I guess being 5'4 isnt the only small thing about you!

[HBox]

This from a man who got dumped by his gay lover for a turban.. Not another man.. But a turban.. Gvac thought that a turban was more compitant in bed than you were.

And i stand by My statement.. I would rather have beckett.

I hope you never run a team. No fanbase deserves that. Not even Boston.

[epo]

Oh and Epo.. I think Favre just threw another interception:bye:

Yea....Eli Manning is awesome:

http://profootballtalk.com/eli.jpg

[K.C.]

And let's not get crazy about Johan being the 'pitcher of his generation.'

2007 Totals:

Johan Santana: 219 IP, 15-13, 3.33 ERA, 183 H, 33 HR, 235 K, 52 BB, 1.07 WHIP

Cole Hamels: 183.1 IP, 15-5, 3.39 ERA, 163 H, 25 HR, 177 K, 43 BB, 1.12 WHIP


Very comparable...it's not like they're adding Sandy Koufax. They're adding a guy they hope does for them what Hamels did for the Phillies last year.

...and at $25 million a year.

[Bossanova]

I hope you never run a team. No fanbase deserves that. Not even Boston.

BWAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA!!!!.

HBOX is my favorite poster of the night

[Kevin]

I hope you never run a team. No fanbase deserves that. Not even Boston.

There are some things that scared me about Santana last year... His loss in velocity the cheif among them... Now maybe he can come back to being the best in baseball, but right now, i would rather have Beckett.. ESPECIALLY in a big game.

[Bossanova]

And let's not get crazy about Johan being the 'pitcher of his generation.'

2007 Totals:

Johan Santana: 219 IP, 15-13, 3.33 ERA, 183 H, 33 HR, 235 K, 52 BB, 1.07 WHIP

Cole Hamels: 183.1 IP, 15-5, 3.39 ERA, 163 H, 25 HR, 177 K, 43 BB, 1.12 WHIP


Very comparable...it's not like they're adding Sandy Koufax. They're adding a guy they hope does for them what Hamels did for the Phillies last year.

...and at $25 million a year.



Please go back to your Philly thread and die with your first round team. There is no comparison to these two

[Bossanova]

There are some things that scared me about Santana last year... His loss in velocity the cheif among them... Now maybe he can come back to being the best in baseball, but right now, i would rather have Beckett.. ESPECIALLY in a big game.

He is going to kill in the NL, you are insane

[K.C.]

Please go back to your Philly thread and die with your first round team. There is no comparison to these two

Yeah, there isn't....Hamels is five years younger and has a lot less innings on his arm.

[Kevin]

He is going to kill in the NL, you are insane

Please, thats like saying you are a ladies man because you bang alot of fat chicks.. Not a a huge accomplishment..

[Marc with a c]

Yeah, there isn't....Hamels is five years younger and has a lot less innings on his arm.

and more time on the dl

[Bossanova]

So because the Mets have Santana now everyone hates him. You are all crazy to think he isnt going to be good.

[Bossanova]

Please, thats like saying you are a ladies man because you bang alot of fat chicks.. Not a a huge accomplishment..

You make no sense. Your team was after him and now that he is with the Mets you think he sucks? I don;t get it

[Gvac]

You're all mistaken.

The pitcher of this generation is none other than the mighty Aaron Harang.


http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/players/action/ph_421685.jpg

[Kevin]

So because the Mets have Santana now everyone hates him. You are all crazy to think he isnt going to be good.

Wait.. I never said he isn't.. this is a great move for the mets.. Good job by Omar taking advantage of a dummy GM who over played his hand... Once Bos took out Lester from the offer, i knew he was a Met.. Omar waited and was patient, good for him. Mets are definitely the team to beat in the NL.. And prob the only NL team with any shot of beating a AL team.

[ralphbxny]

who saw this coming

[Kevin]

You're all mistaken.

The pitcher of this generation is none other than the mighty Aaron Harang.


http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/players/action/ph_421685.jpg

Shush, we are talking about real baseball here.. Not AAAA.

[BoondockSaint]

The Mets got robbed.

[Marc with a c]

who saw this coming

apparently kevin has seen this coming for over a month, and decided not to say anything.

[Kevin]

apparently kevin has seen this coming for over a month, and decided not to say anything.

Ass Nazi.. Bos just took off Lester two days ago.

[Marc with a c]

Ass Nazi.. Bos just took off Lester two days ago.

it is spelled boz

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/SackAF32/bosmug.jpg

[Kevin]

it is spelled boz

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c349/SackAF32/bosmug.jpg

Leave it to you to find a gay football player..

[Bulldogcakes]

As much as it pains me to say it.. The best pitcher in baseball pitches for Bos.. His name is Josh Beckett..

The numbers say otherwise

Johan last 3 years
Overall ERA W L SV SVO G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Total 2.99 50 26 0 0 100 100 5 684.1 549 244 227 79 144 718 .217


Befckett's last 3 years
Overall ERA W L SV SVO G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Total 3.91 51 26 0 0 92 92 3 584.0 533 271 254 67 172 518 .242


Johan is the best pitcher in Baseball. He could put up even better #s pitching in Shea next year. He should age pretty well with that viscious changeup being his out pitch. He can afford to lose a few MPH off the fastball and he'd still be great. But he's 28, thats still (hopefully) a few years away. Plus the Mets gave up hardly anything in this deal. Its an absolute steal.



Congrats Mets fans! I didn't want to give up Hughes so I'm happy for you guys. You needed him more than the Yanks did.

[Kevin]

The numbers say otherwise

Johan last 3 years


Befckett's last 3 years


Johan is the best pitcher in Baseball. He could put up even better #s pitching in Shea next year. He should age pretty well with that viscious changeup being his out pitch. He can afford to lose a few MPH off the fastball and he'd still be great. But he's 28, thats still (hopefully) a few years away.




Congrats Mets fans! I didn't want to give up Hughes so I'm happy for you guys. You needed him more than the Yanks did.


Wait.. didn't you spend the bulk of December calling him overrated and trying to discredit him?

[Bulldogcakes]

The big loser in the Johan deal is Twins GM Bill Smith. You can't find a GM in baseball who would take what the Mets just gave up over the Hughes/Melky++ deal that was reported to be on the table. He completely fucked his franchise by dragging this out so long and making the Yanks take the deal off the table.

The Red Sox "offer" of Lester/Ellsbury plus Masterson and Lowrie was also far better, and this just proves it was never serious.

[Bulldogcakes]

Wait.. didn't you spend the bulk of December calling him overrated and trying to discredit him?

Nope. I always thought Johan would be great as a Yank. His #s are ridiculous in Yankee stadium. I just didn't want to give up Hughes in the deal.

Show me where I did and I'll explain what I meant if you misunderstood it.

[K.C.]

and more time on the dl

Nope.

Santana has spent 101 days on the DL in the majors in his career. (2001)

Hamels spent 27 last season.



And as far as his 'illustrious' minor league career went, Hamels had one legitimate baseball injury in 2004 in the minors (elbow)

'05 he broke his hand in a bar fight.

...I never said he was the smartest guy in the world.

[hammersavage]

And let's not get crazy about Johan being the 'pitcher of his generation.'

2007 Totals:

Johan Santana: 219 IP, 15-13, 3.33 ERA, 183 H, 33 HR, 235 K, 52 BB, 1.07 WHIP

Cole Hamels: 183.1 IP, 15-5, 3.39 ERA, 163 H, 25 HR, 177 K, 43 BB, 1.12 WHIP


Very comparable...it's not like they're adding Sandy Koufax. They're adding a guy they hope does for them what Hamels did for the Phillies last year.

...and at $25 million a year.

you take a down year for Santana vs. the best year in Hamels career and you still say its comparable but better for Santana.

If you don't think he is the best pitcher in baseball, you are a clueless baseball fan. I'm not saying he will be the greatest going forward, but he is the pitcher of his generation over the last 5-7 years.

[hammersavage]

Nope.

Santana has spent 101 days on the DL in the majors in his career. (2001)

Hamels spent 27 last season.



And as far as his 'illustrious' minor league career went, Hamels had one legitimate baseball injury in 2004 in the minors (elbow)

'05 he broke his hand in a bar fight.

...I never said he was the smartest guy in the world.

so he spent over a quarter of the time Santana spent on the DL just last year that took Santana 7 years.

and don't get me wrong buddy, i'm not calling you a clueless baseball fan. i just reread my last post and it might sound like that. I'm just saying that to anyone who doesn't think he's the best in baseball.

I love Hamels BUT his upside IS Santana. If Hamels is gonna be better, than he may be the best of all time. Let's see it for a few healthy years first.

[Snoogans]

Nope. I always thought Johan would be great as a Yank. His #s are ridiculous in Yankee stadium. I just didn't want to give up Hughes in the deal.

Show me where I did and I'll explain what I meant if you misunderstood it.

Wait. When the sox were gonna get Johan, they were BUYING EVERYONE. The yanks it woulda been ok, and the Mets, no problem, but GODDAMN if the Sox had gotten him. That just isn't right.

What a tool

[K.C.]

you take a down year for Santana vs. the best year in Hamels career and you still say its comparable but better for Santana.

If you don't think he is the best pitcher in baseball, you are a clueless baseball fan. I'm not saying he will be the greatest going forward, but he is the pitcher of his generation over the last 5-7 years.


No, I really do think Santana is one of the top two in baseball (I can see an argument for Beckett, but the full body of work isn't there yet).

But if he's the 'pitcher of his generation,' it's more because his generation is pretty mediocre.
And that's the point I'm trying to make.

Santana's fantastic. But let's not go crazy and act like him landing on the Mets is going to produce the equivalent of Bob Gibson in '68.

He's a notch above the aces in his division (Hamels, Smoltz). Not two or three.


Like I said...if everyone stays healthy, it's hard to bet against the Mets. I would just be worried about lack of depth and lack of flexibility in terms of acquiring depth for this season if I was a Mets fan given the age, and propensity for injuries on that team.

[NickyL0885]

Even with injuries, I feel Pelfrey can step in. The kid DEF has the tools. He did so much better in the second half, winning those games in September. But he's always had pressure to perform. But now, with more game under his belt, starting the yr in Triple A, I feel he will pan out. Rotation going into CitiField will prob be Johan, Pedro(i think theres an option. hes prob gonna be re-signed if he does good), John Main, Perez, and Pelfrey. Hernandez will be gone. I also see out ourfield that yr being Martinez-Beltran-Church. and Wright-Reyes-Castillo-Carp/Texiera at first.

[spoon]

The big loser in the Johan deal is Twins GM Bill Smith. You can't find a GM in baseball who would take what the Mets just gave up over the Hughes/Melky++ deal that was reported to be on the table. He completely fucked his franchise by dragging this out so long and making the Yanks take the deal off the table.

The Red Sox "offer" of Lester/Ellsbury plus Masterson and Lowrie was also far better, and this just proves it was never serious.

It proves NOTHING, you have NO CLUE. Stop acting like rumors were fucking fact and you have a crystal ball to see all these player's futures. Also, I think the Twins have a pretty good system in place for staying competitive at a good cost. So stop, STOP acting like ur a validated GM looking down on an organization staying as competitive as your buy a team every year approach.

[Bulldogcakes]

Wait. When the sox were gonna get Johan, they were BUYING EVERYONE. The yanks it woulda been ok, and the Mets, no problem, but GODDAMN if the Sox had gotten him. That just isn't right.

What a tool


THe Red Sox are the new Evil Empire. Get used to it.



Do you have any idea when someone is being serious and when just they're fucking around? Guess not.

[spoon]

And let's not get crazy about Johan being the 'pitcher of his generation.'

2007 Totals:

Johan Santana: 219 IP, 15-13, 3.33 ERA, 183 H, 33 HR, 235 K, 52 BB, 1.07 WHIP

Cole Hamels: 183.1 IP, 15-5, 3.39 ERA, 163 H, 25 HR, 177 K, 43 BB, 1.12 WHIP


Very comparable...it's not like they're adding Sandy Koufax. They're adding a guy they hope does for them what Hamels did for the Phillies last year.

...and at $25 million a year.


Wait, really!?!? Wow KC, you're on a homer level with fucking BDC on this one. That would be like me saying Gustavo Chacin is just as goo based on his 2005 stats too. Way to pick a guy's worst year (still fucking good) on a light hitting team vs Cole's best ever at any level. Is there anyone here, anyone outside of KC who would take Hamels over Santana. Let's not just sweep Hammels 06 year under the rug either since we're looking at Santan's worst year. In 06 Hammels was 9-8 with a 4.08 in the NL.

[spoon]

THe Red Sox are the new Evil Empire. Get used to it.



Do you have any idea when someone is being serious and when just they're fucking around? Guess not.

You're a LIAR! U were nothing but serious. U got on me for my continued yankee hate and told numerous times it's the Sox who I should hate. Let's always just remember the difference in attitude, appeal, grit and simply who started this massive overspending tactics. Who keeps mlb in this state as well? The GM/owners for the Pirates and Royals, or is it a keep at all costs approach (such as the lux tux) that the stein empire of evil has continually fought for. I'm sometimes convinced the yankee brass have terrible photos of Selig since he continually lets the league float in unfair state, instead of fixing the game before it's too late. Soon enough the yanks and other big market teams will fall off for some time and the little markets won't even do well in there own area bc almost all the fans will be yank, sox and met fans. It's disgusting how I run into these anywhere.

[Bulldogcakes]

It proves NOTHING, you have NO CLUE. Stop acting like rumors were fucking fact and you have a crystal ball to see all these player's futures. Also, I think the Twins have a pretty good system in place for staying competitive at a good cost. So stop, STOP acting like ur a validated GM looking down on an organization staying as competitive as your buy a team every year approach.

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ESPN poll (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3333&action=1&question24892=99563&question24893=99565&question24894=99567)
1) The Mets stole Johan Santana away from the Twins.


83.4% Good call

16.6% Bad call


Kieth Law (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3221258&name=law_keith&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3221258%26name%3dlaw_ keith)
But premium players should fetch premium prices, because there's value to a club in having so much production coming from a single roster spot. And in this case, Minnesota GM Bill Smith did not get a premium prospect in return.


Thoughts On The Johan Santana Trade (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-the.html)
Seems that this deal is official enough to evaluate. We know for a fact that the Twins will receive Carlos Gomez, Philip Humber, Kevin Mulvey, and Deolis Guerra. The general consensus seems to be that Twins GM Bill Smith passed on other offers that were better than this.
If Smith had taken the Yankees' best offer, he'd have an MLB-ready pitcher who was very recently regarded as the game's best pitching prospect (Phil Hughes). He'd also have a solid regular center fielder in Melky Cabrera. And the Twins would've gotten a couple of upside players on top of that.

Boston's top offer was better as well. The Twins could've filled center field, shortstop, and closer needs immediately with Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie, and Justin Masterson.

But that's just my take. The best folks to evaluate the Twins' return will be Baseball America, Keith Law, and Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein. The Twins could very well come out smelling like a rose; they just chose riskier, less proven players. As for the Mets, Omar Minaya deserves all the accolades for acquiring the best pitcher in baseball without surrendering his top prospect or anyone from the big league club.


Peter Abe (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/29/yankees-watch-as-santana-goes-to-mets/)
This is not a trade that can be evaluated now because we have no idea how the prospects will pan out. But at first glance, Minnesota would have been better off with the packages offered by the Red Sox or Yankees back in December at the Winter Meetings.
Spoon is too blinded by Yankee hatred to have any sense of perspective on this.

[Bulldogcakes]

You're a LIAR! U were nothing but serious. U got on me for my continued yankee hate and told numerous times it's the Sox who I should hate. Let's always just remember the difference in attitude, appeal, grit and simply who started this massive overspending tactics. Who keeps mlb in this state as well? The GM/owners for the Pirates and Royals, or is it a keep at all costs approach (such as the lux tux) that the stein empire of evil has continually fought for. I'm sometimes convinced the yankee brass have terrible photos of Selig since he continually lets the league float in unfair state, instead of fixing the game before it's too late. Soon enough the yanks and other big market teams will fall off for some time and the little markets won't even do well in there own area bc almost all the fans will be yank, sox and met fans. It's disgusting how I run into these anywhere.

Actually, business has never been better. Under Selig baseball has gone from a 2 billion $ biz to a 6+ billion $ biz. And the Yanks have been a top team the entire time. Its tough to make the case that the Yanks are "bad for baseball". If anything, you could make a strong case the other way around. Having the Yanks be good gives the rest of baseball someone to love or hate, and anything that sparks passions in fans is good for the game. Also, the Yanks have been #1 in road attendance for the past 10 years. People buy tickets to root for them and to boo them. THats good for business.

It's Seligs job to grow the business of baseball and he's been very successful at it.

[sailor]

And that's the point. You'd have to be an absolute maniac to say that Santana doesn't make the Mets a better team immediately.


who said the trade didn't make them better? i just haven't seen who's involved. all i can find anywhere is they didn't give up anywhere near what the yankees or boston offered. i'm baffled if that's true.

[Chip196]

who said the trade didn't make them better? i just haven't seen who's involved. all i can find anywhere is they didn't give up anywhere near what the yankees or boston offered. i'm baffled if that's true.

The Mets gave up:
OF Carlos Gomes
RHP Deolis Guerra
RHP Philip Humber
RHP Kevin Mulvey

This is a much smaller package than expected.

[oh_kee_pa]

Direct quote from Gammons in regards to trade

Gammons: "The Twins were tied up in the woods, stripped naked and raped at gunpoint, in regards to what they got back for Santana"

well, maybe not a direct quote

[sailor]

The Mets gave up:
OF Carlos Gomes
RHP Deolis Guerra
RHP Philip Humber
RHP Kevin Mulvey

This is a much smaller package than expected.

that's what she said.

[Basedow]

you take a down year for Santana vs. the best year in Hamels career and you still say its comparable but better for Santana.

If you don't think he is the best pitcher in baseball, you are a clueless baseball fan. I'm not saying he will be the greatest going forward, but he is the pitcher of his generation over the last 5-7 years.


cmon can we please quit with the "Santana is the greatest pitcher of his generation" claims. there is no disputing his elite status and great success since coming into the league in 2000, but you cant call somebody the greatest pitcher of his generation "maybe not going forward but over the last 5 to 7 years ". That doesn't make sense. generations aren't even that short. He would HAVE to be the best going forward for another of 6-7 years to earn that title. were gonna have to wait to get some distance between ourselves and Santana's career and evaluate it compared to the careers of all the young pitching talent in the league now and the star pitchers from the last seven years. then we can compare. what if mattingly had retired in 1988? would you be calling him the greatest first baseman of his generation after 6 seasons? its a bit reactionary to go throwing that title around at this point. almost as reactionary as joe beningno and evan Roberts claiming that the season is over every time the mets lose a game.

and its crazy to tell people that if they don't think Santana is top two in the game right now that they aren't real baseball fans. everyone agrees he is on the short list of elite pitchers and might hav been the most consistent outstanding performer over the past few seasons. projecting for 08 he should get even better pitching against a SP every 9th batter.
But considering how long a season is, and knowing that over the course of a season anything can happen from a down season to a freak injury it isn't fundamentally WRONG to be happy and optimistic about having a Cole Hamels, Gallardo, Cain, Hill, Lincecum, Manny Parra, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kazmir, Peavy, Liriano...etc. Those guys are younger and cost less. Each one could *potentially* outperform Santana next season. That being said I think the best post ive seen on the Hamels and Santana situation pointed out that Hamels upside IS in fact Santana. the mets got a proven commodity, an got better in 08. Now if they could only take back that milledge trade....

[Snoogans]

THe Red Sox are the new Evil Empire. Get used to it.



Do you have any idea when someone is being serious and when just they're fucking around? Guess not.

You are gonna claim you were fuckin around by spending like 40 posts saying the red sox are being cheap and "buying" players and then tryin to explain why Johan Santana sucks and it was good the sox are getting stuck with him?

So thats your new thing, once you were wrong or said something retarded, you just act like you were kidding and people will think you were joking the whole time?

[Snoogans]

Actually, business has never been better. Under Selig baseball has gone from a 2 billion $ biz to a 6+ billion $ biz. And the Yanks have been a top team the entire time. Its tough to make the case that the Yanks are "bad for baseball". If anything, you could make a strong case the other way around. Having the Yanks be good gives the rest of baseball someone to love or hate, and anything that sparks passions in fans is good for the game. Also, the Yanks have been #1 in road attendance for the past 10 years. People buy tickets to root for them and to boo them. THats good for business.

It's Seligs job to grow the business of baseball and he's been very successful at it.

Yea try explainin that to a Royals fan. Or the probably millions of people who would be fans of their local small market team except whats the point, none of them can keep up with the big spenders, so why even get invested.

People buy tickets to the yankees from one area.Who cares about road attendance, thats like 4 days a year most places that it matters. Baseball buisiness is getting better which is probably a BAD THING, cause they will allow it to continue, and eventually, nobody outside of the 6 biggest markets will care and baseball will go in the tank.
also you cant keep comparing revenues from baseball in a time where it had just been LEVELED by a strike to now. If revenue and everything didnt go up 3 times, you should be embarrassed. that was the lowest point of baseball so you are really fuckin blind if you think that comparing the dollar figures to today even matters

[K.C.]

Wait, really!?!? Wow KC, you're on a homer level with fucking BDC on this one. That would be like me saying Gustavo Chacin is just as goo based on his 2005 stats too. Way to pick a guy's worst year (still fucking good) on a light hitting team vs Cole's best ever at any level. Is there anyone here, anyone outside of KC who would take Hamels over Santana. Let's not just sweep Hammels 06 year under the rug either since we're looking at Santan's worst year. In 06 Hammels was 9-8 with a 4.08 in the NL.

First off, why is it assumed that last year is just 'an off year' for Santana and he's going to be Carlton-esque next year for the Mets?


But getting away from that, you missed the point. Santana is a great pitcher...Top two in baseball, but at the risk of running an analogy into the ground by using it too much, he's not Bob Gibson in '68.

This doesn't deliver anything to the Mets in terms of the playoffs other than putting them back in the race for the division, which, if they hadn't made this move, they'd be on the outside looking in at.


And I'll say this one last time...if the Mets avoid injury, they're the favorites. Chances of that happening: 0%


And read Jayson Stark's ESPN.com column up right now...he echoes the same sentiments. If the Mets are healthy, they're formidable...but an Alou injury here, an El Duque injury there, some back spasms send Wagner on another indefinite leave....this team mortgaged its depth and all its chips, save Fernando Martinez, to get Santana. They have no flexibility for this season to address any potential issues that crop up.


Do I like Santana? Yes. Do I think he's one of the best pitchers in baseball? Yes. Do I think he's worth what the Mets are giving up in prospects and dollars? No. Is he THAT much better than John Smoltz or Cole Hamels, the other aces in this division? He's definitely better, but it's not a difference maker in terms of projecting these teams.

The Mets' season success is tied into Pedro, El Duque, Delgado, and Wagner...those guys perform and stay healthy, they're good.

[NickyL0885]

First off, why is it assumed that last year is just 'an off year' for Santana and he's going to be Carlton-esque next year for the Mets?


But getting away from that, you missed the point. Santana is a great pitcher...Top two in baseball, but at the risk of running an analogy into the ground by using it too much, he's not Bob Gibson in '68.

This doesn't deliver anything to the Mets in terms of the playoffs other than putting them back in the race for the division, which, if they hadn't made this move, they'd be on the outside looking in at.


And I'll say this one last time...if the Mets avoid injury, they're the favorites. Chances of that happening: 0%


And read Jayson Stark's ESPN.com column up right now...he echoes the same sentiments. If the Mets are healthy, they're formidable...but an Alou injury here, an El Duque injury there, some back spasms send Wagner on another indefinite leave....this team mortgaged its depth and all its chips, save Fernando Martinez, to get Santana. They have no flexibility for this season to address any potential issues that crop up.


Do I like Santana? Yes. Do I think he's one of the best pitchers in baseball? Yes. Do I think he's worth what the Mets are giving up in prospects and dollars? No. Is he THAT much better than John Smoltz or Cole Hamels, the other aces in this division? He's definitely better, but it's not a difference maker in terms of projecting these teams.

The Mets' season success is tied into Pedro, El Duque, Delgado, and Wagner...those guys perform and stay healthy, they're good.

Even with Alou's injury, we got Endy, Anderson, Easily. Guys who can step in. Plus, ya never know what can happen. Some 30yr old minor leaguer can have a good season to be called up an produce enough. But im sure the mets will get a power type bench OF. perhaps a spring training invite. And we still got Pelfrey for El Duque. Sanchez will be back, so if we lose Wagner, we should be fine. Joe Smith wasnt a bad rookie reliever for us. Was pretty damn good for most of the season until he got figured out. He should make the roster an do better. I think we will be fine. Injuries happen to everytime. Even if Endy replaces Alou for 30 games, endy bats what? 2nd? 7th?. He wont need to hit like Alou, hes fast, can bunt to get on base. Delgado will have a better yr. I dont think he was healthy. he even admitted he knew he needed to make adjustments in his approach but he was stubborn since why change something thats work so long and also, changing admits that hes declining. no ball player likes admitting that.

[spoon]

Spoon is too blinded by Yankee hatred to have any sense of perspective on this.

At least this time ur at least posting things u heard on actually respected sites, however u once again miss my point. I DON'T CARE how many times someone talks about trade rumors and what's in the media, or even what the trade is at the time. This trade can't be assessed until 4-5 years down the road. Also, teams like Minny shouldn't HAVE to make moves like this. Santana should be a Twin, but it isn't even possible. Hence my convo on the league being a mess. It has soooo little to do with my yankee hate at this point you ass, but my love of MLB and the disdain for the 6 team monopoly it has become. Shaun and Met fans agree with me on this being of those 6 teams. However, I expect nothing less than the responses we get from you on a daily basis. If u like racing everyone in your corvette vs their mini-van go for it. Yet even with this HUGE advantage the spank brass manage to fuck it up. And quote all the people u want on this, did you ever factor in that they didn't want to trade Santana in their division to two anual playoff teams they often face!?! Try thinking with ur own fucking brain just once! Oh wait, don't bother....that head is full of hair like ur back.

[spoon]

First off, why is it assumed that last year is just 'an off year' for Santana and he's going to be Carlton-esque next year for the Mets?


But getting away from that, you missed the point. Santana is a great pitcher...Top two in baseball, but at the risk of running an analogy into the ground by using it too much, he's not Bob Gibson in '68.

This doesn't deliver anything to the Mets in terms of the playoffs other than putting them back in the race for the division, which, if they hadn't made this move, they'd be on the outside looking in at.


And I'll say this one last time...if the Mets avoid injury, they're the favorites. Chances of that happening: 0%


And read Jayson Stark's ESPN.com column up right now...he echoes the same sentiments. If the Mets are healthy, they're formidable...but an Alou injury here, an El Duque injury there, some back spasms send Wagner on another indefinite leave....this team mortgaged its depth and all its chips, save Fernando Martinez, to get Santana. They have no flexibility for this season to address any potential issues that crop up.


Do I like Santana? Yes. Do I think he's one of the best pitchers in baseball? Yes. Do I think he's worth what the Mets are giving up in prospects and dollars? No. Is he THAT much better than John Smoltz or Cole Hamels, the other aces in this division? He's definitely better, but it's not a difference maker in terms of projecting these teams.

The Mets' season success is tied into Pedro, El Duque, Delgado, and Wagner...those guys perform and stay healthy, they're good.

I was truly put off by u trying to say Hammels is anywhere near Santana' level at this point (which u did claim) and that he has more potential. Hell, he may not even pitch as long even being younger. As for the Gibson comment, I think it is that big. I think they have injuries just like any team, but they make the playoffs and are a force in the NL. Do they take out the AL team, probably not. But it does fill a HUGE hole and it was a good move for both teams. Also, the METS have TONS of money. They can always fill holes in the offseason with free agents so this move is possible for them.

[BoondockSaint]

M&MD are saying that Jon Heyman told them that the Mets and Santana have agreed to a 6 year extension after '08 and that they are working out the money. Santana wants $160mil and Mets have offered $140 mil. It'll get done.

[BeerBandit]

M&MD are saying that Jon Heyman told them that the Mets and Santana have agreed to a 6 year extension after '08 and that they are working out the money. Santana wants $160mil and Mets have offered $140 mil. It'll get done.

I've heard that he wants a raise for '08 as well, bumped up to $20 mil.

[BoondockSaint]

I've heard that he wants a raise for '08 as well, bumped up to $20 mil.

Yeah, it'll be 7 years total for the 140 to 160.

[Bossanova]

Just get it done Omar

[Kevin]

I just heard that the deal just fell apart..



I read it in this message board.. The guy was named Ken B... He said he thinks it will fall apart..So you know it has to be true.. Sorry Met fans..

[cougarjake13]

I just heard that the deal just fell apart..



I read it in this message board.. The guy was named Ken B... He said he thinks it will fall apart..So you know it has to be true.. Sorry Met fans..

o well


it was worth a shot

[Bulldogcakes]

o well


it was worth a shot

CJ, he's just being an ass. Nothing's changed.

[Kevin]

I think CJ knows i was kidding.

[Bossanova]

Fuck all of you Met hating faggots, this deal will get done.

[Kevin]

Fuck all of you Met hating faggots, this deal will get done.

Why are you ripping off fandick tonight??

[Bossanova]

Why are you ripping off fandick tonight??

All you do is rip off people you fuck

[Kevin]

All you do is rip off people you fuck

Who do i rip off, Theo?

[Bossanova]

Who do i rip off, Theo?

You ripped off me and Phishy you fuck

[Kevin]

You ripped off me and Phishy you fuck

It must have been really unfunny then..

[Marc with a c]

Who do i rip off, Theo?

theo? you're ripping off this kid

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[Kevin]

theo? you're ripping off this kid

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That looks more like Willie trying to get Reyes under control.

[BoondockSaint]

Anybody else a little nervous?

[Marc with a c]

Anybody else a little nervous?

yes. so fucking annoying

[Earlshog]

I wonder if the Yanks would give up Hughes now?

[BoondockSaint]

ESPN’s Jayson Stark provides the latest update on the Santana negotiations, saying…

“The Mets and Johan Santana’s agents continued to negotiate furiously Friday, as a 5 p.m. ET deadline to complete terms of a long-term contract bore down on them. And as that deadline drew nearer, indications were that the key sticking point continued to be Santana’s attempts to get the Mets to guarantee all six years of his contract extension, on top of the final year of his current contract. According to baseball sources who have been monitoring the negotiations, the Mets’ best hope to resolve that disagreement would be to offer to guarantee the sixth season if Santana’s side would agree to accept fewer dollars per year.”

[ralphbxny]

If they dont give him what he wants the Mets should be forced to move to San fran and the Giants come back!

[BoondockSaint]

From Metsblog:

The Mets have been granted an additional two hours to negotiate a contract extension with Johan Santana.

I'm making myself a drink.

[lleeder]

From Metsblog:



I'm making myself a drink.

This deadline is ridiculous. There is no deadline. I was just saying to a friend today nothing will happen if the deadline passes, its stupid. The deadline is when the season starts. Until then and even after then this could drag on forever if they wanted.

[TheGameHHH]

This deadline is ridiculous. There is no deadline. I was just saying to a friend today nothing will happen if the deadline passes, its stupid. The deadline is when the season starts. Until then and even after then this could drag on forever if they wanted.

thats not true, remember the red sox lost A-rod after their deadline passed. i think it would be hilarious if the mets lost santana.

[Bossanova]

Watch your mouth sir

[BeerBandit]

Deal done!

[Bossanova]

Deal done!

I hadn't heard anything. Who confirmed sir?

[Kevin]

I hadn't heard anything. Who confirmed sir?

Tim Kurjian on ESPN just did

Good work all around for the Mets..

[Bossanova]

Tim Kurjian on ESPN just did

Good work all around for the Mets..

WOOOHOOO!!!! This is so big. Good job indeed Kevin

[Kevin]

WOOOHOOO!!!! This is so big. Good job indeed Kevin

Yea, Omar was patient and Wilpon put his money where his mouth is.

[Kevin]

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3226412)

[BoondockSaint]

Finally. I think we should use him to set up Wagner.

[Kevin]

Finally. I think we should use him to set up Wagner.

HA! Yea.. I hear his stamina isn't too great.. Plus he is 28.. That is a little old.

[Kevin]

I wish we could know what Great Tiger's Turban feels about all of this...

[Bossanova]

I wish we could know what Great Tiger's Turban feels about all of this...

I don't think he is a baseball guy

[BoondockSaint]

Wait, I thought the Mets were getting Tito. Who's Johan?

[Kevin]

I don't think he is a baseball guy

Someone should tell him that the Mets are a new Cricket expansion team.. That would get him going.

[Kevin]

Wait, I thought the Mets were getting Tito. Who's Johan?

Its not?? Damn.. I was expecting the Yanks to counter with Rick Martel, any minute now..

[BoondockSaint]

$150mil+ and the guy doesn't even do the Flying Burrito? This is bullshit.

[Marc with a c]

oh man i am in a good mood.

[BoondockSaint]

I predict 28 wins and a 0.98 ERA.

[Bulldogcakes]

Congrats! You guys now have the best pitcher in all of baseball. You're going to like him off the field too. Very upbeat guy and generally good with the media.

7 years is probably 2 too many, but for now who cares. He wins 100+ games over the next 5 years and leads you to the playoffs more often than not, then its a good deal.

[cougarjake13]

Congrats! You guys now have the best pitcher in all of baseball. You're going to like him off the field too. Very upbeat guy and generally good with the media.

7 years is probably 2 too many, but for now who cares. He wins 100+ games over the next 5 years and leads you to the playoffs more often than not, then its a good deal.

yeh that back end could bite us in the end but if he even helps bring one world series ring to shea or citifield then its worth it

[Bulldogcakes]

Mets Pass Yankees as New York's Most Likely World Series Winner (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a8HSM1dXRyD0&refer=home)

Vegas loves the Santana move.

[cougarjake13]

Mets Pass Yankees as New York's Most Likely World Series Winner (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a8HSM1dXRyD0&refer=home)

Vegas loves the Santana move.



well its kinda like the NFL with the AFC- NFC


the NL is much easier to get through to the world series than it is for the AL

[BoondockSaint]

You're going to like him off the field too. Very upbeat guy and generally good with the media.



How do yo know this more than any one of us? You've read the same articles that all of us have read. Did you really think that Marc or Bossanova read this and went "Whew" because they were worried?

[Bulldogcakes]

How do yo know this more than any one of us? You've read the same articles that all of us have read. Did you really think that Marc or Bossanova read this and went "Whew" because they were worried?

Apparently I've read some articles you haven't. That's what the local Minnesota beat guys say about him. I also heard one of them do a radio interview.

[Kevin]

Apparently I've read some articles you haven't. That's what the local Minnesota beat guys say about him. I also heard one of them do a radio interview.

There are like 2 guys in the Local minnasota beat.. I would like to see how he acts with like 70 at his face every game.

[BoondockSaint]

Apparently I've read some articles you haven't. That's what the local Minnesota beat guys say about him. I also heard one of them do a radio interview.

You didn't understand my statement. We (meaning us) have read all of the same articles. And have read all the same stes as you.

[Kevin]

Santana agrees to $137.5M, 6-year contract with Mets... Cheaper than everyone thought..

[Bulldogcakes]

You didn't understand my statement. We (meaning us) have read all of the same articles. And have read all the same sites as you.

I assume Mets fans don't read Yankee websites on a daily basis like I do. Maybe I'm wrong about that, or maybe I still don't understand what you're talking about, but anyway here's an interview with Jim Souhan (http://www.nomaas.org/twins.html), who is one of the most respected baseball writers in Minnesota. I also heard a radio interview that I can't find.

[spadanko]

amazing amazing... a move that had to be done...

[Marc with a c]

Congrats! You guys now have the best pitcher in all of baseball. You're going to like him off the field too. Very upbeat guy and generally good with the media.

whew

[Kevin]

whew

I am hoping the Yanks get Anthony Young or the rotation.. I hear he is a really nice guy off the field..

[K.C.]

I was truly put off by u trying to say Hammels is anywhere near Santana' level at this point (which u did claim) and that he has more potential. Hell, he may not even pitch as long even being younger. As for the Gibson comment, I think it is that big. I think they have injuries just like any team, but they make the playoffs and are a force in the NL. Do they take out the AL team, probably not. But it does fill a HUGE hole and it was a good move for both teams. Also, the METS have TONS of money. They can always fill holes in the offseason with free agents so this move is possible for them.


No, I claimed that if you compare statistics from last season, what Santana did last season was on par with what Hamels did.

Hamels obviously doesn't have the track record or hardware that Santana does have. I'm not going to pretend I wouldn't take Santana if I need a guy for this season, or for the next three seasons, all other things being equal. (which they're not, as of right now Santana's costing the Mets an extra $150 million and four prospects).

But I will stand by the potential comment. Hamels was the best LHP prospect in baseball when he came up. His final year in the minors, he dominated like people had not seen in a long time, and he's developed into what most scouts consider a legitimate #1 ace in just two years.

Most people say he's got the second best changeup in baseball already (behind Santana who has the best) with the potential to make it even better. I'd say he has a + fastball, a definite + changeup, and the the ability to develop a + curveball over time. The only thing that might derail him from reaching elite status, would be injury.


As for the rest of your post, we'll see how it plays out...I don't buy that the Mets have an unstoppable cache of money anymore than I buy that the Yankees do. Everyone has their limits (as we're now seeing with the Yanks), and by all accounts the Mets seem to have reached theirs for this offseason.

And when it comes to the trading deadline...it's not so much about spending cash, it's about having the chips to trade, which they don't have anymore, save Fernando Martinez who they'd be stupid to trade given that they dumped Gomez and Milledge, their two most promising OFs in the same offseason.

So I see them in a very difficult position if they need to make moves from this point going forward, at least for the '08 season. They get some flexibility in '09 with some big money coming off the books.

[HBox]

No, I claimed that if you compare statistics from last season, what Santana did last season was on par with what Hamels did.

Hamels obviously doesn't have the track record or hardware that Santana does have. I'm not going to pretend I wouldn't take Santana if I need a guy for this season, or for the next three seasons, all other things being equal. (which they're not, as of right now Santana's costing the Mets an extra $150 million and four prospects).

But I will stand by the potential comment. Hamels was the best LHP prospect in baseball when he came up. His final year in the minors, he dominated like people had not seen in a long time, and he's developed into what most scouts consider a legitimate #1 ace in just two years.

Most people say he's got the second best changeup in baseball already (behind Santana who has the best) with the potential to make it even better. I'd say he has a + fastball, a definite + changeup, and the the ability to develop a + curveball over time. The only thing that might derail him from reaching elite status, would be injury.


As for the rest of your post, we'll see how it plays out...I don't buy that the Mets have an unstoppable cache of money anymore than I buy that the Yankees do. Everyone has their limits (as we're now seeing with the Yanks), and by all accounts the Mets seem to have reached theirs for this offseason.

And when it comes to the trading deadline...it's not so much about spending cash, it's about having the chips to trade, which they don't have anymore, save Fernando Martinez who they'd be stupid to trade given that they dumped Gomez and Milledge, their two most promising OFs in the same offseason.

So I see them in a very difficult position if they need to make moves from this point going forward, at least for the '08 season. They get some flexibility in '09 with some big money coming off the books.

What are you basing THAT on? They way they obscenely overpaid Posada and Rivera? Or by closing the biggest contract in sports history? Santana would be a Yankee if Hank Steinbrenner had full control. Luckily Hal and Cashman convinced him not to.

The yanks did not give up on Santana because the HAD to, they chose to.

[BoondockSaint]

"Is good."

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/03/alg_santana.jpg

[Bulldogcakes]

whew

SEE?! SEE!?!?!

Thank God I posted that.

[spadanko]

"Is good."

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/03/alg_santana.jpg

this dude is going to be an absolute rock star in this town

[BoondockSaint]

What a handsome man.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080206/capt.7ae5eb9caf7a40e6884f82cfd0ff3016.mets_santana _baseball_nyff111.jpg?x=264&y=345&sig=Kab3BCrJKXCGfzHlb9QWdQ--

[Kevin]

What a handsome man.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080206/capt.7ae5eb9caf7a40e6884f82cfd0ff3016.mets_santana _baseball_nyff111.jpg?x=264&y=345&sig=Kab3BCrJKXCGfzHlb9QWdQ--

Such a nice guy..

[Knowledged_one]

this dude is going to be an absolute rock star in this town

didnt they say the same thing about the Bonilla signing?

[spadanko]

<----------------- Bonerific



(no homo)

[King Hippos Bandaid]

What a handsome man.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080206/capt.7ae5eb9caf7a40e6884f82cfd0ff3016.mets_santana _baseball_nyff111.jpg?x=264&y=345&sig=Kab3BCrJKXCGfzHlb9QWdQ--

I gots 57 reasons to brag to dem durty filly fans