Teachers Get No Respect

[lleeder]

I was shocked when listening to the show today to find out most people don't respect teachers and college professors. I never really had a problem with them and have had some really good interesting professors over the years. Some callers seemed to view teaching as a way to "give up" or "make easy money". It made me feel bad that people want education for their kids but don't think the professors giving it to them are worthy of their praise.

[torker]

We don't deserve it.

[weekapaugjz]

fuck this shit. i guess i couldn't listen to this segment, CAUSE I WAS TOO BUSY TEACHING! fuck anyone who doesn't think teaching is a profession and do not respect teachers or professors. sure, there are some shitty teachers out there, but where is a job in which there aren't shitty people? im really interested in hearing this segment, ill have to record the show tonight.

a give up job? an easy way to make money? teaching isn't a job that you can just forget about when you go home at five for the rest of the night, there is still doing all the paperwork, making up tests, planning lessons, doing reading and research of your own to make sure you understand the material you are teaching. i got to school today at 7, left at 4:30, and still have a good two hours worth of work to do tonight.

anyone who thinks teaching is easy, i would love to see stand in front of 25 teenagers and try to teach them anything. good fucking luck budday.

[Judge Smails]

I'm a college professor. I'm certainly not averse to people using this thread to heap praise and reverence upon me if they so choose.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Wifey Teaches 4th Grade in Brooklyn, they divided the classes due to intelligence and she got stuck with the 1s and 2s,( the future fry cooks) . They have no respect for her (either because they are immature or Russians with Misogynist Fathers). She cant take away school trips, not allowed to make them write apology letters or give extra homework (Corporal Punishment). The Kids know if they pass the New York City Wide Math and Writing Tests, they will NOT get held over.

The Teachers have nothing to discipline the students with except for Notes home to their Parents which oddly enough never make it to their Parents. These Fucking Kids roll their eyes, laugh at and try to outsmart her every day. Not to mention Call Out all the Time, never do their work or Homework and not pay attention.

I want to come to her school and really see how many 9 yr olds I can beat up. Guess who gets the transferred anger, you guessed it Me!!!!

:king:

[Stankfoot]

I'm a college professor. I'm certainly not averse to people using this thread to heap praise and reverence upon me if they so choose.

So the guy who started the thread:
"If I told you that you smell like cunt, would you hold it against me?"
is a college professor?

go figure ..... :blink:

[torker]

Wifey Teaches 4th Grade in Brooklyn, they divided the classes due to intelligence and she got stuck with the 1s and 2s,( the future fry cooks) . They have no respect for her (either because they are immature or Russians with Misogynist Fathers). She cant take away school trips, not allowed to make them write apology letters or give extra homework (Corporal Punishment). The Kids know if they pass the New York City Wide Math and Writing Tests, they will NOT get held over.

The Teachers have nothing to discipline the students with except for Notes home to their Parents which oddly enough never make it to their Parents. These Fucking Kids roll their eyes, laugh at and try to outsmart her every day. Not to mention Call Out all the Time, never do their work or Homework and not pay attention.

I want to come to her school and really see how many 9 yr olds I can beat up. Guess who gets the transferred anger, you guessed it Me!!!!

:king:



It isn't enough she slaves teaching your stupid kids how to read and write...
http://bits.westhost.com/scripts/WonderfulLife/images/wl_100175.jpg


This is the business we have chosen.

[Judge Smails]

So the guy who started the thread:
"If I told you that you smell like cunt, would you hold it against me?"
is a college professor?

go figure ..... :blink:

I is an enigma. Ain't I?


(I'm sorry you had to read that Earl.)

[KnoxHarrington]

The guy who called in and inspired this thread today was an absolute douchebag. He argued that professors in law schools are losers who can't argue a real case.

No, asswipe. They're people who love the law, but want to teach others about it. They also might be interested in it in the broadest, most theoretical senses, which wouldn't be possible if they had to worry about making billable hours.

I love how Ronnie toys with hayseeds like that instead of just yelling at them and hanging up. He knows their stupidity speaks for itself.

[ChrisTheCop]

I know a guy in New jersey whose name is Scott.

His wife got a B- once, so he now hates all teachers... even though the teacher eventually changed it to a B+.

[CigarettesForLunch]

The best thing the caller had to say was that the educational field is not competitive. Sure, I guess any moron can walk into Yale or Columbia and get a job.

[JPMNICK]

The best thing the caller had to say was that the educational field is not competitive. Sure, I guess any moron can walk into Yale or Columbia and get a job.

it is harder to get a job teaching 2nd grade than it is to be a programmer for a small company in terms of an educational past

[waltermitty]

Teaching is like any other profession out there. There will be some people who half ass it, and there are some who care and actually teach.
We all had Teachers who were awful; and we all had teachers that went out of their way to reach students, teach valuable things, and make a difference.

Teachers are underpaid and undervalued in our society. No doubt. But it is like everything else, if you actually care and put forth an effort, there are rewards. (Life rewards and financial rewards)

My sister and brother-in-law both teach. They aren't poor or lazy. The both have Masters in Education and are working towards PhD's.... They pull 50k+ each... They are good teachers....

The saying "Those who can do, those who can't teach" is crap...

(I wouldn't want to put up with 25-30 kids that I didn't create for 8 hrs a day!!!)

[Fallon]

I know a bunch of teachers, most are nice people who are trying to help kids. You can pick out the bad ones pretty easy though, their classrooms are a mess. Which means the kids are fucking around and not learning.

[ChrisTheCop]

I know a bunch of teachers, most are nice people who are trying to help kids. You can pick out the bad ones pretty easy though, their classrooms are a mess. Which means the kids are fucking around and not learning.

ScottinNJ believes that if a few are bad, then theyre all bad.

[Yerdaddy]

http://www.netwalk.com/~truegger/ftrh/hand-thing.jpg

"What are you people, on dope?"

[SatCam]

I know a bunch of teachers, most are nice people who are trying to help kids. You can pick out the bad ones pretty easy though, their classrooms are a mess. Which means the kids are fucking around and not learning.

the bad teachers make your job harder :wallbash:

[A.J.]

the bad teachers make your job harder :wallbash:

The hot teachers make me harder.

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[Mullenax]

I'm in the process of earning my master's so I can teach college. (Not because I "failed" in the real world!). Here's what I and everyone else trying to become faculty at a university are up against:
*To even get noticed or an interview at a university, it is sometimes necessary to trek cross country to a once-a-year hiring conference such as CAA where time slots for interviews is so competitive wanna-be teachers slide resumes under the hotel room doors all night long to random universities.
*To get noticed or interviewed by an ivy league school (not only do you need a Master's and/or PHD from a reputable institution) you need to have been published in a professional journal, have insane amounts of field experience, exhibited/lectured internationally, or be otherwise partly famous ALREADY in your field of expertise. You cannot just fall into it after walking away from an unsuccessful business venture. No school wants to hire a failure to teach their students! They want high success rates after graduation to attract new students. They want professors who will put the school's name in professional research publications like New England Journal of Medicine. They want notable/famous faculty to attract better students and maintain their status.
* By the way, even if you can get hired by a "good" school you may have up to Ten years being an Adjunct faculty, meaning you only teach three or four classes a semester and have no health benefits or job security with the institution. You can be dismissed easily, and the pay is so poor you'll need to either adjunct at another nearby school or get a part-time job (meanwhile trying to bolster your credentials by continuing to research/publish/exhibit/lecture so you can get full-time status).
:smile:After all that, don't they deserve to wear sandals to class?
Thank you Mister Bennington for defending college professors!

[RoseBlood]

Every profession/job gets shit on. Whatever career path you choose, there will always be haters, and there will always be jokes; just like there is good and bad in EVERY profession. There will always be people who will critisize and think they can do a much better job. It's part of life.. we DEAL with it.. or better yet, use people's criticism to prove them wrong.

[CigarettesForLunch]

Every profession/job gets shit on. Whatever career path you choose, there will always be haters, and there will always be jokes; just like there is good and bad in EVERY profession. There will always be people who will critisize and think they can do a much better job. It's part of life.. we DEAL with it.. or better yet, use people's criticism to prove them wrong.


The problem is not that there are "haters", the problem is that a certain segment of the right wing in this country finds it politically expedient to encourage anti-intellectualism.

Good teachers teach, they don't indoctrinate. Overall, there are more liberal than conservative teachers, but that fact is immaterial. The goal of a teacher is to impart critical thinking skills and the tools necessary for every students success. An institution's reputation is staked on that premise, and an institution is destined to decline if it can not abide by that premise. The stupidity of anti-intellectualism is aptly demonstrated by yesterday's caller, but the fact that so many people buy into it is frightening.

Teachers are not in it for the money; most of them are there to give something back to the community and for the chance to make a positive impact on peoples' lives. I am not a teacher, but I am extremely greatful that I had a number of talented teachers who gave up lucrative careers to teach.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Every profession/job gets shit on. Whatever career path you choose, there will always be haters, and there will always be jokes; just like there is good and bad in EVERY profession. There will always be people who will critisize and think they can do a much better job. It's part of life.. we DEAL with it.. or better yet, use people's criticism to prove them wrong.

very valid point

but it is annoying when 8 yr olds are the ones shitting on you

In the Corporate World, management who Pays you, does the shitting which sucks, but is Bearable

Nothing worse then 9 yr olds being pricks to you, when you are giving them a FREE education which will help them in their futures.

:king:

[Thrice]

very valid point

but it is annoying when 8 yr olds are the ones shitting on you

In the Corporate World, management who Pays you, does the shitting which sucks, but is Bearable

Nothing worse then 9 yr olds being pricks to you, when you are giving them a FREE education which will help them in their futures.

:king:



Well it's not really a FREE education is it? It's socialized education.

Fucking liberals.

[Death Metal Moe]

My mother is a kindergarten teacher at a private Christian school. Not only does she get no respect, she gets lower than average pay and a whole bunch of shitty Christan bullshit along with it.

These cunt parents come in there with their kids like these little assholes are all future leaders of the world. Guess what jerkoffs, they're gonna grow up to be as useless as you.

But my mother is a very patient, kind Christan woman so she's a lot more well equipped than I to teach. Plus she loves kids, which I will never understand.

[EliSnow]

The guy who called in and inspired this thread today was an absolute douchebag. He argued that professors in law schools are losers who can't argue a real case.

I didn't hear this douche, but I'd love to have him meet my law school professors, including my con law professor who has argued several times in front of the Supreme Court, and was part of the famous Falwell v. Hustler case (on the side of free speech of course).

8 of out 10 times you hear callers, they are just spouting off cliches and/or bumper sticker logic with no real knowledge.

[Bulldogcakes]

Teachers are underpaid and undervalued in our society. No doubt. But it is like everything else, if you actually care and put forth an effort, there are rewards. (Life rewards and financial rewards)


I have very fond memories of some teachers who made a real impact on me. One of the things I learned in school was basic economics. Teachers really aren't underpaid, maybe in NYC where there is a shortage of qualified teachers for some specific schools, but generally not and not elsewhere in this region or country. There are waiting lists to get into many suburban school districts (full time), I personally know teachers who've been trying for years to get into them. If you had a situation where salaries were too low, jobs would be easily available and open frequently as the more experienced and qualified moved on to higher paying jobs elsewhere. But thats not the case.

Plus, most teachers only work 9 months a year anyway, with tons of vacation time even when they are working. So if their salaries seem low, factor in that they only work 3/4 (with vacation time actually closer to 2/3) of a year. Teachers start out (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary) around 32K and go up to around 54K annually. Adjust the 9 month work year to 12 months and thats 43K-72K for a full year. Not bad, thats a good middle class salary in most areas. Thats nationwide, in New York it's more (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=New_York_City_(NYC)_Department_of_Educati on/Salary) like 50K per year, which adjusted for the 9 month year is 65K per year. Plus all the generous benefits (Medical, pension, etc) city jobs are known for. Thats really not bad at all.

The "underpaid teacher" is a myth spread by their union reps looking to get their members raises. Which is fine, it their job to do so. But its just not true. (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm)

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the average public elementary school teacher in the United States earns about $30.75 an hour. The average hourly pay of other public-service employees - such as firefighters ($17.91) or police officers ($22.64) - pales in comparison.

Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

Whose hourly pay is competitive with that of teachers? Computer scientists ($32.86), dentists ($35.51) and even nuclear engineers ($36.16).

[Yerdaddy]

I have very fond memories of some teachers who made a real impact on me. One of the things I learned in school was basic economics. Teachers really aren't underpaid, maybe in NYC where there is a shortage of qualified teachers for some specific schools, but generally not and not elsewhere in this region or country. There are waiting lists to get into many suburban school districts (full time), I personally know teachers who've been trying for years to get into them. If you had a situation where salaries were too low, jobs would be easily available and open frequently as the more experienced and qualified moved on to higher paying jobs elsewhere. But thats not the case.

Plus, most teachers only work 9 months a year anyway, with tons of vacation time even when they are working. So if their salaries seem low, factor in that they only work 3/4 (with vacation time actually closer to 2/3) of a year. Teachers start out (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary) around 32K and go up to around 54K annually. Adjust the 9 month work year to 12 months and thats 43K-72K for a full year. Not bad, thats a good middle class salary in most areas. Thats nationwide, in New York it's more (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=New_York_City_(NYC)_Department_of_Educati on/Salary) like 50K per year, which adjusted for the 9 month year is 65K per year. Plus all the generous benefits (Medical, pension, etc) city jobs are known for. Thats really not bad at all.

The "underpaid teacher" is a myth spread by their union reps looking to get their members raises. Which is fine, it their job to do so. But its just not true. (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm)

For the sake of predictability I'll post the liberal think-tank response to your conservative think-tank opinion - Jay Greene’s persistent misuse of data for teacher pay comparisons (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_teacher_pay_comparisons). The main criticism, I think, of Greene's analysis is that, while cops and firefighters get compensated for overtime, (I've had a few friends and most of the seven cops I was locked in a witness room with in DC for three days made more money for the year from overtime - arrests at the end of a shift and court appearances - than from regular pay), teachers's salaries, according to the source Greene uses, do not factor in the time teachers spend grading papers and reading shitty papers at home, preparing lesson plans and participating in extracurricular school activities.

A bit of fun: If you believe the NCS Hourly Wage Data*, then you believe:

Economics professors ($61.73) are the second highest paid professionals after pilots and make far more than business professors ($42.58 ).

English professors ($43.50) make more than dentists ($33.34) or nuclear engineers ($36.16 ).

Law professors ($51.71) make the same as judges ($51.67) and more than doctors ($50.69 ).

Physical education professors ($40.06) make more than architects ($26.63), accountants ($23.34), and computer programmers ($24.88 ).

Sociology professors ($32.39) make more than mechanical engineers ($29.84) and architects ($26.63 ).

[PapaBear]

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

Another factor with teacher income is how much of their own money they spend. I'm referring, of course, to public school teachers. I know for a fact, that many of them spend a lot of their own money to help their students. They buy supplies (particularly on the grammar school level) for individual students, and for projects for the entire class. They use any resource they can, to teach these kids.

[Crispy123]

I know a guy in New jersey whose name is Scott.

His wife got a B- once, so he now hates all teachers... even though the teacher eventually changed it to a B+.

Yeah, teachers have this attitude like their sh*t don't stink, they can do whatever they want because they're teachers, and they all stick together and cover each others asses when they act like the criminals they are supposed to be teaching.
:wink::wink::wink:

J/K

That caller was a douche (probably a cop :tongue::tongue::tongue:).

[WNEWstinks]

We really only work 180 days a year...that's right less then half the year. The teachers who can relate and are understand are the teachers that students respect. While you cant be overly relaxed, you need to know when to dray the line.

I work for an okay public school in Queens. Started out with 47,000 and im working on the masters and cerdits above that. The more schooling, the more $$

While I will always want more money, I think im paid for the service I provide.

[weekapaugjz]

Indeed, teachers' hourly rate exceeds even those in professions that require far more training and expertise. Compare the schoolteacher's $30.75 to the average biologist's $28.07 an hour - or the mechanical engineer's $29.76 or the chemist's $30.68.

BDC, i know this isn't your quote but from something you quoted, but i don't agree with this statement at all. saying teachers don't have a lot of training or expertise is a load of shit. to be certified as a teacher in NYS, you must observe in a classroom for at least 100 hours while taking education classes, then student teach for 6 months unpaid. (actually paying for it in tuition). then within five years of being certified, you must complete your masters degree in either education or the field you are teaching. i have just finished 6 1/2 years of school to become a teacher and have my masters in education. i don't think the "average" biologist, mechanical engineer or chemist has a masters degree (i could be wrong).

i also agree with what yerdaddy says about time spent out of school preparing lessons and reading "shitty" papers is not accounted for in the hours worked. i am at school everyday from 7-4:30 everyday equaling roughly 45 hours a week. i then spend at least 10 to 15 hours a week outside of school doing work at home. that equals up to 60 hours a week. im not saying i am underpaid, i am very happy with my contract, but i don' think a lot of people realize how much time teachers put into their work and they should be compensated accordingly.

i am also glad to be in the NYS education system because they have some of the best benefits in the country. i have friends working in the south that are making less than $25,000 a year. the northeastern states pay a lot more than most areas in the country.

[Snacks]

I have very fond memories of some teachers who made a real impact on me. One of the things I learned in school was basic economics. Teachers really aren't underpaid, maybe in NYC where there is a shortage of qualified teachers for some specific schools, but generally not and not elsewhere in this region or country. There are waiting lists to get into many suburban school districts (full time), I personally know teachers who've been trying for years to get into them. If you had a situation where salaries were too low, jobs would be easily available and open frequently as the more experienced and qualified moved on to higher paying jobs elsewhere. But thats not the case.

Plus, most teachers only work 9 months a year anyway, with tons of vacation time even when they are working. So if their salaries seem low, factor in that they only work 3/4 (with vacation time actually closer to 2/3) of a year. Teachers start out (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary) around 32K and go up to around 54K annually. Adjust the 9 month work year to 12 months and thats 43K-72K for a full year. Not bad, thats a good middle class salary in most areas. Thats nationwide, in New York it's more (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=New_York_City_(NYC)_Department_of_Educati on/Salary) like 50K per year, which adjusted for the 9 month year is 65K per year. Plus all the generous benefits (Medical, pension, etc) city jobs are known for. Thats really not bad at all.

The "underpaid teacher" is a myth spread by their union reps looking to get their members raises. Which is fine, it their job to do so. But its just not true. (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm)

I agree with this statement. I have a few friends who had great regular careers and 2 of them gave up their jobs to become teachers. The reason they did was the free time and pay. They started off making over $35K a year and max out at $75K. Plus if they coach a sport they can make an extra $3K to $7K a year per sport. So one of them coaches football and baseball (2 higher paying sports ) and he makes an extra $10K a year. The free time they spoke of is pretty good. They both work at the same high school. They both start school at 7:40 and school ends at 2:30. They get 1 free period a day each (all teachers do in this school and I would bet is the norm) They also get their normal 30 minute lunch. They have both said they basically work a 7 hour work day and have about 1 hour and 20 minutes of free term per day. Then you add in every weekend off, all holidays off, an extra week for xmas break and spring break and the full summer off. Not to mention they get 6 sick day per semester and 3 personal days. Thats a lot of free time. Another thing they get is, if they dont use those personal days or sick days they get a settlement payment for those days when they retire. Dont forget they also get some of the best medical benefits the rest of their lives.

Btw They both own summer businesses. One builds decks and pools and the other owns a landscaping business. So they make more money now then they did before with more free time,

[Bulldogcakes]

For the sake of predictability I'll post the liberal think-tank response to your conservative think-tank opinion - Jay Greene’s persistent misuse of data for teacher pay comparisons (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_teacher_pay_comparisons). The main criticism, I think, of Greene's analysis is that, while cops and firefighters get compensated for overtime, (I've had a few friends and most of the seven cops I was locked in a witness room with in DC for three days made more money for the year from overtime - arrests at the end of a shift and court appearances - than from regular pay), teachers's salaries, according to the source Greene uses, do not factor in the time teachers spend grading papers and reading shitty papers at home, preparing lesson plans and participating in extracurricular school activities.

Fine. If you want to go there, I'll throw back all the vacation time Teachers get that the occupations Greene compared them to (Biologists, Dentists, Computer scientists, etc) don't get. 2 weeks Christmas, 2 weeks for Easter and ever other Monday most of the year. Plus sick days and personal days. Add it all up, and you get about 7 1/2 month work year (Sweet! where do I sign up?). So if you want to compare apples to apples, lets start there. Then we can add your overtime (BTW-many conscientious teachers do grade papers at home, many others do not. Its also unquantified, so its useless in economic terms. But lets use it anyway) say its 2-4 hours per week on average. That gives you an extra 1-2 weeks annually and we're still around an 8 month work year, and I used the 9 month figure for comparison.

EDIT-If Weeka's 10-15 is the norm and not the exception (he's a first year teacher) you're back to around 9 months. Which is the number I used anyway.

BTW-I hope none of the teachers reading this take this as an attack on their profession, because again, it's not my intent and I have fond memories of some dedicated teachers who really made an impact on me. I'm just talking pure economics. The "Underpaid teacher" is a mantra that gets repeated over and over and I just don't think it holds up under scrutiny. I also suspect that the more Teachers feel unappreciated/undervalued, the less likely they are to do their best work, and we need all the education we can get in this country.

[Bulldogcakes]

BDC, i know this isn't your quote but from something you quoted, but i don't agree with this statement at all. saying teachers don't have a lot of training or expertise is a load of shit. to be certified as a teacher in NYS, you must observe in a classroom for at least 100 hours while taking education classes, then student teach for 6 months unpaid. (actually paying for it in tuition). then within five years of being certified, you must complete your masters degree in either education or the field you are teaching. i have just finished 6 1/2 years of school to become a teacher and have my masters in education. i don't think the "average" biologist, mechanical engineer or chemist has a masters degree (i could be wrong).

i also agree with what yerdaddy says about time spent out of school preparing lessons and reading "shitty" papers is not accounted for in the hours worked. i am at school everyday from 7-4:30 everyday equaling roughly 45 hours a week. i then spend at least 10 to 15 hours a week outside of school doing work at home. that equals up to 60 hours a week. im not saying i am underpaid, i am very happy with my contract, but i don' think a lot of people realize how much time teachers put into their work and they should be compensated accordingly.

i am also glad to be in the NYS education system because they have some of the best benefits in the country. i have friends working in the south that are making less than $25,000 a year. the northeastern states pay a lot more than most areas in the country.

Again, I have tons of respect for teachers that take their jobs seriously. The post was mostly an economics comparison and partially directed at what I think is misinformation spread by the union leaders, not directed at any of the members. But again, its their job to get you guys every cent and I expect them to frame the debate in their favor. I just wish people wouldn't accept what the union says as gospel, they're a special interest group just like any other. Also, I know you recently became a teacher. Your workload might have more to do with the fact that you're just starting out, and need to do a lot of prep work for lessons that more experienced teachers have down pat. Correct me (Grade me?!) if I'm wrong about that.

[Yerdaddy]

We really only work 180 days a year...that's right less then half the year. The teachers who can relate and are understand are the teachers that students respect. While you cant be overly relaxed, you need to know when to dray the line.

I work for an okay public school in Queens. Started out with 47,000 and im working on the masters and cerdits above that. The more schooling, the more $$

While I will always want more money, I think im paid for the service I provide.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9959/planestrains18td2.gif

[Yerdaddy]

Fine. If you want to go there, I'll throw back all the vacation time Teachers get that the occupations Greene compared them to (Biologists, Dentists, Computer scientists, etc) don't get. 2 weeks Christmas, 2 weeks for Easter and ever other Monday most of the year. Plus sick days and personal days. Add it all up, and you get about 7 1/2 month work year (Sweet! where do I sign up?). So if you want to compare apples to apples, lets start there. Then we can add your overtime (BTW-many conscientious teachers do grade papers at home, many others do not. Its also unquantified, so its useless in economic terms. But lets use it anyway) say its 2-4 hours per week on average. That gives you an extra 1-2 weeks annually and we're still around an 8 month work year, and I used the 9 month figure for comparison.

EDIT-If Weeka's 10-15 is the norm and not the exception (he's a first year teacher) you're back to around 9 months. Which is the number I used anyway.

BTW-I hope none of the teachers reading this take this as an attack on their profession, because again, it's not my intent and I have fond memories of some dedicated teachers who really made an impact on me. I'm just talking pure economics. The "Underpaid teacher" is a mantra that gets repeated over and over and I just don't think it holds up under scrutiny. I also suspect that the more Teachers feel unappreciated/undervalued, the less likely they are to do their best work, and we need all the education we can get in this country.

The teachers on here can speak for themselves because I can't even remember my address back in the States but I think this is a gross understatement. Overseas, teaching English is the top job for travelers and ex-pats and even teaching conversational English requires about a half hour of prep for an hour of lesson, and the friends of mine who taught grammar spent nearly as much time grading as they did in class. American teachers will have to speak for themselves on this issue though.

[RoseBlood]

BDC, i know this isn't your quote but from something you quoted, but i don't agree with this statement at all. saying teachers don't have a lot of training or expertise is a load of shit. to be certified as a teacher in NYS, you must observe in a classroom for at least 100 hours while taking education classes, then student teach for 6 months unpaid. (actually paying for it in tuition). then within five years of being certified, you must complete your masters degree in either education or the field you are teaching. i have just finished 6 1/2 years of school to become a teacher and have my masters in education. i don't think the "average" biologist, mechanical engineer or chemist has a masters degree (i could be wrong).

i am also glad to be in the NYS education system because they have some of the best benefits in the country. i have friends working in the south that are making less than $25,000 a year. the northeastern states pay a lot more than most areas in the country.

I agree weeka, actually it's not a matter of agreeing as you can't argue facts. My cousin is a teacher on Long Island and she's told me the same stuff you posted. New York State does pay more then other states but they also have stricter educational requirements. There are some area's in the country where you might not even need a bachelors to teach some elementary ed, where here I believe you are now required to earn your Masters. I am not sure, so I apologize if I'm spreading false info. Again, I'm not positive with this but I believe city schools, private/parochial schools pay significantly less but also don't hold the same educational requirements as NYS public school teachers, I'm not sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No disrepect to lawyers or doctors but teachers do make significantly less then them, considering they have to go onto graduate school, maybe I'm not taking into account the salaries of those who do hold higher degrees. I'm sure the numbers BDC quoted is including all the teachers out there, even the ones with minimal education. With teaching, the further your education the higher your earning potential.. look at how much principals make!

Regardless, never get into a field for the money, you will make yourself miserable and make the ones you are suppose to be serving miserable as well. I wish my high school history teacher was as cool as weeka.

[weekapaugjz]

I wish my high school history teacher was as cool as weeka.

:wub: