THE WAR: A Ken Burns Film

[SinA]

Starts tonight on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/thewar/



I've got it set on the DVR, and I intend to watch it... although on my own time. I know someone who worked on the DVD production who says it's really good but not without bias, but I think we all know what to expect from Ken Burns.

I know there are other documentary buffs here. Anyone else gonna watch this?

[TeeBone]

Just set the DVR......thanks for the Heads-Up.

[TeeBone]

Screw Ken Burns, Are you watching the Family Guy's Star Wars episode?

Funny as hell.

[Ay Kay Forty2]

my dad dvr'd The War. Kinda interested to just check it out. But, when you see one documentary about WW2 in high school, you think you've seen 'em all.

[Yerdaddy]

Starts tonight on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/thewar/



I've got it set on the DVR, and I intend to watch it... although on my own time. I know someone who worked on the DVD production who says it's really good but not without bias, but I think we all know what to expect from Ken Burns.

I know there are other documentary buffs here. Anyone else gonna watch this?

Is he going to cover-up the fact that he sold cans of three-eyed sardines to the German Luftwafe from his plant in Springfield?

I seriously don't know Burns had biases. What are they?

[Thrice]

Is he going to cover-up the fact that he sold cans of three-eyed sardines to the German Luftwafe from his plant in Springfield?

I seriously don't know Burns had biases. What are they?

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid%3A540532

Unlike what KenBurnsHatesMexicans.com implies, I don't think Ken Burns hates Mexicans. No, hating Mexicans or other Latinos would mean giving them some amount of thought in the first place. From all indications, Latinos and Mexicans are invisible to Burns and, therefore, unworthy of mention in his newest documentary, The War.

Up to 750,000 Mexican American men served in World War II, earning more Medals of Honor and other decorations in proportion to their numbers than any other ethnic group.

That deserves more than a passing mention which, apparently, is all Burns does of Mexican/Latino Americans in his 15 hour mini-series.

[Yerdaddy]

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5838/blazingsaddles198uw6.jpg`

Ken Burns Johnson: "Alright, we'll give some airtime to the blacks and the japs, but we don't want the Mexicans!"

I'm not buying it. If it were a documentary about minority contributions to the war and Latinos were ignored then that could be construed as deliberate and unfair. But it's about people in general in WWII and so it can't possibly cover every minority group's stories. Dolphins were used in WWII to detect and dismantle underwater mines but you don't see them swimming around with placards shouting "KEN BURNS LET THEM SQUEEK!"

I figure there are a lot of Latino groups feeling pissed off about the rising level of anti-Mexican sentiment as "the immigration issue" has become so prominent and so hostile towards them, and it would probably help their cause if Burns' movie told of their contribution to the war. But it's not his responsibility to do that. It sounds to me like a handful of Latino groups are just lobbying to get in a Ken Burns film, but not because they necessarily belong in it or because he deliberately excludes them. I think it would be a good addition to the film, but what they're doing is bullshit.

[Yerdaddy]

I'm still in the land of sound-free computers - somebody watch this parody of Ken Burns and tell me if it's funny.

The Old Negro Space Program

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T6xJzAYYrX8"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T6xJzAYYrX8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Thrice]

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5838/blazingsaddles198uw6.jpg`

Ken Burns Johnson: "Alright, we'll give some airtime to the blacks and the japs, but we don't want the Mexicans!"

I'm not buying it. If it were a documentary about minority contributions to the war and Latinos were ignored then that could be construed as deliberate and unfair. But it's about people in general in WWII and so it can't possibly cover every minority group's stories. Dolphins were used in WWII to detect and dismantle underwater mines but you don't see them swimming around with placards shouting "KEN BURNS LET THEM SQUEEK!"

I figure there are a lot of Latino groups feeling pissed off about the rising level of anti-Mexican sentiment as "the immigration issue" has become so prominent and so hostile towards them, and it would probably help their cause if Burns' movie told of their contribution to the war. But it's not his responsibility to do that. It sounds to me like a handful of Latino groups are just lobbying to get in a Ken Burns film, but not because they necessarily belong in it or because he deliberately excludes them. I think it would be a good addition to the film, but what they're doing is bullshit.

Right because Dolphins had the same effect on the war that 750K Mexican/Latino American men did. I haven't seen the doc so I can't comment on the content but reading about it there appears to be a large segment focusing on Blacks and the inherent racism that they had to deal with. Is Ken Burns saying that only Blacks had to deal with racism in the military? To, apparently, ignore the 750K Latino soldiers and focus only on the 1M Black soldiers racial struggle does smack of deliberate and unfair ignorance whether you buy it or not. Burns himself chose to showcase the blatant racism that was ever-present in the military and country in general so to say it isn't his responsibility to include the mistreatment of the 2nd largest group of minority soldiers is ludicrous.

Let's turn the tables. If Burns chose to ignore Black soldiers and only dealt with Mexican American soldiers would YOU consider it a complete and accurate telling of WW2 America, especially if there was a segment of the film dedicated to racism and how it effected non-white soldiers?

[A.J.]

I missed it last night so don't tell me how it ends.

[A.J.]

Right because Dolphins had the same effect on the war that 750K Mexican/Latino American men did. I haven't seen the doc so I can't comment on the content but reading about it there appears to be a large segment focusing on Blacks and the inherent racism that they had to deal with. Is Ken Burns saying that only Blacks had to deal with racism in the military? To, apparently, ignore the 750K Latino soldiers and focus only on the 1M Black soldiers racial struggle does smack of deliberate and unfair ignorance whether you buy it or not. Burns himself chose to showcase the blatant racism that was ever-present in the military and country in general so to say it isn't his responsibility to include the mistreatment of the 2nd largest group of minority soldiers is ludicrous.

Let's turn the tables. If Burns chose to ignore Black soldiers and only dealt with Mexican American soldiers would YOU consider it a complete and accurate telling of WW2 America, especially if there was a segment of the film dedicated to racism and how it effected non-white soldiers?


Does he mention the Asian-American soldiers who were only able to fight in Europe (Sen. Daniel Inoyue of Hawaii was one) and the Navajo Codetalkers?

[Thrice]

Does he mention the Asian-American soldiers who were only able to fight in Europe (Sen. Daniel Inoyue of Hawaii was one) and the Navajo Codetalkers?

Right before and after the dolphin segment.

[Yerdaddy]

Not only are dolphins not our species but they don't even inhabit space that was threatened by the Axis Powers. The Nazis weren't going to put them in concentration tanks, but they helped us anyway and won medals for their contribution. Who are you to say they don't deserve mention in a documentary? The point is: who says which group's contribution was so great that to not be mentioned in a documentary is an insult to that group?

Let's say we limit it to humans then and Burns profiles blacks and Latinos. Has he insulted the 3rd largest minority in the war? Where is the cut-off for obligatory mention in any documentary? And who gets to decide that if the director isn't free to choose his own subject?

Furthermore, to impose subjects on Burns' movies is anathema to his style, which is what makes them so popular in the first place. His style is to film personal photos, relics and letters of ordinary participants of the subject and tell their stories, which wouldn't make any history books, slowly and methodically, to take the viewer into their lives. That's what makes them so popular and their popularity is the reason he's able to make epic-length documentaries. But if interested groups are allowed to insist he include their subjects then you altar the whole thing and threaten to ruin it's appeal. What would be the point of that? Fairness? Political correctness?

And if he included Latinos and not blacks I wouldn't have a problem with it either. I might even think it was more interesting because I've seen a documentary or two about blacks in WWII and the conditions they faced. But I'm also educated enough to know that if blacks were discriminated against but contributed to the war effort then Latinos and other groups experienced the same. And if someone takes the time to use one group to go into depth about just what it was like to be in that sitiation and how it worked then that's just as valuable a contribution to the subject as a cavalcade of discriminated groups of WWII. I don't need it spelled out for me. If other Americans do that doesn't make it Ken Burns' responsibility to educate them.

What you're talking about is political correctness - imposing sensitivity reqirements on a private individual - an artist - and it's not legitimate, nor is the criticism of the guy justified.

[Thrice]

Not only are dolphins not our species but they don't even inhabit space that was threatened by the Axis Powers. The Nazis weren't going to put them in concentration tanks, but they helped us anyway and won medals for their contribution. Who are you to say they don't deserve mention in a documentary? The point is: who says which group's contribution was so great that to not be mentioned in a documentary is an insult to that group?

Let's say we limit it to humans then and Burns profiles blacks and Latinos. Has he insulted the 3rd largest minority in the war? Where is the cut-off for obligatory mention in any documentary? And who gets to decide that if the director isn't free to choose his own subject?

Furthermore, to impose subjects on Burns' movies is anathema to his style, which is what makes them so popular in the first place. His style is to film personal photos, relics and letters of ordinary participants of the subject and tell their stories, which wouldn't make any history books, slowly and methodically, to take the viewer into their lives. That's what makes them so popular and their popularity is the reason he's able to make epic-length documentaries. But if interested groups are allowed to insist he include their subjects then you altar the whole thing and threaten to ruin it's appeal. What would be the point of that? Fairness? Political correctness?

And if he included Latinos and not blacks I wouldn't have a problem with it either. I might even think it was more interesting because I've seen a documentary or two about blacks in WWII and the conditions they faced. But I'm also educated enough to know that if blacks were discriminated against but contributed to the war effort then Latinos and other groups experienced the same. And if someone takes the time to use one group to go into depth about just what it was like to be in that sitiation and how it worked then that's just as valuable a contribution to the subject as a cavalcade of discriminated groups of WWII. I don't need it spelled out for me. If other Americans do that doesn't make it Ken Burns' responsibility to educate them.

What you're talking about is political correctness - imposing sensitivity reqirements on a private individual - an artist - and it's not legitimate, nor is the criticism of the guy justified.

When dealing with art it's impossible to bend the artist's work to your will without distorting his original intention. So I honestly can't in good conscience say that I would condone or advocate changing anything that Burns has created regardless of how I feel. His art is his art and I can't expect his views to necessarily represent the whole truth. In the end a documentary is just another movie directed by a man with his own personal views.

On a much larger scale Burns's work is just a symptom of a disease. And while I do think that it helps to fuel an anti-Mexican sentiment, a sentiment that is like a fire that grows hotter each day, by ignoring certain issues I can't and won't say he should change even a frame of his movie.

I take umbrage with popular culture and most classroom history books' forsaking of all the sacrifice that non-black or white soldiers went through during that war. Is it politically correct to ask for another story to be told beyond what black and white soldiers did during WW2? Maybe. Does that make it wrong to ask for it? Absolutely not.

I can't hold Burns to a standard that just about every other WW2 documentary or war movie in the history of the United States has failed to live up to so I won't. But to act as if Americans in general have anything more than a rudimentary knowledge of the non-black or white soldier and what he experienced in WW2 could not be more wrong. We don't know and we don't care to know.

[Yerdaddy]

When dealing with art it's impossible to bend the artist's work to your will without distorting his original intention. So I honestly can't in good conscience say that I would condone or advocate changing anything that Burns has created regardless of how I feel. His art is his art and I can't expect his views to necessarily represent the whole truth. In the end a documentary is just another movie directed by a man with his own personal views.

On a much larger scale Burns's work is just a symptom of a disease. And while I do think that it helps to fuel an anti-Mexican sentiment, a sentiment that is like a fire that grows hotter each day, by ignoring certain issues I can't and won't say he should change even a frame of his movie.

I take umbrage with popular culture and most classroom history books' forsaking of all the sacrifice that non-black or white soldiers went through during that war. Is it politically correct to ask for another story to be told beyond what black and white soldiers did during WW2? Maybe. Does that make it wrong to ask for it? Absolutely not.

I can't hold Burns to a standard that just about every other WW2 documentary or war movie in the history of the United States has failed to live up to so I won't. But to act as if Americans in general have anything more than a rudimentary knowledge of the non-black or white soldier and what he experienced in WW2 could not be more wrong. We don't know and we don't care to know.

I agree but since I've never seen a country that isn't the same or worse I've just lumped it into my view that humans are just nasty petty little creatures with little more regard for the moral principles they invented than a cornered rat. We're a virus really. I've classified us. That's why a dolphin should be elected President. Dolphins are way cool.

[Thrice]

I agree but since I've never seen a country that isn't the same or worse I've just lumped it into my view that humans are just nasty petty little creatures with little more regard for the moral principles they invented than a cornered rat. We're a virus really. I've classified us. That's why a dolphin should be elected President. Dolphins are way cool.

Better than the ostrich we have in office now, that's for damn sure.

[barjockey]

I just caught the 1st part on 132 wliw

I'm really liking it. Didnt realize why we were so pissed at the Japs.

[barjockey]

I like Lowell Thomas' voice on those movitone reels

[torker]

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/43/03/23310343.jpg

[barjockey]

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/43/03/23310343.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:
Send yourself to the big prize closet