2007 Heisman Trophy Thread

[Fezticle98]

I figured maybe this is worth it's own thread, outside the college football thread. Narrow the focus down to the Heisman Trophy race. It will give everyone a chance to pimp their candidate and keep updated with the goings-on. As if we actually have anything to do with it.

I'm a Colt Brennan supporter. Mainly it's a homer-pick because I used to live in Hawaii and have long followed the Bows/Warriors.

He started off great against lowly Northern Colorado: 34-40, 416, 6-0. The completions and yardage set Hawaii records for a half (he didn't take a snap in the second half). The 6 TDs tied Nick Rolovich's school record for a half. 63-6 Hawaii.

Too early for anyone to win the Heisman, but not too early to lose it. You've got to eliminate Mike Hart and Chad Henne, IMO. I know Chad Henne was a longshot at best, but still. Not Mike Hart's fault they lost, he played great, but no team that loses to a 1AA opponent will have a Heisman winner.

Anyone else eliminated by injury, embarassing loss, et al?

[Fallon]

Billy Flutie, BC third string QB/WR.

[Dudeman]

"DeSean Jackson now has 6 punt returns for touchdowns on 27 returns ... NCAA record-holders Wes Welker (Texas Tech) had 8 on 152 returns, and Antonio Perkins (Oklahoma) had 8 on 113 returns"

ive posted it elsewhere, but it deserves reposting:
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[PhilDeez]

Don't agree, Hart had a monster game, 188 on 24 carries with 3TDs. The run he made to put Michagen ahead was all heart, ha ha, and a Heisman type moment. Yes the loss was horrible, but if he continues to have games like this and they manage to win the Big 10, he has a shot.
McFadden is a beast. 151, 1TD; and throws a 42yd TD pass. If he has a season remotely similar to last in the SEC it is his hands down.

[weekapaugjz]

ray rice looked fantastic in their game thursday even though it was only against UB.

for my early prediction, im going with steve slaton. he is fucking sick. i hope i get to catch a bunch of WVU games this year, cause that team is exciting to watch.

[Fezticle98]

Tough losses for McFadden and Brian Brohm this week. McFadden played great and Brohm was good, too. Their defenses just let their teams down. Both are still big time contenders, especially McFadden, but a loss this early in the season hurts their chances.

Colt Brennan 26-32 298 2-0 + 3 rushing TDs against UNLV in 3 quarters.

Nice win for Matt Ryan and BC at Georgia Tech this week. Their schedule is starting to look pretty favorable for the rest of the season. @ ND, VT, UMd, Clemson; vs. FSU, Miami. Not easy, but not as daunting as one would've thought. I consider Ryan a darkhorse candidate to get an invite to NY. He'll start piling up more numbers, but the key will be whether BC is for real.

[epo]

I hate to be a dick, but Michael Hart isn't even the best RB in his conference. PJ Hill from Wisconsin (3-0) will get more votes than him. So far Hill has 400 yds & 7 TDs and no loss to a Division 2 school.

Now McFadden.....that kid should be #1 on everybody's list.

[Bama]

I hate to be a dick, but Michael Hart isn't even the best RB in his conference. PJ Hill from Wisconsin (3-0) will get more votes than him. So far Hill has 400 yds & 7 TDs and no loss to a Division 2 school.

Now McFadden.....that kid should be #1 on everybody's list.

McFadden would get my vote. Dude is unstoppable.

[JimBeam]

I think McFadden is the popular pick right now but if Tebow can continue to do what he did yesterday against Tenn ( and I did have questions about how he would be as a passer ) and UF wins it's his award to lose.

Same goes for Booty. If USC goes undefeated it might not matter how spectacular his numbers are and he's got a shot based on what team he plays for and the run they are on ( even if that's not all that fair ). It also depends on if any one of those RB or WRs for that team sets themselves out from the others because then they could split votes.

Brohm is done w/ a loss to an unranked UK team.

Brennan will have some big numbers but I think his schedule will hurt him and that he won't be taken " seriously ".

It's still way too early though.

[Bama]

I think McFadden is the popular pick right now but if Tebow can continue to do what he did yesterday against Tenn ( and I did have questions about how he would be as a passer ) and UF wins it's his award to lose.

Same goes for Booty. If USC goes undefeated it might not matter how spectacular his numbers are and he's got a shot based on what team he plays for and the run they are on ( even if that's not all that fair ). It also depends on if any one of those RB or WRs for that team sets themselves out from the others because then they could split votes.

Brohm is done w/ a loss to an unranked UK team.

Brennan will have some big numbers but I think his schedule will hurt him and that he won't be taken " seriously ".

It's still way too early though.

Tebow's too young. Only a soph. No way he wins it.

[JimBeam]

If Tebow runs and throws his team to an undefeated season him being a sophmore won't matter. Since he's a QB that unwritten rule might not effect him as much as it would a RB/WR.

McFadden's team may have 4 losses by the end of the year so unless he runs for 2500+ yards he's out as much as Brohm is.

I'm not really sure who the standout players on other contenders ( like LSU and OU ) are but I'm sure they'll have somebody in the mix as long as they continue to win.

[Snoogans]

If Tebow runs and throws his team to an undefeated season him being a sophmore won't matter. Since he's a QB that unwritten rule might not effect him as much as it would a RB/WR.

McFadden's team may have 4 losses by the end of the year so unless he runs for 2500+ yards he's out as much as Brohm is.

I'm not really sure who the standout players on other contenders ( like LSU and OU ) are but I'm sure they'll have somebody in the mix as long as they continue to win.

yes it will. Grossman shoulda won it but didnt get votes cause he was a soph and Rice got dicked on votes last year for the same reason. An underclassmen wont win the heisman. Never has, never will.

My personal choice today would be Pat White. Slaton isnt slaton without White drawing away the attention that he does. I want Rice to win, and he has as good as shot as anyone , but right now I'd probably vote Rice 3rd behind Brennan at Hawaii (until they eventually lose) and my main choice as of today, White

[El Mudo]

yes it will. Grossman shoulda won it but didnt get votes cause he was a soph and Rice got dicked on votes last year for the same reason. An underclassmen wont win the heisman. Never has, never will.

My personal choice today would be Pat White. Slaton isnt slaton without White drawing away the attention that he does. I want Rice to win, and he has as good as shot as anyone , but right now I'd probably vote Rice 3rd behind Brennan at Hawaii (until they eventually lose) and my main choice as of today, White



You could make the same argument for Owen Schmitt that you make for Pat White (that he makes Slaton "Slaton")...and if Noel Devine keeps playing the way he does, you can make the same argument for him too

[Bama]

It's gonna be Booty or McFadden.

[El Mudo]

It's gonna be Booty or McFadden.



I concur


But I lean towards Booty because it seems like the Heisman always goes to the number 1 QB on the best pre bowl team

[Fezticle98]

Colt Brennan was out with an ankle injury against Charleston Southern. His Heisman hopes are over. He's going to put up huge numbers, but not as huge as last year. His candidacy was based more on pure numbers due to Hawaii's weak schedule, than anyone else's.

Brennan - done
Brohm - done
Hart - done
McFadden - done (sorry, his team is going to have 4 losses)

[JimBeam]

The talking heads on GameNight say both Hart and Brennan still have a shot although as i said last week Brennan's not gonna get a lot of love due to his team and their schedule.

The difference between Grossman and Tebow is that Tebow has the potential for big rushing numbers to go w/ some passing numbers and that'll make him more attarctive.

And without getting into any anti-conference sentiment you cant compare the running back on a team that played only 2 ranked opponents to the QB of a defending Nat'l Champion team.

Rice wouldn't have won it last year if he was a 4th year senior. It had little to do with his year in college as much as it had to do w/ who he played against.

[Bama]

Congrats to Booty for winning the Heisman.

[Bama]

Congrats to Booty for winning the Heisman.

Nevermind.

He just threw it away vs. Stanford.

McFadden might be the only guy left now.

[TheGameHHH]

I'm supporting Brennan........i have no idea why, i just like watching the kid play. who even gives a shit about the heisman anymore, it basically has no meaning.

[JimBeam]

Yeah w/ Booty now realistically out of the mix and Tebow done ( he might've had a shot if he kept winning and making big plays ) I'm not sure who will get it.

I really don't think they'll give it to a player on a team w/ 2 losses so I think McFadden is out especially with the chance of them losing a few more games.

I dont know any of the players on Oh St or Cal but I'm guessing if they stay this way one of them will get consdieration.

Ditto w/ somebody on LSU. I'm sure Flynn won't win it but maybe one of their RBs or WRs might have a great year.

First time in a long time that I can't think of a pure front-runner.

The thing is Oh St, Cal and LSU could all lose games before the end of the year and who knows what happens then.

[Snoogans]

Can they just give it to LSU's defense?

[Axem Red]

I think it's down to McFadden or Pat White. Both have some pretty serious game when I see them play.

[JimBeam]

The kid from UK is getting some early talk but he's gonna have at least 3 losses when it's all said and done.

ESPN had the QB from BC listed as a candidate so if by some chance they win out and go undefeated he may have a chance regardless of how great his numbers are.

[El Mudo]

Right now? Its Andre Woodson. I think if they beat LSU next week (which is a distinct possibility since LSU's looked kinda shakey the last two weeks, and the games in Lexington) he becomes the clear number 1


White's hurt again, Booty has pissed it away, Brennan's hurt, McFadden and Arkansas have become irrelevant, and there's no big time superstar that you can identify with LSU, except maybe Dorsey or someone else on that D line or Ali Highsmith, but LB's and DT's don't win Heismans


I think its going to come down to Woodson, Matt Ryan, and Groethe from South Florida. It certainly won't be Boeckman from Ohio State, or DeSean Jackson from Cal

[El Mudo]

If Sam Bradford wasn't a true freshman....


Also gotta throw Chase Daniel from Mizzou in there as a darkhorse

[PhishHead]

i know one of these guys is on a losing team but will still get votes and the other should get votes:

Mike Hart - 976 Yards 10 Tds
Rashard Mendenhall - 772 yards 10 tds

[TeeBone]

4 of his 6 next games are all ranked teams. The game against USC was a little bump in the road but he'll be alright.
If he can get out of the season with minimal interceptions and continue his dominance, the trophy is his.
The SEC is the best conference in the nation.

[Fezticle98]

If I was a betting man, I'd take Matt Ryan. I think BC has a realistic chance to run the table and he'll have the requisite stats. Then again, the front-runner seems to change every week.

[joeyballsack]

I think Mike Hart should still be in the running but he doesn't break off 80 yard runs so he probably won't win.

It would be nice if the trend switched from the flashiest player winning to the best player winning.

[Fezticle98]

I think Mike Hart should still be in the running but he doesn't break off 80 yard runs so he probably won't win.

It would be nice if the trend switched from the flashiest player winning to the best player winning.

I don't think there is a trend that it goes to the flashiest player. Troy Smith, Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, not "flashy". Reggie Bush certainly qualifies, but it could easily be argued that he was the best player. If not, it would've been Vince Young, who was equally flashy.

I think the trend is that it goes to the best player on one of the top 2-3 teams. Determining the best player overall is kind of like splitting hairs, so team performance factors in. If anything costs Mike Hart a chance at the Heisman, it's the Wolverines defense and coach laying an egg against App St. and Oregon.

[PhilDeez]

If Arkansas finishes respectable, and McFadden keeps up on a similar pace - he wins. The Heisman also likes to look at career stats weather they admit it or not. Two years in the SEC with these kind of numbers, with 2 separate OCs, this guy will win it.
Ryan has looked good, but played nobody. His stats are severely padded.
Oh yeah, and he has to come to Blacksburg in a week and a half.

[El Mudo]

And he's got to make a little trip down 95 to College Park too

[JimBeam]

It's still kinda " wide " open.

I think Woodson, with the win against LSU, has a great chance if he keeps winning.

Mcfadden, as I've constantly said, is now dead and buried.

I don't think Hart has a chance because of the 2 early losses.

Whether that should matter or not is one question but it will impact his chances.

Booty's done as is the kid from USF.

[buzzard]

deserves consideration

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z82/a1958wil/450WASHINGTON_OREGON_FOOTBALL_ORDR1.jpg

[JimBeam]

A while back I was thinking it was going to be Tebow and I still think that's the case unless somebody from one of the teams that can possibly go undefeated steps up and has a great year.

I think the media's in love w/ Tebow's dual capabilities.

I think barring another loss he's got a 65% chance of winning it.

But fuck me I thought Peyton Manning should've won it his senior year ( oh wait that's right he should've ).

[Fezticle98]

It wasn't pretty, but Matt Ryan and BC just cleared a major hurdle at VA Tech. A couple of heisman type moments in the last 2 minutes, and most important, a W.

[Marc with a c]

they should just give out two next year.

[BMoses]

It wasn't pretty, but Matt Ryan and BC just cleared a major hurdle at VA Tech. A couple of heisman type moments in the last 2 minutes, and most important, a W.

That dude was puking like a Heisman winner

[Fezticle98]

That dude was puking like a Heisman winner

Yeah, they just couldn't stop showing that. They loved it. Fuckin' pricks!

[Fezticle98]

Cya Andre Woodson! Losing at home to a Sylvester Croom coached team? Yikes! The wheels have officially come off the Kentucky train.

[JimBeam]

Now that Woodson's done I think Ryan is in the driver's seat as long as he wins out.

I still think they give it to a 2 loss Tebow over a 1 loss Ryan.

Then again this season is so crazy who knows what else can happen.

[JimBeam]

Well I never got a chance to go back and post again after Tebow lost for a 3rd time so I'm sure his chances of winning are now done.

So who is the realistic choice ?

Is it Ryan from BC ?

I know your numbers don't have to be phenominal to win if you're on a team considered to be great but usually you can't win it with what's perceived as so-so talent and a so-so team.

Gino Torreta won it w/ fairly pedestrian numbers if I recall but he was on an undefeated Miami team and probably got it by reputation.

That same year Jay Barker had very pedestrian numbers and was undefeated but he had one of the best defenses of all times on his side.

I kinda feel bad for whoever wins it becasue I think people, at least for the forseeable future, will view this year's winner as the best of a weak field.

Also with such a tight race the votes become more regional as you might not have many midwestern voters siding with eastern voters and vice versa.

It could be the first time that I ever remember any of the 5 people invited having an actual shot at winning it.

Still a few more weeks for somebody, anybody, to seperate, but if BC loses consider the above points to be even more probable.

[PhilDeez]

McFadden put himself back in longshot contention with 335yd on the ground today against South Carolina. If he puts up monster numbers like this the last 3 weeks (one of those against LSU), who knows. It is a huge reach, but nobody is running away with it.
You have to look at guys like the Ohio St. QB, who just keeps getting it done.
This is a weak, weak year. Teebag will probably come out on top somehow, even with 3 losses.

[Fezticle98]

I think I'm going to just stop trying to figure this out.

Maybe the Heisman ceremony will actually be semi-interesting for once. This year may be seen as a "weak class" but it can't be any worse than last year's.

[epo]

McFadden was nothing short of amazing tonight with that 300+ effort.

[led37zep]

Dixon didn't go crazy big with the yards but 4 TD's, no touchdowns and a win against the #4 ranked team should put him in the forefront for the Heisman this year.

[cougarjake13]

Dixon didn't go crazy big with the yards but 4 TD's, no touchdowns and a win against the #4 ranked team should put him in the forefront for the Heisman this year.

and hopefully he'll start getting some attention b/c i'll be honest b/c i didnt know much about him and i actually watch college football

[bigredd]

Darren McFadden put up 323 yards last night against South Carolina which is not only an Arkansas record but and SEC record. Bo Jackson nor Herschel Walker never rushed for that many yards in a single game. I think D Mac has to be back in the running. No pun intended.

[Fezticle98]

and hopefully he'll start getting some attention b/c i'll be honest b/c i didnt know much about him and i actually watch college football

Agreed. I consider myself a pretty strong college football fan and I couldn't have picked the guy out of a lineup before a couple weeks ago. Must be that East Coast bias. He's definitely a legit contender, but like I said before, I've given up on trying to figure this thing out.

[led37zep]

Agreed. I consider myself a pretty strong college football fan and I couldn't have picked the guy out of a lineup before a couple weeks ago. Must be that East Coast bias. He's definitely a legit contender, but like I said before, I've given up on trying to figure this thing out.

I think a lot of that has to do with the awful deal the Pac-10 signed with Fox Sports. The only reason the ASU/Oregon game was national was due to a last minute deal ESPN/Fox/and the Pac-10 agreed to. The Pac-10 constantly complains about East Coast Bias but does little to promote their conference on the national stage, the fox deal is proof of that.

[JimBeam]

I'll echo Cougar & Fezticle's point that I don't know much about the Oregon QB and I watch and read a lot of college football news.

It deff says a lot about the media coverage because that's usually how you learn about a player that you don't get to see often.

I still haven't looked at his numbers but the fact that he's on a winning team and in the top 5 has to make him the front runner for now pending any other losses.

I don't care how many yards McFadden has he's got no shot at winning the trophy.

If they're gonna give it to a RB w/ 2+ losses it'll go to Mike Hart who's team is actually in contention.

The only possible way I see of Mcfadden even getting invted to the award is if Hart get's bottled up by Oh St, Oregon loses again and Tebow & Woodson lose again and he has a killer game against LSU.

Other than that he's the #3 guy from the SEC alone.

[JimBeam]

Oh boy where do we go now ?

I think Tebow might be back in the driver's seat.

The only other person I could see at this point, if Michigan wins today, is Hart.

I know the voters don't really wanna give it to a guy who's team lost to App St but that may not stop them from voting for him w/o any other choices.

[cougarjake13]

dixon is out with injury so unless he gets a pity vote he's done

so its basically tebow vs hart vs mcfadden

[sailor]

what of chase daniel of missou. after they beat kansas people will have to at least mention him.

[cougarjake13]

what of chase daniel of missou. after they beat kansas people will have to at least mention him.

if they beat kansas then maybe he'll get into the conversation, he probshould be there already but ya know how the media is

[JimBeam]

They were just talking on ESPN College Gameday ( on the radio ) about Tebow as a candidate.

Some of the points made were that he was a sophmore ( as several posters have pointed out ) and that since Archie Griffin was the only guy to win it twice giving it to Tebow, a if UF is good next year, they might be setting him up to win it nxt year ( and possibly again as a senior ).

That logic is ridiculous.

So the best player this year shouldn't win it because maybe he wins it next year ?

He shouldn't win it because some relic is the only guy allowed to win it 2 times ?

What if, God forbid, something happened to Tebow and he never played again after this year would these voters feel good that they gave it to a less deserving player who happened to have been born a few years before Tebow ?

Is that what this award should be about ?

Your birthday and not your numbers and talent ?

The guy's the first player to throw and run for 20 TDs in a season.

That's not just great considering the qulaity of talent he's playing against it's great because it's historic and far more interesting than Archie Griffin's rushing yards in 1974 ( 1,695 ) and 1975 ( 1,450 ).

He only scored 26 TDs in 4 years so ho many could he have scored in either of those Heisman years ? ( Stupid Wikipedia link didnt have the TD totals ).

I guess those numbers were the best of the time but they've been shattered by guys who haven't come close to winning the award.

[cougarjake13]

That's not just great considering the qulaity of talent he's playing against it's great because it's historic and far more interesting than Archie Griffin's rushing yards in 1974 ( 1,695 ) and 1975 ( 1,450 ).

He only scored 26 TDs in 4 years so ho many could he have scored in either of those Heisman years ? ( Stupid Wikipedia link didnt have the TD totals ).

.


man it took me a while to find them but here they are linky (http://rosebowllegends.org/archie-griffin.php)

Griffin really took off by his sophomore season with 1,577 rushing yards and scored eight touchdowns while averaging 6.3 yards per carry. He also started a 31-game streak of running for 100 yards or more (in non-bowl games) in that sophomore year.

A prominent national player going into his junior season, Griffin was spectacular rushing for 1,695 yards and 12 touchdowns. Oddly enough, Griffin dipped his senior year rushing for 1,450 yards and only four scores, but it was enough for his second Heisman Trophy.


so he had

freshman 2
sophmore 8
junior 12
senior 4

[JimBeam]

Good find Cougar thanks.

I went through the first 10 links on the topic and after reading about how he reffers to himself as Heisman Winner Archie Griffin I couldn't stand to read any more.

So his numbers aren't that great.

The 31 games in a row shouldn't have mattered because that would mean they were counting other years ( strangely his sophmore and possibly freshman seasons ) for an award that's based on the current year.

If this logic was still around than Peyton Manning would've, as he should've, beaten Charles Woodson for the Heisman.

[JimBeam]

I'm looking at the kid from Kansas' numbers and if they go undefeated, or even if they only make it to the Big 12 title game, he should have a shot at the award.

I know he's only a sophmore, like TeBow, but the numbers ae what they are.

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
228 360 2900 63.3 8.06 82 30 4 18 156.28

[cougarjake13]

Good find Cougar thanks.

I went through the first 10 links on the topic and after reading about how he reffers to himself as Heisman Winner Archie Griffin I couldn't stand to read any more.

So his numbers aren't that great.

The 31 games in a row shouldn't have mattered because that would mean they were counting other years ( strangely his sophmore and possibly freshman seasons ) for an award that's based on the current year.

If this logic was still around than Peyton Manning would've, as he should've, beaten Charles Woodson for the Heisman.


yeh i getting tired of seeing that shit and im the only 2 time heisman winner blah blah blah

[Snoogans]

RAY RICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know I sound like a homer, but not many others have done much to put themselves far ahead of Rice, and he is the ONLY thing Rutgers has had all year.

I would actually give it to Crabtree, but since no Freshmen will ever win the heisman, I would vote for Rice.

[Freitag]

Two of the finalists are going to be Tebow and Patrick White.

[Freitag]

RAY RICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know I sound like a homer, but not many others have done much to put themselves far ahead of Rice, and he is the ONLY thing Rutgers has had all year.

I would actually give it to Crabtree, but since no Freshmen will ever win the heisman, I would vote for Rice.

This is hysterical, considering your Anti-Namath HOF stance. Thanks for the chuckle.

The closest Rice is going to get to the Heisman is sitting in Piscataway while the presentation is going on.

[Snoogans]

This is hysterical, considering your Anti-Namath HOF stance. Thanks for the chuckle.

The closest Rice is going to get to the Heisman is sitting in Piscataway while the presentation is going on.

waht would this have anything to do with the Heisman, how I feel about Joe Namath? Rice has good numbers and has been the only reason they even have 1 win
what the fuck are you talkin about?

[PhishHead]

my 3 votes are:

Crabtree (wont win but should)
Rice (look at his stats and how much rutgers has used him he deserves it, and tenbats if you think otherwise you need to watch more college football and watch how much rutgers rely on him, if they didnt have him they wouldnt have won any games)
McFadden (they suck without him)

Tebow deserves consideration but they did the same thing last year with Leak, florida just has amazing talent.

Dixon would have won but got injured

White deserves consideration as well.

[Snoogans]

and Namath WASN'T THAT GOOD. I'm sorry, but you can't be in the HOF and have numbers that close to Kenny OBrien or have more INTs then TDs. BULLSHIT

[Freitag]

waht would this have anything to do with the Heisman, how I feel about Joe Namath? Rice has good numbers and has been the only reason they even have 1 win
what the fuck are you talkin about?

You're confusing "Team MVP" with "Best Player In College Football".

I'm not denying that Ray Rice is an excellent football player and his team's MVP. But nowhere near the best player in college football.

[Snoogans]

You're confusing "Team MVP" with "Best Player In College Football".

I'm not denying that Ray Rice is an excellent football player and his team's MVP. But nowhere near the best player in college football.

it isnt best college football player dickbag. Its MOST OUTSTANDING. It doesnt necc mean stats just how MVP doesnt necc have to mean stats, thats why how the team fares has so much to do with who gets considered. Do you even watch college football?

[JimBeam]

Leak didn't put up the numbers that Tebow has in the same system.

Tebow now has the most single season rushing TDs of anybody in SEC history.

That includes the likes of Herschell Walker, Bo Jackson, and Emitt Smith just to name a few.

I don't know why everybody is still harping on McFadden.
He hasn't done anything when it matters.

He's still hanging on by his pre-season hype.

[Snoogans]

1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB Jr. 1,482
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR Jr. 2,077
1992 Gino Torretta Miami (Fla) QB Sr. 1,400
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB Sr. 2,310
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB Jr. 1,743
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB Sr. 1,460
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB Sr. 1,363
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan CB Jr. 1,815
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB Sr. 2,355
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB Sr. 2,042
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB Sr. 1,628
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB Sr. 770
2002 Carson Palmer USC QB Sr. 1,328
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB Jr. 1,481
2004 Matt Leinart USC QB Jr. 1,325
2005 Reggie Bush USC RB Jr. 2,541
2006 Troy Smith Ohio State QB Sr. 2,540

how many of these guys were actually the best player in college football, a few at most? Maybe 5 i see looking quick might have been, only 2 i know definately were

[PhishHead]

Leak didn't put up the numbers that Tebow has in the same system.

Tebow now has the most single season rushing TDs of anybody in SEC history.

That includes the likes of Herschell Walker, Bo Jackson, and Emitt Smith just to name a few.

I don't know why everybody is still harping on McFadden.
He hasn't done anything when it matters.

He's still hanging on by his pre-season hype.

did Leak win a national championship?

Tebow has put up amazing numbers but anyone QB on that team would put up good numbers is my point.

Look at McFaddens stats and look what that team would do without him.

Its the same argument for Pat White WVU would be HORRIBLE without him evident by the loss to USF.

and Crabtree has the most TDs ever for a freshman so you can make the argument that he deserves to be heisman too. He leads the nation in receptions, yards and TD's.

[Freitag]

it isnt best college football player dickbag. Its MOST OUTSTANDING. It doesnt necc mean stats just how MVP doesnt necc have to mean stats, thats why how the team fares has so much to do with who gets considered. Do you even watch college football?

Yeah. I do. And Rice's numbers have fallen drastically since the first half of the season. He walked all over creampuffs and then his numbers fell when he started against real competition.

He's not even the most outstanding player in the Big East, let alone college football. For you to even suggest Rice over White is freakin' laughable.

[JimBeam]

The Heisman has nothing to do w/ the National Champion.

Firstly it's given out almost a month before there is a champion so I'm not sure what your point about Leak was.

As far as McFadden being the best on his team every team has somebody that's the best.

Should we give it to a guy on Vandy because w/out him his team wouldnt have 5 wins ?

The award is lagely for the best player on one of the best teams.

If you want to throw an idea of excitement into it what better than a QB that throws and passes for 20+ tds ?

Surely better than a RB who might've had 200+ yards against Norfolk St.

[Snoogans]

Yeah. I do. And Rice's numbers have fallen drastically since the first half of the season. He walked all over creampuffs and then his numbers fell when he started against real competition.

He's not even the most outstanding player in the Big East, let alone college football. For you to even suggest Rice over White is freakin' laughable.

thank you for proving you dont watch college football. Ray Rice numbers game by game to show how much better Rice's first half was:

date opp res car yards
8/30 Buffalo W 38-3 25 184
9/7 Navy W 41-24 37 175
9/15 Norfolk State W 59-0 12 72
9/29 Maryland L 34-24 21 97
10/6 Cincinnati L 28-23 34 94
10/13 @Syracuse W 38-14 36 196
10/18 South Florida W 30-27 39 181
10/27 West Virginia L 31-3 30 142 yea lost 31-3 and rice STILL put up 142
11/3 @Connecticut L 38-19 21 116
11/9 @Army W 41-6 34 243 school record for yards, thats for any player any game any opponent
11/17 Pittsburgh W 20-16 26 112

second half of that looks alot better to me. I dont know, 181 on the then #2, 142 when the whole team did shit against WV, over 100 against Uconn, ranked. Just terrible in the second half against the better teams

do yourself a favor, for once, and just admit you are wrong on this. Move and, and save some face

[Snoogans]

The Heisman has nothing to do w/ the National Champion.

Firstly it's given out almost a month before there is a champion so I'm not sure what your point about Leak was.

As far as McFadden being the best on his team every team has somebody that's the best.

Should we give it to a guy on Vandy because w/out him his team wouldnt have 5 wins ?

The award is lagely for the best player on one of the best teams.

If you want to throw an idea of excitement into it what better than a QB that throws and passes for 20+ tds ?

Surely better than a RB who might've had 200+ yards against Norfolk St.

read above

[Snoogans]

rutgers could end up winning 8 games and getting a solid bowl, without rice, they are lucky to win 3 games

[Snoogans]

White is a better player then Rice, thats prob true, esp at ta more important position. but with the added talent EVERYWHERE else that WV has, you are INSANE if you think White was more important to his team then Rice was. White's back up is a pretty decent right handed version of white, theyd still have slaton, and i personally think devine will be better then slayton.

And you still havent explained how any of this has to do with me thinking namath was incredibly over rated and shouldnt be in the HOF

[JimBeam]

First of all jerkoff I was reffering to Phish's point about Leak so keep your panties unbunched.

I looked at your list and w/ the exception of maybe Detmer everyone of those guys played on a team that played top 25 competition for most of the year.

While most of those players might not have had the greatest statistical years they had the fortune of being on good teams and were either perceived to have led those teams or were a major part of their success in the national picture.

As somebody else pointed out Rice probably isnt even the best player in his conference let alone in the entire country.

[Snoogans]

First of all jerkoff I was reffering to Phish's point about Leak so keep your panties unbunched.

I looked at your list and w/ the exception of maybe Detmer everyone of those guys played on a team that played top 25 competition for most of the year.

While most of those players might not have had the greatest statistical years they had the fortune of being on good teams and were either perceived to have led those teams or were a major part of their success in the national picture.

As somebody else pointed out Rice probably isnt even the best player in his conference let alone in the entire country.

i edited out the douche, cause it was unnecc. Im sorry for that.

AND ITS NOT BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE. ITS MOST OUTSTANDING. Rice was easily the single most important player to his team in the big east, possibly in the country. It was Teel who padded stats against the garbage teams for the most part. Rice got his numbers at times when he was the ONLY thing that gave them a chance to win against a good team. That IS the point of the heisman. and you did take a shot at rice in your post with the norfolk st comment and how he ran up 200 yards in stats against them, when he actually had 72 cause teel was putting up BS stats

[Snoogans]

Also, the best player in the country has ZERO chance of winning the Heisman this year. Cause he is a freshman

[JimBeam]

A belated aplogy to you Snoogans for my comment about your preceived douche comment.

LOL

My only point about the award as far as it not being about the best player on team that'd be worse w/out him is that every team would be worse w/out their best player regardless of how many great players they have.

Would UF still be winning if they didn't have Tebow at QB ?
Possibly but probably not in the same manner as he adds a new dimension like the old option QBs of the late 80's and early 90's.
The only thing is he's a better passer than most of those guys ever where.

Everybody seems to be back on Mcfadden's bandwagon because he finally had a good game against a decent team.

But I still don't see how he's the most outstanding player if tebow has more rushing Tds than he does and surely has more passing TDs.
Tebow touches the ball on 99.8 percent of the teams offensive plays and doesn't get the advantage of going to the bench after 3 runs.
Tebow's combined passing and rushing stats dwarf anything McFadden has done much as they've dwarfed the historical SEC stats.

I'm sure Mcfadden's got the brighter NFL future of the 2 players and may be the #1 pick in the draft but that shouldn't be why he wins the Heisman trophy.

Let's not forget he fumbled 3 time yesterday ( recovered 2 ) including the opening kickoff where his defense bailed him out by holding LSU to only a FG.

If you're not going to give it to whoever comes out victorious between the Kansas and Mizzou QBs then you have to give it to Tebow.

[patsopinion]

whens the next florida game on?

[JimBeam]

I think they're playing FSU today.

It might be on CBS or it might be an ESPN game.

[Kindred Spirit]

I'm from Missouri and hope Chase Daniel's takes the Heisman. He has had a great season. Go MU.....Go Rooster.....Tonights game will be huge.

[bigredd]

Darren McFadden is hands down the most valuable player in NCAA football. His team, the Arkansas fuckin Razorbacks went to Baton Rouge and beat the #1 ranked LSU Tigers on their home fuckin field. In doing so Darren McFadden rushed for 206 yards, and three touchdowns. Oh yeah, and he passed for 34 yards and another touchdown.

LSU's coach, Les Miles " Certainly, he had a Heisman performance today. McFadden's going to play for decades, for as long as he stays healthy".

[JimBeam]

You know who else beat LSU ?

Andre' Woodson.

He went 21 for 38 w/ 250 yards and 3 TDs as well as one rushing TD.

So why is McFadden any better based on an over-rated LSU team ?

[cougarjake13]

whens the next florida game on?

I think they're playing FSU today.

It might be on CBS or it might be an ESPN game.

5:00 p.m. Florida State Seminoles
12 Florida Gators

on cbs

[sailor]

8-4 teams don't win the heisman

[PhilDeez]

8-4 teams don't win the heisman

Roger Staubach?

[sailor]

Roger Staubach?

actually navy was 9-2 when he won. there have been 6 total with 4 or more losses and only 4 of those heisman winners (http://www.heisman.com/handbook/team-winners.html) were in the past 50-odd years. tim brown in 87 was the most recent. (there were actually 3 in the wacky 80s)

[PhilDeez]

You know who else beat LSU ?

Andre' Woodson.

He went 21 for 38 w/ 250 yards and 3 TDs as well as one rushing TD.

So why is McFadden any better based on an over-rated LSU team ?

McFadden put up better numbers than Tebow did against LSU, and more importantly he single handedly won the game for Arkansas. Tebow gets more touches than McFadden, has a much better all round team, and throws to some of the best receivers in the nation - McFadden is not privileged to the same.

Tebow is great, as is McFadden. I give the nod to McFadden for his performance yesterday, and like it or not the voters do look at the players career and finishing second last year might put him over.

[PhilDeez]

actually navy was 9-2 when he won. there have been 6 total with 4 or more losses and only 4 of those heisman winners (http://www.heisman.com/handbook/team-winners.html) were in the past 50-odd years. tim brown in 87 was the most recent. (there were actually 3 in the wacky 80s)

My apologies, I thought I heard or read that somewhere in the last few weeks. I agree that wins should play into the vote. That is why as much as I like McFadden, his 4 losses are too many as with Tebow. It sucks what happened to Dixon.

[sailor]

My apologies, I thought I heard or read that somewhere in the last few weeks. I agree that wins should play into the vote. That is why as much as I like McFadden, his 4 losses are too many as with Tebow. It sucks what happened to Dixon.

eh, i got lucky and only looked up those stats after i posted about not winning with an 8-4 record. i was actually surprised that there were even that many. maybe you were thinking of paul hornung?

[bigredd]

8-4 teams don't win the heisman

Oddly enough the Heisman is an individual award. A good example of a team award would be a National Championship; the whole team gets rings etc. In the case of the Heisman only Darren McFadden would get the award. McFadden shouldn't be penalized for having a douche bag coach.

[JimBeam]

But Phil where would Kentucky be w/out Woodson ?

And I'm not sure why basing one game agaist an over-rated team should win you the Heisman.

Tebow has done something that nobody in the history of the sport has ever done so how is that not outstanding ?

It's not only outstanding for this season but it's obvioulsy outstanding historically.

There shouldn't be any argument here.

Tebow had his team in contention for the SEC East for all but 2 games when McFadden's team has been out of the SEC West race since practically the start of the season.

As far as people to turn to Tebow had more carried than his own running back and with regard to having more touches goes more responsibility.

I'm not sure why you think UF's WRs are some of the best in the nation.

Percy Harvin is 70th in the nation in receiving yards and Andre Caldwell is 95th.

Several other teams in the SEC East, including Vandy, UK, and Tenn had WRs ranked much higher than that.

And if you really want to talk about a guy who's got no help and still got it done take a look at the numbers for Matt Forte of Tulane ( 2,127 yards and 23 TDs ).

[sailor]

Oddly enough the Heisman is an individual award. A good example of a team award would be a National Championship; the whole team gets rings etc. In the case of the Heisman only Darren McFadden would get the award. McFadden shouldn't be penalized for having a douche bag coach.

wow, really??? the heisman is an individual award, not a team award??? insane!! thanks for being so insightful!!!

[bigredd]

wow, really??? the heisman is an individual award, not a team award??? insane!! thanks for being so insightful!!!

You betcha! Glad to help. Anytime, really. Don't hesitate...I love a good sized font.

[cougarjake13]

But Phil where would Kentucky be w/out Woodson ?

And I'm not sure why basing one game agaist an over-rated team should win you the Heisman.

Tebow has done something that nobody in the history of the sport has ever done so how is that not outstanding ?

It's not only outstanding for this season but it's obvioulsy outstanding historically.

There shouldn't be any argument here.

Tebow had his team in contention for the SEC East for all but 2 games when McFadden's team has been out of the SEC West race since practically the start of the season.

As far as people to turn to Tebow had more carried than his own running back and with regard to having more touches goes more responsibility.

I'm not sure why you think UF's WRs are some of the best in the nation.

Percy Harvin is 70th in the nation in receiving yards and Andre Caldwell is 95th.

Several other teams in the SEC East, including Vandy, UK, and Tenn had WRs ranked much higher than that.

And if you really want to talk about a guy who's got no help and still got it done take a look at the numbers for Matt Forte of Tulane ( 2,127 yards and 23 TDs ).


kinda misleading thou since tebow runs so much where other qb's may stick it out in the pocket a second or 2 longer and find a reciever

[sailor]

kinda misleading thou since tebow runs so much where other qb's may stick it out in the pocket a second or 2 longer and find a reciever

yeah, it seems kinda counter-intuitive to point out a lack of receiving yardage as proof that a qb is good.

[PhilDeez]

But Phil where would Kentucky be w/out Woodson ?

And I'm not sure why basing one game agaist an over-rated team should win you the Heisman.

Tebow has done something that nobody in the history of the sport has ever done so how is that not outstanding ?

It's not only outstanding for this season but it's obvioulsy outstanding historically.

There shouldn't be any argument here.

Tebow had his team in contention for the SEC East for all but 2 games when McFadden's team has been out of the SEC West race since practically the start of the season.

As far as people to turn to Tebow had more carried than his own running back and with regard to having more touches goes more responsibility.

I'm not sure why you think UF's WRs are some of the best in the nation.

Percy Harvin is 70th in the nation in receiving yards and Andre Caldwell is 95th.

Several other teams in the SEC East, including Vandy, UK, and Tenn had WRs ranked much higher than that.

And if you really want to talk about a guy who's got no help and still got it done take a look at the numbers for Matt Forte of Tulane ( 2,127 yards and 23 TDs ).

Wow, you really, really like Tebow.
I am not saying he does not deserve to win, I think there are a handful of deserving candidates this year.
You can't take away what Tebow has accomplished this year, the numbers stand alone. However, he does have 3 losses, he is a sophmore - not that I agree with that hurting him, but it will, and this is just one, of what are sure to be many, year.
McFadden does have 4 losses. He knocked off the #1 team ( I strongly disagree with you about LSU being over rated ), he has put up gawdy numbers two years in a row in the SEC, he does not get as many touches as Tebow, and he is a junior who was runner up last year.
It is much easier for a team to take away the run, take McFadden out, rather than shut down all of Tebow's options.
That said I think Tebow will win, but if Dixon does not go down we are not even having this conversation.

[epo]

I'm not sure why you think UF's WRs are some of the best in the nation.

Percy Harvin is 70th in the nation in receiving yards and Andre Caldwell is 95th.

Several other teams in the SEC East, including Vandy, UK, and Tenn had WRs ranked much higher than that.

Ok, I have no horse in this race, but to claim that Tebow has no WR's is pretty crazy.

Percy Harvin was the #2 overall receiver in the 2006 recruiting class nationally.
Andrew Caldwell was a Parade High School All-American.
Oh and Jarred Fayson was the #3 overall receiver in that 2006 class.

If anything that tells me that Tebow is a great runner and an overrated QB.

[JimBeam]

I didn't say Florida's WRs were awful I just said they weren't as good as Phil was making them sound and pointed out that several SEC teams had WRs with better numbers.

These guys, at least at this point, are not Ike Hilliard and Jacquez Greene.

As far as the ranking of a player in recruiting that essentially means nothing.

If I had a dollar for every player that was highly ranked and never amounted to anything I'd be loaded.

That's not to say, in regards to a whole other argument, that an entire recruting class' ranking doesn't matter.

[PhilDeez]

I didn't say Florida's WRs were awful I just said they weren't as good as Phil was making them sound and pointed out that several SEC teams had WRs with better numbers.

These guys, at least at this point, are not Ike Hilliard and Jacquez Greene.

As far as the ranking of a player in recruiting that essentially means nothing.

If I had a dollar for every player that was highly ranked and never amounted to anything I'd be loaded.

That's not to say, in regards to a whole other argument, that an entire recruting class' ranking doesn't matter.

I think I said Tebow throws to some of the best WR's in the nation. Give me a team that wouldn't accept Harvin or Caldwell. Numbers don't equal talent.

[epo]

I didn't say Florida's WRs were awful I just said they weren't as good as Phil was making them sound and pointed out that several SEC teams had WRs with better numbers.

These guys, at least at this point, are not Ike Hilliard and Jacquez Greene.

As far as the ranking of a player in recruiting that essentially means nothing.

If I had a dollar for every player that was highly ranked and never amounted to anything I'd be loaded.

That's not to say, in regards to a whole other argument, that an entire recruting class' ranking doesn't matter.

How can you say that? Doesn't Caldwell hold the all-time record for career receptions at Florida?

If anything, this crew of receivers shits on wideouts like Hilliard & Greene. Maybe it's just that Tebow isn't a very good passer.

[JimBeam]

The only reason he broke the record is because he stayed for 4 years.

Going into this season he was only 3 ahead of Reidel Anthony ( another I forgot ) and Hilliard and they both only played for 3 years.

Chris Doering was one of their big all time WRs back in th 90's and he was never on anybody's All American team.

I believe that Green, Hilliard and Anthony were All Americans in their careers at some point.

But obvioulsy Tebow doesnt sling it as much as the QBs those guys played with.

[sailor]

If anything that tells me that Tebow is a great runner and an overrated QB.

does he run dog fights as well?

[JimBeam]

So it's the last week to decide for any voters that haven't already voted ( and if anybody submitted their vote more than 3 weeks ago they should lose the privelege ).

I'd like to think that id Chase Daniels has a big game today and they win he'd have to become the favorite.

I couldn't see voting for a guy ( Tebow ) w/ 3 losses IF there was a guy w/ 1 loss, great numbers and has taken his team to the Nat'l Championship game.

With that said if Daniels losses I think Tebow's the obvious choice for reasons previoulsy mentioned several times.

[Fezticle98]

It's being reported that Chase Daniel is among the Finalists.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2007/12/04/chase-daniel-reportedly-heisman-finalist/

If they invite 5, as in most years, the other 4 are likely to be:

Tebow
McFadden
Pat White
Brennan
(possibly Dixon)

I think it is between Tebow and McFadden, with Tebow the likely winner. All logic has gone out the window this year, so why should the Heisman trophy conventions hold true? It has to be a 3 or 4 loss team with a Heisman winner if it is McFadden or Tebow, so why not a sophomore?

I am biased against Tebow and would probably vote for McFadden, but I think he'll win it.

Someone who has a lot of time on there hands should go through the week-by-week favorite for the heisman for the season. I'll start you off...preseason favorite: McFadden. Wouldn't that be something if after all of the shit that went down this season, he ends up winning it?

[TeeBone]

http://oneclicksportsblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tebow-wears-jorts.png

[JimBeam]

Jorts !!

LOL

This writer breaksdown his statistical reasons why Tebow gets his vote :

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=747149

I heard Hosuton Nutt on the radio schilling for his guy, as would be expected, but he wasn;t entirely convincing.

He didn't want to discuss Mcfadden's bad game against Auburn but wanted to talk a lot about a game against a weak South Carolina team that isn't even going to a bowl.

He also mentioned the LSU game as a big game and while it may have been a huge upset for Arkansas, one the earned, it was by no means a big game for them. They'd have still gone to a 3rd tier bowl game regardless of whether they won or not.

I'm also not so excited about a guy winning a Heisman because he had a big game in a spoiler role.

Tebow put up most of his numbers while they were still fighting for an SEC East title but McFadden's SEC chances were done before September ended.

I still think that if that McFadden wins it it's because people didn't want to vote for Tebow because he's a sophmore and that he " could win it next year ".

If any voter ever admitted that out loud they should be stripped of their vote.