Iron Man footage from Comic Con

[Tall_James]

Enjoy it while it lasts, I'm sure it will be pulled shortly....

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[Tenbatsuzen]

Why do I see so much of myself in Tony Stark?

[Tall_James]

Why do I see so much of myself in Tony Stark?

Because you're drunk as you're typing this.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Because you're drunk as you're typing this.

I was thinking more arrogance, but you're right.

"That's how dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far!"

[xample]

Sweet. Iron Man was always one of my faves.

[sr71blackbird]

I gotta see this!!

[booster11373]

Iron Man dont look half bad, Downey Jr looks like a lot of fun in the part of Stark

then followed by The Dark Knight, should be a good summer 2008

[klaus_kinski_Jr]

looks like a blast

[furie]

wow, a comic movie that might have been done right!

[TheMojoPin]

wow, a comic movie that might have been done right!

You don't think any of them have so far?

Looks like Marvel may finally have another decent one on their hands after last 5 or so stunk hard.

[furie]

You don't think any of them have so far?

Looks like Marvel may finally have another decent one on their hands after last 5 or so stunk hard.

as far as marvel goes:
The first X-men was the closest i've seen thus far. all the other x-men were too far off base, fantastic four (both of them) were worthless. the spidermans while entertaining were not all that great.

i could go on and on...

[TheMojoPin]

as far as marvel goes:
The first X-men was the closest i've seen thus far. all the other x-men were too far off base, fantastic four (both of them) were worthless. the spidermans while entertaining were not all that great.

i could go on and on...

Out of curiosity, what did you think the 2nd X-Men movie got wrong? I'm not saying you have to go along with it, but it's generally considered one of the better comic book flicks out there, and even better than the first one.

And what did you think of Batman Begins?

As for the rest, well, I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm the only person that really liked The Hulk and Superman Returns.

[Reephdweller]

That really looks good. As a huge fan of Iron Man I cannot wait for this to come out.

[MadMatt]

NICE!!!

That looks pretty freaking cool. Thanks for the link TJ!

[HBox]

I just checked the IMDB listings and it says the Samuel L. Jackson is playing Nick Fury. Is that right? That's weird but I guess he could pull it off if he could do more than play a parody of himself like he's been doing for a while.

[TheMojoPin]

I just checked the IMDB listings and it says the Samuel L. Jackson is playing Nick Fury. Is that right? That's weird but I guess he could pull it off if he could do more than play a parody of himself like he's been doing for a while.

Well, seeing as the Ultimate Nick Fury is obviously him, sounds OK to me.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Well, seeing as the Ultimate Nick Fury is obviously him, sounds OK to me.

Correct, in fact, SLJ signed off on the Ultimate Nick Fury design before Marvel went ahead with it.

[HBox]

I am not familiar with Ultimate Nick Fury. I shall find out about this.

EDIT: OK, wow, I just saw a picture of him. That's like copyright infringement or something.

[TheMojoPin]

While there are obviously a bunch of "classic" characters and story aspects obviously still in place, Stark himself definitely seems more in the mold of the Ultimate Iron Man version, so I think they're adding in a lot of that version of the character, Ultimate Nick Fury included.

Don't tell Jeff, though. He'll probably implode.

[MobCounty]

Woot! Ironman ftw!

He was my favorite as a kid.

[Reephdweller]

Well, seeing as the Ultimate Nick Fury is obviously him, sounds OK to me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/UltimateNickFury.jpg

[AKA]

Dang...video is gone.

Iron Man is my favorite - every issue from 1-250 of the original run, plus every Tales of Suspence. Trying now to fill in the years i drifted away. This is the movie I am most concerned about, because it can be done SO wrong.

While there are a lot of clunker adaptations out there recently (Fantastic Four, Hulk, Daredevil, Catwoman, Elektra, Punisher), Marvel's two main franchises (X-Men and Spiderman) have given me a lot of entertainment - even if both faltered with their respective Part 3's, imo; over at DC, the reboot Batman has been a kick, and while I may be in the minority, I really dug what they tried to do with the last Superman.

[MadMatt]

Found the clip on another site - and it's still up! Enjoy! (http://chuckiedreyfus.com/2007/07/30/iron-man-intro-clip-comic-con-2007-footage/)

If you haven't checked it out, do so now before it disappears again. I think it looks really promising.

EDIT: It may be a little more shaky than the youtube version, but it also might be the same clip. At least you get to check it out.

[furie]

Out of curiosity, what did you think the 2nd X-Men movie got wrong? I'm not saying you have to go along with it, but it's generally considered one of the better comic book flicks out there, and even better than the first one.

And what did you think of Batman Begins?

As for the rest, well, I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm the only person that really liked The Hulk and Superman Returns.

You know what, I forgot about hulk. I did like that one.
Batban begins was good, i was just sticking to the rash of marvel movies for this discussion.

as for X2, they ripped "God Loves, Man Kills" apart, then shit on it.
there were elements of it that were good. Nightcrawler for example. but overall, nope, i didn't like it.

[TheMojoPin]

You know what, I forgot about hulk. I did like that one.
Batban begins was good, i was just sticking to the rash of marvel movies for this discussion.

as for X2, they ripped "God Loves, Man Kills" apart, then shit on it.
there were elements of it that were good. Nightcrawler for example. but overall, nope, i didn't like it.

Interesting. GLMK was the obvious source, but I thought they did a good job with it. I don't think the pseudo-religious stuff would have worked. I thought Bryan Cox was great as Stryker.

[Grendel_Kahn]

as far as marvel goes:
The first X-men was the closest i've seen thus far. all the other x-men were too far off base, fantastic four (both of them) were worthless. the spidermans while entertaining were not all that great.

i could go on and on...

... and you would be wrong. The second X-Men movie hit all the right notes and followed the hum and flow of the comic pretty close ( yes magnus did actually teach in the school). I really enjoed The Hulk. I thought it was a nice deviation from the regular rockem sockem superhero movies. A welcome departure at that. And while I think you are not hard enough on the abysmal FF movies I can't see how SPIDER MAN 1 and 2 could be improved. I'm not bashing I just don't really see the valid criticism here.

[celery]

Iron Man dont look half bad, Downey Jr looks like a lot of fun in the part of Stark

then followed by The Dark Knight, should be a good summer 2008

Don't forget about Indy 4 on Memorial Day.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I can't wait. Downey is going to be amazing. The suits look like they jumped right outta the pages. This looks like it's going to be Marvel's next big franchise.

[TheMojoPin]

Great avatar, Grendel.

[donnie_darko]

the footage is awesome, iron man has been a lot more interesting since civil war, though i know none of those elements will be in the movie.

but that scene with the jets looks like it was taken right from hypervelocity.

i think this will be as good as batman begins, which i've grown to love even more since reading cataclysm/dark victory/long halloween/etc.

Still have to put the newest daredevil's right up near the top though, even the kevin smith ones weren't too horrible.

[TheMojoPin]

Still have to put the newest daredevil's right up near the top though, even the kevin smith ones weren't too horrible.

Are you talking the latest Daredevil comic book series? Damn right you put that up there. Bendis' run was incredible and Brubaker has only made it better. It's been one of the best ongoing series for years now.

The Smith part of it started out OK for me, but really fell apart...Mysterio? Really? And Bullseye kills someone close to DD, AGAIN. Yawn.

[donnie_darko]

yeah, that's them

i've never understood why people are so anal with comic book movies, there are so many storylines in regular comics why not give a movie the same leeway?

hell, try to read batman, there's like 9 different series going on, same as with all the world war hulk tie ins...crazy.

[TheMojoPin]

yeah, that's them

i've never understood why people are so anal with comic book movies, there are so many storylines in regular comics why not give a movie the same leeway?

Man, I am with you all the way. People act like every aspect of these things are gospel, down to the tiniest detail. I remember people seemingly frothing at the mouth that Affleck was casted as Daredevil simply because he didn't have red hair. Now, yes, there are plenty of reasons to take issue with Affleck in that role, but come on, who cares about his freakin' hair color? I even heard similar gripes about Michael Caine as Alfred in the new Batman movies because he wasn't rail-thin and didn't have a tiny moustache. Yeah, getting one of the greatest living actors is a stupid idea because doesn't look like a walking pencil with a Jon Waters moustache.

[feralBoy]

Man, I am with you all the way. People act like every aspect of these things are gospel, down to the tiniest detail.

I don't think this attitude is just with comics. People were all in a tizzy about james bond being blonde. Like, who gives a shit. It was probably one of the best bond movies ever.

Same shit with LOTR. People will get out of control over every little aspect of that movie. Although I do think it's horseshit, that the witchking destroyed gandalfs staff in the movie.

Maybe it's because, you are so used to something being one way, when you are introduced to dissonant ideas, it makes the movie less enjoyable, or, it's just people's way of acting superior. "I read the book/comic 12 times, you didn't. You can't possibly understand."

[donnie_darko]

well, i have a lot of faith in iron man, and Hulk V2.0

and possibly far too high of hopes for dark knight.

after spiderman 3 i think things can only improve..

[JustJon]

I have a friend who is an obsessive Spider-man fan. He will go on for hours talking about Spidey. But he could not handle it when they announced movie Spidey would have the organic web shooters and complained incessantly about it. He completely nit picks the movies and all the little details that are different between the comics and the movies.

I'm a 20 year X-Men fan. I hated the third movie because it sucked, and not because of anything relating to the comics.

[TheMojoPin]

I have a friend who is an obsessive Spider-man fan. He will go on for hours talking about Spidey. But he could not handle it when they announced movie Spidey would have the organic web shooters and complained incessantly about it. He completely nit picks the movies and all the little details that are different between the comics and the movies.

I'm a 20 year X-Men fan. I hated the third movie because it sucked, and not because of anything relating to the comics.

I thought the organic web shooters were a much better idea. I loved it when they first showed up in with Spider-Man 2099 and I preferred them in the movies. I loved the character growing up because his life was such a struggle despite his powers, yet he's brilliant enough to create this adhesive and delivery system that would make him millions at the very least? I like the idea of Peter being pretty smart on the science end of things, but something like the webshooters puts him too far on the side of "scary smart genius" to really buy that he would always have money troubles and the like. Maybe if he and Mr. Fantastic had worked together to develop the things, OK, fine...but on his own? He'd be stinking rich if he could invent those when he was 15!

Besides, having organic web powers is really the only power that actually makes him like a spider. Crawling up walls, being strong and having a "danger sense" are all things that could be attributed to a number of insects. Organic webshooters actually makes him like a human spider.

[EliSnow]

I thought the organic web shooters were a much better idea. I loved it when they first showed up in with Spider-Man 2099 and I preferred them in the movies. I loved the character growing up because his life was such a struggle despite his powers, yet he's brilliant enough to create this adhesive and delivery system that would make him millions at the very least? I like the idea of Peter being pretty smart on the science end of things, but something like the webshooters puts him too far on the side of "scary smart genius" to really buy that he would always have money troubles and the like. Maybe if he and Mr. Fantastic had worked together to develop the things, OK, fine...but on his own? He'd be stinking rich if he could invent those when he was 15!


Wasn't there a story at some point that explained that he couldn't make money off of the adhesive because it only lasted an hour?

It's a bullshit explanation -- post-its prove that -- but they tried to address it.

[TheMojoPin]

Wasn't there a story at some point that explained that he couldn't make money off of the adhesive because it only lasted an hour?

It's a bullshit explanation -- post-its prove that -- but they tried to address it.

I remeber seeing that he actually designed to dissolve after an hour so that people he webbed up wouldn't be stuck in it for too long or removed with injury.

Hell, even if it did just dissolve on its own, as strong as it's been shown to be, he'd still make a bank off of it.

[JustJon]

An adhesive that is strong enough to hold a moving truck and only lasts an hour? And only a high school student could come up with it? He'd be rich as Reed Richards.

[EliSnow]

I remeber seeing that he actually designed to dissolve after an hour so that people he webbed up wouldn't be stuck in it for too long or removed with injury.

Hell, even if it did just dissolve on its own, as strong as it's been shown to be, he'd still make a bank off of it.

I'm not certain of the whole thing, but I do agree, he'd still be rich even with the limitations of the adhesive.

[donnie_darko]

i bet next someone will mention how the original megatron somehow shrunk into a gun......

[TheMojoPin]

i bet next someone will mention how the original megatron somehow shrunk into a gun......

Uhhhhhhhh...what?

[buzzard]

I tried...it died thanks anyway though.

[cougarjake13]

Out of curiosity, what did you think the 2nd X-Men movie got wrong? I'm not saying you have to go along with it, but it's generally considered one of the better comic book flicks out there, and even better than the first one.

And what did you think of Batman Begins?

As for the rest, well, I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm the only person that really liked The Hulk and Superman Returns.

the hulk was ok but not great, anything with jen connelly is good in my book

but i really liked supes returns, not so much the he might be your kid angle but the rest of the movie was good

[donnie_darko]

you know, matter displacement
megatron was a giant robot
but when he transformed he would magically fit into another deceptacon's hand.

there have been theories and debates about this mass displacement for years..

BACK TO IRON MAN

[weezcase]

the trailer was great while it lasted, though I don't like their portrayal of Tony Stark. I know he is kinda a playboy and everything, and the shit that happens too him supposedly turns his life around, but how are they gonna make the ass that he is in the begining turn into the noble Iron Man, it just doesn't make sense to me

and also, doesn't this movie take place in the present? why is the suit like one of those aliens from the early science fiction movies, they should have at least gone with the red and yellow, for as technologically savvy as he is supposed to be, that suit blew.

note: upon further research, some concept art i have seen suggests an updated suit later on in the flick.

[TheMojoPin]

the trailer was great while it lasted, though I don't like their portrayal of Tony Stark. I know he is kinda a playboy and everything, and the shit that happens too him supposedly turns his life around, but how are they gonna make the ass that he is in the begining turn into the noble Iron Man, it just doesn't make sense to me

and also, doesn't this movie take place in the present? why is the suit like one of those aliens from the early science fiction movies, they should have at least gone with the red and yellow, for as technologically savvy as he is supposed to be, that suit blew.

note: upon further research, some concept art i have seen suggests an updated suit later on in the flick.

Did you not watch the entire clip? At the end they show him flying with a streamlined red and yellow version. There's been promo shots of that armor for a while now.

The photo on the left is what he ultimately wears in the movie:

http://images.tomshardware.com/2007/05/04/boxing_comics/ironmansuits.jpg

The clunky suit is as big and awkward as it is because he makes it on the fly in a war zone with what he has around him, desperate to save his life. Every version of his origin up until the most recent one starts him out with the big suit out of necessity.

And check out the Ultiate versions of the character. Downey's version of Stark are perfect and the character is very much redeemable. If anything, it makes him moreso. Don't we want a character arc where we actually see someone going from "ass" to "hero?" What fun is going from "pretty good" to "even gooder?"

[JustJon]

If anyone knows a place where I can see the trailer, hit me up. I want to see it and by the time I tried to look, it was off youtube.

[EliSnow]

the trailer was great while it lasted, though I don't like their portrayal of Tony Stark. I know he is kinda a playboy and everything, and the shit that happens too him supposedly turns his life around, but how are they gonna make the ass that he is in the begining turn into the noble Iron Man, it just doesn't make sense to me



First, I don't know if I've ever thought of Iron Man as noble. He's a hero, yes, but he's always been protrayed as a womanizer and an alcoholic. Second, have you read the Ultimates? Iron Man clearly aint't noble there.

Also with regard to the suit, read the rest of this thread, we have a picture of the armor he'll be wearing.

[TheMojoPin]

First, I don't know if I've ever thought of Iron Man as noble. He's a hero, yes, but he's always been protrayed as a womanizer and an alcoholic. Second, have you read the Ultimates? Iron Man clearly aint't noble there.

Also with regard to the suit, read the rest of this thread, we have a picture of the armor he'll be wearing.

I think the Ultimate version of Stark is still "noble," he's just a LOT more indulgent and blunt because of his medical condition. He still wants to do the right thing and typically does. Hell, he was the one that was closest to believing Thor for the longest time.

[EliSnow]

I think the Ultimate version of Stark is still "noble," he's just a LOT more indulgent and blunt because of his medical condition. He still wants to do the right thing and typically does. Hell, he was the one that was closest to believing Thor for the longest time.

I still don't think he's noble though. He's too flawed of a character to be noble. At the same time, I don't think there are many "noble" superheroes. Superman and Captain America yes. Most superheroes may have noble qualities, but as a sum, I think few are very noble all around.

[TheMojoPin]

I still don't think he's noble though. He's too flawed of a character to be noble. At the same time, I don't think there are many "noble" superheroes. Superman and Captain America yes. Most superheroes may have noble qualities, but as a sum, I think few are very noble all around.

I think we're just arguing semantics at this point. To me, "noble" is just a term you can toss out in terms of someone who more often than not does the right thing and works for the greater good. I think the Ultimate Iron Man does that...he's just often an arrogant dick when he does. I don't look at a noble character as having to be perfect or nearly perfect.

I'm not trying to be a douche by busting out the dictionary, but I really don't see how the term is really applicable as you seem to be making it out to be...if anything, a lot of it fits the Ultimate Stark to a tee:

1 a : possessing outstanding qualities : ILLUSTRIOUS b : FAMOUS, NOTABLE <noble deeds>
2 : of high birth or exalted rank : ARISTOCRATIC
3 a : possessing very high or excellent qualities or properties <noble wine> b : very good or excellent
4 : grand or impressive especially in appearance <noble edifice>
5 : possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals : LOFTY <a noble ambition>

[PhishHead]

I think we're just arguing semantics at this point. To me, "noble" is just a term you can toss out in terms of someone who more often than not does the right thing and works for the greater good. I think the Ultimate Iron Man does that...he's just often an arrogant dick when he does. I don't look at a noble character as having to be perfect or nearly perfect.

I'm not trying to be a douche by busting out the dictionary, but I really don't see how the term is really applicable as you seem to be making it out to be...if anything, a lot of it fits the Ultimate Stark to a tee:

1 a : possessing outstanding qualities : ILLUSTRIOUS b : FAMOUS, NOTABLE <noble deeds>
2 : of high birth or exalted rank : ARISTOCRATIC
3 a : possessing very high or excellent qualities or properties <noble wine> b : very good or excellent
4 : grand or impressive especially in appearance <noble edifice>
5 : possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals : LOFTY <a noble ambition>

if its not from the OED i do not accept it! :lol:

[EliSnow]

I think we're just arguing semantics at this point. To me, "noble" is just a term you can toss out in terms of someone who more often than not does the right thing and works for the greater good. I think the Ultimate Iron Man does that...he's just often an arrogant dick when he does. I don't look at a noble character as having to be perfect or nearly perfect.

I'm not trying to be a douche by busting out the dictionary, but I really don't see how the term is really applicable as you seem to be making it out to be...if anything, a lot of it fits the Ultimate Stark to a tee:

1 a : possessing outstanding qualities : ILLUSTRIOUS b : FAMOUS, NOTABLE <noble deeds>
2 : of high birth or exalted rank : ARISTOCRATIC
3 a : possessing very high or excellent qualities or properties <noble wine> b : very good or excellent
4 : grand or impressive especially in appearance <noble edifice>
5 : possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals : LOFTY <a noble ambition>

It's all semantics, true. For #1, while Ultimate Stark has a couple outstanding qualities, I think he has more non-outstanding qualities than outstanding. That's why I don't think he's noble.

Again, it's my thing I know, and that he can easily be argued to be noble.

[TheMojoPin]

It's all semantics, true. For #1, while Ultimate Stark has a couple outstanding qualities, I think he has more non-outstanding qualities than outstanding. That's why I don't think he's noble.

Again, it's my thing I know, and that he can easily be argued to be noble.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm honestly curious...what do you think weighs him down?

[weezcase]

It's all semantics, true. For #1, while Ultimate Stark has a couple outstanding qualities, I think he has more non-outstanding qualities than outstanding. That's why I don't think he's noble.

Again, it's my thing I know, and that he can easily be argued to be noble.

I haven't read Ultimate Iron Man, though I have read Ultimate X-men and I while some of the new takes on the characters are interesting, I don't think you can call them literal interpretations of the original works.

Also, even if Tony Stark is a dick in the Ultimates books, do you really think he would act as the movie portrays him? Would he, as the Iron Man we all know, be in the singular business of creating new technologies for war? I don't think so.

The movie isn't "Ultimate Iron Man" it's just Iron Man and while it may not be quite as exciting as asshole Tony, the following is the actual way he becomes Iron Man:

"At the age of 21, he inherits his father's company, Stark Industries, after his parents are killed in a car accident. One of the first things Stark does is to buy out the company that made the faulty brakes on his parents' car and correct the mechanical problem. While on a visit to Vietnam to see how his new mini-transistors (not super deadly, who cares about civilian casualties missiles) could assist the American war effort, Stark is caught in a booby trap. Captured by a Vietnamese warlord named Wong Chu, and dying from a piece of shrapnel lodged in his heart from the booby trap, Stark is pressed into building weapons..." - from wikipedia

followed by the playboy and alcoholic statuses that he achieves

Lastly, have you guys read Civil War? Agree or Disagree with his stance on the Super Hero Registration act, it is arguable that he and Captain America, are or were some of the most noble characters in the marvel universe.

[TheMojoPin]

I haven't read Ultimate Iron Man, though I have read Ultimate X-men and I while some of the new takes on the characters are interesting, I don't think you can call them literal interpretations of the original works.

Also, even if Tony Stark is a dick in the Ultimates books, do you really think he would act as the movie portrays him? Would he, as the Iron Man we all know, be in the singular business of creating new technologies for war? I don't think so.

The movie isn't "Ultimate Iron Man" it's just Iron Man and while it may not be quite as exciting as asshole Tony, the following is the actual way he becomes Iron Man:

"At the age of 21, he inherits his father's company, Stark Industries, after his parents are killed in a car accident. One of the first things Stark does is to buy out the company that made the faulty brakes on his parents' car and correct the mechanical problem. While on a visit to Vietnam to see how his new mini-transistors (not super deadly, who cares about civilian casualties missiles) could assist the American war effort, Stark is caught in a booby trap. Captured by a Vietnamese warlord named Wong Chu, and dying from a piece of shrapnel lodged in his heart from the booby trap, Stark is pressed into building weapons..." - from wikipedia

The idea that Stark's company made much of its money supplying munitions to the US government and also to SHIELD is something that's been around since the very beginning. Very early on they have him making the decision to stop making weapons for the government based on his own experiences and what he's seen, and then in the 70's he even stops supplying SHIELD with weapons. Stan Lee has talked several times about he created the character's origin very much with the idea of the irony of a man who has made much of his money making weapons and then he himself being mortally wounded in combat and then having to use his technology for life instead of death. While Stark as a weapons mogul might not have been explicit in the very beginning, it was a key issue by his stories in the early 70's, so the idea is hardly new and it's been something that many writers have explored and emphasized over the decades. A key difference in the Stark before the suit and the Stark after is nothing new.

[furie]

... and you would be wrong. The second X-Men movie hit all the right notes and followed the hum and flow of the comic pretty close ( yes magnus did actually teach in the school). I really enjoed The Hulk. I thought it was a nice deviation from the regular rockem sockem superhero movies. A welcome departure at that. And while I think you are not hard enough on the abysmal FF movies I can't see how SPIDER MAN 1 and 2 could be improved. I'm not bashing I just don't really see the valid criticism here.

Spiderman 1 could have been improved by not having the green goblin in a power ranger suit and done in cgi. 2 could have been improved by not having doc oc's arms "talking" to him like some twisted mumenchance.

[donnie_darko]

i never found iron man all the interesting until civil war, i've tried to read some of the older stuff, they just don't keep my interest.

but i love some of the newer stuff, the drawing is a lot better as well.

the extremis stuff is cool too...


and speaking of noble who's more noble then Dare Devil?
To the point of annoyance really.

i wish venom would've gotten a hold of old matt murdock.

[EliSnow]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm honestly curious...what do you think weighs him down?

I think, given his upbringing, he's selfish and very arrogant. Now obviously, he's selfess in willing to risk his life, but I think, and the books started hinting at it, when I stopped reading his individual books, that him getting into the Iron Man suit, may have been more about his addiction than a selfless need to help.

I mean, unlike a lot of other heroes, does he really need to be in the Iron Man suit to really help people? Someone else could wear the suit, and then he could spend his time using his intelligence to come up with inventions and things that help masses of people, with hunger, poverty, etc.

This line of thought was something that came out of the Starman books. At one point, Jack Knight told his father that he would become Starman, only if his father would get back into the labs, because he squandered his talents making cosmic rods and fighting silly supervillains when he should have been creating things that really help humanity.

I think the Iron Man books have made somewhat similar hints about Iron Man doing the same (I thnk the Extremis storyline did), and that a huge part of the reason he's doing what he is doing is for the rush.

And I think that all of the "bad" qualities Ultimate Stark has, the "616" Stark has those as well, but not as drastic and he kind of grown over the years, but their still there.

Anyway, just my opinion. And you're right to correct weezcase. Stark was in the munitions business before his experiences got him to stop it.

[EliSnow]

Lastly, have you guys read Civil War? Agree or Disagree with his stance on the Super Hero Registration act, it is arguable that he and Captain America, are or were some of the most noble characters in the marvel universe.

Putting aside whether Captain America is noble right now in light of Civil War, and whether the Registration Act was proper, I challenge anyone to argue that Iron Man's actions surrounding Civil War, were "noble."

I'll try to keep this brief, but Stark's actions pretty much followed the axiom, "the ends justify the means," an ignoble axiom if ever one existed. Indeed, many of his actions could have been used by Doctor Doom or Magneto, and are the main reason that, right now, people are betting that Stark is one of the Skrulls who have infiltrated Earth.

Consider the following (in no particular order):

Cloning Thor - In the real world, cloning is banned in the United States because it is unethical. In the comics world, I think most instances of cloning have been done by villains or misguided scientists (Lex Luthor, the Jackal). And yet, Stark (and others) clone one of their friends and allies to make a weapon for their side.

Using Murderers/Villains - Stark's side, and as current head of SHIELD he himself, have used murderers like Venom, Bulleye, Deathstrike, and others to fight his friends.

Engaging In Unconstitutional Imprisonment - Putting aside whether the Registration Act itself was unconstitional, the imprisonment of superheroes in the Negative Zone without providing representation or due process is a violation of the Constitution. I've seen his arguments why it is necessary to take these actions, but consider this. The same reasoning has existed for years with regard to supervillains, yet no one ever tried to pass an amendment to the Constitution to make such an exception, or even to build such a prison. It was only until a war with his friends went down that he took this step.

Betraying His Friends - Civil War Frontline and the Confession established that Stark saw the reasons for the Registration Act and the War coming long before it happened. From there, Stark took actions to try to do the right thing. But, aside from Peter Parker, Stark never discussed this stuff with friends like Cap, who he had to know would be his main opponent, to try to accomplish the same goals without the war. Yet, in his arrogance, Iron Man rejected turning to one of his friends and main allies because he "knew" how Cap would be. In a number of ways, with the reasons, Stark resembled Ozymandius from Watchmen. He may not have killed millions in New York, but the way he planned things and essentially engineered things by himself or with the Illuminati, are very similar to how Ozymandus operated.

I think these are most of the top reasons why Stark's actions surrounding Civil War demonstrate a huge lack of nobility. Were these actions necessary? Maybe. But that does not make them noble. And maybe you can't be noble in war. For instance, dropping the atomic bombs on Japan arguably was necessary to end WWII, but it sure wasn't noble. Regardless, I don't think I could ever be persuaded that, considering Civil War, Stark was noble.

[weezcase]

EliSnow, you make some great arguments, you obviously have more Iron Man knowledge than I do, but I still think Robert Downy Jr.'s portrayal of Tony Stark is over the top and will ultimately hurt the film.

With the civil war stuff, I can see your point, but if you look at if from Stark's prospective, I do think he thinks he is doing the right thing, even if he is portrayed as the villain in the whole arc. He may see himself and his actions, not to mention all the other heroes that are working with him like Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the others, as the only way to keep the situation from blowing up even larger and turning are super powered people into criminals. At least what he is fighting for gives people some chance to continue to protect innocents without persecution.

This is why the civil war arc is so good. It has created issues in a totally fictional and ultimately fantastical world and made parallels to our own world and thus given us things to think about outside the marvelverse.

[TheMojoPin]

EliSnow, you make some great arguments, you obviously have more Iron Man knowledge than I do, but I still think Robert Downy Jr.'s portrayal of Tony Stark is over the top and will ultimately hurt the film.

With the civil war stuff, I can see your point, but if you look at if from Stark's prospective, I do think he thinks he is doing the right thing, even if he is portrayed as the villain in the whole arc. He may see himself and his actions, not to mention all the other heroes that are working with him like Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the others, as the only way to keep the situation from blowing up even larger and turning are super powered people into criminals. At least what he is fighting for gives people some chance to continue to protect innocents without persecution.

This is why the civil war arc is so good. It has created issues in a totally fictional and ultimately fantastical world and made parallels to our own world and thus given us things to think about outside the marvelverse.

I'll lay money that Marvel pussies out and reveals that Stark is a Skrull in their next big storyline.

And I really don't see how what we saw of Downey is over the top. He's playing an arrogant, brilliant. billionaire playboy. How is he supposed to act?

[EliSnow]

With the civil war stuff, I can see your point, but if you look at if from Stark's prospective, I do think he thinks he is doing the right thing, even if he is portrayed as the villain in the whole arc. He may see himself and his actions, not to mention all the other heroes that are working with him like Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the others, as the only way to keep the situation from blowing up even larger and turning are super powered people into criminals. At least what he is fighting for gives people some chance to continue to protect innocents without persecution.



See point re: ends justifying the means. No realistic villain ever thinks they are doing the wrong thing. Each of them from their prerspective thinks that what they are doing is the right thing or necesssary. Look at Magneto. All of his actions are justified in his perspective because he's trying to save his people

Again, whether the utlimate goal was right or not, I don't see any arguments as to why Stark's actions durnig Civil War were not noble.

[EliSnow]

I'll lay money that Marvel pussies out and reveals that Stark is a Skrull in their next big storyline.

I'd lay odds at 49.5% that this happens. With the Skrull storyline, Stark's the best bet to be a Skrull. Which is why I don't think he will be. But recognizing it's the most obvious choice, I'm laying these odds.

And I really don't see how what we saw of Downey is over the top. He's playing an arrogant, brilliant. billionaire playboy. How is he supposed to act?

Agreed. Weezcase, how long have you read Iron Man, of the main Marvel Universe. You admitted my knowledge is greater which leads me to believe that you haven't seen many stories about his origin, and may not realize how Stark was prior to getting injured and creating Iron Man.

[FUNKMAN]

i dug ironman a bunch when growing up

[Tall_James]

Lookee here...official trailer (http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/ironman/)

[EliSnow]

I saw (not heard - my mother-in-law's computer wasn't working) this footage for the first time last night, having not seen the Comic-con teaser, and it's clear that this movie is using the Warren Ellis Iron Man: Extremis retcon of Iron Man's origin, that Tony supplied weapons used in Afghanistan, and that's where he had his injury and got hurt.

Looked pretty good, but I need to get home to my HD laptop to watch this thing.

[TheMojoPin]

I saw (not heard - my mother-in-law's computer wasn't working) this footage for the first time last night, having not seen the Comic-con teaser, and it's clear that this movie is using the Warren Ellis Iron Man: Extremis retcon of Iron Man's origin, that Tony supplied weapons used in Afghanistan, and that's where he had his injury and got hurt.

Heh, I don't think they had much choice. If they stuck with the original origin, it was all Vietnam up the ying-yang.

[JustJon]

I saw the trailer during the Daily Show last night and this movie is looking bad ass. Of course, no showing of the full plot (which I like), but visually very cool.

[EliSnow]

and speaking of noble who's more noble then Dare Devil?
To the point of annoyance really.



Just saw this above, and had this to say. As Brian Michael Bendis has said, Frank Miller's Matt Murdock is an asshole. Take a read back and watch as he essentially destroys his girlfriend, makes her feel worthless (by calling her leadership of her company "incompetent"), and then proposes to her. He strips everything away from her so that the only thing she has is him.

Also, I can't call someone who appears in court seeking to uphold the law, and then go about violating it in many ways. Heck, he's lied in court so many times in order to protect his identity.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge Daredevil fan (see my avatar and many of my sigs), and his lying is probably necessary, but by doing so, I think he gave up nobility in several ways.

[EliSnow]

Heh, I don't think they had much choice. If they stuck with the original origin, it was all Vietnam up the ying-yang.

True, but other parts of the set-up remind me of Extremis.

[Freitag]

Lookee here...official trailer (http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/ironman/)

Is it just me, or does Iron Man flying sound like Cylon Raider?

[Tall_James]

William Hurt confirms "Iron Man" and "Hulk" movie crossover. (http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1579965/20080119/story.jhtml)

I like this idea.

[cougarjake13]

William Hurt confirms "Iron Man" and "Hulk" movie crossover. (http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1579965/20080119/story.jhtml)

I like this idea.

sweet

and theres even a villan in this one

[cogsdoc]

Anyone see the Ironman preview that was attached to Cloverfield? It looked decent. Can't say I'm nearly as intrigued as I am by the new Batman

[cougarjake13]

Anyone see the Ironman preview that was attached to Cloverfield? It looked decent. Can't say I'm nearly as intrigued as I am by the new Batman

yeh i'm still more excited for the new batman, then prob hulk, then iron man