Fire Joe Torre?

[Bulldogcakes]

Yes or no.

He's been here 11 full years, a month into his 12th. April's over, tomorrows an off day. They are 6.5 back of the Red Sox, in last place in the AL East behind the Devil Rays. What do you think George should do?

[sailor]

no

[Don Stugots]

get rid of them all and keep Jeter, Cano, Wang, Phillips, Melky and Rivera.

[FezPaul]

Sure, why not?

[BoondockSaint]

Hell no! I love the way he's managing. Give him an extension.

[Bulldogcakes]

I vote yes, but in the hope they hire Joe Girardi.
I'd rather have Torre than Don Mattingly, who I dont believe is ready. If they hire Don Mattingly they might as well just keep Joe. I think Mattingly is Torre-lite.
If they do hire Mattingly though, I'll give him a fair look. But Girardi is so much more qualified its not worth discussing.

[Bulldogcakes]

Hell no! I love the way he's managing. Give him an extension.

Exactly. Boonie's a Met fan.

[mikeyboy]

I love the smell of Yankee panic.

[Bulldogcakes]

I love the smell of Yankee panic.

http://www.tommym1080.com/journal/apocalypse_38.jpg

It smells like. . . .VICTORY!

[Kevin]

I love the smell of Yankee panic.

How is that Chris Benson deal working out for you Mikey??



And You guys already know my answer...

[BoondockSaint]

If you fire Torre and hire Girardi, what do you do with Guidry and Mattingly?

[sailor]

i must say i was confused that there were only two options.

[Marc with a c]

suspend him for two weeks.

[ChimneyFish]

Get rid of him.
The guy's a bum.






































They should hire Buddy Ryan.

[HBox]

If you fire Torre and hire Girardi, what do you do with Guidry and Mattingly?

Mustache Parade!!!!!!!

[TheGameHHH]

I would only vote yes if I knew for certain Giradri was comming in. otherwise i vote no.

[epo]

So who is to blame for that pitching staff?

[TheGameHHH]

So who is to blame for that pitching staff?

brian cashman

[lleeder]

I say no. They could still go on a hundred fourty two game winning steak.

[K.C.]

I love how the fire Torre talk comes up every year now. I just saw a barrage of 'Is Torre on the hot seat?' articles today.

Them losing has very little to do with him...it's not a very good team because there's no pitching.

The Yanks are going to need to hit on all the following:
-Wang coming back 100% (and proving last year wasn't a fluke)
-Hughes becoming the right-handed Cole Hamels of baseball, this year.
-Mussina back 100% and being dependable.

If they get all those three, they'll get back in contention...but none are a lock by any means.

If they don't, their only hope is to sign Clemens, which could happen, but then again, they have to hope he's the same pitcher, too.

This is what happens when you don't invest in minor league pitching.

[Kevin]

I love how the fire Torre talk comes up every year now. I just saw a barrage of 'Is Torre on the hot seat?' articles today.

Them losing has very little to do with him...it's not a very good team because there's no pitching.

The Yanks are going to need to hit on all the following:
-Wang coming back 100% (and proving last year wasn't a fluke)
-Hughes becoming the right-handed Cole Hamels of baseball, this year.
-Mussina back 100% and being dependable.

If they get all those three, they'll get back in contention...but none are a lock by any means.

If they don't, their only hope is to sign Clemens, which could happen, but then again, they have to hope he's the same pitcher, too.

This is what happens when you don't invest in minor league pitching.

You obviously have not been watchin Yankee games, or ready Yankee threads much..

[K.C.]

[B]

You obviously have not been watchin Yankee games, or ready Yankee threads much..

No, I live with Yankees fans and have seen plenty this season...not by choice, though.

It was a pretty spot on assessment. They have no pitching. People can bust Torre's balls about how he uses his bullpen, but when you get no innings from your starters, ANY bullpen will implode with an extensive workload.

You can never count this team out, but they're more on the ropes this season then they have been at any point in the recent past...and it has nothing to do with the record...teams start slow, it's the nature of baseball...their problem is they have some fatal flaws in the makeup of the team that I'm not sure how they fix.

That's on Cash and Stein, not Torre.

And for the record, I hate Joe Torre...but he shouldn't be fired.

[flavopop]

I don't know how Mr Torre can be blamed for the insane amount of injuries to our pitching staff so far this year. Lets just sit tight everyone, its only April 29th for petes sake. (sorry for the harsh language.) Lets see what happens if Mussina can come back, Ole Reliable Carl Pavano pitches in, and the Wanger gets his sinker back down where it needs to be. And the talk of Rivera losing is even funnier. He does this most Aprils. Than he proceeds not to allow a run until Augst 9th. Joe just needs a couple of breaks to go his way. Philly Hughes is gonna rock, you can just see it in his stuff. Not really solf on Tyler Clipboard yet and I know Im better than whatever a Darrle Rasner is.

The bats have been good enough to win most of the games this year. Lets just hope senile ole George isnt sitting in his Rascal down in Tampa with his finger on the fire button.

PATIENCE!!!!!

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Fire Torre

Fire Cashman

:king:

[TheMojoPin]

I vote yes, but in the hope they hire Joe Girardi.
I'd rather have Torre than Don Mattingly, who I dont believe is ready. If they hire Don Mattingly they might as well just keep Joe. I think Mattingly is Torre-lite.
If they do hire Mattingly though, I'll give him a fair look. But Girardi is so much more qualified its not worth discussing.

Wait, how do you know Girardi isn't "Torre-lite?" Didn't Girardi get his coaching/managing stripes under Torre's wing?

[sailor]

Wait, how do you know Girardi isn't "Torre-lite?" Didn't Girardi get his coaching/managing stripes under Torre's wing?

isn't girardi more arrogant. almost like billy martin lite?

[reeshy]

No.....he's Irish!!!!!!

[Bulldogcakes]

Wait, how do you know Girardi isn't "Torre-lite?" Didn't Girardi get his coaching/managing stripes under Torre's wing?

Because he's been working as an announcer for YES (the Yankee network) both before he was a manager and now again this year. He clearly has a more aggressive style than Torre does and displayed that as manager of the Marlins where he won Manager of the Year. Torre favors an easygoing approach because Torre's always worried about injuries, and not just during the regular season. Last year Torre pitched Jaret Wright in game 4 (which everyone knew was a death sentence if the Yanks were down) When asked "why not go with your ace Wang on short rest?" Torre said I'm not going to RISK HIS CAREER pitching him that way. That gives you an idea that Torre places other things above winning ballgames, EVEN PLAYOFF GAMES, no matter how small a risk they might be. Also, JUST TODAY Guidry had a heart to heart with Carl Pavano, telling him he has to pitch with some pain, everyone plays hurt. Pavano proceeded to have a bullpen session for the first time in weeks. Weeks in which the Yanks have had NOBODY to pitch for them, but Torre doesn't believe in questioning anyone's injuries, even when doctors tell him nothing is wrong. This kind of lack of accountability Torre practices is what drives Yankee fans nuts. It worked with the self starters on the late 96-2001 teams and the pepperpot Zim sitting next to him, but hasn't since. It's given the Yanks the worst collapse in their history and 2 lethargic first round exits since 2004. With the payroll the Yanks have, they have higher standards than that.

Girardi has shown a willingness to confront players who are acting against the team (Cabrera on the Marlins) he's also parted ways with Torre on a number of issues (like pitching inside, which Torre wont allow) and being more proactive sending runners. Torre lets everybody run on their own.
Mattingly, on the other hand, has ONLY worked under Torre as a coach and has never uttered a word of disagreement with anything he's done. Admittedly, he's worked for him the entire time and it wouldn't be appropriate, but what he has said has always been glowingly supportive of Torre. Furthermore, when interviewed before the season by the NY Times, Mattingly said "Being Torre's bench coach opened up a WHOLE NEW WORLD to him" having only looked at the game from the hitters side his whole life. One year of noticing that there are guys throwing the ball Don? Sounds to me like he's not ready.
Girardi, by contrast, was a career catcher and has prepared to be a manager since his playing days. If its Mattingly, I'll give him a fair look, but I suspect that he'll be very similar to Torre in style, and he already is in demeanor.

Girardi also asked Sammy Sosa to turn off his stupid fucking boom box (before Kerry Wood had the good sense to smash it to bits) and I will always love him like a brother for doing that.

[Dash77]

I love the way Yankee fans flip out after losing a few games, it's not Joe's fault the heart of your pitching staff went down, Fire Cashman and get some young talent in the organization again, and stop rebuilding with free agents.



LET'S GO METS

[Justice4all]

Sure, why not?


yea why not...and let's move the Yankees while we are at it. They had a good run right???
Sure....time to go to NJ now. Or better let's move them to CT. We can call them the Conn. Yankees.






























Are you people out of your fucking minds?

[Jake_Guiliani]

It's time to trade Jeter.

[Dan 'Hampton]

I always root for the Yanks to do the wrong thing so yeah FIRE HIM. I don't see how bringing in a new manager will change much? I do have a problem though with how he handled Pettite on Friday. If you know your pen is shot, and your pitchers are going to have to take it on the chin to help the Pen out then AP is that guy for you. The chances of him pulling a Chase Wright and checking into a nut hut are the slimmest of anyone on your staff right now. I loved how Igawa comes in and saves the day, two days after he became arguably the most expensive mop-up man in the majors.

[crb1]

No. The only complaint I've ever had about Torre is his overuse of the pen, and this year it's not really his fault. The starters have been a mixture of god awful and/or injured. They've used 9 different SPs in April alone, and only Pettitte has had more than one decent start. The manager doesn't make much difference when you're forced to pull guys from AA because there's no one else left to make a start.

A lot of the blame for their lack of solid SP should really be aimed at their player development and scouting departments. There are people that think they've traded away all their best talent, but most of the people they've traded the past few years never amounted to anything. The only SP I can think of that made it anywhere was Jake Westbrook, and I think he was actually acquired via trade (although I could be mistaken).

[Don Stugots]

I vote yes, but in the hope they hire Joe Girardi.
I'd rather have Torre than Don Mattingly, who I dont believe is ready. If they hire Don Mattingly they might as well just keep Joe. I think Mattingly is Torre-lite.
If they do hire Mattingly though, I'll give him a fair look. But Girardi is so much more qualified its not worth discussing.

while i agree with you on Girardi and Mattingly, do you really think it is a good idea to fire him May 1 as opposed to Nov. 1st? what kind of impact (not bob or sarah) would it have on the team? Also, if that was the plan then why not sign Lou to a "stand by" type deal, i.e YES Play by Play man, etc.

[sailor]

i think if you could cut the yankee haters from the poll it's pretty overwhelming that torre should stay.

[AKA]

I love the smell of Yankee panic.

Ahhh! It is sweet! Even if it only took 10 years, six months and 21 days...

[crb1]

I vote yes, but in the hope they hire Joe Girardi.
I'd rather have Torre than Don Mattingly, who I dont believe is ready. If they hire Don Mattingly they might as well just keep Joe. I think Mattingly is Torre-lite.
If they do hire Mattingly though, I'll give him a fair look. But Girardi is so much more qualified its not worth discussing.

How generous of you. It would be unfair for you to fire him if they don't play well from the moment he takes over.

[raulfd4]

it's april...what else is new?

wait til september. the thread will be "is joe torre the greatest manager of all time?"

[tupper65]

With 3/5 of the starting rotation on the DL...yeah, it's Torre's fault that they're below .500

Pleeeeeaaasse

[Gvac]

The answer to the Yankees' woes is obvious; not only must they fire Joe Torre, but also trade Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and Andy Pettitte.

This way they'll cut all ties to the previous World Series Championships and can start anew. Then they should name A Rod the Captain so he finally feels like it's his team.

[Don Stugots]

The answer to the Yankees' woes is obvious; not only must they fire Joe Torre, but also trade Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and Andy Pettitte.

This way they'll cut all ties to the previous World Series Championships and can start anew. Then they should name A Rod the Captain so he finally feels like it's his team.

could i be the bench coach? if so, can i get a whistle and a clipboard?

[cougarjake13]

could i be the bench coach? if so, can i get a whistle and a clipboard?

hell i'd just be happy being the bullpen catcher

[Bulldogcakes]

while i agree with you on Girardi and Mattingly, do you really think it is a good idea to fire him May 1 as opposed to Nov. 1st? what kind of impact (not bob or sarah) would it have on the team? Also, if that was the plan then why not sign Lou to a "stand by" type deal, i.e YES Play by Play man, etc.

I mostly agree, Stu. I would give Joe another month or so, since the injuries to the starters was mostly out of his control. I still think he babies them, and they could have come back sooner (They would on almost every other team in Baseball) but its not his fault they got hurt.

If Steinbrenner was to fire him on May 1, I wouldn't have a problem with it though. Its not just April, its 11 years plus this April. Lets not pretend he's Yogi Berra in his first year on the job. He was also almost fired last November, and I'm sure Steinbrenner told him he's on a short leash. 9-14 qualifies as a bad start, and if George thinks thats the last straw, fine by me.

[Bulldogcakes]

How generous of you. It would be unfair for you to fire him if they don't play well from the moment he takes over.

Go fuck yourself. You're happy with Torre? Fine. Half of Yankee fans are and half aren't. And dont give me that "impatient, impetuous" bullshit, he's been here 11 fucking years and has turned into Bobby Cox in the past 3 since Zim left. Only difference is Cox keeps winning his divisions with half the payroll Torre gets to work with.

[crb1]

Go fuck yourself. You're happy with Torre? Fine. Half of Yankee fans are and half aren't. And dont give me that "impatient, impetuous" bullshit, he's been here 11 fucking years and has turned into Bobby Cox in the past 3 since Zim left. Only difference is Cox keeps winning his divisions with half the payroll Torre gets to work with.

The half of Yankee fans that are spoiled asses like you that think the Yankees are entitled to win every year, and seem to have no clue that other teams are also very talented as well and the gap between a team that misses the playoffs and wins the World Series is incredibly small.

Torre isn't the one that couldn't draft or develop players. Torre's done an amazing job of dealing with the press and the overpaid headcases (A-Rod) and self absorbed jerks (Johnson, Sheffield, etc.). That's what makes him so valuable in a team covered by over a dozen papers, radio shows, and tv sports shows.

And stop giving Zimmer so much fucking credit for sitting on the bench. You might want to go back and check some numbers, because the last few years he was there they didn't do nearly as much running, hit and runs, squeeze plays, etc.

[K.C.]

The answer to all the Yankees' problems:

http://espn.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/bowa_030904.jpg

[BoondockSaint]

The answer to all the Yankees' problems:

http://espn.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/bowa_030904.jpg


He looks like he giving a Flair speech.

[Jujubees2]

I love how the Yankees are saying it's not Torre's fault they aren't winning because he puts the best players out there and they have to play. So, by that logic, I guess Torre shouldn't get any credit when the Yankees win.

[Kevin]

The answer to all the Yankees' problems:

http://espn.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/bowa_030904.jpg

He looks like he giving a Flair speech.


THIS PHILLIES TEAM STINKS AND YOUR NOT HELPING.. i AM LARRY BOWA!! THE NO TIME MANAGING WORLD CHAMPION.......WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[cougarjake13]

well at least bowa won a world series with the phillies as player so he has that going for him, which is nice

[Don Stugots]

The half of Yankee fans that are spoiled asses like you that think the Yankees are entitled to win every year, and seem to have no clue that other teams are also very talented as well and the gap between a team that misses the playoffs and wins the World Series is incredibly small.

Torre isn't the one that couldn't draft or develop players. Torre's done an amazing job of dealing with the press and the overpaid headcases (A-Rod) and self absorbed jerks (Johnson, Sheffield, etc.). That's what makes him so valuable in a team covered by over a dozen papers, radio shows, and tv sports shows.

And stop giving Zimmer so much fucking credit for sitting on the bench. You might want to go back and check some numbers, because the last few years he was there they didn't do nearly as much running, hit and runs, squeeze plays, etc.


no matter what team you root for, you want them to win it all. no matter what.

[Bossanova]

When is everyone going to learn. The answer is to fire Mattingly. They book ended World Championships around his playing career, and the first year he coached. The Yanks became the choak artist of all time blowing the 3-0 lead to Boston, and have gotten worse ever since. He is the biggest jinx ever. As long as he is under contract the Yankees will never win.

[Don Stugots]

When is everyone going to learn. The answer is to fire Mattingly. They book ended World Championships around his playing career, and the first year he coached. The Yanks became the choak artist of all time blowing the 3-0 lead to Boston, and have gotten worse ever since. He is the biggest jinx ever. As long as he is under contract the Yankees will never win.

i like this idea.

[Marc with a c]

torre is managing really well tonight

[Kevin]

When is everyone going to learn. The answer is to fire Mattingly. They book ended World Championships around his playing career, and the first year he coached. The Yanks became the choak artist of all time blowing the 3-0 lead to Boston, and have gotten worse ever since. He is the biggest jinx ever. As long as he is under contract the Yankees will never win.

have been saying this for the longest time, Boss... He started in 79.. The 2 title run ened.. Retired in 96.. Run Began.. He started as a minor league coach in 2001.. The year the run ended..

[BoondockSaint]

torre is managing really well tonight

Wait until he pulls Hughes while he's pitching a no hitter.

[Bossanova]

Wait until he pulls Hughes while he's pitching a no hitter.

But he may need to get Mariano some work.

[cougarjake13]

have been saying this for the longest time, Boss... He started in 79.. The 2 title run ened.. Retired in 96.. Run Began.. He started as a minor league coach in 2001.. The year the run ended..

man thats just crazy how the numbers work out like that

i'd just like to see him get fired and see if they start winning again, you may never see mattingly in a yankee uni ever again, not even on old timers day

[Bossanova]

man thats just crazy how the numbers work out like that

i'd just like to see him get fired and see if they start winning again, you may never see mattingly in a yankee uni ever again, not even on old timers day

Get rid of his monument too

[Bulldogcakes]

The half of Yankee fans that are spoiled asses like you that think the Yankees are entitled to win every year, and seem to have no clue that other teams are also very talented as well and the gap between a team that misses the playoffs and wins the World Series is incredibly small.

Torre isn't the one that couldn't draft or develop players. Torre's done an amazing job of dealing with the press and the overpaid headcases (A-Rod) and self absorbed jerks (Johnson, Sheffield, etc.). That's what makes him so valuable in a team covered by over a dozen papers, radio shows, and tv sports shows.

And stop giving Zimmer so much fucking credit for sitting on the bench. You might want to go back and check some numbers, because the last few years he was there they didn't do nearly as much running, hit and runs, squeeze plays, etc.

I've been watching this team since 1977, assface. You have no idea who you're talking to or what you're talking about. When did I EVER say anything about being ENTITLED to anything? NEVER. I guess you're one of the Yankee fans that feels morally superior because you feel guilty that George spends money to get players, which makes you both a fool and a hypocrite. They've operated that way SINCE THEY GOT BABE FUCKING RUTH (and half the rest of the team) from Frazee's financially troubled Bosox along with Red Ruffing a few years later. Maris was a salary dump from KC, Catfish and Reggie left the A's for $, Cecil Fielder, David Justice, Abreau, all salary dumps. And since when is it the Yanks don't "draft or develop players"? What roster are you looking at? HALF the current roster is from their farm system. If you look at the successful teams Buck and Gene Michael built of 96-2001 they had MORE free agents/trades than they do now. The current Yankee roster has MORE homegrown players than any of those did, including the great 1998 team. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

And Bobby Valentine was AWFUL with the press and did an excellent job with little talent in this town for seven years. Try again, son. Its not about the media, even though people IN the media keep telling you that it is. Thats the tail wagging the dog, the media has nothing to do with what goes on in the field. The media loves Torre and worries the next manager may not be as accessible, so they're trying to protect him. God forbid they have to work a little to get a story, or even worse, have to come up with an original idea to write one.

[crb1]

I've been watching this team since 1977, assface. You have no idea who you're talking to or what you're talking about. When did I EVER say anything about being ENTITLED to anything? NEVER. I guess you're one of the Yankee fans that feels morally superior because you feel guilty that George spends money to get players, which makes you both a fool and a hypocrite. They've operated that way SINCE THEY GOT BABE FUCKING RUTH (and half the rest of the team) from Frazee's financially troubled Bosox along with Red Ruffing a few years later. Maris was a salary dump from KC, Catfish and Reggie left the A's for $, Cecil Fielder, David Justice, Abreau, all salary dumps. And since when is it the Yanks don't "draft or develop players"? What roster are you looking at? HALF the current roster is from their farm system. If you look at the successful teams Buck and Gene Michael built of 96-2001 they had MORE free agents/trades than they do now. The current Yankee roster has MORE homegrown players than any of those did, including the great 1998 team. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

And Bobby Valentine was AWFUL with the press and did an excellent job with little talent in this town for seven years. Try again, son. Its not about the media, even though people IN the media keep telling you that it is. Thats the tail wagging the dog, the media has nothing to do with what goes on in the field. The media loves Torre and worries the next manager may not be as accessible, so they're trying to protect him. God forbid they have to work a little to get a story, or even worse, have to come up with an original idea to write one.

Who gives a shit how long you've watching the team??? What relevance does it have to this discussion? If anything, you should have years of experience watching the Yankees replace managers, and the effects (lack thereof) it's had on the team.

You're in favor of firing Torre because you think bringing in Girardi (or someone like him) will make a difference. It won't. No one can change the fact their pitching has been awful, injured, or both. What exactly is Girardi going to do? I haven't seen anything from this team I would call lazy. They are playing hard, just not well. And if you look at the numbers, they've actually been plain unlucky in their record.

Beyond their pitching, their biggest problem is their defense. But that hasn't been good for years. They have no arms in the outfield (Matsui seems to have totally lost his slightly above average, but accurate arm) and limited range in the infield.

When did I say I had a problem with the paying for FAs??? NEVER. Who the fuck doesn't have a lot of FA players on their roster? I have ZERO problem with that. I have a problem with them overpaying for old, past their prime players. If you want a Zimmer-esque team, this is NOT the route to go.

Go check the rosters...the Yankees had as many, or more, homegrown players then as they do now. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

Torre may be better with the press than Valentine, but Valentine is better for the reporters in some ways. When was the last time Torre said anything controversial or interesting? When was the last time he showed up in the dugout wearing a fake mustache? A guy like Valentine is a writer's dream.

After all this, I still can't see what you find beneficial in firing Torre. This team has had one shit break after another, and no manager can change that.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Torre Was Pissed Yesterday, he was taking his normal 7th inning Nap and Hughes had to get Hurt


:king:

[Krodos]

As a Boston fan living in New Jersey, I have to say this. Yankee fans go pyscho if thier are even on a 3 game losing streak. You can't fire Joe. The man brought you four championships in four years. Your team is loaded with injuries to the bullpen, and your closer is sucking (maybe you should of offered him a new contract right before the season started). You also have youth with inexperience and aging stars.


Also, this isn't cashman's fault either. If you're going to blame someone for this slide (also, it's only May), blame the guy responsible for going out and getting all these guys that in thier late 20's early 30s. That guy is is your owner. YOU BLAME BIG STIEN!


Allow me to explain.

1. You guys won those four championships with a couple of stars and role players (Wetland, Brocious, Sojo, Davis, O'neil, Duncan, Hays, Cone).

2. You didn't need an allstar team

3. Allstars + Egos = very little team chemistry

4. having a giant payroll doesn't mean you buy yourself a championship. Look at the teams that beat you in the playoffs (Marlins, Angels, Tigers, Diamondbacks)


Stienbrenner somehow forgets all this and creates a team with huge, immovable contracts and aging talent.


Therefore, you can't blame Joe for this. You blame the man responsible. If Stiennbrenner was the head of a company and did all this, he'd be ousted.

[led37zep]

I'm a Giants fan. I don't give a fuck what the Yankees do.

[Bulldogcakes]

Go check the rosters...the Yankees had as many, or more, homegrown players then as they do now. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.



After all this, I still can't see what you find beneficial in firing Torre. This team has had one shit break after another, and no manager can change that.

I already did check the rosters. Check the payroll lists on Baseball America. I dont post something until I fact check it.

And the entire point about Zim was that he balanced off Joe, who can put you to sleep. Torre was smart enough and mature enough to realize his shortcomings when he took the job in 96 which was why he brought Zim with him in the first place. He still has those shortcomings, and Zim's gone.

Do I think a new manager would make a big difference? No. Would it make some difference? Yes. Torre's propensity for only using relievers he "trusts" combined with his babying of pitchers has taken the bad situation of injuries to the starting rotation and made it worse. Now Proctor, Viscaino, Bruney and Henn lead the majors on appearances and are burned out in April. A more intelligent use of the bullpen (given the bad situation you're already in) would be to spread the heavy workload around, to keep everybody fresh. Even if it means losing a few games here and there. With what Torre did, the 4 guys he was using were spent while Farnsworth, Mo and Colter Bean got hardly any work. Thats just managing from your playbook, and not considering the situation at hand.
My biggest problem with Torre has been the way he's managed in the post season, but I'll leave that for another time.

And let me clarify my position on Joe. If I owned the team, I would give him another month (first week of June) to turn this around. But if George would have fired him on Monday I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[OGC]

Fire the guy.

Let him have some peaceful days away from the madness that is the New York Yankees.

[7fttall500+]

The answer is not to fire Torre! I repeat to those of you who weren't really paying attention. The answer is NOT to fire Torre! They just need a new pitching coach, when Mel was arround Joe did not have to worry about the pitchers and if you think back they didn't have as many problems with injuries or overuse of the bullpen.